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You said: <<At the recording session, Marina Sirtis pointed out that the name didn't work for some reason that I can no longer recall. (Aris, any thoughts?)>>
<shrug> Stefan doesn't sound at all Greek. To me atleast it sounds Scandinavian or French or something. "Stephanos" or "Stefanos" would be Greek but changing these to Stefan (or Steven) would be similar to having Petros anglicizing his name into "Peter".
I don't know if that's what Marina Sirtis had in mind, though.
I think so. Marina (who is at least part-Greek, I believe) probably said that Stefan isn't a Greek name, even though we were asking Morgan to read the part with a Greek accent, indicating he was from there.
I took the opportunity to use the Petros name that I had wanted to use from the beginning, instead of switching over to Stefanos or something.
It's all starting to come back to me... :)
Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor
Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."
Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.
Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.
Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.
Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.
PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).
"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?
I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.
I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".
One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?
Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.
(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")
To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!
I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.
The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.
I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?
It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.
For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")
I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.
Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.
Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.
The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?
Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.
I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.
I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.
Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.
How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.
That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:
"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."
pretty cool stuff.
I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.
And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.
"What am I to do?"
Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?
Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.
"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.
I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.
Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)
Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.
Saw "VOWS" last night with the family. I'll ramble on that one shortly, but here's the memo from November '94. Shari Goodhartz wrote the outline, which Michael Reaves edited. Shari's entire story was more or less set at the Eyrie Building. It was about Demona and Xanatos using the wedding to get half of a magical talisman from Goliath. Goliath prevents them from using this macguffin, but realizes once and for all that he and Demona are over.
As I noted below, it seemed like that wasn't enough. So I took ALL of Shari's story and CRUSHED it into Act One. Then I came up with the Time Travel story that was the heart of VOWS. All of Acts Two and Three as presented in the memo below are my work. But I think Shari and Michael did a great job of executing it in this jam-packed episode.
One little tidbit. Petros was my original name for Xanatos' father. (I went to college with a guy named Petros.) But Shari and/or Michael named the dad "Stefan", which I went with here. At the recording session, Marina Sirtis pointed out that the name didn't work for some reason that I can no longer recall. (Aris, any thoughts?) So I jumped in and rechristened him Petros. Later we realized that both Elisa and David had fathers who had been named variations on Peter. To me, that was a very cool thing.
Notes on "Vows" Outline...
Basically, it still didn't seem like we had enough story. So I compressed what was here and tried to extrapolate forward to fill out acts 2 and 3.
I'm calling it the PHOENIX GATE. It can be used as a gateway to anywhere and anywhen. (The Gate will, I believe, eventually give us our Battle of Britain Story. And give the Archmage a powerful weapon for reaching and conquering Avalon.) By combining the two halves of the Phoenix Gate and invoking the Latin translation of the phrase: "Burn down the walls of time and space!", the gate opens in flame and sucks up anyone in the immediate vicinity, transporting them to the place and time chosen by the invoker. But choosing requires incredible concentration. Otherwise, the chooser's emotional or mental whim of the moment may cause the gate to drop everyone off at Burger King instead of Fort Knox.
So we're going to do a time travel story. Which means we need to establish traveling rules for our series. I'm going with the most conservative, most restrictive rules possible, because more than any other type of fantasy or science fiction convention, time travel is really subject to logic abuse. So...
Whatever's happened in the past has already happened, including the actions of our time travelers. Recorded history may be incomplete or incorrect, but true history cannot be changed. When Demona and Goliath go back in time to meet the young Demona, both of the older gargoyles are seeking to change or influence the young Demona's history. But this meeting already took place. The older Demona remembers it. (Maybe not every precise detail, and maybe she didn't fully understand the event at the time, but she does remember it.) Whatever influence the modern gargoyles had on her has already been figured into the events that followed, many of which have already been depicted in other episodes. (Sadly, in this case, neither Goliath or Demona had any real sustained influence on the younger Demona at all. That's the tragic flaw of both Demonas. They just never learn.)
WHERE AND WHEN ARE WE GOING?
Castle Wyvern. 975 A.D. The castle is ruled by the 21 year old Prince Malcolm of Wyvern. Malcolm's chief advisors are the 35 year old Captain of the Guard [NOTE: per my recent work on the timeline, the Captain was 29 years old in 975.]; the Archmage (nine years younger than when he appeared in "Long Way to Morning"), and Hudson who is biologically 49. Young warriors, Goliath and Demona are both biologically 19, (in "Long Way..." they were more like 23). If you have space for them, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway are all biologically nine. Bronx hasn't hatched yet. In contrast, our modern Goliath is biologically 29 years old and Hudson's 59.
That's the theme. Vows. When you keep them. When you can't. Why you do or don't. Don't hesitate to play it up.
In thinking about it, I think Stefan Xanatos should be a naturalized American Citizen living in a north eastern fishing community. Maybe somewhere in Maine. He's still Greek, but he emigrated before David was born. That way, David Xanatos could have been born and raised to pursue (and pervert) the American Dream.
1. Night by some landmark, (maybe the Goldencup Bakery Building or the Cyberbiotics Tower). DAVID XANATOS (in armor) and GOLIATH fight. No stolen Cyberbiotics devices. I really don't want to sweat this scene too much. There are a hundred ways that this could have begun, and in the interest of getting to our main story quicker, I don't want to spend a lot of time "prologing" our prologue. But for the sake of consistency, I'll posit the following: Xanatos left a vaguely menacing message for Goliath with ELISA, whom he can reach easily enough at the precinct house. (The location of the rendezvous itself may have suggested bad news.) Goliath, prepared for a trap but not about to hide from danger, went to the stated rendezvous and, expecting the worse, waded into battle before Xanatos could get a word in edgewise. Well, Xanatos is always up for a little workout, so he fought back with relish, taking his time to reveal the real reason he had asked Goliath to come: He wants Goliath to be best man at his wedding tomorrow night. As a little incentive, he's invited DEMONA, and wrested a promise that she'll be on her best behavior throughout the event. [Reveal as much or as little of the "prologing" as necessary in order to make the scene play.]
2. Clock Tower just before Dawn. HUDSON seems strangely ambivalent, but Elisa and BROOKLYN can't believe Goliath would even consider going to the wedding. They have a hundred reasons each why it's obvious lunacy. Goliath doesn't put up much of a counter-argument. He knows they're right. He won't go. Dawn comes. They all turn to stone. Elisa heads home.
3. Castle during the day. In the courtyard, Xanatos waits for something, still in his armor but with the helmet off. A helicopter lands, piloted by FOX and carrying STEFAN XANATOS, a big, tough, weathered but honest Greek fisherman. Stefan is a little put off by his son's armored attire, but tries at first to make the best of an awkward situation. He is teasingly superstitious about his son seeing Fox on the day of the wedding, but the happy couple make their own luck and patronizingly ignore his concerns, which darkens Stefan's mood. Fox exits to get dressed. David asks his dad, what he thinks of the place. Stefan is frankly appalled by the conspicuous consumption. Why does his son need a place like this? "Oh, reason not the need, father. I wanted it. So I took it." Stefan is disgusted by his son's attitude. Why does he need to wear armor? David assures him, the armor is purely defensive. Defense against what? What kind of life does his son lead? He think David would have been better off being a humble fisherman, like himself: "In fact, if I ever get my hands on the man who sent you that coin, I swear I'll teach him a lesson for meddling with my family." David smiles when his Dad brings up "the coin". That's ancient history, Pop. Besides, that coin was only worth about 20 grand. David's now worth "considerably more". But Dad's not letting him off the hook. If he had never received that coin anonymously, he'd never have become what he is now. "You know, Dad, someday I'm going to prove to you that I really am a self-made man. And that's a promise." Besides, if the castle and the armor upset you, wait until you meet the best man.
On cue, OWEN enters with the JUDGE who is to perform the ceremony. Owen has prepared a little videotape of the gargoyles for Stefan and the Judge to watch. That way, they won't swallow their tongues when they see Goliath and Demona. As they all head inside, Owen questions whether this is necessary, will Goliath really show? He'll be here, Xanatos assures him, "I'd take an oath on it."
4. Back at the clock tower during the day, we push in on the stone Goliath and ripple dissolve to his dream/memory.
5. Castle Wyvern, 975 A.D., night. YOUNG GOLIATH finds YOUNG DEMONA standing on the tower with YOUNGISH HUDSON. Demona seems ridiculously happy to see him. Goliath doesn't want to miss PRINCE MALCOLM'S Wedding. She seems a bit distracted. She looks at Hudson, who says "Go on, then." She and Goliath glide down to one of the upper windows of the Great Hall. From there, they watch this strange human ceremony of bonding, including the exchange of rings. Goliath comments on the beauty of the symbolism or something, and Demona takes out the PHOENIX GATE. She separates the two pieces and hands him one. She swears she will never stop loving him. (If she seems a little too intense, we'll chalk it up at this stage to the emotion of the moment.) Goliath takes his half of the gate, and somewhat awed by her intensity, makes a similar vow. They embrace, stroking each other's hair. (The Gargoyle equivalent of kissing.)
6. Dissolve back out to the Clock Tower at Dusk. Goliath and the others explode awake. Goliath goes to a secret hiding place in the clock tower. (Behind the comatose, COLDSTONE, perhaps.) We see the GRIMORUM and the EYE OF ODIN, as well as Goliath's half of the Gate. (He had hidden it a thousand years ago in a hollow brick at the castle, which Xanatos had transported to NYC unaware of its contents. Goliath had retrieved it before moving to the Clock Tower.) He clutches the gate-piece in his huge hand and leaves, never giving the other gargoyles a chance to talk him out of what even he must realize is a foolhardy quest. Hudson watches him go.
7. Night at the castle. Xanatos and Owen wait in the courtyard for Goliath. Both are now dressed in tuxedos, and Xanatos is wearing a lapel pin that depicts a pyramid with an eye at its apex radiating light. Owen questions whether he should be wearing the emblem of the ILLUMINATI SOCIETY in public. Xanatos says cryptically that it's a necessary risk. [By the way, I have no idea if this is an Illuminati symbol or not. But it seems to fit.] Goliath arrives. Owen offers him a bow-tie. Goliath is not amused. Xanatos gives him Fox's wedding ring to hold. That's what the best man does, you see. Hold the ring, until the couple exchanges vows.
The three enter the Great Hall. Everyone is there. The judge and Stefan have already seen Demona, but Goliath is even more startling thanks to his imposing size. Fox is wearing a white dress, but something non-traditional and sexy. And Demona broods. Goliath approaches her, clutching the gate-piece tightly in his fist. She does not even want to talk to him. She feels she has to attend this farce because Xanatos insisted, and she needs to keep him as an ally. But she cannot fathom why Xanatos wants Goliath here. Goliath attempts to remind her of the last wedding they attended together, but she is not interested in reminiscing.
The wedding ceremony begins, rather informally at first. Keep it very short. (At some point, the Judge should ask Fox's real name. Fox coldly informs him that "Fox" is legally her real name now.) We get to the exchange of rings. Goliath hands Xanatos one for Fox. Demona hands Fox one for Xanatos. Demona looks across at Goliath and seems to break down. Just as the Judge pronounces David and Fox, HUSBAND AND WIFE, Demona runs from the Hall. Goliath pursues. Xanatos & Fox, exchange glances. "Now the fun really begins." They start to follow the gargoyles. Stefan tries to restrain his son: What are you up to now? You'd interrupt your own wedding to engage in Machiavellian scheming? But Xanatos is in a bit of a hurry. He and Fox head out the door pursued by Stefan. The Judge turns to Owen very confused. Owen says something dry and witty. And then both men follow the rest.
Outside, Goliath catches up with Demona before she can glide away. Does she remember their vows? Is there still a chance for them? He shows her his gate-piece. He's always kept it. She gently removes it from his hand and takes out hers. So has she. She puts the interlocking pieces together to form the PHOENIX GATE. And then... she laughs. Goliath is such a fool. He's fallen right into Xanatos and Demona's sentimental trap. Now she has the Gate. And she intends to use it. And just as the Xanatos clan approaches, she speaks the incantation. A huge bird of fire seems to engulf Goliath, Demona, David, Fox and Stefan Xanatos. The fire consumes itself. Owen and the Judge arrive just in time to see the last spark go out. There is no sign of the wedding party. Owen: "It seems the honeymoon has begun earlier than expected."
8. Wyvern, Scotland, on the cliffside near the forest overlooking Castle Wyvern. (This is where Hudson and Goliath froze the morning of the gargoyle massacre of 994 A.D. Only now, it's 975 A.D. -- the night of Prince Malcolm's wedding.) Our five time travelers materialize out of the flaming gate. Stefan asks "Where are we?" David: "The question isn't where... but when?"
9. Pick up right where we left off. Demona laughs and launches herself off the cliff. Goliath pursues, leaving the humans behind. Xanatos doesn't waste any time. "Follow me!" He runs back into the forest followed by Fox and a very confused Stefan.
10. Air chase. Demona manages to put some distance between herself and Goliath. She chants the incantation and vanishes into the flaming "Gate", leaving Goliath alone.
11. In the forest, Clan Xanatos comes upon TWO HOODED RIDERS who are being attacked by FOUR ARMED BANDITS on horseback. Although he is unarmed, Xanatos never hesitates, wading right in against the bandits. Xanatos, Fox, the larger of the two riders and even Stefan make short work of the bandits. The bandits are forced to flee without their horses, which Xanatos commandeers for his family. The large rider is grateful but suspicious of these strangers in bizarre garb. Then he notices Xanatos' Illuminati pin and warms up fast, briefly drawing back his cloak, to reveal that he wears the same Illuminati emblem. He tells Xanatos that he is the NORMAN AMBASSADOR. He and his "companion" bring "priceless gifts" to Prince Malcolm of Wyvern. Xanatos may wear strange garb, but he's a great fighter (and a fellow Illuminatus). The Ambassador would be honored if Xanatos' would accompany them the last few miles to Castle Wyvern. He also promises that Prince Malcolm will be very grateful for their help as well.
12. Having lost Demona, Goliath soars closer to the castle, debating with himself whether or not he should land there. Then he spots Demona again from a distance. He circles to intercept her, but as she lands on a castle battlement, she is greeted by a young Goliath. And the adult Goliath realizes that he wasn't tracking his enemy, but her younger counterpart. He comes in for a landing on one of the high towers of the castle, and surreptitiously watches the young lovers below him. It almost tears his heart out. And then he hears Hudson's voice behind him, demanding to know what he's doing up on the tower when he had been assigned to hold watch on the battlement. Adult Goliath turns to see his MENTOR, (the YOUNGER HUDSON). When Hudson gets a good look at him, he immediately sees that something is wrong. And when Hudson sees young Goliath and young Demona, below on the battlement, he's ready to cry sorcery, and Adult Goliath has to slap a hand over his mouth.
13. At the gates of the castle, Xanatos, Stefan, Fox, the Ambassador and the hooded rider are greeted by young Prince Malcolm and the ARCHMAGE. The rider is revealed to be PRINCESS ELENA of Normandy. (I made this name up, and have no idea if it's accurate to tenth century Normandy.) The Ambassador had hoped that by arriving in secret, he and the Princess would avoid just the kind of trouble that Clan Xanatos saved them from. Malcolm is very grateful. He was to marry Elena tomorrow, but because the princess was attacked, he has decided to move up the wedding to this very night. He tells his SERVANTS to prepare the Great Hall. At the Ambassador's prompting, Elena pulls out her father's wedding gift. It is a priceless golden treasure known as the PHOENIX GATE, which she will officially present to the Prince after the ceremony.
14. Meanwhile, with great difficulty, Goliath is trying to convince Hudson that he is not a sorcerous creature, but a visitor from the future. (He does not choose to reveal how far in the future.) Goliath is a bit flustered himself: he doesn't know how much to reveal, and he has to remind himself not to use anachronistic names like Hudson and Demona. He manages to babble out the fact that sometime in the future, he attended the wedding of an enemy and that he and his... enemies were sent back in time by some kind of sorcery. He is particularly concerned for the younger versions of himself and Demona. He needs his MENTOR's help. (This conversation will explain the older Hudson's ambivalence in Scene 2. He remembered meeting the adult Goliath after the latter had attended the wedding of an enemy.) Hudson isn't sure what to believe, but he looks deeply into adult Goliath's eyes and decides to trust him.
15. The Archmage returns to his laboratory. He is furious. At first we think he's ranting to himself, but then we realize he's talking to his apprentice, who cowers a bit in the shadows. It turns out that the Archmage hired the bandits to steal the Phoenix Gate from the Normans. To Malcolm, it is just a gaudy bauble, but to him it is the second talisman of power that he needs. (He has the Grimorum. Doesn't yet have the Eye of Odin.) With it he can transverse space and time in a thought. He needs his apprentice to steal it from the Princess before the wedding. Hesitantly, the apprentice steps forward out of the shadows. It is the young Demona.
16. Fox and Stefan watch as Xanatos hands the Ambassador a letter, and returns to face his father. He tells him that the letter contains instructions for the Illuminati society and two sealed envelopes. The Society is to wait 1000 years and then deliver the first envelope to a young David Xanatos of Bar Harbor, Maine. The envelope contains a small coin, a minor reward requested of the Prince for saving the Princess. The coin is practically worthless in 975, but by 1975 it will be worth about 20 grand. The second envelope is to be delivered twenty years after the first. It contains a detailed account of how the coin was obtained. That's how Xanatos knew how to set all this up. He had received instructions from himself last week. "So you see, Pop. I am indeed a self-made man." Fox beams with pride. Stefan is quiet for a beat. Then asks: "All right, Mr. Big Shot Time Traveler. You sent yourself your little letter before you answered one important question: How do we get home?"
17. Young Demona sneaks into the Princess' room through a window and grabs the Phoenix Gate, while Elena's back is turned. She leaves by the same window, but she doesn't get very far. Suddenly, her older counterpart appears before her in a fiery flash of Phoenix flame.
18. Up on the tower, the burst of Phoenix flame attracts the attention of Goliath, Hudson -- and Young Goliath down on the battlement! Adult Goliath knows the flame signals the arrival of his... enemy. But his younger counterpart MUST NOT investigate. Hudson agrees to waylay young Goliath. Adult Goliath takes off in the direction of the fading flame.
19. Meanwhile, the older Demona confronts her younger self. Both hold a complete version of the Phoenix Gate. (Don't you just love time travel stories?) Anyway, the younger Demona is obviously stunned by what she sees. The older one is right to business. She knows for a fact that her arrival is about to attract some unwanted attention. They need to go somewhere private to talk! She invokes the Latin spell and her gate opens into fire that sucks in both Demonas. At the last possible second, Adult Goliath flies into the fiery gate, and all three vanish.
20. Castle Wyvern. The highest tower. 994 A.D. A few nights after the Massacre. The 994 counterpart of Goliath is frozen in stone (in Thinker pose) at night! Small fires still burn. Fragments of other gargoyles litter the ground. On the cut, the Phoenix Gate deposits Young Demona, Adult Demona and Adult Goliath a few yards above the tower. The Demona's drop down gently enough, but Goliath's momentum from scene 19 sends him crashing into the stone floor of the tower. Adult Demona seems ready for this as well. Before Goliath can recover, she slams him across the back with all her might, plus both fists and the anger of 1000 years. He is knocked unconscious.
And then her real work begins. Young Demona is still in a state of semi-shock. Adult Demona wastes no time. Yes, she is her older self returned from the future with a warning. See the destruction. The death. Goliath frozen in stone at night! Humans did this! And you can stop it! You have the Phoenix Gate. All you have to do is think of a place and time. Hold it in your mind, and by speaking the incantation you are there. With its power you can accomplish anything. Do not give it away to the Archmage. Do not share it with... Do not share it! USE IT!! Destroy all the humans! Rule the Gargoyles! Rule the world!! It's all within your grasp!!!
Goliath starts to come to. Young Demona rushes to his side. Adult Demona intercepts her. "Believe me, I know exactly how you feel." But you cannot trust Goliath. He is weak. He cares more about the humans than the gargoyle clan! The greatest favor you can do him would be to put him out of our misery. (And here is where our Demona has made her big mistake. A mistake made despite the power of hindsight. Because Demona never learns. And because at this time, the younger Demona loves Goliath with all her heart.) Adult Demona: "You must know I'm right! Can't you see I am what you will become?!" And young Demona, still largely innocent and good, snaps: "I will never become like you!" Young Demona attacks adult Demona! Fight scene. Frankly, Young Demona wouldn't be a match for adult Demona, except that the latter is a bit reluctant to trash "herself". Still, it's for her own good.
Goliath regains consciousness and joins the battle. The tide turns and Adult Demona is knocked out this time. Goliath takes her version of the Phoenix Gate from her. Young Demona is pretty near shattered by this whole experience! She turns to Goliath, pleadingly. What should she do?
Goliath is reluctant to use Adult Demona's methods. But he also wants to undo some of the damage the Adult Demona did. Young Demona is touching the frozen version of Goliath. Our Goliath approaches her. Tells her not to worry about this. Not to fear it or look for it. It is not the big catastrophes that must concern her. It is the little slights. The little jealousies and angers that prey upon the heart. Fortify yourself with love and trust, and you need not fear this future.
Goliath looks at Adult Demona. He holds up her Gate. He's not sure he knows how to use it. The younger one lifts her version. She knows how. She speaks the words and the three of them disappear in flames.
21. They reappear in flame on the same tower in 975. Xanatos, Fox and Stefan are there. (The highest point on the castle was the logical place to watch for the Phoenix flames.) Goliath would be tempted to leave Xanatos behind if he wasn't afraid of the damage the guy could do to the future. Goliath says good-bye to young Demona. By now, he's figured out how the gate works. Young Demona steps back out of range. With some hesitancy, Goliath speaks the Latin and our five time travelers disappear.
Young Demona is left alone. She still has her version of the Phoenix Gate, which she holds tightly behind her back. The Archmage comes running up the stairs, clutching the Grimorum. He had seen the Phoenix fire and jumps to the conclusion that young Demona let somebody else get away with the Gate. Before she can reveal that she still has her Gate, he punishes her with a bolt of lightning, and threatens to tell the Prince that she stole the Gate. Hudson glides in, landing between Demona and the Archmage. Hudson wonders why the Archmage would expect Demona to have the Prince's wedding present? If Demona did steal it, who would she be stealing it for? The Archmage takes the hint, begrudgingly. But he won't forget this. He heads back downstairs, grumbling: Those strangely dressed strangers have disappeared. The theft of the Gate can be blamed on them. Obviously, Young Demona never reveals that she still has the Gate.
Young Goliath glides in and in a repeat of the first half of scene 5, Demona seems ridiculously happy to see him. Goliath doesn't want to miss Prince Malcolm's Wedding. Demona seems a bit distracted. She looks at Hudson, who says "Go on, then." She and Goliath glide down to one of the upper windows of the Great Hall.
22. Xanatos' Castle in Manhattan, 1995. A repeat of the end of scene 7: Owen and the Judge arrive on the scene just in time to see the last spark go out. There is no sign of the wedding party. Owen: "It seems the honeymoon has begun earlier than expected."
Our five time travelers reappear. Demona is recovering. Goliath may have defeated her, but he failed too. Demona remembers his little speech from when she was young. She never forgot it. And it didn't change anything. "More's the pity," he says. And he glides off with the Gate.
In excellent spirits, Xanatos approaches his father. "Did you have a good time at the wedding?" Xanatos Senior takes a penny from his pocket and flips it to Xanatos Junior. David catches it and asks, what's this? Stefan says, "It's called a penny. It's not worth much now, but in a 1000 years, who knows. It's my wedding present to you. Because it's all you seem to care about." Stefan turns his back on his son, and walks away.
23. Goliath arrives back at the Clock Tower. Elisa and Brooklyn are there, ready to blast him for going to the wedding. But Hudson takes one look at Goliath and stops them. Goliath puts the Phoenix Gate back in its hiding place with the Grimorum and the Eye. When he turns to face us, there's a single tear rolling down his cheek. Push in on him and ripple dissolve...
24. Castle Wyvern, 975 A.D., night. M.O.S., Young Demona separates the two pieces of the Phoenix Gate and hands one to Young Goliath. They embrace, stroking each other's hair. FADE OUT.
Last week, I posted my ramble on EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. But I forgot to post the memo from that episode. Here it is.
This is from October of '94, though the episode wouldn't air until September of '95.
Steve Perry wrote a first draft script (which I know longer have), edited by Michael Reaves. This was my memo to Michael in response to that first draft. Usually, these memos come at the outline stage. I'm not sure why this waited until the script stage. Making changes at this stage creates pressure. And I think that pressure is reflected in my brusker tone. (A tone which I regret in rereading it now.)
Notes on "EYE OF THE BEHOLDER" Script...
This will be a fairly extensive rewrite. Mostly necessitated by Xanatos coming across as weak and moonstruck for the entire episode. We've got to do some restructuring to solve that problem. Sorry.
We cannot weaken Xanatos to the degree we do here. He should appear to be his normal machiavellian self through the whole episode. Going through life, despite minor setbacks, with an ever-present ace up his sleeve. With only two exceptions... at the crisis point, when he finally has to admit to Goliath and himself that he cares about Fox, and at the end when he feels Goliath has the goods on him. Both of these are important but brief moments. At the very end, we need to feel like Xanatos is more well-rounded, but still formidable.
In the first scene, please mention Fox's facial tattoo in description. No matter how fancy she dresses, it's a reminder that she still has the beast within. Like Xanatos, let's not play her sappy or moony. She's cut from the same cloth as he is. She may truly love him. But she's not gonna easily be carried away by those feelings. Do we want to give Fox a real name? I feel like she would have had hers legally changed. Maybe not. But how about Janine instead of Janet? Sounds slightly more exotic. Do we want the Werefox to be proportioned like a bodybuilder? She'll have super-strength of course, but shouldn't her proportions remain similar to Fox's design?
You'll see below, that I've added a bit for Travis Marshall. If you can figure a way to get the exposition smoothly across without Travis, you can skip him. In either case, during Elisa's first battle against the Werefox in the grocery store, let's reuse the store and store keeper from -013. Charlie H. did that voice and you'll probably need him for Travis. (This doesn't mean the store keeper has to speak, it just gives us a convenient option and saves our artists some work.)
IT'S A CHOKER NOT A PENDANT
I know we discussed that.
TODAY'S THEME: VULNERABILITY
It's there, but I think we could be hitting it harder. (It's not that I advocate a lack of subtlety, but in our scripts we need to emphasize the theme to maintain the audience's focus. We always have so much going on that it would be easy for them to feel like it's just a lot of fighting and not about anything.)
NO 40 PAGE SCRIPTS
I don't want to see any script that is longer than 39 pages. Even at the first draft stage. Please make sure that this is to length. This shouldn't be tough. The script seemed heavily padded to me. There are entire scenes that can come out.
Please make sure that this is complete. Elisa was left off. I've cut Dr. Stein. Also don't forget to include characters with no lines. They are still needed for design purposes. And describe the costumes of Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, Lexington and the costumed man. You don't have to go into great detail. Just make sure that it's noted that they appear in normal garb and in these other costumes.
1. SUPER: OCTOBER 1st. Our prologue. Xanatos proposes, in a decidedly business-like manner. We don't get to see the Eye. (This scene is largely successful in Steve's draft.)
2. SUPER: OCTOBER 31st. On the streets, late afternoon. Halloween prep going on. Wind, leaves. And Elisa walking with her (unrevealed) costume by the store as the bookrack flies through the store window. She goes in, coming into conflict with this monster WEREFOX. We should see the Werefox eating. Establish that basic motivation. We should also see the EYE. Werefox escapes.
3. Time cut to aftermath. Brief moment between Elisa and Morgan, as Travis Marshall reports live. This is not the Werefox's first sighting.
4. Back at the castle, Xanatos and Owen click off the television (and the Travis Marshall report) as Fox enters. She's got an overcoat pulled tight around her neck. Xanatos asks her if she is wearing her engagement present. She says nervously, that she never takes it off. She exits. He and Owen look at each other. They clearly suspect something.
5. At clock tower, gargoyles EXPLODE awake. Elisa's there. Tells what happened. Brooklyn figures that blows his theory that the Monster sightings were all pre-Halloween shenanigans. (Let's get in here that they are excited about Halloween and being able to appear in public. Hudson's less sanguine.) Goliath takes Elisa aside: "I should have been with you." But Elisa won't let him feel guilty. He can't be with her all the time anymore than she can spend every hour of daylight guarding him. They're all vulnerable. It's scary, but knowing someone cares whether they make it through the day makes it worthwhile. (Or something like that.)
6. Back at the castle, Xanatos calmly approaches Fox and asks for her engagement present. He wants to have it engraved. She tries to demure. He insists, gently pulling her collar away from the EYE!!! She slams him back and transforms into the werefox!
7. Xan was more-or-less ready for this, he has a tranquilizer gun, but she's much more powerful than he anticipated. The dart doesn't seem to slow her down. Owen enters prepared, with what appears to be another tranquilizer gun. But it's really a tagging device of some sort. The Werefox escapes. (This is tricky, given the setting.) Xanatos: "So much for doing things the easy way." Owen's tagger tracks the beast and sends back vital signs. Owen explains that her metabolic rate is skyrocketing, explaining why the tranquilizer had no effect, and also revealing that she's gonna burn out and die. Xanatos seems unconcerned. (This is a facade, but even he doesn't realize it yet.) He needs to get the Eye of Odin back. If he had known it was anything more than a fancy jewel he'd never have given it away. "Oh, well. On to plan B."
8. Elisa finds Goliath in the library. She's gotten an anonymous tip about where to find the Werefox. (She doesn't know it, but it's from Xanatos.)
9. Xanatos in his battle armor, tracks and confronts the Werefox on the rooftop. (Of a bakery? Or a meat packing warehouse? In any case, reestablish her metabolic hunger.) He tries to get in close enough to remove the Eye. Goliath and Elisa arrive and, thanks to a little play-acting by Xanatos, become convinced that the Werefox is another of Xanatos' victims (ala Maggie Reed). They try to intervene, but obviously the werefox isn't too helpful. Xanatos takes this opportunity to make his grab for the Eye. He's blasted by magical energy. And the Werefox trashes his armor. He's forced to flee. Goliath tries to talk to Werefox, but she slams him into Elisa, nearly knocking the latter off the rooftop. Goliath and Elisa recover, by which time, Werefox is gone. They confer. Elisa is convinced that Xanatos has victimized this poor creature just as he did her brother. He's clearly after the eye. They have to gather all the gargoyles and make sure they get it first. Goliath looks suspiciously toward the Castle in the distance. Maybe he can barely see Xanatos limping toward it.
10. Xanatos comes in for an unsteady landing at the castle. He's greeted by Owen: "So much for plan B." And Xanatos: "True. But now plan C is activated. Goliath and company are, as usual, determined to thwart me. They'll pull out all the stops to get the eye off Fox before I do. They'll do all my work for me." Owen is confused. How will this help him recover the eye? (This is a hint that the eye isn't really Xanatos' main concern.) But before Xanatos can address that question (or even give conscious thought to the answer), Goliath and Elisa dramatically reveal their presence. It's clear they've heard everything. (Or almost everything.)
11. Goliath is major angry. (But kind of proud of himself that he didn't get fooled again.) Xanatos can do his own dirty work. Goliath and Elisa start to go. And suddenly, almost against his own will, Xanatos stops him. Reveals to himself, Goliath and audience that he really cares for Fox. He needs help to get the eye off of her. The legend says that this is what the Norse God Odin traded for POWER AND INSIGHT. He had no idea the legend had any basis in fact or that the eye had any real metamorphic abilities. Goliath comments wryly that it should give Xanatos some "insight" as to Fox's true bestial nature. It's made her more like herself. (Xanatos does not find that unattractive.) Why should Goliath help? Xanatos makes the Demona reference. (At some point in here, Xanatos should make physical contact with Goliath. Touching his arm. Needing his help.) Goliath starts to waiver, but Elisa's convinced that this is just another scam. A plan D, if you like. Goliath nods agreement. In any case, it's Xanatos' mess. He can fix it himself. They leave. Xanatos seems momentarily desperate, but then controls himself. Asks how long it will take for armor repair. Owen says a couple of days and then takes a quick look at his tracker/scanner. Fox doesn't have that long.
12. Greenwich village. The party. Let's take some time to play this. The trio and their costumes. And particularly, play the beauty of Goliath and Princess Elisa. Maybe a band is playing something classical on Bleeker Street and they dance. Suddenly Goliath spots the werefox. He grabs the creature. Only to discover it's a guy in a costume. But it starts him thinking. He's going to help Xanatos. Elisa protests (not too strongly; she's not immune either). But Goliath has good reasons. The Werefox is dangerous to his "castle". But truly, if a man like Xanatos can love...well, there's hope for the whole world. From behind Xanatos agrees. How did he find them? Almost embarrassed, Xanatos pulls a Scarab transmitter off Goliath's arm. Old habits die hard. He pulls out the scanner. Come with me.
13. Elsewhere in the village, there's a lot of free food being given out at booths. (I know this would never happen in real life, but let's just assume that local restaurants are looking at it as an advertisement expense.) All the trio, not just Broadway, are partaking. But the Werefox is hungry too. Her attack is closely followed by Goliath, Elisa and Xanatos' arrival. Ultimately, Goliath gets her in a full-nelson that allows Xanatos to reach in with his gauntlet-covered hand and painfully remove the Eye. Fox transforms back, in Goliath's arms. Goliath demands the Eye; he won't trust Xanatos with it. (Xanatos will assume he's being asked to trade the eye for Fox. This is not Goliath's intent, but leave it ambiguous.) For once, Xanatos can't refuse. The exchange is made. Xanatos, cradling Fox in his arms: "Well, Goliath, now you know my one weakness." Goliath regards him with disdain: "Only you would regard love as a weakness." He, Elisa and the Trio depart with the Eye. As all this is happening, Owen has pulled up in the limo. He caught the tail end of the conversation. He agrees with Goliath: "Frankly, Mr. Xanatos, you've never looked quite so formidable." Xanatos smiles. Fox awakens. He says something tender, but it's clear he's back to his old self, just as dangerous as ever.
You've said that Xanatos basically stopped trying to make his own gargoyles after Thailog because Thailog scared him. For what reasons is Xanatos scared by Thailog?
As Owen pointed out, Thailog was stronger and smarter than Xanatos. His creation, no longer under HIS control.
Scares me, anyway.
Greg, I have a minor interest in geneology. Could you please clarify for me what nationalities the following characters are:
1) Elisa, half African-American, half Native American.
2) Xanatos, Greek
3) Matt, I don't know
4) Fox--- well, her dad's probably French and her mom's a fairy...
5) Maria Chavez, Spanish
Could you help me here?
2. Greek-American, yes.
4. Her dad's French-American, yes.
5. Maria's Hispanic-American.
Written by Steve Perry. Story Edited by Michael Reaves.
It's really just a coincidence that we watched this so close to Halloween (11-2-00). I wasn't trying for that. This was just the next episode in the sequence. Still, when I mentioned before we started that this was the Halloween episode of Gargoyles, the kids got very excited. Erin pointed at the framed cell we have in our bedroom which depicts Goliath and La Belle Elisa dancing. She remembered that it came from the episode we were about to watch. Benny then commented that Elisa and Goliath are going to get married. Erin, who has a clearer memory of the last time we completed the 66 episode sequence corrected him. But I said something cryptic, like you never know. Erin said I needed to make more episodes so that we could find out. From her mouth to God's ears.
In general, the kids were very verbal during this episode, or at least Erin was. Benny started out verbal, but fell asleep with his mom rubbing his tummy somewhere during Act One.
In the opener, a classic scene I think, when he first saw Xanatos and Fox together he said: "That was you, Erin. I was him." in reference to the Fox and Xanatos costumes they wore to the Gathering 2000's masquerade.
Erin really bought into the tension of the episode. And it is very tense. Some terrific pacing to this. She remembered this one with much greater clarity than most. "Uh oh. That's not just any necklace." Etc. Personally, I just love Xanatos' pragmatic proposal. The truth is X should have already known that he was truly in love with Fox. I've just done some research into sentencing while working on and reworking my Gargoyle timeline. Fox & Wolf each received a 16 month sentence for briefly holding that model hostage in "Thrill of the Hunt". They had the opportunity to be parolled after eight months. They were rejected. Instead of waiting a mere eight more months for them to be released free and clear, an impatient Xanatos sets up the events in "Leader of the Pack". Is that a man in love or what? Nevertheless, we get his whole "We're genetically compatible and have the same goals" speech. She asks about love, and he feels himself largely incapable of the emotion. He thinks he's too amoral for that. "I think we love each other as much as two people like us can." (Or something like that. I'm approximating all these quotations.) It's fun.
Then comes the sequence in Mr. Jaffe's store. Erin is still very tense: "Uh oh, that's Fox. She's wearing the necklace." and "She wants to stop it [the necklace] with one arm. But she doesn't want to with the other." Here, Erin's hit right on Fox's internal conflict. Part of her is fighting the Eye, but part of her wants to surrender to its power. When X first confronts her in her bedroom, and when the Werefox emerges and attacks, it doesn't shred him. It throws him down on the bed. There's some powerful primal energy swirling 'round that room. Lucky thing Owen is there, or I'm not sure Xanatos escapes with his dignity intact.
Xanatos takes note and activates Plan A, which will be followed by B and C. And a makeshift D. It becomes almost a parody of all his contingencies and "Xanatos Tags" from previous episodes. For once, he's out of control. And he can't bear to admit it. He pretends (even to himself) that he just needs to recover the valuable Eye of Odin, when what he obviously really wants is to save Fox. "...I'd never have just given it away. Ah, well, spilled milk." (I always thought that was a great and yet feeble cover for his real feelings.)
Speaking of the Eye, how many knew back when it was intro'd in "The Edge" that it would be so important? As I think I've mentioned, the Eye was actually the creation of Disney Interactive which was working on a GARGOYLES VIDEO GAME at the time. They told us about the Eye, and I loved the idea and decided to incorporate it into the show. Unfortunately, we didn't use their design, which had this great crow/raven theme to it, appropriate to Odin. Instead, our design always looked vaguely Egyptian to me. I can't remember, but I think that maybe they're design wasn't ready when we needed to complete our model for "The Edge". Or it might have been poor communication. The Eye was designed at Walt Disney Animation - Japan. At any rate, we knew from the gamer folk that the Eye had metamorphic powers. But I wanted to be more specific. Yes, it would grant power, but it had to grant power that suited the legend of Odin's Eye. The Eye traditionally provided Mimir with the gift of sight. That easily translated to "insight" for me. Which is a kind of power in its own right. The Eye in the Gargoyles Universe would externalize and amplify a major trait of the wearer. And, yes, even then I had plans to eventually intro Odin himself and have him stick the thing back in his empty socket.
I think that shot from inside the elevator shaft when Fox smashes her way in is very cool.
Owen with an Elvis tribute: "Fox has left the building."
--The Eye of Odin, of course.
--Mr. Jaffe's poor grocery store.
--X's commando squad (including Bruno) is at the ready, yet still unprepared for the Werefox's fury.
--Since "The Mirror", Goliath is more open about his growing feelings for Elisa. She again defuses things by turning his concerns for her into a more objective statement about friendship.
--Goliath is back in the library. This time studying Werewolves. The information won't be useful, but isn't that just like him?
--Elisa immediately jumping to the conclusion that the were-thing is another of Xanatos' mutated victims like her brother.
HALLOWEEN - The trio are very excited to be able to stroll into the open. "No one'll know who we are." Better yet, "No one will know WHAT we are." The taste of conformity they got in "The Mirror" has opened a window on their need to be a part of something larger than the clan.
Another cool visual: Fox and Goliath circling each other, with Fox on all fours.
I love when Goliath tries to reason with Fox. "If Xanatos is your enemy, then believe me, WE are your friends." How little he knows. The Werefox immediately attacks him. Still conflicted. Throughout the story, Fox fights, but the Eye reasserts.
Time for Plan C. But Owen has noticed the flaw in Xanatos' usually stellar power of contingency. X claims that all he cares about is the Eye. But he's only setting things up so that the gargs will get the eye. Subconsciously, all he wants is Fox. But we have Goliath arrive and interrupt just at that moment so that neither X or the audience has time to focus on the contradicition.
X breaks down. Appeals to Goliath. He's out of control. Up to a point. ("Old habits die hard -- he still has the forsight to plant a bug on Goliath ala "Awakening, Part Three".
Gotta love Goliath's line: "Not a good night for you." It's great as a writer when you can legitimately turn the tables and give Goliath a Xanatos line.
Broadway REALLY wanted to dress up as a Detective. So he's got a new trenchcoat and hat. Brooklyn, ever the swashbuckler, is a pirate. And Lex... hmm... what should we make Lex. We settled on a pilot, in keeping with his helicopter prowess, I guess. But it was never too clear what Lex would or should be, and I can't help thinking that Lex had trouble deciding on a costume too.
Of course, Goliath doesn't wear a costume.
Vinnie has a line here. Though officially, it's not Vinnie's first appearance, this one line of Jeff Bennett spoken dialogue "A costume over a costume." is the obvious inspiration for all that followed with the Vinster.
And I love Keith as that witch saying "That is a great, great costume." What a great, great line reading.
BEAUTY & THE BEAST. Finally, we get to hit the nail on the head. A moment so romantic (in a very romantic episode) that even the characters take note. Elisa lets her self go for a moment. Goliath just is. The kids are happy for them.
But "Things are not always as they seem". Goliath breaks the moment by attacking a guy in a werewolf costume.
Note: That Goliath now refers to Manhattan as "My castle, my city." A year earlier (more or less) he was calling it Xanatos' city. I love the notion that Goliath sees hope in Xanatos LOVING someone. And of course, he's right. Xanatos' love for Fox (and later Alex) will result in Goliath getting the castle back. Not war, but love.
Brooklyn and Lex finally get to eat pretzyls. Remember that in Awakening, Broadway ate them all. Meanwhile Broadway eat's a hot dog and BELCHES MIGHTILY. This was really more about all of us indulging ourselves in low humor. We put the burp into the script. Bill Fagerbakke burped loudly. But our sound effects guy Paca Thomas, put in the burp to end all burps.
--Lex gets very intense (briefly) and wants to go after FOX. He still hates anything or anyone connected to his Pack experience.
--The return of Brendan & Margot.
Gotta love Elisa's costume. Holster for a garter belt. Very sexy. Solved our nudity problem with Fox too. I'm amazed we got away with that.
In a larger sense, I'm amazed we got away with the entire episode. I was very nervous that the notion of X and Fox getting engaged would be rejected. But the BIG BOSSES didn't focus on the fact that the engagement might lead to marriage. And fortunately, they weren't paying attention when that engagement led to marriage, pregnancy and a kid. I don't think they would have allowed it.
I could have done without Broadway eating his hat.
Fox's internal conflict is visualized when she sees Elisa as herself and attacks to silence that human voice inside her once and for all.
When, in slow motion, Goliath intercepts Fox and saves Elisa (who's usually fairly self-sufficient) it may be the purest moment of Hero saving damsel we have in the series. The dress helps of course.
A little HIGHLANDER inspiration here with Fox and the exploding sign.
I love that Owen's right there with the helicopter.
X is still trying to interpret things to suit his old (and dated) world view. He thinks Goliath is trading the Eye for Fox, which of course he wasn't. Goliath doesn't think that way.
"Now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love a weakness."
"You've never looked more heroic."
"A momentary lapse, I assure you."
All great lines.
Let's go home.
And Owen, who signed on BECAUSE Fox and Xanatos were so interesting to the Puck, SMILES.
And now a word about the episode from Erin Sydney Weisman (she typed this herself):
I am most interested in this episode. And the episode I watched was a spooky episode. And I liked the episode, because it was a very enchanting episode.
I've always thought Xanatos a fascinating character and possibly my favorite villain in the Gargoyles Universe, if not my fave character overall. Is he as fun to write as he is to watch?
How did Renard and Vogel find out about Oberon and Titania's plan to kidnap Alexander?
Would Xanatos feel the need to upgrade his Steel Clan further now that he's developed Coyote and has the real deal back at Castle Wyvern?
Xanatos or Bill Gates?
I don't know. But I know who's more fun to hang with.
I am curious... I know Xanatos *programmed* Thailog. But is that just a way of saying that he thaugh him everything or does it really mean that Thailog can be *programmed* with a computer or something.
I just don't understand the concept.
Specific information was forcefed to Thailog while he was still in his maturation chamber. The choice of info and the spin put on that info, was Xanatos'.
In Outfoxed, Halcyon says that if Fortress II were to crash, cyberbiotics would be history. As we know, fortress II crashed in Gathering part 2, So, my question is, how bad were the damages sustained by Fortress II and was Halcyon able to get his company back on its feet (so to speak) afterward?
The damage was extensive. By that time, Halcyon had had time to diversify a bit. But I'd say Cyberbiotics stock dropped considerably.
1.If we look at "Gathering 2", we only see Renard and Vogel in Fortress II. Did the ship carried only Cybots or there were people as well?
2.We know that Renard did have some "things to reconsider" in "Outfoxed". Did he had the Cybots replace by people?
3.If he did not made the replacemnt, will he plan to in the future?
1. None other on that outing.
2. He replaced many cybots with people. But he didn't bring them along for that hazardous mission.
3. Renard's not making any long-term plans right now.
If Xanatos did know what Iago was like, was he
A. Being kinda irresponsible to give a psycho like that access to a state of the art killing machine without building in some kind of failsafe.
B. Hoping to use Coldsteel for his own ends later, *finally* getting a gargoyle who'd work for him. After all, Iago's Dark Ages alliance with the Archmage makes this a bit of a possibility.
Xanatos was never one not to throw caution to the wind. But keep in mind he always has a back-up plan and he did build the robot.
1.What did titania whisper into fox's ear at he end of the gathering part2
2.who rules after oberon
3. is fox the next queen of avalon
4. does titania know who the ruler of avalon will be after oberon's demise.
5. when does titania die.
6. how does titania die
7. does alexander, xanatos's child, ever become ruler of avalon.
8.odin is king of the gods in norse myth, and oberon is king in hte scottish/irish myth...so why does oberon ruler over odin?
9.how did oberon dfeat mab
10. why did oberon battle mab
11. who is merlin's mother, i know she is human, but who she
12. did merlin's mom know she had a son to oberon, or didn't oberon tell her
13. does foxes, dad...i say foxes dad because i dont know how to spell his name, well does he know that foxes mom is titania?
14. when oberon made everyone sleep in gathering part 1 and 2, why is foxes dad and vogel not asleep? was this titania's doing
1. Do you think they'll be wondering about this in Ask Greg four years from now?
2. Who says there is an after?
3. Who says there is a next?
4. Who says there's a demise?
5. Who says she does?
6. See 5.
8. You're premise is incorrect. Oberon is not king of the gods in Scotish/Irish myth. He's king of the fair folk. There's a difference.
9. That's an epic story.
10. That's part of the above mentioned epic story.
11. A welsh noblewoman.
13. Yes. Which doesn't mean he's dealt with it.
14. No. Renard and Vogel put an energy field around the bridge of Fortress-II similar to the field that surrounded the Eyrie.
You know it occurs to me that these questions covered multiple unrelated topics. That's a no-no. Next time I'll get tough on you.
At the end of "Double Jeopardy", Xanatos comments about Goliath and Thailog, "I should have known that no copy could ever live up to the original." What I found interesting about that remark is that Thailog was the last attempt that Xanatos made to create "his own gargoyles". After that, he made no new efforts to come up with "gargoyle-substitutes" - he used the already-made Steel Clan robots in a few cases, and he also welcomed the Mutates' services when they came back to work for him in "The Cage", but he did not come up with brand-new schemes of that sort. Did this remark of Xanatos's above indeed indicate the end of that particular strategy on his part?
Yep. Also, I think for once he was chastened. Thailog scared him a bit.
this is about the 8 authurian survivors
1. merlin is trapped. for how long?
2. how does merlin get out.
3. who put him there
4. who is the green knight exactly
5. how was the pheonix gate envolved with the 8 authurian survivors
6. what was the price duval had to pay for his current status
7. in the journey episode, duval was on the phone and kept on hold....what did duval want?
1. 'Til Arthur frees him.
2. Arthur frees him.
4. Who are you exactly?
5. Who said it was?
6. I'm not telling.
7. To talk to Xanatos.
Did any specific event in Xanatos' life set about his thirst and overwhelming desire for immortality?
The death of his mother couldn't have helped.
1) How old is Xanatos?
Uh, I have this info at the office (for the first two at least). But I'm at home now. So ask me again later.
I love this asking questions off of answers to my own questions! By the time you read this it will have been a while since you answered what I apologized being "an amorphous blob of a question" on Fox, her potential fae abilities and concrete lack thereof, as well as Titania's intentions. I now apologize for this being only a little less of a blob; I separated paragraphs- (randomly, but I did it).
I did not truly express myself well so you could not fully answer that question- (you did cover most of it). The main thing that has been bothering me, and which prompted me to assess the situation as I had, was that thought that Titania would intentionally put herself through the pain of having a child that will live, grow old and die in a fraction of her own lifespan. I realize that even Titania cannot foresee and account every happening, but I figure that she can handle birth control if she wanted to. [Given the cross species thing, I assumed she had to work at the non-compatibility problem. Different species should be nearly automatic birth control for the most part.] Basically, I assume she intended to have Fox- or at least a halfling child. [A correct assumption?]
You answered me on July 19 saying there was no exterior block on Fox practicing fae magic- only the atrophying of unused talents. The implication of The Gathering seemed to be that that bolt at Oberon was Fox's first act of magic. The thing I am curious about is whether or not Titania tried to make Fox a magical being as a child, or even as a baby, or, at any rate before issues of atrophy could come up. I assumed she would have tried, if for no other reason than giving Fox access to a lifespan of a short lived Oberati instead of a long lived human. [I really can't understand people willingly putting themselves through the pain of losing a child when there is any viable alternative.] Continuing with what were probably faulty assumptions I deduced that Titania must have tried in a direct fashion to get Fox used to magic until Fox was old enough to talk about it credibly (4 or 5?). After that point, through the events of the Gathering, I assumed she tried less direct methods- perhaps even things that would be dangerous for a child had her mother not been there to step in to save her. Fox of course would have generally found her own way out of dangerous situations using her mind and body and circumventing the whole experiment. This all seemed a rather logical set of deductions except for figuring out why a child version of Fox could not do magic. From there I hypothesized some sort of exterior block, which you said does not exist.
Did Titania conceive Fox intentionally?
Did Titania desire to have a child that was human or halfling in point of view and ability?
[Oddly enough it seems to me Fox has a rather Fae POV despite her lack of magic]
Did Titania try to train Fox in fae magic as a small child?
If so, why didn't I work at the time?
Did Titania try indirect methods throughout the rest of Fox's life?
Now that Fox has touched on her fae potential- should she desire and be able to reclaim that 'muscle' and strengthen it, in effect become more a halfling than a human, could her life expectancy jump from what I would guess to be low hundreds to several hundred?
You wrote in your answer:
"Titania/Anastasia may have made some mistakes, may not have thought things out in advance. May have had one or more changes of heart."
I am beginning to getting a bit of a picture of Titania like the cat I once saw described in a birthday card- the sort of animal that can perch on your Tv, fall off with an ungraceful plop and then jump up with an "I meant to do that" look and walk proudly and disdainfully away. Perhaps all that wonderful manipulation I give her credit for is actually (in part) post facto saving face on an incredibly skill level.
I definitely think she wanted Fox. I think she loved Halcyon. And they wanted to have a child together. I think having that child was a huge part of her maturation process. (This is also all tied in with the two children she's had with Oberon. A not so happy story for another day.) The issue of Fox being a halfling was automatic. She couldn't have a child with Halcyon and NOT have it be a halfling. (You can't leave love out of the equation.)
At first, I don't think Titania DID try to train Fox in magic. Because, and this is key, she was working very hard to live as ANASTASIA. (Think Bewitched, I guess.) Again, there was love for her rational, scientist, industrialist man in there. But also it was a period of emotional growth for her. So she didn't want to mess with Fox's head. And she didn't realize it would cause problems later.
Later, yes, she tried many indirect methods. Including Matrix. No dice. So maybe, she had to try something a touch more desperate.
As to your last question, only time will tell.
I was wondering about little Alex. Do you think Fox and Xanatos will put him in public or private school? Or would they maybe home school him? None of the above?
All of the above.
Oh, one little bit about my question regarding Xanatos in "The New Olympians". I, of course, knew that "Xavier" was merely a "rejected first-draft" name for our favorite scheming billionaire and did not actually exist in the Gargoyles Universe. Rather, I mentioned it because somebody who'd been to your "New Olympians" speech at one of the Gatherings had told me that there would have been a Xanatos-style character named Xavier in it; I may have misunderstood him.
You did. Or he misunderstood me. XANATOS himself is in the New Olympian pitch. We came up for the idea for New Olympians before Gargoyles. But we brought it back out DURING gargoyles and revised the pitch to include Xanatos.
Me again! (heh, and what month is this now, Greg?)
Okay, In Hunter's Moon, when Owen offers the help of his boss to Elisa during that scene in the warehouse and she rebukes him...
When she says "I've had enough help from him to last a lifetime" (paraphrased, ofcourse) what is she referring to?
Her brother's mutation or just the craziness that she's been snared into since the Gargoyles woke up? That line somehow sounds to me like the two (Xanatos and Maza) have a past history pre-Gargoyles. So, do they?
August. (Which isn't too bad.) Are you the same Mara I met at the con? The one with the orangest hair?
Mostly Derek, but all of the crap he's put her and her friends through.
No past history to speak of.
Hi Greg! First off, let me get the butt-kissing out of the way. Thank you and all involved for one of the greatest animated shows... ever. I have many wonderful memories of heated fights for the television with my late Grandma between watching reruns of Gargoyles and.... Judge Judy.
Judge Judy never stood a chance. :)
Now! *figuratively rubs hands together* I got a Xanatos questions/comments for you today!
Admittedly, I'm one of those twisted souls who prefers a charismatic villian to the good guys any day of the week, so Mr. X is ofcourse my fave next to Demona.(but this post isn't about Her, so...)It's very hard NOT to like a guy as smooth and manipulative as all that. (It's nearly impossible to tell when he drops the act. As Sevarius knows...) Demo...
1. Why did David propose to Fox so... quickly in their relationship? In other words, was it part of a future strategy? It's far too early for him to know about his self addressed letter in VOWS.
Hmm.. I know I had more to ask but I think I forgot em... Eh, something to bug you with next time, ne?
First off, it wasn't that quick. They'd been dating since before the gargs were awakened. Second of all, there's no real mystery as to why he proposed, he gave his reasons when he did. They were genetically compatible, made each other hot, and had the same goals. Including procreation. It was a business decision. Or so he thought.
Does Fox love her mother Titani?
She loves Anastasia. Titania will take some getting used to.
At www.xanatos.com, there is an actual company called Xanatos Enterprises. Is this the source of the name, or visa-versa? That is, did they name the company after the character from Gargoyles? Or were you unaware of this company's existance?
I can't say for certain, though I have an inkling, whether the show gave them the name. But I do know, because Disney's Legal Department did a search, that there was no Xanatos Enterprises in existence when the show first went on the air. There was a Xanacorp, however, which had been our first choice.
What did Odin whisper to the dead Balder the Light?
What did Titania whisper to Fox?
Was Norse myth the source that inspired you to put in the scene that had Titania whispering to Fox?
Haven't thought about this.
Maybe something about Balder?
I see you are making progress with your backlog of questions. This question is kind of an ammendment to another question of mine.
A couple of months ago I asked if your idea for Owen was influenced by an archetype I referred to as being "a supernatural charachter indentured to a human master." I made reference to djinn being bound within oak or silver. Now, I dont recall if I was thinking this at the time, but...
I had just recently viewed "Prospero's Books" by Peter Greenaway again. There is a rather disturbing scene therin, of Ariel, bound in his "cloven pine." Spitting out splinters of wood and carring on. It's all rather ghastly. I had, in the past, made the observation that Ariel could be an other example of this archetype. I think, however, that I needed the emphasis Greenaway placed on certain elements to make some connections apparent to me. Of some peripheral interest is the fact that ariel is another spirit bound in a tree, but of greater interest is the stress placed on the characters servitude to Prospero. It was not much of a stretch to *read Owen* into the character.
OF GREATER INTEREST was how easy it became to read Xanatos into Prospero. I was struck by several things in this vein. The first being the parallel between the two men's status as "mortal's" who had aquired great power through supernatural means; particularly through the service of a captive spirit. (I realize the term "captive" does not really describe Owen's situation.) Further, Xanatos' collection of supernatural artifacts (The Eye, the Grimorrim, even the Gargoyles) could be a reflection of Prospero's robes and staff. The artifacts which empower him.
I also considered (perhaps on the heels of watching an adaptation that placed such emphasis on Pospero's Books) that the Grimorrim might be a volume Xanatos "valued above his dukedom."
I wonder also if a reading of Xanatos as *the exiled duke* would be too far off. Milan is in rather close proximity to Greece. I believe you placed Petros Xanatos as a native, there. While Xanatos may not have been physically exiled from his place of birth, it could be argued that his distance from his father and their conflicted relationship could be read as a kind of exile.
Now, I realize you have your reasons for not wanting to confirm or deny ideas that you had for the show, but were not able to elaborate on before it's cancellation. I read the anecdote about the guy who thought you had stolen his idea. (Wasn't he asking about the characters from "The Tempest," actually?) At this point, however, I think you have rather concretely established that Shakespeare plays a rather prominent and consistent theme in "Gargoyles." I cant imagine that anyone would not be inclined to believe that you were going for this reading from the beginning.
Maybe I'm completely wrong about all of this, but I'm sure it will elicit some interesting commentary from you.
To be honest, the Prospero/Xanatos connection never occured to me -- probably because I have specific ideas for Prospero as a separate character, and also because I SO saw Xanatos as a Coyote Trickster type, and I don't see Prospero that way at all.
But you're analysis fascinated me.
Of course, with the exception of "Possession", Xanatos never got any real magical aide from Owen. (That was kind of the point of their bargain.) But still, I like that what we did had some deep archetypal resonance.
Looking back on "Hunter's Moon," it seems to me that the Xanatos's were not surprised to learn that the Gargoyles had lived above the clock tower. Had they figured it out already? If so, then when?
Okay, this next question is related to the other one, so I'll post it here. We all know that Xanatos likes to manipulate the clan and that he derives a certain satisfaction from their ongoing feud. But in "Cloud Father's," it seemed like hehad had enough of it. When he informed Goliath that these last minute upsets were becoming "irritating," he sounded more pissed off than I've ever heard him. So assuming that Xanatos did know where the clan slept during the day, why didn't he just go to the clock tower and smash them?
Why would he want them smashed? Maybe his irritation was with the feud, not them. THey'd been allies before, remember.
As for when they found out that the Gargs lived in the tower, it depends who you're referring too. Puck knew for awhile. I don't think Xanatos knew.
Before the Gathering, did Fox know about Owen being Puck?
I asked this way back in March, but I think the question got lost, so let me try again.
Were you ever going to reveal just how Demona and Xanatos teamed up? Xanatos is not exactly a trustworthy individual, and Demona's track record with humans has not been stellar. It's not like she would just go up to him and say "I'm a thousand-year old gargoyle with a grudge against humanity. Want to help me reawaken my clan?" And was she the one who gave him the Grimorum? Because if he got it from someone else, and Demona found out about it, then she would have obviously wanted to reclaim it, which would explain how they met, but not how they decided to work together. So what's the story?
Thanks for listening, and sorry if you have read this already.
Ever? Yes. In TimeDancer. It's a very complex story involving two different "dances", Brooklyn, Mary, Finella, Xanatos, Demona, Owen and Puck.
Just got done reading your commentary on, "Thrill of The Hunt". Loved it! hmm did that have anything to do with the fact it was on Lex?;) Anyway, You sorta answered a Q that I had written down at work today. Here is my Q.
As you just mentioned, Fox and Lex are almost instant a allies due to Alex. My Q's are.....
1) Were you planning on Lex and Alex's relationship to play a major or minor role? What I'm trying to ask is, were you just planning on having it be a nice side thing like a few shots of Lex playing with Alex or whatever..or were you going to make acutall episodes around it..was it going to play a big enough role to call it a role? *kicks herself* IM saying this all wrong!! *sighs*
2)Would Lex and Alex still be buds as he grows up?
3) What role do you think best describes Lex and Alex's relationship overall from his childhood to adulthood? IE: Alex trusts him as a confidant? Would Lex be more of a buddy? Mentor?
1. Yes. I had at least one story in mind where Alex is kidnapped by Raven. Lex would have been very involved in saving him. That story became an episode of Goliath Chronicles -- one which I don't like much, but which wasn't as annoying as some of the stories that followed.
3. Older Brother.
Nope..still not done yet..
Ok, I put this in a separate post _just_ in case.
1) Could you tell us what the episode, "Ransom" would have been like if you had had more control over it?
I put this in a separate post cuz..as you may notice you have answered this one from me before. I admit that. Its just that when you did it was awful vague. I was just wondering if right now you could tell us something more besides, "It was pretty much the same plot except the kidnappers were from Avalon." Ok they were from Avalon?
2) Would we have seen these characters in any episodes after Ransom?
We never saw Puck in TGC. But im SURE Alex getting kidnapped would have warrented a Puck episode;)
3) Would Puck have been the first one to know and not his parents?
Everyone got together trying to figure out how to go about getting Alex back
4) In the ep you had planned, would it have been more of a Puck/Lex teamup?
5) Where would've the mystery characters from Avalon taken our lil prince?
U know..Q's like that?
1. Is that quotation an actual quotation or a paraphrase? I can't imagine that's what I wrote. It certainly was never going to be the same plot. It was a Tricksters story. Initially it was to include Owen/Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote. Plus Lex and the Family Xanatos. I think as time has gone on, I would have dropped Anansi and Coyote from this one. Focused more on Raven as the Trickster/Villain. Saved the multi-Trickster episode for another story.
2. In that season or ever?
3. Uh, I don't pretend to have every little detail worked out. I never actually wrote the story, I simply proposed it. They took a kernel of it and turned it into Ransom.
5. Don't know.
While watching City of Stone and Mirror something Demona said struck me. She knew about Owen's alter ego, Puck. How did she figure it out?
Puck/Owen introduced Demona to Xanatos.
why do civilians like macbeth and xanatos have laser weapons while the police force is using automatics and slugs?
Macbeth largely uses Electro-Magnetic technology, but I get your point. Both these guys are extremely rich and have the time and money to invest in the development of hi-tech experimental weapons.
And generally speaking, aren't cops always a step behind technologically? (That's not meant as a criticism, just as a reality check.)
Sorry to leave this as an amorphous blob of a question, but it is really one complex question on Fox: You have said that she is human [life expectancy, magical ability, etc] because she was raised that way. But Titania in The Gathering said she tried to get Fox's magic to surface many times. It almost seemed as if there was some sort of block on that magic surfacing. Is there a block, be it exterior to Fox, or from within her own subconscious? (if so, is it interior or exterior?) Granted Titania's efforts were probably not that straightforward, [I would assume the events of the Gathering were such a test, perhaps Walkabout.] wouldn't the earliest attempts, the ones when Fox was a child, have been more straight forward, and only when they failed, and Fox was old enough to do that endearing thing little children do (repeat what they oughtn't at inopportune moments) that they became hidden? I can see Titania wanting to raise a child that would appear to everyone as fully human even if it meant the child itself not knowing for a while, but did Titania want to raise a truly fully mortal child? It seems hard to believe that Titania would want to put herself through having a child only to have it age and die in a blink of her life span. Since you have said much depends on her POV, should Fox change her perception of herself could she tap into substantial fey magic, life expectancy? Do you see that happening?
Uh... What was the question?
I'm not sure that Fox won't have a slightly longer life expectancy. But I wouldn't use the term "block" at all. There's no block. Her natural abilities have simply not been nurtured. Think of it as a muscle that has atrophied. Titania/Anastasia may have made some mistakes, may not have thought things out in advance. May have had one or more changes of heart. Where things go from here depends on a number of factors -- and in any case is a story for another day.
Or was that what you were asking?
According to what I've heard about your discussion of "The New Olympians" spin-off that you'd planned at the Gatherings, Xanatos would have shown up in it as a sort of trading partner to New Olympus, both under his own name and under Xavier. You've mentioned here earlier that Xavier was the "first-draft" name for Xanatos, back when "Gargoyles" was going to be a comedy series. Was Xavier/Xanatos originally created for the "New Olympians" series when it was first thought up, before "Gargoyles" came along, and then transfered to "Gargoyles" when "New Olympians" didn't get off the ground (the same as the New Olympians themselves eventually)?
First off, there is no Xavier in the Garg Universe. The Xanatos name completely took it's place. And Xavier never appeared in the New Olympian Pitch. We pitched New Olympians first, pre-Gargoyles. (Based on an idea by Bob Kline.) Then after Gargoyles was up and running, we trotted the New Olympian pitch back out, made some minor changes, including the addition of Xanatos and pitched the show again. Still with no success.
But Xanatos was created for Gargoyles. Adding him to New Olympians, was an afterthought.
After a sudden impulse of creativity I forced myself to do some *gasp, shudder* RESEARCH. Okay, I just checked my dictionaries, but still... I found that, indeed, Halcyon is the name of a bird... and Halcyon Renard's right-hand man is called Vogel, which means bird in German... intentional joke, or coincidence? (Concidering that their first appearance was in an airborne vessel, I lean toward the former...) So, what's the story? Did you have a punster come up with that one, or what? :)
Cary Bates came up with both names. Actually, his orignal name for Halcyon Renard was Renard Halcyon. I switched it so that Fox was adapting her last name into her new name, not simply taking adapting her father's first name. That seemed weird, considering she was basically rejecting his value system.
I was unaware of the bird connections in either name. I can't say for sure if Cary knew. The word "halcyon" suggests a phrase like "those halcyon days of yore". That is something wonderful and nostaligic. It seemed very appropriate to the guy with the seemingly archaic value system.
Oh, and this is a little "general response" to "Max Steel", since my initial comments on the pilot episode also got lost in the crash.
I haven't fully made up my mind about it. On the one hand, the genre (secret agent-type adventure) isn't as much my personal piece of cake as the genre (urban fantasy with medieval connections) of "Gargoyles" was, so I haven't gotten as much into "Max Steel" so far. But I do think that it's quite well-written, with a good job on the conflicts that the hero has to face between his everyday life as Josh McGuire and his Max Steel role. My favorite part in it so far, however, has been the scenes involving the "mastermind villain" (Dredd, I believe his name was), who's got that same "calmly logical" quality that I found so appealing in Xanatos; I like how he responds to defeat in that very philosophical fashion. (In "Strangers", when discovering that L'Etrange's attempt to kidnap the German government for him failed, he just says with a shrug, "My fault, for entrusting such an important assignment to free-lancers", and in "Sphinxes", his commentary on the whole adventure at the Pyramids at the end definitely sounds Xanatosian, as he dwells on what they succeeded at and not what they failed at. I'm finding this element very appealing, not just because of its Xanatos-reminiscent style, but also because I rather like that kind of villain in general.
Yeah, Dread is very Xanatosian (or rather both of them are quite Eiling-esque). I was bothered by that for awhile. Like I wasn't being original. But the truth is I had plans for Dread that would have clearly set him apart from Xanatos. (Plans that I won't be executing now.) And at any rate, I agree with you. That's the kind of villain I like. One I can respect.
And it's Josh McGrath, by the way, not McGuire.
You said that when Fox mainfested as a where fox, it was her own inner conflict and hatred emerging. My question is: why does she hate herself?
I've always wondered...
A werefox. Not a where fox. And that's not what I said exactly. That's what I said happened when she looked at Elisa and saw herself. The Werefox was trying to kill Fox.
My husband and I were talking this weekend about some of the great American industrialists; people like Carnegie, Pullman, and Kaiser to name a few of the better known ones (thank you PBS). We are both Garg fans, so this question came up in our rambling and I thought it would be interesting to see what your answer would be. I have my own ideas, as does DH (he thinks I'm romanticising a bit too much), but I would like to hear your ideas as well. So here it is:
In his younger days, did David Xanatos admire/idolize any of the past or present industrialists (real or fictional)? I'm sure he studied how they ran thier businesses, so did he also use any company as a model for his early empire?
Probably. After all, David is without doubt a student of history. But I'd have to study those past Robber Barons to get specific with you.
But being a Stanford graduate, the name Leland Stanford immediately comes to mind. Notions of immortality included.
Do you have to be a fay in order to be a trickster? I'm asking this because Xanatos is 100 % human, and he's definitely a trickster-figure just as surely as are Puck, Raven, Anansi, and Coyote, at least IMHO.
Technically, yes. But anyone with the soul of a con artist, the hands of a pickpocket and a decent sense of humor can be a trickster.
Hi mr. Weisman!
In Metamorphosis, why Xanatos didn't provided Goliath's DNA to Sevarius?
He had already. That was a lie to help fool Derek. Thailog was already in the works.
I was watching Gargoyles today mainly the "Cities of Stone" episodes. I noticed when demona was casting her spell she said to Owen when he was in a frozen state "You are the tricky one so we will make sure you stay put". Which makes me wonder, did Demona know that Owen was Puck? And if she knew that Owen is Puck, how long has she known that?
Yes, she knows. She's known since before the rest of the clan was awakened.
There's a similar clue in "The Mirror", when Demona says to Puck, "You serve the human [i.e. Xanatos], you can serve me now." (Or something like that.
Is the reason that Alexander is considered a Children of Oberon while Merlin is considered a halfling because Alexander is basically more powerful than Merlin?
Who made those assumptions?
Merlin's technically a halfling because Oberon is his father but his mother is human.
Fox is also theoretically a halfling. Her mother is Titania. Her father is the human Halcyon Renard.
Alexander is technically a quarterling, I guess. He's fully human on his father's side and half human on his mother's side.
1) Who has more money, Macbeth or Xanatos?
2) How much money do the Canmores have?
3) Just how much did the Pack profit financially from their tv show?
1. From a liquid standpoint, Xanatos. Macbeth may have some extremely valuable items, that would be worth a fortune if he was willing to part with them, but he's largely not...
2. An extremely large trust.
3. Quite a bit. But not as much as Xanatos did.
This is another response to a ramble on another beautiful ep!
Like Erin said, it's not supposed to happen. The brother of our heroine isn't supposed to be in the employ of the Bad Guy. The thing that interested me most was that scene with the different reactions between the trio. Broadway and Brooklyn's lines beg some thought… Derek should trust you… but trust doesn't mean much without honesty. In a kid's show, there is usually a very clear definition between Good and Bad, but Brooklyn is subtly saying that she hasn't been entirely honest with her brother. I love my trio. Oops, there's three. And poor Lex who carries a grudge as long as any other gargoyle is inching out the Six trying to start hunting the Pack down. Great personality work. These aren't Huey Duey and Louie.
Again, the Good and Bad thing going on with Xanatos. He's supposed to be the antagonist, but he just acts so… suave! One might mistake him for a great guy… I guess Derek did.
The scene with Fox? I think the beams of light from heaven surrounding her enraptured face as she pictures "David" gave it away. :) When I first saw it, I for some reason thought that Fox was infatuated with Xanatos, but didn't know it was mutual. Silly me.
Nah, you're not silly. We had to have some secrets.
In regards to "Her Brother's Keeper."
Great episode for Xanatos. The convuluted plan demands respect, but I was even more impressed with how his whole team worked together. While Elisa is bickering with her brother, Xanantos, Fox, and Owen are working together seamlessly to call the tune. Even Jackal and Hyena seem to be playing at sibling rivalry rather than suffering from it.
And, yes, it was obvious Fox had a thing for Xanatos here. Also that she was already pretty close to him. Not only is there that whole "brilliant man" line, but she also calls him David. Not many people in the series are on a first name basis with the guy.
The coyote diamond would be a great clue later on in the series. Was this conscious forshadowing for "Leader of the Pack" or "Cloud Fathers?" I'd guess almost certainly the former and perhaps the latter as well.
Xanatos and Coyote. Two-sides of a coin.
In the episode 'Future Tense,' Demona is killed by Cyber-Xanatos, didn't Goliath know something was up then? Because clearly Xanatos is not MacBeth, and therefore cannot kill Demona...Puck knew Demona was immortal because of 'The Mirror,' did Puck just kinda forget, or was he not worried about the details of his little scheme. Just a little somethin' somethin' to ponder and answer for us, or just me
I think that Goliath's head was fairly well turned upside down by all that had happened up to that point.
As for Puck, what in "The Mirror" gives you the impression that Puck/Owen knows about the Demona/Macbeth connection?