Greg Bishansky writes...

For the GargWiki's timeline, I was wondering if you would please share the dates and descriptions from your timeline of the events of "Bad Guys"?

Thanks!

Todd Jensen writes...

I think that this is just a coincidence, but I decided I should mention it to you.

I was rereading Chapters Three and Four of "Bad Guys" today, because of their link to New Year's Eve, and noticed that the captions stated that the Eastcheap Island adventure took place five days after the confrontation with Sevarius. We know that the Sevarius adventure was on New Year's Eve, so the encounter with Falstaff must have taken place on January 5. And January 5 is Twelfth Night - a holiday after which one of Shakespeare's comedies was named.

I was amazed and impressed by that revelation, but I assumed that it must be a coincidence; the Eastcheap adventure draws on Shakespeare, of course, but on Falstaff rather than on "Twelfth Night". Still, when I mentioned it in the comment room, Matt suggested that I share it with you, so I did.

Meg writes...

-First of all, I have to say, I think if one issue of the Bad Guys mini had to be drawn by a fill-in artist, this was the right issue for it. I really like Karine Charlebois' stuff, but her pencils tend to be more technically perfect and "cleaner" than Chris Jones', and I think his darker, grittier look suited this particular issue very well, especially in the crypt scenes.
-Man, Hunter has some serious gymnastics skills. She's got to be on par with some of the Bat family over in DC.
-I love how Yama speaks so formally. It suits his character very well, I think, lends him a certain appropriate dignity.
-Oh, Dingo. You so TOTALLY have the hots for Hunter already. Don't even try to deny it. ;) Matrix shows some serious respect for Hunter, too. I'm confused, though-I can't decide if Hunter just didn't show up to training that particular day or if she's been absent for the whole month. They make it SOUND like she's been absent the whole month, but if they're training as a team that makes no sense, and it begs the question of what SHE'S been up to....
-When you see how Charles Canmore died plus the Canmore children's encounter with Demona in the catacombs, you can suddenly understand much better their obsession with her.
-On that note, I find the dynamics of the Canmore siblings very interesting. After the second issue, I wondered to myself if it wasn't that Jason fancied himself the leader, Jon was perpetually caught up in his personal self-important angst, and Robyn was the one who ACTUALLY got stuff done. Robyn certainly seems to be the heart of the sibling team, both in the past and present. Interestingly, Jason makes it sound as though the siblings didn't always act as team, as though sometimes they went their separate ways and did their own thing. I wonder if that'll be explored in the future, and whether it ever caused tension within the siblings (knowing Jason and Jon, I'm sure it did). As far as the conversation with Jon goes, the lines about Canmore money intrigue me. I want to know where that money comes from, who controls it, and whether they have any other surviving family members.
Robyn is very different with Jason and Jon. With Jason, she's strong and silent and lets him talk out his frustrations, but with Jon, she's super talkative and confrontational. Speaks volumes about her relationships with both, but actually, I find the Jason and Robyn dynamic absolutely fascinating. Jon and Robyn are more eh, but Jason and Robyn seem so COMPLICATED. He's so angry, but not, as he's rehabbing, and she won't give him anything in a clear sign she doesn't totally TRUST him; they obviously don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things but they also obviously love each other, whereas Jason seems to care about Jon more because he HAS to. Robyn, on the other hand, clearly loves Jon a lot. And yet they are all in some ways emotionally detached from each other; I guess growing up emotionally damaged and knowing any one of you could die at any time does that to you.
-Love how Robyn is so nonchalant about blowing the police station up, even as we know she's thinking about it. Girl has some awesome self-control.
-I have some strong suspicions about who owns Bushido Concepts.
-Dingo is no lightweight, that's for sure.
-Jon is really, truly gone when Robyn shuts the door behind her. Forget Hunter's Moon III; Jon and Robyn are done and Jon has passed irrevocably the point of redemption right here when he brushes her off as inconsequential. Boy, do Jon and Demona deserve each other.
-Yama and Hunter make a great team. But I do wonder if Dingo and Matrix actually left early because they got bored, or if something more is afoot here....

BAD GUYS is definitely heating up, and I LOVED the backstory on the Canmore sibs, but I'm really ready to see the "main plot" develop, after three issues. Still, a really solid issue with tons of good nuggets of information. Can't wait for #4!

dph writes...

My Review of Bad Guys Issue #3
I loved seeing the battle continue in the present and am looking forward to learning how we got to that point. Matrix attaching himself to Dingo is always interesting.

Then, we flash back to two weeks ago in Paris, where the team has been training for a month. Dingo's right, the team wasn't exactly slackers, but on the other hand, I have to wonder how much dependency Dingo had placed on Matrix in battle. I appreciate the use of the different font for Matrix's speech. It seems appropriate in its own way. It's interesting to see the depth of emotion in the memory of Hunter. Despite being black & white, I clearly see and feel the emotions in the expressions of the Canmore children following the defeat of their father. Seeing them head into the catacombs after Demona makes sense and I am looking forward to seeing how that confrontation ended. It's nice to see that Dingo has done his homework and learned that he's not the only one who has to be careful in New York, New York. The team landing on top of a hotel is again laying more pipework for how connected Hunter's boss really is. It's nice to see the briefing on Sevarius and confirmation on Sevarius's activities. I'm beginning to suspect that Hunter's boss is no ordinary person. All the info that Hunter has repeated from her boss leads me to the conclusion that the boss belongs to the one of the most exclusive groups on the entire planet. I confess that I never really thought Sevarius raising capital to achieve some end. It's nice to see what the team is doing on their time off. That Robyn Canmore could get inside a prison without anyone going after her says a lot about her boss. One would think all the staff around Jason would have committed to memory the face of his siblings for future purposes. I appreciate the humor in the names of the player in hockey game, even though only one name caught my eye right away. That both Jason and Robyn recognized Jon right away makes me wonder how Jon Canmore is going to stay out of jail. Robyn's confrontation with Jon was interesting and makes me wonder if she's ever going to report Jon Castaway's little secret to her boss. I'm a little surprised to see that Dingo and Matrix left early to go after Sevarius on their own. I wonder if Robyn Canmore will be able to see that what she encountered isn't a gargoyle but a mutate.

Greg Bishansky writes...

For GargWiki purposes, what are the dates of the events of Bad Guys #1 and #2?

KingCobra_582 writes...

Gargoyles: Bad Guys #3

**SPOILERS**

Like last time, I'll just keep my review simple and to the point. There were so many good things (beside the fact that it came out so soon after #2 did) about it.

It starts off like the last 2 issues did. A present day (well, if present day was still 1996) battle that jumps back into flashback mode. This time, it's Robyn's turn, and she does it well. Never thought I'd say this, but her presence alone made this a great issue.

Great way to start the next bit of action. Go back REALLY far, to 1980 and in Paris. Having seen Hunter's Moon Part 3 too many times to count, I knew what was coming, but thanks for adding more to it. I was in suspense when young Robyn and Jon encounters Demona.

For some reason, Matrix just being a puddle on his hotel bed cracked me up. I dunno why.

I loved the interaction between the Canmore siblings, especially between Robyn and Jason. That line about Jason trying to work his 'ass off'. Hell, I never would've expected THAT to get Disney's approval. Nice little surprise.

And while I'm thinking about it, nice little touches with the 'hockey players' (Bader, Spiner, Bennett, Belushi, Tagawa, Devane, Cummings, Cumming, and Cleverdon) there as well. Gave me a few chuckles. Very amusing.

The scene with Robyn and Jon, though, I didn't like so much. It wasn't a bad scene, and I definitely felt their bond ("If the hunter's not hunting demons... I've got no time for her.") breaking. The expression on Robyn's face spoke volumes. And the panel(s) with the closing/closed Quarrymen door? How symbolic. The problem I had with it was how short it was. Could've been longer.

I can just imagine Jon's reaction to his own sister working with a Gargoyle.

Hmmm, what does their mission have to do with Sevarius, exactly?

And, for that matter, why is Fang attacking them?

So many questions, so few answers.

Great story, good plot developments, and nice usage of flashbacks. Definitely the best BG issue yet. Can't wait for issue #4.

End review.

See you at the Gathering next month.

Blaise writes...

GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS
ESTRANGED

I suppose I should get my negative points out of the way first--or rather, my one big negative point: there just weren't enough pages.
Like everyone else, I just wanted to see so much more of the Canmore siblings. What we got was good, don't get me wrong, but it just doesn't feel like enough. Oh well....

I was a little surprised that we didn't pick up the "Now" teaser with Yama being saved from his predicament (that's probably kicking off the NEXT issue), but when I saw Robyn was a focus, I knew her danger would be the new "present cliffhanger."

Back to the main story in the past. We get a cross-section glimpse of the Redemption Squad's hideout beneath the Eiffel Tower. Some pad--even comes complete with its own "danger room." I loved Matrix as a little helicopter. I also enjoyed Yama's statements about appreciating the "discipline of training" but being more interested in reclaiming honor.

Yeah, seeing Charles Canmore's mangled body in a pool of his own blood (even if from a high-angle distance shot) was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser. Actually, there were a fair amount of more "mature" elements here that would never have made it into the TV show. I mean, Robyn calls Dingo a "damn fool" and Jason says "ass" not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES inside of two pages. The edge seems a lot sharper in this series.

I'm glad we finally got to see the lost "catacombs sequence" (modified to take place after Charles's death). Kudos to Chris Jones on Robyn's "terrified" expression--the panel of her face surrounded by tumbling skulls is especially memorable.

Dingo's been doing his homework. Robyn now has a very scary (rather than scared) expression on her face in the flashback to her blowing up the Clock Tower.

"Casablanca Hotel"...okay, there's got to be some significance to this, but color me clueless.

Wow, when Robyn says "Briefing in ten," she really means "in ten." We get a little slide show about Sevarius (including a shot of Wolf the mutate). Apparently his "Fred" disguise didn't fool...whoever the hell was spying on him. More and more we're getting additional pipe laying regarding the true boss here.
Given Yama's reaction to "Bushido Concepts" I can probably guess who's head of that company (and it's nice that we finally know the name). Also, the origin of the two thylacines is explained (or at least hinted at).

It's interesting to compare and contrast the members in their various rooms. Yama's the only one (besides the absent Robyn) with his curtains open to let in the sun. I noticed he was still facing inward, as per his customs. I also noticed he removed most of his clothing, something we have not seen him do before. I believe this is because the clothes in question are actually his Redemption Squad uniform, and as such, he does not yet consider them as "his" clothes. Meanwhile Matrix is a puddle, and Dingo's watching celebrity hockey while surrounded by empty bottles (just what was he drinking--beer or root beer?).

The conversation with Jason went well. I actually like the description of the whole "ass-for-legs bargain" he made with God, as well as the parallel shots of Jason hugging Robyn in the past with Robyn hugging Jason in the present. Jason's canny enough to realize that Robyn's now working for someone, so good on him.

Mr. Greg Weisman, you are just having too darn much fun with the voice-actor names. ;-)
I especially liked the bit about Cumming (John Castaway's voice from "The Journey") being blindsided by Cleverdon (Jon's voice in "Hunter's Moon"--as well as Castaway's voice in his other two TGC appearances).

I share Robyn's surprise at her fugitive brother appearing on TV, bold as you please (and I liked the shocked looks on her and Jason's faces). Robyn actually chastises John for calling the gargoyles demons--something I found very interesting. Even stranger, though, is that John doesn't outright...well, "demonize" her for doing so. He's confrontational, yes, but he's...well, he's not the raving lunatic we got in his last two TGC appearances, that's for sure. The contrast between his adult self's determination to kill all gargoyles and his child self's plea to "forget the gargoyles" was well done. And I loved his "I'm not Jonny Canmore/I'm John Castaway now" bit. As I read this, I heard him speaking in his original Scottish voice up until this line, at which point he shifted into his Castaway voice for the remainder of the scene.

I must say, John's got some very good ears on him. I, too, can appreciate the irony of Robyn holding a conversation with a gargoyle while in the same room as John Castaway. He also seems to have a reaction to hearing Robyn referred to as "Hunter." It's sad the way he just casually disregards her at the end. The Quarrymen door closing on a picture of a young and happy Robyn and Jon is especially poignant.

"Ding-bat"? Never heard Dingo called that before. I like it. :D

You'd think Robyn would have learned that when you're searching for something underground, you do NOT split up! I do find it a little funny, though, that so far the one member of the team she seems to have the best (or at least the easiest) working relationship with is the gargoyle.

The final page where Robyn's "current" predicament with Fang echoes her past one with Demona is just cool. I don't think we've seen Hunter with that terrified of an expression on her face (her adult, masked face, anyway).

Three last notes: 1) Chris Jones did an excellent job with the art, leaving me with only a few nits (Jason's face looked a little off to me in one panel), but overall showing solid work. 2) I agree with whoever said that the cover for this one looks like it came from the desk of the Director--who apparently prefers to use "-eisman" brand legal pads. It looks like that mug shot of Robyn was taken fairly soon after the final battle of "Hunter's Moon." And 3) Demona may finally get her first line in the comic canon here, but she's always obscured in shadow. Still, it just shows what a strong presence she holds via the impression she leaves.

Having such a short wait between issues #2 and #3 has kind of spoiled me, because now I don't want to wait for issue #4.

Matt writes...

My Review For Bad Guys #3, "Estranged"...

I greatly enjoyed this issue. We really got into Hunter as a character and it was a lot of fun and very interesting. In "The Lost", we got this great broken romance between Yama and Sora, now we see what love and conflict can do between siblings. I couldn't help but think of my family as Hunter was reminiscing and encountering her own. Like the Canmore kids, I too am the product of a boy-girl-boy birth order (as is my friend Ryan who is going to attending the Gathering with me in a month or so). I can appreciate how the relationship between Jon and Robyn changed from their childhood into their adulthood as it is very much like my relationship with my sister. I don't want to get too personal with this review, but suffice to say that "Estranged", much to my surprise, got me thinking about my siblings and made me get a little sad and made me want to call them up and chat. A very poignant and touching issue. Kudos to Greg on the great writing.

- I think the cover by Greg Guler and Robby Bevard is the best Bad Guys cover to date. It seems to be the most dynamic, I guess. And the coloring is gorgeous.

- And lets not forget the main artist for this issue. Christopher Jones does a great job filling in for Karine Charlebois. I particularly liked how he drew Hunter throughout the issue, most especially during the scene with Castaway. Hunter's silent and sad stare after John tells her he has no time for her is just breathtaking. Great stuff. I hope we see Christopher's work again either in Gargoyles or in a spinoff book.

- So, on to the story itself. We start back in the future at "Robot Island". Part of me was expecting to find out what Yama's fate would be after the cliffhanger (so to speak) from last issue, but instead we go back to see what Hunter, Dingo and Matrix are up to. Hunter does some more of her crazy-fun acrobatics and takes out a 'bot only to be snatched like teammate Yama was. Guess we'll have to wait and see how they both escape now.

- But we are off for a flashback in Paris mixed in with a flash(way)back in Paris. One of the best things about the Gargoyles comics has been the leeway we've seen on certain words and visuals. This issue contains a couple creepy glimpses of Charles Canmore that probably would never have been seen in the television series. We also have Jason throwing the word "ass" around a bit, which seemed so natural and realistic and is only remarkable because such language would've never gotten on the air. One more reason I often wonder if Gargoyles is more suited for comics.

- I like the extension on the Notre Dame scene from what we saw in "Hunter's Moon". The body of their father, the journey into the Catacombs, The Demon crawling across piles of human skulls attacking children. You can feel the creepiness and understand why these kids were so traumatized into devoting their life towards hunting gargoyles.

- The mission briefing scene was great. The thing about Sevarius is that in most shows/comics he would be a useful plot device. Fun and all, sure, but just there to enable the plot. But Gargoyles makes him more than just the "mad scientist type". He is a person with his own goals and motivations and all his work for others in the series has really been to raise cash for his own schemes. As for what he is up to, again, we'll have to wait and see...

- The Celebrity Hockey bit was fun. I laughed out loud in particular at "Puck's recovered by Spiner... Bennett checks him... loose puck!" Greg sure knows how to have fun.

- There were a lot of great little things that I loved in "Estranged". Yama's impatience to restore honor. Matrix as a mini-Redemption helicopter. Demona calling the Canmore kids "little hunters". The Clocktower in mid-restoration. The mention of Bushido Concepts and the Thylacines. Dingo relaxing in his hotel room. Yama sleeping in his underwear with his clothes and weapons neatly placed aside. And of course all the neat parallels throughout the issue ending in the great cliffhanger ending with Fang and Hunter. Great stuff. Very much looking forward to "Louse".

Todd Jensen writes...

My thoughts on "Bad Guys" #3, which I bought yesterday.

First, I immediately recognized the Canmore trio's pursuit of Demona to the Parisian catacombs from the Hunter's Moon radio play at the 2001 Gathering. First Coco and Amp, now this - you definitely know how to hang on to the ideas that you weren't able to immediately use and bring them in eventually!

The catacombs flashback was well-handled - especially the way you compared and contrasted the Canmores' actions and interactions with each other in 1980 and the present. Also, Demona was truly nightmarish in those scenes.

Dingo turns the tables on Hunter when he reveals that he's discovered what *she's* wanted for in New York! (And I liked the glimpse of the clock tower being repaired.)

So Sevarius was behind those thylacines back in #1? Not that I'm surprised; I suspected that Anton would have something to do with them. After everything else that he's already done, bringing extinct animals back from the zoological graveyard, "Jurassic Park" style, would be just his kind of thing.

I also enjoyed the meetings between Robyn/Hunter and her brothers: Jason rebuilding his life, Castaway heading into the darkness. I'd especially looked forward to seeing more of Castaway, after his appearance in #3. His television commercial was well-done; he makes himself seem like a friendly, reasonable, reassuring man who just wants to help frightened people. He might be a madman, but he's a shrewd madman.

You mentioned once that the Director in "Bad Guys" was in opposition to the Illuminati; while that's still canon-in-training at the moment, there were a couple of moments in the comic that tied in with that. Hunter and Castaway both wonder about the other person's backer in exactly the same way ("I know it's not Canmore money"), and the name of the Hotel Casablanca echoes that of the Hotel Cabal.

The Celebrity Hockey scene was great! Lots of in-jokes there; among the best were "Puck's recovered by Spiner, Bennett checks him", and "Cumming is blindsided by Cleverdon!" You must have had a ball writing it.

Yama's description of Dingo being "bored" was another great moment.

And we end on a real cliffhanger (all the better because it ties in with the demons - both external and internal - in Hunter's past). Now I'm looking forward to #4 (and #9 of "Gargoyles", too).

Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Bad Guys #3
Again, my scattered thoughts instead of a review.

I was expecting to learn how Robyn was recruited, and I'm still hoping to see it in a future issue. She's understandably not telling her brothers who she works for or how they found her, but this is the first indication I've seen that she is not the ultimate moving force of the Redemption Squad -- both on the cover and within the issue. We also see a little more about her thoughts about gargoyles. She isn't reading a script the Director gave her nor working under his/her orders, when she speaks with Castaway. She doesn't think of gargoyles as demons anymore, though that does not at all mean she has no prejudice or dislike for them, or that she'd willingly work with one if the Director wasn't blackmailing her. The details of hers and Jason's change of heart, which was only vaguely shown in Hunter's Moon, is not elaborated on. I still wish to know what managed to turn around the very strong convictions and emotions they had. She and Jason do not discuss gargoyles or hunting at all.

Castaway essentially disowns her. I expected him to maybe try and convince her to join him, or something. It seems he already realizes she has abandoned the hunt against gargoyles. What a twisted and messed up man. He is deliberately pushing away the last people who care about him and can help him through hatred and fear (and secret guilt), but he is digging his own emotional hole. When he speaks of "feeling alone in a world that terrifies you" he's really talking about his own feelings.

Robyn's flashback is very dramatic and truly shows how terrifying the experience was for her. I think she must have been traumatized by this, not just from losing her father but also Demona's attack on her. Very well done.

At the end it looks like she thinks Fang is a gargoyle. And when she discusses Sevarius, there's no indication that she knows about the Labyrinth mutates. Dingo doesn't know about them, but the Director must if he's planning to recruit Fang. Or maybe Fang isn't part of the plan yet?

The hotel room scenes are nice characterizations. Matrix is just a puddle on the bed, which looks hilariously out of place, and I doubt that it actually sleeps. Yama takes off his clothes and weapons to sleep, which surprises me. I would expect that he'd consider these things his and would sleep with them. Then there's Dingo, staying up (after working out all night?) watching Celebrity Hockey, and by the empty bottles he's either drunk or hopped up on caffeine.

Jason seems to be in denial still about being paralyzed. After getting his spine completely severed, he can't possibly use his legs again.

I really love the exchange when Robyn finds out that Dingo left. He was "bored". Hehe. This I think is part of his and Robyn's difficulty getting along with each other, and possibly deliberately antagonizing each other. I see it also in the opening when she refuses to either give him orders or tell him her battle plan.

When Robyn exclaims "That's what I get for recruiting a" I wonder what the end of that sentence is. TV star? Actor? Felon? Man? Australian? Robot? Moron? Idiot? Superhero? Maybe finishing her sentence could become a contest.