Entity writes...

Hi!

After reading your comments about prefering an hour-long format over a half-hour one, I thought I'd seek your opinion on something I (and I'm sure any other fan) has wondered: Do you think Gargoyles could've been "The One" to break through into mainstream?

Sure, the show was a breakthrough as it is. A heavy, animated drama series... and by the light and fluffy Disney, no less. But could it have gone further? Could it have been the first to gain the attention and respect of mainstream America? I don't think I have to say how condescendingly your average demographic adult views animation.

Gargoyles could've easily been an hour-long show. And while it had the fantasy and the science-fiction, its present urban setting made it down-to-earth. With it aimed at an adult demographic, there could've also been more of a PG rating.

That was the whole problem right there, in my opinion. The series should've never been targeted toward younger children. They were all watching Power Rangers. It was the older viewers who remember it. And they all came upon it on chance. To think of the audience Gargoyles could've gained had it been advertized for adults...

Gargoyles was so many things. Talk about a wide appeal. A cop show. A conspiracy show. A historical show. A mythological show. A sci-fi show. A business show. There were so many levels. It couldn't have been anything BUT successful.

Well, those are my... quite a few... cents. Heh. Hope I didn't ramble on.

Sharon writes...

I only discovered Gargoyles this past summer (first on Disney, later on Toon Disney) and I was immediately hooked! The characters and stories were intelligent and in-depth, and such a refreshing change from most cartoons nowadays.

I still have a hard time watching some of the episodes,(especially the ones that take place in medieval Scotland). I often find myself saying "if only!".. I know these are fictional characters, but I have come to care about them, and it's hard to see them screw up.

You also asked us to share our comments about the show, so I must say I loved that line by Xanatos when the Gargoyles are captured and bound to the coyote carving with a tray of acid above their heads and he says something like; "this is my first real stab at cliche villany, how am I doing?" That line was so over the top and yet so realistic it was great.

Furthermore the episode where Vinnie (?) spends the whole show pursuing the Gargoyles with a giant cannon while they fight for their lives and he finally shoots Goliath with a giant cream pie was unexpected and hilarious.

That is another thing I like about the show. Although tragic things happened, and could not be undone, these were intermixed with classic moments of comedy.

Ed writes...

Hi there, Greg!

At the time of writing, you've just been going through rambles about past episodes, specifically the first 'AWAKENING' instalments. So here's my own views on it, responding to some of the points/questions you raised then. (For those that missed those rambles, they were dated 10-12 February and are presumably in the 'rambles' section).

Firstly, a little explanation of how I came to 'Gargoyles'. The first episodes I watched were World Tour episodes ending with 'THE GATHERING PART ONE'. I missed a lot around then; the only ones I do remember seeing for sure were 'EYE OF THE STORM', 'THE GREEN' and 'BUSHIDO', 'ILL MET' and 'FUTURE TENSE'. This interested me enough (especially with that Oberon cliffhanger) to keep my hooked, but Disney took it off-air after that. But when flicking through the television channels one morning I found what I thought to be a curious little medieval cartoon. The scene had Katharine and the Magus in the banquet hall.

I quite like sword and sorcery bits and pieces, and the initial impression I got was that it looked rather realistic. It did occur to me that it was similar to 'Gargoyles' although I don't know what tipped me off (possibly the music). Of course, when I saw Goliath walk in, I got really excited. :)

I think what did occur to me (although I'm not sure how accurately I can recall) is that he seemed to have more presence about him then. More menace if you will.

One interesting thing is how many tiny little scene contrasts I didn't pick up as being significant. You mentioned the hypocrisy of Katharine having dogs in the chamber but blaming the Captain for 'beasts in the dining hall', and Broadway's differing reactions to food as the different circumstances demonstrated.

What annoyed me most about these episodes were the darn "next time on Gargoyles" snippets. These always annoy me. It seems like:
(a) an excuse to pad out air time.
(b) an indication that the people that whoever added it didn't have enough faith in the power of their cliffhanger to leave it to stand alone.
(c) a spoiler in a lot of ways.
Who decided to include these?

My first reactions to Xanatos... well, I knew that he was suspect because I'd seen him in THE GATHERING. The character fascinated me, but obviously I knew that he had another motive. I always felt that the introduction betrayed that a bit as well...

As for the Demona shadow... well it did give it away somewhat. I must admit, I didn't recognise Demona at all. I'd cottoned on that Angela (although I couldn't remember her name then) was the daughter of Demona. I can't remember whether this was simply because their designs were so similar as to make it obvious, or because I particularly remembered this detail. It was painfully obvious that Demona was alive from the initial encounter. It was a fascinating twist, although it did dumb down the surprise. And because I knew that Xanatos was a bad guy, the connection wasn't too difficult to make.

That GMTV run lasted until UPGRADE (omitting REVELATIONS and DOUBLE JEOPARDY, but including TURF). I only realised far too late in the day that I should start taping it, but what I do remember from the initial run was that the characters did get confusing.

For example, when I first watched vows it was several months after AWAKENING and I'd forgotten what the Magus looked like. So naturally, I got the Archmage confused with the Magus quite a bit. In some ways, this might have been the advantage that I 'got on' the 'Gargoyles' fan ride at the World Tour. The scenario was fairly self-explanatory - three gargoyles and a human touring the world and sorting out whatever problems arose there. After I was fairly hooked into it (that 14-month GATHERING cliffhanger) I then found out the backstory. But it wasn't until I was able to tape them that I appreciated the continuity.

To this extent, I do wonder if - even though it's not popular amongst many fans - the World Tour was a well-timed addition.

That's enough from me - you're supposed to be the one rambling on this page. ^_^

Onil writes...

Awakening -One big comment on the mini-series

I remember my first time watching the series VERY well. After my first day of high school I came home and saw an ad for the show that was cut from the "darker" scenes used in the opening credits. I was intersested. The next Monday, I came home late and forgot about "that new cartoon I wanted to see", but caught it when I was flicking the channels. I only missed a little bit of the intro. I watched the ep and was interested in it even though it wasn't what I expected from the commercial. To be honest I DID expect it to be more Batamn-like, but i didn't care -- the "you are tresspassing scene" had me hooked.
I have to say that every surprise that was unveiled really did surprise me. I didn't expect the clan to be slaughtered, and I did think that Demona was dead -- I figured Goliath would be able to ID her remians. Seeing her behind the shadows in the doorway TOTALLY ruined that for me though, so I felt zero dramatic effect when Goliath and his true love were reunited. But I didn't really care, everything was just so well-done that everytime I watched the show, there was a unique mood that was unlike any show I had seen. Sure, the animation was amazing, but the music helped too (except in the butchered direct-to-video version).

After the mini-series was done, I wasn't sure whether or not any more eps were being shown. In Toronto, the mini was first shown on a major Canadian network (that kids never watched after school). The Fox carrier that we see started showing the mini at 7AM on weekdays, but there was no way I could wake up to watch it. I set my VCR timer and ended up seeing the same mini rerun for another 2 weeks until new episodes were finally being aired. I remember the show temporarily moving to afternoons for some of Season 2, but I know that there must've been a lot of kids out there that had no idea where the show came from. It's not the kind of show everyone could jump right into (not that I'm complaining). I just think Gargoyles got a rotten deal when it came to Canadian timeslots.

Blaise writes...

Whew! I'm going to have trouble keeping up with your remarks on the episodes!

"Awakening Part 3"
Brooklyn the ladies' garg...well THAT certainly would have been interesting to say the least.
And I agree with your observation that it would have been best to not have seen Demona's silhouette (I KNOW that's spelled wrong) in the doorway this early-on. It would have made her reappearance in Part 4 more shocking and her story more believable. At this point I kind of figured Xanatos was untrustworthy, but wondered about "the female gargoyle" and what her role in all this was.
The latch on the freezer door actually would have made that scene more believable (especially because that door shouldn't have been so heavy that Brooklyn and Lexington TOGETHER would have had to exert so much effort). Forgive me for bringing up a little wound here, but WHY does Toon Disney think it has to cut the scene of Brooklyn's escapade with the stove? I would think children would be LESS likely to play with a stove, if that scene does anything other than make them laugh.
Really wish you guys had been able to sneak in Elisa's little joke about names. ;) Hudson really is terrific in that scene, and I still love the zinger Elisa gives about the River.
I do have to agree that everytime I watch this ep now it constantly surprises me to hear Goliath tell a joke. How many of those did he get in the series? Two? Three, maybe?
As for the mistakes in Broadway/Brooklyn's lines and the animation, well...okay, don't take this as criticism (it isn't), but at this point, either one could have said those two lines and it would have been alright. Personally, I kind of like the way it did turn out (not to second guess you, Michael Reeves, and Eric Luke).
And yeah, who'd have thought cameo characters would be given development?

I like these rambles of yours!

Coldlaser writes...

Hello mr. Weisman.

It was only recently that I saw Frank Welker was one of the voice actor. This guy is amasing when it come make animal sounds or strange voices. But, did you ever thought of giving him a role where he would actually talk, like all the other voice actors?

I first knew Welker as Megatron, Soundwave, Galvatron and other Transformers (well Decepticons actually), he was great!

Robby Bevard writes...

Hey Greg, it's me. The Vinnie fanatic and the guy who voiced the psycho truck driver at G99. This is my first post to ya, and I'm not even asking a question! (Well, I am curious about where you got the name "Nashville", but thats a different matter, I'll ask about that in a bit.) This is in response to your rambles about the series, and you asking about our first impressions of it. Since you're covering Awakenings, I'll cover the first season, since you'll be well past that by the time you read this.

My first impression of the show came during the trailer in "Nightmare before Christmas" actually, and I was totally psyched by that. I could tell it was going to have that sort of feel "Beauty and the Beast" had. The live version, with Linda Hamilton. Mixed in with Batman and nifty looking creatures. Looked good.

My second experiance unfortunatley, was a Disney Adventures mini-comic, so I knew the characters names and that Xanatos and Demona were villains before I ever saw it, which is a real pity. Ah well.

Then came the airing of the first episode. I watched the firs... 5 minutes, mezmerized. Then, my dad told me I had a doctor's appointment, and I had to leave, without a chance to set my VCR. I argued and fought to stay, but had no choice but to leave.

The next day, a couple of kids in my art class were talking about it. I tried to join the conversation based on what I knew from the Disney Adventures comic, only to be told, "But they don't have names. You're making that up." Heh.

Then came the second episode, which I watched, enthralled. I think perhaps having Demona's shadowed hint was a bad move, but I recal watching it with a friend and going "wow" the first time I saw the gargs cape their wings. Strangely enough, that's the part I remember most clearly, them caping their wings and thinking it was cool. Wierd.

The next three episodes flew by in a blur, day after day, that was grand. I was hooked and amazed by this series, and since it came on after I came home, I didn't even need to set the VCR! Yay! All of Awakenings just sort of blurs together as one great experiance with romance, action, and lots of good things. I rather enjoyed the trio's experiances in modern day, including the kitchen and bike riding scenes. (Incidentally, circumstances CONTINUOUSLY made me miss the first episode, so I never saw it until Awakenings was released on video, so I had no idea there was cut footage at first!)

The next episode I saw was the first encounter with the Pack. I liked Lexington at that point and thought perhaps he could be my favorite character. I also enjoyed the concept of a really cheezy TV-show being liked by the gargs, but at the time, didn't like the Pack at all. This I suppose, is just because you brought in the five of them all at once, and it was a lot of new personalities to keep up with.

After that, my schedual made it so that I saw episodes out of order, and both "Temptation" and "Reawakenings" I inintially saw only the last few minutes of.

Temptation however, I loved. It locked Brooklyn into place as my favorite character, and was the first episode I taped on the second run through. The way Brooklyn reacted to Demona was great, and she was also an interesting character as well, particularly in the little hints she dropped. The first time around I totally missed the fact that the bikers had failed to notice Brook was a monster until after he took his helmet off, I just knew it was a cool bike, and a cool attitude.

Long way till Morning- It was just cool to see Hudson kick butt and Demona be totally evil and sadistic. "Fine, I'll just shoot everything in this room." Man, I miss Demona being that nasty.

I suddenly forget the name of the episode where Broadway shoots Elisa, it'll come to me as soon as I post this... The first Dracon, didn't really care for him in that episode, he was much more interesting later. All I remember clearly is, Broadway firing, seeing Elisa on the ground, and then the cut to a commercial break. I stood up, stared at the screen, and went "NO! You can't do this!" Particularly effective since Gargs was so different from every other show on the air, it was actually possible a main character could die right then and there. I was scared for Elisa's life.

Enter Macbeth- All I remember about that one the first time is "Ouch." Vrooo. "Ouch." Vrooo. "Ouch." Hee hee... That's still probably the best bits of the series. In retrospect, I was really impressed with MacBeth at the time. Cool voice, cool outfit, cool sense of honor. I *LIKED* him.

Her Brother's Keeper- Wasn't too thrilled with this one the first time. It was another Pack episode, and I still didn't really care about them. (Later viewings made it out to be a much better episode than the original impression gave.)

ReAwakenings- ANother one I originally saw the last few minutes of first. However, another of the best lines in the series, "It's alive! Aliiiive! I've always wanted to say that." still cracks me up to this day.

Hmm. I've missed an episode, but for the life of me, I can't recall which one it was. It'll come to me... And I've probably rambled on enough already considering I think I'm one of the first to ramble back at you...

Lynn writes...

I got to watch "Awakening" for the first time last night(!!), which was broadcast after the final TGC episode "Angels of the Night". Man, could I really see the difference between the two! I mean, there's the sense of the mythological story present in the first episode not found in TGC.
As far as your question on whether we thought Demona might really be dead, I can't really say for myself, since I had seen the series through (for the most part). I probably would have wondered at least a little, considering she wanted to follow Goliath on his hunt for the Vikings.
Anyway, I'm excited about the series running again, and I promise not to miss a single ep...thanks for such a terrific tale! gives me goosebumps ;)

Btw, are there any other Texans in this group? Yes, I'm a CowGoyle (sorry, couldn't resist), actually a HorseGoyle--most texans don't ride cows... :P