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The Phoenix Gate

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Comments for the week ending September 22, 2003

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I hope the queue "accidentally" disappears one of these days. I don't care if Greg does reveal what Titania said, I would much rather have the headache for Greg gone. I can see why it isn't being deleted though. If we don't make a system for stopping the stupidity we will be in the same problem again. I liked the idea of a group of mods who have the power to link questions to the answer in the FAQ and/or the previously asked questions archive. That alone would eliminate volumes, but nothing is going to be fixed until this long awaited new version Ask Greg comes out.
Jimmy
Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:14:59 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

Hmm. Here's another question that's really, really stupid:

* * * STUPID QUESTION * * *

received from 64.203.44.179 on Sunday, September 21, 2003 12:27:28 AM
The Hunter writes...

What was that Titania whispered to Fox .

.p.s. I am a mind reader which means I can read minds so you'd better answer the answer to me or I'll just read your mind
. You'd better give me the answer by September 21 , 2003 .

* * * END STUPID QUESTION * * *

Obviously the morons hasn't bothered to check the number of questions in line.

Honestly, I do believe Ask Greg submissions oughta be shut down again pretty soon. I do believe Ask Greg could be caught up with in about 6 months if a committee started screening through questions and quoting previous responses.

Yes, the ability to delete a question up to virtually the last minute should be incorporated.

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, September 21, 2003 06:31:30 PM
IP: 204.94.193.37

JJ> I understand the lawsuit fear/paranoia, which is why i didn't post any links, HOWEVER, anything i download i either have already bought, and just have a backup on computer, or haven't bought because its not available. I'll be happy to get rid of all my files once i can get them in proper media, but for the time being, i have no other way of watching them, and i'm sure i'm not the only one with that problem
Void
Sunday, September 21, 2003 05:24:21 PM
IP: 68.88.35.247

i don't understand why we are afraid to risk alienating someone who comes in, doesn't follow directions, doesn't bother to see if they are asking something thats been asked before, wastes Greg (and our) time, and expects a quick answer. i don't want to alienate anyone, but if people are going to be stupid and/or inconsiderate they are alienating themselves and we can't do much about that.
theres a simple fact, Greg loves to answer our questions and will gladly answer our questions, but unless your question is an unanswered question that doesn't submit an idea or break any other rules, your question isn't going to get to Greg. period.
if we drill this into peoples heads from the moment they even consider asking Greg a question then they will know that to blindly ask a question is risking having that question deleted and to blindly ask a question may be a waste of your time.
if people would follow the rules and the rules were enforced no one would be alienated. but because we are allowing stupid and repeat questions to go to Greg (and thus breaking the rules) we are saying to newcomers, "feel free to ask whatever you want no matter how dumb it is or how many times it has been asked" by being so open to any question, we are inviting more bad questions. lets draw a line and say "your question needs to fufill these guidelines and if it doesn't and you submit it, it'll be deleted. sorry." if people know that and know the guidelines before submitting they can't be alienated when the consequences happen (deletion of their question)

and there you go, we solve the problem and don't alienate anyone.

matt
Sunday, September 21, 2003 02:46:20 PM
IP: 207.230.48.16

The other problem with Ask Greg is the possible alienation of people who are new to the series if we just delete the questions. Then there may be a new stack of questions,"Why was my question deleted when so and so's question is really stupid, etc."

I don't if this can be done but what if the Ask Greg page was a 2 step process? Have a link that normally sends you to the "ask your question page" instead sends you to the faq. Then somewhere on the bottom of the faq, have a link that sends you off to ask your question. That way, they can't miss the faq and say "I checked the the faq and it wasn't there." Or maybe have the ask question link be at the bottom of every individual faq.

For the current problem, I'm not sure because most ways at solving it will alienate someone...

Wish I new what the technical term is for that ask question section so I don't sound like a first-grader is posting:(

Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Sunday, September 21, 2003 02:06:24 PM
IP: 128.113.64.92

JJ Greg if you're going to be so paranoid, I suppose I could burn to some CDs bring them to you. Do you live on campus? If not I could mail 'em in some bubble wrap.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Sunday, September 21, 2003 01:39:54 PM
IP: 132.170.42.183

How bout a "if your question has anything to do with this it will be deleted" list.
Such as:
1)Why was gargoyles cancelled
2)Are they going to bring it back
3)What did Titania whisper to Fox?
4)Can Demona have kids
5)etc., etc.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Sunday, September 21, 2003 01:30:06 PM
IP: 132.170.42.183

OK, here are some possible sugestions:

Perhaps the info gleemed from the categories that are very long and take time to download can be condensed somewhere where it can be more quickly accessed... For example, someone posted a lump of questions on romance/love matters, and only one pertained to Puck, Titania, etc. Take relevant info from questions like that and condense the question and the answer into a brief statement apropriate for the individual subject, in this case, Titania, Puck, etc. This would also work well for repetative questions that , though they vary slightly and have slightly differing answers, could none the less be condensed. Of course, even though this could be done...some people just may not want to go to where this area of the site is, and read them. For those people, make it very clear that if they ask a question that is already covered in these condensed files, that it will automatically be deleated. Sometimes it helps to spell out not only the rules, but also the consequences for breaking the rules.

It is my personal opinion that the down load and read time for some catagories is a bit long, again, this is no excuse to not take the time to read them, but it is more than likely for some a part of the problem. And of course, leave the questions asked and answered area as it is...I do not mean to use the condensed area as a replacement, but rather as a quick way of seeing in condensed form what INFORMATION has been gleemed.
Sahyinepu
Houston , TX
Sunday, September 21, 2003 12:57:43 PM
IP: 64.221.8.218

matt >>
Gemini_Bloodian writes...
Sadly,Even though Ive watched almost every episode I keep forgeting.Who was Goliath's second in command after Demonia?I mean I eventually find it oout hten I forget it.

i just can't understand Greg when he says he doesn't want to erase questions like this! if Greg would just give Todd more freedom to delete certain ubiquitous or bad questions the queue would really start to get smaller...

* * * * * * *
This is a good candidate for a question to be answered from the FAQ, IIRC.

JJ "Gregarius" (T)
Orlando, FL
Sunday, September 21, 2003 11:58:29 AM
IP: 65.244.173.75

another winning question from the queue:

Gemini_Bloodian writes...
Sadly,Even though Ive watched almost every episode I keep forgeting.Who was Goliath's second in command after Demonia?I mean I eventually find it oout hten I forget it.

i just can't understand Greg when he says he doesn't want to erase questions like this! if Greg would just give Todd more freedom to delete certain ubiquitous or bad questions the queue would really start to get smaller...
my boyfriend and i have been going out for over a year and a half, and there are questions from a month before we started going out! thats insane!
i don't have the exact numbers of questions in the queue, but with my best guesses and Greg doing 10 questions a week as hes been doing, if we shut down the queue right now it would still take Greg somewhere around 3 YEARS just to catch up! Houston, we have a problem...

matt
Sunday, September 21, 2003 11:17:58 AM
IP: 216.178.8.76

My thoughts about the posts etc.:

1.: There DEFINETELY must be a commitee who decides to erase questions. There are SO many useless posts...
Also, I know this is silly, but they should try to rewrite questions with MASSES of typos...

2.: Questions that might be OK should be left, f.e. I usually asked him, which movies and series were highlights for him, since I find it quite interresting where he get's his ideas as a writer from... but if I don't like my own questions, then...

3.: ... I should be able to erase them, that would also be REALLY helpfull when Contests start (remember the 1000 posts with awnsers allreaddy given, or after the contest was over...)

Just my takes...

The Coma-man
Berlin, Deutschland
Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:58:24 AM
IP: 217.87.15.157

Ack, one last thing,

If anyone has any article ideas, or wishes to contribute to avalon mists, or just has ideas on what _THEY_ want to see?? Please let me know?

Siryn - [ekkapinto@yahoo.com]
Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:02:03 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

WOW. Huge newbie influx!! Welcome!! ^_^

AMGC & MGC have been updated slightly. :)
There is still time to enter artwork in the art contests!!

ANd congrats to the winners!

MGC: (which was INCREDIABLE close! Down to 1 or 2 votes for each category!!)
Most Creative: Shauntell
Most Artistic: Shinga

Special Mention for Most Creative: Epantiras.
Special Mention for Most Artistic: Shauntell.

AMGC:
Most Creative: Shinigami
Most Artistic: Kythera


There are also art, photo, and writing contests for Avalon Mists, and the deadline for that is October 15th! (I will accept late submissions, just not too late, given I have to code the whole zine..and I want to try to get it out for the 1st of November (on time, and complete. O.o)

Siryn - [ekkapinto@yahoo.com]
Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:00:39 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Me paranoid, CKayote? Why do you think I never posted a usable e-mail address? ;-)

Actually, I've been meaning to email you about UCF for some time. I still can't get over meeting another Golden Knight here amongst people from all over the place.

JJ "Gregarius" (T)
Orlando, FL
Sunday, September 21, 2003 01:13:04 AM
IP: 65.244.173.75

email me your email address, then I'll email what I've got in bits and pieces.

Just to be Paranoid: Don't post the email address here, case da man is watching.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Sunday, September 21, 2003 12:16:29 AM
IP: 132.170.42.183

Void>> I must admit, the recent lawsuits by the RIAA make me leery of illegally downloading copyrighted material. But that's a judgment call I think we have to make for ourselves. Still, I think it's best to talk about such things discreetly, esp. since Greg Weisman visits here occasionally. (Don't want to put him into an ethical pickle, now!)

Questions worthy of Greg>> Do you think a request to elaborate on the connection between Miranda Wright/Bonkers and Elisa Maza/Goliath would be out of line? I was rather startled when I read that he considered the former direct predecessors of the latter.

JJ "Gregarius" (T)
Orlando, FL
Saturday, September 20, 2003 11:22:49 PM
IP: 65.244.173.75

If Greg's getting pissed off (and I would be if I were him), then perhaps there should be a moederator that reads all the submitted questions, and deletes questions that are redundant, written in a foreign language, or just plain stupid.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Saturday, September 20, 2003 11:14:48 PM
IP: 132.170.42.183

As far as getting eps, while many of them are questionable quality, they are at least watchable. Anyone with a decent internet connection can download them using peer to peer clients. Don't remember if posting links to other sites are allowed, but anyone wanting information on the clients i use, is free to email me
Void - [mwmillerSTL@sbcglobal.net]
Saturday, September 20, 2003 11:00:06 PM
IP: 68.88.35.247

Well, I am also prone to severe self examination and critique. In a way, I can see both sides of the coin..I think peope may not want to take the time to read through the logs of prevously asked questions..I myself spent several hours just reading through the ones pertaining to Owen/Puck and the the smart ass answers ones... But then again..I still took the time to do it, even thought it kept me up till well after three in the mourning. :) So though I realize that that may by a large part of some of what is going on, it is still no excuse...of course, then again, I could be reflecting my own sence of what is right and correct onto other people, when in reallity they are just lazy and or being smart-alics. Now that I think about it, I probably am...after all, People are constantly doing rude things such a putting their feet up on the backs of movie theater seats, even though it is evident this is destructive. :/ Not to mention showing a complete lack of personal honor.
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Saturday, September 20, 2003 11:00:00 PM
IP: 64.221.10.235

Sahyinepu> just the fact that you care to wonder if your question is good enough for Greg speaks volumes. most people don't care about what they ask, they just ask it to ask it. i wonder how many of them ever return to see the answer... this is insane, we need a solution to this mess...
matt
Saturday, September 20, 2003 10:45:02 PM
IP: 216.178.8.73

heh..... Greg's most recent responces on Ask Greg would seem to indicate that he is getting really pissed/tired of all the redundant and stupid questions. :/ I do hope that he doesn't completley give up on the Ask Greg questioning concept. I must admit that there is a lot of information in the questions answered area, but for me it was as simple as going to the areas I thought my question my have been answered already in, such as the DEATH category and s few others I thought might have had what I was looking for. Anyhow, I hope he doesn't completley throw out the concept.
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Saturday, September 20, 2003 09:17:32 PM
IP: 64.221.9.23

Jimmy >>
Tim writes...

Hi mein Name ist tim ich würde gern wissen wo ich alle folgen von disny´s gargoyles bekomme?
------------------------------------------

I don't speak German, but I get the funny feeling it says something like: "Why was Gargoyles cancelled and when will it come back on?"
Besides which, I'm not sure Greg speaks German.

***

After studying the output of Babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/ or click on my name), I think he is asking where he can get eps.

So you were close, Jimmy. *sigh*

* * * * *

Hound of Ulster >>
I seem to recall comments that the mythology was a bit messed up in this ep. Is anyone here knowledgeable enough to comment?

JJ "Gregarius" (T)
Orlando, FL
Saturday, September 20, 2003 07:58:02 PM
IP: 65.244.173.75

Now for my delayed comments on "The Hound of Ulster".

This is an episode that I regularly watch on St. Patrick's Day each year, so it was a bit fresher in my memory than most of the other Avalon World Tour stories. Of course, it's a noteworthy one, since here we first find out about Oberon preparing to hold the Gathering. We also get introduced to the Banshee and Rory (Greg Weisman actually mentioned once that he'd thought about a spin-off involving them, but it never got far enough to make the official "projected spin-offs" list that "Timedancer", "Pendragon", "Bad Guys", and the rest were on.)

It's also noteworthy in that it gives Bronx a major role, something that doesn't happen too often (and indicates in so doing that gargoyle beasts were behind the stories of "phantom dogs" in the British Isles). Actually, it's interesting that Bronx had a relatively minor role among the regulars, since usually in animated cartoons the "animal mascot" winds up being very much in the lead. It's certainly different to see Bronx usually having to stay behind in the clock tower and snooze by Hudson's armchair rather than playing a major role in the gargoyles' adventures.

It's appropriate that gargoyle beasts be the "original" for the "black dogs" of Britain and Ireland, since these creatures were generally portrayed in folklore as having some definitely "gargoyle-ish" qualities; they only appeared at night, were fearsome to behold, and yet often served as protectors rather than as menaces.

Somebody who worked on the episode must have been a "Wizard of Oz" fan, considering that it contains a couple of quotes (if slightly altered ones).

A piece of "Gargoyles Trivia": the Cromm-Cruach (the monstrous form that the Banshee takes on in her fight with Cuchulain) was originally a fearsome demon-god in Irish mythology whom it was extremely dangerous to worship; people offering him sacrifices generally came to alarming ends. Cromm-Cruach's name was also the source for that of Crom, the god worshipped by Conan the Barbarian (Conan's creator, Robert E. Howard, had a certain fondness for taking the names in his Conan stories from ancient history and legend).

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 20, 2003 07:40:23 PM
IP: 171.75.194.46

I wonder what Greg's position on a question like this would be:
----------------------------------------
Tim writes...

Hi mein Name ist tim ich würde gern wissen wo ich alle folgen von disny´s gargoyles bekomme?
------------------------------------------

I don't speak German, but I get the funny feeling it says something like: "Why was Gargoyles cancelled and when will it come back on?"
Besides which, I'm not sure Greg speaks German.

Jimmy
Saturday, September 20, 2003 07:36:39 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

I've been watching the eps as they air on ToonDisney, and have been noting all the mentions of the Amir in eps preceeding "Grief".

When I first watched "Grief" I was more interested in how the ep depict Yinepu/Anubis, as I am a follower of the religion of Ancient Egypt and this particular Name is my divined Parent. Every time I watch it though, I notice more other elements of the show. I personally liked the way Yinepu/Anubis was portrayed by Greg, if only due to the fact that in most every other medium of our culture He is een as an evil diety(Mummy Returns and Stargate to name a few). Though Greg did treat Yinepu as a fey rather than an actual diety, how he chose to treat Him was rather refreshing, though Yinepu's personallity was a bit off in my opinion.

Anyhow, this, and for that matter many of the eps that show either other representations of cultural beliefs and the fey have remained some of my favorite. I often wondered if Greg wasn't in at least some way trying to open people's minds to the ancient traditions and how working with the unseen world can be a bennefit to mankind, rather than the current treatment of the unseen world, which is to try and deny it's existance. Because this seems to me to be a prevalient theme of the Gargoyles saga, to show off other cultures, and in particular, ones that are still very strongly linked to the unseen, and the forces that operate there. And how our interactions with these forces can effect our would very powerfully, either for good or worse.
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Saturday, September 20, 2003 02:54:16 PM
IP: 64.221.8.116

I'd say that I stopped clearing questions just before the Gathering Journals, although I can't be certain at the moment. And there is a lot of trash among the as yet uncleared ones, including ideas masquerading as questions as well as questions that get asked far too often. At times, the queue reminds me of the saying "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something."

I watched my tape of "The Hound of Ulster" last night, but I'm saving my comments on it for this evening when I'll have more time.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 20, 2003 06:42:59 AM
IP: 171.75.194.56

When I first saw "Grief" I wondered if it was the same Emir.

Did anyone realise that Goliath & Co. Would meet up with Dingo after Hyena stated that Dingo would be "sorry he missed this?"

I love how Goliath and Angela can still tackle Jackle (no pun intended). He doesn't know that they age at half speed. I love to see these two old feebs tackle him.

I also love how Jackle usurps the power. Classic.

Later~

Battle Beast
CanadaSaturday, September 20, 2003 01:20:47 AM
IP: 142.59.111.33

Todd - Just out of curiosity, have you gotten to the point of clearing the gathering journals submitted to Ask Greg?

I'm asking because I'm curious about how many questions submitted since July have been . . good questions to ask and if any elimination of questions has occurred.

DPH
AR, USA
Friday, September 19, 2003 11:29:01 PM
IP: 204.94.193.26

hehehe I feel so silly...I got curious and decided to look at the Image thingy to the right of the color thingy...I have none selected for both..but low and behold, when you scroll down on the image thingy, you get a nice selection of pretty pics to choose from.

Could you ever put up your own image though?
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Friday, September 19, 2003 10:29:09 PM
IP: 64.221.11.225

Vashkoda, thanks for the link. :)

Matt. To be honest, I am surprised Greg comes in here. I have thus far asked one question, pertaining to Grief and the character of Anubis, etc. I hope I didn't cross any no no's with that one. I also realized shortly after asking that it was taking him more than a year to answer questions. I also noticed while reading through the archives how often people ask the same questions over and over..though I couldn't help but get the feeling that with regards to the infamous, "what did Titania whisper to Fox", that this is more a game of seeing if one could woo Greg into answering the question with a creative way of asking.
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Friday, September 19, 2003 10:25:10 PM
IP: 64.221.11.225

ugh, has anyone looked at the three most recently submitted questions today? this is just depressing... if Greg answers two questions a day and only every tenth question is a half way decent one than thats only one or two good questions a week....
how frsutrating/sad/annoying/funny does this has to get...

matt
Friday, September 19, 2003 09:47:38 PM
IP: 207.230.48.23

VASHKODA - That could be. Certainly he has had all too many questions of the "why was the show cancelled?" variety. They're a lot more annoying than even the "What did Fox whisper in Titania's ear?" questions.

One thing about the all-too-often asked questions: does anybody agree with me that after the Gathering 2003, it's become almost impossible to look the same way at the questions about who would be Lexington's mate? (Of course, those of you who've been here for a long time may remember my joke that the ideal name for Lexington's mate would be Concord.)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 19, 2003 07:21:49 PM
IP: 171.75.244.252

Hm, I wonder if this means Greg's finally lost patience with the newbs.
Vash
Friday, September 19, 2003 03:49:47 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Thought I remembered that from somewhere. Found it in the forums...

"Greg Weisman sent me an e-mail regarding the development of a new Ask Greg system. Below is his response and the catalyst for the creation of this forum.


1. I'm not in favor of a room wipe. People have been waiting. Others have hit (and hit and hit and hit) and probably run, but some people with legitimate questions and comments have been waiting.

2. Any solution MUST be newbie-friendly, or at least as newbie-friendly as the mess we're in now.

3. The idea of a committee screening questions is appealing with the following caveats:
a. Every member of the committee must be extremely diplomatic. More diplomatic than I am even. If you're going to represent me, then I can't risk you scaring people off or pissing them off. Yes, some questions are annoying as hell, but as a committee member you'd need to supress your desire to point that out. Assume every question is a gem. Even if you know it's not.
c. Every answer not given personally by me, needs to be clearly labelled as such.
d. My preference would be for every committee answer to be a direct quote from the archives or FAQ. That is, still my words. And preferably, not taken too much out of context. Whether this is done with links or cut & paste, I don't know.

4. I don't mind suspending the question-asked function for the time being, until we get a handle on this. But once I start rambling on eps again, I'd want people to be able to respond with comments.

5. I love the idea of redesigning the main ASK GREG page to BOLDLY point out the inevitable delay and backlog of simply submitting a question to me, without utilizing other resources first (i.e. the comment room, the faq, the archives, etc.).

6. All this is moot without Gore. This is HIS site. If volunteers can help him, that's great. But only if he wants that help. I'm not in favor of anything that Gore does not approve of.


I welcome anyone who would like to help me out. <a href="mailto:eric@s8.org?subject=helping out">E-mail me</a> if you'd like to contribute!

And always remember that with every post you make to this forum, you're also helping out. So please keep posting!"

Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Friday, September 19, 2003 03:04:14 PM
IP: 128.113.147.229

Did anyone copy and keep my six-point plan for fixing ASK GREG? If so could you copy and paste it back here? I can't remember half of the points (though I remember there were six).
Greg Weisman
Friday, September 19, 2003 01:12:15 PM
IP: 66.81.104.108

Todd - <<Watched my tape of "Grief" last night. I sometimes wonder how many people, before that episode first came out, were expecting the Emir to show up on stage someday. I know that I wasn't.>> I wasn't expecting him to show up either, but after the episode I did expect him to return. So much of the world tour seemed to be about introducing new characters that I automatically assumed goliath was wrong and that the Emir would be back. I like Greg's let-him-be-with-his-son plan a lot more :)


Graymonk - [mmckinnongra@hotmail.com]
Friday, September 19, 2003 07:07:36 AM
IP: 198.164.140.136

Watched my tape of "Grief" last night. I sometimes wonder how many people, before that episode first came out, were expecting the Emir to show up on stage someday. I know that I wasn't.

A couple of funny moments involving Coyote in this one. The first is when Hyena asks him "Want to make sparks fly?" Coyote replies in a not-too-interested tone of voice, "Later, perhaps", and walks off, with Hyena looking a little annoyed. (I've still got to admit, I find Hyena's choice of people to lust after a little disturbing - but then again, just about everything that Hyena does can easily be considered disturbing.)

The other is when the Pack are debating what to do about Goliath and Co., and Coyote comments that while he'd gladly join in and kill them, since Xanatos hadn't expected them to show up in Egypt and consequently hadn't given Coyote any instructions about what to do about them, "until I get further orders, they get to live."

WOLF: I'm giving the orders!

COYOTE: You don't qualify.

Wolf promptly growls.

(I found myself suddenly wondering if there was a little echo there of "Upgrade" where Wolf and Coyote were arguing over who got to lead the Pack and Coyote won. Maybe we'll find out when Greg does his ramble on "Grief".)

I sometimes wonder what "Grief" would have been like, incidentally, if Greg Weisman had realized while making it, rather than afterwards, that the Pack wouldn't be able to kill the gargoyles and Elisa while Anubis was imprisoned and so had included a scene of them trying and failing.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 19, 2003 07:02:45 AM
IP: 171.75.194.2

Sahyinepu> Click my name to go to a page listing all the available CR images.
Vashkoda
Friday, September 19, 2003 01:11:05 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

About the "purity" comment: the UK, particularly, southern England has had a big influx of immigrants from SW Asia (all those countries that end in -stan). That's been causing some problems in the last decade.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Friday, September 19, 2003 01:00:36 AM
IP: 132.170.41.43

Vashkoda...thanks fo he input..where do you go to see suck selevtion of pics? Are there more customized pics of Puck? He is one of my favorite characters.
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:07:48 PM
IP: 64.221.11.74

Galvatrius> Welcome to the CR.

Sahyinepu> All the CR pics here were made by Gorebash, the guy who maintains this site. He took the time to black out the backgrounds of each screencapture selected.

Vashkoda
Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:48:37 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

hey Void...where did you get that pic of Puck? It looks just like this pic on this link http://www.shadowrider.org/puck/puck7.jpg only the background is balcked out and there are no chans. Did you or someone else alter it, or is this evidence of some sort of animation conspiracy?
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Thursday, September 18, 2003 09:48:24 PM
IP: 64.221.11.74

Hi all! Im new to the Gargoyle fandom. Ive been a fan for years but I havent been able to find a forum or chat to talk to other fans until now. I love the series. It has got to be the best written series for Disney and one of the best cartoons ever produced. My favorite saga was the Avalon saga with the Archmage. The toys were little left to desired but I still have em. Just sayin hi.
Galvatrius - [urbanmiracle718@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY, USa
Thursday, September 18, 2003 09:41:08 PM
IP: 24.90.35.199

Hello all,
I was giving Bionicle: Mask of Light a look-see and I nearly squirted my soda when I saw Greg Weisman on the story credits. Overall its a good movie, a definate rent. It's got a definate Fellowship of the Ring vibe going through it. Just thought I'd share.

Taleweaver
Thursday, September 18, 2003 09:13:32 PM
IP: 24.205.177.107

I was visiting a bookstore today and spotted a book about Shakespeare in popular culture. I looked through it for a bit and noticed that it briefly mentioned "Gargoyles" and how Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, and Puck appeared in it (though not going into the details) - alongside a few other such cases as a character named Caliban appearing in the "X-Men" comic books.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, September 18, 2003 07:04:28 PM
IP: 171.75.195.89

Thanks enigma! thats mainly what i was looking for...nice to know thier going to release them.....though its frustrating i gotta wait one more year, especially with me not having access to cable :) Guess i'll just have to be satisfied with my downloaded eps for the time being, and try not to pace too much ^_^
Void
Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:13:48 AM
IP: 68.88.37.58

Thanks for the info to all who replied... I will look about at comic book stores here locally first, then try e-bay. :)
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:12:02 PM
IP: 64.221.8.19

SILVERBOLT - I think that what the guy meant by "Keep England pure" was "racial purity" (which is kind of late since England was already racially mixed anyway, with Celts, Saxons, Danes, and Normans already intermingled in its make-up long ago).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 06:47:50 PM
IP: 171.75.195.81


Sheltie> "I watched my tape of "M.I.A." last evening. An appropriate day for it, actually, since September 15 is Battle of Britain Day (it commemmorates the Germans' last daytime bombing raid)." - all hail the boys in blue.

*Salutes those brave, brave men.

Actually M.I.A. was on Toon Disney today and I have to say it really brightened my day, I really needed a good laugh. It wasn't the plot or anything, that was great and it was interesting how Goliath went back in time to find out what happened and ended up causing the problem anyway. Lol! But the reason I laughed was because of how many times Goliath saved Griff's butt in an attempt to save his life and then when they got back to the future, Griff nearly got hit by a car! Those British accents creeped me a bit though, probably because I've never actually heard anyone talk like that (this is the modern day Britian, not the oldern day one, because things were different then.)

The dog fight scenes were excellent though and really was a high point in the British history books.

My only complaint (next to the accents) had to be the muggers though, and their looks, plus the way one of them talked about 'keeping England pure.' Personally with english guys that looked like punk band rejects running around beating people up I'd question what he meant by 'pure' duffing people up? Being racist? Oh yes I'd be so proud to be British if that's the case!

And finally the best bit was Leo and Una admitting their mistakes AND helping the humans out at last, and the way that the attacked those muggers in front of all those people makes me hope the Brits accept them with open arms(the none muggers that is.). Uh, even though we DID smash them up a thousand years ago...

silverbolt
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 04:46:58 PM
IP: 213.122.241.215

Void>> Unfortunately when it comes to Gargoyle videos only the movie and the first eight episodes of the first season were released on VHS. The good news is that (supposedly) Disney will be releasing Gargoyles on DVD (how many episodes and which ones will be released is currently unknown) sometime next year to coencide with the 10th anniversary of the show. Hope that helps you out and answers your question.
Enigma
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 02:24:13 PM
IP: 24.118.65.70

Nickerous> ah.... well, i would rather DVD of course, they last longer. Surprised Disney hasn't put them out, after all, a lot of animated shows have put out entire seasons. As far as homemade quality goes, iknow where your coming from. the eps i've downloaded from the net are decent quality, but you have to watch them in certain sized windows, do great on the comp, but i'd hate to see them on my TV. Thanks for the advice tho, i'll check it out. Vids after all, are better than nothing :)
Void
St. Louis
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:20:41 PM
IP: 66.143.141.253

Void> eBay usually has Gargoyles on tape. They also have some dvd (although they are really cracking down on that right now), but I'd advise staying away from homemade dvds. Most have 12 to 15 episodes per disc and the quality suffers greatly when that much info is crammed into one disc. I'm making some myself, but I'm only putting 3 episodes per disc to maximize the quality.

Comics> Again, I'd start at eBay. I found a full set (all 11 comics) for $15 a couple months ago. Most people sell them seprately for about $3 to $5 an issue.

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:25:16 AM
IP: 66.220.76.119

Good Morning!
Just dropping in before I head off to Orkney this evening - not finished packing yet.

Todd> "I don't know how many people here have been reading Greg's report on his visit to Scotland in the first week of September at "Ask Greg", but I'd like to recommend it. It's great reading. In today's instalment, he included quite a bit about the Stone of Destiny (which he actually got to see while at Edinburgh)."
I had to laugh at his passing places comment - a common sight up here so you don't notice how unusal they might seem to anyone else. ( Which would explain why so many tourists have problems negotiating them!)

"I've sometimes wondered (particularly recently) what sort of response the Battle of Britain memorial to Griff and Goliath must have received from Londoners once it was built (I'm assuming that Leo and Una were the ones responsible for it), considering how until "Hunter's Moon" almost everybody believed that gargoyles were mythical creatures rather than flesh-and-blood beings. I can just picture somebody staring at it bewilderedly and saying "What are they going to raise next? A World War One monument to the Angels of Mons?"
I guess they would have accepted them quite easily, since they'd have a similar appearance to creatures featured on many coats of arms and standards. The royal crest, after all, does feature a lion & a unicorn. And no doubt the pilots would have come back with tales of these winged warriors aiding them in the battle - regarding them as guardian angels. These pilots came back heroes & I would think their stories would become another local legend. I think they'd be regarded in a similar way to the selkie or the trows in shetland. Accepted as real, though they're not - or are they?

"I watched my tape of "M.I.A." last evening. An appropriate day for it, actually, since September 15 is Battle of Britain Day (it commemmorates the Germans' last daytime bombing raid)." - all hail the boys in blue. My parents are both ex-RAF corporals, so i particularly enjoyed this ep, since they've always made a point in teaching us to recognise the significance of the event and have pride in those who risked and gave their lives to save the country.

Sahyinepu> yeah, check ebay. I got issues 1-4 in mint condition for about £2-3. And that was just the UK site - the US one ought to have them come up more often.

Matt> "had my wisdom teeth pulled today and not feeling great, hope everyone else is feeling better than me!"
- you have my symapthy. I have to get a couple of teeth out at some point cos something (still don't know what yet) has attacked them and they've fallen to bits (too) rapidly. It was bad enough we had no dentist available for months, then when we did i had to wait nearly a year for an appointment that i could actually make (or when the dentist wasn't away on holiday - grr!). Hope yours are better soon, mine'll just have to keep on waiting.

I better go get my bags finished. I'm going away with the college - 1st year inductions & 'sightseeing' for the rest of us. We're hoping to get in trips to Maes Howe, the stones at Stenness & Brodgar, Churchill Barriers, the tomb of the eagles, Skara Brae again, and various others we missed last year.
Bye!

Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 06:18:24 AM
IP: 213.122.12.46

Todd> "It would be interesting to know how Leo and Una felt about Griff, only a few weeks after his return, leaving London again, this time with King Arthur."
i once asked greg about why Griff left so soon after the fast forward through time and if Leo and Una had anything to do with it. he responded that a large reason for his decision to stay with Arthur is that he felt awkward being out of his time with his Clan, particularly awkward was seeing his old love and old best friend not only older, but romantically together! you can sypathize with him not wanting to stay home when you think about that...

Gargoyles Comics> as far as i know, all the comics cost $1.50 off the newstands originally, but today IF you can find them on eBay, they tend to go for much more. it took me awhile to get all 11 issues, and i certaintly did not get them for $1.50 each!

ugh, gotta go lay down, had my wisdom teeth pulled today and not feeling great, hope everyone else is feeling better than me!

matt
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 01:42:19 AM
IP: 207.230.48.83

Hey guys....newcomer to the comment room here :) though been a visitor off an on to the site for a couple years (been a while since was a regular, but thats not the point at all is it? *L*)

anyway.....I've managed to download quite a few gargoyle episodes off the internet...but i was wondering if anyone knows where i can find gargoyle episodes on tape, or even better, on DVD? Most places i ask, look at me dumbly and point me at this old 70's horror flick....

I know gargoyles still has a strong following despite fading from the mainstream (thus how i got the episodes i DO have), and i was wondering if anyone had any luck and could offer suggestions where i can go, or if thier out there

Void - [mwmillerSTL@sbcglobal.net]
St. Louis, MO, USA
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:38:57 AM
IP: 66.143.141.253

Oh...how hard is it to find Gargoyles comic books, and what should they cost if you can find them?
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 05:14:20 PM
IP: 64.221.8.109

Do you guys review certain eps? I think I remember seeing a website with different eps on it to watch and then discuss, but cannot now remember where that website was.
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 05:13:10 PM
IP: 64.221.8.109

I watched my tape of "M.I.A." last evening. An appropriate day for it, actually, since September 15 is Battle of Britain Day (it commemmorates the Germans' last daytime bombing raid). Some observations.

I've sometimes wondered (particularly recently) what sort of response the Battle of Britain memorial to Griff and Goliath must have received from Londoners once it was built (I'm assuming that Leo and Una were the ones responsible for it), considering how until "Hunter's Moon" almost everybody believed that gargoyles were mythical creatures rather than flesh-and-blood beings. I can just picture somebody staring at it bewilderedly and saying "What are they going to raise next? A World War One monument to the Angels of Mons?"

The band of racist thugs chasing the man at the beginning of the episode shout out to him "You can run, but you can't hide!" That's a line that I've heard quite a lot (it's definitely reached cliche status, in fact), and I wonder if anybody knows where it originated.

The London gargoyles certainly seem to have become very "Anglicized". For one thing, Leo and Una's profession is that of shopkeepers, which fits in astonishingly well with Napoleon's famous description of the English as "a nation of shopkeepers". (The same shopkeepers, of course, who produced Lord Nelson and the Duke of Wellington.) It seems that Boney was more correct than he knew when he said it, if even the gargoyles in England are shopkeepers. And they also drink tea.

One of my favorite lines in the episode is when Leo and Una argue to Goliath that "the Nazis are a human problem" and Goliath replies that "in my experience, human problems become gargoyle problems." It's something that I've said before, I know, but a close examination of the series has shown it to be true. Hakon's greed for the possibilities of plunder in Castle Wyvern (even before he knew that there were gargoyles there) led to the Wyvern massacre. Constantine's decision to marry Princess Katharine to strengthen his claim to the Scottish throne led to the eggs being in danger and the subsequent flight to Avalon. Duncan and Canmore's rivalry over the succession to the Scottish throne with Macbeth wound up involving Demona and her new clan in a most emphatic way. And so on. Even the Quarrymen can be seen as ultimately a case of a human problem becoming a gargoyle problem, since Castaway's real reason for pursuing Goliath and his clan is that he shot his older brother Jason, paralyzed him so that he can never walk again, and rather than take responsibility for his actions, placed the blame on the gargoyles, attacking them as a whipping-boy.

It would be interesting to know how Leo and Una felt about Griff, only a few weeks after his return, leaving London again, this time with King Arthur. I don't think that it was as bad, though. For one thing, a lot of the anguish that they felt about Griff during the past fifty years came from the fact that they didn't know what had happened to him - he had just disappeared. This time, they presumably know where he is (Greg mentioned that Griff called them up long-distance from New York, and we can assume that he'd find other ways to keep them regularly updated during his travels with Arthur).

There's a lot else that I like about the series: the London setting, the time loop (which is a fun one, once you figure it out), Douglas Bader's response to the gargoyles (the thumbs up, in particular), and one final touch - the modern-day menace that the London gargs handle at the end being a group of racists attacking immigrants, which forms a good parallel to the Nazis' own racist outlook.

I'd like to read Greg's ramble on it when it comes out (one revelation of his at "Ask Greg" that I particularly found interesting was that he'd planned to have Goliath take part in the Battle of Britain somehow from the early stages of the series, when he was first inserted in it). Pity that it probably won't be for a while longer.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 07:40:16 AM
IP: 171.75.194.17

Hehe, Red Mage mentioned "Gargoyles".

Cassie> You don't have to announce your place for it to get counted. Therefore, you are seventh. Not that it makes any difference. =p

Nickerous> Maybe you should rent the "Nightmare Before Christmas" video and copy the cool "Gargoyles" preview.

Sahyinepu> As I recall, the attendance has ranged from 80 to 350. Lately it's been at around 200. There are indeed dealers, though I'd say the number ranges from 3 to 10 (just based off memory, and I've only been to three).

Vashkoda
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 02:16:24 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

OK, Sahyinepu, I think you took the cursor from the comment box (did you hit tab?), and then you hit the enter key.
JJ "Gregarius" (T) - [Nahnah@nana.nah:P!]
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 01:16:43 AM
IP: 65.244.173.75

...
JJ "Gregarius" (T)
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 01:12:47 AM
IP: 65.244.173.75

I hit shirt..hehehe I hit Shift ... the shift key. It would seem I hit, or don't hit, a lot of keys on accident..which would seem to be the problem...but the bloody machine has never gone on ahead and posted something.
Sahyinepu
Monday, September 15, 2003 10:29:32 PM
IP: 64.221.11.188

JJ "Gregarius"... I am on Internet Explorer...I think I hit shirt on accident, not sure. I recently upgraded to OS X, and it does things a bit differnt.

I have a few questions. How many here have been to the Gargoyles Con, and does anyone know how many people attend it year to year, and if it has dealers?

I have been to Bot Con several times, and just recently attended Anime-fest in Dallas. I have enjoyed both, but saw less of things at anime-fest as I was a dealer there.
Sahyinepu
Monday, September 15, 2003 10:27:57 PM
IP: 64.221.11.188

"Can you fly?" >>
*******SPOILER ALERT**********
Hey, John Madden couldn't say anything like that. The question *is* a valid question after all.

Does everyone know what I'm talking about?

JJ "Gregarius" (T) - [Nahnah@nana.nah:P!]
Orlando, FL
Monday, September 15, 2003 10:03:24 PM
IP: 65.244.173.75

I don't know how many people here have been reading Greg's report on his visit to Scotland in the first week of September at "Ask Greg", but I'd like to recommend it. It's great reading. In today's instalment, he included quite a bit about the Stone of Destiny (which he actually got to see while at Edinburgh). He also mentioned briefly seeing Birnam Wood.

And he followed that up with a great reply to one of those all-too-many frivolous questions clogging the queue, in this case "Can you fly?" (I won't say what his answer to that one was; you'll have to see it for yourselves.)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, September 15, 2003 07:36:08 PM
IP: 171.75.194.37

Howdy gang.

Normally, I'm not online at midnight on a Sunday, but, I had just gotten home with one of those "deskless" trackball mouse things and just had to try it out on my laptop. Very cool. I'm happy I decided to buy it.

DVD> I have the next dvd ready to set up, but I haven't started on it yet. Still looking good on the video quality, but I'm running out of extras. The only things left are a few commercials. I may start putting movie previews on them. Kinda like a "other great titles you'll enjoy!" thing you see on Disney dvds (well, touchstone releases anyway).

later peoples.

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Monday, September 15, 2003 03:34:25 PM
IP: 66.220.76.143

Sahyinepu>> Awww... you hurt my PowerBook's feelings! :P

Anyway, what browser are you using? I'm using Safari, and I don't have that many problems. However, I do find it helpful to write posts in TextEdit, and then copy them into the posting form.

As for the "roll call", when the comment page resets at midnight, Monday, many of us try to be one of the first 10 posters for the new week. A veteran would be able to tell you more about it.

JJ "Gregarius" (T) - [Nahnah@nana.nah:P!]
Orlando, FL
Monday, September 15, 2003 01:31:27 PM
IP: 65.244.173.75

should have, some things I shouldn't.. Stupid Mac...I wonder what button I hit to make that happen?

Anhow, what is this? Roll call?
Sahyinepu
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:40:26 PM
IP: 64.221.9.147

Actually, I said lost of things...some things I
Sahyinepu
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:39:22 PM
IP: 64.221.9.147

11th in the name of being late!
Graymonk - [mckinnongra@hotmail.com]
Monday, September 15, 2003 11:40:20 AM
IP: 198.164.140.184

Tenth in the name of the Fay!

>^,,^<

Mooncat
Monday, September 15, 2003 10:54:31 AM
IP: 68.102.0.23

9th !
Babs
Philly, Pa
Monday, September 15, 2003 09:31:40 AM
IP: 68.80.221.74

8!
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, September 15, 2003 09:19:04 AM
IP: 132.170.47.165

7th ?
goliath_994
Monday, September 15, 2003 08:05:52 AM
IP: 24.243.105.230

Sahyinepu didn't say anything so...Sixth!

Have a great day all!

Cassie
Monday, September 15, 2003 06:50:21 AM
IP: 172.167.246.82

????? God damn, I need to go to bed.
Sahyinepu
Monday, September 15, 2003 04:32:18 AM
IP: 64.221.12.47

Fifth!
Demona Taina
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:34:21 AM
IP: 196.42.28.100

REALLY quick!

4th!

matt
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:01:49 AM
IP: 216.178.8.49

damn, you kids are quick!

3rd!

matt
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:01:21 AM
IP: 216.178.8.49

Number 3...and counting

*Hugs & Handshakes around the room*

Wingless
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:00:48 AM
IP: 24.102.127.129

1st or 2nd, don't really care. :p
Leo
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:00:23 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

1st!!!
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Monday, September 15, 2003 12:00:11 AM
IP: 66.220.76.157