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I've been a fan of Gargoyles since ever, but i didnt know it co tinued i comics till two days ago!!!! OMG!!! THATS AWESOME! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! but now i have a questio about gargate biology. I read that they go into heat every twenty years, on years that end in "7" but ...
What about just physical maturity? At what age are they physically mature, and Is this different from when they are seen as adults by their clan?
Okay, first, it's years that end in 8 not 7. (How weird would '7' be?!!)
Second, it depends on how you're defining physical maturity. The Trio were old enough to be considered warriors in 994 when they were 36 years old chronologically (and 18 biologically). On the other hand, Kermit and True would still have been considered children then, when they were 16 chronologically (and 8 biologically).
I am a big fan of the Gargoyle cartoon (havenÂ´t read the comics though, just read about some of the things that happens in them online, but I really donÂ´t know much about them, beside the whole time-dancer plot)and I admirer your imagination for creating them.
I got some question about the trio
1. How many gargoyles were hatched in their rookery, and did some leave the clan before the masqare?
2.How close were they to their other rookery siblings?
3.How bad was the masqare effect them and how much do they miss the ones who are dead
4. How much do they miss Scotland and the 10. century (I know itÂ´s clear that theyÂ´ve adjusted well to Manhattan and the 20. century, but still)
5. How close were they to anyone outside of their own rookery
6.How close are they to the mutants and Matt Bluestone.
1a. Don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. And I don't have my Gargoyles notebooks here at my WB office.
2. Close to some.
3. I'll let you use your imagination for this one.
4. Sometimes more than others.
5. Close to some.
6. Mutates? It's a mix. As for Matt, Broadway's probably closest to him. But they all get along.
Did Hudson influence Goliathâs decision at all as to who shouldâve been Goliathâs second in command?
If something had happened to Goliath before he had chosen a second in command, I would assume that Hudson wouldâve become leader at first, but then would choose someone else to lead since heâs older and believes that a younger leader would be best (which is indicated in the episode Upgrade). If this was the case, who would Hudson have considered becoming the new leader of the clan? Would he have based his decision along the same lines as Goliath, or would he have looked for other qualifications?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
Hudson and Goliath are two different guys... but I still think Hudson would have ended up choosing Brooklyn.
Any characters you were surprised to see becoming popular? The ensemble darkhorse in other words.
What series are we talking about here?
I guess I'll assume we're talking Gargoyles. And, no, not really. Perhaps I underestimated the Trio's popularity a bit, but I never thought they'd be UNpopular. But we can pretty much see who's popping as we're making the series.
Have Angela, the Trio, and Bronx ever killed someone? I don't mean like in the show, but back in the 10th Century? With Hudson, Goliath, and Demona being as battle hardened as they are it's sort of obvious they've done the deed, but I've always been curious to the younger members of the clan.
Well, not Angela. But I think it's very possible that Bronx and/or the Trio might have. And almost definite that Brooklyn did at Rathveramoen.
I've noticed that in Gargoyles, Lexington is much smaller and much more naive than all of the other characters. Is he any younger than the others, or is this simply his design/nature?
I don't think he is more naive. He's not any younger than Broadway. He is smaller.
G2009 Radio Play - Act Three
Norman Osborn was a fool. So obsessed with the power of science, he kept the Crown of Thorns in this vault as if it was just another souvenir â" albeit an expensive one â" to hang upon his wall. But with the Crown and the Spear of Destiny together, I now have the power to force all of humanity to its knees.
These are Christian icons, Demona. Not every human being is a Christian.
Not every human being speaks Latin, but that didnât stop me from using a Latin spell to turn a city-full of humans to stone. The magic I wield is potent beyond measure. Mine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory. No human may resist. No human will be spared. None will be spared who oppose me. Just look at this foolâ¦
Her name is Obsidiana.
Of course it is. For she wears the mystic Obsidian pendant fashioned by human sorcerers. Even that is enough to put her in my thrall. She has relinquished her gargoyle birthright.
I have relinquished nothing.
Demona waves the Spear of Destiny, and Electro rises and blasts Goliath back into the wall.
Yes, Iâm surprised youâre unaffectedâ¦ since you reek of humanity. The stink of your human whore is in your hair, on your lips, everywhere. And nothing in this world will give me more pleasure, Goliath, than watching your detective on her knees to me, as she draws her service revolver and thanks me with tears of joy in her eyesâ¦ before gratefully blowing out her own brains.
That will never be.
No? My power expands with every second. I doubt sheâs far away.
You will not harm Elisa.
Goliath advances on Demona. Electro blasts away, but Goliath will not be stoppedâ¦
No one ever said you werenât persistent, Goliath. But what do you hope to gain?
(through gritted teeth)
I will turn these forces back upon you.
Impossible. I am the last true gargoyle left on this world. The Crownâs magicks cannot touch me.
So you believe. But I am not the only one who reeks of humanity. Am Iâ¦ Dominique?!
Goliath grasps the crown. The thorns bite into his hands, drawing blood. They struggle for control of the immense powerâ¦
691. GOLIATH, DEMONA
<roaring to the heavens>
Goliathâs intervention â" and his complete immunity to the Crownâs effects â" creates the smallest of fluctuation in Demonaâs control. In a haze, Spider-Man lifts his armâ¦
He shoots off a web, yanking the bloody crown from Demonaâs head.
There is a massive explosion of mystic energy and light! Demona, Goliath and Electro collapse.
The Spearâ¦ the Crownâ¦
Gone. I think theyâ¦ blew up. Calypsoâs gone too. But Iâm betting thatâs just a talent of hers. And Iâd guess sheâs taken Kraven and the pussycat with her.
But the Big Badâs still hereâ¦
Leaving behind, as always, nothing but a handful of thornsâ¦
Goliath, Spider-Man and Demona sit. Jonah, Elisa, Matt and George STAND.
While Goliath helps Obsidiana, Spidey webs up Demona, Electro and Ock. In the outer vault, Zafiro and the Trio recover, finding only an unconscious and de-venomed Eddie Brock. Outside, the bad guys have all been beaten. Goblin and Vulture, their tech badly damaged, barely manage to fly away. Carnage and Jupiter are once again Cletus and John.
Iâm here, Johnny. Your old Popâs hereâ¦
Call an ambulance, Elisa. Old Man Dracon said something about seeing a light. Then he collapsed. A stroke or something. Iâve been giving him C.P.R.
Mattâ¦ Matt! You can stop. Stop. Heâs gone.
Youâre gargoyles are flying off, Detective.
Really? Not sure I see âem myself. But is that Spidey web-slinging away?
You think? I must have missed him?
Are you all blind?! Theyâre right over there!
714. GEORGE, MATT, ELISA (UNISON)
Oh, give it a rest, Margotâ¦
Elisa, Matt, George, Margot and Jonah sit. Peter, May, Harry and Gwen STAND.
Back at the busâ¦
Iâm back. And not a single decent picture to show for my efforts.
Well, you tried your best, Peter. Iâm sure Mr. Jameson will appreciate that.
Oh, yeah. Heâs a sweetheart that way.
Emily Osborn watches as her son finally emerges from the bathroom.
Hey, Gwen. I feel much better.
Harry, Gwen, Peter and May sit. Jonah and Robbie STAND.
Later that night, at The Bugleâ¦
Whaddayou mean I canât publish it?! How else can I make them all pay for what they did to Johnny!
You canât publish because the authorities refuse to comment. We have no pictures or statements to corroborate a story that includes gargoyles, a dead Green Goblin and everything except the kitchen sink. No one will believe it. I was there, and I donât believe it! Print this, Jonah, and The Bugle becomes the next Daily Tattler.
Ms. Brant, call the bomb squad. BECAUSE IâM ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!
Jonah and Robbie sit. Gwen, Peter, Kong, Curt, Harry, EMILY OSBORN and Mary Jane STAND.
Later still, aboard OsCorpâs private jet en route to Miamiâ¦
I still canât believe we ran into you in the airport parking lot, Doctor Connors.
Yeah, and weâre so sorry you got mugged.
Dude, they took your shoes?! Thatâs hilarious! <laughs>
Yes, well, I just really appreciate the ride back to Floridaâ¦
Anytime, Doctor C. Anytime.
Harry, could I have a momentâ¦ in your fatherâs office?
Uh, sure, Mom.
Curt, Kong and Gwen sit.
734. MARY JANE
736. MARY JANE
Tiny. Cute enough, but itâs like talking to a tree stump.
Tried to warn you.
738. MARY JANE
Just say weâll spend the week as a threesome, okay, Tiger.
740. MARY JANE
Not that kind of threesome.
Mary Jane and Peter sit.
Meanwhile, Harry follows his mother Emily into the jetâs private office.
I know you were playing at being the Goblin, Harry.
What?! Mom, thatâs crazy! I was in the bathroomâ¦
Donât lie to me, baby. You hired the worst chauffer in the city to delay our progress. You had a secret hatch installed in the bus bathroom, so you could slip in and out undetected. And you left a pre-recorded âvomit tapeâ with voice recognition software. All very impressive for a sixteen-year-old. But you need to understandâ¦ the Green Goblin is not what your father wanted for you.
I have no idea what Dad wanted for meâ¦
Then let him tell youâ¦
She slips a DVD into the computer and Norman Osborn appears on screenâ¦
NORMAN OSBORN STANDS.
Harry, my son. If you are watching this, then I am dead. And I have instructionsâ¦
Norman, Emily and Harry sit. Big Man, Blackie and SHARI STAND.
Meanwhile at the Big Manâs office, he and Blackie Gaxton are visited by Shari, a young woman wearing a pendant depicting an eye atop a pyramidâ¦
750. BIG MAN
Nine. Any problems?
753. BIG MAN
Not particularly. Ms. Destine was ready to believe I could find Dracon and the others useful.
And that faux Goblin was happy to believe Iâd been fooled into thinking he was the real thing.
Blackie removes his false face, revealing that he is actually the Chameleon in disguise.
Just as he was happy to believe I was the real Blackie Gaxton. But Iâm still not sure why the Society wanted all thisâ¦?
Isnât it enough to know the Illuminati appreciates your efforts?
CHAMELEON and Big Man sit. THAILOG, BRENTWOOD, Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 And Homunculus #3 STAND.
Shari leaves Lincolnâs office and pulls out her cellphoneâ¦
Dial Nightstone Unlimited.
The Spear? The Crown?
Waiting for you to send to Duval.
Brentwood capture little robot. Use it to control other little robots. When bright light shine, robots take spear and crown.
What should we do with the Homunculi?
Set them free. Maybe theyâll get their own series some day.
767. HOMUNCULUS #1
Free, free, set them freeâ¦
768. HOMUNCULUS #2
On basic cable and DVDâ¦
769. HOMUNCULUS #3
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Shari, Thailog and Brentwood sit. Elisa and Goliath STAND.
At the castle, Elisaâs cell rings.
Mazaâ¦ Yeah, Captain Stacy said you might call. Sure, heâs right here.
She hands the phone to Goliath, who doesnât quite know how to hold it. She takes it back and puts the call on speaker.
Hey, Goliath. Itâs your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
You protect yourâ¦ neighborhood.
Just like you do the super-hero thing without the tights.
Spider-Man, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Hey, I was just gonna say that. You saw that movie too?
God, I love youâ¦ <kiss>
Elisa, Goliath and Spider-Man sit. Kafka STANDS.
And finally â" yes, finally â" we end where we began. In the offices of Dr. Ashley Kafka at Ravencroft. Sheâs on the phone to her Board of Directors.
After all that tsuris, little has changed. Otto and Eddie are still disassociative. Max still needs a cure, and John still wants power. Cletus? He just keeps repeating, âI got a taste now,â over and over. Yes, we lost Dominic, Iâm afraid. But we do have a new patientâ¦
783. KAFKA (CONT)
Just wait until the sun goes downâ¦
Dominique and Kafka sit.
NEXT: I finally get back to answering questions...
Hudson has or had a biological child in Goliath's generation, the Trio's generation, and Bronx's generation. That means that Goliath and the Trio would have considered him one of their rookery fathers and Hudson regards them as his rookery children. (I'm guessing he regards Bronx somewhat differently, though correct me if I'm wrong.) So why do we never hear Goliath or any of the Trio calling Hudson "father" or him referring to any of them as "son"?
Their relationships are MORE specific than that. When you have a LOT of fathers (back in the day), many different varieties of relationships develop in addition to the paternal-filial. That doesn't mean they don't consider Hudson a rookery father, but it's not how they define him.
can you tell us what lex and broadways reactions to brooklyn having a fammily will you make them jealouse
Time will tell.
This is more of a Wyvern Clan culture question than a hypothetical one.
After Goliath sends the Trio and Bronx to the rookery and Demona questions his decision to punish them (out of their earshot like a good second, as you noted in the commentary), Goliath tells her that he will make it up to them somehow. If the Wyvern Massacre hadn't intervened, what are some things Goliath might have done to make it up to the Trio and Bronx?
I'm not sure he even knew. Probably a heart-to-heart and a little winging.
is eliza like a surrogate mother to the trio?
More like a big sister.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Halcyon Renard returns to Manhattan and contacts Matt Bluestone, informing him of Goliath and Elisa Maza's situation. Matt passes the word on to Hudson and the Trio, who inform Talon. Matt also attempts to cover for Elisa with her parents and Captain Maria Chavez.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Derek Maza starts working for David Xanatos. Jackal and Hyena attack them, but the Trio intervenes. Lexington manages to land Jackal's helicopter and hide it.
In Ireland, Rory Dugan and his girlfriend Molly steal a jacket from a local shop and manage to elude the police - just as the four travelers arrive from Avalon. The Banshee quickly captures Elisa Maza, Angela and Goliath.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa Maza gives the Trio a helicopter simulation video game.
Goliath, Angela, Elisa Maza and Bronx rest through the day in London, allowing Goliath's injured wing to heal. That night, they return to Avalon. Griff, Leo and Una become protectors of London again.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath confronts David Xanatos, who intends to test himself against the gargoyle leader. Wearing his armor, Xanatos and his Steel Clan robots attack Goliath and the Trio. The battle culminates at the Statue of Liberty, where the robots are destroyed, and Xanatos is forced to retreat -- but not until after he's successfully tested his armor and himself.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Convinced that David Xanatos is responsible for Elisa Maza's disappearance, Talon leads the Trio in an attack on the Eyrie Building. Xanatos and Owen Burnett test out their new (Thailog motivated) security system and Owen's new stone fist. Ultimately, however, they allow the foursome to fruitlessly search the place once Xanatos discovers that Goliath and the others are missing. Meanwhile, Fang has staged a coup down in the Labyrinth. He takes Talon prisoner upon his return. Maggie the Cat, however, escapes with Claw's aid and seeks help at the Clock Tower. After sundown, Brooklyn leads the gargoyles and Maggie against Fang and his minions. Talon is freed and Fang is captured.
Dingo, Matrix, Hunter, Yama and Fang are approaching an island when their battle-copter Redemption is blown out of the sky.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Edward the Confessor dies of natural causes. His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, succeeds him.
Goliath, Lexington, Bronx and Brooklyn return to Castle Wyvern atop the Eyrie Building but are intercepted by Elisa Maza, Hudson and Broadway, who finally manage to convince Goliath to follow Elisa to their new home at the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct -- but not before Goliath warns Owen Burnett that the clan will some day return. David Xanatos is finally released from jail that morning and returns to the castle. He starts serving his probation. Later that day, Xanatos goes to Gen-U-Tech Systems to observe Anton Sevarius' progress. Sevarius has successfully cloned Goliath and begins to accelerate the growth of "Thailog".
Hudson and the Trio have been searching for Goliath and Bronx to no avail. Broadway, realizing that Elisa Maza is missing too, brings her cat Cagney back to the Clock Tower. Brooklyn resists taking the reins of leadership, but he does go to visit Talon and Maggie the Cat in the Labyrinth, where homeless humans like Al, Chaz and Lou have joined the Mutates in what is supposed to be a free society of outcasts. Broadway visits Matt Bluestone next, but Matt is equally in the dark over his partner's disappearance. Lex eavesdrops on Elisa's parents and learns they are also worried. Meanwhile on Queen Florence Island, Elisa and the gargoyles find each other again, and then find Grandmother as she transforms into the Thunderbird. Grandmother later admits that she was undergoing these transformations to convince Natsilane to take up arms against Raven to save the island. When Natsilane meets the gargoyles, he is convinced. The gargoyles and Natsilane battle Raven and drive him away. With Raven gone, Grandmother is able to heal the island. The travelers again return to Avalon, where it is six in the morning, causing Goliath, Angela and Bronx to turn to stone.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
NOTE THAT THIS IS CORRECT FOR DECEMBER 27. THE PREVIOUS POST FOR DECEMBER 26 IS INCORRECT. AT THIS TIME, I HAVE NOTHING IN THE TIMELINE THAT DEFINITELY TOOK PLACE ON 12/26.
The Manhattan Clan enjoys a pleasant, peaceful night at the castle: Broadway cooks; Goliath reads; Lex and Brooklyn play cards; Hudson watches Donald Duck on TV; Bronx chews a bone. Meanwhile, David Xanatos is still counting down the days until his release.
Hudson and the Trio patrol, while Goliath and Bronx remain behind at the Clock Tower. Tom, now known as the Guardian, arrives in New York, looking for Goliath. He is arrested by Officer Morgan Morgan, who mentions him to Elisa Maza. Elisa arranges a meeting between Goliath and Tom.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath and Broadway, who aren't in on Elisa Maza's undercover charade, follow her and come close to blowing her cover. She covers, however, and manages to get a meeting with Tony Dracon, where the two of them agree to go into business together with the gargoyles. The gargoyles and cops wind up foiling Dracon's operation and getting him to confess his transgressions on videotape. He's arrested and sent away. Goliath tastes jalapeñas for the first time. Later that morning, Elisa's sister Beth Maza comes into town from Arizona. That evening, while the Trio attend a rock concert in the park, Beth spots Talon watching the Maza family from outside Elisa's window. Later, Goliath admits that he has seen the Mutates back with David Xanatos. Elisa and Goliath confront Talon. Elisa reveals to her brother that Anton Sevarius isn't dead. Talon's extreme stance convinces Goliath to take drastic action.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The trio realize that the rest of the clan is missing and -- utilizing a tip from Fox and a plan from Brooklyn -- manage to find the Pack and rescue their friends. Coyote-II is destroyed, and Dingo, Jackal, Hyena and Wolf are left for the police. (And thus Fox wins the little game she was playing against David Xanatos.) Goliath chooses Brooklyn as his Second-in-Command.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The trio have grown steadily more at odds over Goliath's inability to choose one of them as a Second. They have begun competing to see who can stop the most street crime. Elisa, Goliath, Hudson and Bronx are captured by a newly upgraded Pack. Coyote has a new robot body. Hyena & Jackal are now cyborgs. Wolf is a mutate. And Dingo has new battle armor. Meanwhile, Halcyon Renard, who had been searching for some means to fight the disease that is killing him, discovers an incantation that will transfer his soul into the Golem of Prague.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Trio goes to see the movie Showdown for the first time.
Early in the afternoon, Fox wires a down payment to Preston Vogel's Swiss bank account, securing his services for her hostile effort to take over Halcyon Renard's Cyberbiotics company. That evening, Cyberbiotics launches Fortress-2. Despite Elisa's concern, Goliath follows the airship to protect it, but he is viewed as a threat and is captured by Renard's cybots. Meanwhile, Fox receives test results from her doctor, confirming she is pregnant with Xanatos' child.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
While Elisa again tries to convince Goliath to abandon the castle, they are attacked by a Steel Clan Robot. Goliath destroys it, but Owen uses the opportunity to acquire some of Goliath's genetic material.
The Pack attempts to rob a bank. The gargoyles try to stop them. Goliath is badly injured - allowing the Pack to escape. Hudson informs Goliath that he needs to choose one of the Trio to be his Second-in-Command.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Trio finds an old abandoned motorcycle, and Lex decides to rebuild it.
Petros returns to Bar Harbor, Maine.
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Are the Trio's Belt color Black or Brown?
I don't know.
Ive notice in the new Gargoyles comics, the Trios Loincloths are light brown instead of dark blue, is this a art error or something else?
I don't know. Maybe Fox provided a change of clothes.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
Xanatos' probation expires.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos acquires the Cauldron of Life and prepares to test it by ordering the construction of a pair of Macbeth robots and a statue of Hudson. He also begins looking for a sword that will match Hudson's to be used with the statue.
Relieving Talon, Goliath takes his shift guarding the Labyrinth prisoners. Thailog busts Demona and Fang out. Talon and Goliath pursue them to Coney Island. Goliath departs and quickly returns with Angela, the Trio and Hudson. All are captured by Fang, Demona, Thailog and his clones: Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank (made from the DNA of Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn and Hudson, respectively).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa discovers that gargoyles turn to stone during the day. She's forced to lead the Commandos away from a stone Goliath in order to protect him. She then waits by his side throughout the day, cementing their friendship. That night the Trio takes the names Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington and gives Bronx his name as well. Xanatos then reunites Goliath with Demona. Together, Demona and Xanatos convince Goliath and the clan to "retrieve" the computer disks from Cyberbiotics. Goliath and Demona attack Cyberbiotics' airship The Fortress-1, costing Vinnie his Cyberbiotics' security job in the process. The gargoyles are successful in recovering the disks. But the Cyberbiotics Underground Base (under the leadership of the Cyberbiotics Commander) is badly damaged by Hudson and Bronx. And Goliath grows disconcerted with the changes in Demona, particularly after she causes the destruction of Fortress-1. Elisa is able to convince Goliath that Xanatos has been using him, revealing that the disks were actually Cyberbiotics' property and that the Commandos were working for Xanatos.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa investigates, encountering first Owen, then Xanatos, then Bronx and finally Goliath. Frightened at seeing a live gargoyle for the first time, she backs away and falls off the building. Goliath saves her life, introduces her to the rest of the clan and agrees to meet her the next night. Early that morning, Xanatos asks Goliath's help to get his disks back. Goliath is reluctant to help. And unbeknownst to him, Xanatos and Demona are planning something. That night, the Trio leaves the castle to explore the city and accidentally trashes the motorcycle of a man named Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson keep the rendezvous with Elisa, who more or less gives Hudson his name. Hudson retreats to the castle with Bronx - where they discover television and lounge chairs. Meanwhile, Goliath and Elisa rescue an ungrateful Margot Yale and Brendan Quarters from muggers, before being attacked in Central Park by the Commandos from the night before.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The final touches on the castle are completed. It now sits atop the Eyrie Building, high "above the clouds", thus fulfilling the condition of the Magus' spell. The Magus' curse is broken, and Goliath, Hudson, the Trio and Bronx awaken to a brave new world. Minutes later, a group of Commandos attack and seem to steal three disks from Xanatos. This attracts the attention of New York City Police Detective Elisa Maza. Elisa also meets Officer Morgan for the first time.
The werefox is first sighted in Manhattan.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In anticipation of Halloween, Elisa helps the Trio order costumes through the mail. Broadway chooses a detective costume. Brooklyn, a pirate. Lex, a pilot.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just before dawn, Goliath and Hudson discover that they have been following only a small contingent of Vikings; the rest must be preparing to attack the castle. The two gargoyles turn to stone before they can get back. Simultaneously, Demona nearly warns Othello and Desdemona, but changes her mind as she sees the Vikings approach. Instead, she hides at the foot of Wyvern cliff, where she turns to stone as the sun rises. Hakon attacks. The archers' sabotaged bows are useless, and the Captain opens the main gate, allowing the Vikings to enter Castle Wyvern, which is sacked. The humans, including Katharine, the Magus, Mary and Tom are led away bound. Hakon then sets about to destroy the gargoyles, including Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Hyppolyta. The Captain is "unable" to stop him. When the sun goes down again, Demona awakens to discover that the Wyvern Clan have been massacred. When she sees Goliath and Hudson returning, she cannot face them and flees before they can discover the massacre. The only other survivors seem to be the Trio and Bronx, who were in the Rookery. The survivors head for the Viking camp to take their revenge. When Hakon and the Captain hear the gargoyles approaching, they take Katharine as a hostage. The Magus mistakenly assumes that the Princess is dead. Blaming the gargoyles, he casts a spell on all but Goliath putting them to sleep "until the castle rises above the clouds." Meanwhile, Goliath confronts the Captain and Hakon atop a cliff. He rescues the Princess, and the two villains fall to their deaths. But when Goliath discovers that the rest of his clan has been turned to stone, he asks the Princess to watch over the eggs in the Rookery and asks the Magus to cast his spell one more time. Goliath is turned to stone with the others and placed atop Castle Wyvern. Demona later returns to the castle to find Goliath frozen in stone. She watches the Magus, Tom and Princess Katharine removing the eggs from Wyvern. She departs for good. Katharine dubs Tom the Guardian of the Gargoyle Eggs. Katharine, the Magus, Tom, Mary and the rest of Wyvern's human inhabitants take the eggs and leave the cursed castle to live under the protection of Katharine's uncle, King Kenneth II. Seconds later, three time travelers arrive in 994: the Demona of 1995 has brought the Demona of 975 along with the Goliath of 1995 to see the results of the massacre. But the 1995 Demona fails to convince the 975 Demona to take up her evil cause. The time travelers depart, returning to 975.
Xanatos proposes to Fox and gives her the Eye of Odin as an engagement gift. She accepts both his proposal and the Eye. Alexander Fox Xanatos is most likely conceived on this night.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Captain approaches Hakon and offers to help him take the Castle. That night, the Captain and Demona try to convince Goliath to take all the gargoyles out of the castle to make sure the Vikings leave for good. But Goliath decides to only take one other gargoyle along with him, leaving Demona in command of the others. Demona and the Captain alter their plan. Hakon will now attack during the day, when the Gargoyles are stone. The Captain swears he'll keep the Gargoyle clan safe. Meanwhile, the Trio and Bronx meet Tom, resulting in a minor altercation with Mary and the refugees. To keep the peace, Goliath sends Bronx and the Trio down to the Rookery. Demona makes one more attempt to change Goliath's mind, and Othello offers to accompany Goliath. Goliath decides to take Hudson instead. Goliath and Hudson follow the Vikings' trail. While back at the Castle, the Captain sabotages the bowstrings of his own archers.
How come Hudson doesn't take on a more fatherly role with the Trio? He seemed to with Goliath and to a lesser extent Demona.
I'd argue he does, keeping in mind that he views the three of them as young adults, not children.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
This is more of an observation than a question.
In the episode Upgrade, Goliath had to choose a second in command. He stated that he didn't want to choose recklessly because it might put a rift between the trio. And he said that "I see now that nothing can come between you three." I guess he didn't count on the fact that Angela is alive and that she might someday fall in love with one of the trio and that might throw a rift between them.
I'm not sure Angela does throw a RIFT into things. They argue when she first shows up, and inevitably they are growing up and won't be joined at the hip anymore, but they'll always be the best of friends.
What day,year,month was Brooklyn born.
Brooklyn, Lexington & Broadway all hatched in 958 on or about the Spring Equinox... so around March 21st.
Hi, Greg. I know you open these for the gathering thing but i got these questions and comments...ya know, it is a nice oportunity. I would love LOVE going to the Gathering but as i am on the other point of the continent (:P) like, i cannot go... Gargoyles is geting very popular here, in Argentina, but i would want to know if the dvd or the comics are going to be able here? :) so the south people can enjoy gargolyes more?:) Jo, anyway, great show, great story, great characters, great drawings and...great me! hahaha.
Fine, now comments and questinos, if u wanna escape, these is the rigth moment:
Demona is one of the best characters i have ever seen before, and i love the contrast that she has with Magnetto, althougt she is, well, crazy.
I get what feelings the poor Goliath still had for Demona, and what feelings Demona had for Goliath, but the others members of the clan once had a close relaitionship with her as well, like "sister-brothers" "daugther-father". So ( i know about Brooklyn, very expresive the guy) what did feel Broadway and Lexingston about that? I mean, if my sister would get mad and because, let´s say, a dog kill someone she loves, now she would be trying to destroy all the dogs of the world:S i would be really...sad?.
It´s the same with Hudson, he ´d seen Demona since her most tender infance, looking her grown up from that little hatchling to that powerfull and nobel warrior she once was. Actually, he was her father. So same question, what did cross his mind every time he see her then in the new millenium? It must be very frustrating.And as we are with him, if Demona was part of the clan no more, they would still be like a daugther and a father, by teorical terms?
And Elisa, she is such a nice person! But althougth all the times Demona has tried to hurt her, Elisa seems to get more anger whenever Xanatos or Tony Dracon tryes something than when Demona does. Why is that she react so "professional" when is Demona who "pops-up" ?
Tempation: Jo, great episode however not the best.
Nice detail: i LOVE that posture of Demona after Brooklyn tryed to take the book away from her for the first time: leaning against the wall, huging the arcanorum as it would be Goliath him-self (XD)looking lunatically from the shadows. It was then when i thougth: something happened to these girl!.
To think: Gargoyles can really keep a groudge for a long time, and not just Demona but then Lexingston and now Brook, c´mon people, let it go!.
I think Demona wasn´t really lieng to Brooklyn...yes she screw it up, but i think she really has a point. Always she has that nasty point of view that makes you think " fuck, she is no so wrong".
Long way to morning: It´s great if you want to see scared things but, i really didn´t like the Demona of the past in these one, she acts very similar to the present, not exactly but...she was nasty.
Reawaking: I love these one, how the clan learns that the people is important and no the place where the people is, how they got more "civilizated". very nice lesson.
The mirror: It´s the first time someone subdue demona in how much time? These episode, i think, it´s the only one ( after high noon) in wich Demona appears that i laugh. Awesome, but why did Demona hesitate when Puck asked her what did she want? It´s not the destruction of human race always on her mind?
City of stone: And everything got sense!! I cried at the end :( poor demon. And that make me ask was the humans hate what drive her on the way she was or it was the lonlyness what twist her brain?
High noon: hahahahahahahahahahahaha...GREAT END!! "Why are we working together!?""grrrr"
Avalon: Macbeth and Demona working together...Woaho.
Well that´s all for now. I really REALLY hope you understan all that crap, i did my best to write in pure english(:P)and if you did not... i am really sorry. A last think!! In ascending list: Whoose of these characters she hates most?: Macbeth, the hunters, Goliath, the rest of the clan, Elisa, the rest of human race, Puck, Thailog. Thanks for your time, bye :)
In the future, numbering your questions would really help me out. Also please avoid using curse-words in this forum. We try to keep it PG.
1. I'm afraid I don't know where the DVDs are available internationally. Have you tried Amazon.com?
2. Broadway and Lex may not have been THAT close to Demona in the Tenth Century. She was too young to be a maternal figure to old to be a Rookery Sister, and perhaps too imposing and/or prickly to be a friend. So her betrayal of the clan, is just that: a betrayal of the clan, not a personal betrayal. Which is not to say that they don't take it personally, cuz I'm sure they do. But they don't feel personally betrayed. Does that make sense?
3. As for Hudson, he is Demona's father. So I think it's much tougher on him. The only saving grace, such as it is, is that I think by the time of the massacre, Hudson had a clearer sense of Demona's true nature. I think deep down the betrayal was less of a shock to him then it was to Goliath. Not that he wasn't surprised. You can see how warmly he greets her in "Awakening, Part Four" when she first resurfaces. But in the end and darkly, I think her role in things saddens but doesn't shock him. I also think he CHOSE to focus his real hatred on Hakon Clan-Slaughterer.
4. I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Elisa vis-a-vis Demona. Certainly Dracon is able to get under Elisa's skin, but I think the thing to keep in mind is that Dracon is HER nemesis. Not Goliath's. Hers. Not that Goliath hasn't been of use there, but Dracon isn't super-human. He's a crook. She's a cop. Dealing with Dracon is HER job. As for Elisa and Demona, I think there are plenty examples of Elisa revealing her true feelings for Demona (in "The Mirror", in "Vows", in "High Noon", etc.) And they aren't without ire. But Elisa didn't lose her clan to Demona. So it's not the same thing.
5. In "The Mirror", Puck had already made the point that he didn't have the power to giver her absolutely anything she wanted, i.e the destruction of the entire human race. So she had to pick a more specific wish. That put her at a brief loss.
6. Loneliness, I believe, was a huge factor in creating the present day Demona. Not the only factor. But a big one.
7. Well, this is a little pointless, but if I have to rank your list, at this time, i.e. as of issue #1 of the comic book, I'd put 'em in this order of hate:
rest of clan
I checked the FAQ and several of the archives and can't find this anywhere. So please god, tell me I didn't miss it.
A while back I had a gargoyles activity book that said Brooklyn didn't like pizza. Then a little bit ago I read a fanfiction story that said Lexington was the one that didn't like pizza. So my question is, which one of the gargoyles is it that doesn't like Pizza? I know that's kind of a dumb question but I'm really curious now.
Originally, it was important to us that NONE of the Trio ate Pizza. This came from us being afraid that the Trio would be regarded as copies of the Turtles, who are pizza-obsessed. So I basically declared that during the first season -- NO PIZZA.
Now that the Trio is established, I'm less concerned. Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that they wouldn't like Pizza. What's not to like?
In "Awakening" when the trio were playing with Bronx and Tom comes to talk to them. His mom throws a stick at them. When their eyes started to glow. Were they trying to scare people away from them or were they just trying to have some fun?
More the former. They were hurt and angry. Basically, you can take at face value what they say in that scene.
To answer Anons question, I know some (plz do corrected me if I'm wrong so I can correct myself)
1)Brooklyn - is 19 years young, 6ft tall and wingspan 6 ft, day he weighs about 210 lbs. , night alot more
2)Broadway - 19 years of age, 6 ft tall, wingspan about 16ft, day time weighing in at a even 2 tons, night I don't even wanna think about it.
3)Lex - 19 years old
(I'm a tad bt out of thier age range)
4)Golaith - I think 29 years old
(Within better age range for me, he's just a few older than I)
5)Hudson - Hatced in 878 A.D., you do the math and get back to me on that one.
6)Bronx - not that old at all
7)Demona - If you know that would also help me, because I have no clue and if I'm wrong I don't want her hunting me down.
Gargoyles Forever !
Anonymous asked for the ages at the time they were cursed. So my numbers are more accurate.
And I don't stand by those weights at all. Frankly, I'm not even sure about the wingspans.
As for Demona, she hatched at the same time as Goliath.
I know that the Clan was frozen in stone for 1,000 years, and I am also aware that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans, but approximately how old was each of the Gargoyles prior to being cursed.
I've answered this before, but...
The first number is the character's actual calendar age. (The second is their approximate human biological equivalent.)
Hudson 116 (58)
Goliath 56 (28)
Trio 36 (18)
Bronx 16 (8)
Here's a new ramble for ASK GREG & the DCV...
As usual, I watched the episode recently with my family.
And as usual, everytime my five year-old Benny, sees Xanatos and Fox, he tells his seven year old sister Erin, "You were her. I was Xanatos and you were Fox." [All quotations (both from my kids or from the episode) are approximate.]
This is a big episode for attitudes.
Xanatos and Fox pit multiple individuals against each other in life and death circumstances and regard it all as a game.
Lex still hates the Pack.
Dingo is disgusted with the Pack's life of crime, and then even more disgusted with what his teammates do to their bodies. Cool lines like "Save the horrorshow..." or "I hope you don't eat your catch..." or "You're barely our species..." or "I still can't get over what you three did to yourselves..." or "I'm a partner in a freakshow..." or "...after they went Frankenstein on me..." all help distinguish him, perhaps for the first time. We had a notion of where Dingo was going. And this episode helped bridge the gap to "Walkabout". And eventually to the development I did with Gary Sperling, Bob Kline, Troy Adomitis, Doug Murphy and Patrick Archibald on "BAD GUYS," which some of you have seen at the Gathering.
How the mighty have fallen. My point-of-view and Dingo's matched up. The Pack were beginning to feel pathetic. The problem with villains is that after the heroes keeps beating them over and over, you need to find a way to keep them competitive. This episode (reflected in its title, which may or may not have been one of mine, but which I latched onto EARLY and stuck with) was always part of my plans for the Pack. Intro them in the first season as humans. This was necessary, because the world of our first season was MUCH more normal. I wanted to weird the world up in small steps. Don't intro Oberon first, intro Puck. That kind of thing. So once the science was established, we'd upgrade.
This dovetailed nicely with the need for Goliath to 'upgrade' one of his warriors to Second-In-Command. Goliath had been Hudson's second. Demona had been Goliath's. But it was past time to name a new successor. We always had Brooklyn in mind for that roll, but I remember asking Gary whether he felt we had succeeded in establishing that without ever having stated it. He felt we had. What did you guys think when you first saw the episode?
The battle at the bank. On my tape, there's an animation glitch where Dingo hits his head and then seems to intentionally hit his head again. I'm hoping it got fixed for later airings.
Anyway, the battle winds down. No one's done very well. But the Pack is on the run. Erin at this point says, "There's no messing with the big boys." Proving that the Pack was no longer competitive.
Wolf yells, "This isn't over!" sounding very much like Hakon to my ears.
Lex wants to pursue, but Brooklyn already the subconscious leader of everyone's choice, says, "Helping Goliath is more important."
Hudson gooses Goliath to choose a second. Refuses the job himself. This is another example of Hudson being the guardian of tradition. He knows they live in a brave new world. But he wants to preserve what worked in the old one as well.
Erin says, "I think Goliath's going to choose the red guy." Meaning Brooklyn. I am briefly horrified that my own kids don't reliably know the names of the lead characters. (Of course, before last week, we hadn't watched the series in a year. But still...)
I love the idea of Coyote's head knocking on the door of the Pack's ship. For starters it's so odd to get a knock while in flight. Second, how did he knock. Why with his forehead of course...
The trio begin their competition. Bronx is disgusted.
The new Pack is revealed. What was everyone's reaction? The Coyote-Head had laid out the options, but were you at all shocked at the upgrades when you first saw them?
I like the creepy Addams Family moment with Jackal's arm. I like that this Wolf and Dingo are now competitive in strength with Goliath.
I find it interesting that we had Goliath say, "What manner of trickery is this?" instead of "What sorcery is this?" I mean, who were we kidding, right?
Hudson then brings up the Archmage's sorcery. Just a reminder that the Archmage existed for what we knew was coming in Avalon.
I don't know if this was fixed for reairing, but their's a big mistake in this first battle. Goliath spots COYOTE the robot flying off and goes off alone in pursuit. This was supposed to be him spotting just the little head. He goes off after the head, thinking he'll find Xanatos or something. Then the giant Robot steps forward. Would have been a much better reveal.
I love the interaction as the Pack chooses a leader.
Cree is great reading: "Coyote, honey..." and "I find him very attractive." Hyena's attraction to Coyote was a fun running gag. But did it influence her choice of upgrades?
Jackal is grossed out, proving as ever, that he's just a tad saner than his sister. "Well, that's sicker than usual." He sides with Wolf, just for that reason.
Leaving Dingo with the deciding vote.
More animation errors that I hope got corrected eventually: Fox's lips don't move. So suddenly we're hearing her internal monologue.
Note that Broadway actually foils the most crime in their nightly competition. We did that on purpose. To show that was never the point.
Xanatos says, "Clever move." to end an act.
Then we come back, and he's confident saying, "I think I've still got the edge." Of course that line was a literal reuse of the line from "The Edge". We had a lot of so-so animation in this episode. It forced us to cut the show tight enough that we had to add footage. So we reprinted the shot of X&F playing chess and reused the old line to fill the space.
Everytime Hyena's hand folded backwards, Erin would say: "Eww, that's disgusting!"
CONTINUITY: Just as Lex dislikes the Pack, Bronx seems to particularly dislike Coyote. He's always chewing on that bot, forcing Coyote to threaten to "send this puppy into orbit!"
I love Hyena's line: "I wonder if Gargoyles taste like chicken?" Can't help thinking she'd sincerely like to know.
Frank Paur had this idea that when Wolf got angrier, he'd morph even wolfier. But the animation never quite worked on that. It was a great idea, but the transformation doesn't play dramatically, so it just looks like the model changes part way through the fight.
Coyote's demise was heavily influenced by the first Terminator movie. We keep destroying the darn bot, but it just keeps getting up.
Morgan reappears. I was never wild about his "Hospital, Machine Shop or Vet" line. It's okay, but it seemed a bit too flip.
Goliath, like the production staff, had his choice in mind all along. Brooklyn. By now the trio's come around to the same idea, except Brooklyn himself, who suddenly realizes the weight he'll be carrying around. A prelude to "Kingdom", as he says to Goliath, "Be careful. I'm in no hurry to take your place."
(Nice moment in their when Hudson pets Bronx. It has nothing specific to do with anything else, but it's a nice touch.)
Fox & Xanatos make such a cool couple. I love that he doesn't mind losing to her. Happier to have found a true equal.
And I love that chilling, funny ending: "Care to play again?"
Ever wonder about their next game?
Anyway, there's my ramble. Where's yours?
[In preparation for my new ramble for ASK GREG & the DCV, here's my original memo to Story Editor Gary Sperling on Adam Gilad's first draft outline of the episode "Upgrade". Note the date. At the time I wrote this, "Deadly Force" had just recently aired, but the rest of the first season was being saved for early 1995.]
Notes on "Upgrade" Outline...
My big fear is that Brooklyn didn't feel like leader material in this. To our audience he's going to come off as cautious and wimpy throughout most of the episode, with the added problem that he's subject to peer pressure. This is particularly problematic in that Brooklyn has always been defined as the MOST adventurous of our trio. Ultimately, the qualities that will define him as a leader include strategic abilities, common sense, a willingness to sacrifice... and, yes, knowing when to retreat and/or call for help. But if we make the latter quality into Brooklyn's first instinct, it will overshadow the others. And our audience won't buy him as leader. Maybe more important than all of this should be a natural unconscious quality of leadership, which parallel's Broadway and Lexington's roles as followers. When they stop thinking and slip into automatic pilot, Brooklyn naturally seems to give the orders and the others naturally follow.
These guys do work well as a team, don't be afraid to show that. We've got a competitive thing going between them that will tend to screw up their natural teamwork, but if we're going to prove our point, then we need to see moments when they forget to be competitive and just cooperate. In any case, let's not make them infantile. When you define competitiveness think Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer in Top Gun. These are young warriors, not children elbowing each other as they fly.
Let's also avoid setting up non-existent flaws in Lex and Broadway. Things like Broadway being slow to awaken is just not born out in any of our other episodes. They all wake up within a few seconds of each other at sunset.
Having said all this, you'll see below that I gave them less screen time, mostly because it choreographed cleaner, but also because it really put something at stake other than the contest for leader (i.e. the lives of their friends). Plus I've isolated them from everyone that usually provides them with help or advice (Goliath, Hudson, Elisa and even Bronx). So I'm crossing my fingers that what we lose in quantity time, we will make up for in quality.
I'm also concerned that we've Upgraded the Pack, only to make them seem even more incompetent than ever. They've got to feel considerably more dangerous. We need to believe the Gargoyles barely survived this go 'round. The Pack's leadership issues cannot get too far in the way of their success. Ultimately the gargoyles do triumph because their teamwork under Brooklyn defeats a divided Pack. But if the Pack members are just at each others throats through the whole program, they'll never feel like a viable threat. Remember, despite the dangerously unstable personalities involved (including Coyote, but not Dingo), the Pack's fighting style is based on teamwork by definition. Let them play to their strength, that way it'll be even more ironic when the gargoyles defeat them through teamwork driven by sound leadership.
PACK UPGRADE SPECS
What follows may be what you had in mind, but I want to make sure we're all operating off the same page.
WOLF - gets turned into a werewolf. The biggest and most obvious change will be to his head, which will have a canine shape. Like Talon and his mutants, Wolf will be covered with hair all over, his hands will be clawed, and he'll have haunches. He cannot fly, but he can leap far distances. He'll probably have a better sense of smell and hearing, but I want to downplay these last qualities, because I think they can come off as silly. (Let's not make him an object of ridicule to his teammates simply because he's gotten more dog-like. They are all themed off canines. Both Coyote's head and Dingo's helmet will be dog-shaped as well. I would think that Jackal, Hyena and Coyote would all respect the power which came with his choice of Upgrade. Hyena might make an obnoxious comment here or there, but the only one who's really attacking his choice is Dingo -- and obviously it's not for aesthetic reasons.) Wolf will be much stronger than he was, now on a par with Goliath.
JACKAL & HYENA - become Cyborgs. Half human. Half machine. And the machine parts are NOT camouflaged as human. They have built in weapons. Cyborg legs will also allow them to leap far distances. Maybe even built in flight capabilities. And their strength will increase to Gargoyle level. Maybe not as strong as Goliath or Broadway, but equal or above the others.
DINGO - wears full body armor, including a helmet. Sort of like what we thought Xanatos was wearing as Coyote (in "Leader of the Pack") before we found out Coyote was a robot. (Model sheets are available for Coyote if you're unclear.) The focus should be on his armor, not on "weapons". All the weapons are built in. And the armor should be as flexible and powerful as Xanatos' own Gargoyle armor (screen "The Edge"), plus whatever latest innovations were thrown into this design. That means Dingo should be able to fly. Rocket jets in his boots. Or a rocket pack on his back. Probably not as maneuverable or graceful as a Gargoyle, but he can hover, which they can't do. Again, his strength level is now increased. Probably just under Wolf and Goliath range. (Note: Dingo also has less screen time than I'd like to be able to give him here, so we've really got to make his moments of uneasiness about his partners count. One visual clue that I think will help is the fact that Dingo removes his helmet every chance he gets. He subconsciously needs periodic reassurance that the helmet isn't a part of him and that he hasn't in fact relinquished his humanity.)
COYOTE - Although he's still programmed to have a slightly more vengeful version of Xanatos' personality, Coyote doesn't look like Xanatos anymore. What would be the point? He looks like a huge exaggerated version of the original Coyote. Mighty Joe Young may be a little too big, but you get the idea. If Goliath is eight feet tall than Coyote-II is more like ten or eleven, and built like a gorilla. Coyote is definitely stronger than Goliath, and he can fly. Being huge may have it's disadvantages, but not too many. This is the most powerful and sophisticated robot that Xanatos has built yet. It's computer brain (at least part of which should be the damaged head from "Leader") is well-protected in the robot's chest.
PACK ATTACK VEHICLE - This isn't and never was a van. It flies. It submerges underwater. This is super high-tech. I'm not sure if it even has an exhaust pipe. Model sheets exist if you need to see them.
OWEN vs. COYOTE'S HEAD
You can't have Owen. He's a stand-in for Xanatos, and you've already got one of those: the damaged head of Coyote from "Leader".
LEXINGTON'S TRACKING DEVICE vs. FOX
You can't have this device either. I don't want to ever make the gargoyles too high-tech in their crime-fighting. If we give Lex the ability to make one of these here, we're stuck with him having this knowledge and wondering all the time why he doesn't use it over and over. Besides, why would he create a device that tracks, but only tracks when it's inhaling carbon monoxide fumes?
At any rate, the gargoyles may not need the device. They have a secret ally that even they are not aware of: Fox. It's obvious here how Xanatos is manipulating his chess pieces. But Fox doesn't seem to be moving hers in opposition. She's simply counting on them to defeat the Pack. In some subtle way, let her "move" her pieces too. [Note: the method I use below is semi-goofy at best. If you like it you can use it, but feel free to come up with something better.]
Also, please be careful that Xanatos doesn't say anything that might imply that he threw the match. If he wasn't trying his best to win, he wasn't respecting Fox as an opponent.
MONTAGE vs. NO MONTAGE
Sorry. After cuts were made for both S&P and for things that I did not want to reveal, there wasn't anything left. So out it went.
All gargoyles sleep as stone to recharge during the day, which allows them to operate at their peak throughout the night. Hudson's peak may not be what it once was, but he doesn't need extra downtime at night.
1. Night. Bank job being carried out by what's left of the PACK: WOLF, JACKAL, HYENA and DINGO. There's an air of desperation here. They need money because they are on the run. They get to the roof, where their PACK ATTACK VEHICLE is hovering. And where it has attracted the attention of the patrolling gargoyles: BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY and GOLIATH. There is a battle. The Pack is a bit out-classed, but only just. The Pack has the weapons and technology. What they lack is flight capability, brute strength (Wolf is incredibly strong for a human, but no match for Goliath) and leadership (Wolf acts like he's the leader, the others just don't naturally follow him). In contrast, Goliath leads his troops effectively. Give the Pack credit for figuring that out. They agree to take out the leader. And they do. Goliath is injured.
The Pack get away in their vehicle, but without the money. Lex momentarily wants to pursue his hated enemies, but as sirens approach, Brooklyn thinks the priority should be to get Goliath back to the safety of the CLOCK TOWER. He asks Broadway to help him carry Goliath. Neither Lex or Broadway question Brooklyn's leadership at this stage. Nor do any of the three, including Brooklyn, make a point of saying that Brooklyn is in charge. He just says some very common sense things and the others see the sense in it and follow his lead.
2. Meanwhile, the Pack Vehicle flies through the Manhattan Night. Maybe some brief sniping between the members, before there's a knock on the door... which seems odd at this altitude. Almost despite himself, Dingo opens the hatch to reveal COYOTE'S HEAD flying alongside on it's little mini-rocket. It still has half of Xanatos' face, and it asks politely in Xanatos' voice if it can come in. (There's also a model sheet completed on this damaged head. It looks pretty cool if you want the reference.)
3. Back at the Clock Tower near dawn, HUDSON tends to Goliath. It's a bad laser burn, but it'll heal when the sun rises and they turn to stone. But it brings up something that's concerned Hudson for awhile. He hates to even say it, but next time Goliath might not be so lucky. Goliath needs to name a second-in-command. Goliath chooses Hudson, of course. But Hudson declines. Goliath was Hudson's lieutenant and became his successor when it was time for Hudson to step down. Goliath needs to choose one of the trio. But first Goliath must sleep. The trio hear all this. Hudson has intentionally made no attempt to hide the conversation from them. They all straighten-up, leader-like. And the sun rises. Goliath turns to stone still cradled in his comrades arms.
4. Because the sun has risen, the Pack Vehicle dives beneath the surface of the Hudson River (or the East River or the Bay or whatever). It comes to a stop on the bottom and rests.
Inside, the Coyote Head has literally latched itself onto the ships computers. He's lowered a screen and is starting his sales pitch. Tired of being out-classed by the gargoyles? Ready to be as strong as them? To fly like them? Etc.? Well, let me show you what we can do. Is Genetic-Engineering your passion? (He shows footage of TALON in action trashing Goliath.) Or is Cybernetics more your style? (He shows footage of COLDSTONE trashing Goliath.) A little high-tech haberdashery, perhaps? (Footage of XANATOS in his GARGOYLE ARMOR trashing Goliath, with at least one shot of Xanatos with the helmet off.) Or my favorite, Robotics? (Footage of COYOTE trashing Goliath. This obviously doesn't apply to the four humans, but I want to get it in here to hint at Coyote's rebirth as well.)
Obviously, they are all very interested. Dingo goes for the armor and pretty much writes off the rest as horror show. The other three don't state their preferences. Coyote Head: "All made possible by the men and women of XANATOS ENTERPRISES." Where is Xanatos? Occupied at the moment, but happy to be of assistance.
5. At the castle, Xanatos and FOX seem to be playing chess, but we don't get to see the game board or the pieces. Xanatos has made the first move.
6. Super: ONE MONTH LATER. Clock Tower. The trio are just leaving to patrol the city separately and in competition. They've hardly done anything else, each is so intent on being Goliath's second in command. Hudson's in his comfy chair with the t.v. set on, but he's not watching. After the trio leave, he chides Goliath, who has to decide between the three young warriors. Goliath seems strangely reluctant to choose.
Just then ELISA enters. The desk sergeant just received an "anonymous" tip on the Pack's location. S.W.A.T. Teams from three precincts are mobilizing. But Elisa has listened to a recording of the tip and recognized the voice as Xanatos'. She'd like to be there in an unofficial capacity. Goliath agrees. No time to wait for the trio, but the Pack can be tough, so they'll take BRONX. They leave in such a hurry, Hudson doesn't bother to turn off the t.v.
7. An abandoned building scheduled for demolition, which the police have totally surrounded. The S.W.A.T. LEADER talks through a megaphone, giving the Pack a chance to surrender peacefully. There is no response. Tear gas canisters are shot through the windows -- followed by an explosion that practically levels the building. The tear gas couldn't have caused that. The building must have been rigged to blow.
Goliath, Elisa, Hudson and Bronx watch from a nearby rooftop. At first they don't notice the little Coyote Head, which zips around the site like a humming bird looking for food. Then the head spots them and approaches. It tells them that this little display was just designed to attract their attention. If the gargoyles really want to find the Pack, they're going to have to follow the head, which they do.
8. Goliath, Elisa, Hudson and Bronx follow the Head to a construction site. It's the skeletal beginnings of a skyscraper. As soon as they arrive the new ARMORED DINGO flies in. After Dingo, comes the new CYBORG JACKAL and HYENA, followed finally by the new WERE-WOLF. Our heroes are surrounded.
9. Picking up where we left off, we have a fight. The Coyote-Head zips away and with Hudson's blessing Goliath follows it. (He thinks it will lead to the source of the trouble.) Although the Pack works together, there are hints that they are in some competition with each other. Ultimately, the Pack knocks out Hudson, Elisa and Bronx, with Wolf personally taking down Hudson.
Elsewhere in the structure, Goliath catches up to the Head which says that it would like to introduce Goliath to its "better half". A huge shadow looms.
Back with the Pack, where we get a sense of the tension between the members. As Dingo takes off his helmet, hint that he hasn't been able to get over the horrific things that his teammates have had done to their bodies. We also find out they've been fighting over who should lead. They agreed before the fight that whoever took out the biggest gargoyle, would get to be the leader. Wolf took out Hudson, so he feels entitled.
On cue, Goliath is knocked through a brick wall. He falls unconscious at their feet. And then the rest of the wall is knocked down to reveal the new robot COYOTE-II: "Sorry, Wolf. I think my Goliath tops your Hudson."
The Pack are all stunned, but for Hyena it's love at first sight: "Coyote, honey, is that you?" A panel slides open inside Coyote's chest to reveal the Coyote Head literally plugged into the inner workings of this huge machine. No way Wolf is taking orders from a machine. No one ever said Coyote was part of the contest. Wolf is still leader. But Hyena disagrees, she's siding with her new boyfriend. Jackal can't believe his sister has fallen in love with a glorified toaster oven. He's not exactly Wolf's biggest fan, but he's got to go with old furball. They all turn to Dingo to break the tie. Dingo looks at his helmet. He makes it clear that he's not wild about his options: a robot who thinks he's human or a lunatic who gave up his humanity. But he turns to Coyote and says, "O.K. boss, what's our next move?"
10. Back at the Clock Tower, the trio are each getting back after a night of competitively patrolling the city alone. Lex prevented two muggings. Brooklyn prevented one mugging and scared off a burglar. Broadway stopped three muggings and an armed robbery: "Just have to know where to look," he says proudly. Then they realize that the tower is empty. Even Bronx is gone. And if Hudson and Goliath lugged Bronx along with them it must have been trouble.
11. Cut to the interior of some kind of hanger for the Pack Attack Vehicle. We do not get an exterior to show us where we are, but we do hear a train go by every minute or so. Goliath, Hudson, Bronx and Elisa are in a glass chamber filled with a colored gas that keeps them unconscious. Wolf isn't at all pleased about waiting around. How is sitting on their hands going to help them find the other gargoyles? But Coyote has a plan. It's midnight now. At 4:30 am they'll release Bronx from the chamber. He'll almost definitely lead them straight to the Gargoyle's Home Base. And he should get there just before sunrise, allowing the Pack to arrive just after sunrise and smash the remaining gargoyles into gravel.
12. In Xanatos' office, he and Fox are still playing chess. Xanatos: "You're in check, my dear."
13. The trio are still waiting for Goliath et al at the clock tower. It's 3 A.M. and they are very worried. It's only a couple hours 'til sunrise. And no sign of Elisa either. And the tension isn't doing wonders for their dispositions. They argue over what to do. The television gives them a clue when a report comes in about the bombing at the abandoned building. The report mentions that the fire was contained because the police were already on the scene, having received a false tip that those escaped felons (and former television stars) known as the Pack were there. They're about to head out to investigate, when they hear "The following is a paid commercial message." Lex recognizes the voice as Fox's. Brooklyn didn't think Fox was still in the Pack. But the commercial continues. "Tired of walking up Lexington Avenue? Sick of taking the bus down Broadway? Fed up with driving your car to Brooklyn? Then take the subway!" And an image appears on the screen of a place where multiple tracks criss-cross above ground. Well, that can't be a coincidence. One of them recognizes the location, he's flown over it. But is this a tip or a trap? Well, what choice do they have? Off they go.
14. Trio arrive at Train crossing. Again, there are multiple tracks crossing in multiple directions, and every minute or so, another train rushes by at high speed. They find a large metal shack, that's supposed to house train cars or something, but is acting as a hangar for the Pack Vehicle instead. They sneak in and get a look at the upgraded Pack and their sleeping friends. Broadway and Lexington are all for mounting an immediate attack. Brooklyn is reluctant. Just look at the size of Coyote, who's in the middle of putting a tracking device on Bronx. They need help to defeat these guys. But where are they going to get help? From Goliath and the rest. Our priority should be freeing them. Both Broadway and Lex try to peer pressure him. Maybe he's afraid to fight without Goliath, but they're not. But Brooklyn isn't biting. He's not scared, and he's also not stupid. They need a plan.
A little bit later, Brooklyn makes his presence known and then takes off as a decoy. Coyote figures as much, but Wolf and Jackal won't listen to reason and take off after him. And right after they leave, the power goes out inside the hanger, thanks to Lex. Dingo reaches for his helmet, but it's not there. Broadway has it and throws it with all his might at the sleep chamber. The helmet smashes a hole in the chamber, allowing the gas to pour out. But meanwhile things don't look good for the trio. Coyote slams into Broadway carrying them both outside. Hyena and Dingo pursue Lex.
So outside the battle continues amid the backdrop of unpredictable and speeding trains shooting past on random tracks. Eventually, however, Brooklyn's delaying tactic pays off. The others have been given the opportunity to recover from the sleep chamber. They join the fight, and the tide of the battle turns. The Pack is defeated. GARY, LET'S DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PACK AT THE END OF THIS SHOW.
15. Back at the clock tower, Goliath realizes that tonight's events only prove what Hudson has been saying all along. He must choose a second in command. He's had a choice in mind for weeks, but has been reluctant to reveal it, because he was afraid that it would drive a wedge between the trio. But tonight they worked together and saved the clan. He has to trust that they are mature enough to handle this. He chooses Brooklyn. (This without being aware of who spear-headed tonight's success.) The others are genuinely happy for Brooklyn. He proved himself to them. They take their places outside and Brooklyn looks across the city. A siren wails. He shakes his head and tells Goliath to be careful. He's in no hurry to take his place. They turn to stone.
16. Dawn. Fox says checkmate, and we reveal the board with its pieces based on our characters. She knows her husband doesn't like to lose. Is he upset? Of course not, he's happy to have an opponent to match his skill. Made the game more fun. "Care to play again?" FADE OUT.
Is any of the trio alive in 2198? How about the trio¡¯s children?
You mean not counting Brooklyn who TimeDanced there? No.
I noticed that Lex and BW seem to fight very well together starting from about the time Brook became second-in-command on through "The Journey".
1) Was that intentional or a) just a fluke or b) am I reading to much into something that isn't really there?
2) If the first is true is it because a) they really also fought better together or b) maybe they were a little closer than Brook is with them or c) is it more to illustrate how Brook started to feel isolated.
1. I think you're reading too much into something that was ALREADY there. All three of them (or any two) fight well together. That at least won't change as they all grow.
Let me make something clear. I've stated that (especially with "The Journey" and my plans for "TimeDancer") that the old Three Musketeers go everywhere together Trio would become a thing of the past. That they would grow as gargoyles into adults and each find their own lives.
But let's not overstate this. The three of them will always be best friends. All three of them. Whatever, wherever and whenever life takes them, they are brothers. Nothing will ever separate them, save Death. And even that is debatable.
in the Wyvern years, was the Trio kinda outcasts or loners of their generation? it seemed to me that they generally just stuck together with Bronx and didn't interact much with their siblings. am i right about this or did we just not really see their relationships with their siblings due to lack of time?
Mostly the latter. I certainly wouldn't call them outcasts. I just think they were best friends.
What is the signifigance of the clones names? The only name I recognise is Hollywood. Why did Demona choose them?
Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank are all part of the Greater Los Angeles Area. Demona chose those names to spoof what she views as the idiotic name choices that the trio and Hudson chose for themselves.
In "Deadly Force", the trio describe "Showdown" as a "new movie", but it's a black-and-white film. Were the trio using the word "new" in a comparative sense (the same way that Lexington described Shakespeare as a "new writer" in "Enter Macbeth"), or was it genuinely a recent film that happened to be shot in black-and-white rather than color?
It was either the latter or a restored rerelease of an old film. Either way, it was new to them.
Hey, Todd, I hope you'll post a Gathering Diary here. I'd like to read it.
I was reading your MEMO about "The Silver Falcon." fro the archives...
I got to thinking... This type of epidode wouldn't have worked with Brooklyn or even Lexington... these type of characters almost need to have other gargoyles around. You couldn't ahve a hole epidose of only Brooklyn or only Lexington. Lexington and brooklyn don't have human connections like Broadway. He shot Elisa. This brought them a bit closer than the others.
Do you agree or dissagree?
I agree that Broadway shooting Elisa brought the two of them closer together. (Though they were already close.)
But otherwise, I disagree. Either Brooklyn or Lex could carry an episode on their own. I think we more or less proved that with Temptation and Thrill of the Hunt.
I know other characters were involved. But Lex and Brooklyn each carried those shows.
before the Wyvern Massacre did the Trio have any love interest among their peers? any "girlfriends" or whatever gargoyles have? esspecially Brooklyn, was Maggie his first crush or has we just seen the last two of a series of Brooklyn crushes?
I'm not telling at this time.
befor ethe Wyvern massacre, did the trio often seem to get in touble? when Goliath approached them in the courtyard and said, "you three! down to the rookery until i return..." it seemed as if this wasn't the first time they had caused trouble or at least not the first time Goliath had yelled at them... were they troublemakers of a sort among the clan?
They got into their fair share.
Why did you send Brooklyn on a forty-year journey? Why not Broadway or Lexington?
On at least one level, because that's how it happened. That is, the characters seem to tell me what happens to them next. It just seems right.
But basically, I felt Brooklyn needed to get away, break out. This was symbollically the most extreme way. BW and Lex don't need to leave.
in "Awakening" we see Bronx playing with the trio. was Bronx more often with the trio then other gargs or was he just playing with them that night? what i mean is, was Bronx more a pet to the trio or had more of a connection with them than other members of the clan?
you said that Iago decieved Othello and Desdemona in 993 and that he was banished after that, but he came out of his banishment in 994, in time for the massacre. is all that right?
why was it such a short banishment?
how do gargoyles decide on how long to banish a clan member?
does the whole clan decide the banishment time/punishment or just the leader?
was Goliath in effect banishing the trio but only lightly when he sent them to the rookery or was that a common punishment for young gargs?
That's basically right.
The banishment was for a year, which isn't that short considering he didn't kill anyone. He was just causing trouble. (Whispering in Othello's ear, causing Othello to act like a jerk isn't that big a crime, I guess.) Also, Iago may have done something to get back in everyone's good graces. At least begrudgingly.
The leader makes the final decision.
He wasn't literally banishing them. Sort of telling them to sit in the corner. It was not an uncommon punishment. But it was mostly done just to temporarily difuse things while he was gone for what he assumed would be a short errand.
When did Lexington and Brooklyn learn how to read? Was it before or after the thousand-year-sleep?
Lex before. Brooklyn immediately after. At least in my mind.
There are several types of Characters on the show.
Hudson is like a grandfather if you know what i mean.
Goliath is the typical parent.
The trio are the teens.
My question: there is no gargoyle around the early to mid twenties range (something like Beth Maza.) Was there ever a problem not having this type of influence?
Did you give some of the qualities that a character of this age group my have to other people?
Well, the Trio are in their late teens. (And Beth was in her early twenties.) So I'm not sure if the distinction you're suggesting isn't a heck of a lot subtler than you're indicating.
Greg, in a reply to matt's question you said Boudicca is older than Bronx. But how could that be since Bronx was with the rest of the clan in 994 A.D. and I'm guessing Boudicca is a beast which hatched with the rest of the garg eggs that were taken to Avalon? How could Boudicca be older than Bronx if this is true? I would not think that is should have to do with anything about how time passes more slowly on Avalon either, because logically Bronx would still be older or about the same age even though he was stone for a 1000 years.
Boudicca is biologically older than Bronx. Bronx is chronologically older than Boudicca.
Boudicca is the same biological age as Angela, who is approximately the same biological age as the Trio. (Though CHRONOLOGICALLY, the Trio is MUCH older.)
Bronx is chronologically twenty years younger than the Trio. Biologically ten years younger. Which makes him approximately ten biological years younger than Boudicca.
oh, and also in the age of characters list you said that Yama is 29 and Sora is 19. their mates, and i thought there were never mates from different generations, Broadway and Angela being the exception. i figured that gargs mated among their rookery siblings because that way they wouldn't find a mate in a close (i.e. brother and sister) biological relative. so is it common for gargs to mate between generations? or are Broadway/Angela and Yama/Sora very different from the norm?
Broadway and Angela are a very unusual case for OBVIOUS reasons. (He was asleep for 1000 years. She grew up on Avalon. As a result they are nearly the exact same age biologically.)
Yama and Sora are atypical. But their love is not unheard of.
I don't ever recall saying that gargs from separate generations couldn't or wouldn't mate. It's just not particularly common.
i was surprised that you said that had the Wyvern massacre not happened Brooklyn would probably still have been chosen as a future leader of the clan. i guess i always thought that Goliath chose Brooklyn out of lack of other options, that he was the best among the trio, i suppose his leadership qualities would've shown up in any event, huh?
But I'm not big on hypotheticals.
when the clan moves into the clocktower, the clock doesn't work and later on it does, i'm assuming because Lex fixed it like he said he could. what did the people of New York think when suddenly the clock was working again, wouldn't someone go up there to investigate at least?
i realize its another stupid question, but i figured i'd ask anyway...
Lex was constantly fixing the clock. It was constantly breaking down. (You'll notice that sometimes the time on the face made sense. Sometimes it made no sense.) Before Lex, workmen did the same thing but had largely given up due to municipal budget cuts. No one noticed that it continued to be inconsistent.
in "Awakening Pt 1" we see, briefly, another gargoyle with Lexington's wing structure. cosidering how rare it is, would it be safe to assume that the gargoyle was a close relative biologically to Lex, like his father or older brother? was that gargoyle one of these?
Maybe. Though I never said it was rare. Just rarer.
Okay, maybe you won't reveal Lex's mate, but will you tell us if he has any childrens>?
Sure, all the eggs of certain generations would be children to every member of the Clan including Lex.
QUIT THINKING LIKE A HUMAN!
Evidentally, I went out of town in late June / early July of 1993. My very capable and talented Development Associate Paul Lacy was holding down the fort.
Walt Disney TV Animation Japan had been asking for a more creative role in the division. Gargoyles would represent a new opportunity for them. (Something that I believe Roy Sato could comment on more directly.) Paul wrote up some character descriptions for Goliath and the Trio to get them started. This document, as far as I can tell, is the first one in which Brooklyn and Lex were assigned the basic personalities that they'd wind up with. Previous to this, the two characters had always been assigned each others traits. So I think we can credit Paul (or his confusion, at least) with giving us the Brooklyn and Lex we now know and love.
Also by this time, we had moved away from a female Broadway. One of my bosses, Bruce Cranston, still raised the suggestion that we go back. But I believe my other boss, Gary Krisel (and Kenner) wanted as many males in the group as possible.
July 2, 1993
Gary wants to give Tokunaga, the head of the Disney Studio in Japan, a shot at showing us what they can do design-wise with the GARGOYLES, so he wants us to send them descriptions of GOLIATH, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY. The descriptions need to be brief and put in general terms to allow them room to be creative.
I've enclosed my pass at these descriptions for your changes. Although I remember the "types" we were thinking of for Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway, I don't remember who was assigned which attribute. Bruce asked about making one of the kids a female, should we open that up to the Japanese as an option?
Gary and Bruce looked at these today and I incorporated their changes. We need to get these to Lenora Hume early Tuesday so she can fax them to Japan.
Hope you had a great trip. See you on Tuesday.
And here's Paul's memo to the Japanese Studio.
GARGOYLE DESCRIPTIONS (Lacy 7/2/93)
Below are general descriptions of the look and feel of GOLIATH and the three teen-aged Gargoyles, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY.
The Gargoyle-master. Physically imposing, muscular. At least a head taller than an average human. Weighing approximately 500 pounds, Goliath is solidly built. Although he possesses many human-like features, Goliath's gargoyle features set him apart from man. When angered he resembles a raging beast. When relaxed there is a gentle nobility to his appearance ... in a strange, rugged way, he's handsome. Goliath's wings enable him to glide and, as such, must be big enough to support his weight. They are not simply attached to his back. Rather, they are an integral part of his skeletal and muscular structure, as organic to him as arms and legs are to humans. When sitting, Goliath's wings drape around him like a cape. When spread wide, they act as a backdrop that frames his body.
BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON AND BROADWAY
As adolescent gargoyles, they're awkward and not as physically developed as Goliath. To a human, however, they're still imposing and beastly. Although the three are part of the same species, each one is physically different enough to establish their individuality.
BROOKLYN: If there's a leader of the group, it's Brooklyn. He's the most physically fit of the group and is the one who most aspires to be a gargoyle warrior like Goliath. In the modern world Brooklyn wants to be "cool" and stylish, following all the current trends.
LEXINGTON: The smallest of the group. He's not as muscular as his pals, though he still is powerful. Lexington natural resting position is more a squat than the other two. Lexington is fascinated by gadgets: in medieval times it's catapults and siege engines. In modern times it's airplanes, traffic lights, video games, etc.
BROADWAY: The chubby one, Broadway's also bigger than the other two. Despite his fat, he has well defined muscles like the other gargoyles. Broadway is happy go-lucky, always looking for a good time.
Some of different wing types for these three characters include sprung from the back (like Goliath) for gliding, attached to the back but too small to be of any use, draped from the arm (like a bat), or non-existent.
Here we go again...
1) Will Goliath and Elisa ever have kids?
2) Will Brooklyn and Katana have kids in the 2008 rookery?
3) Will Lexington?
1, 2, and 3. They will be parents to all the children of the clan.
i thought i'd share a interesting story:
i know alot of people write in here and in other sites, etc. about how Angela should have ended up with Brooklyn and not Broadway. Greg, you are so right in your reasons why Broadway and Angela ended up together and i'm happy to say that i knew they would, but the funny thing is why i believed that they'd end up together. when Angela first joined the cast i figured that she'd end up with one of the trio (although i did think there was something between her and Gabriel, but thats another story). of course, i wanted to know which one she would end up with so i began to think about these four characters. my analysis, correct, but flawed, was that Lex was too small in stature, Brook had a beak, so kissing was very hard to do, so it had to be Broadway. until i started posting here i didn't know that kissing wasn't a garg custom, afterall, Coldstone and Coldfire kissed in cyberspace, Elisa kissed Goliath, and Angela kissed all three of the trio on the cheek and later Broadway on the mouth. i thought, how can Brook kiss Angela with that beak! i know its stupid and i really should have learned that there were other factors but i guess i couldn't get past garg appearences, i'm such a human...
Yes, such a human. Angela's choice (if you want to call it that) had little to do with beaks or height or weight. It was the garg inside.
Re your comment on changing Broadway's character from female to male:
Well, maybe it was cowardice, but I'm certain that it was a good thing for Angela that you did. She wouldn't have been able to have had a S&P-approved relationship with Broadway otherwise, after all :)
Now, I can't really imagine it any other way.
More of a comment than a question:
I think I know why everyone thinks that you were hinting at Angela-Brooklyn rather than Angela-Broadway.
Brooklyn, as you've noticed, is a popular character. He's my personal favorite. People recognize him as the member of the trio most oriented toward romance. He has the instances of Maggie and maybe even Demona (TEMPTATION), while Broad and Lex don't have any. Some viewers even consider him the "leader" of the trio, (I'd myself never thought the trio had a "leader" to itself, but some people have...) and traditionally, the leader gets the girl. You also have several instances where Brooklyn patrols with Angela and no other members of the trio, which could be interpreted as further indication that since they are literally "together" (as in in the same place) they are figuratively "together" (as in a couple.)
*Shrugs* Just my take.
Well, Brook is CLEARLY the leader of the Trio. Particularly after Goliath makes him second in command of the clan.
Demona in Temptation is pushing it. (Sorry, Christine.) But there are two indications of Brook falling hard for a dame: Maggie and Angela. Both crushes, based on nothing else but physical appearance and apparent availability.
And I don't think we put Angela with Brooklyn anymore often than we put her with the other two. People saw what they want to see.
But at any rate, I'm not surprised people saw it going that way. Like I've said, it's the obvious choice. We just didn't feel it was the right choice. The characters told us different.
by the time of "The Journey" does Demona know about Broadway and Angela being a couple? if not, when does she find out?
1)Just out of plain curiosity, why did Angela have the get "involved" with any one of trio? Did you ever consider just having her go with nobody? She just seemed to me as somone who was more interested in having family relationships with her parents versus a romantic one.
2)This may answer my first question, but in regards to having Angela go with Broadway, did you do it to set a good example for children? I mean,Broadway didn't exactly have the charm of a knight in shinning armor,and he was also fat which would have taught kids that "looks are not important,it's what's inside" So again,it makes sence and I was just wondering if that's why you decided to do it.Thank You!
1. She didn't "have to" (I assumed you meant "have to" and not "have the"). But she seemed to me to be a young blossoming woman-garg, who might eventually be interested in both familial and romantic ties.
2. I wasn't unaware of potential lessons, I guess. But the answer is no. We did it because it seemed right. Gary Sperling and I sat down while working on "Turf". I felt that it was important that Turf not reveal a choice for Angela, but rather her independence. But I also felt it was important for us to know who (if anyone) she was going to wind up with. Brooklyn was in many ways an obvious choice, but as we discussed it, it soon became clear that they were a bad match. That she was just another pretty face for Brooklyn to get a crush on. But that Broadway, the sensitive, intuitive soul, would appeal to something deep inside her. And she to him, as well.
Silly hypothetical question.
What do you suppose Broadway and Angela were thinking when Othello suggested that he and Desdemona keep possession of their (Broadways and Angela's) bodies? Assuming they could hear them the way Brooklyn could Iago.
They were probably SCREAMING!!
What would you think?
What made you decide to make Broadway male, when you'd originally had him a female? I personally think it works better this way, but I'm curious.
We were afraid to have a female character who loved to eat and was overweight. We were afraid that various groups with all sorts of agendas would attack the show, missing the forest for the trees.
"Why are the only two female gargoyles in the show evil and/or fat?"
Plus, we were constantly being told that the series would only appeal to boys. And that boys don't like female characters. Both of these notions are dopey. Particularly the second one. (Can you say "Lara Croft".) But if someone hammers you with a notion often enough, it's hard not to subscribe to it a bit.
I'm not proud of our cowardice, but I think Broadway became a great character, and now I wouldn't go back and change for the world.
on several occasions throughout the series the trio and Hudson mentioned or went to various movies, including Bambi, Star Wars, and all the cop movies Broadway watched. what were their favirote movies? also, when the trio went to see "Bambi" they had been in New York less than six months, i can't believe with all the movies they had never seen, they would have seen "Bambi" at least twice as evidenced by the line, "I don't remember any explosions in Bambi". it was funny but as an 18 year old male myself, i can't imagine why "Bambi" would hold such interest to them.
I've seen Bambi many times. It's pretty cool. Have you seen it recently.
Hudson's favorite show is Celebrity Hockey. His favorite cartoon character is Donald Duck.
They all used to be big fans of The Pack. But times change.
in "the cage" when the trio returned from a concert in the park what concert was it? i heard it was the "smashing pumpkins".
Who might it have been in late 1995?
Do the trio have any blood-siblings on Avalon>
what is Goliath's reaction to Broadway and Angela's relationship? what is Demona's?
I think he's pleased.
Demona's probably conflicted. I don't think she likes Broadway, simply because he's alligned against her. But I don't think she's rooting for her daughter to be alone either.
I asked this question before and you responded
"I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it."
So now I'm resubmitting it:In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?
I think Goliath and Demona mated a tad young. A few of the Trios contemporaries may have mated at the time of the massacre, but most would not have.
On my last question you repost: Define "love". Well, I know that Brooklyn didn´t really love Angela from our point of view. But from his point of view, he is in love, and so, I think, he would tell angela, that he is. So, will he ever?
They might have a conversation some day. But not until after the TimeDance, when it's WAY moot.
Some Trio questions:
1.: Will Brooklyn ever tell Angela that he loved her? (In Goliath Chronicals, he never did, and that was one of the things that gets the show down)
2.: Ummh... how could I say? Ok, let´s try it with this: Will Lex ever step away from the right way? (hope you understand:))
3.: In the old episodes, Broadway has that nasty comic image. In your future plans, would he get more seriously?
1. Define "loved".
2. I understand, but you don't really expect me to answer that do you?
One piece of rambling/thoughts that I've had on Broadway for a while, and finally remembered to post here.
You've mentioned in the past about Broadway being a gentle soul at heart and the most perceptive of the trio (which was a major factor in he being the one who wound up with Angela). One thing that's occurred to me is that Puck must have noticed that, given how he handled Broadway in "Future Tense".
In "Future Tense", Brooklyn and Lexington are both extremely bitter at Goliath for going away for forty years (Lexington, in fact, turns out to be worse than bitter, and I got the impression that Goliath's long absence was a major factor in his turning evil). Broadway, however, welcomes Goliath back gladly, saying that what's important is that he's returned, and mentions that he never gave up hope that Goliath would come back someday. That definitely stood out all the more in contrast to Brooklyn and Lexington's attitude.
Also, Broadway definitely got the most moving death scene in the entire episode ("Yes, the sun. Can't you see it, Goliath? It's beautiful."). I don't consider that just an accident, either. Puck may not be omniscient (definitely not in light of his having to hurriedly invent an explanation for Thailog's absence when he found out from Goliath that Thailog and Demona had been mates), but he's clearly got a good handle on Broadway's character, I'd say.
Yep. Puck and me and Michael Reaves, anyway.
you've said that lex was pursueing angela mainly because his brothers were and lex is the only trio member without a known future mate, so is lex gay? are there gay gargoyles?
sorry if you find this question offensive, im just wondering
I don't find the question offensive at all. But I also don't want to answer it at this time. I've given away Brooklyn's mate, so I want to keep people guessing about Lex as much as possible.
And yes, there are gay gargoyles.
did Brooklyn have some sort of attraction to Demona in temptation?
why is brooklyn so damn horny? (no pun intended)
Maybe a bit. But I wouldn't take it too far. (Though I know others have.)
Why is any teen-age male so damn horny?
Written by Steve Perry. Story Edited by Michael Reaves.
It's really just a coincidence that we watched this so close to Halloween (11-2-00). I wasn't trying for that. This was just the next episode in the sequence. Still, when I mentioned before we started that this was the Halloween episode of Gargoyles, the kids got very excited. Erin pointed at the framed cell we have in our bedroom which depicts Goliath and La Belle Elisa dancing. She remembered that it came from the episode we were about to watch. Benny then commented that Elisa and Goliath are going to get married. Erin, who has a clearer memory of the last time we completed the 66 episode sequence corrected him. But I said something cryptic, like you never know. Erin said I needed to make more episodes so that we could find out. From her mouth to God's ears.
In general, the kids were very verbal during this episode, or at least Erin was. Benny started out verbal, but fell asleep with his mom rubbing his tummy somewhere during Act One.
In the opener, a classic scene I think, when he first saw Xanatos and Fox together he said: "That was you, Erin. I was him." in reference to the Fox and Xanatos costumes they wore to the Gathering 2000's masquerade.
Erin really bought into the tension of the episode. And it is very tense. Some terrific pacing to this. She remembered this one with much greater clarity than most. "Uh oh. That's not just any necklace." Etc. Personally, I just love Xanatos' pragmatic proposal. The truth is X should have already known that he was truly in love with Fox. I've just done some research into sentencing while working on and reworking my Gargoyle timeline. Fox & Wolf each received a 16 month sentence for briefly holding that model hostage in "Thrill of the Hunt". They had the opportunity to be parolled after eight months. They were rejected. Instead of waiting a mere eight more months for them to be released free and clear, an impatient Xanatos sets up the events in "Leader of the Pack". Is that a man in love or what? Nevertheless, we get his whole "We're genetically compatible and have the same goals" speech. She asks about love, and he feels himself largely incapable of the emotion. He thinks he's too amoral for that. "I think we love each other as much as two people like us can." (Or something like that. I'm approximating all these quotations.) It's fun.
Then comes the sequence in Mr. Jaffe's store. Erin is still very tense: "Uh oh, that's Fox. She's wearing the necklace." and "She wants to stop it [the necklace] with one arm. But she doesn't want to with the other." Here, Erin's hit right on Fox's internal conflict. Part of her is fighting the Eye, but part of her wants to surrender to its power. When X first confronts her in her bedroom, and when the Werefox emerges and attacks, it doesn't shred him. It throws him down on the bed. There's some powerful primal energy swirling 'round that room. Lucky thing Owen is there, or I'm not sure Xanatos escapes with his dignity intact.
Xanatos takes note and activates Plan A, which will be followed by B and C. And a makeshift D. It becomes almost a parody of all his contingencies and "Xanatos Tags" from previous episodes. For once, he's out of control. And he can't bear to admit it. He pretends (even to himself) that he just needs to recover the valuable Eye of Odin, when what he obviously really wants is to save Fox. "...I'd never have just given it away. Ah, well, spilled milk." (I always thought that was a great and yet feeble cover for his real feelings.)
Speaking of the Eye, how many knew back when it was intro'd in "The Edge" that it would be so important? As I think I've mentioned, the Eye was actually the creation of Disney Interactive which was working on a GARGOYLES VIDEO GAME at the time. They told us about the Eye, and I loved the idea and decided to incorporate it into the show. Unfortunately, we didn't use their design, which had this great crow/raven theme to it, appropriate to Odin. Instead, our design always looked vaguely Egyptian to me. I can't remember, but I think that maybe they're design wasn't ready when we needed to complete our model for "The Edge". Or it might have been poor communication. The Eye was designed at Walt Disney Animation - Japan. At any rate, we knew from the gamer folk that the Eye had metamorphic powers. But I wanted to be more specific. Yes, it would grant power, but it had to grant power that suited the legend of Odin's Eye. The Eye traditionally provided Mimir with the gift of sight. That easily translated to "insight" for me. Which is a kind of power in its own right. The Eye in the Gargoyles Universe would externalize and amplify a major trait of the wearer. And, yes, even then I had plans to eventually intro Odin himself and have him stick the thing back in his empty socket.
I think that shot from inside the elevator shaft when Fox smashes her way in is very cool.
Owen with an Elvis tribute: "Fox has left the building."
--The Eye of Odin, of course.
--Mr. Jaffe's poor grocery store.
--X's commando squad (including Bruno) is at the ready, yet still unprepared for the Werefox's fury.
--Since "The Mirror", Goliath is more open about his growing feelings for Elisa. She again defuses things by turning his concerns for her into a more objective statement about friendship.
--Goliath is back in the library. This time studying Werewolves. The information won't be useful, but isn't that just like him?
--Elisa immediately jumping to the conclusion that the were-thing is another of Xanatos' mutated victims like her brother.
HALLOWEEN - The trio are very excited to be able to stroll into the open. "No one'll know who we are." Better yet, "No one will know WHAT we are." The taste of conformity they got in "The Mirror" has opened a window on their need to be a part of something larger than the clan.
Another cool visual: Fox and Goliath circling each other, with Fox on all fours.
I love when Goliath tries to reason with Fox. "If Xanatos is your enemy, then believe me, WE are your friends." How little he knows. The Werefox immediately attacks him. Still conflicted. Throughout the story, Fox fights, but the Eye reasserts.
Time for Plan C. But Owen has noticed the flaw in Xanatos' usually stellar power of contingency. X claims that all he cares about is the Eye. But he's only setting things up so that the gargs will get the eye. Subconsciously, all he wants is Fox. But we have Goliath arrive and interrupt just at that moment so that neither X or the audience has time to focus on the contradicition.
X breaks down. Appeals to Goliath. He's out of control. Up to a point. ("Old habits die hard -- he still has the forsight to plant a bug on Goliath ala "Awakening, Part Three".
Gotta love Goliath's line: "Not a good night for you." It's great as a writer when you can legitimately turn the tables and give Goliath a Xanatos line.
Broadway REALLY wanted to dress up as a Detective. So he's got a new trenchcoat and hat. Brooklyn, ever the swashbuckler, is a pirate. And Lex... hmm... what should we make Lex. We settled on a pilot, in keeping with his helicopter prowess, I guess. But it was never too clear what Lex would or should be, and I can't help thinking that Lex had trouble deciding on a costume too.
Of course, Goliath doesn't wear a costume.
Vinnie has a line here. Though officially, it's not Vinnie's first appearance, this one line of Jeff Bennett spoken dialogue "A costume over a costume." is the obvious inspiration for all that followed with the Vinster.
And I love Keith as that witch saying "That is a great, great costume." What a great, great line reading.
BEAUTY & THE BEAST. Finally, we get to hit the nail on the head. A moment so romantic (in a very romantic episode) that even the characters take note. Elisa lets her self go for a moment. Goliath just is. The kids are happy for them.
But "Things are not always as they seem". Goliath breaks the moment by attacking a guy in a werewolf costume.
Note: That Goliath now refers to Manhattan as "My castle, my city." A year earlier (more or less) he was calling it Xanatos' city. I love the notion that Goliath sees hope in Xanatos LOVING someone. And of course, he's right. Xanatos' love for Fox (and later Alex) will result in Goliath getting the castle back. Not war, but love.
Brooklyn and Lex finally get to eat pretzyls. Remember that in Awakening, Broadway ate them all. Meanwhile Broadway eat's a hot dog and BELCHES MIGHTILY. This was really more about all of us indulging ourselves in low humor. We put the burp into the script. Bill Fagerbakke burped loudly. But our sound effects guy Paca Thomas, put in the burp to end all burps.
--Lex gets very intense (briefly) and wants to go after FOX. He still hates anything or anyone connected to his Pack experience.
--The return of Brendan & Margot.
Gotta love Elisa's costume. Holster for a garter belt. Very sexy. Solved our nudity problem with Fox too. I'm amazed we got away with that.
In a larger sense, I'm amazed we got away with the entire episode. I was very nervous that the notion of X and Fox getting engaged would be rejected. But the BIG BOSSES didn't focus on the fact that the engagement might lead to marriage. And fortunately, they weren't paying attention when that engagement led to marriage, pregnancy and a kid. I don't think they would have allowed it.
I could have done without Broadway eating his hat.
Fox's internal conflict is visualized when she sees Elisa as herself and attacks to silence that human voice inside her once and for all.
When, in slow motion, Goliath intercepts Fox and saves Elisa (who's usually fairly self-sufficient) it may be the purest moment of Hero saving damsel we have in the series. The dress helps of course.
A little HIGHLANDER inspiration here with Fox and the exploding sign.
I love that Owen's right there with the helicopter.
X is still trying to interpret things to suit his old (and dated) world view. He thinks Goliath is trading the Eye for Fox, which of course he wasn't. Goliath doesn't think that way.
"Now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love a weakness."
"You've never looked more heroic."
"A momentary lapse, I assure you."
All great lines.
Let's go home.
And Owen, who signed on BECAUSE Fox and Xanatos were so interesting to the Puck, SMILES.
And now a word about the episode from Erin Sydney Weisman (she typed this herself):
I am most interested in this episode. And the episode I watched was a spooky episode. And I liked the episode, because it was a very enchanting episode.
In response to my last question,(IE: Why did Lex create a business) you responded "because it was there".
Are you saying that the business Lex "creates" isn't created at all,but commandeered?
Was the business given to him by a still unknown (to us) character?
No. He saw a nitch and filled it. With his partner.
(But mostly I was being a smart-ass.)
I'm just curious to know how Lex, Brook and Broadway became friends.
They're brothers basically. They grew up together.
Dear Mr Weisman,
I'd just like to congratulate you on the Angela//Broadway relationship. What with Brooklyn being my favourite character, at first I wanted to see him win Angela's affections. However, you've opened up some very interesting possibilities (jealousy on the part of both Brooklyn and Broadway). However, how (if at all) did you plan to involve Lexington in such a story? After all, he, like Brooklyn, could be considered a lonely heart now.
Lex would no longer be part of the Angela "hunt". For that matter, neither would Brooklyn. Both of these guys would have to go out and find love on their own. Separately.
I herd that in the future Angela and Broadway would have
kids.Just how meny kids will they have.
I'm well aware that this is a stupid question, but will Broadway ever loose any weight? I mean, he's a great character, I love him to death, but I think people sometimes can't take him seriously 'cause of his weight.
He won't lose weight. But he may get taller and the weight may distribute a bit differently... (See "Future Tense")
But he'll NEVER be svelt. Not as long as I'm in charge.
And if people can't take him seriously because of his shape, then they have a serious problem with appearances. And they DON'T get the show.
How old are Brooklyn , Broadway and Lex and how did you create their characters ?
In 1994, they were 1036 years old. But the human equivalent of 18. How we created them is a long story, I suggest you look through the "Original Development File" archive here at Ask Greg, and if you still have questions come back and ask 'em.
This is going to sound amazingly retarded but are Coldstone and Broadway related? I ask this because the two have similar skin tones, the unique 'fanned' ears, and Coldstone's hair is white like Broadway's father, Hudson (assuming Hudson's hair has always been white). Hudson supposedly has a child from Goliath's generation, so that fits with Coldstone. Spurious evidence perhaps, but nothing ventured nothing gained. Feel free to hand me the dunce's cap. <:(
God, I need sleep.
They may be related -- they're from the same clan after all, but they aren't biological brothers if that's what you are asking.
One more question comming up from the archives:
In an message, "Puck 40" told you some of his favorite episodes. Then he says something like "I hate Broadway, but in Future Tense, he was fantastic", or so.
Then, in your awnser, you wrote "What, you hate Broadway?".
Well, it may surprise you, but there are MANNY people, that really HATE Broadway!!! Well, I could live with the charakter, but sometimes, he is just so dumb and stupid...wooah! Then it is really hard to like him.
He is the last "Comic remained person" in Gargoyles, I think, cause he allways done the wrong thing, like in "Deadly force".
And then the thing with Angela... some are really expecting that Brooklyn would be her mate, but then he choses Broadway, and some people I know, are sitting with a confused look in front of theyr tv, saying "WHAT??".
But I won´t tell to much, here comes my question:
What did you like on Broadway, and what did you hate on him? It would be nice, to see what you are thinking about him. I hope, that you could get some good words for him.
I don't hate anything about him. And I'll all but guarantee I've given him more thought than you. I also don't think he's stupid. He was immature when we first met him, but he's arguably matured more than almost any other character. The hard way. He's sensitive. Attentive. Learns from his mistakes.
Seems like a great guy to me. And to Angela as well.
How did Lex get dressed? I've heard the backstory about the Mage of Rome and all, but adopting minimum human body taboos seems like a bit of a challenge (at least!) for web-winged gargoyles.
He has pierced wings.
(re-post) ..*hits head* *grumbles* ya..I knew that..why did I post all these together..*sighs* ok here they are again!
1) Did Lexington _willingly_ ally himself with this partner knowing fully WHO the person was? (IE: was this a silent partner or did he actually have contact with the person and know basic things like there name, sex, SPECIES? *L*)
2) Did Lexington _willingly_ ally himself with this partner knowing full well their true motives? (whatever they might be..)
3) I suppose this is a dumb question considering we are talking about Lex here..but are we talking about a software type company? Games? VR systems like Future Tense? Or did you not have anything SO specific in mind?
4) Can you tell us why Lexington started this business at all?
5) Have we seen or heard of this partner yet? (*L* You said I might find this partner surprising.now is that ME or everyone else included? *jk*
6) You said this company would have reprocusions (sp) all the way up to 2158 (hopes she got that date right!)
Would these reprocusions be bad, good or a little of both? (mostly bad..mostly good..etc. etc.)'
Dare I ask a Lexington's mate Q? ^_^ ..ahh..you don't have to answer that one..
7) Will Lexington's mate be 100% gargoyle?
8) How long does Lexington's company last?
Ok..your right..I used the word 'depressed' out of line. How would I know if he was or not? Sorry bout that one.
1. He knew.
2. Who can ever know someone's true motives?
3. I have something very specific in mind.
4. I could.
5. I'm not answering that now.
6. I'm not answering that now.
7. I'm not answering that now.
8. I'm not answering that now.
In the original wyvern clan didd you knoww who lex's mother would be
Lex had a lot of mothers. Quit thinking like a human.
You said that Broadway has a sibling, presumably a sister, named Hyppolyta. Where is she currently--- on Avalon? Was she slaughtered at the Wyvern massacre?
She's dead. I'm not saying more than that now.
Wow. Thanks. Yeah!! All of you! What are your top five favorite episodes and WHY? I'd really like to know. I'm guessing we'll get a lot of repetition, but what the hell.
You hate Broadway?
To which I respond....
I *used* to despise him. He never openly just popped out and was fun for me. Out of anyone on the show, he was the comic relief or stupid one, and I could've done without it. Brook I like for his sarcasm. Lex had the fun intelligence. Hudson wisdom. Goliath leadership. Bronx loyalty. Broadway... comic relief?
Thats what he seemed to be about at first. Or he was the one that made the mistakes. Firing the gun shooting elisa. He came across as really stupid that episode to me. When he wasn't stupid, pissed to the extent that... it was his fault, and it seemed like he was taking all his problems out on others. I mean... *poor* Glasses, to be picked up by your head like that. A very one tracked mind. He had a little saving grace in the Silver Falcon. You seemed to be trying to smarten him up. With Lighthouse too(i know I listed out of order). Though that episode have to admit... I wasn't paying attention to Broadway at all. Was trying to ignore him and just watch Macbeth with the Arthur speech. hee hee
Anycase, when he was portrayed in Future Tense. My opinion changed somewhat. I mean, this was what he could've become. Not blind, but he had the common sense, he didn't seem naive. regular series he would've of pressed that button on his collar until someone told him too probably. "Already on it Lex". He seemed like he had the experience of life. He came across as generally with a lot of development. I hope Puck was foreshadowing something there with him.
I hated Broadway. I see him more as the sensitive deducting one now with potential. So now I more tolerate him. Afterall, he did have that moment when I genuinely liked him in Future Tense.
I'm glad your assessment softened a bit. But frankly, I think your earlier assessment was fairly harsh.
We got comic relief from nearly all our characters. No more from Broadway than anyone else, it seems to me.
Broadway, of course, was the "sensitive one" (as opposed to the "sarcastic one" and the "intelligent one", I guess). Nothing wrong with that in my book. All three of the trio made mistakes. In fact all of our characters have made mistakes. Broadway's BIG mistake in Deadly Force was just way more serious in its consequences than most. But one could argue that Brooklyn's mistake in Temptation was more active and could have had even worse consequences. Etc.
Broadway, for part of that episode, did take his mistake out on others. Many of us react that way. In the end, he stood up and took responsibility for his actions. And that was before he knew Elisa was alive, to "tell on him".
But, hey, just my opinion.