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Phoenix Gate

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Anonymous writes...

1. Alot of the times in the comics when conners becomes the lizard, he always changes back because there are still trances of the formula in his system. Did the gene clenser completely remove all the lizard dna from his body, so that this isnt the case?
2.If peter had taken the gene clenser when he still worn the symbiote, would it remove both it and his powers?
3. Why was marco selected for ocks experiment first?

Greg responds...

1. The gene cleanser did remove all the lizard DNA, but unfortunately, the sample was contaminated with N'Kai DNA, so expect to see Conners transform into a Moai shortly. (How's that for obscure?!)

2. No, he'd need to go to a dry cleaner for that.

3. He wasn't. The first person selected was the Archmage. It turned him into a beach, until he used the Phoenix Gate to travel to Endor.

Of course, I would have thought all this was obvious from watching the show. I mean, dude, note the timestamp.

Response recorded on April 01, 2013

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Arlo writes...

What are the stories of how you and the other writers came up with and developed the ideas for the Phoenix Gate, the Eye of Odin, and the Grimorum Arcanorum?

If you don't have time to post the full details right now, that's okay (I'm even expecting that to be the answer). But would you consider writing a ramble on it at some point? We have rambles and outlines for nearly every episode of the series, but no background on the creative process that went into designing these three talismans. I would love to hear about everything that went into them at some point.

Greg responds...

You're taxing my now-limited memory, but I don't think there's that much to tell. And frankly, I DO think I've told it all before.

The Grimorum was part of the story development for the pilot, even the development of the original series, I suppose, since we knew there would be a spell cast upon the Gargoyles pretty much from Day One. We just ran with it from there. Tried to keep track of it and its spells, etc.

The Phoenix Gate was created as "Vows" was developed as a story. If you look here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=131 you can see how it came about. And again, we just ran with it from there.

The Eye of Odin was originally developed by the video game people. We then used a version of that as a maguffin in "The Edge" and as a magical talisman in "Eye of the Beholder" and "Eye of the Storm", etc. I've discussed all this before. Search the archives.

Response recorded on December 06, 2012

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Diana writes...

Hey Greg,

it's known, that to control the phoenix gate, one has to think of a special place and time.
Now, that the gate was released by Goliath, one question popped into my head.
Brooklyn couldn't control the gate during his Time Dancer adventures.
But could it be that his subconscious mind influenced the gate's „direction"?
Could the gate (or rather the phoenix) have probably sensed his feelings like fears, inner conflicts or wishes?
Or did the phoenix just follow its own reasons without noticing such things?

By the way … I liked the character of Brooklyn before, but it's due to the Comics (especially Clan building Vol. 2) that he became one of my ultimate favourites. ;)

Greg responds...

Mostly, the Phoenix is the Phoenix. Beyond that, we're talking SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.

Response recorded on November 15, 2012

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MacLeod writes...

Hey Greg,

I always thought that in "Future Tense" Goliath sent the Phoenix Gate to the distant past, thus closing the loop and the gate restarting its journey from scratch. Of course this was not the case, otherwise the "Timedancer" events couldn't/wouldn't have taken place. But can you at least give a hint of when did Goliath send the gate to at the end of "Future Tense"?

Greg responds...

He didn't pick a specific time or place, hoping that would prevent the Gate from landing anywhere and keeping it out of nefarious hands for eternity.

Response recorded on May 16, 2011

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Anonymous writes...

a) Who was the entity that bound the Phoenix in the Gate?
b) Why did he/she/it do it?

Greg responds...

a. "SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT."

b. "SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT."

Response recorded on May 02, 2011

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Jurgan writes...

"Xander writes...

Can you tell us who was the first (a) person, (b) being and (c) entity to figure out how to work the Phoenix Gate?
Greg responds...

Yes, I can."

Really, you can? I wouldn't think the term "first" could apply to the Phoenix Gate. And I'm not even being sarcastic (well, maybe just a little), but how can something in an infinite loop ever be said to have a beginning or end? Perhaps there's an earliest time it appeared, but odds are it was taken there by someone else, who may have taught this "earliest" person how to use it- in which case, could (s)he really be said to be the first person to have used it? I'm interested in this- do you think of there being a beginning to something like the Phoenix Gate? Or am I just reading way too much into an off-the-cuff smartass remark?

Greg responds...

Mostly, yeah, you're reading too much into it...

BUT.. haven't I already answered this? The first entity to figure out how to work the Gate was the entity that bound the Phoenix IN the Gate.

Response recorded on February 25, 2011

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Xander... frustrated writes...

WHO was the first (a) person, (b) being and (c) entity to figure out how to work the Phoenix Gate?

Greg responds...

The one who bound the Phoenix.

Response recorded on February 17, 2011

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Xander writes...

Can you tell us who was the first (a) person, (b) being and (c) entity to figure out how to work the Phoenix Gate?

Greg responds...

Yes, I can.

Response recorded on January 20, 2011

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Hello Greg,

When Xanatos travelled to tenth century Scotland in "Vows," how did he communicate with the Norman ambassador and Prince Malcolm? There was no language barrier in the episode, but English wasn't spoken in Scotland back then. I'm sure that the production reason for this was the same as in Awakening and the Avalon World Tour, but have you decided upon a within-the-Gargverse reason? I have a guess or two, but it would probably be an idea.

Thanks.

Greg responds...

The Gate adjusts for everyone.

Response recorded on January 20, 2011

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Hello again Greg,

A while ago, before I got a hold of Clan Building vol. 2, I asked you this question:

<<Following up on what Clark asked, how is it that such a powerful artifact, the Phoenix Gate, is used by such a simple incantation that even Goliath, certainly no trained sorcerer, quickly learned it? Maybe I'm conditioned by role-playing games to assume that more powerful magic will always be harder to learn than relatively weak magic, but it seems quite strange to me that the Phoenix Gate incantation, and for that matter the incantation to enter Avalon, are so quickly learned when they seem to be quite powerful spells.>>

You replied:
<<It has to do with the nature of the Gate and of Avalon. I don't want to go into too many details (particularly on the former) when we're so close to the release of the Trade.>>

Reading the vol. 2 trade paperback nicely cleared up for me why the Phoenix Gate is so easy to use and just how dangerous it is! In fact it makes me wonder whether the "incantation" is really an incantation in the usual sense... However, the other half of my question doesn't relate to the Gate, and if there was something in the trade paperback that answered my question... I missed it. Now that the three trades have been out for a while and the Phoenix Gate's nature has been (partially) revealed, I hope that you are in the mood to answer the other half of my question:

What is the reason that the Avalon incantation used by the Magus and Tom, seemingly a quite powerful spell, is so easy to use and to learn? Angela and Goliath seemed to pick it up rather easily.

Thanks and have a nice day.

Greg responds...

I feel I've pretty much answered this. Reread everything above. All the clues are there. And if the answer isn't clear -- well, then good. ;)

Response recorded on September 09, 2010

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Todd Jensen writes...

One of the big changes you made from canon-in-training to canon, in "Clan-Building", was having the Phoenix rather than the Phoenix Gate be the cause of Brooklyn's timedancing. I thought about it recently, and think that it was a good change.

Aside from it providing a good explanation for why it took so long for Brooklyn to get back (it would probably have seem far-fetched if each time the Phoenix Gate appeared during those forty years, he always failed to grab it before it disappeared again), I think it added something to his journey. While we don't know exactly what the Phoenix is as yet, or what its agenda is, the way it was depicted (and Brooklyn's own comments) made it clear that it deliberately took Brooklyn to Scotland in 997, that this was not just some accidental fluke, that the Phoenix has a purpose and intentions like those of any sentient being. Brooklyn isn't being battened about the time-stream by an out of control magical talisman, but is being sent places to fulfill a mission, like Goliath and his companions on the Avalon World Tour. His adventures up and down history, past and future, are the product of a plan, not just the whims of chance. I think it made for a much better story.

Greg responds...

Thanks.

Response recorded on March 12, 2010

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M. writes...

Related to "Future Tense":
When/How did Puck find out about Goliath having the Phoenix Gate. I don't recall Puck ever knowing this before.

Greg responds...

Puck would have found out from Owen, who would have found out from David.

Response recorded on January 25, 2010

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

==== SPOILERS!!!!!=========SPOILERS!!!!!=========SPOILERS!!!!!=======
I have more questions, inspired by the Timedancer arc in the trade paperback. I hope you are in the mood to answer some fan questions in between the con-journals.

I am quite curious now about what the Phoenix Gate actually is.
1. The Weird Sisters said that "The Eye and the Gate were forged on Avalon..." so is the Phoenix Gate Third Race magic?
2. Is the phoenix itself an actual living being?
3. If the phoenix is an actual living being, what kind of life-form is it? (Other than being a phoenix.)

Thanks again for answering our questions. I'm planning on reading Brooklyn's adventures again in between watching Avalon and City of Stone.
==== SPOILERS!!!!!=========SPOILERS!!!!!=========SPOILERS!!!!!=======

Greg responds...

1. It's more complex than that.

2. Depends on how you define "living being".

3. It is.

Response recorded on January 22, 2010

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Lauren writes...

Hey, I was just curious as to the exact incantation and the proper spelling of it for the Phoenix Gate, I've seen many different versions and I just want to know which is the true one. I've scoured the archives and I've seen nothing on that specific topic and I apologize if I missed it. Thanks so much!

Greg responds...

Deslagrate muri tempe et intervalia.

(I'm kinda amazed I remember that.)

Response recorded on December 03, 2009

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Geoff writes...

Did all the foreign people & gargoyles in "The Green" & "Bushido" that got to speak know how to speak English or are Goliath, Angela, & Elisa for some reason trilingual? (It just piqued my curiosity that you couldn't really have everyone speak English without some explanation for dubbing purposes.)

This also kinda raises a question on why the Emir read the scroll to capture Anubis in English instead of Arabic. (Unless the scroll weren't written in Arabic. Was it?)

Greg responds...

There are two ways to interpret things. One is that the Gate compensated, and Elisa, Goliath and Angela were magically adjusted to the local lingua without them even being aware of the change. It's also possible that the folks at the other end were speaking English.

Response recorded on November 10, 2009

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Following up on what Clark asked, how is that such a powerful artifact, the Phoenix Gate, is used by such a simple incantation that even Goliath, certainly no trained sorcerer, quickly learned it? Maybe I'm conditioned by role-playing games to assume that more powerful magic will always be harder to learn than the weak magic, but it seems quite strange to me that the Phoenix Gate incantation, and for that matter the incantation to enter Avalon, are so easily learned when they seem to be quite powerful spells.

Greg responds...

It has to do with the nature of the Gate and of Avalon. I don't want to go into too many details (particularly on the former) when we're so close to the release of the Trade.

Response recorded on July 02, 2009

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JANUARY 23

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

January 23rd...

1996
The travelers immediately depart Avalon again, landing in London, where they meet Leo and Una, who remember Goliath from 1940 and blame him for the death of Griff. Goliath is mystified, and uses the Phoenix Gate to travel back in time to 1940, in an attempt to learn the truth and save Griff. He and Griff return to 1996, reuniting Griff with Leo and Una.


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JANUARY 1

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

January 1st...

1996
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.


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DECEMBER 30

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

December 30th...

1995
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.


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DECEMBER 29

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

December 29th...

1995
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to steal the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate from the Archmage. They fail. Meanwhile, Elisa Maza and the Magus succeed in waking the Sleeping King, Arthur Pendragon.


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DECEMBER 5

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

December 5th...

1995
The two Archmages reunite outside Avalon with the Weird Sisters, who have brought Demona, Macbeth, the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and The Grimorum Arcanorum. The three talismans are given to the "younger" of the two Archmages, and he is transformed into a double of his future self. They enter Avalon and prepare to attack its inhabitants.


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NOVEMBER 13

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 13th...

1994
Elisa Maza uses the spell from the Grimorum Arcanorum to -- for all intents and purposes -- free Goliath's mind.

1995
At dawn, after a long night on duty, Elisa follows Macbeth and a human Demona up to the Clock Tower. They knock her out and steal Coldstone, in order to distract the clan from realizing that they've also stolen the Eye of Odin, the Grimorum and the Phoenix Gate. At sundown, Demona transforms back into a gargoyle and reawakens Coldstone with the evil Iago personality in control. Meanwhile, Elisa fills in the gargoyles, who sneak into Macbeth's mansion to recover Coldstone - only to be betrayed and captured. Meanwhile, Tony Dracon is released on bail and begins tightening his grip on the protection racket in Manhattan.

1996
5:40am EST - [withheld]

12:32pm EST - [withheld]

12:33pm EST - [withheld]

6:46pm EST - [withheld]

6:47pm EST - [withheld]

6:51pm EST - [withheld]

6:52pm EST - [withheld]

6:53pm EST - [withheld]


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lobo writes...

why could't you hav brooklyn sweapt away by the Phoenix Gate as soon as Goliath tossed it thru the time stream

Greg responds...

Didn't happen that way.

Response recorded on November 12, 2007

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NOVEMBER 6

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 5th...

1994
Owen tells Xanatos the results of his Gargoyles vs. The Pack experiment. With Fox and Wolf under arrest, The Pack television series is quickly cancelled. Dingo flees to Europe.

1995
Fox arrives at the Eyrie with Xanatos' father, Petros. That night, Goliath decides to attend the wedding. He brings his half of the Phoenix Gate along. Fox and David are married. Demona tricks Goliath into giving her his half of the Gate. She then uses it to travel back in time to the year 975. Goliath, David, Fox and Petros Xanatos go too. Seconds later, they return, having fulfilled their roles in the time-stream. That same night, Thailog, who had intentionally been kept hidden from Goliath, initiates his plan to steal $20 million from Xanatos.

1996
5:32am EST - [withheld]

6:00am EST - [withheld]


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NOVEMBER 1

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 1st...

975
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.

1975
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.

1995
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.

1996
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.