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So I know you've answered this a number of times over the years, but rather than I asking the nth time, I've spent a while thinking about the "how".
So Macbeth and Demona cannot die but by their own hand and although there are situations that seem like they could die by another's (beheading, smashed stone, etc), these situations cannot happen because of the spell the Wierd Sisters placed on them. It protects them from assured fatal injuries that normally would kill mortals (again beheading, smashed stone, etc). The spell basically would manipulate events to ensure that Macbeth and Demona would always get out of such a situation (Macbeth getting caught in the French Revolution and is scheduled to be beheaded but some mishap with the dungeon keys delays it, buying him time to escape or Demona is forced to roost elsewhere instead of her normal spot because of some freak storm preventing her in getting back, thus sparing her from being smashed by the Hunters one morning).
They would have uncanny luck in avoiding death situations that would otherwise be assured.
I guess you're basically right, but I would recharacterize it. The Sisters may not have magically enforced this "manipulation," as you put it, so much as they magically predicted future events.
Rewatched "Pendragon" on DVD yesterday. A few observations from this time around.
Hudson recognizes the wind that heralds the arrival of King Arthur and Griff; I suspected that there's an interesting story behind that and how he came to know it. Most likely something that would be told in "Dark Ages".
Griff refers to Westminster Abbey as "my abbey" when initially confronting King Arthur - for me, it evoked Goliath speaking of "my castle" when confronting Elisa back in "Awakening Part Three". Evidently part of the gargoyles' territorial nature manifesting itself.
Macbeth immediately recognizes Griff as a gargoyle, though all his on-stage encounters with gargoyles up till then were with the Scottish variety. (Of course, most of the things that went on during those nine hundred years of wandering in his life, we don't know about - only his fighting at Bannockburn on the Scottish side, and taking part in the 1950 removal of the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey.)
I really like the term "rookery poem" as a gargoyle counterpart to "nursery rhyme".
Someone should write a book of rookery poems...
Rewatched "Sanctuary" on DVD today. New observations.
Elisa writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as serious as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still a bit unfortunate.
I was amused to note that Demona barely even registers Elisa's presence in the middle of her fight with Macbeth, even though Elisa's calling out to both of them - until just before Elisa shoots her. She does finally spot the detective and aim at her, but Elisa takes her down before she can do more than that. Apparently her feud with Macbeth tops even her hatred for Elisa.
I felt a sense of near-horror, though, as I noticed how Demona and Macbeth's fight was damaging the library, with several books apparently getting damaged or destroyed.
And the silhouette of a gargoyle against the moon in the newspaper photograph bears an uncanny similarity (obviously coincidental) to the Bat-Signal.
Those typos drive me nuts.
Rewatched the "Avalon" triptych on DVD today. A few new observations.
The Magus's lyre in the "flashback on Avalon" scene looks a lot like Merlin's lyre in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Obviously not the same one, but evidently both wizards share a common taste in musical instruments.
Princess Katharine and the Magus's telling Elisa "Little is known of the Sleeping King" struck me as all the more appropriate since in 995, nearly all the major works on King Arthur had yet to be written (Geoffrey of Monmouth's "History of the Kings of Britain", the oldest extant start-to-finish account of Arthur's life, wouldn't be written for over a hundred years). There were one or two, like Nennius's "Historia Brittonum", but that was about it.
A detail that I hadn't spotted before: a couple of gargoyle-like sculptures were "guarding" the bridge leading to Arthur's resting-place within the Hollow Hill.
King Arthur and Goliath have both used a mace while fighting Macbeth (Goliath did so in "Enter Macbeth") - one of a few points in common they share (others are awakening in the modern world from a long enchanted sleep, and having scheming illegitimate sons).
The Archmage's boast that he could destroy Goliath with "just a word" struck me as apt, since all the "enhanced Archmage"'s spells were one-word ones ("Vessel", "Revert", "Ice", etc.).
It's difficult not to smile at Elisa's "Souvenirs" question after Season One of "Young Justice". Fortunately, she was asking it in a lighthearted tone.
Certain elements run through my work, I suppose...
Rewatched "The Price" on DVD yesterday.
This time around, I noted the Macbeth-robot's "trophies" line, and how that continued the "hunting" imagery I'd been paying close attention to in the series during my 25th anniversary viewing. Because trophies are one of the reasons why someone would be hunting. (As far as I can tell, it's the only time that was given as a motive for hunting gargoyles - and, of course, it doesn't count, since it was all part of the misdirection tactic.)
I rewatched "High Noon" over the weekend. ("Outfoxed", as well, but I'm giving it a separate entry.)
What struck me most about this episode this time around was that it was almost a "Shakespeare villain team-up" - Macbeth (and Demona, whom you could describe as a "Lady Macbeth" analogue) team up with Iago (more accurately, a gargoyle analogue for Iago, who's only called that in the voice actor credits). I doubt that Shakespeare should have objected to that, since he'd written at least one crossover himself ("A Midsummer Night's Dream", which blends Greek mythology with English fairy-lore).
I still like the touch of Hudson and Broadway learning to read from the newspaper - poor Broadway's still finding the word "right" a challenge (cf. "The Silver Falcon"). Again, I'm going to have to look through some books on the history of the English language to find out how so many words which sound like "-ite" came to end, in written form, with "-ight". It's probably one of the biggest challenges to someone learning written English.
Broadway's excited cry, as he and Hudson enter Macbeth's library, "Look at all these books!" struck me all the more, when I thought that, to someone who'd been born (well, hatched) and grown up in the 10th century, a library that size would indeed seem miraculous. What a difference the printing press has made!
"Iago"'s cry as "Othello" and "Desdemona" recover control of Coldstone, "I am besieged!", grabbed me this time around - such a dramatic way of describing the struggle within.
And this time, I also noted Coldstone's statement that, as long as "Iago"'s trying to recover control, "no *living* gargoyle" (emphasis mine) is safe from him. It brings home, I think, his awareness that he's now an "undead gargoyle".
Glad you liked it, still, after all these years.
Rewatched "City of Stone" today (all four episodes). A few things that stood out to me this time.
Continuing the "gargoyles being called beasts" thread: the granary guards in Part One call Demona's clan "filthy beasts". Gillecomgain doesn't use the term "beast" for Demona, but does call her a creature and a monster.
(By contrast, the "breastplate gargoyle" comments about their old home, after Demona and her clan have to abandon it following Duncan's attack, "The hunting there was good" - probably one of the few occasions where gargoyles are talking about being the hunters rather than the hunted.)
Demona's clan uses nets twice in this multi-parter - once against the granary guards in Part One, once against Canmore's army in Part Four. The nets being in Parts One and Four gave a nice sense of "bookends".
A detail that I can't believe I missed before: Demona was bearing the Hunter's mask at her belt, as if a trophy, after the battle with Duncan. (The young Canmore grabs it from her during his attack upon her.)
Demona calls Bronx "my pet"; I looked up your remarks on gargoyle beasts in the archives and found that gargoyles don't see gargoyle beasts as pets, but as equals. Maybe another sign that Demona thinks far more like a human than she'd admit (or than it would be safe to tell her)?
I like the touch of the various new kings (like Macbeth and Lulach) being hailed as "High King of Scotland" - the "high king" part conveys all the more a sense of Scotland as a collection of recently-united chiefdoms (which it would have been at the time in actual history).
We tried to get a feeling for the actual history into the piece.
Rewatched "Enter Macbeth" today.
I can't help womdering what must be going through Hudson's head as he watches a Donald Duck cartoon, thoughtfully stroking his beard. The spectacle of a duck grown to human size, wearing clothes and speaking (kind of) could be an even bigger argument for not believing everything you see on television than the revelation of the Pack's true nature.
U remember in your ramble on "Enter Macbeth", your daughter spotted what looked like the Mona Lisa in Macbeth's mansion. This time around, I noticed a portrait of a man apparently in 18th century attire, who reminded me of portraits I'd seen of Bonnie Prince Charlie.
The doors to Macbeth get it both coming and going; they first get broken down when Bronx escapes, and when he returns with Goliath, they demolish a second pair of doors. (Of course, it becomes academic after the whole mansion gets burned down.)
Lexington talks about getting the clock working again; I wonder if he ever succeeded before the Canmores blew the place up.
1. Donald is a mystery to us all... ;)
2. I think Macbeth owned a lot of expensive art.
3. Yeah, so much destruction.
4. He never did.
I have some questions about Macbeth and his family:
1)Is Macbeth religious? I imagine he was a Catholic back in the eleventh century, but in the present day, is he lapsed or what?
2)How much does Mac know of what happened to his family after his "death"? I suppose he knows that Luach and Bodhe died in battle, but does he know that Grouch commited suicide?
3)If yes, did that color his suicidal behavior in the present day?
1. I'd have to do a bit of research about the church in the Eleventh Century. Macbeth did, if I'm recalling correctly, visit the Pope.
1a. Probably "what".
2. All of it.
3. That's for the audience to interpret.
1. Between 1020 and 1032, what was Macbeth's job or title? He wasn't expected to become either King of Scotland or High Steward of Moray, so what was he doing (or being trained to do) during that time?
1b. Who did he directly answer to? Who had direct control/power over him? Gillecomgain, Duncan, Maol Chalvim...?
2. What was Macbeth's in-universe relationship with his cousin Thorfinn like?
3. You've said, when asked about his religion, that Mac's omnireligious currently. Do his beliefs lean towards any religion in particular? Like Christianity, Buddhism, etc? If so, which one?
4. Does Macbeth know the details about Gruoch's death? How she died, when, etc?
Thank you. :)
1b. Whomever was king at the time.
2. No spoilers.
3. Probably still Christianity, with Pagan overtones.
1. You said that Demona would have 4 or 5 great loves total. Does that number include the one-sided romantic relationships she's been in? Like the Paris romance with Macbeth and her romance with Thailog, in which only one partner genuinely loved the other.
2. You said that Demona's clan, between 1040 and 1057, often slept at Castle Moray but never all at once. What was the reason for that? Was Demona's distrust of humans a factor?
2b. What was Demona's primary residence during that time?
3. When Demona is human during the day, does she experience any psychological changes due to her being fully human? The human hormones, instincts, etc... do they affect her perceptions/interests/attractions in any way?
4. Between 1040 and 1057, did Demona have anyone other than Macbeth, human or gargoyle, that she was friends with? Was there anyone as close or closer to her than him?
Thank you. :)
1. I don't think I said that. Can you give me a reference? I definitely wouldn't count what we've seen of either Macbeth or Thailog in Paris.
2b. Castle Moray.
3. Not that she'd acknowledge.
4. No spoilers.
1. As of the end of the SLG comics, do either Macbeth or Demona know about what they did during the weeks that they were controlled by the Weird Sisters? Do they know about their actions in High Noon, how they were forced to attack the innocent people (inc Katharine, Mac's only remaining relative, and Demona's children) on Avalon, etc?
If not, what do they think happened to them between their fight in New York and waking up in Paris?
If either does know, how do they feel about the Weird Sisters as a result?
2. Do Macbeth and Demona share the "anguish" mentioned by the Weird Sisters in CoS4 the same way they share physical pain? For example, on their wedding night in Paris, could Demona feel Macbeth's emotional pain as if it were her own?
If not, how does that part of their link work?
3. Is the shared pleasure part of Demona and Macbeth's link physical, emotional, or both?
Thank you. :)
1. Largely, they do not.
1a. It's perplexing.
1b. I doubt either of them are terribly fond of the Weird Sisters in any case.
2. Emotional pain? That would require enough selflessness to acknowledge that anyone else has emotional pain.
2a. You're assuming that anguish isn't physical?
3. Have we established shared pleasure?
In Enter MacBeth, MacBeth refers to Demona as the Gargoyles' queen. But wouldn't she or even someone of her clan from the past have told him a bit about Gargoyles and their clans and that they didn't have kings or queens? Or did she leave him to believe she was their queen?
I think you're taking his statement too literally. He saw her as the leader of the gargoyles, which she was during the key moment of his natural life. He views leaders in terms of kings and queens, so used that language. (Also as a chess metaphor, I seem to recall.) But he wasn't speaking or thinking about her this way literally.
Hello! I am a huge fan of your work. I was wondering, what would have happened if someone were to travel back in time, and keep Macbeth from saving Duncan from falling off the cliff in City of Stone Part Three?
In the Gargoyle's Universe that isn't possible. It happened, so it happened. We had very strict rules of time travel.
I remember your mentioning that in the proposed "Weird Macbeth" story, you'd cast Goliath as Macduff. It recently occurred to me that that would fit the "none of woman born" element (as with Demona earlier) - if in a different manner than the Macduff of the original play.
I don't know if that was one of the reasons you'd cast Goliath for that role, but I thought I'd mention it.
It's all in there.
Since Demona is still around as of the Gargoyles 2198 spinoff, that means MacBeth is still around as well. I know you won't discuss any actual plans for the character (SPOILERS!), but can you tell us if you had specific plans for him? Or did the outline for 2198 not get that far?
I have plans for everyone and everything.
1)When Macbeth first fought the Manhattan Clan, did he know they were members of Demona's original clan? And that Goliath was her former mate?
2)As of Phoenix, how much does Mac know of Demona's past before they first met? Does he know about the Wyvern Massacre and the role she played?
3)During the 17 golden years of Mac's kingdom, did he and Demona ever discuss her past? And if yes, how honest was she?
1. He knew the former, not necessarily the latter.
2. I assume you mean as of the END (i.e. the present day 1997 ending) of Phoenix. If so, he knows about the massacre. He's heard HER version of the role she played. I doubt she'd have copped to the entire truth.
3a. She was completely honest to her thinking. Emotionally honest. She just left out a few details.
Hi Greg! It`s me again, Austrias biggest Gargoyles and Rain of the ghosts fan! I`m still hoping for more Comics and/or a continuation of the series.
I am deeply fascinated with the subplot about Demona and Macbeth. They are by far my favorites.
There is one thing I don`t understand. According to Gargoyles Timeline Gruoch was about 27-28 when she had to marry Gilcomghain. Judging by medieval standards she was a very old maid. Why wasn`t she married at "the right age" like 15 or so as it was the custom for a gentle woman?
Why didn`t Macbeth and Gruoch marry years before? They grew up in the same castle, were fond of each other, Macbeth was evidently wealthy and of noble birth so why did`t they just get engaged around the age of 18-22 or so when they were of age? What was the problem?
Best wishes for your current projects! Can`t wait to see "Masque of Bones" (P.S. Any news about its publication yet?)
Historically, what happened, happened. We were only able to guess at the reasons.
So, in universe, Macbeth was without a father and had his inheritance ripped away. (So he was no longer wealthy, and he was virtually homeless.) That gave Gruoch's father pause about allowing Gruoch & Macbeth to marry. Gruoch wouldn't marry anyone else, until Macbeth was convinced by Bodhe to reject her.
And they didn't grow up in the same castle. Bodhe and Gruoch were VISITING the night Findlaech was killed. And that was the first time Macbeth and Gruoch met. They fell in love then and thereafter, but by that time Macbeth was S.O.L.
As for Masque of Bones, I haven't written it yet, because I've been writing World of Warcraft: Traveler novels for Blizzard and Scholastic.
I estimate Macbeth is, or at least was, a fan of theater given that he knew Shakespeare well, liked the Macbeth play, and borrows his aliases from it.
1. What are some other plays he was particularly fond of? Of any genre or time period. The idea of Macbeth attending Broadway musicals makes me smile.
2. Did he ever try his hand at acting or play-writing? Especially in the more modern times, the stage seems like the last vestige for an immortal to physically revisit some of those olden days. Can't say if it would be nostalgic or not for him though.
1. I'll leave that to your imagination.
2. I think so.
Hi Greg. Hope you're well. I'm working through my to-read pile, but I have both Rain of Ghost novels on my desk waiting. I'm glad you decided to put books out. Xanatos, Macbeth, & Puck/Owen are my favorite characters from any medium, and I recently found out my dad loves the Star Wars Rebels series. He never watches cartoons. I haven't seen it yet, but he said he enjoys it because the characters were written really well. I wasn't surprised to hear that.
Had some more domestic, trivia-type question regarding Macbeth during his retirement from the world around 2198 & earlier (pre-Invasion). Couldn't find anything in the Archives.
1. How is Macbeth occupying his time by this point? Activities, interests, etc. I'm very interested in this sort of thing because I feel it adds dimensions to characters.
2. Secondly, was there something specific that caused him to want to withdraw from the world?
3. What was it, if you're willing to share?
Respect & Appreciation,
1. No spoilers.
2. No spoilers.
3. No spoilers.
1) The spell the Weird Sisters cast on Demona and Macbeth ensures that the two of them are unaging and immortal, only able to be killed by one another. However, in "The Mirror", Demona expresses her wish to no longer turn to stone during the day, stating it makes her "vulnerable".
If Demona were to be shattered by someone other than Macbeth when stone during the day, would it bypass the Weird Sister's enchantment and kill both her and Macbeth permanently, or would the enchantment be powerful enough to simply piece her back together?
1. Vulnerable to Macbeth, at least. The rest of your question is hypothetical and moot.
Hello, Mr. Weisman. Back again.
Something that bugged me a little when I was watching "High Noon" and "The Price"; in both episodes, Goliath wonders how Macbeth could have escaped from the Weird Sisters (of course, Macbeth didn't actually escape, but that's neither here nor there with regards to my point).
Anyway, my question is this: did it never occur to Goliath that the Weird Sisters might have just let Macbeth go? After all, he doesn't really know anything about the Sisters at this point; they're almost entirely an unknown quantity. Did he think that they'd keep Macbeth and Demona prisoner indefinitely (that isn't rhetorical; I really do want to know)?
Thank you for your time, sir. Have a nice day.
I don't know about indefinitely, but the Sisters didn't take them casually, hence Goliath's response.
Gargoyles is a great show. Now that my praise is out of the way, I'm moving onto the question.
I watched the version of City of Stone with your commentary (which was very amusing) but there was one part which stood out to me. In the beginning of Part 4, we see Demona of the eleventh century meet up with Macbeth. You (or one of the other commenters) acknowledged that Demona was, and I quote, "a bit in love with Macbeth". It makes sense why she would feel this way, seeing that Macbeth was a close ally of hers.
Was this really true, or were these possible feelings of hers frivolous?
Um... all of the above?
Mostly, I prefer to leave that to every viewer's interpretation.
At the Blue Mug Convergence 2014 Panel, you have stated that Mac and Demona had lots of sex while they were engaged. Didn't you previously state that "Dominique" had presented herself as a good catholic french girl, presumably to avoid having sex with him?
One of the two was a mistake, you changed your mind, or what?
(By the way, I must admit that, if you did change your mind, I liked the original version more.)
All things are true. Few things are accurate.
Or put another way, don't take a Blue Mug TOO seriously.
I think the original answer is better too.
Why does Demona and MacBeth's pact make it where they can only die by each other's hand's?
I understand that neither can die while the other lives, but wouldn't that just mean that they would both have to be killed at the same time? And if the one killing the other isn't physically hurt by the same action why does that supersede the "when one lives, both shall live" rule.
Also, what happens if they're decapitated or if Demona had been destroyed during the day when she still turned to stone?
The pact is what the Weird Sisters declared it was. That was one of their conditions. They could have chosen a different condition, but they didn't.
The "when one lives, both shall live" condition means specifically that no one else can kill them. Because as long as one of them is alive, the curse will drag the "dead" one back into life, as you saw in multiple episodes.
And if Demona kills Macbeth or vice versa, the other is hurt - in fact killed by the action. So it supersedes the other rule because that's what the Witches declared.
As for the what happens if question, it's moot. Because it's a hypothetical question that hasn't/didn't/pretty much won't ever occur, because Luna is the Weird Sister of fate and knows.
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