Antiyonder writes...

I'm going to work on a review for The Spectacular Spider-Man episodes 1 and 2 later today. I'll probably review them in the same style I review the comics, but I have been working on some paragraph styled reviews on tv.com. So I thought I'd present some for some episodes of Gargoyles and the Kim Possible episode Big Bother and see what you think of how I do:

1. This is for the Gargoyles Series as a whole:

"A show worth watching, and owning. The current comics from Slave Labor Graphics is equally worth buying.

I probably couldn't do the series justice in my review, but I'll certainly try.

Like many, I enjoy the show for it's appealing characters and interesting stories. The show demonstrates originality in coming up with rarely used ideas or putting a spin on established cliches.

An example would be the episode "Future Tense". The episode at surface appears to be a copout as the events were a dream. When infact it serves to foreshadow future episode/comic story elements.

The show is also well balanced. While I do have a share of favorite adult cartoons, Gargoyles manages to be adult/mature without relying on adult content nonstop. It's serious without being depressing.

Here's hoping the comic will continue for a long time."

2. Possessions (This review of course predated #6 being released):
"Didn't expect to see an immediate follow up on Puck teaching Alexander the use of his powers. It was also fun to see the return of Coldstone and crew. Coldstone's appearance in the Himalayas will be explained in #6 of the Gargoyles comic series.

What helped to make the soul transfer interesting was the choice to keep Broadway, Angela and Brooklyn's voice the same. That decision payed off even more since Brooklyn's behavior was puzzling.

As far as the forshadowing goes, I'm embarassed to admit I didn't see the pairing between Broadway and Angela coming. I thought she would end up with Brooklyn."

3. The Journey:
The episode could have done without the opening monologue as it can't hold a candle to the "Previously On Gargoyles" segment.

It's easy to see the differences between this and the rest of the season. One being that this is the only episode to deal with Xanatos' amoral nature (that he can't be trusted completely). This episode also brought up more of the Gargoyles continuity than the remaining episodes.

Seeing Vinnie make peace with Goliath was a nice little twist. Still where the episode fails, the comic improves.

4. Kim Possible - Big Bother:
"I saw it on Disney Channel.com, and made sure to record it during it's premiere. Recently my stepsister had a baby last summer, she's really adorable. So, I can really understand the Stoppable's feelings towards Hana. Right up there with Alexander Xanatos, as one of the best animated babies introduced.

Favorite moments include Ron's attempt at taking care of a sack of flour and sugar, Ron breaking the news to Yori concerning him and Kim and of course the end of the episode."

So, are my paragraph reviews ok, good or needs more work?

Todd Jensen writes...

The only episodes of the original series that you never did rambles for were the final two parts of "Hunter's Moon". I don't know if you'll ever be able to do them or not, but I thought I'd give you my own ramble on both.

PART TWO: One of my favorite segments of this episode was the opening in Renaissance Florence, with Demona stealing the Medici Tablet and being pursued by a Hunter in a Leonardo da Vinci-style flying machine. (Though the Hunter does come out looking a little dense when he's cursing about having lost her, while Demona's only a few yards away from him, climbing out of the river. No wonder she's got that smirk on her face.)

Matt's reference to Nokkar at the press conference was also a lot of fun.

Elisa's scene with Jason outside the warehouse was great. It captured their feelings for each other effectively, with the added ironic twist that Elisa doesn't know that Jason was the Hunter who attacked Angela the night before, and Jason doesn't know that Elisa's friend was the gargoyle he'd almost killed the night before. (It reminds me now of the early stages of Buffy and Riley's relationship in Season Four of "Buffy", where Buffy doesn't know that Riley's part of the Initiative, Riley doesn't know that Buffy's a Slayer, and each sees the other as a civilian who needs to be kept out of the way when there's vampire-hunting going on. Though I think - and I hope you won't mind my saying this - that Joss Whedon topped you by having Buffy and Riley finding out about each others' secret lives simultaneously.)

The drama continues in the scene at Elisa's apartment later, when she and Jason almost kiss, followed by her admission (with Goliath listening) that there's someone else in her life, but a relationship with him would be impossible. The devastated response on Goliath's face is great, and moving. (No wonder he goes so berserk on the Hunters' airship shortly afterwards!)

Brooklyn and Lexington's uneasy response towards Goliath's destructiveness (including the scene where they're descending the clock tower steps with him near the end) is also well-handled.

And, of course, the build-up to the moment where Robyn opens fire on the clock tower.... It's a pity I can no longer remember what my initial response to that was.

PART THREE: You've heard this before, but I still think that the opening scene, with Demona killing Charles Canmore in front of his children, feels almost like a twisted version of the young Bruce Wayne seeing his parents' murder. (The difference is that Thomas and Martha Wayne were genuine innocent victims, while Charles Canmore brought about his own death through his pursuit of a pointless feud.)

I remember being curious over where the new Hunters had come from, since the original Hunters of "City of Stone" (except for Macbeth) were long since dead. The revelation that their surname was "Canmore" explained a lot - except that we never found out in "Hunter's Moon" how the hunt resumed, and why it revolved around Demona this time (since Duncan and Canmore's use of the Hunter's alias centered on their feud with Macbeth instead). I hope that the comic book will last long enough to answer that question in full.

The new Hunters stand out from the old ones; instead of scheming tyrants straight out of one of Shakespeare's history plays (as Duncan and Canmore were), they're more misguided. Their Shakespearean analogy (to me) is Hamlet, who also sets out to avenge his father's death, and in the process of his revenge inadvertently brings about more tragedy (the deaths of over half the cast, and Fortinbras being able to take over Denmark without a fight - and since the main thing we know about Fortinbras was that he invaded Poland over a worthless piece of land simply because his uncle wouldn't let him invade Denmark, he doesn't hold much promise as a wise and restrained ruler). The Canmores have nobler qualities than their forebears; Jason is capable of genuine feelings towards Elisa (and a change of heart at the end), in particular. They aren't the straightforward villains that the original Hunters were - which makes their conflict with Goliath's clan all the more tragic.

But they're still dangerous - especially since they blow up the clock tower in attempting to get rid of the gargoyles, which results at least in Captain Chavez getting a broken leg. Despite their having a similar modus operandi to Batman, this is another obvious difference between them; I can't imagine Batman blowing up a police station in Gotham City in an attempt to get rid of the Joker - and then, after discovering that the Joker got away, pretending that he (the Joker) blew up the police station. I've discussed Jon's behavior in framing the gargoyles for the destruction while aware of the truth about them, but Jason and Robyn don't come off much better. They've endangered and harmed their fellow humans in the course of their hunt - and instead of taking responsibility for it, blame it on the gargoyles. (To be fair to them, they do it in order to help flush the clan out rather than to evade arrest for their actions, but it's still far from honorable behavior.)

Which brings me to a side-point about the Hunters. The obvious reason why we see them as villains is that we know the truth about the gargoyles - that they're not all like Demona, and the Hunters are wrongfully persecuting an entire species for the crimes of a single member (and a member who's out of favor with her own former clan, at that). But even if the gargoyles were the demonic monsters that the Canmores believed them to be, the Hunters are still pursuing them out of a senseless vendetta, rather than to protect the public from them - and probably do more to endanger the public than the gargoyles could have done on their own. Their reasons for gargoyle-hunting are not noble ones. And while they're aware of Demona's plans to wipe out humanity, they seem to be after her more because of her past actions against her family, than because of her schemes to commit genocide.

Goliath's blaming the Hunters for Elisa going over the dam, when he's more to blame, is one of the most chilling moments of the series, and a further sign of how much the feud is warping him. Fortunately, Elisa's return snaps him out of it in time - though too late to save Jon Canmore from taking the steps that will transform him into Castaway. (His cry of "What have I done - what have *they* done?" is another chilling moment, especially to those who've seen "City of Stone Part One".)

And with Elisa saved, Goliath now shows us the best that he's capable of, in how he foils Demona's scheme. Since she's about to carry out her plan at the point that the human world has learned about the existence of gargoyles at last - and most of them are clearly hostile and howling for blood - Goliath's thwarting Demona is a truly heroic act; he's willing to endanger himself and his entire kind (not only from Demona's virus, but also from potential Quarryman-style movements to follow) in order to preserve the humans, even though most of the humans aren't likely to show any gratitude at this point.

The final scenes (following Xanatos's rescue of the gargoyles) make a fine wrap-up to the season. Elisa talking to Jason in the hospital (including the mention of Demona and Jon out hunting each other - a great way to resolve that issue if there wouldn't be a third season). Xanatos assuring Elisa that the feud with the clan is over (of course, we know now that he's still scheming - and his current scheme could lead to a clash with the clan anyway). The actions of the other gargoyles as they settle into their new (or old) home - and finally Goliath and Elisa speaking to each other atop the highest tower, and the kiss. A great ending.

Anonymous writes...

Greg,

For the sake of brevity I will suspend sentence structure, condense context, and be as melodramatic as possible for full effect; I know testimonies have come your way in the past, but I also hope that such sincere ramblings from a fan to a creator never become tiresome.

I am a 24 year old female grad student who was raised in a closet of reality, in a single-minded religion, and without a good idea of my surroundings beyond that which I was taught to observe. At the age of eleven I saw the Gargoyles premiere.

Now whether it was a direct parallel to things already unspoken or a new and subtle influence on things to come, I can positively link what is now a lifetime of serious learning to the series that you sought to create with its multi-layered story, dynamic characters, and more verisimilitude than any other cartoon series I have ever encountered. From then until now I have studied (both on my own and in institutions of higher learning) comparative history, religion, mythology, literature, philosophy, art, and government. I have written a personal mission statement of tolerance, equality, and compassion for everything with a nervous system, and have maintained a wicked sense of humor and laissez-faire attitude that would make Xanatos proud. I seek to be a scholar, a trickster, and a strong, modern woman. Elisa, I should note, is a personal hero and I am OBSESSED with Gothic architecture.

I do not claim you and your efforts are the ultimate, godly force in my life, but I want to declare the power of such themes on a young girl, and want to thank you for not believing children incapable of understanding.

My question is: does this give you satisfaction?

Because I want it to.

-Valerie

Todd Jensen writes...

A comment, rather than a question. One of my fondest memories from the days when "Gargoyles" was on the air was, after seeing "City of Stone" and "Avalon", reading up all that I could find about the historical Macbeth, and Constantine's murder of Kenneth II. I already knew some things about early medieval Scotland (enough to know that Gruoch was the name of the real Lady Macbeth, that Macbeth overthrew Duncan in battle in actual history, and about his stepson Lulach), but after seeing those episodes, I learned even more.

Now, after Bad Guys #1 and Gargoyles #7, I've experienced once again that feeling. I've looked up whatever I could find about thylacines, and Gathelus and Scota, after reading the issues that they appeared in. Now I know even more than ever that "Gargoyles" is back. Thanks, Greg.

david writes...

hi greg,i have not read all the questions,but peerhaps the first french who write here!!!
so first of all ,i'm not going to be original,but i wanted to say that all you have done,with this series is amazing .In france the series disapear since 1999 ,and i 'm still a big fan .since march i got all the episodes and how fun it is to see my heroes back .eight years happen and my vision of the series have not changed,i' m now more able to see the detail ,the important details,that i could not see when i was young.that mean for me ,that gargoyles is more an adult series ,the psikology of all the characters are perfest an so deeply worked.i do not remember seing this on any other series.I see the episodes one on one ,and after seing one reading for the first time your rambles.I think it was so fun to see how you create the show ,,your first thoughts,our what would you prefer.and so on .i wwanted to react for all of us ,but it would have bored you (64 e mail ,i think it's a bit hard)
at list i see the evolution in my perception of the series,my favorite character was brooklynn first time i saw the serie,then broadway ,i found him strong an funny.and now at 20,it is hudson i really like,his attitude ,his experience ,his warrior skills,his swords and in the price he is so good ,his dialogue with wanatos on immortality are for me one of the best moment of the series.meanwhile my favorite episodes is shadow of the past ,this is a killing one !!!!the story the animation ,all is nearly perfect ,keith david voice as goliath is wonderful,the atmosfere of hate and shadow is so great ,so spooky and so referated(i' m not sure it exists in english)to the past.I also like long way to mourning ,you know,hudson stuff,a good story ,and the fact hudson trick demona at the end with the sun .
During the multiple revision of the serie ,i discver lot of details ,you could not see when you see the episodes just one ,the last was owen when they received john carter at castle wyvern ,he hide his stony hand in the pockets of his smoking ,i had never figured before ,but what would a man say when you saw a stony arm .and i noticed a lot of scene like this.
i want to add a word on the comics,just as the serie ,great works ,we rally found what made the series a success.i have the hope that the comics will have a long life.
To end this ,i want just add a question,after all we are here to ask question!!i just want to know if you had infos about gargoyles in france for the future,not an original question i know!!!
and are you going one day to make a gathering in paris ? perhaps ,i always wanted to go at one ,but you know ,to young and it cost a lot for going ,but one day i'll come
so greg sorry for all i have written ,but i wnated to write for so long you know!!!!!!good luck for the future ,and long live to the comics (my principal hope)

K9 the First writes...

"""Vaevictis Asmadi writes...
This is just a comment to K9...

I think you are thinking of some Amazonian Native Americans. The Mayans and other people in Mesoamerica certainly wore clothes pre-contact."""

AH! Yes. Okay. Sorry, I wasn't quite sure about that. I'm more knowledgible of the eastern and North American primatives, the Central and South American areas/tribes/What-have-yous tend to blend together for me.

Ice Tyrant writes...

Hey. I got into gargoyles a few months ago when one night during summer break I was staying up late like always and noticed it on. Thought "Oh hey, Maybe I should watch that" so I set it on DVR. I'm a sophmore now, so I forgot just about everything (except for lexingtons name and Goliath it seems...) from back when I was a kid. Great show. Oh yes, and thank you. Thanks to you, and this site, I started reading macbet. Now I'm reading Beowulf (not sure if you've read that.) I owe my uhh... making reading more important to me, to you, so thanks. I'm still watching the series (Or I will start back on it I hope when I get my channels back.) and I haven't read the comics, though from what I hear they are good. Don't really have a question I guess. Just wanted to say thanks. Oh, Uhh...

1. Do you have any future plans for Nokkar in the current gargoyles series (Not 2198. Might be obvious...>_>)?

Moe writes...

Hi Greg, i just wanted to say that i love your responses to some of these questions..lol. Short and sweet, it just cracks me up. Anyway, great job with the comics, I think they're awesome, and hopefully the rest of the cartoon series will be released as well. Good luck with spectacular spider-man, i'm looking forward to your creativity, p.s. and don't bog yourself down with answering too many questions as you seem really irritated by it lol :)

Antiyonder writes...

Since it was brought back up, I too am sorry about your cat. Had a few cats we've had to say goodbye to ourselves.

dph writes...

I do not know if you realize this or not, but you have done "This day in Gargoyles' Universe History" for over 6 months now. Thank you for doing this for us, the fans.

Antiyonder writes...

Something that came to mind a while back. You mentioned in your rambling of The Mirror:
That the original dialogue from Demona was "You serve him, you can serve me". That was changed due to fear that "him" would be mistaken for Satan.

Kind of funny considering your ramble on "Her Brother's Keeper":

"Derek thinks Elisa thinks Xanatos is the "Prince of Darkness". "He practically is!" she responds. <SIGH> Tricksters are always being confused with Satan."

"But that was more irony. It's not the demonic-looking gargoyles who are being compared to Satan. It's the handsome, rich Bruce Wayne-esque playboy. I guess the goatee helps."

Makes his membership (666 members) in The Illuminati all the more fitting.

Charisma82 writes...

Tuesday, June 25, 2007: Day 5 of Gathering of the Gargoyles

I guess there really isn't a day 5, and that's probably when everyone is getting home, but still… Here's the last day of my journaling from a non-gathering point of view.

Kay and I didn't wake up until 10:00am the next morning because we were wiped out from Disneyland the day before. We packed and left the hotel around 11:00am to go next door to IHOP for the 3rd time in the three days (IHOP, day 3… it's kind of a joke around here now). We were going to meet my grandparents and my aunt and her family there, and since they called and told us they had a table already, we knew we'd be in and out of there quick. When we went inside, they were nowhere to be found. What had happened is that they went to the other IHOP on that street (for some strange reason, the IHOP people decided to put two IHOPs on the same street, literally 4 blocks from each other). We drove to the other IHOP and had breakfast there (so I guess we went to IHOP 4 times all together on the trip). When we finished breakfast, my family drove to the parking structure and went on the tram again to get into the Disneyland Park while the rest of our party walked (they had a parking pass for their car somewhere else and we didn't).

We went to California Adventure on this day. And again, there was a problem with the ticket I had to get into the park (the whole name thing was off… it was annoying). What made it worse than the day before with the other Disney employee, was that the lady was even more perturbed at us than the one before. Usually, Disney employees are the nicest people ever, but the two that we got that ushered us in each day at the ticket booth needed to remember where they worked. Enough on that. We met up with the rest of our party at a shop at the front of the park after we rented a locker to stuff our extra stuff in. We went to Soaring Over California, and seeing that the line was over an hour, we got fast passes. We went by the Grizzly Peak River Run thing and it was over an hour to wait in line (not surprising because it was REALLY hot and muggy outside), so we kept on going. We finally decided to go watch the Bug's Life 3D show, which is cute, and then after that we headed over to Tower of Terror, which only my family got on because no one else wanted to lose their breakfast or were too scared to get on it. After that ride (which is one of my favorites at that park) my cousin and Tyson wanted to get on the Grizzly Peak Rapid Ride, and so we stood in line for over an hour to get on it. That had to be the longest hour of the whole day… no the whole trip. I was not in the best of moods waiting for that ride, especially because the last time I'd gotten on the ride, I'd been soaked and uncomfortable for the rest of the trip. So, I made my dad get me a poncho that I would sit on so my backside wouldn't get wet. I didn't care if the top half of me was wet, but the bottom half of me was going to stay dry. The ride was fun and I didn't get too wet like others in our group, so I was happy. When that ride was over we had a half hour to kill before we could use our fast passes (which are a blessing… I need to shake the hand of the guy who came up with the idea of fast passes and tell him he deserves the biggest raise in Disneyland history…) so we went through the tortilla and sourdough bread factories. I like these because they are a nice little break from the crowd and you get to learn stuff too. Once we were done in there, we used the fast passes to get on Soaring Over California. Just about everyone who has gone on that ride have had only nice things to say about it. It is a very cool ride. We've seen people cry once they get off of it. How did you like that ride?

After this ride, my aunt and her family said their goodbyes to us. They left the park to go visit a friend of my aunt's for the next day. My grandparents and my family ate dinner (I had a sourdough bread bowl from the bread factory and everyone else had Mexican food). When we finished there, my family and I rode the Mulholland Madness roller coaster. My grandparents left after that to go do whatever they wanted and then they left the park. My mom, Kay, and I got on the Boomerang ride and then my whole family got on California Screamin'. That ride is awesome. We headed back over to Tower of Terror because my mom wanted to ride it again, but the line was too long, so we went to my favorite place ever which is called the Disney Animation Studio. This place is my favorite place in both parks combined, hands down. I LOVE IT!!! Have you ever been in there? If not, you're missing out. We didn't get to go to any of the rooms to do anything because my parents wanted to leave soon, so we sat in the main room, listening to music from Disney movies while drawings of the movies were shown all over the round room. After this, we did some shopping (ran into my grandparents 2 other times) and then left the park around 9:30pm. When we got home around 12:30am, everyone went to bed as soon as we walked in the door.

So, that's the whole thing and I am now finished with the journals. I hope you and all the other Gargoyles fans had a great time at the gathering. Though I didn't get to go (hopefully one day I will), I did have a great time at Disneyland.

Thank you for your time and all that you do.

-Charisma82

Charisma82 writes...

Monday, June 25, 2007: Day 4 of Gathering of the Gargoyles

Again, from a non-gathering view point… Kay and I woke up in our hotel around 8:00am. Kay takes forever to get ready, so she started right away in the bathroom while I dozed off and on into dream world and then back into reality. Once it hit around 8:30am I decided to get up for real. I turned on the TV to have some background noise and started getting ready. We planned to leave around 9:00am to 9:30am for IHOP, which was next door to where we were staying. I was glad that we left around 9:30am because I wasn't feeling so great while getting ready. When we walked into the IHOP I said "IHOP, day two," because we'd eaten at one the day before for dinner. Kay and I split something, me ending up with a pancake and her with eggs, hash browns, bacon, and sausage. I would've claimed more, but my stomach was still not up to eating much.

From IHOP we went to Disneyland. We were mad when we found out that Kay forgot the Disneyland CD in the hotel room so that we couldn't listen to it while we parked and all of that good stuff. We had to take a detour from where we usually go in to park in the parking structure because the regular way was blocked off, and so that took a bit more time. We finally made it in the parking structure and parked in the Goofy section. We took the tram to the front gate (I love riding the tram… it's really the first ride of the day at Disneyland, if you don't count the escalator). I had some trouble getting into the park because of the ticket I had. It was very annoying, especially because the Disney Cast Member wasn't very nice about it. What happened was that my ticket had a different name on it than mine because we'd let a friend borrow the ticket on a previous Disneyland trip and her name was on the ticket, but it was still our ticket (the ticket was good for up to 3 days at Disneyland and only one day had been used on it). They were asking me for ID and all that stuff, but I didn't even have that on me because I'd left it in the car. It was stressful for some people in my group who don't handle stress too well. Anyways, we finally got that taken care of and I was allowed into the park.

We had some time to kill before we met up with the rest of our party so we rented a locker to put extra stuff in, and headed for the board on Main Street that tells how long lines are. The Matterhorn was the shortest line with a 35-minute wait, so we went to that. After that ride we got on Thunder Mountain and then the Mark Twain boat that goes along the Rivers of America. Once that was over, we met up with my grandparents, aunt, cousin, and my aunt's boyfriend (who I will call Tyson, because I don's want to keep saying 'My aunt's boyfriend' the whole time). My aunt and her family wanted to ride on the Pirate Ship that goes on the Rivers of America, and since we'd already done that, we shopped while we waited for them (mainly shopped for trading pins, because I am REALLY into that). When they got off, we went to stand in line for Pirates of the Caribbean. We waited in the wheelchair line, since my aunt came in one due to health reasons. We ended up waiting there for an hour. My cousin (who is 13) told us that they'd never had to wait in a wheelchair line before. It was weird. After that ride, we went an Indiana Jones through the wheelchair line, which was fun because we got to ride on elevators and stuff to get to the ride. Once that ride was over, my grandparents left the park to go somewhere else. My aunt's family and ours went back to the Matterhorn, which was a big deal because my cousin had never been on a roller coaster ride before. They terrify her. She had to be bribed to get on it. She was promised $20.00 if she rode on it. It was funny because I sat in the car in front of her and heard her scream the whole time. That was the only roller coaster she got on all day (though she was bribed with $30.00 and a new sweatshirt of her choice if she got on Space Mountain… she still turned it down). After that ride, we went on the new Finding Nemo ride and waited over an hour in the wheelchair line, once again. The submarine was very stuffy and didn't have much air in it. It was a cute ride and is one of those you go on once to say you've been on it. After that, my aunt, mom, Kay, and I got on Space Mountain (my favorite ride of them all) through the wheelchair line. That was interesting. Everything was downhill and my mom, pushing my aunt, lost control of the wheelchair several times, almost ramming her into the wall. What was fun was when we got to the ride. All four of us got into our cars, which were not on the track, and then the cars were moved onto the track with us in them. I'd never done that before. I was bummed that the rockin' music from Red Hot Chili Peppers wasn't in the ride any longer. They'd had their music in there for about a month or two back around springtime. When the ride was over, it was VERY funny watching my mom push my aunt back up the ramps we'd taken to get there for the wheelchair people. It was SO funny because she was dizzy from the ride and she was swerving my aunt everywhere and almost hitting other people who were in the hallway. I won't forget it easily.

After that ride, my aunt and Tyson left the park for their hotel, and our family and my cousin had dinner at my favorite restaurant, Pizza Port. I love their spaghetti. Then we went on Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters where I rode alone and got to use both guns to fire with. After that, we went to Main Street to get stuff out of our locker (catching the end of the fireworks show in the process) and then watched the 50 magical years show with Steve Martin and Donald Duck as the hosts. We'd seen it at least 5 times before, so it was just something to kill time with. Once that was over, we met up with my grandparents and Tyson, who'd come back to the park for the evening. It was dark by now and we left to go see Fantasmic, but ended up getting the times screwed up and missed it. My grandparents went their separate way from us and the rest of us got on the Haunted Mansion. It was probably the shortest line all day. After that, we realized that there would be another Fantasmic show at 11:30pm, so we stayed for that. I love the Fantasmic show. It's great. When it was over, we looked in a few shops and then left the park, parting ways with my cousin and Tyson. We got back to the hotel after midnight and were wiped out. Kay took a shower and I plopped down on my bed and was asleep very soon.

Well, one more day after this and the journals will all be over. Until then…

Thank you for your time and all that you do.

-Charisma82

Charisma82 writes...

Sunday, June 24, 2007: Day Three of Gathering of the Gargoyles

Here's the 3rd day of my non-Gathering weekend. Okay… Let me remember… I woke up around 8:40am to get ready for church. I wasn't feeling good, and after being up for about 10 minutes, I decided to lie down for a while and hope that I would get better. I ended up getting to church late because of this. My mom stayed behind with me and she drove us there (It's about 10 minutes away from where I live) because when I'm sick I hate driving. I started feeling better during church services. After church ended, there was a potluck going on and I stayed with my sister (Kay) for it while my parents took one of the cars back home. I ended up sitting at a table with Kay, Fizz, D.C., Peaches (whom I have spoken of before), Sprite, CameraBoy, Cliff, and a new person whose name escapes me at the moment. Everyone was there except Morgana who was up at her family's cabin for the weekend. We all had a fun time talking about different stuff, but mostly about camp. We are all going up to a camp up in the mountains, about 10 miles from Yosemite, this next week. Everyone goes up once a year and has a great time. I haven't been in about 2 or 3 years, so I'm excited. We talked about past pranks pulled on all the cabins and all the stupid stuff people do up there.

After we were done with lunch, Kay and I took her car back home where we sat around and watched TV or did stuff on the computer. I worked on Word of the Day (a sort of contest thing that I help with) and sent it out to everyone who participates in it. Around 4:00pm we started packing up stuff for our trip to Disneyland. We left near 5:00pm. As usual, I took the middle seat and Kay took the very back seat in our Suburban while my dad drove and my mom watched movies on her DVD player in the passenger's seat. I quickly set up my seat so I could lie down and then I fell asleep.

It usually takes about 3 hours to get to Disneyland from where we live, which was how long it took this time. It was dark by the time we got to the hotel. We ended up staying in a hotel we'd never stayed in before called the Radisson. Dad went in while we waited for what seemed like forever in the car. I didn't mind so much because the hotel was playing Disney music outside and I was listening to that. I rolled down my window to hear the music better and after I did, some lady sat down on a bench not 3 feet away from my window, and started smoking. I might not have been so mad about it if she hadn't noticed my window open, but she was staring at our car which was right in front of her. Okay, if you're going to smoke, don't do it next to an open window, just out of courtesy. My dad came out of the hotel and motioned for me to come in too. I asked what was going on and he said that because we had two rooms (one for my parents and one for Kay and I) I had to sign some papers. So I waited by the counter for forever while they typed a lot of stuff and had my dad sign papers, and then they said that they didn't need me after all. They had a lot of pictures in their lobby of different Disney movies, which was cool to see. After that, we went back to the car, parked it, grabbed all our luggage/pillows/blankets/electronics, found the elevator, went up to the 3rd floor (my mom hates elevators and she's never happy when we aren't on the 1st floor), found our rooms, and finally emptied our arms full of stuff. Kay and I like to get drinks and snacks from the machines when we visit motels/hotels, so we grabbed the ice bucket, got some cash from my mom, and headed out looking for the vending machines. We found a drink machine next to the ice machine, which didn't have a great selection on it. It cost Kay $2.00 for a drink. We hopped on the elevator and took it to the 1st floor, looking for snacks, and found a mini store. I bought a lemonade (for less than $2.00, so I got the better deal) and some ice cream, and Kay bought something to snack on too (I don't remember what). We were lucky 'cause they were about to close the store.

When we got back to our room, we ate our snacks while we flipped through the channels on the TV. There weren't many channels and ended up on the Disney channel (coincidence?) where some Hillary Duff movie was on. Believe me, nothing else was on. After that ended, Kay tried to go to sleep while I surfed around for another movie. I found a movie that had just started with Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Lopez in it. I didn't catch the name of the movie, but it was about Jennifer's character going into the minds of people who are in comas, trying to get them to tell her stuff. Vince's character is a police officer that captures a serial killer who goes into a coma. Jennifer has to go into his mind to find out where a woman is whom he captured. It was interesting. And what was funny is that the boy who plays the serial killer in his mind was also the boy in the Hillary Duff movie that had been on earlier. I need to look up the name of that movie 'cause it'll bug me if I don't know the name of it. After the movie ended, I listened to some Fallout Boy and then went to sleep around 1:30am.

So that was Sunday. I'll get to Monday and Tuesday as soon as I can. Lots of Disneyland stuff going on those days…

Thank you for your time and all that you do.

-Charisma82

TiniTinyTony writes...

*** BJ's and Jess's Weekend Wedding Bonanza sans The Gathering 2007 ***

- Friday, June 22, 2007

I went to sleep early the night before so that I could meet up with all the groomsmen and the groom at 9am to go clay pigeon shooting. I was supposed to meet my friend Dan at his house in Danville and follow him to the shooting range. Well he was very late getting ready and by the time we reached the range, they were done shooting. I was pretty pissed, but I didn't let it get me down. We still had golf to do later that day, and I didn't want to go into that sport angry, especially at the low level of experience that I am in the first place.

So we all went to BJ's house, and then took two cars to get something to eat at KFC/Taco Bell, grabbed some golf balls at Wal-Mart, and then proceeded to the golf course called Turbot Hills. We had a 1:15 tee time. It was only $19 to play and it was a pretty nice course. I had borrowed an old set of golf clubs from BJ's dad, Bill, a few days before so I didn't have to spend $4 to rent a set. We got three carts, two guys per cart, drank beers and played scrimmage style where everyone plays from where the best ball was hit to. I only lost 3 balls that day which I thought was pretty good. I got a few good shots over all throughout the day, but the best part was just hanging with friends, drinking beers, and driving the golf cart.

Once we were done with 9 holes, we headed back to BJ's house to get ready for the wedding rehearsal at 5:30pm. It was going well until BJ lost it. It took him about 10 minutes to calm down and regain composure and we proceeded to practice. I assured him that it was normal to get emotional and not to worry about it.

Once we got that out of the way, we were treated to dinner. It was a good time and everyone was enjoying my antics. We then proceeded to this dive bar to have a few drinks and then headed home around 10:30pm to get plenty of sleep for the big day tomorrow.

*** BJ's and Jess's Weekend Wedding Bonanza sans The Gathering 2007 ***

- Saturday, June 23, 2007

BJ wanted all the groomsmen to meet at his house at 9am to hang out and watch movies. I got up at 7am and arrived at his place around 9:15am. I was the first one there. We proceeded to Sheetz and got some breakfast biscuits or Shbizcuits or something bizarre like that. We went back to BJ's and hung out. We didn't end up watching movies, but we ended up cruising the internet for a bit and then played bocce outside once the other groomsmen showed up. Before long it was time to head to the church and get dressed in our tuxes.

It was 1pm and we left for the church where we had put our tuxes the night before so it was convenient for Saturday. Once we got dressed, it was Adam "Wags" Wagner and mine job to light the candles on the altar. We did a great job of course, and then we proceeded with the other groomsmen, to escort the other ladies into the church to their seats. That was probably the most fun part, for me, for no apparent reason. Once it was 3:00pm, it was time to begin. All of us lined up in front of the church with the priest, and the bridesmaids entered while music played. Then Jess came in with a huge smile on her face, as her dad brought her up to the altar. After only 20 minutes it was over, and BJ and Jess were now husband and wife.

We waited outside and blew bubbles at them. I miss the old days when you could throw rice. That was always fun. After that it was time to take pictures back inside the church. We did this for 40 minutes until the limos came at 4pm.

The limos took us to the reception where more pictures were taken. I believe it wasn't until 7pm until we finally entered the reception and sat down to eat. The picture taking seemed to take longer than usual, and I'm sure the guests were upset, but I wasn't complaining, but made jokes and had a great time.

The best man and the father of the bride gave their speeches; we toasted, and began to eat some really delicious food - steaks cooked right on this huge grill in front of us. There was plenty of wine to drink for the reception was at the Spyglass Winery, and there was a half keg of Yeugling Lager, a local favorite in Pennsylvania. Not a lot of people were on the dance floor, but I was out there having a good time. I didn't bring a date, so I danced with Jess's friends and her cousins. They were all very beautiful young women and very nice to talk to and dance with.

But like all good things, this wonderful event had come to an end. I danced the last dance of the night with BJ's mom, Susie. She is a really great lady and I consider her my second mom. Once the DJ started packing up, she was nice enough to give me a ride back to my car at the church. I got home around 11:15pm that night and I was beat. I passed out around midnight, but not before setting my alarm.

*** BJ's and Jess's Weekend Wedding Bonanza sans The Gathering 2007 ***

- Sunday, June 24, 2007

I had my alarm set for 10am. I got up around 9:30am. There was a post wedding celebration at Jess's parent's house at noon where my presence was requested.

I got to their house around 11:54am, and was the first groomsman there. BJ and Jess weren't there yet, but thankfully showed up 5 minutes later.

We had all the left over food from the wedding to eat, which was probably more delicious the next day. We played washers and horseshoes outside, while drinking beers and bullshitting, talking about how well the wedding went and how much fun everyone had.

People didn't stay very long, but I helped clean up and left around 4pm. I took the rest of the day to relax after the crazy and fun weekend that I just experienced.

Great job to all the groomsmen who helped make the weekend so memorable. Congratulations to BJ and Jess, whom I love and respect with all my heart.

Hopefully, next year I'll get to experience The Gathering experience in Chicago.

Lloyd Frisone writes...

I asked a question previously but forgot to include my email. lfrisone@comcast.net

Charisma82 writes...

Saturday, June 23, 2007: Day Two of Gathering of the Gargoyles

After I was done typing up my journal for yesterday around 1:30am in the morning, I ended up staying up until about 4:30am watching stuff on You Tube. I also did some reading of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I've read all the books before, but since the 7th and final Harry Potter book is coming out in a few weeks, I thought I'd better refresh my mind by reading all the books over again. I also want to remember what happened in the 5th book because the 5th movie is coming out soon too. I don't want to sound like I'm a big Harry Potter fan, because I'm not the biggest Harry Potter fan out there, I just like the story. Have you read any of them? Anyways, I went to bed around 4:30am and didn't wake up until 11:00am, which I'm shocked I got away with. My mom usually makes sure my sister and I are awake by 10:00am at the latest. After I woke up, my sister and I got ready to go back down to the church building to help decorate the high school room with a couple other people. Since it's the summer time and people are doing a lot of stuff, only 2 other people showed up to help. So all together it was my sister (Kay), D.C., Fizz, (all nicknames in case they have a problem with me putting their names on here) and me. First, we played a couple rounds of ping-pong (play before work… it's out of order, I know…) to get ready for ping-pong at camp next week and then we went to work on the high school room. I'm not in the high school class, and neither is D.C., so we didn't really know what needed to be done in there. First we had to take down all the old stuff in the room. Then we called up a guy that teaches in there to get some ideas, and since they weren't solid ideas and just some thrown out there suggestions, I decided to go with the theme of going down the path of righteousness or going down the path that rocks (the path that rocks, being the one that shouldn't be chosen… I'll explain). We used Kronk from the Disney movie The Emperor's New Groove (Kronk is my favorite good guy Disney character ever) and used his shoulder angel and devil's line "He wants to lead you down the path of righteousness… I want to lead you down the path that rocks…" We had to enlarge a picture of Kronk on a light projector on a wall, which took forever, and then we had to outline him again in marker. Then we had to make speaking bubbles for them to talk. It took up a lot of time, and we still didn't get it all finished. Half of it is done, but we'll have to finish the rest next week.

Everyone was hungry and since I hadn't eaten anything all day, I was ready to choose a place and go there… except that no one could agree on anything. Around 4:30pm we finally left in my car, me driving of course, and headed to Subway in the mall. I will say that I advertised the Gathering of the Gargoyles while at Subway by telling my group that it was going on this weekend. D.C. has seen gargoyles and knew what I was talking about, and Kay, being my sister, knew about it too, but Fizz needed some informing about it. After eating (I had a BLT… I think it's funny when you ask for a BLT and they still want to know if you want lettuce and tomato on the thing…) we went into Borders, which is part of the mall, and I ended up running into someone I went to high school with. She was really nice and told me we should get together and do something next week, yet the problem is that I don't know where I put her phone number… Kay, D.C., and Fizz took off into the mall while I was talking with the girl and I had to call Kay to find out where they went. They ended up wasting money on a claw machine, gave up, and used the rest of their change buying candy. Fizz had to go home, so we left the mall and I dropped her off. Kay, D.C., and I didn't want to go home just yet so I spoke up and said we should go to Cold Stone (It's funny how that's the name of that gargoyle in Gargoyles) because I love their ice cream. We went there and I bought a Peanut Butter Cup Perfection… oh, that's living (I LOVE peanut butter). I couldn't finish it and had to throw half of it away. After that we went to Best Buy, which is right behind the Cold Stone. We played some video games and browsed the DVD isles. After that, we went to Game Stop, which is across the street from Best Buy. The same video game we'd been playing at Best Buy was also at Game Stop, so we played it again just for kicks. We left there and D.C. got the call from home that he had to go home. We drove to the other side of town to drop him off and were invited to see either Dream Girls or Epic Movie with him and his sister, but Kay called our house and our dad said we needed to get back home to get packed for Disneyland (we're leaving Sunday to go down there).

We left D.C. and Peaches (his sister) and got home around 7:00pm. Mom and Dad weren't around so we started watching the movie the Pacifier (which wasn't that great). Our parents finally got home after being at Walmart buying stuff for our trip to Disneyland and California Adventure. My dad sat down to watch the end of the movie with us while my mom printed out pictures from Kay's 16th birthday party 3 weeks ago. My mom needed to clear her camera of pictures so she can take some when we go to Disneyland. My mom gave up on the picture printing thing and told my sister to continue it, but Kay ended up getting me to do it while she took her shower. I ate an apple and listened to music on the Cinemagic channel. They were playing music from the soundtrack of Braveheart. Once Kay was done in the shower, she took over printing pictures and I went to my room to check up on my e-mails online. I wrote back to my cousin who lives in Colorado and then checked up on stuff in ASKGREG. After that, I wrote this. So now that I'm caught up, I'm going to sign off. I probably won't get any more journals in until the middle of the week, seeing as we're leaving for Disneyland today (it's just past midnight) and won't get back home until either Tuesday or Wednesday. Now, I'm going to blow dry my hair and then get to bed so I'll be good and awake for church in the morning.

Thank you for your time and all that you do.

-Charisma82

Charisma82 writes...

Hey! Wow, has it already been a year since the last Gathering? It feels like just a while ago. Sadly, just like last year, I was not able to make it to the Gathering of the Gargoyles. I'm not as crushed over it as I was last year, or the year before that, or the year before that… but still, I figure that I will get to one of them one of these days, so keep having them, and I'll hopefully turn up some day. I didn't do a pre-gathering journal yesterday because nothing really happened yesterday. So here it goes for the first day of the Gathering of the Gargoyles (from the point of view of someone not being there)…

Friday, June 22, 2007: The First Day of Gathering of the Gargoyles

Today started way too early for me. All of my days for the past 4 weeks have started too early for me. I signed up for a summer class and was fool enough to sign up for a class that started at 7:00am. I've been waking up a little bit before 6:00am every morning because the school is in a different town and I have to drive a while to get there. I am definitely not a morning person. I'm used to going to sleep late and waking up late. I've been forcing myself to go to bed at midnight so I can be awake enough for the class every morning. But fortunately for me, today was my last day, so I no longer have to wake up so early. Actually, besides waking up early, I really liked the class. It was an English class that dealt with a lot of literature, which I enjoyed. We read a lot of short stories, poems, and a few plays in the class. The teacher even showed us the play "A Midsummer Night's Dream" on video that was made back in the 30's. I really liked it and was able to keep up with the names, mainly because of watching Gargoyles for as long as I have been. Since today was the last day, we had a final. We had to write a paper in class about 1, 2, or 3 different pieces of literature we'd read in class and connect them together to make a common point. I chose the poem entitled "The Ruined Maid" by Thomas Hardy and the play entitled "Overtones" by Alice Gerstenberg and talked about how moving up in social class isn't what makes a person happy, which I proved with the two pieces of literature that I chose. There was more to it, but I'm not going to get into all of that here. We were supposed to write out the paper by hand in MLA format in ink. I decided to write it out in pencil first so I wouldn't make mistakes on my final copy. Because I did this, I took up the entire 2 hours, continuously writing. My hand felt like it was going to fall off once I was done. Though it took me a lot longer to write the paper twice, I was glad I did. I didn't have any mess ups on the final draft. I was very fortunate that my paper was only 6 pages long, because that's all the paper I had on me. I couldn't afford to make mistakes.

After I finished there, I headed home (and got to hear Fuel's song "Hemorrhage" which I rocked out to). I got home just as my mom and sister went off to work. I got on the computer to do my usual rounds of checking up on e-mail and looking at my usual websites (including, of course, ASK GREG). After that, I sat around the house for a while before I became tired and knew I had to get a nap in if I wanted to last the rest of the day. I slept for about 3 hours and got up around 4:30pm to 5:00pm.

Around 6:00pm, my family (my parents and younger sister) and I took off for Family Fun Night at our church. Before we got there, we stopped by Carl's Jr. for some dinner. I didn't eat much since I wasn't feeling that great. We got to the church building a bit before 7:00pm and were the first ones there. After waiting for about 20 minutes, we had more people show up. We played cards and ping-pong. I've decided that I need to start playing ping-pong every day until next week when I go up to camp. I say this because one of the main sports up at camp is ping-pong and I found out how much practice I need when playing it tonight. I think the most fun game with ping-pong is Around the World in which a bunch of people line up around the table and take turns hitting the ball back and forth. It's not as easy as it sounds or looks. After ping-pong, about six of us decided to play hide-and-seek walky-talkies (which is basically hide-and-seek with a set of walky-talkies in the mix). That was fun. It's not so easy when the entire building is pitch black dark and you can't turn lights on. I have the best hiding spot in a closet under a set of stairs that no one ever wants to look in because there is so much junk in there and it is very dark. I was really mad when one of the younger girls decided to hide with me then decided not to because she was afraid of the dark, and then told everyone where I was once she herself was found. Now that my hiding spot has been blown, I have to find some other great hiding spot. Anyways, we ended up leaving there around 9:45pm.

When we got home, Dad really wanted to watch the baseball game that had the Colorado Rockies in it because he grew up in Colorado. He was sad when they lost at the very end of the game (sorry if I ruined that for anyone… I hope I didn't). My mom and I played Mancala (a game played with flattened marbles and a wooden board…I don't know how else to describe it) while we watched some show on the top 10 funniest women ever. It wasn't that great of a show, but there was nothing else on that the family could agree upon to watch (my mom, sister, and I wanted to watch Pirate Master, a show we got hooked on at the beginning of summer break, but my dad put his foot down and said no). My parents went to bed around 11:30pm and my sister and I stayed up to watch the AFI's top 100 movies in the past 100 years that we'd recorded on Tivo earlier in the week. It was good. We didn't know about half the movies in the countdown, but were excited to see the ones we did know. It finally ended around 1:30am. My sister went to bed, and now I'm in my room typing this.

So all in all, this was actually a busy day compared to the past couple of weeks around here. I wish I could say that I watched Gargoyles so it would seem that I'm keeping the spirit of Gargoyles alive during the Gathering of the Gargoyles (since I'm not there), but I'm too tired to start watching one of them. I'd probably fall asleep while my eyes burned trying to keep awake. Maybe tomorrow I'll do some Gargoyle watching…

Thank you for your time and all that you do.

-Charisma82

Justin writes...

Dear Greg,
I have been meaning to write you this comment for a very long time. It seems that the longer things go on, the more my life parallels things you presented on Gargoyles. Not everything mind you, haha, but somethings certainly strike a new chord than when I watched the show at 13.

To start this off, on Sept. 28th, 2005 my mother passed away. It was hard but my sisters and I got through it. Eventually around the holidays, both my sisters left for verying educational pursuits while I was tasked with taking care of our home. This officially happened in January 2006. I thought I could handle it but all of a sudden the sheer realization that I was all alone in my childhood home ( save our 2 cats and a dog) became too much to bare.

Eventually I started feeling like I was losing myself. Well this went on for a few weeks then a month or so like this and then early february, our heat went out. I had no job then and I couldn't afford the bill. It just so happened this was the coldest time of the winter that this occured.

Anyway, my little sister was attending Indiana University at the time, got wind of the situation and arranged to get me out of there, to stay the night with a family friend. I had known this family for years and I didn't want to burden them. Nor did I want to abandon my pets to the cold. So in an insane headspace I told my sister no. That I was not leaving.

Long story short I left my house that night and stayed a few days with the friends mentioned above. Here is the kicker... this is the only Gargoyles reference I have made so far but I hope if I illustrated the story well enough you see the similarities already..

When I got to my friend's home they set me up on the couch and gave me free reign over the TV. I turned to Toon Disney knowing Gargoyles would be on soon, and you know what episode was running that night? HAHA, you guessed it, Enter Macbeth.

My little sister convinced me it was suicide to stay at my home, and I ended staying with family friends that were truly more like extended family. Hudson's line struck a deep chord.. "Where we can be together and safe" It wasn't my house I was protecting, althought I thought so.. I was protecting what I felt was all I had left. Eerily similar.

In any event, I felt I would pass that along. I won't be able to attend Pigeon Forge but now I live in Chicago, so I hope to see you next year!

Peace, Love, and Empathy,

Justin M. Lindley

Cedric Calles writes...

Hello Greg. I read the last post and this indeed is my real name if curious " Cedric franklin kaili Calles " Proud Scott/Irish man. When I was younen I enjoyed watching your "Gargoyles" very much. I was fasinated of medievil times. Where times of honor, glory, and magic lived in those mystical ages. Atlass when I saw the last episode and the unfortunate fate awaited for Goliath and his clan. I was bloody mad at the end and later cried. Hours passed and I began to think, the cartoon era was changing and were losing their ways. A New Era of twisted cartoons that contained stories of no moral, ideas, or reasoning to the common sense and violence to the extreme beyond of comprehision, strange ideas of doing wrong was right, and the idea of its ok to be stupid or do stupid things as a normal daily life, was born. Which comes to my question...

Do you believe it was the right call for " Gargoyles " to end as it was to be saved from the New Era of Corruption, keeping its Orgin?

My final question, why did you not make a book out of it? To open a world of their world to ours.

Kaylle writes...

Way back in October 2005, the day they released the cover art for the second DVD set, I watched a bunch of episodes instead of doing my homework and typed up my musings on them (mostly on Hunter's Moon and the Goliath/Elisa relationship) in my livejournal. Today I'm *still* trying to avoid my homework, and the queue is open again, so I thought I'd dig up those old musings and get your opinion on them (I may have posted something like this in the CR once as well; my apologies if you happened to catch it there). So here they are. I wrote:

"At the end of HM3, Elisa and Goliath finally get some "resolution" to their relationship. The infamous kiss it took us (and them) 65 episodes to get to. I hate to call it resolution at all because it doesn't really resolve anything; their relationship is still in a pretty uncertain place and kissing hardly changes that. But it's the first time they both admit what's going on between them and do something, however small, about it. And it provided some small measure of satisfaction for the fans, who were just beginning to realize that was all we were going to get. I remember being so hopeful, so excited, 13 years old, watching in awe as finally, *finally* the two of them "got together." I hadn't realized it was the season finale, although really it was pretty obvious (I didn't know cartoon shows *had* season finales). And I certainly hadn't realized it was, for all intents and purposes, the end." [Of course, I know now what I didn't know in October 2005-- it wasn't the end! We have a comic book!]

"But I digress. Anyway, I noticed two things today. First, in HM1, during the scene on the subway: after he dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to Goliath, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet. But I noticed today the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.

"Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half-convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it. But when you're 12-13 years old you miss some of the subtler points <g>.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.

"So then I went picking through episodes looking for Goliath/Elisa moments. (Aren't they cute in Eye of the Beholder, dancing in their Halloween 'costumes'? Even the trio notices. "They should have Halloween more often.") As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.

"So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She has shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).

"Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, even if Elisa doesn't necessarily know that) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.

"The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably "happier" than Elisa is; at least, she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head. So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)

"Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it? Of course, they've had a traumatic couple of days, and that could be a reason all by itself."

At that point I decided that I'd spent way too much time analyzing things and that I really ought to be doing work, so I stopped. But I'm still intrigued by it all. I guess if I had to distill it down into a few questions, they would be:

1) Is there a reason for Goliath's gesture (or lack thereof) on the train, or am I thinking too hard/paying too much attention to tiny details?

2) Does Elisa know that touching hair is the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss? (Maybe not in so many words, since I doubt the gargoyles think of it in terms of how their gestures of affection are equivalent to human gestures, but does she realize the sort of underlying meaning of a touch like that?) And if so, how does she know? Just from observation and intuition? Did someone tell her?

3) Why does Elisa finally speak up at the end of HM3? What changes her mind about keeping quiet?

Thanks for listening to me ramble on a bit, and for taking the time to answer our questions. It's only out of love that we analyze every aspect of things :)

Antiyonder writes...

Most of us have been talking about the yet to be released Volume of Gargoyles, whether it's in the comment room or submitting in the Ask A Question. I do agree that that the Disney blaming has gone overboard at times (I'm guilty of it as well). I can't speak for everyone of course, but I'm going to do my best to describe why we tend to blame the company so to speak (I know you don't mean any offense). Since, you have more business experience than some of us, your POV would be helpful.

1. Again part of the reason why we aren't seeing anymore DVDs are lack of purchases from the previous sets. Yes part of it is due to lack of sales, but also lack of advertising. It's not just DVDs, but with say network television (Not just with Disney). Aside from quality there are many reasons a show would turn up with low ratings, like:

- Lack of commericals, hence the viewer doesn't know it exist.
- The show is aired so much that the viewer gets tired of it, or so little they don't have a chance to draw in fans. Odd thing about that is that a particular program is aired constantly when it only has 13/26 episodes, yet when/if it has 65-78 episode, then it's not aired so often. Should be the other way around.
- The show is aired in a timeslot that most people don't watch.

It just seems like the higher ups don't really understand their audience, or they do but don't want to take responsibility. After all, admiting to a mistake is viewed by some to be a sign of shame and humiliation rather than being responsible.

1a. Also, with the comics, I heard sales lowered for #3. That's due of course to lack of a consistant release. My question is if Disney will acknowledge that lower sales are due to delaying approval, or will they assume that the comic itself is the problem. You can count on us hardcore (in my case semi-hardcore) fans to stick with it to the end, but as has been said in the comment room newcomers or casual buyers are going to be put off by the delays if it keeps up. Regardless, I'm trusting that the situation should improve.

2. Then there's the concept of money. It seems like the higher ups in the business never heard of the saying "You have to spend money to make money". It just seems like with any product (DVD, Comics, etc) they expect to make a fortune by investing a few cents (not literaly mind you).

2a. I know that companies like Disney are in the business to make money and I repsect that. The problem is it seems their ambition is more of an obsession. For instance, I know that you're sure as heck not doing all of this work for free, but for you the money isn't a one-tracked mind thing. Same could be said of folks like Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Tom Defalco, Peter David, Steve Loter, Mark McCorkie, Bob Schooley.

I really hope this came across as a constructive complaint, rather than a mindless hatefilled rant. After all, I'm not always good at using the right words, to voice my opinion.

Gerin writes...

Hi again Greg,

not a question really, but I recently read an older post of yours where you explain your negative opinion about "Return of the Jedi" and the confrontation between Luke and the emperor in particular. Since you sometimes ask your fans to ramble too, here's why I think this is one of the best standoffs in the history of movies:

THE EMPEROR:
High class villain. Fragile, feeble, understated. Gives definition to "sinister", implies awesome aura.
And witty! Usually, when Good Guy (James Bond, Superman, Elisa) is at the mercy of Bad Guy (Blofeld, Lex Luthor, Demona), isn't Bad Guy all outspoken and arrogant, but alas, Good Guy always has wittier deliveries, better puns etc.?
Whatever Luke throws at him, Palpatine's got the retorts. "Your arrogance is your weakness", says Luke. Any other villain would now start throwing around threats, acting all superior, unwillingly confirming the statement. Not Palpatine. He's even kind of agreeing by saying "The trust in your friends is yours." And Luke is speechless.

THE DARK SIDE EXPLAINED:
For two and a half movies, we've been lectured constantly on how fear and anger lead to the dark side. Morale, good and evil, yadda-yadda. Always play nice. Yeah, as if it matters. Power is power, right?
Suddenly, it does matters and the concept becomes tangible: Vader threatens Luke's sister, and boy does Luke get mad. And powerful! No finesse anymore, just sheer rage. It's filmmaking at its best! Listen to the choir. Watch how this outlashing is not strung out to minutes. It's a matter of seconds, the point is made.

FORCE LIGHTNING:
Eventually, Luke spares Vader. Luke states: "I'm a jedi.", again no threats from the emperor, just acknowledges the fact: "As you wish, jedi." And then, he tells Luke how puny he is. And shows him.
Unfortunately, the climax that these force lightings represent don't come across anymore because they have become common through the videogames, not to say Ep. II and III where they are used without abandon.

No intent to argue. Just my ramble, really. :-)

Chip Coffin writes...

I figured I'd better separate this into two posts. I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your comments to Vaevictus Asmadi about the creation of Gargoyles. I personally am a Creationist (Intelligent Design Theorist to be PC *Chuckles*) And I find that very few people actually respect my beliefs and I am very surprised and grateful that you are. I of course know that I'm vastly outnumbered in the fandom, and I know that you are not a creationist, but it means a lot to me that there is someone in Hollywood who acknowledges that there are creationists in their fandoms and haven't writen any "Travel to the Time of The Dinosaurs" stories (Mind you I believe in Dinosaurs, I just don't buy the 65 million years, We creationists call them Dragons)

Gargoyles have wings, and thus were made on day 5, (Putting them before humans on day 6, and thus they are still the first race even to us creationists) Once again, I thank you for respecting my beliefs.

Rock On-Chip

Shadow Wing writes...

Hi Greg, I'm back again.

I've been doing my best to spread the word about Gargoyles - I've told people about the comics, the DVDs, and the Gathering - I've even managed to bring a couple more people into the fandom by loaning them the DVDs - they were hooked from Awakenings.

Since December, I've managed to get the first two issues of the comic - would have gotten the third today, but I couldn't make it to my comic store. Hoping to get it Friday.

I loved the first two issues - and the fact that I already knew the story in them did absolutely nothing to reduce the pleasure I derived from them. I may or may not go into a more detailed review after I get the third ish.

Anyhow, I've spent the past three months watching my DVDs (the Toon Disney airing keeps moving to less and less convenient time slots, and on some level, I wonder if they're TRYING to get bad ratings for it), and have come up with a few questions/comments - but I don't want anything to be dropped from Ask Greg, so they won't be submitted now.

I'm trying like mad to make it to The Gathering this year - Pigeon Forge is the closest it's ever been, and I don't know how long before it comes close enough for me to attend again (limited budget, can't afford air fare). If I can make it, I hope to see you there.

Quandra "Dusk Rider Q" writes...

Hello Again Greg,

I am trying 110% to keep this post friendly, and I will. More in light of a post some ways below mine, I'd like to thank and congratulate you and the rest of the producers for putting in so many "non-white" people, particularly black people. As a young black girl growing up with this series, it was exciting to see characters who looked like me and that wasn't token or there just to be the stooge to a lead white male (Power Rangers come to mind). In fact in retrospect I remember being surprised to find that Elisa was black! It seemed so odd and now I realize that it because we as children of color are conditioned to feel that inferiority when there are not any heroes or led characters for us to look to. Despite seeing Elisa's mother in the episode "Deadly Forces" later I almost couldn't still fathom that she was black. It's hard to articulate.

Having grown up in the Bay Area, just about the most diverse place in America aside from New York, I am more than used to seeing so many people of color in important positions, hearing so many different languages, and meeting so many people from other backgrounds. However, going away to college I realized that much of the world was not so fortunate as I to have known many lawyers and doctors of color. Therefore, you have no idea how I commend you for being to only show to this day I can think of that put a bi-racial or black female in a lead role without trying to cater to the black demographic. If only through Gargoyles, some kids could be introduced this possibility and not have their only concept of black people being through stats like "You have to ackknowlege that American Blacks have an IQ of 85 compared to a white IQ of 100, Blacks commit over half of the crimes in the USA," however true or untrue that is. It's saddens me when I meet white people who are either scared of me or have to prove to me that their not racist by rattling off the Black history they do know. I wish the media had more of us portrayed like Elisa who doesn't have to roll her neck to show that she is very aware of her blackness but more specifically her Nigerian Ancestry. She's assertive without being "ghetto" or loud. She's beautiful and sexy without being easy. Sadly, as a young black woman I find it's what people expect of me-that if I get angry I will smack my lips or snap my fingers, or they really want to know what I'm like at second base but they won't ask in front their friends- because they think of some Ying Yang Twin videos over Heather Headley videos, and they've never met black people outside of TV while growing up in white suburbia. If only there were more Elisas…

Also, I loved that Elisa looked different from the typical black person on TV. I find that we are actually the most diverse looking group of people on this planet, but actresses in Hollywood are always made to look darker if they are light-skinned like Elisa, or else they just aren't cast. Terrence Howard is the only light-skinned man in the business I can think of who has made it, but no women. And just for the record light-skinned people are not as few and far between as other races think. I had this discussion in one of my high school classes. My classmates tended to think you had to be mixed like Elisa to be light-skinned which is not the case. (I can trace my lineage back six generations on my mothers side to the slave ships, but the only person of another race was one of my great-great grandmothers, and Indian woman. Yet, Two of my dad's sisters, My mom's one sister, is lighter, and three of my grandma's sisters are light skinned like Elisa. It just happens.) I'm glad Elisa just didn't have to have big lips, a broad nose, an afro, and dark brown skin. Even though that's fine because it's kind of how I look, the media has this one image of how we all look in every cartoon, but she's a contrast for my auntie, and two of my best friends.

Finally, I'm glad black men get good treatment. Derek was a righteous, and good cop, a man looking to define himself outside of his parents. He reminded me of my cousins. Hudson's blind friend was intelligent and believable. Thank you for showing that not all black men wind up in prison. And though Glasses did go to prison, as the other poster pointed out he was the right hand man. In my studies as a Psychology major it may be several reasons for the fact so many of us go to prison rather than college, but it shouldn't be assumed blacks are inherently more dumb or evil. Could it be that more people of low socio-economic situation can't afford the best lawyers therefore if caught won't be aquitted as easily as whites? Yes. There are several reason in fact.

I don't feel that putting people of color has made this show somehow prejudice against white. Matt is very competent; I love him! Macbeth, despite his wicked schemes, is very honor-bound, and several of the World Tour episodes highlighted whites of Europe playing the hero. Likewise having Captain Chavez be a woman no more demeans men of strong positions on some fallacy of man-bashing feminism.

All that said it isn't likely that a ninja would be black. I had more problems with the fact that every time we see an Asian on TV they tend to know Karate or else can't speak proper English. But as a whole, Bushido and all the other episodes that visited other nations I felt treated the cultures with respect and beauty. The show found the magic in these culture reminding us that Medieval Europe is not the only place with magic and fantasy stories of interest. Can't say it enough-- Thank You, Greg.

Shadow Wing writes...

Mr. Weisman:

I don't have an actual question, I just want to say that the first episode of Gargoyles aired on my birthday (not my FIRST birthday, one of the ones that came later), so I wanted to thank you for the birthday present, Greg.

Blaise writes...

HUNTER'S MOON, PART ONE

The beginning of the end (so to speak…).

I have to say, GARGOYLES was the first animated series I remember that actually seemed to have "Season Finales"--it just made it that much more special for me.

The "HUNTER'S MOON" title font is in red (as opposed to the usual blue color). It really helps set this apart from the other episodes, and indicates that "Big Things" are about to happen in the world of the show (at least, to me). I have to ask, Greg, when did you guys decide to change the font color for this three-parter?

The re-made Gillecomgain sequence is cool, despite the erroneous use of Demona's older model. I always notice that Demona's line from CITY OF STONE ("That'll teach you humans to betray us") is shortened here to just "That'll teach you humans." Was that done for time, or just to avoid getting bogged down with trying to explain the reference?
I can't help but hold a bit of fascination for Gil's father. The guy is an unsympathetic jerk, but his attitude toward the idea of "a rogue gargoyle looking for food" surprised me. He doesn't seem to view them with any of the venom or disdain (or even wonder) that we've seen others show. In fact, (like your ramble says) he just seems to view such things as a part of life. He almost reminds me of a quote attributed to W. C. Fields, "I am completely without prejudice; I hate everyone equally" (quote approximate). I guess, in that way, I dislike him a little less than I do Gillecomgain and many of the other Hunter's.

Anyway, flash forward to the present and the subway.
Yes, I did recognize Elisa in her disguise--the outfit may have been different but I'd already seen Elisa in that blonde wig, and well, "Fool me once…."
The three muggers make another of their little appearances, this time with slightly different character models: trench coats just big enough to conceal weapons (I only point this out here because I didn't really notice it until I read your memos, Greg).
The one thug's line (when threatening Elisa) about settling for a "first date" made me raise my eyebrows a bit. It's another one of those suggestive lines, and for me actually helped add another layer of realism to the scene.

We get our little list of cameos on the train (complete with a bickering session between Margot and Brendan), and then the gargoyles arrive.
One thing I've always noticed about the subway fight sequence (aside from the brief shot of Goliath with grey eyes), is that the only gargoyles who engage in any action are Goliath (who does pretty much everything), Brooklyn (who tears a hole in the ceiling only to get a shot across his arm) and Angela (who glides down to assist Brooklyn). What were Broadway and Lex given to do in all this? Play "Rock, Paper, Scissors?" And they're even the ones crowing loudest on their way home ("Are we good or what?"--I wouldn't know since you didn't DO anything!). ;-)

The third mugger's voice seems to change. When he first spoke back in the subway station he's voiced by one guy (kind of sounds like Tom Wilson) but when he pulls his gun on Goliath ("Tough luck, handsome") he's voiced by another guy (sounds like Jim Cummings). Another one of those things I always seem to notice.

You mentioned Demona's change being a bit "anime" in your ramble, Greg, and I noticed that as well, but it wasn't the only bit of "anime-like" animation I remember. When Elisa delivers her "Just some concerned citizens…with wings" line (LOVE that, BTW) and continuing through the next scene up until the gargs' arrival at the Clock Tower, the animation always struck me as having a style similar to anime. Mostly it's their eyes; the way they blink and close.

At any rate, Greg, you guys definitely established the status quo of life being good for the gargoyles at this place and time. And I was even beginning to see the Broadway/Angela relationship. I know that my brother was one of those who followed the idea of Brooklyn/Angela, and Angela's tending Brooklyn's wounds probably helped convince him, but for myself I figured it would be Broadway and Angela as soon as I saw them roosting next to each other. That's right; POSSESSION didn't influence me one way or the other, but seeing the two of them in such close proximity convinced me they were going to be an item. Just the funny way my mind works, I guess.

Now we meet Jason for the first time (and he's revealed in almost the same manner Matt was back in THE EDGE), but Elisa's reaction could not be more different (it's actually a nice little comedic beat the way she shifts gears like she does).
During the conversation in the car, it's obvious (to me at any rate) that Jason was hiding something (this is based mostly on the way he sidesteps the question of where he transferred from). One thing I notice is that although he brings up the subject of urban myths, he never mentions gargoyles. This provides an intriguing contrast with Jon's approach, which I'll get to later.

During the robbery and its subsequent chase sequence, Jason does all the things we say cops should do in that situation--he shoots the flammable material, he shoots out the tire of the getaway van. The thing is, to me, this is a subtle indication that Jason is not a real cop. I don't know for certain, but I think discharging a firearm (shooting a gun) from a moving vehicle is technically against regulations. Of course, Elisa doesn't bat an eye, but this is the gal who walked right into the men's locker room.

There are some fun moments in the chase. Elisa muttering, "My mechanic's going to love this" when she starts to drive "off-road" (said mechanic will love all the bullet holes even less). Also, the stage coach horse understandably rears up as the two vehicles pass pretty much under it's bucking legs, but the stage coach driver isn't fazed at all. I guess it's just another day at work for him.
Eventually, the cops catch the bad guys (most of them, anyway) and the new partners compliment each other's respective abilities. Then Jason offers to buy Elisa a cup of coffee. I hear that, and I think to myself, "Uh-oh." Another guy might be coming between Goliath and Elisa (unknowingly, of course). Our heroes "calm bay" has started to develop waves….

Anyway, Robyn is interviewing over at Nightstone Unlimited. I always wondered why she singled out that company as the one to infiltrate. Maybe she caught rumors about Dominique Destine's never having been seen at night….
I can definitely see the idea of her as a female Owen: stoic demeanor, "pointed" face, blue eyes, blonde hair. Give her a pair of wire frame glasses and it'd be a perfect match!
And may I just say that I love Dominique's business dress. In fact, Demona presents herself very well as a businesswoman, except when she gets angry, of course (it's almost comical when she looks about ready to rip the burglar to pieces in her business suit).
And yes, her change kicks ass. I just wish the animators had remembered to leave off her tiara.

Is it just me, or is Act 2 of this ep shorter than usual? I swear it just seems to fly by.

I love the scene of Xanatos playing with Alex while being interviewed by Matt. I did believe Xanatos when he said DI-7 was a disinfectant--I had no reason to suspect him of ulterior motives at this point. Matt, of course, tries to give his best, "I'm a good guy who knows you're dirty" barb, but Xanatos just deflects it by asking his son, "Alex, can you say 'harassment?'" Alex babbles some baby talk, and Xanatos says, "I knew that you could." I love that little moment.

Goliath's reaction to Elisa's description of her new partner always intrigued me. When she's doing nothing but complimenting him, he's smiling, even seems somewhat amused, but when she tries to downplay it, his smile vanishes. He's able to pick up on her personality quirks. Seems like they're in a relationship to me!

The gargoyles seem to be going REALLY fast when they glide past camera on their way to their stakeout locations. Just something that really struck me this time.

But now we meet Jon, posing as a reporter for WVRN. He also seems to be trying to collect information on gargoyles, but he's nowhere near as subtle as Jason. "Gargoyles" are practically the first thing Jon mentions, and the only thing he talks about. No wonder Xanatos is so suspicious.
"If you brought them before me now, I'd happily pulverize them on the spot." It's a funny thing, but I while I still believed in Xanatos's truce with the clan, I never doubted that he would love another sparring match with them.
I am surprised that Jon managed to find a piece of stone skin at the Eyrie Building, though. I mean, what with the fights in CITY OF STONE, KINGDOM, and THE GATHERING that little piece must have been on a very remote corner of the Roof not to get picked up by a cleaning crew. (I'm sorry, I don't mean to nit-pick this much, but…well, there it is!).

The gargs run into trouble at each of their respective stakeouts. I did get the little moment where Lex and Broadway point at Brooklyn in answer to the question "Who wants to explain this to Goliath." As for the bit where Demona's particle beam rifle (or whatever) is able to puncture glass and an entire van, but fails to go through Brooklyn's car door shield…I can only guess that her first few shots had drained her rifle's power cell. It's not much of an explanation but it works for me.
I love the animation of Brooklyn and Demona's fight; it's short but the play of lighting when they're struggling in the foreground and the fire's burning in the background is just wonderful.

But while the Trio and Bronx are dealing with Demona, Goliath, Hudson and Angela face the new threat. As soon as the Hunter's appeared, and I noticed there were two guys and one gal, I pretty much figured out who they were. It is interesting, for me, to compare and contrast their suits. The predominant color scheme is black and red, with a bit of blue thrown in here in there. Actually Jon and Jason's suits are almost opposites in this regard (some of the pieces of armor the two suits share are blue on Jason's suit, and red on Jon's). Of course, another difference is the manner of gloves on the costumes. Jason is the only one to wear full gloves. Jon wears none, but has full sleeves while Jason goes bare-armed. Robyn has gloves, but they don't cover her fingers, and her upper arms are bare (it leaves me to wonder how worried they were about fingerprints). . Then there are the masks. The men have the same traditional Hunter's mask, but Robyn wears a modified version, with the mouth area bare and the hair free. She shows even more skin, actually, what with her bare midriff and all.
But here I am going over the differences in their wardrobe while they're giving our heroes a really hard time.
The weapons they use against the gargs indicate the time, training, and money they put into their hunt. Seriously, they've probably brought as much technology against the gargs as Xanatos ever did. I'm especially enamored of Raptor, the robotic bird that Jon had and which, unfortunately, gets destroyed and never seen again. I can't say for certain why I like it--it strikes me as a pointlessly complicated hunting implement. Actually, now that I think on it, Raptor is the perfect weapon for Jon--after all, he just tells the thing to attack and then stands passively back while the bird does all his hunting work, as opposed to Jason and Robyn who use their own weapons.

Just before he shoots Angela with the electricity thing, Jason looks at her and narrows his eyes. This leads me to believe that he knew, even before he fired, that she wasn't "the Demon."

Later, in the airship, when one of the Hunter's (Jon, of course) brought up that the "other gargoyles might not be" evil, I was fascinated by this dissension in the ranks, so to speak. I liked that one of the Hunter's was questioning the idea of "all gargoyles" being evil, and I thought that maybe at least one of the Hunter's would end up helping the clan.
Boy, did I pick the wrong Hunter (but that comes later). For now, though, Jason is blinded by his hatred against the gargoyles. Robyn, prudently enough, takes no part in her brothers' "disagreement."

I wasn't quite sure if you guys were going to kill off Angela or not. On the one hand, I felt that you guys had too much development invested in her character to just kill her off like that. Besides, there was no way BS&P would allow it. On the other hand, you guys had surprised me in the past….
And you surprised me here, too, when Goliath swore vengeance on the Hunter's while glaring into the camera, saying, "…and I will KILL them." At that moment, I fully realized how rarely the word "kill" is used in American animation. GARGOYLES only used it once before, to my knowledge (DEADLY FORCE, where Broadway tells Goliath that he "can't kill" Dracon). Consequently, its use here had the desired effect; I knew that something had snapped inside Goliath, and he meant to do precisely what he said. Chilling.

All in all, an excellent start that left me eager for the next episode.

Blaise writes...

POSSESION

(Note: My ramble is a little patchier this time, most likely the result of spreading it out over a few days).

Puck gives Alex his first magic lesson, and Coldstone gets his personality problem resolved.

The opening in the Himalayas is pretty neat (I love how Coldstone takes out one robot by burrowing through the snow), and, personally, I'm kind of glad you guys didn't do the "Yeti" thing with him here (of course, I have no idea what would have happened in your lost "comic book story" set in the Himalayas (and all you've told us about it so far is that it takes place during the World Tour and features Coldstone) so I have no idea if you were going to do the "Coldstone-pretending-to-be-Yeti" thing or not).
One thing I noticed: the Steel Clan's POV shots are very different from how they were in the first season (there it was green night vision, here it's some sort of red vision). I guess I kind of like the style of the first season better there--just a personal preference.
One thing of note, this is the last appearance of the Steel Clan robots and Xanatos's gargoyle armor in the whole series.

Loved the "Bewitched" reference. Also loved the "gargoyle-teddy bear."
It would have been nice if the mention of the opera "Otello" had made it into the episode, but there's only so much time available.

Somehow, I kind of figured out who "Goliath" and "Hudson" really were before they revealed themselves. Although Puck may do a better Goliath than Proteus, he still doesn't sound quite like Goliath (and he smiles way too much). And, as soon as I guessed who "Goliath" was, it was fairly easy to deduce who "Hudson" was (and notice that he didn't say a word at all the whole time).

Actually, I was able to guess a lot about where things were going, especially when I heard about the "soul transference" bit. And as soon as Coldstone started working without any of his three souls, I kind of figured Puck was the one pulling the strings. Lex getting possessed I hadn't expected, but as soon as it happened, there was really only one character it could have been. And when Coldsteel and Coldfire were revealed, I kind of figured what the ending would be.

So, for me, this became more about character than plot. It was also a great way to listen to the actors performing a different character with the same voice. Kudos to the cast members for their wonderful work.
I, too, noticed that Desdemona seemed more reluctant than Othello to remain in their new bodies. Here, as in HIGH NOON and even in LEGION, she sometimes takes on the role of conscience and voice of reason for Othello. She compliments her mate very well.
And, as in those previous episodes (and RE-AWAKENING) Othello shows himself to be a little more selfish. In the end he tends to make the right decision (albeit with a fair amount of prodding). Actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if most people in the world aren't like Othello.

Great little moment: Othello/Broadway: "I had forgotten the warm touch of your hand…the sweet scent of your hair."
Angela/Desdemona: "But…it is not my hair."

And then Iago/Brooklyn arrives to whisper in their ears (isn't that what all Iagos do?). I love his little "Oh, yes, that's a plus" after Othello/Broadway talks about "the evil one" being gone.
Another note: at both the Clock Tower and Lady Liberty, when Broadway/Othello mentions "the evil one," the camera is on Brooklyn. I just noticed that here.

I love it how the ensorcelled Bronx just trots away and plops down next to the bound and gagged Lexington. It's just one of those cases where you can almost feel Lex's frustration.

Looking over your outline, Greg, I find myself rereading the ultimately discarded scene of Iago/Brooklyn hooking Lex up to a death trap and "telling his evil plot." Mostly just because of the brief bit of how he would "use his position as Goliath's right hand to destroy Goliath and rule the clan." I thought this extra bit of plotting was rather interesting because we know so little about Iago's goals beyond taking Desdemona.
Truth be told, he has always intrigued me because, in many ways he is the only "natural-born" evil gargoyle we've met so far in the series. I mean, we see Demona's tragic past and how she was "made a villain" so to speak; Yama was only misguided and foolish, but tries to repent; and Thailog (and even the rest of the clones) were more-or-less created to be what they became. Iago is the only gargoyle we know of who has been evil without any real explanation and for this reason (as well as the fact that he was a villain in their "old life" along with the Archmage) he fascinates me. I would have loved to see more of him in the "DARK AGES" spin-off, and I am hoping to see more of Coldsteel in the comic.

Overall though, comparing the outline to the episode, I'm kind of glad you guys just simplified beats 15 and 16. That added business about the Coldstone shell developing its own personality--while admittedly intriguing--was a bit superfluous (especially since we the audience already know Puck's behind it).

I love Lex's groan, "Twice in one night…". I feel sorry for the poor little guy-ensorcelled, jumped from behind, trussed up, and jumped from behind again! And after all that, he gets possessed himself! Of course, in this case, the new tenant is a pleasant one.

Iago/Brooklyn: "I'm sure she'll be heartbroken at first, but these new bodies should help ease the pain." For me, that is one of the most suggestive lines in the series. And hey, Iago knows how to say "good-bye" in French!

"By the Dragon!" This is the closest we get to any sort of "oath" in the series (well…there's "Jalapena" but I'm not counting that… ;-)). I still wonder what exactly this phrase is referencing.

Alex/Lex unties Hudson and Goliath, dropping them on their heads. Goliath's response: "Well, that's one way to do it." This stands out to me because it's one of the few times Goliath makes a joke or other humorous statement.

Othello/Broadway confronts Iago/Brooklyn by saying, "Brooklyn's body does not belong to you. Give it back!"
A rather hypocritical statement since he himself was seriously considering keeping Broadway's body a bare few moments ago. Now that I think of it, I wonder if Iago might not be referencing that when he retorts, "So that I can return to cyberspace or fade away into nothing? Is that the choice *you* were leaning towards?" Othello/Broadway looks like he's about to hit him, but then just drops him instead.

I love how Iago complains about Brooklyn's "fighting skills." If Iago's in control, shouldn't that mean it's Iago's fighting skills that are being used?

I was very pleased you guys got Coldsteel and Coldfire's voice-actors (Xander Berkeley and C.C.H. Pounder) to do the one or two lines each character had in their actual voice.

Brooklyn: "And this 'scrawny gargoyle' will be waiting!"
Reading over the outline, I was pleased you guys decided to have Brooklyn remember the experience. His line "I remember every creepy thing that jerk made me do" kind of highlights the sort of violation he must have felt at that. As a result, I'm left wondering how much the others remember of their possessions. Lex obviously seems to remember being inhabited by Alex, but what about Broadway and Angela? They did seem at least mildly surprised to "come back to themselves" while in an embrace (not that they seemed upset…).

Lex about Alex passing his lesson: "He had a little help."
I always took this to mean that Alex used Lex's language facilities (as well as motor skills) to properly cast the spell. But I wonder how well Alex understood what he was saying. As a child, I learned the Pledge of Allegiance word-for-word, but for years they were only a collection of words in a certain order. I never really thought about what they actually said. I wonder if it's the same for Alex and the spell.

I love Goliath's tired "Let's go home."

Going back to the outline again, beat 17 has Xanatos being momentarily surprised and/or confused by Owen's explanation that "the Coldstone dilemma has been solved." I never saw that in the actual episode myself. Actually, I've wondered if Xanatos's earlier "Bewitched" reference might not have been just a long shot by Xanatos of planting an idea in Owen's head. Of course, maybe I'm just giving Xanatos way to much credit on that score.

This is a good, solid ep all-around with great characters and performances.

Blaise writes...

THE RECKONING

And once more, on with the Rambling!

I always found the revelation that this episode was originally supposed to be a two-part season finale kind of interesting. There certainly is a lot here that would work perfectly for a season finale (a mass battle between our heroes and their clones/counterparts, the actual meeting between Demona and Angela), and I will personally admit that I would have LOVED for this to have been a two-parter (there's just so much crammed into this one episode!). On the other hand, it is missing an element that I would consider important to any GARGOYLES season finale: Xanatos.
Sure, he would have been a bit superfluous to this ep, but considering that the season began with him as the "main villain" it seems only natural to me that he should play some part in any finale the season might have.

Anyway, onto the episode itself….

An interesting aspect about the episode's opening shot is that it changes to a POV shot through binoculars. Now, just who was spying on our heroes here? I would have to guess, Thailog, myself. Demona's already encased in her "clever tin can" robbing the Golden Cup (you'd think the government people running the place would realize that hiding in plain sight isn't working anymore).

Demona's exo-frame has a very unique design to it--bubble cockpit, hole for her tail, etc. It's also interesting just for the fact that this is the first time she's used it, and I find myself wondering why. Up until now, she's used spells, a poison dart gun, particle beam cannons, and occasionally a mace. Now here's the exo-frame. Part of the plan, maybe? Oh well, it makes for some great action.

Animation nit: Demona electrocutes Brooklyn, and the little electric aura stays around Demona for the remainder of the fight without seeming to affect anyone else. It is a bit distracting.

I have to admit, I did misread Angela's concern for Brooklyn here, a little bit. I realize I've used the excuse of "falling back on expectations for animated action/adventure shows" before, but it really is my chief explanation for misreading things like this.

I loved the tidbit about gargoyle culture concerning their punishments (nice to finally have that). And I was pleased that Brooklyn was the one who came up with a place to keep Demona, and I knew that it would involve the Mutates. But I didn't know it was the Labyrinth. Why? Because I had still not seen THE CAGE or KINGDOM by this point and had no idea it even existed. Consequently, this was my first view of the "new" Maggie, Claw and Fang (I had seen "new" Talon in UPGRADE). Somehow, I recognized that they were in the old Cyberbiotics underground lab. I also wasn't surprised to discover that one of the Mutates was a bad guy (I saw this coming since the scene in METAMORPHOSIS where the as-yet-unnamed-Fang indicated his enjoyment of his new body). Still, it always drove me crazy that I had missed out on those stories during their first run. Ah, well….

One thing that jumped out at me on this viewing was Elisa's line, "Do you know what you're committing yourself to?" in reference to guarding Demona. It is kind of easy to miss the sheer enormity of the task they are setting for themselves (guarding an immortal sorceress around the clock).

Angela wants to take the first watch--understandable, especially since she hasn't had the same experiences with Demona the others have. Goliath, just as understandably, tries to dissuade her, which only makes her angry. In the end, Hudson showcases why he's the "wise one" by giving Angela the first watch, but with an admonition that Demona "is capable of anything." And it is that warning that Angela flashes back to over THREE MONTHS LATER when she and her clan are facing certain death because of Demona.

When Demona awakens she leaps at Angela and latches onto the bars of her prison. Angela is understandably taken aback--Demona does indeed look ferocious. She's literally climbing the bars, snarling, wings flapping…but her eyes are not glowing. A subtle hint, perhaps, that this part, at least, is an act.
I do find myself thinking that Demona's disbelief over Angela's identity is more real than feigned, even if Sevarius has already clued her in about Angela's parentage. As you've said, Greg, knowing something and experiencing it are two different things.
At this point, Angela actually perks up and starts to tell Demona about Avalon, only for Demona to rant about humans stealing away "our children." Angela tries to disabuse her of that idea and explains that the Princess is a part of her clan "just as you are." It's almost sad how optimistic Angela is about Demona. I can almost hear Angela thinking to herself, "No matter what she's done, I know I'll be the one to redeem her."
Demona, starts trying to win over Angela, even trying to guilt her into it ("If you are *truly* my daughter…").
There is something a little melodramatic about all this…which makes it a wonderful moment when Fang interrupts the mood and observes "You chicks are better than soaps!"

I love the way Fang counts the days.

Demona unleashes the mosquito and suddenly the rest of the mosquito attacks from earlier in the episode take on a more ominous tone.
I loved seeing Sevarius again (why not, it's more Tim Curry!), but Thailog! Ah, that magnificent bastard. On my first viewing, I realized by this point that we would be taking on the clones of the rest of the clan, and was quite pleased by the prospect. A little…"shadow-boxing," shall we say, is always fun.

Actually, it's amazing how calm Sevarius seems around Thailog here, considering that the gargoyle tried to kill him the previous year. Amazing what a briefcase full of money can do. Of course, Sevarius offers the fruits of his experience about "programming" the clones, "Keep it simple. You don't want to end up with another you."
And during this time, Angela is trying to talk to Demona about the latter's crimes. I love Demona's line here: "How can you judge me? You have been hiding on a magical island while I have been living in the real world." Demona may be in the wrong about a LOT of things, but that is a pretty good point.

Demona starts to change (into a human), Fang rushes to watch and after it's over remarks, "Kinky." One would think he'd be used to it by now seeing as he's been her neighbor for FIVE WEEKS!! I guess, like Elisa's reaction to the gargs' awakenings, he never gets tired of it.

Now, I have to dwell on something about this episode that is real easy to miss. It takes place over the course of THREE MONTHS. That's actually a fair amount of time if you think about it. I find myself wondering about Demona and Angela's conversations, what things were like with the other gargoyles when they stood guard (particularly Goliath, Brooklyn and Hudson), Demona's full reaction to the Mutates (man, I would LOVE to see that) and about any of the adventures going on topside.
A lot can happen in three months…then again, a lot of nothing can also happen in three months.

Anyway, eventually the "breakout" occurs and even Fang gets freed. I love his reactions when he thinks Demona's going to fry him. Not just his lines (which are good and already transcribed elsewhere) but also the fact that he tries to hide under his bed sheet! And when Demona frees him, saying that "he's a fool but he might be useful" Fang immediately pipes up, "I can work with that!"

I am intrigued by what appears to be continued tension between Goliath and Talon. When the two track the escapees to the fun house, Goliath tells Talon to stay there while he goes to get reinforcements (I doubt Goliath realized he sounded like he was giving an order). Talon doesn't seem too happy about this arrangement, though he does make the best of it (scouting the place out). When I first saw this, I had left Talon still blaming the gargoyles for his mutation; so seeing them on friendly terms was a bit of a jump for me. This moment sort of "threw me back" as it were to the previous dynamic.

Anyway, our heroes make the classic horror movie mistake of splitting up to enter the not really deserted fun house, and they pay the price.

The clones themselves are a unique bunch in that they are not exact copies of the heroes, and I'm not just referring to coloring here. Burbank looks to have slightly broader shoulders and a narrower waist than Hudson, in addition to more hair and a longer beard (and a mace instead of a sword). Hollywood (and I just KNEW Broadway's clone would be named Hollywood) seems a bit larger than Broadway, and all the clones have bits and pieces of armor that the originals don't have.
Beyond that, the new clones are even different than Thailog. While Thailog may have different skin, hair, and even eye coloring (red instead of white corneas) than Goliath, his pupils are a natural black, his teeth a natural white, and his tongue and mouth a natural red/pink color. The new clones, however, have black teeth (indicative of a black skeleton), off-white pupils (indicative to me, at least, that they might literally see the world differently) and even discolored mouths. In this way, they are even more "freakish" than Thailog. I suppose it has to do with the fact that Thailog's gestation period was nearly a year, while these guys were rushed through in about three months or so.
But I digress….

The good guys are captured, and then shackled where they regain consciousness. Apparently, Thailog and Demona didn't want our heroes dead right away. Demona obviously wanted to show off her "new clan" (and turn Angela towards her side), while Thailog, I have come to believe, was testing Demona. After all, Angela didn't have to be first, and Thailog's little revelation that Demona knew about Angela since the beginning seemed to be a little too informative for it to have been accidental. This of course incenses Angela, who shows that she takes betrayal about as well as either of her parents.
"I hate you." Angela's eyes even glowed while she said it. And it really hurts Demona, who nevertheless will still not let Thailog kill her.

Delilah is revealed, and she is perhaps the most "normal" looking clone we have seen so far. I mean, not only are her teeth, mouth, and pupils the proper colors, even the corneas of her eyes are white! She looks more natural than Thailog, in other words. Since her gestation was the same as the rest of the new clones, I can only guess that Elisa's human DNA had something to do with this.
Leaving that aside for the moment, Delilah is a VERY attractive mixture of her two "mothers," and her very presence has offered us, the fans, endless speculations about Demona's reaction to her (a hybrid of herself and that most hated human) and Thailog's reasoning in creating her (a hybrid of the two loves of Goliath's life). I also love hearing Salli Richardson doing a gargoyle roar.

The worm turns, or in this case Demona does, and sets the heroes free while she goes after Thailog (who manages to do fairly well at first considering who he's up against). The rest of the heroes mix and match their enemies-the only "counterparts" who face off against each other are Talon and Fang (who inadvertently start the fire). An interesting bit here is that, while Talon's electric blasts are the usual blue/white color all the Mutates' blasts have been up to this point, Fang's are a more red/orange color. Not that I'm complaining, I actually kind of like the distinction from an aesthetic point of view (it's kind of like the color-coded lightsabers).

There are actually some fun, comical moments with the "clone wars." Hollywood's expression just before he crashes into the "test your strength" game, and Burbank and Brentwood's crashing into each other (it doesn't just work on robots!) are particular highlights (as well as Brooklyn's rather vehement "It's all over you…FORGERY!" to Malibu).
I do wish we had been able to see more of Angela and Delilah's "cat fight." What can I say; I can be a shallow guy sometimes.

Eventually, our good guys win, though Demona and Thailog do a "did they die?" disappearing act. The clones (who have some kind of slight reverb to their voice) are lost without the one their programming tells them to obey, and the gargs aren't comfortable around them, so Talon takes them in. This makes perfect sense, seeing as how he has turned the Labyrinth into a homeless shelter, and he promises to teach them to think for themselves, "and use verbs" (a nice little bit, that).
Maybe it's because I like Brooklyn, but I was always a little disappointed that Malibu never got any actual lines.

Angela and Goliath have their moment of doubt over Demona's fate, and Angela feels awful that "I hate you" may be the last thing she ever said to her mother. Now, I admit that, since I knew Demona was going to survive, I didn't quite get into this sentiment as much as maybe you guys would have liked me to, but I did like that Goliath mentioned that Demona's love for Angela was "the first sign of goodness that she has shown in a long, long time." Even "a new beginning," perhaps.

This is a really great episode, and I hope my (extremely overlong) ramble does it justice. I just wish it could have been a two-parter--that is the only real complaint I have with this ep, and that only exists because I found out it was originally supposed to be such.

E J writes...

I don't usually respond-ramble, but I feel kind of compelled to now that we're running out of show. But also because the Hunter's Moon tryptich is probably my favorite episode of the series.

Unfortunately, I first saw the show twelve years ago (I was ten), and I've watched these episodes a million times since then, so it's difficult to know what I was thinking the time around. It's like the Empire Strikes Back problem; you really can't go back to not knowing how that one ends.

Probably why I'm looking forward to Gargoyles #3.

What impresses me most about Hunter's Moon is how it takes several different storylines to their logical extremes. The last thing I expected in the final episode was to see a vengeful, homocidal Goliath. Very ballsy of you guys to break out a new side of the lead protagonist in the final episode of the series. I've certainly always respected the willingness of the series to demonstrate that these are dynamic characters. I do remember what I was thinking the first time I heard Goliath's last line in part 1, and it blew my mind. To be honest, it starts as a standard empty-threatish cliffhanger line, and I mostly expected it to end with something benign like "And I will make them pay." In fact, that's exactly what I expected next. It is always appreciated when television manages to surprise, so kudos on that last line. Superb.

Demona's plan is also the logical extension of what she's tried to do in already, first to eradicate the humans at Wyvern then to destroy New York. Just like Goliath's concept of what he should protect keeps growing, so does Demona's concept of what she should destroy. I love it.

A final episode usually has a fair amount of hype to live up to, in terms of both scope and closure. (I've always thought of TNG as an example of one that did it right, but that might just be my opinion. I'm also a fan of The Fugitive finale.) Hunter's Moon raised the stakes LOGICALLY to their extreme, so it manages to feel like an episode of the series and a worthy finale at the same time.

Twiggess writes...

My "Hunter's Moon Part 1 Ramble"
This is the only HM I've seen ( I don't know if any of you remember, but ABC family stopped showing Gargoyles after HM2-talk about a mean cliff hanger for the curfue-challenged!)
Me and my friend Danielle have always refered to what you called "the barn" scene as the apple scene, due to Demona's lovely table manners (yuck!)
I saw this one before City of Stone, but it was still very easy to follow. I noticed, however, in this flashback she's seems more middle aged than she did in CS. (Oh, the wrinkles. The stress of her life as a guilt-ridden refugee does NOT cause her to age very well, does it? I recall yelling something along the lines of "Macbeth, Macbeth, where for art thou, Macbeth?! Come forth and give this poor soul thy youth so my eyes can stop BLEEDING!" at the screen.)
Kids can be so cruel.
Danielle (who had already seen every episode) pointed Elisa in her wig before I really registered her. I think I suspected, though.
I still remember the commercials with "concerned citizens with wings" tagline. Oh, for the good old days!
Being preteen girls, we were really more concerned about how hot Jason was to really establish whether or not he was evil. I think Dani had already told me, but until I discovered TGS we never realized that Robyn was the girl Hunter, so I can't be sure. (don't take this too personally-sometimes I wonder what Gargoyles Danielle has been watching. When I first started to pump her about "Sanctuary", she told me Thailog had put a spell on Demona so that she would have amnesia during the day and she actually fell in love with Macbeth, only to remember him when she turned into a gargoyle after the wedding and pounce on him. ???? I think she may have just been trying to save my feelings or something, since at that time I thought McB and D were meant to be.)
In any case, we were too busy quibbling over who got Jason to really pay much attention to the scene (Danielle: Dude, he's so cute, I want him! Me: But you already called dibs on Xanatos! You can't have both! Dani (rolls eyes): Oh, fine, whatever. But you know he gets shot, right? Me: SO?)
Your the Greg Master. If gargess is a word, so is denially. :)
Okay, Brimstone Inc? DIERDRE (is that even French?) Greg, honey, can I just whole-heartedly thank you for having these names changed? I don't know, I guess it's because I'm so used to Nightstone and Dominique but both of the other one's just seem so- dry and corprate. Which I guess is the point, but it just didn't SUIT her (or Thailog, for that matter.) Plus I really love the name Dominique Destine. It's so brillant in it's irony- Demona always tries to dominate her destiny, but destiny just always seems to dominate HER.
Cut to Robyn. I remember this scene vividly, as it is was my first time seeing Demona in her human form. (Danielle: That's Demona. *camera angle moves* Me-pointing at Robyn-:The blonde one? *camera angle moves back* Danielle-pointing at DD-: No, you idiot, the redhead!)
Opps. Danielle and I both loved Robyn. Many a dull afternoon was spent making up stories about a forbidden corprate romance between she and Owen, given both of their stiff demeanors. I was crushed when I found out she wasn't really a mild-mannered assistant. I even thought for awhile that you picked the name Robyn after Puck's alias in "A MidSummer Night's Dream." It still works out pretty good, I think. (Did you ever notice the whole Robin Goodfellow thing?)
One line that I loved that you left out of your ramble was when Dominique was threatening Rutherford (is that his name? I'm not sure where I got that from, but I hear it referenced from time to time.) She dangles him by the neck (unless my memory is exaggerating) and yells at him for some screw up or other, glances over her shoulder at the setting sun and says, "You're lucky I treat my employees with dignity and respect."
This right before she throws him bodily from the room. I love it. Classic Demona. I was cracking up so hard I barely remember the transformation, just a ripped suit and her panting, "Do it yourself." Commercial.
Totally never thought they'd kill off Angie (um, I believe Dani might have mentioned something earlier about that whole "CPR- the gift that keeps on giving" line before I watched this, but I can't remember. If I hadn't had prior knowledge, I still don't think I would have thought her dead.)
I think this was one of the first 10 episodes I'd ever seen (surely one of the 1st 20), so I didn't completely understand what a big deal it was to see Goliath crave vengence like that. They attacked his daughter, and given what we normally see in cartoons it seemed like a natural course of action to seek retrubtion (spelling, yet again)
But of course, Gargoyles is NOT an ordinary cartoon. And in hindsight, oh boy- POWERFUL words, man. They had to be spoken. At some point, Goliath NEEDED to be confronted with the same emotional trails that corrupted Demona. So he could rise above them, and become a better garg for it.
Like Demmie goes on to say, they're really not that different, when it comes down to it.
Which kinda gives you both fear (for him) and hope (for her.)
P.s.: Saw "F for Facades" last night. Tell your brother kudos for me. It rocked! Hope the Weisman bloodline continues to thrive in writing and more. :)

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "Hunter's Moon Part One", Greg. Here are a few comments on it.

I liked the opening flashback with Gillecomgain, filling in a little more about him - such as his very unpleasant father. And we see Gillecomgain vowing to wipe out the entire gargoyle race (over a few facial scars that a single gargoyle gave him - this is a definite case of "a life for an eye", so to speak).

One of the things that I like about "Hunter's Moon" is the feature that you mentioned - those deliberate hearkenings back to "Awakening". (And Season One in general as well - Elisa gets saddled with a new partner by Chavez and is initially less than thrilled about it, there are mentions of the Daily Tattler and the urban legend about alligators in the sewers, the robbery that Elisa and Jason break up is in the same area where Dracon's gang stole the particle beam accelerators from Xanatos at the start of "Deadly Force", etc.) I liked the hearkening back with the gargoyles and Elisa again rescuing the yuppies (and a few other familiar faces this time) from those three street thugs - and the rescuees being ungrateful as usual. (I also get a kick out of Margot saying "Great idea, Brendan. Ride the subway, meet interesting people." Well, they did get to meet a lot of interesting people, many of whom had wings.)

I didn't recognize Elisa until her blonde wig came off - and I'd already seen that wig in "Turf". I really need to be more observant.

One tidbit in Demona's interview with Robyn that I get a kick out of is that Robyn's references are from Edinburgh, Florence, and the Sorbonne - and the flashbacks of the three parts of this story are set in Scotland, Florence, and Paris.

I did get the brief visual joke of Broadway and Lexington looking accusingly at Brooklyn (and nice echo back to the incident with Vinnie's motorcycle).

One of my favorite details in Part One is the Hunters' robot falcon - pity that we didn't get to see it again.

I can no longer remember what my initial thoughts were about Jason when he showed up - or if I even connected him (or Robyn or Jon) with the Hunters in Part One. I did pick up on the way that the Canmores' aliases all began with a hard C, the same as their real surname. (Jumping ahead - that's why I suspected right away, when I first saw "The Journey", that Castaway was linked to the Canmores, the moment that I heard his name.)

One thing that I *definitely* remember was my response to Goliath's vow at the end of Part One to kill the Hunters. I was absolutely horrified at him - so much so that I was worrying far more about it than over whether Angela was going to live or not.

Now I'm looking forward to your rambles on Parts Two and Three....

Twiggess writes...

I'll try to keep this short, as I kinda already gave my 2 cents yesterday.
I didn't catch the Star Trek reference at the time, b/c I hadn't heard of that episode. Now that I've seen clips of it, I realize it was a brillant (for want of a better term) spinoff. Although I think over all the Angie-Desie-Broad-Cold kiss was better than Kirk and Uhura (spelling, sorry- that chick who voiced Diane! That'll work!)'s. I mean, I haven't seen the whole Star Trek episode, so I don't know what the alien's relationship was like, but those 2 were so freakin SHAKY. They looked like they were having a seizure out of passion, or something.
(I am sorry if this offends any Treky's out there. Like I said, I haven't seen anything but a 5 minute clip of the kiss. I'm much more of a Next Generation gal, anyway. Two words: MARINA SIRTIS. Plus it's really fun to see "Xanatos" and "Demona" flirting.)
I'm assuming you left Ms. S out of the TNG voice credits in your ramble cuz she wasn't in the episode. I'm cool with that, and I realize that if you gave credit to all the Star Trek voices, we would be here all day.
So yeah. I'm not really a big Cold trio fan (although I am a big fan of Coldstone's icecream-sorry, couldn't resist! I think of Micheal Dorn whenever I go in that creamery now!), but this episode was okay. And I was really excited that I finally got to see Angela (even if she WASN'T white with red hair like I always imagined. Don't ask me WHY.)
Oh and one little confession: Before I could remember what her name was, I used to call Coldfire "Starfish Face." I sincerely apologize for this crudeness. I never really got a good enough look at her, and I thought her horns kinda made her look like she had a starfish on her head. I really hope the animators and fellow fans forgive me for this, as when I got a better view of her in "City of Stone" and "Legion", I realized she was actually quite pretty.
OK, so that's my confession for the day (again, REALLY REALLY sorry!) Now I better go before some random Treky or Desdemona fan gets some vitual tar and feathers for me!
P.S.: Was it ever confusing to have both a Demona AND a Desdemona? I realize that other than in the first "City of Stone" they never had an episode together (CF wasn't in "Reawakening, was she?) but it's still seems like kind of a nusiance to me.
P.P.S: Have i mentioned I'M SORRY?!

Abby writes...

I enjoyed your ramble on "Possession." This episode holds a special place for me as one of the very first I saw. In your "pre-ramble" you mention the complexity of this one - imagine the confusion to someone unfamiliar with the characters! But this complexity is part of what drew me to the series and why I still enjoy it so much. I still catch new things when I watch this episode.

I did, however, immediately notice the "Bewitched" reference as well as the parallels to the Star Trek body-switching episode (which helped me better understand what was going on, especially on repeat viewings). I'd wondered if the inspiration for the switching triangle came from Trek; thanks for the clarification! (Incidentally, that Trek episode was called "Return to Tomorrow." I much prefer "Possession" - it's a much better description of the action, and made me think of that old line "possession is nine-tenths of the law" when the characters were tempted to keep their new bodies).

I also prefer the "Gargoyles" resolution to the dilemma of where to put the newly-transferred personalities. In Trek they go off into oblivion, having decided our species isn't ready for them yet. But "Possession" offers the prospect of future stories with these characters.

I enjoyed seeing Alex's winged plushie and the expressions on Broadway's and Angela's faces when Othello and Desdemona leave them mid-embrace.

Other one liners I like are from Michael Dorn (Puck-as-Coldstone): "I trust you have no more questions" and "Wouldn't you like to know."

Thanks for the ramble.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for your "Possession" ramble, Greg. (Just think - all that you've got left is "Hunter's Moon" and you're done with Season Two!) A few comments.

That opening with Xanatos hunting Coldstone down in the Himalayas makes more sense to me now that I know about that Marvel Comic story that you were going to write but never got to do.

The first time that I saw the episode, I initially thought that what Xanatos and Owen were trying to do (and needed more than technology to do) was repairing Coldstone after the damage done in the recent battle, but afterwards I understood that their goal was transferring Desdemona and Iago to Coldfire and Coldsteel. (And I agree that it would be like Xanatos to say "Chin up" to Coldstone while his head is disconnected from the rest of him.)

I like Alex's winged teddy bear, too.

I agree that Coldfire is a much better name than Goldfire; it certainly fits the pattern with Coldstone and Coldsteel in the way that Goldfire wouldn't. (It even makes me wonder how "Goldfire" was even a candidate to begin with.)

Another thing that I picked up on in later viewings was the consequences of Brooklyn's "Me three - except that you don't need three" line.

One of the big elements for me in the episode is how the voice actors demonstrate their versatility (as you pointed out); instead of taking the customary approach in cartoons of "when people switch minds, they also switch voice actors", we here got to hear, say, Bill Faggerbakke and Brigitte Bako altering their delivery to sound more like Michael Dorn and C. C. Pounder. And it was a very admirable performance.

One of my favorite bits: Puck-as-Coldstone saying, "Naughty, naughty, sneaking up like that on Uncle Coldstone". (As much from how Dorn delivered it as from the actual words.)

And I think that we can all agree that this is just the way that Puck *would* educate Alex.

Again, thanks for the ramble.

Twiggess writes...

Ah, good ol' Possession. Oi, what a headache THAT was. Still, there's a little special place in my garg-lovin heart for this episode, as it was the first I ever saw with Angela in it (I started watching Gargoyles in summer 2004. Techincally the first WHOLE episode I ever saw was "Outfoxed", although I remember seeing the scene in "Long Way till Morning" where Hutson renounces his leadership to Goliath while channel surfing some years previous. "Outfoxed" was on at night, while about 2 weeks later "Posession" was on ABC Family on Saturday morning, to explain the long episode gap.)
Anyway. I was scratching my head a bit while watching this episode, but I thought over all the sentiment was sweet. And, in hindsight, the whole Brook/Iago thing was a good metaphor for Brooklyn's jealousy of Broadway and Angela. Nicely done.
Of course, it's always wonderful to see the Puck in action ;) I wish we could have seen more of that little guy in the series. Particularly along side Demona (amazingly, I'm not just saying this as an excuse have more Demona eps!) I mean, those two TOTALLY stole the show in "The Mirror." Yes, yes, the sexual tension between E and G was all very lovely but COME ON! That's like EVERYBODY's favorite episode (which I didn't get to ramble on, so sorry I'm losing focus on "possession.")
ANYWAY (pardon my short attention span), I don't really remember this episode too well since I only saw it once 2 years ago and I was too busy trying to figure out what the heck was going on and who was in who's body to pick up on the minor details (alright, plus I was secretly hoping Demona would show up at some random moment, that way if I didn't understand anything at least I'd get to see her. I didn't know about "The Reckoning" at that point. Sue me!) I do remember liking Xanatos' "wiggle your nose" line, which I still think is funny. I had heard from Danielle, my gargoyle mentor who got me into the show in the first place, about Puck but like Angie I don't think I had seen him prior to this episode.
Okay, to sum up, great episode, great series, created by a great guy named Greg (isn't iliteration fun? Particularly when it's spelled incorrectly?) and I'm hoping for a GREAT comeback! SPREAD THE WORD ( to quote X in "Reawakening", "I've ALWAYS wanted to say that.")

Harvester of Eyes writes...

Hi, Greg.

I just read your ramble on "The Reckoning," which is one of my favorite episodes, and just wanted to contribute my two cents. Ever since "Sanctuary," I had been wondering what would happen when Demona and Angela met again, and I'm happy to say that this episode did not disappoint. For an episode with a very large supporting cast (that also introduced several new characters to boot), it carried itself amazingly well.

It flowed wonderfully, and as you pointed out, contained a lot of memorable lines. Jim Belushi is not my favorite actor, but I loved him as the voice of Fang. I think Fang just might be one of his best roles. His delivery of the one-liners was superb.

If I had to pick a favorite visual moment, it would have to be the shot of Demona, Thailog, and the clones right before the end of the second act. It was like looking at a negative photographic image of Goliath's clan. Very chilling.

A few things I found interesting: Thailog and Sevarius in the same room together. I suppose it's not too surprising, since mentally, Thailog was programmed with Xanatos's slant on life. Xanatos kept the gargoyles alive because he thought they'd be useful (or I'm just going by what he told Goliath at the end of "City of Stone"). Similarly, I'm wondering if that was Thailog's line of thinking when Sevarius was hired to engineer the clones: the doctor does come in handy.

Also, concerning the relationship between Demona and Angela: I think that Demona does love Angela. But I find it interesting that she told Goliath to save their daughter instead of doing it herself. The thing she seemed more solidly focused on was punishing Thailog, because Thailog had just delivered a double whammy by not only ending their relationship, but also splicing her DNA with the human she seems to hate most. It almost looks like Demona loves revenge more than Angela. I look forward to seeing what happens between them in the comic. Your comments on those three small words were very intriguing.

All in all, a very well-done episode that exceeded my expectations. I will be posting comments on the new comic at a later date, but for now, let me just say thanks, and best of luck with your future endeavors.

KingCobra_582 writes...

The Reckoning. Ah, yes. Great episode, one of my favorites. It was on TV the other morning. Unfortunately, we have satelite and it was storming out when it was on. *grumbles*

Anyway.

There were some great lines present here:

"My clan can beat your clan any day of the week."
"Some of my best friends are half-gargoyle, half-human babes with bad attitudes!"
"It's all over, you... you forgery!"
"Oh, but it's a very clever tin can."
"That doesn't sound like a subway car."

All classics. :-)

When I was younger, I used to stubbornly think that little moment between Brooklyn and Angela meant more then it did. Of course, I know otherwise now.

I loved Thailog's deviousness in this episode. Throwing Delilah in Demona's face, and Demona's reaction. I actually felt bad for Demona for a change. And, of course, I was blown away by her change in mannerisms ("Goliath, save our daughter!") when she actually helped save her former clan. I'd never have seen that coming. Especially after Angela's "I hate you." You always know how to surprise me, Greg.

I was never the biggest fan of Talon, though I never really hated him either. But he really started to come into his own when fighting Fang. Nice. Same for Angela vs. Delilah.

I always had trouble swallowing that the clan believed Demona dead even AFTER they already knew she was immortal, but that's a minor point.

9.5 out of 10 for one of my favorite episodes.

The comic was (is) a great read, also. A lot of people have commented on the art, but it doesn't bother me any. I'm not an art critic by any means, but still. Thanks for the 2 added scenes too. I'm looking forward to issue #2 and beyond. May the comic go on for years. :)

Twiggess writes...

Hi Greg! It's a shame, I know, but due to the unrealistic time Toon Disney has Gargoyles on (not that I'm complaining- i'm just glad it's still on @ all!) I have never actually SEEN the Reckoning. But i've read enough reviews and rambles and pumped my friend who HAS seen it that I feel confident enough to write a TINY little ramble.
I love Fang's lines in this one, and I would just personally like to thank whatever wonderful censor let "Kinky" slip. Cuz let's face it- she is. And I know he's kidding, but I for one would really like to meet his other friends who r 1/2 human 1/2 gargoyle babes. (hey-is this a hint at Delilah???) I'm sure Brooklyn would too :)
I really like the way you "killed off" Demona and Thailog. I'm not sure if you meant it to include this, but I see a lot of symbolism in it. Ah, the rollercoaster that is love, the ups and downs and the telling-her-to-marry-another-guy-for-his-money-ok-now-i'm-fed-up-with-you-now-meet-your-replacents, all ending in a big, beautiful fireball that is a breakup.
Okay. So I'm crazy. But this IS called a RAMBLE right? So it must be okay to get a LITTLE nuts. Besides, like I said, I haven't actually SEEN the episode. Until i saw some pics the other day, I thought they were fighting on top of A MOVING CAR, which is a lot better than wrestling on a track.
But still. I like my theory, and stand by it. I believe Greg has said many times that Thailog is modeled after the "Bastard." And now, he is a bastard in EVERY use of the word. >:) If God forbid my boyfriend ever cheats on me, I know what morbid fantasy I'm going to have first (only of course, he's TIED to the burning rollercoaster, and I'm pointing and laughing from a safe distance away. Am i being 2 morbid? Sorry)
Anyway,I really wish we could see a rematch....with Demona winning and then as soon as he's gone she starts crying. B/c she really thought she loved him.
Or better yet, get some info on who her NEW lovers are (Greg? C'mon, Greg, I know u hear me. PLEASE? Like maybe on Valentine's Day or your anniversary or whichever comes first? Before MY wedding, at least-FYI, i'm a minor-)
Anyway, really wanna see this episode, and it sounds totally awesome
Or, as Fang put it, "Better than soaps!" And just as edictive. ;)

Battle Beast writes...

Ah, The Reckoning. With your ramble, you answred one of my most pondered questions!

Anyway, I LOVE this episode. I've never seen it all the way through; I think it is the only episode I've NEVER seen fully (always came in right at the "tin can" line. But you mentioned that it was the fifth last episode, before possesion and HM?

I've always seen it aired AFTER Posession, though all other episodes were in correct oprder.

The Reckoning sets up the relationship between mother and daughter, develops relationships further between Talon and the Gargoyles, and shows us how naieve (SP?) Demona really is.

Demona didn't learn the Thailog was using her, even back in Paris; she still thinks he loves her. But then again Demona has a one-track mind.

I think Demona finally gets it when - enter stage left - Delilah is introduced by Thailog himself.

From what I understand, the idea of the "clan" was sacred back in 990 AD when there were clans in Scotland. Demona has been so messed up over the centuries so much so that if she calls a bunch of botched clones a "clan" then she really has forgotten what a CLAN truely is.

And of course the great delivery: "Ah, but it's a very clever tin can!" What a great line, like you said.

Tim Curry back as sevarious. Another great performance. His voice is so unique. And he does such a good job in the role.

"How many Gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" That made for a great contest. And some of the responses were way past funny.

It was quite clever to use Californian names simialr to NY names.

Great episode all around.

P.S. Comic's been sold out everywhere I go. Read it 8 or 9 times. Bought 2 copies. Keep up the great work. Better than the Origianl Journey.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "The Reckoning", Greg - and it's a pity that you had to wait half a year to get it up here. A few thoughts of mine about it.

One amusing little piece; when Sevarius started making the clones for Thailog, the first time that I saw this episode, I somehow was briefly expecting (from the combination of the robot mosquito and Sevarius's quip about "a growth industry") that Sevarius was coming up with some sort of giant insects - or something with insect-like components. (And, yes, the Clones make much better sense, especially when I discovered that the mosquito *was* a robot.)

I like the touch of Sevarius saying "Three down and two to go" - a nice subtle way of preparing the audience for the extra clone of Delilah.

One thing about the Clones' names; they reminded me a little of an episode in the first "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" cartoon where the Shredder decided to come up with some mutant frogs to counter the Turtles, and, echoing Splinter's naming the Turtles after his favorite Renaissance artists, named the frogs after *his* favorite historical figures - Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, and Rasputin. I found myself reminded of that with the Clones being named after Los Angeles features as a parallel to the names of Goliath's clan. (Do the Clones' names say anything, I wonder, about what Demona thinks of L.A.?)

I thought that Fang made a great comic-relief figure here - he certainly gets a lot of the best lines. (Regarding the "Kinky" line of his - he should have been glad that Demona wasn't in the same cell with him when he said that!)

It's interesting that "The Reckoning" should have been originally intended as the season finale, since Goliath's line at the end about "a new beginning for us all" sounds very appropriate to an open-ended season finale. But I think that "Hunter's Moon" made a much better season finale. For one thing, it brought in more of the major threads of the series that weren't in "The Reckoning" besides Demona (Goliath and Elisa's feelings about each other, the feud with Xanatos, and human hostility towards gargoyles). I hope that you'll get to ramble on those three episodes soon - after doing "Possession", of course.

Thanks again for the new ramble.

Laura 'ad astra' Sack writes...

I love it when Ask Greg reopens for questions! I know it'll be a few years before this gets read, but it adds to the vibrancy of the fandom.

Unfortunately I didn't get to the Gathering yet again- one of these days. Doesn't gall me as much as missing the last one in NYC, but at least I have my memories of the first two.

I looked through the new posts to see what others were saying about the comic. (There is less of a chance of saying something that has been said to death, but I don't want to lose the habit of checking first.) By in large the reviews are very good and I would have to agree. I couldn't get to my comic shop till Friday, but I read it and went through it with a fellow fan in great detail on the phone before sundown. (The rest of my weekly reading had to wait.) I won't say it was perfect, I had some serious concerns, but I was really happy.

First off, I must note this- The back says that the colorist is new to the field- what a fantastic start! There is nothing there that even hinted to anything novice like.

I have to be a little harder on the artist. It almost seems like the style switched halfway through. The first half struck me as more stylized, a little reminisent of craypas or those sidewalk chalk artists that wow you with what they can do. The second half was looser, even letting you see the pencil marks. My druthers would ask for the second style. The artist seemed far more comfortable with it. While the first page and sevel other panels throughout the begining were beautiful, other were rather awkward and boxy, especially in the none action scenes. (The artist drew some just plain fantastic fantastic action sceens.)

I did have a small quibble with the text...(though I feel like slime mentioning it here). Some of the lines that were lifted directly from the show didn't flow as well without Keith David's sonority. Goliath's formal speaking style sometimes needs that resonance. I have no fear of that being a problem in later books- all the sceens that started life in print read just fine while still conjuring that voice. I loved Goliath's 'discussion' with the shotgun wielding man. Though I have to ask- who has a shotgun in NYC?

Looking forward to issue 2- I do hope that independant Publisher doesn't mean Independate time frame :}

Blaise writes...

TURF

I knew that at some point the Trio would fight over Angela, and I was kind of worried about how much dignity they would lose in so doing.
I suppose I was more disappointed with Brooklyn's behavior than with Broadway or Lexington's. After all, he is my favorite character, and I think anyone would find it aggravating to see his or her favorite character behaving like a goofball.
Not to mention the fact that he's Second-in-Command, and therefore should behave responsibly and competently in his office. The first time he splits them up so that he and Angela can be alone...well, if he really tried, I think he could have waffled a decent rationale for that decision. The second time however was just plain silly of him. ONE gargoyle at the Clocktower to wait for Goliath might have been wise, but not two of them.
However, more than all of that, when I first saw this episode, I had seen neither THE CAGE nor KINGDOM, and thus had no idea what had happened with Brooklyn's crush on Maggie. The resulting lack of closure actually made Brooklyn's behavior here seem even more annoying to me (crush or not, I couldn't believe Brooklyn would be as shallow as those "Well, hello...and good-bye!" guys from Saturday Night Live). Seeing the episodes in their proper airing order fixes this, of course--Brooklyn has effectively closed the book on the Maggie possibility, and now here is a REAL female gargoyle to court. HOT DAMN!
All things considered (1,000 years without a date) I suppose it's not unrealistic that each of the Trio would go overboard in trying to impress Angela and outdoing the other two. If only they realized how foolish they were looking instead (though I still love the brief bit of posturing they do in the Clocktower--Broadway actually sucks in his gut!).
The bit with them flying into the water tower (or whatever) was worth a chuckle as well. And "muttonheads?" You just don't hear enough people called that anymore. ;-)

In all of this I haven't said word one about the Brod-Dracon turf war. It is what it is, I suppose, the gangster side of GARGOYLES never particularly interested me.
I was surprised to see Brod reappear. Danforth, too, for that matter. I had figured both of them to be one-shot characters (yes, even at this late date in the series, I expected one-shot characters).

I have to wonder what the Witness Protection Program's reaction(s) will be when they learn what ol' Danforth has been up to. Seeing as how Jack is willing to give up a fairly safe and stable life as "a retired banker who likes to spend his afternoons in a health club" to help Brod beat Tony, he really must HATE the Dracons. I wonder why....
I would have liked to see a conversation or something between Jack and Matt--just a reference back to REVELATIONS or something. I just think it would have been nice.

As for Brod, yes, he is audacious. Not just for breaking into prison, but for trying to restart his criminal empire in New York City of all places. No starting small for this guy--go right for the big time!

I had no clue Salli was Elisa until she took off the wig. At the end of Act 1, I thought Salli was a separate character and saw this episode going off in a whole different direction (I'm not saying what direction exactly since it might break the submission rules).
It's interesting to see how she tries to balance her duty with her act--her attempt to reason Brod out of attacking Dracon is a nice example of this (and it's fun how her arguments are so quickly dismissed).

RANDOM THOUGHTS:
-Dracon and Glasses have a frank discussion about the turf war (with Dracon yelling at one point) and there's a trio of guards nearby. I always wonder just what they might have overheard (of course, the guards look like they're having their own conversation, so probably not much).
-Brod eats with his mouth full. Well, I guess manners aren't the most important part of being a gangster, anyway.
-The guy who goes crazy in the police station was the mugger Broadway attacked back in DEADLY FORCE. He also appeared in GOLEM as part of Brod's gang, and he even appeared earlier this episode on Brod's hovercraft. That guy gets around, doesn't he?
-For some reason, I love Elisa's reaction to Angela's, "boy trouble." She actually seems kind of amused by it.
-It wasn't until my viewing before this last one that I noticed Elisa looking at the payphone. I thought it was a nice touch and don't know why I missed it before (maybe my attention was focused on Brod).
-Were Dracon's men firing particle beam rifles? They looked and sounded like actual bullets to me. The guns did have stylized designs, I guess. No comment on the "selective penetration" of the guns (i.e. celing, but not seats).
-I love Pal Joey's taunt to Brod on the train top--just something that struck me.
-I'm similarly struck by the calm way Glasses is able to face what could be his own death. He has a lot more composure than Dracon does later on (of course, Glasses has an "out" while Brod stops to think).
-Poor Lexington--Brooklyn and Broadway are both busy helping Angela, so the little guy has to stand up all by himself.
-Interesting thing: Brooklyn says that he's the one who rescued Angela. I paused my tape at the actual rescue (yes, I am that lame) and I clearly see Broadway as the one who grabs Angela. Was this another case of communication breaking down between the writers and animators, or just Brooklyn himself attempting to ret con the last few minutes?
-"STOP CALLING ME ANGIE!" A funny moment, but I must admit I never realized, until you mentioned it, that Broadway did not call her "Angie" at all this episode. He was also the only one that attempted to reassure her when she was worried about Goliath. I guess some of the seeds were already there (just subtle as hell).
-Elisa/Salli: "We can't just break into a maximum security prison."
Brod: "Why not?" He asks this while gesturing to the sizable armory at the rear of his hovercraft. I find it funny. :-)
-"Sergeant, we've got a problem." I love the Tower Guard's reaction to the hover ship. I wonder if that guy got hurt jumping out of his tower like that.
-Brod seals the only entrance to the cellblock. Now, how did he plan on making his getaway? Have his hover ship blast a hole in the roof?
-I may not be a big fan of "Rocky and Bullwinkle," but that "Easy as shooting moose and squirrel" line would have been GREAT. I can grudgingly understand the S&P objections to the "Good thing we weren't facing Queens" line, and I prefer Puck not to break the fourth wall, but THIS line should have been in the show!
-Dracon revealing Elisa's identity strikes me as a "If I'm going down, I'm taking you with me," moment.
-I loved the two different distinctions Brod and Dracon give the gargoyles.
-The penitent Trio apologizes to Angela, and she gives them each a kiss (corny, perhaps, but I think there's some unspoken law that heroines in ensemble action shows have to give a peck on the cheek to all the males interested in them). Of course she also mentions all her sisters, and that makes the Trio even happier.
-Dracon and Brod as cellmates would never be allowed officially, but I could see a couple of mischievous guards engineering a temporary co-habitation. My brother (who saw this with me) was of the opinion that, given their differences in builds, Dracon needed to make the first punch.

All in all, it's not a bad episode, but it's always difficult for me to see Brooklyn embarrass himself like this. Oh, well.

And with that I should be caught up with the Rambles. For now, anyway.
I'm already looking forward to the next one!

Blaise writes...

VENDETTAS

When this ep first aired, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it.
We had Wolf going after Goliath and Hudson along with Hakon-in-an-axe, and some other guy along the fringes as just comedy relief (these are my initial impressions, mind you). Nothing much more than fighting goes on, along with the revelation that Wolf is Hakon's descendent (and I may be alone, but I rather like that connection).
Regardless, the end made me laugh out loud (and I loved the in-joke of Vinnie humming the theme song).
Over time, I've come to view this episode as being perhaps the most problematic of the series...but I enjoy watching it.

I agree with you on the inherent problems of the piece, Greg. The animation was disappointing--the fight scenes were serviceable but not really involving for the most part, and some comedy was nearly lost. It took a couple viewings before I noticed that Goliath elbowed Hudson in the face while preparing to hit Wolf--the hits occur too quickly for the joke to really pay off--and the second time Goliath nearly elbows Hudson doesn't read that way to me (it just seems awkward that second time).
Then there are the missed opportunities. The mace, of course, is the biggest. As nice as the "battle-axe night" line sounds, I'd rather have the mace. Actually, there could still be a fun line put in there, I think. Maybe not "mace night," Todd's right that doesn't have the same ring to it, but Wolf doesn't strike me as picky about specific terms for melee weapons. "Tonight is CLUB night" would have a nice double meaning to it, or "Tonight is WARHAMMER night" (probably please fans of that old pen-and-paper RPG of the same name). Sorry, I digress.
And yes, I would have liked more resonance to Hudson's battle with Hakon. You get a *little* of "Hudson taking revenge" when he gives a little chuckle as he leaves Hakon trapped in the crusher, but I would have liked more. Love the "clan-slaughterer" title, though.

These complaints aside, I rather enjoy the episode. Vinnie actually helps. It's nice to see what happened to a supposedly "random" person due to the gargoyles' actions. I raised an eyebrow at ret conning him into the role of "big nose" on Air Fortress 1, but I was willing to shrug my shoulders and go with it. I had not seen THE CAGE when I first saw VENDETTAS so the bit with Sevarius getting kidnapped left me mystified and frustrated (it did not stop me from thinking Talon was the kidnapper when I finally did see CAGE, he and Goliath have *very* similar silhouettes).
At any rate, I did like the idea of a "regular person" taking on the gargs. Losing his motorcycle and TWO jobs as well--heck, I'D demand satisfaction for that, too! And I believed Mr. Carter was a real gun (loved the Acme reference, BTW--didn't get the "Kotter" reference because that was before my time). Of course, neither Vinnie nor his gun is quite "regular." Vinnie explains himself (justifies himself, I guess) to Mr. Carter, earning stares from people passing him on the street. Vinnie doesn't seem to notice, though. Of course, not paying attention is what gives him such a difficult night to begin with. My favorite is where he tells "Mr. C" about the second job he lost and then turns around the corner and is surprised that the gargs are gone (as though the world stops when he reminisces). I guess this is part of your point on vengeance, Greg; Vinnie is so wrapped up in "creaming" Goliath--"the Big One"--that he doesn't notice imminent hurt/humiliation until it happens.
But he does not give up! When all other foes are defeated, Vinnie is still the last man standing! I'll come back to him before the end.

On to Hakon and Wolf. I didn't immediately cotton to Hakon being the axe. I noticed it laughed in the car and sounded similar to Wolf, but only when Hakon appeared as himself at the end of Act 1 did I realize who it was.
And Hakon has a LOT of powers. I guess it's a combination of being around for 1,000 years in a magical cave, being full of hate, and possessing a blood descendent that allows him to do what he does with Wolf's body. Flight telekinesis, disappearing, illusions (Hudson sees Goliath as Wolf), and the ability to become insubstantial…I wouldn't mind being able to do that! Hakon was right; Wolf was a fool to give up that power before the gargs were defeated. Of course, Wolf's always been a bit bull-headed about doing things his way and being in charge.
I had no problems with Wolf being descended from Hakon. Quite the contrary, I saw a wealth of opportunity in this development. Of course, Wolf and Hakon don't specifically tell anyone but the audience about this connection so I don't know how anything would develop. But the seed's there.

One interesting point that's made about vengeance in this episode: sometimes, the feelings of vengeance are not mutual. Hudson views Hakon as the ultimate evil, but Hudson barely matters to Hakon--the old gargoyle is just another obstacle to get to Goliath. To Wolf, Goliath, the "alpha male" gargoyle, is the ultimate target, but I somehow doubt if Goliath views Wolf that way. He views Wolf as a powerful and tenacious enemy, sure, but I don't think Goliath singles Wolf out from the rest of the Pack as a "prime" foe. As for Goliath and Hakon, yes there is resonance there, and in the past Hakon was definitely a focal point of Goliath's vengeance, but I think after SHADOWS OF THE PAST, Goliath's enmity for Hakon is no longer as strong. Hakon on the other hand, has lost no hatred for Goliath.
And none of them have any clue that Vinnie even exists until he walks right up to Goliath and shoots a pie in G's face.

That last part still puts a smile on my face. I had not expected the pie, but in a way it makes perfect sense. Why would Vinnie want to KILL Goliath? The gargoyles have humiliated Vinnie multiple times, cost him property and two jobs, but he's still alive, in good health, and not TOO badly off if he can afford Mr. Carter. Based on that, a pie in the face seems a reasonable retaliation.

One bit of dialogue I rather like in this episode is this one:
Wolf: "Come on, are you afraid to die like a man?"
Goliath: "What would a mutate werewolf know about being a man?"
That, coupled with the scene of Wolf scrounging for food in a dumpster, show just how far this former TV idol has fallen. And all just to get Goliath.

I find Hakon's "death" an interesting contrast to the Captain's back in SHADOWS OF THE PAST. With the Captain it was a feeling of peace and ascendancy. Hakon's seems more violent (I love the little electric bolt at the end). It makes sense to me.

I hadn't realized this epsiode had a different voice director until I saw the credits. Honestly, there was no decline in quality so far as I could tell. So take a bow, Greg. And if you see Clancy Brown, tell him to take one, too--he differentiated between Wolf and Hakon very well.

So VENDETTAS, while obviously problematic, is still fun for me.

Blaise writes...

THE GATHERING, PART TWO

I'm having a difficult time figuring out where I want to start with this episode.
The revelation of "Owen-is-Puck" is, of course, the high point, but I also find myself thinking about the battle with Oberon.

Oberon is, without a doubt, the most powerful adversary the gargoyles have ever had to face--and this time he's at full power! However, I find his more subtle uses of said power to be the most effective. I mean, he became a giant and while that's definitely threatening and awe-inspiring, it didn't help him much in any practical sense. But when he actually calms down ("Anger...clouds my judgment.") he really does become unstoppable. Even drained and withered, he proves more than a match for our heroes. The thing with the cape absolutely rocked, of course, but my favorite trick is when Goliath leaps at Oberon...and goes right through him (a trick that will be repeated in VENDETTAS). Oberon then hurls Goliath with a gesture (and a pretty cool line, "This altercation is OVER."). Even at the end, Fox's magic blast doesn't stop Oberon by overpowering him (in fact, when he comes flying back in he seems about ready to kick everyone's ass and take names--actually, I find his "I...have had...ENOUGH!" kind of funny as well as foreboding). In the end, Oberon isn't really defeated...he just changes his mind (thanks to said magic outburst and some choice words from Goliath).
One thing I really thought about here was that, despite banishing Puck and giving a rather curt/foreboding farewell, Oberon seems willing to let bygones be bygones. Partially due to your thoughts on Oberon, Greg, I've actually started to see the more magnanimous side of Ol' Blue Skin.
Over the years, I've come to think better of Oberon than I did during the initial airings. Now I think he's pretty cool.

This viewing, during the gargoyles's battle with Oberon, I noticed how quickly Lex and Hudson got taken out. Especially Lex, he didn't get off a single attack. At least Hudson got to whack at Oberon's hair with his sword (for all the good that did).

I can see one of those "cartoon" moments you mentioned, with Oberon swatting at the gargoyles like flies. I actually think it works as a "comic relief" moment before Oberon brings the statues to life.

That "stone figures" bit was actually pretty cool. Unfortunately, I liked the guy with the hammer and he destroys himself to take out Broadway (speaking of which, for Broadway that must have hurt!).

Count me as another who loves Xanatos's weak attempt to cover his saving Broadway.

"It's incredible how often that move works." I LOVE inside jokes like that.

The Iron Clan was a nice variation on the Steel Clan. I mean, we (my brother and I) knew they were bulkier than the SC, but only occasionally did I really notice just how much BIGGER they were (during the chase down the side of the Eyrie Building, you see a now human-sized Oberon go by, followed by the Cybots and a gigantic Iron Clan robot). I'm also absurdly pleased by the "launching points" for the Iron Clan...it makes me wonder how much of the buildings surrounding the Eyrie Xanatos owns or rents.

I loved seeing Renard come to the rescue. Renard sounds stronger here, to me, than he has since OUTFOXED. His words aren't as broken apart as they were even in PART ONE. I like this touch. I'm a little sad that the last we see of Renard in this is "I've failed him." It would have been nice if he were a part of the little "victory celebration" at the end. Heck, it would have been nice if Petros could have been a part of it--and his exit wasn't as dignified as Renard's. Petros just got knocked out and forgotten.

I always figured that while the iron harpoon hurt Oberon, the iron bell would basically rip the very fabric of his being apart. After all, at the right pitch, sound can shatter glass.

And finally we come to the big revelation. Any disappointment I felt at my brother being right was curtailed by my delight at this excellent little twist. And Puck's explanation for playing the straight man made perfect sense to me.
When I first saw Vogel, I thought he was just an in-joke, even after he became a character in his own right. Little did I know you guys had strong reasons for his similarity to Owen.
It still surprises me that Puck actually had his creations rough up Oberon. Dang, but the little guy's ballsy.

I just love "Oberon does not compromise...Oberon COMMANDS!" Mostly, I love it for Terrence Mann's reading of it. It's just...wow.

We all kind of figured that Fox would display some magic at the end. It was practically a given. However, Puck's reaction to it (which you've already quoted) is priceless.

I was a bit surprised when Oberon banished Puck. I have to admit, I hadn't expected that. And I actually kind of felt sorry for the little elf afterwards, but...he did kind of ask for it.

I was surprised and pleased when Xanatos thanked the clan like he did. Of course Goliath (ascribing to the "Fool me once..." school of thought) is suspicious. I like the actual sad look on Xanatos's face when Goliath snubs him. But then Goliath smiles as he talks about "the transforming power of a child's love." Xanatos may have been the "main villain" for the first season and most of the second, but already that title doesn't fit him as well as it once did.

Other little things:
-I love Oberon's exasperated "Now what?" when the Air Fortress shows up.
-I also liked seeing Oberon's giant footprints in the street (who's going to explain THAT?).
-You guys had Petros notice Oberon's "shrinkage." Only after we the audience had seen it happen twice. I like that, although the characters notice something quickly, they don't see it the instant it starts to happen.
-Hudson's "You've had quite an influence." I find Ed Asner's reading of that intriguing. I like it. I can't say why...it just struck me.
-After having been a major part of the World Tour, Bronx just sits this one out. He probably missed his soup bone.

I'll admit, I believed Titania when she indicated things had gone according to her plan. I don't know what she whispered to Fox (and have never asked), but I do start to see Fox smiling before the camera cuts away.

And yes, Greg, this is the first, last, and only time that Broadway calls Angela "Angie."

Okay, I think that covers THE GATHERING. Next...

Blaise writes...

THE GATHERING, PART ONE

Hey Greg! Good to see you rambling again. I'm going to have to do a little mini-marathon to catch up, so without further ado....

When this episode first aired I had figured that this would be the ep when the Travelers (finally) got back to home base and the rest of the regular cast. I, for one, was looking forward to this, if for no other reason than to see more of my favorite character (Brooklyn).

Seeing the Gathering on Avalon was a nice little "curtain call" for the many supernatural beings the Travelers had encountered on the World Tour. Other than those we had met, Nought definitely had the most striking design (it also helped that he was pretty well featured for a walk-on).

I agree with you about Anubis--he should not be laughing. That part never seemed quite right to me.

It amuses me how, when the Banshee and Odin are fighting, Oberon at first enjoys the action immensely, but as soon as his mirror is nearly damaged he calls an end.

I may be alone in this, but I don't feel too sorry for the Banshee--she was a bit of a pain.

Selene (sp?) is in full fury mode here (I love her eagerness in offering to hunt down Puck).
I also enjoy Princess Katharine's reaction to Oberon contacting her magically.

I've always wondered what Renard thinks of Petros Xanatos. I'd imagine that they might have got along well enough, despite Renard's enmity towards David.

I hadn't figured out Titania and Anastasia were one and the same until Anastasia started talking. Only here did I recognize them as both having the same voice actress and draw the connection.
Of course I didn't get the Owen/Puck connection (or refused to--I'll explain later).
I, too, loved Vogel's reaction to Petros' question about him being related to Owen (an honest question if you ask me).

The child is born. And (for those of us who read the credits of FUTURE TENSE) we already knew his name (and what he'd probably look like all grown up).

Watching the bit with the jogger pouring out his drink after his "hallucination" this last time, I felt myself thinking that, while it's a nice old gag, I'd kind of like to see it with a new twist. For example, instead of pouring out the offending substance, after seeing the supposed hallucination, the subject instead smiles and starts chugging it.

The hypnotized guard is funny. The late Charles Hallahan did a great job with both that and Travis Marshall's snide "...both of them ex-convicts..." line. Great copy and great performance.

The confrontation in the Xanatos' bedroom was very well done. Oberon's reaction to Fox being Titania's daughter is, of course, a high point, but there are smaller things that stand out to me as well. Seeing a young and healthy Renard is a plus, and I love that Fox visibly reacts to seeing Xanatos' gun behind his back (it's small and if your attention is on Xanatos you wouldn't notice it).
As I was watching this time, I thought about Oberon's lines about how Xanatos should take comfort in having "fought admirably for [his] child against impossible odds," and that they have an hour to say good-bye before he takes Alexander away forever because Oberon is "not without a heart." These lines, looking at the words alone, are essentially making things more painful and frustrating for the Xanatos' (insult to injury, as it were), but Oberon does not intend them that way. He's actually being honest, maybe even paying compliment to them, and (in his own mind) is being nice about the whole thing.
In a way it reminds me of Xanatos' line to Derek in THE CAGE--"He's the scientist, you're just the experiment." Xanatos wasn't trying to hurt or insult Derek with that statement, he was just stating the fact of the matter. Similar to Oberon here, the words used by the speaker seem more hurtful than the speaker's intent.
I suppose all this is just a roundabout way of saying Oberon really is Xanatos' comeuppance. :-)

THE TRAVELERS FINALLY COME HOME!!!
Man, I was so happy to have them back on home territory and ready to get back to stories with the rest of the regular cast in their given setting. The World Tour was a nice way to expand and show more gargoyles, but there really is "no place like home."
When Goliath is telling about all the gargoyles around the world he sounds positively giddy. He's even SMILING! Of course he's been smiling since they got back, but here...it's just that seeing Goliath this happy is a bit uncommon.
The Trio of course has their first introduction to Angela...and I kind of suspected this would be the cause of a few waves with them. Three guys and ONE girl…oh, yeah, trouble. The bit with the chocolates is funny, too. And after tasting just ONE chocolate, Angela says, "I think I'm going to like it here." BEHOLD! The power of CHOCOLATE!!

Seeing Goliath and Elisa on her terrace...the first time I watched this, I had already decided that they were going to kiss or something by the end of the season. When G brought E back home, I thought, "This is going to be it!" Then Elisa had to be a party pooper and stop it (and my, wasn't that rain a convenient way of breaking it off).
This latest viewing, I found myself thinking, "...She left her lights on, the electric bill's going to be bad. Wait...how long have they been gone, exactly? It's a miracle she still even HAS her apartment--all the months she wasn't there to pay rent! What, does she pay several months in advance?!" Being a budding actor I have found myself struggling to cover such bills for the past two years, consequently thoughts like that have a tendency to occur to me.

Anastasia/Titania's revelation of herself to the gargoyles was a bit too quick for me, but there's only so much time in the average episode.

I love that the evacuating workers are actually questioning why they're being evacuated (I heard someone mumbling "fire drill"). It's a little detail I like.

The force field surprised me a bit, both because it's something we hadn't really seen before in the series, and because it was actually effective.

I love how Oberon goes from being amused to being pissed off when his magical bolt doesn't break the force field.
Nice effect where his eyes glow green when the lightning flashes.

Seeing Oberon wreak the one car makes me feel sorry for the car's owner (hope the owner's got good insurance). Then he puts everyone in the city to sleep and I start to wonder how many people might die (killed in a car accident, fell asleep while on a ladder or stairs, etc.) because of this. A lot of people are going to be inconvenienced by something they have absolutely no idea about (kind of like Vinnie!).

Oberon's put the city to sleep and both Petros and David Xanatos are in the "war room" with the former asking, "Has the attack begun?" I find that hilarious.

And then Oberon grows up ("Enuk-cha!"). That last shot of his laughing face through the glass of the atrium is great, especially as a cliffhanger.

Here, at the end of my ramble, it's time to talk about Owen. Now, of course he's acting weird but....
Okay, when this ep first aired I watched it with my brother. Now, I was the GARGOYLE nut in my family. My brother and mother thought it was all right and would watch it from time to time, but I was the one who lived, breathed and slept it. So, my bro and I watch this and my bro turns to me and says, "Owen's got to be Puck." And because it was my brother who said this, I disagreed with him. It wasn't that I didn't think it was possible Owen and Puck were the same (in fact, it seemed to me like a distinct and intriguing possibility), but it galled me that my brother (who would NEVER admit to being wrong) would be right about this. The fact that GARGOYLES was MY thing and not his made me more adamant.

Of course, in the end he was actually right...but I can't recall being disappointed about it in this case. It was just too cool of a twist.

On to part two, now....

Justin writes...

I know this will not reach you for awhile. But I was perusing internet movie database and found an outstanding review of the series I thought and hoped you might enjoy.

This person captures the spirit of the fans in every way, on every level. We have bought the DVS's we WILL buy the comics, and Yes, I believe we will bring this timeless show back.

We cannot do otherwise guys.

I have just one question: How can Disney Television Animation produce such a wonderful show as "Gargoyles" for a couple of seasons and then go back to being Disney Television Animation? I simply cannot understand it, and if anyone has any thoughts, PLEASE share them with me! This show was a breath of fresh air on every level. If this wasn't a groundbreaking show, it certainly raised the bar sky high.

Voices--Many's the time I have thought that they could have chosen a better actor for a part in animation. Not here. The voice cast was so good that to this day I cannot imagine anyone else filling the bill. In the role of Goliath, Keith David demonstrated that he possesses one of the greatest speaking voices of any actor in the business. Jeff Bennett was also great as Brooklyn, my favorite character. (Loved the white hair!)

Music--Carl Johnson's scores were great. They beautifully set the tone and underlined the action and the drama.

Animation--Excellent. Dark, moody and stylish. The shots of the clan as stone statues are downright eerie at times. To this day, I still can't believe Disney did this one.

Plot--Action, drama, technology, mythology, humor and a little Shakespeare on the side. Folks, WHAT MORE COULD YOU POSSIBLY ASK FOR? This series had the most tightly structured story lines ever--there was not a single moment of dead air anytime.

The best thing about the series, however, was the characters. For being a clan of gargoyles (with a couple of humans), these characters were as real as you and I. Things HAPPENED to them! They actually got HURT as a result of violence. They matured, sometimes in ways unexpected. They found out the hard way who their friends and enemies were. And they had to live with the consequences of their actions, which sometimes came back to haunt them in later episodes.

Here's hoping Disney will realize the error of their ways and bring this show back. If you are already a fan, may you continue to enjoy the show. If you haven't seen it, give it a chance. But be advised: Once you have seen television and the world through the glowing eyes of a gargoyle, you will never want to settle for "standard kiddie fare" ever again.

I hope you enjoyed this Mr. Weisman

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Turf" ramble, Greg! Only 6 to go now (though I doubt that you'll be able to do them all before the end of January - pity).

The trio definitely come across in this episode as the gargoyle equivalent of the Three Stooges, especially when they collide with the chimney, and when Brooklyn's shouting "Knock it off, you muttonheads!" Then again, as Elisa points out, what do you expect when they've been without female gargoyle company for a thousand years?

On a side note, I've noticed that practically every discussion among the fandom over which of the trio Angela ought to wind up with made it "Brooklyn vs. Broadway", with Lexington never seriously included in it. Of course, it makes sense now, in light of what we know about him.

I liked a lot of Brod's lines, such as "Chop shop? What is 'chop shop'?" and "This is why I never go in first" (not to mention what you brought up about "That was my favorite restaurant!") There were a lot of fun lines in here from the other crooks, such as Glasses' "Come on down to Dracon's House of Auto Parts. The prices are hot, and so is the merchandise", and Dracon's "What's going on here? I didn't order a break-out!" And finally, the hilarious ending with Brod and Dracon stuck as cellmates (though I doubt that such a thing would happen in real life).

I didn't recognize Elisa with that blonde wig, so it was a big surprise for me when she took it off and revealed who she was. (And naturally, the trio then go about saying that they knew it was her all along.)

Thanks for your comment about the payphone, by the way; I've been wondering for a long time about the significance of that scene where we look at it against the backdrop of the burning restaurant.

And interesting that Brooklyn should be the one asking about a world tour, in view of what we now know is in store for him (cf. "Timedancer"). One more example of "Be careful what you wish for."

Elana writes...

Dear Greg,

When people ask me why I proclaim that Gargoyles stands apart from other shows, I find it difficult to explain. The characters are great, the relationships are great, and overall it's just... great. But that hardly expresses its true charm.

In watching Gargoyles, I find that its appeal must come from its captivating and immersive mythos, the sense one gets of being transported to another, mystical world. Aside from that sense of awe and wonder, there's also that feeling one gets of really being a part of that world, and having an intimate understanding of it. It's like, even if a topic matter hasn't been thoroughly explored within the episodes, or blatantly described, one can derive how every little thing might be prone to work within the world of the Gargoyles.

Anyway (now that I'm done gushing), in light of all this, did you expect Gargoyles to affect and alter the lives of so many people in the way that it did? Objectively, it was only meant as a show for children, but somehow it's managed to capture and touch the lives of all kinds of people. Could you possibly have expected this? For many people, Gargoyles is more than just an interest or a "hobby." How does it make you feel to know that Gargoyles has nearly been a life-changing experience for so many people?

~Elana