A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 1, 2012

Index : Hide Images

SUPERMORFF - Good comment, and as you said, it's a pity you posted it so close to the room being wiped. It explains all the more why Greg won't give away spoilers now, and why he regrets the spoilers he revealed some years ago (though back then, most of us probably thought we would never get any new "Gargoyles" stories and that these "Ask Greg" revelations would be the only way we'd ever find out anything more about the Gargoyles Universe.

[SPOILER] One difference between the two cases you mentioned. The "Young Justice" revelations you spoke of were all, from what I've gathered, taken from the comics, and would have been "spoiled" by the source material. (Which might be one advantage to having only a general knowledge about DC Comics when watching the show; certainly, Greg's made it accessible to those who don't know the comics well.)

The example you cited for Merlin, on the other hand, is Greg's invention. The medieval stories about Merlin do make his father a non-human, but none of them ever identified that being with Oberon. Geoffrey of Monmouth made Merlin's father an incubus or spirit of the air; Robert de Boron changed it to the Devil, in an attempt to create a false prophet. But the notion of Merlin's father being Oberon is specifically Greg's, and knowing the source material wouldn't help the audience to guess that.

I wonder if it might have been partly because of those "Ask Greg" spoilers that Greg developed the idea of Duval and Peredur as separate characters in "Clan-Building". That definitely surprised us since we'd thought until then that Duval was Percival. Now we find somebody else at the top of the Illuminati chain of command in Carbonek who could be Percival ("Peredur" is a Welsh version of Percival's name, and we know from the Stone of Destiny that Peredur had been in Arthur's service). Bishansky's come up with an ingenious way of reconciling this - which would also tie in with the big question of how the Illuminati leadership can make use of the Holy Grail, when a lot of the things that the Society's done are the kind of things that the Grail isn't likely to approve of - but for now, it's a big mystery. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

I'll probably regret posting this after the room wipes and my comment goes unnoticed, but... Young Justice.

[SPOILER] Yesterday's episode is the third in a row that has contained a fairly big reveal that comics fans saw coming. Seriously, if the tag wasn't clear, there are spoilers.

M'gann is actually a white martian. Superboy has some human DNA from Lex Luthor. Sportsmaster is Artemis' dad... what a twist! All of these happened in the comics too, so people that knew this were particularly attuned to the extensive foreshadowing. Even though I was prepared for them not to be true (YJ is its own continuity after all), it just wasn't surprising when the revelation actually came. [/SPOILER]


None of this detracts too much from the great show, but it leads into my next point, which is actually about Gargoyles (and Pendragon).

[SPOILER] Quite a while ago (as in, way back in '98), Greg mentioned that he had mixed feelings about all the future plans that he'd revealed on this site over the years. He specifically mentioned a potential scene from Pendragon: King Arthur and his companions come up against Oberon, who takes down Arthur, Griff and Blanchefleur with minimal effort. Then Oberon turns to Merlin, who asks "What will you do now, father?" Oberon is Merlin's father! What a brilliant twist! Except... we already knew that.

I guess I just wonder if Greg has (in the past 14 years) thought more about this. Obviously we've had the comics in the meantime, which certainly played with my expectations while never actually deviating from Greg's master plan. And now there's Young Justice, in which a series of similar twists have had their impact dampened because so many people already saw them coming. [/SPOILER]

Supermorff

Does Disney have plans to release the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD in 2012 of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3? Also I got an email from Disney that there are tentative plans to release the rest of the Gargoyles Series on DVD in 2012 and no further details are available at this time. Are the plans definitive yet?
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny Modlin

Todd: Well, there is a reason for that, LOL...

Greg Weisman says:

"(FYI, the real Cedric Harris and Tri Chung were my freshman roommates. In real life, however, neither are currently members of the NYPD or their Gargoyle Taskforce.)"

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"We came on the Sloop John B., my grandfather and me..." - The Beach Boys

I decided to reread the series bible for "Roswell Conspiracies" after the discussion here, and noticed that two of the operatives in it were named Cedric Harris and Tri Chung. Those names looked familiar, so I checked my copy of "Clan-Building Volume One" and, yep, they were both members of the Gargoyle Taskforce. Greg really does take care not to waste anything.
Todd Jensen

TODD> Heh, there do seem to be a lot of interesting parallels between fairy folklore and modern day urban myth surrounding "alien" visitors. It's funny you should mention the Light, 'cause there's one part of the bible in particular that put me in mind of Young Justice's big bad ensemble...

[SPOILER] THE AGENDA
It's taken decades to recover from the Cadre debacle. Soon the time will come to strike. The same mistakes will not be made again. It doesn't take a World War and an alien coup to take over the planet. All it takes is an AGENDA and a little bit of patience.

There's still a need to gather allies, but it's going to be easier this time. And one big reason it's going to be easier is the Alliance itself. The Sidhe and the Chasta don't like their treaties. And nobody likes the Alliance's policy of Containment. The Alliance itself has inadvertently created the greatest threat to humanity's existence: a rallying point, a common enemy to every alien on Earth. It's the Agenda vs. the Alliance in a fight to the finish. I'll say it again. Things are about to get nasty. [/SPOILER]


I know it seems a bit goofy to be posting spoiler tags for a series that was never made but I want to encourage folks to read the series bible themselves.

Algernon

I read the "Roswell Bible" and enjoyed it, especially the part about the various alien races inspiring various mythical beings (faerie-folk, vampires, werewolves, etc.). I got a particular kick out of the Vinae (I hope I'm spelling the name right; it's been a while since I read it), who were modelled on gargoyles. I ought to have known that Greg Weisman would find a way of bringing them in somewhere, with a premise that hospitable to them. (We know that Greg's a "Buffy" fan; I have a suspicion that if he'd ever got to write an episode for "Buffy", he'd have had living gargoyles turn up in Sunnydale. With different rules, obviously, than the gargoyles we're used to, but I'm certain that living gargoyles would fit into a town that already has vampires, werewolves, witches, and so on in it.)

I only saw a few episodes of the television series (St. Louis showed the opening two-parter, then dropped it; later, a few more episodes aired on a different station, including a funny "Superman" parody), but I don't think it quite grabbed me (beyond my interest in the premise, with the notion that the aliens inspired various legends - one episode I saw had some Cyclops robots, and one had a large wooden stick stuck in its eye, presumably a reference to Odysseus blinding Polyphemus).

One extra thought about "Roswell Conspiracies"; I once thought of writing a story with a similar premise, though the reverse. In it, the UFO phenomenon was the work of a group of young faerie-folk (they called their organization the Celestial League, which was also the name of the story), who thought it would be fun to impersonate extra-terrestrials and see how humans responded to it. (They were inspired by the Orson Welles 1938 "War of the Worlds" broadcast.) Unfortunately, I never got the story itself off the ground (largely because I couldn't work out enough about the main characters and the plot), but I had a lot of fun drawing up a background timeline with a revisionist look at UFO history. (Roswell got into it, with a twist. In the immediate aftermath of World War II, the faerie-folk rulers become uneasy about human military technology, which could be almost as powerful as faerie magic now - especially the A-bomb - and meet in private with a few influential people in the United States and Great Britain to work on keeping Faerie's existence secret from the world, in the hopes of avoiding a human-faerie war. These influential people start an organization called Magna XII, designed to help mislead the public into thinking that any weirdness caused by the faerie-folk is really extra-terrestial activity - the Celestial League's plans help out here - with a tone of "Keep them watching the skies instead of the hollow hills". The Roswell incident, in this story, was actually one of their misdirection tactics; in the story, what really crash-landed at Roswell was a top-secret piece of spying equipment which the U.S. government didn't want the Soviet Union to know it had, so it claims that what landed was a weather balloon, and Magna XII took advantage of it being too high-tech for a mere weather balloon to spread rumors that it was a flying saucer, as part of its general misdirection policy as well as ensuring some Cold War secrecy.)

(After seeing the early episodes of "Young Justice" on DVD, incidentally, I recently had the image of the upper-echelon members of Magna XII - they're the ones who know about the deal with the Faerie Council; the lower-echelon members think it's misdirection to keep hostile nation-states and terrorists from finding out about the latest U.S. defense projects - meeting with the members of the Faerie Council in a similar way to the Light's agents, like Sportsmaster, meeting with the Light, except that the Faerie Council and Magna XII wouldn't be the antagonists in the story - more "decoy antagonists" who seem threatening at first, but who turn out to also be trying to stop the real antagonist, like the protagonists.)

I wonder, by the way, what happened at Roswell in the Gargoyles Universe. I doubt it was actual alien activity - unless Nokkar's really been doing a terrible job of monitoring Earth.

Todd Jensen

Brainiac> Indeed. *raises hand*
Ross

Brainiac: >raises hand<
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"We came on the Sloop John B., my grandfather and me..." - The Beach Boys

Show of hands...how many of those here who've seen Insecurity were highly amused by [SPOILER] Evil Spidey [/SPOILER]?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Algernon: I did - many times, in fact - and I agree with you 100%. Greg W. clearly invested an enormous amount of time into building a world and an analogous history that felt intriguing and believable...the two "versions" of the Roswell incident itself were fantastic to read in tandem.

Like you, I never saw the final version...but good Lord would I have loved this one.

...And in other news, "Insecurity" was incredible.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"We came on the Sloop John B., my grandfather and me..." - The Beach Boys

TODD> Funny you bring up Roswell, Todd. I was actually rereading Greg's Roswell Conspiracies bible the other day. And damn but this thing would have made a kickass show. (Never saw the version of the show that was developed post Weisman, so I can't comment.)

One thing that struck me on reading is how the outline Greg's Roswell treatment had a very similar vibe to Young Justice's "secrets and lies" theme.

Anyone else here read the Roswell bible? I'd be interested in all your thoughts on it?

Algernon

...Perhaps it's a squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease type of deal, but I'm finally back in! Oh, glorious glory of...gloriness!

Todd: Thanks for your concern. And your instincts were indeed on the money there; there's no particular connection between J'onn and the Roswell incident, so far as I am aware at least, in the original comics. If I remember correctly, DC's version involves aliens but not Martians.

And feel free to shoot me an e-mail with those types of questions if you're ever unsure, LOL. S'what I'm here for. XD

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"We came on the Sloop John B., my grandfather and me..." - The Beach Boys

MASTERDRAMON - Sorry to hear about your troubles, and I hope you can fix them soon.

I really ought to be going over the questions in the queue myself, but most of them these days revolve around "Young Justice", and I'm often not sure whether a question might be an original idea in disguise or a reference to something that happened in DC Comics. I've deleted a couple that felt too close to the former, though even then I wasn't entirely sure and was doing it to be on the safe side. (As an example, one asked if there was any connection between Martian Manhunter and Roswell. Now, the Roswell incident might have gotten into DC Comics at some point, thanks to it being one of the most famous incidents in UFO mythology, but I didn't know if it *had* been linked to Martian Manhunter in the comics or not, so I decided I'd better delete it.)

("Gargoyles" questions were a lot simpler, since the bulk of the cast were the series' invention - with a few obvious exceptions, of course, such as Macbeth, Puck, and King Arthur.)

Todd Jensen

Brainiac> Oh. I thought maybe you were making a reference to The Promise and [SPOILER] the copious use of "sweetie" [/SPOILER].
B

If anyone's been wondering where I've been (less likely) or why the YJ questions sat around for about five days without getting approved (more likely), I haven't been able to access either Station 8 or the GargWiki since Sunday night for...whatever reason. I sent an e-mail to Gore on Wednesday to see if there was anything he could do, but haven't gotten a response yet.

I'm logging in from work right now to clear out the queue; hopefully I'll be able to get on from home again soon. In the meantime, cheers all!

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]

Anyone buy a Mega Millions ticket? It's up to $640 million annuity and $462 million cash.
Anthony Tini

B> Go looking for "Avatar Book Four" on YouTube and you'll see what I mean.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Brainiac> What do you mean? There is no Book Four.
B

Algernon> Two words: Book Four.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

ANTIYONDER> Sometimes, I think the Avatar franchise deliberately goes out of its way to mind-screw the shippers.
Algernon

As it was said on another forum and in the comments section - "Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated" wasn't on the list and it's getting a 2nd season. So I'm skeptical, but optimistic for ThunderCats.

I can't wait until Korra starts. I was going to watch the first two eps again but they have been taken down.

Anthony Tini

..... and a terrible cartoon gets cancelled.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/03/looks_like_the_thundercats_have_been_sent_back_to.php

I predict a long, and happy run for Korra though. Two episodes in and Korra is great.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

I don't suppose anyone here has heard of or read the "Avatar The Last Airbender" book, "Love Potion #8". Yeah it's the third in a series of those Ready-To-Read books, but it's the only book to contain an original story rather than being an adaptation of an episode from the series.

Takes place between Book 3 Chapters 2 (The Headband) and Chapter 9 (Nightmares & Daydreams), and features the singing nomads Chong & Lily from "The Cave of Two Lovers".

Not to write home over and it's of course nothing carrys over, but it's a fun little read (though if you didn't care for the Avatar filler, you might be best off not reading it). Though I did get a chuckle from this bit:

[SPOILER] "I think this potion is making me think strange things," she (Toph) said, "because I sort of want to hug somebody."

"I know what you mean!" Sokka said putting his arms around her. "All this talk of love makes me miss Yue and Suki," he said dreamily.

That wasn't what Toph wanted to hear. She abruptly got up. "Uh, sure. I'm going for a walk. See ya."

Which is accompanied by a picture of Toph pushing Sokka (wondering what's up with her). [/SPOILER]

Antiyonder

Young Justice will get new episodes all through April as well with Young Justice: Invasion continuing into May: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1294
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

SUPERMORFF - No, the two Roman books ("Legionary" and "Gladiator") were written by Philip Matyszak, and "Knight" was written by Michael Prestwich.

"Samurai" did get me wondering about Brooklyn's time in feudal Japan during his Timedancing. We don't know in exactly which year (or even which century) his visit took place in, or whether Japanese gargoyles shared their human neighbors' distrust of foreigners. But I wonder whether Brooklyn's coming from outside Japan might have made some of the Japanese gargoyles he met there cautious towards him at first, including Katana (Greg Weisman's mentioned that Brooklyn and Katana have a Benedick-and-Beatrice-type relationship).

Todd Jensen

Todd> That's okay. The book does sound pretty cool. I'll have to keep an eye out. Did Stephen Turnbull write the other books in the series too?
Supermorff

SUPERMORFF - Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The book's written by a modern-day author, but imagined as set in the early 17th century, with some mentions of how Japan is discouraging foreign visitors with their customs, though allowing a few merchants to visit as long as they follow heavy strictures. (The section on the English visitors includes a reference to their defeat of the Spanish Armada a few decades before; the storm that wrecked the Armada is called a "kamikaze", reflecting Japan's own memory of how a similar great storm wrecked Kublai Khan's invasion fleet in the late 13th century.)
Todd Jensen

Todd> Aw, I was hoping it was going to be from before Tokyo becoming the capital of Japan (which, now I have a chance to look it up, was in 1869). I did read an actual book on Japan from about that period (actually it was a bit later, round about 1900) which wasn't humorous but did contain some bizarre information. A highly detailed description of seppuku that the author had witnessed, for example (by the time of writing, samurai didn't actually disembowel themselves - even before the knife touched their belly they were beheaded by their second). Information about the marriage ceremony, including how many types of condiment the various guests were required to bring. I remember also about the tooth blackening, when they coated their teeth with a weird mixture of powdered iron and water and polished them, which was a method of beautification. I suspect your book is about an earlier period of history than mine, though (which was, at the time of writing, fairly current).
Supermorff

Anyone watch the new episode of "ThunderCats" that aired an hour before "Young Justice"? It was pretty good. [SPOILER] I enjoyed that they introduced the characters of Addicus and Kaynar (who were Monkian and Jackalman from the original series). [/SPOILER]
Anthony Tini

SUPERMORFF - It just came out. (The other books in the series have similar pieces of humor; the one on knights, for example, contains such remarks as gunpowder being a passing fad that will soon fade out of warfare, and the Order of the Garter having no future, since the name is too silly.)
Todd Jensen

Todd> Yeah, that's me on YJ Wiki.

Also, that is a hilarious quote from the Samurai book! When was it published?

Supermorff

Thanks. The latter seemed more likely to me, but I wanted to make certain.

Incidentally, for anybody who's interested in the Japanese aspects of the Gargoyles Universe (the Ishimura clan, Yama, Katana), I just bought a book that's part of a series from Thames & Hudson of "unofficial manuals" for warriors in various historical periods, entitled "Samurai" by Stephen Turnbull. (Previous books in the series were about Roman legionaries, medieval knights, and Roman gladiators.) The book gives a good description of both samurai and feudal Japan; I've only read the first chapter, but it's already given me a good feel for this setting (a setting which Brooklyn will someday find himself deposited in by the Phoenix). It even has a few pieces of humor, such as in its geographical overview of Japan: "Edo [then the capital city of the Shogun] is so much more important and so much more splendid than the emperor's capital of Kyoto... that some have taken to calling Edo 'Tokyo' (eastern capital). This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it will catch on."

Todd Jensen

The latter.
B
B

By the way, a question here for everyone/anyone who's seen "Agendas".

[SPOILER] Greg's cast list for this episode includes the voice of Zatara, who's already been taken over by Dr. Fate. Does he somehow speak separately from Dr. Fate in this episode? Or is it a case of his voice merging with Dr. Fate in his lines (kind of like Anubis's voice merging with Jackal's and the Emir's when they were his avatars in "Grief")? [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Todd> There's a reason the modern term "fan" is derived from the word it is...
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

I'm starting to think of Winston Churchill's definition of a fanatic as "someone who can't change his mind and who won't change the subject".
Todd Jensen

Now that's dedication.
Rebel

I got an email from Disney that there are tentative plans to release the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD in 2012 and no further details are available at this time.
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny Modlin

We should all call Walt Disney Home Entertainment at 1-800-723-4763 to keep showing interest and demand for the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3 for tentative plans to become definitive plans for the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD for this year of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3. Ask them if there are plans to release the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD this year of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3. I plan on getting the Gargoyles DVD's of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3 this year to complete the series.
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny Modlin

Is Disney releasing the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD this year of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3? Are the plans definitive for the rest of the Gargoyles series on DVD this year of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3?
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny Modlin

SUPERMORFF - Thanks.

By the way, I've noticed a "Supermorff" as one of the contributors at the Young Justice Wiki? Is that you?

Todd Jensen

Brainiac> Yes, so I've learned since. Sigh... oh well, I can wait a few more weeks.
Ross

Todd> Oh, I seem to recall you mentioning the Merlin one some time ago. Good luck finding a publisher.
Supermorff

Ross> You're gonna have to either wait for the official premiere in April or use some less-than-completely-legal channels now, Ross. The internet premiere on http://www.korranation.com was for last weekend only.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

SUPERMORFF - Thanks. My story isn't as radical as your premise is, though that's all I can say about it.

(I did see a humorous children's retelling of the story from the Sheriff's perspective, where he - among other things - viewed King Richard as extremely irresponsible to go running off like that on a Crusade rather than staying home to govern England, with at least Prince John staying at home.)

My story won't be out for a long time, I fear - as I said, it's still in the outline stage. I do have a far more completed story about Merlin (which is also unorthodox), though; I'm looking for a publisher for it.

Todd Jensen

Tenth.

Todd> I look forward to hearing how your Robin Hood novel progresses. I tried writing a story about Robin Hood some 6 years ago, in which Robin was the villain and the Sheriff of Nottingham was the good guy. Then a month later I heard Russell Crowe and Ridley Scott were making a movie with that exact premise, with Russell Crowe as the Sheriff, and I gave up on it.

Of course, Ridley Scott and Russell Crowe's Robin Hood movie didn't end up using the turnabout premise, and was more of a traditional origin story, and Crowe ended up playing Robin. I still really want to see the original spec script, though.

Supermorff

NINE
(as always)

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Eighth.
Spen

Seventh!

I'd give my opinion of the episodes but...I've only just now been reminded they were happening... Heh. Must pay more attention to the dates of these things... Meh, it's late, I'll watch them tomorrow. But I'm all psyched up now, thanks!

Ross

OK (666) Sixth!!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!

(5th)Fifth!!!!! [SPOILER] I wonder if Superman's behavior to Superboy Conner might be because of a previous encounter with Bizarro or Bizarros. There's no reason to assume Superman hasn't had previous experience with failed clones. I'm glad to see his humanity played up in Young Justice. Unlike in other shows. [/SPOILER]
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!

Fifth

Speaking of "Welcome to Republic City", what did everyone think of the first two episodes of Legend of Korra?


[SPOILER] I really liked both episodes so far; the thing that I really don't like in this show is the music, especially in the pilot episode during the "escape scenes". The music is some kind of godawful jazz that I don't like one bit.

In "Leaf in the Wind" I like how the thing that finally proved to be a breakthrough for Korra's air-bending training was pro-bending. We still don't really know this character yet, but she's very fiery, so it makes sense that it would take a battle to teach her the lesson about beind a leaf in the wind.

Seems blatantly obvious that they're setting Mako up to be her love interest. That's fine, I suppose. Part of me wants her to end up with Bolin just because it would be more refreshing for the female lead to ultimately select the "beta male" instead. [/SPOILER]

Rebel

Fourth.

Brainiac> Give it time.

Chip
"The next time you set up shop in the biggest state, don't pick the area that's only ten miles wide. Welcome to Canada, idiot"--Frank Zhang

3rd
Anthony Tini

SECOND!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka

Primero.

I'd go with Welcome to Republic City, but with only two known episode titles, that seems kind of foolish.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!