<<I guess he thought making a boring "film festival" movie with Sofia Coppola was more important than the pop culture phenomenon with which he had a large part in creating.>>

And it was a TERRIFIC film.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Dec 27, 2009 11:37:11 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

PHOENICIAN - Thanks.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:34:25 pm EST from 4.244.214.248

Matt> Hey! Me too! I got "Spectacular Spider-man" for Christmas too. And Season two of "Pushing Daisies". That was a good show.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Loooong story...some of it even true--Brooklyn
posted @ Sun, Dec 27, 2009 4:19:30 pm EST from 204.184.4.34

@ Gorebash, wherever you are right now d: . . . you should highlight this week somehow in the archives just for Todd's amazing compendium of Shakespeare Play analysis (sorta joking, but I'm also kinda serious).

Lord knows there are plays here that I've never even heard of before (happy to say I did knew about the bulk of them, not-so-happy knowing I've only read/seen four plays ... Romeo & Juliet, Macbeth, Julius Caesar, and A Mid-Summer Night's Dream)

Spidey: Matt and Jurgan mentioned getting Spectacular Spidey Season One this year . . . Having already gotten mine back in July/August (I forget when it came out), I kinda spent the holiday trying to give the DVD to friends/family who may like it -- I got one friend to buy it for her little brother (but just as much for herself) after I showed her my season one DVDs (so I didn't buy it myself, but I still think I was 'influential' XD) . . .

I did end up giving a copy to my younger cousin (he's about four-years-old right now) -- though little, he visited last summer and saw my season one, LOVED it (as only a four-year-old can), so I knew he'd get a copy of his own before year's end.

Wanted to get him a Josh-Keaton-quipping-Spectacular Spidey-action-figure, but alas, couldn't find the toy . . .
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 27, 2009 12:29:52 pm EST from 70.190.65.34

SUPERMORFF - Yes, I've thought for some time that there are several similarities between Xanatos and Odysseus/Ulysses; they're both tricksters, yet with close family ties, and Xanatos is even of Greek descent. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his family tree went directly back to Ithaca....

I've heard many people say that Lorenzo Music's voice became typecast, though I still liked his portrayal of Venkman. One of my favorites among his roles, though, was what may have been a little-known radio commercial around Easter, when he was talking about the annual coming of the Easter Cow - yes, Easter Cow, the cow responsible for the butter on your Easter sticky buns and other such treats, concluding his speech with "And believe in the Easter Cow". My mother was also amused by the commercial when she heard it, and even put a stuffed cow in the center of the table for Easter dinner that year as a result (saying that the droll quality of Music's voice was especially responsible).

The last few Shakespeare plays:

TWELFTH NIGHT: Will most likely provide quotes and namesake characters. I don't think Owen will play a Malvolio role, of course, though I've a soft spot for Malvolio, having played him twice (school productions both times, not professional theatrical performances).

(Ophelia's name makes me wonder whether many of the other female members of the Avalon clan might also bear Shakespearean names; there aren't that many female angels to name them after, unlike the case with the males.)

THE TWO GENTLEMEN OF VERONA: One of Shakespeare's early comedies, not all that popular, and with strong signs that he had a lot to learn when he wrote it. The title characters are two young men named Valentine and Proteus, who start off as friends; unfortunately, Proteus is attracted to Sylvia, the young lady whom Valentine is wooing, and proceeds to betray Valentine so that he can get her - thereby betraying his best friend and his own girl-friend Julia, in the process. He takes after his New Olympian namesake in duplicity and unscrupulousness - except that at the end of the play, under Valentine's chiding, he reforms, something that I can't imagine the Proteus of "Gargoyles" doing (the Proteus of the play's own repentance comes across as unconvincing, one of the flaws of the play); I don't see him as an influence on the Proteus of "Gargoyles", though, but rather as both derived from the original Proteus of Greek mythology (who was a shape-shifter, but not a duplicitous one; it's easy, however, to interpret shape-shifters as false and treacherous).

The best part of the play is a sub-plot about a servant named Launce who is saddled with a dog named Crab, the worst-behaved dog in all literature (and maybe even of all time). Crab does everything from stealing food to lifting his hind leg next to Sylvia's skirt, as we find out when Launce tells him off for all his transgressions; needless to say, Crab is not the least bit sorry about them. (I once saw a stage production of "The Two Gentlemen of Verona" that added a lovely, though probably unintended touch; when Launce was talking about how Crab had stolen chickens from the duke's kitchen, Crab - played by a real dog on-stage - licked his chops at that moment.) I hope that Bronx, Boudicca, Fu-Dog and their fellow gargoyle beasts are far more well-behaved than that.

THE TWO NOBLE KINSMEN: Another little-known play; it didn't even become recognized as canon until lately, and seems to have been a collaboration written near the end of Shakespeare's career. It's an adaptation of "The Knight's Tale" from Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales", about two young noblemen named Palamon and Arcite, contemporaries of Theseus, who fall in love with the same lady, Emilia, Hippolyta's younger sister. Not likely to get directly into "Gargoyles" - though we know that Greg's fond of Theseus.

THE WINTER'S TALE: Also most likely will get in via quotes and namesake characters; I remember Bishansky giving an enthusiastic review here of a production of this play he'd seen a few years ago, with Keith David playing the part of King Leontes. (Incidentally, the part at the end of the play where Queen Hermione is posing as a statue is thought to have inspired the scene in "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" where Hermione is petrified by the basilisk; at least, Rowling's admitted that her Hermione was named after Shakespeare's Hermione.)

And that's the lot. Whew! It was fun writing, though, and if we get more "Gargoyles" stories in the future (fingers crossed, everyone), it'll be great to see what new elements from Shakespeare enter them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:05:02 pm EST from 4.244.211.55

If Gargoyles had been released as a movie like the Ghostbusters was then it would definitely be as recognizable as the Ghostbusters. Movies are able to reach a larger audience that an afternoon cartoon show.
Jasmine - [clarkejasmine05 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:23:06 pm EST from 24.44.200.14

The one known as Dasrik: That's the reason for the voice change? Lorenzo Music had more personality in the character than Dave Coulier ever could. Sure, Coulier was good at voices, but lacked the personality. Music had been writing comedy for decades going back to the Smothers Brothers comedy hour, Mary Tyler Moore(and of course, on Rhoda as voice of "Carleton The Doorman"(He even put out a record about Carleton the Doorman-which is cheesy as all get out, but a riot just the same).

Gormaine - Gargoyles didn't continue? I beg to differ. We've had the comics, we've had new t-shirts, a major statue release and another on the way. Not to mention a 13 year run of a Convention dedicated to the show. Don't know of Ghostbusters having it's own convention. It took a company like Time-Life to see the vision to release the Real Ghostbusters complete series as a box-and really do it up right when Sony couldn't be bothered-since it is an incredible box! Absolutely, Disney can learn from them, but so can a lot of other companies that let their properties waste away in the vaults, release syndicated prints or don't care to remaster old prints(Warner is getting bad for that with their animated TV properties)
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:38:56 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Algernon: Indeed. It's frequently pointed out. As I said, Murray is irritatingly catty when it comes to the Ghostbusters. The huge delay in coming out with Ghostbusters III was because of his unexplained resistance to get involved for years. I guess he thought making a boring "film festival" movie with Sofia Coppola was more important than the pop culture phenomenon with which he had a large part in creating.
The One Known as Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
blankpagewasalltheragenevermeanttosayanything...
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:35:29 pm EST from 108.0.96.227

Todd, funny you should mention Troilus and Cressida. I saw a version of that play a year ago by the RSC - first time I'd ever seen it. The man playing Ulysses could just as easily have been playing Xanatos - I'd heard about the similarities before, but never really understood until I saw that play. He even had a ponytail!
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:23:30 pm EST from 98.208.161.210

*rolls eyes*

Hey, cool! I get the Spectacular Spider-Man Season One on DVD for Christmas!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:52:20 pm EST from 70.237.207.132

GORMAIN> What does that any of that have to do with how old the series is? Look man, I'm guessing you're not a native English speaker, so you might be confusing the word "old" with something else. I suggest you go ask your English teacher to explain it to you before continuing this debate.
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:34:15 pm EST from 86.40.15.83

GORMAINE> Tell your friends to buy themselves a dictionary.

Or better yet, I think I'll apply your definition of the word "older" to my life.

I am older than my dead father. No, wait, I am older than my grandfather. I always wanted to be.

I am older than William Shakespeare.

I am older than ....

To hell with it, I am older than the Big Bang!

YAYE! I AM ANCIENT!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:31:00 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

then tell me why are they still making ghostbusters stuff, while Gargoyles stuff are nowhere to be found except for the comics that remain to order online or in a few comic book stores? my friends told me that gargoyles is an old show. tell me?
Gormaine.
Gormaine.
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:13:21 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

DASRIK> "They changed the voice because Bill Murray thought Venkman sounded too much like Garfield."

You can practically taste the irony.
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:41:13 am EST from 86.40.15.83

I'm amazed that we've been discussing "The Real Ghostbusters" for a few posts now at Christmas (and the day after) and nobody's yet mentioned the "Christmas Carol" episode of its first season (the Ghostbusters stumble through a time warp into early 19th century London, get the wrong idea about the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future when they confront Ebenezer Scrooge and trap them - then return to a modern world that no longer celebrates Christmas because the Ghostbusters changed history, and the hottest book on the stands is Scrooge's "A Christmas Humbug", which takes all the credit for the act and doesn't mention the Ghostbusters at all. It includes Scrooge's initial scepticism about the ghosts from Dickens' book - though expressed about Marley's Ghost in the original - as probably the result of indigestion, particularly the line "more of gravy than of the grave" about them.)

One of the syndicated episodes had the Ghostbusters meeting a vampire who, despite some surface similarities with Dracula, is a good guy who even drinks artificial blood, and who's being hunted by a fanatical vampire-hunter named Van Heldun, one of a family of vampire-hunters who were supposedly the originals for Bram Stoker's Van Helsing. Van Heldun felt almost like an animated precursor of the Canmore Hunters.

Back to "Shakespeare and Gargoyles".

TIMON OF ATHENS: One of Shakespeare's least-known plays (Greg Weisman once said that he's not familiar with it), and apparently never finished. Timon is an extremely wealthy and generous man in ancient Athens (approximately the time of the Peloponnesian Wars), who, unfortunately, is too generous; he's used up his entire estate in acts of philanthropy and is even heavily in debt, while ignoring all the warning signs (he doesn't have a good head for balancing the books). Then the creditors show up, Timon discovers the state of his financial situation, and asks all the people he'd helped for assistance. They refuse, and Timon is so shocked that he snaps, leaves Athens in a fury and settles in the wilds outside the city, cursing humanity in a manner that would impress Demona. When he accidentally discovers gold, he sees it as the perfect weapon for his revenge on humanity, bestowing it on everyone who comes by in the hopes that it will lead them to ruin. (Timon is briefly jolted from his cynicism and misanthropy when his old steward shows up at his door - he doesn't want gold, just to continue serving and helping Timon out of loyalty to him. Timon has to admit that not all humans are corrupt, though he turns the steward away.)

TITUS ANDRONICUS: Greg once wrote a ramble on this play, after seeing a movie adaptation of it (complete with the remark that "Tamora Queen of the Goths" - one of the play's characters - would make a great name for a "Gargoyles" character). Beyond Tamora's name, I don't think it's likely to turn up much in "Gargoyles". (For those who aren't familiar with it, it's an especially gory play set in ancient Rome, involving the trials of the title character, a great general disgraced by his ungrateful Emperor, who seeks revenge for his wrongs - one of his enemies is the afore-mentioned Tamora, and Titus murders her sons, makes them into a meat pie, and gives it to Tamora to eat. Yes, she eats it - perhaps mercifully, Titus runs her through immediately after telling her what the ingredients are. Tamora's not the main antagonist, though - just a pawn of the real antagonist, Aaron the Moor, who's almost a precursor of Iago in his gleeful scheming; when he's caught at the end of the play, he says he's not sorry for all the crimes he committed - he's sorry he didn't get to commit more. Greg once posted a cast list for a radio play he did for a never-made series he'd proposed called "Doc Shakespeare"; one of the characters in it was named "Aaron Moore".)

TROILUS AND CRESSIDA: Shakespeare's take on the Trojan War, an astonishingly cynical interpretation that demolishes almost everyone's reputation in the war, Greeks and Trojans alike. The title characters are a couple of lovers, a Trojan prince named Troilus (younger brother to Hector and Paris) and a young woman named Cressida whom he's fallen in love with; unfortunately, just as Cressida accepts Troilus's advances, she's delivered to the Greek camp (her father was a Trojan priest who can see the future, realized that the Greeks were going to win the war, and decided to desert to them so that he could get on their good side - and he wants his daughter back) - and, to make matters worse, transfers her affections to a Greek soldier named Diomedes almost as soon as she's arrived. Troilus, discovering their love-making, is horror-struck; he tries telling himself for a while that it's not really Cressida, that the real Cressida is faithful to him, but then realizes "Oh, who am I kidding?" He tries to get revenge on Diomedes in the following battle, but fails and is in a state of absolute frustration by the final scene of the play.

The sub-plot is a retelling of Achilles' withdrawal from the Trojan War as in the "Iliad", but with some debunking touches. Achilles withdraws here, not to protest Agamemnon's high-handedness as in Homer, but because he's become so conceited over his reputation as the greatest warrior among the Greeks that he won't take orders from anyone. Ulysses suggests bringing Achilles back into the war by having the Greeks turn all their attention to Ajax (the second greatest warrior in the Greek army) and ignoring Achilles; when Achilles asks Ulysses why everyone's just passing him with scarcely a glance, Ulysses explains that since he's no longer out on the battlefield, he's become yesterday's news, while Ajax, who's still fighting in the Trojan War, has replaced Achilles in the Greeks' esteem. But Ulysses' plan backfires, for now Ajax becomes so puffed up with praise that he refuses to fight in the war as well. Achilles is eventually brought back into the war when Hector slays Patroclus, as in Homer, but instead of chasing Hector three times around Troy and slaying him in single combat (Homer's version), waits until Hector, worn out with fighting, takes off his armor to rest, then sics his soldiers upon him to cut Hector to pieces, while standing back and supervising.

I'm certain that, if we get enough new stories, Greg Weisman will tackle the Trojan War legend at some point, but I think he's far more likely to consult Homer's "Iliad" and "Odyssey" than "Troilus and Cressida" for that story.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:37:09 am EST from 4.244.212.190

Wingless: They changed the voice because Bill Murray thought Venkman sounded too much like Garfield. He's always been kind of a thorn in the Ghostbusters producers' sides.
The One Known as Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
blankpagewasalltheragenevermeanttosayanything...
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:50:49 am EST from 108.0.96.227

In reference to The Real Ghostbusters - It was among the best of the 1980s series, in terms of writing. You got to know the personality of the characters, you even got to meet their parents, go to their home towns, understand their background and where they came from. We really get to know Peter Venkman's Dad throughout the series, for example-and where Peter gets his quick witted attitude from. The series also had the advantage of running on both Saturday morning and in syndication at the same time. Although they did have the BS & P restrictions from ABC, they had the freedom of the syndicated eps to experiment with more daring topics. They went and cheapened it when they added the poorly animated comedy "Slimer" segments into the fold in later seasons. As for "Extreme Ghostbusters" - A very good show, that sadly only lasted for 40 episodes. It never found the audience it should have. It was quite a bit darker than the original series - and brought back the original characters too(voices & All).
My question has always been - Lorenzo Music was the voice of Peter in the first few seasons of The Real Ghostbusters, but was replaced by *Gasp* Dave Coulier. There's never been an explanation given for the change. Music was still alive at this point so I've always wondered why he left the roll(The book in the DVD box set gives no indication-a gorgeous box set BTW).

Although I do love the series - it still doesn't hold a candle to Gargoyles to me. Both series do and can appeal to adults - but gargs just seems so much more....possible. ^_~ Hey, it's 3:30am - anything seems possible at this hour.
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:41:12 am EST from 99.245.254.123

@ Gormaine - You are entitled to your opinion but sorry when I think of Ghostbusters I think eighties. Many people never even heard of the Extreme Ghostbusters cartoon. Gargoyles is a much more modern thing.
Jasmine - [clarkejasmine05 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:15:12 am EST from 24.44.200.14

GORMAINE> If you have any money lying around, do yourself a favor and INVEST IN A DICTIONARY!

Words mean things. You can't just change around their definitions, or make crap up. All you're doing is making yourself look like an idiot. Stop it.

"Gargoyles" is older than "Ghostbusters" like Michael Jackson is older than Jesus.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:56:57 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

I guess that means Gargoyles is older than Ghostbusters... in the same way that red is bluer than yellow.
The One Known as Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
blankpagewasalltheragenevermeanttosayanything...
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:20:46 pm EST from 108.0.96.227

gargoyles was cancelled but ghostbusters continued, ghostbusters is still a modern series, gargoyles is old. extreme ghostbusters didn't even suck as bad and lasted longer than the Goliath Chronicles not that it was bad or sucked! in many ways Gargoyles is older.
Gormaine.
Gormaine.
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 10:12:14 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

GORMAIN> Sorry man, I'm not following you?
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 8:19:34 pm EST from 86.40.240.238

yes but gargoyles stopped while ghostbusters continued!
Gormaine.
Gormaine.
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:42:26 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

*sidenote* I meant "heart", not "hearts". No, I'm not Kakuzu, honest. xD
The One Known as Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
blankpagewasalltheragenevermeanttosayanything...
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:29:18 pm EST from 108.0.96.227

SPEN - Whoa, that takes me back! I remember that show from the 70's. (One of the earliest treatments of "Robin Hood" that I came across, though the earliest one was the Disney version - it took me some time to see Robin Hood and his friends and enemies in my mind's eye as humans rather than as animals, thanks to that being my introduction to them.)

I'll hold off on the next part of my "Shakespeare and Gargoyles" runthrough until tomorrow; the next three plays in alphabetical order are, in various ways, so dark or bleak that I don't like talking about them on Christmas. (You'll see what I mean when I get to them.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:14:55 pm EST from 4.244.208.107

Merry Christmas, Station 8. Though I don't come around as much as I used to, you guys are all still in my hearts and prayers.

New avatar because... I actually just forgot what Ophelia looked like, LOL.
The One Known as Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
blankpagewasalltheragenevermeanttosayanything...
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 6:38:28 pm EST from 108.0.96.227

GORMAIN> "Gargoyles also is a very old series. actually older than ghostbusters."

Huh? The first Ghostbusters movie premetered in 1984, Gargoyles didn't hit the airwaves 'til a whole decade later in '94.
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 6:24:05 pm EST from 86.41.106.229

no gargoyles is just as good, but for now it doesn't seem like we're getting an animated feature so i thought why not a video game to continue the series. Gargoyles also is a very old series. actually older than ghostbusters.
Gormaine.
Gormaine.
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 5:59:41 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

Gormaine: I'd love to see a Gargoyles game just like the Ghostbusters game, using all of the original voice talent. I own it for the Wii and it was a great experience playing through it. But I think Ghostbusters, though an older property, is more popular and a lot of people have been waiting for this exact game for a long time. Ghostbusters lends itself to a game better than Gargoyles would, honestly. If we're going to get all of the original voice actors back together again, might as well do an animated feature...
The Barracuda
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 5:00:38 pm EST from 204.174.35.47

TODD> "Did anybody besides me, when they first heard about the movie "Avatar" (since Matt mentioned it) initially confuse it with the upcoming movie adaptation of the Nickelodeon cartoon also called "Avatar"? (Maybe that's why they're calling the movie adaptation "The Last Airbender" or something like that.)"

You're not the only one who got mixed up...

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/bum-reviews/15043-ep036

Personally, I think James Cameron should have just called it "Planet of The Smurfy-Cats" or something. Aang and co. had the name first.
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 4:29:31 pm EST from 86.41.106.229

well i hope disney would consider doing a gargoyles videogame or a gargoyles online. oh and a hazppy new year to all!
Gormaine.
Gormaine.
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 4:22:27 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

A Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it!
Madame M
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 3:41:51 pm EST from 99.142.9.147

Sorry, that last comment was me.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 2:00:08 pm EST from 71.204.227.228

"Did anybody besides me, when they first heard about the movie "Avatar" (since Matt mentioned it) initially confuse it with the upcoming movie adaptation of the Nickelodeon cartoon also called "Avatar"? (Maybe that's why they're calling the movie adaptation "The Last Airbender" or something like that.)"

Todd: That did throw me off for a bit, but not long. However, the name was not changed- the show was always called Avatar: The Last Airbender, since it started in 2005.

Merry Christmas to all, by the way. The only relevant present I got was Spectacular Spider-Man season 1. I also got a digital video camera, and my brother helped me set up some video editing software. I've got some ideas for some Gargoyles related videos that have been knocking around in my head for a couple years, so I'll be sure to share when I get them done.
Anonymous
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 1:59:20 pm EST from 71.204.227.228

I just got the Ghostbusters Videogame and i played it for a while and it made me wonder about what a Gargoyles videogame would be like, you know, since the comics and the tv show aren't going anywhere for now, why not continue the story in a video game, it'll be cool, to control Goliath, Brooklyn, Hudson, Broadweay, Lexington, Angela, Bronx, Elisa, and maybe even spiderman in a bonus level based on the radio script greg did for the gathering, and for the first time you could hear shari's voice and the other character's voices as well. Also what about a Gargoyles Online, you know like world of warcraft or star wars galaxies or pirates of the caribbean online. Where you get to be part of the Gargoyles universe, you get to chose to be a gargoyle or a human, if you do several tasks and missions you get to be a child of oberon, you can join many factions in Gargoyles online The nypd, the quarrymen, the gargoyles taskforce, the illuminati., you get to make your own clans, you can join tony dracon's gang, you can make your own gang, or more. if i was on gargoyles online i'd have two characters,gargoyle and a human, steve (last name named something after lost like how castaway is named after gilligans island) who is a quarryman), would any of you go and buy this? these two ideas would be so awesome. and i think are what should be done!
Gormaine.
Gormaine.
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 1:36:39 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Phoenician : You forgot my favourite Robin Hood interpretation: "When Things Were Rotten".
Spen
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:34:43 am EST from 66.43.205.35

Merry Christmas, everybody!

A few more Shakespeare plays this morning.

ROMEO AND JULIET: We know that Terry and Sphinx are intended as Romeo and Juliet counterparts, and that Queen Mab (probably Shakespeare's best-known perpetually off-stage character) will be showing up as Oberon's mother and predecessor. And we got two quotes from the play in the library scene in "The Journey".

THE TAMING OF THE SHREW: Greg Weisman once mentioned having mixed feelings about it (he didn't say why, though I suspect it's over the whole "is Petruchio's shrew-taming brutal?" controversy). It recently occurred to me that there might be a slight parallel with the events already in "Gargoyles"; the shrew's name is Katherine, and Princess Katharine was initially decidedly shrewish towards the gargoyles, but in the course of the series changed her attitude towards them, to the point where she became a loving foster-mother to thirty-six gargoyle hatchlings (and gave Demona a real taste of "Don't Mess with the Momma" in "Avalon Part Three"). I think it's just a coincidence, though.

THE TEMPEST: This one will obviously have to get in at some point, after "Macbeth" and "A Midsummer Night's Dream" did; and we know from Greg that Prospero, Ariel, and Caliban will all be showing up in "Gargoyles", though we know almost nothing about their depiction in the Gargoyles Universe (apart from Prospero taking up magic again after breaking his staff and drowning his books, surviving into the modern world, and being ready to try experimenting on whether humans and gargoyles can have offspring, like Sevarius - an unsettling possibility, though Shakespeare's Prospero himself does have some dark aspects - and that Caliban would, in some form or other, have a role in Brooklyn's TimeDancing). More than this, I'm not prepared to guess at. (Angela's response to the outside world in the Avalon World Tour does evoke Miranda's "O brave new world!" tone, as well - and both Angela and Miranda were brought up on remote magical islands.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:48:48 am EST from 4.244.210.173

Merry Christmas everyone
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 25, 2009 4:27:30 am EST from 92.14.249.192

@ The Barracuda, I can't understand the old English they use. So its hard to follow the story but I will give it a shot.
Jasmine - [clarkejasmine05 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:31:55 pm EST from 24.44.200.14

Merry Luda-Christmas, everyone!!!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:14:31 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

Harlan -- Landon mentions the first issue of the miniseries hitting shelves sometime April next year.

Todd -- I too thought the same thing about Avatar thinking it was the same as the trailer I had seen for the Last Airbender . . . I think what helped in the confusion was me forgetting when the Nick-movie is coming out next year and not this winter d:

Robin Hood -- I'd look forward to any story of Robin in Gargoyles I think because there's so little modern version of him anyways . . . besides the Disney film and the Men in Tights satire . . . if I remember right, they are planning a live action film to hit screens in the next year or so, but don't hold me to that >_>

Just finished baking some eight-dozen-plus cookies for the holidays . . . **drops off virtual copy at the cookie table** Enjoy!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:29:52 pm EST from 70.190.65.34

Did anybody besides me, when they first heard about the movie "Avatar" (since Matt mentioned it) initially confuse it with the upcoming movie adaptation of the Nickelodeon cartoon also called "Avatar"? (Maybe that's why they're calling the movie adaptation "The Last Airbender" or something like that.)

More of the "Adapting Shakespeare Plays to Gargoyles" thoughts:

OTHELLO: This one definitely got in, via the ColdTrio. (I still think it's a bit of a pity that the mention of Xanatos and Fox's evening out being to a production of Verdi's "Otello" never made it into the televised version of "Possession"; it was so utterly appropriate.)

PERICLES: One of Shakespeare's lesser-known romances (it didn't even make it into the First Folio, and seems to have been a collaboration), though Greg Weisman is fond of it, saying that it really turns him on. Pericles, the hero of the title (who has nothing to do with the Athenian statesman, by the way), gets involved in a series of adventures, including winning the hand of a princess named Thaisa in a tournament, only to lose her some time after their marriage when she apparently dies during childbirth while they're in the middle of a storm at sea (she really went into a coma) and is given a sea burial in a coffin which floats to a nearby town, where a skilled doctor revives her. Pericles leaves their daughter (the same infant that Thaisa gave birth to during the storm) Marina (no relation to Ms. Sirtis) with friends; Marina grows up there, and overshadows their own daughter, prompting the aforesaid friends to try getting rid of her (their behavior being even more despicable because earlier in the play, Pericles had brought them great quantities of food when their city was struck by a heavy famine). Fortunately Marina is rescued, reunited with her father, and both of them with Thaisa afterwards. I don't know as yet whether any of that might be adapted to the Gargoyles Universe, though you could, if you're straining really hard, call for a comparison between the father-daughter reunion in this play and Goliath and Angela's reunion (if you can call it that when Angela and her siblings were still eggs when Goliath parted with them) in "Avalon" and the ensuing World Tour.

RICHARD II: The first of Shakespeare's "Wars of the Roses" history cycle from the point of view of internal chronology (though Shakespeare wrote the Henry VI plays and "Richard III" many years before he wrote "Richard II"). Richard II is a vain and conceited king, who so hopelessly mismanages England that his cousin, Henry Bolingbroke, finally leads a rebellion against him. Bolingbroke overthrows Richard easily, partly because most of the English are so fed up with Richard's misrule that they'll gladly support Bolingbroke, partly because Richard's response to learning about the revolt is, not to try putting it down, but to enter a heavy bout of self-pity, saying things like "For God's sake let us sit upon the ground/ And tell sad stories of the death of kings....", to the exasperation of the few faithful followers he has, who urge him to do something. (Indeed, at times it seems less as if Bolingbroke's deposing Richard, and more as if Richard's pushing the crown onto him as part of his reveling in angst.) Bolingbroke becomes King as Henry IV (the same Henry IV who'll have Prince Hal as a son; in the last Act of the play, he's shown worriedly discussing Hal's hijinks in the taverns with a few advisors as a set-up for "Henry IV Part One"), and Richard is locked up in a remote castle. However, Richard's last few friends try to free him and depose Henry; the scheme fails but Henry is so alarmed that (in a scene that Shakespeare or his sources evidently stole from Henry II and Thomas Becket) he wishes aloud, without really thinking, that someone would solve the Richard problem. One of his knights overhears him, and eager to please, goes to the castle, kills Richard, and presents his body to a horrified Henry - then wonders why Henry, instead of thanking him, has him banished from the kingdom. The play ends with Henry IV, shaken over having helped bring about Richard's murder, vowing to make amends by going on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem (as anyone who's read or seen the "Henry IV" plays knows, he never makes it there).

If "Richard II" has any influence on future "Gargoyles" stories, quotes from the more poetic speeches is the most likely form it'll take. Though Richard has three advisors (two of whom get executed by Bolingbroke; the third one survives for a while longer) named Bushy, Bagot, and Green - names that seem almost perfect for some trio of minor characters.

RICHARD III: Like "Henry IV Part One" and "Henry V", one history play that needs no introduction. If "Gargoyles" ever does handle Richard, it'll be fun to see what take Greg Weisman uses on him: Shakespeare's version (the villainous, scheming hunchback who likes gloating to the audience about hsi schemes) or the more recent "maligned by the Tudors" interpretation popularized by such works as Josephine Tey's "Daughter of Time". (I've already mused on the possibility of Macbeth meeting Richard; it's especially appropriate with both plays being about guys who scheme and murder their way to the throne and then lose it - though Shakespeare's Macbeth is more complex than his Richard III - as much difference between them as between, say, Demona and the Archmage.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:03:46 pm EST from 4.244.214.120

Landon> That reminds me, when is Mecha Nation even coming out?
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:30:10 pm EST from 76.2.94.66

Hey everybody, just wanted to wish you all a merry mid winter festival of your choice! :D
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 4:31:41 pm EST from 86.40.2.120

Jasmine: Yeah, I've never been a fan of Shakespeare myself, but the Gargoyles universe is very cleanly and brilliantly interwoven with most of his works. It's nice to see an animated show, or any show for that matter, that can actually get someone out to read classic pieces of literature. I think Todd Jensen's provided a lot of starting points for you to...well, start with.
The Barracuda
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 3:55:37 pm EST from 204.174.35.47

Enjoy the Holidays!!! I am on my way to the bookstore to try and read Shakespeare so maybe I can understand some of what Todd Jensen is talking about. LOL!
Jasmine - [clarkejasmine05 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 3:21:59 pm EST from 170.28.4.4

Merry Christmas, all.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 12:35:35 pm EST from 99.177.172.217

Happy Christmas Eve, everyone!

The next few Shakespeare plays:

THE MERRY WIVES OF WINDSOR: This one includes Falstaff (plus Bardolph, Pistol, and Mistress Quickly in supporting roles - though the Mistress Quickly of "Merry Wives" has little more in common with the Mistress Quickly of the "Henry IV" plays than her name, being here an employee of the local doctor rather than a tavern-keeper), so some elements of it could eventually get into "Gargoyles" (most likely through "Bad Guys", of course). Indeed, we saw that play mentioned in "The Spectacular Spider-Man", when Aunt May and Anna Watson were planning to see it before it was called on account of attack from the Sinister Six; I still wonder whether Greg might have chosen that specific Shakespeare play for the episode because he was working on "Bad Guys" at the same time. (Note that the actor playing Falstaff in that same episode is talking to someone named "Sydney" on his cell phone - and Dingo comes from Sydney. An in-joke at work here?)

Of course, the Falstaff of "The Merry Wives of Windsor" differs from that of "Henry IV" in a dramatic way, being far more easily duped; I've mentioned before that Falstaff buffs often regard that play much the same way that most of us regard "The Goliath Chronicles". One theory is that it stems from the genre difference; in the history plays, Falstaff serves as a means of puncturing the pretensions of the nobles fighting for power, but there are none about in the domestic comedy tone of "The Merry Wives of Windsor", which naturally means a different role - in which the Merry Wives of the title (Mistress Page and Mistress Ford - best described as an Elizabethan version of Lucy and Ethel) get the better of him. (Falstaff, short of money, decides to make love to them because their husbands are rich, and sends them both identical love letters; Mistress Page and Mistress Ford note their striking similarity and comment that he's probably got a thousand of those letters at home, all with "Insert Name Here" blanks. Needless to say, they have no interest in taking him on as a lover, but decide to pretend to so that they can play a series of pranks on him, such as getting him to hide in a laundry basket that they then dump into the river.) Since the play seems to be set during Elizabeth I's reign rather than Henry IV's, I've sometimes speculated that there might be a "Black Adder" phenomenon at work here, though Shakespeare probably didn't have that in mind.

Near the end of the play, Herne, the leader of the Wild Hunt in English folklore, is mentioned, and I wouldn't be too surprised if he shows up in "Gargoyles" someday (again, thanks to the "every legend will get in, in time"), especially since we already know that one off-stage Shakespearean fantasy creature (Queen Mab) will be showing up.

A MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM: Like "Macbeth", this play needs hardly any explanation. Oberon, Titania, and Puck are now well-established characters, though we don't know as yet if the Bottom incident really did take place in the Gargoyles Universe or not. (I've sometimes speculated that, if it did, Puck had something to do with Shakespeare finding out about it.) We know that Greg Weisman sees the little Indian boy whom Oberon and Titania were quarrelling over as a half-human son of Oberon's, though we don't know if he'll ever appear on-stage in "Gargoyles". (We also know that Theseus, who appears in this play, is one of Greg's favorite legendary characters - and got an off-stage allusion in "The New Olympians".)

I haven't seen Season Two of "The Spectacular Spider-Man", but I know that "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is involved in it - two plays in a row on this list that show up in "The Spectacular Spider-Man", and in the same order as on my alphabetical order list. Weird, isn't it?

MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING: We know that Greg likes this play, though most of the ideas he's mentioned having for it were for "non-Gargoyles" ideas. Though we also know that Greg sees Brooklyn and Katana as having a relationship much like Benedick and Beatrice's (though probably not as deliberate influence, since it's a common concept - I remember that his original comparison was to Sam and Dianne from "Cheers"). The play also features another bastard, Don John, who's in the same "scheming villain" mode as Edmund and Thailog, though unlike them, he's more of a plot-device character set up to explain why Claudio thinks that Hero's unfaithful to him, who then disappears (to be arrested off-stage after his scheme gets out) once his role is done.

Again, more to come later.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:35:43 am EST from 4.244.215.214

Just saw Avatar. Loved it. Great movie.

Not Gargoyles related, but I wanted to share that.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Thu, Dec 24, 2009 12:30:23 am EST from 70.237.202.79

Patrick> Too Funny!

Algernon> Yup. That's it.
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 9:54:30 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

I suspect that, by Robin Hood's time, the only English gargoyles left were the London clan. Greg mentioned once that Robin Hood was a human in the Gargoyles Universe - of course, that doesn't mean he didn't have occasional help from gargoyles. (We know that one legendary British hero *did* have aid from gargoyles - King Arthur - so maybe Robin Hood did as well.)

It's been commented that many modern takes on Robin Hood owe something to Ivanhoe; Robin's often portrayed as going off on the Crusades with King Richard and returning to find trouble at home, just as Ivanhoe did. (BOOM! Comics recently did a Muppets take on "Robin Hood", in which Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham's style of tyranny is to set up overpriced tourist traps all over England - sometimes literal tourist traps - such as the world's largest Venus Fly-Trap or a Museum dedicated entirely to socks - with the hint that all those socks on display are the ones that go missing in the dryer. And it, too, began, with Robin Hood - played by Kermit - returning from the Crusades to find the old pond at Locksley in a mess.)

Continuing with the plays....

MACBETH: This one is obvious, of course - one of the biggest Shakespeare plays in "Gargoyles", with ties to Macbeth, Demona, the Weird Sisters, and the Hunters. (We even have the namesake figures of Banquo and Fleance.) We know that Greg had planned that "Weird Macbeth" two-parter, in which the cast is stuck doing "Macbeth"; I've sometimes wondered whether that story could bring in the famous theater superstition about "Macbeth" (it would *have* to get into "Gargoyles" at some point, obviously, particularly in light of the "every legend gets in eventually" rule - it's a modern legend, but so are the Illuminati and the "ancient astronauts" theory about the stone heads on Easter Island). I also recently wondered who'd play the Three Witches in that story; would Luna, Phoebe, and Selene return from Avalon, on leave from the Gathering, to reprise their roles, or would three unfortunate mortal females (whether human or gargoyle) be stuck with the parts?

(One "Macbeth"-related scene that we'll never see. Demona somehow gets a gargoyle beast named Spot, but he turns out to be thoroughly undisciplined. He rampages through her house, demolishing the furniture and chewing up several priceless centuries-old spell books and other magical artifacts. At last, Demona has had enough; she opens the front door and shoves the gargoyle beast through it, saying, as she does so - no, that one's way too obvious, and cliched.)

MEASURE FOR MEASURE: Another of Shakespeare's problem plays. In this one, the Duke of Vienna decides to go away for a while on holiday and asks one of his nobles, Angelo, to take care of things in his absence. Angelo, an extremely upright and strict man (so upright and strict that people claim he has ice-water in his veins rather than blood) decides that it's time to crack down on all the vice and immorality in the city, and starts hauling people in for trial. One of these is a young man named Claudio, who was engaged to a young lady named Juliet (Shakespeare often reused names). Unfortunately, the wedding was delayed while their relatives argued over the dowry, Claudio and Juliet got tired of waiting - and now Julia's pregnant. Angelo decides to sentence Claudio to death with a "No excuses!" attitude, even though Claudio fully intends to marry Juliet just as soon as the dowry arguments are over. Claudio's friends, alarmed, beg his sister Isabella, who's about to enter a nunnery, to plead to Angelo for mercy - unfortunately, she's just as puritanical as Angelo (in her very first scene, she's asking the abbess at the nunnery about the discipline for the nuns - concerned, not that it might be too strict, but not strict enough), and only reluctantly agrees. Doubly unfortunately, Angelo, to his consternation, finds himself attracted to Isabella, and finally tells her in private that he'll pardon Claudio, if she'll sleep with him. Isabella refuses in disgust and outrage. Claudio, when he learns of her decision, initially applauds it, but then thinks about the horrors of death and begs her to reconsider; Isabella gives him a fierce tongue-lashing and says that she hopes Angelo does indeed execute him. And at this point, the Duke, who hadn't really gone away on holiday and is lurking about the city in disguise, hears about this and decides to get involved....

I don't think that this play is likely to get into "Gargoyles" much beyond a few quotes; then again, I don't even know what Greg thinks of it. As far as I know, he's never mentioned it at "Ask Greg".

THE MERCHANT OF VENICE: I've mentioned before Demona and Shylock having an archetypal similarity, though I think it a coincidence. I don't think we'll be seeing her demand a pound of flesh from anyone, at least - nor do I think that, in the story where they debate whether to give Goliath a trial or not, his lawyer will be named Portia.... But we may get a few allusions to or quotes from "The Merchant of Venice" in future "Gargoyles" stories; we'll have to wait and see.

More plays to come.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 7:08:18 pm EST from 4.244.210.220

And Coldstone as Will Scarlet? "I must protest! I am NOT a Merry Man!"
Patrick - [<-- T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 5:25:05 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

Wow, reading all this makes me want to try and read Shakespeare. I was always intimidated by their use of the old english language. Didn't think I would be able to comprehend.
Jasmine - [clarkejasmine05 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 4:51:35 pm EST from 170.28.4.4

Cheeks Galloway has the first rough sketch of his Mecha-Nation variant cover: http://cheeks-74.deviantart.com/art/Mecha-Nation-cover-roughs-147752065 So does that mean this cover is by Greg Guler? http://makampo.blogspot.com/2009/09/ape-entertainment-launches-young-reader.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 2:09:15 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

BATTLE BEAST> '"Star Trek: TNG" did an episode where Q sends the crew into the Holodeck. Picard iS Robin Hood, and Riker is Little John. I think Q is The Sherrif, but i haven't seen it in a while.'

You mean this one?

http://sfdebris.com/videos/t194.asp
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 12:31:55 pm EST from 86.40.248.14

I've always had a thought that the legend of Sherwood Forest being haunted was attributed to a Clan of (English) gargoyles residing there. And I always thought it would've been cool if Robin and his band had allied with this Clan.
Though, come to think of it, any English Clans at the time (assuming any were extant besides the London Clan) would've been deep in hiding at that point. Well, who knows.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 11:20:14 am EST from 70.237.202.79

@ battle Beast> Ivanhoe....yikes that takes me back. I read it so long ago! I believe... there was a movie, one of those classics and I'm pretty sure Elizabeth Taylor played the role of daughter of the Jewish man. Rebekah? My father was given that book back in 1935 on his tenth birthday! Ok so, list of things to keep me occupied...Get out the Gargoyle DVDs...Get in a little of the Bard, Find the stinkin book. I don't think that Ivanhoe hid in the forest like Robin Hood. Have you read the book Hood by Lawhead? Another thing I've been meaning to get to. Real life doth interfere with fun at times.
Madame M
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 10:58:23 am EST from 99.135.168.9

Before Todd Posted about "King John" I had a "Creativity Demon" of my own:

I thought it would be neat to see Brooklyn Time-Dance to Sherwood Forrest and help (Or maybe even help on the sly) Robin Hood.

"Star Trek: TNG" did an episode where Q sends the crew into the Holodeck. Picard iS Robin Hood, and Riker is Little John. I think Q is The Sherrif, but i haven't seen it in a while.

On the flip side, the "gargs" episode COULD be like a dream where the Sherrif LOOKS like Xanatos and Friar Tuck LOOKS like Broadway, ETC. Goliath as Little John? (In keeping with the joke. ANgela or Elisa as Maid Marian.

I have always like the stories of Robin Hood; In fact, I was able to, at our main branch of the Edmonton Public library, read a 1st edition copy of Robin Hood by Howard Pyle.

I wonder if there were any Bristish Gargoyles around Robin Hoods time? Did they use bows and arrows?

By the By, does anyone know the difference between Robin Hood and Ivanhoe?
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 10:43:59 am EST from 75.159.239.62

MADAME M - Thanks.

PHOENICIAN - I've sometimes wondered who'd be going after Margot, in that hypothetical "let's kill all the lawyers" situation. Demona's one possible candidate, in light of Margot's outspoken anti-gargoyle stance (it would make an interesting confrontation, since both were voiced by Marina Sirtis). So are Bishansky's hypothetical pro-gargoyle zealots, though we haven't seen any in canon yet. (After writing that section yesterday, I realized that the story Greg Weisman wanted to tell about the big debate on whether to give Goliath a trial or not - since a lot of humans in New York aren't ready to accept the notion of gargoyles as anything more than savage beasts - would certainly have led to on-stage lawyers.)

I also forgot to mention, in my section on "Hamlet", that the line "One may smile, and smile, and be a villain" seems almost written to be applied to Xanatos - though I've mentioned it here a couple of times before, long ago, so it probably doesn't matter.

On with the plays....

KING JOHN: Another of Shakespeare's lesser-known history plays. Like "Henry VIII", it leaves out the things that the title character is most famous for: in John's case, the Magna Carta and his going after Robin Hood during his Prince John days. (Though their absence may not be so surprising. In Shakespeare's day, the Magna Carta wasn't that important; it didn't secure its position in the minds of Englishmen as a great guardian of liberties until a few decades later, during the clashes with Charles I that led to the English Civil War and his beheading. And the notion of Robin Hood as a contemporary of Richard the Lion-hearted and John is a relatively late development in his story, probably popularized by Sir Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe".) Instead, the play focuses on the struggle over the English throne between John and his little nephew Arthur, the son of John's older (now deceased) brother Geoffrey, whom many people see as the rightful King of England. John finally captures Arthur, locks him up in a tower, and then privately tells one of his henchmen, a man named Hubert de Burgh, to dispose of the boy. Hubert, however, in a manner almost reminiscent of the Queen's Huntsman in "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs", can't bring himself to do it, and so only pretends to the king that he killed Arthur. John, upon receiving the news, gathers his barons together and, with a suitable display of crocodile tears, tells them that poor little Arthur has just died. He tries to make it sound as if Arthur died from natural causes, but the barons are understandably suspicious, and unwilling to serve a king who would murder a child, even a child who's a major rival to the throne. John starts to suspect that a dead Arthur could be even more dangerous to him than a living Arthur, and proceeds to (once the barons are out of hearing range) tell Hubert off for killing the boy; when Hubert protests that John told him to, John retorts that kings often say things like that that they don't really mean (something he ought to know about, in light of the case of his father and Thomas Becket). Hubert finally admits that he didn't kill Arthur, and John, instead of being angry at him for disobeying orders, is relieved, telling Hubert to run after the barons and tell them the good news, in the hopes that it might rekindle their loyalty to him. Unfortunately for John, Arthur is planning to escape from the tower at that moment, but misjudges the distance from the tower window to the ground when he jumps and breaks his neck. The barons find his body lying there and are horrified, naturally convinced that his uncle had something to do with it. At that point, as they're gathered around Arthur's body, Hubert runs up to them, saying "Good news, everyone! Arthur isn't dead after all - hey, what's everyone staring at? Oh." After this, the barons desert to the French king who's making plans to invade England to place either Arthur or another of his relatives (if Arthur is dead) on the throne in John's place - uncomfortably aware that it's helping a foreign invader, but even that sounds better than serving a king who'd (they think) murder a child.

The most "Gargoyles"-relevant part of the play is the character of Philip Faulconbridge, one of John's chief supporters. We know that Greg Weisman's fond of the bastard archetype, and Faulconbridge is one of Shakespeare's leading bastards (in the literal sense), alongside Edmund from "King Lear". The difference is that Faulconbridge is a much nobler figure than the scheming Edmund; he's the illegitimate son of Richard the Lion-hearted, who's clearly inherited his father's military prowess, and added onto it a wry sense of humor. During the battles that John fights, Faulconbridge participates with a lot of gusto and valor (more so than John, who's portrayed as weak and cowardly); in particular, he's one of the few English leaders who doesn't desert after Arthur's death (at one point telling off the English barons who sided with the French king, saying that while he's not too happy about Arthur's death either, going over to a guy invading England is even worse - fortunately, the barons finally come to their senses and return to John, after discovering that the French king has plans to get rid of them once they've outlived their usefulness - another example, like the Wyvern Massacre, of the dangers of bringing an outside enemy in to solve an internal dispute). Shakespeare even gives Faulconbridge at the end one of his best-known patriotic speeches: "This England never did, nor never shall,/ Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror,/ But when it first did help to wound itself./ Now these her princes are come home again,/ Come the three corners of the world in arms,/ And we shall shock them. Nought shall make us rue,/ If England to itself do rest but true." As I said, given Greg Weisman's interest in bastards, it would be fun to see what he might make of someone like Faulconbridge.

(I've sometimes wondered what official name Arthur would have borne if he *had* become king, especially after reading Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy stories, set in an alternate universe where Richard the Lion-hearted passed the throne on to Arthur rather than to John; in them, Arthur, who proved one of England's greatest kings, soon became understandably confused with Arthur Pendragon.)

KING LEAR: One quote from this play already, in the form of Xanatos's "Reason not the need" line in "Vows" (a cheeky quote; in the original play, Lear's saying it to one of his daughters, and Xanatos is saying it to his father, reversing the father-child relationship). We know that Edmund is Greg's favorite Shakespearean character, and probably a subconscious influence on Thailog. I don't know if we'll see more of the play than that in "Gargoyles" (the King Lear story is based on an actual British legend going back to Geoffrey of Monmouth, though in Geoffrey's version, Cordelia restores her father to the throne and he lives in peace for three years before dying in bed; she still comes to a tragic end, but after his death - another example, as in "Hamlet", of Shakespeare making the ending more tragic).

LOVE'S LABOR'S LOST: One of Shakespeare's lesser-known comedies (partly because of a lot of topical references to Elizabethan politics that have dated the play), though we know that Greg likes it and even did some (non-"Gargoyles") writing on it. The play's about a king and three of his nobles who decide to go into reclusion for a few years and quietly study; two of the nobles like the idea, but the third one, Berowne, the most intelligent and witty of the four, dislikes it (for one thing, the regimen calls for them to be up at dawn to study, while he likes sleeping in in the mornings). He points out one big problem: the rules say that they're to have no women around during this time, but the daughter of a neighboring king is due to arrive at court for an important state visit and they can't turn her away. "I'd forgotten about that!" groans the king, and decides he'll have to put the "no women" rule on hold to receive her. He and the princess proceed to fall in love with her, while the princess has three ladies-in-waiting, each of whom falls in love with one of the king's nobles and vice versa; in the best touch of all, the most intelligent of her ladies-in-waiting, Rosaline, falls in love with Berowne and vice versa.

One of the play's main focuses is on language; there are a group of comic relief attendants at court (such as an eccentric Spanish knight named Armado, who's almost a precursor to Don Quixote, and a pedantic scholar named Holofernes) who cheerfully mangle the English language with lots of long words (someone comments at one point that they've "been at a great feast of languages, and stolen the scraps"). At one point, Holofernes comments disapprovingly of Armado's way of pronouncing various words (reflecting changes in the English language taking place in Shakespeare's time), about how he says "doubt" or "debt" without pronouncing the "b" in them, concluding with "This is abhominable - which he would call 'abominable'". In contrast, Berowne realizes in the course of wooing Rosaline that plain English works better than fancy English for the job, and so promises her that he'll only speak to her in plain English; he then proceeds to say "My love to thee is sound, sans [fancy English for "without"] crack or flaw". Rosaline points out to him that "sans" is one of those fancy English words he's promised not to use any more, to which Berowne sheepishly apologizes.

The play ends with Armado, Holofernes, and a few of their friends putting on a performance for the court of "the Nine Worthies of the World" (nine famous legendary or historical leaders of antiquity: Hector of Troy, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Joshua, King David, Judas Maccabeeus, King Arthur, Charlemagne, and Godfrey de Bouillon, an early leader in the Crusades); it's on much the same level as Bottom and his friends putting on "Pyramus and Thisbe" for Theseus and Hippolyta in "A Midsummer Night's Dream", except with more arguments with their courtly audience. When Holofernes, for example, comes on as Judas Maccabeeus and introduces himself, the courtiers at once cry "Judas!" in disapproval, and refuse to listen to him when he protests, "No, not that one! I'm Judas Maccabeeus, not Judas Iscariot!" The most oddball casting of all for the performance was the role of Hercules (not in the above list of Nine Worthies; apparently there was a mix-up), who is played by Armado's little page boy Moth; Moth is clearly physically unsuited to the role, but they ingeniously solve that by having him play Hercules as a baby, and giving him a couple of toy snakes to strangle. (I saw a performance of "Love's Labor's Lost" once in which Moth was having an especially great time with that, constantly upstaging Holofernes with his stuffed snake at every opportunity until Holofernes was thoroughly exasperated.)

As I said, we know that Greg really likes this play, but I don't know whether it'll find much room in "Gargoyles" (beyond maybe a couple of quotes).

More plays to come.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 7:47:20 am EST from 4.244.212.127

"As an Assistant District Attorney, Margot Yale might count - though the "kill all the lawyers" sentiment would be overreacting, even for her." -- Todd

Uh . . . no, no it wouldn't ;) Especially when Macbeth's already imagined to burning her at the stake (kinda makes me wonder how Brendan feels at this point) d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 1:36:51 am EST from 70.190.65.34

@ Todd, the resident shakespearean expert: I gotta admit I wasn't a huge fan. However, you've ignited another spark. I can see I will be busy over the next few weeks...
Madame M
posted @ Wed, Dec 23, 2009 12:05:27 am EST from 99.135.175.15

A bunch of new stuff on Mecha-Nation including pics: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24156

The first issue will be out in April. They mention "an eventual 'Mecha-Nation' ongoing", hopefully meaning 3 issues now and a regular series later.

Quote:
The teen superhero book was originally announced as part of SLG Publishing's lineup due to the fact that writer Greg Weisman continued his Disney series "Gargoyles" at the longtime indie fixture, but the project instead ended up at KiZoic thanks to Hedgecock's artistic involvement with "Gargoyles." "It was definitely my relationship with Greg Weisman (I drew about 6 issues of the 'Gargoyles' comic that he wrote for SLG) that brought 'Mecha-Nation' to us," he explained. "When Dan at SLG couldn't make the book fit into his publishing plan, we asked to step in and take over. Vic Cook, Greg Guler, and Greg Weisman liked our ideas, liked the artists we wanted to bring in and so, with Dan's blessing, we brought the project over to Ape/KiZoic where it has been a perfect fit.

"We're launching 'Mecha-Nation' as our first title because it's brilliant. Greg, Vic & Greg have built a comic that's this new, shiny, sparkling, fresh take on super powers. It's everything that all of us older guys had when we were kids and someone handed us Jim Lee's 'X-Men' or Liefeld's 'Youngblood' or McFarlane's 'Spider-Man.' It's that thing that gets young readers excited and hooked on comics. 'Mecha-Nation' is really that good."
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 10:23:16 pm EST from 216.250.163.157

Madame M - welcome to the room.
No need to "Find" all the episodes. Season one, and season two, volume one have been released on DVD. It's not everything, but it gets you started into the wrold tour. Honestly, the only way Disney will wake up and put out Season Two, Vol. 2 is if people start buying the first 2 sets.
Plus, by buying them, you get a peek at some of us crazies at the Gathering(thankfully, I never made it on film-I break cameras)
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 8:14:29 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Erratum: in the paragraph on "Henry VIII", "reassured history" should be "real history". (I wish that we could edit these posts after catching those mistakes in them.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 7:12:35 pm EST from 4.244.215.26

More of my "Shakespeare and Gargoyles" ramblings.

HENRY VI PARTS ONE, TWO, AND THREE: The "Henry VI" plays are among Shakespeare's least-known history plays (alongside "King John" and "Henry VIII"), and would be even less well-known if they weren't part of the eight-part "Wars of the Roses" cycle. The three parts of "Henry VI" and "Richard III" were Shakespeare's original tetralogy about the civil wars in 15th century England; later on, he wrote a prequel tetralogy: "Richard II", "Henry IV Parts One and Two", and "Henry V". A bit like George Lucas and "Star Wars", except that in Shakespeare's case, the prequel was much better than the original. (Note the comic relief in the two prequels: in Shakespeare's prequel, it was Falstaff, in Lucas's, it was Jar Jar Binks. That says a lot.)

At any rate, the "Henry VI" plays deal with how, after Henry V's death, England loses the Hundred Years' War (thanks partly to Joan of Arc - more on that below), and slides into the Wars of the Roses, which Henry VI tries to prevent but unsuccessfully. (I've felt tempted to compare him to E--n P-x in the past, but on further thought, decided against it, partly because such a comparison would probably turn everyone in the comment room against Henry VI, partly because E--n P-x *did* succeed in persuading the warring factions in his country to make peace, which Henry failed to do with Lancaster and York - maybe P-x was a better statesman than we assumed from his cliched lines and endlessly repeated name.) It doesn't help that Henry's wife, Margaret of Anjou, is all in favor of crushing the Yorkists who challenge her husband's throne with an almost Demona-ish level of bloodthirstiness (I've sometimes speculated that she was the inspiration for the Queen of Hearts in "Alice in Wonderland", especially since the Queen of Hearts prefered red roses over white roses).

"Henry VI Part One" has gained some particular notoriety in its depiction of Joan of Arc. Shakespeare and his audience were still smarting over losing the Hundred Years' War, so Shakespeare depicts Joan as not a saint inspired by angels (although she poses as one at first) but as a witch in league with the Devil, who deserts her in the end and lets her be captured by the English. She's not even an effective leader; every time Joan frees a French town from the English, the English speedily recapture it, followed by the Dauphin wondering whether he had the right idea in accepting Joan's help. She does succeed in defeating one of the best English generals, Lord Talbot - but because the two English nobles who are supposed to be bringing reinforcements to Talbot (the Dukes of Somerset and York, future leaders of the Lancastrian and Yorkist factions) hate each other so much that they refuse to work together, so the reinforcements never arrive. The worst part, though, comes when Joan's captured and sentenced to be burnt at the stake. Her old father shows up, grieving about her impending death, until Joan tells him "Get lost, you stupid ignorant peasant! I'm not your daughter; I'm descended from royalty." The old shepherd stares at her in shock, then walks off, telling the English "Burn that ungrateful little brat". Joan then pleads with the English not to burn her, and becomes so desperate that she finally claims that she's pregnant, naming one French leader after another as the father and never mind that she's dynamiting her "holy virgin" reputation; all she succeeds in doing is disgusting the English still further. This is probably why "Henry VI Part One" isn't performed too often nowadays, and if "Gargoyles" ever handles Joan of Arc (Greg once speculated that Demona might have been in France during that time, but hasn't worked out the details or even decided for certain), it'll certainly be the more conventional portrayal of her.

"Henry VI Part Two" has its own piece of notoriety; in one scene, during a peasant revolt, one of the peasants says "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". It's become one of Shakespeare's more popular lines since then, even though the lawyers have been frantically pointing out that this line was delivered by one of the villains. I don't know if this line ever could be applied to lawyers in the "Gargoyles Universe"; we've had mentions of Xanatos and Dracon having clever lawyers who are able to get them out on bail or give them shortened sentences (though Dracon's lawyers must have given up on him by "Turf"), but they haven't shown up on stage. As an Assistant District Attorney, Margot Yale might count - though the "kill all the lawyers" sentiment would be overreacting, even for her.

HENRY VIII: One of the last plays that Shakespeare ever wrote, and probably in collaboration with another writer. (It's best known for its opening performance burning down the Globe Theatre, when a cannon set off during one of its big moments of pageantry - there's probably more pageantry than drama in this play - accidentally set the theatre on fire.) Shakespeare tactfully leaves out the two things Henry's best-known for: his bulk, and his habit of chopping off his wives' heads; the play ends before Henry's marriage with Anne Boleyn can go sour. (To be precise, it ends with Elizabeth I's birth and christening, with Henry disappointed that she's a girl at first - as in real history - but, unlike reassured history, he warms to her after one of his advisors is momentarily able to see the future and tells him that she'll grow up to be one of England's greatest monarchs ever.) If Henry VIII ever shows up in "Gargoyles", I don't think his portrayal will be influenced by this play at all.

JULIUS CAESAR: For a change, a historical figure whose popular image *is* influenced by Shakespeare's treatment of him, unlike Joan of Arc or Henry VIII above (though Caesar's far closer to the norm than either Joan or Henry were). If the Ides of March ever gets brought into the Gargoyles Universe (maybe linked to Caesar Augustus, who has a small part in the play), there might be some influence from Shakespeare - but I suspect that the play's influence is more likely to display itself in quotes, as with "Hamlet".

More tomorrow.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 7:08:51 pm EST from 4.244.215.26

Gah, this means I'm gonna have to find the episodes and reacquaint myself.
Madame M
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 5:59:20 pm EST from 99.141.242.234

@ Madame. Hi. I used to watch the show as a teenager and loved it but until I started watching it again I didn't realize what an outstanding show this was. Definitely a show for all ages. My 11 year old daughter loves the show.
Jasmine - [clarkejasmine05 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 4:55:43 pm EST from 24.44.200.14

Thank you for the welcome. Playing with the avatars at the moment, trying to settle on one. Kinda new to this Gargoyles. Waaaay back in the day my kids watched them but I kinda lost track. Always thought it was a good show since it appealed to all ages. Certainly appealed to me anyway.
Madame M
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 12:11:55 pm EST from 99.141.242.234

PHOENICIAN AND BATTLE BEAST - Thanks. Here's a few more.

HAMLET: This one's already had a few references in "Gargoyles", naturally - Ophelia's name, and three quotes ("There are more things in heaven and earth..." in "Heritage", "Alas, poor [Yorick/Goliath]" in "Future Tense", and "...who would 'scape whipping?" in "The Gate") - four quotes if you count Xanatos's "To be or not to be" in "Angels in the Night" (most of us won't, though). I don't know if Hamlet himself would ever get into "Gargoyles" on stage, of course; he was based on a legendary Danish prince named Amleth, who probably did exist in the Gargoyles Universe. (Amleth's story differs from Hamlet's in at least one major way; he defeats his usurping uncle without getting killed and becomes King of Denmark for several years. I don't know whether that's more serious or less serious than the tampering that Shakespeare did with Macbeth's story.) I wouldn't be too surprised if we see more quotes, at least, in future "Gargoyles" stories, if we get any - even relatively obscure ones like the one from "The Gate".

HENRY IV PARTS ONE AND TWO: This one definitely got in, thanks to the last two chapters of "Bad Guys: Redemption". And Falstaff and his crew are the most likely people in the history plays to get into "Gargoyles", partly because they're relatively independent of the history covered in Shakespeare's plays (Falstaff's loosely based on two real knights in 15th century England, but only loosely), partly because of how famous Falstaff is (it's said that there've been more books and articles written about Falstaff than any other character in Shakespeare, except for Hamlet). We also saw Dingo get the Prince Hal role. I doubt, though, that we'll ever see him pitted against a Hotspur-counterpart in any future "Bad Guys" stories; that would probably be overdoing it.

Falstaff, Prince Hal, Bardolph, Poins (the original of the "Points" in "Bad Guys"), and Mistress Quickly were all introduced in "Henry IV Part One", the better-known and more popular of the two plays, which does a great job of balancing the Falstaff part of the story with the historical part of the story, partly because Hotspur is almost as intriguing a character as Falstaff and Hal, and certainly a worthy foil for the Prince. (I think that the scene where Hotspur is arguing with his ally, Owen Glendower, and poking fun at Glendower's claims to be a mighty wizard, is as funny as the Falstaff scenes.) In "Henry IV Part Two" (which introduces Mistress Doll Tearsheet and Pistol), the focus shifts almost entirely to Falstaff except near the end (when Henry IV dies and Hal succeeds him to the throne); the new rebellion (whose leaders are far less colorful than Hotspur) gets only a couple of scenes with a perfunctory feel to them. (It's also put down without a big battle; the King's generals offer an amnesty to the rebels if they agree to lay down their arms - and when the rebels do so, immediately arrest them and haul them off to execution.)

HENRY V: One of Shakespeare's best-known histories alongside "Henry IV Part One" and "Richard III"; it would probably be something of a stretch to include an Agincourt-counterpart in Dingo's future (though for a while, I've been finding myself picturing him saying "Well, once more unto the breach" in the middle of a fight on a future Redemption Squad mission), though Greg might find other material to mine for future stories. Noted for Falstaff's off-stage death with Mistress Quickly saying that he's gone to "Arthur's bosom"; while this is generally recognized as a slip for "Abraham's bosom", it's appropriate since the Falstaff of "Gargoyles" is a member of a secret society founded by a former knight of the Round Table, apparently (judging from Peredur's remarks in "Rock of Ages") to set things up for Arthur's intended return in 2198. There's a Princess Katharine in "Henry V", a French princess whom Henry marries, but I think that's just a coincidence (though the Princess Katharine of "Gargoyles" has some French blood in her, since her mother was from Normandy).

More this evening (I hope).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 7:31:24 am EST from 4.244.208.114

Just for clarification's sake, would would the clan celebrate the Winter Solstice before or after the shortest day of daylight?

Seems to be me as if the night before the first day of winter (the previous day's evening and the solstice's AM) and the night of the first day of winter (the solstice's evening and the next day's AM) would both be about the same length of time . . .

Unless of course I'm over-thinking all this, which is very likely o.O

Todd -- I too am liking your bit-size analysis of Shakespeare . . . looking forward to the rest :)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 3:54:10 am EST from 70.190.65.34

I saw "Commedy of Errors" twice at the Shakespeare Festival here in Edmonton last July. I loved it!

Todd> Love your Shakespeares. Keep 'em comming! :)
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Dec 22, 2009 1:14:20 am EST from 75.159.239.62

I can't imagine Goliath and his clan having a drunken celebration - though I remember a speculation about the trio mistaking some vodka for fruit juice, and then staggering about saying "What shorshery ish this?"

Two tips for Christmastime in the Gargoyles Universe. First, do not try putting a set of fake reindeer antlers on Bronx; that could be even more disastrous than asking Talon if they have industrial-size litter boxes in the Labyrinth. Second, do not go caroling at Demona's house. I don't think she'd offer carollers hot cocoa - or maybe she would, but at boiling point, emptied over their heads from a cauldron perched on the top of her house.

My musings on Shakespeare's plays in the Gargoyles Universe, Part Two:

THE COMEDY OF ERRORS: One of Shakespeare's early comedies, about two pairs of identical twins constantly being mistaken for each other. Probably won't get involved (note that the television series took pains to, after the first act of "Double Jeopardy", to have Goliath and Thailog look distinctly different enough that this kind of confusion wouldn't apply to them).

CORIOLANUS: One of Shakespeare's lesser-known tragedies, set in the early days of Rome when it was still just one of several villages in Italy, all fighting each other. Coriolanus is the greatest warrior in Rome, but also proud and short-tempered. After a great victory over Rome's leading enemy, the Volsces (another Italian tribe), he runs for office (some things never change), but so alienates most of the Romans with his pride and cantankerousness that they finally drive him out of the city. Coriolanus, furious, joins forces with the Volsces and marches on Rome to get revenge, but his mother persuades him to spare the city. The Volsces, disgusted with Coriolanus for costing them a victory, hack him to pieces. Greg mentioned the play in a ramble on "Titus Andronicus", but I can't think of what else he might do with it.

CYMBELINE: One of Shakespeare's romances (the plays he wrote in his closing years, usually classified as comedies but with a more magical tone). It's set in Britain during the time of Caesar Augustus, and deals with Cymbeline (the then king of Britain) and his daughter Imogen, who is plagued with everything from an evil stepmother who wants to poison her (there's a familiar plot element), her son Cloten who's infatuated with Imogen and won't take no for an answer, and her banished husband Posthumus who's been duped into thinking that Imogen is unfaithful to him. One incident in the play, from the perspective of "Gargoyles", stands out; near the end, Augustus sends a Roman army to invade Britain, and the Romans almost win when an old soldier named Belarius and his adopted sons Cadwal and Polydore (actually Cymbeline's sons and Imogen's brothers - it's complicated) make a stand againt the Romans on a narrow road and turn the tide in the Britons' favor. Shakespeare borrowed this incident from a story in an old Scottish chronicle (also his source for "Macbeth"); in the original, a ploughman named Hay and his sons similarly turned the tide against a Viking invasion of Scotland in 976. Note that Hay's exploit took place during the alliance between Prince Malcolm and Hudson at Castle Wyvern (the very year after Prince Malcolm and Princess Elena's wedding and the big time traveling visit from Goliath, Demona, Xanatos and Fox), so it might fit into "Dark Ages" somewhere, if Greg is able to get far enough into that story.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 7:18:06 pm EST from 4.244.211.79

Double post:

I meant "solstice." And to think I'm currently writing a book :D
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE!!!
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:31:54 pm EST from 69.231.203.173

Happy winter soltace everyone. :) And to think, some people believe something bad will happen this day in 3 years. Oh well, I should post here more often.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE!!!
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:30:20 pm EST from 69.231.203.173

Of course, the Winter Solstice is the shortest day of the year, meaning that they get less stone sleep than usual.

I'd think they'd be more likely to get drunk on the Summer Solstice, since they'd have more time then to sleep off the hangover.

Or does it not make any difference how long a gargoyle is asleep?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:11:58 pm EST from 74.205.192.14

WINGLESS> <<Always wondered how they'd choose to celebrate an annual event like that-if, in fact they did celebrate the Solstice.>>

The same way we do. Lots and lots of alcohol until they are too shitfaced to move. Stone sleep will take care of hangovers.

;)
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:06:15 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

Happy Winter Solstice. I always liked to consider this the Gargoyles equivilant to Christmas - being the longest night of the year(certainly a reason to celebrate for Gargs, I'd say). Always wondered how they'd choose to celebrate an annual event like that-if, in fact they did celebrate the Solstice.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:06:15 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Welcome to the room, Madame M.

The countdown is just how we kick off each new week.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 10:54:47 am EST from 99.177.172.217

What is the count down you all do every week?
Madame M
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 9:42:33 am EST from 99.144.245.94

10th
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 9:31:43 am EST from 86.40.246.233

Ninth (Yes, I'm still here.)
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 9:23:23 am EST from 69.131.42.43

8th.

Today's the winter solstice, meaning the longest night of the year. I've sometimes wondered what significance that might have for gargoyles.

For the fun of it, inspired by Bishansky's post a couple of weeks ago, I've decided to go through each of Shakespeare's plays and speculate on what role, if any, it might play in the Gargoyles Universe. Many will, I suspect, get in (if at all - Greg Weisman's admitted that there are one or two Shakespeare plays he's not that familiar with) only via quotes, while others might supply characters and events, as "Macbeth" and "A Midsummer Night's Dream" did. The plays will be listed in alphabetical order, and I'll provide brief descriptions of the less well-known ones.

ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL: One of Shakespeare's "problem plays" (three bleak "comedies", partly called because they don't seem to fit properly into either the comedy genre or the tragedy genre, partly because they deal with human problems); in it, a young woman named Helena, the daughter of a famous doctor, falls in love with a young nobleman named Bertram, who wants nothing to do with her because her father (despite his skill and renown) was a commoner. The king at whose court Bertram is attending is extremely ill, but Helena, who took many lessons from her father before he died, is able to cure him; the king is so grateful to her that he promises to grant her whatever she asks - and she asks for Bertram's hand in marriage, to his horror. Bertram and Helena are wedded, but Bertram leaves as soon as the wedding is over, to take part in a war abroad and announcing that he'll have nothing to do with Helena if he can help it; the rest of the play deals with Helena's (not especially ethical) schemes to bring him back to her. Goliath quoted the name of the play at the end of "Ill Met By Moonlight"; I don't think that it's likely to have any further presence in the Gargoyles Universe.

ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA: Based on historical events (Mark Antony and Cleopatra's love affair and the struggle between them and Caesar Augustus over the Roman Empire), and so could work in somewhere in the background of the Gargoyles Universe. We know that Caesar Augustus has a role in the Gargoyles Universe (though in canon-in-training) through the Humility Spell, though the play is set at the beginning of his reign and Greg's reported that the Humility Spell was cast near the end of Augustus's reign (four years before he died). Egypt's also been featured once in "Gargoyles" ("Grief"), though Cleopatra doesn't seem to have had that much affinity for it (she was a member of a Macedonian Greek family set up by one of Alexander the Great's generals, not an Egyptian). More than that I won't try to guess.

AS YOU LIKE IT: Would most likely get in via quotes and character namesakes. (I don't know if anybody remembers the Shakespeare episode of "Duck Tales", but at the end, one of the characters quoted the "All the world's a stage" line from this play - the most famous line in the play.)

More to come later.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 7:27:54 am EST from 4.244.212.24

7th
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:25:10 am EST from 76.27.173.29

6th in the name of another Hollywood death.

R.I.P. Brittany Murphy. :(
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:45:56 am EST from 99.177.172.217

Five
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:49:46 am EST from 92.12.202.220

FOUR(4)!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:22:53 am EST from 69.54.209.20

Third in the name of the Winter Solstice!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:20:12 am EST from 70.237.136.134

Second in the name of putting up the 'ol Christmas tree with only days to spare . . .
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:11:39 am EST from 70.190.65.34

Apparently, I claimed first...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>~~)> Recovering from food poisoning...
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:02:42 am EST from 72.199.81.32

Yana >> We all have lives. It's you that doesn't for wasting your time typing up a stupid post...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>~~)> Recovering from food poisoning...
posted @ Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:01:29 am EST from 72.199.81.32