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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending September 13, 2015

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Advanced technology is pretty common in Greg's work. Remember the handheld holographic tech in Spider-Man and Young Justice?
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman

The Gargoyles universe has always been a step or two ahead of the real world technology wise, Arthur's plate armour, Castle Wyvern's mid to late medieval construction style. So if Greg wanted to write a story obstinately set in '97 where everybody suddenly has a smart-phone, it wouldn't be that much of a blow to my own suspension of disbelief.
Algernon

Despite there being an airing gab of over twenty years, re-runs exist. I could see Disney doing well running the show again then the continuation after, everyone who needs to be acquainted/reacquainted can be. This could also promote DVD sales wring out the nostalgia factor.
Inland
Signature:

Technically, it's "anyone who isn't Xanatos or one of his employees," since Owen had a cell phone too.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Greg B> Well, that and the New York skyline (to say nothing of The Mirror in particular).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Gotta agree with Al. I don't think Disney would give a crap over the de-canonization of TGC. Greg could easily pick up where he left off on TV. The only thing dating the series is the lack of cell phones for anyone who isn't Xanatos.
Greg Bishansky

SPEN - I'm afraid I've never given King Bladorthin enough thought to form a theory on him. Truth to tell, I'm not certain that Tolkien himself ever worked out who King Bladorthin was, beyond a name in describing the glories of the dwarf-treasure in the Lonely Mountain. He did this a few other times, such as the scene in "The Lord of the Rings" when Aragorn tells the Fellowship in Moria that Gandalf is as sure to find his way home as "the cats of Queen Beruthiel" - Tolkien admitted later that he wasn't sure who they were (though eventually writing a little posthumous note that Beruthiel was an ancient and really nasty Queen of Gondor who used her cats to spy on people until her husband the King banished her and them).

"Bladorthin", by the way, was the first-draft name for Gandalf (whose name Tolkien originally gave to the dwarf leader whom he'd later rename Thorin Oakenshield).

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

Todd: Random off the wall question unrelated to anything. As you are on the very short list of Tolkien scholors I know, I was wondering, what is your personal theory regarding king Bladorthin from the Hobbit? I've read about ten different opinions about him, and I'm looking for something resembling a definitive answer.
Spen

ED> Honestly, I don't think the Powers That Be at Disney would really notice a decanonization of TGC. I mean it's not like A Goofy Movie ever bothers trying to explain where Peg and Pistol got to
Algernon - [padraig dot j dot griffin at hotmail dot com]

"Gargoyles 2198" is a closer analogue to the revived "Doctor Who" anyway. Set much later on but still about the same characters -- the Doctor in DW and the Manhattan clan in 2198.

I can't see how a television revival of the original series would work. As far as Disney are concerned, the show was wrapped up with a bow. Are we going to have a third version of "The Journey"? Are Disney really going to buy into decanonising 13 episodes of a series they'd be trying to make bankable again? How would you adapt "The Rock" which is surely almost totally unfilmable? A 20-30 year time jump would be just as bad -- so much would have changed that a very complex tapestry would have to be reintroduced with the added complexity of everything that's happened in between.

I think the future of classic "Gargoyles" is in comics or possibly radio plays -- some kind of niche production. Even the spin-offs are very heavily tied to the original show. Any kind of television revival would more or less have to be "2198" -- a clear jump-on point for new and old viewers.

At the moment though, as much as I love "Gargoyles", my big immediate hope is more "Rain of the Ghosts".

Ed

Returning to the "reboot discussion" that we had late last week, I had a few more "compare and contrast" thoughts about the possible revival of "Gargoyles" and the actual revival of "Doctor Who" (since Jurgan brought up the latter).

"Doctor Who" had one big advantage over "Gargoyles" through such a revival - although the original series had run far longer than "Gargoyles" did (beginning in 1963, the day after the Kennedy assassination) and had a lot more episodes, it also had a simpler set-up. Just one full regular, the Doctor (two if you count the TARDIS as a character - many episodes indicated that it was alive in a way), plus a companion (and since companions come and go in the series - the role is constant, but different people fill it) who could be introduced at the start of the revival. The Doctor travels all over the universe, up and down its timeline, so each story is generally set in a different location. And as a time traveler, he's not linked to any one era, so you don't have to give too much thought to what he'd been doing during the years between the original series' end and the new series' beginning - from his perspective, the time since his last televised adventure and the first new one wouldn't necessarily be the same as that between the actual episodes in real life.

But "Gargoyles" has a larger group of regulars (the clan's up to thirteen members at the end of "Clan-Building" if you count Eggwardo - plus Elisa). It's centered in a specific location (present-day Manhattan), and the years go by at the same rate for the characters in the series as for the audience. Which makes the kind of return that "Doctor Who" could do much more complicated.

"Doctor Who"'s revival did use one off-stage event (set during the hiatus period) to simplify things, of course - the Time War, which wiped out the Time Lords and Gallifrey. (Alongside the above-mentioned simplifying effect, it also added to the Doctor's characterization - he's not only the last of his kind, but now burdened with the guilt of destroying his own people, even if he saw it at the time as necessary - and provided a new reason for aliens invading Earth - they're escaping the devastation the Time War inflicted upon their home planets.) I wondered briefly if a "Gargoyles" revival could use a similar "hiatus cataclysm" to simplify things (say, Castaway's anti-gargoyle campaign working well enough to slaughter nearly all the gargoyles around the world and force the few survivors into hiding all over again, with the series opening with a new human character meeting those last survivors and becoming a friend to them as Elisa was) - but I don't think that would work too well. (I can certainly understand now why the abandoned live-action adaptation was apparently intended to work around a single new gargoyle character, before Disney lost interest in it.)

A spin-off might be a simpler approach. "The New Olympians" might be the easiest to do, since the title characters are introduced to the audience through Terry's eyes and so you wouldn't need to have seen the original episode from the Avalon World Tour to work out who they are. (It would also have the advantage of the title characters being based on Greek mythology, giving them some immediate familiarity - indeed, Disney might find the idea of the spin-off all the more appealing thanks to the popularity of the Percy Jackson series.) "Pendragon"'s also rooted in a familiar legend, but would require more backstory-explanation about Arthur's awakening, return to the modern world, and meeting Griff. "Gargoyles 2198" would certainly overcome the timeline problem, but might require some time explaining the background as well, more, certainly, than if it had come out while "Gargoyles" was still on or shortly after the series had ended. As for the other spin-offs - I'll let others give their thoughts on them.

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

Hmmmmm. Paul goes with a Fibonacci reference, one of my favorite mathematical sequences, but Ross goes with the Labors of Herakles minus those not recognized by Eurystheus...

...I'm gonna go with Paul as the returning favorite, but it was close. My personal fascination with the Golden Ratio/Mean and the required loss of the Lernean Hydra (as well as the cleansing of the Augeas) are just enough to tip it in his favor.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Nemean Lion, Ceryneian Hind, Erymanthian Boar, Stymphalian Birds, Cretan Bull, mares of Diomedes, belt of Hippolyta, cattle of Geryon, apples of the Hesperides, and Cerberus.
Ross

Cassandra, Blackwall, Iron Bull, Solas, Dorian, Vivienne, Varric, Sera, and Cole!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Come on, Ryuko! Get naked! I know for a fact that you - yes, you - are NOT inferior to Lady Satsuki! Your boobs are WAAAY bigger than hers! WAAAAAY BIGGER!!! I know, 'cuz I saw 'em! That Ryuko, my family said, she's got a great rack! We were all talking about what a slamming body you have! So perk up, and stop getting embarassed! Rip your clothes off, and get NAAAAKEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!" - Mako Mankanshoku

The first composite number in the Fibonacci sequence.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Maia, Electra, Taygete, Alcyone, Celaeno, Sterope & Merope
Algernon - [padraig dot j dot griffin at hotmail dot com]

Ah, the perfection of sixth...and a lovely Labor Day to boot!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Fifth!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]

Four.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

Third? This late?
Spen

In TWO days I'll be turning 27.
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman

FIRST.

A safe and happy Labor Day Weekend to all celebrating :)

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka