A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Hey. ive been reading all of this stuff about making lexington gay. i think that would be okay but what if little kids that watch this show would think its al right to be gay? i like that fact by making him gay but if little kids watch it and start to like the fact of being gay thier parents might get mad. anyway i like the idea im just wondering about little kids. GARGOYLES FOREVER!
Well, you are in essence raising THREE issues.
One involves how Lexington will be portrayed in the future.
One involves what I personally think is and isn't appropriate for little kids.
And one involves how SOME parents might react.
So let's take them one at a time.
1. Gargoyles is owned by Disney, and I'd be kidding you and myself if I didn't recognize that there are certain limits to what Disney will allow. My goal with Lex is to be honest and consistent in HIS portrayal. Not to be titillating (let alone pornographic). Frankly, I wish I had the freedom to be more forthright. Perhaps there's an element of cowardice in my middle ground position. I'll cop to that. But I'm just trying to tell stories honestly. I face restrictions. I live with those restrictions. What that means practically, is that few people beyond the hardcore fandom will see Lex's orientation as any kind of issue at all.
2. Personally, I think little kids should (a) know that there are homosexuals out there and (b) know that they are just as human (or gargoylian) as anybody else. They aren't "sinners" or whatever other fill-in-the-blank name anyone feels like throwing around irresponsibly. That's just my opinion, but it is one that I feel strongly about.
3. Certainly some parents would disagree with me. Others wouldn't. But this brings our circular discussion back to the beginning. There isn't going to be anything in Gargoyles for parents to object to. We're not going to be depicting homosexual sex anymore than we're going to be depicting heterosexual sex. And unless the climate in our country changes considerably, we won't even be discussing the issue. I'll simply try to be honest in the depiction of my characters, whether or not I feel those characters are gay or straight.
Sorry for two different questions, but as I was browsing through the unanswered questions at the time, I noticed that one mentioned that they supported your move to make Lexington homosexual.
1) Is this true
1b.) If so, why?
2.) Is this referenced in the series? It probably isn't, but I've only started rewatching the show so I may have missed something about it.
As a fan of the show who is homosexual, this strikes me as strange, since this is technically a children's show. If you did do this, I commend you. If you didn't, you still rock.
1. Is it true they support it? I don't know.
1b. Not sure.
2. It's not. Although I don't think we're inconsistent with the interpretation.
I'm not exactly trying to be commendable. The characters often tell us their truths. But I'm not unhappy that you like the idea.
To add a little more to what I was sort of rambling about the other day I would like to say a few more things.
First I think it is really cool that you continue to push the boundaries of the show. I am well aware that the target audience was boys ages 6-11, but I think the mark you hit was seriously more for adults.
I know there certainly were elements that made it a kids show, but there was always that sub element of adult themes, thank you.
I think, once again the choice to make Lexington gay was a bold and good move. I think he represents the homosexual community in a good way, not the stereotypical, blatantly affeminant sort of way. Not that that isn't a norm in the segment of the population but not all homosexuals are like that.
I don't have much to add to my response to your last post.
Our central target was boys 6-11, but that was never the sum total of our aim. We tried, and I believe succeeded, in writing the show on multiple levels so that there was something for boys and girls and men and women. Kids of all ages and species.
I assume a lot of us know your decision to make Lexington gay. I believe this to an incredibly bold move on your part for a television show geared at kids. I do support the decision however. I think it takes Gargoyles "one step further" from being a children's oriented show.
Not the homosexuality isn't a subject children can understand but rather, it moves away from the story book ending of "Boy meets girl, boy and girl get married" sort of thing. I applaud this move.
I also think in terms of in series story lines it creates yet another reproduction issue for the Manhattan clan, as Lexington will never have children. I don't have any specific questions as to his mate for two reasons.
1) I enjoyed the series because I watched it unfold before me, not because I KNEW what was coming next. Every turn was a new suprise. I remember such great moments as the Avalon clan not being eggs, and the mutates first being introduced. I loved the edge my seat experience each show had.
2) I have guessed by now that you feel the same way. I think you desperately want to hold this good stuff in because you ( and I) want the show back on the air. Not that every fan doesn't want it back, but I am willing to sit on my questions for as long as it takes until the show is back. I want to see it unfold on screen.
I will buy multiple copies of the DVD later this year
Let me start with this... I don't really consider it a "decision" to make Lex gay... anymore than I considered it a decision to make Macbeth immortal or Xanatos machiavellian. It's just who he is.
Beyond that, I tend to agree with your two points. The show may not be returning to the air anytime soon, but with the new comic book series coming out, I am less and less inclined to give away ANYTHING. As it is, I know I've already given away WAY too much. Certain things that would, I believe, have been amazing surprises, are now only going to be interesting to the hardcore fan from the standpoint of execution. "Did he pull it off or not?"
The thought has crossed my mind to change things so that I can surprise you all. But I made a conscious decision not to change things for that reason. Some things may change, as nothing but the canon 65 are etched in stone. So if I come up with a better idea, I may go with that better idea. But otherwise...
So thanks for buying the DVDs and please keep an eye out for the comics...
On the latest Avalon Mists, i found this little blurb:
"- *Revealed at the 2003 Gathering, it would have been implied in future Gargoyles episodes that Lexington was gay."
Is that true? It brings up a lot of questions besides that too, like how you would go about addressing homosexuality on such a show, and whithin what kind of story framework?
Though it never came to fruition, I hope it is true. I'm bisexual (leaning to gay, women are scary) and the thought of an important character being gay in official canon, on a widely seen show is a big positive to me. I know there are other shows where's a big issue, but I can't stand Queer as Folk or Will and Grace, they just suck.
And hell, Lex is sexy.
I think the blurb you quoted MIS-represented what I said at that Gathering.
What I said, I believe, is that in my opinion Lex is gay -- though he may not yet realize it. And that we would be consistent with that knowledge... as I believe we have been up to this point.
But that in the current world climate we would not be addressing it on the show at all. Not explicitly or implicitly. It's a damn shame, and since we're talking about episodes that don't exist it would be easy for me to be brave now and pretend that we'd be open about it, but that would be a lie of expectation, and I try to be more honest than that with the fans.
All I promised was consistency. It may sound like a subtle distinction, but believe me it is not.
It may also sound like a cop-out, and believe me, IT IS. But it's a cop-out that comes out of the fact that if I even attempted an implicit portrayal, it flat out would not get on the air. And I could stand my ground. And I would get fired. And then there'd be no consistency either.
Someday, I hope to live in a braver more understanding world... but we ain't there yet. And I think what we're doing is at least a step in the right direction.
1) Is Lexington really gay? Why then did he pursue Angela or did he just pursue her like the rest of the trio because his rookery brothers were pursuing her?
2) When did you realize that Lexington was gay? Was it during the writing and production of the show or years after the show got cancelled because I really didn't see any hints about his homosexuality in the animated series.
1. Yes, in my mind at least, if not necessarily quite yet in his (as of 1996). He pursued Angela because that seemed like the thing to do. And because I don't think he's completely come to terms with his sexuality yet.
2. I wasn't trying to hint at anything. Some things just are. As for when I knew... it was definitely back when I was at Disney, so sometime in '95 or '96.
I had a question about Lexington's wings that I use to think about. When Lexington glides, it looks like he has to always hold out his arms. I would think his arms would get tired after a while. The other Gargoyles can move their arms while they glide, but it looks like Lexington can't. Also, not many Gargoyles have wings like that huh? The only other Gargoyle I saw with wings like that is in the first Awakening episode, and there were only a couple of scenes with him in it. (Maybe he's Lexington's biological father?) I was just wondering how come there weren't any more Gargoyles in the series with wings like Lexington's. Maybe some of the Gargoyles Goliath met in the Avalon World Tour could of had wings like that. I mean those kind of wings aren't my favorite, but I think having lots of different looking Gargoyles is cool. And there aren't many Gargoyles with wings like Lexington's. But the other kind of wings, like the kind the rest of the clan has, and my favorite. I just think it looks cooler, and they can cap their wings over their shoulders, which I also think is really cool looking. Thanks for reading this Greg, and I would like to hear what you think about this.
I don't have much to add. We wanted a diverse-looking group. I originally wanted Lex to have four hands -- you can see that in the original development artwork on the original pitch if you buy the DVD -- but I was told by Japan & Frank that it would be too difficult to animate day in and day out.
I think of Lex's wing-type as a minority wing-type. But as you pointed out, a type that we've shown at least on one other garg.
As for whether his arms get tired? Well, maybe they do occasionally. Take a look at "Awakening" again.
If Lex is a homosexual gargoyle, why would he bother with Angela in the first place? Well yes, he gave up easily but why even try
It is, as I understand it, not unusual for homosexuals to attempt to fit into the societal norm. (Note, I say "societal norm". I'm not making a value judgment or a biological judgment.)
Can Lexington fold his wings? i saw it on an episode......?
Was that a goof or what?
Lex's wings fold naturally depending on the position of his arms.
Does Lexington have a mate?
As of when?