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Pyro X writes...

Greg;

Are the similarities between the Gummi bears and the Gargoyles intentional? (I mean, Gruffi acts like Goliath, Tummi is fat and like to eat like Broadway, and Zummi is the wise old one.)

Greg responds...

Not that intentional. Not that specific.

But as I've mentioned many, many times before, Gummi Bears generally was one of the inspirations for the show. It was Gummi Bear's sense of mythology, of extrapolation that inspired us. Not details like personalities of individual bears. (And though Tummi & Broadway have an obvious similarity, I don't think they're really very similar at all. And Goliath and Gruffi? That's a stretch.)

Response recorded on March 22, 2000

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Fan of Salli writes...

What was Salli Richardson like? I mean besides being drop dead good looking.

Greg responds...

She's a great, talented lady. I think she's a regular now on FAMILY LAW.

Response recorded on March 19, 2000

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Alan Coleman Waltrip writes...

I read "Self-Reliance" by Emerson the other day. Coming here, I remember your 'Hobogoblins of Little Minds' story title you threw out... The quote is one of my new favorites, "Foolish consistencies are the hobogoblins of little minds," which is basically saying that EVERYTHING must change or one will die. It's almost profounding. It's something that more or less sums up Gargoyles in one sentence.

My question is this: What exactly was going to change in this episode? It is obviously something big... is it something like Brooklyn timedanceing out? Or something more character orientied?

Thanks...

Greg responds...

I'm not sure I interpret Emerson's quote the same way. And I actually wasn't planning on Hobgoblins being a big SEACHANGE episode.

Response recorded on March 19, 2000

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Ifrinn writes...

I am new to the Station 8 site here so you may have been asked this question before but here goes. In my experience Gargoyles had a large adult viewer ship, I think because it was a very intelligent show. Was this an intended aspect or a happy coincidence? And do you think it had anything to do with the canceling of the show? Most of Disney's TV projects aren't half as intelligent as Gargoyles was, perhaps it was garnering too much of an adult audience and not enough of a children's audience?

I have had friends who are deeply Christian and who would not let their children watch the show simply because of the "demonic" Visage of the characters. Knowing Disney's problems with Christian fundamentalist groups do you think this as well could have been part of the show's downfall?

Thanx for your time, Gargoyles is one of my all time favorite Animated series.

Greg responds...

We consciously tried to write the show on multiple levels, for kids and adults and everyone in between.

But, guys, as I've said before, the show wasn't exactly cancelled. We set out to make a syndication package of 65 and we did that. If the ratings had been HUGE we might have gone on...

Oh, wait, we did go on. (Well, not me, but the show.) See, the ratings the first two years were in fact, quite solid. And so they made 13 more episodes for a third season on ABC. The ratings there weren't strong, so the show wasn't picked up for a fourth year. Which, sure, is a euphemism for being cancelled. But if the Goliath Chronicles was cancelled because it was TOO intelligent, then...

As for Christian fundamentalists, I only ever saw one complaint letter from someone who described themself that way. And reading that letter it was clear that the person had never seen the show. I can't judge whether or not that one letter was representative of a huge and diverse group or not. But there was never any pressure from them or any other "group".

Response recorded on March 19, 2000

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Chapter X: "The Edge"

By the end of this episode, everyone is happy.

Both Goliath and Xanatos are afraid they've lost their edge. Both are convinced by the end that they've regained it. Both are at least partially deceiving themselves. [One of the little ambiguities that I love about the Xanatos tags is that one way to interpret them is that David is just full of it. He loses, but claims victory anyway.]

But David is just so lovable in this episode. You gotta love the villain who does NOT penalize his subordinate for beating him in a judo match. And he has such great audacious dialogue (kudos to Michael Reaves and Jonathan Frakes). A few approximate samples:
--"I'm the best friend you have."
--"If you're going to be picky, we won't get anywhere."
--"You're taking this much too personally."
And those were all in one scene. A scene where he's just standing out there awaiting their arrival. I mean, a guy as busy as he is... Is that confidence/arrogance or what?

And he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. Giving X the armor was essential. Up to this point, David had been only the brains. But to be a true reverse-hero, he had to be a warrior as well. Here we showed he had what it takes to mix it up. But always without being stupid. Question: How many of you knew the "red robot" was Xanatos in armor before the tag? Of course, now it seems obvious, but what about the first time you saw this ep?

And yet Elisa "Wouldn't want his karma." What goes around comes around. All that arrogance, had to receive some commeuppance. (Can anyone say Oberon?)

One thing that I thought was TOO OBVIOUS was the Steel Clan theft of the EYE OF ODIN. I would have preferred if that scene had been more ambiguous in Act One. Preferred that the audience maybe think that the Robot WAS Goliath, so that when Matt takes aim at the cliffhanger, we think he's going to shoot Goliath. The cliffhanger doesn't really play as is. Only Elisa is fooled, not the audience.

Everyone wonders why Xanatos donated the Eye to the Museum of MODERN Art. (Maybe because it had mediocre security, but adequate security cameras.) But what I want to know is whether or not Edvard Munch's "The Scream" is really at that museum?

Speaking of THE EYE, I may have mentioned that this was actually the idea of the Disney interactive video game people. We wanted to be synergistic, and I kinda liked the whole idea, so we put it into the show. It was another of our step-by-step additions to the continuity. Intro it as a minor maguffin. A dewdad for Xanatos. And build from there, with the eventual plan to actually make it Odin's eye. At some point in all this, we completely forgot that the idea came from the interactive people. We went back to see them months and months later and were reminded. Luckily the concepts hadn't gotten too far away from each other. But the design did. Unfortunately, our design wound up looking a bit Egyptian for my tastes. The Interactive design had a great Raven motif. (Oh, well.)

New characters (more or less):

A cameo by Derek.

The first mention of the Emir.

The first appearance of Travis Marshall. Michael and I worked this guy out together. He wouldn't be one of those fluff journalists. He'd be old school. He wouldn't whitewash David, just because the guy was a rich man. We always made sure to give Travis that edge. And still, I always felt we underused him. In this episode, Matt gives him a lift in Derek's chopper. Matt says, "You owe me one." Eventually, I'd like to see Matt collect on that favor in a story focusing on the two of them.

And speaking of Matt...

The first real appearance of Matt Bluestone. This guy was largely Michael Reaves' creation. (Although the "Bluestone" name was one of our earlier choices for Elisa's last name. After Chavez, Reed and Chavez, but before Maza.) At first, I admit I was dubious about him being a conspiracy nut. But it so worked. And this was the first time I ever worked with Tom Wilson. He's just so great. And so damn funny to have in the booth. (I love him in FREAKS & GEEKS.)

Matt & Elisa discuss the Illuminati, UFO's and Loch Ness. I love how dubious she is, with her inside joke: "Believe me, the world's strange enough as it is." Little does she know.

But my favorite thing about Matt is that ultimately he's a healthy influence on Elisa... "Maybe that's when you need one [a partner] the most." He's just a really good guy.

As usual, characters keep their promises. Matt vows to find out what those creatures (the gargs) are. And by God, eventually he does.

More on continuity...

Elisa's only JUST coming back to work. In cartoon terms, the fact that we waited this long after her gunshot wound, was a relative eternity. The height of cartoon realism. It doesn't seem like very long, but months passed between the original airings of DEADLY FORCE and THE EDGE.

And Chavez won't let her go back on the job without a partner. Michael conceptualized Matt -- after I mandated the creation of Elisa's partner. Cops have partners. It is one of the defining things about cops. When cop-shows show cops working solo, it always bugs me. I felt we got away with it for a bit. But it was time to make Elisa a more real cop. And that meant a partner. Not a bad guy. But someone who could potentially cause her trouble. And yet still really be her partner.

Broadway is still very solicitous toward Elisa. Taking the tv from her. It's sweet.

Random stuff:

The show is gorgeous to look at. (Thanks Roy, et al.)

I love Lexington's line when he regains consciousness: "We're still alive. How come?"

Watching the show this time, my daughter was very nervous that the Statue of Liberty would be damaged in the battle between our gargs and the Steel Clan. But when Broadway nailed one robot by impaling him with a metal claw from the other robot, Erin said, "Nice one."

Goliath is reading Dostoevsky. Are you?


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Todd Jensen writes...

You asked in a recent rambling about our responses to a number of the "permanent changes" in the course of the series. In the case of the ones that you cited, I can't really recall now how I responded to them at the time (for example, in the case of "Enter Macbeth", my attention was more grabbed by Macbeth's entrance into the series - particularly on account of his name, since that's always been one of my favorite Shakespeare plays - than by the gargoyles' forced relocation - and I was even more delighted in later episodes when we found out more about him and that he was *the* Macbeth).

However, I do recall two "changes" (if relatively small ones) that did startle me. The first was Owen's hand getting turned permanently to stone at the end of "The Price". The second was the destruction of the Grimorum Arcanorum in "Avalon", which particularly raised my eyebrows since that book had been around since the beginning of the series, so that I was astonished to see it go. (I might add that, from my subjective view-point, the end of the Grimorum came, in a sense, not so much when it self-destructed in "Avalon Part Three" as when the Archmage devoured it in "Avalon Part Two").

But when I did look back on them in retrospect, I found that I very much appreciated the changes. It was one of those things that gave "Gargoyles" a special feeling about it that I've so rarely seen in television animation. More like a televised novel, almost.

Greg responds...

Thanks. That was the goal. I figure, hey, S**T HAPPENS. And some things you can't take back. Yeah, sure, I wasn't gonna leave all the gargoyles as humans for all the eps after "The Mirror"; after all, the show wasn't called "HUMANS". And of course, even the loss of the castle wasn't permanent, as Goliath predicted.

But some things can't be changed. Demona can't take back the massacre. History is immutable. And the Magus... well, he's gone. That's life. And death. And everything in between.

As for the two specifics you mentioned...

I wanted to get a rise out of all of you with Owen's hand. It was designed to shock. It was also a bit of a clue. And it flat-out amused the hell outta me.

As for the Grimorum, it honestly felt played out to me. (How many stolen spells could we pull out of our collective hat?) But I wanted to give it a memorable exit. I thought having it swallowed whole by the Archmage was pretty cool.

Hmmm, "HUMANS"... Maybe there's a spin-off idea there...

Response recorded on March 17, 2000

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Lexy writes...

Hey Greg..boy its been a while since I've come in here to harass you. Ok heres a short one..Can you tell us how the Gargoyle cries were made for the show? U know..the sound Goliath made when he found his angle love in a pile? Or When Lex zoomed in to knock Wolf over..er..I think it was wolf..to lazy to check right now!-_- Or even in episode Seven, "Temptation" when Demona went screaming into the night..each one sounded different according to the character. IE Goliath deeper, Lex's higher pitched..Demona's definatly had a female quality.

Well, I was just wondering Thanks!:) OH and thanks again also for all the effort you are putting in to answer these Q's. You are a real trooper;)

Greg responds...

In the recording studio, we'd always have the actor record any roars, growls etc. that we needed. Obviously, when Frank Welker was playing Bronx, that was simply what he did.

But we also had an amazing sound effects guy, Paca, who created individual SFX for all the gargoyles. For example, for females, we leaned toward a more pantheresque sound.

Then in the Sound Mix, we'd choose on a case by case basis, whether we were going to use the actors, the FX or both. We'd add reverb, etc. (In my head, by the way, I always felt that Gargoyles have two voiceboxes.)

It's hard for me to remember any specifics regarding individual roars. (Think how many roars we had per episode, then multiply by 66.) But speifically, that classic Goliath lament-roar was a whole lot of Keith David reverbed.

Response recorded on March 17, 2000

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Alan "Ordell" Coleman writes...

If you had the chance to go back and re-do the show in it's completeness, is there anything at all you would do differently? Say, for example, leave out a character or introduce a new one you had planned?

Thanks...

Greg responds...

I've mentioned minor (or relatively minor -- they drive me nuts) episodic mistakes I made, particularly in GRIEF and THE HOUND OF ULSTER. But there are no huge things I'd change. Given more episodes, I'd add a lot more characters.

Why do you ask?

Response recorded on March 11, 2000

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Chapter IX: "Enter Macbeth"

Another episode by episode ramble. Feedback encouraged.

So here's where all that great continuity got us in major trouble.

The episodes were all designed to play in a certain order. But I didn't tell my bosses that in advance. I know it sounds sneaky, but it wasn't really. We wrote the darn things and sent them off in order. It never occured to me they wouldn't be able to come back and air in order. I mean, how could a newer episode get the jump on an older one? How could an older episode not be ready before a newer one? Then the footage came back on "Enter Macbeth".

This was the first episode not animated in Japan. And immediately we knew we were in trouble. I'm not talking about the version you all have seen. The one that aired. I'm talking about stuff you never saw. Much of the original footage we got was unusable. This wasn't about just calling retakes. This wasn't about us bitching how "Thrill" wasn't as well animated as "Awakening". This was a major disaster. So my bosses said: "Air the next one." And I responded, "We can't."

And not just because they were all designed to air in order. It was a horrible coincidence, but this episode, this episode that was unairable, was a tentpole. Yeah, if Thrill or Temptation had been reordered it would have been sad. Same with "The Edge" and "Long Way To Morning". But big deal, right? Better to get a new episode out and not make the audience deal with repeats this early in the season. (Remember, we had aired our first five episodes in one week. This was only week five. In those days, week five was considered way too early in the year for reruns.)

But this was the follow-up to Elisa's injury. It was important to us that we continue our policy of "repercussions". We put her on crutches to show that a gunshot wasn't something that was solved in twenty-two minutes. This was an ongoing recovery. If you pulled the crutches out by airing Edge next, you blew out the sense of repercussions.

But that wasn't the clincher. Of course, the clincher was the Clock Tower. This was the episode where the Gargs were "banished" from the castle and moved to the Clock Tower. That was a major shift. If we cut straight to Edge, the audience would be lost. Fortunately, Gary was convinced. In a way, I was lucky that our first crisis of order came on such a pivotal "tentpole" episode. We couldn't reorder these. So we went with reruns. But it was a lesson learned. And it would effect the way we approached the second season.

But meanwhile, we had the problem at hand. We couldn't reanimate the entire show. So we picked shots to redo judiciously. There are still some awful looking scenes. When Goliath says, "How Dare You?!" to Elisa, he looks like an Animaniacs parody of Goliath. And that sarcophogus/iron maiden thing that Goliath follows Macbeth through looks like a prop out of CHIP N DALE'S RESCUE RANGERS. (Another perfectly good series, but with a slightly different art style, if you know what I mean.) Or how about the GIANT remote that Macbeth pulls from his duster in order to summon his ship? "Enter Macbeth" is still, as aired, the worst looking episode of the first season. And that really killed Frank and I, because we both really loved this story. We were sure that the bad animation would kill any interest in Macbeth. The fact that generally, the character did catch hold of fandom's collective imagination is a true testament to the work of Steve Perry, Michael Reaves, John Rhys-Davies and Jamie Thomason. And, oh, yes... William Shakespeare.

The weak picture forced us to use a lot of little tricks to get a final cut. One thing we did, which I regret, is reuse dialogue. Elisa says "You aren't safe here" like three times. And it isn't three different takes. It's just the exact same take reprinted and reused. Lex & Brooklyn also reuse lines to get Bronx to find Goliath. That sort of thing drives me nuts.

There is one really nice moment in the animation. When Macbeth chooses his sword off the wall, the reflection effect is quite sweet. And I also like the down shot of Bronx running right down the middle of Broadway (the street not the gargoyle). I also love how Goliath makes no attempt to hide. That really spoke to the Gargoyles attitude about living among humans. They wouldn't hold press conferences, but they would not cower.

Anyway, we ran reruns. Awakenings. And obviously all five episodes on five consecutive weeks. That might have been a good thing for people who had heard about the show by word of mouth in week two or later and needed to catch up. But for anyone who had been following the show from its premiere, it was a long time to wait for new episodes. By the time we came back, so much time had passed since "Deadly Force" that we felt the need to put a "Previously on Gargoyles" at the head of the episode. Another trick I cribbed from HILL STREET BLUES. Cartoons rarely did that sort of thing. Sure multi-parters had to. But single episodes... For some reason, it made me feel very grown up. (Which only proves how immature I really am.) The "Previously" also allowed us to cut 30 more seconds of bad looking footage out of the episode. That little bonus was something I'd remember for season two as well.

HOME

As we pushed guns in the previous episode, this one is laced with the imagery and language of home. What is it? What makes it? What price is one willing to pay to keep or secure it? There are four homes depicted. Well, really five. The Gargoyles' castle. Xanatos' prison. Macbeth's mansion. The Clock Tower. And the Castle again, once it is reclaimed by Xanatos and thus becomes a very, very different place.

I tried to make sure, as much as possible, that every episode had that kind of underlying theme. (I recently tried with very limited success to do the same thing in MAX STEEL. Someone asked me once, why the one-word S-Titles for all the Max Steel episodes. They were my attempt to make me and the writers focus on the theme of each story.)

And how do all these homes turn out? Macbeth is so obsessed that he loses his home to a fire. Xanatos finally gets out of prison. (Not on Halloween by the way, or that would make the dates depicted in Double Jeopardy innacurate. Obviously, Halloween was circled on his calendar because the guy just loves Halloween. And after all, Owen specifically says in a LATER scene that Xanatos has one week left before he gets out. The wall calendar had shown only a few days.) The Gargoyles lose the castle, gain the clock tower, but realize that home is literally where the heart is. And Xanatos... well all other concerns of Grimorum and gargoyle of destruction and competition pale next to the simple pleasure of being back home.

And how many of you were suprised that the Gargoyles lost the castle? That was supposed to be another pretty shocking development. I mean, sure, Batman might lose the Batcave for an episode, but for 56 episodes? When Goliath said "We'll be back to claim that which is ours" at the end, did most of you think he'd be back next week? Next month? By the time, the gang finally did return in chapter 65, did anyone still remember Goliath's vow?

MACBETH

I've discussed this before, but Macbeth's origins (at least in terms of our series) were (ironically) an early attempt to play the notion of THE HUNTER. I was looking for someone human who could physically take on the Gargoyles as prey. Someone smart, with an agenda. We actually started with the notion of trying to create our own KRAVEN THE HUNTER type character. But it quickly moved in its own direction. Frankly, away from Kraven and more toward BATMAN. In those days, we were constantly being told that we would be accused of ripping off Batman. So Frank, Michael and I decided to create a villain who, at least in M.O. would be our Batman.

I had a semi-separate idea to add a human to the cast who was from Goliath's time. Thus creating a good thematic nemesis or opposite for him. (The key to creating a good villain, in my opinion.) But this villain would have lived through the centuries. So that he was familiar with the very latest in technology. This dove-tailed with our anti-Batman, and was also exactly how we viewed Demona. So it soon became clear to Michael and I that the two characters must be connected in some way. That suggested that he shouldn't merely be 1000 years old. He should be Scottish as well. All that was left was a name. And given my love of Shakespeare, I'm surprised it took me so long to figure it out. Our nemesis was Macbeth himself. An immortal Scottish King. What Scottish King was more immortal than Macbeth? More mortal too for that matter.

This was the beginning of countless Shakespearian references that I would either slide (or force) into the show, or that the writers would stick in knowing I was a sucker for them. And I love the little exchange between Lex & Brooklyn...

[dialogue approximate]
LEX: "Wasn't "Macbeth" the name of that play by that new writer Shakespeare that Goliath was talking about?"

BROOKLYN: "Have you read it?"

LEX: "No. Have you?"

BROOKLYN: "No. But maybe we should."

This was my little way of trying to encourage our viewers to read or at least learn about the play. If they wanted to know who Macbeth was, it wouldn't hurt to go to the primary source.

And at the time, Shakespeare was my primary source for Macbeth. This was long before Tuppence Macintyre and Monique Beatty did all their research for me for "City of Stone". Back then, the only Macbeth I knew about was Shakespeare's.

We gave him a sense of honor, but a twisted one. And we gave him a very interesting motivation. I didn't yet know the particulars, but this guy was after Demona in a major way. He had stained glass windows in his home depicting the two of them. He was the man who named her. It was all pretty intriguing stuff to me. I love the exchange between him and Goliath. Goliath is a pawn. Mac wants the queen and believes that endangering Goliath is the surest way to ensnare Demona. And how does Goliath respond? By gum, if he doesn't laugh -- MANIACALLY!! And watch how the tables turn. Macbeth is not infallible and suddenly Goliath has him on the defensive. Goliath even uses a MACE!! Great stuff.

Incidentally, we had in the script described Macbeth as wearing a thin layer of exo-armor. And Goliath was supposed to dig his claws into it. Macbeth would escape by detaching from the armor. Instead, the artists did the bit with the duster coat. But I remembered the claws in armor thing and eventually found a place for it... in HUNTER'S MOON, PART THREE.

Finally, watching the episode tonight, my five year old daughter said she spotted the Mona Lisa on Macbeth's wall. I didn't see it. But I believe her. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the original. Too bad about that fire.


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Kenneth Chisholm writes...

Let's imagine that you were producing Gargoyles with in an America with the equivalent attitude to animation and content freedom of your average TV anime series in Japan, like Gatchaman (G-Force here), PatLabor or Bubblegum Crisis. What do you think you would have done differently in the show under those parameters?

Greg responds...

Nothing.

There's been this annoying assumption that I was faced with restrictions. It's just not true. For starters, during the first season I was both the Producer and the Executive in charge of the production. I was reporting to myself. Even during the second season, when I moved over to full-time producing and an executive was assigned to the series, he always deferred to me with only one exception. That's one exception over the course of hundreds and hundreds of decisions.

That doesn't mean it was a one-man show. Frank Paur and I were equal partners. I valued the input of story editors, actors, directors, etc. But there was only one idea of mine that was directed. And admittedly, it was a very surreal esoteric idea. Even then, my bosses were willing to let me pursue it as a single episode. But I felt it needed two parts to do it justice. They didn't want to dedicate two episodes to something quite so strange.

With the single exception of that story, the "content" you saw was exactly what I WANTED to put on the air. I had freedom. Better, I had autonomy.

As for the anime series you named, I haven't seen the last two. And if G-Force is what I think it is, then my memory of it is of a fairly juvenal series. Nothing particularly content-shocking in the version I saw. But maybe I'm mixing it up with something else. Feels like it was twenty years ago or something.

Response recorded on March 03, 2000


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