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Who leads the Quarrymen in 2198? Castaway's descendents?
What are Dingo and Robyn's descendents doing?
Stuff.
What is the Order of the Guardian? Who started it?
Clan Ishimura, with some help from various individuals including Tom.
in Heritage, grandmother states that Nick's dad and grand dad and so on, had to fight Raven on the volcano. I don't think Ravin is keeping that low of a profile by trying to take the Island every generation. Were their fights more of a meditative thing?
Also, why does raven wan't the island so bad?
I just answered your last question.
And I'm not going to go into specific detail on your first questions. Battles were battled.
How much has Owen/Puck matured by 2198? A lot?
Owen is. And Puck's not around.
I need 2 gargoyles for my daughters production number at dance. Either to buy or rent. I need them by Monday the latest, 3-4 feet high each. Could you help me???
No.
I'm not even reading this until July 2nd.
And we don't sell or rent gargoyles at this site. Goliath might take offense.
(I'm guessing this person will never read this response.)
I noticed in your disclaimer that there's a spelling mistake in the word Television, where it's supposed to say: "...copyrighted by Buena Visa Television" you accidentally wrote television as "televiion". Just thought I'd make you aware of this.
Thank you. I'm again going to lay that one on Gore. (Though it's possible it was me.) Again, I've been aware of the typos for awhile. But I don't have any means of fixing them.
Well, it's certainly a relief to have the Gargoyles 2198 contest finally over with; I'm amazed that it took us so long to get the last two answers right. Well, now for a few comments on "Gargoyles 2198"'s overall description.
A number of elements in it certainly surprised me. For example, while I had suspected for a long while that the Space-Spawn would be playing a major role in the spin-off, I hadn't expected that it would open with them actually conquering the planet. Likewise, I was certainly surprised at the reason for Owen being unable to become Puck in the series (Alex being in Space-Spawn captivity), though it did make sense (I'd had my own speculations for the reason for the "block on Puck" before the contest began, though I won't mention them here because of the rules - suffice it to say that none of them involved Alex being held prisoner by anybody).
Another element in the spin-off was one which I'd perhaps "half-anticipated", and which did strike me as logical, but which I hadn't been seriously expecting in "Gargoyles 2198"; the notion of Samson and Delilah working together. Now, before the contest had come out, I'd been speculating for some time over whether Samson would have some connection with Delilah - given their names, it would be almost impossible not to have something like that happening - but never gave it any serious thought since I obviously didn't seriously believe that the original Delilah whom we met in "The Reckoning" would still be around at the time of the spin-off (even when it was "Gargoyles 2158" rather than "Gargoyles 2198"). Of course, I hadn't counted on the possibility of a namesake descendant, but it certainly struck me as a good solution.
And I've got to admit, you found a way to have the Illuminati stoop to a new low in the spin-off; they certainly were shady even in the original series (deals with organized crime, the Hotel Cabal, supporting the Quarrymen), but now they've become out-and-out quislings.
All in all, the spin-off certainly looks promising. I don't know if you'll ever get it made, but it should be interesting.
Questions follow in a separate post.
Thanks. I'm glad it intrigued you. I know you're more of a fantasy/myth guy then a Science Fiction Guy. Hopefully the show would still have a balance of both. But by definition that balance would lead more toward tech in this one.
Now there's a HUGE difference between 994 Scotland and 1994 U.S. Wouldn't the differences in vocabulary, word usage, etc. between these times and places reflect that? If Goliath learned to read and write in 994 Scotland then how was it that he awoke in Manhattan seemingly capable of reading and comprehending modern day American literature? Did he somehow work on his literacy skills outside the series or what? I figured that, as the ultimate all-knowing diety of the gargoyle universe, you would know this.
I do know this. You would too if you checked the archives.
Hi Greg,
YEESSS!!! The contest is over! Strike! Ok, so let me think for a question...
How will the future in 2198 look like? Dark (like in Blade Runner) or the shiny-super-hero-future with no wars, no deseases etc.?
Ok, thank you for awnsering. Hope you will read this before the Gathering ( Sorry, can't come :-(. The 23 June is my birthday, and to fly from Berlin to LA is a toooo big birthday present :-((((() Anyway, hope you have, or had, some fun there. Greet Jonathan Frakes from me ;-)
CU, John
Jonathan was in Israel during the Gathering, so I didn't see him.
The future looked bright in March of 2198. Not perfect, but pretty shiny. With a lot preserved intentionally from nature and older periods.
Things took a dark turn with the arrival of the Space-Spawn.
What is the story behind the "Better than Barney" thing?
---Ytt
It's a long story. A Gathering Story. I just told it, like five times, last weekend. Bit burned out on it now.
Ask me some other time. Or come to G2002.
(But the short answer is that it's something that Bill Faggerbakke once said in defense of the series.)
The show states that gargoyles can withstand very cold tempretures, but how about hot? I'm asking cause Goliath and co fly close to the Magma in two volcanos and seems fine. BTW, can volcanos be like that and not be active?
On Avalon they can. I'm not an expert otherwise. But I also never said they were NOT active.
Gargoyles raised in Scotland don't do quite as well in the heat. But they are generally pretty tough cookies. They can take most anything for brief periods of time.
Hi Greg. CrzyDemona revealed what she'd discovered when you invited her to the recording of one of the "Team Atlantis" episodes. So Fiona is a Canmore, and she'll have some kind of encounter/involvement with Demona in Paris? I'm wondering....
1a) Since Jon, Jason and Robyn's father died hunting Demona at Notre Dame, and Fiona was born in 1888, is Fiona a part of their branch of the Canmore family? b) What is her relation to the Canmore trio we know (I'm assuming the obvious, but I'd like confirmation).
2) Does this mean that the "Gargoyles" and "Atlantis" universes are one and the same?
Let's start with the fact that Crzy got in a bit of trouble for revealing what she did. She's lucky I love her so dearly.
The reason she got in a bit of trouble, is because I GOT IN A BIT OF TROUBLE. Team Atlantis is coming out in the fall of 2002. We are way jumping the gun by talking about it now.
Having said that, both Tad Stones (the Executive Producer of Team Atlantis) and Greg Guler (the character designer of Team Atlantis) kind of went on about the show at the Gathering. So now I'm in less trouble. But I'm reluctant to reveal very much more before G2002, when Tad has agreed to throw all of us a rather large bone.
But for now, I'm not going to reveal anything else that's in the episode.
Fortunately for you Vash, you've asked questions that aren't answered in the episode.
1. Fiona is the twin sister of Jason, Robyn and Jon's grandfather. That is, she's their great aunt. Is that the obvious answer you were assuming?
2. No. But they overlap in Paris in 1920.
By the way, Vash, it was fun seeing you at the Gathering. :)
1.How could the Space-Spawn be "born amidst the fury of an exploding star" I'd think thats impossible considering the heat and radiation?
2.Where and when was the exploding star?
1. It's wonderful that you're so confident given the incredibly small amount of information that you have about them.
2. In space. Some time ago.
How close is Nokkar's people to First One status?
I don't know what that means.
Compared to the territory held by Nokkar's people is the territory held by the Space-Spawn larger or smaller?
When?
1.How old is the Space-Spawn race?
2.What is their name for themselves?
3.Did you plan to introduce specific members of the Space-Spawn?
4.Are they as long lived as Nokkar?
1. Old enough.
2. Space-Spawn.
3. Yes.
4. Individually? No.
just watched "The Hound of Ulster", and (arn't you surprised?) i had some questions:
1. when the Banche saved Goliath, Elisa, and Angela from drowning in the bog, how did she do it? did she transport them to that chamber, or was that chamber directly below the bog or what?
2. How old is Rory? and how old is Molly? Rory said he was out of school and i'm asuming he means high school... so is he, 19? 20?
3. after the episode, what and how much did Rory tell his father? everything?
and as Gargoyles is known for its foreshadowing:
4. when Goliath said, "A whole clan of gargoyles could not batter down these walls!" were you thinking of the Irish garg clan you've said existed being in that same chamber ever?
5. Rory said, "The Hound of Ulster? Sure, and dwarves made me shoes..." well, the hound turned out to exist, so DID dwarves make Rory's shoes? :)
1. She transported them.
2. I don't have that information with me at this time. But he's under 20 in that episode.
3. I'm not committing to that right now.
4. Ditto.
5. Not the ones he was wearing at that moment. But the Nike's he had back in his closet.
how on earth did you can you draw gargoles that good the only good thing i can draw is anime charaters.
I can't draw worth a damn. Hopefully, you all think I can write though.
Greg;
I was reading your MEMO about "The Silver Falcon." fro the archives...
I got to thinking... This type of epidode wouldn't have worked with Brooklyn or even Lexington... these type of characters almost need to have other gargoyles around. You couldn't ahve a hole epidose of only Brooklyn or only Lexington. Lexington and brooklyn don't have human connections like Broadway. He shot Elisa. This brought them a bit closer than the others.
Do you agree or dissagree?
I agree that Broadway shooting Elisa brought the two of them closer together. (Though they were already close.)
But otherwise, I disagree. Either Brooklyn or Lex could carry an episode on their own. I think we more or less proved that with Temptation and Thrill of the Hunt.
I know other characters were involved. But Lex and Brooklyn each carried those shows.
Hey again! Here's a Gargoyle health q.
1. Back in April, someone asked about the chance of Gargoyles getting viral diseases. So, what about mental disorders, birth defects and genetic diseases?
2. This probably falls under genetic diseases, but what about cancer? How would it affect them?
3. Now, here's probably a silly one. It sounds like one that might have been asked, but it's been awhile since I had the free time to check the archives. So, what would happen if a gargoyle lost a limb?
OK, enough with the morbid thaughts.
1. Possible, I suppose. But not common.
2. They have a strong healing factor that tends to preclude cancer.
3. Gone.
Greg,
I have a few questions about Brooklyn and Katana's relationship.
1) How long are they mated before Nashville and Tachi come along?
2) How long did they know each other before they fell in love?
3)Given the traditionalistic upbringing that Bushido would offer would she at first find Brooklyn to be a fool?
1. I don't have that info with me at the moment.
2. Depends on how you define "fell in love".
3. There's conflict. I once described their relationship as Sam & Diane-esque. No one got that, but the intellectual crowd here did understand a Beatrice & Benedick reference. Made me feel old and young, simultaneously.
Hey Greg,
Well, either I can't find my answered questions(there are a lot)or I just asked them in a way that wasn't appropriate. Oh well. Anyway, if you ever get to do gargoyles again would you use Timedancer or would you maybe use a different idea if a better one surfaced? Timedancer is good, but I wouldn't put Brooklyn with someone so different. Maybe, but then again; you are the one writing the shows not me.
Since I can't find my questions. Could you e-mail me at Alexlyons3@hotmail.com
I'm sorry, I don't respond with personal e-mails. Defeats the purpose of this forum.
I'm always open to using the best possible idea at my disposal at a given time. But I'm pretty sure that would include TimeDancer. I'm not sure what you mean by 'putting Brooklyn with someone so different'. You don't know enough about Katana to know how different or not she is.
Hi Greg, I just started watching gargoyles a few mo. ago so i'm not fully awear of ever thing that has happened so i was just wondering if you could ever see brooklyn getting a girl friend?
Yes. (Check out the TimeDancer Archive here at ASK GREG for more info on KATANA.)
Hi,
I just wanted to make a comment:
I think it was very creative and cool to make the cold trio's drama be closley paralleled to Shakespear's OTHELLO. Except for the few inconsistantsies (i.e. Othello-Colstone not being a commander like Othello, Goliath taking on Cassio's role, and the absence of a Rodrigo, and the whole bit with Othello's tissue) I thought evrything was played-out well and done correctly; Iago-coldsteele wasn't as "Machiavellian" as was Iago in the play, but he still had that same pure-evil aura, and Desdemona-Coldfire isn't as naive as Desdemona in the play. It would be neat just see the play done by the characters of the show.
Anyways just thought I'd say that since OTHELLO is one of my favorite plays and plot-lines (almost ranked next to HAMLET and MADAEM BOVARY in my book).
Oops, I lied, I do have a quesiton, nothing too difficult, though: What kind of music would you say the Manhatten clan would listen to? That just popped in my head; I don't know why :).
I don't know. Carl Johnson stuff mostly.
I'd love to use the Gargoyles characters to perform a whole variety of Shakespeare Plays. Othello's obvious. (Can you see Vinnie as Rodrigo?)
How would Macbeth react to the Canmore siblings? They are, after all, descendants of his arch-nemeses, and overall the family hasn't proven to be very honorable.
He'd not be fond of them.
In the "Gathering pt 1" Oberon reminds Titania "It is my law not to interfer in human affairs. Let the woman keep her child."
Then a minute later he says: "If it pleases you, you have my permission to take the child."
Xanatos: "It's alright, no one is going anywhere. It is the epiphany [sp?] in interfering in human affairs by taking a child from its parents. By your own law, you can't do this."
Oberon: "I've made up my mind."
Xanatos is right....So Oberon just broke his law by trying to take Alex whether he is of Fae blood or not. He would still be interfering in Fox and David's lives. Doesn't he realize that he made a big mistake concerning his law? Or is it just because he's the King and he can do whatever he wants?
That's your point of view. Not his. Not even mine necessarily. I'm not saying he was right about taking Alexander in any kind of moral sense. But I certainly see his point from a "law-interpretation" sense. Alex was a "Child of Oberon" (not literally). He therefore was not a mortal and not subject to the non-interference rule. Quite the contrary, Oberon had declared the Gathering. Alex was REQUIRED to attend by Oberon's law. Since he couldn't get there on his own power, Oberon was simply providing a taxi service. Giving them an hour -- monstrously cruel as it sounds to us -- seemed to him like a generous concession. After all, Alex was due in Avalon yesterday -- literally.
You can see the 'fairness' of his judgment in the way he deals with Fox. He could have insisted that she come too. Costing Xanatos both wife and child. But he ruled that Fox was "regrettably human". And thus he could not touch her. From his point of view he was being very fair.
And mentioning Oberon's earlier comment is specious. He didn't know who Alex was at the time.
Xanatos certainly, and obviously, has his point of view. But who is he to interpret Oberon's law relative to Oberon himself. Who had the backing of Titania by the way in said interpretation.
Who is Anubis's father Todd says it's Osiris (making him a bastard), but Roger Lancelyn Green says it's Set? So who exactly is he in the Gargoyles Universe?
Not going into that now. Mostly because I haven't done enough research recently to have made my decision.
Are the Children of Mab literally descended from Mab or is it a metaphor casting Mab as the ruler/parent and the fay as the kids?
Metaphor. Though Oberon is literally Mab's son.
Do Anubis's "life-and-death" powers extend to the Third Race? That is, is he (or someone who is his avatar a la Jackal) able to age or destroy any of the fay, the way that he can to humans and gargoyles?
Aging the Children is an oxymoron. Killing them is something else again.
What are the names of the clones clan?
thanks!
You mean the names of the clones or the name of their clan?
Anyway, as of 1996, when one might argue the Labyrinth Clan was founded, the cloned gargs included Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu, Burbank and Delilah. There were also Mutates down there: Talon, Maggie the Cat, Claw and an imprisoned Fang. And a number of homeless humans who had found a home beneath.
Thailog's also a clone, but he wasn't exactly part of this clan.
When you first had Xanatos and Owen mention the Emir in "The Edge", did you know that he'd feature in an episode in a prominent role at that time? Did you when you got to their mention of him in "Double Jeopardy"?
Edge - No.
DJ - I was beginning to suspect that everything would eventually be used.
Hey Mr. Weisman,
I just have one question that I've been thinking about. I know you created Gargoyles back in 1991, but how come it was three years before the series was put on T.V.? Surely it didn't take three years to write, animate, voice record, and edit/censor the first thirteen episodes did it? So what happened? Why'd it take three years from the time you created the series to the time it was put on T.V.?
We started creating the show in 1991. As a comedy-adventure. (Take a look at the "Original Development File" archive at ASK GREG.)
We failed to sell it to Michael Eisner. Then we tried again as an Action-Drama. We failed to sell it again.
We reworked the pitch and tried a third time. (The show didn't change this time, just the way we pitched it.) Third time was the charm. He bought off on it. And we went into production. But that process took about two years total. (We only got to meet with Eisner once every six months in those days.) That brings us to 1993. We then had ten months to produce the first thirteen episodes (on a sliding schedule). Which takes us to the fall of '94. Which is when we premeired.
(But what are you implying with the word "censor"?)
i have a question about the process of gargs turning to stone, i've noticed that they turn to stone differently at different times. sometimes they convert to stone all at once, sometimes they do this fast and sometimes they do it slowly, and sometimes they turn to stone from the ground up or from one direction to another. my question is, why do they turn to stone different ways? is it because of their mindset at dawn or is it just random? i've noticed that they turn to stone slowly from the ground up when they don't want to turn to stone, like when Goliath and Hudson were returning to Wyvern the night of the massacre, or when Goliath was told Elisa was shot, or when Broadway was caught in midair at dawn. in a way are they trying to to forstall the change to stone and this causes the change to happen in a different way? am i looking at this way too hard, i don't think i am, the stone changing process just seems slower and more "forced" when the gargs are in distress or don't want it to be dawn...
i think thats all i have to say...
Well, the obvious real world answer is that we're using artistic license all over the damn place.
But in the garg universe, I think you've answered your own question. If they don't want to change, they can fight it for a few seconds. Slow the process a bit. But just a bit.
Were all the characters drawn to resemble, in some way, the actors/actresses that voiced them? Like Xanatos and Franks for example.
No. Or at least largely no.
Xanatos was literally designed years before Jonathan Frakes was cast in the role.
Elisa's basic design didn't change much either, but we did send pictures of Salli Richardson to Mr. Takeuchi, the character designer who was working on her final model in Japan.
The human versions of Goliath, Hudson, Lex, Brooklyn and Broadway were influenced by the actors who played them. But only a bit. We had to stay faithful to the gargoyle base forms.
Okay, so we know gargoyles mate for life, but do they ever date.
1) Like, for example, Gabriel and Angela (I know they aren't a couple, it just an example it could be replace with anyone (Demona/Coldstone, Zafiro/Turquesa, etc.) but what if they had dated for a little and decided they just didn't like each other that way, and then they both go off to find other mates (Ophelia and Broadway). Again, not literally Angela and Gabriel but just for example. Could or would that ever happen? And I realize I thinking really human on this one.
2) And what if your mate dies. Could you remate (that's not a word, but you get the idea). Like Hudson, could (not will, so you wanted be revealing anything) find another mate?
Thank you, I LOVE the show ;-)
1. You're thinking pretty human. The clan spends a LOT of QUALITY TIME together. There's time to get to know prospective mates without "dating".
2. In theory, it's possible. Goliath lost his mate and is now extremely attached to Elisa. But that's the exception. Not the rule.
How does Coyote the robot end up like the Machiavellian schemer that he is in Gargoyles:2198?
With help. And multiple upgrades.
Who are Demona's two greatest loves? Can we figure them out now from the 2198 contest?
Two greatest? You mean out of the four or five she'll have total?
Hey, Greg, at the end of "the mirror" (or whatever it's called, haven't seen the series in a few years, so i may not remember every little detail), Demona was shown reacting to the situation as if she had no idea that she had somehow transformed. In fact, she didn't figure out she turned human until later in that scene. Now, if I was her, I wouldn't be enjoying the thought of not being stone during the day so much as I would be freaking out over the pain I just felt throughout my whole body. Sorry, but if all of a sudden I felt like every bone, sinew, muscle, etc. in my body was being twisted and tied into knots, I wouldn't exactly spring up and bask in the sunshine as if nothing happened. So what happened here? Is this simply simply another one of those errors made throughout the series? BTW, just in case you're wondering, i discovered this site just a night or two ago, so it's not like it took all these years for this question to occur to me. Thanks for your time, bud.
You're welcome.
There was no pain during that first transformation. Puck wanted to spring it on her as a surprise, so the pain was surpressed that once.
I might be mistaken on this, but as I recall in "Reawakening" didn't Demona say she something to the effect of she had tried everything (sorcery and science) to bring him (Coldstone) back to life? So, does that mean that she was carrying around what was left of Coldstone's body (and Desdemona and Iago's bodies also) around with her all over the world for the thousand years before "The Awakening"?
You're mistaken. So, no.
1. at the end of "City of Stone" in the flashback Demona glides off to "search for her kin". did she find any gargoyles after that point?
2. at that point, were there still some clans around that are not around today? what i mean is, when was the last entire clan wiped out leaving only the clans we know survive left to today?
1. Not in Scotland, at least.
2. Not revealing that now.
Will we ever meet the biblical Goliath?
Sure. He'll be at Virgina Beach, next summer.
Hello Greg!
I loved the show, especialy the Goliath/Elisa story. But I have a question, I heard that gargoyles age at half the rate that humans do. Would that affect Goliath and Elisa's relationship as the years whent on?
(Oh yeah, and just a daft one...do gargoyles shave? Hudson is the only one with facial hair of any description, I just wondered...)
OK. That you very much. How are you today?
Some gargs shave, some don't.
And yes, the difference in their age rate would of course effect their relationship. But I'm not saying how.
Last night I was watching 'Hunter's Moon, Part II' on Toon Disney. Since it's definately one of my favorite episodes, I tried to spot all the stuff I'd missed when on previous viewings. I was delighted by what I found!
It was in the scene right after when Elisa gives Angela CPR. In a short time afterwards dawn comes. What I noticed was that just before they turn to stone, Broadway moves beside where Angela is lying and takes her hand. It was happening in the background and no attention was called to it, but I thought that was incredibly sweet! I really loved it. Was that another hint that Broadway and Angela would end up together? If it was, it was a VERY nice way to do so. :-)
Another question about Hunter's Moon, Part II: When Goliath is just outside Elisa's window, seeing all that happens within (My original reaction to Elisa and Jason was *GASP!* "OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO OHMYGOD, NO!" So on and so forth), could he hear what was being said? I couldn't tell.
And I'd like to take a brief moment to say thanks for creating a show with characters that can endear themselves with little background actions and that make me care SO MUCH that its hero gets the girl!
1. Yes. As soon as Gary Sperling and I decided (while working on Turf) that Broadway and Angela would wind up together, we tried to show their relationship building -- in subtle ways.
2. Yes, he could hear. But in Soap Opera fashion, he left before he heard it all. To our credit, even the stuff he missed wasn't exactly equivocal.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
Is it a coincidence that both New Camelot and the Master Matrix are in Antarctica?
Nope.
What does the Master Matrix and the LXM robots have to do with the Matrix that we see in Walkabout?
A lot.
why did you and the writers decide not to have Macbeth join Arthur as one of his knights?
Mostly because Macbeth didn't seem to want to join.
But also because I didn't need him there as a regular in Pendragon. Frankly, he and Arthur have too much in common.
Arthur and Griff and later Blanchefleur and Merlin seemed like a good core group to start with.
Macbeth makes for a good guest star.
Have the names of Oberon and Titania's kids been mentioned in AskGreg?
Two have. Merlin and Fox. Oh, you mean the kids they had together?
NO. Not that I can recall.
Did Ra's al Ghul of Batman fame influence the character of Duval/Percival?
No.
When you came up with the notion of having King Arthur and Griff join forces, did you ever notice the parallel between their backgrounds in that both, during their original time periods, were defending Britain from Germanic invasions (King Arthur versus the Saxons and Angles at Badon, Griff versus the Nazis in the Battle of Britain)?
I don't know. I mean it's all info in my head. But I can't be sure if I was conscious of it.
Mostly, Griff just seemed like Round Table material.
Hello Mr. Weisman.
I don't come here often, but occasionally I'm struck by the urge to quiz you on something. I was browsing the questions you're fielding, and I was struck again by something I notice every time I visit this page. There seems to be some preoccupation here with "the mind of the other." I noticed another poster make reference to your interest in it (although I cannot find any record of your having initiated the discussion).
While the series was still active I saw you invoke this theme frequently whenever you emphasized the cultural shock that the gargoyles experienced in modern America, and I appreciated the fact that you treated our linguistic tendencies to "name everything" as a curious human social construction. It helped to push the idea that these creatures were _not_ human and that we could not understand their natures or their motivations from within the context of human sensibilities. I see there is some similar talk here of the fay, and the notion that their essential nature might be something that is sufficiently far removed from humans so as to be outside our understanding. All of this puts me in mind of the anthropomorphic problem that the SETI administration outlined for dealing with the idea of extraterrestrial intelligence's. Human beings have a tendency to ascribe human values to non human species, and beyond that have considerable difficulty in contextualizing "the mind of the other" without unconsciously resorting to the context of human sensibilities.
Which brings me to the reason for this post; because being a student of the sciences (and probably less attached to my humanity than most people), I have found reason to be extremely critical of some of the aspects of the way the anthropomorphic problem is treated within the natural sciences as it applies to non-human animals. Generally speaking, my problem is that some of the more archaic ethical distinctions that are made between humans and other animals have their foundation in the premise that the ascription of certain mental capacities ( reflection, emotion, etc.) are the ascription of _uniquely human_ qualities. The fact that this premise, itself, is socially constructed rather than informed by data, seems to be lost on at least most _social_ scientists. What is troubling me is that I have begun to observe this kind of thinking migrate into the popular domain through science fiction. I don't really follow sci fi, but I've seen star trek, and I have had occasion to see the half-dozen or so other popular sci fi programs that one can find on television. I see a trend wherein the heroes casual disintegration of a planet is commonly justified with the hazily defined and indistinct ethics of "It did not harbor any sentient life."
This trend is scaring the hell out of me; because the expression "sentient" is not really used within the scientific community, so it does not have any agreed upon definition attached to it and there is no objective data informing the idea of it. The word seems to have infiltrated popular culture, however, where it finds frequent expression. That's what's bothering me. I see a lot of the same hazy ethical reasoning on this board. A number of messages expressing the confusion that humans in your story were subject to when they "mistook the gargoyles for animals rather than sentient beings" and in doing so, justified a campaign to exterminate them.
I would hope that a reasonable group of people would be given pause by the almost casual disregard for life that is being demonstrated with the prioritization of one life over another based upon the presence or non-presence of this seemingly magical endowment. Because if I am reading the intentions of the contributors to this board accurately, then it would appear their position is that if the occupants of that clock tower had been a group of stray dogs or a family of polar bears, then annihilating them with a wire guided missile would have been perfectly reasonable. "It's all right. It didn't harbor any sentient life." I would encourage the fans that come to this site to give some thought to what it is they mean by "sentience." What is the content of this sentience? If it entails that a creature can react to it's environment, anticipate, reflect and emote, then it should be pointed out that what available data exists indicates that this capacity is only about as exclusive a domain as most land based vertebrates.
I guess they shouldn't have disintegrated that planet after all. I hope to encourage others to give this issue the thought that it requires. I am also hoping to elicit some commentary from you, on the matter of how you perceive "the mind of the other." What mental distinctions do you draw between humans and gargates or faeries. I would be interested in hearing you address the notion.
Punchinello
Thank you for writing. It certainly gets me thinking.
I'm probably as guilty as anyone of overusing, or rather overbilling the issue of "sentience". I think the concept has its uses. But it's probably used as a crutch too often.
Certainly, I don't want to see a family of polar bears, anthropomorphic or otherwise, blown up by a guided missile.
I don't much like the idea of destroying planets. In science fiction or otherwise.
As to this "mind of the other" concept...
Well for starters, I don't believe I did initiate the discussion of it -- unless you're including my constant admonishments to posters here that they are thinking like a human.
The previous post by Demoness and my response are a perfect example. She thinks Oberon is out of line. But she's thinking like a human, and a biased one at that. (I don't mean to pick on you, Demoness.) Oberon has a valid point of view. We may not like it, but it seems justifiable to me.
But the question of the mind of the other, was posted here initially by someone else. ( I can't remember who it was at this moment. ) I only just answered it in the last few days. Since you posted YOUR question, hopefully you've seen my response to that one.
And to reiterate, my response was that I'm still (in our universe) interested in the mind of US. Not the OTHER. But one way to explore that is to put ourselves in the shoes of the OTHER. Finding and describing and bringing the OTHER to life, whether as a Gargoyle or as a Child of Oberon, is for me an exercise in EXTRAPOLATION.
For example: If I was me, BUT I turned to stone every day AND I aged at half the rate I currently do PLUS most of my species had been exterminated 1000 years ago, ETC. -- then WHAT WOULD I BE LIKE?
For me, it's less about investing in species then in individual characters. Each with his or her own UNIQUE LIST of "extrapalatory parameters" (I just made that phrase up.)
It's really no different with a character like Elisa. After all, I'm a white Jewish male from California who has spent his entire adult life working in fiction. Elisa is an African-American/Native-American female from New York who's spent her adult life fighting crime. To understand her, I need to extrapolate.
However, in order to understand individuals of another species, I need to know more about that species. I need to envision the parameters that I will use to fully create their characters. So I've done that. In many ways, to me, gargoyle culture represent a kind of ideal. Not perfection, which doesn't personally interest me. But an ideal. Purpose. Loyalty. Oneness with the world they live in. Etc. I've borrowed things that I admired from multiple cultures and from my imagination, and I've tried to weave it into a coherent whole that fits the biology that I assigned them. These biological limits also create parameters for extrapolating character. Yes, the turning to stone thing. But also the group egg laying on a twenty year cycle. This naturally leads into the group child rearing thing. One is biological. One is cultural. But they are linked by extrapolation.
[Or... and I know this sounds silly but... perhaps they are linked by truth. By the fact that they exist in the Gargoyle Universe. As I've said many times before, sometimes this show flowed so well and easily, that it just seemed like I was tapping into something that existed. (But that's got nothing to do with this discussion, so let's ignore it.)]
And yet, from my point of view, all this is used to further illustrate the human condition. I don't think Oberon does or should think like us. But don't we all know a couple people with a little Oberon in them.
Keith David has said, as recently as seven days ago, that when he grows up he hopes to be like Goliath. And I personally think, that flawed as he is, Goliath is a wonderful role model. So we, as humans, can learn from Gargoyles. And we, as humans, can learn from Margot Yale as well. Maybe as a negative example. Maybe as something more down the road.
Ending Hunter's Moon with Jon Canmore becoming the human equivalent of Demona, was not an accident. They arrived at that point in two very different ways -- each, I hope, well informed by his or her species. (Or well extrapolated.) Nevertheless, the similarities between them are obvious and represent a "lesson" for us all.
All that stuff interests me MUCH, MUCH more than the exercise of creating something fully OTHER, just for the sake of achieving that.
Someday that may not be true. Aliens could land in Washington D.C. tomorrow and then comprehending the OTHER for the sake of understanding the OTHER will become a BIG priority fast. But for the time being, the human race is effectively alone in the universe. And before the aliens land, I'd like us all to get to know ourselves MUCH, MUCH better. In that sense, an Oberon, a Goliath, a Nokkar, are all just tools to that end.
The concept of sentience, comes in again, as I said, as a crutch. A convenient distinction between Bronx and Goliath, for example. Let's say you're from Russia. You don't speak English, and Goliath doesn't speak Russian. Still you have a hope that one or both of you may learn to speak the other's language. Dialogue is possible.
Bronx isn't ever going to speak Russian or English. That's the distinction. For what it's worth. In a moral sense, I'd say it's not worth MUCH at all. In a PRAGMATIC sense, we're not being honest if we don't admit it MEANS a lot.
Now. I don't think sentience is a WALL. Koko the gorilla can communicate in sign language. And I've got to say, I'm not sure that whales and dolphins aren't squealing complex philosophical discussions every day of the week. (Which is confusing because Dolphins have an eight day week, and whales have a thirty-seven day week. But what are you going to do?)
But even including a Bronx or a Cagney has value in the show. How do we respond to them. How do they respond to us? It's fun to do "The Hound of Ulster" and try to understand how an "animal" responds to various stimuli. It's still extrapolation. Now, with Bronx, I can cheat. I can keep him a beast and anthropomorphize him to my heart's content, because that species doesn't truly exist. I can make him as intelligent as I want. My goal there is to simply be consistent. Bronx can't start responding like Scooby Doo one day. You get the idea.
It's still about us understanding us and our place in the world. If in my own small way, I'm helping to open minds, helping to pave a bit of a way for when the aliens DO LAND, then great. But first and foremost, I'm asking us to KNOW OURSELVES.
Anyway, I feel like I'm starting to get repetitive. But this whole thread intrigues me. Feel free to post again with a follow-up. And everyone's welcome to join in.
I was reading some of the old arcives, and I found one of your responces listing a bunch of movies you liked. A few hours ago, I just saw a movie called "Ladyhalk" (which was great) and I suddenly felt the need to ask you I you have seen and/or liked it.
Well, while I'm at it, and since I don't have any Garg questions right now, how bout your views on these other movies: Somewhere in time, dead again, bram stokers Dracula(the newest), frequency, Indiana Jones(all), Scarface and uummmm, One flew over the cucu's nest. Be as brief as you want to be, or go on about some or even wright full reviews for all of them, I'll leave it up to you cause I'm just curious.
Thank U
LadyHawk. I LOVE this concept. I'm not as thrilled with the execution. It's been TOO long since I've seen it to go into detail, but I felt with that cast and those ideas it should have been a MUCH better movie. I actually tried to get Disney to option the rights to turn it into an animated film. But TPTB weren't interested. I do recall that the music is really dated and inappropriate to the subject matter.
Somewhere In Time. Which one is that? All those time titles melt together for me.
Dead Again. Is that the Branaugh/Thompson movie?
Dracula. The Coppola one?
Frequency. Didn't see it.
Raiders of the Lost Arc - Loved it.
Temple of Doom - Hated it.
Last Crusade - Hated it.
Scarface - Which one?
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - Amazing film.
WHo does the voice of Fox Xanatos? Its been bothering me for weeks.. please let me know. cavalier80@home.com
Laura San Giacomo. Currently a regular on "Just Shoot Me".
Are there actual gargoyles that resemble Raven's clan of illusion?
Not particularly.
You said that you once had Death of the Endless in Captain Atom so was this the infamous issue where Death is seen as an equal to the Nekron and the Black Racer?
I'm not sure about "equal". That's subject to interpretation.
But Death, Nekron and the Black Racer all appeared in the same issue. And yes, I wrote it.
I love that it's called "infamous". I heard that Neil was pissed off about it. I feel NO GUILT. His own editor had the opportunity to comment on the script. Hell, she could have sent it to him for his comments. Had either she or he notified me with concerns, then of course I would have changed the script to address those concerns. But there was no comment until AFTER the thing was published. And then suddenly, I was "in trouble".
The one thing I do feel bad about is that Death was miscolored in the issue. But that was beyond my control. I never saw the color proofs.
Otherwise, I tried to be faithful, and even intentionally vague. Death never says what she is. Captain Atom guesses at her function and at her relationship to the other "death" figures (i.e. the Racer and Nekron). No one in the issue says that he guessed right. So even if what he said was completely off-base, there's still nothing in the issue that contradicts anything that was established about the Endless. At least not to my mind. One can always choose to believe that Captain Atom was simply wrong.
And if the problem is that she even appeared on the page with Nekron and the Racer, then I have no sympathy. Neil chose to set his characters in the DC Universe. He even absconded with Destiny. I have no problem with that. But it's a shared universe by definition. There were death concepts in it that pre-dated his.
Now, here's the thing. Neil and I have never met or spoken. I don't actually have any conflict with him, and I definitely don't want to generate one now. I'm a huge fan of Sandman. Heck, I don't know if he even remembers the issue at all. I don't know if he ever really had a problem with it. I just heard he did.
(So do I have a chip on my shoulder about it or what?)
I know I'm probably setting myself up for a big fat "no" or a cryptic response, but I think this is worth a shot.
What do you know about Tom's father? Who was he? What did he do for a living? Was he dead by 995 or still alive? If he was alive, why didn't we see him at all?
Any little teasers would be appreciated. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Ok, this has been on my mind for a while, and checked the archives and didn't find it there.
What was Raven hoping to gain by driving everyone away from Queen Florence Island in "Heritage". I don't really understand his motivations there.
I used to live on Queen Florence Lane in Woodland Hills, California.
He was looking to gain power. Queen Florence Island was a place of power. He didn't want to share.
Why did you give up reading comics? I mean there are still some good ones such as Rising Stars(Rising Stars) and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen(Moore).
Never heard of 'em.
It's kind of a long story, but in a nutshell here are a few factors as to why I gave up comics in 1996:
1) Many of the comics I was reading at the time ended their run. Love & Rockets. Sandman. Etc.
2) Other comics I was reading became UNREADABLE. Hulk springs to mind. It wasn't really Peter David's fault. But by that time Hulk was the only Marvel Universe Book I was still reading. Then the Marvel Universe split in two or something, and I couldn't make heads or tails out of Hulk anymore. DC's Universe wasn't that much better.
3) Comics I still wanted to collect, like Cerebus, were becoming hard to find. There was no longer a good comic shop near my office. I couldn't go every week like I used to. So I'd try to go once a month. I'd miss an issue and not know it for another month when the NEXT issue came out. By that time, finding that back issue became VERY difficult.
4) Because so many comics I used to love were gone or unreadable, I was down to collecting very few titles. Given that I collected so few and the logistical difficulties of getting to a decent store, I was no longer feeling the old, "Gotta get in there and by the next issue of everything" pressure. Half the time I did go, I no longer found ANYTHING that I wanted.
5) I didn't plan on quitting. I went to a store in November of 1996. Didn't get around to going again in December or January of 97. By February or so, I realized that I had gone a while without... and that I didn't MISS IT AT ALL. This was a shocking revelation to me. SHOCKING. I'd been addicted to comics for DECADES. I had a huge collection -- particularly huge since from 1985-1987, I got every issue of every comic being published (with very few exceptions) for FREE. (I was on staff at DC at the time, and the various publishers had a gentleman's agreement to provide each other with free copies). Once I found I didn't miss it, I decided to quit. Freed up a ton of time and money.
Isn't Elisa a member of Goliath's clan? If so, why was she affected by Oberon's magic in "The Gathering" when he decreed that Goliath's clan was immune.
Oberon clearly doesn't realize that she's a member.
1. do either Broadway or Lexington shave their heads? do either have hairy heads if they wanted to let it grow?
2. do some beast have hair in the same way that some gargs have hair and some don't?
1. I don't think so. But maybe.
2. Yes.
Wouldn't gargoyles 2198 also tie your hands on certain arcs in the gargoyles universe?
That's a risk. It's also one of the reasons I moved the setting from 2158 to 2198. I wanted to get far enough into the future that most everyone from the original would be dead no matter what.
1a. Do the Fae tap into Earth's Magic?
1b. If yes, lets say a Fae somehow finds himself on Mars, would he be weaker then normal or completely powerless, or not effected at all?
2. How come Oberon could throw Xanatos magically when his magic is powerless against iron? (The Gathering pt 2)
3. In your opinion, who would win in a fair battle, Q or Oberon?
4. When did the Mab/Oberon war happen? Could you please give me an estimated date like c. 1000 BC-500 BC.
1a. Sometimes.
1b. I'm not big on hypotheticals.
2. He grabbed his head.
3. I have no interest in this question.
4. It is forbidden.
Sorry for asking another "Roswell Conspiracies"-related question, but:
You've indicated in past responses that your original plans for the series included its female lead being a banshee whom you were going to name Siobhan. When you came up with Siobhan, were you planning to use her as an at least partial "cannibalization" of the plans that you'd had for the Banshee/Molly in "Gargoyles"?
No. I developed Roswell Conspiracies, but I didn't create it. The basic concept was handed to me.
The idea on that show, at least when I was working on it, was that all those magical creatures like Yeti and werewolves and vampires and Shee, etc. did exist. But that they were various alien races from other planets.
Siobhan was native to Earth, in the sense that she was born here. But she wasn't human.
By the way, I offered up a copy of my pilot script to Roswell at the G2001 charity auction. I'm curious who bought it, what they paid for it and what they think of it? Please post and let me know.
Why was Gargoyles canceled off the air?
Will it ever be on ever again?
Can I do something about this situation?
Start by taking a look at the archives for a good answer.
At this point, I might suggest that the most pragmatic thing people could do is to petition Disney for a DVD release. Politely.
In your opinion, if Gargoyles ever became a motion picture, out of the well known actors, who do you think might best play Macbeth?
I say Sean Connery. He's got the looks (well use too, stick some hair on his head and he's fine), the accent, and he's played a King and warrior before. :)
We just had this discussion here. Check out the Ask Greg Archives under Macbeth, or Live-Action Movie or Voice Talent.
are there any other titles and positions in gargoyle clans besides leader and second in command? perhaps like rookery-guard, gargbeast-keeper, shaman, etc.?
Not universally.
Been a while since I asked anything. So here are a few questions related to gargoyle mating and the related customs. (Don't worry. It's pretty G rated.)
1. If a gargoyle does not mate for some reason, is he or she still considered a clan father or mother to the children of his or her rookery siblings?
2. Is there any kind of social pressure on young gargoyles to choose mates?
Thanks for answering.
1. Depends. Generally not. But there are always "uncles" or "aunts" who act more like parents than the parents.
2. Probably. (I'm not defending this, but I'm sure it exists.)
1. what spinoffs would be see Gabriel and Opheila in?
2. what is the relationship between Angela and Opheila?
3. when Opheila hatched do you imagine she had that head frill or do you think it grew in later?
4. how would you describe Opheila since we've seen so little of her?
1. Gargoyles for sure. Maybe Pendragon. Big maybe on 2198. Maybe TimeDancer.
2. Sisterly.
3. She had a little one.
4. I'd start by spelling her name right.
When Goliath found out Puck was Owen, or owen was puck, whey didn't he persue the matter of whether Future Tense was a dream or a profossy?
What's a 'profossy'?
Seriously, did the timing seem right to you?
And at any rate, G's not a dope. He knows he'd never get a straight answer from the Puck.
I know generally TGC is avoided in this forum, but since you wrote "The Journey":
Was there any significance to why Vinny was sent to Japan? Did you envision showing him and the Japanese Gargoyles at some future point?
Yes.
And "The Journey" is absolutely within the purvue of this forum. My last episode.
You said that the Olympian/Titan conflict and the Frost giants/Aesir existed, but what about the conflict between Tiamat and Marduk did it exist in some form?
Yes.
OK, Heres a good one!
If Fox had stayed as leader of the pack untill "upgrade" would she have upgraded her body in anyway or would she have taken Dingo's view on the matter. If she did upgrade herself what sort of thing would she do to herself and how sadistic would it be.
Mabey you wont mind this type of hypothetical question.
thanks
Why is THIS type of hypothetical any different from the others?
I'm not fond of them, but I doubt Fox would have done anything to her body.
Ever notice that when Demona's in her human form, her hair seems much fluffier than it does when she's gargoyle? It retains its spiky quality, but it appears slightly softer to me. Is it because the texture of gargoyle hair is different than human hair?
---Ytt
I haven't noticed the difference.
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