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Redemption #2: The Lost

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Greg Bishansky writes...

For the GargWiki's timeline, I was wondering if you would please share the dates and descriptions from your timeline of the events of "Bad Guys"?

Thanks!

Greg responds...

I'm feeling generous, so:

Saturday, June 15th, 1996
That evening in Ishimura, the gargoyles hold a council meeting with their human neighbors. Yama is banished until his honor can be restored.

Sunday, October 27th, 1996
Robyn Canmore is arrested.

Friday, November 1st, 1996
The Director gives the Hunter Robyn Canmore a choice between staying in prison or leading an elite squad of desperadoes on dangerous missions. Robyn chooses the latter.

Tuesday, November 5th, 1996, 7:00pm AEDT
In Australia, Dingo and Matrix defeat the Tasmanian Tiger. They are then defeated by Hunter. She offers Dingo a choice between prison and charter membership in her new Redemption squad. Dingo reluctantly elects to join. Matrix chooses to sign on as well.

Friday, November 8th, 1996, 7:07pm UTC+09
Vinnie tries to find the train to Ishimura. Hunter, Dingo and Matrix coerce the gargoyle Yama into joining their team. They head for Paris.

Friday, November 8th, 1996, 9:27pm EST.
Sevarius poses as “Fred” to sneak into the Labyrinth past Al, Benny, Tasha, Claw, Shari and Thug. He reveals himself to Fang, whom he calls Fred Sykes.

December 22nd, 1996
Dingo, Matrix and Yama train in the Squad’s headquarters beneath the Eiffel Tower. Hunter walks past Notre Dame and remembers…

Wednesday, December 31st, 1996
After midnight, the Redemption Squad arrives in Manhattan to investigate Anton Sevarius, ensconsing themselves at the Casablanca Hotel. After sunrise, Robyn Canmore visits Jason Canmore at Rikers and John Castaway (a.k.a. Jon Canmore) at the Quarrymen Brownstone. John washes his hands of her. Dingo and Matrix go off on their own to pursue Sevarius before sundown. After sunset, Yama and Hunter follow them into the Labyrinth but split up. Hunter is about to be attacked by Fang. Yama rescues Hunter, but Fang shocks both unconscious and takes them to Sevarius, who has already mutated Thug, Tasha, Erin and Benny. They are rescued by Dingo and Matrix.

Thursday, January 1st, 1997
The Squad prevents Fang from releasing Sevarius’ CV-1997 virus on Times Square. Later, they discover that Sevarius has escaped and Tasha has hanged herself. Yama nearly executes Fang, but Hunter talks him out of it. Thug takes Erin and Benny back to the Labyrinth. Hunter is forced to admit Fang to the Squad.

Saturday, January 3rd, 1997
Hunter briefs Dingo, Matrix, Yama and Fang on their mission to attack an Illuminati Society stronghold.

Monday, January 5th, 1997
Dingo, Matrix, Hunter, Yama and Fang approach Eastcheap Isle, when their battle-copter Redemption is blown out of the sky. Matrix saves them. Seven robots attack. Fang abandons them. Yama destroys Robot #6 but is targeted by Robot #7. Hunter and Dingo destroy Robot #1. And, while Matrix armors up around Dingo, Hunter also destroys Robot #2 â€" but is targeted by Robot #4. Meanwhile, Fang destroys Robot #5 and then saves Yama by destroying Robot #7. Dingo/Matrix saves Hunter and destroys Robot #4. Hunter destroys Robot #3. Yama destroys the newly-arrived Robot #8 and the two Sentry Robots #9 and #10. They enter the island’s interior and battle Points, Doll, Bardolph, Quickly and Pistol. But Dingo recognizes Pistol as an associate of his former mentor John Oldcastle, now known as Falstaff, King of Thieves. Falstaff, the Illuminati’s treasurer, welcomes the squad to Eastcheap and, with the help of Fiona Canmore and Thailog, tries to convince them to change sides. The Squad plays along, but Falstaff is not fooled. A battle results in Falstaff submerging his island/ship. The squad survives, adrift. Meanwhile in Paris, the Director confers with his assistant Dolores and his superior Monsier Le Maire.

Response recorded on March 06, 2012

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Anonymous writes...

On the cover of Bad Guys; The Lost, a picture of yama is uploaded onto the screen of a "Weisex" computer. Does WEISex have anything to do with your last name, WEISman?

Greg responds...

You'd have to ask Greg Guler.

Response recorded on July 21, 2008

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Greg Bishansky writes...

For GargWiki purposes, what are the dates of the events of Bad Guys #1 and #2?

Greg responds...

Strangers: November 5th, 1996 & January 5th, 1997.

The Lost: November 8th, 1996 & January 5th, 1997.

And while we're at it...

Estranged: September 28th, 1980; December 22nd, 1996; December 31st, 1996 & January 5th, 1997

Response recorded on July 11, 2008

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Shadow Wing writes...

Okay, I just picked up Bad Guys 2 yesterday. Loved what you've done so far, and I just have a couple comments (holding back the flood for when the whole six issues are out):

1) You weren't the first person to make the Tengu-Gargoyle connection.

2) LOVED the inside joke on the post-it on the cover. Was that your idea or Guler's? Also, I could only read the second line...what did the first say?

Greg responds...

1. How do you know when I made the connection?

2. Guler's. I don't know what any of it says.

Response recorded on June 20, 2008

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dph writes...

My Review of Bad Guys #2

I really loved it. Everything, especially the cover. The story starts where the last one left off. Very interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing how their 1st mission together turns out. I didn't catch the cameo of Vinnie and the others at first. The flashback showing Yama's banishment is great.

That Yama is his own judge for when he can return to his clan speaks volumes for his character. Characters with that much integrity are as rare as diamonds and I'm thankfull you included one like that in a primary role in a spin-off.

I do hope that by the time the next gargoyles breeding season comes Yama will have found his redemption. The battle to get Yama's attention is quite good and realistic. It's great that Yama knows English. Question is does an entire clan speak English that well? It's nice to see Hunter come clean about wasting her past. (I do have a cat named Hunter. She once stole a mouse from a snake, but that's another story.) It's interesting that Matrix doesn't comprehend the problem with a gargoyle serving a gargoyles hunter. Dingo's reaction to going back to New York City is authentic, but shouldn't he realize that it's just as dangerous for Hunter to return them? In this sense, I'm glad that you haven't told the story of how Hunter was recruited as it would spoil the upcoming story.

Robyn Canmore's revelation that Dingo was recruited to get Matrix is incredible. Only a small handful of people around the world can possibly know about Matrix. Also only a small number of people around the world can possibly know about the Ishimuran clan. When I stop to consider the intersection of those two groups, I'm perplexed because it can only describe a much smaller set than those two groups. That leads me to believe whomever Hunter is working for has to be extremely well-connected and/or possessing Sherlock Holmes type of intelligence.

Back to New York, it shouldn't surprise me that Dr Sevarius was keeping tabs of his former experiments, but it did. I was wondering how Fang was going to be 'liberated' and know I see. At last, we learn Fang's real name.

Overall excellent story-telling. You keep throwing more things to consider along with answering questions. I am really looking forward to the next issue.

Greg responds...

Hopefully, by now you're looking forward to issue #4, which should be out fairly soon. (It's all done.) Issue #5 is currently being pencilled by Karine, and I'm currently scripting #6.

Response recorded on June 16, 2008

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Meg writes...

Review of BG#2:

Solid, solid issue. Overall, I can see why you said this LS is a slow boil; it's not all the way there yet, but it's definitely heating up, and in a good way. Somehow a lot more seems to HAPPEN this issue that is relevant and on-target to the series (then again, it might just be that I like Yama more than Dingo and Matrix), and it really leaves me wanting more.

In terms of the art, I'm really digging the decision to do BAD GUYS in black and white. I'm sure it was mostly a financial decision, but I think the atmosphere it brings is more appropriate to the subject matter than the atmosphere a colored comic would evoke. And Charlebois definitely seems to have found her groove here; she seems slightly more comfortable this issue, and it gives us some truly spectacular art from start to finish. The shading is also phenomenal, especially in the scene where Hunter and co. capture Yama.

Things I really liked:
-Fang's face in the first panel of page 3. It's easy to forget that he used to be a normal guy and is not, in fact, accustomed to putting his life in danger at regular intervals and fighting crazy huge robots. He looks scared, which I think gives a little insight into the character. Then him running away gives even more, but, you know. It's the little things.
-The whole Yama/Sora scene. That tugs at the heartstrings. And it's so telling when Sora says "Ask me to go with you" and Yama says "Bushido demands that I do not." He WANTS to ask her so badly; he doesn't say so, but the evasiveness of his answer gives him away. And yet he loves her too much to do that to her. And she loves him enough to know that she has to let him go it alone, or that'll be something else that'll eat at his heart. Poor them. (Also, major props to Charlebois' art in that panel--Yama's face is just tortured.) How long had they been mates when Yama was banished?
-I also love the characterization of Kai here. Stern, not really angry, just disappointed. Perfectly right.
-It'll be interesting to see how Matrix develops; he seems uberpowerful, so it'll be fun to see him in situations that test him, or where he can't just power through.
-What did Yama do between his banishment and his recruitment? Boy loves his toys, that's for sure.
-Hunter's too funny. "Want something done right..." I'm thinking she doesn't so much think highly of Dingo's skills. I do wonder how much of her "Gargoyle knowledge" is educated guesswork, although she sure seems to have a lot of knowledge of bushido. Also, I love that even when Yama has his sword on her throat she's got a gun aimed between his eyes. Now THAT is a kickass, take-no-prisoners, strong woman.
-I love Yama's snark re: the accent. But I also read him as very hopeless, not caring all that much what happens to him. And it just gets worse. He looks so crestfallen when he realizes he's being coerced; I feel for the dude. His big chance at redemption, to get back with his clan...and joining this group won't really redeem him. And yet he still has to do it. And he's too unforgiving of himself to consider forced work in exchange for protecting his clanmates penance. Dude's got STANDARDS.
-Hunter's a smart leader. I think she feels more of a kinship to Yama than Dingo, which accounts for part of it, but she handles them very differently and it's very appropriate for each character. (She handled Dingo and Matrix differently and well, too, come to think of it.) I'm starting to wonder about the dynamic of her and her siblings, who was ACTUALLY the leader and got stuff done.

Really, really looking forward to #3....

Greg responds...

Jason was the leader. Robyn got stuff done.

Response recorded on June 13, 2008

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

I finally got a hold of Bad Guys. It's great to see Yama, although I'm sad that we don't see more of the Ishimura clan. I was very much hoping we would.

Sora wants to go into exile with him, that is sweet of her. She'd rather be with him than with her clan? But he feels too ashamed to be around her.

Apparently Matrix can hovor/fly without any visible means of propulsion. I find it amusing that when it turns one arm into a gun, the gun has a handle on it, completely unnecessarily. I guess that Matrix has only seen guns that have handles, and thinks that is how they should look.

We see Vinnie in Japan, and he is trying to get to Ishimura. I wonder what Taro has hired him to do. Maybe hoping he'll join his ninja squad, or something.

Also, how does Yama suddenly gain altitude like that, since he can only glide and not fly? I'm honestly confused by this.

Yama looks pretty cool when he stands up on the skyscraper. He's really loaded himself down with weapons -- two katanas, a larger sword (a tachi?), a dagger, nunchakus, ninja stars, and another sword/dagger (a wakizashi?). Clearly he's expecting to be attacked and feels vulnerable outside the clan!

I'm impressed that the artist can show Yama's eyes glowing even in black and white. Not just the lack of irises but the light shining from them.

And his line about Robyn's accent is great! Also the look on his face as he says that, and his calling her Gaijin. All priceless.

Matrix declares that they serve Law and Order, as if that would explain everything.

Robyn tells him that she's a (former) hunter, which I didn't expect. And while she appears to have discarded her old attitudes at least partly, we do not see what her new attitude is toward gargoyles. She is still willing to threaten the Ishimura clan. Or is that what the Director ordered her to say?

Yama's reaction to that is strange. Desperation, but he doesn't look all that angry, in his face. And he agrees... but why? Just because he feels he is so desperate he has no choice? We do not see the moment when he makes this decision.

I find the square thought bubbles confusing. It is difficult to tell what is thought and what is out loud.

Surprisingly, this issue already moves away from Yama to Fang. Who has a name (and look there's the Yuppies).
Sevarius is clearly impersonating a real person who's known to the Labyrinth-dwellers... some guy named Fred. Is he impersonating Fang? But then Claw doesn't react as if he were. I'd think Claw would know what Fang used to look like.

I'm really liking the art. Yama's face is a little odd, but then he's got a difficult face to draw. The rest looks great.

It was really great to see Yama. I look forward to seeing more of him. The issue felt short but I enjoyed it. Thanks for the continuing story.

In honor of Bad Guys #2, where in Japan is Ishimura located? Which island is it on? Vinnie seems to think it is within a train ride of Tokyo, but then he could just be clueless.

Greg responds...

I honestly would have to do a bit more research before I could pin down Ishimura's fictional location.

Response recorded on June 11, 2008

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Chip writes...

Man this was so worth it.

I swear every issue that comes out just gets better and better.

Yama's characterization was fantastic, and the scene with him and Sora was absolutely beautiful. Powerful and emotional.

I've been to two gatherings and I still have yet to see the gargoyles: bad guys Leica Reel. I still hear Bruce Locke as Yama in my head and I hear Jim Cummings as both Dingo AND Matrix. (Yeah I know he's Jeff Bennett but I've not heard it)Nevertheless I expected Matrix to turn into a sphere and protect them...what I hadn't expected was his ability to FLY! I had figured he'd morph into a boat or something.

Fang/Fred Sykes was great. Oddly enough I was watching "According to Jim" the other night (which I always jokingly call "According to Fang") and Jim said that exact line: "I'm outta here, suckers". I heard it crystal clear in my head.

When Robyn first spoke to Yama I figured he was supposed of go chasing after Fang or something, but I was wrong. Instead the RS fights the robots from Seasame Street. (1,2,3,4,5,6, Seven...Seven deadly robots Mwahahaha)

Yama always reminded me of my dad. I kinda see him as my dad if had been born in the Gagoyles Universe as a Garg. My dad (who incidently had a birthday the day this came out)is obsessed with Japanese culture and especially Samurai so this was strangely fitting. Plus my dad collects Japanese weapons and Yama is armed to the teeth. (I count two katana's, a taichi, four ninja stars, two daggers, and Nunchukku)

Matrix is weird, that's all I have to say on that.

Robyn/Hunter is interesting. I get the feeling that she kind of admires gargoyles/tengu now, but she's still quite prejudiced. The stick was unnessesary, the carrot would have worked.

Dingo feels for Yama, and heck I think he genuinely likes the tengu/gargoyle. Speaking of which, I think that Dingo and Robyn are already attracted to each other. I think that that caught her off guard and so she does little things to get under his skin.

And so Sevarius comes to bust Fang out...again. What is this, the third time someone broke into the Labyrinth? Fourth...I forgot about Awakenings. Security in the Labyrinth SUCKS!

Thug: Somebody broke into the Labyrinth again.
Al: Must be Wednesday.

And the cameo's dotted about were the sprinkles on top. Vinnie, Karine's avatar Kanthara (as a human), Brendan, Margo, Shari, Claw, Benny, Greg B, Mara, and I think I'm missing someone but oh well.

Bad Guys RULES

Greg responds...

Doesn't it though?

Response recorded on June 07, 2008

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Matt writes...

My Review For Bad Guys #2, "The Lost"...

Well, let me just say. It was worth the wait. And I don't just mean the wait since "Strangers" I mean the wait since I found out at Ask Greg about Yama and Sora and the Redemption Squad. For some reason, I've always thought that the Yama/Sora relationship would be fascinating to watch, and "The Lost" didn't let me down on that note. Ugh, it tugs at my heart to watch them in this issue. They both know what must be done, and yet they are both so conflicted. Without saying the word, I see love between them. I love that Sora is willing to be banished with Yama, and I love that Yama won't let her. Who knows how long they will be apart, but I love thinking that down the road they will always be on the others mind and in the others heart.

"The Lost" is really exciting. As always there is so much going on it is hard not to just point out how I loved every little detail in my review, but I'll attempt to focus on the basics. The action is outstanding. Karine really has a knack for drawing action and Greg has a knack for writing it. It is amazing to me that the comics seem to be as dynamic and fast-paced as any TV episode of the series, if not more so in some cases. Hunter's acrobatics are exciting to watch, Matrix is, as always, very fun in his various forms and fluidity, Dingo's everyman attitude is great and Yama is just so darn cool with his nobility and warrior spirit. This is really shaping up to be a very fun bunch as a main cast.

Lots of cool little bits in this one, as well. The inner monologue stuff was very interesting, I especially enjoyed Dingo's thoughts on fighting gargoyles. The tension between Hunter and Yama is neat too. A former gargoyle hunter and a gargoyle as teammates. Makes me wonder if Hunter has ever actually killed another gargoyle. Matrix is all over the place with this one. His abilities are outright astounding. He can separate himself into numerous, fully functional entities, he can form his arm into a gun, he can float/fly/hover... With all that it is hilarious when Hunter remarks to Dingo that, "I recruited you to get to Matrix." No kidding, he/she/it may seem naive and simple at times, but he is very powerful.

Finally, the New York sequence. Fun to see a cameo by Margot, Brendan, Al, Claw and Shari (not to mention Greg B and others, guess it pays to have friends in high places), but the really fun stuff here is Sevarius. His infiltration of the Labyrinth leads to all sorts of questions. Questions I'm sure won't be answered for a few months at least. But we do get one answer to an old question, Fang's human name. Fred Sykes. And what is Sevarius's interest in Mr. Sykes? I guess thats a story for another day.

So, all in all, a fantastic issue. No errors or problems of any sort that I can see and the story and art and cover are all fantastic. Great job to everyone, I look forward to "Estranged" with great antici........ pation.

Greg responds...

How did I fall so far behind here, that I'm only reading #2 reviews now, when #3 is out...?

Response recorded on June 06, 2008

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KingCobra_582 writes...

BAD GUYS #2.

Warning for anyone who's not Greg W., is not involved with making the comic, and/or hasn't read it yet. HERE LURK SPOILERS.

Cool comic, IMO. Feeling too lazy to write out a full length review, so I'll just comment on everything I liked about it and hope it counts.

Nice opening segment. Definite parallels to the BG leica reel. At least, for those who've seen it.

Yama. There's a reason he's one of my favorite minor characters in Gargoyles, and that is because how serious he is. He's focused, driven on honor. Obsessed with honor, in fact. Good characterization on Yama's part, and I always felt he could carry a story. Which he definitely does here. Kudos.

And DAMN, the guy really loves his weapons!

Nice little bits with Dingo as well. Is that a Nightstone mug he's drinking? And his reaction to returning to Manhattan. LMAO. Priceless.

Matrix can turn his own arm into a gun. How badass. Is there ANYTHING the guy can't do?!

And, on that note, for some reason, I think Yama looks wicked, practically ramming his blade in Robin's throat like that. What did she say to tick him off that bad? Talked smack about his clan, apparently.

Nice little cameos towards the end. Nice seeing Margot (though she does annoy me) and Brendan in there. Shari too.

And speaking of cameos. Didn't see Sevarius showing up until it actually happened. Nice. And to get Fang's real name (No, I won't reveal it here) also. Nice plot twist.

Good story. I'm definitely (of course) looking forward to #3.

End my (lazily mild) attempt at a review.

Greg responds...

Glad you liked it...

Response recorded on June 06, 2008


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