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The Phoenix Gate

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GREG-SPONSES 2010-02 (Feb)

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Greg Bishansky writes...

"Gargoyles, Bad Guys: Redemption. #5: Strangled"

This issue is told somewhat non-linearly, but no where near to the extent as the recent Stone of Destiny story in "Gargoyles."

Parts of this center around Dingo's past. We see Dingo/Harry Monmouth as a small child rush home only to be told by his surrogate father figure, John Oldcastle, that his mother, Mariah, has run off again. Mariah is apparently a bit of a free-spirit... and this was the 1970s. Young Harry seems hardly surprised, as Mariah has done this before. But John promises to take care of him. And, for the next decade or so of his life, John... a professional thief and criminal trains Harry and the two of them pull off a series of heists.

In the present day (hee hee, 1997), Hunter informs the now full squad of Dingo, Matrix, Yama, and Fang, that their next target is an Illuminati stronghold on an island. So now, it all comes together. This is the island that we've been seeing this squad battle those giant robots.

The squad destroys the robots and enters the stronghold, where they discover a gigantic Illuminati banner, and they are ambushed by a bunch of freaky villains in Renaissance get-up. Dingo immediately recognizes one of them as someone he worked with when he was younger and pulling jobs with John Oldcastle, and knows who they're up against.

Enter John Oldcastle, who now calls himself Falstaff. And like the Falstaff of William Shakespeare's "Henry IV," Falstaff is a rather large individual who loves to eat and drink. He also refers to himself as the "King of Thieves." The Shakespeare character was a thief as well. Gotta hand it to Greg, if he can reference the Immortal Bard, he will. Shakespeare is always a wonderful thing to include, and like the series, you don't need to be fluent in it to enjoy it.

And while I'm on the point, there was a historical John Oldcastle. He was arrested for heresy, escaped from the Tower of London, and plotted to capture King Henry V (they used to be friends) and his family. He was eventually executed... hanged and burned. They say Shakespeare based his Falstaff off of John Oldcastle. Which makes Weisman's choice in the name very appropriate.

Falstaff greets Dingo with a big manly hug... and then we cut back to our flashback to Dingo's youth, when he returned home to discover his mom had taken off again. Only, she didn't take off... John Oldcastle strangled her to death in their bedroom.

I liked this issue. Everything seems to be coming together, and the story has caught up with itself. I also think that final page outlines the advantages of the comic book medium. "Gargoyles" on TV got away with a lot, but S&P would hardly allow any cartoon series to depict a man with his hands around the throat of a dead woman (and make no mistake, she is already dead in that shot) in their bedroom.

To be concluded...

Greg responds...

Yep, she's dead all right.

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Phil writes...

Greg,

Nine years ago (has it been that long?) there was an Arthurian survivors contest here at "Ask Greg". With the recent "Stone of Destiny" storyline in which Percival seems to have been split into Duval and Peredur, I'm wondering if what change have occurred on the list of Arthurian survivors.

Just to refresh your memory (and for those who don't remember it at all), here's the list as of nine years ago:
1. King Arthur Pendragon. Slept under a spell in the Hollow Hill.
2. Merlin. Son of Oberon by a mortal woman. Imprisoned in the Crystal Cave.
3. The Lady of the Lake. One of the Oberati.
4. Sir Percival. The Fisher King. Mr. Duval. Founder of the Illuminati. Spends a lot of time in Castle Carbonek, a sort of mini-traveling-Avalon, where time passes differently. Also uses the Holy Grail to maintain his youth, though at a very real physical cost, due to his, shall we say, sins.
5. Lady Blanchefleur. Percival's wife. Queen of Castle Carbonek. She lives there and uses the Grail. The only cost being her estrangement from Percival.
6. Morgana le Fay. A changling in the old-fashioned sense.
7. Nimue. A sorceress with connections to Merlin, the Oberati and Morgana. (Think about it.)
8. The Green Knight. An Oberati.

So what, if anything, has changed in the past decade? Are there still only eight survivors? If we replace "Percival" with "Peredur" and take out the reference to Mr Duval is the list still accurate?

(By the way, I loved both Gargoyles: Clan-Building and Bad Guys: Redemption, and I'm looking forward to more in the future!)

Greg responds...

Nothing's changed.

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Evan Wilder writes...

Hi, Greg. My name is Evan Wilder. I have tried to contact you repeatedly but my efforts had proven unsuccessful. I want to say that you inspired me to create my fantasies into a screenplay. I would also want to work alongside with you on this new concept.

Contact me at
ewil313@aol.com.

Thank you for your time.

Greg responds...

Hey Evan,

Good luck on your screenplay, but I'm afraid I won't be contacting you. It's nothing personal. But I'm not looking for this kind of partnership. And I make it a general policy not to solicit original ideas on this site.

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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GargFan writes...

Having, read your 2009 radio play for Gargoyles/SSM, I have to ask, but did Demona briefly become an avatar of Christ like Jackal and the Emir with Anubis and Goliath with Odin?

Greg responds...

Uh... I don't think so.

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the final act of the Radio Play, Greg.

The ending, with the Illuminati getting their hands on the Spear and the Crown of Thorns, surprised me. Well, apart from the fact that a part of me thought that, in light of the Illuminati's links to the Holy Grail, it would be appropriate if they eventually got the Spear of Destiny, which turns up in the medieval Grail romances a number of times (in the role of the spear that crippled the Fisher King). And so Tombstone's an Illuminatus as well - pity that it can't be canon.

I was also surprised at Dominic Dracon's death - killing off a canonical character in a non-canonical script!

A few other highlights: more people telling Margot to "give it a rest", the "Casablanca" quote at the end, and Demona stuck at Ravencroft - though I doubt that she'll be there long.

Thanks for such a delightful piece, Greg.

Greg responds...

You're welcome!

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Matthew writes...

After the Wyvern Massacre, why did Demona not try to find her eggs? She clearly saw Magus and the Princess take them from Wyvern.

Greg responds...

Mostly, I'm inclined to leave the answer to this question to your interpretation, but a few words come to mind: guilt, shame, depression, denial. Check as many boxes as you like.

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Matt writes...

My Review For Gargoyles #11, "Tyrants"...

- Alright. I'm a liar. I said in my "Rock of Ages" review that I planned to read each issue independently and review them before moving on to the next chapter, so as to get my true first impressions of each story without influence from later chapters or talking with fans. I was doing pretty well until this issue. By the end of it, I could hardly stop before moving on to #12. What is worse is that I've recently returned home from the Gathering and have had lots of discussions and revelations about the entire book. Nevertheless, I'll do my best to write these reviews as separate issues, focusing on my initial impressions for the most part.

- So, as usual, I'll start with the cover. Brooklyn meeting his past, frozen self is a neat idea. The cover made me wonder immediately if Brook will ever meet and talk to himself at some point in his TimeDancing. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Anyway, it is a good, fun cover.

- We pick up more or less where we left off, though I get the sense that some time is passing in 10-12 that we are not seeing. There is a lot of traveling through Scotland going on and I'm sure Brook is spending days on the road. What strikes me about that is that this time is passing without note, which contrast greatly with the previous three comics where every minute was accounted for. So, Mary, Finella and Brooklyn arrive back at Wyvern. A few years have passed since the Massacre and all seems quiet and calm at the old Castle. Brooklyn finally gets a chance to really face what happened to his Clan. Their crushed remains lie all around him. Brook is such a rich character. Capable of such sorrow and anguish and still be one of the most humorous characters in the series. Great writing. Brooklyn learns quickly that it isn't a great idea to talk about future events to people in the past when Mary asks about Tom. I get the sense here that Mary and Finella know and believe Brook is from the future, but not from how far in the future. I doubt Mary knows about how time passes on Avalon, so I suspect that she might only believe Brook is from a few decades down the road. Interesting. Also of note here is that Brook finds an old scabbard for the sword he obtained in the last chapter. I think this merits note because suddenly Brooklyn feels the need to carry a weapon, something he has never needed before. He also discovers that Goliath's half of the Phoenix Gate is not available.

- Meanwhile, in less quiet corners of Scotland, the busy world of war and politics is ticking along. Constantine fulfills his moniker of "Constantine the Bald" by shaving his head. Thanks to Todd Jenson and the GargWiki I was well aware of this historical tidbit before reading this chapter and it gave me a cool feeling. Constantine's relationship with Gillecomgain is very interesting, and thus the relationship with Mail Brigti is interesting as well. Constantine seems creepily fascinated by the teenager and this seems to worry Brigti, though he is probably wise to say nothing of it. Most strongly on Constantine's mind seems to be the war however. I like how he mentions the "Three Brothers". Valmont is cool here too. He deduces that Katharine and Magus have left "this world", Tom is with them or dead and that the Grimorum remains in Scotland all by reading the entrails of goats! A talented and creepy sorcerer to be sure.

- And finally, in another corner of Scotland, Demona arrives to her clan's cave with bad news. "They're all dead". Yikes. She seems mostly pissed off, but everyone else seems more shocked and sad. I like that distinction. And lets talk about this clan. The male gargoyles are not new to us, but the females and the beasts are. I can't help suspecting that the beasts are Bronx's biological parents and that the young female is 'True', Hudson's biological daughter. As it turns out, both suspicions were correct as revealed at the Gathering. Apparently, this cell is of gargoyles that originated at Wyvern. Kinda cool. We also get our first canon mention of the Wind Ceremony (just as earlier we got our first canon mention of the Humility Spell, this is a good chapter for canonizing things). I like how young, innocent 'True' suggests a Wind Ceremony, but the older, harder, angrier Demona just wants vengeance. For me this symbolizes Demona's ironic drift from the true gargoyle ways.

- And in yet one more corner of Scotland, the army of the Three Brothers assembles. I love their emblem being the three swords. A symbol of unity as opposed to Constantine's claw being a symbol of domination. So, while Demona plots to kill all humanity, Grim is hoping they will be strong allies, that is pretty cool. Really plays into how much I like the Grim. And he gets some luck when Brooklyn arrives and immediately allies himself, with hope that he can bring an army of gargoyles. Things are looking up for the army of the Three Brothers. I also want to mention that I found it funny to see Bodhe and Brooklyn standing next to each other. Not two characters I ever really suspected of being in the same scene, but I suppose TimeDancer will give us plenty of surprises along that line.

- So, we've visited all the 'camps' in this issue and now they all start coming together. After a really funny moral message to his audience beyond the fourth wall, Brooklyn leaves to find the last remaining gargoyles in Scotland. I get a good sense of a lot more time passing here. Maybe a few days or even longer. Brook finds more smashed clans and spends his days hiding before finally being discovered by an old acquaintance, the gargoyle who will be Demona. Naturally, he attacks her immediately. She is amazed to discover she knows him and he barely keeps his anger in check. I like how they both start lying to each other about how they survived the Massacre. After Demona stammers out her line about being in the forest, Brook brushes it off with a "Doesn't matter". I love how he knows she is lying and yet doesn't call her on it. Good restraint on his part and from the other angle it makes me wonder what Demona's reaction will be when she realizes Brooklyn was not being entirely honest either.

- Back at the ranch, Finella wants to try to use the Grimorum. Mary says this sounds dangerous, and I have to agree. Everyone else who has used the book was probably in training for years. We'll see if she can pull it off. I suppose knowing Latin and seeing magic performed before is a good start, but still...

- And at the opposing army's camp, Constantine the Artist is doing some really fun face-painting for the kids... or actually creating an emblem of fear, hatred and genocide which will last for centuries. And all the while is being a real jerk. Killing the messenger and all that. And finally we come to the Battle of Rathveramoen, which we've been building towards for a while. The army of the Three Brothers seems way out-gunned until sunset. And then we get this AWESOME two page spread of Brooklyn leading the gargoyle army into the battle. I noted a couple cool things with this battle. I liked how the gargoyle beasts are seen already chomping down on Constantine's men. I like how Demona's Clan left the young gargoyles behind which contrasts with Bodhe being in the battle, against Gillecomgain, no less. I like how Demona's Second is thrilled at the thought of a 'true battle' rather than the hiding the scattered clan had been doing, and I find it cool that he (and apparently the whole clan) has started calling Brooklyn "The Gargoyle of the Sword". Not a name, of course, but just gargoyles being gargoyles. Why call it 'The Hudson' and not just 'the river', why call him 'Brooklyn' and not just 'the gargoyle of the sword'? The are just called what they are, I love it.

- And lastly we get the battle coming to where it wasn't supposed to get. Mary and Finella's guards are quickly taken out by Valmont and the Grimorum is snatched away. And we get this iconic Gargoyles moment where Demona and her enemy speak the same passionate line. In this case both desire to control Scotland. Really great stuff.

- This was a really interesting issue. Lots of new, cool things to look at, new canon stuff and a great battle begins. A fun issue that clearly left me desperate for more as I was unable to stop reading at this point. And I can still in my mind almost hear Valmont or Constantine's voice-over say "To Be Concluded..."

Greg responds...

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I did really try to put everything I could into those issues...

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Kalara writes...

Mr. Weismen I just got finished reading the Clan Building Vol 2 comic and I've got to say thank you. I felt the magic all over again. For us fans who have all been waiting years for this comic it was well worth the wait. The history and adventure in the story arcs were awesome. If felt the magic of Gargoyles all over again. Thank you for your dedication to the fans and keeping the dream alive for us all over the years. Thanks much no questions just wanted to give some praise to a job well done.

Greg responds...

Praise is always welcome!!!

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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Matt writes...

My Review For Gargoyles #10, "The Gate"...

- Having the next chapter a page turn away but forcing myself to refrain from proceeding until I write up a review is really good motivation for writing said review. So even though I'm not feeling well and just want to read the next chapter and go to sleep, I'm gonna write up my #10 review instead. Who knew I could be so disciplined?

- So, lets start with the cover for this one. A cool cover, though I wonder if it is a bit bland. I'm not sure it would do a great job of catching the eye and bringing in new fans, though I suppose that criticism is moot given that it never hit the stands anyway. Being an old fan (and knowing what the Phoenix Gate is and why Brooklyn's hand is reaching for it), I thought it was very cool. Very exciting.

- Beyond the cover we find ourselves in a new adventure quite separate from the last couple chapters. A different setting, a different bunch of lead characters and, most strikingly, a different artist. Like many others I've greatly anticipated Greg Guler's art in this issue. And, to no one's surprise, he didn't dissapoint. Like Karine Charlebois, Guler's style here really echoes the TV series. This, of course, isn't a shock since Guler designed many of these characters for the series in the first place. It's impossible not to like Guler's work here since it feels so Gargoyles. That doesn't mean I don't like Hedgecock's (or other artists') work on the book, because many people know I liked Hedgecock's work a lot. But one thing I greatly enjoyed about Hedgecock is that he kept well-known characters recognizable while still maintaining his own style. With Guler, the style is the same style as the show. I think both are great, honestly. The ironic thing I noticed immediately when reading this chapter is that some characters not directly designed by Guler (such as Broadway) are spot on, while others he did work on extensively (like Angela) seem a little off at times. All of it looks great though.

- So our story starts back in Manhattan where the oh so melancholy Brooklyn endures the Broadway-Angela relationship. This must be especially tough with Lex and Hudson off in London. Clearly, Brook wants them back for their company. He seems so lonely. I wonder how much he hangs out with Goliath. Who else can he hang out with? How many times in these reviews have I said "Poor Brooklyn"?

- Anyway, the three young gargs are hanging out and a portal opens and out pops the fiery Gate. I wonder if this is where the Gate immediately came after Goliath tossed it in "Future Tense". And if so, why here and why now? Did Goliath's mind have some influence? Or did the Gate come here and now completely on its own accord? Hard to know, though the events that happen next make me suspect the latter. Before anyone has a chance to do anything, the Gate seems to... evaporate or something and out from the ashes (how neat is that?) comes one huge flaming Phoenix. Woah! Thats a big bird. I wonder what nearby New Yorkers thought of that pyrotechnic display. I really like how the Phoenix seems to single out Brook. I wonder why, but no one gets any answers here. The bird gobbles him up as if it didn't have a moment to spare (haha). This leads to one of my favorite moments in this chapter; Broadway and Angela. Now, having the general idea of this moment spoiled to me nearly ten years ago, I've had a lot of time to imagine how it goes down. In ways I'm not too far off, in other ways I was surprised how I reacted. As I suspected, Broadway and Angela do what they can to rescue Brook from the flames and are not successful, but after he is gone and the flames have died out we get one great little panel. Broadway says, "We've... we've lost him..." And Angela responds, "Maybe forever..." How chilling that was! I'm serious, the first time I read it, I got chills from Angela's line. And I think I know how this sort of ends even! Broadway has this sad moment of fear and helplessness and frustration and Angela responds with this great line that contains this mix of pragmatism and sorrow. Like she is trying to comfort Broadway, reassure herself, but ultimately face reality all at once. Leave it to Greg Weisman to deliver such powerful moments in such little dialogue. I mean I am really impressed. A couple frames to look at and no voice actors and I still totally feel for these characters. Great stuff. Really great.

- And what about our poor Brooklyn? Well, he seems to barely have time to catch his breath before he faces danger yet again. This chapter just keeps moving forward, which contrasts greatly with the last three issues. As fun and interesting as the non-linear storytelling was, it really is a relief to get back to a more standard format. One big catch is that I seem to read through these issues even quicker. Anyway, Here we are again in the tenth century, much to the delight of many fans, I'm sure. Flashbacks and time travel and other adventures in the past really are one of the great things about Gargoyles. It is no surprise to me that nearly all the multi-part episodes contain them as they seem to be bursting beyond the seams of a normal length tale. There is so much neat stuff going on in (the year of our lord) 997 that I barely know where to start. Some of the cool things that come to mind include the use of tenth century 'slang' and viewpoints, the natural alliance of Gillecomgain and Constantine, the appearance of one of Constantine's aforementioned sorcerers, and Mary and Finella's continued life on the run. All these characters are so fascinating. I look at Finella and wonder if she has ever seen a real gargoyle before. She seems so amazed that they actually bleed. I love that Constantine is a jerk, but a smart one, he knows his enemies will seek the help of gargoyles and moves to destroy them. I like how he kills the gargoyles out of strategy and maybe a bit of evil joy, while Gillecomgain's destruction of them is pure anger and vengeance.

- And how about the gargoyles themselves? Naturally, I'm thrilled to see a new bunch of Scottish gargoyles, especially since they include females and a beast! They didn't last long though, and boy is Demona pissed about that. Of course, she hasn't been named Demona yet, right? But damn isn't she getting an awful lot of non-speaking cameos in the comic. Isn't this the fourth or fifth book we've seen her, but not heard from her? I know thats about to change, but it strikes me as interesting. Like Greg is baiting along those diehard Demona fans! Haha.

- And as for Brooklyn himself, we see here so clearly how he, more than many other Gargoyles characters can lead his own spinoff. He is a warrior and has issues and aspirations and problems and a keen mind. But most of all he has that sarcastic humor we all love him for. He really had me laughing out loud in this one. Kudos Greg! Some great lines: "Okay, now that I've set back human-gargoyle relations for the next millennium..." and "Look, I know you've never seen Star Trek or Quantum Leap, but I need you to understand - I'm from the future." Great, great stuff.

- One other scene I want to point out is the meeting between the rightful heirs of the Scottish throne. There is a lot of cool stuff going on here. You've got this new character called "The Grim". The moniker is such a contrast to how he seems to actually be. I like him. He seems wise and kind and good-natured. A really good guy in a really ugly world. I love how he knows from his own family history that gargoyles can be powerful allies. He makes me wish that his wisdom and optimism about gargoyles would lead to a good future between the species, though we know this is not to be. Not yet. The other three characters are not new at all. We've got Maol Chalvim just as brooding as ever. Findlaech, who has always been such a great mix of "look at the bright side" and "face reality". And then young Bodhe. Bodhe was a fun surprise. I was surprised he was the Grim's son, I was surprised at his relative youth next to his future friend Findlaech, and most of all I was surprised by his eagerness to follow his father into battle. This is very different from the somewhat cowardly man we know he grows to be. I have to wonder what changes him down the road?

- One final note before I wrap this review up. The "wanted posters" that Constantine is displaying all over Scotland... they seem to have been drawn by the same artists that are designing the characters in Spectacular Spider-Man. Tom especially has a strong resemblance to Peter Parker. I find myself looking for the mole... Anyway, kinda funny. I guess now that references to the other show goes both ways.

- This issue was just awesome. One of the best of the ten chapters, in my humble opinion. The art, the plot, the writing all of it was perfection. My only gripe would be the cover, but one message of this series has always been to not judge a book by its cover and that axiom certainly bears truth for me here. This chapter really leaves me desperate for more, so I'm off to read #11!

Greg responds...

If Greg Guler was consciously trying to ape Sean Galloway's style for those wanted posters, it's news to me...

Response recorded on February 22, 2010

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lil c writes...

am i going 2 have a gurl

Greg responds...

I swear there's a smart-ass response in here somewhere, but I just can't find it.

Response recorded on February 22, 2010


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