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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

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Comments for the week ending May 2, 2005

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Todd - It was useless to discuss this before, since we were hoping Disney would be some advertising for the dvd release. :-( I'm just wondering how far $100k would go towards advertising. $100k spent on advertising for a season 2 release oughta be a drop in the bucket compared to advertising for Disney releasing cheapquels. That reminds me of an essay that I could potentially write, with help from my marketing professor, about whether or not Disney releasing multiple movies per movie actually is a good marketing move. :-( By releasing so many movies per year, in fact, the value of the Disney name attached to a movie is much less than it used to be.
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, May 1, 2005 11:44:16 PM
IP: 65.132.36.158

I was thinking about the advertising of a Gargoyles DVD and remembered an occurance in Washington, although what it was for was unknown. Awhile ago, someone put a glossy black monolith in the middle of a field, then a few days later, it vanished. It got news coverage and there was speculation on a remake of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Now, for Gargoyles, maybe Disney could have fiberglass statues of the Clan (including Demona and Angela, it IS for Season 2), 3-5 of each member in various stonesleep poses, and have them put in locations throughout Manhattan during the day. Then, in the dead of night, remove them, leaving "stone shards" behind, and put them elsewhere in the city before sunrise. Finally, on the DVD release date, put all of the statues on top of the Disney Store in Times Square (at least I think there is something Disney related there, I don't remember). Afterwards, they can be auctioned off on E-Bay for charity.
Gantros
Sunday, May 1, 2005 10:39:43 PM
IP: 67.189.1.250

I'll confess that this discussion strikes me as almost locking the barn door after the horse escaped, since the DVD was already released a little over four months ago. On the other hand, it could still serve nicely as ways in which we can be certain that the Season Two DVD (if/when it comes out) will be properly marketed.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, May 1, 2005 07:01:45 PM
IP: 4.244.18.9

We've done letter writing campaigns to Disney before.

I might suggest that a letter writing campaign to various media organizations would be more productive. Something along the lines of a few hundred people going, "Why aren't you covering Gargoyles?" to, say, Scifi Wire, might get some people to sit up and take notice ...


Leva
Sunday, May 1, 2005 04:11:20 PM
IP: 162.42.86.6

Making the $100k go far - Here's my thinking, since I brought it up. We wouldn't have to spend virtually any money developing the ads at all. We run contests to get the printed ads that we would need to use as advertisements in the various magazines. Creating a 30 second tv commercial might be tricky. Then again, I believe we run contests for best music videos made with footage every year so getting the ads produced isn't the problem. The question, in my mind, comes with getting the best bang for the buck on where we would advertise. One obvious place is whenever gargoyles is currently being aired and you guys could know which magazines would be the best place to advertise to reach the target market. Can anybody tell me how far that $100k would actually stretch in terms of advertising? How much for running those ads on Toon Disney and for the other obvious places?
dph
ar, usa
Sunday, May 1, 2005 03:03:07 AM
IP: 65.132.36.59

I tried sending a few forum posts on G4techtv.com's site, sent a couple E-mails to Wizard, no responses.
Gantros
Saturday, April 30, 2005 03:59:45 PM
IP: 67.189.1.250

Oh hell no to the spam method. Seriously, how many of you actually read spam? That, and anyone with a decent browser won't see popups anyways so that wouldn't work to begin with. What we need the most is a few TV ads and some magazine reviews.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Saturday, April 30, 2005 03:58:04 PM
IP: 66.119.34.57

Re: Advertising> $100,000 doesn't go as far in advertising as you might think. I think something that gets the news websites geared toward the scifi fantasy, i.e. Scifi wire, to notice, also, booths at scifi/fantasy con's might be a good idea. Dragoncon for example would be a great platform for that. But that's just me.
Phoenyx
Memphis, TN, USA
Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:59:53 AM
IP: 135.214.66.240

Xanatos & Revenge: Maybe his opinion there is based on something that happened to him in his life. Perhaps Xanatos or someone close to him tried to get their revenge, and he saw first hand how much it cost?

Advertising: $100K would go a hell of a long way with us at the helm. Particularly if we were to devote some energy to more alternitive media. I imagine an "Gargoyles is now on DVD" chain email scheme. Forward it to 10 people and be entered to when a copy of the DVD. Or an animated pop-up that ends with Keith David's voice saying, "And now, 10 years later, the spell is broken and we live in again!". Similarily, I imagine we could pay a few anime + DVD magazines to cover it in the reviews section. Or get a fan-made advertisement in the previews section of DVDs of contemporary-period shows.

DVDs: I'm just waiting for Rocko's Modern Life and the Angry Beavers.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:37:18 AM
IP: 64.192.79.127

*bangs head on desk as she realizes she forgot her color* stupid me.
Phoenyx
Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:22:34 AM
IP: 135.214.66.240

Jurgan> I just posted the news about FOP for the benefit o others in here. In other words, I was just being nice. Pete & Pete was a shock, I've missed that show.

Dph> Well, it certainly is an interesting analogy. never quite looked at it like that.

Speaking of, advanced tickets are on sale now for Star Wars ep 3. Get yours now. *chuckles* Granted, if it's anything like the others, you might want to wait until the dvd release, but that ain't stopping me from going. Whoo hoo. Now, if we can just get Lucasfilms to partner with the Jim Henson workshop again, we'd be shiney.
Phoenyx
Memphis, TN, USA
Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:20:16 AM
IP: 135.214.66.240

good analogy... but wheres the question?
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:06:14 AM
IP: 68.95.57.103

I have a question about an analogy I just thought up.

Anakin Skywalker is to Darth Vader as Goliath's "angel of the night" is to Demona. Demona didn't become Demona overnight the same way it would take Anakin Skywalker years to truely become Darth Vader.

dph
ar, usa
Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:50:35 AM
IP: 65.132.36.208

Phoenyx: While I don't give a rat's patootie one way or the other about Father of the Pride (never saw it), you've just given me news that gives my life meaning: Pete & Pete is coming out?! Hallejuia! I've been wanting that releases for years! *Runs to amazon.com to order his copy* Now if only they'd bring out All That (Season One).
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
Friday, April 29, 2005 06:23:45 PM
IP: 199.79.253.61

TZ Interview: Nothing new revealed, but still good nonetheless. I did e-mail the editor about the ABC Family thing since they quit airing the show MONTHS ago. (Stopped at "Hunter's Moon, part 2")

Gantros: I haven't had a chance to talk to her at all since the last time. She said her machine should be back sometime tomorrow last we spoke, and she would update the index then. If anything changes, I'll make a post. PLEASE be patient. Perhaps since you're so eager for an update, you should fire off an e-mail and volunteer to assist. From what Shara tells me, some help would definitely be welcome.

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Friday, April 29, 2005 12:33:44 AM
IP: 66.119.34.57

I would even wager this. Give the fandom an advertising budget of $100,000 for the next dvd release (we get to pick where and how to spend the money) and I would be willing to bet that we could *double* the sales of the 1st dvd release.
dph
ar, usa
Friday, April 29, 2005 12:17:14 AM
IP: 65.132.36.189

kris - <I think Greg should advise Disney that if they had advertised for the set a little in video game & anime magazines, as well as in comic books, perhaps their sales may've gone "VERY well" instead.> Let's see. You forgot the best place to advertise the release of those dvds: when the show airs on toon disney. I'd like to know what "fairly well" on sales is in comparison to. Given that there was **no** advertising aside from word of mouth from the fandom, "fairly well" could well be "exceeds expectations". Anybody got numbers for what it would have cost Disney just to run *two* ads during each airing of Gargoyles on tv for a month (ignore costs of producing ads, I just want to the cost of airing those ads)?
dph
ar, usa
Friday, April 29, 2005 12:05:28 AM
IP: 65.132.36.189

Vertigo> Since you seem to have contact with shara, any update on having the comic site up tomorrow?
Gantros
Thursday, April 28, 2005 09:35:00 PM
IP: 67.189.1.250

..
Anonymous
Thursday, April 28, 2005 08:41:21 PM
IP: 135.214.66.241

Phoenyx, I know and I'm planning on running out to snag a copy.

However, with the re-emergence of Family Guy due to good DVD
sales, Here's hoping Father has the same treatment.

Matt Fews
Thursday, April 28, 2005 03:03:23 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

DVD Review>> The only problem I have with it is that it is the only review on rottentomatoes.com!

Violence & Cartoons Today>> All I can think of are the battles in the current TMNT cartoon where characters can get badly mauled, but their injuries cannot be seen until they are bandaged. Very, very weird.

Historical inaccuracy>> I have a feeling the Illiad wasn't accurate, either. ;-) What kills Troy is that it doesn't quite make sense.

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Thursday, April 28, 2005 02:29:18 PM
IP: 4.247.155.129

For those who care. Father of the Pride is going to be released on DVD on June 7. So is Lois and Clark the New Adventures of Superman. And Pete and Pete comes out May 17!!! Good old TV shows on DVD. this info is courtesy of Amazon.com have a wonderful day folks!!!
Phoenyx
memphis, TN, USA
Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:43:43 PM
IP: 135.214.66.240

I've got to agree that "Gargoyles" wouldn't be able to get away with as much today as it did ten years ago, though I'm certain that Greg could still make it good if it came back. (Mind you, I think that they can still handle dark moments in Saturday morning cartoons if they do it just right. Take the scene in "X-Men: Evolution" where Rogue smashed the petrified Mystique; I thought that it was even more disturbing than Demona's "City of Stone" rampage.)

So still no definite news on the Season Two DVD? Pity. But we can still keep on waiting.

BISHANSKY - I've got to admit, that WWII epic idea of yours would definitely get a lot of jaws dropping! (Of course, lack of historical accuracy in dramatizations isn't anything new - you should see what Shakespeare did to Joan of Arc in "Henry VI Part One"!)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, April 28, 2005 07:54:22 AM
IP: 4.244.12.104

The sales were "fairly well" ? Do I need to go out and buy another 2 - 5 copies? I think Greg should advise Disney that if they had advertised for the set a little in video game & anime magazines, as well as in comic books, perhaps their sales may've gone "VERY well" instead.
Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Thursday, April 28, 2005 01:42:21 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178

Damn, I'm posting a lot lately...

Todd> Glad you liked the review. Especially after you mentioned how you're not big on sarcasm. My Troy review was pure, unbridled sarcasm.

Actually, Troy inspired me to come up with an idea for my own historical epic, about World War 2 and just as accurate as Troy ;)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gregx/118381.html

Greg Bishansky
Thursday, April 28, 2005 01:36:51 AM
IP: 68.199.86.13

Nothing really new. But a nice interview.

As for the DVDs, yeah, we're still waiting. But if it was "No", we'd have heard.

Greg Bishansky
Thursday, April 28, 2005 01:30:45 AM
IP: 68.199.86.13

It looks like Greg Weisman was interviewed over at ToonZone. It's the first of several interviews that will be posted throughout the summer. And, the biggest news of all, a brief paragraph with some news on a season two DVD set. Click my name for details!
D. Taina
Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:45:14 AM
IP: 172.159.202.175

Xanatos> One thing about Xanatos: a lot of his personal philosophies are much easier for him to follow because he is the guy in charge. I believe it was Todd who once pointed out that Baxter Stockman on "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (the new one) once expressed a view of failure and how it can be a learning experience quite similar to Xanatos's. But Baxter's not the top dog; the Shredder is. So his views about what his failure means are irrelevant. Xanatos, with all the wealth and power at his disposal, makes his own rules. I think he'd like to believe that his power is able to keep him from ever experiencing anything close to what The Bride went through. If he did, I wonder if he would consider his reaction to be revenge? Maybe in his view, it would be more "justice", or "ensuring that this killer never did something like this again". Like I said, he's in charge, he makes the rules. If he goes back on his personal morals, he's only accountable to himself.
Demonskrye - [<---Jim Hill Media]
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:28:49 PM
IP: 24.218.32.209

Xanatos might be considered to have come close towards revenge in "Double Jeopardy" when he went after Sevarius after he thought that Sevarius had kidnapped Thailog and was holding him for ransom - though I'm not certain how much a case of genuine revenge it was. (After all, no matter how you feel about revenge, it's obvious that when one of your employees does something that treacherous, you have to take disciplinary action.)

Thanks for the "Troy" link, Bishansky; I hadn't seen the movie (I'd considered doing so, but it wasn't showing at the theatre in my neighborhood, and after I'd read some things about the movie, I didn't feel too bad about missing it), but I did find myself seriously wondering about the changes that it made from the legend. (The omission of the Olympian gods, I can understand - but having Agamemnon and Menelaus killed during the war?) One bit, though - according to a history teacher of mine, the Greeks during that part of history actually were the blond blue-eyed sorts; the reason why they aren't now is because of intermingling with darker, more "Mediterranean" people in the time since then.

(If you want some really unusual takes on the Trojan War, there's always Velikovsky's theory that the battles between the gods in Homer were really confused recollections of the planets Venus and Mars having near-collisions with each other, or Iman Wilkens' theory that the Trojan War took place in Britain with Troy being near the present site of Cambridge. But now I'm seriously digressing.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 06:53:21 PM
IP: 4.245.16.21

Back to the revenge topic. A couple of people and I discussed this over IM.

Let's put Xanatos in a similar situation as the Bride was put in, or perhaps even worse.

A villain, maybe Thailog kills Fox, kills Petros, kills Alex, destroys everything Xanatos has, and comes very close to kills Xanatos himself.

Would Xanatos seek revenge? His belief in revenge being impractical aside, I think he would. As someone else said, he might not call it revenge, but it would be revenge.

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 05:24:41 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

It was a bad review, but I'd hardly call it a smartass review. You want to see a smartass review, here's a link to the review I wrote for Troy several months back...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gregx/115576.html

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 04:38:58 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

Review: Meh, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It struck me rather like it was written by a smartass, but then I guess it takes one to know one. ;)
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 04:10:24 PM
IP: 66.119.34.57

Aelyria> Well, I suppose that could always be saved for Vol. 3 "Kill Beatrix" which Tarantino says he'd like to come back and film in a decade or so. Having Vernita's daughter all grown up seeking revenge on the Bride.

Seriously, I think B.B. was going to be screwed up either way. Lookie, Daddy's the world's greatest assassin. And hey, at four years old, Daddy is having her watch "Shogun Assassins". And she already knew that Bill shot her Mom in the head (he told her) ;)

As for that review, like I said, complete non-issue. I disagree, but it's a very non-issue. At least they didn't mock the fandom like a certain other review we got.

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 01:58:40 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

I too love Kill Bill, but the thing that always bugs me at the end is that they don't show Kiddo explaining to BB that her father is dead. How screwed up is that kid going to be? "Hi, honey. First your dad shot me, and now I've killed him. But everything's good now. How about breakfast?" I know it would have interfered with the ending, but I can't help wondering about it.
Aelyria
Austin, TX
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 01:18:35 PM
IP: 168.39.180.220

D. Taina> Re Review:

It's a negative review, but it's not flaming. At least he doesn't say "'Power Rangers' was a much better show."

Leo
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 01:09:06 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Busy, busy, busy at work... and off to Colorado this weekend for a wedding. So yes, I have good reasons why I'm not in here every day for the countdown.

Re: Gargoyles DVD review - I just love how the documentary DVD has made everyone outside the immediate fandom think that the Gathering always takes place in Canada. And don't get me started on the web link they said they were going to include but didn't.

Anyway...

Is revenge always a "sucker's game"? I think it depends on what the vengeance is being sought for. Something like the scenario in "Kill Bill" seems like it'd be a much nobler justification for seeking payback than, say, hunting someone down because they stole your lunch money. If you believe in kharmic justice, is it wrong to actively help bring it about? Of course, when revenge becomes a driving obsession, it can leave a person with little to do once it's been accomplished...

Inigo: "You know, it's very strange -- I have been in the revenge business so long, now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life."

Westley: "Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts."

93 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:58:58 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Oh yeah... click on my name to see the trailer (whoops)
http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/serenity/index.html" TARGET="_top">IRC Goliath - [goliath1 (at) pacbell [dot] net]
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:09:11 AM
IP: 209.234.142.80

The Serenity movie trailer was released yesterday-ish. For those of you who don't know, Serenity is a movie of Joss Whedon's series Firefly. The movie was green-lighted thanks to the combination of fan outcry (the series had been abruptly pulled from broadcast before the first season even finished airing) and DVD sales.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/serenity/index.html" TARGET="_top">IRC Goliath - [goliath1 (at) pacbell [dot] net]
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:08:49 AM
IP: 209.234.142.80

Sorry, the last one was mine. :(

DVD REVIEW: Yah, Byrdie's right... even that Kevin reviewer is entitled to his stupid opinions. ;)

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaWednesday, April 27, 2005 10:11:23 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

...
b\
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:09:18 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

"Kill Bill" = Argument for Revenge?> Well, yes and no, in my mind anyway. On the one hand, if The Bride hadn't gone on her rampage of revenge and worked her way up to Bill, she wouldn't have found her daughter or even known that she was still alive. And as the audience, we feel that The Bride is entitled to vengeance for what's been done to her. And yet, after all that build up, from the very first scene in Volume 1 to the title of the movie itself, the actual killing of Bill isn't hugely satisfying for either The Bride or we the viewers. In part because, unlike all the other fights, it happens very quickly. And in part because Bill is not the loathsome villian we might have suspected, but a charismatic man beautifully played by David Carradine. In the end, it's not Bill's death that actually brings the Bride satisfaction. It's more of a means to an end. Something that has to happen not just because of what he's done to her, but in order for The Bride to be reunited with her daughter. She avoids the usual pitfalls of the rebenge game because she has something to give her life meaning after it's all over.

Oh, and I think the quote is "All is right in the jungle", as the metaphor is of a lioness and her cub. But I haven't seen the movie in quite a while, so I could well be wrong.

Demonskrye - [<---Jim Hill Media]
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 08:51:36 AM
IP: 146.115.115.131

I'm more concerned that the review was written in such a sarcastic fashion than the fact that it took a negative view of the series. (I'm not a big fan of sarcasm; I prefer plain "I liked it/didn't like it, and this is why" reviews or comments.)

An interesting tidbit. Last night, I was watching a documentary on PBS about archaeology in Israel (focusing on uncovering some artifacts in a cave dating back to the period when Israel was part of the Roman Empire; one of the archaeologists believes that the artifacts were from the Temple of Jerusalem before the Romans destroyed it, but many of his colleagues aren't as convinced). The narrator's voice sounded strongly familiar from the start, so when the opening credits showed on screen, I watched them carefully, and - yes, the narrator was Keith David. It's fun to run into these familiar voices, I think; it made an enjoyable side treat to watching the program.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 07:26:08 AM
IP: 4.244.12.56

i find that review kinda funny actually... its not like i agree of course, but we all have always known that not everyone in the world likes the series, this particular person managed to express his opinion using humor and still was respectful to the fans. good for him. i think there are many Gargoyles fans that can learn from this review the proper way to make an opinion known about a tv show they dislike... *wink*
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 07:18:08 AM
IP: 68.95.57.103

DT> I like my topic better ;)

Actually, far as that review goes, hey, they're entitled to their opinion, it's not the end of the world. Most of the other reviews have been good.

So, not even worth raising an eyebrow over.

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 01:01:50 AM
IP: 68.199.86.13

Ooooh, a revenge topic. Nice! *grins*

Well, as far as we know, Xanatos never had anything terrible happen to him. But, maybe he did. Maybe he always had the notion that there's no point in trying to get revenge; that you don't really get anything out of it.

Sure, in Kill Bill, she had good reason to go after her former comrades. After all, they did try to kill her. But after killing them all, was she really satisfied? Was she happy in the fact that they were all dead? (Great, I'm answering a question with a question!)

There are some who want revenge, and after they get it, they're not satisfied. So they go after someone else, and get their revenge on them. But they're still not satisfied, so they find someone else. And it just kinda continues. They wanted revenge, and although they got it, they don't feel as if they have.

Revenge is something people feel they need to have if something has been ripped away from them; if something so huge and drastic has happened, and they think that they are the only ones who can right the wrong.

In my mind, revenge is a sucker's game. Afterall, what's the point in trying to get something, when there's a chance of innocents getting hurt?

(I know I have more to write, but I just had an exam a few hours ago, and my brain's been squeezed already. Buuuut on the upside, I've finished my exams!!! *does happy dance* Now I can keep my brain in the 'off' position!)

BrooksBabe
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:59:19 AM
IP: 64.228.109.158

Meh, screw it. He's entitled to his opinion, I suppose ^^;
Byrdie - [pocket_avalon@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:56:03 AM
IP: 152.13.127.32

Here's something to talk about. I found a review for the Gargoyles DVD over at Rotten Tomatoes. And it's not pretty.

Comments?

D. Taina
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:41:05 AM
IP: 172.171.82.31

Subject dropped as far as I'm concerned.

New subject. Revenge. A very popular subject in the realm of fiction. It's certainly one of my all time favorite subjects, and always fascinating to read about.

We all know the view "Gargoyles" takes on revenge. David Xanatos summed it up best with "Revenge as they say is a suckers game," and indeed he's allowed to feel that way, man is at the top of the world, and any petty vengeances are beneath him. Of course, when you get where he is, you don't really have to prove anything to anyone.

Goliath has been vengeful at times, but almost always came to his senses in the end. He forgave the Captain, and made peace with Xanatos and the Canmores (well, except Jon).

And then there's characters like Demona and Macbeth. Both have been consumed by their desires for vengeance, particularly Demona and none of them were ever brought happiness. And in the Archmage's case, revenge made him stupid.

So clearly, as far as Gargoyles goes, Xanatos's line sums it up.

But on the other hand, you have a movie like "Kill Bill" (one of my all time favorite movies), which is almost all about revenge. The Bride was seriously stabbed in the back by her former comrades and her boss and lover (and father of her child) Bill. As the character of Budd said "that woman deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die. But then, so does she.", cause the Bride was no angel herself.

These people were all high-priced assassins, killers who showed no remorse. Was vengeance a good choice for the Bride? I would say "Hell yes,". After learning she's pregnant with Bill's child, she runs off, changes her name and meets a guy in El Paso, Texas and is going to get married, when Bill and the Deadly Vipers show, kill everyone in the chapel, and Bill puts a bullet in her head. So, four years later she wakes up and one by one hunts all of them down. In the end, she comes face to face with Bill, learns their daughter is still alive and Bill was raising her. But even that was not enough to turn her, even though beneath it all they still love each other, what must be must be, and the Bride kills Bill, and Bill faced death like a man. He didn't run from it, he owned up. The Bride is reunited with her daughter. And all is well in the garden.

Definetly a very different view of revenge than on "Gargoyles". Yes, circumstances were different, but at the same time, it kind of puts to lie "revenge is a suckers' game".

So, was David Xanatos right? Or is that easy for him to say since (as far as we know) he's never ever had anything really and truly terrible happen to him?

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 07:08:58 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

I agree with Demonskrye about letting the "Father of the Pride" discussion drop; the whole thing is reminding me of the saying "A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - especially the latter part.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 06:31:31 PM
IP: 4.244.12.74

Could we please just let the "Father of the Pride" thing drop? I don't care whether or not anyone likes or dislikes the show, but I know I really don't care to read an argument about it.

When you get down to it, this is a matter of opinion and no amount of debating is going to make anyone more right. Take "Home Movies" for example, that show which you both seem so happy to dump on. Two good friends of mine happen to have worked on that show. So needless to say, I don't really agree with your views on it. But you know what? Debating it just isn't worth my time. It's just my opinion, I realize I'm probably a little biased, and I know I'm unlikely to influence what you or anyone else think. So even though I don't particularly care to hear my friends' work called "garbage", I generally just ignore it. There's no reason that anyone else can't do the same regarding "Father of the Pride", especially in a comment room in which most of the discussion is supposedly about "Gargoyles".

Demonskrye - [<----Jim Hill Media]
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 03:01:41 PM
IP: 67.100.23.24

Wait, wait, wait. You mentioned "Home Movies" in comparison to how I thought it sucked? What did you do, Phoenix Gate your way a few hours into the future by a few hours? I never mentioned Home Movies prior to that.

And, for the record, you're not going to win a debate with someone when you come to the defense of something the other thinks is garbage by putting that garbage up against something else that's garbage.

Just an an example, say someone out there was a really big fan of "Batman & Robin" (I don't know why, maybe they liked the Bat nipples) and they're defending it against it's many (and there are many) detractors, and they decide to try and make it look better by saying it's better than "Battlefield Earth"... see my point? Doesn't work that way.

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 01:21:51 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

I saw "The Interpreter" Yesterday. I teccomend it. CHeck out my review @ www.geocities.com/oscarmovs/interpreter.html ) or clicky my name.

One of the supporting characters is Clyde Kusatsu:

"Kai" (voice) in episode: "Bushido" (episode # 2.40) 20 February 1996 and

"Dr. Arnada" (voice) in episode: "Sentinel" (episode # 2.39) 19 February 1996

I thought it was good movie. check out my review (Although it may not be up right away.)

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaTuesday, April 26, 2005 11:16:54 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

My debating skills are irrevelant, I merely mentioned Home Movies because of how you thought it sucked, therefore I was using it as a comparison to how 'Father' doesn't suck.

Hey, At least the Lions in it look like real lions, unlike the one in the upcoming Dreamworks Movie Madagascar.

Matt Fews
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 08:12:12 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

I'm not dismissing fans of FOTP. And I don't hate it, trust me, I don't care enough about it to hate it.

I'm just wondering about Matt Fews debating "skills", I mean where did that Home Movies stuff come from?

Greg Bishansky
Monday, April 25, 2005 04:22:38 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

Greg B: Point is, there are people here that DO care about Father of the Pride, and you shouldn't just dismiss them just because you hate the show.

Anyways for those of you curious about the update on the Gargoyles Comic site, I talked to Shara and she said her computer is still under repair and probably won't get it back until this friday. Just be patient. :)

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Monday, April 25, 2005 04:16:38 PM
IP: 66.119.34.57

Oh, and out of curiosity Matt, what was the point of that? No one mentioned Home Movies at all prior.

As for it having animation 10x better than Home Movies. Well, "Enter Macbeth" had animation 10x better than Home Movies. Hell, your average Disney Direct-to-Video sequel has animation 10x better than Home Movies.

Aw well, I'll bet you were Captain of the Debate Team in High School ;)

Greg Bishansky
Monday, April 25, 2005 04:10:52 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

MATT FEWS> What does one have to do with the other anyway? And who mentioned "Home Movies". I don't like that show either.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, April 25, 2005 03:24:41 PM
IP: 68.199.86.13

Guess I'm 10th

Greg B, You may not like FotP but at least the animation is 10 times better than that of Home Movies.

Matt Fews
Monday, April 25, 2005 12:11:22 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

<Comes out of the lurker's observation room quietly.>
Nine in the name of...um...evil chickens!
<Quietly retreats backwards out of the comment room.>

Enigma:)
Monday, April 25, 2005 09:36:46 AM
IP: 24.118.182.35

8th
Anonymous
Monday, April 25, 2005 06:03:30 AM
IP: 129.234.4.1

Lucky SEVEN!
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera@gmail.com]
Monday, April 25, 2005 05:08:30 AM
IP: 68.66.254.172

6th!
Leo
Monday, April 25, 2005 03:12:18 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

5th. Hopefully this week is better than the last!
mascubanana
Monday, April 25, 2005 01:43:22 AM
IP: 160.39.105.72

4th!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, April 25, 2005 01:28:11 AM
IP: 67.14.195.10

*Settles for third*

Kris> Would've been nice to hear his thoughts on it.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, April 25, 2005 12:20:36 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

SECOND!
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Monday, April 25, 2005 12:19:48 AM
IP: 68.95.57.103

First?

This guy I met at my boss's birthday party last Monday, he's working with a Toronto-based animation studio called something like CORE on one of the next Disney films. I should've tried to talk Gargoyles with him, that didn't even occur to me! D'oh!

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Monday, April 25, 2005 12:13:50 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178