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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 12, 2010

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I think I would still take Icestorm Brooklyn over Strike Hammer Macbeth.
Harvester of Eyes
"You've lost sight of the purpose of the law: to protect its citizens, not persecute them. Whatever we are, whatever's left of us, we're better than that." -Commander Adama ("Battlestar Galactica")

Hey guys.

So I decided I was gonna do a commentary on the Stone of Destiny story in the SLG comical books. Basically, what I did was take the thing page by page, panel by panel, and looked at how each panel and page fit together in a way of showing the nonlinear storytelling was no where near random.

So uhhh...check it ouuuuuuuuut....

http://harlanphoenix.blogspot.com/2010/04/commentary-rock.html

I'll do the other issues...whenever...

Harlan Phoenix

Actually, here's a better list with pictures
Wingless

Icestorm Brooklyn-Why did kenner do half the useless figures they did when there were so many great legit figures they could have done? Not a complete list, but here's a peek at what Gargoyles fans org has. They're missing the Goliath Flamestorm and the Rainstorm Hudson(forgotton what the heck they are now). Got em all hanging on my wall but they're too far away for me to see what they're calledThey're out of reach
Wingless

LoL Icestorm Brooklyn...one thing I have to say is that the beak and overall design of the Brooklyn action figure received a great upgrade from this one *shudder* http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000MGQ3R6/sr=1-4/qid=1270964069/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=165793011&s=toys-and-games&qid=1270964069&sr=1-4

I'm actually drawing an Icestorm Brooklyn-type character for a friend, it's nearly finished! http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/volpe_fuego/frostbite.jpg

Once it's complete, I'll post it up here for everyone to take a looksie ^^

VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
"You just made your last mistake, rich man." ~ Jackal

IceStorm Brooklyn>...That is the most stupidly beautiful thing I have ever seen.

I wish to marry it. And from it I will birth a nation.

Harlan Phoenix

Hi everyone ^^ I was just curious to know if anyone had any updates on that epic Gargoyles statue being made. Not the Bowen one, the other with the Gargoyles title at the bottom and Goliath standing tall on it.
VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
"You just made your last mistake, rich man." ~ Jackal

I think it's interesting, but all I can ask is,...........Why?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B001UFNX6M/ref=dp_images_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&img=1&childASIN=B001UFNX6M

IceStorm Brooklyn

BISHANSKY - The family tree's great! It certainly appeals to the medieval history buff in me (one of the things that first drew me to "Gargoyles").

Sir Walter Scott mentioned a legend in his writings that Robert de Mowbray, when forced to surrender the castle of Alnwick to Canmore and told to hand over the keys, did so hanging from his lance, and arranged it in such a way that he thrust the key into Canmore's eye, leading to his being given the nickname "Pierce-eye", which, altered to "Percy", his descendants bore, becoming among the leading nobles in the north of England (and producing the famous "Hotspur", Prince Hal's rival in "Henry IV Part One", among others). This, as Scott admitted, is only legend (the Percys took their surname from their old home in Normandy before coming over with William the Conqueror), though I find it tempting to imagine Demona being ready to try putting Canmore's eyes out when she attacked him.

Todd Jensen

PATRICK> Well, we don't know the identities of a lot of mothers. But I know I want to get Duncan's wife, Suthen in there.

But yes, Macbeth and Gruoch are both descended from Maol Chalvim I. So, yes, they are third cousins.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

So Macbeth and Gruoch are cousins? They're both descended from the same person if I'm reading that family tree right. Actually, it's a bit confusing. Unless fathers begat sons spontaneously back in those days, there's a lot of female branches missing. :P
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Okay, I've been doing some studying at Ask Greg, and Scottish History, and I've got a tiny theory here. Bear with me.

Greg has said before that the Canmores that continued the Hunt For the Demon were descended from Donald Canmore (Malcolm Canmore's son with Ingibjorg). Both Canmore, and Donald died in 1093.

Greg also said:

"She was hunted (a) because she was the only one left (as far as they knew) and (b) because of a little mishap with Canmore and one of his sons that I haven't told you about yet."

Now, Greg never said that Donald was a Hunter. Donald was 24 when he died, so he likely wouldn't have been a Hunter very long even if he was... and his kids would have been very young.

Now, on wikipedia: Malcolm was ambushed by Robert de Mowbray, Earl of Northumbria, whose lands he had devastated, near Alnwick on 13 November 1093. There he was killed by Arkil Morel, steward of Bamburgh Castle.

I think it's safe to say that, in the Gargoyles Universe, "all things are true, few are accurate."

In the Gargoyles Universe, maybe Demona got involved. Maybe she killed both Malcolm and Donald Canmore. Father and son. I think it was a grandson through Donald that became the fourth Hunter... and why Castaway hunts the gargoyles through the Quarrymen today.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

Sorry for the double post, but GargWiki finally has something that it's been needing for a long time, particularly since Clan Building vol. 2 came out.

Here it is, a Scottish Royal Family Tree. From Kenneth mac Alpin all the way down to John Castaway.

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/w/images/7/71/Familytree.jpg

Thanks to Supermorff for putting it together.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

JURGAN> I think we've all known great people who've been in relationships that we don't understand.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

Greg: I reiterate my earlier complaints, slightly modified.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

JURGAN> I think it's because Sally puts out.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

So, is Greg's response that Rand is very shallow and only stays with Sally for her looks? Because he doesn't seem that way to me. He generally seems a lot more mature than the other jocks. He's the only one who doesn't pick on Peter, and he doesn't get jealous when Peter asks Sally out, because he knows she's not interested. Also, he completely ignores her on Halloween when he's more worried about John Jameson and the space shuttle mission. I just don't really see him putting up with all of that nonsense just because she looks good. It seems to me like it's the standard "popular guy dates popular girl" because that's what the group expects, without any real personal bonding between the two. Rand seems more mature than that.

BTW, thank you Daniel for waking this room up after a slow week.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I think the more appropriate question is why does Margot put up with Brendan. He must be bringing something else to the relationship that outweighs his ever so charming personality :P
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Bishansky> I don't either, especially remembering Greg Weisman's responses to fans wondering about Rand/Sally:

Jason R. Carter writes...

1. Exactly, what *does* Rand see in Sally , anyway? Multitudes of fans are dying to know.

Greg responds...
1. Dude.


and . . .

Jason R. Carter writes...
I think I'll rephrase one of my previous questions: why does Rand put up with Sally ?

Greg responds...
And I'll more or less repeat what I said before... "Dude, why do you think ?"


. . . I guess the question in the air is, is Brendan sticking around for the same reasons? If so, ewww . . . XD

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Phoenician> I don't. Did you ever see how wide she can open her mouth? That's why Rand sticks around Sally.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

Margot . . . the only person more obnoxious I can think of is Spectacular Spider-Man's Sally Avril (and coincidentally people wonder why Rand Robertson sticks around as well d:)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Algernon>I would too if I had to deal with Margot.
Harlan Phoenix

Greg B> In fairness to Daniel, Brendan was acting like a whiney litte baby.
Algernon

Greg B:

Whoopsy. His childish mumbling and seemingly small stature on that page made me mistake him for a kid. Thanks for clearing that up, I remember him now.

Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

DANIEL> <<Chapter 5, around page 14. The one in the green gargoyle costume who was talking with Margrot earlier. He was climbing the tower and saw all the action below. >>

That's not a kid, that's Margot's husband, Brendan. He's an adult.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

GREG B: <<When did Elisa wear a wedding dress?>>

Sorry, I meant her dress in part 1 and 2. It was white, and I wasn't thinking, so I said wedding dress. *sighs*

<<He's wearing a domino mask. So is Thailog.>>

Oh, that makes sense. Also thanks for the link on Judge Roebling. Dang, Greg really does never forget minor characters.

<<Why did he bother the first time? This is Thailog, he's clearly got an oedipal complex (of a sort) going.>>

That's....really creepy but very interesting also. But I wonder if Sevarius had another reason.

<<What kid?>>

Chapter 5, around page 14. The one in the green gargoyle costume who was talking with Margrot earlier. He was climbing the tower and saw all the action below.

<<I think that's armor on his talons.>>

I like that idea, but why have it? Their talons are strong enough to break through stone anyway.

<<They're not exactly the same.>>

Really? They look awfully close. I think the difference is easier to see in the TV show than the comics.

Oh, and thanks for the info on the Illuminati and the coats. That really helps and makes perfect sense.

Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

DANIEL> <<Love Lex's sarcastic face at Fox at first."That means so much coming from you Fox.">>

I wouldn't say sarcastic so much as hostile, but yeah.

<<Xanatos ignoring the Illuminati just to play with his kid is awesome. Show's his character well, he just does whatever the heck he pleases.>>

Wait till you read Clan Building Volume 2.

<<Well, it looks like Greg's finally enjoying giving Elisa lot's of new costumes. Wedding dress and now Jasmine. >>

When did Elisa wear a wedding dress?

<<Heh, Brooklyn's still completely smitten by Angela, and she knows it just fine. (When she asks him to put on his costume)>>

Actually, I think she is completely oblivious to it.

<<"Larger than life, just like his parents." Even at the White House, Xanatos still has style. :) But what's up with the Batman mask? Inside joke?>>

He's wearing a domino mask. So is Thailog.

<<Speaking of questions, why can't I remember who Judge Roebling is?>>

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Ian_Roebling

<<Wow, so much stuff going on, and I don't want to make this to long, but why does Thailog bother with getting Elisa's genetic material anyway? Even more clones? *shudders*>>

Why did he bother the first time? This is Thailog, he's clearly got an oedipal complex (of a sort) going.

<<I really like clone Hudson's axe, and the way they do that overview from the kid's perspective with another scene inside the balcony.>>

What kid?

<<Wait, what's with Brentwood's weirdly colored claws? :/Wait, what's with Brentwood's weirdly colored claws? :/>>

I think that's armor on his talons.

<<Poor Brooklyn. Also, anyone find it confusing that Malibu and Broadway's color is exactly the same? For some reason, I kept on thinking that Broadway was one of the clones.>>

They're not exactly the same.

<<I wonder how so many characters got into the Illuminati. Did other ones just die, or did they make another number to fill in? Just seems like there's alot of them around now. Oh yeah, and it's good to see the Illuminati done well.>>

Greg has said that not all the slots are necessarily filled at any given time.

There's one number one, two number twos, all the way down to thirty-six thirty-sixes.

Add 'em all up, and you have 666 members (or at least 666 slots for members).

<<Wait, where'd the coats come from? And why did Elisa answer her own question?>>

If you look at the background, you can see the coats hanging on the wall. I think it's where the monks do their laundry.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

I finally got all my comics! YAY! I thought I'd post my thoughts that I typed up as I went through it right here. It's kind of long and random just to warn you, but maybe it'll get some discussion going.

Clan building Volume One thoughts

Love Lex's sarcastic face at Fox at first."That means so much coming from you Fox."

I'm kinda new to comics, but I love how they can slightly emphasize words by making them just slightly bolder.

Xanatos ignoring the Illuminati just to play with his kid is awesome. Show's his character well, he just does whatever the heck he pleases.

Oh look, Coyote badges on the kid's Halloween costumes.

Bronx + dog by fire = cute

Angela's face when you first see her costume looks weird. It's like she actually IS wearing a mask. And yay for cyborg Lex. Costume's exactly the same as Future Tense.

Well, it looks like Greg's finally enjoying giving Elisa lot's of new costumes. Wedding dress and now Jasmine.

WOW Thailog looks TOTALLY AWESOME.

The silence between the 2 couples is great. (G and Delilah, Morgan and Elisa)

Heh, Brooklyn's still completely smitten by Angela, and she knows it just fine. (When she asks him to put on his costume)

Yuck. I shouldn't have looked that closely at what Broadway's eating all on one plate. >_<

"Larger than life, just like his parents." Even at the White House, Xanatos still has style. :) But what's up with the Batman mask? Inside joke?

Good, Thailog needs a maniacal laugh every now and then.

I don't know about you, but I love the design for Talon, they put alot of emotion in his face very well. To bad we don't get to see him and Elisa interact.

Love the scene "So, we having fun yet?" (Morgan) Nice to get a laugh in with all this epic plot going on.

So wait, what was Owen trying to do? Just avoid the castle from getting demolished yet again? I mean, there was still a fight and all, did he just want no guns involved? Seriously, he could have stopped everything with his whole army up in the towers. (Where'd they come from anyway?)

Speaking of questions, why can't I remember who Judge Roebling is?

Ok, Super Gargoyle is just plan AWESOME. His wings make for a nice cape. I like how he hardly even cares about Broadway and Lex, just mentioning Angela and Delila at first.

Wow, so much stuff going on, and I don't want to make this to long, but why does Thailog bother with getting Elisa's genetic material anyway? Even more clones? *shudders*

I really like clone Hudson's axe, and the way they do that overview from the kid's perspective with another scene inside the balcony.

Moi? Seriously, Thailog is just so awesome in this whole thing, I can't even begin to say how.

My favorite scene is still where Lex says "Dude, you're really making me look bad." I mean, he's in his Future Tense costume for crying out loud. Creepy as hell to me. Foreshadowing anyone? :D

Wait, what's with Brentwood's weirdly colored claws? :/

Poor Brooklyn. Also, anyone find it confusing that Malibu and Broadway's color is exactly the same? For some reason, I kept on thinking that Broadway was one of the clones.

I wonder how so many characters got into the Illuminati. Did other ones just die, or did they make another number to fill in? Just seems like there's alot of them around now. Oh yeah, and it's good to see the Illuminati done well.

Ok, Angela looks REALLY weird at the start of chapter 6. It's like she's an old lady! Or maybe a zombie. Or both!

Ok seriously, a giant bowl? That's the best they can do? I mean really, that seems just way to small, even for Avalon to work with. Why not another lake or river?

Wait, where'd the coats come from? And why did Elisa answer her own question?

Oh no. Not Jalapena again.

OOOOOHhhhh, the monks are talking in another language. Cool. Nice that Greg could finally do that to.

Ag, Angela still looks creepy. (O_O)

Dang, Coldstone's good at acting.

Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

I was pondering how Macbeth and Hakon could be as tall as Tony and Glasses since it was such a malnourished time and people have generally grown taller over the centuries. But apparently their height is pretty accurate: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040902090552.htm
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Those are awesome production images you posted:

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Image:Chart1.JPG
http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Image:Chart2.JPG

The size comparisons are surprising. At least Brooklyn and Lexington seem small to me. And the bad colors and visible claws indicate the models are either old or partially wrong. The 2nd image is much more accurate. But any production material is cool.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Ahem...

I hate Nokkar's ship.

That is all.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

This video has nothing to do with Gargoyles but has a few funny things to say about Disney.

Language NSFW

http://www.cracked.com/video_18165_stuff-that-must-have-happened-little-mermaid-cover-approval.html

Lurker

Landon> Overall that is a cool tattoo. The two things I noticed is that his horns look too close and he seems to have 4 fingers (Or are they called talons? Or claws?)

I would like to see a photo of it colored in.

Lurker

This is a pretty cool, well-designed tattoo: http://twitpic.com/1dq1ol (NSFW background on Twitter user)
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Greg - You should initiate a proposition creating an unfunded government program that tells people how great the weather is.

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Louisiana (at least, NORTH Louisiana) is a perfectly respectable state to live in when it comes to weather, natural disasters and such. Yeah it's hot and humid, but there's not a lot that will kill you. South Louisiana on the other hand...

Either way, I'm living in North Carolina now, and the weather here is still very new to me. We're in the midst of pollen season now. There's a coat of yellow on my car, and I have coughing fits all the time because of all the pollen. Urgh.

Rebel

Mother nature pretty much will screw you over somehow no matter where you live. Personally I like experiencing a full four seasons. You have the same weather too long, and inevitably someone will complain about it. I don't now what my childhood would be like if I didn't have to deal with the occasional blizzard. Yeah they sucked, but in their wake, they left a ton of snow and one family would built this luge-like track to sled in from all the snow and everyone in the neighborhood was invited. Or things like playing in the puddles in the early spring rain (I live on the peak of a hill, so no flooding ever), and jumping in the leaf piles in the fall. New England is my comfort zone, and it would take a lot for me to give it up. As nice as Southern California was when I was there, the thought of an earthquake comming on just scares the living crap out of me. I know people can't live their life in fear of all the random "what-ifs", but the idea of them is just unsettling to me.
Andrea

I visit Ananheim about three times a year, and I LOVE THE AREA, but I would NEVER, EVER live there. I'll take the snow of Canada any day.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #25 and movie #31... wish me luck!

I don't think there's a place in the world that doesn't have some kind of drawback in terms of the weather or potential for natural disasters. Just ask all of my neighbors who are till pumping water out of their basements days after the torrential rains in the northeast. And even they are lucky compared to the people close to the coast or rivers, whose houses were completely flooded.
Demonskrye - [<---The Secret of Kells at The Ink and Pixel Club]

<<Perfect weather all year around... yeah... except for that time of year where it rains like hell and the floods and mudslides come... or that other time of year when fires sweep across the landscape.>>

I'd take that over the humid, sauna summers of New York. Not to mention the freezing blizzard winters.

As for the fires, depends on where you live. I never had a problem where I was.

Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

Perfect weather all year around... yeah... except for that time of year where it rains like hell and the floods and mudslides come... or that other time of year when fires sweep across the landscape.
Patrick
"And kids eat chocolate eggs, because of the color of the chocolate, and the color of the wood on the cross..." - Eddie Izzard

Bishansky>"Yeah, I think it's worth putting up with the occasional earthquake."

Exactly. In fact, I totally outed myself to some random friends as a non-local with my excitement regarding yesterday's shakes. By the of the day my own roommate lost his patience and said, "Shut up about the earthquake man, we get these every other week!" d:

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

PAUL> Have you ever been to southern California? Beautiful area, perfect weather all year round? Yeah, I think it's worth putting up with the occasional earthquake.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?

Earthquakes and other natural disasters do seem to raise some questions about the habits of humans, I think. It's common knowledge that earthquakes are a fairly regular occurrence in parts of California and the Baja Peninsula, and that New Orleans is (or at least was) mostly below sea level and adjacent to the Gulf of Mexico. In light of the obvious threat of earthquakes and hurricanes in areas like that, why would there be such a high concentration of humans in any area like that?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Vicky> More accurately, the 7.2 was about 19 miles outside Mexicali, Mexico just north of the Baja Peninsula . . . that said, I'm in Los Angeles and I totally felt the building sway (not wildly, but noticeably) for a good minute. My family back in Phoenix, Arizona felt some tremors as well, and I know there's a few other LA folk that visit the CR probably felt something yesterday.

Though I have yet to hear of any recent reports regarding damage or injury, I know the good news is that yesterday's quake was relatively in the middle of no where (my family for several years has driven through the Baja on several occasions), and thus even with its magnitude we won't see anything like the disaster in Haiti.

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Tenth!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Man is what he is, a wild animal with the will to survive, and (so far) the ability, against all competition. Unless one accepts that, anything one says about morals, war, politics, you name it - is nonsense. Corrent morals arise from knowing what man is - not what do-gooders and well-meaning old Aunt Nellies would like him to be." -Robert Heinlein ("Staship Troopers")

Ninth!
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

8TH!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]

Lucky number seven. If I were so inclined at the moment, I'd make a joke about feeling prime.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Sorry for double post. I heard there was a 7.2 earthquake in southern california, hope everyones ok who lives in the area
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

6th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

Number #5 checkin' in.

Man, what a slow night, apparently.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Fourth!!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>O.o)> Earthquake...

Third, and on my LAST Day of Spring Break . . . next stop, Graduation o.O
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

(2nd)Second!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

First! Ah, the joy of Spring Break (when else do I get to stay up this late on a Sunday?).
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]