I watched the new Indiana Jones film today. It was nice to see John Rhys-Davies.
Craig
posted @ Sun, Jul 9, 2023 11:13:29 pm EDT from 166.198.251.144

Algae> [SPOILER] That's more or less my thinking. Though I tend to think the finale of Timedancer will have Brooklyn assisting in the Phoenix being forged into the Gate somehow. [/SPOILER]
Matt
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"
posted @ Sun, Jul 9, 2023 12:27:04 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

CRAIG> [SPOILER] Yeah, my thinking is the Pheonix itself is a kind of living time loop. I imagine once it's done bouncing Brook around the Timelime, it eventually ends up back on Avalon in time to get bound to the Gate for the 'first' time. [/SPOILER]
Algae
'Nuff said.
posted @ Sat, Jul 8, 2023 5:48:59 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

Matthew> Unicorn: Warriors Eternal is fairly wholesome, too. I think I heard both shows ended up on Adult Swim for reasons related to their production.
B
B
posted @ Sat, Jul 8, 2023 9:33:16 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

Antiyonder> Just caught the first episode of My Adventures With Superman. A bit odd actually seeing something that wholesome on Adult Swim.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Jul 7, 2023 11:13:09 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

CIT: [SPOILER] Almost as if the entire notion of canon-in-training is a fandom's exercise in "all things are true; few things are accurate" d:

I for one think the Phoenix must have been in the works well before the SLG days -- I do recall some disbelief amongst the fans in those days that Brooklyn and company would consistently find the Gate just out of reach throughout four decades of TimeDancing . . . [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Fri, Jul 7, 2023 7:27:25 pm EDT from 13.59.64.99

"very informative article!!! thank you so much!

https://scottsdaleplasticsurgery.net
boL16 - [buluksura at gmail dot com]
builder16
posted @ Fri, Jul 7, 2023 5:34:45 pm EDT from 120.29.76.111

Algae > [SPOILER]
Fair point. Looking at the dates of Greg's answers, and which ones were pre-SLG and post-SLG, can support what you say. But I am also reminded of when Greg upended all our expectations re: Percival/Duval, and many (myself included) assumed he had changed his plans from the "canon in training." But his answer was the enigmatic, "Nothing has changed." So I'm not going to write off the canon in training yet, re: the Gate, although it also of course is not canon.

If your theory is correct, do you then believe that it is the Phoenix itself whose journey starts, ends, and restarts on Avalon? That's an interesting thing to think about.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Fri, Jul 7, 2023 4:09:25 pm EDT from 173.229.64.129

CRAIG> [SPOILER] I think this is just a case of the Canon In Training evolving in the interim. Remember, in Greg's original TimeDancer pitch, it was the physical Gate itself bouncing Brook around the timeline. Obviously, Greg rethought that by the time he got around to writing the SLG comic. Now I can't read Greg's mind but looking at the published material, I'd say it's the Phoenix Entity itself which has existed since the dawn of time and acts as a pressure valve for the timestream. I imagine the physical Gate never had any innate magical properties beyond binding the Phoenix and harnessing its power. [/SPOILER]

That's my two cent anyhow.
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Fri, Jul 7, 2023 10:32:33 am EDT from 88.87.179.191

Caught the premiere of My Adventures With Superman via Charter On-Demand. Pretty fun.

Zehra Fazal while not mention among the cast is credited in the episode as [SPOILER] Leslie Willis [/SPOILER] known as [SPOILER] Livewire [/SPOILER].
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Jul 7, 2023 4:01:32 am EDT from 71.84.183.196

Matt: [SPOILER] Definitely. From the SLG days: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=11885 [/SPOILER]

Jurgan: [SPOILER] Gargoyles and humans both qualify as mortals, and as this latest issue demonstrates, gargoyles can do mortal magic (when trained), so I don't think they are short-changed. So for this 'rule of threes', the premise finds its fitting and symmetry with mortal magic, third race magic, and maybe the 'beyond-possessing' magic (which the Spirit of Destiny clearly asserts itself as, and perhaps the Phoenix does as well). [/SPOILER]

Craig: [SPOILER] Just added some more S8 citations to the Avalon page, thank you for pointing that gap out. But as I said in my comment for the edit, I don't think the citations fully support what's been written on their own (they just don't contradict it). Perhaps its a case of logical extrapolation and/or trying to paraphrase without repeating. Either way, enjoy d: [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 6:23:42 pm EDT from 54.218.100.100

[SPOILER] If we're going with this rule of threes, it seems a little unfair that we have one artifact for humans, one for Third Race, and none for gargoyles. Are gargoyles inherently less magical? I don't think we've seen anything to suggest that, so for symmetry's sake we would have to link the Phoenix Gate with gargoyles.

Is The Phoenix also The Dragon?
[/SPOILER]
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 5:09:18 pm EDT from 64.106.38.254

[SPOILER]
Matt > Just browsing the gargwiki, Greg's various answers about the origins of the Phoenix Gate are on their face difficult to reconcile, although I think that was very intentional on his part (giving us a few ambiguous puzzle pieces that don't seem to fit). When asked who made the Gate, he replied, "Not who," implying that it was created by something other than a person. He also says that it was created "with the Timestream, perhaps as a pressure valve of sorts." The creation of the Timestream is obviously a difficult concept to even fathom. So the Gate seems to have some VERY mysterious origins well beyond the Third Race. He also says the Gate is "of Avalon," and the time loop of its existence begins, ends, and restarts all over again on Avalon.

This would seem to imply, to me, that Avalon existed at the very beginning of time...if the Gate was created "with the Timestream" and its journey begins on Avalon. However, the gargwiki entry for Avalon says Avalon was created at the same time as the Third Race (although there is no citation for this particular point). Obviously, the inherent nature of time travel makes all this stuff pretty difficult to pin down--when does a time loop "begin"? Is the creation of the Timestream the very first moment in linear time, or is it more complicated than that? My head hurts.

It's also not clear what purpose the Gate itself served before someone figured out how to bond the Phoenix to it. Before that, was it merely a "pressure valve"? What powers did it have on its own?
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 4:50:54 pm EDT from 173.229.64.72

Phoenician> [SPOILER] I wonder if the Phoenix itself is beyond Third Race magic, but the GATE was forged on Avalon by the Third Race to contain it and control it. We certainly didn't see the Phoenix entity try to get to the Gathering or anything, so it isn't one of the Children itself, but Puck seemed to think that giving the Gate to Oberon might work as a strong bribe. Probably not something we'd fully understand until Timedancer... [/SPOILER]

My corrected copy (Amazon/Kindle) has not happened yet, but I assume it will in the next day or two just as the last error was.
Matt
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 3:44:17 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

Mine is updated (Comixology through Amazon Kindle). I didn't have to do anything; it updated automatically at some point overnight or this morning.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 2:19:50 pm EDT from 173.229.64.112

Phoenician> Weird, mine still hasn't.

But I have my hard copies already.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Voices from the Eyrie - Gargoyles Podcast]
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 2:11:27 pm EDT from 67.189.167.107

My digital copy of "Everywhere" (through Comixology) has been corrected with the first page :)
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 12:29:23 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

[SPOILER] I must agree with Masterdramon. It’s so obviously the Illuminati society, it really can’t be anyone else. Tobe was ready and filing his motion within hours of Goliath’s capture. He knew G’s tastes in literature and nature without ever having spoken to him. The Society plays all sides, as we saw during their reintroduction in the SLG run. It’s clear that they supplied the equipment to the GTF as well as Goliath’s defense at the same time. Playing everyone like fiddle, just as Hacker did with Matt, Xanatos, and Castaway. I’d bet that having Xanatos collect the Stone of Destiny for them was probably a loyalty test for Xanatos. One that he passed, so he’s privy to at least part of the plan; how he knows that the lawyer is ‘taken care of’. [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Become a writer, you can be petty.~~Roshni Choksky
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 11:35:00 am EDT from 174.210.0.93

[SPOILER] If Renard hired Tobe, why would that be something he'd need to hide from Goliath in the first place? As you note, it would come out in court either way, so what possible value would there be in keeping Goliath in the dark at this time that "a friend is paying his legal bills"?

My current thinking is basically the latter...Renard's silhouette was careful misdirection toward watchful long-time fans, and we haven't seen him play his real cards yet.

What could that be? I have one very, very out there theory. But I think I'm gonna keep that one close to my chest a little while longer... [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"It can be a hobby, or really, anything else, but I love when people have fun doing what they love. It’s like they’re sparkling." - Marin Kitagawa
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 1:50:28 am EDT from 98.150.138.224

[SPOILER]
Masterdramon > I like where your head's at. The Illuminati storyline has always been one of the most fun for me, ever since it was introduced in earnest in "The Edge" and "The Silver Falcon." More recent SLG developments have just made it even more exciting for me. A few thoughts in response to your comments...

I don't think the very preliminary conversation between Crest and Goliath about character witnesses necessarily discredits either Renard or Xanatos as the benefactor. As others have noted, Crest immediately downvoting Xanatos as a potential witness can be seen as SUPPORTING the inference that Xanatos is paying Crest's bills and doesn't want to be directly involved. (At the very least, it would lead to Xanatos having to reveal under oath where the gargoyles lived, which would lead to danger for both the gargoyles and his building--not to mention his wife and son.) As for Renard, if he ended up being both benefactor and witness, of course that would have to be disclosed to opposing counsel (Margot), and it would inevitably come up during testimony. (Probably Crest would bring it up in direct examination, so it didn't look like the plaintiff--Goliath--had anything to hide.) But that testimony could really go either way. The judge could view it as Halcyon putting his money where his mouth is--Halcyon believes so much in Goliath as a decent person that he's willing to stake him with his own money. Paying a friend's legal bills isn't a crime; and this is the exact opposite of the usual type of witness bias (Renard isn't receiving a benefit from Goliath to testify on his behalf...quite the opposite, he is GIVING Goliath both money AND testimony). It would be disclosed, and Margot would try to spin it to advance her case, but I don't think it would be detrimental (especially with Judge Roebling presiding).

If your Illuminati theory is correct, what do you think of the moment in issue 4, of Renard saying, "Something must be done about this...before it's too late." Do you think he was involved in the GTF grant, but not with getting Goliath legal representation? Or do you think both things were the Illuminati, and Renard's plans haven't been revealed yet at all?
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 1:33:59 am EDT from 63.143.193.247

[SPOILER] The identity of Tobe Crest's employer is so blindingly obvious to me after issue #7 that I'm sort of surprised no one else seems to have come to the same conclusion.

It's not Renard OR Xanatos. That would've come up when they were floated as character witnesses. Whoever is paying Tobe's retainer "on paper" may not be known to Goliath, but it's definitely known to the court and not disclosing that a prospective witness is paying your bills would be a horrific ethical lapse.

And yet Xanatos is definitely in the loop, at least after the fact.

Couple that with the fact that Tobe was ready to go within HOURS of Goliath's capture.

With the fact that he's so cagey about the employer's identity: "I'm not at liberty..."

With the fact that a certain major player in the SLG run has been almost conspicuously quiet in the Dynamite run so far.

With the fact that we're just two months away in the timeline from a rather intriguing entry in the Gargoyles Timeline: "July 19th. Goliath makes a bargain."

Many years ago, I made a post here about how enticing a prospect Goliath would be to a certain organization. He has connections all over the world, to a great number of heroes and villains alike. He's highly intelligent, resourceful, and physically powerful. And that organization just happens to also include his landlord, one of his closest allies, and his prodigal son.

I was kicking myself all the more when I realized this because TWICE over, in the Formspring days and in Age of Gargoyles, I was part of a group of creators who utilized their version of the trial story as the moment when that trap was sprung. And Goliath turned down the offer both times over, naturally. But what if THAT was where we went wrong?

Tobe obviously knows a lot about Goliath's character. He knows he's a gargoyle of integrity, and one who honors his debts. So what if the point of this whole affair is to CREATE that debt?

Just saying...if later in this run, we see Tobe answer his mysterious employer with a number...

Imma go: "Called it." [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"It can be a hobby, or really, anything else, but I love when people have fun doing what they love. It’s like they’re sparkling." - Marin Kitagawa
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 12:58:02 am EDT from 98.150.138.224

More #7 thoughts -- [SPOILER] Also, I know the line's been mentioned here earlier today, but you gotta love how, in her own way, Demona sees herself fitting into the King Arthur role for the Manhattan Clan. And just moments after dropping a line from Henry IV, Part 2 d: [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Jul 6, 2023 12:22:44 am EDT from 68.2.64.232

[SPOILER]
It was cool that Kambadais drew in that weird horned throne we saw in Demona's house in "The Mirror" (see page 6 panel 2). BTW, since so much of this issue is set in Demona's home...has anyone ever noticed in "The Mirror" that she appears to have both The Maltese Falcon and an Emmy? https://gargwiki.net/File:Demona_Study.png [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 10:22:59 pm EDT from 209.140.47.41

Craig: [SPOILER] Hehe, I actually still don't think the GTF benefactor and Goliath's attorney-funder are necessarily the same person. But now that you mentioned it, wouldn't **that** be the twist? Xanatos and Renard in cahoots? lol.

At any event, I certainly appreciate that this fandom has folks that are keen to see these legal proceedings play out as realistically as possible given how unprecedented and fantastical they are. I'm curious if Greg Weisman occasionally picked the minds of friends like Tuppence Macintyre when the arc was being plotted out. [/SPOILER]

Matthew: [SPOILER] As for the Three Keys, I do agree of the original three, the Phoenix Gate/Phoenix comes across as something beyond mortal or third race magic, akin to the Stone/Spirit of Destiny. So count me as someone especially curious to one day getting to witness what the Weird Sisters meant by the Gate being "forged" on Avalon. [/SPOILER]

Matt: Forgot to mention, the week in 2009 between the releases for the trades for Clan Building, Volume 2 and Bad Guys is the last time we've had new canon with only a week's time since the end of season two (and for those who forget, "Hunter's Moon" originally aired back-to-back over three days) :)
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 10:14:28 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

[SPOILER]
Phoenician > Ok, I'm coming around a bit on Renard being the benefactor. Issue 4 seems like forever ago at this point, but I'm recalling that Renard was likely behind that very generous grant to the GTF. His plan seems to be to get a gargoyle captured, provide the most zealous legal representation, and show the world once and for all that they're intelligent and noble creatures. I think. A bit of an underhanded play for a guy so big into integrity. If it is him, I wonder if he would have looped Xanatos in? Xanatos is characteristically smug when he tells the clan about the lawyer, and seems like if the benefactor isn't him, he at least knows who it is. I'd assume Xanatos and Renard are on at least slightly better terms these days, since the events of "The Gathering."

The fact that Goliath isn't paying for his own representation doesn't alter Crest's ethical obligation to Goliath. As Crest himself says, "You're the client." That being said, this is clearly an unprecedented situation, and the motion Crest made was presumably mostly legal arguments that he wouldn't need to consult with Goliath on. And the more I think about it, maybe he wouldn't have even been able to get in to see Goliath previously. Security is probably very tight. Now that he's filed the motion, the court has at least tentatively acknowledged him as Goliath's attorney, so Rikers has to let him in.

Jurgan > That's a good point about the First Amendment line. That slipped by me on my initial reading. I suppose one could say that under the current state of affairs (having to hide and being hunted by the government), the gargoyles are being denied the right to petition and assembly--they don't have the ability to put their side of the story or their viewpoint out there. Certainly, being hunted and having to hide would put an enormous chilling effect on their speech. So, uh, I guess that could be AN argument. But certainly not the primary issue at the moment, as you note. Probably would have been better to just say "constitutional rights" and leave it at that.

Although, as a journalist, Travis might be most concerned with the First Amendment angle because he wants the gargoyles to be able to give interviews. ;)
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 9:42:22 pm EDT from 63.143.199.11

Matthew> Cool idea. Perhaps you are right. [SPOILER] The tricky part is that a lot of the potential candidates for the new keys of power are either completely unknown to us or we don't know enough about them to classify them. Greg B and I were tossing around some ideas earlier. There are certainly a lot of objects in the Gargoyles Universe with potential already, plus a few that showed up in Radio Plays, and it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of the new keys was something brand new to us. [/SPOILER] Fun stuff.
Matt
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 7:55:00 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

[SPOILER] A thought occurs to me, the original Three Keys of Power represent three major, magical sources on Earth. The Grimorum for human magic, the Eye for magic of the Third Race, the Phoenix Gate is speculated to come from Avalon but might also predate the Third Race and is more connected to cosmic power of time itself.

Could it be that any new Keys could have similar origins? One for humanity, one for the Children of Oberon, and one for the primal forces itself?

Maybe something to chew on. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 5:40:28 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Phoenician > [SPOILER] Good point on spells being recited in Hebrew in "Golem." I checked gargwiki's entry for "magic," and it says that Greg has said no language is more magical than any other language. I have no idea where I got the wrongheaded idea that human magic had to be in Latin. Perhaps what I'm thinking of is a behind the scenes explanation Greg might have mentioned (that having Oberon's Children speak plain English was a way to make the audience aware that it was a different type of magic), as opposed to an in-world rule.

I punched the three new spells into Google Translate, and here's what I got (pretty close to what Matthew said earlier):
"Show me where my clan is"
"Show me what happened to the original three keys to power"
"Show me the three new keys to power"
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 5:29:33 pm EDT from 63.143.198.87

I can confirm that the hard copies have all the pages d:

Anyways, a ramblings on #7 "Everywhere" [SPOILER] Gotta love that all the details we have still isn't swaying our collective thoughts about Goliath's "savior" (as Demona put it). For me, I'm once more leaning towards Renard, because of Tobe Crest's own hesitation in considering Xanatos as a character witness, but I guess the proverbial jury is still out, lol.

As for why Crest hasn't met Goliath until this issue, I think the answer has already been established for these last few issues: Goliath's not the one paying the bills. It's not like Crest's a public defender duly appointed to Goliath by the court.

Spells: That last page of the Grimorum been teased for at least twenty-three years, if not more (I just can't find an older reference on AskGreg)! As for the languages, mortal magic can be any language, and we've seen other spells cast in Hebrew (or transliterated from ancient Egyptian), so I take the Gaelic as more of what Ed mentioned, as perhaps an indication of when it was written, closer to its time with the Archmage & Magus than when it was in the possession of the Roman Magus in A.D. 10.

Oh, and Ed, nice catch on the the Eliza/Elisa bit; I missed that on my first read. That's definitely a longtime fan Easter egg to be sure (and still baffling, given that her name was spoken constantly in the original series.)

Dino: I'm worried his 'contingency' might be that this plot being thwarted confirms someone is working against him from within.

Title Puzzle: Another five letters could be "Brook", which could make some sense given his issues with depth perception. [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 5:14:50 pm EDT from 72.216.220.229

Matt: [SPOILER] Since Demona said it took hours to get the spell to work, I figured it was her first time using it. Macbeth could be a good expert witness, since he's already played that role on TV, though to be a character witness he'd have to reveal a lot about himself that he'd prefer remain private. I wonder what the state of professional scholarship is on gargoyles in this world. Were they considered a crackpot theory? Is some fringe researcher who was denied tenure going on AOL and telling everyone he was right all along?

Jeffrey Robbins might be a good witness, he's a respected author. [/SPOILER]
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 3:32:04 pm EDT from 143.120.100.115

Hmmm. I'm currently not seeing any way on Amazon of updating the file, unless I'm missing something. I tried removing the book from my device and re-adding it, but it's still the same version. I'm not too upset since the page is already out there, and my physical copies will be arriving soon. But it is unfortunate that the error will potentially confuse those who haven't seen the preview. Hopefully it's all cleared up before too many people have gotten a chance to read it.

[SPOILER]
I agree with Matt that, while the narration device has sometimes seemed clunky in prior issues, it works great with Demona. And you can really tell how much Greg relished writing in that "voice" again after all this time.

That said, this was definitely a slower issue, and more in the vein of catch-up / exposition, similar to #1 in a way. That was a bit disappointing, but it was still a great opportunity to spend time with Demona and get some teases about her next moves. I am wondering when we'll actually see her in action, since there's so much else going on and she hasn't been mentioned in any other upcoming issue solicitations that I can recall.

Ed > Good thought on the origin of the title.

Also Ed > I believe you're incorrect about George doing his own coloring. The same two Italian ladies are credited for coloring as in the last issue. Perhaps you're looking at the inside cover (which for whatever reason doesn't mention the colorists), but the in-story credits displayed beneath the title do include them. I thought the use of white highlights/edges was very effective and nicely complimented George's work.

While Kambadais has been getting better on getting most of the human characters on-model (while still within his personal style), Travis Marshall is still pretty unrecognizable here. On the other hand, George really nails Demona right out the gate.

Cool to have new spells! During my most recent rewatch a couple of years ago, I was typing all the Latin spells in a Word document and trying to find translations for them all. Nice to be able to add some new ones, albeit mysteriously in Gaelic. I know Greg has said that fey magic is in contemporary English whereas human (or gargoyle) magic is in Latin. Apparently that's not a hard and fast rule. I wonder if Gaelic spells are less powerful than Latin? BTW, nice work on the translations, Matthew. I have no idea if they're accurate, but sounds about right! I'll maybe do a little online sleuthing myself later.

A rare Bronx appearance, although it's just reused art from #2. Besides a brief one-panel appearance in #5, we haven't gotten a glimpse of the beastie since way back in issue 2.

Matt > Good point about Bronx not being bit by the mosquitos in "The Reckoning" (at least, not that we saw). There does appear to be an extra mosquito, as there are seven depicted (two are mostly hidden behind the caption, but their legs are poking out). The samples we know of were: Brooklyn, Broadway, Lexington, Hudson, Elisa, and Demona herself. So she wouldn't have a sample from Goliath either, right? At least not from the mosquitos.

Also, those mosquitos look a lot less mechanical and more insect-like than the ones we saw in the episode.

I like the effect of the flaming floating square "portal" thingees.

Interesting to see Lex's knowledge of the cybots' origin, and even of Renard's intent in designing them. I don't believe we ever saw Lex encounter the cybots, or for that matter, ever meet Renard. I'd never thought about it before, but now I really hope that they do get to share a scene someday. That would be really fun.

I am a bit surprised that Tobe Crest wouldn't have so much as met Goliath before filing his motion.

Which also makes it all the more odd/interesting that he is SO angry when, for instance, the Rikers guard calls Goliath a "thing." Obviously Crest has experienced, and deplores, intolerance in all its forms. And presumably he's been briefed by whoever retained him (likely Xanatos) about Goliath. But without personal experience, why is he so passionately sure that Goliath ISN'T a beast?

I do love how the well-read Goliath immediately grasps all the legal concepts. And the way that Goliath and Crest are two peas in a pod. Crest is completely unintimidated by this new enormous species; just another client meeting. You can see from Goliath's smile that Crest instantly earns his respect as they realize how alike they are.

I also love Goliath refusing to "publicly tie" Elisa's "fortunes to his," even if it means sacrificing his freedom. He's so noble. Great Goliath dialogue in this issue. What other character could say, "I have no material wealth with which to recompense you," without sounding ridiculous?

Nice to see Angela stand up to Brooklyn and defend Broadway and Lex. Wonder what Hudson is thinking in that moment. He doesn't have any lines in this one, but I do like his little smile when Broadway and Lex are finally bonding again.

I found the "once and future clan" line interesting as well. Sounds more like the Demona of early season 1. Is she really deluded enough to still believe she could somehow win the clan back to her side after all that's happened?

While it was cool to see the Archmage and Odin, was there any point to retreading the fates of the Grimorum and the Eye of Odin, when we presumably won't see those objects again? It was fun to have Demona acknowledge implicitly her meeting with Timedancing Brooklyn in the 10th century, and impliedly other odd encounters.

Also interesting that she doesn't yet know WHAT the three new keys to power are (her first step is to identify them). So that definitely means the Praying Gargoyle isn't one of them.

Glad to see the dedication to Michael Reaves at the end.

The Kambadais cover for this one looks especially cool.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 3:23:17 pm EDT from 63.143.203.100

[SPOILER]
Gargoyles #7: Everywhere

Demona returns… sort of. She’s just the narrator here, though at the end she hints at a new plan. Good, using a spell just to see what the clan are up to seemed like a waste, but she turns to something practical at the end. She stated she used blood from her clan to watch them, does that mean she needs some trace of the new “three keys” to find them? Note that Greg specifies this is the “last spell” she took from the Grimorum, so no more surprises. And, of course, the dialogue was perfect and I could hear Marina’s voice. Hope some day she makes it onto the Voices from the Eyrie pod.

The action scene is pretty good, nothing super-special. I had forgotten who Slaughter was until partway through. Little callback in him using the same “don’t mention it- seriously” line of Flash Thompson. Lexington crashing through the windshield is nicely dynamic, and I’m intrigued by Glasses’s promise that Dino, like Xanatos, has already set up a contingency plan if the assassination failed. I love that Broadway still snaps guns in half when he takes them away. It’s also funny how Brooklyn is adopting a parental role regarding Lex and Broadway. No wonder the trio is drifting apart.

Has anyone seen the movie Philadelphia? I haven’t, but I’ve seen a few clips, and Tobe Crest reminds me of Denzel Washington in that movie. That’s probably going to be my head-actor for him, maybe it’s Greg’s as well. He does a good job as a passionate advocate who’s not afraid to talk tough with both the police and his own client. He still doesn’t tell us who is paying him, but I figure it has to be either Renard or Xanatos. Funny how Goliath mentions Xanatos testifying on his behalf, and then both of them quickly realize he’s not the most convincing witness. As for Elisa, I get Goliath not wanting her involved (if and when it comes out that she’s been working with vigilantes, it would be dangerous to her career prospects), but I suspect Tobe is going to try to talk her into it anyways. Matt Bluestone is also a possibility with the same potential drawback. One thing that doesn’t make sense is Travis Marshall’s reference to “first amendment protections” for Goliath. I’m not sure how that applies; a more relevant protection would be the fifth amendment promise of due process before being incarcerated, or the Constitution’s guarantee of the right of habeas corpus. Though it would be interesting to see an argument that the compulsion to protect their territory is a form of religion and therefore is protected under the First Amendment. That seems like a stretch, though.

Anyway, as I’ve said many times, these issues always feel too short, but this gives us something to chew on.

[/SPOILER]
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 2:55:54 pm EDT from 143.120.100.115

For those of you who picked up the digital version of #GargoylesDynamite #7, and found that the first page was missing, I'm told that the problem has been fixed. If you update your e-version, it should all be good. I'm told.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 12:30:03 pm EDT from 70.227.91.143

Sorry for the double post, but what's with the first letter of the titles of 1-7 spelling "AIMTRUE....."? It can't be random or coincidence at this point, right? And yet, it doesn't seem to have any significance that we can see. Five letters left. Could be a name (Elisa, David, Bronx, Crest, etc.) or more than one short word. Chapter 8 will help a lot, perhaps. Interesting.
Matt
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 11:30:54 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

HIM Chapter 7> Back with my thoughts. Haven't talked to anyone, so I'm sure I'm missing some things, but here we go:
[SPOILER] - My digital copy is apparently missing the first page. Fortunately, that page was already shown to us, so I wasn't missing anything. And I know from our previous problem in Chapter 2 that the digital versions can be altered. I just hope the physical copies are also not missing a page!

- Love the opening pages with Demona. I did not expect her as a narrator, but shes perfect for it. She has always had a tendency to talk to herself, likely out of loneliness, so this narration feels much ore natural than the others have been.

- Gotta love how she turns off the TV when Elisa comes on. Enough of that. Ha!

- My suspicion on Demona's alternate ways of getting news was that she was in contact with Angela. Turns out Angela is that last of the (Season 2) clan that she is tapping into for information. We finally get to the last spell from the Grimorum. I can't remember how long ago Greg told us there was one left, but good to move that bit of canon in training into solid canon territory. It appears to be a seeing spell of sorts. I'll be curious to get the translations soon. Apparently, the spell takes a lot of time and a bit of blood or body to be able to watch them. I get the sense that Demona removed these mosquitos from Nightstone shortly after "The Reckoning" and has been watching the clan ever since. Peeking in periodically. So, she's probably very up to date on the Manhattan Clan past and present. Lots to think about there, but we can assume she knows pretty much everything (and Everyone! *roll credits*) about the Clan for more than six months! I had hoped we would get some resolution to Demona's baffling encounters with a time-traveling Brooklyn and we certainly did! I'm curious how she is able to see Bronx and the rookery since Bronx's blood was not sampled by the robotic mosquitos. Perhaps she is seeing him there in the rookery with Egwardo in the past from someone else's perspective? Hmmm. That said, Demona is now well aware that the Manhattan Clan has an egg!

- Demona several times refers to the Manhattan Clan (current and future) as her clan. That's interesting to me. She never did that much before, but perhaps Angela's arrival changed her perspective on this.

- We continue the Broadway/Lex vs. Cybots battle. This is fun. "That stings!" is a nice callback to Goliath's line in "Outfoxed". The cybots really come off as bee-like in a way I hadn't really thought of before. The stings, the swarming nature, the independent action with the hive-mind. That's fun. And always great to see Lex's technical abilities used. Been a while there. I was expecting Lex to put on Recap when he got it from Glasses and take control of the swarm, but instead he just broke it. Oh well. Still the mystery of how Dracon's crew got both Recap and Cybots. Not just something you can pick up at Mr. Jaffe's store, after all. The car Glasses and Pal Joey are in is the same one (with a dented roof!) that Hudson attacked, so that confirms they were the kidnappers, I suppose. And Slaughter survives thanks to Lex and Broadway. He's a bad guy, I guess, but he owes them. Wonder if he'll use his film company to repay the favor. I get a "Broadway Goes to Hollywood" vibe here... Of course, Slaughter might not be out of the woods yet. Dino's got backup plans...

- Glad to see Goliath and Tobe finally chat. Tobe seems unafraid, even comfortable, with gargoyles. That is odd. We still have no reveal on who hired him. If it was Renard, he gave no indication of that when Halcyon was brought up. I'm still betting Xanatos given what X said in Chapter 6 and that Tobe (in agreement with Goliath) wants to leave Xanatos out of things. I was trying to think who else Goliath might want as a character witness. Macbeth? Dr. Sato? Brendan Quarters? Seems Goliath wants to keep Elisa and Bluestone out of it, which seems wise. Another callback line with "That's one thing we have in common." from Goliath. Makes it especially easy to hear the voice actors.

- Brooklyn reprimands Broadway and Lex. And leaves it at that? I wonder if there will be more fallout from this down the road. I laughed at "high eight!" Good stuff.

- The original Three Keys of Power appear. Demona learns their fate (who would've thought Odin would show up in Chapter 7?!). And she has reason to suspect there will be new keys of power. I'm excited to learn what they are and what they can do. I know we've speculated on them before. That is probably what I'm most excited about moving forward.

- All in all, I'd say this was a good chapter and interesting in it's way, but not one of my favorites. Still, lots of fun stuff. And I suspect this chapter is laying the groundwork for much that is to come. It's nice that we have a mere three weeks until the next chapter! Good times. And, of course, Dark Ages comes out next week! It occurred to me this morning that I don't think we've had new content come out in consecutive weeks since the show originally aired. What a good time to be a Gargoyles fan! [/SPOILER]

Looking forward to your thoughts! Never the End!
Matt
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 11:23:34 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

A friend has been reading through old Batman comics, specifically the pre-COIE version of Jason Todd (well, technically that version lasted a few issues after COIE before being replaced by the now-standard street kid who steals the tires off the Batmobile.) It's been interesting to see that, actually, quite a lot of what gets written off as copying Dick's Robin years could also be read as foiling them - the characters seeing the parallels and reacting to them (and of course differences like Joseph and Trina Todd actively trying to spy on Killer Croc for the heroes before he killed them, instead of Batman getting involved after the fact.) At any rate, I realized - there's almost nothing established about Earth-16 Jason to begin with, so... technically we don't know for sure which version of the backstory they're going with. And if memory serves, Greg has mentioned a couple times that Dick gave the Robin mantle to Jason without any of the firing-and-replacing drama - which is about right for the pre-COIE version too.

...this is all baseless speculation, but I do think it'd be a fun way to blindside the fanbase if in a hypothetical season 5, we finally start getting into Jason backstory, and it's all about how his parents got fed to crocodiles. Perhaps with a cameo by his legal godfather, the circus clown Waldo Flynn. I just think that'd be fun.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 9:57:34 am EDT from 72.10.127.194

Some quick thoughts on issue number 7.

[SPOILER] This seemed a much shorter story, even without the first page missing. But perhaps that's because Demona is acting as an observer rather than a participant in the action. This might be the first time we've seen a Grimorum spell done in Gaelic rather than in Latin, it makes me think this was a recent (relatively speaking) addition to the list of spells. Also makes me wonder how the book was updated over the years. Alas, such mysteries may be lost ever since the Archmage decided to swallow it.

I did some quick etymological research. Demona's spells seem to translate to, "Show where my kindred are for me." "Where are the original three keys to power?" "Where are the new keys to power." But don't quote me on that, I'm certainly not a linguist.

The implications of that are huge, Greg's toyed with the "nature abhors a vacuum" trope before in Spectacular Spider-Man and Young Justice. So the notion that with the Grimorum destroyed, the Eye returned to its origin and the Phoenix looping through time a new set of powered artifacts will come to play is pretty big. Part of me wonders that new keys to power couldn't to the center until the old ones were taken off the board. Or maybe pre-existing items like the Stone of Destiny may step up to fulfill the roles previously used by the other three.

And finally, I'd like to touch on Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington. We don't know much about how Brooklyn acted while leading the Clan during Goliath's absence, but it's clear that he's no longer the gargoyle he once was. He's older and probably out of practice in leading a group. Broadway and Lex are relatively the same maturity wise and no longer have the same dynamic with their rookery brother because now age-wise he's closer to being a rookery uncle. I think what's needed is a serious heart-to-heart about where each of them stand and what they can do in the future. Because Brooklyn can't lead a group he hasn't interacted with in twenty of his years. And the Duo can't just slip back into the relationship they once had.
[/SPOILER]

Next up is Dark Ages, can't wait!
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 4:10:52 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

Oh and... [SPOILER] "Everywhere". "A Midsummer Night's Dream" ref? "I do wander everywhere / Swifter than the Moon's sphere"? [/SPOILER]
Ed
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 12:09:21 am EDT from 86.143.240.166

Gorgeous new issue. Don't have as much time for a page-by-page like normal but some relatively quick thoughts.

[SPOILER] Glad I checked the previews because the first page is missing off the electronic issue. Hope it's updated in due course.

Felt like a great jump-on issue - slightly slower but a good survey of where the action is at. Demona's narration was stronger than usual and, let's face it, terrific fun.

Demona's spell seems to be Gaelic suggesting that the spells were added to the Grimorum closer to her own time and possibly the Keys to Power could be post-Roman as well. I love the back references here to the original keys and to the mosquitos and spell pages.

Interestingly she says it's easier to look "backwards NOT FORWARDS" (emphasis mine) suggesting perhaps that she's looking at events slightly ahead of time and meaning that Demona could be somewhere else in Manhattan by this point. She also mentions that the keys are to "conquer" rather than "destroy" humanity although I'm sure the former would precede the latter.

Some nice gags such as mispronouncing Elisa and "high eight".

Highlight of the issue for me was the Goliath/Crest scene - overdue and very satisfying with all-time classic lines like "the human race barely tolerates its own diversity". I think Goliath is right for many reasons to fear consequences for Elisa from testifying - personally, professionally, publicly...

The Lex/Broadway stuff with Slaughter was great fun too. And of course Dino has a contingency. Still, I'm not clear that Lex even recognised Glasses or that Broadway connected the dots... they seemed happy enough having foiled the crime rather than having solved the case at this point.

Checked the credits as the colours seemed a little glossier and with deeper choices - looks like George Kambadais is back on his own colours. Cool.

Superb issue and I believe the next is still scheduled for this month? Crazy busy next week so not sure how much time I'll have to respond to Dark Ages but I'll be looking forward to it! [/SPOILER]
Ed
posted @ Wed, Jul 5, 2023 12:03:15 am EDT from 86.143.240.166

Oh and Happy 4th of July from me.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Jul 4, 2023 10:45:33 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

Finally checked out Gremlins Secret of the Mogwai. Did not disappoint and look forward to Season 2.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Jul 4, 2023 10:45:00 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

I wonder what Bronx's response was to the fireworks on the first Fourth of July following the clan's reawakening. (Since the London clan doesn't have any beasts, they won't have to address their response to Guy Fawkes Night celebrations.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jul 4, 2023 10:15:57 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Happy 4th, my American friends!

Super excited about Chapter 7. For me, the digital version drops at 11pm tonight. I'll avoid the Comment Room until I have time to get my thoughts down, as usual. See you then!
Matt
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"
posted @ Tue, Jul 4, 2023 6:21:53 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

And happy Fourth of July, everyone!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jul 4, 2023 9:58:14 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

MATTHEW - Yes, based on what I remember of him from "The Spectacular Spider-Man", I agree that Eddie Brock fits the "twisted image" role.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 9:06:07 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Pardon the double post, but while the Spider talk is relevant, I have two new chapters to post.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14206708/4/Spider-Man-Web-of-Fate

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14206708/5/Spider-Man-Web-of-Fate
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 8:59:52 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Todd> Spider-Man is unlucky enough to have multiple arch-enemies. The two you mentioned, plus Venom and on occasion the Kingpin (filled in by Tombstone for Spectacular).

And you are right, a good number of his rogues gallery are darkly reflective of him. Eddie Brock comes from similar circumstances as Peter but lacked familial support in key parts of his life, thus creating a good, supportive bro on the surface but beneath that is a bitter, angry young man who feels he's owed something good for all that he's gone through. Something that the Venom symbiote makes much worse.

Even other villains like Electro are similar. An everyday from a humble background is suddenly given amazing power in an accident. Spectacular makes him gradually lose bits of humanity and with it his sanity but his comics counterpart has no such problem. He's like Peter except one who continues to use his power for selfish means.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 8:58:19 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

B - Glad you liked it. I'm a cat lover too.

With "Double Jeopardy" being the next episode in line for "Voices from the Eyrie", it struck me that there are two topics connected to Thailog that would be very appropriate for that podcast.

1. Greg Weisman's stand that one of the keys to creating a good villain (or antagonist, at least) is that they have strong echoes (or contrasts) to the hero. Thailog is a clear example of that, as Goliath's clone who is very unlike Goliath. Greg discussed how other adversaries of the gargoyles (Xanatos, Demona, Macbeth, etc.) tied in with that at "Ask Greg" once, followed by taking a similar stance on Batman's "rogues' gallery", that the best Batman villains are the ones who echo Batman in some way.

(Which might prompt a similar discussion of Spiderman's "rogues' gallery", given Greg's work on "The Spectacular Spider-Man". I'll leave it to others who are more expert on Spiderman than I am to discuss this, but I know that two of his main enemies are the Green Goblin and Dr. Octopus. The Green Goblin is a figure with a "spooky persona" (goblins and spiders both have that kind of atmosphere) and a secret identity (which, if "The Spectacular Spider-Man" was an example, he did a great job of concealing). As for Dr. Octopus - spiders have eight legs and octopi have eight tentacles, making an octopus-style adversary for Spiderman natural (not to mention they're both scientists who got their abilities through lab accidents - at least from "The Spectacular Spider-Man"'s perspective). There ought to be an examination of that element in "Young Justice" as well, but I'm also leaving that for others.)

And venturing outside Greg's work - "The Owl House" struck me as another good example of that motif, with the parallels between Luz and Belos/Philip Wittebane; both are Earthling humans who stumble into the Boiling Isles and learn glyph magic, though with very different goals and purposes - and in the final episode, Luz genuinely gets to speak to the Titan (which Philip/Belos had claimed he was able to do), though bringing back a very different message....

2. The "Bastard" archetype, which Thailog definitely fits. We know that Greg's favorite Shakespeare character is Edmund in "King Lear", who's another example of that archetype (and who seems to have been an unconscious influence on Thailog - from the "production" point of view). Superboy in "Young Justice" struck me as another example of that archetype, if in a much more heroic style, of course.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 8:17:46 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Well no responses yet, but I did start a Gargoyles thread for the comic forum on TV Tropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16884178850A33563500

Yeah there is a thread in the animation section, just figured even the slightest bit of attention is handy.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 6:26:06 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

Todd Jensen> Thanks for another brilliant poem! "My emblem is the lion", ay? My Mom's birthday is late this month and she's a Leo. Which is appropriate as we're big cat lovers. I was born in the Year of the Tiger.
B
B
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 10:21:26 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

First.

My emblem is the Lion, and I breathe
The breath of Libyan deserts o'er the land;
My sickle as a sabre I unsheathe,
And bent before me the pale harvests stand.
The lakes and rivers shrink at my command,
And there is thirst and fever in the air;
The sky is changed to brass, the earth to sand;
I am the Emperor whose name I bear.

"July", "The Poet's Calendar", Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jul 3, 2023 8:32:35 am EDT from 174.72.60.154