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REJOINDERS 2005-03 (Mar)

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Punchinello writes...

Hello Mr. Weisman.

<<So sometimes, it does get annoying. But mostly I enjoy doing this. (I do think that doing a little a day has been a much better system than trying to do big batches of questions all at once. I get less annoyed when not burdened with the cumulative effects of annoyance.) Do I wish this could be more of a forum for ideas and discussion? Well, yeah, duh. I've invited that in the past, and, P., I always enjoy reading and responding to your posts.>>
<<I hope that 18 months later you're still checking ASK GREG and reading this. I hope that you'll compose your response and hold on to it, submitting it when we finally get things back up and running. But even if you're not, even if you're long gone, thanks for raising some interesting issues.>>

All this sort of diminishes some of my apprehensions about submitting things to this forum. Most of the time I have assumed it's a huge hassle for you.

<<(Although what you quoted at the head of your post:
<<You idiot! Did you not read the no ideas clause on the main askgreg page or are you just pretending to be stupid!>>
is a bit lost on me out of context. I can't believe I wrote the first quote.) >>

You didn't write it. I'm sorry. That must have seemed strange to you. When I submitted this post (all those many years ago) there were two posts in the list directly before mine. The first was from someone who I don't think had ever posted a message here before. I don't remember his name or what he wrote, but I do remember that he was speculating about something you did in the show. His post seemed pretty benign to me. He was just curious about something.

The second post was from...some anonymous idiot. He was the one asking the curious guy if he was "pretending to be stupid." I got the impression he was trying to demonstrate his superior knowledge of "gargoyles forum culture." I found his invective incredibly offensive. Apparently so did your mr. Gorebash, because he deleted his post after I responded. That's why you didn't see it.

I think the guy rematerialized shortly afterwards, as Master Debator, who had never posted before and most likely never will again. I almost regret you decided not to dignify his contest for "king of the garg fans" with a reaction, as I'm sure your reaction could have been very amusing.

<<So a lot comes down to the intent of the questioner, and you can usually tell, if not in a single post then in the range of posts that that person submits. If I get 16 posts in a row asking something like, "Who is Maggie's father?" followed by "Who is Claw's father?" followed by "Who is Fang's father?" or if I get requests for laundry lists of things, "Name all the ancient heroes who have encountered Oberon," then you can bet that the questioner was looking for a question to ask, as opposed to trying to deepen his or her understanding of the show or character.>>
<<And again, I think you can often (though not always) tell by the question itself if that's what the questioner is seeking. A deeper understanding about some aspect of the show.>>

I understand. I think part of the reason that I responded to the anonymous character in the way I did was because I had gotten the idea in my head that it was the same anonymous character that is persistently demanding that you elaborate on the most trivial minutia. From my perspective, it seemed like someone had just asked where fox got her tattoo six times in a row, then had the unmitigated gaul to call someone else an idiot for asking an innocent question.

Greg responds...

I so wish I could just catch up. It's so hard to raise this forum up to its potential when I'm two years behind responding to a post that's responding to a post that's two years even further back.

Hopefully, we'll have the opportunity to repair the system sometime soon. But in the meantime, I just keep plugging away. And I hope you (all of you) stick around too.

Response recorded on March 31, 2005

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Arwen writes...

just wondering... i havent seen all of TGC, so if this comes up in the show & i missed it... well, ops but

1)anyway, after hunters moon, what hapens 2 robyn canmore? does she keep tracking "the Demon" or what.

2) does jon canmore/castaway blame elesa at all for what hapened 2 jason

Greg responds...

1. No, she's arrested and forced to join the "Bad Guys".

2. He's not fond of her.

Response recorded on March 31, 2005

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jillvevea@hotmail.com writes...

-Greg
Why did they end gargoyles? I mean, in the late show,after they save the train and everone see their point of of view and then LOVE them. But why did they conution on from their?

Please e-mail the anwer's...I don't know how or when to get back here to see my anwer.

Greg responds...

I'm just going to refer you to the archives. I'm not going to e-mail you. That's not what this forum is for. And I'm not going to answer a question that I've answered over and over again, particularly for someone who basically had no intention of checking back even assuming she would still check back two years later.

Response recorded on March 31, 2005

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Question writes...

What does the moon look like when it is viewed on Avalon? By that I mean does it wax and wane more often when viewed from Avalon because of the 1 hour for 1 day rule? Can you see the waxing and waning of the moon on Avalon in one night because of the time acceleration outside Avalon?

Greg responds...

That's a real good question... one that I haven't given a lick of thought too. (See, I'm happy to admit it when I don't know something.)

What do all of you think?

Response recorded on March 30, 2005

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Stanley writes...

Greg responds...

So, if I'm getting you right the Hunter's Moon (a.k.a. the Blood Moon) is the first full moon of October. (Or the only full moon of October, most years.) Right?

Thanks. That's very helpful and useful. I'm writing this down.

So a couple more questions...

Do you know the origin(s) behind these names? And if so, what are they?

And what is a Wyrt?

recorded on 08-01-03

The lore of the names of the moon are posted at various sites around the net. Here's a few:

http://www.waningmoon.com/guide/moons.shtml
http://www.fariesmedow.org/13moons.htm

Not sure about the origins though. And "wyrt" is an Old English term for "wort", a generic word for "a plant" I believe.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wort

Greg responds...

Thanks...

Response recorded on March 30, 2005

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Annie Onimous writes...

Was up!
At the end of the episode "the mirror", before Puck got all ticked and did the whole human by day thing, did he seem to sort of loosen up to Demona a bit to you? I thought he started to kinda like her near the end. What do you think greg?

Greg responds...

I think that he had had a good time, and so was genuinely feeling a bit more charitable toward her. And one might argue that his "gift" -- as much as she initially was horrified by it -- was still helpful.

Response recorded on March 29, 2005

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Todd Jensen writes...

I was just looking through the archives again, and noticed a question about what Goliath's favorite books were. You mentioned that "Great Expectations" was one that came to mind.

This actually amused me a little, for there was one aspect of the book that reminded me a lot of "Gargoyles", in the way that Dickens connected the two convicts whom Pip has to help hide at the beginning of the book with the Miss Havisham and Estella part of the story (warning to those who haven't read the book: spoilers follow): it later on turns out that Magwitch (one of those two convicts) was Estella's father and that the other convict (whose name I forget) was the man who left her standing at the altar. That element of interconnectedness definitely struck me as something straight out of "Gargoyles" in terms of the way that everything turned out to be linked to everything else eventually.

I don't know if you had that in mind when you mentioned the book in your answer, but it did make me see its inclusion as appropriate.

Greg responds...

I think of the Gargoyles Universe (and genre fiction in general) as being very Dickensian. Certainly nothing is more Dickensian than Darth Vader being Luke's father, and Leia being Luke's sister (a revelation that still disappoints me).

That connectivity that you mention is a cornerstone of most cohesive Universes. And the Gargoyles Universe in particular.

Another influential book along those lines, is HOWARD'S END by E.M. Forster.

"Only connect.."

Response recorded on March 29, 2005

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bassiste bourre writes...

where i can find gargoles picture? (i'm french sorry for my english) :-)

Greg responds...

Your English seems fine, but I don't have any pictures for you. Check in the comment room.

Response recorded on March 28, 2005

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Lawrence Matheson writes...

Hi I was wondering even though you don't read fan fic what your opinion on the idea is?

Greg responds...

You mean the general idea of people writing fanfic?

As I've said MANY times before, I have mixed feelings. It's very gratifying that people are that into the characters and series to want to create their own. But I'm also a bit territorial, so I also find it disconcerting.

It works out well, then, I think, that I don't read the stuff. But keep up the good work!

Response recorded on March 28, 2005

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Correction...

I just received this very helpful missive from Greg Bishansky:

Hey Greg,

I just saw the latest question in Ask Greg about the stone Xanatos model
sheet, sounds to me like she may have been refering to the stone model of
Xanatos that Puck creates in "The Gathering Part Two" when we finally learn
his backstory.

Greg

MYSTERY SOLVED! Thanks, Greg!!


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Andrea writes...

In the art room at the Gathering, While looking at the some od the photos Disney most graciously lent us, I found myself discussing one of the photos to two other people (I have no idea who..). You see, among the character prototypes (or whatever the heck you call 'em, thats the word that comes to mind right now) there was one of a stone Xanatos. This was od some surprize and confustion. Why? Because Xanatos never turned to stone! Practically everyone else did in City of Stone, but he didn't (and I don't reacall any other epsiode where a non-gargoyle was turned to stone). What gives? Did he turn to stone in the original plannings for that episode or something?

Greg responds...

I'm afraid I don't recall what you're referring to. And I don't recall ever having a plan to turn Xanatos to stone -- either in City of Stone or in any other episode.

Response recorded on March 25, 2005

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Macbeth writes...

Dear Greg , I have a few questions I was wondering about 1 . What Happened to Coyote 1.0's coyote head and body ?
2. Had Xanatos had Coyote armor that he wore ?
3. How come Coyote's head mcame back in Greif . Goliath destroyed Coyote's head to pieces in Upgrade ?
.P.S. - I will be really sad if you don't answer my questions right away .

Greg responds...

1. The body was basically destroyed and went down with the ship. The head was incorporated into Coyote 2.0 and was eventually smashed by Goliath, as I recall.

2. I don't think so.

3. It wasn't the actual head it was a vid-image of the head.

P.S. Sorry, I made you sad, but you must have seen the queue. I didn't even see your question until today.

Response recorded on March 25, 2005

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Lawrence Matheson writes...

Who was Hudson's Mate?

Greg responds...

I'm not going into details about her at this time.

Response recorded on March 24, 2005

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Ewan writes...

dO WE EVER SEE ANY OF THE lOCH nESS cLAN?

Greg responds...

Do we or will we?

Response recorded on March 24, 2005

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Lawrence Matheson writes...

Hi would you mind e-mailing answers to my questions to opinionsrgood@hotmail.com

Greg responds...

Yes. Thanks for asking. (But I am curious... what questions?)

Response recorded on March 23, 2005

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Srg1 writes...

Hello, Gargoyles is one of my favorite shows and Deliaih is
one of my favorite characters. I was wondering why in "The Reckoning" Thailog named Elisa's and Demona's clone to be named Deliaih? Does the name have a special meaning? I also
hope that someday you will also mention more about the Thailog/Deliaih reunion.

Greg responds...

Well, aside from the obvious biblical reference to a dangerous femme fatale, the name just SOUNDS to me like a combo of Demona and Elisa...

DEMONA
DEMONAL
DEMONLA
DEMOLNA
DEMLONA
DELMONA
DELMONAI
DELMONIA
DELMOINA
DELMIONA
DELIMONA
DELIMONAL
DELIMONLA
DELIMOLNA
DELIMLONA
DELILMONA
DELILMOAN
DELILMAON
DELILAMON
DELILAMONH
DELILAMOHN
DELILAMHON
DELILAHMON
DELILAHMO
DELILAHM
DELILAH
EDLILAH
ELDILAH
ELIDLAH
ELIDLAHS
ELIDLASH
ELIDLSAH
ELIDSLAH
ELISDLAH
ELISDALH
ELISADLH
ELISADL
ELISAD
ELISA

See. I don't know how you missed it. ;)

As to the planned Thailog/Delilah "reunion" I'll just say that I have one planned. That's all I feel like revealing at this time.

Response recorded on March 23, 2005

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Lawrence Matheson writes...

I noticed In the mirror that when Elisa turned away from the mirror her image stayed still was this part of the mirrors magic or just an animation mix up?

Greg responds...

The former.

Response recorded on March 22, 2005

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Rob writes...

1) Your rendering of the Illuminati society has grounds in fiction... from where did you take your ideas about the society?
2) and isnt it a little weird that many stories in fiction include an "all-knowing" group that controls the worls from behind the scenes (for example Tomb Raider and Honey I shrunk the Kid's The TV show, starring Peter Scolari).. DO you think there's some sort of real world society similar to the Illuminati, kinda like in the Simpson's Stonecutter's Episode?? cause i think the society does exist..

Greg responds...

1. We had numerous sources, and we made a lot up.

2. If there is one Society running the world, they're doing a very poor job. I mean what would be there ultimate goal that one could interpolate from the current condition of the planet?

Response recorded on March 22, 2005

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Dana writes...

Hey I'm a big fan of the show, it's been so long since the last time I saw it. I would really like to know if there is anyway I can get my hands on all the 78 shows of VHS. I tried looking on ebay but most are just recorded copies and poor quality. I really want to get the whole series though. If you can get back to me email me at dplatt31@hotmail.com

Greg responds...

I'm sorry, but if I e-mailed one person, I'd have to e-mail everyone and that wouldn't do much for this forum. In addition, I have no way of getting you the eps on VHS. So I wouldn't have been of any help there.

But you can get the first season on DVD.

Response recorded on March 22, 2005

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Ancient Kaa The Soulless writes...

Just a question regarding Mace Malone's dental plan.

Are the dentists/orthodentists members of the Illuminati?

Greg responds...

Don't know. But it doesn't seem necessary.

Response recorded on March 21, 2005

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John writes...

Hi, I wanted to ask a couple of questions related to Scottish royal genealogy and Gargoyles.

First, I was wondering about the identity of Prince Malcolm. Having read "Once upon a time, there were three brothers," I see that you make him the youngest son of King Malcolm I. But the sources I have note only two sons - Duff and Kenneth II. Is Prince Malcolm, then, made up? (Duff, I'd note, had a younger son Malcolm who died in 990...)

Second, in "City of Stone", Lulach/Luach is depicted as Macbeth's son, but in actual history, he was Gruoch's son by Gillecomgain (who is the first Hunter, in Gargoyles). Was this change made on purpose, to simplify things, or was it a mistake?

Thanks. (And just wanted to say that these aren't criticisms. I remember when I first watched Gargoyles how impressed I was by the effort that was made to actually depict a recognizable version of Scottish early Medieval history - "City of Stone" was what really drew me in to the show in the first place. I'd seen it a few times before that, and then I remember coming home from school and saying "a cartoon show with a revisionist version of the story of Macbeth? What's going on?" And after that I was hooked.)

Greg responds...

1. Yes, Malcolm and his daughter Katharine are fictional characters that we added to the Gargoyles' Universe.

2. It wasn't a mistake. Our research indicated that Macbeth adopted Lulach/Luach. I have posited that perhaps the reason he did that was because he was in fact the boy's father... conceived before Macbeth & Gruoch were actually married.

Glad you liked it.

Response recorded on March 21, 2005

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fba827 writes...

*No question, just answering Greg's August 2003 question*

Creamy writes...
1. Is Hunter's Moon a specific day or week of the year?
2. If so could you give us the date(s)?

Greg responds...
In 1996, Hunter's Moon was on Saturday, October 26th. I doubt it's on the same night every year, since we operate on a solar, rather than a lunar calender. Anyone else know how this works?
recorded on 01-15-02

F7 Addict writes...
The Name of the moons are based on 12 lunar cycles per year, first is Jan or Wolf; 2 Feb or Storm; 3 Chaste; 4 Seed; 5 Hare; 6 Lover's; 7 Mead; 8 Wyrt; 9 Harvest; 10 Oct Blood or Hunter's moon; 11 Snow; 12 Oak. And on the odd chance of two full moons in a month, the second is called the blue moon.

Greg responds...
So, if I'm getting you right the Hunter's Moon (a.k.a. the Blood Moon) is the first full moon of October. (Or the only full moon of October, most years.) Right?
Thanks. That's very helpful and useful. I'm writing this down.
So a couple more questions...
Do you know the origin(s) behind these names? And if so, what are they?
And what is a Wyrt?
recorded on 08-01-03

(Sorry for the large amount of text from previous posts and large amount of text to follow - just wanted to keep this in context for when you got a chance to see this whenever :) )

I did not bother looking up this information until you asked. Quite interesting really :)

-- You can read this information in a nicer format by following the "Source" links at the bottom of this post. I am merely copying sections in case those websites are unavailable at the time you have the opportunity to refer to this post --

Background:
"Full Moon names date back to Native Americans, of what is now the northern and eastern United States. The tribes kept track of the seasons by giving distinctive names to each recurring full Moon. Their names were applied to the entire month in which each occurred. There was some variation in the Moon names, but in general the same ones were current throughout the Algonquin tribes from New England to Lake Superior. European settlers followed that custom and created some of their own names. Since the lunar month is only 29 days long on the average, the full Moon dates shift from year to year."

Note the sentence that states there has been some variation in the moon names with different tribes, etc. That would explain why the list I am about to post is different in one or two months than the list previously given.

January Wolf Moon (aka Old Moon) "Amid the cold and deep snows of midwinter, the wolf packs howled hungrily outside Indian villages. Thus, the name for January's full Moon. Sometimes it was also referred to as the Old Moon, or the Moon After Yule. Some called it the Full Snow Moon, but most tribes applied that name to the next Moon."

February Snow Moon (aka Hunger Moon) "Since the heaviest snow usually falls during this month, native tribes of the north and east most often called February's full Moon the Full Snow Moon. Some tribes also referred to this Moon as the Full Hunger Moon, since harsh weather conditions in their areas made hunting very difficult."

March Worm Moon (aka Crow Moon, Crust Moon, Sugar Moon, Sap Moon) "Moon As the temperature begins to warm and the ground begins to thaw, earthworm casts appear, heralding the return of the robins. The more northern tribes knew this Moon as the Full Crow Moon, when the cawing of crows signaled the end of winter; or the Full Crust Moon, because the snow cover becomes crusted from thawing by day and freezing at night. The Full Sap Moon, marking the time of tapping maple trees, is another variation. To the settlers, it was also known as the Lenten Moon, and was considered to be the last full Moon of winter."

April Pink Moon (aka Sprouting Grass Moon, Full Egg Moon, Full Fish Moon)"This name came from the herb moss pink, or wild ground phlox, which is one of the earliest widespread flowers of the spring. Other names for this month's celestial body include the Full Sprouting Grass Moon, the Egg Moon, and among coastal tribes the Full Fish Moon, because this was the time that the shad swam upstream to spawn."

May Flower Moon (aka Corn Planting Moon, Milk Moon) "In most areas, flowers are abundant everywhere during this time. Thus, the name of this Moon. Other names include the Full Corn Planting Moon, or the Milk Moon."

June Strawberry Moon (aka Rose Moon, Hot Moon) "This name was universal to every Algonquin tribe. However, in Europe they called it the Rose Moon. Also because the relatively short season for harvesting strawberries comes each year during the month of June . . . so the full Moon that occurs during that month was christened for the strawberry!"

July Buck Moon (aka Thunder Moon, Hay Moon) "July is normally the month when the new antlers of buck deer push out of their foreheads in coatings of velvety fur. It was also often called the Full Thunder Moon, for the reason that thunderstorms are most frequent during this time. Another name for this month's Moon was the Full Hay Moon."

August Sturgeon Moon (aka Red Moon, Green Corn Moon) "The fishing tribes are given credit for the naming of this Moon, since sturgeon, a large fish of the Great Lakes and other major bodies of water, were most readily caught during this month. A few tribes knew it as the Full Red Moon because, as the Moon rises, it appears reddish through any sultry haze. It was also called the Green Corn Moon or Grain Moon."

September Harvest Moon* (aka Corn Moon, Barley Moon) "This is the full Moon that occurs closest to the autumn equinox. In two years out of three, the Harvest Moon comes in September, but in some years it occurs in October. At the peak of harvest, farmers can work late into the night by the light of this Moon. Usually the full Moon rises an average of 50 minutes later each night, but for the few nights around the Harvest Moon, the Moon seems to rise at nearly the same time each night: just 25 to 30 minutes later across the U.S., and only 10 to 20 minutes later for much of Canada and Europe. Corn, pumpkins, squash, beans, and wild rice the chief Indian staples are now ready for gathering."
*Note: The Harvest Moon is always the full Moon closest to the autumnal equinox. If the Harvest Moon occurs in October, the Sept full Moon is usually called the Corn Moon

October Hunter's Moon (aka Travel Moon, Dying Grass Moon) "With the leaves falling and the deer fattened, it is time to hunt. Since the fields have been reaped, hunters can easily see fox and the animals which have come out to glean."

November Beaver Moon (aka Frost Moon) "This was the time to set beaver traps before the swamps froze, to ensure a supply of warm winter furs. Another interpretation suggests that the name Full Beaver Moon comes from the fact that the beavers are now actively preparing for winter. It is sometimes also referred to as the Frosty Moon."

December Cold Moon (aka Long Nights Moon) "During this month the winter cold fastens its grip, and nights are at their longest and darkest. It is also sometimes called the Moon before Yule. The term Long Night Moon is a doubly appropriate name because the midwinter night is indeed long, and because the Moon is above the horizon for a long time. The midwinter full Moon has a high trajectory across the sky because it is opposite a low Sun."

Sources:
http://www.farmersalmanac.com/astronomy/moonnames.html
http://www.almanac.com/details/moondays.html

In other news.... I can not begin to express how much I enjoy Gargoyles. Since becoming aware of your name, I have also seen your name attached to other series that I enjoy. Thank you for the entertainment and enjoyment you have brought to me. My long winded post to answer your question can not compare to how much I have appreciated your work. In short, thank you.

Greg responds...

First off, thank you for the context. It is VERY helpful. And thank you for the kind words too.

And thank you for all the very interesting information....

But it does beg a question. You said a few of the names you listed would be different... but let's face it, except for Harvest & Hunter's, ALL the names were different. Some might come across as variants, but most don't.

So I'm still curious about the original names that were posted...

Response recorded on March 15, 2005

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Mandy writes...

Are the Timedancer, Dark Ages, and other such stories from another site, have anything to do with the orignial show?

Second, I have read several questions that mention future tense stories, are they on TV or where?

Thank you for your time and consideration with putting up with our questions. It is appreciated.

Greg responds...

There may be fanfiction sites that have used the tidbits I've revealed, including plans for "TimeDancer", "Gargoyles: The Dark Ages", and "Gargoyles: 2198" (formerly known as "Future Tense"), among other spin-offs. But I've never read any of them.

None of this stuff has appeared on television.

Response recorded on March 15, 2005

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Todd Jensen writes...

In "City of Stone Part Three", Owen suggests to Xanatos that they look through the Grimorum Arcanorum for a way of reversing Demona's spell upon the city. This didn't seem too odd to me at the time, but after I found out that Owen was really Puck in "The Gathering", I started puzzling over it a little. After all, it seems more than likely that Puck, an inherently magical being, would already be aware of the fact that the spells in the Grimorum could only be used by experienced sorcerers, which Xanatos didn't have on hand, without Xanatos needing to tell him that. So I find that a bit puzzling - unless Puck didn't know as much about the "rules" governing human magic as he did about Oberati magic.

Greg responds...

That's all possible. But the situation also clearly called for desperate measures. If there was a solution in the Grimorum, is it really beyond Xanatos' ability to find someone who could put that solution into practice? Well, clearly Xanatos thought there was a better way, so Owen dropped it. But Puck, in his role as Owen, would have been remiss if he hadn't at least listed X's options.

Response recorded on March 14, 2005

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Jessica writes...

Hello Greg!
First of all, I want to thank you for a show that had me hooked from the very first preview. I loved it when it first aired in the mid-nineties, and I think I appreciate it even more now. So....thank you!
I was wondering when you think the guys came to think of Elisa as a part of their clan. I know that it was at least by the time of "The Cage". I realize that that their trust and affection grew along and along, so it probably wasn't, say, the "seventh" time they saved each other's necks that it was official, but do you think that it was something that had to be discussed? Was there an announcment or did it even need to be said?

Greg responds...

I think that by "Her Brother's Keeper" Goliath was already viewing Elisa as part of the clan. Ironically, her role in moving them to the clock tower, a move he strenuously objected to, helped cement her position. His willingness to have Elisa reveal the truth about them to her brother demonstrates that he viewed her -- and thus by extension Derek -- as family.

But I think the final turning point was "The Mirror" and seeing her as a Gargoyle.

But as you noted, the whole thing was a progression. So I'd be open to other interpretations. It's a very good question and I'd be interested in hearing other points of view on the subject.

Response recorded on March 14, 2005


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