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Gargoyles

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Comments for the week ending June 14, 2004

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Saw Harry Potter today. The best one so far, IMO.



*SPOILER* Love the whole time travel thing. And the white stag. That was neat. It wasn't until Harry and Hermine were nearly to the pond that I figured out who the White Stag was, so kudos for more twists and turns.*SPOILER*

Siren
Sunday, June 13, 2004 08:18:05 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

Watched my tape of "Enter Macbeth" this afternoon, but I'll wait until tomorrow to give my comments on it, when the room will be cleared.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 13, 2004 07:15:44 PM
IP: 4.244.18.62

Speaking of movies, has anyone seen "Chronicles of Riddick" yet? In my honest opinion it wasn't as spectacular as I had hoped compared to its prequel, "Pitch Black", which was excellent as sci-fi film that deserved a bit more credit.

However, I just wanted to note, that Keith David (who had a much larger role in Pitch Black) has an excellent scene in Chronicles where he is talking to Riddick, and his voice tone is very reminiscent of how we have come to know Goliath talking in that deep, low voice filled with attention. I've seen other films with Keith in them since Gargoyles, and though I knew it was same person who voiced for Goliath, none so much as this scene made me think of it as like watching an episode of Gargoyles. I really pictured Goliath talking to Riddick. ;-)

**SPOILERS**
It's just a shame his role was short-lived. I was really hoping when I noticed his appearance in the previews that he would have had another full part in this film as well. *sigh*
**END SPOILERS**

Jim R. - [jim@dialwforwarp.com]
Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:59:22 PM
IP: 69.34.104.214

I have worked for 3 movie theaters in my time. Two were very old theaters (25-30 years old). Both of those had curtains. In one theater, the curtains were broken and were not used. The other one though, we used them on a daily basis....until they broke. No one ever bothered to fix the curtains after they broke.

I went to work for a new theater in 2000. It was brand new as they were finishing construction on opening night. Very nice place. Stadium seating, dts/digital sound, brand new projectors, the works.....except curtains. It's a shame too. I really liked to watch the crowd get excited when the curtains opened.

Nickerous - [nickerous]
SC, USA
Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:47:50 AM
IP: 66.220.74.58

Curtains at the movies: I have only seen it once at a movie theater and they kept them drawn back. It was an old theater and still had a mini stage to it. I believe the great theaters in New York does still have theirs.

I imagine sales are the key force as to if they will continue with any series, and I am sure the small group of fans will certainly purchase the DVD.

I was thinking though, would the original cast come back to voice? I hope so but I know those stars are busy with other engagements. Just a thought.

Lily Doll - [lilmidnightlily@yahoo.com]
Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:14:10 AM
IP: 67.35.196.200

Uff, long time no see...

Soo, seems as if the DVD will head stores around autumn... HAVE HAVE HAVE to get it as soon as it comes out!!!

I want to discuss a bit further what you think, if great sales COULD make Disney to bring back our beloved saga or not...

Geez, if I only think how I would sit in front of my TV, with GARGOYLES SEASON 3 starting... yuck...

BTW, can anybody help me on "NOUGHT"? Who/What is he???

The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Saturday, June 12, 2004 07:01:47 AM
IP: 217.245.19.116

HI NICK!!! Have a cookie! *hands over a plate of Mint Oreos*

As to your question, it was many years ago... around '96 I think, but that project ahs been shelved indefiantly, more or less.

Did anyone see Reagan's funeral? Bery touching, I must say.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CANADAFriday, June 11, 2004 11:50:49 PM
IP: 142.59.132.116

i forgot to introduce my self,my name is nick, im a long time fan of the show ever since i wacth the first episode
nasth2007 - [nasth2007@msn.com]
Maine, USA
Friday, June 11, 2004 08:11:13 PM
IP: 66.231.221.111

how long ago did touchstone start thinking of making a live action movie of the gargoyles and is it going to be made?
nasth2007 - [nasth2007@msn.com]
Maine, USA
Friday, June 11, 2004 07:53:08 PM
IP: 66.231.221.111

ABBY - Thanks for posting. (I'm a bit surprised that only one person posted here since my "Deadly Force" post last night. Traffic here is really dwindling - must be the approaching weekend.)

As best as I know, "Showdown" was a creation of "Deadly Force", and not a real movie. At least, that's what Greg Weisman indicated.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, June 11, 2004 07:51:21 PM
IP: 4.244.18.139

Todd, thanks for your comments on "Deadly Force." This has long been one of my favorite episodes, for a variety of reasons. It "breaks the mold" of animated shows (as many have pointed out), and it is a defining moment in Broadway's life as well as being very significant in shaping his future relationship with Elisa (and I am one of those odd people who like Broadway).

(I watched "The Silver Falcon" last night and like the continuity touches from "Deadly Force": Elisa now hides and locks her gun).

You referred to the movie "Showdown" that Broadway sees. I don't know if this refers to a real movie or not, but the Internet Movie Database lists several Westerns by that name that predate "Gargoyles." I haven't seen any of them so I cannot draw any conclusions. However, the scene Broadway sees reminds me of Clint Eastwood-style Westerns.

You referred to the curtain that goes up in the theater, and mentioned the organ playing when you went to see Harry Potter. I don't know of any theaters here that have curtains (that go up) or organs, for that matter. (I think seeing the curtain go up lends a sort of nostalgic touch to the episode).

Abby
Minn, MN
Friday, June 11, 2004 11:40:02 AM
IP: 161.225.1.12

Z - I find myself reminded, by your remark about what could have happened off-stage, of a certain Christine Morgan fanfic....

Watched my tape of "Deadly Force" today. Definitely one of the biggies in "Gargoyles".

One thing that stood out to me this time was the curtain in the movie theatre going up as the movie's about to start. Broadway was definitely going to a posh place. The movie theatre that I go to most often these days (the one in the Chase Park Plaza in the Central West End of St. Louis) doesn't have a curtain (so far as I know) - though it does have a small electric organ just below the screen. The last time that I was there (last Friday, to see the premiere of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban") one of the staff actually sat down at the organ while we were waiting for the movie and played a number of tunes on it (such as "If I Were a Rich Man" and "Sunrise, Sunset" from "Fiddler on the Roof"), to the approval of the audience. Does anybody know if they still have curtains for the screen in movie theatres?

You've got to admire Owen in this ep. He shows himself very capable, fighting off one of Dracon's henchmen and taking his gas mask, and then proceeds to do whatever he can to recover the stolen guns, even posing as a buyer. Xanatos certainly made the right choice in picking a lifetime of service from Owen over a wish from Puck. (Indeed, Owen really stands out after all those "bungling sidekicks" that conventional cartoon villains get so often saddled with.)

A lot of introductions here: Tony Dracon, Glasses, Captain Chavez, Elisa's family, Cagney, and our first views of the clock tower and Elisa's apartment. Between that and the drama of Elisa getting shot by Broadway, it really makes this episode stand out.

(In light of Greg's remark that the one dishonest thing about the episode was Elisa surviving, but how he had to keep her alive because he couldn't have her die yet, I've sometimes wondered what would have happened if Elisa *had* died. It definitely wouldn't have been good for the clan, who would have lost their only human friend in the modern world. And the consequences for Broadway would be truly terrible.)

One of my favorite bits (in a dark and twisted way): Goliath being told by Owen about Elisa being shot and that she might die just as the sun's coming up, so that he turns to stone before he can do anything but stare at Owen in horror. Can you imagine what his stone sleep must have been like that day? (Actually, I'm not certain that I want to.)

I like the ending, with Goliath and Broadway stopping by to visit Elisa, and Goliath gently telling her to sleep - followed by he and Broadway roosting outside her window in stone form.

I'd like to know more about "Showdown", a supposedly "new Western", being shot in black-and-white. Were the gargoyles calling it "new" in the relative sense (a la Shakespeare being a new writer from their perspective in "Enter Macbeth")? Or was it deliberately made that way for artistic reasons?

I can remember one thing; I was really stunned by the revelation that Elisa had been shot, the first time that I saw this episode. One point where they make it all the clearer that it's not your typical Disney cartoon.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 10, 2004 09:16:19 PM
IP: 4.244.12.246

Temptation- That was one of my favorite episodes. I think the way Demona would casually touch Brooklyn was certainly part of the convincing. It was pure psychology. Demona proved she is very intelligent, especially when it comes to manipulation. And I think everything that Demona was saying, Brooklyn thought about such things now and then. Demona talking frankly about it and showing him only solidified his thoughts.

I also remember my first thoughts in Awakenings when Demona told Goliath, "I have a name too, the humans gave it to me long ago. I am Demona.". Up until then, Demona said she was under the sleep spell. It confused me throughly when she said that, because I still thought she was under the sleep spell. (may I also add, I missed some of Awakenings, so I missed the scenes of Demona in the shadows in Xanatos' office). So I thought she got the name Demona before she even met Goliath. The more I watched of the show, the more I learned. And seeing reruns of Awakenings didn't hurt either

Siren
Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:59:21 AM
IP: 65.33.112.117

I always thought of Elisa handing it back... letting Xanatos know that she knows who it belongs to. A slap in the face at how the plan did not succeed, if he had any part of it.

Demona has a way of curling up to Brooklyn, who is sympathic to her cause. It's lonely being the only gargoyles left. Who wouldn't think that they should stick together. Of course, the seduction of Demona helps him along.

Brooklyn probably had a lot of his own ideas on how things would be if Demona's plan worked. But now he has a severe hate... which I think could be only as severe with a broken heart.

Lily Doll
Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:47:36 AM
IP: 67.35.196.226

Temptation -
I find it a bit strange that the Grimorum ends up back in Xanatos's possession after this episode. Why would Elisa decide to return the Grimorum to Xanatos rather than keep it in a safer place? It is legally Xanatos's property, but I would think that Elisa would disregard that fact in light of how he might potentially find a dangerous use for it.

I've always wondered if some things happened off screen between Brooklyn and Demona in this ep. I just kind of get that feeling by the way she wraps him around her finger so easily. She touches him several times on the shoulder and on the beak, which seems to help sway his uncertainty about whether or not to buy in to what she is saying.

Peace

Z
Thursday, June 10, 2004 09:20:39 AM
IP: 67.66.158.173

PAUL - I suppose that it slipped my mind in the general writing - or maybe I simply didn't have anything new to say about it.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 10, 2004 07:08:25 AM
IP: 4.244.12.6

Todd, good review but you forgot to mention about how clever Elisa was in the way she worked around the spell cast on Goliath.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:11:31 AM
IP: 68.220.44.212

Watched my tape of "Temptation" today.

Some elements that stand out to me:

The bit where Brooklyn zooms off on his new motorcycle, Broadway and Lexington are cheering him on, and then Broadway suddenly says, "Wait a minute! Don't we get our turns?" (And, unfortunately, in light of what happened to the bike, they never will.)

The animators cheat a little in having Demona veiled by shadow in the first bit, yet whenever Brooklyn is standing next to her, or where she was standing just a moment ago, he can be seen clearly.

We get a strong hint about just how complicated magic is in the Gargoyles Universe when Demona describes the spell for turning Goliath into a zombie as complex, when the incantation only consists of a few simple words. Evidently, the complexity lies in what accompanies the words, such as hand gestures, concentration, and correct pronunciation (the last reminds me of Hermione Granger lecturing her classmates on the correct way to say "Wingardium Leviosa").

I might add that I like the little flash that comes from the Grimorum when Demona closes it.

This is another one of those episodes that indicates how far-from-typical of Disney "Gargoyles" is. Just look at what Demona shows Brooklyn: domestic quarrels and the aftermath of a murder scene! How often do you see those in a Disney cartoon?

Demona now comes out and reveals that she wasn't in stone sleep all along (confirming the hints in "Awakening").

Another part that I really like is the scenes at the Cloisters, especially when Brooklyn enthusiastically describes them to Goliath as "like the world that we came from". It certainly was appropriate for them to visit that location in New York.

One of the best animation touches is at the end, when we see the sun rising and Elisa shielding her eyes from it as she holds the Grimorum. I like the play of light and shadow there.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, June 9, 2004 06:51:22 PM
IP: 4.244.12.82

GO BLUES!!!!!


thats all i will say... : )

matt
Wednesday, June 9, 2004 01:13:15 AM
IP: 207.230.48.56

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.> Don't start with me, because this rabid hockey fan is bloomin' peed off that the Flames lost!!! (I can get off into a big rant here, but I won't, because this is a G rated forum.)

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CANADATuesday, June 8, 2004 11:11:59 PM
IP: 142.59.132.116

Xanatos has to be my favorite character, and simply because of the mystery of his ideas. What is he planning exactly?

He has his faults, has some morals, but always sly and thinking. As for his plans with all the things he creates... who knows. If he perfected his army, perhaps the invasion of a small country? Or maybe working with some government. But is he the type that would do something to help benifit someone other than himself?

Obviously, whatever it is, he's expected a big reward for his efforts. As no man dumps that much money and effort into things like that without expecting something.

Lily Doll - [lilmidnightlily@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 02:49:42 PM
IP: 67.35.196.188

Xanatos testing thing on the clan: If he was testing his robots and employees agianst the clan, what was Xanatos' purpose for them that would require such testing?
If, say, destined for sale to the military, I could see that. But was he just keeping the Pack in shape during "Thrill of the Hunt"? Can anyone else think of another possible reason here?

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 12:10:55 PM
IP: 65.244.171.25

Sort of off-topic, but it's justified... ^_^


Last night, an event defined by the love of the game, the skills of the players and the heat of the moment came to a close in the St. Pete Times Forum...

Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals... Tampa Bay Lightning vs. Calgary Flames.

Tampa Bay won, 2-1 final score!

What made part of it sweet was the fact the Lightning's Team Captain - David Andrychuk - had been in the NHL for 22 years (playing nearly 1,700 gammes) without getting to win the Stanley Cup. Well, last night he got to skate around the Forum ice with the cup raised in victory.

Another sweet thing (and this I say just for Whitless) is the winner of the Con-Smythe MVP trophy - which has been won by such players as Wayne Gretzsky and Mario Leameu - was awarded to Prince Edward Island native Brad Richards. He's one of the greats of the game, and it's great to see him get his dues. Good on ya, Brad!

Kudos need to be said to the Flames, they played a hell of a series agains the Lightning. Calgary should be proud of their team... there is no shame is losing with dignity.

Well, that's all from me... I'm off to celebrate my hometeam's win. ^_^


Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa "HockeyTown" Bay, FL, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 11:15:58 AM
IP: 24.164.32.253

Greg Weisman's openly admitted in his "The Thrill of the Hunt" ramble that the Power Rangers were indeed a certain influence on the original conception of the Pack (another influence was professional wrestling). There's possibly another little poke at the Power Rangers in "Deadly Force", where Owen, in reporting the stolen guns to Captain Chavez, describes them as possessing various "power ranges", and pronounces "ranges" in such a way that it could sound pretty close to - well, you get the picture.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 06:54:13 AM
IP: 4.244.12.146

much like the Sleep Spell, i think its possible that too much is being assumed about the "Detective" dialogue between Xanatos and Goliath. isn't it possible and quite likely that Goliath was observing the arrival of Elisa and her conversation with Xanatos and Owen? just listening to their conversation you could figure out shes a detective and what a detective does. i think Xanatos probably figured that Goliath had been eavesdropping with Elisa. i don't think Xanatos realized that Goliath and Elisa had made contact until the Goon Squad found them in the park and notified Xanatos about it, or maybe even earlier when Goliath met Elisa on that rooftop, Goliath was wearing that tracking device afterall...
matt
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 01:21:51 AM
IP: 207.230.48.26

Z, though you may be right on this count. A LOT of phrases used today are VERY, VERY old.

For example, the phrase "Come and get us..." (translated) was first said by the Spartan King Leonidas right before the Battle of Thermopylae in reply to the Persian King Xerxes request for him and his forces to surrender.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Monday, June 7, 2004 10:10:21 PM
IP: 68.220.60.69

Todd -
<One little touch that I still really like: Lexington calling the Pack "defenders of the realm", a little reminder that the gargoyles came from the Middle Ages>

Ah, yes. That reminds me of something I forgot to mention. While I agree with your assertion here, I find it interesting in "Awakening Part V" that Brooklyn quips, "Sorry, wrong floor." While Brooklyn did often seem to be the quickest to adapt to the new world, it's a bit unlikely that he would use a modern elevator phrase such as that. It's conceivable that he heard it somewhere prior or that, being the witty character that he is, he came up with that smart remark on his own. Conceivable, but unlikely.

<"Oh, no, it's the Evil Ninjas!">

If I had to guess, I'd bet the intention of that was to poke fun at Power Rangers, which was Gargoyles's primary competition at the time. It could just be to make fun of any type of cliche, yet still more popular action series that couldn't duplicate the multi-dimensional dynamism that Gargoyles offered.

<who does Xanatos test his new devices out on now?>

Considering Xanatos's apparent desire to remain on good terms with Goliath and company, I doubt that he do anything too extreme to the point where he couldn't justify to Goliath some some of means in which the "test" would promote the general welfare of Xanatos, the gargoyles, and the humans as well.


"Thrill of the Hunt" is outstanding in its characterization of Lexington. His "naivete is refreshing", as Xanatos would phrase it. Lexington's childish nature and his inexperience with humans shine through as he looks up to The Pack as role models, but later refuses to trust anyone again once he is betrayed by them.

"Thrill of the Hunt" is really the only Pack episode whose actions scenes I enjoy, probably just because this is the first confrontation between the gargoyles and the Pack. I definitely enjoy pretty much every other aspect of what the other Pack eps have to offer, but after "Thrill of the Hunt", the lengthy battle scenes get really hackneyed.

Peace

Z
Monday, June 7, 2004 10:00:19 PM
IP: 67.66.158.173

One Xanatos thought that I had. We know that one of the reasons why he was sending all those new devices and henchmen (the Pack in their various forms, the Steel Clan, Coyote, etc.) after the gargoyles was as a means of testing them, to inspect their strengths and weaknesses in a combat situation. That raises an interesting question that would have been worth exploring after "The Journey"; now that the gargoyles are living with him, who does Xanatos test his new devices out on now? Obviously sending them after the clan wouldn't be a good idea with them as allies-of-a-sort, so he'll need some new guinea pigs.

Of course, Xanatos has plenty of enemies (Demona, Thailog, and probably the senior Illuminati once they find out that Xanatos isn't interested in turning the gargs over to them), but Goliath and his clan were especially ideal for the "guinea pig" role, since they took a relatively passive response to Xanatos going after them; they'd defend themselves vigorously, but they generally didn't go after him in retaliatory responses. (It helps that they generally thought in defensive strategies.) I doubt that Demona or Thailog would be quite as stoical about it.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 7, 2004 08:16:07 PM
IP: 4.245.22.241

About Xanatos' control over not just his company, but overall in his life. I always liked that he still had control while in jail. It was just more realistic for him. You hear about drug lords and crime bosses still dealing with their "buisness" when the sit in jail for 15 years. Xanatos isn't a control freak, but like the episode "The Edge", he still wants the reassurence that he can still handle things. He truely is one of the most realistic cartoon villians I have ever seen. I really like that about him. The only other realistic villian in a cartoon I can think of is "The Colonel" from Spirit:Stallion of the Cimarron. When I first saw that, I wanted to yell, "Yeah! He didn't get thrown off the cliff!". That had to be somesort of record. Putting the villian on a cliff and not having him fall to his death, lol.
Siren
Monday, June 7, 2004 07:44:36 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

CKAYOTE - No, they make it specifically clear in "Awakening Part Five" that the raids aren't simultaneous. As I said before, the underground base is alerted to the trio's theft of the first disc before Hudson and Bronx actually get in. And the airship is alerted to both the trio's raid and Hudson's raid (and their successfully getting away with the first two discs) before Goliath and Demona storm into the part of it where the third disc is being kept.

I watched my tape of "The Thrill of the Hunt" today. I still find much of it quite funny, especially the announcer for the Pack's live performance (when he was calling out, "Oh, no, it's the Evil Ninjas!", he sounded as if he'd been at the same acting school as Sevarius) and the scene where Billy and Susan turn up just as the Pack are about to finish off Goliath and Lexington, and start eagerly asking for autographs, followed by some priceless shots of Fox and Hyena's response to their choice of timing.

One interesting bit: at the beginning, Dingo's grumbling about how he's gotten out of shape and "wouldn't last a week in a Central American war". And, lo and behold, later on, two members of the Pack (though not Dingo himself) do get involved in a "Central American war" - if you count fighting a few gargoyles who don't approve of a rain forest-clearing project a war.

One of the best bits about this episode is what it reveals about Xanatos at the end. First, even while he's in prison, he's still a force to be reckoned with. And second, we get a real glimpse out of the way that he can take defeat well; he isn't upset about the fact that the Pack failed to dispose of Goliath, because their altercation provided him with useful information about the fighting skills and abilities of both the Pack and Goliath.

We also get the beginning of the arc where the gargoyles have to move out of the castle, right at the very beginning of the episode. One part that I particularly like about it is that they gave a believable reason for why it took so long for the gargoyles to finally do as Elisa was telling them and relocate: Goliath simply couldn't accept the fact that the castle in which they had lived for so long was no longer their home. Yes, it might seem annoyingly stubborn, but it was something that was perfectly in character for him.

One little touch that I still really like: Lexington calling the Pack "defenders of the realm", a little reminder that the gargoyles came from the Middle Ages, and are using a very medieval term for "super-heroes" (or, in this case, people who aren't really super-heroes but play them on television).

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 7, 2004 07:15:46 PM
IP: 4.245.22.241

CKayote -
<I was struck by the part where Goliath suggests Xanatos "use a detective".
What must have Xanatos been thinking when he said that? I'm of the opinion that he probably guessed Goliath had been talking to Elisa.>

I think this was one of those little gold nuggets that you're supposed to catch the second or third time around. Upon the first viewing of the episode, the audience is probably supposed to assume that Xanatos simply didn't make the connection that Elisa had found Goliath after all. But the second time around, once we all learn more and more about just how shrewd Xanatos is, we all know that those words would never slip by Xanatos.
I think that Xanatos's smooth response, "You're learning fast" (or something like that), fits perfectly within his characterization - always cool, collected, cunning. When Goliath says that, Xanatos probably did make the connection to Elisa, which would not have pleased him. But naturally, Xanatos didn't tip his hand or give even the slightest hint that something was amiss. I think this was one of those things that you are supposed to catch on to the second time you view it and realize how perfectly Xanatos's smooth response fits his character, which you can't really appreciate the first time you see it.

JJ Gregarius -
<When Brooklyn failed to find "kindred spirits," did he give up on his "cool" jacket? Did he redefine "cool"? Did that jacket belong to someone else!??!>

If I recall correctly, the jacket was ripped in "Temptation".

Peace

Z
Monday, June 7, 2004 06:47:02 PM
IP: 67.66.158.173

Raids>> Well, they *tried* to attack at the same time, but seeing as they had no communcations devices (IIRC) or even watches, it would have been a bit of a challenge to begin the attacks at the exact same time!
Brooklyn at the end of Awakening>> The problem I have with the last scene is that that leather jacket is never seen again to my knowledge, with the possible exception of "Temptation." When Brooklyn failed to find "kindred spirits," did he give up on his "cool" jacket? Did he redefine "cool"? Did that jacket belong to someone else!??!

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Monday, June 7, 2004 12:58:37 PM
IP: 4.247.209.16

Stan: Hi. Welcome to the group.

Todd: I was always of the opinion that the Cyberbiotics raids were all happening at roughly the same time, they just couldn't show them all at the same time.
As for Xanatos, I think the fact that he's wheeling and dealing even when he's definately at the disadvantage is a good part of why he sticks with people after all these years.

That said, I watched Awakening 3 last night while I was looking for clips for my video. While I didn't break the whole thing down and analyze it, I was struck by the part where Goliath suggests Xanatos "use a detective".
What must have Xanatos been thinking when he said that? I'm of the opinion that he probably guessed Goliath had been talking to Elisa.
Anyone else have thoughts there?

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, June 7, 2004 12:15:57 PM
IP: 65.244.171.25

CKayote> Interesting. I had considered using MachineHead for a Coldstone video. Love to see yours.
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Monday, June 7, 2004 07:33:30 AM
IP: 66.220.74.145

10th.

Now for my comments on "Awakening Part Five".

First, a few remarks on the Cyberbiotics raid.

It's interesting to note that, despite Xanatos's warning that all three Cyberbiotics installations had to be hit simultaneously so that none could warn the others, the gargoyles didn't succeed in accomplishing that objective. Hudson and Bronx arrived at the underground installation after the trio had made off with the first disc from the tower, by which time the commanding officer there had learned of the raid on the tower. And Goliath and Demona didn't make it into the part of the airship where the third disc was being kept until after both the first and second discs had been stolen. Maybe the clan needed some synchronized wristwatches? (Though I think that it added to the drama, with the increasing alarm from one Cyberbiotics installation to the next of the report of the robberies, culminating in the commander aboard the airship crying out "We've lost two-thirds of the data!", and then Demona bursts in and answers, "Wrong! You've lost it all!")

At the 2001 Gathering, A Fan brought up an interesting point about the scene where the trio take the first disc from the Cyberbiotics Tower. In that scene, Brooklyn grabs one of the scientists and asks him, "Where's the disc?" Fan brought up the question of: what if the scientist had asked "What disc?" in bewilderment. Which would lead to Brooklyn saying "The disc that you stole from Xanatos", which in turn, would lead to the scientist bewilderedly stating that Cyberbiotics had never stolen anything from him....

I still get a kick out of the scene where Hudson, after searching all about for the disc in the underground lab, brings his fist down upon the control panel in frustration - and just happens to land it on the right button for producing the second disc!

As people were saying here a little bit ago (before the room cleared), there are some strong clues here that Demona had been awake and about for the past thousand years, despite her story. She's clearly more familiar with modern technology than the rest of the clan. She's had time to become still more bitter towards humans, bitter enough to deliberately destroy the air fortress to Goliath's horror. And the clincher - when she reveals that she has a name as well - and that the humans gave it to her long ago. Which makes it clear that she hadn't been asleep for quite so long.

(Incidentally, the revelation of her name as "Demona" conjures up an apparent scenario for how she got her name that turns out to be different from what was actually the case. While I can't be certain now as to what I thought when I first saw this episode ten years ago, it would be easy to assume from the context that Demona received her name from terrified humans whom she was attacking. And then we learn later on in "City of Stone" that it was given to her by a human *ally*, and not over her "demonish" character traits, but in praise of her fighting skills. Talk about setting up a big surprise!)

Greg Weisman pointed out one thing that I'd missed, about a great piece of irony in the conversation between Goliath and Demona just before Goliath goes to see Elisa. When Demona is demanding vengeance upon the humans for what they did to the clan, Goliath tells her that "the ones responsible for that have been dead for hundreds of years". Greg brought up in his ramble for the episode what I hadn't caught - Demona was one of "the ones responsible for that", she knows it deep down inside (though she'll never consciously admit it, even to herself), and she knows that she definitely hasn't been dead for the past thousand years. I hadn't even thought of that then, but it certainly adds something to the scene.

I can't help but suspect that Goliath would be amazed afterwards, when he discovered the truth about Xanatos, for having said to Demona during that conversation, "Doesn't Xanatos prove that there are good humans as well as bad ones?"

You've got to admire Xanatos for one thing: he stays calm even when Goliath is threatening to drop him over the side of the castle, saying (correctly) "Without me, you'd still be gathering moss." It's so refreshing to see an animated villain who doesn't beg for mercy in a cowardly fashion in such a situation. One reason why Xanatos is so much fun; he defiantly breaks so many of the villain cliches.

I wonder, incidentally, how many first-time viewers were expecting Xanatos to return when we saw him in the police car at the end, and how many thought that he was gone for good.

And so "Awakening" ends, with the gargoyles settled down in the castle, Brooklyn dealing with the demolition of his sunglasses in the battle, Broadway hungry again only an hour after eating Chinese food, and Goliath and Elisa clearly friends now ("Same time tomorrow night?" "I wouldn't miss it." "Good. Maybe we'll catch a Giants game." "Giants?").

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 7, 2004 07:21:27 AM
IP: 4.244.12.46

9th!
matt
Monday, June 7, 2004 02:47:15 AM
IP: 207.230.48.74

8!

WOOOOOOO! I finally finished my Xanatos-"Machinehead" video. It's only been like 6 months. Now I just need a website to host it.......

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, June 7, 2004 02:06:05 AM
IP: 65.244.171.25

Wingless> A Canadian flag, perhaps?

#7!!!

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CANADAMonday, June 7, 2004 01:28:04 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

6th!
The Sadistic Cow
Monday, June 7, 2004 01:09:39 AM
IP: 65.92.45.170

5th!
Demona Taina
Monday, June 7, 2004 01:02:38 AM
IP: 172.208.231.20

4th.
Leo
Monday, June 7, 2004 12:58:58 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Top 10!! #3?
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, June 7, 2004 12:08:38 AM
IP: 67.14.195.7

Lily Doll> "...couldn't Demona have been the one to tell Xanatos of the castle in the first place?...I can't remember how Xanatos came across the castle in the first place off the top of my head." Brooklyn is the one who brings Xanatos and Demona together, giving Xanatos the Grimorum (along with the Magus's story of the clan) during a stop on his Timedancing tour.

*poungles Wingless*

Vashkoda
Monday, June 7, 2004 12:06:45 AM
IP: 129.98.31.102

First Maybe? hmm. *Plants a flag*
Wingless
Monday, June 7, 2004 12:01:50 AM
IP: 24.157.218.68