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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 26, 2015

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Matt> Of course it's not an absolute. Reproductive biology, like much of science, is a matter of statistics and percentages. However, in terms of probabilities, I believe it is statistically significant that genetic defects become more likely at the consanguinity of first cousins (Yama and Sora could actually be worse - if they're uncle and niece, they'd be TWICE as consanguinous than first cousins). Any pair more separated than that usually falls under background odds.

But the issue is never a single pairing; it's continuous pairing over time. THAT'S why scent markers would matter. In a clan that's quite communal and not likely to look outwards to expand their genetic stock, you've got to have a strong means to avoid the inherent inbreeding potential. Otherwise, several generations down the line, you wind up with things like the Habsburg jaw. Admittedly, some genetic similarity can be a good thing. Data from Iceland, a historically tiny and isolated population, indicates that relatively close relatives along the line of second and third cousins may actually result in slightly higher fertility; for a species with reproduction as limited as gargoyles, that's definitely a good thing.

Still, isolated gene pools are always at risk. I live in Ohio and we have some first-hand experience dealing with this. Our Amish population in Geauga County, for example, is about 10% of the population but has 50% of the special needs cases, DESPITE a first cousin taboo. There's even a rare seizure disorder with twelve sufferers worldwide...and they're all Amish.

Basically, endogamy (the practice of marrying within a specific ethnic group, class, or social group) can be dangerous in the long term. Eventually, outcrossing/outbreeding is necessary to maintain genetic diversity. A natural selection push against consanguinity (such as gargoyle scent markers) makes sense from a long-term biological point of view. In the short-term, however, one pair of kissing cousins isn't the end of the clan.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Adam> Another thing to consider is that in any healthy and "full" clan, the odds of even randomly mating with a first cousin is low. A typical rookery generation in a full clan may be 20-40 gargoyles. Out of those, only a small handful will be first cousins. I have not done the math, but it looks like you'd have five first cousins max in your generation, and most gargoyles will have fewer first cousins in their generation. Of those cousins, half, on average, will be the same sex as a given gargoyle. So, the chances of even randomly ending up with a cousin are probably never more than 10%.

And even if it does happen, it doesn't equal disaster. People seem to think that if two individuals that are cousins produce young, the young is guaranteed to have three eyes or its lungs on the outside of its body or something. That isn't the case. Gargoyles may occasionally end up with a cousin. Assuming there are no serious genetic diseases in their bloodline, there will not be a problem.

Honestly, I'm not even convinced the whole scent marker/attractiveness idea is necessary. But if Greg says it is so, it is so.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]

Wow, not only did we hit the pledge goal but surpassed the mark with five days to spare. Awesome job!
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman

Greg Bishansky>
Well you could do that if you get a license and the franchise owner is open to the whole kickstarter idea. It has been done numerous times, but the question is if Disney would support this, which I doubt. I think there is a better chance for new Gargoyles comics if these new Darkwing and DuckTales comics sell well.

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]
watch my Demona AMV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNGrg5Wm12E

I was starting o worry it wasn't going to make it then--boom. The remaining 20% was filled. I'm grateful but can't help find it strange. May have something to do with the IGN promotion.

I'm excited for Greg's future endeavors with crowd funding.

Inland
Signature: Chewie, we're in an Abrams film.

Todd -- I was planning on watching Shakespeare in Love later tonight d:

Just saw on Greg's official facebook fan page, the stretch goal plans for the kickstarter campaign -- comics!

"For every $15K pledged over the initial goal, we'll produce a 20 page digital comic adapting Rain of the Ghosts.

Greg Weisman will handle the writing and Christopher Jones will be handling the art. You may recall Christopher Jones contributed a piece of art to the campaign. Let's revisit that piece.

And here's the best part - anyone who's pledged $25 or more will get these digital downloadable comics for free. It's our way of thanking you for making the AudioPlay possible.

$58K = 1 comic
$73K = 2 comics
$88K = 3 comics
and another every $15K past that."

https://www.facebook.com/official.greg.weisman/photos/a.815535881848742.1073741828.690002217735443/822873337781663/?type=1&theater

Gonna be an interesting next five days :)

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

PHOENICIAN - You're the first person to mention it being Shakespeare's birthday. (I reread the entry on him at GargWiki this morning, though.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

Now THIS is the kind of news I was hoping to see on the Bard's birthday! :D
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Can't Kickstart a property you don't own.
Greg Bishansky

Forgive me if this has been asked or you have talked about this before, but is there any chance we can use kickstarter to get more Gargoyle comics?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Rain Of The Ghosts the audioplay is gonna happen, oh yes!

I will looking forward to that and no mistake!

JTS

No you're not, Al. Though oddly enough, the $6K reward is STILL unclaimed after that sudden blast of thousands.

Also, YYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1693681637/rain-of-the-ghosts-full-cast-audioplay

I need somebody to tell me I'm not hallucinating!

Algernon84
DONATE!

Normally I'd wait until the count had finished but...the Kickstarter is at 80%, people. The final week push has begun. DON'T STOP NOW! GIVE/SHILL TILL IT HURTS AND THEN KEEP GOING!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Keep in mind that intergenerational mating, while hardly unheard of (Yama and Sora, for example), is relatively rare and considered unusual.

For the most part, gargoyles tend to mate with their rookery siblings - who, because of how gargoyle reproduction works, are 100% guaranteed not to be their biological siblings.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"It's not society that determines people's futures. It's people who determine society's future." - Inspector Akane Tsunemori

(9th)Ninth!!!!!!!!!

I believe a Gargoyles sense of attraction is linked closely to their sense of smell. Meaning the closes related two gargoyles are the less attractive to each other they would be. It is probably not something they are aware of though.

Vinnie - [thomaspeano at yahoo dot com]
Mark Twain: "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience."

EIGHT days left on the Kickstarter! Spread the word!
Algernon

Been too long.

Anyway, I don't know if I am supposed to be 6th or 7th, so here goes:

Star Wars, Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
Star Wars, Episode 7: The Force Awakens

So, I was looking through the archive and couldn't quite find the answer to my question. Greg has said that Gargoyles sense of smell keeps them from mating with individuals who are closely related to them. But has he ever said how close those relations are? Within a generation, there will not be biological siblings, but lots of cousins.

For example, if Hudson's three biological kids had all parented three eggs in the 9th-10th century, there would have been three generations where at least two of them parented an egg (1018, 1038-all three, and 1058). I am assuming that those eggs would not mate, as they would be 1st cousins. But would a Gargoyle mate with a 2nd cousin? Are beasts the same? I mean, it looks like Macbeth, Gruoch, and Gillecomgain were all cousins.

Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Gargoyles Time's Changeling Ch7 now posted -

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11105220/7/Gargoyles-Time-s-Changeling

enjoy

Celgress - [m44tu at unb dot ca]

Fifth...
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]

Almost there, people. GO FOuRTH AND GIVE/SHILL TILL IT HURTS!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Rain Cacique, Charlie Dauphin, and Miranda Guerrero!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"It's not society that determines people's futures. It's people who determine society's future." - Inspector Akane Tsunemori

Seventy-TWO percent eh? We're almost there!
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman

We're at 72% with a little over ONE week left in the Kickstarter campaign!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1693681637/rain-of-the-ghosts-full-cast-audioplay

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1693681637/rain-of-the-ghosts-full-cast-audioplay

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka