A Station Eight Fan Web Site
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I've got to say, Puck is one of my favorite characters (which is funny, because most of my favorite characters aren't the favorites of other people). Maybe it's because he reminds me of my cat, but it's probebly because he has something I've never been very good at getting: a decent sense of humor. Oberon on the other hand..... It took me a while to warm up to him. I like him now though. Because I'm a person who has been taught humility since the age of seven, I think he's waaaaaay too proud. My mom thinks he's a bit of a baby, but she's amused by it. Maybe as a phycologist, she sees something I don't. The following observations and questions are about the two afore mentioned members of the Third Race. I guess they count as one topic....
I was suprised by Oberon's harsh punishment for Puck in 'The Gathering' (expecialy since HE was the one at fault), but I guess his banishment from Avalon could have been a 'So There' kind of thing. In my mom's oppinion (She's a fan too, by the way) Oberon was like 'Oh, it's BORING, is it? I guess you won't mind never coming back then....' and Puck was like 'Well, actually, I was just sort of..... whining.' Later, I thought I hit the moral of the story and told my mom (who was surprised I hadn't gotten it earlier). Our conversation went something like this:
Me: Mom! I think I got the moral of the story!
Me: Your pride doesn't just hurt you; it hurts the people around you!
Mom: ..... Duh.
Yeah... now for some real questions.
1. You said Oberon probebly still cares for Puck. What about Puck still caring for Oberon? After a punishment like that, (which I figure was done more for Oberon's pride than anything else) I might be a little bitter.
2. If this wasn't fair, why didn't Titania say something? Is she still upset about the donkey thing? I can't say I blame her, but we're talking about a way extream punishment here!
3. Will this state of tension be adressed in future stories?
1. Bitterness and feeling aren't mutually exclusive.
2. If you say so. Titania got her way, largely though.
We wanted that giant pocket watch (or whatever) that Puck pulls out at the end to be a MICKEY MOUSE WATCH... but Disney would just not allow it. They were afraid it would come off as product placement in a kid's show or something.>>
...Because Puck is a mickey Mouse kinda guy???
Because it was more specific, and thus funnier. Not to mention the in-jokiness of it.
When Owen is assissting Xanatos in his less-than-nice plots, does Owen's 'inner Puck' ever feel remorse for it? Does he have any ... I suppose I would call it 'moral disagreements' with what Xanatos does? Trickster or not, Puck doesn't strike me as the type that would get off on ruining people's lives. Can he feel guilt? Or are Oberon's Children above that sort of weakness?
I don't generalize about Oberon's Children, but I do think you may be giving Puck too much credit. He enjoyed (most) of the events of "The Mirror". He played his very cruel "Future Tense" trick on Goliath. He's a Trickster. I don't see him as being particularly benevolent. I just believe he's developed specific feelings of loyalty toward Xanatos, Alexander and (to a lesser extent) Fox.
How does Oberon maintain his rule over his Children? So far we've seen that many of them have abilities that could probably kill Oberon like Anubis's ability to manipulate life and death and Puck's ability to rewrite reality or is Oberon just much more powerful than the combined might of his children?
Than the COMBINED might... no, I doubt it. But do you really think that THAT group could agree on a replacement?
And to address your specific examples, Oberon is clearly more potent than Puck. Puck can't rewrite reality. He can simply send a false vision. SO not the same thing.
And we've seen how rigid Anubis is with his powers.
hi! I have a question about puck. is he consusly controling owen? like he made himself be owen but deep inside owen is puck actuly thinking puck thoughts but acting like owen. like xanatose has his exosceletin and he wears it, he looks like a robot but he controls it, the exoskeleten dosn't control himself. I mean puck and owen aren't two peaple it's just pucks secret identety sort of. is that right?
Secret Identity, yeah. But more accurately it's a part that Puck plays and he's determined to be true to character.
My Puck/Owen Ramble:
I didn't see it coming, okay? Maybe I'm thick or something but I did not have the -slightest- clue that Owen was really the Puck. Did. Not. See it. I was blown away, to put it mildly. I fell out of my chair and frothed for a bit. Having managed to see these episodes in order, I'd seen all of Owen's episodes and Puck's and still didn't see it coming. Later, when I re-watched City of Stone, I fell over again: YOU KNEW ALL ALONG!! HINTS!!! EVERYWHERE!!! AGhthth!
As to the stone fist, I'd read it like this: Owen didn't know -what- the cauldron would do, but figured if it was something really bad, he could always get a new hand, given some time. His faith in Xanatos' technology was quite high, and there was ample evidence that Xanatos was developing loyalty-like emotions of his own. (I say loyalty-like because frankly Xanatos is one scary bugger, even post-Gathering.) As for Xanatos, I (wrongly, it turned out) read him as really feeling something there, some shock, some dismay and even sympathy, BUT knowing that the worst thing he could express was sympathy. It's not the Xanatos way to cry over spilled milk, or even a few gallons of spilled blood. You arch an eyebrow, make a mental note, and go on. To me at least, he did Owen a great service by reacting in the most Xanatos way possible, and in fact anything else would have been an insult to what I thought at the time was a huge (but on some level, justified as it IS freaking immortality) sacrifice.
(That last bit works really well even if you know about Puck, but it's far less dramatically heavy and more of a sublimely funny moment the two friends share. To translate the lines into Dude-where's-my-car-ese: "Hey, check it. Human form, human effects." "Huh huh. Awesome." The pair are actually -both- parodying themselves here, Owen being subserviant to the point of near-insanity, and Xanatos blowing it off. I like to think that here Xanatos is kind of thinking to himself "boy, I'm kind of a jerk, aren't I" but having more fun playing the part than any sort of remorse-like emotions.
If I somehow haven't said it enough, holy crap Gargoyles is the awesomeness, I've bought two copies each of the two DVD sets out, and I am obsessed with Xanatos' scary hotness. I have a LiveJournal icon of him from "The Edge" with the words "OMG XANATOS!" blinking underneath it. A toast to the prettiest, scariest, yummiest villain of all time.
I appreciate your compliments, but I also really LOVE your analysis of the characters. The fact that Owen turned out to be Puck doesn't change most of what you wrote.
As for that revelation, our goal was to shock the audience (or most of it) but still leave them saying, "Of course! Why didn't I see it before?!"
'The Mirror' is one of my favorites eps. But one thing bothered me about it when I first found out about Owen being Puck.
Did Puck transform Xanatos into a gargoyle with the rest of the city? Or did his terms/agreement with Xanatos prevent him from doing so?
If X was in town, he got transformed.
I've always noticed that Puck has somewhat of an effeminate 'vibe' about him. So I was wondering; is Puck in fact gay/bisexual, or just a bit camp?
I reject the "camp" notion entirely in this context. Puck is of course a LOT camp. But that has nothing to do with his sexuality.
And I'm not too fond of proscribing gender roles so rigidly that I'd apply the term "effeminate vibe". I know there's nothing negative in your question, even by implication, but I just don't buy into the way you've posed it.
Given all of the above, I'm not inclined to discuss his sexuality one way or another at this time.
I have many questions about Owen/Puck.
1) What exactly were the terms Owen/Puck made with Xanatos?
2) Why did Xanatos chose Owen over a chance for immorlity?
3) What does the Xanatos family (even a future Alex) see Owen as? Buisness partner? Friend?
I mean Xanatos saves Owen from braking in 'City of Stone' so he must like him some what. It's not in Xanatos character to just save someone, they must mean something to him, right?
4) How do the gargoyles, Elisa, and Matt see Owen? Do they think he's like Xanatos, or just a man who helps Xanatos out on the sidelines?
5) Does Oberon care for Puck? He seemed upset about punishing Puck in 'The Gathering'.
6) And am I right in thinking that Owen and Fox's mother knew who each other were before 'The Gathering'? If so why didn't Titinia tell Oberon about Puck/Owen?
1. A lifetime of service as Owen. No magic from Puck.
2. Confidence (or one might say over-confidence). Xanatos found Owen invaluable. He figured he could get immortality some other way.
3. Why wouldn't Xanatos just save someone? Death is wasteful in his opinion. Certainly losing Owen as a resource is EXTREMELY wasteful. But I think coming out of the "Gathering" two-parter, Xanatos may have learned to appreciate Owen a little more as a friend. Owen/Puck made a huge sacrifice for him. I think Fox would see that too. And Alex will grow up thinking of Owen as part of the family.
4. Well at this point, they know he's Puck. I think they trust Owen not to lie -- and or smash them while they sleep. But they also don't trust Owen to tell the truth. He's Xanatos' man for all that. And they don't quite trust Xanatos either.
5. I think he probably does. I'm not sure he'd admit to it.
6. Owen/Puck knew that Anastasia was Titania. Titania (as far as we know) didn't know that Owen was Puck. As far as we know.
How exactly did you come to realize that Puck and Owen were the same person?
Was it because you looking at who Puck had served and needed somebody?
I can't believe I haven't answered this before here. But since Todd didn't field this one, I guess I haven't... or at least not here at ASK GREG.
We always knew there was something special about Owen, but didn't know what it was at first. Then when we first started working on "The Mirror" and created Puck, it suddenly occured to me that Puck was Owen. An epiphany. I immediately called Brynne Chandler Reaves and Lydia Marano. The conversation went something like this...
Greg: "I just realized: Owen is Puck!"
Brynne & Lydia: "We know!"
It was just so right. The references in "The Mirror" to Puck "serving the human" and in "City of Stone, Part One" to Owen being "the tricky one" were put in post-epiphany.
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