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Todd Jensen writes...

My ramble on "Avalon Part Two".

I really liked this episode (and never had any confusion with the time loop, since I've done similar things in my own fiction, conceived years before "Gargoyles" ever came out; indeed, a certain time loop that I've planned in the book that I'm currently writing - although I can't say anything more about it than that - fits beautifully the part where the Archmages say to each other "You're sure you know what to do?" "Of course. I've watched you do it.")

The introduction of Angela and Gabriel's names (alongside the whole "gargoyles being given names" process that you referred to) illustrates nicely just how Princess Katharine and the Magus's attitudes towards gargoyles have changed since "Awakening Part One". Now, they're naming gargoyles after angels rather than villainous giants. (Although, regarding Boudicca's name, as we agreed earlier, they couldn't have been too familiar with the original Boudicca's career when they named the gargoyle beast.)

I picked up easily enough on Angela's parentage (especially because of that article that I mentioned in the "Double Jeopardy" ramble); I never even suspected that Gabriel might be Othello and Desdemona's biological offspring until I discovered Gargoyles fandom on the Internet, though.

I definitely guessed from the start who the Sleeping King was (of course, from the moment that Avalon got into the story, I was hoping that Arthur would show up - and was mentally jumping up and down in excitement when Elisa actually asked about him at the end of Part Two). It's interesting to note that, judging from the Archmage's response, even by the late 10th century in the Gargoyles Universe, Arthur had faded into the mists of legend (of course, the same thing must have been true of him in the real world, judging from what I've read about early mentions of him in medieval writings predating Geoffrey of Monmouth).

About the Weird Sisters: I was more bothered over the Grace vs. Vengeance conflict than the Fate vs. Vengeance one, for my part. I was having a very difficult time reconciling their desire for blood and vengeance with all their talk in "City of Stone" about every life being precious and vengeance being wrong. (It actually made them seem worse than the Archmage, in fact; he, at least, was introduced in the series as a villain from the start, while the Sisters started off appearing to be benevolent. Truth to tell, my response to their behavior in "Avalon" was probably not too different from how Lexington felt in "The Thrill of the Hunt" when he discovered that the Pack weren't quite so heroic as they'd seemed to be).

I agree with you on David Warner's voice; it's great. Definitely justified bringing the Archmage back. (I'm actually reminded of an episode of "Batman Beyond" that I once saw. In it, Bruce Wayne had a reunion with Talia, only to discover that she'd been "taken over" by Reis el-Ghul following his final defeat by Batman (off-stage, some years previous), who'd somehow transferred his consciousness into her body. During the latter part of the episode - after the truth was revealed - Talia spoke in Reis's voice, done by David Warner as per "Batman: TAS". Although I knew that that was scientifically impossible - a mere mind-transplant couldn't have altered her voice - I didn't protest because David Warner did such a great job that he simply had to be in that episode. Leaving him out of the voice actor roster for the story would have been unthinkable.)

And I agree with you that, despite all his power, the Archmage ultimately comes across as not all that bright. (My favorite part is where he has to admit that, although he's spent all that time seeking to unite all three magical objects into one big Triad of Power, he hasn't even decided what he's going to do with it. And he even has to be nudged by his future self into picking the obvious goal for a cliched villain: Taking Over the World.) I LOL when you mentioned that the real reason why the two Archmages can't work together for long was because of their utter arrogance.

The scene where he becomes the "enhanced Archmage", as I call him, was very effective - and the bit where he eats the Grimorum definitely jolted me. It'd been around from the very start of the series, and so it shook me up a bit to see it go. (I know that the book's real end is in Part Three, but for me, the bit where the Archmage eats it is where it exits the series). And I also really liked the "caption countdown". It gave a feel of approaching ominousness and tension.

I'm eagerly awaiting your Part Three ramble now.

Greg responds...

Re: Boudicca. I dunno. A Celtic heroine and martyr? I'd guess they knew that.

Response recorded on March 24, 2004

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Dani writes...

Hello Greg

1) The eye of Odin awake the possessor's hidden personality?

2) Does Goliath when putting on it become an abatar, but that it would pass Lexinton, Broadway, Hudson or Brooklin if they put it to him? Would it pass them the same thing or another thing?
Please give me your opinion Greg.
I hope you understand me because my English is not very perfect because I am Spanish.
Thank you for your attention.

Greg responds...

1. It emphasizes it, brings it to the surface, etc.

2. I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you are trying to ask. Are you asking if the others would manifest the exact same thing as Goliath did? If so, the answer is no. Everyone is unique.

Response recorded on March 24, 2004

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Sam writes...

Dear Greg, In the Hunter`s moon3 when Golith said the hi=unter`s will pay after blowing up the clock tower. The repoter`s had the footage of him saying that ( I think )How ( they even did ) get that footage of him saying that when they where down on the ground and the gargoyles were on the clock tower?

Greg responds...

Well, I haven't watched it in a while, but I'm fairly certain that you are incorrect, or at least confused. The reporter (jon) definitely did NOT have the footage of Goliath speaking. Only footage of the clan flying away from the ruined tower.

Response recorded on March 24, 2004

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DPH writes...

Here's a quote:

Pamber writes...

have jade and turquesa returned to guatemala from avalon yet? did they go on adventures wherever avalon sent them?

Greg responds...

Yes. Yes.

So here's my follow-up questions:

1)when did Jade and Turquesa make it back to Guatamela?

2)how hard was it to get those transplanted plants from Guatamela to grow on Avalon?

Greg responds...

1. Not saying.

2. Not very.

Response recorded on March 23, 2004

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wolfspaw writes...

Hello Greg my name is Pete and I'v been trying to find a site to send some of my fan based art work to. So if you know please tell me. I'd tel you what I'v done but bon't want to masquerd anything I'm not sure if telling you what i'v done but there cool I thing so please let me now where I can put my gargoyles art work thank you for your time.

Greg responds...

I have no idea. Sorry.

Response recorded on March 23, 2004

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Ed writes...

Although I don't really have time to rewatch and ramble to most of the episodes as you do them (at least, not right now), I wanted to respond to one of the questions you posed in your "AVALON PART ONE" ramble.

With regard to denoting 'parts' on continued episodes, I'm massively in favour of it. The conventional wisdom you mention, for me at least, is completely wrong: "part one" tells me that there's something worth watching, or at least more likely to be worth watching, particularly as it's such a rare thing in cartoons, and many television programmes.

Although they were titled separately as I recall, I loved the multi-part stories that Disney did for 'Ducktales' with Gizmoduck and Bubba. I love continuity, and particularly given that the last 'Gargoyles' multi-part outing was 'CITY OF STONE'... well, it was a good move to mark the 'part one' at the beginning.

Greg responds...

Actually, the last one was "Hunter's Moon". But I'm glad you agree with me. I feel, if nothing else, it's more honest. Not sure why that matters to me in this context, as I certainly am not shy about trying to mislead viewers with Red Herrings, etc. within a story, but at least there's no false advertising going on -- on my part anyway.

Response recorded on March 23, 2004

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Steve Nunez writes...

I loved your episode of Video wars for the jem series, I was wondering how you and cary bates came up with the storyline, and why you only seem to have written 1 episode for the show? You and Cary also seem to have done a lot together. Will you two be working on future shows? and personally, I think you both rock! :-) Stnp@yahoo.com

Greg responds...

Thanks. Cary & I were writing partners for years, mostly at DC Comics. Nowadays, we still like working together, so I made him a story editor on Gargoyles. And I've had him write scripts for me on that show, plus Starship Troopers & Max Steel.

Basically, if I ever get another show, we'll wind up working together again, most likely.

I'm glad you liked the Jem episode. We only did one, because we were only offered one. I'd have been happy to do more. I'm not too clear (as it's been over 15 years) how we came up with that particular storyline, but I think it was suggested by the bible. Not the premise per se, but it felt like a natural.

Response recorded on March 23, 2004

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Gesamtschule/Felix writes...

Who is puck? What kind of craeture is he?

Greg responds...

He's a member of the so-called "Third Race" a.k.a. "Oberon's Children" a.k.a. "The Children of Oberon" a.k.a. "The Fair Folk" a.k.a. "Dark Elves", etc.

Response recorded on March 23, 2004

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A recommendation...

FIREFLY THE SERIES ON DVD

I watched it over the last week, and it's so great. Most of you know, I'm a big Joss Whedon fan anyway. But seeing all 15 hours of Firefly in order was just great.

I despair for television when a series like that doesn't find an audience. It's easy to blame Fox for the haphazard way they aired the eps. No surprise, the series is MUCH stronger aired in order. But I watched it when it was on (missing only one episode) and even out of order, the series was so amazingly great.

Where was the audience?

The good news is that Joss is making "Serenity", a movie that picks up 6 months after the last episode of Firefly with all of the original cast.

I don't know how they justify making this movie, if they couldn't justify giving the series a chance, but I'm not complaining.

Still, I wonder: WHERE WAS THE AUDIENCE?


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Ray Kremer writes...

The funny thing about the first time I saw the Avalon trilogy is that I knew next to nothing about Arthurian legend. The name Avalon meant nothing to me and that the "sleeping king" was Arthur came as quite a surprise. And then maybe a month later my high school enlgish class began doing Arthurian legend. When we got to his death a big light went on in my head as everything finally connected. I even asked the teacher if the island of Avalon had any other special significance, half expecting her to say it was the kingdom of Oberon and the fairies.

Heh. That reminds me. Earlier that year we read MacBeth, and since City of Stone had already been on I didn't enjoy the play one bit. Mac as the villian just seemed wrong. Even so, it was the voice of John Rhys-Davies in my head as I read. That classroom had a big poster on one wall displaying the family tree of British royalty through the centuries, and as you might expect I went looking and indeed found MacBeth, Gruoch, Luoch, Gillecomgain, Duncan, and Canmore back in 11th century Scotland.

Greg responds...

That was some of the fun stuff for us too. Weaving all this in. Arthuriana and Shakespeareana are two of my favorite Ana's.

Response recorded on March 22, 2004

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neoblacklady@hotmail.com writes...

Such a vivid imagination you have, question is, ....would you be willing to make comic books forever? ill pay!

Greg responds...

Thanks for the compliment. And... well, Yes. I would be willing.

So... You'll pay me for my time? And you'll pay the artists? And the publication costs for the comic?

Or did you mean that you'd pay a couple bucks to buy the issue?

Response recorded on March 22, 2004

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Sparky Genocide writes...

Have you ever watched the cartoon show "X-Men: Evolution?" If so, did you know that your old pal, Frank Paur, works as a director and story-board artist for the show? Has he ever offered you a job as a writer for the show?

Greg responds...

I've seen one or two eps of X-Men: Evolution. I knew Frank worked on the show, but he's not the story editor and is hardly in a position to offer me writing work.

Response recorded on March 19, 2004

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S. Pendergast writes...

Umm, kinda a dumb question but... I was wondering if there were detailed blueprints or floorplans of Castle Wyvern.. I'm kinda peeked in the interest of making a modle of the castle and I'm really not at all pleased with the results of having to use my eyes and imagination to fill in the blanks of what's not seen on tv.. Is there anything available for Download.. I heard there was something like that around on a site a long time ago, but it appears to be long gone. Thanks

Greg responds...

I don't know of any blueprints available for download. In fact, I don't recall any DETAILED blueprints existing. I have a vague memory of something akin to a general layout of the place, but I haven't seen it in years -- assuming I'm even remembering correctly.

Response recorded on March 19, 2004

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Blondewookiee writes...

Well I don't really have a question my sister MaryMack has been here a couple of times and says that you were making references to how many licks does it takes to get to the center of a tootsieroll pop, well I know. The number is 1478 approx.

Greg responds...

Discovered how exactly?

Response recorded on March 19, 2004

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Star Sighting &tc...

I just saw wecently wed Wesley & Willow walking arm-in-arm down Wittle Santa Monica Blvd. It was pretty cute...

Have I mentioned this before?:

I think one (though certainly not the only) visceral appeals of the E-Street Band is its archetypal relationship to Robin Hood & his Merry Men.

Bruce Springsteen = Robin Hood (complete with a "rob-from-the-rich-and-give-to-the-poor" mentality)
Miami Steve Van Zandt = Will Scarlett
Max Weinberg = Friar Tuck
Patti Scialfa = Maid Marion

and of course

The Big Man, Clarence Clemons = Little John

I'm not sure which of the following is Alan a Dale...

Garry Tallent, Roy Bittan, Danny Federici or Nils Lofgren.

(The truth is Bruce/Robin is his own Alan, I guess.)

When it comes down to it, I don't know the names of enough Merry Men to make every parallel work. But I'm sure you can see the connections.

Discuss.


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Yehat writes...

Hi,

I just looked at some episodes recently and something funny struck me. The Eyrie Building's. Its main gate's castle was wide open even though we were many hundreds of meters.

Do you suppose Xanatos should have closed that gate or did he found a practical use for it?

Greg responds...

I'm not sure I understand your question...

You're saying that up at the top of the Eyrie, Wyvern's gate is open?

I honestly never noticed.

Maybe he was trying to create a welcoming environment.

Response recorded on March 18, 2004

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Starfox writes...

Dear Greg,
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been asked, but if it has, sorry. Before Demona was affected by Puck's spell, she turned to stone during the day - as an immortal, she shouldn't have been able to die except by Macbeth's hands, so 1) Could Demona have died if someone had shattered her stone form during the day?
Thanks

Greg responds...

Sigh... I don't know whether this specific question has been asked before, but a hundred like it have, i.e. "What if something definitive happened to Demona (decapitation is the usual favorite) that normally she couldn't possibly survive?"

The answer is "It hasn't though, has it?" Or some variation of the same.

Response recorded on March 18, 2004

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TaroMisaki writes...

Hi, I know this question was asked in forum but I don't know how long ago so maybe now it is available.

where can I get the soundtrack for Gargoyles?

Greg responds...

Some of the music is available for free at:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/archives/audio/CarlJohnson/

But there's no soundtrack on the market.

Response recorded on March 17, 2004

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Blaise writes...

AVALON PART ONE

I liked having the "Part 1" addendum to the title. It whetted (sp?) my appetite for a longer and more involved story than usual. Plus, the "To be continued" at the end didn't piss me off nearly so much since I knew it was coming and had mentally prepared for it.
There's so much cool stuff in this episode, I hardly know where to begin. Well, I might as well start at the beginning.
The clan goes out on patrol, minus Bronx, as per usual, and Goliath--a bit of a surprise that. But then, the big G does seem like the type to want to finish book when he gets to the good part. I wonder what exactly it was he was reading (and how miffed was he when it turned out it would be months before he could get back to it?).
Bronx's saddness at not going with the others helped to underline this particular instance. You know, I guess it says something that I never realized how often Bronx was left behind. Well, this time pooch is getting exposure.
The Guardian. I knew it had to be Tom for the same reason I knew Brooklyn was going to be Second-in-Command--Disney Adventures (an article this time, as oppossed to a comic). The article also said that the show would feature gargoyles native to other parts of the world, including (fanfare, please) Avalon! So I had some idea of what to expect there as well. But I will say that Tom the Guardian's entrance was quite impressive. I love his armor, and the way he refers to the lead ruffian as "sirrah."
Laws of TV and movies at work: within about two seconds of the breaking of the store window, the police show up. Two patrol cars, and 2-3 cops on foot (including Morgan). Talk about being in the right place at the right time.
Morgan's interaction with the Guardian is great. Tom's initial accusation of them being lawless undercut by Morgan's identifying himself, and Tom's rather knightly way of submitting to the law. A nice dignified bit until Morgan drops the sword.
Morgan talks to Elisa, and I like the way he describes the Guardian as "differnt, good somehow." Morgan definitely has a rather insightful and perceptive quality to him.
I didn't pick up on the meeting by Belvedere castle as a clue of any kind, unfortunately. Nor did I believe that when Tom was referring to the "eggs" he meant it in the literal sense of the term (after all, gargoyle eggs hatch after ten years (this was in the article, too) so they must have grown at least a little bit).
Let me just finish with the article now--the revelation that gargoyles existed in other parts of the world really excited me. Now the characters were no longer "the last of their kind," so this was something of a new approach in a series for me (I hadn't gotten to see that much of the GUMMI BEARS). This turning upside down of what my expectations had been at the beginning of the series was really fun.
Back to the show, the Guardian eventually mentions the Archmage. This was a complete and total surprise to me. He was dead! How could he come back like this? If I hadn't been hooked already (and I was) this would have clinched it.
The flashback starts. It's interesting to contrast Tom's traveling in the back of the cart with the eggs here to Demona's memory of him sitting up front (aah, it's probably just two different animation studios/storyboards, but I like the idea of a POV prism). Tom's solemnity (sp?) about his vow is rather touching in its way.
I liked the little scene with Tom and the Magus pushing the cart through the rain. They were becoming friends as well, it seems.
First impressions at the dinner: The King was a nice enough gentleman (voiced by Morgan Shepard), while Constantine's brief appearance here was not enough for me to form any opinions about him yet. Finella aroused some distrust in me for some reason...maybe her hollowed cheeks (that's how they looked to me), or the hint of insincerity in her voice when she spoke to the king, OR the scowl she gave when Constantine proposed the toast to Katharine. Anyway, next to her there was Maol Chalvim--who definitely looked more than a little sinister to me. This might have something to do with his sour expression, hollowed face, stylized eyebrows and Xanatosian beard. Suffice to say, their turning out to be "good guys" in this episode surprised me a bit (but the knowledge that Maol Chalvim would kill his cousin and take the throne did not surprise me at all).
I liked that people (at least Maol Chalvim) tended to look askance at Katharine's care for the gargoyle eggs. And Maol Chalvim already suspected Constantine's treachery ("they can smell their own" sort of thing I guess). I liked Constantine's scowl after Maol's thinly veiled insult.
Details. You just gotta love details. The Magus is writing in the Grimorum (the story of his cursing the gargoyles, perhaps?) and stops to look up when Constantine enters. Then he remains in the background while the future-usurper talks with Katharine. He senses the same thing Finella does (not that Constantine does much to hide it).
I love how when Finella mentions the King's proposal of marriage to her, Constantine seems somewhat incredulous that she has not accepted. A telling bit of character that.
Then Constantine murders Kenneth (who saw that coming? *countless hands raise into the air*). I liked how Finella turned out to be a more sympathetic figure here, through her devestation at this turn of events. And Tom (details--the tears down his cheeks) sees it all. I know kids had to grow up more quickly then, but MAN! Seeing that has got to affect a kid, no matter what era.
Scenes of the usurpation occur, and of course show what a jerk Constantine is. Maol Chalvim kills a guard (off-screen, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened), and tries to get Katharine to flee. You're right, Greg, he is rather heroic here actually. I didn't see any smile though, after Katharine tells him to go for the last time. His face registers more a shocked expression. It's still an awkward transistion (especially because you only see it for half a second), but better than a smile.
Constantine tries to force Katharine into marriage, and it's only Mary and Tom that keep the Magus from rushing him (details again, yay!) while Finella runs away in, what seemed to me, a rather embarrassed fasion (one wonders if she, *ahem* gave more to Constantine than that one kiss).
About this scene, where Constantine is crowned, I find a contrast between this and Macbeth's back in CITY OF STONE. When Macbeth did it, I really believed that he meant those words. With Constantine, it seemed more of a PR thing. That could be just because we already knew what those characters were like before they took the oath, but I also think that Ian Buchanan just does good voice work here (and throughout the episode).
RE: The amount of broken crockery. Maybe Tom went and broke it for the plan to work. Or, hey, maybe Constantine and his boys are just a rowdy lot who like to break things (now THAT would be ironic). I like how the "magical glow" begins and ends with the eggs and their dopplegangers.
I loved the romantic moment between the Magus and Katharine in the next scene where he promises to take her beyond the ends of the earth. I did expect them to wind up together. Actually, I kind of expected it from AWAKENING PART 5--his anger there seemed very much like that of a man who lost his love.
Finella shows up and offers her help in the matter. I like her admission that she does it "more to hurt Constantine." True to the character, and a nice moment in an animated series.
Then the Magus tells us the "spiked-cider" plan. Actually, the Magus really gets to shine as a hero in this episode. He comes up with the plan to get the eggs to safety, and then, once Finella is brought in, comes up with the method to get Katharine out of the castle. Throughout all this, he has planned to take them all to Avalon, and when the Weird Sisters block their path, he is able to defeat them, not just with magic, but by skillfully weilding the steering pole as well. And then, for love, he gives up his magic book. It really isn't surprising that a fair number of fans really like this guy. Once he got past that "bigot" problem, he could be quite dashing and romantic (then again, since some folks take the same view of Brooklyn, maybe it's got something to do with Jeff Bennett).
I liked how Finella offered to take the book. This was a surprisingly noble gesture on her part. And not one that I expected. And then Mary offers to stay with her. I love her line, "One woman alone could get into trouble. TWO women can cause plenty of it." Mary is an interesting character. Like Katharine, once she got past the "bigot" problem she was quite a good judge of character. Also quite daring in her own right. I hadn't even noticed Kath Soucie voiced Mary until...I want to say the credits, but when Mary said "I'll stay with Finella" I half-thought that came from Katharine (leaving me very confused), until Mary's image popped up on the screen again. So that was how I figured they were both voiced by the same woman. Still, excellent work otherwise. Kind of sad that Mary and Tom had to separate, but then too, boys tended to become men much earlier in those days.
Back in the present, the Guardian spells out the time difference (fair enough) and Goliath asks about the Archmage, mentioning how that cad died before Tom was even born (a nod to continuity I was grateful for). Then we get to Avalon, and get our first glimpse of the new clan. I think I only recognized that we had a female, a male, and a beast, before Goliath's surprised face filled the screen. And excellent little cliffhanger that left me eager for the next episode as well.

Greg responds...

Glad you liked it. I wonder if that Disney Adventures article enhanced or detracted from your appreciation of the actual episode.

It of course goes without saying that Jeff Bennett and Kath Soucie were invaluable to us. Jeff is so charismatic, no matter who he's playing. And so versatile. In that episode alone, he's Brooklyn, the Magus & Maol Chalvim. Kath is Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters. (She got paid twice, in case anyone's wondering.) We were blessed with a stunning cast in general, but Jeff & Kath were two of our absolute rocks.

Response recorded on March 17, 2004

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Fan o' Gargoyles writes...

Hey again Greg, I was just watching the ep. Sentinel and I was just wondering if the sentinel (whatever his name is) will or would be included in Gargoyles 2098 if they ever came out with the series?

Greg responds...

Nokkar. And yes.

Response recorded on March 16, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Who exactly were the uber-villains going to be for Roswell Conspiracies?
Do the Greys actually exist?
What does Trish Ainsely know that the rest don't?

Greg responds...

I just don't have these answers fresh in my mind. Sorry.

Response recorded on March 16, 2004

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Fan o' Gargoyles writes...

Hey Greg, its me again, I got a question for you I keep forgeting to ask. (Hope you can answer it)

the Gargoyles were completly devistaded by the loss of there clan in 994, so why didnt they try to go back in time and try to erase that event once they obtained the phenox gate?

I know the past is hard to change but it is possible (they did it with Griff)

Well, i was just courious thanx for trying to answer

Greg responds...

They didn't change the past with Griff, they played into it. Griff didn't die in WWII, he disappeared. So Goliath disappeared him to the present.

The gargs in 994 were massacred. Goliath learned he could NOT change the past.

Response recorded on March 16, 2004

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kate oxford writes...

I was wondering does Golith have a grandson ? Did I hear right or am I just making it up?

Greg responds...

He will someday.

Response recorded on March 16, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Concerning the VAMPYRU why aren't they afraid of sunlight like traditional vampires?

Greg responds...

I don't remember, off the top of my head, either...
a) whether what you've stated is true or
b) if it is true, why.

Fact is, it's been a long time on a show I did NOT end up doing.

Sorry.

Response recorded on March 15, 2004

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Entity writes...

AVALON, PART ONE

I agree with Todd that, in principle, I like that you identified the multi-parters as such. Looking back, it feels more honest and manageable that way. But I gotta admit, upon the FIRST viewing, the labeling always made "Part One" stick out. Once you knew it was a multi-parter, you set yourself up for something big, so it was less fluid. For instance, in "Avolon, Part One," I knew it was a multi-parter, so when they arrive at the shore of Avalon and glimpse the "eggs" I don't blow soda out of my nose, but rather say, "Oh, so they're finally getting around to tieing up that loose-end about the Wyvern eggs. Cool." For me, at least, the honesty of telling the viewer ahead of time that it is going to be a multi-parter "spoiled" me, so that I expected something big, rather than getting it rewarded to me.

Greg responds...

So, basically, you're saying 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other?

Response recorded on March 15, 2004


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