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Jim R. writes...
How advanced were gargoyles living during the pre-historical age? For example, when cavemen started controlling fire and figuring out that round wheels were better than square ones; what was the evolutionary stage of typical gargoyles living anywhere on the planet at that time?
Greg responds...
Did cavemen ever really use square wheels?
Gargoyles may not have used fire and tools as much because they had less use for those things.
matt writes...
i'd just like to make a comment about gargoyles kissing. i think that stroking the brow ridges or hair is an extremely intelligent and important things in the garg series. first of all, it gives them some culture very different from humans and second, given that many gargs have beaks kissing becomes kinda hard to do. i'm surprised that Broadway and Angela kiss but i understand Greg's explanation that this is because of human influences on these two. good job, Greg, these subtle differences between humans and gargs really gives depth to the show!
Greg responds...
Thanks.
matt writes...
i have a question about gargoyle customs. you've said that Opheila is Gabriel's second in command and for a time, Demona was Goliath's second, is it common among gargs to choose their mate as second? if so, isn't that unfair to the other gargs hoping to become second, or am i thinking too much like a human?
Greg responds...
You're generally thinking too much like a human.
The bigger issue over time is age. A second should be in a position to be groomed to take over for his leader, either in case of an emergency (as when Brooklyn took over for Goliath during the World Tour) or in the case of succession, as when the older Hudson stepped down in favor of the younger Goliath.
Had things gone differently at Wyvern, eventually either Demona would have stepped down to allow a new second to be chosen from the younger generation (most likely Brooklyn) OR Goliath would have stepped aside to allow Demona to lead and chose a new younger Second (again, most likely Brooklyn).
It's largely a meritocracy otherwise. Hudson chose Goliath as his second based on a myriad of positive qualities but primarily integrity, intelligence, natural leadership abilities and a genuine ferocity in battle.
Goliath in turn selected Demona for the same qualities. *He was just mistaken about the integrity.*
As for Avalon, the situation is a bit different, as all the gargs there are of the same generation. Originally Gabriel was chosen as leader and one of his many rookery-siblings Angela was chosen as his second. When Angela left, Gabriel did select his mate as his second, at least for the time being. But you can bet Ophelia was qualified -- look how she performed even when wounded in Avalon Part Three -- or he would not have chosen her. Does nepotism play a part. Possibly. But I'd think that the qualities necessary would have to be even more obvious to avoid charges of nepotism.
In London, Una is the leader of the clan. Her second, whom we have not yet met, is of a younger generation and generally runs things at their more rural (or at least suburban) estate.
In Japan, Kai was the leader. Yama, of a younger generation, was his second. After Yama's banishment, Yama's mate Sora was probably chosen as Second (though don't hold me to that). Again Sora's chosen for her attributes and (relative) youth. Someday -- short of a catastrophe taking place -- she will lead the clan in Kai's place.
In Guatemala, Zafiro is the leader. His second is not his mate Obsidiana, but Turquesa, Jade's mate. They are all of the same generation, but they are also the only gargs alive down there at the moment. (Not counting the eggs.)
Yadira - xena_lawless@hotmail.com writes...
Comment:
Shutting off the broadcast, did not make me think that would work in breaking the spell and I thought it foolish of Xanatos to be so sure that it would work. I thought I was going to see a bit of hesitation and uncertainty in Xanatos right before he shuts off the broadcast. It seemed too simple a solution. In many experiences, it's easier to start something, but a bit more complicated to end it.
I did pick up on the fact that Demona recognized and knew the true identity of the person behind the mask when they felt each other's pain, an incident which I found rather interesting and wanted to learn more about it.
I do like Xanatos' line "You want vengeance or a solution." Something a true businessman would say. Put all your personal feelings aside and let's get right down to business , this needs to be fixed right away. That line is totally Xanatos.
Then at the end when Xanatos and Goliath shook hands...I didn't like it. I thought Goliath too forgiving....I mean shaking the hands of a man who's attacked you, paid people to attack you, manipulated you, and evicted you from the only home you've ever known....to shake hands with that man after only one situation where they had to work together and call a truce....for me...it was too soon. I think they should have just nodded to each other
when they parted...letting the other know that they appreciated the other's help, but I still don't trust you. Sometimes I don't blame Demona for being so upset at Goliath and calling him a fool....because sometimes he's too trusting and forgiving....but then again that's why I love him.
Thanks again, Greg, for helping to create a fascinating
series which I will continue to watch on tape and adore.
Greg responds...
You're welcome.
But shaking hands is literally a symbol of truce in medieval times. Goliath's time. It shows that you're not carrying weapons. Notice they didn't grasp forearms, which is how Goliath greets his friends. They shook hands. A symbol of their deal. A display of non-aggression.
Whether or not you think Goliath's too trusting and forgiving, I don't see this as an example of that.
gedoena writes...
Greg,
[ Gargoyle Science Question: ]
This probably looks a little silly, but I was just rereading my last posting and decided to reverse my thoughts on the matter.
Because gargoyles mate for life, it is probably very important to them to have someone fill that role in their lives. In an isolated clan with an unequal number of each sex for one generation, there would be very little hope of finding a mate for some of the clan members. With no possibility of mating with the equivalent of a widow, this would doom the "left-over" clan members to a lonely life, with a great gap to fill. Would this feeling cause them to bond to one-another?
This explaination is probably much less romantic then the one you would give, but I feel that there must be something in the biology and culture of a species that will at least allow for any given behavior to exist (just as you said that you did not think gargoyles would be found with a particular pashion or talent for architecture, as this was not an area where their talents were likely to be useful).
I guess this was much more of a ramble then a question. But again I would be very interested in hearing your response.
Thanks,
Gedoena
Greg responds...
Did I say that about architecture? Is that an exact quote?
See my previous response for my explanation.
Gedoena writes...
Greg,
[ Gargoyle Science Question: ]
I have been reading through the archives lately, and was surprised to see that you believe that there would be homosexual relationships between gargoyles. This is not because of any personal moral problems; I was just wondering about the background of it within this species.
According to your other posts, gargoyles mate for life, and are driven by biological urges tied to certain scents peculiar to their mates. I would assume that even though each gargoyle has a particular scent, females' scents would be much more similar to eachother then to the scent of any male (and vice-versa). Therefore, I don't understand how two members of the same gender would become attracted to one another.
Furthermore, gargoyles only mate once every 20 years, and only lay one egg at a time. Being a warrior race, there is a probably a fair likelihood that at least one of the parents has died before more then one or two eggs have been laid, making it hard to keep up a sustainable population. It would seem that it would be of great import to the clan to have as many mated pairs as possible.
I guess this was more of a comment then a question, but I would very much like to hear your response to these thoughts.
Thanks,
Gedoena.
Greg responds...
I think your logic is flawed. Not that I'm a biologist. But taking humans as an example, it seems to me that there are plenty of people who are biologically geared to being homosexual (scents and all). In the nature/nurture argument, I think nurture has very little to do with it, save adding a sense of repression, generally.
I mean if it ain't biology, it's reincarnation or something.
So if that's the case with humans, why wouldn't it be the case with gargoyles. I've even read about homosexual ducks.
As to your "Furthermore", keep in mind that gargoyle mates have sexual relations as often as they are in the mood. Females are only fertile every twenty years. That doesn't define their sex drives. Or the males'. And yes, I do think there would be a cultural imperative toward mating pairs. But maybe the cultural imperative to find a soulmate for life would be even stronger.
Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...
A recent comment on the final scene in Hunter's Moon III brought a question to mind. Being typically human I had not realized Goliath putting Elisa's hair behind her hair was an equivilent to kissing- I just saw it as an intimate gesture. Is Elisa conscious of the meaning of stroking hair to to gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Not fully, but she did read it as an intimate gesture, as you did.
Todd Jensen writes...
When Elisa dies, would Goliath and his clan be likely to give her a Wind Ceremony for her funeral? Although she's human, she is a member of the clan.
(This is something that I've been wondering for some time, actually, but I hesitated for a long while for submitting it in case it appeared as an idea. I certainly didn't intend it to be one, at any rate - more just wondering about the bearing that a gargoyle custom you'd recently described might have on Elisa's membership in the clan).
Greg responds...
Yes. The clan would definitely give Elisa a wind ceremony. I'm not saying who would still be around by the time she dies, but whoever is, they would.
(The Guppi) writes...
Given gargoyle customs of demonstrating affection, what are their attitudes about baldness?
Greg responds...
Stroking horns, bumps and ridges work the same as hair for demonstrating intimacy and affection.
Baldness is not socially stigmatized. Though I suppose individual gargs might have personal preferences for or against.
Vilija writes...
Hi Greg! Happy Christmas! My question this time's on Christmas presents.
What does Goliath want for Chirtmas this year?
(Does he celebrate Christmas? If not, what does he and other gargs celebrate? Winter Solistce?)
How about Demona? (Santa knows she's been naughty, though.)
What'd Elisa like this year?
Thank you, .... Wait! Today's winter solistce! Have a good one. (and a good holiday.)
P.S. What're you wishing for this year?
Greg responds...
I'd lean more toward Solstice than Christmas. And I don't think Goliath is very interested in material possessions.
Demona wants the same old thing. A human-free earth, and all the power, with no guilt.
Elisa -- I think she'd like a quiet night at home with Goliath.
And me? Well, I wanted the video to Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And I got it. YEAH!
The Sojourner writes...
Why did you make it so that gargoyles do not traditionally name?
Greg responds...
A. We thought it was kinda cool. It made them more culturally unique.
B. It gave us an excuse to have the fun NYC names for most of the characters, which set Goliath and Demona apart more.
zakhur writes...
When gargoyles have a rookery, do they have always someone protecting them, or are they just left in a hiden place and left alone?
Greg responds...
Generally, they try not to be laissez-faire about that anymore.
Demona Taina writes...
Dear Greg:
If the gargoyles' equivalent of kissing is stroking each other's hair, then was Goliath "kissing" Elisa when he tucked her hair behind her ear in "Hunter's Moon III"?
It appears to be so, judging by the look on his face and the soft tone of his voice. He seemed to be expressing his love to her, I suppose, by caressing her hair and lightly touching her cheek. Then Elisa, being a human, jumped and kissed him instead, being the humans' way to express love for someone else.
Well, is this true, or am I totally off? :P
Thank you for your time. :)
Greg responds...
You are right on the money.
Lawrence Stone writes...
Hey greg I was the one awhile back that asked if clans would accept homosxual garoyles with open arms. Anyway sense I posted that a few months ago I saw a few other people posted quistions about homosexual gargoyes as well and you said said that there are Gay/Lesbian gargoyles, but I have not seen it labled in the already answerd archives. Why is that?
Greg responds...
"labeled"?
I'm not sure what you mean.
DrFaust writes...
Since the naming custom was taken up, are gargoyles given names, or do they choose their own?
Greg responds...
case by case
Aris Katsaris writes...
This question (or one similar to it) was also asked in that adult Gargoyles chat of a couple months ago but I notice it was overlooked...
Do you feel that clothes is yet another custom (like names) that the Gargoyles species adopted from humans? (and probably for the sake of humans) With both their tougher skins and their better resistance against temperature extremes, gargoyles would seem to have less actual need for clothes. And the tidbit you've given us about Caesar Augustus seems to imply that it's again the humans who have a greater sense of "decency" related to clothes and nudity.
So... did gargoyles wear clothing before they started interacting with humanity?
If no, at what period of time do you feel the Wyvern clan started wearing clothes? 971? Decades before 971? Centuries before? Prehistorical times? etc...
Greg responds...
They might have. For example, modesty aside, I'm generally more comfortable wearing underwear (briefs) unless I'm asleep. I know my wife prefers to wear a bra if she's doing anything active.
If the above seems cryptic, I'm trying to be discreet, but it's an issue of, shall we say, "swingage".
Having said that, I'm sure modesty and humanity played a roll. Codified things, etc.
I certainly think humans have more uptight rules about this kind of stuff than gargs generally do.
matt writes...
i was a bit surprised that every clan that goliath and co met had started using names. have these clans abandoned other garg customs to such as the rookery children thing?
Greg responds...
No. Names are addictive, however.
warrioress writes...
Can Gargoyles be vegetarians? In the Dark Ages did the Gargs hunt their own food or depend on humans to supply it?
Greg responds...
Mostly hunted their own.
As for vegetarianism, anything's possible.
Aris Katsaris writes...
At what age do you feel that gargoyles learn to glide?
Will Tachi (aged six) know how to glide when she timedances into the present, or will it be something she'll learn during the course of the series?
Greg responds...
She'll have started learning. I don't know that she'd have mastered it under all conditions. But she'd be doing a bit of it.
matt writes...
in "turf" elisa tells angela that the boys haven't been around an attractive female garg in a thousand years. how does elisa know that angela is attractive by gargoyle standards? is demona also considered an attractive garg? is opheila?
Greg responds...
How do I know? How do you?
But yes, I'd say everyone you named is attractive by garg standards.
Wingedbeast writes...
Do the gargoyles have any kind of religion in their own culture?
If so, can you tell anything about their religion without giving anything about future plans away?
Greg responds...
Check the Gargoyle Customs Archive here at ASK GREG. And if you've got further questions after reading that, come back and ask.
Sapphire writes...
Would any Gargoyles and New Olympians take up human vices in the future like smoking and drinking?
Greg responds...
It's possible.
LSZ writes...
Have gargoyles ever converted to human religions in the past?
Greg responds...
Maybe, once or twice.
Siren writes...
I had asked whether gargoyles voted before...To be more specific.
Say a gargoyle leader chooses a second-in-command, the leader dies and the new leader is corrupt and so on. And the clan despises him. Could they knock him down a few blocks so to say? Could they be like a pride of lions where as someone comes forward to fight for leadership? Or would it be more like impeachment or banishment when the whole clan votes to kick him/her out and/or vote for a new leader?
Greg responds...
I suppose they'd boot him if it was necessary. But this doesn't sound likely.
Osboy writes...
If Gargoyles traditionally do not give themselves names, (as Goliath's Clan made clear in The first five episodes) how is it that all of the other isolated clans around the world have names, when Goliath stumbles upon them in the world tour?
Greg responds...
A lot of time has passed.
Skylar writes...
1) Please tell us how to practice a Wind Ceremony (didn´t find a detailed description what it is about in the archives)
If your first answer doesn´t contain it:
1a) What does a Gargoyle do the moment or the first minutes after a fellow died? Is there a special rite?
1b) What do they do with the dead body? Burying? Burning?
1c) At wich point of time starts the so called "Wind Ceremony"?
2) Are there any other special gargoyle rites or ceremonys you would tell us about?
Greg responds...
1. Then you weren't looking very hard. Did you check "Gargoyle Customs". That's as detailed a description as I can give right now.
1a. Nothing immediate. Nothing Klingon.
1b. Depends. Check out the archives.
1c. Huh?
2. Sure.
Sapphire writes...
Do Gargoyles like being called animals?
Greg responds...
Do you?
KW Keller writes...
Gargoyle questions:
1. About what point in time did the London clan start using names?
2. About what point in time did the Ishimura clan start using names?
3. Do all the clans still in existance use names now?
Greg responds...
1. Don't know yet.
2. Don't know yet, but they had them by the time Brooklyn LEFT.
3. No.
SEM writes...
The 2198 contest, plus some posts I've read recently, leads me to try and ask the following question about names: since gargoyles were not initially named, and seem to have let humans name them or be involved in the naming process, will this be the case with future hatchlings?
Any more detail on this question and I fear it'll look like an idea, so I hope it is clear. Since it is a future-looking question, I also respect if you choose to pass on it.
Greg responds...
Gargoyles will be more involved in their names and naming from this point on. But each case is case specific, so it's hard to generalize.
Siren writes...
Do gargoyles celebrate birthdays? Christmas? And I know they did in Eye of the Beholder, but before then, Halloween?
Greg responds...
Hatchdays are big and communal. Christmas isn't. Halloween is now fun for them.
Siren writes...
Can gargoyles vote? If so, who do you think they'd choose?
Greg responds...
You mean for Gargoyle Leader?
Skylar writes...
Hi Greg!
Again it´s September the 28th, and I´m glad to see that you really answered all the questions that had waited, so that you can read it at the right time now *g* :
CONGRATULATIONS! Happy Birthday :))
- Cause there´s now a short waiting time, I´ll ask the Questionblock I have still waiting from the ones I ever wanted to send: The one about names.
I have allways been interested in the naming of Gargoyles during the Show.
In Scottland in the Dark Ages the Gargoyles didn´t have any names at all except of Goliath, who was named by a human after an historical figur and Demona, who was later named Demona by another human (McBeth).
When the Gargoyles who had survived came into the 20th Century, they gave names to each other like Citys and things like this.
In the 20th Century all Gargoyles seem to have names: The "Eggs" from the bible (given by humans), the Guatemala-Gargoyles by their precious stones, the Japan-Gargoyles seem to have normal japan names and the English Gargoyles.. - well, later to them..
So here my questions:
1a) Is it a kind of tradition that Gargoyles don´t have (or had) names, so that some older Gargoyles could be annoyed to hear that a gargoyle wants to give himself a name and break the tradition?
1b) Or was giving names in the Gargoyle culture just not known or not usual, but they all have no problems at all with taking a name that a human gives to them?
2) In the 20th Century all (or most) Gargoyles seem to have names, so is this "tradition" (although it might be not a traditon in this sense) something that got lost during the centurys, or has it allways just existed in Scotland?
2b)Do really all gargoyles have names in the 20th Century or not all of them?
2c)Why?
2d)In with way do they get their names? By humans? By the clan? By a kind of rite? By themself? Just by coincidence? Or is there no strikt rule? (Or maybe regional differences??)
3) We are shown three english Gargoyles - Una (unicorn), Griff (griffon) and so on. So have all english Gargoyles a name that sounds similar to their looking? (I guess the variation possibilities of names that sound like "lion", "unicorn" or "griffon" are very rare), or is it an exeption and the other english gargoyles have other kind of names?
3a)If so, what kind of names do they have? Quite normal names like "Jim" or "Bob" or something like that? Or do they prefer very odd and unusal names you would rare find at a human? Or perhaps never find at a human? Or names in a completely different way?
- Maybe the questions may sound a bit strange.. - Of course there are no strikt rules in giving names (and of course not one for all over the world and time), but maybe you can give me a few hints of what´s going on.
Greg responds...
1a. It's a fairly dated and old-fashioned tradition. Goliath is surprised (briefly) that Angela, et al. have been named, but he's really a tenth century gargoyle. Few modern gargoyles maintain that tradition.
b. Names are addictive.
2. Yes.
2b. I don't know about ALL.
2c. Why what?
2d. There's no strict rule.
3. We'll just half to see. But at this point some of these names may be a tradition in and of themselves.
3a. I tried to avoid giving them "normal" names.
J.K. writes...
Hi Greg!
Here's my questions: how do gargs behave during the female's season? You did suggest in the archives that the female gives off a scent, so does this scent affect a male, and if so, how? (needn't get too detailed, heh.)Is there aggression on the part of either gender? I somehow doubt clan males would fight, but maybe some generic shoulder shoving and bullying type behavior? Is there a ritual of sorts? Fanfic authors have some often alarming ideas of season behavior, and I wanted to know the real deal:)
Greg responds...
No shoving. Keep in mind, gargoyles mate for life. By the time a female is fertile, she's generally already chosen a mate. And the scents are VERY specific.
Danielle writes...
How do the gargoyles take care of the clans children.
Greg responds...
Carefully?
What do you mean?
Punchinello writes...
As long as I'm up and asking questions...
Do the Gargoyles have an architecture that is particular to their culture?
I realize that question may appear to be a bit odd. I'm also sure that no one else would possibly care, but I am preoccupied with architectural ideas.
I know that we never observed any of them manufacturing barrel vaults or drawing plans, but we do knowt hat their culture contained it's own artifacts. They wore clothing. Occasionally we would see a strange shoulder gaurd or some piece of jewlery. Who made them?
I am entertaining images gargoyles who were the blacksmiths of their clan, forging swords and mace. Might the wyvern clan have contained a master builder who constructed catapults? Maybe who aided in designing the castle, lending a gargoyles more sophisticated sensibility for defense to the design of it's walls?
Did the clan have it's own artists? Musicians? Mathematicians? astronomers?
I'd be perfectly satisfied with an answer to the architect part.
Punchinello
Greg responds...
Lex demonstrates that Gargoyles can have special talents. But I don't see architecture as a major function of anyone in the Wyvern Clan. However, that doesn't mean Hudson might not have made some common sense suggestions, when the castle was being designed.
Lawrence writes...
Greg, I'm the one who asked if a Clan would treat a Homosexual Gargoyle good and with open arm's. Anyway thanks for answering my qusiton!
But just one more thing about it and the last one I promise, Sense by 2158 or what ever the new year my be you said that Gargoyles would be consider a Minority, but a Homosexual Garrolye would be a minoriy with in a minority group, That would be hard on that gargoyle seeing people see their spices like trash and some people looking down at them cause of there sexuailty.
The reason I ask this is cause I'm Gay myself.
Thanks
Greg responds...
I think it's very difficult. ("species" not "spices", right?)
I'm not Gay, so I don't know what it's like exactly, and I won't say the cliched, "Some of my best friends are gay." thing.
Rather, let me say that almost ALL of my closest friends (and a few relatives) are gay or lesbian. Don't know why. Just worked out that way.
Anytime someone is a minority within a minority it is incredibly difficult for that person. That much is obvious with clear-sighted observation. It's a damn shame, but it's true.
Clarification...
Someone asked me whether or not gargoyles would accept a homosexual gargoyle into the clan with open arms.
My response:
"The world isn't perfect. I think generally they would be tolerant. (Tolerant, in my book, is unsatisfactory.) But generalities do not
define individual reactions to individual revelations. Open arms would exist in many cases. "
My brother read that and wrote:
"I think writing "Tolerant is unsatisfactory"could be interpreted as you saying that they should not be tolerant, that you are against
tolerance rather than tolerance being insufficient."
So, just to be clear, I was saying that I find tolerance insufficient. Certainly, tolerance is better than hostility or neutrality, but I'd prefer acceptance.
Lawrence writes...
How would a Clan treat a Gay/Lesbain Garoyle? Hopefully with open arms
Greg responds...
The world isn't perfect. I think generally they would be tolerant. (Tolerant, in my book, is unsatisfactory.) But generalities do not define individual reactions to individual revelations. Open arms would exist in many cases.
Gabriel writes...
Dear Greg,
When a gargoyle died in the dark ages, what sort of funeral ceremony was contucted, if any? I doubt they kept the dead statues, but I could be wrong. Anyways, I need to know for a fanfic that I am writing; I would not like to get it wrong.
Thanks.
Greg responds...
Gabriel,
Did you try looking under "Gargoyle Customs" in the ASK GREG Archive?
(I'm guessing no.)
If you check there, you'll find a couple posts on "The Wind Ceremony". If you still have questions after reading those posts, come on back and I'll try to answer them.
Lexy writes...
And finally...
1) Are those females you listed laying their eggs in Man. and then leaving them there for 10 years? Or will they 'join' the clan for that amount of time?
2) Why did _any_ of the females (for that matter) decide to go THERE to lay their eggs? I suppose I can understand the Guatemalan..(sp?) Gargs doing so..and maybe Sora..but why would anyone need to leave Avalon?
Greg responds...
1. You misread it. I never said they were all laying eggs in Manhattan. I said they were all laying eggs in 2008.
2. See above.
dj writes...
In the original wyvern clan didd you knoww who lex's mother would be
Greg responds...
Lex had a lot of mothers. Quit thinking like a human.
Maria writes...
You had mentioned that gargoyles don't generally kiss. They use a caress which in some ways for them mimics the kiss. But, considering the fact that Elisa surprised him by kissing him, what would be his reaction later? Would he ask questions about it and she would explain that she kissed him because she loved him? And, would he become curious enough to try kissing her? Would he enjoy it?
I can almost envision a silly face showing that he liked it, kind of like in the scene in Tarzan where Jane kisses an unsuspecting Tarzan. But then, that might not even happen. But it might be cute and inoccent if it did.
Anyway, thanks before hand for replying, and my apologies for some of my earlier more stupid posts. Just curious about that stuff mostly, I guess.
Greg responds...
By the time Elisa kissed him, Goliath had witnessed plenty of kisses. He knows what it means. And after trying it, I'd guess he liked it. If the right person kisses him. Which she did.
Todd Jensen writes...
I recently watched my tape of "Upgrade", and that prompted a fresh question on my part. In this episode, Goliath finally fills the SIC position, left vacant ever since Demona parted ways from the clan in "Awakening". What interested me was that Goliath took so long to finally think about appointing a second-in-command. "Upgrade" is 25 episodes after "Awakening Part Five", and in terms of the series' internal chronology, probably over a year later, but only now does Goliath finally get around to start looking for somebody to fill the second-in-command slot, after Hudson tells him that he needs a designated successor in case some enemy of the clan does kill or permanently incapacitate him.
So why did Goliath take so long to start looking for a new SIC? Was it anything to do with the fact that Demona had been the last one?
Greg responds...
Not really. Mostly, I don't think that anyone was qualified at first. Brooklyn emerged as a leader. He didn't start out as one.
I think Goliath was de facto counting on Hudson to be his second.
Gencie Salter writes...
Hi Greg.
1. Any idea where gargoyle civilizations started? Like, human civilizations started in Mesopotamia, Indus River Valley.?
2. Were there always gargoyle clans all over the world or did they migrate from wherever they started?
Greg responds...
1. Clans and civilizations don't have that kind of parallelism.
2. There must have been some migration.
LSZ writes...
Did humans ever worship gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Not much.
LSZ writes...
Did gargoyles ever worship fae as gods?
Greg responds...
Not really.
LSZ writes...
Were any of the Ishimuran Gargoyles converted to Buddhism or incorporate any parts of it into their religion(since Japanese Zen Buddhism seems particularly compatible..)?
Greg responds...
Maybe. Or maybe it was the other way around.
LSZ writes...
Do all gargoyles have the same mono-pantheistic religion?
Greg responds...
ALL of them? Probably not.
Demona Taina writes...
Here's a question that got lost in the crash. I posted it a LONG time ago, and I just realized that it got lost. o_O I think I posted it in May. [looks at the date] Yep. It's been a long time. :P
Okay, as I said in my previous post, my native language is Spanish, English is my second, and stuff like that. Well, first, I became a fan with the Spanish episodes first. I mean, sure, I loved the English episodes, but didn't have cable long enough to actually start taping them. [grumbles] At least the translations came along. Well, everything is different in Spanish. Goliath's voice is much less like Keith David's. I think it's done by Felipe Preciado, but I wouldn't bet on that. [laughs] Much less dramatic, let me tell you. It simply can't compare with Keith David's. His is SO dramatic, so powerful, and yet, so beautiful. [giggles]
I fell in LOVE with a cartoon character.. I mean, Goliath is SO perfect! Except for that temper, but I love him anyway! You probably found out about my love for him when you read my ramble on Goliath.. [giggles] And every word I said is true... ;)
Oops, I forgot about the question. o_O Anyway, here it goes before I forget and start talking about something else. :P
Okay, I taped the episodes in both Spanish and English, but I taped them in Spanish first. City of Stone 1 was the first I'm sure, because Demona started crying, and I totally got hooked with that scene.. it was so powerful.
Okay, so, I have the episode "Vows" in Spanish. In Spanish, it has Goliath and Demona in the Clock Tower, and they HUG. Awww... well, then my grandma got Cable again. The English episodes. USA Network. I was disappointed when I noticed that they cut out the best scenes, but at least the voices were new. I mean, they totally cut out the Keith David's narration!! I've never been able to actually see that narration in English.. [grumbles]
ANYWAY.. they aired the episodes Vows in English. Okay. so, everything seemed normal, except for the cuts, until they aired the ending. o_O It was different!! Instead of the couple being at the Clock Tower, they were in a castle! With a very bright light behind them! Well, I was beaming with joy because there was something new.
And then, Demona is left with her mouth open. I go O.O. Goliath SMILES, capes his wings around her, and brings her close. I'm like "DO IT! DO IT!" And they're about to kiss, but then they disappear into a star. [whimpers] WHY!? They were THIS close! WHY? WHY? WHY!? That was so cruel. [laughs] I wanted to see them kiss at least once. :P
Now let me put all that in a sentence. [laughs] Why are there two endings of the episode Vows? No other episode has two endings, to my knowledge anyway. [blinks, then pokes you] Are there anymore alternate endings?
You guys have done a GREAT job with the show. And you're a great guy, too. [grins] And you're cute. [snickers] Couldn't RESIST. [laughing]
That's all for now. :P
Greg responds...
Kissing is a human custom. Gargoyles stroke hair and or brow ridges.
There are two endings because one was a mistake that we couldn't get corrected in time for its first airing. That scene was supposed to be a flashback to them embracing at the castle. Instead it mistakenly has them embracing at the clock tower, which they've never done.
Karen writes...
Do the gargoyles, as a race, have any sort of myths/legends dealing with their own kind? We know that they have no language of their own (at least I *think* we know that) and learned writing and reading from humans, but human traditions with no written language still have oral stories/traditions passed down from generation to generation, stories told around the campfire to children of heroes. Do the gargs have any stories like this? Any legendary heroes, ie King Arthur calibre, of their own?
Greg responds...
Yes.
steven s (repost by Aris) writes...
Just watched "the edge" .In the scene when the gargs are fighting the steel clan, goliath says to brooklyn "No doubt for us to lead them back to our new sanctuary" meaning xanatos wants to find out where the Gargoyles live.
But at the end of the episode, when the gargs turn to stone they are outside on top of the clock tower. Don't u think that would be a easy place for xanatos to find the gargs? seeing as they would be visible from say a chopper?
I think it would be a lot safer if the gargs turned to stone indoors.
thanks in advance.Keep up the episode reviews, i enjoy reading your opinions on them.
Greg responds...
We felt the Gargs being on the ledge was a classic example of them hiding in plain sight. (Compare Poe's "The Purloined Letter".) I don't think Xanatos was checking every building in town. I don't think, frankly, it occured to him that they'd be quite that easy to find.
Still, largely the gargs were still operating out of a custom that wasn't designed to safeguard them even back in the tenth century. It might not have been wise, but it was their WAY.
Demona (repost by Aris) writes...
How come in the show you never showed Goliath and Demona kissing? You showed Coldstone and Desdemona kissing, and other characters, but never Demona and Goliath. I mean, you never even showed it in any flashbacks. Thanks, Greg!!
Greg responds...
Kissing is a human trait. Goliath and Demona didn't kiss in flashbacks because it was a custom they did not share. The gargoyle equivalent is to stroke the hair and/or horns/ridges of one's mate.
Angela & Broadway kissed because each had "endured" a lot of human influence. Broadway through pop culture (movies, tv, etc.) and Angela because she had been raised by the human couple Katharine and Tom (who did kiss).
Goliath stroked Elisa's hair more than once. But he never kissed her. She kissed him.
I don't recall Coldstone and Desdemona kissing. If that really happened then the truth is it's a mistake. Or one could say that they were experimenting, copying some humans that they saw kissing in the castle.
Charles writes...
Okay, I have a question regarding being rookery siblings and lifemates. Gargoyles consider all the other gargoyles that hatch with them to be siblings. From what I understand, from among this group a gargoyle will also be expected to take a lifemate. Now, you can proably see where i'm heading. This kind of relationship sometimes strikes me as almost incestual, b/c a gargoyle will, for all intents and purposes, develop romantic and sexual feelings for what used to be his/her sister/brother. The problem is obviouslly avoided in cases such as Broadway and Angela, who didn't have much contact with each other, or between different geneartions of rookery litters, which I guess also applies to Broadway and Angela. What got me to thinking about this is when you denied Angela and Gabriel having feelings for each other b/c they were bros. and sisters and in the same sentence said Gabriel was mated wtih Ophelia, who I understood as also being a Rookery sibling. I guess you could say that i'm thinking too much like a human, which, I confess, is a big problem of mine.
8-)
Anyway, if you would give your interpretation and response to these thoughts of mine, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks so much to you and your fellow workers for creating such a wonderful show.
Greg responds...
Mostly, as you said, you're thinking too much like a human. None of a generations rookery siblings are biologically sister and brother. So the kind of incest taboo that you refer to wouldn't exist between them.
Look, think of it this way. Say you grew up in an orphanage with thirty plus other kids. All the same age. Both sexes. None related to each other. You were all raised together. When you're young and basically immature enough for sex to be a non-factor, all these kids would be like siblings to you. You'd get along better with some than others, but they'd be your de facto brothers and sisters. But as the years pass in this orphanage, as you all start to hit puberty, some of you would start to look at others in a different light. Not everyone. Some of you would maintain a close fraternal relationship. Others you were close to might grow distant. Some you didn't like might evolve into friends. Not brothers and sisters, but friends. And still others would become objects of attraction. But no matter what, you'd still be the thirty plus kids who grew up together in that orphanage. Whatever else happens, you'd always have that with all of them.
Gabriel and Angela don't still treat each other as brother and sister because it was some kind of mandatory result of them being rookery siblings. It's simply how their relationship developed, whereas Gabriel and Ophelia obviously had the hots for each other. Even though at a young age, they were raised in that "orphanage" on Avalon together.
Does that help, human?
TK writes...
Do GArgoyles date or something or are they just draw to someone and then fall in love. Thanks
Greg responds...
I wouldn't call it dating. But there is a courting process. Mating rituals if you will.
Punchinello writes...
Hello Mr. Weisman.
Punchinello, here again, with a new sort of ramble. I intend to pose this to you in the hopes that it will elicit comment from you, even though it is not a proper question.
I was thinking, recently, about darwinian evolution and the phenomenon of infanticide. A few popular authors like Richard Dawkins and Steven Pinker have made the idea that infanticide functions towards a selective advantage in the evolution of many species somewhat popular in the last couple of years. It can be observed among lions, killing the offspring of male rivals. In this way, nature can ensure that the lion is not investing his energy in protection of young that will not advance his genetic lineage. At the same time, I had been thinking of some of the more unusual features of your gargoyles. In particular, the extrordinarily robust array of physical forms. Polymorphisms within their species are more exaggerated than any species possesses in real life, to the point where we can observe within the same species, the variety of forms represented by the trio, as well as Zafiro, Una, etc. I had been considering the idea that their diversity may be due to the possibility that they are not subject to the rules imposed by natural selection through predation. (At least among their own species. I imagine that they can still be preyed upon by other animals. I think you even demonstrated this, although the animals capable of doing them harm are almost certainly few.)
It would seem that this idea finds conjunction with other aspects of the nature of the gargoyles. They raise their young collectively, and do not even distinguish between their own offspring and the offspring of other gargoyles. This would seem to run in direct contradiction to the way natural selection, selects lineages for propagation. The strong gargoyles invest as much energy in raising the young of the weaker gargoyles as they do in raising their own young. This is interesting on several levels. First, it implicates the gargoyles as a species that are subject to their own branch of nature; something which exists, at least in part, outside of natural selection as we know it. It could also account for that remarkable polymorphism of theirs. It occurs to me that all other species look essentially like one another because certain genes have been selected to be passed down to succeeding generations. The parents that successfully raise their offspring. Among the gargoyles, you observe a different side of nature, wherein, the strong and the weak intermix, and have been passing down all of their selective adaptations and physical attributes since the origin of the species. There is not any competitive pressure within the species to selectively eliminate those features and regulate their form. As a result, you get this wild assortment of horns, tails, beaks, muzzles, etc.
It finds even further relevence, in the "protective" nature of the gargoyles. It would make sense that a species with an inclination to protect the weak would be subject to the alternate "rules of evolution" I am considering here. Contrary to conventional evolution, they are completely non-discriminatory. The gargoyles and gargate beasts seem to be integrated into a single community, and they both integrate themselves into the various communites of humans, forming a cooperative (hopefully) relationship. I wonder if other clans, such as the Guatemalan's, do not form cooperative relationships with other species due to their integration into the wilderness and proximity to wildlife.
Greg responds...
Wow, very cool ideas there. I agree whole-heartedly with your assessments.
And even the Guatemalan Gargs once lived in peace with their human Mayan "brothers". So they fit too if you look at the LONG haul.
Evolution has always fascinated me a bit. Look at the whale. The whale didn't evolve directly from a fish. Fish became amphibians which eventually became reptiles which eventually became mammals which eventually looked like lemurs or something, which eventually evolved into something that returned to the water and eventually evolved into a big old WHALE that resembles a fish more than it resembles us, though of course we're much closer genetically to a whale than either the whale or we are to a fish. Their are a lot of routes to any end.
Faieq writes...
I just read your ramble on the Wind Ceremony. I think it sounds beautiful, how they glide over the ashes so that the dead stays with them. Any way I have a question about the ceremony. Does the place where the the cremation or pulverising takes place have to be a natural place such as a hill or could it take place on a skyscraper such as the Eyrie building?
Greg responds...
It could theoretically be anywhere.
Blaise writes...
I like your ramble on the Wind Ceremony. It sounds quite beautiful. It also feels extremely relevant to me because as of this writing it's been nearly 3 weeks since the death of my aunt. Her own ashes were scattered from a tackle-box into a river--she always loved fishing.
Probably a silly question, but would you have shown the Wind Ceremony in the series?
Greg responds...
Yes. Eventually. But I wasn't in a hurry to kill anyone off.
Condolences on your loss. A cousin of mine died last Friday. He was 43 years old and had a massive heart attack while swimming in a pool with his seven year old son. His own mother dived into the pool to pull him out, but he was already gone. I'm going to the funeral tomorrow. I'm not expecting a Wind Ceremony though.
(I'm not sure why I wrote that.)
Todd Jensen writes...
Thanks for the Wind Ceremony ramble, Greg. It struck me as another fine example of one of the best qualities of "Gargoyles" (in my opinion): the care that went into creating the gargoyles as an actual race with their own customs and way of life.
Greg responds...
Thanks. I've had the Wind Ceremony in my head for awhile. Finally it yelled at me that it was time to come out. Glad you liked it.
Nyrtleka writes...
It seems that naming is not a gargoyle custom. Yet the other clans in the World Tour (London, Ishimura, Guatemala) have names. My question is how did Griff and Una and Leo get their name?
Greg responds...
The more gargs live with and interact with humans, the more likely they are to have names. Thanks to their Soho store, the London clan has been interacting with humans for centuries.
Basillisk writes...
Are Goliath and Coldstone biological brothers or just rookery brothers?
Greg responds...
Rookery brothers.
There are never any biological brothers of the same generation. Cousins, sure. Brothers and sisters, never.
Todd Jensen writes...
One final "Re-Awakening"-related post. One thing that bothered me a bit about the episode is Coldstone's "Dawn came, and then oblivion" line. The reason why I find it troubling is that the "oblivion" part almost suggests that gargoyles don't have an afterlife, which I find disquieting. Admittedly, Coldstone's situation is a near-unique one, but still, the implications.... What are your thoughts on this one?
Greg responds...
What happened, and what he remembers may be two different things. But I also had the Wind Ceremony in mind. See my notes on that.
butterfly writes...
i really like the trio and i was just wondering are they brothers or just rookery brothers. and do they know who their parents were?
Greg responds...
Rookery brothers. And the whole clan (of generations OLDER than Goliath's) were their Rookery parents.
Anonymous writes...
In Gargoyles Goliath and co live in the highest buildings like angels while the clones and mutates live in the deepest parts of the city like demons and devils.Did you do this on purpose? If so why?
Greg responds...
Not in the way you're suggesting.
Though I suppose one could say that the mutates bought into their outcast status. The gargoyles ignored it. (Or largely.)
Todd Jensen writes...
In your opinion, did Elisa's close friendship with the gargoyles have anything to do with her strong belief in her police duty of protecting her city? As in, sharing the clan's belief of the importance of protection, a sort of "kindred spirits" matter?
Greg responds...
Absolutely. It's all mixed in there. Protect & Serve, right? There's a chicken and the egg element to what brought the Gargoyles (and Goliath specifically) together with Detective Maza. Kindred Spirits. Physical attraction. Emotional connections. And I'm literally willing to throw in the concepts of FATE and DESTINY as well.
Todd Jensen writes...
The thing that most intrigues me about "Gargoyles 2158" is the element of what gargoyle/human relations would be like in that period. In the present day, of course, the big problem for gargoyle/human relations will be that the bulk of humanity believe gargoyles to be simply wild beasts or demons rather than sentient beings, and so hunt them down. But you've indicated that by 2158, gargoyles are now realized to be sentient, have become tolerated (though not altogether accepted), and now have a "Protected Minority" status. With that in mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about life for gargoyles in 2158 (if the answers vary for individual clans, please pick the one that matches life for the Manhattan clan in 2158):
1. In 2158, are gargoyle clans subject to human laws, or are they still self-governing?
2. Do they hold human citizenship, with the rights and duties that come with it (i.e., voting rights, paying taxes, jury duty, etc.)?
3. What sort of relationship in general do the gargoyles have with the police in terms of their patrolling their protectorate? As in, how do the authorities look upon the gargoyles' protection work against criminals, on the whole?
4. Are gargoyle hatchlings still taught by the adult members of the clan, or do they have to go to human schools?
Greg responds...
1. Both.
2. Some of the above, not all.
3. It is sometimes a source of conflict. Though not everywhere.
4. Human schools aren't practical, as most human children go to school during the day.
Kayless writes...
Hey Greg, I have some religious questions for you.
1. Since you are seemingly very well versed in religious doctrine, I'm curious as to how you feel about the Judeo/Christian scriptures that prohibit wizardry. Deuteronomy 18:9-18:12 (Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord) makes it quite clear that God brooks no wizards in his fold. Is there a conflict for you since so much of the myth Gargoyles is based on revolves around magic?
2. What about the uncanny resemblance between gargoyles and demons? Why do the two look so much alike? Did dybbuks manifest themselves in the form of gargoyles in order to sow discord with humanity, hence the current demonic stereotype and poor human/garg relations?
3. How do the Fae feel about the whole God business? They seem a rather worldly lot, though some might be old enough to remember biblical events.
4. Why is Percy still using the grail? The Holy Grail is a sacred artifact, not your run-of-the-mill magical maguffin. Why would it continue to grant its power to Duval, who has since proved unworthy? I know you said it was costing him a high physical price but I find it odd that it should be giving him any kind of benefits at all (Anybody see what happened to the bad guy in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?).
5. Last one. Is the Judeo/Christian God the supreme ruler of the Gargoyle universe? Given the plethora of Gods and Goddess on the show, I'm just wondering what your views on this are (I prefer to think that He's the one in charge, but I had to ask).
Thanks for your time, as always. Now I must return to the Vole Wars…
Greg responds...
1. I'm clearly less "versed" than you seem to think. I won't comment on your citation in a vacuum. And I don't have a bible here in the office to check the context.
When you ask if I'm conflicted, I'm not clear on your question. Are you looking for my opinion on the bible? Personally, I think the bible is an astounding piece of literature with much to teach us. But I see the hands of man all over that book. And although it might lose me some fans, I cannot believe that God authored it. Inspired it maybe, but authored it, no. At any rate, I think many things in the bible are subject to interpretation. Often multiple interpretations.
2. Where do you get the idea that there is ANY resemblance between gargoyles and demons? From Medieval painters? Look, we haven't seen any demons in the series. We haven't seen any demons in the gargoyles universe. No angels either. I'm not saying whether they exist or not. But you're question assumes facts not in evidence.
3. The whole God with a capital G business? Like humans, every Child of Oberon is different. I try not to make monolithic generalizations.
4. Assumes facts not in evidence. A. Who says he's still using the grail? I said he still had it. B. And in any case, your question asked "Why". Why wouldn't he if he could? C. Who said the grail can "grant" power? D. If it can, who said it is? E. Who said Duval has proven unworthy?
And I certainly refuse to use "Last Crusade" as an authority.
I will say that the Grail is part of the reason that Percival and Blanchefleur are still alive. And that a price for that has been paid. But don't oversimplify.
5. As you may know, I'm Jewish. Most of my fellow Jews would not consider me to be religious, though that's something I might argue with. Personally, I believe in God with a captial G. Whether that means he's the Judeo/Christian God seems like a parochial question to me. Almost an elitist question. I also believe that God is REAL BIG on free will. His miracles are many but subtle, and all come with a free scientific explanation -- because if he simply manifested like George Burns on trial, then where's the free will? So why should things be any easier in the Gargoyles Universe. The Gargs believe in a God that is the sum total of all things. They are monotheists and animists all at once. I don't think that's inconsistent with Judeo/Christian beliefs, but I also don't think you're going to see any purely objective evidence on the show, ever. Take to the Gargoyles Universe what you will. And it should, if I'm doing this right, give you something back -- whatever you do, or don't, believe in.
Look, I know it seems like I'm blowing off your questions. I'm not. But try reading them with a fresh eye. They're almost impossible TO answer in a straightforward manner, because they are extremely complex, and yet they take for granted so many things as fact that have not been established either in the cannon or here at ASK GREG. These are all interesting topics and I encourage you to pursue them. But break your questions down. It'll help you avoid making assumptions.
By the way, what's a Vole?
Chris writes...
1)Do Goliath and Demona have any other children besides Angela? And if so, do you mind if I ask who?
2)Since there's no chance of Goliath and Demona ever getting back together, will they ever be friends again, or at least not at each other's throats?
Thanks for your time.
Greg responds...
1. Biological children? No. Rookery children? Yes. The entire Avalon clan, including Gabriel and Ophelia.
2. They will, on occasion, be allies again.
Faieq Ali writes...
This question has been eating away at me for two years. I can't find an answer to it. So I decided to come and ask the man who helped produce the gargoyles themselves.
What happens to the pieces of stone skin that the gargoyles shed at sunset?. Something has to happen to it or else it would pile up on the battlements of the castle or fall on the streets below. In one episode , I can't remember it's name, the stone skin falls on top of a man who was walking under the clocktower. In 'The Price', Hudson escapes with the aid of his stone skin. So what does happen to the stone casing of a gargoyle, do they store it in the basement for some strange use? Do they eat it? Does it get absorbed by the ground? What's the answer, I need to know!!!
Greg responds...
They sweep it up and toss it in the dust bin.
FNA writes...
You said in Dark Ages Demona and Desdemona would be sisters. Do you mean rookery or biological?(It's probably the first but it's worth a try to ask.
Greg responds...
Rookery, of course.
Scientific Addendum to Wind Ceremony
Even in peaceful times, Gargoyles -- even very old gargoyles -- all but never died in their sleep. Sleep for gargoyles is borderline suspended animation. If an old, weary Gargoyle actually made it to daylight and stone, that bit of sleep would tend to freeze the aging process, the deterioration if you will. Rejuvenate the gargoyle even just a little bit. They'd be much more likely to die after the sun went down, after transforming back into flesh. Even before the iron age, when Gargoyles had little to fear from most any species, when turning to stone was an excellent daytime defense and not a liability, most ancient Gargoyles died just before sunrise, after an exhausting night, rather than after the sun had risen.
So again, the disturbing notion of surviving gargoyle mourners having to pulverize a perfectly preserved stone corpse is a veritable non-issue. The practice of reducing stone remains to dust was a result of gargoyles having to come to terms with stone-sleep having become a vulnerability. If you're loved one is already rubble, there isn't much reason to keep the rubble intact. That doesn't mean the process isn't emotionally painful. But not much more painful, I would think, then cremating a corpse of flesh. (Though of course it's more immediate. You are doing the damage, not the Fire.) At any rate, that was the custom that evolved.
The Wind Ceremony
When a gargoyle dies, the disposition of his or her body depends only slightly on whether the gargoyle died during the day or at night.
If at night, the corpse is cremated.
If during the day, the rubble is pulverized.
(The notion of pulverizing the undamaged stone corpse of a gargoyle who has died peacefully in his sleep is disturbing. But in fact, gargoyles so rarely die peacefully in their sleep as to make this a non-issue.)
In either case, the cremated or pulverized remains are taken by the gargoyle mourners to the highest point on the local map. A memorial is held. Everyone who wishes to speak of the departed, may. No one, not even the departed's enemies, may be denied a voice. In the end, the mourners spread the remains upon the wind, saying, "Ashes to ashes OR dust to dust. All is one with the wind." (Over time, humans began to use a variation of the same at their funerals.)
The gargoyles then spread their wings, soaring amid the ashes or dust in the hope that part of the departed will stay with them forever.
[Note: There was no one to perform the wind ceremony for Coldstone, Coldfire or Coldsteel. That, and the location's ambient magicks coupled with the trio's own passions, may explain their accessability to Demona's ressurection spell.]
Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (The new ramble...)
As promised, I'll now attempt to recreate the lost ramble on this episode, which I recently watched again with my family.
For those of you who haven't seen it, I refer you to my recently posted "Memo" on this episode dated back in April of 1994. One thing you might have noticed was that the title of the episode was "The Awakening". In the memo, I suggested what I thought was the more appropriate title "Reawakening". Michael liked that idea but had a suggestion that did it one better. He suggested renaming our pilot five-parter "Awakening". I jumped at the idea. At the time, the five-parter was simply titled "Gargoyles, Part One", "Gargoyles, Part Two", etc. I've never liked that sort of cop out where the pilot's title is simply the series' title. Among other things, it lacks imagination. And it's dishonest. By that standard, "The Journey"'s real title should have been "Gargoyles, Part Sixty-Six". So giving our pilot its own title seemed like a very good idea to me.
But there was another reason why I liked Michael's plan. We were working on our last episode of the first season. It was April of 1994, nearly a year before that episode would air. And a good six months before our premiere. There was no way of knowing whether or not there would ever be a SECOND season. And so to protect myself (emotionally) I had to operate on the assumption that their might not be. Obviously, I wasn't going to do anything apocalyptic. I wanted there to be a second season, so I wanted to leave the doorway open for it. So Michael, Frank, Brynne and I discussed the idea of open-ended closure. If there never was a second season, we'd go out with a bang. We'd give some small amount of closure to our characters. Let them reach a turning point. If this was to be it, we'd have created a little 13 episode novel that brought the Gargoyles from the past to the present and renewed (reawakened) their sense of purpose.
Nice. We'd done the open-ended closure thing (to a lesser degree) at the end of what would eventually be called "Awakening, Part Five" and we'd eventually do it again at the end of "Hunter's Moon, Part Three". And I'd do it for myself in my script for "The Journey".
But there are tricks to achieving a sense of closure. And one of the tricks is to create parallels with the episodes that launched your story.
So by retro-titling our pilot "Awakening" and naming our last ep "RE-Awakening" you can see how we gave ourselves a headstart.
But there were other parallels. The flashback to the past, (which we intentionally built so that it could theoretically be edited into the pilot if necessary) included the Magus at his most pre-Avalon obnoxious. Obviously, that flashback also intro'd pre-Coldstone, but it served the purpose of calling those first couple of flashback episodes clearly into the viewers' minds. (The only problem with that scene, is that Hudson has his sword in a couple of the shots. This is a mistake, as any good Garg fan knows that Hudson first acquired his sword in the battle with the Vikings that took place the following night.)
We also did the big event VILLAIN TEAM-UP thing, bringing Xanatos and Demona back together for the first time since "Awakening, Part Five". (I love the exquisite tension that plays between them. They are both SO using each other. When Demona tells Coldstone that X is her servant, you know that she's partly doing that to circumvent Coldstone's questions, but that she also partly believes that it's true.)
We also used Morgan in Times Square in a very similar way to how he was used in "Awakening, Part One" (reiterated in "Awakening, Part Two").
And then there's that moment near the end where Elisa asks Goliath if there's anything he needs. He answers "A Detective" verbally echoing a key moment from their first meeting in "Awakening, Part Three". That still tickles me.
HOMAGE
Obviously, Frank and I both worked overtime to pay homage to the classic Universal "FRANKENSTEIN" movie. I can say "pay homage" with a straight face (as opposed to rip off) because we so clearly acknowledged the source. Frank's art direction of the lab. X's line: "It's alive! Alive!" (Wonderfully undercut by Jonathan Frakes' reading of the follow-up "I've always wanted to say that.") And the whole idea behind Coldstone. (More on this when I eventually ramble on "Legion".)
Coldstone would be our Frankenstein's monster. Pieced together. Gargoyle & Machine. Reanimated (reawakened). I even love the Coldstone name. And wasn't Michael Dorn's sepulchral tones just perfect for the role?
And Goliath's reaction is so multi-faceted, so Dr. Frankenstein... [You know Goliath's response to his brother here, would be echoed later in his response to his "son" Thailog in "Double Jeopardy". Initially, Goliath's simply repulsed by what he sees, calling Coldstone "an abomination". But given a bit of time, Goliath quickly sees past appearances and attempts whole-heartedly to save his brother. He'll go through the same changes with Thailog. Well... at least we (and Goliath) were consistent.]
CONTINUITY
Snow. It started snowing in "Her Brother's Keeper" and now the city is blanketed in the stuff. (And doesn't Elisa look cute in her scarf and gloves.)
Brooklyn's still pissed off at Demona, specifically and sarcastically asking if she has anymore "spells to save you now". In fact, we wanted to make clear that the spell used to resurrect (reawaken) Coldstone was one of the spells she tore out of the Grimorum in "Temptation". Instead, we cheated a bit. By having her tell Xanatos that the "Cantrips have already been spoken" it saved us the trouble of getting another spell translated into Latin. We were either lazy or short on time or -- most likely -- both.
Following out of "The Edge", and until the helmet comes off at the bridge, the gargs assume that Xanatos in his armor is simply another Steel Clan Robot. The next upgrade. The red model. They have no idea it's actually Xanatos himself in armor.
Small observation: Mirrors don't fare too well in the Gargoyles Universe.
Emotionally, I think the story is very successful at taking the audience through Goliath's spiritual reawakening. I love how he starts out pensive and brooding, listening to that great exchange between the trio and Hudson, realizing that all of them have lost track of their true purpose. Hudson recites the Gargoyle credo merely as an excuse not to go out in the cold. (And I love Thom's reading on Lex's "We don't even live in a castle anymore" response.) The trio are clearly missing the point, but methodical thinker Goliath isn't sure he remembers what the point is either.
And that dovetails SO nicely with Elisa revealing the Police motto "Protect and Serve". The police motto/gargoyle credo connection is so perfect, it struck me even at the time as further proof that we were tapping into something very true in our little fictions. (And don't cops -- for better and sometimes for worse -- act just like a clan?)
From there, Goliath moves past the notion of simply being a reactive character, struggling only to SURVIVE one crisis after another. Now he will strive to be proactive. To rededicate (reawaken) the clan toward their original life purpose. Extending the term "castle" to Manhattan island was always our plan. Even that was intentionally primitive in our view. Goliath doesn't protect New York City. Not all five burroughs anyway. That's beyond his medieval scope at this still-early stage. He can get his head around protecting an island surrounded by water. Not the whole world. But eventually, the plan would include expanding the clan's definition until Castle Earth was the only thing that made sense. Of course, that might not have been fully realized until 2158. But we'd have gotten there. And the World Tour was part of that process too.
PROBLEMS
(Besides Hudson's sword...)
--One line in the ep. that for some reason still makes me cringe is Elisa's "My car's big." It just seems awkward to me. Not sure why.
X & D watch Coldstone's progress from the castle. Almost instantaneously they're at Times Square. We always knew we were just skating by on that.
Goliath & Coldstone go into the water at the bridge TWICE within the span of a couple of minutes or so. The first time, Goliath nearly drowns. The second time he's completely uneffected (physically) by the experience. We get away with it because the second time he's diving in on purpose. But just the fact that we had to dunk them both twice is an awkward construction (and my fault). At least, Goliath looks good with wet hair.
Some really graceful animation here. Goliath has some great moves, and I love that moment when Matt and especially Elisa are diving into the snow, out of the way of the car that Coldstone has just thrown... And speaking of that scene...
TIMES SQUARE SEQUENCE
There's some very interesting, fun stuff here besides what I've already mentioned about it above. A sampling:
Explosions in Bambi. :)
Demona's Clan: Herself, Coldstone, a Steel Clan Robot and Xanatos in Gargoyle Battle Armor. It's so twisted. I love it.
Goliath's very smart here. He doesn't want the fight to take place in public and basically convinces Xanatos to take his side on the issue by flattering him. Goliath refers to Manhattan as "your city" (i.e. Xanatos' city), this despite the obvious fact that Goliath does NOT regard Manhattan as Xanatos' personal property. And Xanatos, usually immune to such stuff, falls for it -- maybe BECAUSE it comes from the ultra-sincere Goliath.
I also am very fond of the Mr. Jaffe book-ends. I think they're a lot of fun. And I love how Matt talks about Mr. Jaffe. It gives us insight into Matt's character, his background, his youth. His empathy for Jaffe really helps humanize him. Matt was always eminently human.
Signing off now...
"Because six monsters just told me to..."
Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (background rambling)
I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.
But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...
THE MEMO (unedited):
To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436
Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES
GENERAL NOTES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)
Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.
After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.
Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).
This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.
SPECIFIC NOTES
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.
Page 1.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.
Page 2.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".
Page 3.
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.
Page 7
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".
Page 11
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.
Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.
ACT ONE
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.
2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.
3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--Police motto.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.
4. Castle
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?
5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."
6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.
ACT TWO
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.
8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.
9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.
10. Castle.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)
11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.
ACT THREE
12. Times Square.
--Stand-off.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.
13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?
14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.
15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.
16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.
17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."
18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."
19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
--FADE.
End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.
Todd Jensen writes...
In your vision, how does Goliath feel about Broadway and Angela's relationship? Does he approve of Broadway as a future "son-in-law"?
Greg responds...
Of course.
But again, try not to think too much like a human. Angela is just one of many clan-daughters. Since you know he likes Broadway, why wouldn't he want the big guy to mate with one of them?
Ambrosia writes...
Greg, as always, you are so delightful. I enjoyed reading your rambling about Awakening part 3 and all the little behind-the-scenes stuff you told us about. Ambrosia chuckles. Poor Brooklyn. I did wonder why he was always the one falling in and out of love. Curse you, Maggie.
No, I liked that we saw Demona ahead of time. I remember freaking out when I saw her alive, and yet it took nothing away from the scene where she is reunited with Goliath. And I think everyone knew that Xanatos was a "bad guy" although Demona was something of a shocker for me. I think it was a great dramatic moment.
I loved Goliath's line, "and please, don't fall off the building this time!" Unfortunately- and understand that it's hard for me to give criticism even though I know you invite it- but I liked Goliath much better in these 5 eps than anywhere else. He was thoughtful, calm and level-headed and I liked that in him. Later, though, he seemed to roar much more often and break things down before he thought about it carefully. I hafta say, Greg, this upset me a little. Consider Enter MacBeth. Goliath rampages throughout the whole ep tearing down MacBeth's home. Yeah, MacBeth kept hiding from him and he was frustrated, but the Goliath from Awakening might have found a better way to handle it. Which brings me to something else. Why was MacBeth running and not facing him in an honorable fight? MacBeth is reversed from my opinion of Goliath. I didn't like him at first (he seemed to be too much the stereotype of a villain) but as his depth grew, I liked him more.
Something that always bugged me about the scene when Hudson is named: He asks if the sky needs a name... the sky's name is sky! I'm going to have to be a human too and agree with Elisa: things do need names. I did love the scene with Brooklyn, Lexington and Tom. It warmed my heart to hear Lexington casually answer "We look different" to Tom's question, "How do you tell each other apart?" So cute! And even better to the question, "But what do you call each other?" was Brooklyn's, "friend."
I never gave a thought to part three not having any action. I loved it and, you're right: the characters themselves held my attention. Correction: my rapt attention.
Greg responds...
Erin (age 5 & 1/2) responds:
My favorite character is Tom. I liked the part when he said how do you tell each other apart. And I liked how he looked when he was little. And when he was a little boy.
Greg (age 36 & 1/2) responds:
Good point about Goliath. I always felt we had plenty of justification when Goliath was behaving badly. It came out of his lack of understanding of the twentieth century, his warrior up-bringing and occasional flares of temper and extreme frustration. The same thing happened in Act One of Awakening, Part Two. In "Enter Macbeth", Macbeth was intentionally goading him, which helped explain his increasing frustration and the resulting destruction. I don't think there was a better answer for Goliath on Macbeth's home turf. And once, Macbeth revealed his flawed plan to catch Demona, Goliath laughs, and the tables turn. And again, we have a Goliath who is responding with more thought -- and more success.
Macbeth's change takes place over time intentionally. He starts out bitter and borderline suicidal. And over the course of his multiple appearances, finds new reasons to carry on. Plus, of course, it never hurts to learn a characters background (as in "City of Stone") in order to generate more sympathy for him.
As for the name thing, I think YOU are the one splitting hairs. The sky is called the sky, the way Hudson is called a gargoyle. But to Hudson, you don't need to give the sky an additional name like, say, Fred. Hudson is used to being referred by his relationship to whomever he's talking to. Brother, Father, mentor, Leader, Friend, Old Friend, etc. The need to pinpoint him with an identity that isn't relative is human, not gargoyle. But even with all that, I'm human too, and I also feel the need to name -- it's addictive. I just like to point out the conceptual difference between traditional gargoyle customs and human changes.
Robby Bevard writes...
Hey Greg, it's me. The Vinnie fanatic and the guy who voiced the psycho truck driver at G99. This is my first post to ya, and I'm not even asking a question! (Well, I am curious about where you got the name "Nashville", but thats a different matter, I'll ask about that in a bit.) This is in response to your rambles about the series, and you asking about our first impressions of it. Since you're covering Awakenings, I'll cover the first season, since you'll be well past that by the time you read this.
My first impression of the show came during the trailer in "Nightmare before Christmas" actually, and I was totally psyched by that. I could tell it was going to have that sort of feel "Beauty and the Beast" had. The live version, with Linda Hamilton. Mixed in with Batman and nifty looking creatures. Looked good.
My second experiance unfortunatley, was a Disney Adventures mini-comic, so I knew the characters names and that Xanatos and Demona were villains before I ever saw it, which is a real pity. Ah well.
Then came the airing of the first episode. I watched the firs... 5 minutes, mezmerized. Then, my dad told me I had a doctor's appointment, and I had to leave, without a chance to set my VCR. I argued and fought to stay, but had no choice but to leave.
The next day, a couple of kids in my art class were talking about it. I tried to join the conversation based on what I knew from the Disney Adventures comic, only to be told, "But they don't have names. You're making that up." Heh.
Then came the second episode, which I watched, enthralled. I think perhaps having Demona's shadowed hint was a bad move, but I recal watching it with a friend and going "wow" the first time I saw the gargs cape their wings. Strangely enough, that's the part I remember most clearly, them caping their wings and thinking it was cool. Wierd.
The next three episodes flew by in a blur, day after day, that was grand. I was hooked and amazed by this series, and since it came on after I came home, I didn't even need to set the VCR! Yay! All of Awakenings just sort of blurs together as one great experiance with romance, action, and lots of good things. I rather enjoyed the trio's experiances in modern day, including the kitchen and bike riding scenes. (Incidentally, circumstances CONTINUOUSLY made me miss the first episode, so I never saw it until Awakenings was released on video, so I had no idea there was cut footage at first!)
The next episode I saw was the first encounter with the Pack. I liked Lexington at that point and thought perhaps he could be my favorite character. I also enjoyed the concept of a really cheezy TV-show being liked by the gargs, but at the time, didn't like the Pack at all. This I suppose, is just because you brought in the five of them all at once, and it was a lot of new personalities to keep up with.
After that, my schedual made it so that I saw episodes out of order, and both "Temptation" and "Reawakenings" I inintially saw only the last few minutes of.
Temptation however, I loved. It locked Brooklyn into place as my favorite character, and was the first episode I taped on the second run through. The way Brooklyn reacted to Demona was great, and she was also an interesting character as well, particularly in the little hints she dropped. The first time around I totally missed the fact that the bikers had failed to notice Brook was a monster until after he took his helmet off, I just knew it was a cool bike, and a cool attitude.
Long way till Morning- It was just cool to see Hudson kick butt and Demona be totally evil and sadistic. "Fine, I'll just shoot everything in this room." Man, I miss Demona being that nasty.
I suddenly forget the name of the episode where Broadway shoots Elisa, it'll come to me as soon as I post this... The first Dracon, didn't really care for him in that episode, he was much more interesting later. All I remember clearly is, Broadway firing, seeing Elisa on the ground, and then the cut to a commercial break. I stood up, stared at the screen, and went "NO! You can't do this!" Particularly effective since Gargs was so different from every other show on the air, it was actually possible a main character could die right then and there. I was scared for Elisa's life.
Enter Macbeth- All I remember about that one the first time is "Ouch." Vrooo. "Ouch." Vrooo. "Ouch." Hee hee... That's still probably the best bits of the series. In retrospect, I was really impressed with MacBeth at the time. Cool voice, cool outfit, cool sense of honor. I *LIKED* him.
Her Brother's Keeper- Wasn't too thrilled with this one the first time. It was another Pack episode, and I still didn't really care about them. (Later viewings made it out to be a much better episode than the original impression gave.)
ReAwakenings- ANother one I originally saw the last few minutes of first. However, another of the best lines in the series, "It's alive! Aliiiive! I've always wanted to say that." still cracks me up to this day.
Hmm. I've missed an episode, but for the life of me, I can't recall which one it was. It'll come to me... And I've probably rambled on enough already considering I think I'm one of the first to ramble back at you...
Greg responds...
You forgot "The Edge". But that's o.k. Nice to hear from you. You were a great Psycho Truck Driver. Hope to see you again in Orlando.
Regarding the "caping of the wings"... That was Gary Krisel's idea, and initially I was against it because it felt too Batman to me. But at some point, I became a true convert. We sent a bunch of faxes to Japan to make sure they'd cape the wings whenever it was emotionally appropriate. That would give us opportunities to cape and uncape for various dramatic effects. Plus, hell, it looks cool.
Todd Jensen writes...
A response to your "Awakening Part Three" ramble.
Hudson's bewildered comments on why humans seem so insistent on naming everything are among my favorite lines in "Gargoyles" (and express in particular one of the things that I most liked about the series; the way that it actually gave the gargoyles that feeling of having their own culture and outlook upon the world - I once commented on one of the Internet Gargoyles sites that the show did for gargoyles what "Watership Down" did for rabbits).
I don't think that I was all that bothered by Demona's outline (although I'm not sure that I even caught it first time around). Actually, I was probably sub-consciously expecting her to return, as I said in my "Awakening Part One" comments, given how much they explored her in the first episode. I didn't think that you'd build up a figure like that in Part One and then drop her for the rest of the series; that would be wasteful.
One thing that I definitely still enjoy about Part Three: the continuing coverage of Goliath's learning more about modern-day New York. I particularly liked his awed (and poetic) description of Xanatos's monitor screen as "like a living tapestry", comparing the streets of New York to the old Roman roads (I wonder if Goliath ever saw any Roman roads, of course, since Rome never did conquer Scotland), and asking Elisa the natural question that a 10th century person would ask about the city: why no walls to keep the invaders out?
One thing that I also noticed on later watchings of the episode in reruns and on tape: the bit where when Goliath prepares to go gliding off with Elisa and takes her in his arms, they exchange a little happy smile, then break off upon remembering that Hudson's there. I like to think of it as one of the first little hints that we get as to what's to come between them.
Greg responds...
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
I agree with everything you wrote. Which makes this response pretty boring, but I don't mind if you don't.
Todd Jensen writes...
I liked your rambling on "Awakening Part One", and look forward to the rambles on the other episodes following.
Both I and a number of other Gargoyles fans had indeed picked up on Princess Katharine's hypocrisy that you mentioned, disapproving of "beasts" (i.e. gargoyles) in the great hall, but permitting the dogs to roam about in there during the feast. I was amused to learn about how you'd planned to make that bit more pointed with the dog making off with somebody's food.
The bit where Lexington and Brooklyn were talking to Tom about not having names, and calling each other "Friend" instead, was a part that I liked as well. It was at that point that I definitely decided that I liked gargoyles.
I don't remember for certain what I thought about whether Demona was alive or dead. I suspect, however, that I may have believed her to ultimately turn up again, simply because it struck me as improbable that a character with such a big role in Episode One would be killed at the end of it and never heard from again.
I very much enjoyed the medieval scenes, which reminded me a bit of David Macaulay's animated specials for PBS about building in the ancient and medieval world (particularly the first one, "Castle"). Not to mention (as I said before) that I was delighted with the Vikings looking much more historically accurate, with not a single horned helmet in sight, being already familiar with the way that they actually did dress (I know that I should be thanking the animators on this, actually, but there isn't an "Ask Frank Paur" page up anywhere as far as I know, so this'll have to do :)
Before the episode first premiered, I'd been aware of "Gargoyles" soon to be coming out, but wasn't certain as to whether I'd like it that much or not, fearing that it would just be another mainstream super-hero series. But when it quickly began the "Scotland - 994 A.D." sequence, I decided that I was definitely going to like it. (And indeed, felt slightly disappointed when I reflected that the bulk of the series wouldn't be set in medieval Scotland, considering how much I was enjoying that part of the story - I'm something of a Middle Ages buff - and began to fantasize about "Wouldn't it be great if they did a prequel series set in 10th century Scotland before the massacre?" - which, of course, I now know that you did indeed plan on doing later on.
At any rate, thanks for the ramble again.
Greg responds...
You're welcome. And thanks for responding in such detail.
In an ideal world I'd have definitely used the massacre to "kill off" characters that you got to know well, to make the tragedy more personal. But there was no room to include even Othello.
When you say that the "friend" conversation was the point where you decided you liked gargoyles, do you mean the series or the species?
Lynne Like writes...
I'm really glad I found your website! I'm more or less a newcomer--I watched the series when it first aired and loved it. Now I watch it on Toon Disney every night. However, tonight they air the final two episodes of TGC (which, I agree with you, should be ignored). But I'm hoping that they start the series again from the beginning. I don't think they aired each and every one of the eps...I discovered them late while channel surfing (glad I did)!
Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I feel your ideas in your "Ramblings" post on Jan. 24, 2000 regarding "re-awakening" the show are great! I guarantee if you pull it off, I'm there! How long do I have to wait? :*) Wanna see it before I get TOO old to get lost in fantasy anymore (that will never happen, especially since I'm an incurable romantic [fanatic??]). *sigh* I guess I can always read my Tolkien and Piers Anthony until you can get around to it... ;)
BTW, I love your dry sense of humor, too! A Gargoyle (Gargess in my case?) after my own heart.
Thanks for everything...
Greg responds...
One little correction first. This isn't my web-site. The site is owned by Gorebash, who graciously puts up with all the extra work involved in maintaining ASK GREG. Let's hear it for Gore.
And, you're welcome. Thanks for the kind words, Lynne.
By the way, in my opinion, the word "Gargoyle" conotes no sex. There's no need to feminize it to Gargess or whatever in order to talk about a female of the species.
Julie Cavignac writes...
Hey, Greg! I just wanted to say, thanks for putting up with all of our rantings, ravings and questions! I think it is so cool that you take a bit of your personal time to actually respond to all of these (sometimes really DUMB) questions. I also wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your answers. Your wit and humor really have no bounds. :-) You know, I am actually quite shocked that you answer some of the questions from the "Raging Hormone" group of teens and pre-teens about Gargoyle nudity, virginity, sex, and reproduction! Sheesh! It cracks me up! I have read some of the fan fic stories, and I have to say, their fantasies of seducing Goliath and baring their children...well, we won't go into that! Anyway, like I said before, THANKS, for everything. :-)
Greg responds...
You're welcome.
Actually, I don't feel like I get that many sex et al questions. Probably, just as well. Though people who attended the 98 Gathering got an earful from me.
Marc writes...
1.I was wondering about the Scottish Gargoyle's religion if there was one.
2. And in Scotland the Gargoyles are a very communal species focused on the good of the clan and do not individualize anyone (i.e. by not having names or parents). Yet almost immediately when the gargoyles arrive in NY they accept names, and then continue to break with their communal tradition by acknowledging Angela as Goliath's daughter and so on. Is this a practical adaptation that would occur when the Gargoyles encounter the US where individualism is treasured, or was it part of the philosophy of the show?(or maybe just necessary for the audience to identify them)
Greg responds...
All right, first off as Diane Maza pointed out, Angela is Goliath's daughter, by any definition.
So some of your assumptions are semi-faulty. But yes, some human customs are addictive and the gargoyles adapted. It wasn't a philosophy of the show, so much as it seemed real to us. As for the name thing, well, yes, we wanted the audience to be able to identify them, but we could have given them all biblical names back in 994 Scotland. We chose not to. And I like how we handled it. It doesn't have much to do with U.S. individualism. But I think we did want to contrast modern Manhattan with ancient community and clan.
As for Garg religion. Well check the Gargoyles Customs archive for more information. They didn't have a religion per se, but they had a set of traditions and belief in an pantheistic yet monotheistic guiding force.
AWAKENING, PART THREE
Watched this with the family half an hour ago...
More random observations...
RE: Our supporting cast...
Who knew that Brendan & Margot would wind up being so important? Credit Marina Sirtis, for making Margot so gloriously bitchy.
And then there's Vinnie's first appearance on that motorcycle. Of course, no one knew Vinnie existed back then, which is thoroughly appropriate to his character.
And credit Keith David with breathing real life into Morgan the cop. Morgan didn't even have a name then. He was just a place holder, someone for Elisa to respond to. But Keith made me interested in him.
Little things still bug me. Xanatos' floating ponytail in the scene where he and Elisa first meet.
In the Kitchen, the Freezer door was supposed to have one of those easy to open latches on the inside. The irony being that Broadway could easily extricate himself, if he just knew how to operate the latch (or even what it was). Something a kid could do, assuming the kid was born in the 20th century. But BW has to bust down the door.
In the original script and the recording of that script, it's Brooklyn who says "So many wonders..." and it's Broadway who says "Goliath said not to let anybody see us." But in those early days, lots of people in L.A. and in Tokyo kept confusing their names (and Bronx's) so the animation came back as you see it. And it was easier to re-record the voices then to reanimate. (Or am I getting all this totally backwards? I just saw the show again half an hour ago, and already, I'm confused.)
(CAVEAT: In all these little things, I'll probably be pointing out animation errors here and there. But please understand, I think most of the animation we got, particularly from Walt Disney TV Animation - Japan, was brilliant. I think those guys did a great job and don't get enough credit. But anecdotes generally come out of when things go wrong, not when they go right, so it may seem like I'm talking about mistakes more often than not. Sorry, in advance to Roy Sato or anyone else who might take offense.)
When Elisa is first being checked out by the Trio, there was a scene in the original animation where Brooklyn seems inordinantly interested in her behind. We had to call a retake, cuz the guy was practically drooling. I wonder if that's where I got the idea that Brooklyn would fall for anyone in a skirt (or with a tail).
Also, after Goliath saves Elisa from falling off the building we have a point of view shot from her. It begins at Goliath's feet and pans up to his face, as she takes him in. In the original animation, the pan started at his head and panned down. That seemed less effective, so we had our editors reverse the pan, without calling for a retake.
At the end of Act Two, the door slides open revealing Demona in silhouette, clearly plotting something with Xanatos. That always really bugged me. I didn't want to give away that she was alive in this episode. I didn't want to know who Xanatos was talking to. How did you guys react to this? Did that spill everything? Did any of you not know that Demona was alive? Did any of you, by this point, not know that she and Xanatos were the bad guys?
Elisa says something like "This is where Dracula shows up." when she's walking through the corridors of the castle. If you take that literally (and you might as well), then you gotta figure that someday, Dracula will be roaming that very hallway.
Elisa loses the first in her series of guns, when Goliath crushes it near the end of Act One.
Goliath tells a joke: "And please, don't fall off the building this time." Goliath tells a joke. Can you believe it? It wasn't bad either. We should have let him tell jokes more often.
Elisa's surprise that Goliath can talk is indicative of what I thought a 20th (or 21st) century initial response to the gargs would be. That's why Goliath Chronicles' trial episode bugged me so much. I don't think humans would take for granted sentience. And I think most humans, those less open than Elisa, wouldn't even buy talking as enough evidence that the gargs weren't just beasts. (Cf. Margot Yale.)
Goliath is a pretty begruding hero. That's somewhat unique for cartoons. Elisa asks if there are more gargs, and Goliath responds: "Barely." He cuts her very little slack. But already you can see their relationship developing. I still think Hudson's expression after Goliath sweeps Elisa up into his arms is just priceless.
In that same scene, Hudson gets named for the river. I love that scene, as I loved the scene where Tom, Brook and Lex are talking about names. Of course, the desire not to name most of the gargoyles until we got to NYC '94, was mostly pragmatic. It allowed us to use those fun, cool NY names for most of the characters. But once we came up with the rationale for it, and once I managed to explain it to everyone, I really fell in love with the concept. Hudson's lament, here, that humans don't think something is real until they've put there stamp on it, is, to me at least, so damn true. And Elisa's response is so feeble and circular. "Things need names." Pathetic. But I'm no different. <SIGH> I'm such a human. But I aspire to gargoylosity. Anyway, after Hudson points to the river, and Elisa basically tricks him into taking that name, she used to have a line, as I may have mentioned before, where she said (under her breath) "Good thing we weren't facing Queens" -- implication being that Hudson nearly ended up being called Queen, I guess. It was always funny, but S&P didn't care for it, and I couldn't really defend it. So out it went. We tried another version, where she just says, "Good thing we weren't facing East." But it didn't play. So out it went too.
The thing that struck me most, however, was the almost thorough lack of action in this episode. After all that Viking stuff in Part One, and Vikings and a full act of commandos in Part Two, Part Three is a mood and character piece. Sure Elisa falls off a building, but that was a problem easily solved. Until the commandos' Central Park attack in the last seconds of Act Three, nothing else happens that could genuinely qualify as action. That was mostly a result of what was once a four-parter being turned into a five-parter. The reason we made that change is because Michael Reaves wrote a brillaint four-part script. It was amazing. But it was WAY too long. I was faced with either having to make drastic cuts (as I would later have to do in Avalon and Hunter's Moon) or expand it. Fortunately, Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston saw the wisdom of expansion. For one thing, it would save us money. But also, it made sense because we could run the five parts across a whole week of the Disney Afternoon like a mini-series special event. It wouldn't require us to re-program one day of that first week. So we were all agreed, the four parter would become a five parter.
But that meant adding act breaks, and redividing everything. The episode that most benefited was Part One. In the orignal version, Part One covered all of what is currently part one, plus the first act of what's currently part two, i.e. ALL the Scotland stuff. The episode ended with Goliath's "suicide". A great ending, but we would have obviously had to cut a TON out of the flashback. This way we were able to expand into part two and preserve almost all of the story.
So Part Three winds up being nearly action-free. And by the way, I love that. I still think the episode works great, and it proved to me that the charcters themselves could really hold the audience's attention. (I'm such a proud papa. Unashamedly so. It must be pretty obnoxious.) I wish we had always had the luxury to be so... well, luxurious. To expand and play character. But generally a half-hour format makes it tough. I'm very sick of writing half hours, actually. But the powers that be in Animation believe that kids can't or won't sit through an hour long show.
As usual, I welcome posts here responding to this episode. Both your original reaction to seeing it for the first time, and your current reaction if you've seen it again recently.
kjay writes...
Dear Greg,
1. How long ago did Gargoyles started helping humans? Did
it started before 900 A.D? If so why aren't there pictures/paintings of Gargoyles on anicent human artifacts or whatever(ex. cave paintings, egyptian art)?
thanks
Greg responds...
Who says there aren't?
Todd Jensen writes...
Another question about the gargoyles. Technically, their protecting New York might be considered vigilantism; after all, they're not recognized agents of the law, even if they serve as secret and unofficial partners of a sort to a police detective. Had you ever intended to do anything with the vigilante issue where the gargoyles' patrols were concerned?
Greg responds...
Eventually.
Aris Katsaris writes...
In the gargoyles bible for the first season you had made mention of the existence of a 'very wise man' who first made an alliance with gargoyles building his castle of a gargoyle rookery and who ushered in the golden age of gargoyle-human relations...
Is this still how you picture it happening? The existence of a specific 'very wise man' was intriguing to me - is he just a generic figure, or someone whose name we would recognize? (I have my own idea on the subject ofcourse but I refrain from suggesting it in case it's considered a story-idea)
Greg responds...
I was being generic in the bible on purpose to simplify things. Honestly, I don't think I ever really thought there was just one person who did that. The world was too big a place and there wasn't any internet back then to facilitate communication. So that "wise man" was a place holder in my mind for a number of intelligent humans and gargoyles who made multiple alliances over multiple centuries in multiple places.
One such alliance of "wise men" was the alliance formed between Hudson and Malcolm, which was brokered by Robbie.
Another alliance was that formed between Xanatos and Demona, brokered by Owen, with a little help from Brooklyn, Mary and Finella behind the scenes.
Heather N. Allen writes...
I'll mention here that I've reintroduced myself to Gargoyles only this summer via fan webpages and I've managed to get Toon Disney for only a month. Therefore, while not completly updated on every detail of each episode, I do remember quite a bit from the original airdates of them. And if this question has been asked before, forgive me, but I've only frequented Ask Greg for three months. If it's in the archives somewhere, just point the way. SOOO, without further ado...
I remember in a past question where you mentioned recycling characters. (Morgan, Margot and Brendan, Vinnie, etc.) While watching the AVALON episodes, I noticed that many of Angela's rookery sibs were identical to those gargoyles seen in Demona's renagade clan from 2nd century, right down to the clothing. As I understood it, she collected THEM from other clans that were destroyed throughout Scotland. No way for their eggs to end up in Wyvern's rookery, or even on Avalon for that matter.
So, here's the question: were these gargs mearly another batch of recycled characters? And if so, why use them on Avalon? Did you see any kind of conflict coming from this? Or is there another reason altogether that I'm missing entirley?
By the way, I REALLY envy you for having created such a great story, with all these fictional and factual elements mixed in to create the best animated series ever. Wish I'd thought of it :)
Greg responds...
If you're looking for the "Behind the Scenes" answer it's pretty obvious. We couldn't afford to design multiple clans of background gargoyles everytime we did a flashback story or went to Avalon. So we reused the models, figuring most people wouldn't notice.
But there's also a within the Universe explanation that works for me. When a Gargoyle clan gets too large for it's location, it splits and colonizes. The Wyvern Clan had been living in relative peace under Prince Malcolm. In my mind it got up to about 100 or so Gargoyles and Beasts. That was too large a number for Wyvern to sustain, so approximately half of the gargoyle population moved on to found a new colony, start a new clan. But all the eggs were left behind in the established Wyvern rookery. The new colony obviously didn't fair any better than Wyvern ultimately, but Demona collected up a few of its survivors, during the Maol Chalvim/Duncan era.
But some of those survivors left eggs behind at the Wyvern rookery, which explains why there are some look-alikes on Avalon.
As for the clothes.... Give me a break.
Aris Katsaris writes...
About garg clothing turning to stone you've given the explanation about the Magus of Rome casting a spell causing that to the whole gargoyle race...
1) Would that mean that he was a wizard of tremendous power (since he was able to cast a spell on a whole species) or did he simply have access to a spell or trinket of tremendous power? (the same way Demona had access to the praying gargoyle for example - the power that protected all the gargoyle race not being hers)
2) I know that the reason for this explanation was so as to explain the real-life standards & practices need of not having the gargoyles fly around naked, but still: did you ever plan to make an ep concerning the casting of this spell? Or would it be rather difficult to even approach the subject of gargoyle nudity? :)
Greg responds...
1. I don't pretend to have worked out the details of it.
2. If I had gotten to do TimeDancer, I would have made a sincere attempt to try and do a light-hearted episode that covered this. Don't know whether it would have made it past Standards & Practices, but I would have given it a shot.
Aris Katsaris writes...
This is more of a comment/correction rather than a question. I think that you've miscalculated a date. In a previous Ask Greg question you had said that you had once calculated that the gargs both in Avalon and in the real world will lay eggs at 2008. I think that must have been a mistake on your part: I believe that gargoyles lay egg in their 50th or 49th year (biological 25). That would mean that in Avalon-time 50*24=1200 years. The gargs at avalon should lay their eggs only 1200 real-world years after they were hatched. That in turn means that if they were hatched around somewhere around year 1040, they shouldn't lay eggs until 2240 or something like that...
Anyway thought I should mention this...
Greg responds...
No, that's not right.
God knows it's been years since I did this math, however I think you are operating on faulty assumptions.
Yes, the Avalon eggs hatched in 1044.
Thus by 1995, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, et al. would all be biologically twenty years old. That's way past Gargoyle puberty in my book. So what remains is for their internal clocks to be in sync, so to speak, with the natural rhythms of the Earth that would put the females "in heat" (for lack of a better term). That would next occur sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.
That easily puts, say, Ophelia in synch with Angela and Obsidiana out in the real world. The difference comes twenty years later in 2028, when the latter two might again lay eggs. But to Ophelia she would have only just laid her first egg a mere 20 months ago. I don't know whether that's enough recovery time for her, enough time for her own internal cycle -- but in any case her first egg certainly wouldn't have hatched yet.
It's also worth considering whether Ophelia and Angela might have been "in heat" in Avalon in 1988? Maybe they were, and maybe Katharine was preaching abstinence in a major way.
Suddenly, I feel like this is Christine's show. :) [No, I haven't read her fan-fiction, but boy have I heard rumors.]
In any case, for those of you with dirty minds, I think Angela was a virgin even at the time of "The Journey". (Broadway too for that matter.) Not so sure about Ophelia.
Lawrence Stone writes...
How many children can Gargoyles have?
Greg responds...
A clansworth.
Chaeslon writes...
Hi Greg,
Would a gargoyle's childhood & adolescence include any sort of combat training, or do gargoyles pretty much fight instinctively?
Thanks!
Greg responds...
Both.
Flame Dublin writes...
Dear Greg,
will Broadway ever find out that Hudson is his father? Will Hudson ever find out that Broadway is his son?
Greg responds...
They know this already.
Oh. You mean bioligically... Why would they care about that? It's a non-issue. (You people are such humans.)
Jeff Lenihan writes...
Mr. Weisman,
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
1)How do the Trio and Hudson feel about the relationship between Goliath and Elisa? I'm guessing the Trio probably don't have a problem with it(based on their reactions to seeing the two dancing in "Eye of the Beholder"), but I can't help wondering if Hudson would feel that, as clan leader, Goliath is setting a poor example for the Trio by abandoning gargoyle tradition to take a second mate(and a human at that).
2)In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?
Greg responds...
1. I think Hudson saw something going on between Goliath and Elisa as far back as the night he took the name Hudson in "Awakening, Part Three". Look at his face, after Goliath picks up Elisa.
I don't know if he had reservations at first. But they can't still exist. Especially after "Vows". (A) Hudson is a realist. (B) I think he's more open-minded then you give him credit for. And (C) I think he loves Elisa like a daughter at this point.
2. Per our rules, I invite and hope you will resubmit your second (quite interesting, but unrelated question) on a separate post.
Lou Serbio writes...
The Goliath and Elisa romance: was marriage ever considered a possibiliy?
Greg responds...
As I've mentioned before -- way down the line there would have been a commitment ceremony of sorts. WAY DOWN THE LINE.
Scott Iskow writes...
I've been wondering a little bit about the environment in which gargoyles are raised, (at least, in 10th century Scotland).
1) Is their "protection" philosophy nature or nurture?
2) How do you explain gargoyles that stray from the ideology?
3) What happens to them if their "deviance" is discovered by the rest of the clan?
Greg responds...
1. Both.
2. How do you explain any one who strays from accepted ideology?
3. Depends how pronounced that "deviance" is.
*The Bride of Ringo* writes...
Hi once again doll... ok, here's my question:
1) Did Goliath kind of already know that Angela was his biological daughter before the events in 'Monsters' happened but just didn't say he already knew? The reason i ask this is that in "Avalon: Part 1" Elisa points out that Angela looks like Demona, but with different coloring, Goliath knows what he looks like and what Demona looks like, so maybe he figured in his own head Angela was his biologic child. Also, in "Shadows of the past" as Goliath shows Angela the rookery he looks at her, at that same time he hear Demona saying "Come to me".
Greg responds...
Yeah, I think Goliath figured it out instantly. And I think he instantly felt a kinship with her. But also with Gabriel, who isn't his biological son. Goliath doesn't have the same "social programming" we do with regard to biological offspring.
Lexy:) writes...
*squeels like a school girl* really??? Someday your really gonna answer the "Whos Lex's mate" Question??? *jumps up and down* YES!!! *grins* one day hey? I'll wait for that!
Ok here are my Q's *smiles*
1.) You said that Gargoyles have a weak sense of smell so that there may be a possibility that Hudson knows that Broadway is his biological son. My question is then, did Goliath ever have the same feeling when he encountered Angela for the first Time?
2.) When Goliath and co. were touring the world we met a lot of differnt cultures. Since we never heard any other langauges spoken or subtitled (VERY understandable) does that mean that we happened to meet up with ppl who all spoke english?
(part 2 of 2)
Or does this have to do with the Phoenix Gate ie. some ability to make all ppl's appear to be speaking Goliath's and Co's langauge?
(part 3 of 2)
If you could have made the call, would you have prefered to have subtitles?
(part 4 of 2)
If you had been able to do the Time Dancer Spin off, which I know wasn't considered, this is just an if..
Then how would you have explained the langauge barriors? Would it have been Brooklyn having to physically learn Japanese or other langauges? Or again does this have to do with the Phoenix Gate and its abilities?
3.) (another TD Q) When Brooklyn returns post TD does he remember fairly clearly the events of the past 40 years? Or is it hazy?
4.)Lots of ppl have asked about the Gargoyles Original origins. Some have guessed things such as dragons or dinosaures. You said in response to this, "mabey". There have also been thoughts that they were created by an independant being. But that is another deal. My question is for the first theory. How Do you explain the fact that some gargs possess facial and other bodily hairs? (Isn't hair only found on mammals)
5.) Some time ago someone asked you about the praying Gargoyle statue. They asked that if Demona would have succeeded would the Olympians Or Oberon's Children survive as well. I think you said something about not being sure about Orberon's children but no to the New Olympians minus the Gargoyles Living there. The Gargoyles living there are probably not full gargoyles. I say so since the island seems to be made up of meny crossbreeds. Does that mean that any creature with some amount of Gargoyle blood in them would survive?
6.) Is the name Cast-away a pun? (<---- illustrates the point) I'm sure im reading WAY to deep into this here..but i was just wondering if the name was there to show any kind of abandonment John may feel or have created. *nods* ya ya i know..
7.) Can you give us any information about David's mother?
8.) In "Highnoon" 'Coldstone' asks Demona and Macbeth, "Why does nobody see us?", to which they respond that it dosn't matter and to leave it be. How is it that Elisa walks right up to them with no problem? Is it part of a spell?
9.) Is there an age at which female Gargoyles become fertile and infertile?
10.) Gargoyle eggs are in a rookery for 10 years before hatching..is that in human years or garg?
11.) We know that on Avalon there is a time difference. Every Hour there equals a day here. Is there such a time change on Olympus?
12.) When you said a character from N. Olympian's was going too meet up with some character We know of did you mean a major character?
13.) Going along with question 12..feel like telling us about that Romeo Juliet thing? *grins*
14.) We all know that Lexington was at least going to suffer some emotional trama as it were. I don't really see him as going compleatly off his rocker...mabey minor betral or perhaps becoming introvered and crabby..but nothing as we saw in "Future Tense". How severe did you see Lexington's reacion would have been? (ie, just a teen faze thing..or something worse)
15.) I'm Very sorry in advance if you never said this. But I seem to remember you saying something about Brooklyn's Children as being twins..something rare in the Gargoyles Universe. When Brooklyn and them arrive home they are biologically 13 and 3. So where they hatched separatly? In two different seasons. Or where they birthed on the same night but due to some timedancing are separated by age?
16.) U said that post TD Brooklyn avoids the Phoenix Gate like the plauge..dose that mean we would have seen more of it?
17.) And for my last Q. just cuz..im really annoying, Do you feel like telling us about lex's girl NOW???? *grins*
*looks over her list of other q's* hmm thats enough for today..;)
Thanks! *wings out*
Greg responds...
UGH, another marathon question. Yes, I know, it was posted before my request for fewer questions per post. But still....
1. I said they have a weak sense of smell? And I tied that into Hudson knowing about Broadway, how? I'm sorry. I don't think I understand the question.
2. Uh, largely.
2a. No. It really has more to do with the creative/production decision to wimp out and not deal with the problem.
2b. Probably, here and there. I sort of did make the call after getting input from numerous people about the difficulties involved. Then Frank and I changed our minds on Bushido, but we were told it was too late.
2c. I think I might have had some fun with the language barriers up to a point.
3. Clear as anyone's memories of a 40 year span.
4. Gargoyles clearly have some mammalian qualities, or perhaps a better way to think about it is that mammals have some Gargoylian qualities.
5. You're making assumptions not in evidence.
6. It's not a pun, per se. But yes, he (and we) chose the name for a reason.
7. Can I? Yes.
8. Yup.
9. Puberty and menopause.
10. Human.
11. No.
12. Xanatos at least.
13. Well, Lexy, you've seen the pitch now. What else do you want to know?
14. Huh?
15. I never said they were twins. NEVER.
16. Don't know. But I'm guessing we all will have had our fill of the thing by then.
17. No.
7-9-99
Airwalker writes...
1. What would be Katana and Nashville's reaction to Malibu?
2. Do you have designs in mind for Katana, Nashville, Tachi, Fudog, and Hudson's mate? If so, could you describe them?
3. You said that Brooklyn ended up with Mary and Finella in the 1970's. So doesn't that mean that they would still be alive today?
4. Why did you say that Shakespeare's MACBETH would amuse Macbeth? It portrays Gruoch as a Princess of Darkness. How can he take pleasure in that?
5. In what era did Demona arrive in America (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstruction, etc)?
6. In what era did Macbeth arrive in America (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstruction, etc)?
7. Now that Renard knows the truth about Anastasia, has it changed anything for him in terms of his feelings for her?
8. Considering that after all is said and done, Goliath was raised and lived most of his life in the 10th century, what is his stand on capital punishment?
9. What are the feelings of the Trio about the Magus and Katharine, considering that they only knew them before they changed, and have never seen their redemption, only heard of it?
10. What are the Mutates feelings about the Gargoyles now living in the castle?
11. Any news on the movie?
12. If you had done BAD GUYS, would Macbeth and/or Demona have appeared?
13. Why didn't anyone ever figure out that Gilcomgain was the Hunter? He has slash marks on his face that match the one's on the mask.
14. Broadway's blindness in FUTURE TENSE, was it just Puck playing with Goliath's sanity AND a prophecy or was it only just Puck playing with Goliath's mind?
15. If the show ever did come back, would you ever bring up or try to make clearer that the people Demona smashed in CITY OF STONE were truly dead?
16. You said that Demona would find love again. But what about Macbeth? Would he have found love again?
17. How rich would you classify Xanatos, Demona, Macbeth, and Post-RECKONING Thailog (Mildly rich, extremely rich, stinking rich, beyond the reach of ordinary people rich)?
18. What did the Mutates do with Sevarious' potion from THE CAGE?
19. Would you have shown us some of Fang's past and also some of his family if BAD GUYS had been done?
20. Can you give us a clue, where in the world, which hemisphere, which continent, where ever, is Coldstone and Coldfire's new clan going to be?
21. What was the name of Xanatos' mother and when did she die?
22. You said you haven't come up with real names for Jackal and Hyena. But do you have anything in mind?
23. Does Macbeth know about the Illuminati?
24. Does the Illuminati know about Macbeth?
25. Would we have seen some of Lexington's descendants in GARGOYLES 2158?
Greg responds...
1. That would depend on the circumstances of their introduction, don't you think?
2. I've dealt with this recently. I do have a fairly clear idea about Fu Dog. But I'm not going to pin myself down at this point.
3. Doesn't preclude the possibility.
4. It has a lot to do with Mac's relationship to Will.
5. In the immortal words of my Magic Eightball: "Try Again Later".
6. Which time?
7. What exactly does he know?
8. He probably has little trouble with it but feels that in an ideal world (which he knows this is not) it's a less than stellar solution. Of course, that's all very theoretical. In practice, we've seen how he responds.
9. Distanced.
10. The Mutates aren't a monolith.
11. Nothing new, since I last answered.
12. Maybe, eventually, but not in my immediate plans.
13. Dramatic license? Or.... There were a lot of people with similar scars running around Scotland back then. Yeah. That's the ticket.
14. You didn't really think I'd answer that, did you?
15. You mean go out of my way to cover that?
16. Sure. Why not? (I'm such an old softy.)
17. Xanatos is Beyond the Reach rich. Macbeth is just stinking rich. Demona's extremely rich. Thailog's just rich.
18. Maggie saved it.
19. Yes.
20. Huh?
21. Not saying now.
22. Jack and Hanna. (Just kidding.) (Unless, I decide that those names really amuse me.)
23. Not saying.
24. Not saying.
25. Not saying.
Airwalker writes...
Glad to see AskGreg is back up.
1. Does Demona know about the Illuminati Society?
2. Does the Illuminati Society know about Demona?
3. Why exactly did you decide that Jackal and Hyena would become Cyborgs and that Wolf would become a Mutate? Why specifically that combination instead visa versa?
4. How long has Nokkar's intergalactic war been going on?
5. What happened to the helicopter Lexington fixed in HER BROTHERS KEEPER?
6. You said that New Olympians generally live for 13-250 years. So would any of the New Olympians we know be alive and around in 2158?
7. How does the Avalon Clan feel about Demona and Macbeth? (They must know those two weren't acting under their own will during the fight with the Archmage but to someone who they injured that little bit of information might not exactly displace anger at being injured.)
8. After all these years, does Macbeth know that Demona was listioning outside his window when Bodhe suggested betraying her clan to the English?
9. What are the Mutates feelings towards Alex Xanatos?
10. Why didn't Xanatos try to make Coldfire and Clodsteel look more "alive"; meaning why not slap some fake flesh on them like he did for Cyoti 1.0?
11. In POSSESSION, why wasn't Angela shocked at seeing Coldstone? After all when Goliath first saw him, he called him an abomination.
12. What was Goliath thinking in SANCTUARY and MARK OF THE PANTHER when he kept tellin Angela that she has many mothers and fathers? Who was he thinking of? There's only him, Hudson, Coldstone, Demona, and the Trio at that point. Did he seriously expect the Trio to think of Anglea as their daughter?
13. In 2158, how do you picture the world political status? Are there still seperate countries for example?
14. What is the legal status of Gargoyles in 2158?
15. What is Renard's opinion of Petros Xanatos?
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. Quite a bit.
3. A lot had to do with what felt right for the characters I guess. Wolf was very animalistic and hostile. Seemed perfect to make him a genetic werewolf. Jackal & Hyena were just nuts. A sociopath and a psychopath. It felt right that they would take things to the ultimate extreme.
4. Quite some time, young feller.
5. Kenner decided not to make a toy out of it.
6. That wasn't my plan.
7. Indiviuals all react differently. I'm not going to give you thirty-six individual responses.
8. I think he figured it out that night on Lunfanan Hill.
9. Which Mutate?
10. Fake gargoyle flesh? What would be the point?
11. Well, the truth here is that Angela had seen him already in the Himalayas. At least that had been my plan if the comic book hadn't been cancelled.
12. He was trying to instill in her the idea that her preoccupation with her biological parentage was an unhealthy human notion. (And since he knew Demona was her biological mother, you can see where his fear was coming from.) Of course, he lost the forest for the trees as Diane Maza pointed out in "Mark". He tried to make up for it later.
13. Yes and no.
14. Protected minority.
15. They barely know each other. And on some level, I think they'd get along, except for one thing... Renard hates David. And though Petros doesn't approve of much of his son's actions, I can't see him standing calmly by while someone else berates his son. Blood. Whatchagonnado?
Todd Jensen writes...
Phew! Nice to have this thing back! Now for some questions that I've been waiting a long time to ask.
1. In "The Journey", during his recruitment speech, Castaway, while playing upon the fears of the citizens in his audience, lists two specific ones: that the gargoyles might attack them while they sleep and that they might kidnap their children. Recently, I found myself realizing something about these fears. Gargoyles obviously fear humans attacking them while they are in their stone sleep, and Demona believed in "The Reckoning" that Princess Katharine and the Magus had kidnapped the eggs. So, were you deliberately going for a notion of "humans and gargoyles fear each other for parallel reasons" when you wrote this scene, or am I just reading too much into it?
2. My new guesses for the 7 Arthurian survivors:
a. King Arthur
b. Merlin
c. The Lady of the Lake (so far, the obvious ones :)
d. Sir Percival
e. The Grail Damsel (since she's got a different name in practically every version of the Arthurian/Grail legends, I figured I'd better just put down her position to make it clearer whom I meant)
f. Morgan le Fay
g. Nimue
3. One of the most intriguing aspects of the gargoyles in the series, to me, was their initial lack of personal names, something that worked particularly well with me since it made them seem even more "their own unique culture" (I particularly liked the scene where Hudson was asking why humans have to name everything in "Awakening Part Three"). What inspired you and the other members of the production team to come up with this idea?
Greg responds...
Hey Todd,
1. I don't think you're reading too much in, but you need to keep in mind that I was breathing gargoyles at the time. It filled my thoughts. Whether I was conscious of those specifics parallels, doesn't answer whether they were intentional or not. Does that help?
2. We're up to eight now. Plus guesses need to be on their own post. Note: it's best to be as specific as possible. Bet hedging is no way to win a silly contest.
3. Originally, desperation. We had a hell of a time getting names approved. Coming up with a rationale for waiting until the twentieth century to name most of our characters was an inspiration I was grateful my boss went for. Fortunately, he saw that it solved all our problems. Gave us young characters with names that had a more contemporary, yet fun feel. Allowed Goliath to stand out from the crowd more. Made Demona's name less silly and more chilling. Etc. Making Gargoyles a unique culture was the solution to a difficult problem. One of the many things, that just made the show feel "right".
Karen writes...
Hiya! First of all i'd like to say that you have made an excellent series, congrats on the great work. Ok...I'm a first-timer but I have read the archives so I'll be careful not to ask anything that I can remember already being asked.
1) Why is it that it took Goliath so long to finally except Angela as his daughter but it didn't take Demona very long at all? infact, it seemed as though she had completely excepted Angela as hers, not even asking about the other members of the rookery. Any reason for this?
2) If you had to pick one, which would you say is the most truly Evil villain on the show? (The one who is bad merely to see people suffer or something)
3) Since what biologic ages would you say that Goliath and Demona were a couple?
Well.. although I've been itchin' to do this for so long but wasn't able to because it had been down, I can't remember any of the questions I had lined up... oh well.. I'll save them for another day i suppose.
Greg responds...
Now to answer my first question of ASK GREG - The Next Generation.
Hi Karen,
1. Goliath was very concerned about playing favorites. Angela, to his mind, was way too concerned about him as her BIOLOGICAL father. To his upbringing, that showed bad taste. Of course, she was raised differently. Once Diane Maza pointed out to Goliath that Angela was the only daughter in the vicinity, Goliath lept at the chance to be her dad. It's not that he didn't love her, but he was a novice father and he didn't want to screw up.
Demona's motivations, as usual, were more complicated. Assuming Sevarius filled her in about Angela sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Demona had time to plan an "attack" on her daughter, or at least on her daughter's loyalties. As usual, Demona is her own worst enemy. She initially saw Angela as an opportunity, not a child. By the time she realized how important Angela truly was to her, it was all but too late.
2. Gee... Did we have any of those? I guess Hyena, Jackal and Wolf sorta qualify. Proteus was pretty nasty. Yeah. Maybe Proteus.
3. Don't have my timeline here with me, so I can't pin it down exactly. But by 971 they were already falling for each other, so that should give you an idea...
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