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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
I recently watched "Goliath Chronicles" episode "Journey" and found it interesting that there were female quarrymen. I felt having the female quarrymen was a good idea and kind of original. I was curious if the later season three episodes featured any female quarrymen, or female voices for quarrymen?
I don't recall what they did after "The Journey" in the Goliath Chronicles on this issue. It's been over ten years since I last saw any of those episodes. In the comics, there are definitely male and female Quarrymen.
In "Revelations" we learned that by joining the Illuminati they get good dental care. So the question I'm asking you is this: What other benefits are there to joining the Illuminati? How about the Quarrymen?
1. You'lll have to wait and see.
2. How about 'em!
CLAN BUILDING: ISSUE 1 - NIGHTWATCH
First point: I like that you cut out Banquo and Fleance - they are established characters, working for Macbeth, and sticking them in with the Quarrymen seemed like just treating them as extras (I'm assuming that they'll be used again if/when Macbeth makes an appearance). The mother and the jogger were better for such a role - while they had function in their past appearances, it was simple, and they haven't had even five minutes total screen time in all 65 episodes.
The Lois and Artie scene amused me - "You may keep your weapon" - too bad for Artie, he can't use it anymore.
I seem to remember that some people disliked the exposition pages - I, however, felt they were a nice adaptation of Keith David's monologue from season 2 to introduce new readers to what has happened to the Gargs over the past two (or 1002) years (and of course, Goliath is speaking it).
The Bluestone-Chavez scene, with the Captain on crutches, brings a thought to mind - John Canmore, if I remember right, was always a little unsure about the Hunt - I seem to recall at the very least that he was willing to spare Goliath and company, and simply Hunt "the Demon." Yet now, as Castaway, he shows the same recklessness that his older siblings had before (Casualties? Innocent bystanders? Who cares?). He strikes me as being blindly dedicated to the point of obsession, or even insanity, and uncaring of how many people get between him and the eradication of the Gargoyle species.
As for the scene itself: Maria Chavez didn't reach Captain by being stupid - Matt was nervouse when she asked about Xanatos, and I doubt that escaped her notice. She probably guesses that he's hiding something.
Elisa's wakeup - I only have this to say - boxers or panties?
Vinnie's recruitment, Part 2: "I think you'll see the necessity [for the hammers]." - Castaway is so sure of what he's doing, he doesn't see how anyone could disagree with him.
On Elisa's balcony: "No way you're fighting this hard if stone-face weren't the real thing…" Let's skip the poor English and go straight to the fact that the statement is total bull!! If it were just a statue, one like that would have to be worth a fortune! I remember that bugging me even in the TV version.
That's it for Nightwatch.
First Point: I didn't cut them. They're in the issue. Banquo and Fleance are with the Quarrymen now, not Macbeth. Sorry.
As for Castaway, I think he is obsessed, but that doesn't mean he's unintelligent. I hope his portrayal in issues 1-3 indicate that. His statement to Vinnie is successful, so there's no way to know whether he's blind to disagreement or being smart or both.
Why did Banquo and Fleance stop working for Macbeth?
Better offer, perhaps?
Jon Castaway is backed by the Illuminati. Is he a member as well?
Issue #3 should begin to answer these questions.
I read the preview of the new comic series online and I couldn't be more excited. I will be ordering a copy from the local comic shoppe as soon as possible. I obviously would prefer a new television show but as a comic fan I can certainly enjoy this format. I am just glad to have new stories. Watching reruns for the third or fourth time late at night on Toon Disney just isn't cutting it anymore.
My question is how involved are the Quarrymen going to be in the new series? I am sure you had/have a different idea in mind than what was done in the Goliath Chronicles. However, I really can't stand them. They came off like one of the lame single-minded villainous organizations you find in early eighties cartoons.
I shouldn't be worried, I trust you on this. I am sure the comic will be great. The first and second seasons were never anything short of fantastic but the Quarrymen just carry a certain stigma. I mean no disrespect to the people who put together the third season but it just wasn't ... well... it wasn't that good.
I would also like to say thank you for one of the best shows of my childhood. Sorry if I rambled a bit.
The Quarrymen were MY idea, introduced in the only episode I wrote for Goliath Chronicles, i.e. "The Journey", which was adapted into the comic as the two-part story "Nightwatch" and "The Journey". I like to think that the orgainzation showed some potential and interest as I portrayed them, and I further hope that how they were portrayed in the last 12 episodes of Goliath Chronicles will not totally sour fans on the concept. The Quarrymen make small appearances in issues #3-4, and then don't appear in #5-7. So one thing I've got going for me is that they shouldn't overwhelm the series, the way they seemed to on Goliath Chronicles. Also, I'm hoping that our presentation of the Quarrymen in the comics will be more interesting and more complex moving forward. Still I can't exactly GUARANTEE that I'll be able to change your mind. But at least you can rest assured that if the Quarrymen don't do it for you, we'll have plenty of other villains/opponents/characters etc. who might.
Sorry if I rambled a bit. ;)
One thought that I had over the recent questions about the similarity between the Ku Klux Klan and the Quarrymen: while the two groups are certainly thematically similar, I noticed that the Quarrymen's hoods looked different enough from the KKK's as to give them a distinct look. The traditional Ku Klux Klan hood, if I recall correctly, is white and conical, pointing straight up; on the other hand, the Quarryman hoods were blue-colored (I think; it's been a long time since I last saw a "Goliath Chronicles" episode - over six years, to be precise) and shaped (to me, at least) more like executioners' hoods.
The executioner look was intentional. The KKK was a model for the Quarrymen, but I was never trying to xerox them. I would imagine that many of the people who join the Quarrymen, would never consider joining the Klan. So even from Castaway's pov, it wouldn't pay to be too close visually to the KKK.
just wondering... i havent seen all of TGC, so if this comes up in the show & i missed it... well, ops but
1)anyway, after hunters moon, what hapens 2 robyn canmore? does she keep tracking "the Demon" or what.
2) does jon canmore/castaway blame elesa at all for what hapened 2 jason
1. No, she's arrested and forced to join the "Bad Guys".
2. He's not fond of her.
Ok another question to add to my list.
It's known that John Canmore (hunter) has changed his indentity and later became John Castaway leader of The Quarrymen, but why would he have gone to all the trouble to change his eye color, his name, grow 10 years older, and change British (no longer being Scotish ), when the hunter thing was working much better than that metal hammer that goes ZAP!. Did the creators change him and give him a new group just for more stories ? and does His sister who is in jail know what he is up to ?
Thanks for taking the time to answer :)
Gargoyles Forever !
He didn't change his eye-color. He changed his appearance enough, being a wanted fugitive, to maintain his freedom. He changed his accent (as he had when he used the alias Jon Carter), to further his disguise.
He founded the Quarrymen, because he no longer had full access to the resources of the Hunters.
And his sister would likely find out soon what he was up to. His brother too.
1.If Castaway knew his guys resembled the KKK wasn't he afraid of them suing him for trademark infringement?
And why wasn't he worried that the Beatles sue him for calling his guys the Quarryman?
Probably for the same reason he wasn't worried about the Gilligan's Island gang suing him over his new last name.
Was Castaway or the Illuminati worried at all about how the Quarrymen's resemblance to the Ku Klux Clan and its political correctness? Or did he/they design them that way on purpose and if they did, for what reason? Or did they figure that most people wouldn't make the connection because Gargoyles aren't people, and thus can't be persecuted against?
Well, I was making the connection for the audience, but I think that in the world of the Garg universe, the similarities were less intentional than inevitable, given the nature of both organizations.
1a) Did Goliath know Jon Canmore and John Castaway were the same person? b) Did Elisa?
1a. Not at the time of "The Journey".
Regarding John Castaway/Jon Canmore, how exacly did he make contact with the Illuminati?
I'm not revealing the specifics right now, though I will say that the Hunters and Illuminati have been aware of each other for quite some time.
When the Quarrymen started up in "The Journey", it was a mixture of different varieties of people with different reasons for going after the gargoyles. Some, such as Banquo and Fleance, were essentially mercenaries out simply to ruthlessly destroy the gargoyles out of malice, or to receive regular pay checks from Castaway. But the bulk of them, from what we saw in that episode, were more "ordinary folks" such as Vinnie, or Billy and Susan's mother, who joined up because they were afraid of the gargoyles, saw them as a menace to themselves, their families, and their community, and believed that they had to do something.
In your plans, you've mentioned that the Quarrymen would still be around by 2198. Is the "ordinary frightened citizen" element of it (as in, concerned parents who believe that the gargoyles would attack their children) still a significant part of it by then? Or would it by then be composed mainly of the vicious thug-types?
As I've said before, look at the Klan, which still survives today.
There will always be people, unfortunately, who let fear and ignorance and resentment and ridiculous prejudices fuel their hatred. Is Castaway himself that different?
You said in a chat in '97 that, "in my mind, he [Jon Canmore/Castaway] approached the Illuminati, who for their own reasons, funded the Quarrymen."
1a) How and for how long did he know that the Illuminati really existed? b) Do the other Canmores know about the Illuminati (before Robyn joins the Redemption Squad)?
2) How did he know where to find the Illuminati? I found your statement that *he* was the one to approach *them* rather interesting, as I would have assumed that it's usually the Illuminati who establish first contact with someone.
3) Does Castaway become a member of the Illuminati?
1a) I think the Canmore's have known for quite some time. The Hunters and the Illuminati may have been useful to each other from time to time.
b) I would think so. At least to some extent.
2. But this wasn't first contact. All he needs is a contact. The message would work its way up the pyramid, so to speak.
3. I don't know.
Im a big fan of the gargoyles and all and I was wondering if the gargoyles were still on the air would you bring back the Hunter? and few other questions.. how many Hunters were in the gargoyle history? I know they were 1 in the ancient times and 3 in the present and McBeth was kind of one... and the other question if you did brought back the Hunter what kind of look would he have? a High Tech-ish look more beyond what the 3 Hunters had?
I don't know exactly how many hunters there have been. We've shown a sampling, including Gillecomegain, Duncan, Canmore, the Renaissance Hunter, Charles Canmore, Jason Canmore, Robyn Canmore, Jon Canmore. And, as you said, briefly, Macbeth. Fiona Canmore would have appeared in Team Atlantis, had that show gone forward, and Robyn would have continued as the Hunter in Bad Guys (though she'd largely be hunting other bad guys, not gargs) had that show gone forward.
There are more Hunters in the past, including some specific ones that I have in mind. But I won't pretend I've run the entire Canmore line from Canmore to Jon out in my head and listed every single one.
As for moving forward, I see the Hunters waning in favor of the waxing Quarrymen. But I'm not talking in absolutes.
How does the Quarrymen theory about Gargoyles evolved in 2198?
i.e.: Do they still view them as the usual "demons/monsters/super-natural beings" or that view changed to something else, like "rival sentinent being"?
I think they see them as an insidious evil. Beyond that, even the Quarrymen aren't likely to be monolithic in the specifics of their beliefs.
First of all thank you so much for Gargoyles. It's had a wonderful impact on the lives of my sister and myself as well as 8 children I used to take care of. I apologize if any of my questions have been asked and answered in the past. I actually read all the FAQs and the archives to make sure. I didn't see them there, but I could be wrong. (I did read a lot in one day!)
1. I know that you had nothing to do with the Goliath Chronicles with the exception of "The Journey". I find the Quarry Men an interesting organization and a very real threat to not only the Gargoyles but to Elisa Maza as well. I'm curious as what you would have planned for this group in the future. Would they have been a long term force to be reckoned with?
Yep. Centuries long. I hesitate to say this because I don't want to trivialize something as evil and insidious as the KKK, but that organization was my inspiration for the Quarrymen.
1) Do the Canmore siblings (The Hunters) know about Macbeth (What, with his still being alive and all)?
2) Have they ever tried to hunt him?
3) Does Macbeth have any descendants living by 1996?
4) Do the Canmores (at least the ones descended from Jon) still hunt Demona in 2198?
1. Not saying.
2. Not saying.
3. Not saying.
4. There are no more Canmores, at least not of that line. But the Castaways still hunt her. Her and all gargoyles through the Quarrymen.
Hi! It was great seeing you again at this year's Gathering. (Insert tons of compliments, comments and the like, regarding that event).
Anyway, you wrote:
I don't have any more plans for the pie gun.
But I have very specific plans for the guy the pie gun was named after.
And I just, belatedly, realize that Carter is the alias that Jon Canmore uses in Hunter's Moon. If I remember correctly, that in your plans, Castaway was NOT Jon Canmore... is he (Canmore) the one you are referring to?
It always seemed to me that Jon having access to TV, via being a newscaster, had more influence to the public at large than being the head of an obvious Klan rip-off.
So, be oblique and witty about this?
No, in my development Canmore was definitely Castaway.
It's the people who took over from me who didn't seem to want to acknowledge that.
... as for the original to Mr. Carter.... I'm not in the mood to reveal that right now...
But, hey, Mara, where's your Gathering diary, huh?
1a) how many heads do the space spawn have? Does it varry? b) Do the Space spawn's general appearance varry from one another? By alot?
2a) Is New Camelot still around in 2198? b) Are Arther's decendands running it or anything(I'll be really surprised if you answer THAT) c) Is it connected to Master Matrix?
3) Do the Illuminati still fund the Quarry men in 2198?
1b. To them, yes.
2a. Before or after March?
2c. Before or after March?
3. Not saying.
How does Jon Castaway (Canmore) die?
1. In "Journey" you introduced John Castaway. Would he be involved in any way, in any of your spinoffs? The reason I ask is, I know he won't be alive in 2198. (Maybe his great grandson or some relative) But other than 2198 are you planning anything more with him?
2. Since I know you only worked on one episode of TGC, would you personally (should your spinoffs come back to TV) ignore what has taken place in the remaining episodes of the TGC seeing how you were not involved in their creation? Or were some of the TGC episodes ideas yours which you were planning before your contract ran out? I don't think some episodes can be completely ignored. However I hated that in TGC, they killed off the clones. What is your take on this?
3. By the way, since the Gathering 2001 is over, may I ask if there was any petitioning done to jumpstart Gargoyles and make it TV-borne again? If so, how'd it go?
2. I've answered this before too. My current thinking, which is not etched in stone, is to ignore what I don't consider canon. Enough time has passed and any new episodes would need to stand on their own two feet anyway. If anyone's confused about contradictions between TGC and the new stuff, they can check out the internet site that we will have to clarify all this stuff.
3. I didn't see any petitions. Feel like starting one? I'd focus on DVD's for now.
Incidentally, your post here should theoretically have been broken up into three posts, since your questions were on three separate topics. I haven't reminded people of that in a while. I ignored the rule breaking this time, but don't make a habit of it.