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Aaron writes...
The Magus' name. Please, please, please, please, tell me the Magus' given name.
You're going to go all Xellos on me and say "That... is a secret.", I just know it.
Greg responds...
Who's Xellos?
Bengali writes...
1.What is Demonas opinion of Gruoch?
Greg responds...
1. I think they kept their distance from each other, generally. No animosity. But I don't see them as friendly. Of course, after it went bad, they hated each other.
Bengali writes...
1.What is Demonas opinion of Luoch?, after all, he was a major supporter of her clan and was outraged when Bodhe suggested that Macbeth betray Demonas clan.
Greg responds...
I think she liked him during those 17 golden years. Or at any rate, liked him well enough. Probably wouldn't admit it, but liked him.
After it all went bad, I think he became just another human to her. But by then she was fleeing Scotland. And he didn't have long for the world.
Man Mountain writes...
If you ever find the time, do you think you could could continue "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."? I believe we have four parts, but there is obviously more. I know everyone who visits this place would appreciate it. Thanks again, and if you can't, just keep it in mind =)
Greg responds...
I'd like to continue it too. But I've lost considerable momentum, and we've got such a backlog here (which I'm trying to get through in between real work, etc.) that I'm not exactly sure when I'll get to it. But keep asking. One of these days, I'll be inspired, and a little push won't hurt.
Chapter XI: "Long Way To Morning"
"Long Way To Morning" This was my title, based on an idea I'd had from way early in the development of the series. It was always obvious to me that the fact that the gargs turned to vulnerable stone at sunrise, gave the series a built-in ticking clock that added tension. But given the gargoyles' healing factor (to borrow a Wolverine term) it occured to me early on that there might come a time when sunrise couldn't come fast enough. That was the origin of this episode and the title. (I think I may have even mentioned the scenario in the Series' Writers' Bible.)
The other obvious purpose of the episode was to give Hudson a showcase episode to equal the Trio tryptich. As I've mentioned before, Gargoyles was originally developed as a comic series, and one of the funny little gargoyles in that show was "Ralph", a very domestic couch potato Gargoyle who loved to stay at home and watch T.V. Hudson developed out of Ralph, but he spent much of the first few episodes "Guarding the castle" (or the clock tower). We'd given him some great action in AWAKENING. But we still felt a major need to UN-RALPH him.
I wanted to deal with his age as realistically as possible. To have him doubt himself, maybe even be aware of his limitations, but then have him prove to himself that he still had something to contribute. I think we basically succeed in that here.
But this ep afforded us other opportunities as well. Opportunities to explore Wyvern backstory in our parallel flashback story:
--We find out definitively that Hudson WAS the leader of the clan and that Goliath was his second. We also get to see the baton get passed.
--We learn how Hudson was blinded in one eye.
--We meet Prince Malcolm and get a sense of how Princess Katharine became the bitch she was at the start of "Awakening". I think this was very important in paving the way for her role in the "Avalon" tryptich. By the end of "Awakening", she's remorseful and has seen the error of her ways, but it doesn't change how badly she acted. But this episode reveals how and why her antipathy toward Gargoyles was created. It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it helps to explain it enough so that we can buy her as a heroine when we next see her. Malcolm doesn't come off as well. I wanted to present how easily casual thoughtless words could be hurtful, and even lead to tragic consequences. My daughter Erin (age 5 1/2) had seen this episode at least once before. But this time, that aspect of Malcolm's inadvertent damage and Katharine's mistaken blame really grabbed her attention. The injustice of it really troubled her. Which is exactly the response I was looking for. (My kids are so cool. She also noticed Hudson's eye getting injured, and commented on how smart Hudson was to jump off into the waterfall.)
--I love the subtle changes that Jeff, Keith and Marina made in their voices when playing the young Magus, Goliath and Demona. It's interesting to see Demona's progression in hindsight from "Vows" to "Long Way" to "Awakening, Part One" to "City of Stone" to the present day. She really is a fascinating character, if I do say so myself. Here, you see her ambition. But no villainy. Of course, it made for a nice counterpoint with her vicious murderous tendencies in the present day story.
--Throughout production of this episode, I had to keep pointing out to the artists, etc., that the flashbacks all had a point of view, i.e. Hudson's. That Demona and Goliath's "private conversations" could NOT be as private as they thought. Hudson had to know what they were saying about him. Both because it further eroded his confidence in both the past and present (the true demon he had to overcome) and because if he didn't hear those conversations it would be cheating to include them in HIS dreams and flashbacks.
--We also intro'd the ARCHMAGE. A one-shot villain if I ever saw one, except that David Warner was so amazing, I knew I had to bring the character back. When he falls into the chasm, you can just here the Phoenix Gate exploding open down there. (Of course, to some people that sounded like him hitting bottom. Their mistake.)
Continuity:
Brooklyn still has it in for D. Broadway is now Ultra-Protective of Elisa. Hudson has superior tracking skills in the past and the present.
And Demona has clearly focused her hatred on Elisa. (Who, by the way, loses her second gun of the series.) It was important for these early episodes that we fool Demona into thinking that Elisa was dead. Otherwise, how else do we explain why she doesn't just kill her.
Demona at the end, uses her cannon as a club. This was designed to be ambiguous. Did Hudson's sword damage the weapon? Or was Demona just so furious that she wanted the satisfaction of cudgeling the old guy to death? Yeah, it was designed to be ambiguous, but no one ever EVER thought that the gun was damaged. They all assumed Demona just lost it. Which is probably true.
Speaking of that Waterfall thing, that image was important retro-pipe for Hunter's Moon, Part Three. (More on that in 54 chapters.)
Animation-wise, I just wish Demona hadn't come off as such a lousy shot.
I love Hudson and Goliath's last exchange. Goliath assures Hudson that he still has "Years of fighting left". Hudson, glad to be of use, is still less than thrilled at the prospect. It's a great wry beat, but it was also important to me to point out that no rational person would wish to fight like that forever. The gargs, including Hudson, fight the good fight because they have to, because it is their duty, part of their natural protective instincts. But none of them WANT to fight.
As usual, I'd like to encourage responses to this episode here at ASK GREG, particularly how you responded to viewing this for the first time.
Jackal's Love writes...
G'day Greg,
I was just wondering, is Hakon from Gargoyles in any way connected to the Norwegian king Håkon, Harald Finehair's son? From what I've read, I have a faint idea that Håkon was around in the late 900's, but I'm not sure, I'd have to research it more. Anyway, thank you for your time.
Greg responds...
I'd have to research it more too.
Michael Norton writes...
Did you have any plans to incorporate any of the elements from Beowulf into the series?
Greg responds...
Yes. Like I said, eventually, everything.
Alan "Ordell" Coleman writes...
You were once asked when Castle Wyvern was built, and your response was "which time?" My question is: Is there an interesting story behind one of the falls of Castle Wyvern? Could you mention anything more about the story here? Would we of seen this fall and rebuilding in the proposed Dark Ages spin-off? Thanks (and yes, I realize that's more than one question...)
Greg responds...
I'd say there are interesting stories behind every fall and rebuild. DARK AGES would have focused on the final rebuilding (unless you count Xanatos placing the thing on the Eyrie as the final rebuild).
The final "fall" you've already seen in AWAKENING.
Aris Katsaris writes...
I don't believe you'll answer who created the huge structures beneath Wyvern: so I'll ask a more vague question: Were the builders humans? (I'm talking mainly about the glowing huge structures we saw in "Shadows of the Past", in case there are more structures down there...)
Greg responds...
Humans were involved.
Kalara of the Land of Athiria writes...
Mr. Weisman,
In your mind do you think dragons are evil or good? In the course of the show there are several references to these fantasy creatures. In the Gargoyles world are there any good dragons or only evil ones. Because in the episode "Pendragon" the stone dragon seems to be bad. It was only a stone dragon. However, is there a race of dragons like gargoyle or are they only a species of fantasty creatures?
Greg responds...
The stone dragon in "Pendragon" was a magical construct. Or at any rate it was brought to a semblance of life by magic. It wasn't truly alive. And I don't consider it a true dragon. Nor do I consider it evil. It was "programmed" to perform a specific function. To test for the one true king.
I'm not going to confirm or deny the existance of real dragons in the gargoyles universe, but if you've watched the series, you'll know thematically that I would never define an entire species, gargoyle, fae, human or dragons (if there are dragons) as either good or evil. To quote Goliath, "There is good and evil in all of us, human and gargoyle alike."
Nothing is one thing. Let alone an entire species.
LSZ writes...
Dear Greg, some questions on the First First Race:
1) What was the nature of this ancient, pre-Gargoyle race? Organic like humanity? also organic but symbiotic with nature like the Gargates? MAgical like the fae?
2) Could you hint on why this race died out? Just roughly..war, disease, etc?
3) Does the arrival of the Gargoyles or Fae have anything to do with the passing of this race?
4) Is this race actually dead or gone away?
Greg responds...
1. I'm not sure how to answer this without giving too much away. Which probably gives too much away right there.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Dead.
Lawrence Stone writes...
In the Dark Ages would Demona and Desdemona be good friends?
Greg responds...
Yes. Sisters.
Darkling writes...
Hi Greg,
I just read the post where you said the long term chances for getting a Gargoyles series back on the air were 'good to very good'. Since you've worked on CGI shows now, do you think a future Gargoyles show would benefit from being CGI, or would you prefer traditional animation?
Greg responds...
It would depend on the show.
I think G2158 would be perfect for CGI. But I'd hate to do Dark Ages in CGI, though maybe not for the reasons you think.
kjay writes...
Dear Greg,
1. How long ago did Gargoyles started helping humans? Did
it started before 900 A.D? If so why aren't there pictures/paintings of Gargoyles on anicent human artifacts or whatever(ex. cave paintings, egyptian art)?
thanks
Greg responds...
Who says there aren't?
Aris Katsaris writes...
In the gargoyles bible for the first season you had made mention of the existence of a 'very wise man' who first made an alliance with gargoyles building his castle of a gargoyle rookery and who ushered in the golden age of gargoyle-human relations...
Is this still how you picture it happening? The existence of a specific 'very wise man' was intriguing to me - is he just a generic figure, or someone whose name we would recognize? (I have my own idea on the subject ofcourse but I refrain from suggesting it in case it's considered a story-idea)
Greg responds...
I was being generic in the bible on purpose to simplify things. Honestly, I don't think I ever really thought there was just one person who did that. The world was too big a place and there wasn't any internet back then to facilitate communication. So that "wise man" was a place holder in my mind for a number of intelligent humans and gargoyles who made multiple alliances over multiple centuries in multiple places.
One such alliance of "wise men" was the alliance formed between Hudson and Malcolm, which was brokered by Robbie.
Another alliance was that formed between Xanatos and Demona, brokered by Owen, with a little help from Brooklyn, Mary and Finella behind the scenes.
Catwoman writes...
It is me again. What was the name of the Captian of the guard of Castle Wyvern, and why was he more kind and respectful to the Gargoyles than everyone else? It seemed as though he was closer to them than the humans.
Greg responds...
I think by now the Captain's first name is fairly obvious to anyone who has read the old archives. But because that may still be a mystery to a few people here's a
SPOILER WARNING
The Captain's first name is Robbie. And he was the peasant and childhood friend of Prince Malcolm.
(By the way, Robbie was my original name for Tom a.k.a. the Guardian. Michael Reaves changed the name to Tom in his script for Awakening, Part One. I never knew why. But that's why I decided to use the name for the Captain in my unfinished "fan fiction" A TALE OF THREE BROTHERS, or whatever it was called.)
Robbie had a tough young life spent mostly in service to the upper class. His reward was ridicule -- generally over his gargoylesque appearance. He identified with Goliath and the Gargoyles.
Catwoman writes...
Dear Greg,
Who was it that named Goliath, and when was he given a name?
Greg responds...
Are you asking about within the world of the show or in our Disney offices?
If the former, I think the answer to that is Prince Malcolm around 971 A.D.
If the latter, I think I named Goliath in 1992 or '93. But I'm not sure.
Andrea "Elisa Maza" Ivanovs writes...
Hi Greg,
Hope you're alright and survived the GWT well. ;)
Here's my question: it's about the aging of Gargoyles. We all know they live longer than humans, but e.g. in "Awakening", the whole Clan Wyvern is seen, but there's no Gargoyles as old as Goliath and Angela look in "Grief". Do they die fighting before they get that old, or do they never after all?
Thank you for your time!
Greg responds...
In the Dark Ages, it was rare that a gargoyle lived into old age. It was a violent time. But also, lets remember that Wyvern had a clan of about 40 gargoyles and beasts. We didn't get to see them all. We barely saw a quarter of them.
Zeliard writes...
Hi mr. Weisman. Here's one quickie:
For what reason the Archmage was banished?
Thank you for your time.
Greg responds...
Attempted treason.
Aaron writes...
Forgive me if this has been answered before, but does the Magus have a name or is he just generally known by his title?
Greg responds...
Both.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
In "Long Way to Morning" a young Demona/Angel gasped at a carving of a man (I'm guessing the Archmage) implaing a gargoyle that looks suspiciously like her. What does this represent?
Greg responds...
To some extent you've answered your own question, but there are layers beneath layers at Wyvern. I haven't scratched the surface.
Airwalker writes...
It's my understanding that you pitched both DARK AGES and GARGOYLES 2158 to CBS and that then CBS did away with it's Saturday Morning schedule and staff thus killing off further interest in either shows. But now that CBS has decided to restore animated shows to it's Saturday Morning schedule, do you think it might be possible to re-pitch those two shows to them?
Greg responds...
I never pitched G2158 to CBS, because everyone I knew there was booted before I got the chance.
And none of them are back, so the idea that the executives (Judy Price, specifically) who asked to see G2158 would now be interested again, since policy has changed somewhat (though not exactly as you have described it above) doesn't follow. Judy is still gone. Disney still owns Gargoyles and now they own ABC. So I don't see Gargoyles appearing on another network anytime soon.
Airwalker writes...
I've heard that when you pitched DARK AGES to CBS they suggested instead pitching a future based series instead. Was that the first time you started to think about GARGOYLES 2158 or did you previously have a developed idea of what the Gargoyles future would be like?
Greg responds...
I can't deny that CBS' suggestion was the first time I really DEDICATED thought to a specific future. (It was after that conversation, that I nailed down 2158 as the year of the setting for example.) But some of the material that I had planned for the show, had already been racing around in my head. The Nokkar stuff in particular. The Demona stuff. The children of Angela and Broadway.
But it was more amorphous, timeline-wise.
Airwalker writes...
In the 'ONCE UPON A TIME...' segments you've done, we've seen why Malcolm would need to ally himself with a Gargoyle clan. But why would Hudson want to ally himself with Malcolm?
Greg responds...
Patience, grasshopper....
Airwalker writes...
You mentioned that in DARK AGES Demona would be known as Angel and that the Coldtrio would be known as Othello, Desdemona, and Iago. But what would Hudson's mate be know as?
Greg responds...
Demona would be known as Angel, but I had not (and have not) decided for sure what the Coldtrio would be known as. Using the Othello/Desdemona/Iago names has always made life easier as behind-the-scenes shorthand, but I still don't know whether I'd use them "in story".
Thus any decision on what to call Hudson's mate, would be predicated on what I was doing with the whole name question. Which is to say, I haven't decided if she has any name at all, let alone what it is.
Airwalker writes...
I've heard from Gathering Reports on the DARK AGES presentation you gave that this spin-off's main characters would be mainly limited to Goliath, Hudson, The Trio, The Coldtrio, Prince Malcolm, The Archmage and Demona who would be known as "Angel". But I haven't heard any mention at all of Hudson's mate. WOuldn't she have been a major character in at least the first season of DARK AGES?
Greg responds...
The word I'd argue with is "limited".
Let me put it this way, the Dark Ages pitch clearly shows Hudson as the lead character, with Goliath, "Angel" and Prince Malcolm playing important supporting rolls.
Iago and the Archmage are presented as villains. Othello, Desdemona and the trio are given cameos.
But I certainly never said that the series would be limited to these characters.
As to Hudson's mate, she would certainly appear -- in flashback at least. heh heh heh
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
At the first Gathering you had the BAD GUYS Leica reel, at 98 you had the NEW OLYMPIANS pitch, this year it was Dark Ages. What else can we expect for Gatherings in the future?
Greg responds...
That would be telling.
Airwalker writes...
In VOWS did Iago still have an allience of sort with the Archmage?
Greg responds...
You mean at that time? Yes. I think so.
Durax writes...
Will you continue the story of the three brothers sometime soon? (When we last left the tale Hudson was to make an appearance, if I recall correctly)
Greg responds...
Maybe after I catch up with the rest of the questions here. (It feels like August 24th has been going on forever.)
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
At the Gathering you showed the Dark Ages pitch showing that Iago would've been allied with the Archmage. We know that Demona was his apprentace, but what does Iago have to offer him?
Greg responds...
Cunning.
Airwalker writes...
How did you get Tom Wilson and Sheena Easten for the show? Did they come to you, did you call them?
Greg responds...
Tom auditioned for one or more of the Trio. He wasn't right, but I really liked him, and I suggested him to Jamie Thomason when we created Matt.
I am now a HUGE Tom Wilson fan. I created the role of Pete Costas in MAX STEEL with Tom in mind. (Originally it was a bigger role, but the WB cut it back. He's still great in it though.) And I think the work he's doing on NBC's FREAKS & GEEKS is brilliant. He does so much with so little. Taking a cliche that we've seen a hundred times before (remember Robert Picardo in THE WONDER YEARS) and investing it with so much humanity. I can't tell you how great I think he is. Someone should really give this guy his own live action show.
As for Sheena, she was my original choice for Princess Katharine. She wasn't available and Kath Soucie who I had never worked with before was terrific. But Sheena was always in my head to give something to. Finella seemed a great opportunity. So we brought her in. She was great. So we brought her back. She was astounding as Molly/Banshee, so we brought her back again. I was prepared to build the entire BAD GUYS series around her and Jim Cummings (with some help from Jeff Bennett, Jim Belushi and William Devane) but I couldn't sell it. I tried to cast her in as Molly McGrath in Max Steel, but again she wasn't available.
But I'd work with either Tom or Sheena again, anyday.
Zeliard writes...
Naming stuff.
1.What is the real name of the Archmage?
2.Who named Goliath?
3.We know Bruno is the leader of the Commando. Do you have names for the rest of the Commandoes?
Greg responds...
1. Don't know.
2. Prince Malcolm.
3. Nope.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Would you accept with the assessment that the portrayal of Bodhe throughout 'City of Stone' was that of a spineless coward? (doesn't come to his friend's or even young daughter's aid - gives Gruoch to Gillecomgain - suggests that Macbeth surrenders - suggest that he murders child Canmore) and so on...
Greg responds...
I had a lot of contempt for Bodhe. Which may be unfair. Who knows what the historical Bodhe was like? I may have slandered him worse than Shakespeare slandered Macbeth.
But when you just now (back in July) called him a spineless coward, it made me balk. And the reason is that I just saw City, Part IV again recently. (The first episode my grandmother ever saw. All she kept talking about was how attractive Macbeth was.) And Bodhe has a moment when he gives Macbeth's crown to Luach... It suggests to me that maybe late (too late) in life, Bodhe had a change of heart. I like to think that he died a good death, by his grandson's side, fighting for kith, kin and country. (I know. I'm a sap. But I just hate two dimensional characters.)
Heather E."Hudson" Rice writes...
Hey Greg,
Nice of you to remember me, during yer all-night "rant" session...Anyho, here's my questions:
1) What year did Hudson hatch?
2) When exactly was Castle Wyvern built? Demona mentioned,
"That these cliffs were our homes, long before the Humans'"
3)How many eggs can a female Gargoyle lay, at one time?
4) When a female Gargoyle goes into "heat", does she give
off a scent, or something?
5) AND, FINALLY, just where did Thom get his tattoo???
(HINT,HINT,HINT...)
Greg responds...
1. 878 A.D.
2. Which time?
3. One.
4. I'm sure she does.
5. Los Angeles... (And I don't have a clue what you're hinting about.)
Also, I should have blown off questions 3-5, cause they're on different topics. But they were short, so you got lucky.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
Hi Greg, I got another question here.
Did the Archmage ever come into conflict with Roman Catholic Church? One would get the feeling that practicing the black arts would get him burnt at the stake or at least ex-communicated.
Greg responds...
It's certainly possible, but keep in mind he was largely operating some distance from where the Church's worldly power held much sway.
Aris Katsaris writes...
How the heck was castle Wyvern built in as few as four years? (Since construction hadn't started in 971 but it was fully built in 975)
Greg responds...
Long story, but there were ruins, a foundation, lots of help from gargoyles and the Arch-Mage, etc. Lots can happen in four years.
Bennett Salinger writes...
Are you planning on writing any more of "Once upon a time there were three brothers"?
If so; Could you do so relatively soon?
Greg responds...
Yes, someday...
But not now. I'm totally swamped.
See my next rambling...
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg! Will you please tell us: 1) the story behind how the Pheonix Gate ended up in Elena's dowry, and/or 2) The identity of the 5th UltraPack member?
Greg responds...
1. No. Not in the mood.
2. As this question is on a completely separate topic, you'll have to resubmit it as a separate post.
Better luck next time.
Lawrence Stone writes...
Thanks Greg for ansering my quistions
If the Dark ages was ever made would we see alot of Hudson's rookery mates. And Goliaths and Demonas rookery sibblings and also the trio rookery sibblings. And also would some of them been some of the main chacters?
Greg responds...
Mates, plural?
Goliath, Demona, Desdemona, Iago and Othello would all have been major characters. Along with Hudson.
The Trio would have been supporting character. I'm not saying we wouldn't have seen more of their siblings, but that age group would not have been the focus.
I'm sure we'd have met other gargoyles eventually.
*The Bride of Ringo* writes...
Oops.. I thought of another one.. hee hee ;-)
Ok... now, we know that in 994, the Wyvern Clan was almost completely wiped out (with the exception of Goliath, Demona, etc.), and you said that Demona lead a clan of stragglers from other broken Scotish clans. I also remember someone asking 'Approximately how many gargoyles are alive today?" and you said about 400 and there are gargoyles all over the world. Ok.. now for the actual question, if there are gargoyles all over the world in the past as well as the present, what happened to them? We know the Wyvern clan was destroyed, but that doesn't really explain what happened to the gargoyles in another part of the world. Was there like a disease that occured that swept over all the world that decimated their race (sort of like the plauge did in Europe to humans)? Or were most of the clans at one point betrayed the way the Wyvern clan was, or some other reason?
Greg responds...
Most were destroyed by humans.
Karen writes...
Hiya! First of all i'd like to say that you have made an excellent series, congrats on the great work. Ok...I'm a first-timer but I have read the archives so I'll be careful not to ask anything that I can remember already being asked.
1) Why is it that it took Goliath so long to finally except Angela as his daughter but it didn't take Demona very long at all? infact, it seemed as though she had completely excepted Angela as hers, not even asking about the other members of the rookery. Any reason for this?
2) If you had to pick one, which would you say is the most truly Evil villain on the show? (The one who is bad merely to see people suffer or something)
3) Since what biologic ages would you say that Goliath and Demona were a couple?
Well.. although I've been itchin' to do this for so long but wasn't able to because it had been down, I can't remember any of the questions I had lined up... oh well.. I'll save them for another day i suppose.
Greg responds...
Now to answer my first question of ASK GREG - The Next Generation.
Hi Karen,
1. Goliath was very concerned about playing favorites. Angela, to his mind, was way too concerned about him as her BIOLOGICAL father. To his upbringing, that showed bad taste. Of course, she was raised differently. Once Diane Maza pointed out to Goliath that Angela was the only daughter in the vicinity, Goliath lept at the chance to be her dad. It's not that he didn't love her, but he was a novice father and he didn't want to screw up.
Demona's motivations, as usual, were more complicated. Assuming Sevarius filled her in about Angela sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Demona had time to plan an "attack" on her daughter, or at least on her daughter's loyalties. As usual, Demona is her own worst enemy. She initially saw Angela as an opportunity, not a child. By the time she realized how important Angela truly was to her, it was all but too late.
2. Gee... Did we have any of those? I guess Hyena, Jackal and Wolf sorta qualify. Proteus was pretty nasty. Yeah. Maybe Proteus.
3. Don't have my timeline here with me, so I can't pin it down exactly. But by 971 they were already falling for each other, so that should give you an idea...
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