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Question about "Legion", during the scene in the Golden Cup building, after he had been shot by the Recap probe, Coldstone yelled "Why did you bring me here only to attack me?!" Why did he say this, and who was he talking to?
I loved that bit where the recap shoots a gas grenade and it bounces off Coldstone's chest(and he glances down like, "Huh?") ;-)
He was just crying out to all those guards who were shooting at him. He said it because he had no memory of coming there himself. From his (Othello's) P.O.V. he'd awakened there to find these humans (and robots) attacking him. It was very upsetting.
Was Iago only after Desdemona? Did he just want a female, or Desdemona in particular? I ask because he didn't seem terribly interested in say, Demona.
He was obsessed with Desdemona.
Were there any plans to incorporate Frankenstein into the Gargoyles universe?
Yes. He's called Coldstone.
Why was Iago so bent on getting Desdemona as his mate? Is he just the type who won't take "no" for an answer or what?
And why was Desdemona crying in the first few scenes in "Legion"(where Goliath tries to comfort her?)
Othello's jealous streak.
This is going to sound amazingly retarded but are Coldstone and Broadway related? I ask this because the two have similar skin tones, the unique 'fanned' ears, and Coldstone's hair is white like Broadway's father, Hudson (assuming Hudson's hair has always been white). Hudson supposedly has a child from Goliath's generation, so that fits with Coldstone. Spurious evidence perhaps, but nothing ventured nothing gained. Feel free to hand me the dunce's cap. <:(
God, I need sleep.
They may be related -- they're from the same clan after all, but they aren't biological brothers if that's what you are asking.
Because this question hasn't been answered yet, I'd like to re-submit Jeff Lenihan's question:
"2)In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?"
Anubis refused. And he had good reasons, as the Emir realized after he became the Avatar. I never said that ghosts don't exist. Coldstone is still dead.
So, a pit-stop in Tibet for purposes unknown, combined with a run-in with Coldstone in the Himalayas.
1) Are these two unrealized stories indeed one in the same?
2) In the original conception of the idea, did Coldstone undergo any kind of change as a result of the story? In every other encounter with Coldstone, he was left changed in some manner.
3) Could the story be magically inserted into the canon series right now with no messed up continuity in regards to "Possessions"?
2. Not gonna say. But the story came in between his appearances in High Noon and Possessions.
3. Yes. It was designed that way.
Finding myself lost in that massive "Old Ask Greg Archive," I stumbled across a mention of a missing World Tour episode featuring Coldstone in the Himalayas. What would've happened there?
An entire story.
1.Is Coldsteel ability to heal limited to his tentacles or can he heal his entire body?
2.What about Coldfire? Can she heal was well?
1. I think the word we're looking for is "repair". The answer is yes, assuming no major system is damaged.
Hi Greg. First Post-G2K question, trying to catch up on your latest answers. (Hope you and the family had fun at MGM)
"Didn't we answer this at the con?"
Yes, but the question is left over from before the con. And you passed the question off to Thom, Greg G., and Vic, if that's what you mean by we.
"[And by the way, I'm no more a carpenter than a biologist.]"
Sorry, but now I have this vision of you shouting "Damn it Jim, I'm a storyteller, not a..."
Re: Gladiator and The Phantom Menace. If I remember right, the historical Commodius (sp) actually did go out and fight gladiators for fun, so it's not totally off the mark. (Of course, they'd played so fast and loose with historical accuracy by then anyway...) As for TPM, you didn't miss much.
Puck breaking the fourth wall. Coulda worked. Maybe a moment where he's sort of looking at the camera and talking to us by talking to himself.
And, so this'll have at least one question:
How much, if any, did Xanatos know about Iago's personality when he built Coldsteel? More on that in the next post.
Sorry, but now I have this vision of you shouting "Damn it Jim, I'm a storyteller, not a..."
That was the point.
As for Commodius, I knew that, and that would have been great, if the movie had depicted him that way in any way ever. But it never did.
More than you'd think. Coldstone broadcasts.
If Xanatos did know what Iago was like, was he
A. Being kinda irresponsible to give a psycho like that access to a state of the art killing machine without building in some kind of failsafe.
B. Hoping to use Coldsteel for his own ends later, *finally* getting a gargoyle who'd work for him. After all, Iago's Dark Ages alliance with the Archmage makes this a bit of a possibility.
Xanatos was never one not to throw caution to the wind. But keep in mind he always has a back-up plan and he did build the robot.
Would Coldsteel still try to get Coldfire to be his mate?
Yep. He's kinda a sicko.
Just read your Legion ramble...and I have to say this:
At the time when I first saw that Episode, I knew that Iago was trying to indicate that Goliath was betraying Othello with Desdemona, but I didn't understand why the credits listed the characters with such names. Boy was I naive.
A couple years later I was taking a Shakespeare class and read Othello. Can you imagine, about Act 2 somewhere we're reading it outloud and all of a sudden I say outloud: OH I GET IT. My friends thought I was insane. I had to give a quick explination for my outburst, which didn't help much to prove my sanity (none of them had watched Gargoyles).
Since reading the play Othello has become my favorite of the Shakespearian Tragedies (though I admit I have to read several more) And the Love "Pentagram" has become a delightful flavoring to the show.
I say Pentagram because I do believe that Demona would have been caught up in the whole mess. Especially given that Iago likens so well to the Shakespearian version. If he's going to ruin Goliath (and Othello as well) Then "In for a penny, in for a pound" Demona would have to go too. And probably the whole clan (including Hudson) probably would have been at Odds with Goliath thanks to Iago's whispering.
Which leads me to my first question:
1. Did the incident between Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Goliath occur before or after Goliath became leader to the clan? I ask because it strikes me that if after, Iago would not only try to win Desdemona, but Leadership as well.
2. Since Demona collected pieces of the shattered Iago to create Coldstone, we know he was banish from the clan. So what punishment was set upon Iago for causing such a clash between rookery brothers.
3. For that matter, would anyone have truely realized what Iago was doing, that he was responsible for it?
4. In City of Stone's flashback, we see Demona almost warning Othello and Desdemona about the upcoming attack. In one way, these two were used so that it wouldn't be just random gargs...But given the idea that Demona would have gotten tied up in the whole love scandal, it would seem Demona wouldn't exactly like Desdemona (even if the whole thing proved false; she's got trouble forgiving people) So why, in a character sense would Demona have gone to these two?
Well, I'm sure I had more questions along this topic, but I can't think of them after all that typing, so I'll let you get on with the other questions.
"So will I turn her virtue into pitch; and out of her own goodness make a net that shall emesh them all." -Iago (my fav quote from the play)
2. He was banished for a time.
4. Well, first off because they were there. Also, back then, Desdemona was the closest thing Demona had to a sister. Once everything was resolved there was less hostility there then you are imagining... however, perhaps all that history DID play some >small< role in why she DIDN'T warn them.
Two more questions about the Cold Trio:
Was Desdemona aware of the Weird Sister's possession of her, shall we say, soul?(when she split in three's)
And what was this "cause" they were talking about(i.e. Desdemona: "My love? Do we take up the cause?")? The Gargoyle Way?
Sorta. But more immediately, it was the threat that Iago was clearly presenting right then.
One last question. Is the relationship that the three original "Coldstone spirits" have with their new robotic bodies similar to the relationship (or magical ties, or whatever you want to call it) that Hakon had with the axe? Are they similarly bound to the living world only through their bodies? And does this connection now rely more on the magic that summoned them into Coldstone's body (which was done with human magic) or on the spell that transfered them to their new bodies (which was done with Alex's fairy magic). Where I'm going with this, as you might guess, has to do with the Coldtrio's access to Avalon, where human magic is forbidden. I must stop here before I say too much, but if you can, please discuss this possible complication.
The answer to your first question is yes.
The answer to the last is subject to interpretation. Which means anything is possible -- as long as the loophole exists.
You mentioned that Xanatos had collected the remains of the three gargoyles that eventually formed Coldstone. A few questions came to mind. 1a) Did Xanatos or Demona realize at the time that they were combining pieces from three different gargoyles? 1b) If the answer to 'a' is yes, was Demona aware of exactly which three they were putting together? 1c) Was she or Xanatos aware that three different souls would inhabit the body? 2) This may be a little gruesome, but you mentioned before that most of Coldstone's body was "Othello's", with only a hip or something from "Desdemona" and a similar piece from "Iago". Were those the only pieces of those gargoyles that could be recovered? 3a) Were these the only gargoyle "remains" that Xanatos found? 3b) If the answer to 'a' is no, what did Xanatos do with the other remains? 4) Considering Coldstone's behavior and tone of voice in "Reawakening", it's assumed that "Othello" is in control in that episode. Why didn't the other two personalities emerge? 5) Unlike the sleeping Manhattan gang, the "remains" around the castle clearly belonged to dead gargoyles. Why didn't Demona perform the Wind Ceremony for them?
1b. She knew she was getting "Othello", I'm not sure if she could identify the other two.
2. Yes, after all those years.
3b. Who said there are any other remains?
4. Correct. He was dominant. The virus began breaking down that dominance, thus releasing the other two.
5. Demona couldn't face the Massacre. I don't think she EVER went back.
I asked this before but seems to have gotten lost, so I decided to repost it:
1) What would the relationship between Iago and Demona have been like in the Dark Ages? After all Demona was the Archmages' apprentice, but Iago was allied with him, so would he look down on her? In HIGH NOON, he calls her 'sister', but thats because he doesn't know that it is her fault he is dead and that she is now an enemy of Goliath.
Also would he hate her, in Dark Ages, because she was in love with Goliath and was friends with Desdemona and Othello?
2) Did Goliath etc, learn of Demona's apprenticeship with The Archmage?
3) If the answer to (2) is yes, then how would Goliath react?
I'm curious about how Coldstone moves his cyborg parts:
Is there some kind of advanced circutry that attaches his brain to his arm/ anything that's not his flesh (or in this case, stone). Or is that a part of the sorcery?
I was wondering if Broadway was the best warrior/fighter of the trio from purely a skills POV? I say this because Iago was "disapointed in Brooklyn's fighting skills" in Possesion. Its also not hard to tell that Broadway is the strongest of the trio, which suggests that he would make the best fighter (whether or not its because of an unfair advantage he was born with). Was he possible spending more time training back in the pre-massecre (sp) days while Brook or Lex were off learning to read? Learning to read doesnt happen overnight. He must have been doing somthing during all that time, and I'm sure he didnt spend all of it eating. ;)
I wouldn't take Coldsteel's words too seriously. He was operating Brooklyn's body at the time. I think he was just making excuses.
Brooklyn, Broadway and Lex each have different fighting styles. They're all accomplished warriors. Broadway does have the advantage of bulk and strength, but I doubt he trained more than wanna-be-leader Brooklyn.
I'd like to ask your opinion on a ramble that I've written.
One of my all-time favorite episodes is POSSESSION. In POSSESSION, Broadway, Angela, and Brooklyn were vessels for the spirits of Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel. I have always believed that there were reasons for this.
As I see it, Broadway and Angela were possessed by the lovers, Coldstone and Coldfire for a reason. I always thought that it was a subtle way to hint that it would be they that became a couple themselves. Brooklyn was used by Coldsteel because he subconsciously possessed jealousy toward Broadway for his success with Angela that Coldsteel harbored for Coldstone about Coldfire. I was lead to believe that especially where Brooklyn/Coldsteel was going to carry the unconscious Angela/Coldfire away because of his jealous lust for her.
Those are merely my assumptions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It's a chicken and the egg thing.
Did the Coldtrio's unbound spirits sense something or cause something?
At any rate, behind the scenes, we certainly used it as a stepping stone to an eventual Broadway/Angela relationship.
I really do like this one--maybe just because I have an affinity for cyborgs. At any rate, I was quite glad that we got intro'd to a gargoyle who DID die in the massacre. Yeah, sure he was brought back, but mentally putting that scene in the multi-parter adds another dimension of tragedy to the massacre.
I can more than understand the problem with seeing Xanatos and Demona looking at a monitor one moment, then appearing in Times Square about 3 seconds later. At times like these, I do the only thing I can do: rationalize. I make-believe X and D were in some odd, high-tech, bus-like vehicle (mobile control unit, anyone). It's silly, but it works for me.
Another animation note--in addition to Hudson's sword--when Brooklyn tackles Demona they are below the top cables of the bridge, and before they hit the ground they fall onto and bounce off...the top cables of the bridge. Oh well, the confrontation is still too great for that little bit to ruin.
Oddly enough, I don't mind Elisa's little crack about the size of her car. I actually find it an amusing, sarcastic beat. And yeah, the scarf and gloves are nice.
And of course, there is an abundance of funny lines. In addition to the bit with "Bambi" and Xanatos' fulfillment of a life-long dream ("It's alive! ALIVE!!"), I just love Morgan's little response to Elisa's "There must be something we can do."
Morgan: "I don't think so. Unless you're packing a nuclear weapon." I can see why you keep bringing this guy back--he's a wonderful character.
Coldstone> I was glad Micheal Dorn did a voice on the show. I mean, just listen to the guy! Coldstone himself made for some memorable moments. I noticed that you guys didn't put the "underwater respirator" on him as the memo stipulated. What changed you guys' minds?
The look into Gargoyle culture here was also quite welcome. A nice touch that the gargoyles did not "officially" become crime-fighters until the end of the first season. Kind of more organic and unique than most series that just intro a group of non-human heroes and have them be crime-fighters more or less from day one. And the differences in opinion of the gargoylean proverb between the characters was a nice use of the ep's theme. Goliath's quandry here is quite compelling.
Finally, just one question dealing with the memo. You made mention of a Madame Serena. Who was she?
Re: Underwater respirator. We realized that Coldstone wasn't technically alive. He didn't need an underwater respirator, because he was living stone (or living organic substance that resembles stone) brought back to life. He requires a power source. Oxygen is only necessary for speech, and maybe not even that.
Re: Madame Serena. I'm not sure I remember. She was a character that appeared in the first draft of the outline Michael gave us. She was some kinda psychic or gypsey or witch (or all of the above). But she didn't, in my opinion, fit into this story. And I guess we all quickly forgot about her. The thing is I can't check. I have my notes on Michael's outline, but I didn't keep his outline, so I can't go back to see what exact role Michael had in mind for her. Guess, you'll have to ask him.
Are Coldstone and Coldfire Gabriel's parents? Gabe looks like Coldstone and I think he has Coldfire's weird wings. Was that intended?
Coldstone and Coldfire ARE Gabriels biological parents. They are also two of his rookery parents. Two of only five that survive into this century.
And yes, that's all intentional.
Are Goliath and Coldstone biological brothers or just rookery brothers?
There are never any biological brothers of the same generation. Cousins, sure. Brothers and sisters, never.
An additional little thought, inspired by your comparing Coldstone to the Frankenstein monster. As somebody who's read the original book by Mary Shelley, and quite liked it, I feel that while Coldstone certainly has a strong echo of the monster in him, as you've pointed out, I feel that Goliath does as well, although more in a contrast than in a similarity.
Like the monster (as portrayed by Mary Shelley in her book; alas for the way that Hollywood weakened the character by turning him into a mute, shuffling brute), Goliath is a noble being who appears threatening towards humans and is shunned and feared by so many humans whom he seeks to help. Also like the monster, Goliath is a thoughtful and eloquent being, and well-read with a taste for the classics (the Frankenstein monster reads Plutarch's Lives and Milton's "Paradise Lost", while Goliath reads Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky). The big difference is that the Frankenstein monster is all alone, with nobody to befriend him, and becomes embittered towards humanity thus, while Goliath has the clan and Elisa, which undoubtedly helps him. They're almost foils, in a sense. (Of course, Goliath also isn't an artificial creation, either, as the monster was). Just a little thought that had occurred to me.
I like that analysis. Very sweet.
By the way, it always blew me away that the VERY FIRST BOOK the Monster ever read in "FRANKENSTEIN" was Milton's Paradise Lost. I hadn't read FRANKENSTEIN until college, and also not until after I had read Paradise Lost. (Of course, I knew the basics of both stories long before I actually read the books.)
I couldn't imagine having to teach myself to read with PARADISE LOST. Not exactly FUN WITH DICK AND JANE or Doctor Seuss, you know?
Ah, at last the "Re-Awakening" ramble. It was well worth the wait, too.
One thought that I've recently had on Coldstone: I wonder if any of us, living in the end of the 20th century, can fully comprehend the horror that his cybernetic condition must have held for him when he was first "re-awakened" by Xanatos and Demona in this episode. For any of us, waking up and discovering that we'd been turned into a cyborg would certainly be a horrifying enough experience. But Coldstone's experience is all the worse, at least, IMHO, because of one simple factor: cybernetics are completely beyond the world-view of anybody born (or hatched, in this case) and raised in the 10th century. He wouldn't know what they were, beyond just some strange form of magic. All that he can know is that something utterly alien, beyond his comprehension, has become part of him. I thought that the episode did a good job of displaying his horrified response to his transformation (especially the part where he uses that blaster built into his arm for the first time and is staring at it in shock and horror).
I'd also spotted some of the parallels with "Awakening", including the bit about how Goliath pronounced "detective". And I certainly agree with you that, if "Gargoyles" had ended there, "Re-Awakening" would have given it a great series finale. (Of course, you got to do another 52 episodes, all the way up to "Hunter's Moon", an even better "might-have-been" series finale, but that's another story).
I also liked your pointing out about how the gargoyles' thoughts on protection, and its evolution into protecting Manhattan, were handled in this story.
A couple of minor parts that I particularly like in this episode:
1. The way that Xanatos glares at Demona when she introduces him to Coldstone as her servant.
2. The "explosions in Bambi" bit.
3. And the very resurrection of Coldstone, which is one of my favorite "special-effects" sequences in "Gargoyles".
(Sometimes knowing makes something MORE horrific.)
Ignorance, I would think, puts a ceiling on horror. Ramifications may add terror. Which is not to say that Coldstone wasn't thoroughly horrified. But like you said, to him it was just ghastly magic. If it happened to us, well, I'm not sure it wouldn't be worse.
One final "Re-Awakening"-related post. One thing that bothered me a bit about the episode is Coldstone's "Dawn came, and then oblivion" line. The reason why I find it troubling is that the "oblivion" part almost suggests that gargoyles don't have an afterlife, which I find disquieting. Admittedly, Coldstone's situation is a near-unique one, but still, the implications.... What are your thoughts on this one?
What happened, and what he remembers may be two different things. But I also had the Wind Ceremony in mind. See my notes on that.
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Written by Marty Isenberg & Robert N. Skir
I just watched "Legion" again. Time to Ramble.
From the memo I posted earlier this week, you'll see that the never used on screen names of Othello, Desdemona and Iago were my idea. But I've always wondered if that's the case. The outline that Marty and Bob wrote immediately prior to that memo had all the Othello elements very, very present in the story. All they didn't do was NAME the characters. I always wondered whether they and/or Michael had the Othello story specifically in mind, consciously or un-, and I just capitalized on it.
The Goldencup Bakery Building, which semi-secretly houses a defense department hi-tech research and development installation is modeled after the Silver Cup Bakery Building -- which actually exists in Brooklyn (as I recall). That Building was trashed in the original HIGHLANDER movie in the final battle between Connor and the Kragen (who was played by a pretty damned horrific Clancy Brown). Small world.
I was always worried that the whole Othello, Desdemona, Iago, Cassio (whoops, I mean Goliath) backstory was a bit vague in this episode. Did anyone have problems getting it?
I don't think I'd like to be one of those Goldencup Guards. Coldstone punches one of them out. That's gotta hoit. He just seems fairly unstoppable in that Xanatos-program controlled sequence. I like how that plays.
Matt says to Elisa: "You never let me drive." My wife's reaction: "Was that in homage to me?" My wife, you see, almost always drives when we're together. She gets carsick when anyone else drives. And I don't much care.
Speaking of Matt, we've got that line about him spending six months reading RECAP manuals to justify why a normal detective would be in charge of RECAP in the first place. Just trying to avoid either adding a superfluous character and/or making the situation seem artificial.
Another appearance of the Scarab Corp. Logo, even though Scarab is never mentioned by name. Oh, well...
Coldstone flees the Goldencup. Goliath and Lex pursue, and Coldstone attacks them. Then he immediately stops, when he sees it's Goliath. The problem I always had with that scene is that the lighting made it obvious that it was Goliath from moment one. (Not just to us, but to Coldstone.) If Goliath had been in shadows, it would have played better.
Minutes later Lex asks Goliath if it's wise to take Coldstone into their home: "He hasn't always been your friend." This was, theoretically, a reference not simply to the most recent attack, nor even only to the events of "Reawakening", but also a reference to the pre-Massacre backstory of the actually non-existent love triangle (or square or pentagram if you include Demona) that caused Goliath and Othello to fight way back when. Lex remembers those days too. Othello was always a bit of a hot-head.
I love Goliath's response: "Without trust there can be no clan." And I love that this is part of a Lex/Goliath exchange. It fits in perfectly with the message they taught each other in "Thrill of the Hunt". Gotta take some chances on occasion. Or else you'll always be alone. It's an anti-Demona mentality. Or rather a mentality that is strikingly un-Demona-esque.
From the moment Coldstone premiered in "Reawakening" I knew (that if we survived to a second season) we'd discover that he was created from three Gargoyles. Tried to work that conceptually into the design more, but we never quite achieved it. So basically that becomes something that the audience has to take on trust.
Which brings me to the title "Legion". It's a one-word title which usually is a tip-off that it's one of mine. I know it's a biblical reference. Some possessed guy with a demon/devil inside who goes by the name "Legion". But that's not actually where I got it. When I was a kid, I saw this tv movie based on Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN. It starred Michael Sarazan or Chris Sarandon. (I always used to mix those two guys up.) It was trying to present a more realistic believable version of the Frankenstein story. I was pretty young. And I don't remember too much about it. I do remember that I was supposed to be asleep -- past my bedtime in the days before my parents gave up and I began going to bed long after they were asleep. But instead of being asleep, I was watching it, in the dark, with the volume turned as far down as possible, me sitting right by the set, so I could flip it off if I heard my parents' door opening. (This was long before remote controls were common.) Anyway, the one scene that I really remember is a scene where they put the Monster under hypnosis. The voices of all the people who "donated" body parts begin to speak. And one of them quotes the "Legion" thing from the bible. But I didn't know that. That is I didn't know back then that he was quoting anyone or anything. It just seemed like a very powerful, poetic and humanly true statement. So it wasn't until college that I read that passage in the bible and realized where it was from. Can anyone cite the actual quote? I can't remember where exactly it's from, and I don't feel like searching right now.
Anyway, all this is relevant because Coldstone was ALWAYS our Frankenstein character from the "IT'S ALIVE!" moment to the "Legion" stuff here.
Coldstone calls Hudson "Mentor". That's a "name" I've been long considering for Hudson's "designation" in the DARK AGES prequel spin-off.
Coldstone shoots Goliath at point blank range. Goliath gets up unharmed. A far cry from what happened to G in "Long Way to Morning." Now in the outline and script, it says that Coldstone uses his "concussion cannon" as opposed to his laser cannon. But nothing in the as-aired episode makes that distinction. And so it just looks irresponsible to me. Like suddenly we're saying violence has no repercussions. Did that bother anyone else?
I love the dark comedy of Coldstone going bonkers at Ellis Island. Fighting with himself. I think Michael Dorn did a terrific job playing all four aspects of CS's personality. Which of you figured out what when? I'd like to know.
The Trio has the Recap visor. Now all they have to do is find Goliath, Hudson and Coldstone. How will they do that? "Three guesses?" A very elegant way to explain how in a huge city, they're able to locate three gargoyles.
Kenner's Coldstone toy is a lot of fun. With it's window into Coldstone's soul. And the spinner that allows any of the four personas to take over at random.
Xanatos doesn't even appear until the VERY END of Act Two. And it's not even really Xanatos, just a program designed by him. Normally, I'd say that wasn't playing fair. But I feel like his presence was obvious all-along. (And did David personally design that program. Or did he just put his stamp on it, management-style?)
There's a moment when Goliath, thrilled to see his rookery sister again, hugs Desdemona. She is immediately annoyed, because she knows that hug is prone to misinterpretation. It's a nice little touch in the animation.
I always wondered what if anything Demona thought about that ancient conflict way back when. Was Iago playing her as well? Trying to make her jealous of Desdemona? I think maybe he did try. But wouldn't it be cool if she didn't credit it for a second. If she just knew intuitively that Desdemona didn't present any threat at all to her relationship with G? Because, I feel the opposite is true. That Demona knew intuitively that Elisa DID present a threat. Say what you want for Demona, but her subconscious knows her man.
I love that moment where BOTH Iago and Xanatos are whispering in Othello's ears. Poor slob never stood a chance.
We've got a nice little Xanatos tag in this one too. Certainly not a doozy as in "Leader" or "Metamorphosis", but it's got a nice little kick to it, I think. And that's THREE episodes in a row. X had been busy.
And then I love the last beat back at the clock tower. Goliath has confiscated Coldstone's body, to keep it safe and "among friends" should he/she ever wake up again. I wanted to keep it in the corner from that point until "High Noon". Always present and visible. We didn't for two reasons. First, we figured it would be a bit confusing. The Batcave can get away with the giant penny and other souvenirs from Batman's cases, because there ARE multiple souvenirs. But just having one immobile gargoyle in the background, as cool and creepy as that is, would be horribly distracting for any audience member who missed this one particular episode. And second, we had our tier system. What if "Legion" wasn't ready as scheduled. We couldn't have Coldstone sitting around the clock tower in later episodes that we'd be forced to air first. Talk about disconcerting. So we invented a back room. Where Coldstone, the Grimorum, the Gate and eventually the eye could be stored.
Comments welcome, as usual...
I re-watched "Legion" the other night. I'll post my Rambling on it sometime this week, but first here's a memo from September, '94, written by me to Michael Reaves in response to Bob Skir & Marty Isenberg's first draft outline on the episode [reprinted here unedited]:
Notes on "LEGION" Outline...
Lots of great stuff in here. I just want to make sure that (1) we're clear on the theme and we milk it for all it's worth; (2) we're not skipping beats that will keep things mysterious and interesting for our audience; (3) we clarify the relationships (and names) a bit, and (4) we divorce it all from the 994 Viking attack.
General notes, in no particular order:
O.K. I'm as well versed in our series as anyone is going to get, and even I found myself confused by (and backtracking because of) our name problem. Coldstone... Pre-Coldstone... Coldstone's Love... Coldstone's Foe... Coldstone's Dyslexia could cause Coldstone's Ulcer. So let's give our "internal characters" names. I would suggest carrying these names into the script for use in character descriptions and stage directions. Use the names to indicate who is controlling the Coldstone creature at any given moment. And when we are in the inner world of Coldstone's psyche they can also be used as headings for the dialogue. The only place where we should not use these names is in the actual spoken dialogue. They are for our designation only, since, as we all know, gargoyles had no names in the tenth century.
COLDSTONE = The cyborg/gargoyle creature currently known as Coldstone and voiced by Michael Dorn. Use this name only when referring to him in the present. Or in stage directions when referring to the external creature. And obviously, this is the one name we can use in spoken dialogue.
OTHELLO = (Hey, we've already done Macbeth.) The situation you described naturally brought Othello to mind. Othello will refer to Pre-Coldstone (also voiced by Michael Dorn) when he is internally depicted as he was in the tenth century.
DESDEMONA = Will obviously refer to Othello's female gargoyle lover. (Please remember that Desdemona was a warrior in her own right. She can justifiably be confused by this new and bizarre situation, but she shouldn't be weak, clingy or changeable.)
IAGO = Will refer to Othello's male gargoyle foe.
The main problem I had with this backstory was its tough-to-swallow interweaving with the Viking massacre. I sense you were trying to explain how all their gargoyle parts got mixed up together. This isn't necessary. I think it's safe to assume that when Demona and Xanatos were gathering parts to create Coldstone, they couldn't find enough usable parts from any single gargoyle. We don't know the magical and scientific details that were necessary to revivify this creature, but I think we can safely assume that neither Demona or Xanatos simply wanted to graft Othello's head onto a robot body. Demona especially would have wanted the creature to be as much a gargoyle as possible. So she found a large chunk of Othello's head and a few other usable pieces. She chose him because the Viking who shattered him was lazy and left some chunks intact, but also because she may have had reason to believe that Othello had shared her negative views of humanity. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough of him to build Coldstone. So she turned around and found a nice unbroken piece of Desdemona. And over here, a piece or two from Iago. Toss in Xanatos' computer parts and you've got yourself a creature. She didn't have to be mixing them together by accident. We can posit that she did it out of necessity.
That gives us the freedom to remove this event from the Viking attack. We don't need to imply that Goliath is distracted by an impending Viking attack (which frankly I don't think he was expecting). And we don't need to sandwich in Othello's pursuit of Goliath on the fateful night. And we don't have to toss Demona into this particular story at all. (It's crowded enough as it is.) In fact, the incidents of this story's flashback could have happened months or years before they were all destroyed by Hakon's men. Let's give ourselves this breathing room.
I think Coldstone only has one voice-box: Othello's. No matter who controls the creature from the inside, from the outside he sounds like Michael Dorn. I'm not simply suggesting this for logic and/or economy (we'll still cast a different actress and actor for Desdemona and Iago in the mind-world sequences), but because I think we'd be missing a bet by not keeping our audience guessing until the third act as to what's causing the odd behavior of Coldstone. When Othello is in control, he will remember the events of "Reawakening". Neither Desdemona or Iago will, and they will react very differently to being awakened in the 20th century. When the computer is in control (i.e. when Xanatos is issuing simple and direct commands), Coldstone will respond like an automaton. But in every case, he will speak with Dorn's voice. This does more than present an interesting challenge for Dorn. It keeps our audience guessing as to what is going on.
However, we have no desire to keep our storyboard artists and animators guessing. Please resist the temptation to write the script as a mystery that only reveals things to the reader when the audience discovers the same truth. We need this teleplay to be a blueprint: as clear and straightforward as possible. We need to track who is in control of Coldstone at all times. (And if the above paragraph goes without saying, accept my apologies in advance.)
The theme of today's adventure is TRUST. And I really want to emphasize it as much as possible. Misplaced trust. Lack of trust. The need for trust. Betrayed trust. All those good trust beats. Goliath puts his trust in Coldstone, who seems to betray it. Othello trusts Iago instead of Desdemona and Goliath. Iago puts his trust in Xanatos. Etc. Etc. Etc. Just at the point where you've put the trust brick through the plate glass window of our audience's attention is the point where we've hit the mark. Anything short of that is liable to get lost in the shuffle of such a complex story. Playing this theme in action and dialogue will help keep us focused.
Goliath's goal is to restore Coldstone to the clan. Goliath misses his rookery brother. Remember, there are so few gargoyles left, that Goliath would value every one.
THE POLICE TICKING CLOCK
Rather than create a whole new character in charge of the police probe robot, I'd like to use Matt Bluestone. It's a bit of a stretch, I know, but there've been episodes of Hill Street where normal everyday cops were given the opportunity to test and evaluate new hi-tech material to see how it performed in real life situations. I think we can buy into it here as well. Particularly given Matt's personality. He's the kind of guy who would study the manuals and learn how to use this stuff. He's seen Goliath and Coldstone battle in Times Square. And he's an odd combination of compassionate idealist and minor paranoid. He might feel that it's better to know how this stuff works than be at the mercy of it. He could get into it.
And once the VR hook-up was "borrowed", he'd be pretty intent on finding out what was going on. He knows weird shit has been happening in Manhattan, but we've kept him an outsider to the world of the gargoyles. Though he's a decent guy, his ignorance makes him a viable threat to our heroes.
SCIENCE, SORCERY & CYBERSCAPE
In the beat sheet that follows, I've tracked the story in the most basic terms. [The science mostly.] But as you noted in your outline, Coldstone was created from both science and sorcery. So feel free to embellish the basics which I describe here. Particularly in the cyberscape scenes. Here, I've laid out only the bare bones to make sure the story tracks. The cyberspace reality should be fluid and changing, easily influenced by the thoughts, emotions and memories of the players involved. (Particularly Othello, but also Desdemona, Iago and even Xanatos and Goliath if appropriate.)
ACT ONE - (The idea in this act is to depict Coldstone under the control of each of his four masters (Xanatos, Othello, Desdemona and Iago) in turn, without revealing to the audience or our characters what exactly is happening.)
1. The George Washington Bridge, just before sunset. Coldstone's red robotic eye burns awake in the muck beneath the bridge. Automatic repair work begins. (Remember, the last time we saw him, Demona blew him away with a cannon.)
Intercut between these repairs and brief flashbacks to 10th century Scotland. Fleeting images of Othello and Desdemona in love. Of Iago sewing seeds of jealousy in Othello while Desdemona confides with Goliath. Of Othello attacking Goliath. Of Desdemona coming between them.
Then repairs complete, Coldstone rockets into the night sky. The creature speaks with Coldstone's voice (Michael Dorn) but in a modulated automaton-like fashion. "Repairs complete. New programming downloaded. Initiating Prime Directives."
[Basically Xanatos has broadcast a new binary code and reactivated the creature. It is Xanatos' computer programming which is now in control. Othello is still dormant.]
2. Goldencup Bakery Building, dusk. (Since this is a fictionalized location anyway, let's relocate it to Manhattan, so that we can pretend that it is located within Elisa and Goliath's "beat".) Coldstone [still under complete computer control] raids the government installation. His approach is anything but subtle. Alarms sound.
3. Clock Tower, just after sunset. Elisa's tosses Lex a headset receiver/transmitter. She tells him that she and Matt had been put on alert and now they got the call. Something's going down and they're going to test "the thing". It's clear from dialogue that they've discussed this already, as Lex is very excited to see how and if "the thing" works. Goliath is curious. What are they talking about? A new police robot probe for dealing with high-risk situations. The cops control it by using a virtual reality hook-up. Goliath: "Virtual... Reality?" This he has to see. He and Lex will follow her by air. They promise to stay out of sight.
4. Back at Goldencup, Coldstone moves like a juggernaut towards the computer room. He does not fight against the building's security forces, he simply ignores all opposition. Finally, he plugs into the computer. Suddenly Coldstone seems to have no idea where he is, what he was up to or why everyone is shooting at him.
[Although we shouldn't reveal what's going wrong yet, the computer virus has begun its attack on Coldstone's programming. It causes the creature to freeze up for a moment, and then Othello wakes up within his own body.]
Not knowing how he came into the windowless room, Coldstone doesn't even know the way out of the building. Well, he may not have the answers, but he can do something about his attackers. He begins to fight back. The humans are driven out.
5. Outside, Morgan tells Elisa & Matt that some kind of semi-robotic creature is pinned down inside. Matt is putting on the VR interface visor. Elisa asks him if he's sure he knows what he's doing. Matt says "Trust me, I didn't study all those manuals for nothing." The probe robot moves in. (Obviously, this thing shouldn't come close to being on a par with any of Xanatos' robots, but let's not make it a push-over either.) Lex and Goliath watch from building-tops, despite Elisa's warnings that they could be mistaken for the "creature". Lex is fascinated with the probe. Goliath is more interested in seeing what kind of creature the probe flushes out.
6. Meanwhile, Matt is getting the hang of the probe robot. At first it doesn't seem to be responding well. It freezes up by a computer bank and the visor goes dark for a few seconds, but then it kicks into gear. The robot approaches Coldstone. Matt tries to get Coldstone to surrender, via his connection to the Probe. But Coldstone's still a 10th century warrior at heart. He won't surrender to some Iron Tree stump (or whatever it looks like). So now it's Coldstone vs. the Probe. The Probe gets in a couple good shots, but soon it's on the ropes. Matt whips the visor off, just before the probe is destroyed. The feedback could be dangerous. (But note, the robot should not be blown to bits, just wrecked.) At any rate, the battle has led Coldstone to an exit (or at least to a small window, which he cannons into an exit). He takes off. Spotted by Lex and Goliath who pursue.
7. Goliath, Lex and Coldstone are reunited. (Maybe Coldstone is defensive and antagonistic until he gets a clear look.) They pause on a building top to talk. Goliath is thrilled that Coldstone is still alive. Coldstone is mightily relieved to see a friendly face. Lex is a bit dissatisfied with Coldstone's non-answers to his questions about what he was doing at Goldencup. But Goliath happily invites Coldstone to join the clan at their new home. They take off. Lex glides up close to Goliath and quietly questions the wisdom of taking a former enemy (and a guy who's acting pretty strange) into their home. But Goliath TRUSTS his rookery brother.
8. They arrive at the clock tower. Coldstone is especially thrilled to see his "Old Mentor", Hudson. Coldstone didn't see Hudson in "REAWAKENING" and is thrilled that Hudson survived the centuries. Nearly overcome with emotion Coldstone says there's only one other that he would be happier to see alive. And suddenly, he begins acting very odd. "Where am I? Goliath is that you? What's wrong with my voice?" That kind of stuff.
[The virus has had a systemic effect on Coldstone. It broke Xanatos' pre-programmed control, allowing Othello to regain control of his body. But as the system continues to break down, other voices are coming to the surface. You could call them ghosts, if you want. But they are the personas "haunting" the pieces of Coldstone that were neither Othello nor electronic. The first to surface is Desdemona, summoned to some degree by Othello's intense emotional memory of her. She has not been briefed on her circumstances and is legitimately confused.]
Somewhere in here, Coldstone catches sight of its own reflection, freaks out and takes off. Goliath and Hudson pursue. Brooklyn and Broadway are about to follow, when Lex stops them. Something's wrong inside Coldstone's head. And he thinks he knows how to find out what.
9. Goliath and Hudson catch up to Coldstone (after a chase?) at Ellis Island. As they approach, Coldstone stands very still, out of breath. Stunned by the huge city of Manhattan.
(Note: somewhere in here, Brooklyn glides toward them, spots them and then instead of landing, doubles back.)
Goliath asks "What's wrong?" Coldstone's whole demeanor changes: "What's wrong? Why, nothing. Nothing at all."
[The enormity of events has weakened Desdemona's hold over Coldstone. Iago has stepped in. The difference is that Iago arrives prepared. He has been briefed by the Xanatos programming. More on this later.]
Goliath hesitates for a moment, but in for a penny, in for a pound. He trusts Coldstone, approaches him openly. And Coldstone takes the opportunity to blow Goliath away.
ACT TWO - (In this act, Coldstone's deterioration continues. The personality shifts come quicker and ultimately don't wait for Othello to vacate control.)
10. Hudson moves quickly to Goliath's side. Good news. Coldstone used his concussion cannon, so Goliath is still alive. Of course, that could change. Goliath and Hudson barely avoid a blast from Coldstone's other cannon. The one that could kill them. Goliath can't understand what's going on, but Hudson points out that he's not going to have a chance to figure it out if they don't start fighting back. So it's a fight.
11. Meanwhile at Goldencup, Elisa and Matt are tying up loose ends. Lex arrives, and via his headset hook-up and her hidden microphone and ear piece, he tells her that the creature was Coldstone and that he's acting really weird. She's not surprised. Coldstone had plugged into a computer usually loaded with military defense secrets. But Goldencup had received a tip that there might be trouble. (That's why the Police had the Probe Robot ready.) But Goldencup took extra precautions, the defense computer was loaded with a new computer virus. It's probably destroying Coldstone's internal programming.
Lex takes this all in and then makes his request. He needs Matt's VR visor and the interface off the wrecked Probe Robot.
12. Back to Goliath and Hudson vs. Coldstone. Just as the tables might be turning, Coldstone's demeanor changes again. Why is Goliath attacking him?
[Iago was afraid of losing. During that moment of doubt, Othello regained control. As yet, Othello is unaware of the changes Coldstone's been going through.]
Now at this point, both Goliath and Coldstone [Othello] are pretty suspicious of each other. Goliath doesn't want to be fooled again. Coldstone says he blacked out at the clock tower. Now he's here and fighting with his rookery brother? He's confused and his head hurts....
And now Coldstone goes through some major mood swings.
[Rapid fire changes from Othello to Desdemona to Iago, etc.]
And now things get really strange. Coldstone can't seem to control some of his body parts. He's arguing with himself -- out loud. (Note: all these voices are still Michael Dorn.)
[Though Othello retains partial control, the other personas are bubbling to the surface as the whole system continues to break down. Now for the first time, Othello can hear the other voices, but it is a cacophony that is driving him nuts. I don't think he yet recognizes them specifically as Desdemona or Iago.]
Some of the voices tell him to trust Goliath. Some say destroy him. Some reiterate the events we saw in the flashback.
The "argument" gets more violent. Coldstone holds his head. He demands silence. He begins to fire blindly in all directions as if he could silence the voices that way. He's losing it. Goliath and Hudson dive for cover.
Suddenly Lex dive-bombs in, smashing into Coldstone and, not-so-incidentally, installing the VR interface hook-up. Coldstone collapses to his knees, begging for quiet.
Brooklyn and Broadway come in for a landing behind Lex. (While Lex was getting the equipment from Elisa, they had been scouting for Goliath, Hudson and Coldstone. When Brooklyn spotted them, he doubled back to tell Lex where to find them.)
Goliath tells them that Coldstone is being destroyed from the inside out.
Lex agrees and holds up the visor. If they want to save him, someone's going to have to go inside to do it.
13. Back at Goldencup, Matt tells Elisa that the VR visor and the hook-up have been stolen. Since secretly she took them and gave them to Lex, she shrugs and says they'll turn up. He's sure they will. This was expensive equipment with built-in homing beacons. He shows her a tracking device. They'll find them, all right. And when they do, he won't be half surprised if they find their creature as well.
14. Back on the Island, Lex is not at all thrilled about Goliath's decision to put on the visor himself. Lex feels that he's the best qualified to handle the technology, which is exactly why Goliath needs him on the outside in case something goes wrong. Goliath puts on the visor. An aura of Electricity and Magic surround him and Coldstone.
15. Goliath finds himself in cyber-sorcer-limbo-space . In front of him is a bridge leading over a swirling vortex [the virus] . There's nowhere to go but across. So he goes. There are already holes in the drawbridge. And the holes are getting bigger.
[The virus is now eating away at the VR interface.]
Goliath realizes that he's going to have to fix this problem, and get back across the bridge/interface before there's nothing left of it. On the other side of the bridge rising out of the cyber-mist is a dreamscape version of the 10th century Castle Wyvern. There are three gargoyles (Othello, Desdemona & Iago) frozen in cyber-stone. And half-hidden in the shadows is another familiar face -- Xanatos. He welcomes a shocked Goliath as we fade to black.
ACT THREE - (Revelation and conflict inside the deteriorating mind of Coldstone.)
16. The vortex is everywhere, and the castle is slowly sinking into it. Goliath demands an explanation from Xanatos, who steps out of the shadows and reveals that his body is full of cyber-holes, and is partially gone. Like the bridge, he is being eaten away by the virus. Xanatos explains that he is not in fact Xanatos, but a computer program with a primary objective to enslave Coldstone to Xanatos' grand design. Goliath is determined to stop him.
Suddenly the three gargoyles explode free of their stone shells. Othello again drops to his knees. Still traumatized. Desdemona runs to Goliath. (She was his rookery-sister, and he would remember her and greet her as such.) Now she fills in the blanks. Xanatos used more than one gargoyle to build his creature. They all live on inside it. But Iago is trying to wrest control of the creature from Othello. He's made some kind of deal with the human (i.e. Xanatos). But she won't let it happen. She loves Othello. Goliath must help her save him.
But meanwhile, Iago and Xanatos haven't been wasting any time. They whisper in Othello's ear. "See how Goliath steals your love away? It was the same 1000 years ago and now, once again, they have betrayed your trust."
Othello turns on Goliath. Knocks him back. Basically, tries to drop-kick him into the vortex.
17. On the outside, a catatonic Goliath and Coldstone seem to reel from the blows of invisible foes. Lex doesn't know what to make of the glowing aura that surrounds them. But Hudson recognizes sorcery when he sees it. Coldstone was created by science and sorcery. It was something Lex hadn't counted on. Then, via headset, Elisa alerts Lex that Matt is determined to get to the bottom of this mystery and that he and the authorities are closing in on them by SWAT helicopter and police boat. They better make tracks. Lex tries to take the visor off Goliath but the aura throws him back. It ain't gonna be that easy.
18. Inside, Desdemona tries to separate Goliath and Othello. Othello: "Again, you come to his defense." But she protests. He is forgetting what happened. 1000 years ago he was jealous of Goliath, but needlessly. Her love for him is eternal and true. And Goliath was not and is not his enemy but rather his brother and true friend. He has been tricked again by Iago. It's a crucial moment. Who will Othello trust? Desdemona & Goliath or Iago & the human Xanatos? Othello will trust his heart. He turns to face his true enemies.
But it's too late. The partial Xanatos is already merging with Iago. Together they are transformed into a Cyborg version of Iago, but giant-sized. The giant Cyborg-Iago smashes Goliath and Othello and prepares to throw them over the ramparts and into the vortex. With his other hand, Iago lifts Desdemona to eye level and invites her to merge with him as well. Then they can finally be together as Iago always knew they should be.
19. Outside, Lex stands watch over Coldstone and Goliath, while Hudson, Brooklyn and Broadway try to sabotage Matt's attack force without hurting anyone or being seen. They cut fuel lines on the choppers. Overturn the boats or whatever.
20. Inside, Desdemona tries to hand Cyborg-Iago his head. She's a warrior and will choose her own love. This gives Othello and Goliath the chance to recover. Now it's the three gargoyle heroes against the giant cyborg-monster. Maybe the castle landscape itself begins to change and mutate into a hollow vision of Coldstone. (They are battling for the soul of this creature-amalgam.) Ultimately, (surprise, surprise) it is the giant-cyborg-Iago that is tossed into the vortex.
But time is running out. Othello and Desdemona insist that Goliath return to his own body before the vortex swallows everything. But what about them? They are finally together. If they can halt the vortex, so be it. If they fall to it, so be that. At least they will be together. The bridge appears. Goliath crosses it, just as it collapses into the vortex.
21. Outside, the magical aura fades away just as Broadway, Brooklyn and Hudson return. Authorities are still coming. Couldn't do anymore without revealing themselves. Goliath removes the visor. Lex removes the interface from Coldstone. For the first time since scene one, Coldstone's red robotic eye dims and fades.
22. Matt and Elisa finally arrive on the island. Matt uses his tracking devise to lead them to the equipment. They find the visor and interface on the ground. The area is otherwise deserted. Not a creature in sight.
23. At Xanatos' castle, Xanatos asks Owen if there were any problems. Besides the minor setback of losing Coldstone, no. Xanatos' Scarab Corp. Robotics Division confiscated the remains of the Probe Robot (including the interface and visor) which they had supplied to the police in the first place. Coldstone was the perfect cover for the Probe Robot to get what Xanatos really wanted: the virus. Forget defense secrets, the virus is the deadliest weapon he knows of. It even defeated the mighty Coldstone.
24. Inside the clock tower, Goliath has installed the dormant Coldstone in the corner. Someday, he trusts, his rookery brother and sister may fight their way to the surface. He wants them among friends when they do.
Here's my try for the 14 clans, Greg:
7. New Olympus
8. the Coldtrio
12. a Space Station
Thanks for your time!
O.K. Once more. "Mutates/Clones" isn't a place. "Coldtrio" isn't a place. I won't say whether the Mutates/Clones and/or the Coldtrio represent an entire clan or not. But we're looking for locations here. LOCATIONS. PLACES named with as much specificity as they've been named in the show.
For example, saying "Japan" would get you only a half point, because we've been more specific. Saying "Ishimura" would get you a full point. Saying "Ishimura, Japan" would get you that same full point, because the "Ishimura" implies the Japan, so you haven't added anything. On the other hand, saying "Guatemala" also gets you a full point, because in that case, we've never been more specific. But saying "Obsidiana, Zafiro, Turquesa, Jade and some eggs" as complete as that is, would get you ZERO points, because they are the Mayan clan's POPULation, not its LOCation.
(Sorry, Ambrosia, I didn't mean to pick on you. I just want to make sure everyone gets the rules. And I don't want to have to explain them again.)
Seven full points. Two half points.
OK I'll try to stick to one subject(the Coldtrio)
#1. In the "High Noon" scene when the Weird Sisters split Desdemona into three entities(or I'm assuming it was them), why didn't Othello/Coldstone react more...adversely?... to it? (I would if I saw *my* SO inexplicably split into threes:-)
#2. What would Demona and Coldfire's relationship be like in modern times? Would Coldfire blame her sister for her current condition?
#3. Was there ever any chance of the Cold Trio regaining flesh-and-blood bodies(either through magic or cloning?)
1. I think he was freaked, but there were more pressing matters at hand.
2. Probably some. But Coldfire's more forgiving than most. Demona would love to bring Coldfire to her way of thinking, but failing that, Coldfire would fall into Demona's ever-increasing enemies list.
3. There's always a chance. But don't hold your breath. (They're much more interesting to me like this.)
What stage was Broadway and Angela's relationship at, when Coldfire and Coldstone borrowed their bodies for that offscreen "reunion"? I remember that when the Colds thanked them for the loan, Angela said, "It was... our pleasure", and Broadway gave a look like he thought, "Wow, really?"
Just beginning. It was a major (if subtle) step in their relationship. It created a connection. Brought Broadway to Angela's special attention.
You said in Dark Ages Demona and Desdemona would be sisters. Do you mean rookery or biological?(It's probably the first but it's worth a try to ask.
Rookery, of course.
When a gargoyle dies, the disposition of his or her body depends only slightly on whether the gargoyle died during the day or at night.
If at night, the corpse is cremated.
If during the day, the rubble is pulverized.
(The notion of pulverizing the undamaged stone corpse of a gargoyle who has died peacefully in his sleep is disturbing. But in fact, gargoyles so rarely die peacefully in their sleep as to make this a non-issue.)
In either case, the cremated or pulverized remains are taken by the gargoyle mourners to the highest point on the local map. A memorial is held. Everyone who wishes to speak of the departed, may. No one, not even the departed's enemies, may be denied a voice. In the end, the mourners spread the remains upon the wind, saying, "Ashes to ashes OR dust to dust. All is one with the wind." (Over time, humans began to use a variation of the same at their funerals.)
The gargoyles then spread their wings, soaring amid the ashes or dust in the hope that part of the departed will stay with them forever.
[Note: There was no one to perform the wind ceremony for Coldstone, Coldfire or Coldsteel. That, and the location's ambient magicks coupled with the trio's own passions, may explain their accessability to Demona's ressurection spell.]
As promised, I'll now attempt to recreate the lost ramble on this episode, which I recently watched again with my family.
For those of you who haven't seen it, I refer you to my recently posted "Memo" on this episode dated back in April of 1994. One thing you might have noticed was that the title of the episode was "The Awakening". In the memo, I suggested what I thought was the more appropriate title "Reawakening". Michael liked that idea but had a suggestion that did it one better. He suggested renaming our pilot five-parter "Awakening". I jumped at the idea. At the time, the five-parter was simply titled "Gargoyles, Part One", "Gargoyles, Part Two", etc. I've never liked that sort of cop out where the pilot's title is simply the series' title. Among other things, it lacks imagination. And it's dishonest. By that standard, "The Journey"'s real title should have been "Gargoyles, Part Sixty-Six". So giving our pilot its own title seemed like a very good idea to me.
But there was another reason why I liked Michael's plan. We were working on our last episode of the first season. It was April of 1994, nearly a year before that episode would air. And a good six months before our premiere. There was no way of knowing whether or not there would ever be a SECOND season. And so to protect myself (emotionally) I had to operate on the assumption that their might not be. Obviously, I wasn't going to do anything apocalyptic. I wanted there to be a second season, so I wanted to leave the doorway open for it. So Michael, Frank, Brynne and I discussed the idea of open-ended closure. If there never was a second season, we'd go out with a bang. We'd give some small amount of closure to our characters. Let them reach a turning point. If this was to be it, we'd have created a little 13 episode novel that brought the Gargoyles from the past to the present and renewed (reawakened) their sense of purpose.
Nice. We'd done the open-ended closure thing (to a lesser degree) at the end of what would eventually be called "Awakening, Part Five" and we'd eventually do it again at the end of "Hunter's Moon, Part Three". And I'd do it for myself in my script for "The Journey".
But there are tricks to achieving a sense of closure. And one of the tricks is to create parallels with the episodes that launched your story.
So by retro-titling our pilot "Awakening" and naming our last ep "RE-Awakening" you can see how we gave ourselves a headstart.
But there were other parallels. The flashback to the past, (which we intentionally built so that it could theoretically be edited into the pilot if necessary) included the Magus at his most pre-Avalon obnoxious. Obviously, that flashback also intro'd pre-Coldstone, but it served the purpose of calling those first couple of flashback episodes clearly into the viewers' minds. (The only problem with that scene, is that Hudson has his sword in a couple of the shots. This is a mistake, as any good Garg fan knows that Hudson first acquired his sword in the battle with the Vikings that took place the following night.)
We also did the big event VILLAIN TEAM-UP thing, bringing Xanatos and Demona back together for the first time since "Awakening, Part Five". (I love the exquisite tension that plays between them. They are both SO using each other. When Demona tells Coldstone that X is her servant, you know that she's partly doing that to circumvent Coldstone's questions, but that she also partly believes that it's true.)
We also used Morgan in Times Square in a very similar way to how he was used in "Awakening, Part One" (reiterated in "Awakening, Part Two").
And then there's that moment near the end where Elisa asks Goliath if there's anything he needs. He answers "A Detective" verbally echoing a key moment from their first meeting in "Awakening, Part Three". That still tickles me.
Obviously, Frank and I both worked overtime to pay homage to the classic Universal "FRANKENSTEIN" movie. I can say "pay homage" with a straight face (as opposed to rip off) because we so clearly acknowledged the source. Frank's art direction of the lab. X's line: "It's alive! Alive!" (Wonderfully undercut by Jonathan Frakes' reading of the follow-up "I've always wanted to say that.") And the whole idea behind Coldstone. (More on this when I eventually ramble on "Legion".)
Coldstone would be our Frankenstein's monster. Pieced together. Gargoyle & Machine. Reanimated (reawakened). I even love the Coldstone name. And wasn't Michael Dorn's sepulchral tones just perfect for the role?
And Goliath's reaction is so multi-faceted, so Dr. Frankenstein... [You know Goliath's response to his brother here, would be echoed later in his response to his "son" Thailog in "Double Jeopardy". Initially, Goliath's simply repulsed by what he sees, calling Coldstone "an abomination". But given a bit of time, Goliath quickly sees past appearances and attempts whole-heartedly to save his brother. He'll go through the same changes with Thailog. Well... at least we (and Goliath) were consistent.]
Snow. It started snowing in "Her Brother's Keeper" and now the city is blanketed in the stuff. (And doesn't Elisa look cute in her scarf and gloves.)
Brooklyn's still pissed off at Demona, specifically and sarcastically asking if she has anymore "spells to save you now". In fact, we wanted to make clear that the spell used to resurrect (reawaken) Coldstone was one of the spells she tore out of the Grimorum in "Temptation". Instead, we cheated a bit. By having her tell Xanatos that the "Cantrips have already been spoken" it saved us the trouble of getting another spell translated into Latin. We were either lazy or short on time or -- most likely -- both.
Following out of "The Edge", and until the helmet comes off at the bridge, the gargs assume that Xanatos in his armor is simply another Steel Clan Robot. The next upgrade. The red model. They have no idea it's actually Xanatos himself in armor.
Small observation: Mirrors don't fare too well in the Gargoyles Universe.
Emotionally, I think the story is very successful at taking the audience through Goliath's spiritual reawakening. I love how he starts out pensive and brooding, listening to that great exchange between the trio and Hudson, realizing that all of them have lost track of their true purpose. Hudson recites the Gargoyle credo merely as an excuse not to go out in the cold. (And I love Thom's reading on Lex's "We don't even live in a castle anymore" response.) The trio are clearly missing the point, but methodical thinker Goliath isn't sure he remembers what the point is either.
And that dovetails SO nicely with Elisa revealing the Police motto "Protect and Serve". The police motto/gargoyle credo connection is so perfect, it struck me even at the time as further proof that we were tapping into something very true in our little fictions. (And don't cops -- for better and sometimes for worse -- act just like a clan?)
From there, Goliath moves past the notion of simply being a reactive character, struggling only to SURVIVE one crisis after another. Now he will strive to be proactive. To rededicate (reawaken) the clan toward their original life purpose. Extending the term "castle" to Manhattan island was always our plan. Even that was intentionally primitive in our view. Goliath doesn't protect New York City. Not all five burroughs anyway. That's beyond his medieval scope at this still-early stage. He can get his head around protecting an island surrounded by water. Not the whole world. But eventually, the plan would include expanding the clan's definition until Castle Earth was the only thing that made sense. Of course, that might not have been fully realized until 2158. But we'd have gotten there. And the World Tour was part of that process too.
(Besides Hudson's sword...)
--One line in the ep. that for some reason still makes me cringe is Elisa's "My car's big." It just seems awkward to me. Not sure why.
X & D watch Coldstone's progress from the castle. Almost instantaneously they're at Times Square. We always knew we were just skating by on that.
Goliath & Coldstone go into the water at the bridge TWICE within the span of a couple of minutes or so. The first time, Goliath nearly drowns. The second time he's completely uneffected (physically) by the experience. We get away with it because the second time he's diving in on purpose. But just the fact that we had to dunk them both twice is an awkward construction (and my fault). At least, Goliath looks good with wet hair.
Some really graceful animation here. Goliath has some great moves, and I love that moment when Matt and especially Elisa are diving into the snow, out of the way of the car that Coldstone has just thrown... And speaking of that scene...
TIMES SQUARE SEQUENCE
There's some very interesting, fun stuff here besides what I've already mentioned about it above. A sampling:
Explosions in Bambi. :)
Demona's Clan: Herself, Coldstone, a Steel Clan Robot and Xanatos in Gargoyle Battle Armor. It's so twisted. I love it.
Goliath's very smart here. He doesn't want the fight to take place in public and basically convinces Xanatos to take his side on the issue by flattering him. Goliath refers to Manhattan as "your city" (i.e. Xanatos' city), this despite the obvious fact that Goliath does NOT regard Manhattan as Xanatos' personal property. And Xanatos, usually immune to such stuff, falls for it -- maybe BECAUSE it comes from the ultra-sincere Goliath.
I also am very fond of the Mr. Jaffe book-ends. I think they're a lot of fun. And I love how Matt talks about Mr. Jaffe. It gives us insight into Matt's character, his background, his youth. His empathy for Jaffe really helps humanize him. Matt was always eminently human.
Signing off now...
"Because six monsters just told me to..."
I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.
But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...
THE MEMO (unedited):
To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436
Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)
Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.
After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.
Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).
This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.
Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.
2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.
3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?
5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."
6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.
8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.
9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)
11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.
12. Times Square.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.
13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?
14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.
15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.
16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.
17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."
18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."
19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.
Who is Desdemona and Iago? Why are desdemona's wings weird looking like she has four of them?
You seem to know the answer to your first question.
Desdemona and Iago were off-camera names that we gave to Coldfire and Coldsteel, i.e. Coldstone's other two personalities, the other gargoyles that were used to make up his body.
And Desdemona simply has a different wing-type than most of the others. As does Lex. And Griff. Etc.
I believe you've said that Gabriel will learn he's Coldstone and Coldfire's son (and I think vice-versa as well). To what extent will he *care* about this? As much as Angela cared about her own parentage? Less so? Will he be completely uninterested, considering only the Princess/Guardian/Magus to be his real parents?
I think he'd care more than, say Broadway. Probably not as much as Angela. The difference is that Coldstone and Coldfire wouldn't care at all. That is, they'd be thrilled that all their children survived. To them, Angela is as much a daughter as Gabriel is a son. They were too distracted to deal with that in Possessions. But if I had been able to get back to that....
In the Dark Ages would Demona and Desdemona be good friends?
What body parts on Coldstone our Desdemona's and Iago's?
Most of Coldstone is Othello. But there's a thigh that belongs to Iago, and a forearm that was Desdemona's.
Or put another way...
I don't know. And it's too late for me to care.
I did care originally, but we had to design Coldstone and Othello for the first season, and there wasn't time to design Desdemona or Iago, just so that we could divide up their parts.
Concerning the Coldtrio, are they now immortal due to their new bodies? I mean, obviously if their bodies were destroyed, they'd die, but if they weren't, would they just keep living and not age or die of natural causes?
Also, I assume it's been told by now that Gabriel is supposed to be Coldstone and Desdemona's son. If the show had gone on, or if it was resumed, would they have ever met? If so, how would Gabriel react to the robotic state of his parents? (and I feel Gabriel would think of them as his 'parents', since Angela has already shown this trait.)
1. Yeah, what you said.
2. Eventually, but I haven't thought through that encounter yet, so I don't have any details to reveal.
In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?
P.S. I wanted to thank you for answering my question regarding Hudson's feelings about Goliath and Elisa. Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that Hudson wasn't open-minded. I just remembered that you had stated a long time ago (I think in your rambling about gargs and sex) that you saw Hudson as being the one who would still hold on to the tradition of only taking one mate.
Anubis had a very strict policy. And he had the integrity to stick to it.
(And thanks for the clarification on Hudson. I just wish you had posted the Hudson P.S. seperately. I'd like to have on-going dialogue as part of ASK GREG. But when you attach a piece of an unrelated discussion to a question on a different topic, it makes archiving all this stuff a disaster.)
At the Gathering you showed the Dark Ages pitch showing that Iago would've been allied with the Archmage. We know that Demona was his apprentace, but what does Iago have to offer him?
Well, I've been reading over the questions and responses already posted, and they're inspiring questions of their own. I'll try to separate my posts into topics. And thanks again for doing this for us- you're keeping your series alive with the fans.
1. How did we learn that Hudson was Broadway's father? Does Hudson know this, and if so, how did he find out?
2. You didn't want to say whether the Mutates' children would be mutated themselves. Are they still *able* to have children at all?
3. Did Coldstone's son have a name?
Calling this one topic is kind of a stretch, but you squeeked by...
1. I don't know that anyone inside the world of the series cares about this detail. Hudson is one of Broadway's many Clan Fathers. For that matter, Brooklyn and Lex would feel the same way. I think fandom learned that Hudson was Broadway's biological father from me. It was just something that always seemed right to me.
2. I'm not ruling it out.
3. If you mean his biological son, that's Gabriel.
1) where did you get the idea of gargoyles ?
2)What happened to galiaith's brother; will they ever see each other again?
3)Do the gargoyles find out who Mcbeth is?
1. I've answered this before. Check the archives.
2. If you mean Coldstone, then yes, I think they will.
3. Questions on separate topics need to be submitted on separate posts.
Thanks Greg for ansering my quistions
If the Dark ages was ever made would we see alot of Hudson's rookery mates. And Goliaths and Demonas rookery sibblings and also the trio rookery sibblings. And also would some of them been some of the main chacters?
Goliath, Demona, Desdemona, Iago and Othello would all have been major characters. Along with Hudson.
The Trio would have been supporting character. I'm not saying we wouldn't have seen more of their siblings, but that age group would not have been the focus.
I'm sure we'd have met other gargoyles eventually.
Hey Greg, SJ here. Just a few questions:
1. Are the Weird Sisters three separate beings, or are they merely one entity in three forms?
2. Had the series continued, would you have included any exposure to more "races" of beings on Earth? We already experienced one possible "fourth race", the New Olympians, and I was wondering if you planned to build upon the possibility of other sentient life beyond the "big three".
3. We know that in the Gargoyle universe, some form of human afterlife exists (as can be seen by Hakon and the Captain's ghosts). Do the gargoyles have some form of an afterlife? It would seem so, seeing as Coldstone was supposed to be three souls trapped in one body.
4. In order to cross-breed with humans and/or gargoyles, do fae have to legitimitally shape-shift themselves into completely human or gargoyle forms, or is the procreation process aided by magic?
5. Was Demona involved in any of the following: The Spanish Inquisition, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Civil War, and Vietnam?
6. Also, if you would, please answer these questions about Dr. Sevarius:
a.) Does Sevarius have any family (beyond the clones)? You know, such as a wife, children, or even a brother or sister? Also, did you ever think about incorporating any of his relatives into a story?
b.) Exactly what is Sevarius' ancestral background? By that I mean, where does he come from, what is his place of birth, homeland, etc.?
c.) Where did he receive his education and medical training?
d.) About what is his age? A fairly approximate age would be most appreciated.
e.) With his sort of "Mengele"-esque techniques, is he a international (or at least U.S.) fugitive because of these inhumane practices?
Well, I've wasted enough of your time. Thanks!!!
Glitcheriffic, I answered these yesterday, but with the server problems the answers were lost. So here I go again.
2. Depends what you mean.
3. You answered your own question, to the extent you asked one.
4. Yes. (Don't you love either/or questions?)
6a. Don't know.
6b. Haven't decided.
6d. Late forties.
6e. I don't think his work is that well known.
Ok.. WOW.. i have yet more... i'm comin' up royal tonight...
1a)In order to make Cold Stone, didn't Demona need at least some part of his original stone body (The pieces that were left after he was killed)?
1b) If she did need some parts of his original body, how'd she get them? Did she save some of him for a thousand years or did Xanatos have some saved parts of him? I can't imagine she could go back and gather up the pieces, because first of all how would she get back to Europe and secondly wouldn't erosion have kicked in after 1000 years?(If this doesn't make perfect sense i really apologize, but it makes sense in my head)
2) Goliath, Brooklyn, Lex, Bronx, and Broadway were in stone sleep for 1000 years.. why didn't any erosion or weathering occur on them even though the castle itself eroded? Is it because in reality these Gargoyles were living beings or did it have something to do with the magic involved in their being stone for 1000 years?
1b. Xanatos collected them.
2. They weren't dead. They were asleep. Solar energy allowed for ongoing replenishment. But I wouldn't recommend the experience.
Hello greg this is my first time I been in asked you quistions so here they are
1) If the Timedancer series was ever made what would Brooklyn's mate look like?
2) If Pendragon was made would Author and Griff find any other Gargoyle Clans when they were looking for Merlin? And also would would Griff ever get a mate. Would she be in Griff's Clan or another?
3) Would Coldstone and Coldfire ever find out thst they have a son on Avolon?
4) In the episode Awakning part 2 Owen said that the locile claim that casle Wyvern is haunted. Was it haunted by the Massacreed Clan members?
Hey Lawrence, welcome...
1. I'm not an artist. So although, I have some vague ideas, I intentionally don't want to nail that down until either (a) the time came for collaboration with an artist or (b) it became clear that the medium where the character was going to be introduced was purely a prose one.
2. Maybe, yes and I'm not sure what you mean.
4. Mostly by Hakon and the Captain.
Glad to see AskGreg is back up.
1. Does Demona know about the Illuminati Society?
2. Does the Illuminati Society know about Demona?
3. Why exactly did you decide that Jackal and Hyena would become Cyborgs and that Wolf would become a Mutate? Why specifically that combination instead visa versa?
4. How long has Nokkar's intergalactic war been going on?
5. What happened to the helicopter Lexington fixed in HER BROTHERS KEEPER?
6. You said that New Olympians generally live for 13-250 years. So would any of the New Olympians we know be alive and around in 2158?
7. How does the Avalon Clan feel about Demona and Macbeth? (They must know those two weren't acting under their own will during the fight with the Archmage but to someone who they injured that little bit of information might not exactly displace anger at being injured.)
8. After all these years, does Macbeth know that Demona was listioning outside his window when Bodhe suggested betraying her clan to the English?
9. What are the Mutates feelings towards Alex Xanatos?
10. Why didn't Xanatos try to make Coldfire and Clodsteel look more "alive"; meaning why not slap some fake flesh on them like he did for Cyoti 1.0?
11. In POSSESSION, why wasn't Angela shocked at seeing Coldstone? After all when Goliath first saw him, he called him an abomination.
12. What was Goliath thinking in SANCTUARY and MARK OF THE PANTHER when he kept tellin Angela that she has many mothers and fathers? Who was he thinking of? There's only him, Hudson, Coldstone, Demona, and the Trio at that point. Did he seriously expect the Trio to think of Anglea as their daughter?
13. In 2158, how do you picture the world political status? Are there still seperate countries for example?
14. What is the legal status of Gargoyles in 2158?
15. What is Renard's opinion of Petros Xanatos?
2. Quite a bit.
3. A lot had to do with what felt right for the characters I guess. Wolf was very animalistic and hostile. Seemed perfect to make him a genetic werewolf. Jackal & Hyena were just nuts. A sociopath and a psychopath. It felt right that they would take things to the ultimate extreme.
4. Quite some time, young feller.
5. Kenner decided not to make a toy out of it.
6. That wasn't my plan.
7. Indiviuals all react differently. I'm not going to give you thirty-six individual responses.
8. I think he figured it out that night on Lunfanan Hill.
9. Which Mutate?
10. Fake gargoyle flesh? What would be the point?
11. Well, the truth here is that Angela had seen him already in the Himalayas. At least that had been my plan if the comic book hadn't been cancelled.
12. He was trying to instill in her the idea that her preoccupation with her biological parentage was an unhealthy human notion. (And since he knew Demona was her biological mother, you can see where his fear was coming from.) Of course, he lost the forest for the trees as Diane Maza pointed out in "Mark". He tried to make up for it later.
13. Yes and no.
14. Protected minority.
15. They barely know each other. And on some level, I think they'd get along, except for one thing... Renard hates David. And though Petros doesn't approve of much of his son's actions, I can't see him standing calmly by while someone else berates his son. Blood. Whatchagonnado?