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MAY 17

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

May 17th...

The gargoyles, Mazas and were-panthers converges on the ancient ruins of Kara Digi. There they discover that Fara was largely manipulated by the Spider-Trickster Anansi. All concerned join forces to defeat Anansi. Fara and Tea remain were-panthers but are reconciled and vow to protect the jungle. Just before sunrise, Goliath finally acknowledges Angela as his daughter. After sunrise, Elisa tells her mother everything about her life with the gargoyles. At sunset, Elisa and the gargoyles once more return to Avalon. Diane Maza phones New York, informing her husband of Elisa's situation. Peter Maza contacts Matt Bluestone and Talon. Matt contacts Brooklyn, Lex, Broadway and Hudson.

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Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Cloud Fathers" ramble, Greg!

I will confess that I can't remember from my first-time viewing whether I was surprised or not by the revelation at the end that Carlos Maza had passed on. However, I do find myself wondering, whenever I watch it on tape now, whenever either Elisa or Beth asks Peter if he wants to "go visit grandfather" while he's in town, how many first-time viewers did suspect that Carlos was dead, and how many were surprised.

Arizona, incidentally, now has a little more personal significance to me than it did when the episode first aired; my mother and stepfather moved there a few years ago (they live in the Phoenix area). They've sometimes mentioned Flagstaff in conversations with me, but haven't as yet mentioned anything about sand-carvings of Coyote or Kachina dancers. :)

Xanatos's "cliched villainy" line is a particular favorite of mine; only Xanatos would make such a remark! Though the bit where he admits that he has no desire to kill Goliath or any of the other gargoyles - this is just a necessary part of his coyote-trap - definitely stands out to me as well. You don't see the main antagonist saying that to the hero too often in an animated adventure series!

I liked the touch of the Cauldron of Life being incorporated into Coyote 4.0. (As I mentioned once in chat, it reminds me a bit of the scene in "Camelot 3000" where Mordred incorporates the Holy Grail into his armor.) The mention of the iron obviously was a foreshadowing of what was coming in the very next episode. (Was Xanatos's follow-up remark of "Ironic" intended as a pun, by the way?)

I also got a kick out of the mild confusion over "Which Coyote are we talking about here?" - the best part of all being when Coyote the Trickster threatens to sue Xanatos for trademark infringement. (And Xanatos's response that he's a "trickster at heart" rings true to me - the man's living proof that you don't have to be a Child of Oberon to be a trickster. He fulfills the archetype just as surely as Puck, Raven, and the rest do.)

I hadn't noticed the similarity of the Coyote robot to Wile E. Coyote until you mentioned it here at "Ask Greg" (not in this ramble, but in earlier answers to questions), but I certainly see it now. (Though, judging from the name of a certain merchant in "Vendettas", Coyote the robot isn't the only "Gargoyles" character to be influenced by Wile E. Coyote!)

So the multiple trickster story was what you'd originally planned for the Puck-and-Alex story before you decided to merge it with the Cold Trio for "Possession"?

Thanks for another enjoyable ramble, Greg.

Greg responds...

I'm not sure the iron/ironic thing was an intentional pun. But it was so long ago, I may have forgotten.

The Multi-Trickster story was indeed slotted for our 64th episode... with Reckoning planned as our 65th. Then at some point, we learned that Hunter's Moon would not be a direct to video, but would instead have to be folded into our regular series. So HM1-3 became episodes 63-65. Reckoning was moved back to 61, so that we'd have at least a little Demona distance between Reckoning and HM. And then we had to combine a few springboards to make room for Hunters Moon. (For example, Vendettas was a combo of two springboards: (1) Vinnie's Vendetta and (2) Hakon & Wolf's Vendetta.)

So another couple of springboards we combined were the Multi-Trickster story and the Coldtrio story. Cary Bates and I worked the combo for some time, but we finally RAN OUT OF TIME. We were on deadline, and we just couldn't crack a story with so much going on. So we simplified back down to one Trickster, i.e. Puck.

Response recorded on October 26, 2006

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Diandra Bellerose writes...

please, please, please tell me why you just cann't give me the anwser to, "can you compare Anansi and Raven the tricksters?", without makeing me do some thing for you cause I cann't put up with it.

Greg responds...

Wow. You just like totally read my mind. It's like you knew I was going to answer with a smart-ass response two years before I even read your question.

I'm tempted to ask you to jump up and down on one foot while reciting the "Ryme of the Ancient Marineer".

And I'm tempted to be affronted about your "I cann't put up with it" attitude.

But what the heck...

I'm not sure exactly what you hope to see here, assuming your still here two years later...

But I see Raven as being nastier, more power-hungry. I see Anansi as more of a hedonist. Lazy and gluttonous.

How's that?

Response recorded on October 21, 2005

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Puck Robyne Lover!! writes...

Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.

Greg responds...

I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:

Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.

Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)

Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.

Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".

Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.

Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.

Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.

Response recorded on November 18, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Was Anasi living in Karadigi the whole time since he banished the people from it? If not where else did he go during the 1001 years of banishment?

Greg responds...

Anansi is a pretty common figure in African mythology. So I'm guessing he may have done some traveling. But Karadigi was his home base outside of Avalon.

Response recorded on September 30, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Why did Anasi have to change one of the Panther Queen's children into a panther? Is it a rule that Children of Oberon have to honor their word?

Greg responds...

Something like that. Oberon's laws can be bent but not broken. Plus a trickster prides himself on the trick. Not on lying flat out.

Response recorded on September 29, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

How old are Anasi, Puck, Raven and Coyote? Which one is older? Which one is the youngest? Who is the second oldest and the second youngest of the four?

Greg responds...

I haven't given this any thought. I'd probably have to do research to figure this out.

Response recorded on September 21, 2004

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Zarok writes...

Is the Egyptian desert god Seth still alive in the Gargoyles Universe? According to Egyptian mythology, he died at some point before recorded history but that didn't stop some Egyptians from worshipping him. Then again worshipping dead guys wasn't unusual back then. I'm just curious about Seth's status in gargoyles. I would like to thank you for your time.

Greg responds...

I have some notions about Set, but he's pretty far down my list of priorities. He's basically a Trickster figure (though a nastier one), and I already have four of those to play with.

Response recorded on January 05, 2004

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Todd Jensen writes...

This is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a while, but kept on forgetting to submit.

In one of your answers last year, you mentioned that, after Raven was driven by Natsilane from Queen Florence Island, he spent some time in Spain and Alaska until the time of the Gathering. Now, I can see why Raven would spend some time in Alaska, since if I recall correctly, the figure of Raven the Trickster is quite prominent in the local legends there. But I'm at a loss as to why Spain. Is there any particular significance to Raven going there?

Greg responds...

If I said that, there probably was, but I can't remember why now.

Disappointing, I know, but honest.

Response recorded on August 27, 2003

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Lynati writes...

Why can't I sleep?
I've been up since 7 am yesterday. This just isn't fair.

Getting to the *actual* question...(I've looked through the archives, and haven't seen this one. I apologize if I missed it. And even more so If I've previously asked this question but forgot your response because it was a smart-ass one.)

"All things are true" you say, but I would appreciate it if you would clarify this for me:
In your conception of the gargoyles universe, are all "non-mortal" beings of the Fae race, or do you allow for the existence of anthropomorphic personifications?
(My, you do get a lot of Neil Gaimen inspired questions, don't you?)

[And as Aaron seems to have become lax in his posting of webcomic (and related) links...]

Greg responds...

Well, I hope you've been able to get some sleep since November 9, 2001...

I guess, and I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, I'm not sure how you're defining "anthropomorphic personifications"? How is that different from, say, Anansi or The Stone of Destiny?

Anansi is definitely a "Child of Oberon." Not literally his kid, but one of his race. (Note: he's not Fae, which is not a term from the series. I view the Fae as a subset of the Children. Same with the Norse Pantheon and the Egyptian Pantheon, etc.)

Whereas, the Stone of Destiny is either an enchanted object or a Child of Oberon. I've intentionally left that vague for now.

As you've seen, the New Olympians are, strictly speaking, not Children of Oberon, though they are descended from them. Do they count as anthromorphic personifications?

So, I'm not trying to dodge the answer. I just honestly don't know how to define your terms.

Response recorded on May 14, 2003

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