Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

[SPOILER] At the end of June, the local PBS station here in Arizona is airing a documentary on the trracotta warriors from Qin Shi Huangdi's tomb - the same warriors encountered by a Timedancing Brooklyn as revealed in the latest issue. (It'll air on Wednesday, June 28, at 9 p.m., under the evocative title "Emperor's Ghost Army". I don't know if PBS stations elsewhere in the U.S. will be airing it this month, or when; I suggest you check your local PBS schedules for more information.) Excellent timing - so soon after the release of this issue. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 9:14:03 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Antiyonder > [SPOILER] I find that the meta-comments break my immersion in the world. This one wasn't as bad as the SLG one which I really disliked. But that's just me; obviously, other people enjoy them. I just hope it doesn't become too common.

I recall on the original series, Greg said that he wanted Puck to be the one character who would break the fourth wall, but Frank Paur and others wouldn't allow it. I'd be more ok with Puck doing this kind of thing, because of his magical/trickster nature as well as his Shakespearean roots.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 12:47:56 pm EDT from 209.140.33.137

As far as another comment that got some critique, [SPOILER] a bit much for Brooklyn to propose that his adventures get a spinoff, but there is his time travel PSA in the SLG story setting his adventure up, plus suggesting that he and Lexington read about Macbeth as a pro-literacy bit. Maybe more heavily meta than those, but I found it fun. [/SPOILER]
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 12:15:03 pm EDT from 107.77.205.198

Brigadoon Traveler> [SPOILER] Yes, I agree Brooklyn is still drowning at the end of the issue so there's no metaphorical resurfacing. Learning what Broadway and Lex have gotten embroiled in won't make it better, either. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 9:41:58 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

The difference between the events of "Leader of the Pack" and the events of "Underwater" are

[SPOILER] Broadway is now one of the castle's tenants, Owen has obviously been put at their disposal (at least a little bit). This wasn't the case during "Leader of the Pack". But right now, Owen is making them feel welcome, like they're at home (because, at this time, unless things go south with Xanatos, they are).

I'm not sure I understand the issue with Owen addressing Broadway with an honorific. The situation between him and the gargoyles is different now than it has been in the past. Feels like vintage Owen to me. [/SPOILER]
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Voices from the Eyrie - Gargoyles Podcast]
https://spidey-dude.com/category/podcasts/voices-podcast/
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 7:46:40 am EDT from 67.189.167.107

Got my copy of issue 6 earlier this week. Absolutely loved it.

[SPOILER] Not sure if this bit needs to be in spoilers but anyhoo. Just found this quote from Leader of the Pack.
"Good evening, uh, Broadway, is it? I've been instructed to invite you to an intimate soiree the Pack is having tonight. If you and your friends are free around midnight, please consider attending," (Owen).
Not sure if Owen is calling Broadway "Mister Broadway" in issue 6 because perhaps that's how Antoinette referred to him? Owen referred to her as Ms Antoinette Dracon so could be he's just carrying on with her formality?

Anyway, Brooklyn's narration and the underwater metaphor for his leadership was brilliant. Shame there was no resolution for it, but suppose poor guy is still drowning at the end.
Wolf's return on that last page came as a surprise, but funnily enough I was just thinking the other day about whether we'd get more backstory to Wolf.

Looking forward to the return of the Demon next issue! :D [/SPOILER]
Brigadoon Traveler
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 2:33:35 am EDT from 92.13.76.144

B > [SPOILER] Ehh, I don't know. I'm not sure I buy that Owen would be MORE formal with younger clan members. That's just not the way officious types such as him function (if anything, a guy like him would say "MASTER Broadway," making it clear that Broadway was younger and subordinate, if that were his intent). If anything, I would think that he'd give Goliath the most respect; but my gut instinct is that he'd address all the gargoyles the same way. I wish I could review the whole show now to find instances (if any) where he addressed the gargoyles by name, but that would be a ton of work.

It has crossed my mind that the gargoyles are now residents in the castle and in a sense his superiors, and I'm guessing that's why Greg made this choice. But it still feels like a bit much. Owen has been portrayed as way more butler-ish in these issues than he ever has before, and I'm not sure what to make of it.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 1:26:27 am EDT from 63.143.199.74

Craig> [SPOILER] I just looked at a transcript of "Kingdom", and no.

I also think I remember him addressing Goliath by name (which is why I said the Trio), but I couldn't say where so I'm unsure. Being less casual with younger clan members makes sense to me, since they're not peers and addressing them simply by name would make Owen sound uncharacteristically open, whereas Goliath is a peer. Goliath also has a more dignified name. And the clan is on better terms with Xanatos now, if that has something to do with it. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 1:09:51 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

B > [SPOILER] Are you sure Owen hasn't addressed members of the trio by name before? I could swear he has. Maybe Brooklyn in "Kingdom"? I feel like I can hear him in my head saying "Broadway." In any event, hasn't he called Goliath simply "Goliath"? I can't imagine why he would be more formal with the younger clan members than he is with their leader.
[/SPOILER]

As far as spoiler tags go, I believe there was a consensus that one week was going to be the policy. I'm happy to extend it beyond that, but I think consistency is important. Whatever the decision is, there should be a clear policy so that we're all on the same page.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 12:36:00 am EDT from 63.143.194.132

First episode of that new cartoon "Hailey's On It" is available on Disney's YT channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlXNoijmX48
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Jun 9, 2023 12:14:51 am EDT from 71.84.183.196

An extended period for spoiler tags will be more essential by the end of June when we'll soon be anticipating **two** new issues a month, and a week apart during some of those intervals. So much new content is outright exciting, and at the least, if your issue arrives late, I would just recommend letting everyone in the Comment Room know if you need more time.

All in all, we don't need to micromanage this, and common courtesy isn't too much to ask.
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 9:41:42 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

Matt, Chip> Forever would be excessive, but one week seems like a very short window. As we posted lower down, Todd Jensen and myself weren't able to read #6 until yesterday. Two weeks sounds like a better idea.
B
B
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 7:08:59 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Matt—Yes we do. Some people don’t get their comics right away and this is a new series for THIS FANDOM. On top of which, there’s newbies who don’t even know about the SLG run. Always ALWAYS use Spoiler Tags. I know at least one person who frequents this chat who didn’t get their copy until today.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Become a writer, you can be petty.~~Roshni Choksky
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 6:58:01 pm EDT from 174.243.54.4

Someone did this gift pic for me of Lexington and Staghart since I figured Gargoyles could use a pride pic: https://www.deviantart.com/jadeharmony/art/Gift-Lexington-x-Staghart-966276730

And I plugged a mention of Gargoyles.

Not sure if Weisman mentioned Brentwood's orientation (I'll check later), but I wonder if Lex's DC counterpart Champs Élysées is gay or bi.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 6:55:53 pm EDT from 107.77.205.211

Just a reminder that since we're a week past the release date of the comics we don't need to put things in Spoilers anymore.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 6:42:55 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

#6 went up yesterday (finally, yay!) and I've just finished reading everyone's spoilered comments.

Alex> [SPOILER] And the letters on the roof of Izaak's business where Broadway and Lex go to save Slaughter from being slaughtered read "Slaughter Video". [/SPOILER]

Craig, Alex> [SPOILER] Owen hasn't called him "Mr. Broadway" before, but he hasn't addressed members of the Trio individually before. I can't see Owen saying just "Broadway, there's someone to see you." [/SPOILER]

Craig> [SPOILER] I don't think Judge Roebling needs to recuse himself for knowing Goliath because there are no charges against him. Margot would no doubt argue he should if she knew, but she'd be wrong. If anything, knowing him is a feature in having the proper information to determine that he's sapient, not a bug.

It's funny that I read your comment about judges fearing bad headlines right after watching this week's Nancy Drew episode, "The Maiden's Rage", where a judge used memory-altering magic to cover up the long-term consequences of a ruling in order to avoid bad headlines.

Goliath may not have said "Gargoyles protect" in those exact words around Tony in "Protection", but he did lecture him on how what Tony was doing made a mockery of the term "protection", so Tony and Antoinette would know from that how gargoyles feel on the subject. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen> [SPOILER] I was surprised the Space-Spawn vessel was a standard flying saucer, I was expecting something more original. Come to think of it, Nokkar should have known if any flying saucer sightings had been Space-Spawn.

You mean Jackal and Hyena, or the Terror Twins? (I kid) [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 3:44:04 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

And yeah, just as a reminder for next month is the trade releases of Young Justice Targets and Gargoyles Here in Manhattan.

Getting them both and will make trades priority as well as donating the issues to the library.

Heck, YJ especially kind of relevant as it has that cameo of the Notre Dame Clan.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2023 2:38:47 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

Continuing my Howard Ashman deep dive, and in honor of Pride Month, here's a lovely song I discovered by Ashman and Menken, from 1983: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4fr8JGkeO4

It's a sad but willfully triumphant ballad about the early days of the AIDS pandemic, with vocals by Ashman (long before Ashman's own unfortunate diagnosis). Bring some tissues, but give it a listen.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Jun 7, 2023 10:50:22 pm EDT from 209.140.47.41

My copy of "Gargoyles" #6 arrived in the mail today.

[SPOILER] I enjoyed it a lot. A few moments that stood out to me.

1. This is the first chapter with a one-word title.

2. Brooklyn quotes himself on the first page with his "Brooklyn. I'm Brooklyn" line - the words he said back in "Awakening Part Four" when he assumed his name.

3. Dino was inspired by the news article Hudson and Broadway were using for reading lessons in "High Noon". Another example of a bit-moment in one episode with big consequences later on (like Xanatos's meeting with the Emir, for example).

4. We get the full "Timedancer" page, in color and with captions. As I mentioned, I particularly liked Brooklyn's encounter with the terracotta warriors from Qin Shi Huangdi's tomb (dated to 210 B.C., when the Emperor passed on). And we see a flying saucer (presumably a Space-Spawn vessel) in 2198 - trust "Gargoyles" to feature a classic-design flying saucer at some point. Plus Brooklyn and Co. visiting the USS Nashville right in the middle of World War II - meaning that it's at war with Katana's homeland. (And I'd like to see just how the U.S. Navy is going to handle a few gargoyles showing up on board.)

5. Despite Xanatos's "Nobody allowed access to the Eyrie Building" rule, Antoinette still enters, with Owen's co-operation; I'd like to know how she managed that. Naturally, it's Broadway, the gargoyle with the most encounters with the Dracon family, whom she meets with.

6. Castaway's present at the court session; I look forward to seeing where this leads to.

7. And Volkov's son turns out to be Wolf - more revelations about his family tree. (Was Wolf descended from Hakon on his mother's side, I wonder? Or did Hakon's family decide to go east rather than west after his death, and join the Rus?) Why do I get the feeling that he's going to look up a certain pair of terrible twins for his break-in to Rikers?

Another good issue, and I look forward to #7 and Demona's return. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Jun 7, 2023 7:55:57 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Hello. I do have an idea for Gargoyles. Thank you. Nice to meet you all.
Valerie Mihelcich - [MissAdventure27AFC at hotmail dot com]
Valerie Mihelcich
posted @ Wed, Jun 7, 2023 6:16:04 pm EDT from 172.58.141.197

CRAIG - Yes, I found the switch from dogs to cats on cover interesting, and am curious about what prompted it. (It reminds me a bit of Hudson looking after Cagney in "Kingdom".)

As for where Bronx was - maybe that was when he was out chasing the pigeons on the Fleecs cover for #1.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Jun 7, 2023 8:32:38 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Todd > Have you still been sticking with the Fleecs covers? As a cat lover (and Hudson lover), this one was particularly endearing to me. Although I have to wonder where Bronx was.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Jun 7, 2023 12:48:18 am EDT from 209.140.36.193

Craig> Thanks. Yes, I've been waiting to be able to highlight the text of all the comments about the issue.

Todd Jensen> Thanks for another monthly poem. My first thought was June Foray, voice of Rocky, Natasha, Magica de Spell, Granny and Witch Hazel. Also, the kitsune villainess in Unicorn: Warriors Eternal is apparently called June Way according to the credits. I've been enjoying the show a lot and looking forward to the next episode.

Antiyonder> I was living in Scotland when I watched Gargoyles the first time. I don't remember if all the episodes aired in order, but I definitely saw them all.
B
B
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 9:44:08 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Todd and B > I noticed you guys hadn't chimed in on the new issue. Will definitely stick to the spoiler tags until you're both caught up (except to say that it's great and you have something to look forward to!). I certainly hope this isn't an indication of any kind of distribution/sales issues.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 9:12:44 pm EDT from 209.140.45.217

B - The same thing's happened to me, so I support your proposal.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 7:34:14 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Phoenician> Thanks, I hope so too! This only happened once before, last year, when it took unusually long for the Buffy and Angel comics from a particular week to appear.
B
B
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 3:25:45 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Thanks for the heads up, B. Hopefully you get #6 soon!
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 3:10:12 pm EDT from 72.216.220.229

My usual comics source has been taking much longer to get #6 up than it did the other issues (which were usually the release day or the day after), so if it's not an inconvenience I would appreciate it if others here continue to use spoiler text to discuss #6 until I've posted that I've read it if I still haven't been able to obtain it after the usual spoiler time limit elapses. Otherwise, I'll have to avoid coming to this forum, and there are other discussions I'd like to read and join in here. Hopefully, it won't be weeks and weeks.
B
B
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 1:15:45 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Speaking of covers, Matt and I had previously noted the similarity of the Conner cover to the layout on Marvel's Gargoyles #11 cover. I was never sure whether that #11 cover was drawn by Conner or Grant Miehm, since it was unsigned, and the interior art duties on that issue were split (with Miehm drawing the Bronx/Trio material, so I assumed he may have drawn the cover). But it seems it was indeed Conner, since she signs her Gargoyles #6 cover "2023 Conner after 1995 Conner."

Also, continuing her tradition of Easter eggs paying tribute to the 1990s Marvel issues, she includes a "Marty's Mustard" packet, presumably an homage to the late Martin Pasko (writer of the first few issues, as well as writer/story editor alongside Michael Reaves on Batman: The Animated Series).
Craig
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2023 2:40:01 am EDT from 63.143.202.90

Matthew > [SPOILER] Makes sense. Thanks for the insight! My first thought was Japan, but then I thought about how most Kamabadais covers so far have reflected events in the issue. The double-page splash depicts Brooklyn in China wielding a sword, so that's why my thoughts went there. [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 10:25:13 pm EDT from 63.143.202.83

Pardon the double post.
[SPOILER] For reference, this details the other architectural designs used in pagodas in other Asian countries. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Kek_Lok_Si_pagoda_styles.svg/320px-Kek_Lok_Si_pagoda_styles.svg.png

[/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 9:19:56 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Craig> [SPOILER] Judging by the pagoda's design and maple leaves framing the cover. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's Japanese. When is the bigger question since his time in Japan was in feudal era and that was several centuries worth of time in Japan. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 9:16:31 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Got my physical copies of issue 6 today.

[SPOILER] The Kambadais cover is clearly during the Timedancer journey. Any thoughts on where/when this is based on the architecture behind him? China? [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 8:33:09 pm EDT from 209.140.39.112

CRAIG - [Since I missed "Vows," the next day I asked him what happened. When he told me the plot of the episode, I found it impossible to believe that so much could have happened in one half-hour episode. I thought he was lying to me and I got pretty ticked at him for a bit.]

What amused me about this tidbit is that Greg Weisman once commented that he wished he'd made it a two-parter, in light of such elements as the introduction of time travel.

And I noticed that "Gargoyles" followed that order of episodes in the 1996-97 season in syndication, including "Turf" airing among the early Season Two episodes. I'd almost forgotten that, largely thanks to my having switched over from the VHS tapes I'd made of the show then to the DVDs.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 7:49:26 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Yeah I remember it airing on ITV, it skipped all of the World Tour episodes, The last episode was Turf and that was that, it was annoying because I really wanted to watch Hunters Moon again and record it (That finally happened when Disney Channel finally repeated season 1 and 2 after Goliath Chronicles ended.)

Even though Gargoyles premiered on the new Disney Channel in 1995, I didn't actually watch Gargoyles till 1996 during City of Stone and I was hooked but strangely Disney Channel didn't re air any season 1 episodes but kept re airing season 2 episodes but didn't re air any episodes after Season 2 ended. I finally saw season 1 when ITV aired them in 1997, including Deadly Force, I remember it because was a week a before Easter and me any family were going with friends on holiday to Devon for a week. I missed the ending because my parents kept telling me to hurry up. But luckily I was able to watch Enter Macbeth before we went home.
Vicky82UK - [vickysunseeker at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 4:58:05 pm EDT from 86.191.48.132

I can't say much on the broadcast order, I was just a kid when it was airing and didn't catch every episode until I was in high school.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 4:20:37 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Craig: Awesome, thank you - that's a near-3-decade mystery solved! And your "Vows" anecdote is absolutely brilliant!

Todd: Thanks for welcoming in June. Can't believe we're halfway through these now!
Ed
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 2:40:56 pm EDT from 86.157.188.88

Ed > It sounds like ITV was airing the episodes using the Buena Vista production numbers. (Nerdy ramble ahead since I find this stuff interesting, YMMV.) The Disney TV Animation production numbers (4319-xxx) were generated for budgetary reasons when production began on a new episode. For this reason, "City of Stone" was first up in season 2, since it was begun as a direct to video movie before production started on the rest of season 2. Each episode was also assigned a second production number by Buena Vista (GG##xxx) for distribution purposes. The BV numbers mostly follow the DTVA numbers. But since the DTVA numbers lead to some funky results like multi-parters not being sequential (i.e., having other episodes stuck in the middle), BV occasionally moved episodes around. It appears that they tried to do that in as simple a way as possible (from a record-keeping standpoint), so as to stick mostly to the DTVA order. But this led to some equally funky results in terms of continuity. The reason "Turf" appears so early in the BV order is that "Hunter's Moon" was originally begun as a direct to video movie, and so "Hunter's Moon Part 1" appears very early in the run of DTVA numbers for season 2. BV "fixed" this by simply flipping the numbers for "Hunter's Moon Part 1" and "Turf," keeping the multi-parter together, but leading to a jarring Angela appearance very early on in season 2. Obviously, no one should ever view the show in this order, but I guess a lot of channels re-running the show probably stuck to BV's order since that's how the show was sold to them.

(Nerdy ramble over.)

The only broadcast discrepancy I can recall on the original airing in my market was that act 1 of "Upgrade" ended abruptly with Dingo zapping Goliath. A commercial cut in, and the last minute of that fight was left off. I didn't see it until the second airing.

The only episode I missed on its initial airing was "Vows," but that was due to a brown-out in my neighborhood, not a preemption. I've told this story before on the Gargoyles subreddit. During lunch break at school, I would always talk to my friend about the latest Gargoyles episode. Since I missed "Vows," the next day I asked him what happened. When he told me the plot of the episode, I found it impossible to believe that so much could have happened in one half-hour episode. I thought he was lying to me and I got pretty ticked at him for a bit.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 1:37:07 pm EDT from 209.140.45.125

I didn't have pre-emption problems either, fortunately. I did miss a couple of Avalon World Tour episodes the first time they aired because I was in the middle of a move at the time, but that was about it.

Mine is the Month of Roses; yes and mine
The Month of Marriages! All pleasant sights
And scents, the fragrance of the blossoming vine,
The foliage of the valleys and the heights.
Mine are the longest days, the loveliest nights;
The mower's scythe makes music to my ear;
I am the mother of all dear delights;
I am the fairest daughter of the year.

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, "The Poet's Calendar", "June".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 8:33:27 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

I don't know about pre-empting but I watched the series in the most mixed-up way possible. When we first got the Disney channel around 1997, I saw a bunch of the later world tour episodes ending with "The Gathering, Part 1". I wasn't allowed to watch the next airing and then the episodes were pulled from Disney. They started airing on ITV in the mornings a few months later from "Awakening" but the order of season 2 was totally messed up. "City of Stone" came first then the episodes were in a really jumbled order. Mostly they stuck to a tier at a time even when the order within them was inconsistent but occasionally they'd go completely off-piste and air something like "Turf". Then they pulled the series before the Avalon episodes. Eventually, the show returned to Disney and I got them on VHS. By this point I'd had to keep track of the episodes using online guides which also had the byproduct of spoiling me for the twist of "The Gathering Part Two" before I finally caught the episode 14 months after the first part. At the same time, they also aired TGC weekly and I followed along watching with various levels of attentiveness although I missed "Angels in the Night" entirely. I feel like I did catch it many years later but I have zero memory of it even now so perhaps I only thought I did. Certainly, I have no interest in seeing it out now.
Ed
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 6:47:58 am EDT from 86.157.188.88

So Gargoyles did pretty well with it's premiere not having much in the way of schedule slip ups and was able to accommodate it's serialized story.

But anyone ever have the misfortune of any premieres being pre-empted in their area?

Had it happen One time. I was regularly watching as the Avalon World Tour was folding and the show was back in Manhattan.

It was a game or something, but yeah The Reckoning wasn't shown when I tuned into to the airing. Heck, when seeing the clip in Previously on Gargoyles, I thought I might have even missed a second World Tour episode with Demona.

Also, updated my minor YJ timelime to factor in The Prize and Targets. Posted it on my Deviantart account today: https://www.deviantart.com/antiyonder/art/Young-Justice-TAS-tie-in-timeline-965702891
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2023 12:44:07 am EDT from 71.84.183.196

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Comments for the week ending June 11, 2023

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