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SOK writes...
While perusing my tapes I noticed that Xanatos named his son Alex. Is this suppose to be a tribute to Lex Luthor since Lex=Alex?
Greg responds...
Nope. More of a reference to Alexander the Great.
Epantiras writes...
Did Janine Renard call herself Fox because the French word "renard" means "fox"?
Greg responds...
I'm sure that was part of it.
Xanadu writes...
Was the fact that Fox was the only heir to one of Xanatos's biggest competitors have anything to do with his marrying her or does he actually love her?
Greg responds...
As it turns out, as demonstrated in "Eye of the Beholder", BOTH.
Certainly Fox's "compatibility" included her coming inheritence. But Xanatos soon discovered that he actually loved her. Remember?
Anonymous writes...
Does alex or merlin have enough fay blood in them to mate with non-compatible species?
Greg responds...
I'm really not sure I understand the question.
If they transform into another species than they can mate. They have enough "fay blood" to theoretically transform, but it also requires extensive training. And more training for them than for the average Child of Oberon.
Chapter XXX: "Upgrade"
Here's a new ramble for ASK GREG & the DCV...
As usual, I watched the episode recently with my family.
And as usual, everytime my five year-old Benny, sees Xanatos and Fox, he tells his seven year old sister Erin, "You were her. I was Xanatos and you were Fox." [All quotations (both from my kids or from the episode) are approximate.]
ATTITUDES
This is a big episode for attitudes.
Xanatos and Fox pit multiple individuals against each other in life and death circumstances and regard it all as a game.
Lex still hates the Pack.
Dingo is disgusted with the Pack's life of crime, and then even more disgusted with what his teammates do to their bodies. Cool lines like "Save the horrorshow..." or "I hope you don't eat your catch..." or "You're barely our species..." or "I still can't get over what you three did to yourselves..." or "I'm a partner in a freakshow..." or "...after they went Frankenstein on me..." all help distinguish him, perhaps for the first time. We had a notion of where Dingo was going. And this episode helped bridge the gap to "Walkabout". And eventually to the development I did with Gary Sperling, Bob Kline, Troy Adomitis, Doug Murphy and Patrick Archibald on "BAD GUYS," which some of you have seen at the Gathering.
How the mighty have fallen. My point-of-view and Dingo's matched up. The Pack were beginning to feel pathetic. The problem with villains is that after the heroes keeps beating them over and over, you need to find a way to keep them competitive. This episode (reflected in its title, which may or may not have been one of mine, but which I latched onto EARLY and stuck with) was always part of my plans for the Pack. Intro them in the first season as humans. This was necessary, because the world of our first season was MUCH more normal. I wanted to weird the world up in small steps. Don't intro Oberon first, intro Puck. That kind of thing. So once the science was established, we'd upgrade.
This dovetailed nicely with the need for Goliath to 'upgrade' one of his warriors to Second-In-Command. Goliath had been Hudson's second. Demona had been Goliath's. But it was past time to name a new successor. We always had Brooklyn in mind for that roll, but I remember asking Gary whether he felt we had succeeded in establishing that without ever having stated it. He felt we had. What did you guys think when you first saw the episode?
The battle at the bank. On my tape, there's an animation glitch where Dingo hits his head and then seems to intentionally hit his head again. I'm hoping it got fixed for later airings.
Anyway, the battle winds down. No one's done very well. But the Pack is on the run. Erin at this point says, "There's no messing with the big boys." Proving that the Pack was no longer competitive.
Wolf yells, "This isn't over!" sounding very much like Hakon to my ears.
Lex wants to pursue, but Brooklyn already the subconscious leader of everyone's choice, says, "Helping Goliath is more important."
Hudson gooses Goliath to choose a second. Refuses the job himself. This is another example of Hudson being the guardian of tradition. He knows they live in a brave new world. But he wants to preserve what worked in the old one as well.
Erin says, "I think Goliath's going to choose the red guy." Meaning Brooklyn. I am briefly horrified that my own kids don't reliably know the names of the lead characters. (Of course, before last week, we hadn't watched the series in a year. But still...)
I love the idea of Coyote's head knocking on the door of the Pack's ship. For starters it's so odd to get a knock while in flight. Second, how did he knock. Why with his forehead of course...
The trio begin their competition. Bronx is disgusted.
The new Pack is revealed. What was everyone's reaction? The Coyote-Head had laid out the options, but were you at all shocked at the upgrades when you first saw them?
I like the creepy Addams Family moment with Jackal's arm. I like that this Wolf and Dingo are now competitive in strength with Goliath.
I find it interesting that we had Goliath say, "What manner of trickery is this?" instead of "What sorcery is this?" I mean, who were we kidding, right?
Hudson then brings up the Archmage's sorcery. Just a reminder that the Archmage existed for what we knew was coming in Avalon.
I don't know if this was fixed for reairing, but their's a big mistake in this first battle. Goliath spots COYOTE the robot flying off and goes off alone in pursuit. This was supposed to be him spotting just the little head. He goes off after the head, thinking he'll find Xanatos or something. Then the giant Robot steps forward. Would have been a much better reveal.
I love the interaction as the Pack chooses a leader.
Cree is great reading: "Coyote, honey..." and "I find him very attractive." Hyena's attraction to Coyote was a fun running gag. But did it influence her choice of upgrades?
Jackal is grossed out, proving as ever, that he's just a tad saner than his sister. "Well, that's sicker than usual." He sides with Wolf, just for that reason.
Leaving Dingo with the deciding vote.
More animation errors that I hope got corrected eventually: Fox's lips don't move. So suddenly we're hearing her internal monologue.
Note that Broadway actually foils the most crime in their nightly competition. We did that on purpose. To show that was never the point.
Xanatos says, "Clever move." to end an act.
Then we come back, and he's confident saying, "I think I've still got the edge." Of course that line was a literal reuse of the line from "The Edge". We had a lot of so-so animation in this episode. It forced us to cut the show tight enough that we had to add footage. So we reprinted the shot of X&F playing chess and reused the old line to fill the space.
Final battle.
Everytime Hyena's hand folded backwards, Erin would say: "Eww, that's disgusting!"
CONTINUITY: Just as Lex dislikes the Pack, Bronx seems to particularly dislike Coyote. He's always chewing on that bot, forcing Coyote to threaten to "send this puppy into orbit!"
I love Hyena's line: "I wonder if Gargoyles taste like chicken?" Can't help thinking she'd sincerely like to know.
Frank Paur had this idea that when Wolf got angrier, he'd morph even wolfier. But the animation never quite worked on that. It was a great idea, but the transformation doesn't play dramatically, so it just looks like the model changes part way through the fight.
Coyote's demise was heavily influenced by the first Terminator movie. We keep destroying the darn bot, but it just keeps getting up.
Morgan reappears. I was never wild about his "Hospital, Machine Shop or Vet" line. It's okay, but it seemed a bit too flip.
Goliath, like the production staff, had his choice in mind all along. Brooklyn. By now the trio's come around to the same idea, except Brooklyn himself, who suddenly realizes the weight he'll be carrying around. A prelude to "Kingdom", as he says to Goliath, "Be careful. I'm in no hurry to take your place."
(Nice moment in their when Hudson pets Bronx. It has nothing specific to do with anything else, but it's a nice touch.)
Fox & Xanatos make such a cool couple. I love that he doesn't mind losing to her. Happier to have found a true equal.
And I love that chilling, funny ending: "Care to play again?"
Ever wonder about their next game?
Anyway, there's my ramble. Where's yours?
matt writes...
on Fox and David Xanatos's Marriage certificate/license, who signed as witnesses to their marriage? i mean, traditionally its the Best Man and Maid of Honor, but we can see why that wouldn't work...
did Owen sign it? did Petros?
also, i apologize if this was asked before, but, was Halcyon Renard or Anastasia invited to the wedding? if so, why didn't they come?
Greg responds...
1. Owen, probably.
2. I think not. Partially, because Fox was semi-estranged from her father at least. But MOSTLY because of the instructions Xanatos got from himself. Neither Fox or Xanatos are sentimental enough (at least not that they'd admit) to risk having either of Fox's parents there, when potentially they might interfere.
Anonymous writes...
Foreshadowing in Future Tense
Does the Alexander of 2198 own any exo-suits like the one seen in the Future Tense episode?
Does Brooklyn and Demona look like the Demona and Brooklyn in Future Tense?
Greg responds...
Generally, I try to avoid making 'decisions' here that will inhibit the artistic freedom of future collaborators, but...
Alex. Potentially, yes. But since, Alex is kidnapped and put in stasis in the first episode it's going to be a non-issue for some time.
Brooklyn. Initially, Brooklyn would look very much like Brooklyn from Hunter's Moon. Later he may wind up with a look similar to Future Tense -- though with one major change.
Demona. Potentially.
Anonymous writes...
Alexander¡¯s immortality
Why does Alexander Xanatos hide his immortality from the general public? How does he do it? Do the Illuminati know of his unique heritage? Any others?
Greg responds...
NS.
Gipdac writes...
1) In 2198 is Alexander married?
2) If yes, to whom?
3) Is s/he human, Child of Oberon, gargoyles or New Olympian?
4) Has Alexander been married between 1994 and 2198?
5) If yes, how many times?
Greg responds...
1. ns
2. see 1
3. see 1
4. ns
5. see 4
Anonymous writes...
1.What does Alexander Fox Xanatos IV look like? Does he look like the one in Future Tense? Is he married?
2.How powerful is he in magic? Why didn't he use his magic to flee the area when the Space-Spawn came?
Greg responds...
1. Though I'm determined to keep design issues open for the time being, Alex does, in my mind, look much like his adult persona in Future Tense.
1a. Not telling.
2. Enough.
2a. No warning at all. None. He was transported right into stasis.
Anonymous writes...
Why isn¡¯t Merlin, Oberon¡¯s own kid, considered a Child of Oberon? Why is Alex considered one?
Greg responds...
Well, let's begin with this: Considered by whom?
Alex was considered to have the potential to be one by Oberon & Titania.
Merlin and Oberon have long-standing issues, but what makes you think that he isn't considered a Child of Oberon?
Anonymous writes...
By 2198 how many fae are off Avalon?
Care to give a few names?
Greg responds...
Very few.
Puck. Alex.
Lexy writes...
Hey again..
At mug-a-guest you mentioned that Alex will be living for a
long time. This due to his 3rd race genes. My question is if he lives longer will he also age slower?
We didn't get to see a lot of him on the show so I was wondering if he was actually going to age slower, or just age as a normal human and then hit a point where he aged slower.
Thanks again!
Greg responds...
The aging of Alex is a story in and of itself. Initially he will age like a normal human. Right now, in August of 2001, he's five. That's all I'm saying at this point.
Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...
In one of your replies you mention that AI has progressed a long way by 2198 thanks to a group {species none specific} of people that included Fox. You mention her with 'Anastasia', would might mean that it is only a reference to Matrix's origin, but it reminded me of a question I have been meaning to ask for a while: How much of a scientist is Fox? Titania seems quite accomplished in that realm, (and I assume her knowledge of the physical world makes her magic that much more effective), but Fox seemed to know her way around a lab as well.
Greg responds...
Janine Renard had two scientists for parents, so she does know her way around a lab. I'd say she has a high school education in science PLUS all the stuff she learned by assisting her parents as a youth. But I think she generally rebelled against their more -- shall we say -- academic pursuits. She hasn't studied any particular scientific discipline. She has no advanced degrees. She's very bright, obviously. But she's not a scientist by either method or inclination or training.
Anonymous writes...
Is Fox still alive?
Greg responds...
Why? What have you heard?
Anonymous writes...
How did Alex get elected to the position of Secretary General? Why would the Illuminati which controls almost everything on Earth before the Space-Spawn invasion allow the election/installation of someone who they don't approve of considering they didn't vouch for his release?
Greg responds...
Your premise is faulty.
Jacob writes...
Sorry, two mistakes in my first letter. Here's the correct(?) one:
Let's say someone would put a spell on Fox so that she can only say the FULL truth and leave nothing out, what would she answer if she's asked what Titania had whispered to her in the night Oberon wanted to take Alex away to Avalon?
Greg responds...
"ARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!"
Lord Sloth writes...
Gathering questions:
1a) Why does Oberon need a tracker to find Puck(a fellow fey), when both Titanya and the Wierd Sisters were able to locate the Gargoyles in the clock tower? b)Why could Oberon sence Titanya and not Puck? c)How was Budicca able to track Owen from the Park to the castle? Had Owen been frolicking in the park earlier?
2a)Did Titanya want things to end up as they did from the begining? b) If she did, how was she sure Puck would of shown up? c) If she didn't, then should I assume she wanted Gargoyles to help take the baby, and it wasn't reverse pyicoligy?
3)Why were nither Rinard, Vogel, nor the Gargoyle's put to sleep? Am I right in thinking Titanya protected them?
4)How did Rinard know about the danger? Did Xanatos or Titanya ask him for help?
5a) Why would the people of manhaten, think this was all a midsummer night's dream, with all the car crashes, injuries and, probably, deaths that occured? b) Would not all that damage break the non-interferance law?
Good luck with these, for all our sakes.
Greg responds...
1a. He was in the mood. Besides, Puck is better at hiding.
1b. Puck is not his wife/soulmate.
1c. It's a magic flute, man. Just flow with it!
2a. So she says.
2b. Intuition?
2c. I'm not going to interpret it for you.
3. Renard and Vogel were not in Manhattan when the spell was first cast. Also they had an energy field around the bridge.
4. Yes. Xanatos informed him.
5a. That's Oberon's interpretation.
5b. From his point of view, he didn't cause the damage. He was merely taking the mortals out of a conflict that would have interfered with their lives. The damage was a minor repercussion.
Gipdac writes...
Okay, originally someone asked you what made Anubis connected to death. Your answer was "Fay are tied to the pure magic of Earth. Individual fae have different 'connections', just as individual humans have different talents, etc. Anubis and other "death gods" come by it naturally". My question is this:
1) Does Alex have any special connection? Any particular magical talent that comes naturally to him?
2) If so, what are they?
Greg responds...
1. Too soon to tell, isn't it?
2. See 1.
Nieuws writes...
What is the thing on Fox's Eye and where did it come from?
Greg responds...
It's a tatoo.
Sloth writes...
I was reading your rambles on "OutFoxed", and you mentioned that there was a clue that hinted Fox was Halcyen's daughter by the fact that his last name is Rynard. Could you explane how there is a connection between the words rynard and fox, cause I can't see it. I don't even know what rynard means.
Greg responds...
In French, "renard" means "fox". See, learn something new every day.
Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...
I was looking over the [finally] completed description of the future series and after happily ooing and aahing, I had a few questions.
-1- I noticed that Broadway and Angela's biological children had similar sounding names, (arthurian in my mind). Since they were not named specifically by the parents but rather as clan children, (I assume), I was wondering if this was intentional. Are rookeries intentionally named with similar names, like the angel theme with the Avalon eggs? Do near rookeries share somewhat similar names and distant ones more different ones? Am I reading way too much into a statistical sample of three?
[Side question- Broadway, raised by Gargoyles would not care who was his biological child, but Angela was raised by humans, even if they did try to follow the gargoyle mode. Does she care a little, or at least think about it?]
-2- Nicolas Natzilani Maza, (please excuse my spelling, I am composing this offline): From which of the current Maza siblings does he descend?
-3- Alexander Fox Xanatos IV: I have a feeling I am being a bit dense here, but is he the same Alex as Alexander Fox Xanatos I but covering for extreme longevity?
-4- I don't remember any mention of the New Olympians. Do they play a notable role? If not, where are they?
-5- Logistically I am confused about something- In a perfect world all the Gargoyle spin offs would be running at the same time for an indefinate amount of time. More specifically Time Dancer and Gargoyles 2198 would be running at once. [Which leads to another side question: What you call the series after the first year?] As I see it the first year or two wouldn't be a problem- Timedancer Brooklyn would be a couple of years younger than future Brooklyn and we just wont see him describing in detail events that haven't happened yet in Time Dancer to people in 2198.
The problems start when it comes time for Time Dancer Brooklyn to go to 2198. The easiest way I can see it is, we see him leave, we see him return ten years older all in one ep, "wow! I just spent ten years fighting aliens in the future! But I wont say anything more as not to let you know too much about what will be." Then we have a Time Dancer Brooklyn ten or so years older than the Future one and a massive, sustained chuck of time that he can't give away to the audience. It seems like it would be a very awkward.
Thanks... And enjoy the con!! I hope you give a passing thought to those of us stuck on the other side of the continent. (This whole being an adult with a job kinda sucks sometimes.)
Greg responds...
1. You probably are reading a bit too much into a statistical sample of three. Plus, keep in mind that the Manhattan Clan doesn't exactly have deeply held traditions in naming. The whole concept is fairly new to them.
1a. I think Angela does think about it. But keep in mind, she was group raised. This way, as a parent, she has more children to love. That suits her fine.
2. I'm SO not telling.
3. Yes.
4. They will eventually play a roll. Technology-wise, the rest of the world has caught up to them. I wouldn't fully re-intro them right away, although their leader will be kidnapped along with Alex.
5. You worry too much. I should have such worries.
matt writes...
1. before "The Gathering", did anyone besides Xanatos and demona know that Owen was Puck? you've said before that Fox didn't know, correct?
2. from what i know of Oberon and his relationship with Puck, i doubt that bringing him the Phoinex Gate would've convinced Oberon to let Puck stay in the mortal world any longer. what do you think?
Greg responds...
1. Correct.
2. Might have worked. Depended how Puck approached him. He's known Oberon a lot longer than you have.
Todd Jensen writes...
A few questions, now, about "Gargoyles 2198":
1. I've noticed a few parallel elements in it with "Future Tense", as follows:
Demona joining forces with the resistance movement.
The LXMs serving as a parallel to "Cyber-Lex".
Coyote-X as a parallel to the Xanatos Program (artificial intelligences out to conquer the world, both derived ultimately from Xanatos - although I doubt that Coyote-X has any direct connection to Xanatos, he did originate the Coyote line of robots).
Were these three elements intended as parallels to "Future Tense", a la the destruction of the clock tower in the original series?
2. What sort of occupation do you imagine the Space-Spawn making on Earth? A really tyrannical regime of the sort where Earth's population is reduced to slave labor, or a more remote occupation where they pretty much let the Earthlings go on with their lives, though now as subjects of the Space-Spawn Empire?
3. How is it that Coyote-X is out to conquer, first the planet, then the galaxy? I will confess that I have something of a problem with the notion of a robot or artificial intelligence out to conquer the world; such a goal strikes me as more fitted to an "organic being" with such emotions as greed, ambition, arrogance, etc., than to an artificial intelligence, which I simply can't imagine developing emotions (truth to tell, my own thoughts on machines are pretty much the same as those of Goliath in "Outfoxed" - machines know only what they are programmed to know; it's living beings, such as humans and gargoyles, who are capable of making decisions, and choosing between the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do). I didn't have any problems with the Matrix undertaking this route in "Walkabout" since it was portrayed here as merely a logical extension of its programming (to bring about order to the terrain of the world; it was merely misinterpreting its mission) rather than being motivated by power-lust. However, I'm not certain as to how Coyote-X developed its goal. (Of course, artificial intelligences could have come a long way by 2198, and maybe by that time they have developed emotions and the weaknesses and failings of living beings like humans and gargoyles). Of course, I doubt that you want to fill us in on the details yet, but I just thought that I'd mention it.
Greg responds...
1. Yes and no. I love playing with the Future Tense expectaions. But on another level, it's just the characters telling me what they want. I know what Lex does in the late nineties early "oughts". I know what that leads to in turn. I know Demona well enough to know that she's sure not gonna like the Space-Spawn after they steal all the Gargoyle Eggs. And I know what happens to Coyote and how he's going to evolve and upgrade. So maybe Puck was being a bit prophetic. After all, the characters are deciding things for themselves. And he wasn't half wrong.
2. In the immortal words of Abe Simpson, "A little from column A and a little from column B."
3. Well, artificial intelligence has come a long way by 2198. Thanks in no small part to Coyote, Coldsteel, Lexington, Matrix, Fox and Anastasia. (An odd group. But there you go.)
Demoness writes...
In the "Gathering pt 1" Oberon reminds Titania "It is my law not to interfer in human affairs. Let the woman keep her child."
Then a minute later he says: "If it pleases you, you have my permission to take the child."
Xanatos: "It's alright, no one is going anywhere. It is the epiphany [sp?] in interfering in human affairs by taking a child from its parents. By your own law, you can't do this."
Oberon: "I've made up my mind."
Xanatos is right....So Oberon just broke his law by trying to take Alex whether he is of Fae blood or not. He would still be interfering in Fox and David's lives. Doesn't he realize that he made a big mistake concerning his law? Or is it just because he's the King and he can do whatever he wants?
Greg responds...
That's your point of view. Not his. Not even mine necessarily. I'm not saying he was right about taking Alexander in any kind of moral sense. But I certainly see his point from a "law-interpretation" sense. Alex was a "Child of Oberon" (not literally). He therefore was not a mortal and not subject to the non-interference rule. Quite the contrary, Oberon had declared the Gathering. Alex was REQUIRED to attend by Oberon's law. Since he couldn't get there on his own power, Oberon was simply providing a taxi service. Giving them an hour -- monstrously cruel as it sounds to us -- seemed to him like a generous concession. After all, Alex was due in Avalon yesterday -- literally.
You can see the 'fairness' of his judgment in the way he deals with Fox. He could have insisted that she come too. Costing Xanatos both wife and child. But he ruled that Fox was "regrettably human". And thus he could not touch her. From his point of view he was being very fair.
And mentioning Oberon's earlier comment is specious. He didn't know who Alex was at the time.
Xanatos certainly, and obviously, has his point of view. But who is he to interpret Oberon's law relative to Oberon himself. Who had the backing of Titania by the way in said interpretation.
Anonymous writes...
What does the Master Matrix and the LXM robots have to do with the Matrix that we see in Walkabout?
Greg responds...
A lot.
Anonymous writes...
Have the names of Oberon and Titania's kids been mentioned in AskGreg?
Greg responds...
Two have. Merlin and Fox. Oh, you mean the kids they had together?
NO. Not that I can recall.
Rob Irwin writes...
#3
When Puck showed himself to Xanatos and offered a wish or life time service, did immortality cross divid's mind, was he not interested in it at the time, or did he think he could get his service and try to live forever another day?
I'll add this one too cause it's about Xanatos. What were Xan's thinkings when he made the steel clan and decided to kill the gargs. He went through a lot of trouble and money to bring them back just to have them steal some disks and then pulverize them. And when he gets out of jail he wants to go back to using them. Can this be explained?
One more about future stories if it's alright. Was Xanatos compleatly turned to a "good guy" or would he latter have had his moarlity conflict with his need for immortality. Same about Fox
Thank U
Greg responds...
1. The latter. Owen's service was valuable. There must be a hundred ways to become immortal.
2. He kept underestimating them at first. He learned not to do that later.
3. Xanatos and Fox are never good for the sake of being good. Nor are they bad for the sake of being bad. They are immoral. The only thing that really changed for them are some of their priorities.
Sapphire writes...
Sorry Matt for picking on you I was just joking any question time.....
Greg you said earlier that Talon would get upset when his sister takes Goliath to be her mate. I was wondering why would he get upset over his sister's choice about the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with?
Greg responds...
Think about it and get back to me.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
What is Xanatos's mother's first name?
Greg responds...
Not saying at this time.
Phil writes...
I've been away for awhile (due to computer problems), and now I'm trying to catch up.
I read your list of characters ages (from about three weeks ago) and you gave Alex's tentative birthdate as 7/9. That's the same day as mine! Cool!
More later
Greg responds...
I can't confirm that Phil, because I'm at home and my timeline is at the office. But it is cool. I assume there are years separating you two. OR else, you're quite the prodigy.
Kathy Lowe (AKA The Gatekeeper) writes...
Just my $.02 worth on "Outfoxed". I'll leave the in-depth analysis up to Todd and Aris.
When I saw Preston Vogel for the first time, I honestly thought that is was Owen. All the characters extremely complex; I never thought that it was a copout from an animation standpoint. I went right to wondering what Owen's hidden agenda was. All the other villains had a hidden agenda, why not Owen. His "I've got a secret" attitude was evident from "The Awakening".
By the end of the episode I started having doubts that Vogel was Owen, but I didn't entirely dismiss the idea until I watched "Golem". The amount of care that Vogel had to give to a very sick Renard was more time consuming that even Owen could handle.
While I was expecting a hidden agenda out of this episode, (how could I not, Xanatos was involved via Fox) I never expected it to be Fox's agenda which was her relation to Renard. While I definitely understood what the "Tests" were, my vocabulary is woefully inadequate, so I did not know that Renard meant Fox.
I was not surprised by a pregnant cartoon character. I grew up with the Flintstones; and Wilma being pregnant with Pebbles. Back then, knitting baby booties was the way to indicate that someone was expecting. (The last sentence is for those readers who are half our ages <g> Boy do I feel old)
Greg responds...
Yeah, me too.
Obviously, Fox wasn't as ground-breaking as Wilma. But I think she's up there.
Interesting side note, Laura San Giamcomo and Jonathan Frake's wife Genie Francis were both expecting at the same time as Fox.
matt writes...
okay, you don't have to tell me what Titania whispered to Fox, but Xanatos was standing right there, did he hear what Titania whispered? if not, did Fox tell him what Titania whispered to her?
Greg responds...
X did not hear. Fox did not tell him.
Todd Jensen writes...
One amusing little historical note about Canmore, which I must confess spooks me a little. In actual history, two of his sons, both of whom became Kings of Scotland after him, were named Alexander and David. In the context of "Gargoyles", I must confess that I find that a bit on the creepy side.
Greg responds...
You and me both, buster.
One of the many freaky little things leaking into our reality from the Gargoyles Universe.
The One writes...
1) Does Titania truly love Oberon or is he more of a pawn that she uses while she rules through him? What initially attracted the two together?
2) What are Titania's feelings toward's Halcyon Renard's illness? Obviously, it would have been in her power to cure the disease or indirectly use it to create some scientific cure. Why hasn't she tried to heal Renard?
3) What are Halcyon Renard's feelings towards Titania/Anastasia? Is he bitter, angry? How does he feel about the fact that Titania shall stay young, beautiful, and alive forever while he is condemned to rot before his death?
Greg responds...
1) She loves him. And he is very attractive to her. He has power and unpredictability. A certain nobility. Intense loyalty. Command. He's probably great in bed too, frankly.
We've tended to see him from a certain point of view. Not hers.
2. It's neither that simple or that easy. I reject your premise. But she still cares for him, if that's what you want to know.
3. I think he misses her terribly. I don't think he quite has his head around the entire Titania thing. But I also think to him, even before he knew about Titania, Anastasia always seemed young and beautiful. And on some level, that was a comfort. He's not looking to bring the whole world down with him. Let alone those he cares for.
Demona Taina writes...
Well, this is one silly question that I've been pondering about ever since.. well, ever since I first saw the Steel Clan. Why did Xanatos model them after Goliath? I mean, look at the hair, the wings, the face; it is clearly him. Why did he choose Goliath out of the other gargoyles?
Thanks for your time. :)
Greg responds...
Goliath was the biggest and strongest.
Alex "Cyclonus" Bishansky writes...
Did the Illuminati ever realize that Xanatos set up his wealth and power through them via time-travel when he sent that coin?
Greg responds...
Not necessarily. They certainly watched the young Xanatos with interest.
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
About Angela: Right after the World Tour, what are her opinions about...
1-Macbeth?
2-Fox?
3-Dingo?
Thanks.
Greg responds...
1. He seems all right.
2. She doesn't seem to trustworthy. But at least she's not trying to kill me.
3. He seems all right.
Todd Jensen writes...
A question about Xanatos as portrayed in "Future Tense". This was the last episode in the series where Xanatos was the antagonist (even though it may not count as such, given that it turned out that it wasn't really Xanatos). And what recently struck me about it was that here Xanatos, for once, was acting in a manner more like a conventional cliched cartoon villain than he did anywhere else in the series. He took over Manhattan by force, enslaved the population and plunged them into poverty and misery, had the city patrolled by Mutate soldiers on the ground and Steel Clan robots in the air, murdered his own son without even an ounce of pity or remorse, and was plotting to seize control over the entire planet. All very evocative of the stereotypical super-villain that one would expect to find in a more conventional animated series.
Also, in this episode, Goliath did (momentarily) "destroy" Xanatos (or the Xanatos Program masquerading as him) in the cyberspace battle (just before it turned out that it was really Lexington operating the Xanatos Program behind the scenes), in what could count as their final battle.
So, was "Future Tense" designed, in part, to trick the audience into thinking that "Gargoyles" was going to end with a more conventional showdown between Goliath and Xanatos, a more stereotypical "final battle", before going on to reveal, almost immediately afterwards (given that "The Gathering" was the story that came immediately after "Future Tense"), the real manner in which the Goliath/Xanatos conflict came to an end (through the two making peace after the gargs helped Xanatos against Oberon)? A kind of "tricking the audience raised on more conventional adventure cartoon series" method similar to that used in "Leader of the Pack" (where it initially seems as if Xanatos is out for revenge, but it turns out that it wasn't the real Xanatos and that the real one had very different and much more practical goals)?
Greg responds...
Yep. I mean that wasn't the only thing going on, but we did so love to play with and against expectations.
But it's also fun, even if it's a fantasy within our fantasy, to see such opposites go at it to the death. I knew that wasn't they're true destiny, so it was nice to slip a version of it in.
Todd Jensen writes...
In "Monsters", was Sevarius working for Xanatos or himself when he was at Loch Ness? He had the Xanatos Goon Squad along with him to help him out, but nothing that he said really confirmed that he was working for Xanatos; he appeared to be after the Loch Ness Monsters more to satisfy his own personal interest in genetic tinkering than from any interests that Xanatos had.
Greg responds...
For Xanatos, though X gave him fairly free reign to keep him happily employed.
Yadira writes...
"Outfoxed"
In this episode, one of the key things we learned is that Fox is pregnant and she breaks the news to her father, Renard. What we don't see is how she breaks the news to her husband. If you had time to explore this, how did Fox tell Xanatos about her delicate condition and what did she feel might be Xanatos' reaction. How did Xanatos truly react at first upon hearing her news.
Greg responds...
He was thrilled. I believe she told him as soon as she got off the phone.
Mel. Celestial writes...
Fox and her son has Faeye blood in them; so does that mean that they are able to age slower or become immortal?
Greg responds...
Either are theoretically possible, though it does depend on how one define's immortality.
Aris Katsaris writes...
More of a ramble (or two) than a question but here goes:
I believe that someone here in Ask Greg compared Xanatos to Prospero- both having magical assistants... Anyway I was thinking around the same lines, trying to compare Xanatos with characters from mythology:
My first thought was Gilgamesh (I'll ramble about him next) but then I thought an even better match: namely Sisyphus. And, god, this guy seems the most Xanatosian character I know (I even imagine him played by Frakes). He's *very* intelligent (him and Ulysses are pretty much the two clever men of Greek mythology); something of a trickster; he's considered to be something of a villain; and finally in certain stories he has even tried to find a way to defeat death. Two times in fact. One of them involved binding Thanatos (or Hades - not sure which) pretty similar to what the Emir did in 'Grief'...
So questions:
1. Any thoughts on the above? :-)
2. Sisyphus was punished pretty severely for what was seen as villainy (namely his trying to cheat death and angering Zeus in general)... Other than the brief (though admittedly great) scare that Oberon gave to Xanatos, do you think that Xanatos will get a comeuppance for his crimes? He's done worse than Sisyphus I think...
3. There's a third question but I'll post it serarately in case Todd thinks it a story idea...
Greg responds...
1. Interesting. I can't claim to have been thinking along those lines specifically. Though Odysseus did come to mind, more than once. I guess, I'm just not quite as familiar with Sisyphus' legends...
2. Of course the thing I remember most about Sis is the final punishment. The Sisyphusian task of pushing that boulder up the hill. Xanatos will, on occasion, continue to get his comeuppance. But I can't picture him standing for that kind of punishment -- even in Hell.
Sapphire writes...
In the proposed spin off series The new Olympians you said something about David Xanatos trying to take advantage of the New Olympians. Can you give some details on how he might take advantage of them?
Greg responds...
It's complicated.
matt writes...
why did Xanatos name his skyscraper the "Eyrie Building"?
Greg responds...
Step 1.
Look up "Eyrie" in the dictionary.
Step 2.
If you still need the answer come back with proof of step 1, i.e. the definition.
Oberon writes...
1) If Puck made Xanatos the chioce between Puck and Owen (since Xanatos want immortallity so badly now) would he still make the same chioce.
2) I know that Owen is loyal, but given that he ofered Xanatos a life time of service, does he really want Xanatos to become immortal
Greg responds...
1. Definitely.
2. Owen does. Puck?
matt writes...
What condition does Renard have that confines him to that chair?
He doesn't seem to be doing so well in the last few eps of the series (The Green and The Gathering), was there plans for him to die in the near future?
What would Titania think of this?
Greg responds...
I have never nailed it down. I've been thinking Multiple Schlerosis (spelling?). But I never got around to doing the research that would confirm that his symptoms as displayed on the series fit that disease.
Yes, actually.
She would be very sad.
Entity writes...
Hi Greg,
In "Walkabout," you state that David and Fox really were going to follow through with the Matrix reshaping the planet. I find that pretty jaw-dropping, even if it was to be a selective reshaping. They'd have to basically take over the world in order to do it. Not like they can just do it here or there and go about their business. But onto the specific questions:
1) What in particular did David and Fox have in mind for the world's reshaping? What did they see wrong with it that they sought to righten, or alter in their favor, with the Matrix?
2) How does this goal mesh with Xanatos' pre-established personality? I thought he was already comfortable in the world as it was. And why not? Free trade had evidently benefited him quite well. He was probably the most powerful, non-governmental man on the planet, no? X doesn't seem like the type to rule an empire, like in "Future Tense" (which was a tip-off as to the falsehood of Puck's dream). Rather, he seems to simply want control and power, but in a, well, down-to-earth way.
3) Did Anastasia care?
4) Does Xanatos still have the Matrix technology?
Greg responds...
All right, your 1st paragraph premise is faulty. When did I say that? What were my exact words? Cuz I certainly didn't mean to even imply what you've written here.
1-3) These questions are moot, given the above.
4) Xanatos and Fox still have the research that led to Matrix.
Sapphire writes...
What is David Xanato's view on homosexuality?
Greg responds...
Okay, that's what I figured. Sapphire, did you think this might get a little dull?
David doesn't care. Most of my characters don't.
Chapter XXVII: "Outfoxed"
Time to Ramble...
My three year old son Ben watched the opening titles for about the five hundredth time. On the one hand, he made the point that it was getting dull seeing this same opening. He wanted me to fast-forward to the actual story.
On the other hand, he spent the time reviewing "the rules". How the gargs turn to stone during the day. How Goliath is the leader. Etc.
One thing we always cheated on was how Fortress-2 landed. There it is on the ground awaiting it's maiden voyage, and I just don't see any landing gear.
Vogel is introduced. This is another thing where I had to carefully explain my long-term intent behind the screen in order to get a model for the character that really looked like Owen but wasn't his twin. I remember a lot of people on the Disney Afternoon mailing list reacting negatively to Preston in this episode. Like he was a feeble imitation of Owen. Like we didn't know how to do any other kind of executive assistant. I was simultaneously amused and annoyed by those kind of comments. So now I'm curious. What was your initial reaction to Vogel? And what do you think of him now?
As usual, Travis has old-school attitude when interviewing his subjects. I like that. Makes him more of a character and not just a reporter place-holder.
Fox in casual clothes. With a very casual, yet strangely intense attitude. "I know what happens next," Fox says to David.
My six year old daughter Erin asked, "Why is she watching [Travis' report] like that?" She could tell something was up there.
And in fact, like UPGRADE, this was another episode where we were intentionally trying to show that Fox was David's equal. We show it physically in their martial arts work out. And we show it by giving her a ruthless and complex plot to take Cyberbiotics. In fact, in this episode, when you add in the fact that David is clearly in the dark about her pregnancy test, she seems to be a little equaler than he is.
Fortress-2 takes off. And Goliath sends us into flashback. This is flat-out padding. For some reason, though the script is the same basic length as any of our scripts, this one timed out short after story-boarding was done. (Most of my stories time out too long.) So we added this flashback. I think it was a mistake. It kills the stories momentum, and we already had the sequence later where Renard shows all the important scenelets to Goliath. Those become incredibly redundant. When you add in the "Previously on Gargoyles" opening, it was just too much.
Elisa reveals the show's Hill Street Blues influence by telling Goliath to "be careful out there."
Goliath gets attacked by cybots. As noted, any individual cybot is no match for him. But they have strength in numbers. I wanted to show that Goliath can still kick some ass when motivated. So the cybots shoot at him. And his only response is "That. Stings." Very intense. Unfortunately, I think sound-wise the line gets buried.
And that's a general problem with the episode. On a technical level this just wasn't one of our best. The animation isn't awful, but it's mediocre. Goliath's size relationship gets screwed up here and there. (Particularly in the brig sequences.) The story's padded by flashbacks. Our normally great sound team, didn't do the most inspiring job on this one either. It just generally feels like one that got away from us.
I still think there's some great stuff in it. And the revelation of Fox's pregnancy actually makes it something of a landmark (both for our series and for animated series in general), but the execution never quite lived up to its potential. Oh, well.
CONTINUITY & INTRIGUE
Did anyone remember Cyberbiotics before this ep? Had you ever wondered who Xanatos was stealing from in the pilot? We knew that Cyberbiotics abandoned their underground base, which became the home of the Mutates. Now we were rebuilding the air fortress and revealing that the CYberbiotics Tower is still in business.
Also, Renard mentions Gen-U-Tech. And the revelation that Sevarius and Burnett used to work for Cyberbiotics. Of course, Renard thinks that Xanatos stole Sevarius and Owen away. We know better. We knew even then that Sevarius is much better suited to work for a man like Xanatos than Renard. And of course, now we know why Owen was Xanatos-bound as well. But what did you guys think of that minor revelation at the time?
Renard's opinion of Xanatos is probably colored by his relationship to his daughter: "And that's the least that viper has stolen from me." Did you stop at that moment to consider what that meant and what he meant by the "My Anastasia. My Janine." line? Did anyone (from Renard's name, if nothing else) guess that Fox was his daughter, before the tag? Who did you think Anastasia and Janine were at that time? Or did Goliath's follow up line, "My angel of the night." distract you from considering these questions?
At this point, just before the Janine line, Erin (who has seen these before, but not recently) remembered: "That's Fox's daddy!"
Goliath has some cool lines here too. "I belong to no one." "I serve no master."
And Renard (voiced by Robert Culp to perfection) has some great lines too: "Not my fault, not my fault. You sound like every human employee I've ever FIRED." and "Take some responsibility."
What was fun for me, although maybe for no one else, was (a) to get some hard thoughts about both the need and the difficulty of maintaining personal integrity up onto the screen and (b) doing that by lecturing to Goliath, arguably one of the most "integrous" characters I've ever written. (b) served (a), by showing that even Goliath can be prone to slipping.
The thing is that integrity really matters to me. And yet, I don't know how much of it I exercise in my own life. I really do try. But it's so hard. And not because I'm a dishonest person, but more because I'm lazy. It's easier to shift blame, to tell white lies, etc. The alternative takes effort and vigilance. I think the rewards are immense, even if the costs are too. But I ain't kidding myself about the difficulty.
The martial arts scene. Reminiscent of the scene from the Edge where Owen toppled David. Here we hinted even more strongly that Fox is Renard's daughter. David is basically giving her permission to back out of the plan, to save face and exit, BEFORE she destroys her father. It's not that David really cares about Halcyon. I think he's thinking about his relationship to his own father. David likes to believe (at this stage in the series) that he's evolved beyond the need for a parental relationship. But "Vows" sort of demonstrates that his relationship with Petros is much more complex than that. David still needs parental approval and is somewhat amazed (at least subconsciously) that Fox does not. Again, in this episode, Fox is more than his equal.
And now the doctor calls with test results. David shows legitimate fear here for a moment. He's not thinking pregnancy. He's worried maybe she's sick or something. She enjoys toying with him. Maybe she's just in a mood. But her armor is on in force in this ep. We won't really get INSIDE Fox until "The Gathering" two-parter.
Finally, Goliath acknowledges his crime: "I was wrong." Cary had this great line for Renard: "I'm glad you're gargoyle enough to admit it."
Robert Culp and Peter Scolari were an interesting pair as Renard and Vogel. Culp was tough in the booth. Very precise. Very clear ideas about how he wanted to play the character. Tougher on his performance than Jamie and I were. And the results show.
Peter was a dream to work with. We spent an hour talking after the recording (about Busom Buddies, mostly). He's an incredibly nice guy. And he picked up the character right away. Despite the fact that we didn't have Jeff Bennett there to do a little Owen for him. He just got it.
Until the end, Vogel really plays Renard in this. He knows how much Renard hates whining blame-shifters, so he's constantly saying things like "You can place the blame on me if you like." in order to defuse any of Renard's suspicions.
But in a more subtle way, Renard is unwittingly playing upon Vogel as well. He doesn't intrude on Vogel's phone calls. He treats him with respect and gives him credit ("You and I built this ship together"). Insists that Vogel save the people in the tower, even if it means Renard's own life. We can see that Vogel was willing to take Fox's money for a bit of corporate espionage. But Vogel is not a killer. (It's important to see that he views Goliath as a creature.) This partially explains his turnaround at the end. (Which some people complained about.) All along he's been trying to get Renard to GET OFF THE SHIP. But Renard forces his hand. And when push comes to shove, Vogel likes Renard too much to see him die. "Mr. Vogel, I knew you wouldn't let me down." "You have that effect on people." And then Goliath basically bluffs him at the end there into confessing, screwing up their relationship.
But Goliath fixes it again. His last discussion with Renard sets up the reconciliation between them that must have taken place before "Golem".
At any rate, it's also nice to see Goliath make a NEW friend. This was important, because that has always been Goliath's goals. To make friends with humans on his own terms. Every once in a while, we had to show it working. Couldn't just be ONLY Elisa forever.
Ben weighed in at this point and said, "Daddy, I love Xanatos. And I love Fox." Of course, Ben and Erin dressed up as David and Fox at the last Gathering. In fact they dressed up in the martial arts outfits from this episode. Thus the affinity. I once played Theseus in the play THE WARRIOR'S HUSBAND. And Edmund in KING LEAR. It gave me an on-going affinity for both characters and awakened my interest in "The Bastard" archetype.
Now the tag. I'm usually pretty proud of our tags. They often advance the overall story as much as the entire episode. But this is one of my favorites. "Hello, Janine." "Hello, daddy." Was anyone ready for that? And her attitude: "Almost got you that time, didn't I?" The whole sense that Fox is in all this just for kicks. She's not as acquisitive as her husband. He'd always take the path of LEAST resistance to a goal. If Renard would give Janine the company, X would suggest she ask for it. But she doesn't care about the company. ONLY the game. X likes the game. But he's about RESULTS. All established in one little scene.
And of course that slick little pregnancy revelation. I think that was one of the most revolutionary and flat-out subversive things we did on the whole show. Was anyone ready for that? We had hinted at it with the "genetically compatible" line in "Eye of the Beholder" and obvioulsy with "It's your doctor... with test results." But I think it was quite the shocker.
And Fox is so tough. Pregnant and back on the hang-glider. I love it.
Okay, I'm done. You're turn. Ramble away...
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