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RAMBLE, RAMBLE, RAMBLE
GARGOYLES, SEX and ROMANCE
Did that get your attention?
I've seen a lot of discussion as to whether or not it's appropriate for
FanFiction to depict the characters from Gargoyles having sex (graphic or
otherwise). I thought I'd weigh in with my opinion. BUT IT'S JUST MY
OPINION.
Let me start with my standard disclaimer. I don't read fanfiction. I feel
I can't take the legal risk. I don't want to get sued by a disgruntled
fanauthor who at some point down the road thinks I stole an idea from him or
her. I also have very mixed feelings about fanfiction in general. Part of
me is very gratified. Part of me feels territorial. I've talked about all
of this in greater detail elsewhere.
But should fanfiction based on or in the "Gargoyles Universe" include sex?
Yeah, sure. I don't see a problem with it... at least not in theory. In
practice, might be another matter.
But let's talk about theory first. Many relationships in the Gargoyles
series pack a pretty hefty erotic charge. (At least I think so.) Fox &
Xanatos and Goliath & Elisa are obvious. If we're talking flashbacks, then
I'd also say Goliath & Demona is pretty obvious as well. And you don't have
to look hard to find less obvious choices. So why not explore that? I
wouldn't put graphic depictions of sex on broadcast tv for an afternoon
audience of children, but this is a different medium. I think Gargoyles
should be able to expand into whatever medium it encounters. I hope I built
the show strong enough to survive that. I think there needs to be some
safeguarding for children, but beyond that, if sex stories don't interest
you... DON'T READ 'EM. And no harm done.
Personally, I've had a few fairly graphic fantasies about Gargoyle Mating
Habits, about Goliath and Demona's first time. About Goliath and Elisa's
burgeoning relationship. I don't know where I'd ever write those up, but I
won't deny that the idea fascinates me. (If that makes me a pervert, well,
I can live with that label, I suppose. Though frankly, I don't buy into
that.)
Where it doesn't work for me is in that old "in practice" arena. First off,
gargoyles aside, there's a lot of very bad writing being done in the
so-called adult corners of the net. (Frankly, there's a lot of bad writing
everywhere.) Bad writing is bad writing is bad writing. Gratuitous
Gargoyle sex doesn't interest me. (Alright, well maybe a little, but it
doesn't make for good story-telling. And GARGOYLES was always about telling
great tales, not getting some tail.)
But more importantly, (and this is what I really wanted to RAMBLE about) I
have a sense that fanauthors are letting my characters "get some" a lot more
often than I think I'd believe. That's where ROMANCE comes in. (Thought
I'd forgotten about romance, didn't you?) I think collectively, Gargoyles
Fans lean toward the romantic. And I'll include myself. There's a desire
to find Brooklyn a mate. To find Lex a mate. To find Hudson a mate. To
find Owen a mate. To find... Well, you get the idea. Again, I'm as guilty
of this as anyone. We weren't halfway through writing "Her Brother's
Keeper" when I realized that Fox was in love with Xanatos, thus creating a
relationship that I couldn't resist exploring. If I had done BAD GUYS you
would have seen a difficult but intense chemistry between Harry and Robyn
(Dingo and Hunter to the uninitiated). New Olympians would have had a Romeo
& Juliet relationship as one of its core dynamics. Plus there's the
Tom-Katharine-Magus triangle. Coldstone and Coldfire. Oberon and Titania.
Macbeth and Gruoch. The list is pretty darn endless. But there are a
couple things that put the breaks on actual SEX.
One is that TRAGEDY is a built in factor in the dramatic truth of the
Gargoyles Universe. I'm not... I can't make life easy on these characters.
Oh, every once and awhile sure. And Gargoyles is basically a series
grounded in HOPE for a better tomorrow. But if I'm going to be a good
dramatic storyteller, I can't make things too easy. So when are Goliath and
Elisa going to have sex? No time soon, as far as I'm concerned. It took
them 65 episodes to kiss, for heaven's sake. There are a lot of roadblocks.
Elisa can no longer deny her love for Goliath, but that's not the same as
committing to him. And frankly, I don't think she's there even yet. They
haven't even talked about their feelings. Elisa has studiously refused to
talk about hers, beyond finally acknowledging that they exist. When they do
talk, as I've noted before, I think they'll mutually come to the conclusion
to break up before they ever really get together. In theory, Elisa still
wants a normal life. They're going to have to learn that they're love is
inevitable. It'll be awhile before they get to attempting any kind of
sexual fulfillment. And actual intercourse is a LONG WAY away, assuming it
EVER HAPPENS.
What about the others? Well, I've no doubt that Fox and David go at each
other like rabbits. No doubt that they're quite adventurous, even kinky.
But don't expect much from any of the others.
I gather that in fanfiction, Brooklyn was mating more than Hugh Hefner. But
that brings us back to the tragedy factor. If I were still writing this
thing, I wouldn't make it easy for him to find a mate. Heck, he has to time
travel back to Feudal Japan to do it. One of the tragedies of the Gargoyles
is that their race has been so decimated, that it's a good question as to
whether the species can survive at all. AT ALL. So I'm not, or I should
say, I wouldn't start introducing a number of new gargoyles (female or male)
that would allow Brooklyn or Lex to suddenly and easily find a companion.
It CAN'T be that easy, no matter how much we'd like it to be.
This isn't arbitrary. I think it's really HARD to find a lifemate. REALLY
HARD. I'd be lying through story, if I made that seem easy.
And I'm NOT going to be handing out human mates to Gargoyles on a regular
basis either. Elisa and Goliath HAVE to be special. The problems they're
facing MUST be unique. Or else, all their angst is reduced to just a lot of
whining and indecision. So don't expect to see a lot of human/gargoyle
pairings. Either in flashback, the present or the future. I'd tend to be
extremely stingy with that.
And Hudson. Well, I've made a big deal about Gargoyles mating for life.
Then in the key relationship of the series... I blow that myth away.
Goliath mates with Demona. They, in essence, divorce, and Goliath begins a
new relationship with Elisa. So someone has to carry the dramatic weight of
that mate for life thing. So Hudson gets the nod. Sure in Dark Ages, I bet
he and his mate were getting it on regularly. But now that she's gone, I
think he's going to carry a torch for her forever. Forever. I know it's
sad. But nothing else makes sense to me. I can't live in a universe
without sadness. I can't create one either.
And talk about tragedy, how about Coldstone and Coldfire. I suppose someone
could write a story about built-in robotic sex organs, but dramatically,
that changes everything about their relationship. Yes, finally, they are
together. But
Anonymous writes...
O.k heres some questions that have really been bugging me. I have been
trying to do this e-mail for a long time. I really hope you get a chance
to read this and respond:)
1) You said that Lex would be getting a mate in time. Will she be a
gargoyle?
2) You said that you had had different ideas in mind for Ransom but the
same basic ideas were there. Dose this mean that Lex and Alex were going to be
buds in a sense?
3) Since we know Lex will be getting a mate have you determined if they
will be similar in that they will both be computer geniuses?
4) Somebody asked you once if Lex would have had a mate befor the end of
the show. You asked which show? Let me try this then. Would Lex have started
to be involved with someone by the third season?
4) O.k, I'll try not to be to confusing. When we first saw Angela on
Avalon it seemed that her and Gabrial(sorry if his name is spelled wrong) had
something going on. Both when we were first introduced to the characters
and after they returned to the island for a second time. But Angela is now
with Broadway so was this relationship just in my head or was Gabrial in the
opinion that Angela and him were and item?
5) So you say that we missed a scene in Awakenings part 1# where Lex was
looking at a catapult or something. Do you know what he was going to say?
Just interested:)
6) You said that you, at the time, were not going to give any information
about how Lex met his mate because it was kinda complicated. Please,
Please could you give some idea of what you wanted to have happen? We know so
much about Brooklyn and Sata.
Bell rang! Thank you so much for all the enjoyment you have given me and
countless other fans. Oh and just for the record, when the show first
started I WAS in the proposed age gro
up to watch it:)
Greg responds...
1. I'm not answering that now.
2. That's about the only thing in Ransom, other than the notion of
a kidnapping that did survive.
3. No, I haven't worked that out yet.
4. I've answered this before, but briefly, it must have been in
your head. They always responded to each other like brother and sister.
Nothing else was ever intended by us or Gabriel. As I've stated, Gabriel's
mate is Ophelia.
5. Gosh, it was something like "What an intriguing device?" or
somesuch. It's been so long.
6. Who's Sata? You mean Katana? You don't know much from me about
Brooklyn and Katana. Just that they met in feudal Japan.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
Okay, time for a little "Answer Greg" section before we get on to the
questions. :)
1. You asked how I knew the title for that MiB ep you wrote. I really do
wish that they (that everyone, in fact) would list the titles with each
episode because I like to know, it helps catalogue tapes and discuss eps,
etc. But anyway, I found out about the title just by hearing someone else
mention it (In this forum, I think). Since I knew of only the one ep you
wrote, and it was about dreams, I put it together and guessed. I actually
still wonder how _that_ person knew the title, but oh well. I also made a
mistake in my comment about that ep -- it was the _gumming_ scene I liked,
not the icing scene. Wrong weapon. And btw, it's nice to know you're
writing more episodes. :)
2. The contest -- I may as well try my hand at it, even though my
Arthurian
legend is shaky. Arthur, Merlin, Lady of the Lake, Nimue, Morgana,
Galahad, and Mordred. Now comments.
3. I'd just like to say that I enjoyed the World Tour series. Sure, I made
fun of it in top ten lists and filksongs and such, but I really did like
seeing all the different clans of gargoyles (I loved the Guatemalan and
London gargs), and a lot of the stories were really cool. "Shadows of the
Past", for example. So you can add one more person to the list of people
who didn't think that the Avalon Tour was a mistake.
4. When someone asked you about writing, you said you started by writing
stories with your spelling sentences in second grade. I used to do that
all the time. :) _Now_ questions.
5. How old would Katana and the children be when they returned with
Brooklyn
from Timedancing? (This is my "again, other time" posting of this q.)
6. Many people have asked about where Avalon is on a map, but what about
New Olympus?
7. What were some of the things that Elisa retrieved from the ruins of the
clocktower?
8. Was Goliath the only person in history besides the Archmage to ever
have all three of the "ultimate magical artifacts" at once? Well, come to think
of it, he only had half the P-Gate, but that scene in "Vows" where he
walks by his entire collection to get the Gate just kills me. Especially when I
think of how sorcerers through the ages must have strived to find all
those things, and Goliath doesn't seem to notice the enormity of his possession
of the artifacts.
9. At the end of "City of Stone," Macbeth is holding an unconscious Demona
and about to drop her onto a jagged piece of metal to kill her. But how
can he be conscious if she's not? Was this an oversight, or is there some
reason?
10. Just a random little question. In the humanlike form that she prefers,
is Mab blue like Oberon, or is she some other color?
11. a. I suppose you probably won't feel like telling, but what was Arthur
doing looking for Merlin at the South Pole? b. About how long would Arthur
search for Merlin before finding him? c. If Oberon was calling his
children to the Gathering, wouldn't he want his _biological_ children (ie Merlin)
there? Or does he even know that Merlin's his son? Okay, that about does
it for me. Thank you!
Greg responds...
1. Ahh.
2. Nope.
3. Thanks. That makes two of us.
4. cool.
5. O.K. Hold on, I'll go look it up. O.K. I'm back. I never did
the math on Katana, but I did do the math on the kids. Nash is 26 years old
(biologically thirteen). Tachi is six years old (biologically three).
6. It's a secret.
7. Well, I'm sure she picked up Zafiro's sun amulet. Some
photographs, including a picture of herself in the Belle dress dancing with
Goliath. She picked up the gargoyles radio equipment. A few other
momentos. Some books, probably.
8. Cool, huh? I think someone previous to the Archmage must have
put them together at least once, so that the Archmage even knew to do it.
9. If you hit Macbeth, Demona is hurt too. But not so much as if
you had hit her directly. The spell is a great equalizer, but not a
complete equalizer, if that makes sense.
10. Mab? Humanlike? It is too laugh.
11a. The foxtrot? b. Depends on how many episodes were ordered in
the first season (of a non-existent show). c. He knows Merlin is his son.
He has a, shall we say, difficult relationship with the boy.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
I know it happens a lot with a lot of people, but I still want to
apologize for forgetting q's. Ah well, just one extra post. 12 (or 1, depending).
Could you reveal a little of the story behind Oberon's and Titania's
Mirrors? Were they wedding presents or something? Who made them? And how
did Titania lose hers to the museum -- does she care that it's gone and
destroyed now?
Greg responds...
Sorry Tanika. But this isn't really a good format to tell entire
stories. And obviously there's a whole story or two behind those mirrors.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
Dear Greg: In the episode "The New Olypians" when Borieus handed down
Elisa's sentence of never being able to leave New Olympus, he makes a
comment hoping she comes to enjoy her life there. Were we as viewers
suppose to think that he was interested in her and that's why he imposed
the sentence? Looking forward to reading your answer.
Greg responds...
No. He wasn't interested in her. He simply bore her know ill will
and hoped that her "sentence" wouldn't be too horrible for her.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
One more quick question: If a gargoyle is chipped or slightly damaged in
stone form, what happens when they wake up? To chips tranlate to scars,
or just disappear? What if someone vandalizes a stone gargoyle, such as
chiseling off just their hand?
Greg responds...
I guess a lot would depend on how much time was left before sunset.
Slight damage would have time to heal. Gross damage might have time to seal
up at least, but I wouldn't count on a gargoyle surviving major trauma.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
It occured to me one day that alot more people like your show than I
thought. Have you ever thought about releasing your stories in a book. You
could fit virtually a whole season in what, 200, 300 pages?? Have you ever
thought about this type of media to put out more stories. You could put
out multiple volumes, of the different seasons and different spin-offs. THis
would let you get alot more indepth. You've probably though about this
before but I was bored and thought I'd post this. Would the money hungry
Communist a.k.a Disney let you do this?? Thank in advance
Greg responds...
Disney's hardly communistic. Quite the reverse. I'm sure they'd
let me do it if they thought they could make money off of it. But there
aren't any publishers banging down my door to ask for this stuff. If there
was, I'd gladly start working. Do you know anyone?
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
Please answer these few questions, I try to keep it short and brief. I
haven't had the chance to watch Gargoyles lately, due to work and all, so
please excuse my wording, for I forget the episode's names.
1.) When Goliath, Angela, Elisa, and Bronx end up meeting Odin, the
gargoyles seem to be fine in the freezing weather, while poor Elisa and
freezing her butt off. Then in "The Price" (I remembered, one of my favs),
Brooklyn complains about the cold weather. I am sure the Norse country was
much colder than New York, so was that just an exageration on Brooklyn's
part? (It's not an important question, just crossed my mind)
2.) Bronx is like a "dog-oyle" so to speak, were there any plans for a
"cat-oyle"?
3.)Goliath knew about Demona and Macbeth, but when Demona and Thailog fell
to their "deaths", he thought Demona was dead, but knew that she can only
die by Macbeth's hand. Was that a mistake that slipped by, or do I have my
episodes mixed up?
4.) Was there any more plans for Elisa to become a gargoyle again?
5.) Whatever happened to Vinny after he "creamed" Goliath?
6.) Why doesn't Talon seem to want to be human again? Thank you!
Greg responds...
1. Anyone can complain about something. That doesn't mean they are
really suffering.
2. Bronx has much in common with a dog obviously, but he's a
gargoyle beast, not a dog-goyle. There are only two "gargate" species.
Gargoyles and Gargoyle Beasts. There's a lot of variation in there, but no
equivalents for every animal on the planet.
3. Sigh. I've answered this before. Goliath doesn't know the
extent of Demona and Macbeth's link. It's hard to operate with certainty
about it. Besides, he wasn't indicating that she was dead. Just that he
couldn't be sure.
4. No.
5. He briefly joined the Quarrymen. Then he moved to Japan.
6. He does. He's simply resigned to the idea that it isn't likely
to happen.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
Will you be at the 1998 Gathering of the Gargoyles
Greg responds...
I hope to be, and it's looking good. I just got my plane tickets
TODAY. As soon as the hotel's confirmed, I'll make an official
announcement.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
Anonymous writes...
Where on the evoltionary path do humans and gargoyles differ? Meaning when
did they go in different directions.
Greg responds...
I'd say they diverged before homo sapiens existed as a distinct
race. Perhaps back at the dawn of mammals. But I won't be held to that
answer.
(GDW / 7-14-98)
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