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Why did Macbeth have Banquo and Fleance as best man and maid of honor at his wedding? He doesn't seem to like them, and the feeling seems to be mutual. So why did he bring them all the way to Paris for his wedding?
They were his employees. They didn't come for the wedding. They came to serve his needs, whatever his needs might be.
Why did Macbeth want the Scrolls of Merlin? That was never answered in the episode Lighthouse in a Sea of Time.
Yes, it was, actually. He thought they'd contain powerful magical spells... useful (potentially) in his conflict with/hunt for Demona.
What happened to Duncan's wife? Was she alive when Duncan was killed?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
What was the relationship between Macbeth and Duncan like during the eight years that Duncan was king? By 1040, he seemed to trust Macbeth enough to go walking with him and his son.
Macbeth tried to demonstrate his loyalty. Duncan always regarded these attempts with suspicion.
What did Gillecomgain think of being betrothed to marry Gruoch? Did he choose her, or was the arrangement purely on Duncan's orders?
I think he saw the value of the alliance politically and economically.
You answered, when asked if Macbeth and Demona share emotional pain, "Metaphorically." I didn't quite understand that. Could you explain in greater detail?
Where did Macbeth go when he fled Scotland in 1057? Did he ever return?
I'm not answering the former at this time. But, yes, he has been back to Scotland since 1057.
Did Macbeth really die when Canmore stabbed him? The Weird Sisters said to Demona that "though the pain is great, child, you are unharmed." Were she and Macbeth alive, but in pain, when Canmore declared himself victorious?
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Can Demona or Macbeth sustain permanent damage? Like scars, lost limbs, etc... They're in impeccable shape for people who've been, as you said in one answer, "stabbed, shot, etc."
The question isn't can they, but HAVE they.
Did Luach have any children in the Gargoyles universe? Historically, he did. And his descendants tried to seize the throne in the 1100s.
He did, yes.
I'll be appearing at Wonder-Con this coming weekend, March 2-4, 2006 in San Francisco.
I've got a couple panels on Saturday the 3rd at 3 and 4pm. One's an animation panel moderated by Shan Muir and featuring many animation pros, and the other is a spotlight panel moderated by Dan Vado of SLG.
For more info, check out: http://www.comic-con.org/
If you're in the neighborhood stop by, say hello, introduce yourself, get something signed or whatever!!
Does Demona still think that Macbeth was planning to betray her in 1057?
What was Macbeth and Demona's relationship like when he was king? How well did they get along?
What do Macbeth and Demona think of that golden age during his reign as king?
Macbeth probably sees it as a glorious time, capped by betrayal.
Demona probably sees it as part of an elaborate scheme to lull her into a false sense of security.
Does Demona know that Macbeth is no longer actively hunting her?
Are you so sure he's not?
How did Canmore find out about Macbeth and Demona's link? How did those rumors get started?
Think about it. Macbeth ages nearly twenty years in one night and suddenly has a gargoyle ally... Plus a few people knew about the "bargain" including Bodhe. Word was bound to get around. Not necessarily accurate word. But word.
Did Demona's low opinion of humans change at all during Macbeth's golden age of rule? She and her clan's treatment was very different from what it had been before, and his reign is the only time we ever see Demona truly happy and content.
I think it did -- at least briefly but certainly superficially.
Have you changed any of your original plans for future plots recently? Are there any answers you've given on Ask Greg that are no longer correct?
I'm sure there are a ton of answers that are no longer correct. Heck, I'm sure that there were a few answers that were incorrect back when I first typed them.
I have made a conscious decision not to change anything "revealed" at ASK GREG, simply because I've revealed it already. If I still like the idea and it still feels right and makes sense for the characters and I haven't thought of a better notion then I'll just use what I have and live with the fact that the fans won't be surprised by anything (except perhaps how the idea is executed).
But having said that, I have always maintained that nothing is truly canon unless it appears in an official "episode" which at this point for me includes the 65 tv eps of the first two seasons of the show and the two issues of the SLG published comic. (Soon to be first three issues.) I also feel pretty secure about events in issues 4-7, which are all fully scripted. I don't anticipate anything changing them, but until they hit the stands, they are NOT canon. Call them canon-waiting-in-the wings. Whereas ASK GREG material is canon-in-training at best.
What did Macbeth's subjects think of him aging suddenly from 35 to 52 overnight? Did he ever give an explanation for the change?
I'm sure he made a point NOT to give an explanation, and I'm sure everyone assumed the truth, i.e. sorcery.
Did Macbeth have any advisors other than Demona? If so, how well did they get along with Demona?
Clearly, he had Bodhe, who was probably afraid of Demona. But I'm sure he had others, and some would have gotten along with her better than others did. But I tend to think that Demona reported directly (and to some extent privately) with Macbeth, limiting her "camaradery" with the rest of his "staff".
What's Macbeth opinion about Gargoyles as a species?
See issue #2 of the comic for a fairly good idea.
The Scottish people seemed pretty hateful/fearful towards gargoyles before Macbeth's reign. How was he able to change opinions and get people to accept Demona and her clan?
Winners tend to get to make the rules. And the gargoyles helped the winning side win. So that went a LONG way toward reducing more OVERT prejudice.
Did the English really care about exterminating Demona and her clan like Bodhe thought?
It was only an excuse. They had larger political, religious and territorial concerns. (Not that they LIKED gargoyles.)
Does Macbeth have any close friends? If so, do any of them know who he really is?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
Who came up with the idea for the Paris scheme against Macbeth? Thailog or Demona?
What did Demona plan on doing with Goliath and his clan if her plan in Hunter's Moon had succeeded?
Present it as a fait accomplis and hope that they came around...
But who are we kidding? The notion that Demona gave much real thought to the aftermath of Operation Clean Slate is iffy.
Demona seemed pretty pleased with Goliath's vengeful attitude towards the Hunters in HM, part two. She even comments "perhaps you and I are not so different after all." This was quite a change from her usual homicidal rage towards him. Why did she behave so differently towards him?
Again, I'm tempted to just say "Why do ya think?"
I mean, haven't you really answered your own question?
Is Macbeth conciously aware of how much his morals have changed since his youth? He does things in the present that he would never have done when he was young (attacking innocents to trap an enemy, theft, etc...) If he does realize how much he's changed, how does he feel about it?
I'll leave that to audience interpretation, I think.
You said that Gruoch's brother, MacBodhe, was murdered in 1033, and that Gillecomgain was the one that assasinated him. How is this possible? Gillecomgain died in 1032.
I'm pretty sure I said that King Maol Chalvim II (or some combination of Maol & Duncan and/or someone OTHER than Gillecomgain that one or the other hired) murdered MacBodhe in 1033. If I said anything to imply that Gillecomgain himself killed MacBodhe, that was an error. But I don't think I said that.
In 1020, Gruoch and Bodhe are referred to as guests at Moray castle. Where did they live, and how often did they visit Moray after Findlaech's death?
They did not live at Castle Moray. I'm sure Bodhe had his own keep, but that keep was somewhere in Moray, and Bodhe's family were probably frequent guests of the Castle.
What did Bodhe think of Gruoch being betrothed to Gillecomgain? He didn't seem nearly as enthusiastic at that wedding as he was when she married Macbeth. Which 'suitor' did he prefer her being married to?
I think he LIKED Macbeth better (who wouldn't?) but he was too afraid to defy Duncan.
In COS part one, when Findlaech raises his sword to kill Gillecomgain, Bodhe can be seen next to Gruoch behind him at the entrance to the balcony. Do you consider this an animation mistake or canon?
I'd have to look at it again.
Why didn't Goliath and co. (when they were in Paris) tell Macbeth about the Weird Sisters controlling him and Demona? Even if only to prevent him from being susceptible to their manipulations again.
How do you know they didn't?
What was Hippolyta like? Why did she have a name when most other gargoyles didn't?
Hyppolyta no more had a name than Othello, Desdemona and Iago had names. "Hyppolyta" is a designation for us poor humans.
You've said that Hudson had a young daughter, a generation down from Broadway, that was a child when the clan was smashed. What was she like?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
What was Macbeth's position in WWII? We know he fought in it, but from what angle? Was he in the British or American militaries? Did he fight independently? Other?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
You've said that Macbeth doesn't get involved after the Space Spawn invade Earth in 2198, until some time later. Why? Surely he wouldn't just ignore his planet being taken over. He fought in WWII. Why would he stay out of this far more important war?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
Why did Goliath forgive the Captain of the Guards? Sure, he may not have intended for the Gargoyles to die, but he had no problems with the deaths of the soldiers of the castle, the refugees who were unlikely to be spared, etc... He even helped Hakon chase down Katherine when she tried to flee. This guy's just as creepy as any other villain we've seen.
Forgiveness helps the forgiver at least as much as the forgiven. Or that's the theory.
Macbeth said to King Arthur that he was too long a king to serve another. Does this mean that he's never served or worked for anyone post-1057?
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that.
How did Xanatos' mother die? How did Xanatos react?
I'm not telling this story at this time.
You've hinted that Luach was conceived during the time that Gruoch was married to Gillecomgain, with Macbeth being the father. Why would he and Gruoch take such a risk? He gave her up for her own safety... committing adultery would probably have resulted in her execution.
Yep. So why would they take the risk?
The only answer I have is... why do you think?
Just to be clear, I'd like to make the point that I haven't "hinted" that Luach was conceived during Gruoch's marriage to Gillecomgain. Luach was definitely conceived during that time. I have suggested that PERHAPS Macbeth was the biological father, but that neither Gruoch or Macbeth know for sure.
What does Demona think of Delilah?
What do you think she thinks?
What does Elisa think of Delilah? It must be pretty disconcerting to know there's a clone of her and Demona.
As of issue #2 of the comic book, Elisa hasn't seen Delilah in person. But knowing someone like Delilah exists is probably disconcerting enough.
This is the first of MANY questions. I've submitted them individually, despite shared subjects. I didn't want an entire lot of questions removed because one was judged to be against the rules. I'm praying that these don't get deleted because I posted them all separately. Anyway... here goes.
Does Xanatos regret any of the things he's done during the course of the series? For moral reasons, not because the plan failed. Is there anything he's done that he's felt was morally wrong?
Xanatos is (a) largely amoral and (b) not one to cry over spilled milk.
HUNTER'S MOON, PART ONE
The beginning of the end (so to speak…).
I have to say, GARGOYLES was the first animated series I remember that actually seemed to have "Season Finales"--it just made it that much more special for me.
The "HUNTER'S MOON" title font is in red (as opposed to the usual blue color). It really helps set this apart from the other episodes, and indicates that "Big Things" are about to happen in the world of the show (at least, to me). I have to ask, Greg, when did you guys decide to change the font color for this three-parter?
The re-made Gillecomgain sequence is cool, despite the erroneous use of Demona's older model. I always notice that Demona's line from CITY OF STONE ("That'll teach you humans to betray us") is shortened here to just "That'll teach you humans." Was that done for time, or just to avoid getting bogged down with trying to explain the reference?
I can't help but hold a bit of fascination for Gil's father. The guy is an unsympathetic jerk, but his attitude toward the idea of "a rogue gargoyle looking for food" surprised me. He doesn't seem to view them with any of the venom or disdain (or even wonder) that we've seen others show. In fact, (like your ramble says) he just seems to view such things as a part of life. He almost reminds me of a quote attributed to W. C. Fields, "I am completely without prejudice; I hate everyone equally" (quote approximate). I guess, in that way, I dislike him a little less than I do Gillecomgain and many of the other Hunter's.
Anyway, flash forward to the present and the subway.
Yes, I did recognize Elisa in her disguise--the outfit may have been different but I'd already seen Elisa in that blonde wig, and well, "Fool me once…."
The three muggers make another of their little appearances, this time with slightly different character models: trench coats just big enough to conceal weapons (I only point this out here because I didn't really notice it until I read your memos, Greg).
The one thug's line (when threatening Elisa) about settling for a "first date" made me raise my eyebrows a bit. It's another one of those suggestive lines, and for me actually helped add another layer of realism to the scene.
We get our little list of cameos on the train (complete with a bickering session between Margot and Brendan), and then the gargoyles arrive.
One thing I've always noticed about the subway fight sequence (aside from the brief shot of Goliath with grey eyes), is that the only gargoyles who engage in any action are Goliath (who does pretty much everything), Brooklyn (who tears a hole in the ceiling only to get a shot across his arm) and Angela (who glides down to assist Brooklyn). What were Broadway and Lex given to do in all this? Play "Rock, Paper, Scissors?" And they're even the ones crowing loudest on their way home ("Are we good or what?"--I wouldn't know since you didn't DO anything!). ;-)
The third mugger's voice seems to change. When he first spoke back in the subway station he's voiced by one guy (kind of sounds like Tom Wilson) but when he pulls his gun on Goliath ("Tough luck, handsome") he's voiced by another guy (sounds like Jim Cummings). Another one of those things I always seem to notice.
You mentioned Demona's change being a bit "anime" in your ramble, Greg, and I noticed that as well, but it wasn't the only bit of "anime-like" animation I remember. When Elisa delivers her "Just some concerned citizens…with wings" line (LOVE that, BTW) and continuing through the next scene up until the gargs' arrival at the Clock Tower, the animation always struck me as having a style similar to anime. Mostly it's their eyes; the way they blink and close.
At any rate, Greg, you guys definitely established the status quo of life being good for the gargoyles at this place and time. And I was even beginning to see the Broadway/Angela relationship. I know that my brother was one of those who followed the idea of Brooklyn/Angela, and Angela's tending Brooklyn's wounds probably helped convince him, but for myself I figured it would be Broadway and Angela as soon as I saw them roosting next to each other. That's right; POSSESSION didn't influence me one way or the other, but seeing the two of them in such close proximity convinced me they were going to be an item. Just the funny way my mind works, I guess.
Now we meet Jason for the first time (and he's revealed in almost the same manner Matt was back in THE EDGE), but Elisa's reaction could not be more different (it's actually a nice little comedic beat the way she shifts gears like she does).
During the conversation in the car, it's obvious (to me at any rate) that Jason was hiding something (this is based mostly on the way he sidesteps the question of where he transferred from). One thing I notice is that although he brings up the subject of urban myths, he never mentions gargoyles. This provides an intriguing contrast with Jon's approach, which I'll get to later.
During the robbery and its subsequent chase sequence, Jason does all the things we say cops should do in that situation--he shoots the flammable material, he shoots out the tire of the getaway van. The thing is, to me, this is a subtle indication that Jason is not a real cop. I don't know for certain, but I think discharging a firearm (shooting a gun) from a moving vehicle is technically against regulations. Of course, Elisa doesn't bat an eye, but this is the gal who walked right into the men's locker room.
There are some fun moments in the chase. Elisa muttering, "My mechanic's going to love this" when she starts to drive "off-road" (said mechanic will love all the bullet holes even less). Also, the stage coach horse understandably rears up as the two vehicles pass pretty much under it's bucking legs, but the stage coach driver isn't fazed at all. I guess it's just another day at work for him.
Eventually, the cops catch the bad guys (most of them, anyway) and the new partners compliment each other's respective abilities. Then Jason offers to buy Elisa a cup of coffee. I hear that, and I think to myself, "Uh-oh." Another guy might be coming between Goliath and Elisa (unknowingly, of course). Our heroes "calm bay" has started to develop waves….
Anyway, Robyn is interviewing over at Nightstone Unlimited. I always wondered why she singled out that company as the one to infiltrate. Maybe she caught rumors about Dominique Destine's never having been seen at night….
I can definitely see the idea of her as a female Owen: stoic demeanor, "pointed" face, blue eyes, blonde hair. Give her a pair of wire frame glasses and it'd be a perfect match!
And may I just say that I love Dominique's business dress. In fact, Demona presents herself very well as a businesswoman, except when she gets angry, of course (it's almost comical when she looks about ready to rip the burglar to pieces in her business suit).
And yes, her change kicks ass. I just wish the animators had remembered to leave off her tiara.
Is it just me, or is Act 2 of this ep shorter than usual? I swear it just seems to fly by.
I love the scene of Xanatos playing with Alex while being interviewed by Matt. I did believe Xanatos when he said DI-7 was a disinfectant--I had no reason to suspect him of ulterior motives at this point. Matt, of course, tries to give his best, "I'm a good guy who knows you're dirty" barb, but Xanatos just deflects it by asking his son, "Alex, can you say 'harassment?'" Alex babbles some baby talk, and Xanatos says, "I knew that you could." I love that little moment.
Goliath's reaction to Elisa's description of her new partner always intrigued me. When she's doing nothing but complimenting him, he's smiling, even seems somewhat amused, but when she tries to downplay it, his smile vanishes. He's able to pick up on her personality quirks. Seems like they're in a relationship to me!
The gargoyles seem to be going REALLY fast when they glide past camera on their way to their stakeout locations. Just something that really struck me this time.
But now we meet Jon, posing as a reporter for WVRN. He also seems to be trying to collect information on gargoyles, but he's nowhere near as subtle as Jason. "Gargoyles" are practically the first thing Jon mentions, and the only thing he talks about. No wonder Xanatos is so suspicious.
"If you brought them before me now, I'd happily pulverize them on the spot." It's a funny thing, but I while I still believed in Xanatos's truce with the clan, I never doubted that he would love another sparring match with them.
I am surprised that Jon managed to find a piece of stone skin at the Eyrie Building, though. I mean, what with the fights in CITY OF STONE, KINGDOM, and THE GATHERING that little piece must have been on a very remote corner of the Roof not to get picked up by a cleaning crew. (I'm sorry, I don't mean to nit-pick this much, but…well, there it is!).
The gargs run into trouble at each of their respective stakeouts. I did get the little moment where Lex and Broadway point at Brooklyn in answer to the question "Who wants to explain this to Goliath." As for the bit where Demona's particle beam rifle (or whatever) is able to puncture glass and an entire van, but fails to go through Brooklyn's car door shield…I can only guess that her first few shots had drained her rifle's power cell. It's not much of an explanation but it works for me.
I love the animation of Brooklyn and Demona's fight; it's short but the play of lighting when they're struggling in the foreground and the fire's burning in the background is just wonderful.
But while the Trio and Bronx are dealing with Demona, Goliath, Hudson and Angela face the new threat. As soon as the Hunter's appeared, and I noticed there were two guys and one gal, I pretty much figured out who they were. It is interesting, for me, to compare and contrast their suits. The predominant color scheme is black and red, with a bit of blue thrown in here in there. Actually Jon and Jason's suits are almost opposites in this regard (some of the pieces of armor the two suits share are blue on Jason's suit, and red on Jon's). Of course, another difference is the manner of gloves on the costumes. Jason is the only one to wear full gloves. Jon wears none, but has full sleeves while Jason goes bare-armed. Robyn has gloves, but they don't cover her fingers, and her upper arms are bare (it leaves me to wonder how worried they were about fingerprints). . Then there are the masks. The men have the same traditional Hunter's mask, but Robyn wears a modified version, with the mouth area bare and the hair free. She shows even more skin, actually, what with her bare midriff and all.
But here I am going over the differences in their wardrobe while they're giving our heroes a really hard time.
The weapons they use against the gargs indicate the time, training, and money they put into their hunt. Seriously, they've probably brought as much technology against the gargs as Xanatos ever did. I'm especially enamored of Raptor, the robotic bird that Jon had and which, unfortunately, gets destroyed and never seen again. I can't say for certain why I like it--it strikes me as a pointlessly complicated hunting implement. Actually, now that I think on it, Raptor is the perfect weapon for Jon--after all, he just tells the thing to attack and then stands passively back while the bird does all his hunting work, as opposed to Jason and Robyn who use their own weapons.
Just before he shoots Angela with the electricity thing, Jason looks at her and narrows his eyes. This leads me to believe that he knew, even before he fired, that she wasn't "the Demon."
Later, in the airship, when one of the Hunter's (Jon, of course) brought up that the "other gargoyles might not be" evil, I was fascinated by this dissension in the ranks, so to speak. I liked that one of the Hunter's was questioning the idea of "all gargoyles" being evil, and I thought that maybe at least one of the Hunter's would end up helping the clan.
Boy, did I pick the wrong Hunter (but that comes later). For now, though, Jason is blinded by his hatred against the gargoyles. Robyn, prudently enough, takes no part in her brothers' "disagreement."
I wasn't quite sure if you guys were going to kill off Angela or not. On the one hand, I felt that you guys had too much development invested in her character to just kill her off like that. Besides, there was no way BS&P would allow it. On the other hand, you guys had surprised me in the past….
And you surprised me here, too, when Goliath swore vengeance on the Hunter's while glaring into the camera, saying, "…and I will KILL them." At that moment, I fully realized how rarely the word "kill" is used in American animation. GARGOYLES only used it once before, to my knowledge (DEADLY FORCE, where Broadway tells Goliath that he "can't kill" Dracon). Consequently, its use here had the desired effect; I knew that something had snapped inside Goliath, and he meant to do precisely what he said. Chilling.
All in all, an excellent start that left me eager for the next episode.
I honestly have no memory of changing the font color. It is, I suppose, easy enough to blame my color deficiency, but the truth is I can tell red from blue. Either it was a call made by our post-production supervisor, Jeffrey Arthur or by Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard (and I either approved or didn't notice) -- or by me and it's just been too long for me to recall that I made that call.
(Note: My ramble is a little patchier this time, most likely the result of spreading it out over a few days).
Puck gives Alex his first magic lesson, and Coldstone gets his personality problem resolved.
The opening in the Himalayas is pretty neat (I love how Coldstone takes out one robot by burrowing through the snow), and, personally, I'm kind of glad you guys didn't do the "Yeti" thing with him here (of course, I have no idea what would have happened in your lost "comic book story" set in the Himalayas (and all you've told us about it so far is that it takes place during the World Tour and features Coldstone) so I have no idea if you were going to do the "Coldstone-pretending-to-be-Yeti" thing or not).
One thing I noticed: the Steel Clan's POV shots are very different from how they were in the first season (there it was green night vision, here it's some sort of red vision). I guess I kind of like the style of the first season better there--just a personal preference.
One thing of note, this is the last appearance of the Steel Clan robots and Xanatos's gargoyle armor in the whole series.
Loved the "Bewitched" reference. Also loved the "gargoyle-teddy bear."
It would have been nice if the mention of the opera "Otello" had made it into the episode, but there's only so much time available.
Somehow, I kind of figured out who "Goliath" and "Hudson" really were before they revealed themselves. Although Puck may do a better Goliath than Proteus, he still doesn't sound quite like Goliath (and he smiles way too much). And, as soon as I guessed who "Goliath" was, it was fairly easy to deduce who "Hudson" was (and notice that he didn't say a word at all the whole time).
Actually, I was able to guess a lot about where things were going, especially when I heard about the "soul transference" bit. And as soon as Coldstone started working without any of his three souls, I kind of figured Puck was the one pulling the strings. Lex getting possessed I hadn't expected, but as soon as it happened, there was really only one character it could have been. And when Coldsteel and Coldfire were revealed, I kind of figured what the ending would be.
So, for me, this became more about character than plot. It was also a great way to listen to the actors performing a different character with the same voice. Kudos to the cast members for their wonderful work.
I, too, noticed that Desdemona seemed more reluctant than Othello to remain in their new bodies. Here, as in HIGH NOON and even in LEGION, she sometimes takes on the role of conscience and voice of reason for Othello. She compliments her mate very well.
And, as in those previous episodes (and RE-AWAKENING) Othello shows himself to be a little more selfish. In the end he tends to make the right decision (albeit with a fair amount of prodding). Actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if most people in the world aren't like Othello.
Great little moment: Othello/Broadway: "I had forgotten the warm touch of your hand…the sweet scent of your hair."
Angela/Desdemona: "But…it is not my hair."
And then Iago/Brooklyn arrives to whisper in their ears (isn't that what all Iagos do?). I love his little "Oh, yes, that's a plus" after Othello/Broadway talks about "the evil one" being gone.
Another note: at both the Clock Tower and Lady Liberty, when Broadway/Othello mentions "the evil one," the camera is on Brooklyn. I just noticed that here.
I love it how the ensorcelled Bronx just trots away and plops down next to the bound and gagged Lexington. It's just one of those cases where you can almost feel Lex's frustration.
Looking over your outline, Greg, I find myself rereading the ultimately discarded scene of Iago/Brooklyn hooking Lex up to a death trap and "telling his evil plot." Mostly just because of the brief bit of how he would "use his position as Goliath's right hand to destroy Goliath and rule the clan." I thought this extra bit of plotting was rather interesting because we know so little about Iago's goals beyond taking Desdemona.
Truth be told, he has always intrigued me because, in many ways he is the only "natural-born" evil gargoyle we've met so far in the series. I mean, we see Demona's tragic past and how she was "made a villain" so to speak; Yama was only misguided and foolish, but tries to repent; and Thailog (and even the rest of the clones) were more-or-less created to be what they became. Iago is the only gargoyle we know of who has been evil without any real explanation and for this reason (as well as the fact that he was a villain in their "old life" along with the Archmage) he fascinates me. I would have loved to see more of him in the "DARK AGES" spin-off, and I am hoping to see more of Coldsteel in the comic.
Overall though, comparing the outline to the episode, I'm kind of glad you guys just simplified beats 15 and 16. That added business about the Coldstone shell developing its own personality--while admittedly intriguing--was a bit superfluous (especially since we the audience already know Puck's behind it).
I love Lex's groan, "Twice in one night…". I feel sorry for the poor little guy-ensorcelled, jumped from behind, trussed up, and jumped from behind again! And after all that, he gets possessed himself! Of course, in this case, the new tenant is a pleasant one.
Iago/Brooklyn: "I'm sure she'll be heartbroken at first, but these new bodies should help ease the pain." For me, that is one of the most suggestive lines in the series. And hey, Iago knows how to say "good-bye" in French!
"By the Dragon!" This is the closest we get to any sort of "oath" in the series (well…there's "Jalapena" but I'm not counting that… ;-)). I still wonder what exactly this phrase is referencing.
Alex/Lex unties Hudson and Goliath, dropping them on their heads. Goliath's response: "Well, that's one way to do it." This stands out to me because it's one of the few times Goliath makes a joke or other humorous statement.
Othello/Broadway confronts Iago/Brooklyn by saying, "Brooklyn's body does not belong to you. Give it back!"
A rather hypocritical statement since he himself was seriously considering keeping Broadway's body a bare few moments ago. Now that I think of it, I wonder if Iago might not be referencing that when he retorts, "So that I can return to cyberspace or fade away into nothing? Is that the choice *you* were leaning towards?" Othello/Broadway looks like he's about to hit him, but then just drops him instead.
I love how Iago complains about Brooklyn's "fighting skills." If Iago's in control, shouldn't that mean it's Iago's fighting skills that are being used?
I was very pleased you guys got Coldsteel and Coldfire's voice-actors (Xander Berkeley and C.C.H. Pounder) to do the one or two lines each character had in their actual voice.
Brooklyn: "And this 'scrawny gargoyle' will be waiting!"
Reading over the outline, I was pleased you guys decided to have Brooklyn remember the experience. His line "I remember every creepy thing that jerk made me do" kind of highlights the sort of violation he must have felt at that. As a result, I'm left wondering how much the others remember of their possessions. Lex obviously seems to remember being inhabited by Alex, but what about Broadway and Angela? They did seem at least mildly surprised to "come back to themselves" while in an embrace (not that they seemed upset…).
Lex about Alex passing his lesson: "He had a little help."
I always took this to mean that Alex used Lex's language facilities (as well as motor skills) to properly cast the spell. But I wonder how well Alex understood what he was saying. As a child, I learned the Pledge of Allegiance word-for-word, but for years they were only a collection of words in a certain order. I never really thought about what they actually said. I wonder if it's the same for Alex and the spell.
I love Goliath's tired "Let's go home."
Going back to the outline again, beat 17 has Xanatos being momentarily surprised and/or confused by Owen's explanation that "the Coldstone dilemma has been solved." I never saw that in the actual episode myself. Actually, I've wondered if Xanatos's earlier "Bewitched" reference might not have been just a long shot by Xanatos of planting an idea in Owen's head. Of course, maybe I'm just giving Xanatos way to much credit on that score.
This is a good, solid ep all-around with great characters and performances.
Always take the outlines with a grain of salt, at least. Only the final episode is canon.
And once more, on with the Rambling!
I always found the revelation that this episode was originally supposed to be a two-part season finale kind of interesting. There certainly is a lot here that would work perfectly for a season finale (a mass battle between our heroes and their clones/counterparts, the actual meeting between Demona and Angela), and I will personally admit that I would have LOVED for this to have been a two-parter (there's just so much crammed into this one episode!). On the other hand, it is missing an element that I would consider important to any GARGOYLES season finale: Xanatos.
Sure, he would have been a bit superfluous to this ep, but considering that the season began with him as the "main villain" it seems only natural to me that he should play some part in any finale the season might have.
Anyway, onto the episode itself….
An interesting aspect about the episode's opening shot is that it changes to a POV shot through binoculars. Now, just who was spying on our heroes here? I would have to guess, Thailog, myself. Demona's already encased in her "clever tin can" robbing the Golden Cup (you'd think the government people running the place would realize that hiding in plain sight isn't working anymore).
Demona's exo-frame has a very unique design to it--bubble cockpit, hole for her tail, etc. It's also interesting just for the fact that this is the first time she's used it, and I find myself wondering why. Up until now, she's used spells, a poison dart gun, particle beam cannons, and occasionally a mace. Now here's the exo-frame. Part of the plan, maybe? Oh well, it makes for some great action.
Animation nit: Demona electrocutes Brooklyn, and the little electric aura stays around Demona for the remainder of the fight without seeming to affect anyone else. It is a bit distracting.
I have to admit, I did misread Angela's concern for Brooklyn here, a little bit. I realize I've used the excuse of "falling back on expectations for animated action/adventure shows" before, but it really is my chief explanation for misreading things like this.
I loved the tidbit about gargoyle culture concerning their punishments (nice to finally have that). And I was pleased that Brooklyn was the one who came up with a place to keep Demona, and I knew that it would involve the Mutates. But I didn't know it was the Labyrinth. Why? Because I had still not seen THE CAGE or KINGDOM by this point and had no idea it even existed. Consequently, this was my first view of the "new" Maggie, Claw and Fang (I had seen "new" Talon in UPGRADE). Somehow, I recognized that they were in the old Cyberbiotics underground lab. I also wasn't surprised to discover that one of the Mutates was a bad guy (I saw this coming since the scene in METAMORPHOSIS where the as-yet-unnamed-Fang indicated his enjoyment of his new body). Still, it always drove me crazy that I had missed out on those stories during their first run. Ah, well….
One thing that jumped out at me on this viewing was Elisa's line, "Do you know what you're committing yourself to?" in reference to guarding Demona. It is kind of easy to miss the sheer enormity of the task they are setting for themselves (guarding an immortal sorceress around the clock).
Angela wants to take the first watch--understandable, especially since she hasn't had the same experiences with Demona the others have. Goliath, just as understandably, tries to dissuade her, which only makes her angry. In the end, Hudson showcases why he's the "wise one" by giving Angela the first watch, but with an admonition that Demona "is capable of anything." And it is that warning that Angela flashes back to over THREE MONTHS LATER when she and her clan are facing certain death because of Demona.
When Demona awakens she leaps at Angela and latches onto the bars of her prison. Angela is understandably taken aback--Demona does indeed look ferocious. She's literally climbing the bars, snarling, wings flapping…but her eyes are not glowing. A subtle hint, perhaps, that this part, at least, is an act.
I do find myself thinking that Demona's disbelief over Angela's identity is more real than feigned, even if Sevarius has already clued her in about Angela's parentage. As you've said, Greg, knowing something and experiencing it are two different things.
At this point, Angela actually perks up and starts to tell Demona about Avalon, only for Demona to rant about humans stealing away "our children." Angela tries to disabuse her of that idea and explains that the Princess is a part of her clan "just as you are." It's almost sad how optimistic Angela is about Demona. I can almost hear Angela thinking to herself, "No matter what she's done, I know I'll be the one to redeem her."
Demona, starts trying to win over Angela, even trying to guilt her into it ("If you are *truly* my daughter…").
There is something a little melodramatic about all this…which makes it a wonderful moment when Fang interrupts the mood and observes "You chicks are better than soaps!"
I love the way Fang counts the days.
Demona unleashes the mosquito and suddenly the rest of the mosquito attacks from earlier in the episode take on a more ominous tone.
I loved seeing Sevarius again (why not, it's more Tim Curry!), but Thailog! Ah, that magnificent bastard. On my first viewing, I realized by this point that we would be taking on the clones of the rest of the clan, and was quite pleased by the prospect. A little…"shadow-boxing," shall we say, is always fun.
Actually, it's amazing how calm Sevarius seems around Thailog here, considering that the gargoyle tried to kill him the previous year. Amazing what a briefcase full of money can do. Of course, Sevarius offers the fruits of his experience about "programming" the clones, "Keep it simple. You don't want to end up with another you."
And during this time, Angela is trying to talk to Demona about the latter's crimes. I love Demona's line here: "How can you judge me? You have been hiding on a magical island while I have been living in the real world." Demona may be in the wrong about a LOT of things, but that is a pretty good point.
Demona starts to change (into a human), Fang rushes to watch and after it's over remarks, "Kinky." One would think he'd be used to it by now seeing as he's been her neighbor for FIVE WEEKS!! I guess, like Elisa's reaction to the gargs' awakenings, he never gets tired of it.
Now, I have to dwell on something about this episode that is real easy to miss. It takes place over the course of THREE MONTHS. That's actually a fair amount of time if you think about it. I find myself wondering about Demona and Angela's conversations, what things were like with the other gargoyles when they stood guard (particularly Goliath, Brooklyn and Hudson), Demona's full reaction to the Mutates (man, I would LOVE to see that) and about any of the adventures going on topside.
A lot can happen in three months…then again, a lot of nothing can also happen in three months.
Anyway, eventually the "breakout" occurs and even Fang gets freed. I love his reactions when he thinks Demona's going to fry him. Not just his lines (which are good and already transcribed elsewhere) but also the fact that he tries to hide under his bed sheet! And when Demona frees him, saying that "he's a fool but he might be useful" Fang immediately pipes up, "I can work with that!"
I am intrigued by what appears to be continued tension between Goliath and Talon. When the two track the escapees to the fun house, Goliath tells Talon to stay there while he goes to get reinforcements (I doubt Goliath realized he sounded like he was giving an order). Talon doesn't seem too happy about this arrangement, though he does make the best of it (scouting the place out). When I first saw this, I had left Talon still blaming the gargoyles for his mutation; so seeing them on friendly terms was a bit of a jump for me. This moment sort of "threw me back" as it were to the previous dynamic.
Anyway, our heroes make the classic horror movie mistake of splitting up to enter the not really deserted fun house, and they pay the price.
The clones themselves are a unique bunch in that they are not exact copies of the heroes, and I'm not just referring to coloring here. Burbank looks to have slightly broader shoulders and a narrower waist than Hudson, in addition to more hair and a longer beard (and a mace instead of a sword). Hollywood (and I just KNEW Broadway's clone would be named Hollywood) seems a bit larger than Broadway, and all the clones have bits and pieces of armor that the originals don't have.
Beyond that, the new clones are even different than Thailog. While Thailog may have different skin, hair, and even eye coloring (red instead of white corneas) than Goliath, his pupils are a natural black, his teeth a natural white, and his tongue and mouth a natural red/pink color. The new clones, however, have black teeth (indicative of a black skeleton), off-white pupils (indicative to me, at least, that they might literally see the world differently) and even discolored mouths. In this way, they are even more "freakish" than Thailog. I suppose it has to do with the fact that Thailog's gestation period was nearly a year, while these guys were rushed through in about three months or so.
But I digress….
The good guys are captured, and then shackled where they regain consciousness. Apparently, Thailog and Demona didn't want our heroes dead right away. Demona obviously wanted to show off her "new clan" (and turn Angela towards her side), while Thailog, I have come to believe, was testing Demona. After all, Angela didn't have to be first, and Thailog's little revelation that Demona knew about Angela since the beginning seemed to be a little too informative for it to have been accidental. This of course incenses Angela, who shows that she takes betrayal about as well as either of her parents.
"I hate you." Angela's eyes even glowed while she said it. And it really hurts Demona, who nevertheless will still not let Thailog kill her.
Delilah is revealed, and she is perhaps the most "normal" looking clone we have seen so far. I mean, not only are her teeth, mouth, and pupils the proper colors, even the corneas of her eyes are white! She looks more natural than Thailog, in other words. Since her gestation was the same as the rest of the new clones, I can only guess that Elisa's human DNA had something to do with this.
Leaving that aside for the moment, Delilah is a VERY attractive mixture of her two "mothers," and her very presence has offered us, the fans, endless speculations about Demona's reaction to her (a hybrid of herself and that most hated human) and Thailog's reasoning in creating her (a hybrid of the two loves of Goliath's life). I also love hearing Salli Richardson doing a gargoyle roar.
The worm turns, or in this case Demona does, and sets the heroes free while she goes after Thailog (who manages to do fairly well at first considering who he's up against). The rest of the heroes mix and match their enemies-the only "counterparts" who face off against each other are Talon and Fang (who inadvertently start the fire). An interesting bit here is that, while Talon's electric blasts are the usual blue/white color all the Mutates' blasts have been up to this point, Fang's are a more red/orange color. Not that I'm complaining, I actually kind of like the distinction from an aesthetic point of view (it's kind of like the color-coded lightsabers).
There are actually some fun, comical moments with the "clone wars." Hollywood's expression just before he crashes into the "test your strength" game, and Burbank and Brentwood's crashing into each other (it doesn't just work on robots!) are particular highlights (as well as Brooklyn's rather vehement "It's all over you…FORGERY!" to Malibu).
I do wish we had been able to see more of Angela and Delilah's "cat fight." What can I say; I can be a shallow guy sometimes.
Eventually, our good guys win, though Demona and Thailog do a "did they die?" disappearing act. The clones (who have some kind of slight reverb to their voice) are lost without the one their programming tells them to obey, and the gargs aren't comfortable around them, so Talon takes them in. This makes perfect sense, seeing as how he has turned the Labyrinth into a homeless shelter, and he promises to teach them to think for themselves, "and use verbs" (a nice little bit, that).
Maybe it's because I like Brooklyn, but I was always a little disappointed that Malibu never got any actual lines.
Angela and Goliath have their moment of doubt over Demona's fate, and Angela feels awful that "I hate you" may be the last thing she ever said to her mother. Now, I admit that, since I knew Demona was going to survive, I didn't quite get into this sentiment as much as maybe you guys would have liked me to, but I did like that Goliath mentioned that Demona's love for Angela was "the first sign of goodness that she has shown in a long, long time." Even "a new beginning," perhaps.
This is a really great episode, and I hope my (extremely overlong) ramble does it justice. I just wish it could have been a two-parter--that is the only real complaint I have with this ep, and that only exists because I found out it was originally supposed to be such.
Heck, I wish EVERY episode could have been an hour instead of a half. But whachagonnado?
Okay, I am going to word this very carefully as I know it treads dangerously close to being an idea rather than a question. I've tried *extremely* hard to keep it within the boundaries of what's allowed. Hopefully you'll see where I'm going with all this. First, some statements:
1. Avalon sends you "where you need to be"
2. The Avalon World Tour resulted in heroes around the globe awakening to their destinies as warriors and protector-figures: the werepanthers in Nigeria, Cuchulain in Ireland, Natsilane in Canada, the Golem in Prague, etc.
3. There are currently several heroes stationed around the world. Such a collective force could come in handy if something...bad were to happen.
So, my very articulatly-worded questions are as follows:
1.a. Is Avalon a conscious entity?
b. If so, did it send Goliath and company to these particular destinations with the specific purpose of activating these heroes?
2. Does Avalon (or alternatively, you) have a master-plan in reawakening these heroes that went beyond protecting people on a global scale?
Okay, I think that should pass the censors. Thanks!
(PS, the comic came through the mail this week and I can't wait for more! From America all the way to Christchurch, New Zealand. Thanks Amazon!)
1a. I'm not going to answer this beyond what you can gather from the series.
b. It sent them where they NEEDED to be.
2. I have a master plan for all these characters, yes.
For your Gargoyles Future Spinoff, was the idea of Brooklyn travelling into the future to help against the alien invaders from the old Superboy and Supergirl comics where they travel into the future and join the Legion of Super Heroes?
I can't deny that as a possible influence -- since of course I'm familiar with the Legion -- but I wasn't specifically thinking of that. The TimeDancer idea came to me before I thought to include Brooklyn in the cast of what eventually became Gargoyles 2198. It just seemed to make sense that if Brook was bouncing around, that one of the eras he'd bounce to is 2198.
I don't usually respond-ramble, but I feel kind of compelled to now that we're running out of show. But also because the Hunter's Moon tryptich is probably my favorite episode of the series.
Unfortunately, I first saw the show twelve years ago (I was ten), and I've watched these episodes a million times since then, so it's difficult to know what I was thinking the time around. It's like the Empire Strikes Back problem; you really can't go back to not knowing how that one ends.
Probably why I'm looking forward to Gargoyles #3.
What impresses me most about Hunter's Moon is how it takes several different storylines to their logical extremes. The last thing I expected in the final episode was to see a vengeful, homocidal Goliath. Very ballsy of you guys to break out a new side of the lead protagonist in the final episode of the series. I've certainly always respected the willingness of the series to demonstrate that these are dynamic characters. I do remember what I was thinking the first time I heard Goliath's last line in part 1, and it blew my mind. To be honest, it starts as a standard empty-threatish cliffhanger line, and I mostly expected it to end with something benign like "And I will make them pay." In fact, that's exactly what I expected next. It is always appreciated when television manages to surprise, so kudos on that last line. Superb.
Demona's plan is also the logical extension of what she's tried to do in already, first to eradicate the humans at Wyvern then to destroy New York. Just like Goliath's concept of what he should protect keeps growing, so does Demona's concept of what she should destroy. I love it.
A final episode usually has a fair amount of hype to live up to, in terms of both scope and closure. (I've always thought of TNG as an example of one that did it right, but that might just be my opinion. I'm also a fan of The Fugitive finale.) Hunter's Moon raised the stakes LOGICALLY to their extreme, so it manages to feel like an episode of the series and a worthy finale at the same time.
Thanks. We tried!
All right. Hi. I already posted a question, but it was kinda sucky, and I wanted to ask one of a more intellectual/character-oriented nature. Demona's character in "Awakening" reminds me much of the character Andrea from Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. (Which is my favourite movie ever, by the way.) Both were love interests to the hero in the past, indepentant, intelligent and strong-willed love interests to be sure... but still love interests.
At a certain point, the hero and the love interest part ways. (With the hero being mis-led in terms of the love interests' parting.) And continue on their lives seperately. Leading very different lives. Eventually, the hero and his love meet up again, and the woman is now a very different person than she was before. Leading the hero to believe nothing's changed, she eventually reveals her true colours at the climax of the series of episodes/movie. (Both hiding themselves from their lovers, knowing that they would never accept what they've become.)
I was just wondering if this was intentional in your thought process, or just a comparison I've dreamed up. As I am a big fan of both of the aformentioned characters.
(P.S. As a side-question, what were your thoughts on the character of Andrea, and the performance of her Actress Dana Delany?)
I have had a crush on Dana Delany for longer than I'm sure either of us would like to admit. Way pre-China Beach. So I thought she was great. It's been years since I saw Mask of the Phantasm, but I thought it was just great at the time, and I still feel that way. I'm sure I liked both Andrea and Delaney's performance.
But as to how much influence Andrea had on me... I'm guessing none. Just because we were in production at the same time. The movie may (I don't remember) have come out first, but I didn't see it until it did come out, so...
Having said that, I think your argument about the parallels are fairly convincing. And although it's probably mostly a case of great minds thinking alike, I can't rule out the possibility of influence, as both Michael Reaves and Frank Paur worked on Batman TAS and may have worked on Mask as well. Still from a story standpoint, I was the guy in charge and we started developing the series including Demona back in 1991 or something, i.e. long before Mask came out.
Where can i find pictures of the Disney Gargoyles? I have a friend who wants tattoos of them but can't find any pictures.
They're all over the place on the internet, but I'd start here:
At Gathering, Part II, when Petros Xanatos shoot and wounded Oberon(deadly, in my opinion) with an iron arrow, why Oberon didn't died? Is he "just" valnerable to iron, or can die by it?
For example, if you cut Oberon's head with an iron sword, would Oberon died?
He can die from prolonged exposure, but assuming the exposure isn't prolonged to the point of death, he can recover by having the exposure "removed". (Think Kryptonite, for lack of a better term.) So the answer to your first question is both.
Having said that, I did feel like we cheated a bit in Gathering II.
And I would think that if you managed to cut off Oberon's head with an iron sword, he would in fact die... assuming he didn't see it coming and removed his own head to dodge the blow.
So if the Canmore's are named after your sibblings, does that mean that Elisa's sister Beth is named after your wife? Or is that just a coinsidence? (Like there's such a thing as coinscidence on "Gargoyles"....
It's not a coincidence.
"The Reckoning" is one of my favorite episodes, especially because of all the great stuff involving Demona and her very complex character. I especially love the scene where she frees the clan, imploring Goliath to "save their daughter!" There's one thing that has been confusing me that I was hoping you could clear up. When Demona is trying to stop Thailog from shooting Angela, he said that she knew she was her daughter before they staged her capture, and Angela is outraged because Demona knew the whole time. However, I missed how this could have happened. I have a much easier time believing that Demona was genuinely confused in Paris, and the next time she saw her was in "The Reckoning." It seems to me to be more logical that given the order of events, Demona did indeed find out about Angela being her daughter when she told her in the jail, as opposed to finding out beforehand. How did Demona know before they staged her capture?
Sevarius knew, remember (from "Monsters")? And Demona, Thailog and Sevarius planned "Reckoning"'s whole cloning thing together. SO... sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Sevarius filled her in.
How long were Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx missing from Manhattan during the World Tour? In other words, how long was it?
I'm fairly certain this info is ALREADY in the archives, but...
Goliath, Elisa and Bronx left Central Park for Avalon on Thursday, December 28th, 1995.
They returned to Manhattan with Angela on Tuesday, July 9th, 1996.
So they were gone just over six months.
I read the preview of the new comic series online and I couldn't be more excited. I will be ordering a copy from the local comic shoppe as soon as possible. I obviously would prefer a new television show but as a comic fan I can certainly enjoy this format. I am just glad to have new stories. Watching reruns for the third or fourth time late at night on Toon Disney just isn't cutting it anymore.
My question is how involved are the Quarrymen going to be in the new series? I am sure you had/have a different idea in mind than what was done in the Goliath Chronicles. However, I really can't stand them. They came off like one of the lame single-minded villainous organizations you find in early eighties cartoons.
I shouldn't be worried, I trust you on this. I am sure the comic will be great. The first and second seasons were never anything short of fantastic but the Quarrymen just carry a certain stigma. I mean no disrespect to the people who put together the third season but it just wasn't ... well... it wasn't that good.
I would also like to say thank you for one of the best shows of my childhood. Sorry if I rambled a bit.
The Quarrymen were MY idea, introduced in the only episode I wrote for Goliath Chronicles, i.e. "The Journey", which was adapted into the comic as the two-part story "Nightwatch" and "The Journey". I like to think that the orgainzation showed some potential and interest as I portrayed them, and I further hope that how they were portrayed in the last 12 episodes of Goliath Chronicles will not totally sour fans on the concept. The Quarrymen make small appearances in issues #3-4, and then don't appear in #5-7. So one thing I've got going for me is that they shouldn't overwhelm the series, the way they seemed to on Goliath Chronicles. Also, I'm hoping that our presentation of the Quarrymen in the comics will be more interesting and more complex moving forward. Still I can't exactly GUARANTEE that I'll be able to change your mind. But at least you can rest assured that if the Quarrymen don't do it for you, we'll have plenty of other villains/opponents/characters etc. who might.
Sorry if I rambled a bit. ;)
I can't believe I'm evening asking this, it's so stupid.... but I was just skimming thru the archives, and found (from WAY back in 2003 or so, which makes me feel all the more stupid bringing this up) that u wanted Demona in the music video for "White Flag"
This is so eerie, b/c I thought the EXACT SAME THING when I heard that song. It would have been a heck of a lot more creepy if I didn't do that with nearly EVERY song I hear these days (at least when I'm bored.)
But there's one song in particular where it seems like EVERY FREAKIN' LYRIC is talking about Demona (please don't laugh or anything)- Avril Lavigne's "Happy Ending." Yes, Avril's kinda a guilty pleasure for me. The point is, I was just wondering if you had ever heard that song. I'm sorry for wasting your time (and completely embarressing myself) over such a dumb, DUMB question, but I just HAD to ask it. Just, do me a favor and ask Erin if she's got the CD ("Under My Skin") It's just, it's like if you guys ever did a Gargoyles musical (PLEASE don't!) I would expect her to sing that song to Goliath (who I think some kid wanted to sing Barry White-which I agree with, but I'm not too passionate about that.)
Anyway, done making a fool of myself, I'll just crawl under a rock now.
P.S.: Oh to heck with it, I've already made a complete idiot out of myself, I may as well do some product placement. If anyone besides Greg is reading this, please check out my new fanfics on the official gargoyles website (I know Greg's not gonna read it, and I simply have no shame.)
I've heard some Avril songs on the radio, but I can't remember the titles, so I'm not sure if I've ever heard "Happy Ending" or not. I don't recall ever hearing an Avril song and going, "Hey, that's totally Demona." Whereas, "White Flag" really made me feel that way.
Saturday's Gathering Journal
Apologizes for delays between posting of parts of my Gathering journal. [I am working on the mystery of Sunday's gathering journal or rather trying to put the pieces of what happenned that day together because I've been trying to work out that since I got back.]
I got up early and start writing the story of how I got here while waiting for A Fan to wake up. A Fan woke up, we talked, took showers, and headed downstairs to get breakfast. Thanks for A Fan's special deal, we got a free breakfast buffet, which I enjoyed. I ordered Cold Rasberry Tea (I'm from Arkansas so I prefer tea both sweat and cold.) I got to chat with A Fan, getting to know him more. Afterwards, I went back to my hotel room to look at the schedule and decided to go to Radio Play auditions to have some fun, not expecting to be chosen. Unknown to you, Greg Weisman, there was a Bnai Mitzuah (Hebrew translation: Children of Commandment) going on next door and Siryn had to get on to us a few times to be quiet out of respect for the group next door. Afterwards, I enjoyed my free time. I saw the con chair and stopped to thank her for for her work, recognizing the amount of work going into the Gathering. Then I sorta migrated to the Gargoyles Development Process Panel after following Greg Weisman's pleasant but brief unexpected presence in the Gargoyles Physiology, Psychology, & Society panel. After the Gargoyles Development PRocess panel finished/Writing Panel started, I left to get signature on my gargoyles dvds. I got a signature and went to lunch. Once I finished lunch, I hung out, waiting for the Radio Play. I was not disappointed. The voice for Demona was great and once I learned it was CrzyDemona doing it, it made sense. I liked the actor playing Hudson. Connecting the voice of Lexington with the face came as a shock. I envisioned the actor being younger. Keith David was spectular. After the radio play, I hung out while A Fan was gathering people to go to a restaurant. When we got to the restaurant, we changed our mind and ended up eating at an Italian place. After I ate supper, I headed back to my hotel room to deposit leftovers in the fridge. My brother called me so I called him back and we talked for about 30 minutes. Then I wandered around, eventually meeting up with Gorebash. I thanked him for the work on Ask Greg, citing my understanding of what he's gone through, based on what I've gone through so far in working on a database system for the tgs website. Then I went to my hotel room to do more writing on this journal. A Fan arrved, saying thecon suite was overfull from mug-a-guest and he had left. We chatted for a while and he went to sleep. I decided to do Tigris Euphrates a favor and changed her listed on credits to the proper one on some tgs pages. Time for Saturday night bed or is it Sunday morning?
To be continued with "What the Heck Happenned to Time on Sunday?"
Yeah, what did happen to time on Sunday? I mean in general. That day always seems to just fly by.
I have two questions about the Gargoyles Comic book. (Congradulations by the way! ^_^)
I: Should it prove succesful, will you do the spin-offs?
II: When should we expect Trade Paperbacks, and where can we find out updates on release dates? I ask this because I am unable to get comics as they come out annualy. The closest Comic book store is about a 25-minute drive on the Interstate, so you can see the practicality problems with gas prices the way they are. (That, and I don't know how to get there.) HOWEVER! I do make the occasional trip to Barns & Noble or Borders with my mom and I always take enough money to pick up a TPB or two.
1. Success if relative, but the short answer is yes.
2. I don't know. You could always try ordering the comic on line, of course.
My "Hunter's Moon Part 1 Ramble"
This is the only HM I've seen ( I don't know if any of you remember, but ABC family stopped showing Gargoyles after HM2-talk about a mean cliff hanger for the curfue-challenged!)
Me and my friend Danielle have always refered to what you called "the barn" scene as the apple scene, due to Demona's lovely table manners (yuck!)
I saw this one before City of Stone, but it was still very easy to follow. I noticed, however, in this flashback she's seems more middle aged than she did in CS. (Oh, the wrinkles. The stress of her life as a guilt-ridden refugee does NOT cause her to age very well, does it? I recall yelling something along the lines of "Macbeth, Macbeth, where for art thou, Macbeth?! Come forth and give this poor soul thy youth so my eyes can stop BLEEDING!" at the screen.)
Kids can be so cruel.
Danielle (who had already seen every episode) pointed Elisa in her wig before I really registered her. I think I suspected, though.
I still remember the commercials with "concerned citizens with wings" tagline. Oh, for the good old days!
Being preteen girls, we were really more concerned about how hot Jason was to really establish whether or not he was evil. I think Dani had already told me, but until I discovered TGS we never realized that Robyn was the girl Hunter, so I can't be sure. (don't take this too personally-sometimes I wonder what Gargoyles Danielle has been watching. When I first started to pump her about "Sanctuary", she told me Thailog had put a spell on Demona so that she would have amnesia during the day and she actually fell in love with Macbeth, only to remember him when she turned into a gargoyle after the wedding and pounce on him. ???? I think she may have just been trying to save my feelings or something, since at that time I thought McB and D were meant to be.)
In any case, we were too busy quibbling over who got Jason to really pay much attention to the scene (Danielle: Dude, he's so cute, I want him! Me: But you already called dibs on Xanatos! You can't have both! Dani (rolls eyes): Oh, fine, whatever. But you know he gets shot, right? Me: SO?)
Your the Greg Master. If gargess is a word, so is denially. :)
Okay, Brimstone Inc? DIERDRE (is that even French?) Greg, honey, can I just whole-heartedly thank you for having these names changed? I don't know, I guess it's because I'm so used to Nightstone and Dominique but both of the other one's just seem so- dry and corprate. Which I guess is the point, but it just didn't SUIT her (or Thailog, for that matter.) Plus I really love the name Dominique Destine. It's so brillant in it's irony- Demona always tries to dominate her destiny, but destiny just always seems to dominate HER.
Cut to Robyn. I remember this scene vividly, as it is was my first time seeing Demona in her human form. (Danielle: That's Demona. *camera angle moves* Me-pointing at Robyn-:The blonde one? *camera angle moves back* Danielle-pointing at DD-: No, you idiot, the redhead!)
Opps. Danielle and I both loved Robyn. Many a dull afternoon was spent making up stories about a forbidden corprate romance between she and Owen, given both of their stiff demeanors. I was crushed when I found out she wasn't really a mild-mannered assistant. I even thought for awhile that you picked the name Robyn after Puck's alias in "A MidSummer Night's Dream." It still works out pretty good, I think. (Did you ever notice the whole Robin Goodfellow thing?)
One line that I loved that you left out of your ramble was when Dominique was threatening Rutherford (is that his name? I'm not sure where I got that from, but I hear it referenced from time to time.) She dangles him by the neck (unless my memory is exaggerating) and yells at him for some screw up or other, glances over her shoulder at the setting sun and says, "You're lucky I treat my employees with dignity and respect."
This right before she throws him bodily from the room. I love it. Classic Demona. I was cracking up so hard I barely remember the transformation, just a ripped suit and her panting, "Do it yourself." Commercial.
Totally never thought they'd kill off Angie (um, I believe Dani might have mentioned something earlier about that whole "CPR- the gift that keeps on giving" line before I watched this, but I can't remember. If I hadn't had prior knowledge, I still don't think I would have thought her dead.)
I think this was one of the first 10 episodes I'd ever seen (surely one of the 1st 20), so I didn't completely understand what a big deal it was to see Goliath crave vengence like that. They attacked his daughter, and given what we normally see in cartoons it seemed like a natural course of action to seek retrubtion (spelling, yet again)
But of course, Gargoyles is NOT an ordinary cartoon. And in hindsight, oh boy- POWERFUL words, man. They had to be spoken. At some point, Goliath NEEDED to be confronted with the same emotional trails that corrupted Demona. So he could rise above them, and become a better garg for it.
Like Demmie goes on to say, they're really not that different, when it comes down to it.
Which kinda gives you both fear (for him) and hope (for her.)
P.s.: Saw "F for Facades" last night. Tell your brother kudos for me. It rocked! Hope the Weisman bloodline continues to thrive in writing and more. :)
As I assume you know, we stuck with Dominique and Nightstone. And, yep, I'm aware of the Robin Goodfellow name. But the name Rutherford means nothing to me.
And thanks, I'll pass the word on to Jon.
When will W.I.T.C.H. season 2 come on Russian Jetix, cause i dont have english jetix, toon dysney or family ABC. I only have Russian jetix configured too English and it only has W.I.T.C.H. season 1.
I have no idea. Sorry.
For starters, let me say thank you for introducing the world to Gargoyles; it's an incredable series.
Now for the question; do you think that in the later future you would want to create a live-action film for Gargoyles? In hollywood today, there are many tv shows that are revived to become incredible films; do you believe Gargoyles would be one of them?
I think it would be great. For more info on the history of the Live-Action Gargoyles Movie... CHECK THE ASK GREG ARCHIVES under "LIVE-ACTION MOVIE"!
Thanks for the ramble on "Hunter's Moon Part One", Greg. Here are a few comments on it.
I liked the opening flashback with Gillecomgain, filling in a little more about him - such as his very unpleasant father. And we see Gillecomgain vowing to wipe out the entire gargoyle race (over a few facial scars that a single gargoyle gave him - this is a definite case of "a life for an eye", so to speak).
One of the things that I like about "Hunter's Moon" is the feature that you mentioned - those deliberate hearkenings back to "Awakening". (And Season One in general as well - Elisa gets saddled with a new partner by Chavez and is initially less than thrilled about it, there are mentions of the Daily Tattler and the urban legend about alligators in the sewers, the robbery that Elisa and Jason break up is in the same area where Dracon's gang stole the particle beam accelerators from Xanatos at the start of "Deadly Force", etc.) I liked the hearkening back with the gargoyles and Elisa again rescuing the yuppies (and a few other familiar faces this time) from those three street thugs - and the rescuees being ungrateful as usual. (I also get a kick out of Margot saying "Great idea, Brendan. Ride the subway, meet interesting people." Well, they did get to meet a lot of interesting people, many of whom had wings.)
I didn't recognize Elisa until her blonde wig came off - and I'd already seen that wig in "Turf". I really need to be more observant.
One tidbit in Demona's interview with Robyn that I get a kick out of is that Robyn's references are from Edinburgh, Florence, and the Sorbonne - and the flashbacks of the three parts of this story are set in Scotland, Florence, and Paris.
I did get the brief visual joke of Broadway and Lexington looking accusingly at Brooklyn (and nice echo back to the incident with Vinnie's motorcycle).
One of my favorite details in Part One is the Hunters' robot falcon - pity that we didn't get to see it again.
I can no longer remember what my initial thoughts were about Jason when he showed up - or if I even connected him (or Robyn or Jon) with the Hunters in Part One. I did pick up on the way that the Canmores' aliases all began with a hard C, the same as their real surname. (Jumping ahead - that's why I suspected right away, when I first saw "The Journey", that Castaway was linked to the Canmores, the moment that I heard his name.)
One thing that I *definitely* remember was my response to Goliath's vow at the end of Part One to kill the Hunters. I was absolutely horrified at him - so much so that I was worrying far more about it than over whether Angela was going to live or not.
Now I'm looking forward to your rambles on Parts Two and Three....
That shock value at the end of the episode was exactly what we were going for. And a good example of how great an S&P executive Adrienne Bello was. No S&P exec I've worked with before or since would have let us use the word "kill".
Can you tell me how many new episodes have already shown on W.I.T.C.H, cause i haev only seen the first 4. And wanted to ask if any have come on.
They made 26 episodes for season one. And then I made 26 for season two. All 52 have aired (at least here in the U.S.).
I believe the song "Dance With The Gypsies" is played, uncredited, when
Johnny Depp and Juliette Binoche's characters are dancing with others
at a party at the river.
"Dances With The Gypsies" is performed by Stoney Larue or Bob Childers.
Can anyone confirm the song is used there?
Was that in "Protection" or "Silver Falcon"? I can't remember.
But first, a moment of glee. It's 'Gargoyles'! In a comic! By Greg! For real! Magnificent! Big, big, big thanks to all the people who made it happen.
I think I always kind of overlooked 'The Journey'. I always liked it, but it was always a bit of an odd duck, stapled onto the front of a season I didn't care for, a second ending after 'Hunter's Moon' which was an immensely satisfying conclusion. So now it's been many, many years since I saw the episode and although I can still rattle off most of the lines by heart, I'm still coming at it with something of a fresh perspective and, to some extent, seeing it as a creature in its own right rather than 'the last one before TGC' or 'the one after the Hunters'. A few things strike me.
Most obviously, 'Nightwatch' is really very dark indeed. Well, obviously. But there's no talk of journeys or Vinnie's redemption at this point, and read with David Hedgecock and Will Terrell's gloomy take on the city, it really does feel much more oppressive than the optimistic world Elisa introduced Goliath back in '94. It also puts the world tour in perspective a little for me, as seen against the long period where the show had been becoming much brighter and more optimistic than it had been before - the clan isn't alone! Goliath has a daughter! Heroes are awakening to their destiny! - the darker turn seems fitting and I'm interested to see how everything develops once the initial shock fades.
Right now in this issue there's a sense that the walls are coming in. No Faeries or robots or magic or many of the more fantastical elements of the show. No grand romantic statements from the leads, just affection in small ways - comforting each other. And the story says a lot about humans, and humans under fire. Fear, knee-jerk panic, anger, prejudice. It's very raw - especially since we don't have the balance offered by Vinnie's decision yet. It's also a little eerie to return to this story for the first time since some of the major terrorist attacks of the last few years: the story is, after all, in the wake of a major attack on a New York building, and I think the script captures that heady uncertainty of a long, dark night where the news is on loop and the world's turned upside down and everything doesn't seem quite so safe any more.
Despite what might have been a very choppy narrative, all the plots are beautifully intertwined: the newsreaders, the Quarrymen, the cops, the gargoyles, Xanatos and Elisa. Most of the supporting characters have only a couple of lines but each suggests a completely different take on "the gargoyles issue". The people investigating it, the people hiding the gargoyles, the people concerned for their families, the people hunting the gargoyles for vengeance, for pleasure, or worry, for a sense of social activism, out of a concern about science, the gargoyles wanting to keep a low profile, wanting to go about their business, and so on. Different characters, different viewpoints, different loyalties and agendas and levels of information - it's just incredibly sharp stuff. And the people who seemed to be comedy extras in past episodes are now active and outspoken and shaping events: in fact, thanks to the Nightwatch framing the gargoyles are presented as intruders into their life stories instead of the other way around as it's seemed in the past. It's intricate and marvelous.
The Hedgecock/Terrell Gargoylesverse feels a little murkier than we're used to. Part of this is the less distinct backgrounds in places, the more sketchy style; partly the colouring. It's a great interpretation of this script which fits the post-'Hunter's Moon' New York: a little stunned, a little on edge, a little depressed. But I can't help but think back to 'Awakening' and Elisa's comments on the beauty in the city. Although this episode is very bleak, I hope that at some stage when the shock of the gargoyles revelation dies down we'll get to see New York in a context that's a little less 'Gotham'.
But it's still lovely. The colours are moody and ominous, the art revels in the small scenes - I love Matt & Chavez and Elisa & Cagney; and the emotions of the characters in their normal conversations. The action seems to be very tightly framed with lots of close-ups, which gives the emotional stuff a lot of clout (which I love), though the fight scene felt perhaps a bit cramped in places and in the 'louder' scenes the characters seem slightly exaggerated in places.
All in all, I was very impressed by how much 'Nightwatch' got under my skin, even all these years after having seen 'The Journey'. While I always liked the episode, I would definitely rate this issue alongside my very favourites from the first two seasons for its sheer complexity and ambition and its sense of fear and confusion and hurt and a hundred emotions jumbled up.
- Adapting 'The Journey' works really well as a starting point. There's a lot going on in it and I wasn't sure it wouldn't become overwhelming to a new or casual fan of the sort I'm trying to hook on the comic. But I think most of the roles are pretty obvious (benefactor, cops, etc.) even if you're just looking with no pre-conceived ideas. A couple of the continuity references might be more of a stretch (I wonder what people who haven't seen 'Vendettas' will make of the banana cream pie!). But we only really see much of Goliath and Elisa at this point, and the social situation the gargoyles are being flung into is well-realised and a compelling entry point.
- The Art & Lois scene is new to me and it's very effective. It's funny because I saw the previews for this which ended with Goliath flying into a rage and although I was excited to read it, I had no preconceptions about what might follow. I just didn't really think about it, I wanted to wait and see it 'for real'. But somehow I found myself pleasantly surprised by Goliath's solution. It's not a new solution for him ('Deadly Force' and other episodes obviously spring to mind), but it's an effective one, a peaceful one, a dignified one, and it really gets to the nub of Goliath's character at a very early point. I like that even after feeling I've known the character for a decade, he can still pleasantly surprise me by, literally, his grace under fire.
- The monstrous Quarrymen-designed gargoyle amused me. Didn't the TGC version have an actual replica of Goliath or something? I always assumed Jon Canmore had it for some reason, or the Illuminati had provided it or something along those lines, but it seems more credible that the Quarrymen mock-up would just be a plain old scary monster. So now I'm guessing they used Goliath in the TGC version to save the cost of drawing up a new stone model? It also explains why the Quarrymen didn't recognise Goliath on the rooftop later (though Banquo ought to have, I'd have thought).
- Grigori, not Gregorino? Or is Vinnie just assuming an alias in case the Quarrymen are as unsavoury as he seems to fear even at this early stage? In any case, I like the name Grigori. It's got the in-joke, but it's not intrusive.
- Speaking of the Quarrymen, I always had trouble making out the line "no way you're fighting this hard if stone-face weren't the real thing..." in the cartoon. It sounded like "heart of stone" something. I think I worked it out eventually (or perhaps through Blaqthorne & Crimson Fury's transcript) but it's nice to see it in the text. And Banquo nearly said 'whore'. I guess this scene was one of the punch-to-the-face moments that was possible in S2 but which TGC got stopped from doing.
- The titles took a long while to grab me. I now quite like 'Nightwatch'; it seems to resonate on a lot of levels. 'Clan-Building' is kind of dull still. I admit, the traditionalist in me would kind of like it to be "The Journey" Part 1 & 2... 'just like 'real' episodes!'. Going to have to get used to the fact that it's a comic now. 'The Journey' was one of my favourite titles in the series, and although I realise it would probably not make much sense for #1 (since it's only really explained right at the end), I still really like it. I hope Part 2 is called 'The Journey'. Also, the nerd in me misses the nice, blue title font - it always gave me that 'new episode buzz' in the good old days, especially when a "part one" or something popped up after the first titles, and so it has a strong sentimental value. Okay, okay, I'll shut up about the titles now.
- Greg Guler's cover is ace. The colours are wonderful too. Deep and crisp and gorgeous.
- Also, on the colouring front, I especially liked the transition from day to sunset to night, with a darker twilight than the show sometimes had. There's a lot more red used in the comic as a whole than I remember of the cartoon and that gives a different flavour to scenes like the Quarrymen mob scene especially - maybe it makes it a little too on-the-nose, I'm not sure. I kind of liked my recollection of it with cool colours predominating -- the banality of evil or something like that.
- I felt the sweatdrop on Art was a bit on the cartoony side. I think 'Gargoyles' works best when it's kind of understated.
- I really love the page where Goliath flies over the head of Vinnie. A really memorable, iconic image. The original cartoon did this sort of thing a lot but with cuts and silhouettes and odd angles; the shape of an animation frame obviously isn't really useful for this sort of thing. This image is to me a nice encapsulation of... well, the series. Gargoyles trying to live their lives watching over humans who are blundering around uncertainly in the dark.
- One thing that I'm unsure about is the portrayal of Castaway, just in terms of artwork. He's very animated here - his hands-on-hips introduction, his psychotic expressions. This is where it's a case of me being used to one interpretation (the cartoon's) and suddenly questioning what I had assumed: how stable is Castaway? He's obviously not such a fruitcake that he puts off scared citizens from joining a violent organisation, but then again he set up the Quarrymen in the first place. Jon Canmore seemed to keep things close to his chest and then snapped. Does Castaway return to Canmore's very repressed attitude, or will his anger always be as close to the surface as some scenes here? My memories of the cartoon are quite different from the tone of the art here; the latter much angrier and more forceful and animated, the former slicker and more comforting. Incidentally, this is one of the best and most powerful speeches in the series. I just love the way the theme of community and 'aloneness' is threaded through the series.
- And one bare-faced quibble on the 'About Greg Weisman' page... it's 'Talespin', not 'Tail Spin'! Grr! :)
I just hope that by the time this post reaches the front of the queue the comic is a runaway success! Keep up the great work. :)
OMG, did I write "Tail Spin"? Hold on... Yep, it's in the comic. Let me check what I sent to SLG... DARN!! Yes, this is MY fault. <grrrrr>
Anyway, Ed, thanks for (otherwise) making me sound really good!
Finally got my copy of Gargoyles #1 (I'd ordered from Amazon.com, and it took them longer to get a copy to send me than I'd expected) in the mail today. I thought that I'd give you my thoughts on it.
While most of the material was familiar to me from "The Journey" (of course, it's been nine years since I last saw it - I never taped any of the Goliath Chronicles), there were some new things that I liked in it, such as Matt's meeting with Chavez and Goliath's encounter with Art. (The latter gave us another one of those rare moments when Goliath displays a sense of humor, when he lets Art keep his gun - now twisted into a spiral shape.) And, on the smaller level, Vinnie's remarks during Castaway's Quarrymen recruitment speech (I was particularly amused by his "Well, I don't got kids" line).
I'll probably be saying this again when/if you do a ramble on "The Journey", but I get a big kick out of Castaway's speech and all the ironies in it. First, he talks about how his audience is struggling with such problems as "violence, racism, injustice..." - while signing them up for an organization that typifies all three. Then he asks them "Are you afraid these creatures will attack while you sleep?... Are you afraid they will steal your children away?" When reading those lines, I find myself remembering two things: first, gargoyles clearly fear also that humans will attack them in their stone sleep (and they have even better reason for that fear - a sleeping human has some possibility of waking up in time to save himself or herself, but a sleeping gargoyle is doomed unless the would-be gargoyle-killer made the mistake of attempting to smash him or her at sunset), and second, in "The Reckoning", Demona views Princess Katharine and the Magus taking the gargoyle eggs away to Avalon as "steal[ing] our young". And finally, Castaway constantly uses the word "alone" in his speech - when I remember where I last heard that word in "Gargoyles" in a significant moment, it's definitely chilling. Kudos to you for writing that part.
I'm assuming, also, that you've got more liberal S&P on the comic than you did on television, in light of what Banquo called Elisa (no wonder she interrupts him with a punch and "shut up"!).
I'm looking forward to #2, and hope that the comic has a long run.
I do (so far) seem to have slightly more liberal S&P than Goliath Chronicles had from ABC and perhaps even than what we had on the first two years.
Thanks for rambling again (at the time of this post)! Always enjoyable.
No Gathering 2006 report I'm afraid. I was stuck back East starting a new job (well, returning to an old job) and helping to pump water out from my home's flooded basement (my understanding is that L.A. doesn't have to worry about getting 14 inches of rain in three days - we here in the Mid-Atlantic do).
Fun stuff, let me tell you.
However, I'm glad y'all had a good time and I'm pretty darn sure I'll be able to make '07 (though by the time you read this, we'll have probably known the outcome of this prediction for some time).
Anyway, rambling aside, I do have something of potential value to offer - my personal review of the comic, which after weeks of hunting for (all places in my area which ordered it sold out of no fewer than two orders, and the place I asked to order it from, um, forgot to and then, in a CYA move, insisted that the comic was not coming out in June) and eventually waiting for two weeks after ordering direct from SLG, "Gargoyles #1" is in my hands.
On the whole, I like it. I think you did a good job of adapting what we saw on screen to the pages and providing a way for new fans to get acquainted with what's going on. Of course, what's fun for me is seeing in print what I had the honor of acting out as ART back in Montreal during Radio Play, but I digress. The story's well-paced and moves along nicely, but I'm going to hold back on really looking at the writing aspect until *very* new material starts coming out. I have THE JOURNEY so internalized that I don't think I can be objective in a review of it.
As for the art, I think it's clear that David is still working with getting the models down, but some panels particularly demonstrated that he has the ability to nail it down. He seems to be more comfortable with up-close work than whole characters or multiple characters, but it's clear that he has the potential to pull it off. Right now, consistency is the major issue I have - some panels are great, others not so. I don't think it's off-putting by most measures, though I suspect those with a keener eye for art would be able to find more to take issue with. However, I'm going to remain optimistic that the art will improve with each issue.
I like the comic, I'm glad it's out, but again I'll wait until we're really in "uncharted" territory before I roll out deeper reviews (and might even, for once, have questions to ask).
And... that's all. Take care and I'll hopefully see you in '07 (or '08 if you get this closer in that neighborhood). :)
P.S.: Oh, in answer to your question on my '04 journal, "How did Leo get home?" He stayed in Montreal another day or two and flew out from there.
Now I'm done.
I'm caught up enough here at ASK GREG that I still don't know if you will make it to '07. Planning to come?
Posts: 2 35. Re: W.i.t.c.h. in the U.S.A. | 06/20/2006 7:32am
A hint I would love to give most corporations who are interested in markets by gender on the TV: Despite it being an action based series, with fighting and good verses evil, if it has female main characters, heroes, ect. It has a female audience. Period. There are girls out there who enjoy action, adventure, and seeing their heroines focusing their attention beyond cosmetics and boys. It is extremely biased to assume that all females love to see cartoons on the newest hair accessory. More over, it's biased to assume that only males enjoy action cartoons.
They can keep W.I.T.C.H. as it is, it doesn't need a "makeover" to appeal more to females for merchandising, nor does it need its more female relationship aspects toned down to keep it a male focused show. They tried to tone down the female aspects in Card Captor Sakura on Warner Brothers and look what happened.
Fans would appreciate it if the companies, who are broadcasting the cartoon/animation, would not mess with the original version more then absolutely necessary, and means of marketing are not such reasons.
Understandably this isn't marketed on the main stream Disney because it doesn't follow the same kind of animation produced for the main stream. Its more anime like, and thus gets anime status on a circuit that doesn't show random episodes, but the order of the episodes. Thus Jetix. Cartoon network did something similar with Toonami and the new Maguzi. The problem is they focus on action, and thus assume only male base audiences. The reason why they seem action like is they actually follow a somewhat coherent story, unlike other such shows, like Jake Long and Lilo and Stich, which although they have a story line and an order of episodes, they don't need to be played one right after the other to make sense, they work beautifully as individual episodes. As such they are easier to present to America as very few people have the dedication to actually track a series to find the next newest episode to continue the plot.
The only problem the Fundamentalists running America would have with this show is A: its name (Witches have been their enemies for ages. B: the Elemental basis on power (too earthy and pagan like for them) C: where that power comes from, they weren't exactly born with it, it comes with age, and was not granted to them by a single deistic power. Thus the show must be teaching immoral lessons on power and encouraging some kind of nature worship. In addition there is a female power focus. All the main high power characters in this show are female. The guardians, their mentor, the principal, while the King was bad, the Queen is good ect. A few exceptions, the rebel leader and the Oracle are both male, but you get the gist. Despite all this however they really shouldn't have much of a problem with the show. It's not like the fundamentalists to attack anything unless it shows a considerable threat to their cause (IE Harry Potter).
For fear of rambling I shall stop now. But keep WITCH on.
It's not up to me. You know that, right?
I'll try to keep this short, as I kinda already gave my 2 cents yesterday.
I didn't catch the Star Trek reference at the time, b/c I hadn't heard of that episode. Now that I've seen clips of it, I realize it was a brillant (for want of a better term) spinoff. Although I think over all the Angie-Desie-Broad-Cold kiss was better than Kirk and Uhura (spelling, sorry- that chick who voiced Diane! That'll work!)'s. I mean, I haven't seen the whole Star Trek episode, so I don't know what the alien's relationship was like, but those 2 were so freakin SHAKY. They looked like they were having a seizure out of passion, or something.
(I am sorry if this offends any Treky's out there. Like I said, I haven't seen anything but a 5 minute clip of the kiss. I'm much more of a Next Generation gal, anyway. Two words: MARINA SIRTIS. Plus it's really fun to see "Xanatos" and "Demona" flirting.)
I'm assuming you left Ms. S out of the TNG voice credits in your ramble cuz she wasn't in the episode. I'm cool with that, and I realize that if you gave credit to all the Star Trek voices, we would be here all day.
So yeah. I'm not really a big Cold trio fan (although I am a big fan of Coldstone's icecream-sorry, couldn't resist! I think of Micheal Dorn whenever I go in that creamery now!), but this episode was okay. And I was really excited that I finally got to see Angela (even if she WASN'T white with red hair like I always imagined. Don't ask me WHY.)
Oh and one little confession: Before I could remember what her name was, I used to call Coldfire "Starfish Face." I sincerely apologize for this crudeness. I never really got a good enough look at her, and I thought her horns kinda made her look like she had a starfish on her head. I really hope the animators and fellow fans forgive me for this, as when I got a better view of her in "City of Stone" and "Legion", I realized she was actually quite pretty.
OK, so that's my confession for the day (again, REALLY REALLY sorry!) Now I better go before some random Treky or Desdemona fan gets some vitual tar and feathers for me!
P.S.: Was it ever confusing to have both a Demona AND a Desdemona? I realize that other than in the first "City of Stone" they never had an episode together (CF wasn't in "Reawakening, was she?) but it's still seems like kind of a nusiance to me.
P.P.S: Have i mentioned I'M SORRY?!
The episode with the famous Kirk-Uhura kiss was not the episode I was referring to as inspiration. I'm talking about an episode guest starring Diana Muldaur.
Desdemona was never a name used in dialogue.
Hi! Before I ask my question, I just want to ask what the chances of a fourth season are. But thats not my question. If there were to be a fourth season, when and where would it take place? WOuld it take place right after the last episode, or many years into the future? Also, instead of making a fourth season, would Disney ever redo the whole series? Thank you so very much! :)
Thre are no current plans for a fourth (or even a real third) season of the series on television, but you can look to the comics to continue the series, picking up right where Hunter's Moon left off.
"4. Would Disney ever consider selling the rights to Gargoyles?
No. They won't even let go of Clarabelle Cow. They don't want to take the risk that someone else could make a mint on their property and make them look bad."
"Clarabelle Cow" is actually a bad example, I think. She's making regular appearance in Non-US Mickey Mouse stories, acting as best female friend to Minnie Mouse.
You're talking LICENSING, not selling the rights. Clarabelle acting as Minnie's best friend does not mean they've sold the rights... unless you think they've SOLD THE RIGHTS to Minnie Mouse. (And just to be clear, they HAVE NOT.)
These are two very different financial concepts.
Non-US Mickey, Minnie or Clarabelle stories are under a licensing agreement. But Disney retains the rights.
It's the difference between leasing a house and selling one.
We wanted that giant pocket watch (or whatever) that Puck pulls out at the end to be a MICKEY MOUSE WATCH... but Disney would just not allow it. They were afraid it would come off as product placement in a kid's show or something.>>
...Because Puck is a mickey Mouse kinda guy???
Because it was more specific, and thus funnier. Not to mention the in-jokiness of it.
I enjoyed your ramble on "Possession." This episode holds a special place for me as one of the very first I saw. In your "pre-ramble" you mention the complexity of this one - imagine the confusion to someone unfamiliar with the characters! But this complexity is part of what drew me to the series and why I still enjoy it so much. I still catch new things when I watch this episode.
I did, however, immediately notice the "Bewitched" reference as well as the parallels to the Star Trek body-switching episode (which helped me better understand what was going on, especially on repeat viewings). I'd wondered if the inspiration for the switching triangle came from Trek; thanks for the clarification! (Incidentally, that Trek episode was called "Return to Tomorrow." I much prefer "Possession" - it's a much better description of the action, and made me think of that old line "possession is nine-tenths of the law" when the characters were tempted to keep their new bodies).
I also prefer the "Gargoyles" resolution to the dilemma of where to put the newly-transferred personalities. In Trek they go off into oblivion, having decided our species isn't ready for them yet. But "Possession" offers the prospect of future stories with these characters.
I enjoyed seeing Alex's winged plushie and the expressions on Broadway's and Angela's faces when Othello and Desdemona leave them mid-embrace.
Other one liners I like are from Michael Dorn (Puck-as-Coldstone): "I trust you have no more questions" and "Wouldn't you like to know."
Thanks for the ramble.
We were heavily inspired by that particular Star Trek episode, but I do hope that we made it our own, so to speak. Organic to our series. And not slavish to the inspiration.
Here's my Gathering 2006 Report! Which, since it weighs in at almost nine thousand words, I'm submitting via link: http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/gathering_06_text.html
Otherwise, Ask Greg might pop like a balloon and I'd hate to be responsible for that! But if you really want me to, just say so!
I want you to post it here!
(Next time we open the posting function.)
Thanks for your "Possession" ramble, Greg. (Just think - all that you've got left is "Hunter's Moon" and you're done with Season Two!) A few comments.
That opening with Xanatos hunting Coldstone down in the Himalayas makes more sense to me now that I know about that Marvel Comic story that you were going to write but never got to do.
The first time that I saw the episode, I initially thought that what Xanatos and Owen were trying to do (and needed more than technology to do) was repairing Coldstone after the damage done in the recent battle, but afterwards I understood that their goal was transferring Desdemona and Iago to Coldfire and Coldsteel. (And I agree that it would be like Xanatos to say "Chin up" to Coldstone while his head is disconnected from the rest of him.)
I like Alex's winged teddy bear, too.
I agree that Coldfire is a much better name than Goldfire; it certainly fits the pattern with Coldstone and Coldsteel in the way that Goldfire wouldn't. (It even makes me wonder how "Goldfire" was even a candidate to begin with.)
Another thing that I picked up on in later viewings was the consequences of Brooklyn's "Me three - except that you don't need three" line.
One of the big elements for me in the episode is how the voice actors demonstrate their versatility (as you pointed out); instead of taking the customary approach in cartoons of "when people switch minds, they also switch voice actors", we here got to hear, say, Bill Faggerbakke and Brigitte Bako altering their delivery to sound more like Michael Dorn and C. C. Pounder. And it was a very admirable performance.
One of my favorite bits: Puck-as-Coldstone saying, "Naughty, naughty, sneaking up like that on Uncle Coldstone". (As much from how Dorn delivered it as from the actual words.)
And I think that we can all agree that this is just the way that Puck *would* educate Alex.
Again, thanks for the ramble.
I can never praise our voice cast (and voice director) Jamie Thomason enough. We were constantly presenting them with new challenges, and they ALWAYS rose to the occassion.
Ah, good ol' Possession. Oi, what a headache THAT was. Still, there's a little special place in my garg-lovin heart for this episode, as it was the first I ever saw with Angela in it (I started watching Gargoyles in summer 2004. Techincally the first WHOLE episode I ever saw was "Outfoxed", although I remember seeing the scene in "Long Way till Morning" where Hutson renounces his leadership to Goliath while channel surfing some years previous. "Outfoxed" was on at night, while about 2 weeks later "Posession" was on ABC Family on Saturday morning, to explain the long episode gap.)
Anyway. I was scratching my head a bit while watching this episode, but I thought over all the sentiment was sweet. And, in hindsight, the whole Brook/Iago thing was a good metaphor for Brooklyn's jealousy of Broadway and Angela. Nicely done.
Of course, it's always wonderful to see the Puck in action ;) I wish we could have seen more of that little guy in the series. Particularly along side Demona (amazingly, I'm not just saying this as an excuse have more Demona eps!) I mean, those two TOTALLY stole the show in "The Mirror." Yes, yes, the sexual tension between E and G was all very lovely but COME ON! That's like EVERYBODY's favorite episode (which I didn't get to ramble on, so sorry I'm losing focus on "possession.")
ANYWAY (pardon my short attention span), I don't really remember this episode too well since I only saw it once 2 years ago and I was too busy trying to figure out what the heck was going on and who was in who's body to pick up on the minor details (alright, plus I was secretly hoping Demona would show up at some random moment, that way if I didn't understand anything at least I'd get to see her. I didn't know about "The Reckoning" at that point. Sue me!) I do remember liking Xanatos' "wiggle your nose" line, which I still think is funny. I had heard from Danielle, my gargoyle mentor who got me into the show in the first place, about Puck but like Angie I don't think I had seen him prior to this episode.
Okay, to sum up, great episode, great series, created by a great guy named Greg (isn't iliteration fun? Particularly when it's spelled incorrectly?) and I'm hoping for a GREAT comeback! SPREAD THE WORD ( to quote X in "Reawakening", "I've ALWAYS wanted to say that.")
Thanks. Possession was fun to work on, juggling all the misdirection.
I read and enjoyed your "pre-ramble" for "Possession". One tidbit that I especially liked was the very appropriate concept of Xanatos and Fox's specific destination when they went out that evening being a performance of Verdi's "Otello". Pity that it wasn't mentioned in the actual television episode.
Yeah, why wasn't it mentioned? Fell away, I guess.
hey greg i know this is the gargoylles site but i wandered if i could ask a question about WITCH i love y role as caleb it was fantastic but are u going to continue working in season3 REALLY HOPE SO
Thanks. I really loved doing WITCH, but the PTB seem to have decided there will be no Season Three.
Is WITCH season 2 done already? and will there be a third season? When?
WITCH Season Two is done and has aired. As far as I know there are sadly no plans for a Season Three.
I spoke to you briefly after the Iron Artist competition at CONvergence and also presented the artwork of my roommate and friend who was too shy to present it herself.
I just wanted to send you a gentle reminder to please post Blather somewhere. She's going to finish her drawing and she wants to read Blather once more so she can fully embrace it.
We'll scan the finished work and email it to you when she's done if you like.
Blather is posted HERE at ASK GREG. Just check the Archives under RAMBLINGS.
Greeting to you Mr' Wiseman,
I have been a major Gargoyles fan since the day it first aired and have spent much time in gargoyle chat rooms and on this site and others.
Now for my question, Recently I heared that there was talk of making another season picking up where season two left off and using your writing. Please is there any truth to this rummor? I was not happy with the changes that Disney made to gargoyles in third season and would love to see what you had written. Please could you let me know?
The "third season" is currently in progress as comic books published by SLG. See the link on the sidebar or check out www.creaturecomics.com for more information.
The first two issues are out and (at least at my local store GOLDEN APPLE on Melrose Blvd in L.A.) still available. Issue #3 is coming out next month. We should be consistently bi-monthly after that.
Since yesterday I'm the proud owner of the first issue of the new Gargoyles comic (took some time to get it oversea).
I admit that the drawing style will take some getting used to, but after the tenth re-read it doesn't look as weird anymore.
Otherwise I adore the comic and the nicely thought out transitions, from the Quarrymen to Goliath and Elisa and back again, etc. The short recap was a very nice touch, I especially like the panel with Elisa, Angela and Goliath. Another favourite panel of mine is Cagney so sneakily waiting to pounce on his food.
And then the end of the comic Goliath shot and the laconic commentary by our favourite news anchor "Welcome Back". Welcome back indeed.
I'm eagerly awaiting the second issue, but the third even more. New things to read from the Gargoyles, I'm very happy and hope there'll be many more issues.
I really can't wait for you guys to see issue #3. And I REALLY can't wait for you to see issue #7. I think it'll blow your collective mind.
Just a few quick observations on the comic...
Loved the idea of having the Hunter icon on Castaway's suit (I'm pretty sure this detail wasn't in "The Journey"). For me, this gave Castaway's scene with Vinnie a whole new level. He looks at Vinnie as a younger version of himself--unsure about the gargoyles, maybe even slightly sympathetic. But he's sure that Vinnie, like himself, will "see the necessity" for violence soon enough.
Hedgecock's art has room for improvement (some off-model shots of Elisa--although in some of the closeups she's beautiful), but it draws me into the story much more than the mediocre animation on "The Journey." He gives the characters real personality, very "animated." And hats off to the colorist...great, moody atmosphere.
You've said that no animated show could get away with your "into-the-camera punches" these days...so in some ways, it's nice to be a comic book, eh? And Elisa gets the honor of delivering the first one. Good for her!
And that wing wound! Ouch. I like that you're upping the violence and language slightly without going overboard. All in all, a great effort. I'll be buying a few copies for friends. Good to have you back!
Good to be back. I think the clawmarks were on Castaway in the Journey, but they may have been too subtle. I'll have to watch it again.
Woke up late, but there was nothing that morning I was in a rush to get to. Trip to the food court and back, I checked out to see if there were any bids on the art and took a walk through of the auction items. I did a little sketching for BrooklynX and greeted a few guest as they came and went.
Got to talking to Nikki about next year and she was more than happy to show off the brochures she had brought. She definitely had done a good job all weekend pimping Pigeon Forge to anyone who was interested. I certainly am excited to head that way next year.
The Radio play was the Mirror and it was great to have Keith David at the helm. He's as much fun to watch as he is to listen to. Crispin's Scottish I think had a bit too much of a pirate twist to it, but made the girls swoon and everyone else laugh.
Dinner was Hotdog on a stick because I love corndogs and never get to have them anymore. Though as I was putting mustard on my plate I had a little girl call me weird for putting a little mustard on my French fries as well…. Me, weird?… nah.
While we waited for Blue Mug we were hanging out in Aaron and Mara's room again and Nikki decided to put on an anime. It was a really bad hentai with all the bad things you can imagine including no story plot. Was funny though.
We knew getting to the consuite early was important, but it was a lot smaller than I imagined. Yes we were loud, that many people it's impossible not to be. But we had fun while it lasted. Greg's a robot, Thom says Lex is still horny, Crispin and Thom were bad, and Keith sang and told stories. Eventually we got kicked out, but not in a graceful way. This is where the hotel staff really balked. We have had other hotels be very accommodating, why, because we are paying guest. But this staff, more than just one was very rude. Should have given them the finger.
After they told us we couldn't go to the convention rooms or hang out in the Foyer a small group went to the bar, I got a Jack and Coke. It was mostly just small talk going about. After it closed we hung outside for a bit but eventually, once again, we were kicked out of that as well. This time by some wedding rehearsal guest. Who does wedding rehearsal at 1am, honestly?
After getting told to leave that many times bed was in order.
Being that it was now Sunday several of the food court establishments were not open yet when we got up to eat, but the hot sandwich place was, was really good too.
I caught the tail end of the comic panel and stuck around to take pictures. I said hello to Hedgecock, whether you like his art or not, I thought it was important to at least show him some respect.
I did attend the Voice actors panel, because I love to hear their stories and what people will ask. I have no idea why I decided to stand in the corner, not like I was on security detail, but it did give me a good view of the room, sorry if it made anyone uncomfortable.
Morgan Sheppard was a lot of fun to hear, and hearing all their stories on their favorite and least favorite moments in the biz was very interesting. Thom was late, he went for food. I ragged him a bit, but Thom is great like that, you can play with him like just another guest.
Once again during the signing I hung back and took pictures. GregX and I chatted a bit about how the con was going and general chit chat. We had mentioned how neither of us had seen Steve Blum yet when he walked up. Got to shake his hand and say hello but had to usher him to the W.I.T.C.H. panel that had already started.
I had a few things that Spacie wanted signed and she was in her own panel, a Hellsing DVD for Crispin to sign and a Big O poster for Steve Blum. The signing was running long with so many guest in a little room I had to point it out to Greg Weisman.
Aaron, Gside, and I went up to the con suite to try and see the other music videos that were not shown, but there was no VCR to play them on, that was rather disappointing, but I did snag a few pieces of pizza.
Just for fun I then dropped in on the Drawing Erotica panel. Mara and Kyt lead this one well. Not sure if anyone learned anything but was a lot of fun and I think everyone else would agree.
Spacie dressed nice for Banquet and I'll have to admit after seeing Tony in his sharp suit, I felt like a slob. Nevertheless the food was good and we had several good conversations with Patrick Archibald about direct to DVDs, story boards, and his current projects.
After a second helping and listening to the guest and a few questions we readied for Masquerade. To be honest I thought me as Brode just didn't work. At least as Dracon I had a fairly similar body type. Brode is more bulky, but I did my best effort at a cheap bastardized eastern Euro/Russian accent. (I improved so lines on walk out and had to do it again because the music was too loud.) I plan to have a better costume next year. And I'm not afraid to agree that Tony has no shame, he would probably say so. There were not many costumes, but the ones there were, were great.
Afterwards I took pics and looked forward to continuing the Blue mug we were kicked out of the night before. It was a more intimate setting this time, more space and less people, plus Michael Reeves joined us. I was honored and pleased to hear that Greg W not only liked this one particular piece of my art that he loved the concept of a bearded Thailog that Greg X and I came up with just in random conversations. Eventually we reached a good stopping point and crashed.
Got up as early as my fatigue would let me. Cons burn you out. Anyhow, I wanted to make Greg's Time travel panel and I only missed the first few minutes. Quantum physics can give you a headache, but is fun nevertheless.
I then made it to my only other panel, which I felt really under qualified for, Digital Rendering. I do well, but I'm the first to admit I'm still just starting, especially when compared to people like Steph, Karine, and Kyt, all three who are professional artist. Anyhow, the panel was a blast, Steph is great to watch in action, very energetic. She has a photoshop brush named WEEE!!!
Closing Ceremonies was very quick, almost too quick, but it was over. It was a good con and assuming nothing goes horribly wrong we'll be at the next one.
Dinner was in the Food court again and the hang out was Aaron and Mara's room. We had lots of visitors though. Leo stopped by, Allaine said goodbye, was nice to talk to him more this year.
WE had to crash a little early, and loaded the van that night so as to just get up and run in the morning. We had a long way to go.
Had a slight irritation with the desk clerk at check out. She didn't even ask if we were splitting the room payment and just put the WHOLE THING on my card. Then she didn't know how to refund it. That killed a half hour. Very annoying.
I took first leg and got us all the way to El Paso. That was about 12 hours of driving, but add two hours for time zones. We could have stopped but after eating at a Chili's we felt pretty refreshed and pressed on all the way to San Antonio. Which was fine, saved money. We got in SA at about 6 in the morning and just crashed.
Slept a lot, hung out in San Antonio and read my comic again and most of the Anthology. We left the next day for Houston and thus returned to normal working life
Ending Gathering 2006.
See you in Tennessee!
I'll be there!!!!
Here we go...
I was able to get Tuesday off work but Spacie had to work, so that was one thing right there that slowed things down. Much like Vegas the previous year we had reserved a rental van to take us to the con and back. Weekly rates are very good and split among 5 or more people makes for very affordable travel, especially with drivers who rotate and don't need major stops.
We finally left Houston just before 7 and made it to San Antonio around 10... of course getting stopped for speeding didn't help. No biggy, just got a warning. Dinner was MacDonalds.
We retrieved the van around noon, a Chrysler Town & Country that I didn't think was as nice as the Dodge we had last year, but small details. Brunch was sandwiches and we ate on the road.
This was different for me because in the past I have been the iron driver that does most of the wheel time. Aaron did more than his fair share, taking us from San Antonio to El Paso, about 600 miles and I took us to Tucson, about eight hundred and sixty some odd miles all together for the first day. We had purposely planned to stop in Tucson for the night even though it was an extra expense because we didn't want to get to the hotel too early. It was a Days Inn, was not too shabby. Aaron once again took the wheel and took us all the way to Valencia, about an 8 hour drive.
The scenery was not very interesting except the Wind Farms, I found those interesting. Mostly just a lot of dirt and some mountains. We did stop at the Patton museum and I got some pictures. Was also our first taste of California fuel prices. Oooouch. Anyhow, The afternoon traffic starts even as far as 50 miles outside LA proper and that slowed us down. I started to get worried that we had missed our exit and would have to take I-10 all the way to I-5. Thankfully no. We bypassed most of the bad stuff and being of the Bill and Ted generation made fun of the signs that said San Dimas, no we didn't find a Circle K there.
I was surprised to find that Valencia was quite a ways from down town Los Angeles, but given how spread out things are I suppose that is to be expected. Greg Weisman described Valencia as a "Mall town." Good word choice, the place, at least around the hotel was all shops and restaurants. In fact as we were sitting at the light to turn into the parking area, a fairly large group of garg fans were on their way to the BJ's.
We parked, checked in and went across the street to find the crowd. Though it took a while to sit, it was not bad, and the food was good. I split a pizza with Silver and Spacie. Silver is always fun to talk to.
The rest of the evening consisted of getting the bags into the room and hanging out till we got sleepy.
My first objective was food followed by finding reg. And where the art show was setting up. We found it worth the short walk to always head to the food court because the price was better and the food was not bad, plus a bit of variety. After breakfast I picked up my art and was pleased that Cindy (Eden) loved the picture of her gargoyle and Spacie's garg so much that she bought it. I was proud of that piece. I was a little embarrassed to see that I brought more adult art than anyone.
The first panel I was on was Sketching 101. Though more than qualified to be up front I still felt a little small being up there with talents such as Kyt, Karine, Steph, and Mara. But I added where needed and let them lead. I hope people enjoyed our antics as well as learned something.
I had thought I was on other panels as well, but they must have been canceled or moved since my only other one was on Monday. I enjoyed Crispin's voice panel, it was interesting to see even a bit of how dubbing is done and the software he had was very cool. Afterwards I did audition, but didn't do was well as I had in the past, that and it being a small cast meant I got bumped. Oh well, maybe next time.
Spent an hour in the dealer's room at the Anthology signing plus I picked up a copy of the comic. The nearest comic shop here is about 20 some odd miles away.
Opening ceremonies took a bit different turn this year with the music videos being shown. I always miss the videos because they are usually in the con suite and I rarely make it up there. All the videos were good, I particularly liked the one that used the song Hemorrhage(In my Hands) by Fuel. I always enjoy annual count the first timers show of hands, quite a few this time around, plus I heard there were lots of walk ins all weekend. I always enjoy the Bad Guys pitch, because there is no where else you can see it and only once a year.
Food was at the food court again, but it was good and when we got back we caught the tail end of the MiSTings. We end back in Aaron and Mara's room and had great conversations with Marty about the comic, the business, the economics of it, politics, hell lots of stuff. It was great to get a chance to really talk to him and thank him for his persistence in bringing the comic to life.
Bed was at about 1am.
I never just get warnings. How do you manage that?
In your ramble about the episode "The Mirror", you said you couldn't resist turning Bronx into a dog.
In response to why Thailog never cloned Bronx in "The Reckoning", you said it was because Bronx never guarded Demona like the other Gargoyles did.
Why is it that you made sure Bronx was included in the plot twist de jour of "The Mirror", but denied him similar inclusion in "The Reckoning", when it seems like it would have been relatively easy to just write him into having guard duty with one of the other Gargoyles. Did "cloning the dog" just seem like something too silly for Thailog and Demona to do?
Not too silly, but the episode was pretty crowded already, and it felt like cloning Bronx would require explanation... screentime we just didn't have.
I just read your ramble on "The Reckoning," which is one of my favorite episodes, and just wanted to contribute my two cents. Ever since "Sanctuary," I had been wondering what would happen when Demona and Angela met again, and I'm happy to say that this episode did not disappoint. For an episode with a very large supporting cast (that also introduced several new characters to boot), it carried itself amazingly well.
It flowed wonderfully, and as you pointed out, contained a lot of memorable lines. Jim Belushi is not my favorite actor, but I loved him as the voice of Fang. I think Fang just might be one of his best roles. His delivery of the one-liners was superb.
If I had to pick a favorite visual moment, it would have to be the shot of Demona, Thailog, and the clones right before the end of the second act. It was like looking at a negative photographic image of Goliath's clan. Very chilling.
A few things I found interesting: Thailog and Sevarius in the same room together. I suppose it's not too surprising, since mentally, Thailog was programmed with Xanatos's slant on life. Xanatos kept the gargoyles alive because he thought they'd be useful (or I'm just going by what he told Goliath at the end of "City of Stone"). Similarly, I'm wondering if that was Thailog's line of thinking when Sevarius was hired to engineer the clones: the doctor does come in handy.
Also, concerning the relationship between Demona and Angela: I think that Demona does love Angela. But I find it interesting that she told Goliath to save their daughter instead of doing it herself. The thing she seemed more solidly focused on was punishing Thailog, because Thailog had just delivered a double whammy by not only ending their relationship, but also splicing her DNA with the human she seems to hate most. It almost looks like Demona loves revenge more than Angela. I look forward to seeing what happens between them in the comic. Your comments on those three small words were very intriguing.
All in all, a very well-done episode that exceeded my expectations. I will be posting comments on the new comic at a later date, but for now, let me just say thanks, and best of luck with your future endeavors.
Jim is also an extremely nice guy and really fun to work with. And I tend to agree with you. Fang may have been one of his best cast roles ever.
The Reckoning. Ah, yes. Great episode, one of my favorites. It was on TV the other morning. Unfortunately, we have satelite and it was storming out when it was on. *grumbles*
There were some great lines present here:
"My clan can beat your clan any day of the week."
"Some of my best friends are half-gargoyle, half-human babes with bad attitudes!"
"It's all over, you... you forgery!"
"Oh, but it's a very clever tin can."
"That doesn't sound like a subway car."
All classics. :-)
When I was younger, I used to stubbornly think that little moment between Brooklyn and Angela meant more then it did. Of course, I know otherwise now.
I loved Thailog's deviousness in this episode. Throwing Delilah in Demona's face, and Demona's reaction. I actually felt bad for Demona for a change. And, of course, I was blown away by her change in mannerisms ("Goliath, save our daughter!") when she actually helped save her former clan. I'd never have seen that coming. Especially after Angela's "I hate you." You always know how to surprise me, Greg.
I was never the biggest fan of Talon, though I never really hated him either. But he really started to come into his own when fighting Fang. Nice. Same for Angela vs. Delilah.
I always had trouble swallowing that the clan believed Demona dead even AFTER they already knew she was immortal, but that's a minor point.
9.5 out of 10 for one of my favorite episodes.
The comic was (is) a great read, also. A lot of people have commented on the art, but it doesn't bother me any. I'm not an art critic by any means, but still. Thanks for the 2 added scenes too. I'm looking forward to issue #2 and beyond. May the comic go on for years. :)
Your mouth to God's ear, my friend.
Hi Greg! It's a shame, I know, but due to the unrealistic time Toon Disney has Gargoyles on (not that I'm complaining- i'm just glad it's still on @ all!) I have never actually SEEN the Reckoning. But i've read enough reviews and rambles and pumped my friend who HAS seen it that I feel confident enough to write a TINY little ramble.
I love Fang's lines in this one, and I would just personally like to thank whatever wonderful censor let "Kinky" slip. Cuz let's face it- she is. And I know he's kidding, but I for one would really like to meet his other friends who r 1/2 human 1/2 gargoyle babes. (hey-is this a hint at Delilah???) I'm sure Brooklyn would too :)
I really like the way you "killed off" Demona and Thailog. I'm not sure if you meant it to include this, but I see a lot of symbolism in it. Ah, the rollercoaster that is love, the ups and downs and the telling-her-to-marry-another-guy-for-his-money-ok-now-i'm-fed-up-with-you-now-meet-your-replacents, all ending in a big, beautiful fireball that is a breakup.
Okay. So I'm crazy. But this IS called a RAMBLE right? So it must be okay to get a LITTLE nuts. Besides, like I said, I haven't actually SEEN the episode. Until i saw some pics the other day, I thought they were fighting on top of A MOVING CAR, which is a lot better than wrestling on a track.
But still. I like my theory, and stand by it. I believe Greg has said many times that Thailog is modeled after the "Bastard." And now, he is a bastard in EVERY use of the word. >:) If God forbid my boyfriend ever cheats on me, I know what morbid fantasy I'm going to have first (only of course, he's TIED to the burning rollercoaster, and I'm pointing and laughing from a safe distance away. Am i being 2 morbid? Sorry)
Anyway,I really wish we could see a rematch....with Demona winning and then as soon as he's gone she starts crying. B/c she really thought she loved him.
Or better yet, get some info on who her NEW lovers are (Greg? C'mon, Greg, I know u hear me. PLEASE? Like maybe on Valentine's Day or your anniversary or whichever comes first? Before MY wedding, at least-FYI, i'm a minor-)
Anyway, really wanna see this episode, and it sounds totally awesome
Or, as Fang put it, "Better than soaps!" And just as edictive. ;)
I'm glad that you like the episode even though you haven't seen it. Now THAT'S a talented producer! ;)
Ah, The Reckoning. With your ramble, you answred one of my most pondered questions!
Anyway, I LOVE this episode. I've never seen it all the way through; I think it is the only episode I've NEVER seen fully (always came in right at the "tin can" line. But you mentioned that it was the fifth last episode, before possesion and HM?
I've always seen it aired AFTER Posession, though all other episodes were in correct oprder.
The Reckoning sets up the relationship between mother and daughter, develops relationships further between Talon and the Gargoyles, and shows us how naieve (SP?) Demona really is.
Demona didn't learn the Thailog was using her, even back in Paris; she still thinks he loves her. But then again Demona has a one-track mind.
I think Demona finally gets it when - enter stage left - Delilah is introduced by Thailog himself.
From what I understand, the idea of the "clan" was sacred back in 990 AD when there were clans in Scotland. Demona has been so messed up over the centuries so much so that if she calls a bunch of botched clones a "clan" then she really has forgotten what a CLAN truely is.
And of course the great delivery: "Ah, but it's a very clever tin can!" What a great line, like you said.
Tim Curry back as sevarious. Another great performance. His voice is so unique. And he does such a good job in the role.
"How many Gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" That made for a great contest. And some of the responses were way past funny.
It was quite clever to use Californian names simialr to NY names.
Great episode all around.
P.S. Comic's been sold out everywhere I go. Read it 8 or 9 times. Bought 2 copies. Keep up the great work. Better than the Origianl Journey.
Thanks. The L.A. names actually were a direct result of discussions on the old Disney Afternoon e-mailing list. Someone asked what the names would have been if Xanatos had built his castle in L.A. rather than N.Y. The question fascinated me, and so...
Although I cheated. I think Burbank's name would have been something more like Santa Ana.
Thanks for the ramble on "The Reckoning", Greg - and it's a pity that you had to wait half a year to get it up here. A few thoughts of mine about it.
One amusing little piece; when Sevarius started making the clones for Thailog, the first time that I saw this episode, I somehow was briefly expecting (from the combination of the robot mosquito and Sevarius's quip about "a growth industry") that Sevarius was coming up with some sort of giant insects - or something with insect-like components. (And, yes, the Clones make much better sense, especially when I discovered that the mosquito *was* a robot.)
I like the touch of Sevarius saying "Three down and two to go" - a nice subtle way of preparing the audience for the extra clone of Delilah.
One thing about the Clones' names; they reminded me a little of an episode in the first "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" cartoon where the Shredder decided to come up with some mutant frogs to counter the Turtles, and, echoing Splinter's naming the Turtles after his favorite Renaissance artists, named the frogs after *his* favorite historical figures - Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, and Rasputin. I found myself reminded of that with the Clones being named after Los Angeles features as a parallel to the names of Goliath's clan. (Do the Clones' names say anything, I wonder, about what Demona thinks of L.A.?)
I thought that Fang made a great comic-relief figure here - he certainly gets a lot of the best lines. (Regarding the "Kinky" line of his - he should have been glad that Demona wasn't in the same cell with him when he said that!)
It's interesting that "The Reckoning" should have been originally intended as the season finale, since Goliath's line at the end about "a new beginning for us all" sounds very appropriate to an open-ended season finale. But I think that "Hunter's Moon" made a much better season finale. For one thing, it brought in more of the major threads of the series that weren't in "The Reckoning" besides Demona (Goliath and Elisa's feelings about each other, the feud with Xanatos, and human hostility towards gargoyles). I hope that you'll get to ramble on those three episodes soon - after doing "Possession", of course.
Thanks again for the new ramble.
Your welcome. Hope to get back to the rambles after I've caught up here. I know that sounds like a pipe dream to many of you, but I really feel I am making real progress.
It's been pointed out to me that one of my recent responses came across as harsh, as if I was trying to blame the fandom for the lack of sales on the DVDs. If so, I apologize. I didn't feel like I was blaming the fandom. I'm sorry if it came off that way. And I'm not saying I think Disney shouldn't have promoted the first two releases more. Of course, I think they should have. But I also can't lie and say they dropped a ball they NEVER intended to carry. I convinced Disney that there was a substantial built in audience for the DVDs. Perhaps I was wrong. I'm not trying to blame the fandom so much as get them to think in terms of more productive solutions. Just sitting around and blaming Disney isn't productive.
But again, if I came across as blaming the fandom, I truly apologize. That was never my intent.
Since Bryan Singer's Superman Returns has become a critical and box-office success, although some might dispute the B.O. part, would you now feel more confidant (should you ever get the chance to do Gargoyles again [like, 1 in a mill.]) that people could accept ignoring TGC as cannon and just move the storytelling as you intended like Singer did with ignoring Superman 3 % 4?
Singer's movie has no bearing on my decision.
I want to know why disney doesn't make volume two for season two on dvd... I mean they already make enough money as is, and gargolyes is getting more popular now, i think they should start thinking about bringing back the t.v series!!!... I know disney says there is not enough sales for season two to make the second half of season two, but come on guys is money really the only thing u can think of? what about the fans? think for just once about the little guy...
Who exactly are you addressing this too?
Look, Disney isn't a charity, and I don't expect them to act like one. They are a company with stock holders (including me by the way) that expect them to make money. That is their responsibility. You can argue over what would make them the most money but not over whether or not that should be their goal.
The responsibility was ALWAYS ours to get out there and make sure sales were high. If I had gone to them and said "In order for this to work, you need to dedicate a large marketing budget to the project, and you need to be prepared to release all the episodes even if sales don't justify it," they would have looked at me like I was nuts... or called security.
Don't push this off on Disney. I might not be happy with all their decisions or feel that they did all they could to maximize Gargoyles success, but at the end of the day they gave us our shot and WE the fandom wasn't large enough and/or didn't spread the word effectively enough to get the release of Volume Two. That's just reality. Perhaps it's unpleasant reality, but no sense living in a fantasy world. (Pun intended.)
Having said all that, I don't think it's impossible that Volume Two will come out. I'm going to try again this month to get them to take a second look at the numbers. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
I was skimming the archives the other day when i read something about how Thailog got his name when you were rewinding "Awakening", or something like that. Anyway, that got me playing with the other characters names 2, and I realized when you say Demona's name backwards it almost sounds like "a nomad." Did u know this? I thought it was kind of an interesting coinscidence, since she is, so I thought u outa know. Thank you for your time, and thanks for making the best animated series, like, ever.
Oh, and while we're on the subject of names, is there any reason Demona's name is pronounced De-MO-na as apposed to just Demon-a? I hope that made sence cuz it's kinda hard to ask a question on pronuciation in an email. I just ask cuz it took me awhile that her name was just supposed to be 'demon' with an a after i first started watching the show. Ok! Thanks again! U rock!
"A Nomad" never occurred to me, but it is very apt.
As for her frontways pronunciation, that's just what seemed natural.
Well, I didn't make to the LA Gathering :(
I got home from G'05 to find that management had cut my hours at work, and by October I was unemployed.
So yeah, I had just enough money to keep alive and there was no chance of getting to LA this year. I did pre-register though, so at least I made my contribution.
To make things even better, I got a bad cold that lasted the four days of the Con, then suddenly got better. The Universe conspires against me! :D
Everyone who went this year seems to have had a great time, so congrats to Jen & Co for pulling off yet another wonderful Gathering.
Kyt informs me that I have been registered for next year at Pigeon Forge, so now I *have* to come. Time to go mug old ladies for spare change I think ;D
I'm going to leave you with something I left out of my Montreal Gathering journal (my first Gathering):
Thurday night, when everyone was arriving at the hotel, Kelly and I were waiting for an elevator to go up to our room.
A bunch of people got off and Kelly introduced me to one in particular. You.
I said Hi and I think I shook your hand. We got in the elvator and headed up.
It took me two stories to realise what had just happend, I turned to Kelly and went "That was *THE* Greg!"
I felt like and idiot :D
Here's hoping I'm less of a fool next year :)
By now, we're old friends though, right?
Gathering Con Journal, as written on Wednesday, June 28:
Made it back last night. A lot of the convention is a blur for me. I didn't take any notes, and forgot my camera. I debated on getting a disposable camera when some of us stopped at a Rite-Aid on the way to Jen's on Thursday, but decided against it. In this digital age, it's easy to get the photos for other people who were at the con, and I didn't want to have to scan, crop, and resize photos.
Thursday, got picked up by Greg X and Patrick. We swung by Kyt's and then made our way to Jen's. Steph and Seth were already there, and we packed up all the vehicles with everything that was needed, and made our way to the hotel. We claimed our rooms, unpacked the cars, made a new run for supplies, copies and the like, and went back to the hotel. We were eventually joined by the rest of the staff -- the Morgans, Cindy, Laurean, Carol -- and Greg Weisman. We assembled the packets for the attendees. We went out for dinner, joined by several more people. We slept.
Friday, we assembled the art show panels, and then we had the first staff breakfast (french toast). Those of us who had art put it up in the art show after breakfast. I was hosting a couple of panels first thing, so Kyt, Steph and myself made our way to the proper room and gave our Sketching 101 class. Kyt and I continued with the Character design class. Then, there was running around, I forget the rest of the afternoon until Opening Ceremonies. We saw the music videos then. They were good. It was a good idea to show them at Opening Ceremonies -- that way it made it easy to get a lot of votes. Dinner consisted of ordered pizza in our room. Yay!
Saturday, Staff breakfast of tasteless scrambled eggs. Then, I helped a bit with Registration, ran around with errands, sat on Mug-a-Guests (Jymn Magon sat with us as we waited for Dave Schwartz who was stuck in traffic; Jymn was awesome), had a portfolio review with Frank Paur, who gave me very positive and helpful comments, gave out business cards, discussed the animation industry, sat in the art show and drew a little, sold a print, ran around helping out, watched the Radio Play, went out for dinner, came back for Blue Mug, was exhausted and decided to go to bed, updated LJ, talked with Jen and Steph in bed until way too fackin' late.
Sunday, Staff breakfast again. Breakfast tortilla of DOOM it was so huge, so I ate only half. Sat on Comic book panel, made faces at Steph. Sat on another portfolio review Mug-a-Guest with Bob Kline, who finally remembered me from 2001. Commented especially on my wonderful posing. (Squeeee! It was what he'd told me to work on back in 2001...) Did the auction with Laurean while Patrick was secretary. Kicked auction ass. Bought a sword. Got prettied up for banquet, turned heads. Corsets will do that. Took charge of directing banquet, had good food, was generally happy with friends. Then, helped Cindy with costume, got together with volunteers to wrangle the audience and participants for the masquerade, was very grateful for volunteers (Shaun, Dercesthai and Asatira, you guys rock), got the guests in to judge, decided to allow some of the people there for the wedding next door in just to watch the Masquerade. Saw all the costumes; lots of good work. Guests went out to deliberate over a few drinks. Danced for a bit, then wondered where the heck the guests had gone to after a long while, and sent someone to collect them from the con suite. Got them back, prizes were given out, well deserved. Went back upstairs to help Cindy out of her costume. Came back downstairs in the mood to party, found party had died down. Blue Mug had been interrupted the night before, so it was picked up again. Sang with Jen's daughter Stephanie. Saw her and her mom do routine from Three Amigos. Got out of there, eventually came back with Kyt, Steph and Jen, because we were staff and we had to make sure at least one of us was there until closing of the room. Jen laid the smack down and expulsed the two wedding people when it was clear they were drunk and disruptive. Steph and I zombied back to the room. I fell asleep quickly.
Monday came too early. Got up, had staff breakfast of Eggs Benedict, went to host panels (Fan to Pro, Iron Artist, Digital Colouring); got my remaining art and won bid delivered to me after the last panel. Sat on short and sweet Closing Ceremonies. Cleaned up our room for Dead Dog party with Kyt, Susan and Stephanie. Met up with the remaining crew and went to late lunch, shared appetizers with Kyt, Allaine and a newbie, Carrie. Sampled a White Pear Sangria, is yummy. Got back to hotel, had dead dog party, made drinks for people, addicted Tim to Sortilège, a maple/canadian whisky liqueur, and drew him art of Vivienne. Greg W showed us the raw footage from the 2004 Gathering. Was surprised at how well presented and well spoken I was in my interview. People bounced on the bed. Lots of laughing and drinking. People trickled out slowly, some to go home, some to catch a plane, some to go to bed. When everyone was gone, Jen, Steph and I chatted for a bit in bed, talking about our friends, about each other, and about how we hate the physical distance between all of us.
Tuesday, I woke up at 7 on the nose, no alarm or anything. I took a shower, got ready, said my "do I have to go?" goodbyes to Jen and Steph, met Patrick in the lobby, he drove me to the airport. Got checked in electronically, dropped my bags quickly enough, got through security rather easily, had an early lunch, boarded the plane, slept a bit on the plane, watched Eight Below, read most of my Anthology, landed, went through customs, picked up luggage, had to go through Immigration to show my sword and be allowed to take it home. Adam and Matthieu had been going in circles in the car waiting for me. Ran to the car, got whistled at by the security person because Adam was stopped where he wasn't allowed, dumped everything in the car and went home. Snuggled with my little boy, put him in his PJs and put him to bed finally. Snuggled with husband, happy to be home.
No one can say the Gathering staff doesn't keep busy. Glad you had fun too!
I'm not very good at remembering details, so this will be kind of short. I'm also formal when it comes to people I've just met, so I use Mr. a lot. I hope I did this right! ^_^
June 23, 2006
Jurgan and I went to the Gathering together. It was our first big vacation. We arrived at the Hyatt hotel around 12 pm. I picked up my badge and decided to hang around the dealer's room until the hotel got our room ready. Then, Jurgan and I checked in and looked over the schedule. By the time we were done with everything, it was time for the opening ceremonies. This was my first time ever coming to the Gathering, and it looked like a lot of other people were new, too. This was also the first time I'd ever seen Greg Weisman. We watched the music videos and the making of Gargoyles. It was very interesting. After the opening, Jurgan and I went back up to our rooms to decide where to go to dinner. On the way back downstairs, Mr. Weisman shared an elevator with us. We introduced ourselves and talked while waiting to get to the 1st floor. We went to dinner and then to bed.
June 24, 2006
I started off my day by getting up early and going to the dealer's room. I absolutely love going to the dealers' room and the art room because I always have to buy things when I go someplace new. I bought a Gathering T-shirt and some cat ears, then made my way to the Gargoyle Physiology, Psychology, and Society panel. It was interesting to hear the people discussing how a gargoyle could have enough power to destroy something, yet be light enough to glide. I stayed in that room to watch the Dude Looks Like a Lady panel. I have always wanted to cosplay as a guy, and this panel really helped with the questions I had. Then, I watched the Advanced Costuming panel while Jurgan went to mug Crispin Freeman. I learned a lot about making very nice wings and feet from things that were inexpensive. This panel confirmed what I already thought to be true: duct tape is your friend! I stayed in the room to see the Villains, Villainy, and Plots panel. After that, I went to the Darkwing Duck panel. I got to hear some wonderful things about the show, as well as that it's coming out on DVD soon. Afterwards, I got Jim Cummings' autograph. Someone borrowed my pen, and then gave it to Mr. Cummings to use. He never gave it back, so he kind of stole my pen, but I later told him he could keep it. I still think it's funny to say that Darkwing Duck stole my pen. After that, Jurgan and I went to see the radio play. The people chosen for the play did a wonderful job. I absolutely loved it! After that, we went to the room and had dinner, and then I went to bed while Jurgan went to the Blue Mug.
June 25, 2006
Started the day once again by buying stuff! I got a cloak, a bracelet, some artwork, and a grab bag. At 10am, we went to the Gargoyles the Comic Book panel. That was very interesting mainly because during the panel, the hotel guys came and took the wall. They forgot to separate the rooms again after the radio play, so they decided to fix them during the panel. Next door, there was a church service going on, and they looked very confused as well. We got some autographs, and then went to Crispin Freeman's panel on Mythological Animation. It was wonderful to see how the western and eastern types of animation differ. After that, I got Mr. Freeman's autograph, and we went to Team Trivia. I had a great time playing the game, and even remembered things about the show I thought I had forgotten. Afterwards, I went to the art room and met someone I kind of knew from Gaiaonline. Her name was Fusion Demon. We chatted for a bit and she drew me a picture, but I didn't get to get it because I had to leave. We left the hotel at 3pm, but not before pre-registering for next year's Gathering. I had a wonderful time and can't wait to go back next year!
See you in 2007!