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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 10, 2013

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In honor of the end of "Young Justice: Invasion" next Saturday, I'd like to dedicate the top 10 to Greg, Brandon and the entire team for their fantastic work they have put into this show. Personally, I have found it very enjoyable and I'm a man who has a very basic knowledge of the universe.

I'm going to attempt to start the count "up" with Cornered. I hope everyone follows suit.

Anthony Tini

SomeGeek -- Demona does in fact say something similar to her younger self in "Vows" (exact quote: "If I must beat this lesson into you, so be it!), but I'd wager its just a similar moment and not necessarily an intentional reference to Gargoyles.

Anthony -- Here's hoping your DVR grabbed this morning's repeat of Young Justice, because it really was an awesome episode. I'm really looking forward to the finale next week and hope to enjoy the end of this incredible ride-of-a-show without thinking (too much) about the non-renewal of the series :)

Spidey's 5th -- Regrettably I let March 8th slip by without pulling out my DVDs of The Spectacular Spider-Man . . . though I fully intend to rectify that tonight. Unless anyone has any episode suggestions, I'll probably just pick the first arc in the Education of Peter Parker (the obvious "Survival of the Fittest" and "Interactions," i.e., the hour of eps that premiered 3/08/2008 as well as "Natural Selection")?

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I promise this is a Gargoyles post despite how this question starts....
In the recent episode of Young Justice, Black Manta is attacking his son and says something to the effect of "I will teach you to be ruthless even if I have to beat this lesson in to you"
I can almost hear Demona's voice saying that same thing. Did she say a similar line (possibly in the episode where she uses the Phoenixgate to go back during Xanotos' wedding and is beating up her younger self?) i just wanted to make sure i'm not going crazy and hearing demona's voice in my head for no reason at all :-P

SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

Battle Beast> Demona's door doesn't sound to bad, but could there be smth. above it?

Comet> A whole movie is impossible to pull off and I love Gargoyles too much to even think about doing an attempt at this. But I can do smth. else... and there is a reason Demona appears on the logo, too.

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail.com]

That second pic reminds me of Pixar. A Gargoyles Pixar (or Pixar-like) movie... too much work for one single person.^^

Otherwise I have no idea what these things could mean.

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Neill> Pic #1: That's the thing on Demona's door where she drops the money.

And as for pic #2, Castle Wyvern?

Can't guess as to what you are up to, but I am intrigued.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

I am currently working on two projects any Gargoyles fan might want to see when they're finished. And I like giving hints and stuff, so I figured I come here and give a hint (of what they could be about) for each project, because this is THE place for Gargoyles fans. So if you actually are interested in this, take a look at...
project 1 hint: http://i48.tinypic.com/27y4cd5.jpg
project 2 hint: http://i48.tinypic.com/2ilopx5.jpg

My guess is project 2 seems a lot more interesting, right? But that one will take longer to be completed... As for the first project: The idea for this came from Greg Weisman himself, he rambled about this on "Ask Greg" quite "a while" ago. Any guesses?

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail.com]

God damn DVR didn't record YJ. Hopefully it captures the re-run tomorrow that I just set manually.
Anthony Tini

Supermorff> A distinct possibility. Who knows, maybe the hilt is where the magic truly lies.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Blade of iron, hilt of something else?
Supermorff

Paul> Unlikely. Pure titanium isn't good for blades - it can't really be heat-treated sufficiently to gain a good edge and then won't retain any edge you manage to get. A properly-forged steel blade could cut through a titanium one with relative ease.

Now a titanium alloy...

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Titanium, maybe?
Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

BRAINIAC - Not as far as I know. (Of course, the medieval romancers probably didn't give any thought to the "iron is the bane of the faerie-folk" concept - and it's often uncertain whether the Lady of the Lake in their accounts is actually one of the faerie-folk, or a human sorceress - so it might not have seemed important to them.) The closest I can think of is a mention in Malory that Excalibur's name means "Cut Steel" - which presumably means "cut through steel".

Modern Arthurian fiction often has Excalibur made from meteoric iron (an understandable notion, since in ancient times, meteoric iron was believed to be magical on account of its origins), but knowing Greg Weisman, I suspect he prefers to stick with the notions in the medieval texts (with one or two exceptions, such as Roger Lancelyn Green's work).

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

GLN> Aren't you glad you commented?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Happy Fifth Anniversary, Spectacular Spider-Man!

http://sittingonanatomicbomb.com/2013/03/08/the-spectacular-spider-man-five-years-later-has-online-fandom-completely-changed/

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."

Aren't you glad you asked?
Green Lantern's Nightlight

Paul> The two possibilities are not mutually incompatible.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

It just occurred to me that animating iron suits of armor to guard King Arthur would be a particularly good way to protect him from the Third Race. And if somebody were to attack King Arthur in his sleep, it would most likely be a member of the Third Race (who have better access to Avalon than anyone else).

I wonder if Merlin suspected that somebody from the Third Race might want to kill King Arthur, or if he just wanted to give King Arthur the best protection he could.

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

Paul> Merlin would be my guess (and I imagine most others) for the enchanted armor. As to Excalibur, I imagine it was an alloy rather than pure iron, which likely lessens the impact on the Children. However, I would point out that Gargoyles appears to be going with the interpretation of the Sword in the Stone actually being Excalibur (if we trust Shari's story...but who can say if it be true?) and thus there's very little need for any of the Children to handle the blade (and since we do know the three women who bore Arthur away to Avalon included the Lady of the Lake, Bedivere tossing the sword for her to grasp and take back into the depths of the lake is a bit more likely to fall under the "few things are accurate" heading).

Todd, you're the resident Arthurian scholar - to your knowledge, has the physical composition of Arthur's blade(s) ever been discussed in any of the accounts?

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Sorry for the double post, but...

If Excalibur isn't made of iron, what is it made of?

And if the Third Race didn't animate those iron suits of armor to guard King Arthur, who did?

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

9x60=540.

540/7=almost 80.

Yeah, you're right. It is pretty impressive time compression.

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

Harlan> That's some pretty impressive time manipulation if, during the remaining seven minutes of the video, you managed to beat your testicles for a full nine hours. It makes Avalon's 1/24 time compression look like a joke.
Supermorff

I don't know about that, but King Arthur's resting place on Avalon was guarded by a couple of magically-animated suits of armor made from iron. I'd better not even try to guess whether there was a connection between that and Excalibur's origins.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

http://gargwiki.net/Excalibur#Characteristics
"Excalibur's powers are as yet unknown, although presumably it is an object made by faerie magic."
So does that mean Excalibur was created by the Third Race and is therefore probably not made of iron?

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

I got halfway through that before deciding I could do something better with my time, so I beat my testicles with a hammer for nine hours.

Is this like that "American Anime" video where we're supposed to lament the poor construction of a video and its ideas being associated with Gargoyles?

Harlan Phoenix

Bishansky> That looks awesome! The Sword is the right size, I think, judging my the photo.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

The Nostalgia Chick posted a video titled "Disney Needs More Gay". Guess who gets a small mention...

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/team-nchick/nostalgia-chick/38491-disney-needs-more-gay

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."

Probably reading too much into it...but perhaps the two popular misquotations could be taken as subtle confirmations that it isn't really Xanatos?

Hard to believe the real David would be so sloppy. ;)

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down..." - Simon and Garfunkel

The Shakespeare quote in that scene was also modified; when the Xanatos Program does its parody of "Alas, poor Yorick", it uses the popular version of the next bit, "I knew him well". In the original play, the line is "I knew him, Horatio".
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Of course, Xanatos/Puck/Weisman got the line wrong- it's actually "I'll bite your legs off!" But it's close enough to be recognizable.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

"What are you going to do? Bite my kneecaps off?"

Puck's Xanatos Program from "Future Tense" would disagree, Paul . . . Spidey from The Spectacular Spider-Man too for that matter, though admittedly the above reference is much more easily recognized, lol ;)

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

At least a few more people know more about Monty Python now than before.

And to be fair, only a really... um, hardcore... Monty Python fan would understand what my original comment was referring to, and Monty Python's fanbase doesn't have much in common with Gargoyles' as far as I know.

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

I hope it wasn't another case of "If you have to explain the joke, it doesn't work."
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Supermorff> Same taste in avatars, same knowledge of Monty Python...are you my clone or am I yours?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Matt> Paul's original comment, about finding a Hungarian translation for 'six and six' (i.e. six shillings and sixpence), was a reference to a Monty Python sketch about an English-Hungarian phrasebook in which the phrases are intentionally... uh... dirty. Brainiac's comment was the Hungarian's response from the same sketch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Hungarian_Phrasebook
You can also find the sketch on YouTube.

Supermorff

Brainiac> What was THAT about?

Avalon Beasts> My (educated) guess is that the other female is Chomp and Chaw's daughter (and Bronx's biological sister). We know that almost certainly one of the three beast eggs was Chomp and Chaw's and we know it wasn't Boudicca. I suspect that Boudicca was less closely related to the male than the other female and we know she isn't closely related to Bronx, so that seems to suggest that since the male ended up the other female beast, the male was likely a relative a Boudicca and the female wasn't. So, I assume the female is Bronx's younger biological sister. I imagine she looks like her mother, but with her father's red coloring.

And it used to be assumed that the beast couple on Avalon had already laid egg when Goliath and Co came to the island, but it hadn't hatched yet. At least, the math suggests that. Of course, "Phoenix" threw a wrench in that when Angela stated that she'd never seen an egg before. Maybe she meant a gargoyle egg rather than a beast egg, but since they are more or less identical, this doesn't seem likely. It is also pretty amazing that Angela naver got a peak at the rookeries of any other clans. Ishimura and Chac Ix Chel especially.

I know all this is off topic somewhat, but I just thought I'd throw it out there for possible discussion.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

BATTLE BEAST> If you see this, the Applause Hudson arrived. I took the sword belonging to Kenner Hudson and tied it into his right hand.

And, just for lulz, here's a cheap, half-assed recreation of "Long Way to Morning" ... and no, I can't pose that gun like a club, I wish:

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/063/5/8/long_way_to_morning_by_gregxb-d5x0ohq.jpg

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."

Speaking of Gargoyle alum (and YJ alum), Tim Curry was the voice of Palpatine in the Season 5 finale of "Star Wars: The Clone Wars". He did a decent job, but I hope he's recast if there is a Season 6. RIP Ian Abercrombie.
Anthony Tini

Hey, all. "Gargoyles" voice cast alum siting! Keith David is narrating a new series on the History Channel.

http://www.history.com/shows/the-bible

Next Sunday's installment will include the David and Goliath story. :)

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Battle Beast> I'm sure he's not being totally serious with that answer, but with some digging it probably wouldn't be too difficult to gather a list of angelic names assuming he got the comic back on track. Though how informed Katherine would be about angels like Samyaza and Sandalphon, I guess, would be pretty debatable.

I love angels so much.

Harlan Phoenix

@Todd - I've noticed those parallels as well, but serious question for the resident historian - were there any conquerors or their like in that time that didn't engage in that kind of brutality? It seems a near universal trait, on all sides. (and still ongoing, TBH).
FTBM

didn't Greg say that all the Gargoyles on Avalon were named after Angels? (Angela, Azreal, etc.)


LSZ writes...

Why was Azrael of the Avalon clan named Azrael by the Magus et all? It seems to be a Muslim(and possibly Jewish, unsure) Angel name, not even a vaguely Christian one..why did they choose it?

Greg responds...

You try to come up with 36 angel names, huh?

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

I do sometimes wonder about the precise form of Boudicca's name. The ancient British queen after whom she was named was popularly named "Boadicea" in recent times (though "Boudicca" is the more accurate term; on top of that, some historians now think it was really "Boudica"), and before that, in Shakespeare's day, her name was written as "Bunduca". I wonder how Princess Katharine and the Magus got a more accurate version of her name than was available for most of the past thousand years.

(I've sometimes thought that the original Boudicca had a touch of Demona about her, except for the suppressed guilt; rebelling against the occupying Romans to protest the wrongs they'd done her (they'd seized her property upon her husband's death, and when she protested, flogging her and raping her daughters), but carried out equally ruthless wrongs of her own (such as burning down three Roman cities in Britain, including London, and slaughtering everyone she could find in them, Roman and Briton alike). And according to the Roman historians, she was also a redhead. When I mentioned that to Greg Weisman, he wondered whether all that Princess Katharine and the Magus knew about that Boudicca was that she was a famous ancient warrior-queen.

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

...seriously? No one else is going to do it?

Fine. *punches Paul in the face and is then arrested*

My nipples explode with delight!

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

SomeGeek> Boudicca is not the only Gargbeast on Avalon... there are 2 others, one male, one female. I aggree that a Viking name seems... inappropriate although that specific name does sound indeed nice.
I was thinking about the names of these 2 other beasts since a while but didn't find anything fitting. I just name them Merlin and Morgaine in my head although I know that these are not warriors but sorcerers/magicians, the names do not even feel right, but at least they are no junk names like "Nudnik", lol.

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Adam> I would agree with Algernon in that a viking name would not appeal to the Katherine. She named all the gargoyles after angels and she named Boudicca (the currently-only Garg beast on Avalon) after a lesser british royalty. That naming convention (angels & royalty) would be keeping in line with her(Katherine's) upbringing/beliefs/interests. So I don't see naming one after a viking in line with the rest of that. That's my take on it anyway.
It does sound like a nice name though, a slight lyrical quality to it.

SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

ADAM> I tend to think any Viking names would have unpleasant connotations for Katherine and co.
Algernon

I posted this late last night so I don't know if anyone saw this. But I was watching that new series on the History channel called Viking. They have a character named Lagertha, who is based off a Danish Viking shieldmaiden from history named Lathgertha. I was wondering if Lathgertha could potentially be the name of the other female beast on Avalon. What do you think?
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

September 10, 1995: The Gargoyles take Maggie back to the Clock Tower, but she flees to Xanatos after they turn to stone. Elisa and Matt discover that Xanatos owns Gen-U-Tech. After sundown, the Gargoyles awaken and discover Maggie gone. The Gargoyles and Elisa confront the Mutates and Xanatos at the Eyrie Building. Although Derek takes the name Talon, Elisa realizes that the Mutate is her brother. Talon and the other Mutates flee.
Ross
"Oh villain! Villain! Smiling cursed villain! That one might smile and smile, and be a villain! Gooo VILLAIN! Whooooo! Yeah!" -- Sally Avril

September 2NINTH, 994. Hakon the Viking lays siege to Castle Wyvern.
September 2NINTH, 995. Michaelmas. Constantine III is so furious he initiates a plan to destroy all the gargoyles in Scotland.
September 2NINTH, 1040. Macbeth is made High King of Scotland.
September 2NINTH, 1994. Xanatos inspects his castle atop the Eyrie Building.

UncleDeadly

May EIGHTH, 1996.

Xanatos begins to actively search the globe for Coldstone.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

October SEVENTH, 1994.

Xanatos used the data on the disks to activate his Steel Clan Robots, which he and Demona immediately set against the gargoyles. The attempt is ultimately futile; the robots are destroyed. Demona, however, gets the drop on Goliath. She reveals her name and her complicity with Castle Wyvern's Captain of the Guard. Elisa prevents Demona from killing Goliath. And Goliath once again saves Elisa's life. Demona disappears. Xanatos is arrested and thrown in jail, initially on multiple felony charges that include grand theft and industrial espionage. Due to his wealth and international connections, he is considered a flight risk and held without bail. Repair work begins immediately to restore all damage to the castle.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down..." - Simon and Garfunkel

Costs six and six... costs six and six... Ahh, here we are:

Yandelavasa grldenwi stravenka.

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

December FIFTH. The two Archmages reunite outside Avalon with the Weird Sisters, who have brought Demona, Macbeth, the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and The Grimorum Arcanorum. The three talismans are given to the "younger" of the two Archmages, and he is transformed into a double of his future self. They enter Avalon and prepare to attack its inhabitants.
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

October FOURTH. The final touches on the castle are completed. It now sits atop the Eyrie Building, high "above the clouds," thus fulfilling the condition of the Magus' spell. The Magus' curse is broken, and Goliath, Hudson, the Trio and Bronx awaken to a brave new world. Minutes later, a group of Commandos attack and seem to steal three disks from Xanatos. This attracts the attention of New York City Police Detective Elisa Maza. Elisa also meets Officer Morgan for the first time.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."

August THIRD, 2000 - Lexington faces an extremely hostile takeover.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Second!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

1st
Anthony Tini