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I've been a fan of Gargoyles since ever, but i didnt know it co tinued i comics till two days ago!!!! OMG!!! THATS AWESOME! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! but now i have a questio about gargate biology. I read that they go into heat every twenty years, on years that end in "7" but ...
What about just physical maturity? At what age are they physically mature, and Is this different from when they are seen as adults by their clan?
Okay, first, it's years that end in 8 not 7. (How weird would '7' be?!!)
Second, it depends on how you're defining physical maturity. The Trio were old enough to be considered warriors in 994 when they were 36 years old chronologically (and 18 biologically). On the other hand, Kermit and True would still have been considered children then, when they were 16 chronologically (and 8 biologically).
I am a big fan of the Gargoyle cartoon (havenÂ´t read the comics though, just read about some of the things that happens in them online, but I really donÂ´t know much about them, beside the whole time-dancer plot)and I admirer your imagination for creating them.
I got some question about the trio
1. How many gargoyles were hatched in their rookery, and did some leave the clan before the masqare?
2.How close were they to their other rookery siblings?
3.How bad was the masqare effect them and how much do they miss the ones who are dead
4. How much do they miss Scotland and the 10. century (I know itÂ´s clear that theyÂ´ve adjusted well to Manhattan and the 20. century, but still)
5. How close were they to anyone outside of their own rookery
6.How close are they to the mutants and Matt Bluestone.
1a. Don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. And I don't have my Gargoyles notebooks here at my WB office.
2. Close to some.
3. I'll let you use your imagination for this one.
4. Sometimes more than others.
5. Close to some.
6. Mutates? It's a mix. As for Matt, Broadway's probably closest to him. But they all get along.
Did Hudson influence Goliathâs decision at all as to who shouldâve been Goliathâs second in command?
If something had happened to Goliath before he had chosen a second in command, I would assume that Hudson wouldâve become leader at first, but then would choose someone else to lead since heâs older and believes that a younger leader would be best (which is indicated in the episode Upgrade). If this was the case, who would Hudson have considered becoming the new leader of the clan? Would he have based his decision along the same lines as Goliath, or would he have looked for other qualifications?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
Hudson and Goliath are two different guys... but I still think Hudson would have ended up choosing Brooklyn.
Any characters you were surprised to see becoming popular? The ensemble darkhorse in other words.
What series are we talking about here?
I guess I'll assume we're talking Gargoyles. And, no, not really. Perhaps I underestimated the Trio's popularity a bit, but I never thought they'd be UNpopular. But we can pretty much see who's popping as we're making the series.
Have Angela, the Trio, and Bronx ever killed someone? I don't mean like in the show, but back in the 10th Century? With Hudson, Goliath, and Demona being as battle hardened as they are it's sort of obvious they've done the deed, but I've always been curious to the younger members of the clan.
Well, not Angela. But I think it's very possible that Bronx and/or the Trio might have. And almost definite that Brooklyn did at Rathveramoen.
I've noticed that in Gargoyles, Lexington is much smaller and much more naive than all of the other characters. Is he any younger than the others, or is this simply his design/nature?
I don't think he is more naive. He's not any younger than Broadway. He is smaller.
G2009 Radio Play - Act Three
Norman Osborn was a fool. So obsessed with the power of science, he kept the Crown of Thorns in this vault as if it was just another souvenir â" albeit an expensive one â" to hang upon his wall. But with the Crown and the Spear of Destiny together, I now have the power to force all of humanity to its knees.
These are Christian icons, Demona. Not every human being is a Christian.
Not every human being speaks Latin, but that didnât stop me from using a Latin spell to turn a city-full of humans to stone. The magic I wield is potent beyond measure. Mine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory. No human may resist. No human will be spared. None will be spared who oppose me. Just look at this foolâ¦
Her name is Obsidiana.
Of course it is. For she wears the mystic Obsidian pendant fashioned by human sorcerers. Even that is enough to put her in my thrall. She has relinquished her gargoyle birthright.
I have relinquished nothing.
Demona waves the Spear of Destiny, and Electro rises and blasts Goliath back into the wall.
Yes, Iâm surprised youâre unaffectedâ¦ since you reek of humanity. The stink of your human whore is in your hair, on your lips, everywhere. And nothing in this world will give me more pleasure, Goliath, than watching your detective on her knees to me, as she draws her service revolver and thanks me with tears of joy in her eyesâ¦ before gratefully blowing out her own brains.
That will never be.
No? My power expands with every second. I doubt sheâs far away.
You will not harm Elisa.
Goliath advances on Demona. Electro blasts away, but Goliath will not be stoppedâ¦
No one ever said you werenât persistent, Goliath. But what do you hope to gain?
(through gritted teeth)
I will turn these forces back upon you.
Impossible. I am the last true gargoyle left on this world. The Crownâs magicks cannot touch me.
So you believe. But I am not the only one who reeks of humanity. Am Iâ¦ Dominique?!
Goliath grasps the crown. The thorns bite into his hands, drawing blood. They struggle for control of the immense powerâ¦
691. GOLIATH, DEMONA
<roaring to the heavens>
Goliathâs intervention â" and his complete immunity to the Crownâs effects â" creates the smallest of fluctuation in Demonaâs control. In a haze, Spider-Man lifts his armâ¦
He shoots off a web, yanking the bloody crown from Demonaâs head.
There is a massive explosion of mystic energy and light! Demona, Goliath and Electro collapse.
The Spearâ¦ the Crownâ¦
Gone. I think theyâ¦ blew up. Calypsoâs gone too. But Iâm betting thatâs just a talent of hers. And Iâd guess sheâs taken Kraven and the pussycat with her.
But the Big Badâs still hereâ¦
Leaving behind, as always, nothing but a handful of thornsâ¦
Goliath, Spider-Man and Demona sit. Jonah, Elisa, Matt and George STAND.
While Goliath helps Obsidiana, Spidey webs up Demona, Electro and Ock. In the outer vault, Zafiro and the Trio recover, finding only an unconscious and de-venomed Eddie Brock. Outside, the bad guys have all been beaten. Goblin and Vulture, their tech badly damaged, barely manage to fly away. Carnage and Jupiter are once again Cletus and John.
Iâm here, Johnny. Your old Popâs hereâ¦
Call an ambulance, Elisa. Old Man Dracon said something about seeing a light. Then he collapsed. A stroke or something. Iâve been giving him C.P.R.
Mattâ¦ Matt! You can stop. Stop. Heâs gone.
Youâre gargoyles are flying off, Detective.
Really? Not sure I see âem myself. But is that Spidey web-slinging away?
You think? I must have missed him?
Are you all blind?! Theyâre right over there!
714. GEORGE, MATT, ELISA (UNISON)
Oh, give it a rest, Margotâ¦
Elisa, Matt, George, Margot and Jonah sit. Peter, May, Harry and Gwen STAND.
Back at the busâ¦
Iâm back. And not a single decent picture to show for my efforts.
Well, you tried your best, Peter. Iâm sure Mr. Jameson will appreciate that.
Oh, yeah. Heâs a sweetheart that way.
Emily Osborn watches as her son finally emerges from the bathroom.
Hey, Gwen. I feel much better.
Harry, Gwen, Peter and May sit. Jonah and Robbie STAND.
Later that night, at The Bugleâ¦
Whaddayou mean I canât publish it?! How else can I make them all pay for what they did to Johnny!
You canât publish because the authorities refuse to comment. We have no pictures or statements to corroborate a story that includes gargoyles, a dead Green Goblin and everything except the kitchen sink. No one will believe it. I was there, and I donât believe it! Print this, Jonah, and The Bugle becomes the next Daily Tattler.
Ms. Brant, call the bomb squad. BECAUSE IâM ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!
Jonah and Robbie sit. Gwen, Peter, Kong, Curt, Harry, EMILY OSBORN and Mary Jane STAND.
Later still, aboard OsCorpâs private jet en route to Miamiâ¦
I still canât believe we ran into you in the airport parking lot, Doctor Connors.
Yeah, and weâre so sorry you got mugged.
Dude, they took your shoes?! Thatâs hilarious! <laughs>
Yes, well, I just really appreciate the ride back to Floridaâ¦
Anytime, Doctor C. Anytime.
Harry, could I have a momentâ¦ in your fatherâs office?
Uh, sure, Mom.
Curt, Kong and Gwen sit.
734. MARY JANE
736. MARY JANE
Tiny. Cute enough, but itâs like talking to a tree stump.
Tried to warn you.
738. MARY JANE
Just say weâll spend the week as a threesome, okay, Tiger.
740. MARY JANE
Not that kind of threesome.
Mary Jane and Peter sit.
Meanwhile, Harry follows his mother Emily into the jetâs private office.
I know you were playing at being the Goblin, Harry.
What?! Mom, thatâs crazy! I was in the bathroomâ¦
Donât lie to me, baby. You hired the worst chauffer in the city to delay our progress. You had a secret hatch installed in the bus bathroom, so you could slip in and out undetected. And you left a pre-recorded âvomit tapeâ with voice recognition software. All very impressive for a sixteen-year-old. But you need to understandâ¦ the Green Goblin is not what your father wanted for you.
I have no idea what Dad wanted for meâ¦
Then let him tell youâ¦
She slips a DVD into the computer and Norman Osborn appears on screenâ¦
NORMAN OSBORN STANDS.
Harry, my son. If you are watching this, then I am dead. And I have instructionsâ¦
Norman, Emily and Harry sit. Big Man, Blackie and SHARI STAND.
Meanwhile at the Big Manâs office, he and Blackie Gaxton are visited by Shari, a young woman wearing a pendant depicting an eye atop a pyramidâ¦
750. BIG MAN
Nine. Any problems?
753. BIG MAN
Not particularly. Ms. Destine was ready to believe I could find Dracon and the others useful.
And that faux Goblin was happy to believe Iâd been fooled into thinking he was the real thing.
Blackie removes his false face, revealing that he is actually the Chameleon in disguise.
Just as he was happy to believe I was the real Blackie Gaxton. But Iâm still not sure why the Society wanted all thisâ¦?
Isnât it enough to know the Illuminati appreciates your efforts?
CHAMELEON and Big Man sit. THAILOG, BRENTWOOD, Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 And Homunculus #3 STAND.
Shari leaves Lincolnâs office and pulls out her cellphoneâ¦
Dial Nightstone Unlimited.
The Spear? The Crown?
Waiting for you to send to Duval.
Brentwood capture little robot. Use it to control other little robots. When bright light shine, robots take spear and crown.
What should we do with the Homunculi?
Set them free. Maybe theyâll get their own series some day.
767. HOMUNCULUS #1
Free, free, set them freeâ¦
768. HOMUNCULUS #2
On basic cable and DVDâ¦
769. HOMUNCULUS #3
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Shari, Thailog and Brentwood sit. Elisa and Goliath STAND.
At the castle, Elisaâs cell rings.
Mazaâ¦ Yeah, Captain Stacy said you might call. Sure, heâs right here.
She hands the phone to Goliath, who doesnât quite know how to hold it. She takes it back and puts the call on speaker.
Hey, Goliath. Itâs your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
You protect yourâ¦ neighborhood.
Just like you do the super-hero thing without the tights.
Spider-Man, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Hey, I was just gonna say that. You saw that movie too?
God, I love youâ¦ <kiss>
Elisa, Goliath and Spider-Man sit. Kafka STANDS.
And finally â" yes, finally â" we end where we began. In the offices of Dr. Ashley Kafka at Ravencroft. Sheâs on the phone to her Board of Directors.
After all that tsuris, little has changed. Otto and Eddie are still disassociative. Max still needs a cure, and John still wants power. Cletus? He just keeps repeating, âI got a taste now,â over and over. Yes, we lost Dominic, Iâm afraid. But we do have a new patientâ¦
783. KAFKA (CONT)
Just wait until the sun goes downâ¦
Dominique and Kafka sit.
NEXT: I finally get back to answering questions...
Hudson has or had a biological child in Goliath's generation, the Trio's generation, and Bronx's generation. That means that Goliath and the Trio would have considered him one of their rookery fathers and Hudson regards them as his rookery children. (I'm guessing he regards Bronx somewhat differently, though correct me if I'm wrong.) So why do we never hear Goliath or any of the Trio calling Hudson "father" or him referring to any of them as "son"?
Their relationships are MORE specific than that. When you have a LOT of fathers (back in the day), many different varieties of relationships develop in addition to the paternal-filial. That doesn't mean they don't consider Hudson a rookery father, but it's not how they define him.
can you tell us what lex and broadways reactions to brooklyn having a fammily will you make them jealouse
Time will tell.
This is more of a Wyvern Clan culture question than a hypothetical one.
After Goliath sends the Trio and Bronx to the rookery and Demona questions his decision to punish them (out of their earshot like a good second, as you noted in the commentary), Goliath tells her that he will make it up to them somehow. If the Wyvern Massacre hadn't intervened, what are some things Goliath might have done to make it up to the Trio and Bronx?
I'm not sure he even knew. Probably a heart-to-heart and a little winging.
is eliza like a surrogate mother to the trio?
More like a big sister.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Halcyon Renard returns to Manhattan and contacts Matt Bluestone, informing him of Goliath and Elisa Maza's situation. Matt passes the word on to Hudson and the Trio, who inform Talon. Matt also attempts to cover for Elisa with her parents and Captain Maria Chavez.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Derek Maza starts working for David Xanatos. Jackal and Hyena attack them, but the Trio intervenes. Lexington manages to land Jackal's helicopter and hide it.
In Ireland, Rory Dugan and his girlfriend Molly steal a jacket from a local shop and manage to elude the police - just as the four travelers arrive from Avalon. The Banshee quickly captures Elisa Maza, Angela and Goliath.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa Maza gives the Trio a helicopter simulation video game.
Goliath, Angela, Elisa Maza and Bronx rest through the day in London, allowing Goliath's injured wing to heal. That night, they return to Avalon. Griff, Leo and Una become protectors of London again.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath confronts David Xanatos, who intends to test himself against the gargoyle leader. Wearing his armor, Xanatos and his Steel Clan robots attack Goliath and the Trio. The battle culminates at the Statue of Liberty, where the robots are destroyed, and Xanatos is forced to retreat -- but not until after he's successfully tested his armor and himself.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Convinced that David Xanatos is responsible for Elisa Maza's disappearance, Talon leads the Trio in an attack on the Eyrie Building. Xanatos and Owen Burnett test out their new (Thailog motivated) security system and Owen's new stone fist. Ultimately, however, they allow the foursome to fruitlessly search the place once Xanatos discovers that Goliath and the others are missing. Meanwhile, Fang has staged a coup down in the Labyrinth. He takes Talon prisoner upon his return. Maggie the Cat, however, escapes with Claw's aid and seeks help at the Clock Tower. After sundown, Brooklyn leads the gargoyles and Maggie against Fang and his minions. Talon is freed and Fang is captured.
Dingo, Matrix, Hunter, Yama and Fang are approaching an island when their battle-copter Redemption is blown out of the sky.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Edward the Confessor dies of natural causes. His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, succeeds him.
Goliath, Lexington, Bronx and Brooklyn return to Castle Wyvern atop the Eyrie Building but are intercepted by Elisa Maza, Hudson and Broadway, who finally manage to convince Goliath to follow Elisa to their new home at the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct -- but not before Goliath warns Owen Burnett that the clan will some day return. David Xanatos is finally released from jail that morning and returns to the castle. He starts serving his probation. Later that day, Xanatos goes to Gen-U-Tech Systems to observe Anton Sevarius' progress. Sevarius has successfully cloned Goliath and begins to accelerate the growth of "Thailog".
Hudson and the Trio have been searching for Goliath and Bronx to no avail. Broadway, realizing that Elisa Maza is missing too, brings her cat Cagney back to the Clock Tower. Brooklyn resists taking the reins of leadership, but he does go to visit Talon and Maggie the Cat in the Labyrinth, where homeless humans like Al, Chaz and Lou have joined the Mutates in what is supposed to be a free society of outcasts. Broadway visits Matt Bluestone next, but Matt is equally in the dark over his partner's disappearance. Lex eavesdrops on Elisa's parents and learns they are also worried. Meanwhile on Queen Florence Island, Elisa and the gargoyles find each other again, and then find Grandmother as she transforms into the Thunderbird. Grandmother later admits that she was undergoing these transformations to convince Natsilane to take up arms against Raven to save the island. When Natsilane meets the gargoyles, he is convinced. The gargoyles and Natsilane battle Raven and drive him away. With Raven gone, Grandmother is able to heal the island. The travelers again return to Avalon, where it is six in the morning, causing Goliath, Angela and Bronx to turn to stone.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
NOTE THAT THIS IS CORRECT FOR DECEMBER 27. THE PREVIOUS POST FOR DECEMBER 26 IS INCORRECT. AT THIS TIME, I HAVE NOTHING IN THE TIMELINE THAT DEFINITELY TOOK PLACE ON 12/26.
The Manhattan Clan enjoys a pleasant, peaceful night at the castle: Broadway cooks; Goliath reads; Lex and Brooklyn play cards; Hudson watches Donald Duck on TV; Bronx chews a bone. Meanwhile, David Xanatos is still counting down the days until his release.
Hudson and the Trio patrol, while Goliath and Bronx remain behind at the Clock Tower. Tom, now known as the Guardian, arrives in New York, looking for Goliath. He is arrested by Officer Morgan Morgan, who mentions him to Elisa Maza. Elisa arranges a meeting between Goliath and Tom.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath and Broadway, who aren't in on Elisa Maza's undercover charade, follow her and come close to blowing her cover. She covers, however, and manages to get a meeting with Tony Dracon, where the two of them agree to go into business together with the gargoyles. The gargoyles and cops wind up foiling Dracon's operation and getting him to confess his transgressions on videotape. He's arrested and sent away. Goliath tastes jalapeñas for the first time. Later that morning, Elisa's sister Beth Maza comes into town from Arizona. That evening, while the Trio attend a rock concert in the park, Beth spots Talon watching the Maza family from outside Elisa's window. Later, Goliath admits that he has seen the Mutates back with David Xanatos. Elisa and Goliath confront Talon. Elisa reveals to her brother that Anton Sevarius isn't dead. Talon's extreme stance convinces Goliath to take drastic action.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The trio realize that the rest of the clan is missing and -- utilizing a tip from Fox and a plan from Brooklyn -- manage to find the Pack and rescue their friends. Coyote-II is destroyed, and Dingo, Jackal, Hyena and Wolf are left for the police. (And thus Fox wins the little game she was playing against David Xanatos.) Goliath chooses Brooklyn as his Second-in-Command.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The trio have grown steadily more at odds over Goliath's inability to choose one of them as a Second. They have begun competing to see who can stop the most street crime. Elisa, Goliath, Hudson and Bronx are captured by a newly upgraded Pack. Coyote has a new robot body. Hyena & Jackal are now cyborgs. Wolf is a mutate. And Dingo has new battle armor. Meanwhile, Halcyon Renard, who had been searching for some means to fight the disease that is killing him, discovers an incantation that will transfer his soul into the Golem of Prague.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Trio goes to see the movie Showdown for the first time.
Early in the afternoon, Fox wires a down payment to Preston Vogel's Swiss bank account, securing his services for her hostile effort to take over Halcyon Renard's Cyberbiotics company. That evening, Cyberbiotics launches Fortress-2. Despite Elisa's concern, Goliath follows the airship to protect it, but he is viewed as a threat and is captured by Renard's cybots. Meanwhile, Fox receives test results from her doctor, confirming she is pregnant with Xanatos' child.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
While Elisa again tries to convince Goliath to abandon the castle, they are attacked by a Steel Clan Robot. Goliath destroys it, but Owen uses the opportunity to acquire some of Goliath's genetic material.
The Pack attempts to rob a bank. The gargoyles try to stop them. Goliath is badly injured - allowing the Pack to escape. Hudson informs Goliath that he needs to choose one of the Trio to be his Second-in-Command.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Trio finds an old abandoned motorcycle, and Lex decides to rebuild it.
Petros returns to Bar Harbor, Maine.
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Are the Trio's Belt color Black or Brown?
I don't know.
Ive notice in the new Gargoyles comics, the Trios Loincloths are light brown instead of dark blue, is this a art error or something else?
I don't know. Maybe Fox provided a change of clothes.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
Xanatos' probation expires.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos acquires the Cauldron of Life and prepares to test it by ordering the construction of a pair of Macbeth robots and a statue of Hudson. He also begins looking for a sword that will match Hudson's to be used with the statue.
Relieving Talon, Goliath takes his shift guarding the Labyrinth prisoners. Thailog busts Demona and Fang out. Talon and Goliath pursue them to Coney Island. Goliath departs and quickly returns with Angela, the Trio and Hudson. All are captured by Fang, Demona, Thailog and his clones: Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank (made from the DNA of Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn and Hudson, respectively).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa discovers that gargoyles turn to stone during the day. She's forced to lead the Commandos away from a stone Goliath in order to protect him. She then waits by his side throughout the day, cementing their friendship. That night the Trio takes the names Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington and gives Bronx his name as well. Xanatos then reunites Goliath with Demona. Together, Demona and Xanatos convince Goliath and the clan to "retrieve" the computer disks from Cyberbiotics. Goliath and Demona attack Cyberbiotics' airship The Fortress-1, costing Vinnie his Cyberbiotics' security job in the process. The gargoyles are successful in recovering the disks. But the Cyberbiotics Underground Base (under the leadership of the Cyberbiotics Commander) is badly damaged by Hudson and Bronx. And Goliath grows disconcerted with the changes in Demona, particularly after she causes the destruction of Fortress-1. Elisa is able to convince Goliath that Xanatos has been using him, revealing that the disks were actually Cyberbiotics' property and that the Commandos were working for Xanatos.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa investigates, encountering first Owen, then Xanatos, then Bronx and finally Goliath. Frightened at seeing a live gargoyle for the first time, she backs away and falls off the building. Goliath saves her life, introduces her to the rest of the clan and agrees to meet her the next night. Early that morning, Xanatos asks Goliath's help to get his disks back. Goliath is reluctant to help. And unbeknownst to him, Xanatos and Demona are planning something. That night, the Trio leaves the castle to explore the city and accidentally trashes the motorcycle of a man named Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson keep the rendezvous with Elisa, who more or less gives Hudson his name. Hudson retreats to the castle with Bronx - where they discover television and lounge chairs. Meanwhile, Goliath and Elisa rescue an ungrateful Margot Yale and Brendan Quarters from muggers, before being attacked in Central Park by the Commandos from the night before.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The final touches on the castle are completed. It now sits atop the Eyrie Building, high "above the clouds", thus fulfilling the condition of the Magus' spell. The Magus' curse is broken, and Goliath, Hudson, the Trio and Bronx awaken to a brave new world. Minutes later, a group of Commandos attack and seem to steal three disks from Xanatos. This attracts the attention of New York City Police Detective Elisa Maza. Elisa also meets Officer Morgan for the first time.
The werefox is first sighted in Manhattan.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In anticipation of Halloween, Elisa helps the Trio order costumes through the mail. Broadway chooses a detective costume. Brooklyn, a pirate. Lex, a pilot.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just before dawn, Goliath and Hudson discover that they have been following only a small contingent of Vikings; the rest must be preparing to attack the castle. The two gargoyles turn to stone before they can get back. Simultaneously, Demona nearly warns Othello and Desdemona, but changes her mind as she sees the Vikings approach. Instead, she hides at the foot of Wyvern cliff, where she turns to stone as the sun rises. Hakon attacks. The archers' sabotaged bows are useless, and the Captain opens the main gate, allowing the Vikings to enter Castle Wyvern, which is sacked. The humans, including Katharine, the Magus, Mary and Tom are led away bound. Hakon then sets about to destroy the gargoyles, including Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Hyppolyta. The Captain is "unable" to stop him. When the sun goes down again, Demona awakens to discover that the Wyvern Clan have been massacred. When she sees Goliath and Hudson returning, she cannot face them and flees before they can discover the massacre. The only other survivors seem to be the Trio and Bronx, who were in the Rookery. The survivors head for the Viking camp to take their revenge. When Hakon and the Captain hear the gargoyles approaching, they take Katharine as a hostage. The Magus mistakenly assumes that the Princess is dead. Blaming the gargoyles, he casts a spell on all but Goliath putting them to sleep "until the castle rises above the clouds." Meanwhile, Goliath confronts the Captain and Hakon atop a cliff. He rescues the Princess, and the two villains fall to their deaths. But when Goliath discovers that the rest of his clan has been turned to stone, he asks the Princess to watch over the eggs in the Rookery and asks the Magus to cast his spell one more time. Goliath is turned to stone with the others and placed atop Castle Wyvern. Demona later returns to the castle to find Goliath frozen in stone. She watches the Magus, Tom and Princess Katharine removing the eggs from Wyvern. She departs for good. Katharine dubs Tom the Guardian of the Gargoyle Eggs. Katharine, the Magus, Tom, Mary and the rest of Wyvern's human inhabitants take the eggs and leave the cursed castle to live under the protection of Katharine's uncle, King Kenneth II. Seconds later, three time travelers arrive in 994: the Demona of 1995 has brought the Demona of 975 along with the Goliath of 1995 to see the results of the massacre. But the 1995 Demona fails to convince the 975 Demona to take up her evil cause. The time travelers depart, returning to 975.
Xanatos proposes to Fox and gives her the Eye of Odin as an engagement gift. She accepts both his proposal and the Eye. Alexander Fox Xanatos is most likely conceived on this night.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Captain approaches Hakon and offers to help him take the Castle. That night, the Captain and Demona try to convince Goliath to take all the gargoyles out of the castle to make sure the Vikings leave for good. But Goliath decides to only take one other gargoyle along with him, leaving Demona in command of the others. Demona and the Captain alter their plan. Hakon will now attack during the day, when the Gargoyles are stone. The Captain swears he'll keep the Gargoyle clan safe. Meanwhile, the Trio and Bronx meet Tom, resulting in a minor altercation with Mary and the refugees. To keep the peace, Goliath sends Bronx and the Trio down to the Rookery. Demona makes one more attempt to change Goliath's mind, and Othello offers to accompany Goliath. Goliath decides to take Hudson instead. Goliath and Hudson follow the Vikings' trail. While back at the Castle, the Captain sabotages the bowstrings of his own archers.
How come Hudson doesn't take on a more fatherly role with the Trio? He seemed to with Goliath and to a lesser extent Demona.
I'd argue he does, keeping in mind that he views the three of them as young adults, not children.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
This is more of an observation than a question.
In the episode Upgrade, Goliath had to choose a second in command. He stated that he didn't want to choose recklessly because it might put a rift between the trio. And he said that "I see now that nothing can come between you three." I guess he didn't count on the fact that Angela is alive and that she might someday fall in love with one of the trio and that might throw a rift between them.
I'm not sure Angela does throw a RIFT into things. They argue when she first shows up, and inevitably they are growing up and won't be joined at the hip anymore, but they'll always be the best of friends.
What day,year,month was Brooklyn born.
Brooklyn, Lexington & Broadway all hatched in 958 on or about the Spring Equinox... so around March 21st.
Hi, Greg. I know you open these for the gathering thing but i got these questions and comments...ya know, it is a nice oportunity. I would love LOVE going to the Gathering but as i am on the other point of the continent (:P) like, i cannot go... Gargoyles is geting very popular here, in Argentina, but i would want to know if the dvd or the comics are going to be able here? :) so the south people can enjoy gargolyes more?:) Jo, anyway, great show, great story, great characters, great drawings and...great me! hahaha.
Fine, now comments and questinos, if u wanna escape, these is the rigth moment:
Demona is one of the best characters i have ever seen before, and i love the contrast that she has with Magnetto, althougt she is, well, crazy.
I get what feelings the poor Goliath still had for Demona, and what feelings Demona had for Goliath, but the others members of the clan once had a close relaitionship with her as well, like "sister-brothers" "daugther-father". So ( i know about Brooklyn, very expresive the guy) what did feel Broadway and Lexingston about that? I mean, if my sister would get mad and because, let´s say, a dog kill someone she loves, now she would be trying to destroy all the dogs of the world:S i would be really...sad?.
It´s the same with Hudson, he ´d seen Demona since her most tender infance, looking her grown up from that little hatchling to that powerfull and nobel warrior she once was. Actually, he was her father. So same question, what did cross his mind every time he see her then in the new millenium? It must be very frustrating.And as we are with him, if Demona was part of the clan no more, they would still be like a daugther and a father, by teorical terms?
And Elisa, she is such a nice person! But althougth all the times Demona has tried to hurt her, Elisa seems to get more anger whenever Xanatos or Tony Dracon tryes something than when Demona does. Why is that she react so "professional" when is Demona who "pops-up" ?
Tempation: Jo, great episode however not the best.
Nice detail: i LOVE that posture of Demona after Brooklyn tryed to take the book away from her for the first time: leaning against the wall, huging the arcanorum as it would be Goliath him-self (XD)looking lunatically from the shadows. It was then when i thougth: something happened to these girl!.
To think: Gargoyles can really keep a groudge for a long time, and not just Demona but then Lexingston and now Brook, c´mon people, let it go!.
I think Demona wasn´t really lieng to Brooklyn...yes she screw it up, but i think she really has a point. Always she has that nasty point of view that makes you think " fuck, she is no so wrong".
Long way to morning: It´s great if you want to see scared things but, i really didn´t like the Demona of the past in these one, she acts very similar to the present, not exactly but...she was nasty.
Reawaking: I love these one, how the clan learns that the people is important and no the place where the people is, how they got more "civilizated". very nice lesson.
The mirror: It´s the first time someone subdue demona in how much time? These episode, i think, it´s the only one ( after high noon) in wich Demona appears that i laugh. Awesome, but why did Demona hesitate when Puck asked her what did she want? It´s not the destruction of human race always on her mind?
City of stone: And everything got sense!! I cried at the end :( poor demon. And that make me ask was the humans hate what drive her on the way she was or it was the lonlyness what twist her brain?
High noon: hahahahahahahahahahahaha...GREAT END!! "Why are we working together!?""grrrr"
Avalon: Macbeth and Demona working together...Woaho.
Well that´s all for now. I really REALLY hope you understan all that crap, i did my best to write in pure english(:P)and if you did not... i am really sorry. A last think!! In ascending list: Whoose of these characters she hates most?: Macbeth, the hunters, Goliath, the rest of the clan, Elisa, the rest of human race, Puck, Thailog. Thanks for your time, bye :)
In the future, numbering your questions would really help me out. Also please avoid using curse-words in this forum. We try to keep it PG.
1. I'm afraid I don't know where the DVDs are available internationally. Have you tried Amazon.com?
2. Broadway and Lex may not have been THAT close to Demona in the Tenth Century. She was too young to be a maternal figure to old to be a Rookery Sister, and perhaps too imposing and/or prickly to be a friend. So her betrayal of the clan, is just that: a betrayal of the clan, not a personal betrayal. Which is not to say that they don't take it personally, cuz I'm sure they do. But they don't feel personally betrayed. Does that make sense?
3. As for Hudson, he is Demona's father. So I think it's much tougher on him. The only saving grace, such as it is, is that I think by the time of the massacre, Hudson had a clearer sense of Demona's true nature. I think deep down the betrayal was less of a shock to him then it was to Goliath. Not that he wasn't surprised. You can see how warmly he greets her in "Awakening, Part Four" when she first resurfaces. But in the end and darkly, I think her role in things saddens but doesn't shock him. I also think he CHOSE to focus his real hatred on Hakon Clan-Slaughterer.
4. I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Elisa vis-a-vis Demona. Certainly Dracon is able to get under Elisa's skin, but I think the thing to keep in mind is that Dracon is HER nemesis. Not Goliath's. Hers. Not that Goliath hasn't been of use there, but Dracon isn't super-human. He's a crook. She's a cop. Dealing with Dracon is HER job. As for Elisa and Demona, I think there are plenty examples of Elisa revealing her true feelings for Demona (in "The Mirror", in "Vows", in "High Noon", etc.) And they aren't without ire. But Elisa didn't lose her clan to Demona. So it's not the same thing.
5. In "The Mirror", Puck had already made the point that he didn't have the power to giver her absolutely anything she wanted, i.e the destruction of the entire human race. So she had to pick a more specific wish. That put her at a brief loss.
6. Loneliness, I believe, was a huge factor in creating the present day Demona. Not the only factor. But a big one.
7. Well, this is a little pointless, but if I have to rank your list, at this time, i.e. as of issue #1 of the comic book, I'd put 'em in this order of hate:
rest of clan
I checked the FAQ and several of the archives and can't find this anywhere. So please god, tell me I didn't miss it.
A while back I had a gargoyles activity book that said Brooklyn didn't like pizza. Then a little bit ago I read a fanfiction story that said Lexington was the one that didn't like pizza. So my question is, which one of the gargoyles is it that doesn't like Pizza? I know that's kind of a dumb question but I'm really curious now.
Originally, it was important to us that NONE of the Trio ate Pizza. This came from us being afraid that the Trio would be regarded as copies of the Turtles, who are pizza-obsessed. So I basically declared that during the first season -- NO PIZZA.
Now that the Trio is established, I'm less concerned. Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that they wouldn't like Pizza. What's not to like?
In "Awakening" when the trio were playing with Bronx and Tom comes to talk to them. His mom throws a stick at them. When their eyes started to glow. Were they trying to scare people away from them or were they just trying to have some fun?
More the former. They were hurt and angry. Basically, you can take at face value what they say in that scene.
To answer Anons question, I know some (plz do corrected me if I'm wrong so I can correct myself)
1)Brooklyn - is 19 years young, 6ft tall and wingspan 6 ft, day he weighs about 210 lbs. , night alot more
2)Broadway - 19 years of age, 6 ft tall, wingspan about 16ft, day time weighing in at a even 2 tons, night I don't even wanna think about it.
3)Lex - 19 years old
(I'm a tad bt out of thier age range)
4)Golaith - I think 29 years old
(Within better age range for me, he's just a few older than I)
5)Hudson - Hatced in 878 A.D., you do the math and get back to me on that one.
6)Bronx - not that old at all
7)Demona - If you know that would also help me, because I have no clue and if I'm wrong I don't want her hunting me down.
Gargoyles Forever !
Anonymous asked for the ages at the time they were cursed. So my numbers are more accurate.
And I don't stand by those weights at all. Frankly, I'm not even sure about the wingspans.
As for Demona, she hatched at the same time as Goliath.
I know that the Clan was frozen in stone for 1,000 years, and I am also aware that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans, but approximately how old was each of the Gargoyles prior to being cursed.
I've answered this before, but...
The first number is the character's actual calendar age. (The second is their approximate human biological equivalent.)
Hudson 116 (58)
Goliath 56 (28)
Trio 36 (18)
Bronx 16 (8)
Here's a new ramble for ASK GREG & the DCV...
As usual, I watched the episode recently with my family.
And as usual, everytime my five year-old Benny, sees Xanatos and Fox, he tells his seven year old sister Erin, "You were her. I was Xanatos and you were Fox." [All quotations (both from my kids or from the episode) are approximate.]
This is a big episode for attitudes.
Xanatos and Fox pit multiple individuals against each other in life and death circumstances and regard it all as a game.
Lex still hates the Pack.
Dingo is disgusted with the Pack's life of crime, and then even more disgusted with what his teammates do to their bodies. Cool lines like "Save the horrorshow..." or "I hope you don't eat your catch..." or "You're barely our species..." or "I still can't get over what you three did to yourselves..." or "I'm a partner in a freakshow..." or "...after they went Frankenstein on me..." all help distinguish him, perhaps for the first time. We had a notion of where Dingo was going. And this episode helped bridge the gap to "Walkabout". And eventually to the development I did with Gary Sperling, Bob Kline, Troy Adomitis, Doug Murphy and Patrick Archibald on "BAD GUYS," which some of you have seen at the Gathering.
How the mighty have fallen. My point-of-view and Dingo's matched up. The Pack were beginning to feel pathetic. The problem with villains is that after the heroes keeps beating them over and over, you need to find a way to keep them competitive. This episode (reflected in its title, which may or may not have been one of mine, but which I latched onto EARLY and stuck with) was always part of my plans for the Pack. Intro them in the first season as humans. This was necessary, because the world of our first season was MUCH more normal. I wanted to weird the world up in small steps. Don't intro Oberon first, intro Puck. That kind of thing. So once the science was established, we'd upgrade.
This dovetailed nicely with the need for Goliath to 'upgrade' one of his warriors to Second-In-Command. Goliath had been Hudson's second. Demona had been Goliath's. But it was past time to name a new successor. We always had Brooklyn in mind for that roll, but I remember asking Gary whether he felt we had succeeded in establishing that without ever having stated it. He felt we had. What did you guys think when you first saw the episode?
The battle at the bank. On my tape, there's an animation glitch where Dingo hits his head and then seems to intentionally hit his head again. I'm hoping it got fixed for later airings.
Anyway, the battle winds down. No one's done very well. But the Pack is on the run. Erin at this point says, "There's no messing with the big boys." Proving that the Pack was no longer competitive.
Wolf yells, "This isn't over!" sounding very much like Hakon to my ears.
Lex wants to pursue, but Brooklyn already the subconscious leader of everyone's choice, says, "Helping Goliath is more important."
Hudson gooses Goliath to choose a second. Refuses the job himself. This is another example of Hudson being the guardian of tradition. He knows they live in a brave new world. But he wants to preserve what worked in the old one as well.
Erin says, "I think Goliath's going to choose the red guy." Meaning Brooklyn. I am briefly horrified that my own kids don't reliably know the names of the lead characters. (Of course, before last week, we hadn't watched the series in a year. But still...)
I love the idea of Coyote's head knocking on the door of the Pack's ship. For starters it's so odd to get a knock while in flight. Second, how did he knock. Why with his forehead of course...
The trio begin their competition. Bronx is disgusted.
The new Pack is revealed. What was everyone's reaction? The Coyote-Head had laid out the options, but were you at all shocked at the upgrades when you first saw them?
I like the creepy Addams Family moment with Jackal's arm. I like that this Wolf and Dingo are now competitive in strength with Goliath.
I find it interesting that we had Goliath say, "What manner of trickery is this?" instead of "What sorcery is this?" I mean, who were we kidding, right?
Hudson then brings up the Archmage's sorcery. Just a reminder that the Archmage existed for what we knew was coming in Avalon.
I don't know if this was fixed for reairing, but their's a big mistake in this first battle. Goliath spots COYOTE the robot flying off and goes off alone in pursuit. This was supposed to be him spotting just the little head. He goes off after the head, thinking he'll find Xanatos or something. Then the giant Robot steps forward. Would have been a much better reveal.
I love the interaction as the Pack chooses a leader.
Cree is great reading: "Coyote, honey..." and "I find him very attractive." Hyena's attraction to Coyote was a fun running gag. But did it influence her choice of upgrades?
Jackal is grossed out, proving as ever, that he's just a tad saner than his sister. "Well, that's sicker than usual." He sides with Wolf, just for that reason.
Leaving Dingo with the deciding vote.
More animation errors that I hope got corrected eventually: Fox's lips don't move. So suddenly we're hearing her internal monologue.
Note that Broadway actually foils the most crime in their nightly competition. We did that on purpose. To show that was never the point.
Xanatos says, "Clever move." to end an act.
Then we come back, and he's confident saying, "I think I've still got the edge." Of course that line was a literal reuse of the line from "The Edge". We had a lot of so-so animation in this episode. It forced us to cut the show tight enough that we had to add footage. So we reprinted the shot of X&F playing chess and reused the old line to fill the space.
Everytime Hyena's hand folded backwards, Erin would say: "Eww, that's disgusting!"
CONTINUITY: Just as Lex dislikes the Pack, Bronx seems to particularly dislike Coyote. He's always chewing on that bot, forcing Coyote to threaten to "send this puppy into orbit!"
I love Hyena's line: "I wonder if Gargoyles taste like chicken?" Can't help thinking she'd sincerely like to know.
Frank Paur had this idea that when Wolf got angrier, he'd morph even wolfier. But the animation never quite worked on that. It was a great idea, but the transformation doesn't play dramatically, so it just looks like the model changes part way through the fight.
Coyote's demise was heavily influenced by the first Terminator movie. We keep destroying the darn bot, but it just keeps getting up.
Morgan reappears. I was never wild about his "Hospital, Machine Shop or Vet" line. It's okay, but it seemed a bit too flip.
Goliath, like the production staff, had his choice in mind all along. Brooklyn. By now the trio's come around to the same idea, except Brooklyn himself, who suddenly realizes the weight he'll be carrying around. A prelude to "Kingdom", as he says to Goliath, "Be careful. I'm in no hurry to take your place."
(Nice moment in their when Hudson pets Bronx. It has nothing specific to do with anything else, but it's a nice touch.)
Fox & Xanatos make such a cool couple. I love that he doesn't mind losing to her. Happier to have found a true equal.
And I love that chilling, funny ending: "Care to play again?"
Ever wonder about their next game?
Anyway, there's my ramble. Where's yours?
[In preparation for my new ramble for ASK GREG & the DCV, here's my original memo to Story Editor Gary Sperling on Adam Gilad's first draft outline of the episode "Upgrade". Note the date. At the time I wrote this, "Deadly Force" had just recently aired, but the rest of the first season was being saved for early 1995.]
Notes on "Upgrade" Outline...
My big fear is that Brooklyn didn't feel like leader material in this. To our audience he's going to come off as cautious and wimpy throughout most of the episode, with the added problem that he's subject to peer pressure. This is particularly problematic in that Brooklyn has always been defined as the MOST adventurous of our trio. Ultimately, the qualities that will define him as a leader include strategic abilities, common sense, a willingness to sacrifice... and, yes, knowing when to retreat and/or call for help. But if we make the latter quality into Brooklyn's first instinct, it will overshadow the others. And our audience won't buy him as leader. Maybe more important than all of this should be a natural unconscious quality of leadership, which parallel's Broadway and Lexington's roles as followers. When they stop thinking and slip into automatic pilot, Brooklyn naturally seems to give the orders and the others naturally follow.
These guys do work well as a team, don't be afraid to show that. We've got a competitive thing going between them that will tend to screw up their natural teamwork, but if we're going to prove our point, then we need to see moments when they forget to be competitive and just cooperate. In any case, let's not make them infantile. When you define competitiveness think Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer in Top Gun. These are young warriors, not children elbowing each other as they fly.
Let's also avoid setting up non-existent flaws in Lex and Broadway. Things like Broadway being slow to awaken is just not born out in any of our other episodes. They all wake up within a few seconds of each other at sunset.
Having said all this, you'll see below that I gave them less screen time, mostly because it choreographed cleaner, but also because it really put something at stake other than the contest for leader (i.e. the lives of their friends). Plus I've isolated them from everyone that usually provides them with help or advice (Goliath, Hudson, Elisa and even Bronx). So I'm crossing my fingers that what we lose in quantity time, we will make up for in quality.
I'm also concerned that we've Upgraded the Pack, only to make them seem even more incompetent than ever. They've got to feel considerably more dangerous. We need to believe the Gargoyles barely survived this go 'round. The Pack's leadership issues cannot get too far in the way of their success. Ultimately the gargoyles do triumph because their teamwork under Brooklyn defeats a divided Pack. But if the Pack members are just at each others throats through the whole program, they'll never feel like a viable threat. Remember, despite the dangerously unstable personalities involved (including Coyote, but not Dingo), the Pack's fighting style is based on teamwork by definition. Let them play to their strength, that way it'll be even more ironic when the gargoyles defeat them through teamwork driven by sound leadership.
PACK UPGRADE SPECS
What follows may be what you had in mind, but I want to make sure we're all operating off the same page.
WOLF - gets turned into a werewolf. The biggest and most obvious change will be to his head, which will have a canine shape. Like Talon and his mutants, Wolf will be covered with hair all over, his hands will be clawed, and he'll have haunches. He cannot fly, but he can leap far distances. He'll probably have a better sense of smell and hearing, but I want to downplay these last qualities, because I think they can come off as silly. (Let's not make him an object of ridicule to his teammates simply because he's gotten more dog-like. They are all themed off canines. Both Coyote's head and Dingo's helmet will be dog-shaped as well. I would think that Jackal, Hyena and Coyote would all respect the power which came with his choice of Upgrade. Hyena might make an obnoxious comment here or there, but the only one who's really attacking his choice is Dingo -- and obviously it's not for aesthetic reasons.) Wolf will be much stronger than he was, now on a par with Goliath.
JACKAL & HYENA - become Cyborgs. Half human. Half machine. And the machine parts are NOT camouflaged as human. They have built in weapons. Cyborg legs will also allow them to leap far distances. Maybe even built in flight capabilities. And their strength will increase to Gargoyle level. Maybe not as strong as Goliath or Broadway, but equal or above the others.
DINGO - wears full body armor, including a helmet. Sort of like what we thought Xanatos was wearing as Coyote (in "Leader of the Pack") before we found out Coyote was a robot. (Model sheets are available for Coyote if you're unclear.) The focus should be on his armor, not on "weapons". All the weapons are built in. And the armor should be as flexible and powerful as Xanatos' own Gargoyle armor (screen "The Edge"), plus whatever latest innovations were thrown into this design. That means Dingo should be able to fly. Rocket jets in his boots. Or a rocket pack on his back. Probably not as maneuverable or graceful as a Gargoyle, but he can hover, which they can't do. Again, his strength level is now increased. Probably just under Wolf and Goliath range. (Note: Dingo also has less screen time than I'd like to be able to give him here, so we've really got to make his moments of uneasiness about his partners count. One visual clue that I think will help is the fact that Dingo removes his helmet every chance he gets. He subconsciously needs periodic reassurance that the helmet isn't a part of him and that he hasn't in fact relinquished his humanity.)
COYOTE - Although he's still programmed to have a slightly more vengeful version of Xanatos' personality, Coyote doesn't look like Xanatos anymore. What would be the point? He looks like a huge exaggerated version of the original Coyote. Mighty Joe Young may be a little too big, but you get the idea. If Goliath is eight feet tall than Coyote-II is more like ten or eleven, and built like a gorilla. Coyote is definitely stronger than Goliath, and he can fly. Being huge may have it's disadvantages, but not too many. This is the most powerful and sophisticated robot that Xanatos has built yet. It's computer brain (at least part of which should be the damaged head from "Leader") is well-protected in the robot's chest.
PACK ATTACK VEHICLE - This isn't and never was a van. It flies. It submerges underwater. This is super high-tech. I'm not sure if it even has an exhaust pipe. Model sheets exist if you need to see them.
OWEN vs. COYOTE'S HEAD
You can't have Owen. He's a stand-in for Xanatos, and you've already got one of those: the damaged head of Coyote from "Leader".
LEXINGTON'S TRACKING DEVICE vs. FOX
You can't have this device either. I don't want to ever make the gargoyles too high-tech in their crime-fighting. If we give Lex the ability to make one of these here, we're stuck with him having this knowledge and wondering all the time why he doesn't use it over and over. Besides, why would he create a device that tracks, but only tracks when it's inhaling carbon monoxide fumes?
At any rate, the gargoyles may not need the device. They have a secret ally that even they are not aware of: Fox. It's obvious here how Xanatos is manipulating his chess pieces. But Fox doesn't seem to be moving hers in opposition. She's simply counting on them to defeat the Pack. In some subtle way, let her "move" her pieces too. [Note: the method I use below is semi-goofy at best. If you like it you can use it, but feel free to come up with something better.]
Also, please be careful that Xanatos doesn't say anything that might imply that he threw the match. If he wasn't trying his best to win, he wasn't respecting Fox as an opponent.
MONTAGE vs. NO MONTAGE
Sorry. After cuts were made for both S&P and for things that I did not want to reveal, there wasn't anything left. So out it went.
All gargoyles sleep as stone to recharge during the day, which allows them to operate at their peak throughout the night. Hudson's peak may not be what it once was, but he doesn't need extra downtime at night.
1. Night. Bank job being carried out by what's left of the PACK: WOLF, JACKAL, HYENA and DINGO. There's an air of desperation here. They need money because they are on the run. They get to the roof, where their PACK ATTACK VEHICLE is hovering. And where it has attracted the attention of the patrolling gargoyles: BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY and GOLIATH. There is a battle. The Pack is a bit out-classed, but only just. The Pack has the weapons and technology. What they lack is flight capability, brute strength (Wolf is incredibly strong for a human, but no match for Goliath) and leadership (Wolf acts like he's the leader, the others just don't naturally follow him). In contrast, Goliath leads his troops effectively. Give the Pack credit for figuring that out. They agree to take out the leader. And they do. Goliath is injured.
The Pack get away in their vehicle, but without the money. Lex momentarily wants to pursue his hated enemies, but as sirens approach, Brooklyn thinks the priority should be to get Goliath back to the safety of the CLOCK TOWER. He asks Broadway to help him carry Goliath. Neither Lex or Broadway question Brooklyn's leadership at this stage. Nor do any of the three, including Brooklyn, make a point of saying that Brooklyn is in charge. He just says some very common sense things and the others see the sense in it and follow his lead.
2. Meanwhile, the Pack Vehicle flies through the Manhattan Night. Maybe some brief sniping between the members, before there's a knock on the door... which seems odd at this altitude. Almost despite himself, Dingo opens the hatch to reveal COYOTE'S HEAD flying alongside on it's little mini-rocket. It still has half of Xanatos' face, and it asks politely in Xanatos' voice if it can come in. (There's also a model sheet completed on this damaged head. It looks pretty cool if you want the reference.)
3. Back at the Clock Tower near dawn, HUDSON tends to Goliath. It's a bad laser burn, but it'll heal when the sun rises and they turn to stone. But it brings up something that's concerned Hudson for awhile. He hates to even say it, but next time Goliath might not be so lucky. Goliath needs to name a second-in-command. Goliath chooses Hudson, of course. But Hudson declines. Goliath was Hudson's lieutenant and became his successor when it was time for Hudson to step down. Goliath needs to choose one of the trio. But first Goliath must sleep. The trio hear all this. Hudson has intentionally made no attempt to hide the conversation from them. They all straighten-up, leader-like. And the sun rises. Goliath turns to stone still cradled in his comrades arms.
4. Because the sun has risen, the Pack Vehicle dives beneath the surface of the Hudson River (or the East River or the Bay or whatever). It comes to a stop on the bottom and rests.
Inside, the Coyote Head has literally latched itself onto the ships computers. He's lowered a screen and is starting his sales pitch. Tired of being out-classed by the gargoyles? Ready to be as strong as them? To fly like them? Etc.? Well, let me show you what we can do. Is Genetic-Engineering your passion? (He shows footage of TALON in action trashing Goliath.) Or is Cybernetics more your style? (He shows footage of COLDSTONE trashing Goliath.) A little high-tech haberdashery, perhaps? (Footage of XANATOS in his GARGOYLE ARMOR trashing Goliath, with at least one shot of Xanatos with the helmet off.) Or my favorite, Robotics? (Footage of COYOTE trashing Goliath. This obviously doesn't apply to the four humans, but I want to get it in here to hint at Coyote's rebirth as well.)
Obviously, they are all very interested. Dingo goes for the armor and pretty much writes off the rest as horror show. The other three don't state their preferences. Coyote Head: "All made possible by the men and women of XANATOS ENTERPRISES." Where is Xanatos? Occupied at the moment, but happy to be of assistance.
5. At the castle, Xanatos and FOX seem to be playing chess, but we don't get to see the game board or the pieces. Xanatos has made the first move.
6. Super: ONE MONTH LATER. Clock Tower. The trio are just leaving to patrol the city separately and in competition. They've hardly done anything else, each is so intent on being Goliath's second in command. Hudson's in his comfy chair with the t.v. set on, but he's not watching. After the trio leave, he chides Goliath, who has to decide between the three young warriors. Goliath seems strangely reluctant to choose.
Just then ELISA enters. The desk sergeant just received an "anonymous" tip on the Pack's location. S.W.A.T. Teams from three precincts are mobilizing. But Elisa has listened to a recording of the tip and recognized the voice as Xanatos'. She'd like to be there in an unofficial capacity. Goliath agrees. No time to wait for the trio, but the Pack can be tough, so they'll take BRONX. They leave in such a hurry, Hudson doesn't bother to turn off the t.v.
7. An abandoned building scheduled for demolition, which the police have totally surrounded. The S.W.A.T. LEADER talks through a megaphone, giving the Pack a chance to surrender peacefully. There is no response. Tear gas canisters are shot through the windows -- followed by an explosion that practically levels the building. The tear gas couldn't have caused that. The building must have been rigged to blow.
Goliath, Elisa, Hudson and Bronx watch from a nearby rooftop. At first they don't notice the little Coyote Head, which zips around the site like a humming bird looking for food. Then the head spots them and approaches. It tells them that this little display was just designed to attract their attention. If the gargoyles really want to find the Pack, they're going to have to follow the head, which they do.
8. Goliath, Elisa, Hudson and Bronx follow the Head to a construction site. It's the skeletal beginnings of a skyscraper. As soon as they arrive the new ARMORED DINGO flies in. After Dingo, comes the new CYBORG JACKAL and HYENA, followed finally by the new WERE-WOLF. Our heroes are surrounded.
9. Picking up where we left off, we have a fight. The Coyote-Head zips away and with Hudson's blessing Goliath follows it. (He thinks it will lead to the source of the trouble.) Although the Pack works together, there are hints that they are in some competition with each other. Ultimately, the Pack knocks out Hudson, Elisa and Bronx, with Wolf personally taking down Hudson.
Elsewhere in the structure, Goliath catches up to the Head which says that it would like to introduce Goliath to its "better half". A huge shadow looms.
Back with the Pack, where we get a sense of the tension between the members. As Dingo takes off his helmet, hint that he hasn't been able to get over the horrific things that his teammates have had done to their bodies. We also find out they've been fighting over who should lead. They agreed before the fight that whoever took out the biggest gargoyle, would get to be the leader. Wolf took out Hudson, so he feels entitled.
On cue, Goliath is knocked through a brick wall. He falls unconscious at their feet. And then the rest of the wall is knocked down to reveal the new robot COYOTE-II: "Sorry, Wolf. I think my Goliath tops your Hudson."
The Pack are all stunned, but for Hyena it's love at first sight: "Coyote, honey, is that you?" A panel slides open inside Coyote's chest to reveal the Coyote Head literally plugged into the inner workings of this huge machine. No way Wolf is taking orders from a machine. No one ever said Coyote was part of the contest. Wolf is still leader. But Hyena disagrees, she's siding with her new boyfriend. Jackal can't believe his sister has fallen in love with a glorified toaster oven. He's not exactly Wolf's biggest fan, but he's got to go with old furball. They all turn to Dingo to break the tie. Dingo looks at his helmet. He makes it clear that he's not wild about his options: a robot who thinks he's human or a lunatic who gave up his humanity. But he turns to Coyote and says, "O.K. boss, what's our next move?"
10. Back at the Clock Tower, the trio are each getting back after a night of competitively patrolling the city alone. Lex prevented two muggings. Brooklyn prevented one mugging and scared off a burglar. Broadway stopped three muggings and an armed robbery: "Just have to know where to look," he says proudly. Then they realize that the tower is empty. Even Bronx is gone. And if Hudson and Goliath lugged Bronx along with them it must have been trouble.
11. Cut to the interior of some kind of hanger for the Pack Attack Vehicle. We do not get an exterior to show us where we are, but we do hear a train go by every minute or so. Goliath, Hudson, Bronx and Elisa are in a glass chamber filled with a colored gas that keeps them unconscious. Wolf isn't at all pleased about waiting around. How is sitting on their hands going to help them find the other gargoyles? But Coyote has a plan. It's midnight now. At 4:30 am they'll release Bronx from the chamber. He'll almost definitely lead them straight to the Gargoyle's Home Base. And he should get there just before sunrise, allowing the Pack to arrive just after sunrise and smash the remaining gargoyles into gravel.
12. In Xanatos' office, he and Fox are still playing chess. Xanatos: "You're in check, my dear."
13. The trio are still waiting for Goliath et al at the clock tower. It's 3 A.M. and they are very worried. It's only a couple hours 'til sunrise. And no sign of Elisa either. And the tension isn't doing wonders for their dispositions. They argue over what to do. The television gives them a clue when a report comes in about the bombing at the abandoned building. The report mentions that the fire was contained because the police were already on the scene, having received a false tip that those escaped felons (and former television stars) known as the Pack were there. They're about to head out to investigate, when they hear "The following is a paid commercial message." Lex recognizes the voice as Fox's. Brooklyn didn't think Fox was still in the Pack. But the commercial continues. "Tired of walking up Lexington Avenue? Sick of taking the bus down Broadway? Fed up with driving your car to Brooklyn? Then take the subway!" And an image appears on the screen of a place where multiple tracks criss-cross above ground. Well, that can't be a coincidence. One of them recognizes the location, he's flown over it. But is this a tip or a trap? Well, what choice do they have? Off they go.
14. Trio arrive at Train crossing. Again, there are multiple tracks crossing in multiple directions, and every minute or so, another train rushes by at high speed. They find a large metal shack, that's supposed to house train cars or something, but is acting as a hangar for the Pack Vehicle instead. They sneak in and get a look at the upgraded Pack and their sleeping friends. Broadway and Lexington are all for mounting an immediate attack. Brooklyn is reluctant. Just look at the size of Coyote, who's in the middle of putting a tracking device on Bronx. They need help to defeat these guys. But where are they going to get help? From Goliath and the rest. Our priority should be freeing them. Both Broadway and Lex try to peer pressure him. Maybe he's afraid to fight without Goliath, but they're not. But Brooklyn isn't biting. He's not scared, and he's also not stupid. They need a plan.
A little bit later, Brooklyn makes his presence known and then takes off as a decoy. Coyote figures as much, but Wolf and Jackal won't listen to reason and take off after him. And right after they leave, the power goes out inside the hanger, thanks to Lex. Dingo reaches for his helmet, but it's not there. Broadway has it and throws it with all his might at the sleep chamber. The helmet smashes a hole in the chamber, allowing the gas to pour out. But meanwhile things don't look good for the trio. Coyote slams into Broadway carrying them both outside. Hyena and Dingo pursue Lex.
So outside the battle continues amid the backdrop of unpredictable and speeding trains shooting past on random tracks. Eventually, however, Brooklyn's delaying tactic pays off. The others have been given the opportunity to recover from the sleep chamber. They join the fight, and the tide of the battle turns. The Pack is defeated. GARY, LET'S DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PACK AT THE END OF THIS SHOW.
15. Back at the clock tower, Goliath realizes that tonight's events only prove what Hudson has been saying all along. He must choose a second in command. He's had a choice in mind for weeks, but has been reluctant to reveal it, because he was afraid that it would drive a wedge between the trio. But tonight they worked together and saved the clan. He has to trust that they are mature enough to handle this. He chooses Brooklyn. (This without being aware of who spear-headed tonight's success.) The others are genuinely happy for Brooklyn. He proved himself to them. They take their places outside and Brooklyn looks across the city. A siren wails. He shakes his head and tells Goliath to be careful. He's in no hurry to take his place. They turn to stone.
16. Dawn. Fox says checkmate, and we reveal the board with its pieces based on our characters. She knows her husband doesn't like to lose. Is he upset? Of course not, he's happy to have an opponent to match his skill. Made the game more fun. "Care to play again?" FADE OUT.
Is any of the trio alive in 2198? How about the trio¡¯s children?
You mean not counting Brooklyn who TimeDanced there? No.
I noticed that Lex and BW seem to fight very well together starting from about the time Brook became second-in-command on through "The Journey".
1) Was that intentional or a) just a fluke or b) am I reading to much into something that isn't really there?
2) If the first is true is it because a) they really also fought better together or b) maybe they were a little closer than Brook is with them or c) is it more to illustrate how Brook started to feel isolated.
1. I think you're reading too much into something that was ALREADY there. All three of them (or any two) fight well together. That at least won't change as they all grow.
Let me make something clear. I've stated that (especially with "The Journey" and my plans for "TimeDancer") that the old Three Musketeers go everywhere together Trio would become a thing of the past. That they would grow as gargoyles into adults and each find their own lives.
But let's not overstate this. The three of them will always be best friends. All three of them. Whatever, wherever and whenever life takes them, they are brothers. Nothing will ever separate them, save Death. And even that is debatable.
in the Wyvern years, was the Trio kinda outcasts or loners of their generation? it seemed to me that they generally just stuck together with Bronx and didn't interact much with their siblings. am i right about this or did we just not really see their relationships with their siblings due to lack of time?
Mostly the latter. I certainly wouldn't call them outcasts. I just think they were best friends.
What is the signifigance of the clones names? The only name I recognise is Hollywood. Why did Demona choose them?
Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank are all part of the Greater Los Angeles Area. Demona chose those names to spoof what she views as the idiotic name choices that the trio and Hudson chose for themselves.
In "Deadly Force", the trio describe "Showdown" as a "new movie", but it's a black-and-white film. Were the trio using the word "new" in a comparative sense (the same way that Lexington described Shakespeare as a "new writer" in "Enter Macbeth"), or was it genuinely a recent film that happened to be shot in black-and-white rather than color?
It was either the latter or a restored rerelease of an old film. Either way, it was new to them.
Hey, Todd, I hope you'll post a Gathering Diary here. I'd like to read it.
I was reading your MEMO about "The Silver Falcon." fro the archives...
I got to thinking... This type of epidode wouldn't have worked with Brooklyn or even Lexington... these type of characters almost need to have other gargoyles around. You couldn't ahve a hole epidose of only Brooklyn or only Lexington. Lexington and brooklyn don't have human connections like Broadway. He shot Elisa. This brought them a bit closer than the others.
Do you agree or dissagree?
I agree that Broadway shooting Elisa brought the two of them closer together. (Though they were already close.)
But otherwise, I disagree. Either Brooklyn or Lex could carry an episode on their own. I think we more or less proved that with Temptation and Thrill of the Hunt.
I know other characters were involved. But Lex and Brooklyn each carried those shows.
before the Wyvern Massacre did the Trio have any love interest among their peers? any "girlfriends" or whatever gargoyles have? esspecially Brooklyn, was Maggie his first crush or has we just seen the last two of a series of Brooklyn crushes?
I'm not telling at this time.
befor ethe Wyvern massacre, did the trio often seem to get in touble? when Goliath approached them in the courtyard and said, "you three! down to the rookery until i return..." it seemed as if this wasn't the first time they had caused trouble or at least not the first time Goliath had yelled at them... were they troublemakers of a sort among the clan?
They got into their fair share.
Why did you send Brooklyn on a forty-year journey? Why not Broadway or Lexington?
On at least one level, because that's how it happened. That is, the characters seem to tell me what happens to them next. It just seems right.
But basically, I felt Brooklyn needed to get away, break out. This was symbollically the most extreme way. BW and Lex don't need to leave.
in "Awakening" we see Bronx playing with the trio. was Bronx more often with the trio then other gargs or was he just playing with them that night? what i mean is, was Bronx more a pet to the trio or had more of a connection with them than other members of the clan?
you said that Iago decieved Othello and Desdemona in 993 and that he was banished after that, but he came out of his banishment in 994, in time for the massacre. is all that right?
why was it such a short banishment?
how do gargoyles decide on how long to banish a clan member?
does the whole clan decide the banishment time/punishment or just the leader?
was Goliath in effect banishing the trio but only lightly when he sent them to the rookery or was that a common punishment for young gargs?
That's basically right.
The banishment was for a year, which isn't that short considering he didn't kill anyone. He was just causing trouble. (Whispering in Othello's ear, causing Othello to act like a jerk isn't that big a crime, I guess.) Also, Iago may have done something to get back in everyone's good graces. At least begrudgingly.
The leader makes the final decision.
He wasn't literally banishing them. Sort of telling them to sit in the corner. It was not an uncommon punishment. But it was mostly done just to temporarily difuse things while he was gone for what he assumed would be a short errand.
When did Lexington and Brooklyn learn how to read? Was it before or after the thousand-year-sleep?
Lex before. Brooklyn immediately after. At least in my mind.
There are several types of Characters on the show.
Hudson is like a grandfather if you know what i mean.
Goliath is the typical parent.
The trio are the teens.
My question: there is no gargoyle around the early to mid twenties range (something like Beth Maza.) Was there ever a problem not having this type of influence?
Did you give some of the qualities that a character of this age group my have to other people?
Well, the Trio are in their late teens. (And Beth was in her early twenties.) So I'm not sure if the distinction you're suggesting isn't a heck of a lot subtler than you're indicating.
Greg, in a reply to matt's question you said Boudicca is older than Bronx. But how could that be since Bronx was with the rest of the clan in 994 A.D. and I'm guessing Boudicca is a beast which hatched with the rest of the garg eggs that were taken to Avalon? How could Boudicca be older than Bronx if this is true? I would not think that is should have to do with anything about how time passes more slowly on Avalon either, because logically Bronx would still be older or about the same age even though he was stone for a 1000 years.
Boudicca is biologically older than Bronx. Bronx is chronologically older than Boudicca.
Boudicca is the same biological age as Angela, who is approximately the same biological age as the Trio. (Though CHRONOLOGICALLY, the Trio is MUCH older.)
Bronx is chronologically twenty years younger than the Trio. Biologically ten years younger. Which makes him approximately ten biological years younger than Boudicca.
oh, and also in the age of characters list you said that Yama is 29 and Sora is 19. their mates, and i thought there were never mates from different generations, Broadway and Angela being the exception. i figured that gargs mated among their rookery siblings because that way they wouldn't find a mate in a close (i.e. brother and sister) biological relative. so is it common for gargs to mate between generations? or are Broadway/Angela and Yama/Sora very different from the norm?
Broadway and Angela are a very unusual case for OBVIOUS reasons. (He was asleep for 1000 years. She grew up on Avalon. As a result they are nearly the exact same age biologically.)
Yama and Sora are atypical. But their love is not unheard of.
I don't ever recall saying that gargs from separate generations couldn't or wouldn't mate. It's just not particularly common.
i was surprised that you said that had the Wyvern massacre not happened Brooklyn would probably still have been chosen as a future leader of the clan. i guess i always thought that Goliath chose Brooklyn out of lack of other options, that he was the best among the trio, i suppose his leadership qualities would've shown up in any event, huh?
But I'm not big on hypotheticals.
when the clan moves into the clocktower, the clock doesn't work and later on it does, i'm assuming because Lex fixed it like he said he could. what did the people of New York think when suddenly the clock was working again, wouldn't someone go up there to investigate at least?
i realize its another stupid question, but i figured i'd ask anyway...
Lex was constantly fixing the clock. It was constantly breaking down. (You'll notice that sometimes the time on the face made sense. Sometimes it made no sense.) Before Lex, workmen did the same thing but had largely given up due to municipal budget cuts. No one noticed that it continued to be inconsistent.
in "Awakening Pt 1" we see, briefly, another gargoyle with Lexington's wing structure. cosidering how rare it is, would it be safe to assume that the gargoyle was a close relative biologically to Lex, like his father or older brother? was that gargoyle one of these?
Maybe. Though I never said it was rare. Just rarer.
Okay, maybe you won't reveal Lex's mate, but will you tell us if he has any childrens>?
Sure, all the eggs of certain generations would be children to every member of the Clan including Lex.
QUIT THINKING LIKE A HUMAN!
Evidentally, I went out of town in late June / early July of 1993. My very capable and talented Development Associate Paul Lacy was holding down the fort.
Walt Disney TV Animation Japan had been asking for a more creative role in the division. Gargoyles would represent a new opportunity for them. (Something that I believe Roy Sato could comment on more directly.) Paul wrote up some character descriptions for Goliath and the Trio to get them started. This document, as far as I can tell, is the first one in which Brooklyn and Lex were assigned the basic personalities that they'd wind up with. Previous to this, the two characters had always been assigned each others traits. So I think we can credit Paul (or his confusion, at least) with giving us the Brooklyn and Lex we now know and love.
Also by this time, we had moved away from a female Broadway. One of my bosses, Bruce Cranston, still raised the suggestion that we go back. But I believe my other boss, Gary Krisel (and Kenner) wanted as many males in the group as possible.
July 2, 1993
Gary wants to give Tokunaga, the head of the Disney Studio in Japan, a shot at showing us what they can do design-wise with the GARGOYLES, so he wants us to send them descriptions of GOLIATH, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY. The descriptions need to be brief and put in general terms to allow them room to be creative.
I've enclosed my pass at these descriptions for your changes. Although I remember the "types" we were thinking of for Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway, I don't remember who was assigned which attribute. Bruce asked about making one of the kids a female, should we open that up to the Japanese as an option?
Gary and Bruce looked at these today and I incorporated their changes. We need to get these to Lenora Hume early Tuesday so she can fax them to Japan.
Hope you had a great trip. See you on Tuesday.
And here's Paul's memo to the Japanese Studio.
GARGOYLE DESCRIPTIONS (Lacy 7/2/93)
Below are general descriptions of the look and feel of GOLIATH and the three teen-aged Gargoyles, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY.
The Gargoyle-master. Physically imposing, muscular. At least a head taller than an average human. Weighing approximately 500 pounds, Goliath is solidly built. Although he possesses many human-like features, Goliath's gargoyle features set him apart from man. When angered he resembles a raging beast. When relaxed there is a gentle nobility to his appearance ... in a strange, rugged way, he's handsome. Goliath's wings enable him to glide and, as such, must be big enough to support his weight. They are not simply attached to his back. Rather, they are an integral part of his skeletal and muscular structure, as organic to him as arms and legs are to humans. When sitting, Goliath's wings drape around him like a cape. When spread wide, they act as a backdrop that frames his body.
BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON AND BROADWAY
As adolescent gargoyles, they're awkward and not as physically developed as Goliath. To a human, however, they're still imposing and beastly. Although the three are part of the same species, each one is physically different enough to establish their individuality.
BROOKLYN: If there's a leader of the group, it's Brooklyn. He's the most physically fit of the group and is the one who most aspires to be a gargoyle warrior like Goliath. In the modern world Brooklyn wants to be "cool" and stylish, following all the current trends.
LEXINGTON: The smallest of the group. He's not as muscular as his pals, though he still is powerful. Lexington natural resting position is more a squat than the other two. Lexington is fascinated by gadgets: in medieval times it's catapults and siege engines. In modern times it's airplanes, traffic lights, video games, etc.
BROADWAY: The chubby one, Broadway's also bigger than the other two. Despite his fat, he has well defined muscles like the other gargoyles. Broadway is happy go-lucky, always looking for a good time.
Some of different wing types for these three characters include sprung from the back (like Goliath) for gliding, attached to the back but too small to be of any use, draped from the arm (like a bat), or non-existent.
Here we go again...
1) Will Goliath and Elisa ever have kids?
2) Will Brooklyn and Katana have kids in the 2008 rookery?
3) Will Lexington?
1, 2, and 3. They will be parents to all the children of the clan.
i thought i'd share a interesting story:
i know alot of people write in here and in other sites, etc. about how Angela should have ended up with Brooklyn and not Broadway. Greg, you are so right in your reasons why Broadway and Angela ended up together and i'm happy to say that i knew they would, but the funny thing is why i believed that they'd end up together. when Angela first joined the cast i figured that she'd end up with one of the trio (although i did think there was something between her and Gabriel, but thats another story). of course, i wanted to know which one she would end up with so i began to think about these four characters. my analysis, correct, but flawed, was that Lex was too small in stature, Brook had a beak, so kissing was very hard to do, so it had to be Broadway. until i started posting here i didn't know that kissing wasn't a garg custom, afterall, Coldstone and Coldfire kissed in cyberspace, Elisa kissed Goliath, and Angela kissed all three of the trio on the cheek and later Broadway on the mouth. i thought, how can Brook kiss Angela with that beak! i know its stupid and i really should have learned that there were other factors but i guess i couldn't get past garg appearences, i'm such a human...
Yes, such a human. Angela's choice (if you want to call it that) had little to do with beaks or height or weight. It was the garg inside.
Re your comment on changing Broadway's character from female to male:
Well, maybe it was cowardice, but I'm certain that it was a good thing for Angela that you did. She wouldn't have been able to have had a S&P-approved relationship with Broadway otherwise, after all :)
Now, I can't really imagine it any other way.
More of a comment than a question:
I think I know why everyone thinks that you were hinting at Angela-Brooklyn rather than Angela-Broadway.
Brooklyn, as you've noticed, is a popular character. He's my personal favorite. People recognize him as the member of the trio most oriented toward romance. He has the instances of Maggie and maybe even Demona (TEMPTATION), while Broad and Lex don't have any. Some viewers even consider him the "leader" of the trio, (I'd myself never thought the trio had a "leader" to itself, but some people have...) and traditionally, the leader gets the girl. You also have several instances where Brooklyn patrols with Angela and no other members of the trio, which could be interpreted as further indication that since they are literally "together" (as in in the same place) they are figuratively "together" (as in a couple.)
*Shrugs* Just my take.
Well, Brook is CLEARLY the leader of the Trio. Particularly after Goliath makes him second in command of the clan.
Demona in Temptation is pushing it. (Sorry, Christine.) But there are two indications of Brook falling hard for a dame: Maggie and Angela. Both crushes, based on nothing else but physical appearance and apparent availability.
And I don't think we put Angela with Brooklyn anymore often than we put her with the other two. People saw what they want to see.
But at any rate, I'm not surprised people saw it going that way. Like I've said, it's the obvious choice. We just didn't feel it was the right choice. The characters told us different.
by the time of "The Journey" does Demona know about Broadway and Angela being a couple? if not, when does she find out?
1)Just out of plain curiosity, why did Angela have the get "involved" with any one of trio? Did you ever consider just having her go with nobody? She just seemed to me as somone who was more interested in having family relationships with her parents versus a romantic one.
2)This may answer my first question, but in regards to having Angela go with Broadway, did you do it to set a good example for children? I mean,Broadway didn't exactly have the charm of a knight in shinning armor,and he was also fat which would have taught kids that "looks are not important,it's what's inside" So again,it makes sence and I was just wondering if that's why you decided to do it.Thank You!
1. She didn't "have to" (I assumed you meant "have to" and not "have the"). But she seemed to me to be a young blossoming woman-garg, who might eventually be interested in both familial and romantic ties.
2. I wasn't unaware of potential lessons, I guess. But the answer is no. We did it because it seemed right. Gary Sperling and I sat down while working on "Turf". I felt that it was important that Turf not reveal a choice for Angela, but rather her independence. But I also felt it was important for us to know who (if anyone) she was going to wind up with. Brooklyn was in many ways an obvious choice, but as we discussed it, it soon became clear that they were a bad match. That she was just another pretty face for Brooklyn to get a crush on. But that Broadway, the sensitive, intuitive soul, would appeal to something deep inside her. And she to him, as well.
Silly hypothetical question.
What do you suppose Broadway and Angela were thinking when Othello suggested that he and Desdemona keep possession of their (Broadways and Angela's) bodies? Assuming they could hear them the way Brooklyn could Iago.
They were probably SCREAMING!!
What would you think?
What made you decide to make Broadway male, when you'd originally had him a female? I personally think it works better this way, but I'm curious.
We were afraid to have a female character who loved to eat and was overweight. We were afraid that various groups with all sorts of agendas would attack the show, missing the forest for the trees.
"Why are the only two female gargoyles in the show evil and/or fat?"
Plus, we were constantly being told that the series would only appeal to boys. And that boys don't like female characters. Both of these notions are dopey. Particularly the second one. (Can you say "Lara Croft".) But if someone hammers you with a notion often enough, it's hard not to subscribe to it a bit.
I'm not proud of our cowardice, but I think Broadway became a great character, and now I wouldn't go back and change for the world.
on several occasions throughout the series the trio and Hudson mentioned or went to various movies, including Bambi, Star Wars, and all the cop movies Broadway watched. what were their favirote movies? also, when the trio went to see "Bambi" they had been in New York less than six months, i can't believe with all the movies they had never seen, they would have seen "Bambi" at least twice as evidenced by the line, "I don't remember any explosions in Bambi". it was funny but as an 18 year old male myself, i can't imagine why "Bambi" would hold such interest to them.
I've seen Bambi many times. It's pretty cool. Have you seen it recently.
Hudson's favorite show is Celebrity Hockey. His favorite cartoon character is Donald Duck.
They all used to be big fans of The Pack. But times change.
in "the cage" when the trio returned from a concert in the park what concert was it? i heard it was the "smashing pumpkins".
Who might it have been in late 1995?
Do the trio have any blood-siblings on Avalon>
what is Goliath's reaction to Broadway and Angela's relationship? what is Demona's?
I think he's pleased.
Demona's probably conflicted. I don't think she likes Broadway, simply because he's alligned against her. But I don't think she's rooting for her daughter to be alone either.
I asked this question before and you responded
"I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it."
So now I'm resubmitting it:In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?
I think Goliath and Demona mated a tad young. A few of the Trios contemporaries may have mated at the time of the massacre, but most would not have.
On my last question you repost: Define "love". Well, I know that Brooklyn didn´t really love Angela from our point of view. But from his point of view, he is in love, and so, I think, he would tell angela, that he is. So, will he ever?
They might have a conversation some day. But not until after the TimeDance, when it's WAY moot.
Some Trio questions:
1.: Will Brooklyn ever tell Angela that he loved her? (In Goliath Chronicals, he never did, and that was one of the things that gets the show down)
2.: Ummh... how could I say? Ok, let´s try it with this: Will Lex ever step away from the right way? (hope you understand:))
3.: In the old episodes, Broadway has that nasty comic image. In your future plans, would he get more seriously?
1. Define "loved".
2. I understand, but you don't really expect me to answer that do you?
One piece of rambling/thoughts that I've had on Broadway for a while, and finally remembered to post here.
You've mentioned in the past about Broadway being a gentle soul at heart and the most perceptive of the trio (which was a major factor in he being the one who wound up with Angela). One thing that's occurred to me is that Puck must have noticed that, given how he handled Broadway in "Future Tense".
In "Future Tense", Brooklyn and Lexington are both extremely bitter at Goliath for going away for forty years (Lexington, in fact, turns out to be worse than bitter, and I got the impression that Goliath's long absence was a major factor in his turning evil). Broadway, however, welcomes Goliath back gladly, saying that what's important is that he's returned, and mentions that he never gave up hope that Goliath would come back someday. That definitely stood out all the more in contrast to Brooklyn and Lexington's attitude.
Also, Broadway definitely got the most moving death scene in the entire episode ("Yes, the sun. Can't you see it, Goliath? It's beautiful."). I don't consider that just an accident, either. Puck may not be omniscient (definitely not in light of his having to hurriedly invent an explanation for Thailog's absence when he found out from Goliath that Thailog and Demona had been mates), but he's clearly got a good handle on Broadway's character, I'd say.
Yep. Puck and me and Michael Reaves, anyway.
you've said that lex was pursueing angela mainly because his brothers were and lex is the only trio member without a known future mate, so is lex gay? are there gay gargoyles?
sorry if you find this question offensive, im just wondering
I don't find the question offensive at all. But I also don't want to answer it at this time. I've given away Brooklyn's mate, so I want to keep people guessing about Lex as much as possible.
And yes, there are gay gargoyles.
did Brooklyn have some sort of attraction to Demona in temptation?
why is brooklyn so damn horny? (no pun intended)
Maybe a bit. But I wouldn't take it too far. (Though I know others have.)
Why is any teen-age male so damn horny?
Written by Steve Perry. Story Edited by Michael Reaves.
It's really just a coincidence that we watched this so close to Halloween (11-2-00). I wasn't trying for that. This was just the next episode in the sequence. Still, when I mentioned before we started that this was the Halloween episode of Gargoyles, the kids got very excited. Erin pointed at the framed cell we have in our bedroom which depicts Goliath and La Belle Elisa dancing. She remembered that it came from the episode we were about to watch. Benny then commented that Elisa and Goliath are going to get married. Erin, who has a clearer memory of the last time we completed the 66 episode sequence corrected him. But I said something cryptic, like you never know. Erin said I needed to make more episodes so that we could find out. From her mouth to God's ears.
In general, the kids were very verbal during this episode, or at least Erin was. Benny started out verbal, but fell asleep with his mom rubbing his tummy somewhere during Act One.
In the opener, a classic scene I think, when he first saw Xanatos and Fox together he said: "That was you, Erin. I was him." in reference to the Fox and Xanatos costumes they wore to the Gathering 2000's masquerade.
Erin really bought into the tension of the episode. And it is very tense. Some terrific pacing to this. She remembered this one with much greater clarity than most. "Uh oh. That's not just any necklace." Etc. Personally, I just love Xanatos' pragmatic proposal. The truth is X should have already known that he was truly in love with Fox. I've just done some research into sentencing while working on and reworking my Gargoyle timeline. Fox & Wolf each received a 16 month sentence for briefly holding that model hostage in "Thrill of the Hunt". They had the opportunity to be parolled after eight months. They were rejected. Instead of waiting a mere eight more months for them to be released free and clear, an impatient Xanatos sets up the events in "Leader of the Pack". Is that a man in love or what? Nevertheless, we get his whole "We're genetically compatible and have the same goals" speech. She asks about love, and he feels himself largely incapable of the emotion. He thinks he's too amoral for that. "I think we love each other as much as two people like us can." (Or something like that. I'm approximating all these quotations.) It's fun.
Then comes the sequence in Mr. Jaffe's store. Erin is still very tense: "Uh oh, that's Fox. She's wearing the necklace." and "She wants to stop it [the necklace] with one arm. But she doesn't want to with the other." Here, Erin's hit right on Fox's internal conflict. Part of her is fighting the Eye, but part of her wants to surrender to its power. When X first confronts her in her bedroom, and when the Werefox emerges and attacks, it doesn't shred him. It throws him down on the bed. There's some powerful primal energy swirling 'round that room. Lucky thing Owen is there, or I'm not sure Xanatos escapes with his dignity intact.
Xanatos takes note and activates Plan A, which will be followed by B and C. And a makeshift D. It becomes almost a parody of all his contingencies and "Xanatos Tags" from previous episodes. For once, he's out of control. And he can't bear to admit it. He pretends (even to himself) that he just needs to recover the valuable Eye of Odin, when what he obviously really wants is to save Fox. "...I'd never have just given it away. Ah, well, spilled milk." (I always thought that was a great and yet feeble cover for his real feelings.)
Speaking of the Eye, how many knew back when it was intro'd in "The Edge" that it would be so important? As I think I've mentioned, the Eye was actually the creation of Disney Interactive which was working on a GARGOYLES VIDEO GAME at the time. They told us about the Eye, and I loved the idea and decided to incorporate it into the show. Unfortunately, we didn't use their design, which had this great crow/raven theme to it, appropriate to Odin. Instead, our design always looked vaguely Egyptian to me. I can't remember, but I think that maybe they're design wasn't ready when we needed to complete our model for "The Edge". Or it might have been poor communication. The Eye was designed at Walt Disney Animation - Japan. At any rate, we knew from the gamer folk that the Eye had metamorphic powers. But I wanted to be more specific. Yes, it would grant power, but it had to grant power that suited the legend of Odin's Eye. The Eye traditionally provided Mimir with the gift of sight. That easily translated to "insight" for me. Which is a kind of power in its own right. The Eye in the Gargoyles Universe would externalize and amplify a major trait of the wearer. And, yes, even then I had plans to eventually intro Odin himself and have him stick the thing back in his empty socket.
I think that shot from inside the elevator shaft when Fox smashes her way in is very cool.
Owen with an Elvis tribute: "Fox has left the building."
--The Eye of Odin, of course.
--Mr. Jaffe's poor grocery store.
--X's commando squad (including Bruno) is at the ready, yet still unprepared for the Werefox's fury.
--Since "The Mirror", Goliath is more open about his growing feelings for Elisa. She again defuses things by turning his concerns for her into a more objective statement about friendship.
--Goliath is back in the library. This time studying Werewolves. The information won't be useful, but isn't that just like him?
--Elisa immediately jumping to the conclusion that the were-thing is another of Xanatos' mutated victims like her brother.
HALLOWEEN - The trio are very excited to be able to stroll into the open. "No one'll know who we are." Better yet, "No one will know WHAT we are." The taste of conformity they got in "The Mirror" has opened a window on their need to be a part of something larger than the clan.
Another cool visual: Fox and Goliath circling each other, with Fox on all fours.
I love when Goliath tries to reason with Fox. "If Xanatos is your enemy, then believe me, WE are your friends." How little he knows. The Werefox immediately attacks him. Still conflicted. Throughout the story, Fox fights, but the Eye reasserts.
Time for Plan C. But Owen has noticed the flaw in Xanatos' usually stellar power of contingency. X claims that all he cares about is the Eye. But he's only setting things up so that the gargs will get the eye. Subconsciously, all he wants is Fox. But we have Goliath arrive and interrupt just at that moment so that neither X or the audience has time to focus on the contradicition.
X breaks down. Appeals to Goliath. He's out of control. Up to a point. ("Old habits die hard -- he still has the forsight to plant a bug on Goliath ala "Awakening, Part Three".
Gotta love Goliath's line: "Not a good night for you." It's great as a writer when you can legitimately turn the tables and give Goliath a Xanatos line.
Broadway REALLY wanted to dress up as a Detective. So he's got a new trenchcoat and hat. Brooklyn, ever the swashbuckler, is a pirate. And Lex... hmm... what should we make Lex. We settled on a pilot, in keeping with his helicopter prowess, I guess. But it was never too clear what Lex would or should be, and I can't help thinking that Lex had trouble deciding on a costume too.
Of course, Goliath doesn't wear a costume.
Vinnie has a line here. Though officially, it's not Vinnie's first appearance, this one line of Jeff Bennett spoken dialogue "A costume over a costume." is the obvious inspiration for all that followed with the Vinster.
And I love Keith as that witch saying "That is a great, great costume." What a great, great line reading.
BEAUTY & THE BEAST. Finally, we get to hit the nail on the head. A moment so romantic (in a very romantic episode) that even the characters take note. Elisa lets her self go for a moment. Goliath just is. The kids are happy for them.
But "Things are not always as they seem". Goliath breaks the moment by attacking a guy in a werewolf costume.
Note: That Goliath now refers to Manhattan as "My castle, my city." A year earlier (more or less) he was calling it Xanatos' city. I love the notion that Goliath sees hope in Xanatos LOVING someone. And of course, he's right. Xanatos' love for Fox (and later Alex) will result in Goliath getting the castle back. Not war, but love.
Brooklyn and Lex finally get to eat pretzyls. Remember that in Awakening, Broadway ate them all. Meanwhile Broadway eat's a hot dog and BELCHES MIGHTILY. This was really more about all of us indulging ourselves in low humor. We put the burp into the script. Bill Fagerbakke burped loudly. But our sound effects guy Paca Thomas, put in the burp to end all burps.
--Lex gets very intense (briefly) and wants to go after FOX. He still hates anything or anyone connected to his Pack experience.
--The return of Brendan & Margot.
Gotta love Elisa's costume. Holster for a garter belt. Very sexy. Solved our nudity problem with Fox too. I'm amazed we got away with that.
In a larger sense, I'm amazed we got away with the entire episode. I was very nervous that the notion of X and Fox getting engaged would be rejected. But the BIG BOSSES didn't focus on the fact that the engagement might lead to marriage. And fortunately, they weren't paying attention when that engagement led to marriage, pregnancy and a kid. I don't think they would have allowed it.
I could have done without Broadway eating his hat.
Fox's internal conflict is visualized when she sees Elisa as herself and attacks to silence that human voice inside her once and for all.
When, in slow motion, Goliath intercepts Fox and saves Elisa (who's usually fairly self-sufficient) it may be the purest moment of Hero saving damsel we have in the series. The dress helps of course.
A little HIGHLANDER inspiration here with Fox and the exploding sign.
I love that Owen's right there with the helicopter.
X is still trying to interpret things to suit his old (and dated) world view. He thinks Goliath is trading the Eye for Fox, which of course he wasn't. Goliath doesn't think that way.
"Now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love a weakness."
"You've never looked more heroic."
"A momentary lapse, I assure you."
All great lines.
Let's go home.
And Owen, who signed on BECAUSE Fox and Xanatos were so interesting to the Puck, SMILES.
And now a word about the episode from Erin Sydney Weisman (she typed this herself):
I am most interested in this episode. And the episode I watched was a spooky episode. And I liked the episode, because it was a very enchanting episode.
In response to my last question,(IE: Why did Lex create a business) you responded "because it was there".
Are you saying that the business Lex "creates" isn't created at all,but commandeered?
Was the business given to him by a still unknown (to us) character?
No. He saw a nitch and filled it. With his partner.
(But mostly I was being a smart-ass.)
I'm just curious to know how Lex, Brook and Broadway became friends.
They're brothers basically. They grew up together.
Dear Mr Weisman,
I'd just like to congratulate you on the Angela//Broadway relationship. What with Brooklyn being my favourite character, at first I wanted to see him win Angela's affections. However, you've opened up some very interesting possibilities (jealousy on the part of both Brooklyn and Broadway). However, how (if at all) did you plan to involve Lexington in such a story? After all, he, like Brooklyn, could be considered a lonely heart now.
Lex would no longer be part of the Angela "hunt". For that matter, neither would Brooklyn. Both of these guys would have to go out and find love on their own. Separately.
I herd that in the future Angela and Broadway would have
kids.Just how meny kids will they have.
I'm well aware that this is a stupid question, but will Broadway ever loose any weight? I mean, he's a great character, I love him to death, but I think people sometimes can't take him seriously 'cause of his weight.
He won't lose weight. But he may get taller and the weight may distribute a bit differently... (See "Future Tense")
But he'll NEVER be svelt. Not as long as I'm in charge.
And if people can't take him seriously because of his shape, then they have a serious problem with appearances. And they DON'T get the show.
How old are Brooklyn , Broadway and Lex and how did you create their characters ?
In 1994, they were 1036 years old. But the human equivalent of 18. How we created them is a long story, I suggest you look through the "Original Development File" archive here at Ask Greg, and if you still have questions come back and ask 'em.
This is going to sound amazingly retarded but are Coldstone and Broadway related? I ask this because the two have similar skin tones, the unique 'fanned' ears, and Coldstone's hair is white like Broadway's father, Hudson (assuming Hudson's hair has always been white). Hudson supposedly has a child from Goliath's generation, so that fits with Coldstone. Spurious evidence perhaps, but nothing ventured nothing gained. Feel free to hand me the dunce's cap. <:(
God, I need sleep.
They may be related -- they're from the same clan after all, but they aren't biological brothers if that's what you are asking.
One more question comming up from the archives:
In an message, "Puck 40" told you some of his favorite episodes. Then he says something like "I hate Broadway, but in Future Tense, he was fantastic", or so.
Then, in your awnser, you wrote "What, you hate Broadway?".
Well, it may surprise you, but there are MANNY people, that really HATE Broadway!!! Well, I could live with the charakter, but sometimes, he is just so dumb and stupid...wooah! Then it is really hard to like him.
He is the last "Comic remained person" in Gargoyles, I think, cause he allways done the wrong thing, like in "Deadly force".
And then the thing with Angela... some are really expecting that Brooklyn would be her mate, but then he choses Broadway, and some people I know, are sitting with a confused look in front of theyr tv, saying "WHAT??".
But I won´t tell to much, here comes my question:
What did you like on Broadway, and what did you hate on him? It would be nice, to see what you are thinking about him. I hope, that you could get some good words for him.
I don't hate anything about him. And I'll all but guarantee I've given him more thought than you. I also don't think he's stupid. He was immature when we first met him, but he's arguably matured more than almost any other character. The hard way. He's sensitive. Attentive. Learns from his mistakes.
Seems like a great guy to me. And to Angela as well.
How did Lex get dressed? I've heard the backstory about the Mage of Rome and all, but adopting minimum human body taboos seems like a bit of a challenge (at least!) for web-winged gargoyles.
He has pierced wings.
(re-post) ..*hits head* *grumbles* ya..I knew that..why did I post all these together..*sighs* ok here they are again!
1) Did Lexington _willingly_ ally himself with this partner knowing fully WHO the person was? (IE: was this a silent partner or did he actually have contact with the person and know basic things like there name, sex, SPECIES? *L*)
2) Did Lexington _willingly_ ally himself with this partner knowing full well their true motives? (whatever they might be..)
3) I suppose this is a dumb question considering we are talking about Lex here..but are we talking about a software type company? Games? VR systems like Future Tense? Or did you not have anything SO specific in mind?
4) Can you tell us why Lexington started this business at all?
5) Have we seen or heard of this partner yet? (*L* You said I might find this partner surprising.now is that ME or everyone else included? *jk*
6) You said this company would have reprocusions (sp) all the way up to 2158 (hopes she got that date right!)
Would these reprocusions be bad, good or a little of both? (mostly bad..mostly good..etc. etc.)'
Dare I ask a Lexington's mate Q? ^_^ ..ahh..you don't have to answer that one..
7) Will Lexington's mate be 100% gargoyle?
8) How long does Lexington's company last?
Ok..your right..I used the word 'depressed' out of line. How would I know if he was or not? Sorry bout that one.
1. He knew.
2. Who can ever know someone's true motives?
3. I have something very specific in mind.
4. I could.
5. I'm not answering that now.
6. I'm not answering that now.
7. I'm not answering that now.
8. I'm not answering that now.
In the original wyvern clan didd you knoww who lex's mother would be
Lex had a lot of mothers. Quit thinking like a human.
You said that Broadway has a sibling, presumably a sister, named Hyppolyta. Where is she currently--- on Avalon? Was she slaughtered at the Wyvern massacre?
She's dead. I'm not saying more than that now.
Wow. Thanks. Yeah!! All of you! What are your top five favorite episodes and WHY? I'd really like to know. I'm guessing we'll get a lot of repetition, but what the hell.
You hate Broadway?
To which I respond....
I *used* to despise him. He never openly just popped out and was fun for me. Out of anyone on the show, he was the comic relief or stupid one, and I could've done without it. Brook I like for his sarcasm. Lex had the fun intelligence. Hudson wisdom. Goliath leadership. Bronx loyalty. Broadway... comic relief?
Thats what he seemed to be about at first. Or he was the one that made the mistakes. Firing the gun shooting elisa. He came across as really stupid that episode to me. When he wasn't stupid, pissed to the extent that... it was his fault, and it seemed like he was taking all his problems out on others. I mean... *poor* Glasses, to be picked up by your head like that. A very one tracked mind. He had a little saving grace in the Silver Falcon. You seemed to be trying to smarten him up. With Lighthouse too(i know I listed out of order). Though that episode have to admit... I wasn't paying attention to Broadway at all. Was trying to ignore him and just watch Macbeth with the Arthur speech. hee hee
Anycase, when he was portrayed in Future Tense. My opinion changed somewhat. I mean, this was what he could've become. Not blind, but he had the common sense, he didn't seem naive. regular series he would've of pressed that button on his collar until someone told him too probably. "Already on it Lex". He seemed like he had the experience of life. He came across as generally with a lot of development. I hope Puck was foreshadowing something there with him.
I hated Broadway. I see him more as the sensitive deducting one now with potential. So now I more tolerate him. Afterall, he did have that moment when I genuinely liked him in Future Tense.
I'm glad your assessment softened a bit. But frankly, I think your earlier assessment was fairly harsh.
We got comic relief from nearly all our characters. No more from Broadway than anyone else, it seems to me.
Broadway, of course, was the "sensitive one" (as opposed to the "sarcastic one" and the "intelligent one", I guess). Nothing wrong with that in my book. All three of the trio made mistakes. In fact all of our characters have made mistakes. Broadway's BIG mistake in Deadly Force was just way more serious in its consequences than most. But one could argue that Brooklyn's mistake in Temptation was more active and could have had even worse consequences. Etc.
Broadway, for part of that episode, did take his mistake out on others. Many of us react that way. In the end, he stood up and took responsibility for his actions. And that was before he knew Elisa was alive, to "tell on him".
But, hey, just my opinion.
This isn't really a question as much as a statement. I used to think Brooklyn and Angela should pair up, but after reading your dozens of responses, and upon closer inspection of the three eligible males Broadway was the better choice. He truly cares for her.
Anyway keep up the good work.
Thanks, Justin. I appreciate the consideration.
1. Do Brooklyn and/or Lexington have any biological siblings on Avalon? Perhaps other blood relatives?
2. Does anyone in the Garg universe know or find out that Broadway and Hudson are related?
I know that these are questions that wouldn't matter to a gargoyle, but I was curious. :)
2. A non-issue. So no. I don't think so. (Unless I find some dramatic purpose for it that overwhelms what I think is the coolness of no one knowing OR caring.)
I recently watched my tape of "Upgrade", and that prompted a fresh question on my part. In this episode, Goliath finally fills the SIC position, left vacant ever since Demona parted ways from the clan in "Awakening". What interested me was that Goliath took so long to finally think about appointing a second-in-command. "Upgrade" is 25 episodes after "Awakening Part Five", and in terms of the series' internal chronology, probably over a year later, but only now does Goliath finally get around to start looking for somebody to fill the second-in-command slot, after Hudson tells him that he needs a designated successor in case some enemy of the clan does kill or permanently incapacitate him.
So why did Goliath take so long to start looking for a new SIC? Was it anything to do with the fact that Demona had been the last one?
Not really. Mostly, I don't think that anyone was qualified at first. Brooklyn emerged as a leader. He didn't start out as one.
I think Goliath was de facto counting on Hudson to be his second.
Hi Mr. Greg,
I was just wondering in Gargoyles why did you put in a sarcastic gargoyle Brooklyn. I like him being funny in all and I think his sarcasm really lightens things up when times get rough for the Gargoyles(after all he is my favorite character because he's funny).Though whose idea was it to make a sarcastic gargoyle?
I think nearly all of them are capable of sarcasm. Brooklyn moreso than the rest, maybe, but I can think of sarcastic lines for everyone. I'm not sure it was any one person's idea. Sarcasm is just fun to write. We did want to have Young Gargs With Attitude. That was planned.
Um, just one question. I heard a rumor that Hudson was Broadways father, is that true?
Biologically, it's true.
I have Brooklyn questions.
1) Were there going to be conflicts between Goliath and Brooklyn (Second In Command).
2) Before he goes on his timedancing adventure will Brooklyn try a few more times to woo Angela.
3) Will Goliath consider turning over leadership of the clan to Brooklyn?
4) Will Katana join Brooklyn willingly or be dragged into the travel?
1. Occasionally. Nothing major.
4. Willingly sorta.
were did you get the picture fo brooklyn holdiing the surfboard
I didn't. I don't know where that came from. You'll have to e-mail Gorebash, I guess.
You recently mentioned in your "Leader of the Pack" ramble about Hudson's good eye for deductions and strong tracking skills. It occurred to me that this is almost a parallel to Broadway's gift for strong perception (manifested in such cases in the series as his understanding not to call Angela "Angie" before she shouted "STOP CALLING ME 'ANGIE'!" and his recognizing what Elisa was up to in "Protection"). Are these similar traits of the two gargoyles what gave you the idea for Hudson being Broadway's biological father?
They didn't hurt. Probably contributed. But I'd be lying if I said it was that conscious a decision.
The fact of Broadway and Hudson's (largely unimportant) biological relationship just seemed right to me. Another message broadcast from the Gargoyles Universe, I guess.
In THE JOURNEY, Broadway said something like 'I can't concentrate on my reading because Goliath is missing.'
Did he say this because he really couldn't concentrate on his reading or because Angela was standing right next to him and she just happens to be Goliath's daughter, who obiously had something on her mind?
By the way, I think Broadway and Angela work well together as in most cartoons it is always the 'cool one' (Brooklyn, in this case) that gets the girl, and I could see that in HUNTER'S MOON that Broadway did have real feelings for her and see her as another female. Just my opinion.
I agree with you. I think Broadway had a lot of reasons for having difficulty concentrating. You named a few of the best.
What's up, Greg? Angela was such a sweetheart and so innocent in the show's second season. When The Goliath Chronicles started with "The Journey", how come Angela's personality kind of changed? She totally ignored Brooklyn, in which she was just an "item" with him at the end of the last season. Why did you have to change Angela's personality? Thanks!!
<Sigh.> Here we go again.
O.K. For starters, I didn't change Angela's personality one bit. Now MAYBE the guys who were in charge of the final twelve episodes of Goliath Chronicles did. I can't say. But I had nothing to do with any Goliath Chronicles episodes after the first one: "The Journey".
Having said that, Angela and Brooklyn were NEVER an "item". NEVER. Brooklyn certainly had a crush on her. But so did Lex and Broadway. And Broadway's feelings for her were deeper almost from the night they met. And if you caught the look they exchanged at the end of "Possessions" you would have seen that the only "item" in works was Angela & Broadway. In "The Journey" we simply made that official. That disappointed Brooklyn, but you could hardly say that Angela was "ignoring" him. She didn't even know he was eavesdropping on her and Broadway.
And none of this has anything to do with changing her personality. She's still, largely, a "sweetheart". Though she was always a warrior too. And no, she's not QUITE as "innocent" as she was -- she couldn't be after all she experienced -- but she was never exactly jaded. Certainly not in "The Journey".
I was very intrigued by that little revelation of yours about Lexington going into business with an unexpected partner. I hope that you get to tell that story some day if "Gargoyles" gets revived. I'd certainly enjoy seeing how Goliath would respond to Lex entering the business world - and Xanatos's response, for that matter. (Although we know already that Lex isn't the first gargoyle to do this sort of thing - given Demona and Thailog's foundation of Nightstone, and maybe Leo and Una's shop in London to boot).
It's more intriguing then you know and will have ramifications that will extend beyond 2158.
1) What will be the reason(s) why Broadway and Angela name their children after Arthur and Gwenivere? 2) Why do they name their third child Samson? 3) Will Lex be anyone's biological father? 4) Will Samson? 5) Will Bronx?
1. There are many reasons. One that I'm happy to reveal is that after Broadway's experience in "Lighthouse" and Angela's experience on "Avalon", they're both fans.
2. This may get reworked in the revised Gargoyles 2158. As soon as I have the new "future history" nailed down, I'll make a general announcement.
3. I'm not telling.
4. I'm not telling.
I'll come out of the closet and admit that I'm a Trio fan, so this may be biased. I felt when Goliath, Angela, and Elisa went on their Avalon quest that the Trio back in Manhattan was very neglected(in terms of air time). This, I thought, was an obviously important time for them (even Hudson probably) as they are finally separated from Goliath. I thought the episode Kingdom wasn't enough to display the changes I felt in them after Goliath returned. What do you think?
I obviously thought that we were featuring the best stories we had in our arsenal at that time. Given an unlimited amount of episodes, I would have loved to have ALSO spent more time on the Trio and Hudson. But that's water under the bridge...
Hey dare again,
WELL I feel better..after 4 years of complaining,"WHY didnt they do more on Lex??, you pointed out that you did indeed wish you had gotton a chance to do a lil more development.
Hey, I understand. Inside and outside the Gargs universe, nothing is FAIR. I know that. But still *sighs* so much on Broadway and Brooklyn..and well, while there was indeed character development on Lex, it always did seem to me to be a bit..well negative. I KNOW, I KNOW! Its not all unfounded, Lex was going to be put through some really rocky times had the episodes gone on a lil further. But it would have been nice to get a lil more from his point of veiw. I mean, we got to know him as this cute lil innocent thinker in the first 5 ep's. Then In 6 he wanted to reach out to the world. Then after that..any episode even remotly revolving around him had the pack involved..so ofcourse he was peeved and not acting rationally. *realizes she ranted* ups..sorry
My Qs are.. 1) If you could add a few more ep's of Lex in there right now would you?
2) If so, what would you have liked to have shown us about his character? There is such a wide rang of fiction on Lex..I know you dont read that stuff. But ppl seem to be so confused weather to take him as misunderstood or ..supten else..
*arches a brow at you* YOU just love that stuff dont you? *shakes her head as your evil laughter echos through the room* *l*
Uh, what "stuff" do I love? I'm confused.
1. Not if they were at the expense of what we did do. But I'm not denying there's more to explore there.
2. Him. (I don't know how to answer this here. Maybe I don't understand the question.)
Outside the case of Goliath and Elisa, Brooklyn's attraction to Maggie seems to be the only case where we saw hints for an attempted interspecies relationship... Since (if I remember correctly) the rest of the Trio didn't seem particularly interested in Maggie, and we certainly know that it was not 'true love' on Brooklyn's side... what does his attraction to Maggie signify? By that I mean, is it that her mutation gave her a form which was closer to his gargoyle standard of beauty (so that he pretty much considered her a gargoyle)? Or is Brooklyn more likely than his siblings to pursue *any* sentient female, regardless of species? :-)
Hmm... that was a rather muddled question, wasn't it... Ah well...
I think she looked gargoylean to him. (Making allowances for his assumption that there were no other (Non-Demona) female gargoyles left.)
I was wondering if Broadway was the best warrior/fighter of the trio from purely a skills POV? I say this because Iago was "disapointed in Brooklyn's fighting skills" in Possesion. Its also not hard to tell that Broadway is the strongest of the trio, which suggests that he would make the best fighter (whether or not its because of an unfair advantage he was born with). Was he possible spending more time training back in the pre-massecre (sp) days while Brook or Lex were off learning to read? Learning to read doesnt happen overnight. He must have been doing somthing during all that time, and I'm sure he didnt spend all of it eating. ;)
I wouldn't take Coldsteel's words too seriously. He was operating Brooklyn's body at the time. I think he was just making excuses.
Brooklyn, Broadway and Lex each have different fighting styles. They're all accomplished warriors. Broadway does have the advantage of bulk and strength, but I doubt he trained more than wanna-be-leader Brooklyn.
Just got done reading your commentary on, "Thrill of The Hunt". Loved it! hmm did that have anything to do with the fact it was on Lex?;) Anyway, You sorta answered a Q that I had written down at work today. Here is my Q.
As you just mentioned, Fox and Lex are almost instant a allies due to Alex. My Q's are.....
1) Were you planning on Lex and Alex's relationship to play a major or minor role? What I'm trying to ask is, were you just planning on having it be a nice side thing like a few shots of Lex playing with Alex or whatever..or were you going to make acutall episodes around it..was it going to play a big enough role to call it a role? *kicks herself* IM saying this all wrong!! *sighs*
2)Would Lex and Alex still be buds as he grows up?
3) What role do you think best describes Lex and Alex's relationship overall from his childhood to adulthood? IE: Alex trusts him as a confidant? Would Lex be more of a buddy? Mentor?
1. Yes. I had at least one story in mind where Alex is kidnapped by Raven. Lex would have been very involved in saving him. That story became an episode of Goliath Chronicles -- one which I don't like much, but which wasn't as annoying as some of the stories that followed.
3. Older Brother.
Nope..still not done yet..
Ok, I put this in a separate post _just_ in case.
1) Could you tell us what the episode, "Ransom" would have been like if you had had more control over it?
I put this in a separate post cuz..as you may notice you have answered this one from me before. I admit that. Its just that when you did it was awful vague. I was just wondering if right now you could tell us something more besides, "It was pretty much the same plot except the kidnappers were from Avalon." Ok they were from Avalon?
2) Would we have seen these characters in any episodes after Ransom?
We never saw Puck in TGC. But im SURE Alex getting kidnapped would have warrented a Puck episode;)
3) Would Puck have been the first one to know and not his parents?
Everyone got together trying to figure out how to go about getting Alex back
4) In the ep you had planned, would it have been more of a Puck/Lex teamup?
5) Where would've the mystery characters from Avalon taken our lil prince?
U know..Q's like that?
1. Is that quotation an actual quotation or a paraphrase? I can't imagine that's what I wrote. It certainly was never going to be the same plot. It was a Tricksters story. Initially it was to include Owen/Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote. Plus Lex and the Family Xanatos. I think as time has gone on, I would have dropped Anansi and Coyote from this one. Focused more on Raven as the Trickster/Villain. Saved the multi-Trickster episode for another story.
2. In that season or ever?
3. Uh, I don't pretend to have every little detail worked out. I never actually wrote the story, I simply proposed it. They took a kernel of it and turned it into Ransom.
5. Don't know.
I'm not sure when I'll get around to viewing the next episode of Gargoyles with my family, but I thought I'd get ready to ramble by posting my November, '94 memo to story editor Cary Bates. This was Cary's first Gargoyles script, so he was still new to the characters, which was one of the reasons he started with a single gargoyle story. Just Broadway, Elisa and a little Matt, basically.
You'll notice in what follows that some of the big twists still weren't present at this stage. We just hadn't cracked it fully yet. As I recall, Development Associate Eddie Guzelian suggested making the OLD MAN into Dominic Dracon. I was probably resistant a bit at first, just because of how much work that change would involve. But we all realized that Eddie's idea made the story much, much better. So the change was made...
Anyway, here's the memo, unedited as usual:
Notes on "The Silver Falcon" Outline...
My main problem is that as a mystery story, this is a bit of a dud. We want to stump our audience, but here, we're cheating to do it. There's no way they could figure out where the diamonds are. We don't show them any options but the red herring. And if we did show them the true location, the answer becomes too obvious, and frankly not tricky enough. There's a silver falcon gargoyle on top of the speakeasy. There's another on top of the building across from Malone's office. We check both. One has it. One doesn't.
We need a double entendre here somewhere. We're looking for a silver falcon, and it turns out to be something that isn't literally that. Or in this case, Malone is being literal -- the jewels are in the silver falcon across from his office. But for most of the episode, we're looking for a more obscure answer, i.e. the speakeasy itself. Best not to have a literal silver falcon gargoyle in the vault at the speakeasy.
Even so, it's pretty straightforward. So let's make the whole situation more mysterious. Let's not learn what Matt was up to quite so fast. Let's not have Elisa be a Mace Malone expert. Let's not learn about the loot at all until act three. Let's misdirect more.
We also need secondary suspects. I suggest the Illuminati. That's the name of the Secret Society that Matt's always going on about. It'll be a huge red herring, if even Matt thought he was investigating the Illuminati, when in truth he stumbled on something considerably more mundane. For us, this would accomplish two goals. One, it misdirects Broadway, Elisa and the audience. Two, it sets us up for a future story where we actually use the Illuminati.
You get major points here. The theme is partnership, and it's presented clearly. Let's just give it more of an arc. Elisa doesn't have to be thrilled to have Sam Broadway Spade as a partner at first. She learns to appreciate the back-up.
You need to start thinking about the Audience you're writing for. Vogel's murder in the other premise, was never gonna fly. Likewise, here, a major clue revolving around alcohol consumption is definitely out. I wouldn't be afraid to do a story about alcohol, if we were really going to focus on that issue, but not as a throw away.
Don't make him or his rookery brothers too young. They can have the occasional childlike response, but don't overdue it. Showing them enjoying a cartoon is one thing. Generalizing that they always are watching cartoons makes them sound like kids. Think of 19 or 20 year old Viet Nam Vets. These guys are warriors.
Also, when he's stone, Broadway is WAY TOO HEAVY for Elisa to budge.
And as flesh, Broadway getting shot is like anybody getting shot. Fatal. Or maybe he'd just bleed to death before sunrise. Even if sunrise were close, without surgery to remove the bullets, he wouldn't heal. Basically, what I'm getting at is that the gargoyles are NOT invulnerable.
DRACON AND GLASSES
Dracon is young and hungry. He's tough, violent, savvy, sarcastic. It's not that he can't get angry, but please resist the temptation to show him throwing temper-tantrums -- ranting (and whining) like a cliché d foiled villain.
He's got money, but he doesn't have the high-tech resources of a Xanatos. We have to be sparing with our use of that stuff. Which does not mean we can have massive gun battles with real bullets. (For S&P reasons.)
And if Dracon is not Xanatos, Glasses is not Owen. Glasses shouldn't quietly clear his throat so that he can feed his boss a plan. It's not that Glasses is stupid, but he's not the brains behind the organization either. He's an aggressive, tough and violent street thug in expensive clothes.
Let's also keep clear on Dracon's motivations and how they differ from Elisa's. He wants the loot, but he doesn't want to have to flee to South America with it. He's crossed the line by kidnapping two cops. He's going to have to kill them.... So he frees Elisa to follow her to the diamonds? Major problems all around. 1) Why does he think Elisa will be able to find them? 2) Why does he think she's even going to try after she's freed her partner? She has no motivation for finding the loot. She's a cop who's out to save her partner and bust the guy who kidnapped them both. (It's not that I don't buy her being curious. But that can wait until after Dracon is in custody.) 3) After she drops Matt off at her place, why don't Dracon's men sneak in and kill the unconscious detective? After all, they can't let him live. What are they waiting for? For him to wake up and come take them out? Etc.
Also, blowing up Matt's apartment is cool, but it has to feel like more of a last resort. Dracon doesn't want to draw any more attention to Matt's disappearance than necessary.
And, please note in your script that Dracon has a white streak in his hair from his previous encounter with the gargoyles.
CHAVEZ & BLUESTONE
Please do not play Maria as a callous boss, who doesn't care that one of her detectives has gone missing for two days. And yes, Matt's into secret society's and the like, but he's not the type to blow off work for two days in a row. Despite Matt's paranoia/hobby, he's a good partner and a good cop, someone that Elisa and Maria can count on.
On the other hand, Matt isn't psychic. He's seen gargoyles at a distance, but he knows nothing about them. Certainly, he has no idea of Elisa's connection to them. There's no way he'd casually decide that a "gargoyle" helped them crack a case. Why would it?
And we must resist the constant temptation to knock Matt out so that he doesn't find out the truth. We don't need it here. So I cut the drugged sleep.
Let's change Hacker into a real character that we might want to re-use later. An FBI agent who used to be Matt's partner before Matt was booted out of the bureau for investigating the Illuminati Society. The bureau doesn't officially acknowledge the Illuminati's existence. (All this will be a revelation to Elisa. She didn't know Matt had ever been in the bureau. Her surprise about this will add to the general feeling of mystery in the story.) Matt is persona non grata with the FBI, and Agent Smith (or whatever) can no longer be seen with him, which explains the clandestine meeting.
For future reference, the library is the other face of the same building that houses the twenty-third police precinct, above which is the clock tower where the gargoyles live. The library is closed at nights, and Goliath often reads down there. But I've cut the library scene, so it doesn't matter here.
1. Make the setting someplace other than a slaughterhouse, but otherwise MATT's kidnapping can play pretty much the way you had it.
2. Two days later at ELISA's place. BROADWAY is there to watch his video of the detective movie, (because Hudson is sick of him playing it over and over again on the tv set at the clock tower). Elisa gets a phone call from CHAVEZ. (Intercut.) Matt took some personal time to investigate Bigfoot or something. But he hasn't checked back in 48 hours, which isn't like him. And there's no answer at his place. Elisa hasn't heard from him either. This isn't good. Elisa's going to check on him on her way to work. Chavez makes Elisa promise to call for back-up if there's any trouble. Elisa says, yeah, sure, whatever.... (But she doesn't really think she needs any help.) Broadway overhears and wants to come along. He'll act as her back-up, her partner until she solves the mystery of the missing Matt. But Elisa's got one partner already. She doesn't need two. She'll handle this alone.
3. Matt's apartment. Elisa's outside Matt's door. She rings bell, knocks, calls for him. What she doesn't know is that the place has already been ransacked and that the ransack-er, a man dressed all in black and wearing a black SKI-MASK, is still inside. Plus another, bigger man in a trench coat and slouch hat (think Ben Grimm) is out on Matt's small terrace/balcony. (We should momentarily think these two men are working together -- the man on the balcony acting as look-out for Mr. Ski-Mask inside, but in reality, Ski-Mask is one of Dracon's men, and the guy on the balcony is Broadway. So in fact, Ski-Mask is unaware of Broadway's presence.) Elisa reaches above the door and finds Matt's spare key on the molding. She does not take out her gun. She is not expecting trouble. But inside, as she unlocks the door, Ski-Mask has his gun out and ready. Which is more than enough justification for Broadway to rip the terrace door right off and reveal himself, in a decidedly monstrous fashion. (NOTE: He does not crash through the glass!!) The clothes he's wearing should increase the scare factor, not make him look silly. By the time Elisa gets the door open, the terrified thug is pushing right past her and high-tailing it down the empty hallway with Broadway (who pauses only to say "Got you covered, partner") in close pursuit.
Ski-Mask makes it to the waiting elevator, and the doors close before Broadway can get to them. But Broadway pulls the elevator doors open and grabs the moving cable, which strains against him, until the elevator stops. Then he leaps down (about a flight) onto the roof of the elevator, shaking it's occupant. He rips open the trap door and yanks the guy up. By the time a stunned Elisa gets to the elevator, she barely misses getting hit by the flying thug whom Broadway has tossed out of the shaft. Ski-Mask crashes into the corridor wall and is temporarily knocked out.
Broadway climbs out of the shaft only to face the wrath of...ELISA. She definitely isn't pleased. But she's not going to fight with Broadway out in the open. They'll discuss things privately, in Matt's apartment. She indicates the thug. "Better bring him too."
Inside Matt's place, Elisa searches the thug, while she verbally chews Broadway out for interfering. She removes the ski-mask, but she doesn't recognize the guy. She does find a page that the thug clearly ripped from Matt's calendar with today's date, a time and a specific location (just saying Central Park isn't enough, it's a big park). Ski-Mask starts to come to just as Broadway suggests checking Matt's computer to see if they can find any info there. The thug panics, tipping Elisa off that the thug had rigged the computer to blow. She tries to stop Broadway from flipping the switch, but it's too late.
Cut to outside Matt's window. There is a brief high-pitch whine, during which Broadway leaps out holding both Elisa and the thug -- and then BOOM!! The force of the explosion propels them across the gap to another lower rooftop. (Broadway can't spread his wings because of his trench coat.) They land hard. Broadway drops both humans and the momentum nearly takes him over the roof. Elisa helps him up, and by the time they turn around, the thug has split.
Now Elisa is really ticked off. But Broadway points out that he did just save her life. Only after creating the dangerous situation in the first place, Elisa reminds him. Broadway's embarrassed, but tenacious. Look, it's obvious that Matt was working alone and got into something way over his head. If Elisa tries to handle this alone, the same thing could happen to her. We get tight on Elisa. What will she decide?
4. Elisa arrives alone at the meeting described on the page from Matt's calendar. She cautiously approaches a man, who turns out to be Matt's ex-partner from the FBI, AGENT SMITH (or whatever). It's tense at first, but once Elisa identifies herself, Agent Smith is very cooperative. Matt's told him that Elisa is all right. A good partner. (Elisa's a little embarrassed.)
So Smith fills her in. As usual, Matt's been trying to prove the existence of the Illuminati Society. He's been investigating a gangster from the 1920's who was rumored to have ties to the Illuminati and vanished mysteriously on March 22, 1924. Matt had found a letter, that he wanted Smith to authenticate. The letter was hand-written on Malone's pre-printed stationary:
3150 Third Avenue #45D, New York
March 21, 1924
Our little Society is turning a nice profit.
Everyday I see the Silver Falcon, I smile. You
would too, if you knew what I knew.
Your Senior Partner (and don't you forget it),
The ink and paper do date from the 20s and the signature checks out too. The letter is legit. But where did Matt get it? Smith doesn't know. What's the Silver Falcon? Smith doesn't know. Who's "D.D."? Smith doesn't know.
Smith isn't happy to hear that Matt is missing. If he can help Elisa in any way.... But Elisa insists she can handle it from here. So Smith takes off. Elisa stands there examining the letter. She seems to be talking to herself. The only real lead it offers is Malone's address, but what good could it be 70 years later.
And Elisa may never find out. Suddenly, we discover that Elisa is surrounded by three BAD GUYS, led by Ski-Mask. It looks bad.
5. Elisa calls out: "Broadway, NOW!!" And Broadway comes out from wherever he's been hiding and takes out two of the thugs. But Ski-Mask hops into a getaway car that pulls up fast and takes off faster. Elisa handcuffs the two unconscious thugs to something, but she's worried. She doesn't know if the escaped thug heard her talking about Malone's old address. They have to get there before the Illuminati blow it up like they did Matt's apartment. Broadway sweeps her up and they're off.
6. 3150 Third Avenue. 45th floor. Elisa's inside. Broadway watches from the roof. (We need to somehow establish that Elisa and Broadway both might have seen the Falcon-heads across the street -- and yet we need to do it in a way that doesn't immediately tip off our audience. One thing that would help is if the chrome falcons were now literally black with NYC soot and grime.)
There's a light on in 45D. An OLD MAN answers Elisa's knock. He's an accountant, working late. She realizes it's a long shot, but wonders if he knows anything about Mace Malone. Turns out that he's something of a Mace Malone buff. That's why he rented this particular office. He's got Mace's original desk and everything. Here, sit down.
Mace's mysterious disappearance makes him a curiosity, and every once in a while someone stops by and asks questions. Why just the other day, that nice red-headed boy was here. Elisa realizes he's talking about Matt. What did the old man tell Matt? Nothing. He ran out of here, as soon as he saw the picture. What picture? This one. It's an old photograph of Malone and a couple of other men (at least one of which is Dracon's grandfather) in front of a non-descript building. Does the old man know where this was taken? Sure, that's Malone's old speakeasy, the Silver Falcon. He gives Elisa the same lower east side address he had given to Matt, and the same caveat... the Falcon was torn down ages ago, they built something else there. Elisa thanks him as she ushers him out of his own office. It's temporarily unsafe here. She asks him to call Chavez and fill her in on everything he told Elisa and Matt, (and also about the two hand-cuffed thugs). She's heading straight to the lower eastside, as the crow flies, so to speak.
7. Elisa and Broadway arrive at the scene-one location where we last saw Matt. They soon discover GLASSES and his salvage operation. He's clearly digging for something, but what? Matt is there. Tied up and blind-folded. But before they can get near him, Broadway's weight collapses the wooden staircase, and they're discovered. A brief battle ensues. Glasses and his MEN use their semi-hi-tech construction equipment as make-shift weapons. Plus maybe a stick of dynamite or something. There's a cave-in that buries Elisa and Broadway. Glasses turns to Matt and taunts him. So much for the cavalry, Bluestone -- That was your partner. And she's dead.
8. Cut to a small cavity, with-in the cave-in. It's pitch black except for Broadway's glowing eyes. Elisa asks Broadway if he's o.k. He says he is but his voice is clearly straining. As she fumbles for her pocket flashlight, Elisa points out that there can't be much air in here. Will Broadway be able to use his claws to dig them out? Broadway has a couple of problems with that. The main one being that he's starting to feel real tired and that can only mean one thing. What? But Broadway is strangely silent and his eyes stop glowing. Elisa finally clicks on her flashlight and looks. Broadway's frozen in stone.
9. Outside, the sun has come up on a new day. Inside the cavity, Elisa realizes that when the cave-in occurred, Broadway acted as a living pillar, straining under the weight of a lot of rock and dirt, protecting them both from being buried alive. Now he stands there frozen like a medieval column. There isn't anything she can do but start digging.
10. Out in the main cave, Matt convinces Glasses to try and dig Elisa out. She's probably dead anyway, but she might have Malone's letter. If she does, Glasses' boss can stop looking for it. Glasses isn't dumb. He knows that Matt is simply trying to save his partner, but he can't deny Matt's sound logic regarding the letter, so he sets his men working.
11. Dissolve to a short while later. Glasses' men are getting close to Elisa, who's dug a little of the way out but is running out of air. She can hear them getting close, and she can't let them find Broadway in his vulnerable state. So to protect him, she pulls down one of the rocks above her own little dugout, and allows herself to be buried alive. Fortunately, she's timed it right. Glasses digs her out, but to all appearances, she's lucky to be alive and the guy in the trench coat is still buried under all that rock. She has Malone's letter. So the guy can stay buried.
Finally, DRACON arrives with the Ski-Mask guy from Matt's apartment and the old man from Mace's old office. Ski-Mask got to the old man before he could call Chavez, so there's no help on the way. (And Elisa realizes that the few minutes it would have cost her to call Chavez herself would have been well worth it.)
Dracon's fairly annoyed that Glasses hasn't finished digging through to the vault yet. Glasses explains the delay and produces the letter. But Dracon, shakes his head. We don't have to worry about someone else getting the letter, if we already have the loot. Dig out that vault!!
Loot? Vault? Dracon? What's going on? Matt fills Elisa in. Malone's letter didn't refer to the Illuminati at all, but to a bank robbing syndicate that included both Malone and Dracon's grandfather, Dominic Dracon (aka D.D.). Malone disappeared before he got around to telling Dominic where the loot from all their heists was. But the letter suggests that it might be here at the speakeasy. It wasn't found when the place was demolished decades ago, so Tony is convinced that there must have been an underground vault.
But how did Matt get involved? Matt had found the letter, among the younger Dracon's papers when Dracon was arrested months ago for grand theft. (Dracon's case is still pending. He's out on bail.) Matt investigated on his own, thinking he was on the trail of the Illuminati, and accidentally stumbled on this. Dracon kept him alive, because they wanted to make sure the letter was out of circulation. They didn't want anyone else stumbling on their little operation, before they had the loot. Matt apologizes for not keeping his partner up to speed. He really screwed up by acting alone.
Finally, Glasses hits pay dirt. There is a vault. Soon, they're burning through that. They break through. And inside... nothing. Nothing but a note:
Dracon is furious. But Elisa's not surprised. If the loot had been there, Dominic would have found it when he first received the letter seventy years ago. He must have been pretty confident it was here, or he wouldn't have gotten rid of Mace the day he received the letter. Dracon's a bit embarrassed by Elisa's superior powers of deductive reasoning. Embarrassed enough to tell Glasses to "take care of" the three hostages. But Elisa stays their hands by telling them she's figured out where the loot is hidden. Dracon demands to know where. But Elisa's not dumb. If she tells now, then she, Matt and the Old Man are wormfood. She's willing to take Dracon there. But it's pretty public, they'll have to wait until after dark, and we push in on the mound of dirt where Broadway is buried.
12. Let's indicate some passage of time here. The sun sets. Then we return to the underground chamber. No one's there at all. Broadway bursts from the cave in. He's panicked about Elisa. He finds Mace's second note and reads it with great difficulty. Will he figure everything out?
13. In a helicopter above the city, Dracon, Glasses and Ski-Mask are escorting Elisa, Matt and the old man to the roof of the building opposite Malone's old office. Matt whispers a warning: "They'll kill us as soon as you show them where the loot is." But Elisa says, "Don't worry, I've called for back-up. I think."
The building's too old to be equipped with a heli-pad, but Glasses manages to get close enough to allow Dracon and Elisa to jump onto the roof. Once on the roof, Elisa explains that from Malone's desk across the street, you can see these black bird-heads. And sure enough when she wipes the grime of seventy years away, she reveals the silver-like chrome beneath. Dracon probably has to check a couple heads, before finding the little bag of precious jewels that Mace had the bank loot converted to.
Now all Dracon has to do is get rid of his trio of hostages. He invites Elisa to step off the side of the building. And to his surprise she does.
Of course, she did it because she had already spotted Broadway, who catches her. (He didn't know anything about the loot or Dominic Dracon. But Mace's 2nd note invited "D.D." to guess again. The falcons on this building were the only other place Broadway could think of to check out. He's just glad he guessed right and that he was in time.)
Ultimately, Broadway takes out the chopper, without revealing himself to Matt or the old man. With Matt's help, Glasses, Ski-Mask and Dracon are all taken down. (This can all play largely as you had it.)
Matt thanks his partner Elisa for pulling his fat out of the fire.
14. And in the TAG at the clock tower, Elisa thanks her partner Broadway for doing the same.
That's it. Call me if you have any questions.
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.
It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]
But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.
On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.
At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)
Family Reactions #1
During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.
Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.
"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.
Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.
Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.
I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?
I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?
Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.
I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.
We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?
Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."
As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.
Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.
Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.
And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.
Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.
Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.
I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....
Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)
Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.
Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]
Ben then asked why she was transformed.
Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.
Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.
KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!
Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.
Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!
But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]
I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."
FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.
Cool little touches:
Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.
She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.
Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.
Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.
Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.
Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.
Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.
FAMILY REACTION #4
Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."
More sappy stuff (which I love):
Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."
Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.
That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.
Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.
Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.
In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.
But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.
I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.
where did you get the picture of brooklyn on images
I'd like to ask your opinion on a ramble that I've written.
One of my all-time favorite episodes is POSSESSION. In POSSESSION, Broadway, Angela, and Brooklyn were vessels for the spirits of Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel. I have always believed that there were reasons for this.
As I see it, Broadway and Angela were possessed by the lovers, Coldstone and Coldfire for a reason. I always thought that it was a subtle way to hint that it would be they that became a couple themselves. Brooklyn was used by Coldsteel because he subconsciously possessed jealousy toward Broadway for his success with Angela that Coldsteel harbored for Coldstone about Coldfire. I was lead to believe that especially where Brooklyn/Coldsteel was going to carry the unconscious Angela/Coldfire away because of his jealous lust for her.
Those are merely my assumptions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It's a chicken and the egg thing.
Did the Coldtrio's unbound spirits sense something or cause something?
At any rate, behind the scenes, we certainly used it as a stepping stone to an eventual Broadway/Angela relationship.
Written by Brynne Chandler Reaves & Lydia C. Marano
Story Edited by Michael Reaves
Well, I watched "Lighthouse" again last night with my family. First thing I noticed was the bad "Previously" recap. This is all my fault. The recap features Macbeth, because I wanted to make sure the audience knew who he was. But that blows out the first act surprise reveal that he's behind it all. Up to that point in the story, you'd be thinking Xanatos. But because of the dopey recap, you know it MUST be Mac. Later in the season, after I got hammered over these recaps by the folks on the Disney Afternoon e-Mailing list, I learned never to put anything into the recap that wasn't revealed in the first five minutes of the show to follow. But here's a perfect example of me screwing up my own mystery.
We introduce archeologists Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smythe. Dr. Duane was named after writers Lydia Marano and Diane Duane. Professor Morwood-Smythe was named after writers Arthur Byron Cover and Peter Morwood. Arthur is Lydia's husband. Peter is Diane's husband. I don't know anyone named Smythe.
Macbeth episodes, at least up to this point, seem to be cursed with mediocre animation. (Of course, everything's relative. Mediocre on Gargs was still better than most series got. But relative to our expectations, this ep is pretty weak.) I bet Elisa would have really looked cute in that red baseball hat if the animation had been even slightly better.
I don't know how clear it is in the prologue. The idea there, was that the wind was blowing through the lyre. The haunting sound drew the archeologists further into the cave. They read the warning which indicates that the seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear, the destroyer everything. They are supposed to hesitate, look at each other, decide that they are seekers not destroyers and then open the chest. Merlin's clearly put a safety spell of some kind on the chest. An image of the old man appears and basically checks to confirm whether the archeologists are in fact seekers or destroyers. Satisfied, the spell disipates. But you can imagine what would have happened if a Hakon type had stumbled in.
Anyway, it never felt like all that came across. Did it?
Brooklyn (re: Broadway): "Ignorance is bliss." In High School, I had a classmate named Howard Bliss. We had chemistry together with Mr. Miller. Mr. Miller once asked the class a question that we all should have known. No one knew the answer, and our own idiocy generated laughter among Miller's students. He just shook his head and said: "Ignorance is bliss." He forgot that he had a student named Bliss. It generated more laughter. I don't know why I told you that. But it's what I thought about when Brooklyn read that line.
There's a semi-heavy-handed "Read More About It" feel to the clock tower conversation regarding Merlin. Goliath practically quotes those public service announcements, saying there are many books about him in the library. I don't mind. I had wanted to cite a few actual books -- like Mary Stewart's THE CRYSTAL CAVE -- but our legal department wouldn't give us clearance for that. Very short-sighted.
A connection is made between Merlin and the Magus. This was not an accident, as at that time, I had planned to have the Magus journey with Arthur on his Pendragon quests to find Excalibur and Merlin. I later changed my mind. But the Magus does at least play a Merlin-esque roll in the Avalon three parter.
I always wonder who was playing in "Celebrity Hockey" that night.
Macbeth's standard Electro-Magnetic weapon was my idea. I didn't design it exactly, but I did make crude little drawings of something that looked vaguely like a staple gun, with two electrodes that generated the charge. I was always proud of that weapon. It was uniquely Macbeth's (and Banquo and Fleances'). Set him apart from all the concussion, laser and particle beam weapons we used elsewhere. (I did the same kind of thing on the Quarymen's hammers.)
It's fun to listen to B.J. Ward voice both sides of the confrontation between Fleance and Duane.
Banquo's model sheet showed him squinting out of one eye. Some episodes, not so much this one, but some took that to mean he only had one eye. So he walks around looking like Popeye for the entire episode. (His big lantern jaw helps accentuate that.) There are a couple of Popeye moments in this ep. But more in his next appearance I think.
It was my idea to just have Mac's mansion rebuilt without explanation. I don't exactly regret it, but it's kinda cheap. We burned it way down. He has it rebuilt. It makes sense. But we usually dealt with consequences more than that.
When he rebuilds it, he installs those cannons. They were supposed to be giant-sized versions of the hand-held E-M guns. But they don't come off that way. Instead they fire at the gargoyles. And mostly seem to destroy the various turrets of Macbeth's own place. Ugghh.
As in "Leader" we get another scene of Goliath and friends confronting Owen at the castle. Looking for Xanatos, when in fact Xanatos isn't the threat. It made sense in both episodes. And it's always nice to showcase Owen a bit. But after two of those in four episodes, I wasn't gonna do that again. (At least not until KINGDOM.)
I love the "Macbeth Theme" that Carl Johnson created for the villain, which is featured at the end of ACT ONE.
Macbeth opens the "second scroll" and starts to read Merlin's seal. This caused tons of fan confusion, as he read "Sealed by my own [i.e. Merlin's] hand". No one seemed to get that he was reading that. They thought Mac was saying that he [i.e. Macbeth] had sealed the scroll. Of course that notion renders the whole thing confusing as hell. But it never occured to us that anyone would take it that way.
We also introduce Jeffrey Robbins and Gilly in this episode. Gilly is of course short for Gilgamesh, one of the legendary characters that Robbins once wrote about. It's just a bit odd, because Gilly is a female.
Robbins is a very cool character. Wish we had had the opportunity to use him more.
I like how when Robbins and Hudson are introducing themselves, Robbins gives his first and last name. Hudson says, I'm Hudson, "like the river". An echo of how he got the name. And a reminder that names aren't natural to him. Even if they are addictive.
John Rhys-Davies is just fantastic as Macbeth. I love his speech to Broadway. It accomplishes everything we needed it too. That line about the "human heart" by the way is a reference to the Arthur/Lance/Gwen triangle.
I also love his line: "I'm Old, but not THAT Old." This was a little hint to what we'd reveal in CITY OF STONE. Sure Macbeth's from the eleventh century, but not the fifth or sixth. It's like someone saying to someone my age, "So what did you do during World War II?"
Lennox Macduff. That was a cool touch. Also a hint as to how Macbeth feels about Shakespeare.
I like the Phone Book scene too. Hudson says "Hmm. Magic Book." Robbins replies: "Aren't they all." Great stuff.
By the way, as Robbins goes through the phone book, scanning names, he passes "Macduff, Cameron". One of my college roommates was Cameron Douglas, who was really interested in his Scotish heritage. That was a mini-tribute to him.
My daughter Erin reacts to the fact that Macbeth threatens to use Merlin's spells on Broadway. She points out that Macbeth had promised to let Broadway go after he had the scrolls. She's surprised he hasn't kept his word. My wife at that point reminds Erin that Macbeth is the villain. Erin gets that. But you can tell it isn't quite sitting right with her.
Later when Macbeth DOES let everyone go without a struggle, Erin is clearly not sure what to make of him.
And on one level, that's exactly as we wanted it. Macbeth is a troubled guy -- a hero who's devolved into a villain. A suicidal villain on top of that, though we hadn't revealed that yet. But he is a villain. Later, it's debatable, but here he's taken to being an ends-justify-the-means kinda guy. And even his ends are hazy at best.
I love Broadway's "precious magic" speech. It's so wierd hearing poetry from the big galoot. But that's so Broadway. The soul of a poet. Bill Faggerbakke was a huge help.
And I love Robbins "They are lighthouses in the dark sea of time..." speech. I love that it's not exactly the title. Brynne and Lydia did fine work on this one.
I wonder what happened to that lyre?
I haven't re-watched "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" yet. But we all know that's next, so I thought I'd go ahead and post the memo I sent to Michael Reaves, Brynne Chandler Reaves and Lydia C. Marano, based on the first draft outline they gave me on this story. Here it is, unedited:
Notes on "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" Outline...
O.K. I'm gonna suggest some major changes here, though not without purpose. Brynne, they come right out of the phone conversation that led us to trade Xanatos & Demona for Macbeth. I don't think we've adjusted enough from the premise to meet our objectives.
THE MAIN OBJECTIVE
Remember, our primary objective is NOT to teach Hudson and Broadway to read. It is to ENGAGE them in the wonder of reading, to convince them it is a worthwhile, rewarding and magical endeavor. To make them WANT to learn how to read.
We discussed that Hudson and Broadway had two very different reasons for not wanting to learn. Broadway thinks it's a waste of time. He's got television, video, movies and a very exciting life. (The latter is the most important. I'm not going to preach the evils of the visual media, which are other legitimate windows into "other worlds", but which cannot and should not substitute for reading.) At any rate, Broadway doesn't see the relevance of reading to his life. This is a major cause of illiteracy among teen-agers.
Hudson doesn't learn for a very different reason. He's ashamed that he hasn't learned already. This is the main cause of continued illiteracy among adults.
I'm not getting a clear distinction between the two characters -- partially, because we're not getting much screen time for Broadway at all. We've got a lot to fit in here, but we still need to have enough time to explore both Hudson and Broadway's very different arcs. I think there's a relatively simple solution. Cut Elisa from the story, (at least for the most part). She's a great character, but she doesn't have a lot to learn from this adventure. We're wasting screen time on her. Make Broadway the V.T.O.L. stow-away instead of Elisa.
We also discussed toning Robbins' role down. I know some of that has been done, but the guy is still coming across as St. Jeffrey to me. He's an integral, not incidental part of the plot. Now normally, I'd cheer about this, but here it's not convincing. Hudson happens to be injured near the house of the one author that Goliath loves and Elisa mentioned, who also happens to be an Arthurian expert, who if not for his blindness, would be the only person who Macbeth could get to translate the scrolls. It's just too much.
I do not believe that after nine centuries, Macbeth needs any mere mortal to translate a book for him. It's not like he has only just now started searching for magic books. If he needed to know a language he didn't know, he has had plenty of time to learn it. If no one could translate the spells, that would be another thing. But the notion that some mortal knows a Celtic language that's a mystery to the immortal Celtic Macbeth doesn't play for me.
Again, I think the solution here is simple. Macbeth doesn't get the scrolls until near the end of the play. After Macbeth's men steal the scrolls, we have Hudson and Broadway steal them back before Macbeth can get his hands on them. Hudson's injured and washes up and into Robbins' lap. Mac's men return without Hudson's scrolls. Mac and his men have to go after them. They track Hudson to Robbins' nest. Now with this change, we don't need Robbins to be the only guy who can translate these spells. He doesn't have to be the foremost authority on all things Arthurian.
In fact, he doesn't have to be the foremost anything. Frankly, he doesn't even have to be Goliath's favorite author. He doesn't have to be famous or collectable. In a way, I think it works against us if he is. What if he's just a relatively average guy. He writes novels that take myth, legend and/or history and try to render them believable and "true". Think Mary Stewart or Mary Renault. He's had some success. Enough to make him comfortable. But he's no Stephen King. He's just a writer operating in relative obscurity. (We can all relate.) I feel strongly that this makes him a better messenger for our purposes. The guy just loves his job. It hasn't made him rich or famous, but he loves it. He gets to do all this research, all this reading, on the period he's going to write on. He writes. (He loves words, and his dialogue should show it -- no easy task, because simply giving him a big, latinate vocabulary won't cut it.) And then he gets a tremendous kick out of knowing that people read what he wrote. It's immortality. And a better kind of immortality than Macbeth's. (I mean, hell, that's why I'm in the business -- fame and wealth would be nice, but what I really need is to live forever.) Maybe he's never even written about Merlin or Arthur before. Maybe this adventure inspires him to. It would be a lot less contrived if all this were true.
Another thing that I think we should cut is Macbeth's little village. I don't know why it's been created. It seems to thematically fit our idea of visiting other places and times through books, but in fact it works against that theme. (As Broadway would say, "Why do I need to read about this stuff, when I can spend an hour at this glorified museum and see it? Not that I like museums.")
PHONE BOOKS, ETC.
Unfortunately, some of my changes are going to force adjustments to all the truly wonderful incidental references and uses that we put "reading" to in this outline, but we need to make sure the tail doesn't wag the dog. Let's get the structure squared away, and then work to fit as many of these as possible back into the show. Or come up with new ones. (Sure, easy for me to say.)
THE SCROLLS OF MERLIN
Let's refer to them as the SCROLLS OF MERLIN, not MERLIN'S JOURNALS. The former is neutral. The latter implies that they are exactly what they turn out to be: a narrative. We want everyone thinking that this is a book of spells. And that's everyone, not just Macbeth. We're tipping our hand otherwise. The treasure is the narrative, but it's a secret treasure. The notion of our gargoyles and all of New York getting hyped for narrative early on, makes the revelation less special. Plus, I don't want to be flagging to our audience from moment one that this is an episode about "LITERACY". Let the audience believe what Macbeth believes: we're hunting a magical macguffin. We'll sneak up on them with our true purpose (and Lord knows we're not being that subtle, so there won't be any doubt about it by the end). That way when Hudson meets Robbins, our audience won't say, "How convenient? Story about reading, and Hudson meets a writer!" They won't know the story's about reading when this happens.
With all of the above in mind, I think we need to be careful about dressing Elisa like Guinevere. It comes across as a fad here, and she doesn't seem the type to go in for a fad. It's not like this is gonna suddenly become standard attire in NYC. Let's not oversell our point, or I'm afraid we won't make the sale at all.
MORGAN THE DOG
Sorry. We already have Morgan the Cop. You need a new name. (Again, I wouldn't chose an Arthurian reference. Let this episode pique Robbin's interest in Arthurana. Up to now he's been writing novels about Beowulf or Gilgamesh.)
Instead of making them mercenaries, let's just give him two specific henchman. Tough and very well-trained. Maybe not geniuses, but definitely not stupid. (Why do intelligent villains always employ such dumb henchmen?) Maybe their real names are Mel and Steve, but Macbeth calls them BANQUO and FLEANCE. A private joke that maybe they don't even get. (When I got to page 10 of the outline I was gonna suggest Banquo and Macduff, until I saw the Lennox Macduff thing on page 11. So I switched Macduff to Fleance. We can still use the Lennox Macduff alias.)
Macbeth has a code of honor. It's flexible, but it exists. He's clearly willing to take prisoners. Hostages and ransom were an established and legitimate part of medieval warfare. But I don't know if he'd hold a knife to someone's head to facilitate his own escape. This isn't a hard and firm note, just keep it in mind. Also, I don't think his men have made a habit of stealing statues for him. After 900+ years, I doubt he'd be that much into material possessions. That's more Xanatos' gig. Macbeth keeps a fine house, but it's easier to buy than steal, and he's very wealthy.
Don't really see any purpose to it anymore.
1. Open with a prologue that shows us the British archeologists discovering the two large scrolls. More exciting than watching a report about it on television. Maybe the underground chamber was sealed magically. (A red herring to get us thinking spell book, instead of narrative.)
2. But now we segue to the clock tower. Lex is reading a newspaper article about the scrolls out loud to the rest of the gang. It seems the Scrolls are coming to NYC for authentification or whatever. Elisa says she and Matt volunteered to guard the shipment of the scrolls, and they got the nod. She admits that it's silly for her to be so excited, after all, she won't get to read them, but the whole thing really intrigues her.
Brooklyn wants to know more about Merlin. He had heard of him even back in the 10th century. He knows Merlin was some kind of 5th century magician, but that's about it. Goliath recommends some books.
(Adrienne, can we recommend a real book? Mary Stewart's THE CRYSTAL CAVE is a wonderful novel about Merlin. I read it for the first time in eighth grade. I'm rereading it now to Erin. I know we usually don't want to appear to be endorsing anything, but given this episode's subject matter, shouldn't we make an exception? Wouldn't this be a public service? We could slip in the titles of a number of good books throughout this episode. They do it on CBS with those "Read More About It" segments. Anyway, let me know.)
Broadway doesn't get it. He doesn't know how to read, and he doesn't see why he should bother to learn. Let's rent the video. They argue a bit. Hudson pointedly refuses to give his opinion, but we don't reveal his illiteracy here. (Let's make a small point of showing Hudson's rapport with Bronx here though.)
Goliath wants to know what the scrolls contain? Elisa says the seals won't be broken until they are authenticated, but the rumor is they might be Merlin's magic spells. Goliath looks concerned.
3. Dark, stormy night. Low visibility. Harbor attack by two VTOLs. Elisa and Matt are guarding the two scroll containers. But Banquo and Fleance outgun them by a mile. They each take one container into their VTOLs. Thank goodness the gargoyles were gliding nearby. (Goliath was worried that the magic scrolls might be a prime target for Demona or Xanatos.) The gargoyles attack the VTOL's. (Maybe Broadway makes a crack: "When your life is this exciting, who needs books?")
In the confusion, Hudson manages to rip open the hatch of Banquo's VTOL. He grabs the container from the shocked Banquo, but Banquo manages to get off a concussion blast that severly wounds Hudson. He's blown out of the VTOL and into the bay, still clutching the water-proof container. None of the other gargoyles see this happen.
Fleance and Banquo hit their turbo buttons and go shooting off into the night. Goliath, Lex and Brooklyn can't keep up, but a flash of lightning reveals that Broadway has managed to dig in and hitch a ride on the underside of Fleance's VTOL. They don't see Hudson, but they assume/hope that maybe he's done the same. They retreat as police helicopters approach the scene.
But Hudson (still clutching the container) is in the water, maybe going down for the last time.
4. Banquo & Fleance land their VTOL's at their boss's compound. (It might as well be Macbeth' mansion from episode -008, rebuilt since the fire.) Banq tells Fleance that he lost his container. "WHAT?! The boss is gonna kill us!" Well, big shot, where's yours? Safe in the hold of my VTOL where it belongs. Well, one scroll is better than none. Let's bring it to him. They go to get it, but the hull's been torn open and the scroll is missing.
5. Down by the docks, Elisa confers quietly with Goliath, Lex and Brooklyn. They are all worried about Broadway and Hudson. Plus this whole theft smells like Xanatos to Elisa. But no proof. So no warrant. Goliath doesn't have that problem.
6. Still raining. Hudson sees the sillouettes of a bunch of gargoyles and heads for them. He just barely makes it to shore. He's hurting bad, and is wildly disappointed when he realizes that the sillouette's weren't Goliath and the trio, but "phonies". He collapses.
7. Goliath, Brooklyn and Lex arrive at Xanatos' castle. Owen's there alone. Goliath insists on searching the place... top to bottom. (At this point in story, we should not feel that Goliath is wasting time. Owen should be ambiguous enough so that the audience WILL think that this is a Xanatos plan.)
8. Back at the Compound's hangar, we find Broadway in hiding, clutching the second container. (And feeling like this "old book" definitely isn't worth it.) Well, Banquo and Fleance are going nuts looking for the stupid thing. Now seems like a good time to bolt for the exit. He goes for it. Catches B&F off-guard and bulls his way past them. Only to be taken down by... the boss. Macbeth.
9. Broadway recovers and attacks. But Macbeth makes short work of him. By now B&F have him totally covered (by high-tech futuristic non-imitatable weapons of course). Macbeth opens the container and carefully removes the scroll. He examines the seal and confirms that the scroll is authentic Merlin and that it is the second of the two scrolls. He doesn't break the seal, because he believes the scrolls contain magic. It's dangerous to get things out of order. Where's the first scroll?
10. Still raining. Robbins and his dog find Hudson, who. is regaining consciousness. Robbins surmises that Hudson was mugged, and Hudson lets him think so. The dog likes Hudson. Hudson says he's good with animals. Robbins appreciates that and is solicitous. Hudson sees that Robbins is blind. He gets an idea. He just needs a safe place to rest 'til morning. Then he'll cease to be any trouble. Robbins invites him inside, offers to help. But Hudson won't let him get too close. They go in.
11. Mac, Fleance and Banquo are in a VTOL, heading back to the harbor. Broadway is there too, in VERY heavy chains. Macbeth's keeping him around until he gets hold of the other scroll. Banquo protests: he blew that old gargoyle away, the other scroll is probably lying on the floor of the bay. Macbeth says it better not be, or Banquo will join it.
12. It's still storming outside. Breathing heavily, Hudson lowers himself into an easy chair and looks around Robbins' home. It's wall-to-wall bookshelves. Hudson doesn't like being here, but he's a bit of a captive audience. There's an uncomfortable silence. On a table near his chair, Hudson picks a medal off a display case. Also on the display case, is a plaque of some kind that clearly reads something like: "ROBBINS RECEIVES PURPLE HEART", but Hudson still asks what it is. Eventually, we get the idea that Robbins lost his sight in the war. (Vietnam? Korea? How old do we want Robbins to be? If we want him to be the same (biological) age as Hudson, we should go with Korea.) Hudson points to his one blind eye, which was also injured in battle. (Against the Archmage in episode #11, but Hudson won't go into details.) The two old warriors have made a connection. Now they can become friends. Robbins asks Hudson what he does. Hudson says he's...still a soldier. Robbins is a novelist. Or he used to be, before he ran out of ideas. He did have a few minor successes. Maybe Hudson's heard of them. Hudson doesn't read much, but he's shocked that the blind Robbins can read and write. Robbins is borderline insulted. Hasn't Hudson heard of braille? Hudson hasn't. Robbins is surprised. He hands Hudson a braille book (one that he wrote). Hudson runs his fingers over the bumps. Robbins then hands him the same book in standard English. Hudson lets slip that the bumps mean as much to him as the chicken scrawl. Robbins puts two and two together. And we find out that Hudson can't read.
13. In the harbor, near dawn, The VTOL searches for some clue. Broadway asks Macbeth what all the fuss is about. Who was this Merlin guy? Just another stupid magician. Macbeth tells him who Merlin was. Tells him about what he, Arthur and Guinevere created. Maybe he quotes Tennyson or Muir. But he's eloquent and evocative, and Broadway listens with rapt attention, perhaps (do we dare?) even visualizing Macbeth's words with hazy images. When Macbeth finishes Broadway says with awe: "You describe it like you were there..." Macbeth tosses off his reply (he doesn't realize the effect he's had on Broadway): "I'm old, but not THAT old. Obviously, I read about it in books." But Broadway can't help repeating to himself: "But you describe it like you were there..."
14. Back at the castle, Goliath and co. have obviously, found nothing of value. It won't be long til sunrise and they dare not stay much longer. Owen enters with the early morning edition under his arm. He's deduced what they're after from the news story. Suggests that the VTOL described in the article has more in common with the kind of vehicle that Macbeth is wont to drive. (Goliath feels like big dumb jerk. But there's no time to fight about it.) Goliath, Brook and Lex leave.
15. Hudson: "I'm too old to learn to read now." Robbins: It's never too late. I had to learn to read all over again, learn to read braille after I was blinded. Hudson: Who would teach me? He's ashamed to tell his friends he doesn't know how. Robbins offers to teach him, but makes the point that Hudson should only be ashamed to continue his illiteracy. There's no shame in learning -- ever. Hudson doesn't respond.
The storm is breaking and dawn approaches. Hudson, still hurt, gets up to leave. Robbins is afraid he's gotten too preachy. But Hudson insists he must go. He goes to the terrace. Takes his place among the gargoyles. Turns to stone, still clutching the scroll container. The dog barks. Robbins calls out to his new friend. But there's no sound, no movement. He doesn't know how Hudson got away so fast, but he did.
16. On the VTOL, Broadway, still in chains, has turned to stone. Macbeth spots the gargoyles of Robbins' terrace. He orders Banquo to head that way.
17. Robbins and his dog hear a noise on the terrace. He calls out "Hudson?", but the dog is growling and he knows Hudson isn't there. It's a man named Lennox Macduff, who claims to be a friend of Hudson's; he's looking for him. Robbins is suspicious. But Macduff is very polite and leaves without incident. What Robbins doesn't see is that Macduff slips the container out of Hudson's stone hand.
18. Sunset. Hudson bursts free. But the scroll container is gone. The noise has again brought Robbins to his terrace. Hudson claims that when he left in such a hurry this morning, he must have left something here accidentally. Has Robbins "seen" it? No, but you're friend Lennox Macduff was here, maybe he took it. Hudson knows no Macduff. Robbins isn't too surprised. He thought the name was odd. The two characters who found the dead king in Shakespeare's MACBETH. Hudson: "Macbeth?!!"
And maybe here is where we get the looking up of "Lennox Macduff's" address in the phone book. (Hudson never saw Macbeth's mansion in Episode 8. Goliath, Brook and Lex did.)
19. Inside Macbeth's compound Macbeth is preparing for some magic ceremony thing. There's a flame pit and other magical acoutrements. Broadway's flesh again, but still bound by heavy chains now anchored to the floors. He'll be Macbeth's guinea pig for trying out Merlin's spells. He starts to open the first scroll.
20. Outside the compound, Hudson is reunited with Goliath, Brook and Lex. They briefly exchange info. Then they attack. But Banquo and Fleance are ready. They're on turret mounted laser cannons that turn and twist like the ones on the Milennium Falcon (or something like that).
21. Macbeth tries to open the first scroll. It has been magically sealed, but a simple spell can break it open.
22. Goliath, Hudson, Brooklyn and Lex defeat Banquo and Fleance. They head inside.
23. Macbeth begins to read aloud from the first scroll. (I'm tempted to say he translates from Latin, but I don't know if that serves our aim. We could ignore the translation question. He reads it to us in English. Which may mean he's translating it for us automatically without bothering to mention that fact. Or we just do what we always have in this series which is ignore the differences between Old, Middle and Modern English, extending it to whatever Celtic dialect Merlin might have written in.) As he reads aloud, it soon becomes clear that it is not a spellbook but an autobiography, a narrative. A history. You get the idea. He's furious. All that trouble for a stupid book.
Hudson, Goliath, Brook and Lex storm in. Macbeth is unprepared, so he flips a release on Broadway's floor chains, but then uses him as a hostage for his escape. (Now I know I said to watch out for this. And we still need to. Macbeth needs to rationalize this. Probably outloud.) Goliath threatens to drop the scrolls into the fire if Macbeth doesn't release Broadway unharmed. (Goliath still believes that this is a book of magic, i.e. a dangerous human weapon.) Macbeth is about to laugh at this threat, when Broadway protests. "Goliath, you can't." Broadway now believes that the scrolls are infinitely precious. Goliath is surprised to hear this from Broadway. Where'd he get this from? From Macbeth. Those scrolls are magic. They can transport us back...all that good stuff. Even Macbeth is impressed. Cautiously, he releases Broadway. He tells the gargoyles they are tresspassing on his property. Take the scrolls and go.
24. The gargoyles wing their way back towards the clock tower. They plan on giving the scrolls back to Elisa, so that she can return them to the museum. Goliath's sure that after the museum has authenticated them, they will be transcribed and published. But if the others want, he can read the scrolls aloud to them, before he gives them to Elisa. But Hudson says no. For a moment, everyone is a bit taken aback. Then Hudson says that he wants to read them himself. As soon as his friends help teach him how. They glide off across the city.
25. Dissolve to Robbins at his house with his dog. He's reading a braille newspaper about the recovery of the Scrolls of Merlin. "Hmmm.... Scrolls of Merlin.... I think I've found my next novel."
And we get our Tuchman quote, probably read by Robbins (Ray Charles?).
O.K. That's it. Let me know if you have any questions or problems.
First of all, Mr. Weisman, I would like to congradulate you on a great series and a job well done.
I would like to comment on a particular aspect: Angela.
I was impressed at how subtly you addressed the problem of the Manhattan clan's lack of females, which meant there could be no continuation of the clan. The only female attached to the clan was Demona, and with her being what she is, it is not exactly likely that she would breed with any of them. I liked the way you solved it with the fates of the Wyvern clan's eggs, which lead to introducing Goliath's daughter, Angela. (I love the contrast to her mother Demona's name, Demon/Angel.) She's a great character.
I was quite pleased that you had Angela choose Broadway over Brooklyn and Lexington, but Brooklyn especially.
When I first saw how the trio was vying for Angela's favor, it got me thinking. As it was inevitable that she would choose, I began wondering who. My favorite is Broadway, but followed closely by Lexington. I'm not overfond of Brooklyn.
My first thought was that she would choose Brooklyn, because he's the second in command, and the leader or semi-leader is in most stories the one to "get the girl". Lexington doesn't really seem the type for Angela; he was probably acting through hormones. Broadway, however, had the same disposition as Angela, and was a more gentle, more likable type. I hoped he would be chosen, but still thought it would be Brooklyn.
I must commend you on pairing Broadway and Angela. As I mentioned before, Lexington simply doesn't seem right, and Brooklyn... well, Brooklyn will go for any girl who's got wings. Not only Angela, but Maggie, too... I'm even under the impression that he developed a crush on Demona in TEMPTATION!
So great work, and good thinking. I salute you and your work!
Thanks, but as I've said before, this was less a choice than something that just felt right.
As for Brooklyn, I do think he was crush-happy, but I am over-fond of the guy, so I don't want it to seem like Broadway "won Angela" because he won some kind of popularity contest over Brook and Lex with me.
Hiyah, I'm Zupp! I love Gargoyles sooooo much, and they simply kick. They're way to good for Toon Disney!
My Q's are on relationships in GARGOYLES:
1) Why did you give Angela to Broadway? I don't wanna like offend you or something, but she'd be so much better as Brooklyn's. They look a heck of a lot better together than Angela and Broadway.
2) In teh avalon episodes, especially when Angela leaves for the first time, she and Gabriel were always together. Gabriel at least acted like he was in love with her. But you said that Gabriel was going with Ophelia. Was there ever anything with Angela and Gabriel?
3. The Goliath/Elisa relationship rocks! I love how you got rid of a gap between 2 species with it. But will they ever have a future together?
1. I didn't "give" Angela to Broadway. As she herself said, she's not a prize to be won by OR gifted to anyone. As for a direct answer to your question, sorry, but I'm tired of answering this one. If you'd bothered to check the Angela or the Trio archive to this site you would have seen that this question has been asked and answered many times. I don't want to offend YOU, but if you think she'd be better off with Brooklyn, then I think you weren't paying very close attention.
2. Again, no. Check the archives for a more complete answer. But Angela and Gabriel had a much more fraternal relationship. Think of them as fraternal twin siblings. They were very close. But it was brother/sister affection -- never romance.
(Zupp, I'm sorry if this response seems harsh. But I've got a ton of questions to go through, and it's a little tough when the questioner doesn't bother to check the specific archive for his question first.)
In Future Tense the Trio looked much different, older as well as transformed by war.
1>Was this how they would look later in the series?
2>How would they change beyond what we saw in Future Tense (ex:broadway grew spikes on his tail, head spikes grew...)?
3>When would you implement the physical changes during the series or have them grow in?
4>Were the designs in FT final desicions?
5> Is it possible that we might see something new if the series were to go on?
6> Would we even see their older forms again?
Thanx a lot. I/we/alla us people appreciate your continuing efforts to get caught up and answer our questions, inspite of and including server problems. Thanx be to Gorebash as well for keeping up the queue as well as he can despite college. Wow I feel like I've just been awarded a Grammy...
1. Not necessarily.
2. Can't say.
3. You're takin' a lot for granted.
4. They were Puck's final decisions.
5. "something new"? Of course.
i really like the trio and i was just wondering are they brothers or just rookery brothers. and do they know who their parents were?
Rookery brothers. And the whole clan (of generations OLDER than Goliath's) were their Rookery parents.
In the AskGreg Archive, you wrote: "I expect Angela, Sora, Ophelia, Boudicca, Obsidiana, and Turquesa to all lay eggs in 2008."
As I see it, Angela is Broadway's mate, Sora is (presumably) Kai's mate, Ophelia is Gabriel's mate, Obsidiana is Zafiro's mate, and Turquesa is Jade's mate. But what about Boudicca? Did she and Bronx mate? It seems logical, since (other than Fu-Dog) there are no other gargoyle beasts in the series. Is this true?
Sora is Yama's mate. And Boudicca has mated and probably will again mate with Bronx.
Another Lex's mate Q. I know you said you weren't going to answer it for a while but would you answer this one?
1) When Lex _does_ meet his mate..does he come to her or does she come to him?? IE: Does she appear in Manhattan for one reason or another? Or does Lex get to do some traveling in some way or another? Thanks!
I'm fairly certain they meet in Manhattan, but I won't be held to that, if I see a different (read better) way to intro them.
In *three* out of the four episodes between 'Gathering' and 'Hunter's Moon', namely in 'Vendettas', in 'Turf' and in 'Possession', Hudson and Goliath are out in patrol together. It seems far too much of a coincidence: was this done intentionally so as to leave the Trio alone with Angela?
In a sense, were the two older gargs realizing that with the coming of Angela, the youngsters would appreciate some time together without intrusion from elders?
Uh, in my head, Turf and Vendettas were happening simultaneously. I'm not sure that really works as aired. Or really matters for that matter. But that's what was in my head back when we were writing them. So that explains two out of the three. As for Possession, we really did that to make Puck's trick work, if I'm going to be honest.
However, I like your interpretation, so yeah, why not?
Drat..forgot what I was going to post next..you win this time. Though in its place I offer yet another Lex post!!
Ok. This question has been answered before in other answers. It has never actually _been_ a post by itself. So I thought I'd just give it a shot. If you feel like you have said as much as you can on this from other posts then thats fine too:)
When ppl come in here and post things like "Brooklyn being the thrill seeker." or "Lex the techno geek." You always respond saying that that isn't how you really see them at all. Well, I'd ask this Q about the whole trio..but I know a lot about Broadway. He's a sweetie;) And Brooklyn..well..I think there are enough posts on him to cut and past a decent novel. So I'll just ask about Lex. Again, if you feel like this gives away future info. like on how he was going to sorta flip out, or perhaps you feel there isn't anything more to say, then just tell me to bug off;)
1) How would you describe Lexingtons' character?
IE: Is he slightly more dependent on others for emotional support? More likly to hold feelings in? What kinda guy is he _really_ Greg?
Sorry for this whole annoying rant. But it just occured to my today..all this speculation and I never really came out and just asked it. Im sure though..the answer is a lot less involved then I think it is:) Or..maybe more involved? 0_o
Thanks for reading my posts!
He's a good guy. Still a bit emotionally immature, but gaining maturity all the time. He's obviously extremely bright, but isn't one of those savants that can't relate to the world or with people. He's still a warrior, first and foremost.
Does that help, or were you looking for something else?
This is another response to a ramble on another beautiful ep!
Like Erin said, it's not supposed to happen. The brother of our heroine isn't supposed to be in the employ of the Bad Guy. The thing that interested me most was that scene with the different reactions between the trio. Broadway and Brooklyn's lines beg some thought… Derek should trust you… but trust doesn't mean much without honesty. In a kid's show, there is usually a very clear definition between Good and Bad, but Brooklyn is subtly saying that she hasn't been entirely honest with her brother. I love my trio. Oops, there's three. And poor Lex who carries a grudge as long as any other gargoyle is inching out the Six trying to start hunting the Pack down. Great personality work. These aren't Huey Duey and Louie.
Again, the Good and Bad thing going on with Xanatos. He's supposed to be the antagonist, but he just acts so… suave! One might mistake him for a great guy… I guess Derek did.
The scene with Fox? I think the beams of light from heaven surrounding her enraptured face as she pictures "David" gave it away. :) When I first saw it, I for some reason thought that Fox was infatuated with Xanatos, but didn't know it was mutual. Silly me.
Nah, you're not silly. We had to have some secrets.
A couple of questions about, of all things.... Shaving.
1. Xanatos- Electric or old fashioned razor?
2. Owen- Does he need to shave at all, or is a side effect of the "out Vogeled vogel" character include always being clean cut?
The gargs- In the past whenever anyone assumed that Hudson is odd because only has a beard and that the other gargs don't shave, you've basically responded "Who said they didn't". So...
3. *DO* the other gargs need to shave?
4. If so, what do they shave with, particularly Goliath on the Avalon tour?
5. Would Brooklyn ever seriously consider growing a beard, since it'd probably look rather akward on his beak?
6. COuld Brooklyn grow a beard even if he wanted to?
Just an odd tangent I was suddeny inspired to ask. Thanks for your time Greg.
1. Ask Fox.
2. He shaves.
3. Not Angela.
4. Superman checked in periodically, and volunteered his heat-vision.
5. Would you in his circumstances?
6. Only a Goatee.
I've already dealt with the changes between the first and second seasons of GARGOYLES. (See a previous ramble on that subject.) And hopefully you've all read the serialized postings of the memo I wrote to Michael Reaves in July of 94. Note the date. I was writing that memo to Michael a good three months before the first season of the series would actually premiere. Meaning, Michael, myself, all of us, were just guessing.
Now, finally, I have the time to sit down and ramble about my recent re-viewing of "Leader"...
STORY EDITOR: Michael Reaves.
WRITER: Steven Perry.
Some things were coming to fruition in this episode. A CY.O.T.I. robot had been part of the original development of the show and the Pack. Six characters seemed like a bit much, but the main reason we left CY.O.T.I. out of "Thrill of the Hunt" was because of the way we wound up intro-ing the Pack, that is as a group of T.V. super-heroes. Giving them a realistic robot in that context didn't seem to fit. By the time we got around to introducing the show's version of the Coyote robot (note the NORMAL spelling) much had changed in how we conceived the thing. And yet many of the original elements were still present, if altered. The orignal CY.O.T.I. (CYber-Operational Technical Individual -- or something like that) was a hovering robotic head. But not a Xanatos head. It was a dog-faced head. The head could attach to multiple different robotic bodies, as well as lock into various vehicles as a kind-of autoMATED pilot. One of the robotic bodies was four-legged, dog-shaped. Another was bipedal. But in either case there was never any question that the robot was a robot.
But by the time, we got to "Leader" we had learned so much more about our characters, that our whole conception of CY.O.T.I. changed into the Coyote you know. Part of the change came right out of how sophisticated Xanatos himself was. David constantly made Michael and I jump through hoops to come up with trickier and trickier plots. Plots that would allow the Gargoyles to generally triumph, and yet allow Xanatos to snatch some real victory out of seeming total defeat in what had become our trademark Xanatos Tag sequences. The one in "Leader" is one of the best, which brings up another thing that came to fruition in this episode. When we first created the Pack, I had NO IDEA that Fox and Xanatos were an item. That was a complete discovery, a revelation that came to us during the making of "Her Brother's Keeper": akin to, "Ohmigod, Fox is in love with David!!!" I don't know if it shocked you guys, but it sure came as a surprise to me, their so-called creator. Another instance when I think of myself less as a writer, and more as simply the guy who was tapping into what was really going on in the GARGOYLES UNIVERSE. When did you guys figure it out? During "Brother's Keeper"? During "Leader"? Or not until the end of "Leader" when it was objectively revealed? (Obviously, any of you who saw later episodes first are disqualified from voting on this one.)
Anyway, since we knew they were destined for each other, and we had this semi-top secret plan for them to marry and extremely top-secret plan for them to procreate, we knew we had to get Fox out of jail. And not break her out. But have her out more-or-less scott free. So that would be Xanatos' plan. All the subterfuge would lead to that. Having the robot pose as Xanatos in armor, allowed us for the kind of multiple surprise onion-peeling kind of story that I just live for. Plus it would leave us with a more wieldy five-man Pack again. Fox would graduate. Coyote would take her place.
One tricky thing was electronically futzing Jonathan Frakes' voice when Coyote was wearing his helmet. We wanted to alter it enough so that no one would know it was "Xanatos" until after he took off the helmet. But we didn't want to alter it SO much that you couldn't register Jonathan's standardly and casually wonderful acting AS Xanatos inside the armor. I think we succeeded. (Credit for that goes to the guys at Advantage Audio, who mixed the show. Real unsung heroes.)
We also gave Jamie Thomason, our voice director, and Jonathan the key note that would differentiate the true Xanatos from Coyote. And that was Coyote's fairly primitive desire for vengeance. If I do say so myself, I thought this was a terrific clue, a great moment of fair play, planted in the story. I wanted people to be a little surprised that Xanatos would care about vengeance. But I also figured most would buy into it, because we're all so trained to think of villains in a certain way. But then when Xanatos calls revenge a "sucker's game" at the end, the audience would feel "Oh, of course. That's OUR Xanatos. The other guy was just a cheap imitation." Who was fooled? Who wasn't? I'm curious to know.
When Coyote first took off his helmet at the end of Act One, my three year old son Ben yelled out "Xanatos!" He was truly and wonderfully surprised at that moment. It was fun.
Random observation: Wolf's not doing real push-ups. Not fully extending, either up or down.
Another thing we did do for the NEW SEASON start up was feature the gargs EXPLODING out of stone. Another of our series' trademarks that we wanted to be sure to get into the first episode of the new season.
Coyote clearly has a "quip chip" installed. He's got some great very Xanatosian lines. "Exact change". "Wanna see what I can do with both hands." Etc.
In fact lots of characters have great cutting lines in this one. Owen is wonderfully officious, even a tad smarmy in this one. You can almost see Puck smiling through, and this is before I knew Owen was Puck. But his, "Shouldn't you... be there." is just great.
Or Brooklyn's line: "Yeah, why should we stay up here... where it's safe." Great.
And Hyena: "I love a man who brings me weapons..." and "A robot?! Even better." Classic. And that was another discovery. Hyena would have the hots for Coyote. It wouldn't necessarily be reciprocated, but the mere fact that he was a robot wouldn't bug her. (I'm guessing she's used to using technology to satisfy her desires.) On some level, I think this was us (and Hyena) just being perverse for the sake of perverseness. But I also think it created an interesting parallel to Goliath and Elisa's relationship, if that doesn't sound to preposterous.
Another random observation: Hyena mentions Santa Claus. :) Ho ho ho.
I think there was a semi-conscious desire to give every character something that new and returning viewers could use to hang their hats on, so-to-speak.
Lex is still so angry at the Pack for events in "Thrill of the Hunt" that he's literally HOPPING mad. Actually, that bit of hopping bugged me. Made Lex look silly and young at a point when I was hoping to present him as truly dangerous. Oh, well...
Brooklyn still feels the same way about Demona. And he's self-aware enough to know it. Though not mature enough to get passed it. (That'll come -- sometime in 2158.)
Broadway still hates guns and smashes them at every opportunity. (Lex obviously doesn't share his rookery-brother's opinion. Lex looks real tough holding that launcher. And I think it's a fairly shocking moment when that hole gets blown in Coyote's torso, and Lex is revealed -- through the hole, no less -- as the shooter. Even though we know by this time that Coyote is a robot, I still think it's one of the most violent images that ever appeared in our show. And it's all about context and attitude. You get the sense that Lex might just do the exact same thing to any of the human members of the Pack too.)
Hudson is still the observant guy who deduces events from what remains behind. "There's been a struggle here..." is right in keeping with his tracking skills and the way he examined that tampered-with bow back in "Awakening, Part Two".
Bronx is still a good judge of character. And he hates robots with fearful abandon. We decided he could literally smell when something isn't human. If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, we naturally assume that it's a duck. But for Bronx it better smell like a duck or he's going to rip its face off, eh? That was another great shocking moment, I think. There's a little bit of WESTWORLD homage going on. Or FEMBOT homage, depending on how old you are. (I'm old enough to remember both.) It's pretty cool. And I love Coyote's head rocketing off at the end. It's so cool and sick. I fell in love with that head, and decided to use it in all future Coyote's -- one way or another.
Nietzche, Sartre, Kafka. That exchange was pure Perry-Reaves. And people tell me _I_ write to old for the demographic. Geez.
I love that moment when the phone rings at PackMedia Studios. (Also have I mentioned I love the name PackMedia. It's so perfect.) Anyway, Broadway's tentative response, before picking it up. And Owen knowing someone WOULD just pick up. It kills me.
As most of you know I favor one word titles. But "Leader of the Pack" WAS in fact one of mine. It was just irresistible.
The fight between the Gargs and the Pack aboard the oil tanker was very well-choreographed in script. But this was an instance where, in my opinion, our board artists lost the forest for the trees. The fight in storyboard went off on some wonderful tangents -- that wound up creating problems for those interested in keeping track of our combatants. Who was where and when just became a mess. We basically were able to fix those problems in film editing. But that's accomplished by keeping the fight well-paced. In the script, I actually think it's well-choreographed. In particular, Broadway freeing Lex, Brook and Bronx made a bit more sense in the script.
Coyote's perception-warping weapon is very cool. We probably didn't use it enough. Mainly because it was too effective. Too hard to stop.
I wanted the gargs to have to swim back to shore from the sinking tanker. But no one else agreed with me.
The head of Fox's parole board is voiced by Jim Cummings (aka Dingo, Darkwing Duck, Bonkers, etc.), doing his best Orson Wells imitation. Which is damned good by the way. Jim Cummings and Jeff Bennett in the same show. Man, were we blessed or what?
And coming full circle, we have our great Xanatos Tag. The villains kiss passionately. You don't see that too often in cartoons, I think. I love Xanatos' great line "That was merely the icing, you're the cake." And also his "true love is so much harder to come by." But here's my question for you guys. At the time, did you really think Xanatos was truly in love with Fox, or did you think he was merely being glib? I knew by that time, but even David didn't. Wasn't until "Eye of the Beholder" that HE realized how deep his feelings were for Fox.
Just got done reading your answer to my sound effects Q. Thanks for the excellent response! Heres a Q..
The episodes mainly staring Brooklyn showed him...
A) Becoming leader/later having to lead on his own
B) His whole run in with Magie
C) His run in with Demona
For Broadway we saw him
A) Shoot Elisa and gain not only more awarness but a distinct hatread of firearms (sp's!)
B) learn how to read/its importances
C) Fall in love with Angela
I was just wondering. Since you mentioned that it would have been nice if Lex had gotton just a bit more character development (air time whatever) If you were to add anything to further develop his character (in the episodes before Hunters Moon) what would you have added? Would you have liked to have added anymore forshadowing other then FT?
P.S- I just wanted to say that I really am sorry for posting so much on ONE character. I'm sure on some level it drives you nuts. Ah well, when I find out a sufficient amount of info on Lex (ya know, as much as Brook *coughs* ya right) Then I guess I can leave:) *L* JK!!!
First off, it doesn't drive me nuts at all. I love Lex too.
Anyway, yes, I had more plans for Lex. Starting with Alexander. I also planned on eventually giving him a mate. And I planned on having him go into business with a partner that might surprise you.
A six?? A _SIX_?? A six..ok..*lets that sink in* *eyes well up* How can you be so crule??! *shudders at your crazed laughter* *sighs* On a scale of 1-10 1 being the best Lex's mate being revealed is a _six_? *sighs* Its because I can't spell isn't it!! *snickers*
Well, I cant say that I give up..that wouldnt do for an insane Lexington fan now would it? Ah well..someone's gotta do it. hmm Better post a Q or Gore will boot this puppy..hmm ahh I know..
1) Can you tell us where Lex's mate was living when Hunters Moon aired?
Gee..I wonder what my answer will be;) Geez..sometimes I wish My favorite character was brooklyn;)
Thanks anyway Greg! :D *l*
I honestly don't know. Haven't worked that much of the character's history out in my head. But I do know who it is. (New character, by the way. No one we've met yet.)
Did Lex hatch after his Brothers Brooklyn and Broadway?
If so round about how meny? (if you answered this..Ill understand)
People seem to that his hatching later plays a role in his size and personality..like it made some big difference..can you tell me if that is true or if that is how he is regardless of a few lousy days?? IE: he's less mature or short? *L* I dont think it does..but I realized I never really asked the man so here it is
They all hatched about the same time, give or take a few hours.
How many what?
It's got nothing to do with anything. Don't you know two people who have close to the same birthday who are different heights? What does date of birth have to do with size?
I hope you don't mind some more TimeDancer questions. I checked the archives, and most of the questions were along the lines of "Who is Brooklyn's mate?" and "Who becomes Brooklyn's mate?" Let's hope these are less redundant for you. :)
1) When Brooklyn is finished with his time-traveling... how does he know he's actually finished? What makes him think the Gate won't whisk him away again?
2) Once the initial shock is over, how will Broadway and Lexington react to the relatively sudden change in Brooklyn due to the whole TimeDancing thing?
3) What happens to the Gate when Brooklyn's done with it, (or perhaps when it's done with Brooklyn)?
4) Does Brooklyn (or Katana) suffer permanent injuries from their traveling? By this I mean scars, loss of limb, and whatnot.
1. For starters, he's back where he started. Also he's been chasing the gate. Once he arrives at his final (i.e. his starting) destination, he has no reason to chase it anymore. And finally, it's a visual thing.
2. They'll have to get to know each other from scratch. But it was meant as a startling reminder that the three were "growing up". They would always be best friends. And always there for each other in a crisis. But the days of the "TRIO" being joined at the hip were sliding away.
3. Gate starts over. A perfect paradox.
4. Brooklyn does actually. Mostly they just get older and more parental.
What stage was Broadway and Angela's relationship at, when Coldfire and Coldstone borrowed their bodies for that offscreen "reunion"? I remember that when the Colds thanked them for the loan, Angela said, "It was... our pleasure", and Broadway gave a look like he thought, "Wow, really?"
Just beginning. It was a major (if subtle) step in their relationship. It created a connection. Brought Broadway to Angela's special attention.
Finally, the last section of the 7/94 "Leader of the Pack" memo. Act Three of the Beat Sheet. I'll try to type up my new ramble on the episode soon...
8. Goliath, Hudson and Broadway arrive at the Packmedia Studio. It's quiet. Inside, they see the damage. But no sign of the missing gargoyles. The phone rings. Broadway answers it tentatively. It's Owen. He was wondering if he could schedule an appointment for the Gargoyles to have a big fight with the Pack at the Oil Tanker Whatever-Maru in the harbor. Is Midnight convenient?
9. On the Tanker. In a carvernous empty oil tank, Lex, Brook and Bronx sit inside, effectively imprisoned. Lex swears even more vengence [sic]. Brooklyn can't get through to him. (Maybe Brook makes some sarcastic reference to the three of them always getting captured. First Macbeth nets them, now the Pack.) [Note: This story just structured out that way. So this tidbit was me acknowledging the coincidence, so that the viewer wouldn't think we -- the writers -- were oblivious to it. Greg 2000] Eventually, the other three gargoyles show up for the fight. Broadway is sent to find the others while Goliath and Hudson run interference. At one point, Goliath digs his claws into Coyote's helmet and rips it off, revealing "Xanatos". Goliath isn't too surprised. But eventually after the others are freed, he is surprised. Bronx again beelines for "Xanatos"/Coyote. He smells robot and claws off half of the rubber Xanatos mask to reveal the Coyote robot beneath. [Do you know, I was half afraid that some people would take this to mean that Xanatos had been a robot all along. Greg 2000] Even the Pack is shocked and the tide of battle begins to turn for good, especially after Lex picks up one of Dingo's fallen weapons and blows a hole in Coyote's chest. The robot really malfunctions now. The head "evacuates" and rockets into the sky to escape. The Pack decides to retreat in their Attack Vehicle, but opt to blow up the tanker to cover their escape. Lex in the end has to choose between saving Brooklyn and preventing the Pack's escape. Obviously, he saves Brooklyn and the Pack gets away, though with their doggy tails firmly between their legs. The ship goes down. The Gargoyles tread water. Brooklyn thanks Lex, but Lex is grateful that Brooklyn reminded him what was really important to him. And the gargoyles have a long swim back to shore.
10. Parole board. Fox is released. (Let's not mention Xanatos here.)
11. Fox steps out of prison to be greeted by (surprise, surprise) Xanatos in his Limo. They kiss. She's grateful to be out, but she's sorry his vengeance plan against the gargoyles didn't work. But Xanatos never wanted vengeance. (He's no mook.) He has his priorities straight. He just wanted to stage scene [sic] to get her out. (I love the line about icing and Fox being the cake.) But, she asks, aren't you anry that Coyote was destroyed. Xanatos holds up Coyote's head and admires it like Yorick. Half of it is still recognizable as Xanatos. Half reveals the robot skull underneath. My dear Fox, robots are easily destroyed and rebuilt. But they'll never destroy the true Coyote. Because the true coyote is Xanatos. Or some such. [Interesting. We seemed to save this idea for "Cloud Fathers". Went with the "true love" line instead.] Go out on the robot head, half smiling a typical Xanatos smile.
And that's all folks....
Sorry, everyone, I know this is going very slowly. But transcribing is really boring. So I can't stand to do too much at a time. Anyway, here's another chunk of my 7-2-94 memo to Michael Reaves regarding "Leader of the Pack":
1. Sundown. Open w/prison break. Let's make it much more fast and furious. It can start quier, but almost immediately should go to explosions, alarms, etc. The guards become aware of the break IMMEDIATELY. A big action set-piece. No time for a lot of talk. Also, let's have Dingo bust out the boys, and Coyote bust out the girls. It's a more practical plan. They'll all meet up in the NEW all-terrain PACK ATTACK vehicle. (And no, Kenner isn't asking for this, I am. Xanatos has the resources. After he saw Macbeth's hover-thing, he'd start his people on R&D. This is the result. The Pack should not be hand-to-mouth. This thing should be a flying submarine multi-purpose thing. Real cool.)
2. Just after sundown at the clock tower, Elisa informs the argoyles that there's a prison break and the Pack's involved. Lex goes bananas. WE'VE GOT TO BRING THEM DOWN. Goliath agrees with the sentiment, if not he intensity. Manhattan is their castle to protect. But Broadway wants to know, how do they find the Pack? Lex is sure they'll return to Packmedia Studios. Elisa disagrees, that's the first place the cops are going to look. Lex is positive. They're like animals. They'll eventually return to their cave to hide. He's going there to wait and watch. Goliath figures on being more pro-active. He knows Xanatos is behind the Pack from Elisa's talk with Fox in "Brother's Keeper". He's going to the castle. Broadway & Hudson are going with him. Brooklyn is concerned about Lex. He insists on going with Lex to the studio. He also insists on taking Bronx.
3. Aboard the Pack's vehicle, Coyote and Wolf fight for the right to lead. (Let Wolf make the first challenge, so that we aren't forced to make Hyena politely step aside.) Coyote wins, but Hyena and Jackal insist on seeing his face. Coyote vouluntarily removes his helmet, revealing that he is "Xanatos".
(to be continued...)
This continues my transcription of the memo I wrote to Michael Reaves on 7-2-94 regarding Steve Perry's original outline on "Leader of the Pack"...
Specific Notes & Questions...
Some of these will be rendered moot by other changes, but for future reference...
--No YoYo's for Brooklyn. He's too old to be playing with that. (Not that I don't enjoy a well-balanced yo-yo myself, but it's embematic [sic] of being really young. Like having him play jacks. Remember, this is a guy who likes motorcycles.)
--I liked the Hudson game show scenelet. Maybe slip that in right before Elisa tells the gargs about the prison break. If it no longer fits, save it for another episode.
--I think Wolf is a descendant of Hakon's. [It's interesting to me now that I put this comment in this memo. It's absolutely apropos of nothing. I must have just wanted to write it down somewhere so that I'd remember. Greg 2000]
--The gargoyles exo-sheathe remnants don't dissolve into vapor.
--Is a smoking jacket really Xanatos' style?
--Suddenly, on the bottom of page 3, Goliath has spider-sense. Maybe not.
--Goliath seems to be brooding about things he's already come to terms with. "...enemy one day, friend the next." He learned that lesson from the Captain in episodes 1 & 2.
(to be continued soon...)
sorry if you have read this already but I think this Q was trashed so here it is again.
You said that you guys wanted to elaborate on the Trio after the 5 parter, Lex up first.
1) Was there any perticular reason you decided it that way? Or..what ya draw straws;)
2) Second, I had noticed a pattern. After Awakenings we had an ep first on lex, then brook, then
broadway. Later on in the series we see it again. An episode with lex and the pack (sadly), then
brook and his mutant girl problems, then (though with a slight intermission) an episode on
Broadway. Even later in TGC we see Ransom, then Runaways, and Broadway goes Hollywood
*shudders just saying it* yuck. But anyway, again, a pattern. Was this intentional? Like, "hey it
worked the first time?" Or pure coincidence?
1. We didn't exactly draw straws. We knew we wanted to do the Trio tryptich but on one level it didn't matter who came first. It was the stories that defined that. We had just "killed" Demona off in Awakening 5. We wanted to let the mystery of whether or not she survived last longer than one episode. So Temptation couldn't go first. And Elisa getting shot would create an on-going situation, since we didn't want her injury to vanish. On the other hand, we did want to establish that Xanatos being in prison wasn't stopping him from conducting his affairs. Add all that up, and the order defines itself.
2. Coincidence if that. (I'm not sure what you've described even qualifies as a pattern.)
In future tense, Broadway has spikes on his tail and more horns on his head. Is this because this is what Broadway will look like in 40 years or because Puk felt like giving him some extra spikes just because he thought Broadway looked better that way. Also you said that eventully Lexington would grow bigger but not as big as Broadway and Brooklyn. But he looks the same size after 40 years, is this because of the fact that Lexington is now half covered in metal and this stunted his growth or is it something else?
Nothing in Puck's illusion is trust-worthy. Doesn't mean it WON'T happen. But don't get too anal about it.
ASK GREG is back up and running. (Thank you, Gorebash.)
Unfortunately, Murphy's Law in in effect, and I'm now swamped with work. (More on that tomorrow.) I'll try to get to your questions and comments A.S.A.P. In the meantime, I've watched another episode "Leader of the Pack". I've taken notes to write a ramble but I don't have time to compose it tonight. But I also wanted to post my July, '94 memo to Michael Reaves regarding his first draft outline on this episode. (Like the one I posted for "Reawakening".) I have a hard copy of this memo, but unfortunately -- there's that Murphy's Law again -- I don't seem to have a computer file for it. (Which, frankly, is truly bizarre.) Still, retyping this is faster than composing something original. But I don't know if I'll have time to retype the entire five page memo tonight. So bear with me. This could take a while... (I'll try to keep all the typos intact. And I'll add a few new comments in [brackets].)
Greg Weisman 7-2-94
NOTES ON OUTLINE for "Leader of the Pack"
Michael, I think we can focus the story a little more. And I think there's quite a bit of padding that we can trim down, but on the whole, a good start.
--Let's focus this by making it Lexington's story. A real companion piece to "Thrill of the Hunt". In that story, Lex was too trusting. In this he'll be hell-bent on REVENGE. That's today's theme. And today's lesson is about setting priorities -- and how revenge ain't a great one. Lex comes close to letting his lust for revenge take priority over his concern for his life and his friends. Same with the Pack. They break prison; they could head for Rio. But they want revenge on the gargoyles more. It gets them in trouble. Ironically, only Xanatos has his priorities straight. He didn't give a damn about revenge on the gargoyles. He just cared about his "friend" Fox and getting her released from her unfortunate incarceration. [A DESIGNING WOMEN reference -- Greg 2000]
--Given the above. Let's see Lex as the true monster he can be. As frightening as possible, as often as possible.
--The stuff w/Dingo's change of heart was nice. It gave me a great idea for a story about him trying to go straight, set in Australia during the WORLD TOUR. But I think it's out of place here. It's distracting to the main story. I don't want Dingo to start to turn yet. He didn't have to come back from Europe to help the others. Let's keep him gung-ho for now. (When we do the Pack Upgrade Story, in which Wolf will submit to Doc Sevarius' genetic treatment ala Talon, and Hyena and Jackal will undergo cyborgizing ala Coldstone, we'll plant the seed there that Dingo thinks things are getting carried away. He'll choose removable robot-armor, and we'll play some of these beats then.) [When you're working on 65 episodes you try not to waste anything. And the characters begin to define their own destinies. But you need to pace them. -- Greg 2000]
--Coyote's abilities need some clarification. Let's start by thinking this is a stranger wearing some kind of power-armor. Jet black, anubis-headed armor. We'll modify or harmonize Jonathan's voice. Then when he removes the dog-faced armored head, we reveal that it's Xanatos inside the armor. The audience will buy this because of "The Edge" story. When COYOTE has the "helmet" off, we'll use Jonathan's voice un-harmonized. But obviously for battle scenes he'll put the helmet back on. A slight clue that Coyote isn't the real Xanatos will be that Coyote seems more determined to get revenge than we'd normally expect from the rational Xanatos we've come to know and love. Then at the end, we'll reveal the robot beneath the Xanatos face. We also need to make a bigger deal of this reveal. I think it would be cool, if after the body is damaged beyond repair, the semi-damaged head, takes off, shooting into the sky like a comet, abandoning the Pack. At any rate, we can now have Coyote be very powerful throughout the episode, without our audience suspecting the truth. What can the Coyote "armor" (i.e. the Coyote/Xanaots robot) do? Does it have built-in jet-boots and weapons systems? Let's make it real tough and cool.
--In general, we need to be really careful not to let the Pack seem weak or incompetent. I doubt Elisa can outshoot them. They've been defeated twice already. If we don't up the ante, we've lost these characters as effective adversaries.
--The huge emphasis on updrafts can be dumped. We've already shown the gargoyles glide to and from Liberty Island in "The Edge". How far out in the water is this tanker? Better not to go into too much detail.
--Same with the Pack's search for the gargoyles. Why raise the issue about how easy it is to find the gargoyles? Besides, the method used here could take weeks, if not months. Let the gargoyles find the Pack. We can dump the CD-ROM disk.
--The mirrored shields was a good idea. But it pre-supposes a Lexington who is rational enough to use his head and come up with it. Not this story. But remember it for later use. [O.K. I guess some things did get wasted. --Greg 2000]
--We definitely don't need or want Derek in this story. If it comes before "Metamorphosis" than we don't want to mess with his loyalty to Xanatos. If it comes after, then obviously he's not Derek anymore, but Talon. Anyway, we won't need him. The way I figure it, Elisa's role in this story is fairly minimal. I didn't like her as victim/hostage, so I largely dumped her. So we can leave Derek out, as well.
--Fox should protect he guard first, then refuse to go. When she refuses Hyena's inclined to kill her too. Coyote prevents it by indicating there's no time. Also, I've cut the middle Fox scene 14. Better that the audience forget about her until the end.
Specific Notes & Questions....
[to follow tomorrow, hopefully...]
In the end, two things above all others IMHO should be remembered in ANY debate of Goliath vs. Brooklyn:
1) Brooklyn admires and looks up to Goliath, despite any disagreements.
2) Goliath made Brooklyn Second-in-command because he felt Brooklyn was best suited for the job.
To put down one is actually indirectly putting down the other.
That bears repeating:
TO PUT DOWN ONE IS ACTUALLY INDIRECTLY PUTTING DOWN THE OTHER.
You guys can do what you want, of course.
And I certainly don't mind in depth discussions of either character. I thought Toku Kaioto's essay on Brooklyn was fantastic.
And I don't mind a fun poll like: "Ladies, which garg-hunk do you prefer?"
But I don't really see what you get by putting the characters' natures in opposition debate, as if they were or are in some competition with each other.
Now I promise, that was my last word on the subject.
In your vision, how does Goliath feel about Broadway and Angela's relationship? Does he approve of Broadway as a future "son-in-law"?
But again, try not to think too much like a human. Angela is just one of many clan-daughters. Since you know he likes Broadway, why wouldn't he want the big guy to mate with one of them?
Once again thanks for the opportunity to chew the fat.
One thing that always bothered me was how easliy the surviving clan memebers pick up their lives after the sudden murder of almost everyone they cared for. When they wake up in Manhattan for the first time, by their reckoninging, the massacre occurred the day before and would be fresh in their minds. I couldn't even imagine getting out of bed or even wanting to go on if I lost my family. Yet the trio are resilient enough to go exploring. I know they are in a brave new world and all but would they be so thrill seeking after so recently being rocked with grief. I hope I don't sound overly critical here, I don't mean to be. It just appears that the emotional impact of the massacre on the clan isn't as pervasive through the series as I'd expect. I just keep coming back to the notion that grief over a loss of that magnitude would be almost paralyzing. Would they even want to be alive?. Obviously, for the show, yes but ..... uhhh .
And then there is Tempatation. I know Brooklyn is grateful to Demona for saving him from the bikers, but you have to think that in the back of his mind he's thinking, "My family and friends were killed because of what you did !" I'm surprised he didn't go for her throat. How angry are we at the drunk driver who unintnentional kills. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the same room with that individual let alone take a tour of the city them.
If the clan is capable of getting on with their lives so quicky and still not give into to hating Demona then they are certainly better than I am.
The massacre is fresh in their minds, because no new experiences have taken their place. But they were asleep. Not in suspended animation. There is a sense of time having passed. A long time. A lot of dreaming. Not the next day.
I think maybe we could have, and should have, done more with survivors' guilt, post-traumatic stress syndrome, devastation, etc. We mostly personified that in Goliath, in episodes like "Awakening, Part Two" and "Shadows of the Past". It WAS more emblematic than honest, I'm afraid.
But, yeah, we did have a series to do. And five suicidal miserable gargoyles don't make for much of a show. Plus, I think we gave them REASONS to go on. A new world to explore and understand. Opponents to distract them. New friends to help mitigate the pain. And we did deal with it on occasion and would have continued to do the same.
As for "Temptation", I think the very confusion that the Massacre engendered kept Brooklyn from thinking straight. When there are so few gargoyles and we know that humans (i.e. the Vikings) did the actual killing, it's hard to know (that early on) whether or not to maintain a hate for Demona. Obviously, after Temptation he didn't have that problem.
And, you know what, maybe these particular Gargoyles are a bit better than you and I. I chose to write about heroes. Not average joes.
I think Michael Reaves came up with this title. I wanted to shorten it to "Brother's Keeper" so that it would implicitly include the Trio, Goliath and his late rookery-brothers, Jackal & Hyena. But Michael talked me out of it. He was right.
This was the second out of three episodes where we attempted to do Kenner a solid by inserting a toy into the series. The Helicopter was a much more awkward fit than Brooklyn's motorcycle had been. But we all agreed to make it work. Originally, Lex was going to repair Derek's police chopper, but someone suggested using the Pack 'copter instead. So we tried to make it all play as organic as possible. Lex and the Simulator, to set up his ability to pilot the thing. Broadway bringing up the obvious question as to why winged gargs would need a chopper, so that the audience didn't think we were ignoring those points. Etc. And in the end, it still plays artificial. But fortunately it's in an episode that is othewise filled with tremendous emotional honesty. So maybe it all balances out.
Of course, the irony was that Kenner never made a gargoyle helicopter. Without telling us, they switched to a sky sled sorta thing, because they couldn't figure out how to do a helicopter that successfully interacted with the garg-toys' wings. No good deed goes unpunished.
Broadway: "If cops were meant to fly they'd have wings." I love that line.
Derek - This was part of our plan to turn Derek into Catscan. Of course, the Catscan name was eventually dropped for Talon. The original plan for Catscan had him being a scientist that worked for and was duped by Xanatos. Picture us trying to combine Derek and Anton. (I know it's a mind-bender. It was more like Derek's personality and Anton's expertise.) But the Garg Universe told me otherwise once we created Derek for "Deadly Force". He'd be the cursed one. And this was just step one. Step only, if we never got a second season. So we left it open ended. And I think it's a pretty stunning bittersweat ending. The snow starts to fall (all very symbolic) and we don't know if Derek will listen to Elisa's tape of Fox or not. And we leave Elisa, standing, wondering, thinking, as the snow falls. It's not your typical Saturday morning cartoon conclusion -- not even for a drama. What did you all think at the end of that after your first viewing?
The snow became a very important visual metaphor for me. I exchanged a few faxes with Japan to make sure (that contrary to the script) there was NO SNOW on the ground at Xanadu, no snow at all, until it starts falling during Elisa's last conversation with Derek.
Sure, Jackal and Hyena were at large, but we establish here that Wolf and Fox are in prison. Anyone looking back at "Thrill" would know that this makes sense. Lex and Goliath take Dingo, J & H out on the roof. No human witnesses to their evil. And they didn't do anything against anyone but the gargs. But Wolf and Fox were photographed taking human (well, fashion model) hostages. So they go to prison. Dingo goes to Europe. J&H are still around to do mischief. But meanwhile, most normal humans still regard them as celebrities, until Hyena pulls a knife. (We had planned once-upon-a-time to make knives a bigger element/part of their arsenal. But it was a bit problematic S&P-wise, and it became moot after "Upgrade".)
Broadway, ever Elisa's biggest fan, thinks Derek should just trust her.
Brooklyn, still scarred from trusting Demona, points out that trust doesn't mean much without honesty.
Lex, still pissed at the Pack, just wants to catch them.
And it's nice to see Morgan and Matt again. If you like guys in towels.
Xanatos, as usual, is so cool.
"Never a gargoyle around when you need one."
"Detective. Always a pleasure."
"My life is anything but dull."
And that's just his dialogue. His plan is audacious. He has Owen call the Police, counts on Elisa and the gargs to rescue him from Jackal & Hyena. (We loved playing that irony.) And instructs Fox to tell Elisa everything. He's so confident, he even has no qualms about leaving Elisa and Derek alone to talk at the end.
And you gotta love a guy named Xanatos naming his retreat Xanadu.
I love the Hannibal Lechter inspired scene between Elisa & Fox. This of course was the moment when we all figured out what the garg universe already knew: "My god, Fox is in love with Xanatos." I hadn't known that back when Fox was created in the development days of yore. Hadn't known it when we did "Thrill". Hadn't known it until we were way into script on this. But there it was. And nothing would ever be the same. (Did you guys realize it there? And how far did you think we'd take it?)
Suddenly, the events of "Leader of the Pack", "Eye of the Beholder" and "Vows" seemed to spread out before me. And Alexander became a glimmer in my eye (if not Xanatos').
Elisa acts true to form here. What we'd spell out later in "Revelations" is already implied here. Elisa is extremely (if subconsciously) reluctant to share her gargoyles secret with anyone. Three times Goliath tells her to share her secret with her brother. Three times she finds an excuse not to. (Frank Paur found this repetitive. He tried to take one of the scenes and make it play more subjective. Like Elisa imagining a conversation with Goliath, while the actual Goliath was sleeping in stone. It was a sweet idea, but it didn't make any logical sense in terms of story flow and forced us to make storyboard changes and call retakes in order to get the version we've all seen.)
We loved playing irony. Elisa and Peter are right about Xanatos, but dead wrong about the way they're trying to control Derek's life. Diane and Derek are absolutely right about Derek needing to control his own destiny, but make the tragic choice of trusting that destiny to Xanatos. Those two scenes are terrific. (Helped immensely by vocal performances. And I also love Nichelle Nichols as the diamond exchange saleslady.)
Derek thinks Elisa thinks Xanatos is the "Prince of Darkness". "He practically is!" she responds. <SIGH> Tricksters are always being confused with Satan.
But that was more irony. It's not the demonic-looking gargoyles who are being compared to Satan. It's the handsome, rich Bruce Wayne-esque playboy. I guess the goatee helps.
My daughter's reactions:
As you may have gathered, it's become fascinating to me to see how Erin is reacting differently seeing all these episodes for the second time at age 5 1/2.
She was stunned at the end of Act One and following when Derek told Elisa that he was accepting Xanatos' offer. "That's not supposed to happen," she kept saying.
And all the trio stuff made her laugh. She especially liked Goliath's admonitions to the Trio: "Try to get along."
Brooklyn sure knows his pop-culture: Star Wars and Star Trek references within a few minutes of each other.
It was important to us to show that even guys as close as the Trio could get tired of each other. Sure they're all Rookery brothers and best friends. But if they had stayed at Wyvern (i.e. if there had been no massacre) they wouldn't have had to spend ALL their time together. At the very least, females would have provided a distraction. But here in the 20th century they're all they've got. So of course, there'd be good days and bad days. Like any siblings.
And of course, the sibling theme was central to the episode, including the Jackal & Hyena's relationship. The irony there being that they were getting along better than the Trio or the Mazas.
I loved Goliath's outrage at the lack of appreciation that the Mazas and Trio have for their siblings. It's very moving to me. (And helps us set up Coldstone for next episode.)
When Lex comments that if Broadway had his way, the garg-copter would be covered with food, I knew that we were pushing Broadway's eating habits into the dull one-joke tired category. I hate that line. And we tried to back off the eating jokes after that.
Anyone notice our tribute to Launchpad McQuack when Lex says "Any landing you can walk away from..."
Some gorgeous animation in this one. I loved what they did with the lighting when Lex gets Jackal and Hyena in the chopper's spot.
--The trio toss Jackal & Hyena out of their chopper. It's o.k. They're wearing parachutes. But did the Trio know that? Maybe with Jackal, since Hyena's chute had already opened. But was Hyena tossed to her presumptive death.
Yes. After all they're still thinking (first season) like tenth century warriors, not like twentieth century super-heros.
--One of the advantages to Syndication over Network is a more liberal S&P. We could show Broadway's fist heading into camera. We couldn't actually show him punching Jackal in the head, but we could show Jackal's POV of that fist heading toward him. A couple frames of black, and then we cut wide to Jackal on the ground, and we know what happened. But on Network, in "The Journey" or, say, "Max Steel", we are NEVER allowed to even imply a head blow. And we can't show a fist or gun or whatever pointed directly at camera (i.e. at the audience). Too disturbing, I'm told.
And finally, at the end, when Elisa arrests Hyena, I've got to ask, what do you think Hyena's smiling about?
Maybe that's the next contest...
1) I am sure that Brooklyn's infatuations with both Maggie and Angela were BOTH hormonal and emotional. But which did you feel that it was more of?
2) It almost seemed out of character that Brook didn't react to Delilah with some interest. Did you ever toy with the idea?
3) Does Brooklyn's clone share his weakness for the opposite sex?
1. I'm not big on quantifying emotions.
2. No. For starters, I think all the clones sorta creeped the Trio out. And the whole Elisa/Delilah thing was just too wierd.
3. Most heterosexuals share that weakness.
Dear Greg, This question is about the Angela and Brooklyn relationship. At the end of season 2, why were you hinting at an attraction or possible relationship between them, and then out of nowhere have Broadway come in and mess everything up? Here's my proof that Angela was probably going to go with Brooklyn: in "The Reckoning", Demona hit Brooklyn and he fell onto a roof. Angela immediately rushed to his side, held up his beak, and lovingly looked into his eyes. Also, in "Hunter's Moon: Part 1" Brooklyn got shot in the arm, and Angela rushed to his side again to see if he was OK, and bandaged his arm.
I mean, how could you do that? Poor Brooklyn, the poor guy can't win. Angela and Broadway DO NOT go together. Yuck! And how could you have Angela ignore Brooklyn after all the things they did together before "The Journey." It just doesn't make sense. Why did you just suddenly change your mind with that? Brooklyn and Angela make the cutest couple, then you denied them that. How come? :)
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
I never changed my mind. I was never hinting at a possible Brooklyn/Angela romance. Quite the reverse, Gary Sperling and I decided early on that Broadway and Angela were right for each other. And we were hinting at that. Yes, Brooklyn liked her. The way he liked Maggie. That is shallowly and without any real thought as to whether his feelings were reciprocated. He didn't love the real Angela, just the romantic opportunity she represented.
As to your proof, you read that loving look into the Reckoning. Probably Brooklyn did the same. You must have wanted to believe that as he did. It was just sisterly compassion. Same in Hunter's Moon. Any injured gargoyle would have gotten the same treatment. Broadway saw the real Angela, and she saw the real Broadway. They care about each other and love each other beyond surface.
Look, obviously, you are a Brooklyn fan. Me too. Wouldn't you rather see him end up with someone he truly loved for who she was. Someone who loved him the same way. That's Katana. Trust me.
By the end of this episode, everyone is happy.
Both Goliath and Xanatos are afraid they've lost their edge. Both are convinced by the end that they've regained it. Both are at least partially deceiving themselves. [One of the little ambiguities that I love about the Xanatos tags is that one way to interpret them is that David is just full of it. He loses, but claims victory anyway.]
But David is just so lovable in this episode. You gotta love the villain who does NOT penalize his subordinate for beating him in a judo match. And he has such great audacious dialogue (kudos to Michael Reaves and Jonathan Frakes). A few approximate samples:
--"I'm the best friend you have."
--"If you're going to be picky, we won't get anywhere."
--"You're taking this much too personally."
And those were all in one scene. A scene where he's just standing out there awaiting their arrival. I mean, a guy as busy as he is... Is that confidence/arrogance or what?
And he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. Giving X the armor was essential. Up to this point, David had been only the brains. But to be a true reverse-hero, he had to be a warrior as well. Here we showed he had what it takes to mix it up. But always without being stupid. Question: How many of you knew the "red robot" was Xanatos in armor before the tag? Of course, now it seems obvious, but what about the first time you saw this ep?
And yet Elisa "Wouldn't want his karma." What goes around comes around. All that arrogance, had to receive some commeuppance. (Can anyone say Oberon?)
One thing that I thought was TOO OBVIOUS was the Steel Clan theft of the EYE OF ODIN. I would have preferred if that scene had been more ambiguous in Act One. Preferred that the audience maybe think that the Robot WAS Goliath, so that when Matt takes aim at the cliffhanger, we think he's going to shoot Goliath. The cliffhanger doesn't really play as is. Only Elisa is fooled, not the audience.
Everyone wonders why Xanatos donated the Eye to the Museum of MODERN Art. (Maybe because it had mediocre security, but adequate security cameras.) But what I want to know is whether or not Edvard Munch's "The Scream" is really at that museum?
Speaking of THE EYE, I may have mentioned that this was actually the idea of the Disney interactive video game people. We wanted to be synergistic, and I kinda liked the whole idea, so we put it into the show. It was another of our step-by-step additions to the continuity. Intro it as a minor maguffin. A dewdad for Xanatos. And build from there, with the eventual plan to actually make it Odin's eye. At some point in all this, we completely forgot that the idea came from the interactive people. We went back to see them months and months later and were reminded. Luckily the concepts hadn't gotten too far away from each other. But the design did. Unfortunately, our design wound up looking a bit Egyptian for my tastes. The Interactive design had a great Raven motif. (Oh, well.)
New characters (more or less):
A cameo by Derek.
The first mention of the Emir.
The first appearance of Travis Marshall. Michael and I worked this guy out together. He wouldn't be one of those fluff journalists. He'd be old school. He wouldn't whitewash David, just because the guy was a rich man. We always made sure to give Travis that edge. And still, I always felt we underused him. In this episode, Matt gives him a lift in Derek's chopper. Matt says, "You owe me one." Eventually, I'd like to see Matt collect on that favor in a story focusing on the two of them.
And speaking of Matt...
The first real appearance of Matt Bluestone. This guy was largely Michael Reaves' creation. (Although the "Bluestone" name was one of our earlier choices for Elisa's last name. After Chavez, Reed and Chavez, but before Maza.) At first, I admit I was dubious about him being a conspiracy nut. But it so worked. And this was the first time I ever worked with Tom Wilson. He's just so great. And so damn funny to have in the booth. (I love him in FREAKS & GEEKS.)
Matt & Elisa discuss the Illuminati, UFO's and Loch Ness. I love how dubious she is, with her inside joke: "Believe me, the world's strange enough as it is." Little does she know.
But my favorite thing about Matt is that ultimately he's a healthy influence on Elisa... "Maybe that's when you need one [a partner] the most." He's just a really good guy.
As usual, characters keep their promises. Matt vows to find out what those creatures (the gargs) are. And by God, eventually he does.
More on continuity...
Elisa's only JUST coming back to work. In cartoon terms, the fact that we waited this long after her gunshot wound, was a relative eternity. The height of cartoon realism. It doesn't seem like very long, but months passed between the original airings of DEADLY FORCE and THE EDGE.
And Chavez won't let her go back on the job without a partner. Michael conceptualized Matt -- after I mandated the creation of Elisa's partner. Cops have partners. It is one of the defining things about cops. When cop-shows show cops working solo, it always bugs me. I felt we got away with it for a bit. But it was time to make Elisa a more real cop. And that meant a partner. Not a bad guy. But someone who could potentially cause her trouble. And yet still really be her partner.
Broadway is still very solicitous toward Elisa. Taking the tv from her. It's sweet.
The show is gorgeous to look at. (Thanks Roy, et al.)
I love Lexington's line when he regains consciousness: "We're still alive. How come?"
Watching the show this time, my daughter was very nervous that the Statue of Liberty would be damaged in the battle between our gargs and the Steel Clan. But when Broadway nailed one robot by impaling him with a metal claw from the other robot, Erin said, "Nice one."
Goliath is reading Dostoevsky. Are you?
Greg, can we make guesses as to the identity of the fifth member of the Ultra-Pack, or will those fall under the category of ideas?
(Prediction: We can guess as much as we want to, but the answer, like Lex's mate is and what Titania whispered to Fox,will remain mysteries forever)
On a scale, where the likelihood of my revealing what Titania said is a ten and revealing BROOKLYN'S MATE is a one (since I alreadly revealed that), I'd put Lex's mate at about a six and the fifth Pack Member as a four.
It's really pointless to guess, however. The character is brand new. There are no clues currently built into the cannon. Thus, as you surmised, almost every guess would play like an idea and Gore would have to boot them.
What made Angela decide to become mates with Broadway? (I'm not one of those people who are actually upset about this turn of events, i just wanted to know) I personally thought Angela and Brooklyn would've been a good couple.
Why did you think that?
People say this all the time to me, because Brooklyn is the obvious (more-or-less) romantic lead type. But what actually made you think that they'd make a good couple?
As to why Broadway/Angela, I've answered that ad nauseum. Sorry. Check the archives for multiple more complete answers. The short answer is that Broadway loved Angela for who she was. Brooklyn for what she was. That's a huge difference that Angela could sense.
Broadway and Angela have a lot in common that way. They both read people well. They look inside. Not at surfaces.
I was also wondering, is Brooklyn's hatred for Demona based simply on her manipulation of him in "Temptation," or was it at least partially based on the fact that she is responsible for more Gargoyle deaths than any individual human he is aware of? For clarification, if it weren't for her treachery, neither Hakon or Canmore would have the oppurtunity to destroy the clans in the past.
I doubt he even knows about the Canmore stuff.
But I'm sure the personal betrayal is all tied in with the Wyvern massacre.
Another ramble as I review the entire series. Comments welcome.
"Deadly Force". I have to admit. I never liked the title. It always sounded too generic to me. Michael Reaves pointed out how appropriate it was, but "Temptation" had already given me a taste for one word titles. I came to prefer those, unless I was given a damn good reason not to.
The third episode of our trio tryptich. Broadway. Broadway and Goliath. Broadway, Elisa and Goliath. But this episode represents so much more.
If you were watching the series in '94 during it's original run, and you didn't already think, "Hey, this is different." Then by the end of Act One of "Deadly Force" you knew. I don't know if there's ever been a cartoon like "Deadly Force". A mainstream media production. We had had up to that point a few fairly shocking cliffhangers, a few fairly shocking events, but what equals Broadway pulling that trigger, the suddenly "empty" kitchen and Elisa lying in a pool of her own blood as we fade to black and cut to a commercial?
Where do I start? With pride, I guess. I am extremely proud of this one.
Guns. My personal stance on gun control isn't an issue. Not in this episode. This is about something that I think every even vaguely intelligent person can agree on. Guns aren't toys. Guns aren't "cool", no matter how they're depicted in the media. Guns demand respect. Elisa is at fault. Broadway's massively at fault. Because neither held enough respect for the weapon. (Now one might argue that Elisa lived -- nominally -- alone. It didn't occur to her that she needed to be more careful with her weapon. But it should have. She's a cop. She should know better.) As I write this, as I watched the episode tonight, my head is of course filled with thoughts of the six year old boy who yesterday took his uncle's gun to school and shot a six year old girl, killing her. And I don't want to sound arrogant. But I am angry. And I feel like this episode could really help people. That parents should HAVE to watch this with their kids. Required viewing. And the fact that Toon Disney won't even air it...! I'm furious. Simply furious.
Guns are the least of it. We wanted to send a message about repercussions. Real world repercussions. I wanted our series to be ABOUT repercussions. Demona and the Captain betray Wyvern. There are repercussions. You can't fix things. You can't go back and change it. That's why time travel in the Gargoyles' Universe has such STRICT laws. Without those laws, you remove the dramatic law of repercussions. The real world law that actions have repercussions. This episode was our ode to repercussions. The guns were just our means to an end.
Still, guns would be our medium and the episode is laced with them. With gun imagery. With gun language (e.g. Chavez referring to Dracon's alibi: "He's bulletproof.", etc.). I don't think the episode is too pedantic. I hope it's honest. Probably the most dishonest thing in the story was that Elisa DIDN'T die. Forgive me for that. But I couldn't let her go just then. Still, I think we gave our audience a bigger scare in this one then in most of the other episodes combined. Maybe she would die. There's a sense of scary (again real world) vulnerability in this. And we tried to make her injuries and suffering as realistic as possible. We weren't doing E.R. (or St. Elsewhere, since E.R. didn't exist back then), but we did try to make the medical stuff play true.
All this makes me proud. Proud of what's on the screen.
But there's a whole other side to the making of this show that makes me proud. For what isn't visible on screen. For teamwork. This is a story that seemed to need to be told. Most of the springboards for the 66 chapters came from me, but this one was waiting for us. My bosses Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston were behind the story from the start. Michael Reaves wrote an amazing script, and my God the thing is beautifully made. No one balked. Not our S&P executive. Not our bosses. No one. Think about how amazing that is? We had one of our young heroes pick up a very REAL gun and shoot our female lead in her own kitchen. That's pretty intense.
And fairly rewarding. Even our publicity department saw the value in this one. They got advance copies and sent them out. We had (always had) phenomenally good reviews. But this episode brought us praise from the kind of parents groups that most action cartoon shows usually fear. People got it. They got it. Dr. Madeline Levine wrote a book called "Viewing Violence". It's a fairly sobering study of the effect of modern media on impressionable minds. Disabused me of a few notions, I'll tell you. But she praises GARGOYLES, specifically this episode, in her book. People got it. But not TOON DISNEY people, I guess. They show a huge lack of respect for everyone who worked on that show. Everyone who did or might benefit from it.
(Re: The pool of blood. When it first came back from Japan, the pool of blood was much larger. We pulled it back by calling a retake. This wasn't cowardice on anyone's part. This was us trying to get our message across. We didn't want kids goofing on the pool of blood. Interested in the pool for the pool's sake, so to speak. We wanted enough blood there to make it real. To scare everyone. But we didn't want the pool to be distracting. And also we didn't want to imply that Elisa had already bled out.)
Broadway - First and foremost, this was still designed to showcase Broadway. All our nobler aspirations wouldn't matter if you walked out of this episode still thinking of the big guy as an eating machine and nothing else. So let's start by praising Bill Faggerbakke and voice director Jamie Thomason. Bill's performance is wonderfully poignant without falling into bathos.
And man, who is the scariest gargoyle when angered? Goliath? Demona? How about a vote for old Broadway? Guilt and anger tear him apart, and no one's safe. He PALMS Glasses for God's sake. He's young but maturing fast. I only had vague notions of Angela at this time. And I sure didn't know they were destined for each other. But I can see it here. The child who's done something so bad he's afraid to go home, ultimately taking responsibility for actions too horrible for most of us to face. Amazing strength of character.
Elisa - A secondary purpose (tertiary?) was to demonstrate that Elisa was a real human being, with real connections. A real life. She has a boss (introducing Maria Chavez), an apartment (introducing the loft), a cat (introducing Cagney). And she wasn't born a twenty-something police detective. She has a family. A father (introducing Sgt. Peter Maza), a mother (introducing Diane Maza), a brother (introducing Derek Maza) and a sister who's away at college (we even get a photo peak at Beth Maza). This wasn't some cypher who existed only to facilitate things for the Gargoyles. This was a woman whose life extended beyond their reach. A woman who now lived in TWO worlds. With two sets of hospital visitors.
Elisa's ethnic/racial make-up parallels actress Salli Richardson's, who has both African American and Native American ancestry. This is where serendipidy played a roll. We'd later get stories out of her multi-racial background. And it paralleled the inter-species romance we were preparing to build slowly. Sometimes, everything just goes your way.
Goliath - He says he'll find the man who shot Elisa and "Make him Pay". We didn't have to say "kill" there. Again, because this early in the series, we could all easily believe that Goliath could kill. And in fact, when Broadway tells Goliath that he "can't" kill Dracon, Goliath's response is: "You think not?" All the gargoyles had an edge of danger. We may have lost some of that along the way. It's natural. You get to know characters, you stop feeling tense around them. But here, both Goliath and Broadway go a little berserk. And we don't know how they'll act.
And Goliath already loves Elisa. It's so clear to me. The way he touches her hair. The way he reacts to her being shot. He loves her. He doesn't know it yet. But it is SO there. That moment when Goliath tells Broadway that they should go see Elisa, and Broadway is thrilled because he thinks that means that Elisa survived. And then Goliath stops. Because he realizes he isn't sure if Elisa is still alive. It slays me.
And meanwhile, Goliath is adapting fairly fast to the modern world. He clearly got his head around the idea that Xanatos was put away for possessing "stolen property", so he leaves the busted gun in Dracon's lap to make sure Dracon goes away too. He says as much. Not bad for a medieval gargoyle.
And this whole episode is a character-fest. Besides the above mentioned Family Maza, etc. We bring back Bruno, head of Xanatos' security. This was intentional. Establishing that the commandos from episode 2 were just Xanatos' security team being given an unusual assignment.
There's Dracon (pre-stripe) with Glasses and even Pal Joey. Rocky Caroll really brought Glasses to life. I like him. And Dracon, well, I just love his old-fashioned "noive". Calling Elisa "Honey" and "Sugar". Sending Glasses off to sell guns right in front of her. He's pretty fun in this episode.
Owen is incredibly cool. You can really see the Mr. Smithers influence in this one. Times ten. He fights, he negotiates. He manipulates. He's a phenomenal proxy for Xanatos. A true trickster with a low burning flame.
We also introduced Doctor Sato. I always planned on using him more. We just never found the story. Too bad. I liked him a lot.
And we cameo Matt. Originally, Chavez's driver was going to be Morgan. But we had already started work on "The Edge". We knew Matt was coming. So we decided to preview him here. Just a nice little touch for anyone paying attention.
I'd love to know a little bit more about the movie "Showdown", a black and white western that was premiering in 1994. A score by Ennio Morricone (channeled through Carl Johnson -- a guy who doesn't get enough praise for the stunning work he did on the show). And the movie seemed to be a hit. Go figure.
And what about that movie theater. The balcony is closed. But they're storing bags of pre-popped popcorn. How old was that stuff?
Finally, Owen is very specific about the 37 missing weapons. Early on, I tried to keep count. To allow Broadway to eventually account for every one of those guns. But that was one detail that got away from me.
[More rambles on individual episodes. As usual, I encourage you to post your responses here.]
Part two of our trio tryptich. Brooklyn looks pretty cool in this one. I have to admit, I didn't realize what a break-out star Brooklyn was back then. I mean I liked him, but I didn't yet realize how much he would really capture a huge chunk of fandom's imagination. (Of course, back then the show hadn't aired yet, so there wasn't any fandom.) But seeing this episode in hindsight, you can sure see how cool this guy was. Good-looking with the hair and the muscles and everything. Even the snout adds to the look.
And he's so sympathetic too. Yes, he gets "turned" by Demona. But he immediately realizes that what she's doing is wrong. He admits his mistake and tries to correct it. He's such a good guy. Later, of course, I'd recognize the star power and attempt to give him his own series: TIMEDANCER.
Back then, of course, I had really modeled the ensemble nature of the show on HILL STREET BLUES. Goliath was my Frank Furillo. Everyone would get their own stories, but Goliath carried the weight. So, although the tryptich was designed to deepen the characters of the trio, you can see that each episode also prominently features Goliath. THRILL: Lex & Goliath. TEMPTATION: Brooklyn & Goliath. DEADLY FORCE: Broadway & Goliath. (And later, LONG WAY TO MORNING: Hudson & Goliath.) Don't get me wrong, I don't regret this at all. I think those are all great stories, and without Goliath they would not have worked as written. But I think the design of them betrays a bit of insecurity. We weren't sure if the other characters could carry their own episodes alone. The nice thing about the tryptich (and LONG WAY) was that it proved to us what a strong ensemble of characters we had built.
Lex has some real attitude here: "You rode a horse once, does that mean you could build one from scratch."
The motorcycle is interesting. It was one of three toy driven elements we consciously put into the show. (The others were in "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Eye of the Storm".) It was a rare moment of Kenner and Disney being in semi-synch. And the toy actually looks like the motorcycle. But of course, what the hell were we going to do with a motorcycle? How could we make that an on-going element in the show. Sure Batman has a batmobile, but the garg-cycle just sounds silly. So we put it in, but Michael, Brynne, Frank and I are so subversive that we blow the thing up before the end of Act One. Kenner never said anything. I'm not sure if they ever saw the episode. (But we weren't being very good partners.) But what goes around comes around. I'll tell the flip side of this when I ramble on Keeper and Storm.
S&P required that Brooklyn wear a helmet when riding. That was fine with me, but I wanted to make an effort to make it organic. Brooklyn puts it on because it's "All part of the look." Helmets make it cooler. Thus helmets are cool. Thus kids will wear their helmets. Aren't we sneaky?
Also, Brooklyn loses yet another pair of sunglasses.
Morgan's back. But he litters. That always bugged me. Talk about setting a bad example.
And is that Margot Yale's actress sister on the television sitcom saying, "Who do you think you are... Elvis?" [Add laugh track here.]
"Kindred Spirits" - Brooklyn quotes Lex from Thrill and attempts to make the same kind of connection with the bikers that Lex attempted with the Pack. With similar results. Later, Demona refers to Lex's little adventure with the Pack. This was the moment when Michael Reaves and I decided to attempt to treat the series as episodic but sequential. The order of the episodes would matter. Yes, you should be able to enjoy any individual story... but viewing is enhanced when you see the shows in order. This was not an obvious decision. Most shows REQUIRE that episodes are airable in ANY ORDER. We had that requirement too, up to a point. But we wanted to add something more. To play with continuity. With evolving lives. This wasn't an issue in the pilot five parter. Of course, that had to air in order. And then there was Thrill. Just the first one we made after Awakening. That aired next. But we didn't think about it. But here, we had to decide. So we opted for an episodic but sequential series. (My favorite kind.) We referred to previous conversations. (Elisa's still pestering Goliath about the Xanatos-ticking clock.) And we laid pipe for future episodes, by having Demona rip a few spells out of the Grimorum. (At the time, I didn't even know what those spells were for. But I knew she had them. I knew we'd use them.) We had Demona admit she had lied about how she had survived to the present. Etc. Anyway, all this continuity would later bite us on the ass a bit. (I'll talk more about this when we get to "ENTER MACBETH", which forced us to slightly change our M.O. for season two.) But again, I have no regrets; I think it's one of the things that makes the show special.
Meanwhile, how did Demona know about the Pack & Lex? Although the pact with Xanatos clearly hasn't been broken yet (not till CITY OF STONE, obviously), she also doesn't exactly have free run of the castle. She has Brooklyn steal the book. Of course, she wants Brooklyn complicit. And it's hard to sneak around the castle, when the Gargoyles (at least think that they) are the proprieters. I just always wondered whether Demona might not have been following Lex & Goliath around throughout that entire Pack battle. Or whether, Xanatos just phoned her and told her. Obviously, the former is much more interesting.
Another great looking episode that we didn't fully appreciate at the time. Lots of great little touches. I love when Demona casts her spell, and then closes the Grimorum with one last flash of magic. So cool. And, as I said, Brooklyn really looks great throughout.
But there are a couple things...
The bikers approach Brooklyn. They get very close, and he's not in shadow. But they don't notice he's a "monster" until he takes off his helmet. What?! The snout didn't give it away?! That scene continues to drive me nuts. I just hate how it was staged.
And when Elisa's lecturing Goliath she is wagging her index finger in his face. That's annoying enough. But worse, the finger seems to get longer (like Pinocchio's nose) the more she wags (or nags). It's sorta mesmerizing. In that scene, I can't see anything else.
I love how Marina Sirtis' voice bristles when Brooklyn mentions Elisa to Demona. Demona/Marina forces herself to say that the Detective may be "The exception [to human evil] that proves the rule." It seems sincere, but I really hear the hatred underneath.
Elisa tries to talk Goliath into leaving again. This time, she's got an idea where he can go. (So although that seems to be a repeat of their conversation from THRILL, we actually advanced that plot too. Weren't we smart?)
[And yes, I realize that all these rambles sound incredibly arrogant and immodest. I'm sitting here praising me and my team's own work. But what can I tell you? I do really like it. And I figure you guys might still be interested in my -- totally biased -- observations.]
Anyway, I love how what Elisa's saying to a very close-minded Goliath plays right into what Brooklyn heard from Demona. Brooklyn tries to argue Elisa's point. Putting Elisa and Demona, ironically, on the same side. Kudos to Brynne and Michael. It's a great little scene. Of course it ends with Brooklyn and Goliath turning to stone mid-argument. Just like Lex & Goliath did in the previous episode. Frank came to me and warned me not to do that again. Twice in two episodes was enough. At least for a while.
I also love Goliath's lines about "half-truths that [Demona] has thoroughly embraced."
Goliath just loves saying "Joy-Ride". It seems so pleasant.
Lex's double take reactions to finding out the motorcycle was blown up.
Elisa's "Thanks, I think." reaction to Brooklyn saying that he knew that she at least was a worthwhile member of the human race. Brooklyn still isn't quite free of prejudice. A work in progress.
The DEAD BODY. I held my breath on that one. We've got a chalk outline. And a corpse in a body bag. I was sure S&P would balk. But Adrienne was great. She saw that it was important to the story. And since we didn't dwell on it or explain it, she figured little kids wouldn't get it and/or be traumatized. As you can see we had a great working relationship with S&P. I mean, a DEAD BODY! It still shocks me.
Did Demona pay that family to perform their little scene for Brooklyn? I didn't think so at the time. But now I'm suspicious.
Brooklyn has a perfectly innocent line about the Cloisters being a place like the "world we came from" or something like that. Meaning of course, the medieval time that they came from. Once this aired, I immediately start seeing e-mails claiming this as evidence that Gargoyles are from another planet. This misapprehension may be one of the reasons I so quickly got involved with fandom.
Did we cheat? Elisa solves Goliath's slave-spell problem by using the spell to unhex him. I love that little bit. But Michael Reaves and I had a long back & forth discussion where we debated whether we were cheating the audience. (I seem to recall that at different times he and I both came down on both sides of the argument.) We finally decided to go for it. And again, no regrets. I do think it worked. And we sort of both promised each other that we wouldn't pull that kind of thing again. (Airwalker, I think there's a mention of this in the City of Stone memo I sent you.)
More musings on individual GARGOYLES EPISODES. As usual I welcome reactions and responses posted here based on both your original impressions from when you first saw the episode and later thoughts from repeated or recent viewings.
After the semi-epic "Awakening" multi-parter, Michael Reaves and I consciously set about creating a tryptich to develop each member of the Trio. Lex up first.
In hindsight, we probably didn't do enough Lex episodes. (I think this is Thom Adcox's favorite. He said "Leader of the Pack" at the pro-chat the other day, but the more I think about it, the more I think he was describing "Thrill".) We tried to give each member of the Trio equal coverage, but down the road, Lex might have been cheated a bit. But not here.
I love the fact that Lex is RIGHT. Sure, he's wrong about the Pack, but he was so right about taking chances on people. And I love that as stubborn as Goliath is, he's capable of admitting his mistakes, giving Lex full credit for, uh, rightness. Practically quoting back to Lex everything Lex had said to him.
You may notice that starting with this episode and running through the end of the first season, the writer's got their credit at the beginning with the title of the episode. This was a function of the Disney Afternoon. Michael Reaves rightly objected to the "gang credits" at the end of the two hour block. It had never been an issue before, because annually each new series, i.e. the one with original episodes, had always aired last with its credits immediately following. But in Gargoyles' first season, we aired on Fridays at 4pm, a half-hour before the last show. That meant that the writers' credits didn't appear until a half hour after the show ended. Gary Krisel agreed to make an exception and display writer's credits at the head of the episode for that one season. I wish I had fought to make that rule permanent. I didn't. Mea culpa.
I think Thrill is important right off because it established a few things which today we take for granted, but which I think were, at the time, fairly unusual for a cartoon series.
--Xanatos was still in prison. He hadn't just "somehow" gotten sprung between the end of Episode 5 and the beginning of 6.
--The Gargoyles won the Awakening war. And the castle still wasn't theirs to keep. At every turn, Michael and I just tried to make things play in a slow, steady logical progression. I wasn't trying to change the world in every episode. Not because I'm against world changing, but because each new situation was fascinating to explore. But we wouldn't let the world stand still either.
Early on, you can still see signs that to the creators, the audience AND the other characters, the Gargoyles themselves were still a wonderfully alien species. (And I don't mean that literally. Geez.) We tried to maintain the perspective of creatures out of their time. Goliath is stubborn, even dense and condescending toward Elisa, when she tries to convince him to leave the castle. But I think from his POV, his responses were perfectly natural. Xanatos was banished. The castle was theirs. The concept of ownership was sketchy for the Gargoyles at best, but if they did understand it, they understood it in the "Possession = Ownership" sense. The notion that Xanatos could still "own" the castle after an embarrassing defeat was completely ALIEN to Goliath.
Likewise, look at Fox's actions at the end of the episode. Can you imagine Fox in any later episode crudely taking a hostage? It seems like she checked her brain at the door. But it works for me because at that time, she (and we) didn't truly know what an angry gargoyle was capable of. Maybe Goliath would dismember her. Our boys got so borderline cuddly as the series progressed that I had to remind everyone just how dangerous they could be in HUNTER'S MOON. But Hunter's Moon wouldn't have worked back in Season One. Because in Season One, no one would have been shocked by Goliath's desire for Demonaesque vengeance. Maintaining that edge was always very important.
But if Fox wasn't acting her brightest here, I think Wolf was. That scene with Susie and Billy, where he pretends the Gargoyles were monsters sent by the evil ninjas, is about as smart a move as we ever see Wolf make. When you think about it, it's pretty darn clever. For him anyway. In later episodes, I think I got too big a kick out of making him dumb. I could justify it after UPGRADE. But if I got back, I think I'd give him a bit more of a mental edge.
And speaking of Wolf and Fox, how about that Pack? Their first appearance. The thing I was most struck by in viewing it here is how great they were cast. Clancy Brown, Laura San Giacomo, Matt Frewer, Cree Summer and Jim Cummings. Man, what a great ensemble. Hats off to casting and voice director Jamie Thomason. Time and again, he assembled great, great people for us.
There are a lot of little touches that make me smile. Jim Cummings "narration" during the appearance at Madison Square Gardens is priceless. We were consciously trying to do a professional wrestling meets (the hated) Power Rangers thing, and it amuses me to no end. There's that very anime shot of the Pack standing absolutely still (a held cell) while spotlights pass over them. It's very cool.
I even like that we got the notion of the Daily Tattler into the episode. That was something I wanted to expand on more. The Gargoyles never made any real attempt to keep themselves very hidden. Oh sure, they weren't holding New Olympian style press conferences, but they didn't sweat it if they were spotted. But we figured that the more of an urban myth they became, the less the majority of the population would believe in them. And once stories about Gargoyles started regularly appearing in the Tattler, people would be sure the whole thing was faked. I'm not sure we mentioned the Tattler again until Hunter's Moon, which is too bad. Though it does show how consciously Michael and I were echoing first season concerns and contrasts in that final mini-series.
Fox and Lex. Their relationship is established in that one moment when she strokes him under his chin. Even I didn't know that down the road they'd become flat-out allies thanks to Alex. Hell, back then I didn't know Alex was on the way. Didn't even know that Fox and David were an item. The characters were just beginning to teach me who they were and what they wanted.
Action-wise this thing is taut. The Pack just keeps coming and coming. The Gargs never have a chance to catch their breath. And, then, suddenly, they do. And the tables turn fiercely. And the Point of View, as well. We are ALWAYS on the side of the hunted. When it's Goliath and Lex, we get very little of the Pack. Just snatches of them attacking. The gargs struggling to stay alive. But up on that roof, we abruptly switch POV. Suddenly, we're following the Pack. Even, dare I say, sympathising with them. Not that we want them to win. But we begin to identify with them as they battle these strange creatures. I love that.
It's hard to believe, but when Frank Paur and I first saw the animation on this episode we were crushed. I look at it now and think its gorgeous. But we were so spoiled by the Awakening animation, we thought this was a debacle. Later we'd get some truly mediocre animation and learn to appreciate the good stuff more. But back then... we were idiots.
Those tv lines were my idea. I love television. I mean I really, really love it. And I hate when people attack it. I think on a percentile basis, there's more good work being done in television than any other medium. Doesn't mean there isn't a lot of crap being done. But that's true in everything. But still it's fun to poke fun. To bite the hand that's feeding you every once in awhile. One of the trio says: "The Pack is just like us. They fight evil. And they do it on television." (I just saw the episode half an hour ago, and I can't be sure who said it. That's pathetic.) Of course, whoever said that didn't mean to say that the Gargoyles were also on television. That was an afterthought. But it's a bit of an in-joke for us and our audience, because the Gargoyles are just like the Pack. I just like to think they had a better show.
But my favorite is Hudson's line: "Maybe we shouldn't believe everything we see on the television..." A lesson we all should live by.
And finally, "Thrill" contained the first of what would soon be a Gargoyles Trademark. The Xanatos Tag. Our favorite manipulator snatching partial victory from seemingly overwhelming defeat. Again, something vaguely revolutionary for a cartoon. You gotta love the guy.
If Goliath and Elisa were to become mates, what do you think the other gargoyles'(especially Demona's)reaction would be?
I think everyone in the immediate clan would react very positively at this point.
As for Demona... well how do ya think she'd react? (Trust me, she's not sending china.)
I noticed recently that there are several recurring names in the series. For instance, Peter Maza and Petros Xanatos have similar first names (both mean "rock", right?). Also, Thailog's chosen first name during "Sanctuary" was Alexander, the same name the Xanatos' named their baby. If you want to go a little on a limb, their's even a name connection between Alex, the baby, and Lexington, or Lex, the gargoyle. Is all this coincedental, planned, or a fluke?
And if it was planned, what were the reasons for it?
The Peter/Petros thing was something that I planned that wound up being a fluke. Petros was my original name for Petros, but somehow in the script for "VOWS" the writer chose another name. (My memory on this is very vague.) At the recording session, someone had an objection to the new name. (It wasn't me.) But since there was a desire to switch, I piped up with Petros again.
The Alexanders was semi-planned. That is when it came time for Thailog to choose a name, I couldn't think of anything else he would choose besides Alexander. Same for Fox & David. Nothing else worked. (Nothing I could think of anyway.) Obviously, I was aware that both Thailog and the Xanatos' were choosing the same name. But I liked that. Made perfect sense to me, since Xanatos programmed Thailog.
As for the Lex/Alex thing, well that is more of a fluke. Not that I was unaware of it. But it just worked out that way.
More random observations...
Jogger's first appearance.
Cyberbiotics first true appearance.
Bruno (aka the Commando Leader) gets a bit of character development. I remember when voice director Jamie Thomason asked Jeff Bennett to do that voice. Jeff asked what Jamie wanted and Jamie said something like: "Do a George C. Scott/Patton thing." I don't know if that's what I'm hearing, but I like the end result.
We see Vinnie for the second time. Of course, we still didn't know that was Vinnie yet. His nose is HUGE. He must have had a little work done between this show and Metamorphosis. (Not the smartest way to spend money when you're out of work.) One of my favorite bits in "Vendettas" is the reveal of how exactly Vinnie was knocked out by Goliath aboard the airship. In Awakening IV, Goliath lifts Vinnie out of the shot. We hear a loud <SMACK> and Vinnie falls unconscious. The implication being that G knocked him out. But in Vendettas, Cary and I showed what was previously off-screen. You see that the <SMACK> came from G hitting his fist against the wall. Vinnie wasn't knocked out. He fainted.
Elisa looks damn good with her jacket off. I wish we had had more opportunities for costume changes with her. They always work so well.
I always thought that the tranq the Commandos used on Goliath in parts III and IV was pretty unreliable. It seems to knock him down. Then he's up again. Then he's staggering. All very story convenient. You could look at it as a flaw in the episodes. Or you could justify it by saying that they had never had the opportunity to test the stuff on Gargoyles before. It had strange effects.
Owen has one line in the whole episode: A very effective clearing of his throat. You gotta love a character who can be so memorable with so little.
The Commandos seem to be pretty bad shots, until you realize in episode V that killing Goliath isn't really what they're after. In my head, they were told NOT to kill him if they could effectively put a scare into him. Elisa was probably much more expendable. Bruno's discretion.
This seemed like the first episode to use the "CLAW WIPES"... but I'm not sure. A Wipe is one means of moving from one scene to another. Other methods are straight CUTS or DISSOLVES, etc. But Japan started doing these very dramatic CLAW WIPES, where a Gargoyle hand seems to be tearing the old scene away with his or her claws. It wasn't called for in early scripts, but after we had seen it a few times, we started to call it out.
Elisa puts the transmitter on a dog she calls Rover, a dog that's scrounging through garbage in the park. In the very next scene, Hudson is watching TV and a dog that could easily have been Rover as a pup is seen starring in a dogfood commercial. How the mighty have fallen.
There's a few great moments with the trio in this show. Maybe not the obvious ones. I love their exchange of dialogue to Hudson when they come back from their night on the town. We had the opportunity to really edit the dialogue with multiple overlaps and rhythms before it went to Japan. The scene really snaps. In later episodes, we wouldn't always have that luxury.
The scenelet where they fly away from the castle on their way to the Cyberbiotics Tower is also very cool. A combination of animation, editing and sound, that really gives SNAP to their departure. I love it.
Of course, the naming scene is great. Names are so addictive.
And I still like the character development in our love triangle here. Goliath doesn't trust Elisa even yet. Hasn't told her about his daytime vulnerability. And he might not have, if he hadn't been caught outside. But her loyalty and steadfastness really impresses him. I feel the connection very strongly. And I think she does too, when she asks if she can see him again later tonight. It's not just curiosity about a new life-form.
And Demona. I love that wing hug when she and Goliath are reunited. But you have to wonder about that reunion from her point of view. Yes, she's scheming here. But she must be thrilled to see him and the other gargs awake and alive. THRILLED. All those years of lonliness and now her true love is awake. But she never hesitates to prioritize her scheming. All those years of bitterness have stunted her emotions even more.
Finally, lots of people keep telling me that Elisa says "Damn" in the boathouse in at least one version of this thing. But it's not true. We never even recorded her saying Damn. Why would I? No way it would get by S&P, so why bother. Didn't even occur to me. She does grunt right before she says "Empty". And I suppose that grunt might sound a bit like the word "Damn." I mean, I don't think so, but it's the only explanation for this myth that I can come up with.
How did you decide on pairing Angela and Broadway? You guys really fooled me because it seemed before The Journey all was hinting towards a Brooklyn-Angela pairing.
We were never hinting toward Brooklyn/Angela. Quite the reverse. Gary Sperling and I made this decision together when he was working on Turf. But it just felt right. Broadway seemed the guy who was most attentive to Angela as an individual. The person most in touch with his so-called feminine side. Brooklyn was just after any chick with wings, frankly. And I think Lex pursued her because his brothers were and it seemed like the right thing to do. Only Broadway was interested in who Angela was. In my mind, he's clearly the most mature when it comes to this stuff. Brooklyn's a leader. And I love the guy, but he confuses a crush with deep abiding love. He needs a little more emotional maturity before he's ready for this "Gargoyles mate for life" thing.
Watched this with the family half an hour ago...
More random observations...
RE: Our supporting cast...
Who knew that Brendan & Margot would wind up being so important? Credit Marina Sirtis, for making Margot so gloriously bitchy.
And then there's Vinnie's first appearance on that motorcycle. Of course, no one knew Vinnie existed back then, which is thoroughly appropriate to his character.
And credit Keith David with breathing real life into Morgan the cop. Morgan didn't even have a name then. He was just a place holder, someone for Elisa to respond to. But Keith made me interested in him.
Little things still bug me. Xanatos' floating ponytail in the scene where he and Elisa first meet.
In the Kitchen, the Freezer door was supposed to have one of those easy to open latches on the inside. The irony being that Broadway could easily extricate himself, if he just knew how to operate the latch (or even what it was). Something a kid could do, assuming the kid was born in the 20th century. But BW has to bust down the door.
In the original script and the recording of that script, it's Brooklyn who says "So many wonders..." and it's Broadway who says "Goliath said not to let anybody see us." But in those early days, lots of people in L.A. and in Tokyo kept confusing their names (and Bronx's) so the animation came back as you see it. And it was easier to re-record the voices then to reanimate. (Or am I getting all this totally backwards? I just saw the show again half an hour ago, and already, I'm confused.)
(CAVEAT: In all these little things, I'll probably be pointing out animation errors here and there. But please understand, I think most of the animation we got, particularly from Walt Disney TV Animation - Japan, was brilliant. I think those guys did a great job and don't get enough credit. But anecdotes generally come out of when things go wrong, not when they go right, so it may seem like I'm talking about mistakes more often than not. Sorry, in advance to Roy Sato or anyone else who might take offense.)
When Elisa is first being checked out by the Trio, there was a scene in the original animation where Brooklyn seems inordinantly interested in her behind. We had to call a retake, cuz the guy was practically drooling. I wonder if that's where I got the idea that Brooklyn would fall for anyone in a skirt (or with a tail).
Also, after Goliath saves Elisa from falling off the building we have a point of view shot from her. It begins at Goliath's feet and pans up to his face, as she takes him in. In the original animation, the pan started at his head and panned down. That seemed less effective, so we had our editors reverse the pan, without calling for a retake.
At the end of Act Two, the door slides open revealing Demona in silhouette, clearly plotting something with Xanatos. That always really bugged me. I didn't want to give away that she was alive in this episode. I didn't want to know who Xanatos was talking to. How did you guys react to this? Did that spill everything? Did any of you not know that Demona was alive? Did any of you, by this point, not know that she and Xanatos were the bad guys?
Elisa says something like "This is where Dracula shows up." when she's walking through the corridors of the castle. If you take that literally (and you might as well), then you gotta figure that someday, Dracula will be roaming that very hallway.
Elisa loses the first in her series of guns, when Goliath crushes it near the end of Act One.
Goliath tells a joke: "And please, don't fall off the building this time." Goliath tells a joke. Can you believe it? It wasn't bad either. We should have let him tell jokes more often.
Elisa's surprise that Goliath can talk is indicative of what I thought a 20th (or 21st) century initial response to the gargs would be. That's why Goliath Chronicles' trial episode bugged me so much. I don't think humans would take for granted sentience. And I think most humans, those less open than Elisa, wouldn't even buy talking as enough evidence that the gargs weren't just beasts. (Cf. Margot Yale.)
Goliath is a pretty begruding hero. That's somewhat unique for cartoons. Elisa asks if there are more gargs, and Goliath responds: "Barely." He cuts her very little slack. But already you can see their relationship developing. I still think Hudson's expression after Goliath sweeps Elisa up into his arms is just priceless.
In that same scene, Hudson gets named for the river. I love that scene, as I loved the scene where Tom, Brook and Lex are talking about names. Of course, the desire not to name most of the gargoyles until we got to NYC '94, was mostly pragmatic. It allowed us to use those fun, cool NY names for most of the characters. But once we came up with the rationale for it, and once I managed to explain it to everyone, I really fell in love with the concept. Hudson's lament, here, that humans don't think something is real until they've put there stamp on it, is, to me at least, so damn true. And Elisa's response is so feeble and circular. "Things need names." Pathetic. But I'm no different. <SIGH> I'm such a human. But I aspire to gargoylosity. Anyway, after Hudson points to the river, and Elisa basically tricks him into taking that name, she used to have a line, as I may have mentioned before, where she said (under her breath) "Good thing we weren't facing Queens" -- implication being that Hudson nearly ended up being called Queen, I guess. It was always funny, but S&P didn't care for it, and I couldn't really defend it. So out it went. We tried another version, where she just says, "Good thing we weren't facing East." But it didn't play. So out it went too.
The thing that struck me most, however, was the almost thorough lack of action in this episode. After all that Viking stuff in Part One, and Vikings and a full act of commandos in Part Two, Part Three is a mood and character piece. Sure Elisa falls off a building, but that was a problem easily solved. Until the commandos' Central Park attack in the last seconds of Act Three, nothing else happens that could genuinely qualify as action. That was mostly a result of what was once a four-parter being turned into a five-parter. The reason we made that change is because Michael Reaves wrote a brillaint four-part script. It was amazing. But it was WAY too long. I was faced with either having to make drastic cuts (as I would later have to do in Avalon and Hunter's Moon) or expand it. Fortunately, Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston saw the wisdom of expansion. For one thing, it would save us money. But also, it made sense because we could run the five parts across a whole week of the Disney Afternoon like a mini-series special event. It wouldn't require us to re-program one day of that first week. So we were all agreed, the four parter would become a five parter.
But that meant adding act breaks, and redividing everything. The episode that most benefited was Part One. In the orignal version, Part One covered all of what is currently part one, plus the first act of what's currently part two, i.e. ALL the Scotland stuff. The episode ended with Goliath's "suicide". A great ending, but we would have obviously had to cut a TON out of the flashback. This way we were able to expand into part two and preserve almost all of the story.
So Part Three winds up being nearly action-free. And by the way, I love that. I still think the episode works great, and it proved to me that the charcters themselves could really hold the audience's attention. (I'm such a proud papa. Unashamedly so. It must be pretty obnoxious.) I wish we had always had the luxury to be so... well, luxurious. To expand and play character. But generally a half-hour format makes it tough. I'm very sick of writing half hours, actually. But the powers that be in Animation believe that kids can't or won't sit through an hour long show.
As usual, I welcome posts here responding to this episode. Both your original reaction to seeing it for the first time, and your current reaction if you've seen it again recently.
Watched the episode again last night.
My two year old son is fascinated with Tom. And misses him in the second act after he's gone. Misses him in other episodes too. Kinda puts the lie to the strongly held belief I've always had that contrary to Network Executive Dogma, kids don't need animated shows to be about kids. Of course, my son is just two. My five year old has no problem with their being no "little girl" in the show.
Goliath says "What sorcery is this?" for the first time. We wound up using it over and over in the series, til it became something of an in-joke. But the truth is, we could never come up with a better line that said the same thing.
Goliath's "suicide" at the end of Act One, is still one of the most startling things I've ever seen in a cartoon. That was Gary Krisel's idea (my boss Bruce Cranston's boss). And I've always admired him for it. It's also the reminder I use to keep me humble when I'm listening to notes from the higher ups. Michael Reaves and I were just going to have the Magus offer to cast his spell on Goliath as something of a consolation prize. "Best I can do" kinda thing.
Love that Chernabog moment where Goliath says "I've been denied everything, even my revenge!" Man, Keith David is great.
The way it's edited you'd never know the problem the last fight in the Viking's camp caused me vis-a-vis Broadway. As you may recall from Part One, during the Viking's initial attack, Broadway stopped for a snack, and then opportunistically used the turkey leg to bonk a Viking. A nice little comedic beat. Well, in Part Two, we wanted to contrast that by having Broadway land in front of the roasting spit by the fire -- so that the audience again thinks he's just thinking about his stomach. But that after the massacre, the much more serious Broadway immediatlely starts using it as a weapon. That's pretty much what you see. But that's not what we received in Animation. What we got was a virtual replay of the scene from Part One. Broadway lands with a big grin and starts to eat. Then he gets attacked and uses the spit as a weapon. It took judicious editing to keep Broadway from feeling too one-dimensional. And even then as the series progressed, we started to downplay Broadway's appetite (another good Gary Krisel suggestion). We brought it up again in Hunter's Moon, Part Three to show how far the character had come. Yeah, great kitchen, but an even better library. That kind of thing.
We had a similar problem with Hudson's sword. We were supposed to make a big deal of him using it for the first time in the battle at the Viking camp. But some of the animation in both Parts One and Part Two showed him using the sword and/or having it by his side before that. That's what retakes are for, I guess.
Xanatos' first appearance... I'm really curious to know how many people, seeing this for the first time knew that Xanatos was the bad guy. I thought it was a little too obvious myself. There's a look he gives Goliath when he's taking the gargs' questions in the Great Hall that I thought absolutely tipped his hand to the audience. But we did try to create a guy who looked like he should be the hero of the show. Handsome athletic Bruce Wayne type up against scary monsters. And Jonathan Frakes is terrific.
(There was a while when Gary Krisel thought maybe we should have Xanatos -- or another rich guy, a pre-Renard if you will -- actually be the gargoyles modern benefactor. I'm glad that's one bit of advice I didn't take from Gary.)
We also get the first look at Owen. Jeff Bennett. Man. What a great cast we had. Wasn't Owen just fascinating from moment one? I didn't know he was Puck way back then, but I sure did know there was a story behind him.
Love that moment when they all Shatter out of stone near the top of Act Two. The sky spinning behind Goliath. The rotating camera for the others. Bronx leaning into the foreground. Still gives me a little thrill. Don't disappoint me Xanatos said. Well, it worked for me.
The first time we got the animation back on that sequence, their stone skins didn't really EXPLODE off them. In fact the first version of the footage had no stone at all. Those of you who have been to the GATHERING have seen that footage. We really had to push to make that concept of them exploding to life every night play visually.
There's an intentional this-ain't-Batman moment during the fight with the Commandos. Goliath gets tossed off the building. He's falling and he grabs for a flagpole, just like Batman would. But Goliath is so heavy, he rips the flagpole right off the building, and he has to use his claws to save himself. Back in those days, everyone was terrified that GARGOYLES was going to be perceived as a BATMAN rip-off. I actually had to write up a memo for the Marketing Department, listing all the significant ways the shows were different. This flagpole bit was our (me, Frank, Michael's) conscious reaction to the constant comparisons.
There's a moment during the fight where Goliath is facing a Commando, and from off-stage Xanatos rescues Goliath by firing his laser at the wall and dumping the masonry on the commando. But that scene gave us nightmares, because it looked like the laser beam was coming from Goliath's eyes. Like he was Cyclops of the X-Men. This made us nervous, because the concept was so new, we were afraid that the audience would think that maybe Gargoyles have all sorts of "cool" super-powers like that.
One line got cut from Part One that would have helped a bit in understanding Lex's character. In Part One, during the initial battle with the Vikings, we had Lex investigating a catapult, fascinated with how it works. That little scenelet got cut from the script for time. But I still miss it.
Anyway, please feel free to post your own responses here on the episode. Both how you felt when you first saw it, and what strikes you now looking at it again.
My kids and I have started watching the 66 chapters of Gargoyles from start to finish, so I thought I'd give a shot at rambling on each episode as we view them.
So starting at the beginning...
In the original script, there was a bit that came right after Princess Katharine reprimands the Captain for inviting the Gargoyles into the Great Hall. She says something to the effect of: "To allow beasts in the dining hall..." Right then, we were supposed to cut to a shot of one of those hounds that you can see milling about in the initial establing shot. The hound was supposed to grab a chunk of meat off of one of the nobles' plates. This would further establish Katharine's hypocracy, but also embarrass her further, lending believability to the things she says and does thereafter. I recall that the scenelet got animated, but not well. Frank refused to include it in the final cut. He may have been right, given what we had to work with. But I still miss the moment I envisioned in my head.
Katharine and the Magus are so nasty in this episode. Boy, did they go through some changes.
I'm also struck by just how much the Trio grew from this first appearance. They're kinda medieval ninja turtles here. But they show potential. I still love their exchange with Tom as he tries to get names out of them and they are baffled as to why names would be important.
I do wish we could have seen more Gargoyles flying around. (It really would have been nice to catch a glimpse of the Coldtrio, but frankly, they hadn't been designed yet. We knew they were coming, but we didn't have time to design them before they were necessary.) But it would have been great to see more beasts, more females. More young and old. But I guess we did all right.
The cliffhangers are interesting too. In both, the threat is the Gargoyles themselves. Princess Katharine says something nasty about gargoyles, just as Goliath enters the Hall. He growls, clearly having heard her statement. And we go to commercial... I could never have gotten away with that by even episode 2. But this early on, we didn't know the gargs well enough to know how they'd react. Clearly they had our sympathy. But would Goliath go berserk? Obviously, not. But that was the tension in that beat. Same thing happens between Acts II & III. The threat seems to be from Brooklyn, Lex and Bronx. Of course, they're bluffing. Annoyed with the humans, they are simply trying to put a scare into them. But the audience doesn't know that yet, so I can get away with the second cliffhanger being a Garg threat as well. Of course, by the end of the episode, we know just how noble they are. And that's a great cliffhanger I think. Goliath roaring to the heavens filled with grief over the death of his "Angel of the Night". 'SCool. (But how many of you really thought she was dead?)
There are also moments that are fairly mundane to us now. Elisa pulling up in her car. Goliath first breaking out of stone. Demona stepping out of the shadows. I'd be curious how all those moments made you guys feel the very first time you saw them, particularly those of you for whom this was in fact the first episode you ever saw.
I invite you to post your comments here on Awakening, Part One.
in 2158 would any members of the trio still be alive?
You just want me to give away every little secret don't you.
Well, I'm NOT going to answer this question positively or negatively except to say that a TimeDancing Brooklyn would be there.
In the gargoyles bible for the first season you had made mention of the existence of a 'very wise man' who first made an alliance with gargoyles building his castle of a gargoyle rookery and who ushered in the golden age of gargoyle-human relations...
Is this still how you picture it happening? The existence of a specific 'very wise man' was intriguing to me - is he just a generic figure, or someone whose name we would recognize? (I have my own idea on the subject ofcourse but I refrain from suggesting it in case it's considered a story-idea)
I was being generic in the bible on purpose to simplify things. Honestly, I don't think I ever really thought there was just one person who did that. The world was too big a place and there wasn't any internet back then to facilitate communication. So that "wise man" was a place holder in my mind for a number of intelligent humans and gargoyles who made multiple alliances over multiple centuries in multiple places.
One such alliance of "wise men" was the alliance formed between Hudson and Malcolm, which was brokered by Robbie.
Another alliance was that formed between Xanatos and Demona, brokered by Owen, with a little help from Brooklyn, Mary and Finella behind the scenes.
when demona told brooklyn about what she did during the centurys what did she tell him,did she tell him about macbeth?
In "Temptation"? No. I think people have the notion that Demona and Brooklyn had a lot going on off-screen and/or between scenes of that episode. (Again, Christine, I've heard the rumors.) But it ain't true in the cannon. What you saw was largely what took place.
Hello! This is my first time asking a question, but I was alwayas very curious about gargoyle anatomy. Brooklyn in the character that puzzles me the most. I have noticed that his wings are the type that have little hands on the top of them. I have also noticed that the only other gargoyles that have this type of wing structure are female gargoyles. Why did you decide to make his wings look like that, and what purpose do the little hands serve?
It just so happens that he and Demona have the same wing-type. Angela inherited hers from her mother. Not all females have that type. Coldfire didn't for example. Neither did Una. It's not a male/female thing. It's just one of the many minor garg anitomical variations.
HELLO Greg, Its me Lexy again wondering if at this very moment, not as I write this now, but as you read it now, are you willing to tell us about Lex's mate? Just asking:) thanks bye!
"You want the truth. You can't handle the truth."
Is there anything you could tell us about Lexington´s Parents? (For example, how they looked like?)
I don't think that way. There's a whole generation of gargoyles who were Lexington's parents. With the exception of Hudson, they died in the Wyvern Massacre.
Greg,while at the Gathering, I was talking to Thom,who had this to say about Lexington:" But, I'm a virgin..."
I suppose, there has to be a celebate Gargoyle,eh?
Is this what you had in mind for the character? Or, does he get his jollies, through cyber-sex?
Personally, I don't care if he ever finds a mate...
What's the question?
Are you asking if Lex is a virgin or Thom?
Well, I've been reading over the questions and responses already posted, and they're inspiring questions of their own. I'll try to separate my posts into topics. And thanks again for doing this for us- you're keeping your series alive with the fans.
1. How did we learn that Hudson was Broadway's father? Does Hudson know this, and if so, how did he find out?
2. You didn't want to say whether the Mutates' children would be mutated themselves. Are they still *able* to have children at all?
3. Did Coldstone's son have a name?
Calling this one topic is kind of a stretch, but you squeeked by...
1. I don't know that anyone inside the world of the series cares about this detail. Hudson is one of Broadway's many Clan Fathers. For that matter, Brooklyn and Lex would feel the same way. I think fandom learned that Hudson was Broadway's biological father from me. It was just something that always seemed right to me.
2. I'm not ruling it out.
3. If you mean his biological son, that's Gabriel.
We's were wondering, my precious, if Lexington's look inspired by the Golem, from Lord of the Rings? ;)
They look alike save the tail and wings. Is it just coincidence?
Don't know. If so, I doubt it was conscious. But you'd have to ask all the artists (starting with Bob Kline and Dave Schwartz and continuing on to Kazuyoshi Takeuchi and Frank Paur). Mr. Takeuchi, by the way, is often the unsung hero of our final designs.
will Broadway ever find out that Hudson is his father? Will Hudson ever find out that Broadway is his son?
They know this already.
Oh. You mean bioligically... Why would they care about that? It's a non-issue. (You people are such humans.)
I've always wondered: Why was "Temptation" given that particular title?
Doesn't it seem self-evident?
I guess not or you wouldn't be asking, right?
Demona was tempting Brooklyn.
There are a few deeper resonances as well, but I'd just recommend viewing the episode again...
Hi again, I think it was 'OnyxStar' who said it originally but I'd like to agree by saying that you're a good man for doing this and that "Ask Greg" is definately keeping the series alive with the fans.
Anyway, the question is:
When Brooklyn returns from his Time Dancing would he still be Second-in-command for Goliath or would that position have been handed to someone else? (I mean since now Brooklyn would be older than Goliath biologically)
~The B of R
Brooklyn would still be Goliath's second. From Goliath's PoV, Brooklyn was never gone.
And Brooklyn wouldn't be THAT old. Not as old as Hudson, for example.
Does it haunt Goliath that he could kill Lexington so easily for being a traitor in FUTURE TENSE when he couldn't do the same to Demona in a similier situation?
(I know that he knows now that it was all just a Puck created illusion that he disposed of, but at the time he really thought it was Lexington.)
I'm not sure he was conscious of a desire or intent to kill. (Which is not the same as denying he had one.) Technically, I think we're talking voluntary manslaughter.
But to answer your question, I think that Goliath -- being a straightforward guy, with enough real tragedy on his plate -- would not be too inclined to dwell on actions that he was driven to by a fantasy world perversly designed to drive him to absolute despair.
How would you describe the clones personality-wise? (I know that this sounds like a volume length question but what I mean is for example Lex can be described as a techno-Geek, and Brooklyn can be described as thrill seeking second in command, etc. So if you were describing each clone in one line like that, how would you describe Brentwood, Malibu, Hollywood, Burbank, and Delilah?)
Trouble is I wouldn't describe Lex as a "techno-geek" or Brooklyn as a "thrill seeking second in command".
Must you humans name everything? It's not real to you 'til you've named it, defined it, given it limits. Does the sky need a name? Does the river?
Was it Brooklyn's constant talk in FUTURE TENSE about the Phoenix Gate and time travel that inspired you to come up with the idea of TIMEDANCER?
(I wonder because you said somewhere in the archives that you came up with Timedancer too late in the game to actually pitch it to any station.)
No. It was the pure evolution of the characters of the Trio. I saw very clearly that they were going their separate ways. Writing "The Journey" cemented the idea in my head. I believe that Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway would never find better brothers, better friends than each other, but I also saw that the days when they acted as one were gone.
I wanted to visualize this. The initial Phoenix Gate story (the one that somehow melted into "Runaways" in TGC) came first. The idea of him coming back older, mated and with kids and a beast, was a great shocking ending. But I felt it would really demonstrate what I had in my head.
The spin-off idea was of course obvious after that. I mean he was gone for forty years. What was he doing all that time? But, as you noted, by the time I came up with that, it was too late. Disney had already made me feel unwelcome.
Hybris, on my part, played a big role as well.
Hindsight, whatchagonna do?
Thanks Greg for ansering my quistions
If the Dark ages was ever made would we see alot of Hudson's rookery mates. And Goliaths and Demonas rookery sibblings and also the trio rookery sibblings. And also would some of them been some of the main chacters?
Goliath, Demona, Desdemona, Iago and Othello would all have been major characters. Along with Hudson.
The Trio would have been supporting character. I'm not saying we wouldn't have seen more of their siblings, but that age group would not have been the focus.
I'm sure we'd have met other gargoyles eventually.
1.) This has been killing me. Lexington and Broadway are bald as Gargoyles. When Puck transformed them into humans -- they had hair! Any reasons for this? (Personally, I'm rather partial to a Lex with hair, but... curious...)
2.) Lexington is noticably different from the rest of the Gargoyles (his wings being the most differing feature) and he is dwarfed by his clan members. Is he a different breed of Gargoyle? Is there such thing?
3.) Not a question, really, but I just wanted to add my voiced appreciation to all the others for bringing the universe of Gargoyles into creation. Much thanks.
Finally, I'd like to express my suprise at no matter how much we (the fans) nitpick and analyze this series, it somehow always still makes sense in the end... Kudos!
1. Behind the scenes, we wanted Lex and Broadway to resemble Thom Adcox & Bill Faggerbakke as much as possible.
Within the universe, though some gargs are bald, few human teens are. So it made sense to add hair.
Plus, I've never said that Lex and/or BW ARE bald. Maybe they shave...
2. Lex isn't a different species. He's also not fully grown yet, so he will get bigger. Though he'll never be as big as Brook or BW. Some guys are just short. Like me.
3 &tc. Thanks.
3. Would there be conflict between Samson and Brooklin similar to the conflict that was building between Brooklin and Goliath?
4. This may seem stupid, but... Is Samson the son of Broadway and Angela?
3. I don't accept the premise of your question. Or maybe I don't understand it.