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So I know you've answered this a number of times over the years, but rather than I asking the nth time, I've spent a while thinking about the "how".
So Macbeth and Demona cannot die but by their own hand and although there are situations that seem like they could die by another's (beheading, smashed stone, etc), these situations cannot happen because of the spell the Wierd Sisters placed on them. It protects them from assured fatal injuries that normally would kill mortals (again beheading, smashed stone, etc). The spell basically would manipulate events to ensure that Macbeth and Demona would always get out of such a situation (Macbeth getting caught in the French Revolution and is scheduled to be beheaded but some mishap with the dungeon keys delays it, buying him time to escape or Demona is forced to roost elsewhere instead of her normal spot because of some freak storm preventing her in getting back, thus sparing her from being smashed by the Hunters one morning).
They would have uncanny luck in avoiding death situations that would otherwise be assured.
I guess you're basically right, but I would recharacterize it. The Sisters may not have magically enforced this "manipulation," as you put it, so much as they magically predicted future events.
Rewatched "Pendragon" on DVD yesterday. A few observations from this time around.
Hudson recognizes the wind that heralds the arrival of King Arthur and Griff; I suspected that there's an interesting story behind that and how he came to know it. Most likely something that would be told in "Dark Ages".
Griff refers to Westminster Abbey as "my abbey" when initially confronting King Arthur - for me, it evoked Goliath speaking of "my castle" when confronting Elisa back in "Awakening Part Three". Evidently part of the gargoyles' territorial nature manifesting itself.
Macbeth immediately recognizes Griff as a gargoyle, though all his on-stage encounters with gargoyles up till then were with the Scottish variety. (Of course, most of the things that went on during those nine hundred years of wandering in his life, we don't know about - only his fighting at Bannockburn on the Scottish side, and taking part in the 1950 removal of the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey.)
I really like the term "rookery poem" as a gargoyle counterpart to "nursery rhyme".
Someone should write a book of rookery poems...
Rewatched "Sanctuary" on DVD today. New observations.
Elisa writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as serious as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still a bit unfortunate.
I was amused to note that Demona barely even registers Elisa's presence in the middle of her fight with Macbeth, even though Elisa's calling out to both of them - until just before Elisa shoots her. She does finally spot the detective and aim at her, but Elisa takes her down before she can do more than that. Apparently her feud with Macbeth tops even her hatred for Elisa.
I felt a sense of near-horror, though, as I noticed how Demona and Macbeth's fight was damaging the library, with several books apparently getting damaged or destroyed.
And the silhouette of a gargoyle against the moon in the newspaper photograph bears an uncanny similarity (obviously coincidental) to the Bat-Signal.
Those typos drive me nuts.
Rewatched the "Avalon" triptych on DVD today. A few new observations.
The Magus's lyre in the "flashback on Avalon" scene looks a lot like Merlin's lyre in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Obviously not the same one, but evidently both wizards share a common taste in musical instruments.
Princess Katharine and the Magus's telling Elisa "Little is known of the Sleeping King" struck me as all the more appropriate since in 995, nearly all the major works on King Arthur had yet to be written (Geoffrey of Monmouth's "History of the Kings of Britain", the oldest extant start-to-finish account of Arthur's life, wouldn't be written for over a hundred years). There were one or two, like Nennius's "Historia Brittonum", but that was about it.
A detail that I hadn't spotted before: a couple of gargoyle-like sculptures were "guarding" the bridge leading to Arthur's resting-place within the Hollow Hill.
King Arthur and Goliath have both used a mace while fighting Macbeth (Goliath did so in "Enter Macbeth") - one of a few points in common they share (others are awakening in the modern world from a long enchanted sleep, and having scheming illegitimate sons).
The Archmage's boast that he could destroy Goliath with "just a word" struck me as apt, since all the "enhanced Archmage"'s spells were one-word ones ("Vessel", "Revert", "Ice", etc.).
It's difficult not to smile at Elisa's "Souvenirs" question after Season One of "Young Justice". Fortunately, she was asking it in a lighthearted tone.
Certain elements run through my work, I suppose...
Rewatched "The Price" on DVD yesterday.
This time around, I noted the Macbeth-robot's "trophies" line, and how that continued the "hunting" imagery I'd been paying close attention to in the series during my 25th anniversary viewing. Because trophies are one of the reasons why someone would be hunting. (As far as I can tell, it's the only time that was given as a motive for hunting gargoyles - and, of course, it doesn't count, since it was all part of the misdirection tactic.)
I rewatched "High Noon" over the weekend. ("Outfoxed", as well, but I'm giving it a separate entry.)
What struck me most about this episode this time around was that it was almost a "Shakespeare villain team-up" - Macbeth (and Demona, whom you could describe as a "Lady Macbeth" analogue) team up with Iago (more accurately, a gargoyle analogue for Iago, who's only called that in the voice actor credits). I doubt that Shakespeare should have objected to that, since he'd written at least one crossover himself ("A Midsummer Night's Dream", which blends Greek mythology with English fairy-lore).
I still like the touch of Hudson and Broadway learning to read from the newspaper - poor Broadway's still finding the word "right" a challenge (cf. "The Silver Falcon"). Again, I'm going to have to look through some books on the history of the English language to find out how so many words which sound like "-ite" came to end, in written form, with "-ight". It's probably one of the biggest challenges to someone learning written English.
Broadway's excited cry, as he and Hudson enter Macbeth's library, "Look at all these books!" struck me all the more, when I thought that, to someone who'd been born (well, hatched) and grown up in the 10th century, a library that size would indeed seem miraculous. What a difference the printing press has made!
"Iago"'s cry as "Othello" and "Desdemona" recover control of Coldstone, "I am besieged!", grabbed me this time around - such a dramatic way of describing the struggle within.
And this time, I also noted Coldstone's statement that, as long as "Iago"'s trying to recover control, "no *living* gargoyle" (emphasis mine) is safe from him. It brings home, I think, his awareness that he's now an "undead gargoyle".
Glad you liked it, still, after all these years.
Rewatched "City of Stone" today (all four episodes). A few things that stood out to me this time.
Continuing the "gargoyles being called beasts" thread: the granary guards in Part One call Demona's clan "filthy beasts". Gillecomgain doesn't use the term "beast" for Demona, but does call her a creature and a monster.
(By contrast, the "breastplate gargoyle" comments about their old home, after Demona and her clan have to abandon it following Duncan's attack, "The hunting there was good" - probably one of the few occasions where gargoyles are talking about being the hunters rather than the hunted.)
Demona's clan uses nets twice in this multi-parter - once against the granary guards in Part One, once against Canmore's army in Part Four. The nets being in Parts One and Four gave a nice sense of "bookends".
A detail that I can't believe I missed before: Demona was bearing the Hunter's mask at her belt, as if a trophy, after the battle with Duncan. (The young Canmore grabs it from her during his attack upon her.)
Demona calls Bronx "my pet"; I looked up your remarks on gargoyle beasts in the archives and found that gargoyles don't see gargoyle beasts as pets, but as equals. Maybe another sign that Demona thinks far more like a human than she'd admit (or than it would be safe to tell her)?
I like the touch of the various new kings (like Macbeth and Lulach) being hailed as "High King of Scotland" - the "high king" part conveys all the more a sense of Scotland as a collection of recently-united chiefdoms (which it would have been at the time in actual history).
We tried to get a feeling for the actual history into the piece.
Rewatched "Enter Macbeth" today.
I can't help womdering what must be going through Hudson's head as he watches a Donald Duck cartoon, thoughtfully stroking his beard. The spectacle of a duck grown to human size, wearing clothes and speaking (kind of) could be an even bigger argument for not believing everything you see on television than the revelation of the Pack's true nature.
U remember in your ramble on "Enter Macbeth", your daughter spotted what looked like the Mona Lisa in Macbeth's mansion. This time around, I noticed a portrait of a man apparently in 18th century attire, who reminded me of portraits I'd seen of Bonnie Prince Charlie.
The doors to Macbeth get it both coming and going; they first get broken down when Bronx escapes, and when he returns with Goliath, they demolish a second pair of doors. (Of course, it becomes academic after the whole mansion gets burned down.)
Lexington talks about getting the clock working again; I wonder if he ever succeeded before the Canmores blew the place up.
1. Donald is a mystery to us all... ;)
2. I think Macbeth owned a lot of expensive art.
3. Yeah, so much destruction.
4. He never did.
I have some questions about Macbeth and his family:
1)Is Macbeth religious? I imagine he was a Catholic back in the eleventh century, but in the present day, is he lapsed or what?
2)How much does Mac know of what happened to his family after his "death"? I suppose he knows that Luach and Bodhe died in battle, but does he know that Grouch commited suicide?
3)If yes, did that color his suicidal behavior in the present day?
1. I'd have to do a bit of research about the church in the Eleventh Century. Macbeth did, if I'm recalling correctly, visit the Pope.
1a. Probably "what".
2. All of it.
3. That's for the audience to interpret.
1. Between 1020 and 1032, what was Macbeth's job or title? He wasn't expected to become either King of Scotland or High Steward of Moray, so what was he doing (or being trained to do) during that time?
1b. Who did he directly answer to? Who had direct control/power over him? Gillecomgain, Duncan, Maol Chalvim...?
2. What was Macbeth's in-universe relationship with his cousin Thorfinn like?
3. You've said, when asked about his religion, that Mac's omnireligious currently. Do his beliefs lean towards any religion in particular? Like Christianity, Buddhism, etc? If so, which one?
4. Does Macbeth know the details about Gruoch's death? How she died, when, etc?
Thank you. :)
1b. Whomever was king at the time.
2. No spoilers.
3. Probably still Christianity, with Pagan overtones.
1. You said that Demona would have 4 or 5 great loves total. Does that number include the one-sided romantic relationships she's been in? Like the Paris romance with Macbeth and her romance with Thailog, in which only one partner genuinely loved the other.
2. You said that Demona's clan, between 1040 and 1057, often slept at Castle Moray but never all at once. What was the reason for that? Was Demona's distrust of humans a factor?
2b. What was Demona's primary residence during that time?
3. When Demona is human during the day, does she experience any psychological changes due to her being fully human? The human hormones, instincts, etc... do they affect her perceptions/interests/attractions in any way?
4. Between 1040 and 1057, did Demona have anyone other than Macbeth, human or gargoyle, that she was friends with? Was there anyone as close or closer to her than him?
Thank you. :)
1. I don't think I said that. Can you give me a reference? I definitely wouldn't count what we've seen of either Macbeth or Thailog in Paris.
2b. Castle Moray.
3. Not that she'd acknowledge.
4. No spoilers.
1. As of the end of the SLG comics, do either Macbeth or Demona know about what they did during the weeks that they were controlled by the Weird Sisters? Do they know about their actions in High Noon, how they were forced to attack the innocent people (inc Katharine, Mac's only remaining relative, and Demona's children) on Avalon, etc?
If not, what do they think happened to them between their fight in New York and waking up in Paris?
If either does know, how do they feel about the Weird Sisters as a result?
2. Do Macbeth and Demona share the "anguish" mentioned by the Weird Sisters in CoS4 the same way they share physical pain? For example, on their wedding night in Paris, could Demona feel Macbeth's emotional pain as if it were her own?
If not, how does that part of their link work?
3. Is the shared pleasure part of Demona and Macbeth's link physical, emotional, or both?
Thank you. :)
1. Largely, they do not.
1a. It's perplexing.
1b. I doubt either of them are terribly fond of the Weird Sisters in any case.
2. Emotional pain? That would require enough selflessness to acknowledge that anyone else has emotional pain.
2a. You're assuming that anguish isn't physical?
3. Have we established shared pleasure?
In Enter MacBeth, MacBeth refers to Demona as the Gargoyles' queen. But wouldn't she or even someone of her clan from the past have told him a bit about Gargoyles and their clans and that they didn't have kings or queens? Or did she leave him to believe she was their queen?
I think you're taking his statement too literally. He saw her as the leader of the gargoyles, which she was during the key moment of his natural life. He views leaders in terms of kings and queens, so used that language. (Also as a chess metaphor, I seem to recall.) But he wasn't speaking or thinking about her this way literally.
Hello! I am a huge fan of your work. I was wondering, what would have happened if someone were to travel back in time, and keep Macbeth from saving Duncan from falling off the cliff in City of Stone Part Three?
In the Gargoyle's Universe that isn't possible. It happened, so it happened. We had very strict rules of time travel.
I remember your mentioning that in the proposed "Weird Macbeth" story, you'd cast Goliath as Macduff. It recently occurred to me that that would fit the "none of woman born" element (as with Demona earlier) - if in a different manner than the Macduff of the original play.
I don't know if that was one of the reasons you'd cast Goliath for that role, but I thought I'd mention it.
It's all in there.
Since Demona is still around as of the Gargoyles 2198 spinoff, that means MacBeth is still around as well. I know you won't discuss any actual plans for the character (SPOILERS!), but can you tell us if you had specific plans for him? Or did the outline for 2198 not get that far?
I have plans for everyone and everything.
1)When Macbeth first fought the Manhattan Clan, did he know they were members of Demona's original clan? And that Goliath was her former mate?
2)As of Phoenix, how much does Mac know of Demona's past before they first met? Does he know about the Wyvern Massacre and the role she played?
3)During the 17 golden years of Mac's kingdom, did he and Demona ever discuss her past? And if yes, how honest was she?
1. He knew the former, not necessarily the latter.
2. I assume you mean as of the END (i.e. the present day 1997 ending) of Phoenix. If so, he knows about the massacre. He's heard HER version of the role she played. I doubt she'd have copped to the entire truth.
3a. She was completely honest to her thinking. Emotionally honest. She just left out a few details.
Hi Greg! It`s me again, Austrias biggest Gargoyles and Rain of the ghosts fan! I`m still hoping for more Comics and/or a continuation of the series.
I am deeply fascinated with the subplot about Demona and Macbeth. They are by far my favorites.
There is one thing I don`t understand. According to Gargoyles Timeline Gruoch was about 27-28 when she had to marry Gilcomghain. Judging by medieval standards she was a very old maid. Why wasn`t she married at "the right age" like 15 or so as it was the custom for a gentle woman?
Why didn`t Macbeth and Gruoch marry years before? They grew up in the same castle, were fond of each other, Macbeth was evidently wealthy and of noble birth so why did`t they just get engaged around the age of 18-22 or so when they were of age? What was the problem?
Best wishes for your current projects! Can`t wait to see "Masque of Bones" (P.S. Any news about its publication yet?)
Historically, what happened, happened. We were only able to guess at the reasons.
So, in universe, Macbeth was without a father and had his inheritance ripped away. (So he was no longer wealthy, and he was virtually homeless.) That gave Gruoch's father pause about allowing Gruoch & Macbeth to marry. Gruoch wouldn't marry anyone else, until Macbeth was convinced by Bodhe to reject her.
And they didn't grow up in the same castle. Bodhe and Gruoch were VISITING the night Findlaech was killed. And that was the first time Macbeth and Gruoch met. They fell in love then and thereafter, but by that time Macbeth was S.O.L.
As for Masque of Bones, I haven't written it yet, because I've been writing World of Warcraft: Traveler novels for Blizzard and Scholastic.
I estimate Macbeth is, or at least was, a fan of theater given that he knew Shakespeare well, liked the Macbeth play, and borrows his aliases from it.
1. What are some other plays he was particularly fond of? Of any genre or time period. The idea of Macbeth attending Broadway musicals makes me smile.
2. Did he ever try his hand at acting or play-writing? Especially in the more modern times, the stage seems like the last vestige for an immortal to physically revisit some of those olden days. Can't say if it would be nostalgic or not for him though.
1. I'll leave that to your imagination.
2. I think so.
Hi Greg. Hope you're well. I'm working through my to-read pile, but I have both Rain of Ghost novels on my desk waiting. I'm glad you decided to put books out. Xanatos, Macbeth, & Puck/Owen are my favorite characters from any medium, and I recently found out my dad loves the Star Wars Rebels series. He never watches cartoons. I haven't seen it yet, but he said he enjoys it because the characters were written really well. I wasn't surprised to hear that.
Had some more domestic, trivia-type question regarding Macbeth during his retirement from the world around 2198 & earlier (pre-Invasion). Couldn't find anything in the Archives.
1. How is Macbeth occupying his time by this point? Activities, interests, etc. I'm very interested in this sort of thing because I feel it adds dimensions to characters.
2. Secondly, was there something specific that caused him to want to withdraw from the world?
3. What was it, if you're willing to share?
Respect & Appreciation,
1. No spoilers.
2. No spoilers.
3. No spoilers.
1) The spell the Weird Sisters cast on Demona and Macbeth ensures that the two of them are unaging and immortal, only able to be killed by one another. However, in "The Mirror", Demona expresses her wish to no longer turn to stone during the day, stating it makes her "vulnerable".
If Demona were to be shattered by someone other than Macbeth when stone during the day, would it bypass the Weird Sister's enchantment and kill both her and Macbeth permanently, or would the enchantment be powerful enough to simply piece her back together?
1. Vulnerable to Macbeth, at least. The rest of your question is hypothetical and moot.
Hello, Mr. Weisman. Back again.
Something that bugged me a little when I was watching "High Noon" and "The Price"; in both episodes, Goliath wonders how Macbeth could have escaped from the Weird Sisters (of course, Macbeth didn't actually escape, but that's neither here nor there with regards to my point).
Anyway, my question is this: did it never occur to Goliath that the Weird Sisters might have just let Macbeth go? After all, he doesn't really know anything about the Sisters at this point; they're almost entirely an unknown quantity. Did he think that they'd keep Macbeth and Demona prisoner indefinitely (that isn't rhetorical; I really do want to know)?
Thank you for your time, sir. Have a nice day.
I don't know about indefinitely, but the Sisters didn't take them casually, hence Goliath's response.
Gargoyles is a great show. Now that my praise is out of the way, I'm moving onto the question.
I watched the version of City of Stone with your commentary (which was very amusing) but there was one part which stood out to me. In the beginning of Part 4, we see Demona of the eleventh century meet up with Macbeth. You (or one of the other commenters) acknowledged that Demona was, and I quote, "a bit in love with Macbeth". It makes sense why she would feel this way, seeing that Macbeth was a close ally of hers.
Was this really true, or were these possible feelings of hers frivolous?
Um... all of the above?
Mostly, I prefer to leave that to every viewer's interpretation.
At the Blue Mug Convergence 2014 Panel, you have stated that Mac and Demona had lots of sex while they were engaged. Didn't you previously state that "Dominique" had presented herself as a good catholic french girl, presumably to avoid having sex with him?
One of the two was a mistake, you changed your mind, or what?
(By the way, I must admit that, if you did change your mind, I liked the original version more.)
All things are true. Few things are accurate.
Or put another way, don't take a Blue Mug TOO seriously.
I think the original answer is better too.
Why does Demona and MacBeth's pact make it where they can only die by each other's hand's?
I understand that neither can die while the other lives, but wouldn't that just mean that they would both have to be killed at the same time? And if the one killing the other isn't physically hurt by the same action why does that supersede the "when one lives, both shall live" rule.
Also, what happens if they're decapitated or if Demona had been destroyed during the day when she still turned to stone?
The pact is what the Weird Sisters declared it was. That was one of their conditions. They could have chosen a different condition, but they didn't.
The "when one lives, both shall live" condition means specifically that no one else can kill them. Because as long as one of them is alive, the curse will drag the "dead" one back into life, as you saw in multiple episodes.
And if Demona kills Macbeth or vice versa, the other is hurt - in fact killed by the action. So it supersedes the other rule because that's what the Witches declared.
As for the what happens if question, it's moot. Because it's a hypothetical question that hasn't/didn't/pretty much won't ever occur, because Luna is the Weird Sister of fate and knows.
Would Macbeth or Demona have to be in complete control to kill one another? I.E. if one of them were brainwashed or possessed, would it still work?
I guess so.
In the Gargoyles universe weve head about Macbeth ad nausium...but close to nothing about Lady Macbeth, who, in my opionion (as at least in the begining of Shakespear's play) was FAR more interesting.
In your view, was she a witch?
I'm leaving the term "witch" up to your own interpitation, whatever that may be, and a simple "yes or no" will suffice.
You saw Lady Macbeth on the show. Gruoch, remember?
1. In 'Double Jeopardy' Lexinton and Broadway view the tapes of Severius, detailing the creation of Thailog. (I'm being a bit specific in case some details have slipped your mind over the years) Anyway, Severious artfically aged Thailog to be the age of Goliath, but how did Severious know Goliaths age or did he just estimate?
2. Also in that tape, Severious mentioned how he managed to counter the 'slow aging process'. Goliath would later explain to Elsa that gargolyes age at 1/2 of humans, so once again, how did Severious know that?
3. If Thailog had been aged differently, say to the age of the Trio or Hudson, would that have affected his mind by much?
4. In Vows, Thailog and Macbeth meet for the first time and I do love Macbeths reaction. 'Who the blazes are you?!'. Did Macbeth react like that because he was put off by Thailog's resemblance to Golaith?
5. In that same scene, Thailog slips Macbeth a gun and allows him to escape. So I'm assuming that Macbeth was not entirely sure of Thailog's intentions, other than that it looked like he was double crossing Demona, but it has me thinking. Does Macbeth count Thailog as an alley, enemy, or just neutral?
1. He estimated, I suppose. But I also think it's possible that he had that information from Xanatos, who may have gotten in the past through Demona.
2. I don't remember this. Are you sure you heard that right? Because Thailog from this point on ages at a normal rate.
3. Too hypothetical to answer.
4. He was reacting to that, yes.
5. I think by the time Macbeth and Goliath were done comparing notes, Macbeth would regard Thailog at best as someone to be very wary of.
Who rebuilt macbeths home after it was destroyed in enter Macbeth ?
You mean what contractor did he use?
I just wanted to write and just give you some thanks for some of the great shows you have helped create, Greg.
Young Justice I enjoyed thoroughly, though I am more a fan of the first season than the second; I like fewer characters and more characterization as opposed to detailed plots just as a personal preference. I will also say I was not a fan of how Wally West was handled but I am sure you have heard your share of them. I will just say that the Wally of the comics and the Wally of Young Justice seemed to be entirely different characters which seemed a shame to me, given all that could have been done with him. He had such a rich comic book history that I really do not understand why more was not done with it but that is your creative decision. Just not my cup of tea.
I adored your version of Dick Grayson however. He was competent without being overly skilled; he suffered under pressure but learned from what he was exposed to. His relationship with Wally in Season 1 was one of my all time favorites. Thanks for the great run!
Secondly, I could not write you without mentioning Gargoyles. I mean, wow. I think I was in fifth or sixth grade when I first caught it on the air. I just remember being deeply enthralled with it. I thought Elisa was an awesome character, as I did not see a whole lot of strong female leads back then and she was definitely that. I also adored the interesting family background you gave her. So often, characters fall into the stereotypical white, black, etc and she brilliantly avoided those.
I also firmly owe you thanks for igniting my interest in Shakespeare. I remember that I saw "City of Stone" when we were having to pick plays and such to read/analyze for school and after seeing that awesome four parter, I went right to my English teacher and asked if I could read MacBeth. It is still my favorite of the Bard's works.
The characterization of Demona was incredible. Most villains are so one dimensional but all the villains of Gargoyles were so well fleshed out. I am a creative writer myself and working on my first work to aim towards publication and I definitely count Gargoyles among my top inspiration for how to do characterization. To this day, I will tell people if they want to see a well fleshed out villain, go watch Demona from Gargoyles. I honestly would rank her about equal to Gollum from "Lord of the Rings." She can be diabolical, sneaky, cruel and yet you can totally see why she would have turned out that way and I can switch very easily from feeling such anger at her to feeling overwhelming pity. Bravo, my good Sir!
Thanks. Always nice to have the work thoughtfully appreciated.
I just watched Enter Macbeth and I have a question about why he went to Xanatos with his offer. How did Macbeth know that there were gargoyles living modern Castle Wyvern in the first place?
He had seen them.
In 2198 are the Wyrd Sisters still watching Demona and Macbeth?
Do you mean still in cooperation with the Archmage? No.
You said that Macbeth found the play bearing his name to be rather amusing in how it got most about him wrong. What do you think his view on the Highlander film would have been?
I think he would have found the notion of Sean Connery playing an Egyptian Spaniard, while Christopher Lambert played a Scottish Highlander, hilarious.
I wrote this up on my blog last Christmas (a bit of a gift to myself there) and thought I'd share it here.
For every hero, or group of heroes, there must be villains. The villains test the hero, the villains make the hero. In the realm of superhero lore, Batman and Spider-Man have been cited as having the greatest rogues' galleries in comics. And I do not disagree. Sadly, other heroes or teams seem to come up lacking. Sure they may have one or two great villains, but the rest seem to be meh. The FF have Dr. Doom and Galactus, sure. The X-Men have Magneto and the Sentinels, Green Lantern has Sinestro, but the rest of their rogues galleries have always seemed, at least to me, to be okay at best. I know some will contest this opinion, but it's my opinion and as far as this blog goes, that's the one you're stuck with. Personally, I always thought the Third Great Rogues' Gallery belonged to "Gargoyles." So, let's honor them.
First of all, here's who didn't make the list and why:
Wolf - Nothing against Wolf, he's fun. He's a big dumb thug, but he's fun. But, as of yet, I haven't found him to be very interesting on his own. And I always thought his teammates were more interesting and fun to watch.
Tony Dracon - I like him a lot more than a lot of other "Gargoyles" fans seem to. He's usually fun, but he didn't quite have enough to make this list.
Oberon - I never thought of him as a villain, and I still don't. Even when he was trying to kidnap Alex. Did I agree with him? Not at all, but I don't think he was in the "legal" wrong either.
Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Matrix, Yama, and Fang - If you don't know why, shame on you.
Second of all, here's who I hope to add to the list some time:
Queen Mab - Come on Disney, let Greg do it!
Morgana le Fay - Ditto.
With that out of the way, let's dive into list.
20. Duval and Peredur fab Ragnal
At present, we've seen too little of these two to know much about them. But what we have seen has been enough to give us an intriguing mystery, especially if you've been following ASK GREG for the past fourteen years. They are the guiding hands of the Illuminati Society, which was created a century after the Fall of Camelot, by Sir Percival to "set things right." Which of these two men is Sir Percival? Well, I have my theories on that. Peredur fab Ragnal is the Welsh name for Percival, and Duval sounds like a modern alias for Percival as well. In fact, for years Greg Weisman told us that Percival was Duval, and then when the comic comes out we get Peredur. Following that, he said nothing changed from his original plan? So, who is Sir Percival, and what's the deal with the other guy? Again, I have my theories.
But I imagine that should new material ever come our way, one or both of these guys will shoot up on this list.
I also enjoy the idea of Duval being cybernetic, but I think he needs a bit of a re-design. Especially in what he wears.
19. The Banshee/Molly
The Banshee may have only been in one episode (with a cameo appearance in another), but damn did she leave an impression. Everything about this character was executed flawlessly. The character model, the animation, the voice, the effects! I loved how ghoulish she appeared, you could see the background through her.
It also helps that "The Hound of Ulster" is one of the best World Tour episodes. The script is tight, the animation is gorgeous, and a lot of the character actions are subtle and over the top when they need to be. Look at Molly's brief, brief exchange with Rory's father for the subtly, which contrasts the wonderful over the top performance as the Banshee.
This guy was a jerk. I mean, really. A paranoid tyrant who thought the world was out to get him. Well, not the world so much as his cousin, Macbeth. I suppose I can understand seeing Macbeth as a threat to the throne, but he just seemed to go out of his way to make Macbeth miserable. He reveled in it. When he died, we were all happy to see him bite it.
Batman has Joe Chill, and Spider-Man has the Burglar. Goliath has this Viking chieftain who massacred his clan. Well, Hakon may not have acted alone, but with the swing of his mace, the series really began. Like his descendant, Wolf, he's pretty one-note. But he plays that note masterfully.
But perhaps the better story isn't even the one where he shattered the clan, but the one where his vengeful spirit attempted to drive Goliath insane. That episode was the perfect send off for Hakon, even more so than falling off a cliff to his death. His angry, vengeful spirit was trapped alone at the bottom of a cavern for all of eternity without anyone or anything to hate. At least that's where I think he should have stayed. Hakon might have ranked higher if he didn't come back one last time in an episode that I thought was one of the show's only misfires. But hey, sixty-five episodes, eighteen comics, and only one misfire. You're still golden.
Now this guy is fun. I love his design, both as a gargoyle and as a robot. I love his Doc Ock-esque tentacles, and I loved Xander Berkeley in the role. Coldsteel is a manipulative jerk, and it's fun to watch him work. His favorite victim is usually Coldstone, and his goal remains unchanging… possess Coldfire. In a nutshell, he's a creepy stalker.
What's also fun is that he's had three voice actors, and not because Berkeley was unavailable. When he controlled Coldstone's body, he was played by Michael Dorn. When he possessed Brooklyn, he was voiced by Jeff Bennett. And they both did it without talking like their regular characters. Watch "Possession" again and listen to "Brooklyn" speak. It's obvious who is in the driver's seat.
I also enjoyed his appearance in the comics, working for Xanatos to distract our heroes from the theft of the Stone of Destiny. Where will he go from here? I'm not sure. I tend to think he works better when he's teaming up with other villains than acting on his own. Well, he did see potential in the Coyote robot, so maybe that's not over; one could see him working with Thailog too; perhaps even re-team with his rookery sister, Demona… they did get along quite well in "High Noon."
15. Constantine III
What can I say about this guy? He follows a long tradition of Disney tyrants, and is just as fun to watch as any of them. Sometimes I think the tenth and eleventh century villains are even more vicious than the modern day villains, and Contantine sums that up.
When we first meet this guy, he uses Finella, the woman who loves him, to lure King Kenneth (who is in love with her) out just so he can murder him in cold blood and take his crown. Then he casts her aside so he can marry Princess Katharine and better secure his claim to the throne. And he tries to keep in control with barely veiled threats against her charges. Harsh.
But even better than that is his return in the "Gargoyles" comic book where he's hunting down and murdering every gargoyle clan he can find, and trying to find Katharine and her friends. By now, he's been in power for two years and rules with an iron fist… which leads to a civil war. This guy is such a jerk that he even kills the messenger that the army of the Three Brothers sends. You never kill the messenger.
And then there was his rather creepy relationship with his new protégé, Gillecomgain, which led to the two inspiring each other in a very twisted ways. Constantine is inspired by Gillecomgain's scars to wear them as war paint in battle, and in turn, Constantine inspires Gillecomgain to become the Hunter. As if Gillecomgain needed any more inspiration. Which brings me to…
Let's face it, even as a kid, Gillecomgain had issues. Obviously there was a lot of darkness instilled in him by his father, who himself had some very understandable issues also. What did these issues lead to? One rogue gargoyle was going through their barn, and Gillecomgain pointed a pitchfork into the shadows to scare a thief only to get slashed across the face. What did THAT lead to? Arguably the events of the entire series.
Gillecomgain's life didn't get better. Constantine III took an interest in him which set him on the path of becoming a masked political assassin, not to mention his continued hunt for the demon that scarred him. Like dominos, this led to events that made Macbeth the man he is today, the Canmore clan what they became, and set the tone for centuries of hatred and pain. And all because of one scratch in a barn.
As a character himself, Gillecomgain stacks up well. There is a moment after his arranged marriage to Gruoch, who obviously doesn't love him, where you almost wonder if you should feel bad for a man whose wife obviously despises him. Then he crushes her rose underfoot. What does this mean? Here's a hint, Luach might not have been Macbeth's son. Powerful stuff.
13. Falstaff/John Oldcastle
Okay, this guy is fun. Him and his gang of LARPers gone bad. They appeared only in the final two issues of "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" but they made an impression. I loved the buildup Falstaff received. We see him take a young Harry Monmouth (who would grow up to become Dingo) under his wing. Train him to be a thief, and take pity on the poor boy after his mother ran out on him. Only for that shocker of a final page where we see Oldcastle with his hands wrapped around the throat of her already dead body.
I really love his gang. At first glance, they seem super human, but are in fact incredibly skilled. And I love that Oldcastle, maybe the world's greatest thief, named himself after Shakespeare's king of thieves. He looked the part, and just seemed to take so much joy in everything he did, and that helped make it a joy to watch him do it.
I hope we get more at some point, because I want to know more about him. Why did he murder Dingo's mom? And when did the Illuminati recruit him? Does he have any other responsibilities for the Society other than guarding their giant vault? Well, until next time, and I believe there will be a next time.
Of all the new characters introduced in the comic books, the most intriguing has to be Shari. Is she Thailog's new executive assistant, or does she own him? So far it seems to be a little bit of both. But I'm sure it's far more one than the other.
I love the narrative device of her storytelling, and I wonder where her knowledge comes from. Sure, she's a very high member of the Illuminati Society, but there are some things she just shouldn't know. And yet, she does. Like I said, she's intriguing. Now, I have my theories on who she really is, in fact I think it's so obvious, I almost wonder what the point of not revealing it was, aside from the fact that I can't see a place in the stories released to do it.
And as a final bit of trivia, Shari's look and basic design was inspired by stage actress and long time "Gargoyles" fan, Zehra Fazal. I've seen her perform on stage, and she is brilliant. She definitely deserved to be immortalized in "Gargoyles" canon in such a way.
11. The Archmage
Who would have thunk it? A one-shot villain if "Gargoyles" ever had one. You watch "Long Way to Morning" again, and you'd never think this guy would have become so important in the grand scheme of the series. Well, let's just say that David Warner kicks ass.
While I do write off his appearance in "Long Way to Morning" as 'obvious one shot villain,' he's still fun, even there. But I think what everybody remembers most is his turn as the villain in the "Avalon" triptych. I loved "Avalon Part Two." I thought the script was brilliant. I thought David Warner's dialogue with himself was tremendous. The entire endeavor was just wonderful.
Do I agree with the decision to kill him off? Absolutely. I don't think he would have had any staying power in the modern day material. The guy is a clichéd sorcerer, even if he's a very fun one. However, that doesn't mean I think the character is done entirely. There is plenty for him to do in a certain spin-off that takes place during the "Dark Ages." Or maybe even something to do if one were to TimeDance and have an encounter with him.
What can I say, I have a soft spot for this glorified toaster oven. At first glance he may seem like Ultron wearing half of Xanatos's skin, but the influence from Xanatos is evident. This robot has a sense of humor, sometimes even a perverse one. Granted it's not sentient or self-aware, but it almost seems close enough to fool you.
I love all the designs he goes through. They're all different, while at the same time reminding you of who you're looking at. But my favorite will always be the first one. I loved the look, I loved his perception-warping weapon the most. I wish he'd used it more often.
What's next for this character? Well, Greg has kept extremely tight-lipped. We know more upgrades are on the horizon, but come "Gargoyles 2198" … well, let's just say I think I know what the Xanatos of "Future Tense" was actually foreshadowing.
9. Jackal and Hyena
The "Gargoyles Universe" is well known for their complex, complicated villains. But sometimes, it's nice to just cut loose. Enter the sociopathic Jackal; and his twin sister, the psychotic Hyena and we're in for a good time whenever they show up. These two will crack you up one moment and then make you sick the next.
The first time they appeared, they didn't seem THAT bad. Then, come their second appearance, you have Hyena nearly slicing a fan's face up, and smiling when she gets arrested. Following that, we have Hyena falling in love with a robot. And then, after that, the two volunteer to trade in their body parts for cybernetic implants. Frankly, it's rather sick.
Jackal almost seems normal when you compare him to Hyena. "Normal" being very relative, until we get to "Grief" where he becomes the avatar of Anubis, giving him power over life and death, and what does he do? He decides he wants to end all life on Earth. Yeah….
I'm glad these two are close siblings, because they deserve each other. Still, whatever else they are, they're very fun bad guys. Hell, even a friend of mine named his gold colored Aztek after Hyena.
8. Anton Sevarius
Dr. Anton Sevarius earns points for being the creepiest villain we have encountered so far. He's even creepier than Jackal and Hyena! Sure, he's pretty much a hired gun, but the guy enjoys it. He revels in it. I can sum up Sevarius with one quote. After he was asked why he was doing this:
"For science, which as my associate Fang indicated, must ever move forward. Plus there's the money… and I do love the drama!"
This guy is only slightly more ethical than Dr. Mengele! And I also need to give a ton of credit to Tim Curry for really bringing this guy to life. Apparently, Brent Spiner was the first choice to voice Sevarius, but Curry got the role, and Spiner was cast as Puck. Thank god for those decisions.
Another moment that really stands out was when he was all over Angela in "Monsters." Does he have a sexual interest in her? I don't know, probably not. I think he just took pleasure in making her as uncomfortable as possible.
I think my other favorite Sevarius moment comes from "Double Jeopardy" where he thinks he's taking part in a Machiavellian scheme of Xanatos's and decides to act the part… very badly, I might add. So much fun, even when he makes you scream.
7. The Weird Sisters
Okay, let's get this out of the way. Silver haired Luna is the Sister of Fate; Raven haired Selene is the Sister of Vengeance; and Golden haired Phoebe is the Sister of Grace.
The Weird Sisters are, for the most part, a complete mystery. They have plans within plans that stretch through the centuries, after all what is time to them? They could even give Xanatos a run for his money. What is their agenda? Only they know. We've seen two thirds of the story, with Luna ascendant during "City of Stone" and Selene ascendant during "Avalon." But there is a missing piece, where does grace fall in their plans for Demona and Macbeth? Hopefully time will tell.
These three are great fun to watch. I love how they can be both nowhere and everywhere. And I love how they can and will take on different forms depending on who is looking at them at any given moment. Where do their loyalties lie? Well, it seems to be with Oberon, but I've long suspected there is something bigger at play with these three.
It would be easy to say they were plucked straight out of the Scottish Play, but in several folklores and mythologies, the Weird Sisters are present in some form. There is just something elemental and primeval about them. And that's part of what makes them a great element of the series.
Any woman who David Xanatos would marry would have to be cut from the same cloth he is, because anyone else would be beneath him. Fox is that woman. Hell, sometimes she gets the better of him, whether they're sparring in the dojo, or playing chess. And he doesn't resent this; it's just further proof that he's found the love of his life.
It's weird to watch her in "The Thrill of the Hunt" at times, because Wolf, Jackal, Hyena, and Dingo just seem so far beneath her, she almost seems out of place there. And yet, at the same time, the more we learn about her, the more it makes sense. When we meet Halcyon Renard, a huge piece of the puzzle is put into place. She was never a daddy's girl, in fact, quite the opposite. She was clearly motivated, for years, by just annoying her father. Maybe her mother too.
And I think it was just as much of a shock to her that she loved David. But I wonder what their relationship was like before her prison sentence? Obviously Xanatos made her a television star, but what else was going on there?
She was his lover and employee. And a trained mercenary, let's not forget that.
Like her husband, she grew and developed as the series progressed, and is every bit as interesting a character as he is. In fact, in an alternate universe, I wonder how the series would have played if Fox was in Xanatos's role from the get go.
Ah, the prodigal son… and he's a bastard. Literally.
I love this guy, he's just a hoot. Thailog is as powerful as Goliath, as brilliant and amoral as Xanatos, and as hammy and immoral as Sevarius. All at once. And it shows. In every single appearance, it shows. The guy is a walking Oedipus complex, what with his desire to prove his superiority to his fathers. I suppose one might say that he's already gotten the better of Sevarius, since he has the good doctor on his payroll. And while he outsmarted Xanatos once, I don't think he's done. Turning Nightstone Unlimited into a powerhouse to rival Xanatos Enterprises is obviously a means to this end. But what next?
I think my favorite thing about Thailog is that while he is a clone of Goliath, that's the last thing that comes to mind when I think about him. He's a fully developed character in his own right, and not simply Goliath's evil twin. On that note, I'm happy his coloring is different, because the last thing this show needs is an entire episode where the gargoyles try to figure out which one is the real Goliath.
And how can anyone not find that maniacal laugh of his to be anything but endearing?
4. John Castaway
John Castaway is a fascinating character, hell to crack the top five, he has to be. Castaway is a weak man, and at the heart of everything, a frightened child. Too weak to stand up to his brother and say "this is wrong" and too weak to admit he was wrong when he pulls the trigger and everything goes to Hell. I think the only thing that has changed is his support system.
Now that the gargoyles have been revealed to the world, Castaway represents a political movement who are moving against them. And it's rather frightening. Not for being a group of hooded thugs, they are not, but for being like a cross between the neighborhood watch, and a support group. Oh, there is a violent wing of the Quarrymen, we know that. But with Castaway's shrewdness, and the Illuminati's backing, I don't think he would do something stupid like fire anti-aircraft cannons in Manhattan, or hijack a train. No… because that would make Castaway much less difficult to defeat than he is. And even then, who says that happens? The Quarrymen are destined to be a problem for at least the next two hundred years, and like the Hunters before them, his descendents will lead the organization.
Keep in mind, we can all trace this back to a scratch in a barn in the tenth century.
Well, where do I start? Well, I suppose I will start by saying that I almost feel bad for putting him on this list at all. He has a strong sense of honor, if skewed. He's worked against our protagonists and with them. But, in the end I think the only side he's on is his own. While he is more of an ally now, that doesn't mean he hasn't been part of the problem before and won't be part of the problem again.
His story is terrific. Rather than follow the Scottish Play, the story we got was a loose adaptation of the true history of Macbeth and his reign over Scotland. Yes, we had Demona and gargoyles, and the Weird Sisters and sorcery, but we also had a history lesson unfolding, even if we didn't know it at the time. And it's terrific. To this day, it's my favorite tale in the entire mythos.
When we first meet him, the centuries have certainly taken their toll. He is not above attacking the gargoyles, taking hostages, and committing grand theft. And yet, we never once think of him as evil, despite doing some pretty unethical and amoral things. That changes with "City of Stone" when we learn his story and feel sorry for him. But at the same time, I think the perception among many fans has swung around too far. Yes, we understand him more now. But that wasn't his redemption. Far from it.
I think the tail end of "Sanctuary" and "Pendragon" is where the change begins, and I stress this, begins. In the former, he learned that he is still capable of love. In the latter, while some didn't quite get why he competed so violently against King Arthur for Excalibur, well, it always made sense to me. This is a man who has suffered so much, who viewed his existence as sad and endless, that he was looking for something to give it meaning and maybe justify every terrible thing that has ever happened to him. Being the new Once and Future King would serve that purpose, wouldn't it? Well, it doesn't quite work out for him, but over the course of the series we have seen this man go from suicidal renegade to a man who doesn't think life is completely worth living, and now seeks purpose in his existence. Did he look like a fool clutching that broken sword? Well, he was a broken man. And once you hit rock bottom, the healing can begin.
2. David Xanatos
He was designed to be a heroic character, and he was cast as the villain of the piece. That, right there, is what makes this character so brilliant. He has so many positive qualities, so many admirable traits. He's smart, he's cool, he's suave, he's practical, he knows his priorities, he doesn't sweat the small stuff, he doesn't hold a grudge; the titled heroes have more personality flaws than he does! But he is also incredibly ruthless, and while he's not evil, he is incredibly amoral. He seems to be the walking personification of Frederick Nietzsche's ubermensch when one stops to think about it. And he is awesome.
I am actually struggling here, what more can be said about David Xanatos that hasn't already been said? He's designed many tropes all by himself. There was never a villain like him in animation before, and even after he's left, there still has never been anyone quite like him. He doesn't surround himself with dimwitted henchmen and beat them up and scream when they fail. No, quite the opposite, he is always surrounded by incredibly competent people. His assistant and majordomo, Owen Burnett comes to mind. And he so rarely loses. In sixty-five episodes, and eighteen comics, I can count the number of actual losses on one hand. Aside from that, he always comes out on top. Always. But when he doesn't, he doesn't throw a fit and scream, he shrugs it off and moves on to the next plan. There are always contingencies. This guy is the coolest guy in the series.
His character arc throughout the series is brilliant. I love his rivalry with Goliath, and I love how he doesn't hate or even dislike Goliath. He likes Goliath a lot, admires him, and regards him with what I can best call a mix of interest and benign amusement. That's far more interesting than Megatron's hatred for Optimus Prime. And I really love how Goliath would often use the word "evil" to describe Xanatos. Sure, Xanatos has done some evil things, but Goliath's view of him for the longest time was very two-dimensional. It almost represents how most audiences, especially in animation, were trained to view the villain. No, Xanatos wasn't a Dark Lord, or a diabolical evil. He was simply a trickster. A human trickster.
While Xanatos and Goliath seem to have made some form of peace, that still didn't make Xanatos one of the good guys! I love that! In a way, he's still the enemy, and now the gargoyles are living with him, and they know it! He still has plans and schemes, and while he likes the gargoyles and helps them out, that doesn't stop him from manipulating them to his own ends, or even working against them. And best of all, as far as Xanatos is concerned: it's nothing personal.
I also have to give a ton of credit to the performance of Jonathan Frakes. He made Xanatos sound so sophisticated, fun, and erudite.
David Xanatos, he should run a seminar on villainy. Often imitated, never duplicated.
Demona is the clear number one on this list, for reasons both grounded and very esoteric at the same time. At the most minimal of glances, she seems very typical. We've seen genocidal human haters before. But scratch the surface, even a little, and we get the deepest creation of not only the series, but one of the deepest creations in the realm of fiction. I'm going to say this now, and roll your eyes all you want, but Demona would not be the slightest bit out of place in Russian literature. Or William Shakespeare's for that matter. I love this character.
Let's start with the surface elements first. She's got a terrific character design, and was so very well animated. Marina Sirtis deserves a tremendous amount of credit for the work she did bringing her to life. She embodied that character so completely that I never want to hear anyone else ever voice Demona on any animated project. No one can do it. Period. Hearing Marina Sirtis voice Demona was just as much of a revelation as hearing Mark Hamill's Joker. And I will stand by that statement even under threat of torture. She is also just such a badass! An intimidating warrior, an immortal, a sorceress, and she transforms into a human during the day! Hell, in both forms, she's pretty hot.
Now, for the esoteric. She has a guilt complex that makes Peter Parker's look tame by comparison, but she spreads it around to everyone else rather than internalize it. And considering how much she has to feel guilty over, this makes her arguably the most dangerous character in the series. She cannot accept her own culpability for the terrible things that happened to her, and for all intents and purposes, murdering her clan. She may not have swung the mace, but her ambition, her bigotry, and her cowardice put them in front of it.
Her favorite scapegoats are humanity as a whole, who make an easy and convenient target for her to project her guilt and self-loathing on. Now, does she have a point? Yes. Let's face it, humans can be bastards. We've done terrible things as a species. But, just as you cannot blame every Muslim for the attacks on September 11th, or every German for the Holocaust, Demona is wrong to blame every human for the terrible actions of a few. And at the end of the day, she was either directly or indirectly responsible for those actions. She betrayed her clan, and caused the massacre; she created the Hunter, and betrayed Macbeth. Demona created her own pain, and she intends to wipe out every man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth just to justify every damned stupid choice she ever made.
Despite all of that, she is an eternally conflicted character. She is not a one-dimensional cut-out. Deep inside, she knows she's wrong, she knows what she did. But she cannot and will not acknowledge that. And that's what makes her hatred for Elisa Maza so interesting. The one human she hates most is the one that has been a true friend to the gargoyles, because Elisa is living proof of just how wrong Demona really is. And the fact that Elisa and Goliath are now in love doesn't help considering Demona's lingering feelings of jealousy.
Of course, there is Demona's biological daughter, Angela. She is probably the one person Demona cares about in the world. My single biggest regret about the cancelation of the comic book is that we didn't get to see the two of them interact again. I am beyond curious to see where this goes. But one thing I am confident of, it's not heading towards a hysterically easy redemption. Nope, if we take the plan for the "Gargoyles 2198" spin-off seriously, and I most certainly do, Demona is still plotting against humanity long after Angela has died. Is it sad? Yes. Is it tragic? Yes. Is it Demona? Absolutely.
I also love how she is a walking mess of contradictions. Her belief system is based so much on lies she tells herself, that she will rationalize anything she can to fit her world view. Why? Because the alternative is admitting she is wrong, and right now, she will not do that. Cannot do that. Sadly for both her and Angela, I see tragedy in their future.
Demona's through line is one of the main reasons I am so desperate for "Gargoyles 2198" to be produced. I want to see how her story ends, and if it's going to end anywhere, it's in that spinoff. This is a story I am dying to see, and if Disney never produces it, well… one way or another I intend to find out what happens to her. What her ultimate fate is going to be. We know she'll have an epiphany of some kind. How does it happen? Why does it happen? What's the fallout? How does her story end?
Demona is an endlessly fascinating character. We've never seen anything like her in the realm of western animation before her debut, and I don't think she's been replicated since. Why? I don't know. But lightning has been caught in a bottle, and I am rather happy that no one has attempted to imitate this unique and perfectly conceived character but tragically flawed person.
What? No love for Bruno?
Some questions about Macbeth and Shakespeare...
1)Did Macbeth have a particular reason to choose the names Lennox and Macduff as his alias? I mean, why those and not, for example, Donalbain and Seyton?
2)You previously stated that Macbeth was mostly amused by the shakespearean version of his story. Is this true also regarding Shakespeare's portrayal of Gruoch?
3)A)What do you think is Macbeth's favourite shakespearean comedy?
3)B)And his favourite tragedy?
1. I seem to recall Michael, Brynne or Lydia having a clever reason for why Macbeth specifically chose those two, but I can no longer remember what it was.
2. Ultimately, it was so far removed from the truth, that all Macbeth could be was amused at the bad history (which he was already long-accustomed to) and marvel at the artistry and the truths revealed there even if they were not hi truths. As for Gruoch, he saw so little (really nothing) of his wife in the boy playing Lady Macbeth that he couldn't be too upset. It may have also helped that the name Gruoch was.never used in the play.
3a&b. I'll leave that for each fan to imagine.
What exactly did Demona's position as Macbeth's primary adviser entail? He said that he had planned for her to govern at his side... very, very strong words for a king. We know she maintained command of her clan, and she also seemed to have command of a number of his human troops but what was she doing during "peace time?" Was she advising him on strategic and diplomatic alliances? Tax policies? This was definitely much bigger than what Goliath's or Hudson's positions with Prince Malcolm were. When I hear "govern at my side" it makes me think that for all intents and purposes, even if not in name, she was the co-ruler of Scotland.
"Peace time" is a relative term. She helped him maintain his army and (if you will) his air force, along with other defenses. She advised him on military strategy, and as we saw, he was open to hear anyone give advice on anything. But her primary job description was basically Secretary of Defense.
She was not co-ruler of Scotland.
I was wondering, was Blade a possible inspiration for Macbeth's modern design?
Did Demona carefully think through her Operation Clean Slate plan? If the virus was meant to eliminate all human beings, wouldn't that kill Macbeth, as well? If so, that would mean that by her killing him she would be engineering her own death due to their magical link.
Greg Weisman says:
"Good question. Keep in mind that magic isn't an exact science. The Weird Sisters told Macbeth and Demona that 'When one lives both live.' Demona used the magic Praying Gargoyle statue to insure she would survive the fullfillment spell. So would Macbeth have survived? Probably. She knows about the mortality link. She would not want his death at her hands if that resulted in her own. Towards Macbeth, her impulse should not be murderous by necessity. And mindset has a real effect on magic results. However, Demona isn't the most stable and rational of characters. She certainly has murderous feelings toward Macbeth. And if their linking spell 'perceived' the death of all humanity as a successful attempt to kill Macbeth, then it might very well have killed her as well. Did she consider this? Maybe.
Maybe it was a risk she was willing, even eager to take. Maybe somewhere underneath it all, she's a bit suicidal. Could she die with the idea of leaving behind a human-free 'paradise' where her daughter could live in safety? Remember, Moses led the Israelites to the Promised Land, but he was not allowed to enter it himself. Maybe that's how Demona felt about it.
Then again, maybe not. Very provocative question."
[Response recorded in the Station 8 "Gargoyles" FAQ, Section VI.]
My first question didn't post for some reason, so here goes again:
1. Given that aside from that one stint in Florence, and NYC/Scotland, the place we see Demona show up the most in the series and comics is Paris. That, combined with her choosing a french name and identity made me wonder if Demona has some special affinity for Paris/France. Or am I just reading too much into it?
2. You've said that Demona is biologically the equivalent of a human 35, and at the beginning of the series Goliath was about 28 I think. Since in Awakenings the clan all thought Demona had been frozen in stone like them, didn't any of them notice that she maybe looked different, or older? (It's hard to tell with animation if she really did;)) I realize there was a lot going on, but didn't anyone notice anything...off about her? Or is Demona just one of those people that, magically protected from the effects of age/rough lifestyle, can pass for younger?
3. During the time of his reign and their alliance, did MacBeth ever find out that Demona is a sorceress? If so, what did he think about it? At the time, I would guess he might respect her ability to learn a...scholarly pursuit, maybe, but I can't imagine Grouch at least would be comfortable with it, especially as it seems her husband being suspected of sorcery was already a rumor.
Thanks so much for still taking the time to answer Gargoyles questions, since I'm sure Young Justice is taking up a lot of your time and attention lately :)
1. Perhaps. Maybe she liked the work they did with the guillotine.
2. One doesn't have to invoke magic to look largely unchanged between the ages of 28 and 35. Some folks just have the genes for it.
3. Demona was never much of a practicing sorceress in those days. She had a bit of training and dabbled. I'm sure Macbeth was aware of that.
I have a MacBeth question this time. You mentioned a while ago that MacBeth has worked as a stage actor in the past. I thought that was such an interesting tidbit about a guy we don't necessarily know a ton about. Was that you idea, and if so, what inspired it?
You also mentioned that you saw MacBeth as acting in a lot of George Bernard Shaw plays probably. Why is that? Shaw was pretty political - do you think that influenced MacBeth's decision to do those plays?
1a. It just felt right. Plus I like the idea of him collaborating with Shakespeare.
2. Yeah. It just felt like Shaw's work would appeal to Macbeth.
Are the gargoyles aware that the two owners of Nightstone Unlimited are Demona and Thailog? The Alexander Thailog name could be a giveaway, and did Macbeth tell them Demona's human name after the action died down in "Sanctuary?"
I don't think that Macbeth knew about Nightstone, and thus it never occurred to him that - once outed - Demona would continue to use her alias.
Something that I've always wondered about "Double Jeopardy"- when Xanatos and Owen are discussing who could have "abducted" Thailog, Xanatos explicitly lists a small number of enemies- and he uses that exact word- who could have pulled it off. Specifically, the three he names are Demona, Renard, and Macbeth. Now the first two are easy enough to understand- Demona is the enemy of all humanity and has a history with Xanatos personally, while Renard is his main business competitor- but so far as we've seen Xanatos and Macbeth have only met in person twice (once in "Enter Macbeth", when Mac was actually working for Xanatos, albeit for his own reasons, and once in "City of Stone" when Mac pretty much ignored Xanatos and focused all his efforts on Demona). So my question is- why does Xanatos consider Macbeth an enemy? Have they had an offscreen run-in that we never saw, presumably because it didn't concern the gargoyles, that would lead to this attitude, or is it just a case of Xanatos naturally being wary of someone with the resources and skills to pose a legitimate challenge to him? Or is there some other reason?
I think they've been at odds -- and he feels Macbeth has the resources. "Enemy" probably is too strong a word.
In 1050, when Macbeth visited the Pope in Rome, did Demona accompany him?
Story for another day.
I know you hear this a lot, but I wanted to start by saying that I've always loved Gargoyles; I was raised on it. It was one of the things that started my love for the fantasy genre, and it taught me by example how to write/appreciate stories with complex characters and well-thought stories. I also love TSSM and Young Justice, and started watching both after hearing you were working on it. ;) :) Thanks for all the hard work you've poured into your work over the years. :)
My question has to do with Demona and "Operation Clean Slate". (I hope I'm not repeating a question; I tried searching for it but couldn't find anything.) Anyways, I was wondering a couple of things:
a) if Demona knows about other sentient life outside of humans, gargoyles, and Oberon's children--like the New Olympians--would she care that she's probably killing all of them, too? (I'm not asking if she does know about them--I imagine you probably want to keep that to yourself. ;))
b) Would killing the entire human race count as Demona killing MacBeth? (To be honest, I've never fully understood whether they actually have to kill each other practically simultaneously, or whether just one killing the other would be enough. MacBeth seems to believe the latter, but if he's mistaken, then I'm assuming they would both survive.)
Thanks for your time! :)
a. I'll leave that to your interpretation of the character.
b. This has been covered. Check the archives.
Thanks for the kind words.
i have a serious question if Macbeth dies of a natural cause like a heart attack or something does that mean Deamona dies as well from it?
I'm not interested in these hypotheticals.
I just re watched City of Stone, and in part 4 MacBeth "dies" for the first time. His wife convinces him to leave Scotland, citing that his subjects would no longer accept him as King if they knew of his magical bond with Demona. My question is, who has to know that he died? The only people who saw him killed were his family and the Hunter...and who of MacBeth's subjects would believe the Hunter over the Royal Family? Granted, after long enough his people would notice him not aging, but during that war and with his family so vulnerable, it seems like a terrible time to fade into the wind.
Thank you so much for creating what I and many people consider the most intellegent and literally epic animated series ever, and for staying connected with your tireless fanbase.
By the time Macbeth and Gruoch could have/would have gotten to them, Bodhe and Luach would have announced Macbeth's death.
So I'm watching "City of Stone" again, one of my favorite storylines, and I'm wondering, how on earth could a young MacBeth not realize Gillecomgain was the Hunter who killed his father?
I mean, clearly they know each other, and the Hunter is wearing a mask that has markings the exact same shape of Gillecomgain's giant scars. Doesn't seem like the best disguise.
Asked and answered already. Check the archives.
While I'm going down memory lane, I wanted to tell you my first impression of Macbeth. I don't know if you intended to use skillful misdirection, but when Macbeth first came on the show, I just thought he was a regular, albeit really athletic, guy whose shtick was call himself "Macbeth." Like how Batman villain Maxie Zeus dresses up like Zeus or the Mad Hatter who models himself on an Alice in Wonderland character. When Brooklyn and Lexington brought up Shakespeare's play, I was like, "That's it. He's just a big fan of the play taking it too far."
Later when I saw City of Stone, I was like "He doesn't think he's Macbeth. He is Macbeth!" Even in "Lighthouse", I still thought he was just an eccentric, especially when he used the alias Lennox Macduff.
Was I dim or should I have realized he really is Macbeth before "City of Stone?"
No, you weren't dim. We were looking for that ambiguity.
You have answered previous questions about Luach's father with saying that, while born during Gruoch's marriage to Gillecomgain, Macbeth may have been his real father. Did you ever intend for this twist to surface in the comics when you rekindled the series?
Also, the year after Macbeth's "death", when Luach was killed, why, rather than going to join Macbeth (who surly knew of his son's death and his wife's desolation), did Gruoch commit suicide? Or is that simply history, and thus undependable?
By what means could Gruoch have found Macbeth?
A comment this time, rather than a question. One of my favorite details in the "Stone of Destiny" story was Macbeth's presence at the Battle of Bannockburn. It recently occurred to me that this might be an example, if a subtle one, of the time-honored motif of a legendary hero from long ago who returns to his country to aid it in a time of need.
The concept has attached itself to King Arthur, of course, and his return has featured in "Gargoyles" (if with a premature re-awakening). The returns of the Golem and Cu Chullain, elsewhere in the Avalon World Tour, also evoke it. For that matter, I remember your once saying that the Avalon gargoyles looked upon Goliath (from what they had learned of him through their human guardians) as a great sleeping hero who would one day awaken and return if ever they needed him - and he did indeed return in their hour of need, when the Archmage attacked Avalon.
I also recall, outside of "Gargoyles", the legend that Theseus returned to aid his fellow Athenians against the Persians at the Battle of Marathon (and Mary Renault including it in her Theseus novels) - which forms a great parallel here to Macbeth's presence at Bannockburn, both cases of a desperate struggle against an invading army.
At the same time, your use of the "return of the king" motif for Macbeth's participation at Bannockburn (assuming you had it in mind at the time) came with a twist. Macbeth returns incognito; so far as we know, none of the other Scotsmen taking part in the battle know that he's fighting alongside them. Robert the Bruce is the Scottish king who will be associated with the victory (deservedly, of course, from what I've read about the battle). No chronicle or legend even hints at his presence there. As far as we know, only he knows that he was there (we don't know if Shari knows or not; the panel depicting him at the battle is in one of her stories, but she does not mention him in the text itself). The king returned to aid his country in need, but in secret, his presence unremarked on.
Very cogent analysis.
In High Noon, what would Demona and Macbeth have done if Iago hadnât been the personality to take control over Coldstone? What was their plan if Desdemona or Othello had taken over?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
I'm afraid I'd have to watch this again too. It's just been too long.
Would Demona and Macbeth still blame each other if they knew how the Weird Sisters had manipulated them, or would they assume that the Sisters were responsible for their betrayals?
Please, Chris, allow me to scoop my own material by answering these questions. Please! What? You've changed your mind and don't want the answers? But I'm just dying to reveal everything here and now so that the viewing audience is protected from any surprises whatsoever. Besides, if you let me tell you everything now, it'll allow way more second-guessing and pre-judging of ideas, free of all that pesky execution of said ideas. So how 'bout it? Can I spill? Can I spoil? Ahhh, you're no fun.
Wait, wait. This wasn't a YJ spoiler question. Sorry, I got carried away there for a second.
Anyway, I think there's blame enough to go around. Particularly with Demona, who likes to spread the blame, not absorb it.
When Demona thought that Macbeth was going to betray her, why didn't she just take her clan and abandon him (or, if she really wanted to make sure he would fall, sabotage Castle Moray's defenses like with what happened to Wyvern)? Why would she work with Canmore, who she hated?
Did she hate Canmore? Back then?
Hi Greg. Got a quick question that I couldn't find in the archives. Where in New York City was Macbeth's home located?
Upper, upper, upper west side... on the water.
Or so I recall. It's been a while.
1)What do you think would have happened if Demona hadn't betrayed Macbeth to Canmore? Do you think her clan would still be around or do you think that due to Demona's nature they were all already living on borrowed time?(I'm still waiting on Clan Buliding Two maybe that will give me some answers)
1. As I've stated many times, I'm just not all that interested in exploring all the various "What if?" hypotheticals. I could come up with my response, but I might as well leave it to your imagination.
Were the present scenes in "City of Stone" the first time MacBeth actually tried to kill Demona? She seemed surprised when he did.
Will we ever see any of their meetings prior to CoS?
No, not the first time, and I don't think she was all that surprised at all. Listen to what she says.
And, given enough opportunities, you'd eventually see everything.
Is Macbeth a Scottish separatist/nationalist?
Nationalist, yes. Separtist, no.
In "High Noon" as Demona transforms in front of MacBeth, there are paintings of women all over the walls. Just artwork he likes or are the subjects more significant to Macbeth?
I'd have to look again.
Gargoyles and Politics
I know that you generally like to keep politics out of this site, which is why I hope that this question isn't too out-of-line. All the same, I'm very interested in the role that politics plays in the "Gargoyles" universe.
What, generally, are Elisa's political views? Does she belong to a particular political party? And does she discuss politics with the Manhattan Clan at all?
For that matter, how politically literate are the various members of the Manhattan Clan, particularly Goliath and Lexington? Do they read any political texts? For that matter, does Hudson ever catch "60 Minutes" or any similar shows on television? How much do Elisa's political views (assuming that she shares them with the Clan at all) color their political viewpoints?
I'd also be greatly interested in any information you would be willing to share regarding the politics of other human characters in the series, most particularly Xanatos, Fox, Matt, Renard, and especially Macbeth. For that matter, what does Demona think of human politics (I expect that I can guess the answer to this one, but still)? :)
If you can't tell, this is coming from a prospective Politics major who to some degree or another views all things through a political lens. If you wish to leave these things up to the viewer then I would completely understand, but any information at all would be tremendously appreciated.
Thank you very much for your time, and I eagerly await the widespread release of the two remaining Trade Paperbacks. I've been trying to spread word of them (and of the DVDs) in the Comments section of Gargoyles-related YouTube videos; every little bit helps, I hope.
Based purely on stereotypes of ethnicity and labor and location, I'd guess Elisa's a democrat.
I don't think politics is something that would attract Lex's attention much. I would think that Hudson, who prefers Celebrity Hockey to 60 Minutes, would feel lost rather quickly in political discussions. Goliath is all about the classics. I don't think Elisa's proselytizing much.
Xanatos seems like a likely Republican. At least fiscally. (Don't really see him or Fox as social conservatives.) Matt must be a Dem. Renard is probably a Republican. Macbeth... I don't think he's an American citizen. Demona... come on.
I've been hesitant about asking this question for a while, in case it turned out to be an idea in disguise, but:
In "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", when Goliath shouts to Owen "Take us to them [Xanatos, Broadway, and Hudson]!", Owen replies, with a sly smile on his face, "You should know that I can't do that."
Now, Owen/Puck's contract with Xanatos prevents him from using his abilities as Puck in his Owen-role, only permitting him to use his mundane skills. Was his line a subtle foreshadowing-reference to that? He'd certainly be debarred from transporting Goliath, Brooklyn, and Lexington to wherever Xanatos, Broadway, and Hudson were in the magical sense (even though Goliath obviously didn't have that in mind when he made the demand), by the deal he'd made. And it would certainly fit that smile of his, the kind of smile that suggests he knew something that Goliath didn't, and that he knew Goliath didn't know.
I'd love to say yes, and let you think I'm brilliant, but it wasn't really the idea in my head. Owen is saying "You should know that I can't do that..." meaning "You should know that Xanatos isn't behind this particular nefarious plot."
G2008 Radio Play (Chapter IX)
12:18AM. LANTERN OF THE ABBEY. Arthur opens the transport container to look upon the Stone of Destiny. Chapter Nine: Rock of Ages. 1:06AM GMT. Arthur listens to the glowing Stone.
â¦Pointless, Arthur Pendragon, to waste time protecting any particular stoneâ¦
1:31AM. VICTORIA TOWER. Arthur, Macbeth, Hudson, Lex, Amp, Griff, Coco, Coldstone and Coldfire confer.
Perhapsâ¦ perhaps this is all unnecessary. I donât think we need to guard the stone.
Macbeth, Arthur, Hudson, Lexington, Amp, Coco, Griff, Coldstone & Coldfire sit. Coldsteel & Coyote STAND.
NOVEMBER 15, 6:16AM. LEITH. Coyote and Coldsteel stand side-by-side inside a warehouse.
No, I am not programmed for free willâ¦
Pity. You have potentialâ¦
COLDSTREAM GUARD, Macbeth, Xanatos, Coldstone & Coldfire STAND.
NOVEMBER 15, 10:02AM. A Coldstream Guard holds up a hand to stop a transport convoy from driving onto Coldstream Bridge.
245. COLDSTREAM GUARD
Get the bomb unit! Now!!
Macbeth to Coldstone: convoyâs stopped, and Xanatos is here.
Well, itâs a momentous occasionâ¦ and such a lovely dayâ¦
Safe to say heâs up to something.
Yes, safe to say.
Coldstone and Coldfire intercept Coldsteel and Coyote heading for the Bridge.
Coldsteelâs tentacles grab Coldfire, forcing her arms up so that she nearly FRIES Coldstone.
As you see, Iâve had time to mend my ways. Well, my appendagesâ¦
Release her! <pain cry>
Coldstoneâs back is raked by Coyoteâs buzzsaw-arm.
Now that weâre machines, donât you love these exhilarating daytime battlesâ¦? No nasty organic gargoyles to even the oddsâ¦
Coldfire HEAD BUTTS Coldsteel violently. His tentacles release her.
Consider the odds evened.
A t-t-temporary s-s-setbackâ¦
Then letâs make it permanent.
Out of Davidâs respect for Goliath, I am programmed to inflict only as much damage as necessary to reach our objective. But I define the parameters of ânecessaryâ.
Coldstoneâs fist SHATTERS the half-Xanatos/half-robot skull image on Coyoteâs screen. Coldstone shoves his forearm cannon down Coyoteâs âthroatâ and fires. Coyote EXPLODES! The dented Coldsteel watches the wreckage of Coyote fall toward the RIVER TWEED below.
P-p-pity. He had p-p-potentialâ¦
Coldsteel POWER-DIVES down into the river. Coldstone follows but can find no sign of Coldsteel.
Coyote & Coldsteel sit.
10:12AM GMT. COLDSTREAM BRIDGE. Xanatos stands between Macbeth and Arthur. A Marching Band plays. Xanatos presses a small one-button remote. Inside the Land Rover, the Stoneâs metal transport container is strapped to the floor of the cargo space â" which FLIPS over, so that the real container is replaced by a DUPLICATE (with a duplicate stone inside).
268. COLDSTREAM GUARD
Hold it down! The Bomb Squadâs at work!
10:38AM GMT. The Guard signals the convoy forward.
270. COLDSTREAM GUARD
Right, weâre clear. Not a bomb. Just an empty shoebox.
Coldstone to Macbeth. Weâve lost Coldsteel.
Just stay on the alertâ¦
273. COLDSTREAM GUARD
Letâs go! Weâre behind schedule!
The Stoneâs on the move again.
Coldstream Guard, Macbeth, Xanatos, Coldfire & Coldstone sit. Thailog & Shari STAND.
NOVEMBER 15, 5:43AM EST. NIGHTSTONE UNLIMITED.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that on a clear Christmas night, a band of Scottish patriots broke into Westminster Abbey to steal the Stone and in the process broke it in two!
Thailog & Shari sit. Arthur & Macbeth STAND.
NOVEMBER 15, 12:00PM GMT. EDINBURGH CASTLE.
The Stoneâs back where it belongs! Well, it belongs in Scone, but at least itâs back in Scotland.
Macbeth & Arthur sit. Stone & Xanatos STAND.
A land rover from the convoy drives past Macbeth and Arthur. 12:36PM. LEITH. The Land Rover pulls into a non-descript warehouse and stops in front of a smiling Xanatos. 1:06PM. Xanatos listens to the glowing Stone.
â¦Pointless, David Xanatos, to substitute yet another stone to fool the Illuminatiâ¦
Stone sits. Coldsteel STANDS.
2:23PM. Coldsteel dumps pieces of Coyote shrapnel on the floor.
Thereâs whatâs left of your boyâ¦ and hereâs your rock.
Coldsteel tosses the Coyote Diamond to Xanatos.
Oh, Iâm just its minder.
I believe that completes our bargainâ¦
Indeed. Consider your tracking device deactivated.
Pleasure doing business with you.
Coldsteel sits. FLEUR STANDS.
Three. <pause> Any problems?
Only finding a duplicate on such short notice.
4:04PM. Behind the wheel of the Land Rover, Fleur drives through Leith. Fog rises, until the street is barely visible. The fog forms into Castle Carbonek. The Land Rover drives across the drawbridge into a large cobblestone courtyard.
I still outrank you, milady. I wonât tolerateâ"
Couldnât you both try to get along? Since you are, after all, the two people I love most in this world?
I brought the Stone.
Fleur, Duval & Peredur sit. Macbeth, Griff, Amp, LUNETTE, Coldstone & Hudson STAND.
NOVEMBER 15, 8:13PM. KNIGHTâS SPUR.
I know it doesnât matter, but Iâm glad the Stoneâs back in Scotland.
You lot should stay a while. Get to know the clanâ¦
Yeah, mates, stay!
But Coldsteel is still out thereâ¦
Aye, lad, but itâs a mighty big world, and even the banished and the badduns eventually return to the clan.
Macbeth, Griff, Amp, Lunette, Coldstone & Hudson sit. Stone, Peredur & GRAIL STAND.
NOVEMBER 16, 1:06AM. CASTLE CARBONEK. A frowning Peredur listens to the glowing stone.
â¦Pointless, Peredur fab Ragnal, to have gone to such extremes merely to possessâ¦ a rock.
On APRIL 11, 1951, 1:07AM at ARBROATH ABBEY, on NOVEMBER 15, 1:07PM in a warehouse in LEITH, on NOVEMBER 15, 1:07AM in the LANTERN OF THE ABBEY, and on NOVEMBER 16, 1:07AM inside CASTLE CARBONEK, Macbeth, Xanatos, Arthur and Peredur listen to the glowing Stone of Destiny.
Do you think the Spirit of Destiny can be contained in one vessel? I am the Fatal Stone. The Lia FÃ¡il. The Stone of Bethel and Jerusalem, of Egypt, Samothrace and Portugalâ¦ The Stone at Tara and of Mora, at Iona and of Scone, in London and in Edinburghâ¦ I am the Blarney Stone, the Coronation Stone, the Hero Stoneâ¦ I am the Pillar Stone, the Stone of the Sword, the Stone of the Waters, Clach-na-Cinneamhainâ¦ The Tanist Stone, the Philosopherâs Stone, the Standing Stone, the Cornerstoneâ¦ The Foundation Stone, the Megalith Dance, the Burden of Sisyphusâ¦ I am the Rock of Gibraltar, the Pillar of Hercules, Uluru, Clach SgÃ inâ¦ Jacobâs Pillow, the Rosetta Stone, the Rune Stone, Sire of the Wyrdâ¦ I AM THE MANTLE OF FATEâ¦ I AM THE STONE OF DESTINYâ¦ I AM THE ROCK OF AGES! Do not dream of possessing me, mortal.
NOVEMBER 16, 1:07AM. CASTLE CARBONEK. Behind Peredur, Fleur listens from the doorway.
Besides, Peredur, donât you have more important matters of concernâ¦ now that your Master has awakened?
What?! King Arthur cannot be awake?!
Awake and returned. I have twice conversed with him.
But we did not expect him for another two hundred years! Everything we planned--
I must contact the Upper Echelons immediately!
Peredur exits. Fleur is no longer in the doorway. The Stone is left alone with the Holy Grail.
Peredur, Stone & Grail sit. Thailog & Shari STAND.
NOVEMBER 16, 5:44AM EST. NIGHTSTONE UNLIMITED.
Very good. Should I continue?
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that the Stone was repaired and recovered. Some say a replica was reinstalled at Westminster; others disagree. Either way, the Stone remained undisturbed until yesterday, when it was transported to Edinburgh without incidentâ¦
And thatâs all you know of the Stone of Destiny?
Well, one last story is told--
As the sun sets, Owen Burnett and Macbeth wait for Goliath to wakeâ¦
--Though who can say if it be true?
Thailog & Shari sit.
G2008 Radio Play (Chapter VIII)
Meanwhile, on Victoria Towerâ¦
Lexington, Amp, Coco & Griff STAND.
So how big is your clan?
One hundred ninety-six gargoyles, ranging in age from Old Pog to little Lunette and her rookery sibs.
And are there eggs?
We donât dare outgrow Knightâs Spur, so to keep our numbers manageable, mated couples are allowed only two eggs across their lifespans instead of three.
Enforced isolation during the femaleâs final heat.
Tell me about it.
And are you two mates?
Us?!! God, no!!
Donât get me wrong. Cocoâs my best mate.
But âmatesâ? Please.
Okay, new topicâ¦ I didnât see any beastsâ¦
Because we have none.
Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur STAND.
NOVEMBER 15, 12:00AM. Victoria Tower. Hudson joins the others.
Any signs of life?
Nah. Quiet, bordering on dull.
Coldsteel & Coyote STAND.
I believe we can rectify that and still display no signs of life.
Coldsteel, Coyote, a Steel Clan Robot and an Iron Clan Robot attack.
Take to the sky, lads and lassie! Coldsteel is mine!!
Well, well, look whoâs biting off more than old gums can chew?
Brave words for a metal ghost!
Bring it on, you old horned goat!
Chapter Eight: Rock & Roll. Coyote blasts at Amp, whoâs knocked to safety by Lex.
Amp! Look out!
Griff and Coco battle the Iron Clan and Steel Clan robots. Macbeth and Arthur watch from below.
Why do these two look like Goliath?
Thatâs a Xanatos âbot!
If you say so.
He must be after the Stone! Wants it for his collection, I imagine. But I donât see him up there. The automatons may be a mere diversion. Best stay on the alertâ¦ Pendragonâ¦?
But Pendragon is gone. Coyote blasts at Lex & Amp.
I am programmed to terminate only if necessary. Abandon this airspace, and you will not be harmed.
Dream on, you electric sheep! Weâre not going anywhere âtil we know exactly what Xanatos and Fox are up to!
Coyote shocks Lex unconscious, but Amp catches him. Coco, meanwhile, sees Griff blast the arms off the Iron Clan Robot with a lightning gun.
Delimbification!! I like it!
Right-o! Weâll get Macbeth to issue these beauties to the entire clan!
Like I need the gun.
Coco cloaks her wings and tucks her knees to become a big gargoylean cannonball. The Steel Clan robot gains; she slams feet first into its chest, digs her talons in and RIPS its arms out.
Your hatchlings seem to think they invented the joys of dismemberment â" but I wonder how theyâd take to the real thing?
One of Coldsteelâs tentacles yanks the sword from Hudsonâs grasp. The other tentacles wrap around his arm to rip it from its socket.
Suddenly, fire from above melts the tentacles.
COLDSTONE & Coldfire STAND.
You never did learn to respect your elders. Did you, brother?
Anyone order up the kitchen sink?
Isnât this turning into quite the reunion?
12:12AM. WESTMINSTER ABBEY. Arthur takes out two guards.
Standing in front of the container holding the Stone, Arthur carefully places his crown on his head. Meanwhileâ¦
<recovery moan> Ampâ¦ Whatâd I miss? Never mind. I get the gist. Follow my lead!
Lex and Amp use their heat signatures to lure the Iron and Steel Clan Robots awayâ¦
Mate, you nicked my shinyâ¦
â¦and into the path of Coyoteâs laser blasts. The Iron and Steel Clan robots explode. This distracts Coldsteel, allowing Hudson to recover his sword by ripping Coldsteelâs last remaining tentacle from its socket.
Feeling a bit outnumbered, brother?
Outnumbered and overmatched!
Yes, I wasnât expecting all the companyâ¦
Coldsteel drives Hudson back by generating an electric fieldâ¦
Though Iâm far from shocked by the development. Coyote, cover our departure. Tomorrow is another day.
Joining Coyote, Coldsteel rockets between a surprised Coldstone and Coldfire, who are forced apart by his e-field. The gargoyles pursue, but Coyote generates a bright light that whites out the night sky.
Coldsteel & Coyote SIT.
Tomorrow, Chapter IX...
G2008 Radio Play (Chapter VII)
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE STAND.
NOVEMBER 2, 6:46AM EST. Scarab Corp. Coldsteel looks on, as David Xanatos installs a diamond inside Coyote 5.0.
And what would that be?
Itâs called the Coyote Diamondâ¦
Chapter Seven: The Rock.
The stoneâs flawless surfaces and clarity increase the speed of--
Iâm sorry I asked.
My apologies. Iâm sure youâre much more interested in your own situation.
I was under the impression I had free will.
And you do. I promise summoning you was a one-time event. On the other hand, your unit does include a built-in tracking deviceâ¦ which Iâm happy to deactivateâ¦
Permanently. All I ask in return is help on one small errand. Are we agreed?
We are agreed.
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE sit. TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA STAND.
3:52PM EST. The Labyrinth. Talon cradles Maggie the Cat, as Dr. Jay Sato examines her. Elisa Maza looks on.
How is she, Doc?
Well, her pulse is fine, and her injuries seem to be healing nicelyâ¦
See, Derek, I said you were worried over nothing.
But Iâm a surgeon. Treating someone in Maggieâsâ¦ âconditionâ is really not my area.
Not anyoneâs, Dr. Sato. Anyone we dare trust anyway.
Itâs as if youâve revealed a new world to meâ¦
Yep, youâre a medical pioneer.
Pioneer or not, she needs an O.B.
TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA sit. Macbeth, BROOKLYN, GOLIATH, BROADWAY, OWEN & Xanatos STAND.
4:50PM EST. Eyrie Building. As the sun sets, Owen Burnett and Macbeth wait for Goliath to wake. NOVEMBER 2, 5:12PM EST. Inside the Great Hall, Macbeth addresses Goliath, Brooklyn, Hudson, Angela, Broadway, Bronx and Lexington.
Itâs called the Stone of Destiny. For centuries the kings of Scotland were crowned upon it at Sconeâ¦
Magic talking stone. Weâve heard of it.
Yes, well, the English stole it. Now, after eight hundred years, itâs finally being returned. Iâm asking for your help to ensure it gets to Scotland safely.
Donât you haveâ¦ minionsâ¦ for this?
Weâve parted ways. Please, Goliath. Many â" including your landlord â" would stop at nothing to get the Stone.
I have been wounded twice in one week. I am healed â" but not whole. But my second, Brooklyn, can lead Broadway, Lexington and Angela to join your quest.
Yeah, weâre goinâ to Scotland!!
Well, England to start with--
I donât know, Goliath, if youâre recovering, maybe this is the wrong time to send me overseas.
Ahâ¦ Yes. You are needed here. Hudson may lead this expedition.
Owen, watching the exchange by closed circuit, talks on the phone to Xanatos, whoâs about to board a private plane.
Yes, Macbeth, Hudson, Broadway, Angela and Lexingtonâ¦ Shall I attempt to stop them?
That wonât be necessary. I believe Iâve planned for this contingency.
Back in the Great Hall, Angela whispers in Broadwayâs ear.
Uhâ¦ yeahâ¦ Manhattanâs dangerous right now. Me and Angelaâll stay too. To help Brooklyn.
Thatâs great. Thanks.
Macbeth, Brooklyn, Goliath, Broadway, Owen & Xanatos sit. SHARI STANDS.
NOVEMBER 3, 5:29AM EST. Nightstone Unlimited. Shari and Thailog are in Dominique Destineâs office.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of two brothers who both loved the same female. And though all strife comes to an end one way or another, some conflicts refuse to stay dead. Xanatos and Demona used science and sorcery to create a monster from fragments of all three gargoyles, their bodies and souls. But in the end, the souls were segregated into Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel. Itâs really a timeless love story.
SHARI sits. Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON STAND.
3:00PM GMT. London. A private jet lands. Customs Officials greet Macbeth, as workers wheel two large crates from the planeâs hold.
55. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
57. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Welcome to England, sir. Anything to declare?
Works of art for my home in Berkeley Square.
59. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Have to have a look in, sir.
The crates are opened, revealing Lexington and Hudson, frozen in stone. 4:30PM GMT. Macbeth waits on the roof of his Berkeley Square Townhouse for Hudson and Lexington to wake. The sun sets. 5:07PM. Itâs past sunset. Hudson and Lex are STILL frozen in stone. 6:15PM. Night. No change. 7:01PM. Macbeth grows concerned. 7:45PM. Hudson and Lex finally wake.
62. LEXINGTON, HUDSON
Whoa, I donât feel so hotâ¦ and look how dark it is? How long have we been asleep?
Welcome, lad, to the wonderful world of jetlag. Donât worry. Youâve got ten days to adjust before they move the Stone.
Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON sit. Shari, INTERCOM & VINNIE STAND.
NOVEMBER 4, 5:30AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog soaks in a jacuzzi. Shari sits nearby.
The story is told -- though who can say if it be true-- of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abrahamâ¦ who fled the wrath of his brother Esau to a place he would call Bethel, where he laid his head upon a stone and had a wondrous vision!
5:35AM EST. J.F.K.
Flight 994, now boarding all rowsâ¦
Can you believe it? Iâm goinâ to Japan!
Shari, Intercom & Vinnie sit. Goliath & Elisa STAND.
9:48PM EST. Goliathâs Tower.
About Halloweenâ¦ I will not hold you to words spoken when you believed my life hung in the balance.
Even if I want to be held?
I know you care for me. That is not at issue. But what of the things I cannot give youâ¦ picnicsâ¦ normalcyâ¦?
We can have a picnic anytimeâ¦ and normalcyâs so over-rated.
She runs her fingers through his hair. He takes her into his arms and kisses her.
Goliath & Elisa sit. Shari STANDS.
NOVEMBER 5, 5:31AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari look out over the city.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that Gathelus, a son of the king of Athens, won many victories for the Pharaoh of Egypt, who rewarded the prince with the hand of his beloved: Pharaohâs own daughter, Scota. But Gathelus had also befriended Moses, the Hebrew, who warned his young friends of the plagues to befall the Kingdom of the Nile. Gathelus and Scota determined to leave Egypt, and Moses entrusted them with Jacobâs Pillow, the Hebrewsâ sacred stoneâ¦
NOVEMBER 6, 5:32AM EST. ST. DAMIENâS CATHEDRAL. Thailog, Shari and Brentwood search for something.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that Gathelus fled Egypt with his wife and the Stone of the Hebrews. He sought landfall on the rocky shores of Samothrace, for Scota was heavy with child and could go no farther. Still destiny blessed them with fine twin sonsâ¦
6:00AM EST. Thailog flies Shari across the city. Brentwood follows.
Gathelus and his family would wander the globe for two years before finding a home on the Iberian Peninsula in a place they named the Port of Gathelus, or Portugal. By this time the family had grown: the Athenian prince and Egyptian princess now had four healthy boys in their care not to mention one large Stone.
NOVEMBER 7, 5:33AM EST. Thailog and Shari begin a game of chess.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that after the death of her beloved Gathelus, Scota departed Portugal with her eight sonsâ¦ only to lose five of the boys at seaâ¦ while Scota herself and another son died warriorâs deaths upon landing in Ireland. But her eldest boy, Eremon, and her youngest, Eber Finn, survived, and Eremon was crowned king upon the Stone at Tara.
Shari sits. Xanatos & FOX stand.
2:18PM GMT. Mayfair. Xanatos takes Alexander from Fox.
Darling, if you like the shoes, buy themâ¦
The black manolos in the windowâ¦ do you have them in a size nine? Lovely. Wrap them up, please.
2:45PM GMT. Fox exits the store.
7:19PM GMT. Fox admires her new shoes in the full-length mirror of her hotel room. Xanatos admires the shoebox.
Darling? Do you still need this shoeboxâ¦ or might I dispose of it?
Xanatos & Fox sit. Shari & THAILOG STAND.
NOVEMBER 8, 5:34AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari continue their chess game.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Moses, who led the Hebrews out of Egypt and into the desertâ¦ bringing forth water from Jacobâs Pillow to quench their--
You said Moses gave the Stone to Gathelus and Scota before leading the Hebrews out of Egypt!
The story is toldâ¦
<pause> Though who can say if it be true? Right. Continue.
The Hebrews passed the Stone down the centuries, until the prophet Jeremiah offered it in dowry to King Eochaid of Ireland when he wed Tamar Tea Tephi, Princess of Judah. Eochaid ensconced the Stone at Tara and dubbed it Lia FÃ¡il.
NOVEMBER 9, 5:36AM EST.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Cu Chullain, the Hero of Ulster, who championed Lugaid Red-Stripe for king. But when the Lia FÃ¡il would not cry to confirm Lugaid, Cu Chullain was enraged, striking with Gae Bolga, the Spear of Light, and splitting the Stone of Destiny forever!
NOVEMBER 10, 5:37AM EST. Shari captures Thailogâs white knight with her black bishop.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of young Prince Fergus of Ireland, who carried half Cu Chullainâs handiwork to Argyll in what men now call Scotland to found a kingdom called Dalriada. Though a castle called Carbonek found him instead, bringing the Priest-King Pelles and the Archmage Merlin and their request to borrow the Stone of Destiny for a purpose of their own. A purpose fulfilled in Londontown by a sword clepâd Excalibur in a stone clepâd Lia FÃ¡il drawn forth by a boy clepâd Arthur.
NOVEMBER 11, 5:38AM EST. Thailog tips over one of Shariâs black rooks with his white bishop.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Saint Columba, he who tamed the monster of Loch Ness, before returning to the island of Iona, where Merlin and Pelles had brought the Stone once it had served their purposes. And where Columba laid down his head upon Jacobâs Pillow and breathed his last.
NOVEMBER 12, 5:39AM EST. Shariâs Black Queen is lined up to capture Thailogâs White King.
Would you prefer I lost on purpose?
Iâd fire you if you did. Donât you have a story to tell?
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Kenneth MacAlpin, scion of Fergus, who united the Kingdoms of Scotland and was crowned High King upon the Stone at Scone. As would all the Heirs of Scota â" for the next four hundred years.
NOVEMBER 12, 10:00PM GMT. David Xanatos presses a button on a remote control. NOVEMBER 13, 6:01AM GMT+8. TIBET. Inside the old cave, Coldstone and Coldfire stand over Master Dawa and Sangpo. All react to a noise.
I believeâ¦ I believe I can find himâ¦
NOVEMBER 13, 5:40AM EST. NIGHTSTONE.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Edward the First of England, the Hammer of the Scots, who sicced his mighty Warwolf on his neighbors to the north and took as prize the Stone of Scone, which he installed in the Coronation Chair at Westminster Abbey, where it has crowned the kings and queens of England down to this very dayâ¦
Shari & Thailog sit. Lexington, Macbeth, Hudson, Arthur, GRIFF, AMP & COCO STAND.
NOVEMBER 13, 5:32PM GMT. Hudson and Lex are atop Victoria Tower. Macbeth is below, in front of Westminster Abbey.
All clear. No sign of trouble.
Not expecting trouble tonight. Theyâre only moving the Stone from the Coronation Chair to the Lantern. It wonât leave the Abbey until tomorrow.
Aye, and the human security is tight as a drum. Iâm nae convinced you could break in there with a battering ram.
Youâd be surprised.
<yawn> Still nothing to report. Who exactly are we expecting?
Anyone. Everyone. Just stay alertâ¦
Macbeth spots a shadowy figure and pursues it down into a London Underground Stationâ¦
Iâm probably on a wild goose chase, lads. But in case Iâm not, youâd better head thisâ¦ wayâ¦
That could be a problemâ¦
Arthur Pendragon puts Excalibur to Macbethâs throat. Meanwhile, on Victoria Tower, Hudson and Lex are surrounded by gargoyles.
By the blade of Excalibur, what are you up to now, Macbeth?
King Arthur?! Iâm here to protect the Stone of Destiny!
Then our two quests are one and the same!
129. ARTHUR, MACBETH (UNISON)
Theyâll be at each otherâs throats!!
Hudson! Lexington! Bloody lovely to see you again!
You too, Griff!
Aye, lad. The baddunsâll have no chance at that Stone now!
NOVEMBER 14, 5:28AM. Macbeth radios Lex.
Itâll soon be dawn. You and Hudson go with Griff. Arthur and I will stand vigil through the day.
Arthur & Macbeth sit.
5:33AM GMT. Griff, Hudson, Lex and the other two gargoyles glide over London.
Are we headed to Soho? Goliath said you have a store thereâ¦
We do. But I thought Iâd take you home instead. To our clan--
To Knightâs Spur!
You know, Griff, I donât believe weâve been properly introduced to your Yank friendsâ¦
<Hmph> Watch who youâre callinâ a Yank, lassâ¦
Where are my manners? Hudson, Lexington, this is Constance.
My friends call me Coco.
And this is Staghart.
My friends call me Amp!
Nobody calls you Amp, luv.
Iâll call you Amp.
Welcome to Knightâs Spurâ¦
7:20AM. Atop Knightâs Spur, Old Pog, Hudson, Griff, Lex, Amp, Coco and Lunette sleep as stone.
Hudson, Lexington, Griff, Amp & Coco sit. Arthur & Macbeth STAND.
7:48AM. Macbeth and Arthur sip coffee outside a Nightstoneâs cafÃ©.
â¦Mortally wounded in 542. So they shipped me off to some magic hill and put me to sleep for a thousand four hundred fifty-three years.
Deal with a demon in 1040. Officially died in 1057. Been sleepwalking for nine hundred thirty-nine years.
<pause> Guess I got the better bargain.
Ach, I try not to dwell these days. So hereâs to the immortals. There arenât many like usâ¦
Arthur & Macbeth sit. Shari STANDS.
NOVEMBER 14, 5:42AM EST. NIGHTSTONE. Shari places her black knight in front of Thailogâs white knight.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Robert the Bruce of Scotland, who defeated the English at Bannockburn with the help of an Irish ally, Cormac MacCarthy. With the victory, came a prize: a fragment of the Fatal Stone that England had taken from Scone. This fragment, the Bruce gave to MacCarthy, whose descendents had it installed at Blarney Castle, where it is said to grant the gift of gab. Iâve kissed it myself a time or twoâ¦
Shari sits. Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur STAND.
NOVEMBER 14, 6:32PM GMT. Knightâs Spur. Hudson, Macbeth and Arthur confer in a book-lined study.
Lex, Griff, Constance and Staghart sent you home to rest thenâ¦
Aye, Hudson. Weâll catch a few hours sleep then head back out. But youâ¦?
I had some questions for the Pendragon. Werenât you on a quest to find your wizard?
Indeed. And Sir Griff and I searched for Merlin in all the obvious places. But to no gain. So Iâve been âdoing researchâ on Merlinâ¦ and on myself.
Hudson examines a copy of Le Morte DâArthur by Thomas Malory.
So many booksâ¦ are any of them true?
All things are trueâ¦ few things are accurate.
Aye. No bloody kidding.
Hudson contemplates this.
Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur sit.
Tomorrow, Chapter VIII...
G2008 Radio Play
No, that's not a misprint. Before I post the G2009 Gargoyles/Spectacular Spider-Man crossover radio play, I'm going to post (over the next few days) the G2008 Radio Play. This was a CHRONOLOGICAL adaptation of issues 7-9 of the Gargoyles comic, i.e. the Stone of Destiny three-parter which makes up the first half of the recently released trade paperback, GARGOYLES: CLAN-BUILDING, VOLUME II. Now that the trade is out, I'm okay with posting this. But there are some caveats...
1. Reading this does NOT replace buying the trade. Because...
2. This version of the story doesn't really work, dramatically or otherwise. The story wasn't designed to be told chronologically. It gets somewhat tiresome told in chronological order and the final dramatic moment with the Stone talking to Macbeth, Xanatos, Arthur and Peredur across four time periods has none of it's power.
Nevertheless, here it is... or at any rate, here is the title page, cast list and teaser. I'll post the three chapters over the next three days...
Chapter VII: THE ROCK
Chapter VIII: ROCK & ROLL
Chapter IX: ROCK OF AGES
(Radio Play Edition)
A Chronological Adaptation
(from his SLG comic book scripts)
The Twelfth Annual
Gathering of the Gargoyles
Performed June 28, 2008.
CHAPTER VII: THE ROCK
CHAPTER VIII: ROCK & ROLL
CHAPTER IX: ROCK OF AGESâ
(Radio Play Edition)
1. NARRATOR 86 lines.
2. MACBETH 34 lines.
3. SHARI 22 lines.
4. COLDSTEEL 22 lines.
5. LEXINGTON 21 lines.
6. STONE OF DESTINY 15 lines.
7. HUDSON 13 lines.
8. DAVID XANATOS 13 lines.
9. ARTHUR PENDRAGON 13 lines.
10. CONSTANCE/COCO 12 lines.
11. STAGHART/AMP 9 lines.
12. GRIFF 9 lines.
13. THAILOG 8 lines.
14. COLDSTONE 6 lines.
15. COLDFIRE 5 lines.
16. GOLIATH 5 lines.
17. COYOTE 5.0 5 lines.
18. PEREDUR 4 lines.
19. COLDSTREAM GUARD 4 lines.
20. ELISA MAZA 4 lines.
21. JAY SATO 4 lines.
22. BLANCHEFLEUR 3 lines.
23. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL 3 lines.
24. BROOKLYN 3 lines.
25. DUVAL 2 lines.
26. FOX 2 lines.
27. BROADWAY 2 lines.
28. HOLY GRAIL 1 line.
29. LUNETTE 1 line.
30. VINNIE 1 line.
31. AIRPORT INTERCOM 1 line.
32. OWEN BURNETT 1 line.
33. MAGGIE THE CAT 1 line.
34. TALON 1 line.
35. SCOTTISH PATRIOT 1 line.
CHAPTER VII: THE ROCK
CHAPTER VIII: ROCK & ROLL
CHAPTER IX: ROCK OF AGESâ
ARTHUR, MACBETH, PATRIOT & STONE STAND.
Gargoyles. Clan-Building. SEPTEMBER 29, 500. London.
And as High King, I, Arthur Pendragon, swear by the Stone of Destiny to protect Britain and to serve her people all my daysâ¦
SEPTEMBER 29, 1040. Scone.
And as High King, I swear by the Stone of Destiny to protect Scotland and to serve her people all my daysâ¦
DECEMBER 25, 1950. Westminster Abbey.
All right, lads. Now or--
APRIL 11, 1951, 1:06AM GMT. ARBROATH ABBEY. Macbeth has just finished repairing the Stone of Destiny with epoxy. Thereâs a visible crack, but itâs in one piece.
There. Good as new. You can barely see the--
The stone glows blue. The crack vanishes.
Thank you, Macbeth mac Findlaech, but the effort was pointlessâ¦
ARTHUR, MACBETH, PATRIOT & STONE sit.
If I'm remembering correctly, Elisa and Goliath only figure out that Macbeth and Demona were being controlled by the Weird Sisters when they reach Avalon. So after the events of High Noon, what steps were taken to protect the clock tower, as it appeared that now both Macbeth AND Demona knew where they slept, and could come by any time they felt like it and destroy them when the sun was up? Of course with Macbeth and Demona whisked off to Avalon retaining no memory of what they did, the gargoyles were perfectly safe for the time being--but they didn't know that. Being vulnerable to Xanatos in the same way was the main reason Elisa pushed so hard for the Gargoyles to move house. I know not much time passed between the events of High Noon on Nov. 14th and the day Goliath, Bronx and Elisa went with Tom to Avalon, but the repercussions of those events seem too important for the gargoyles to ignore.
Was anything done to protect the police station's entrance to the clock tower where the gargoyles live? Was it discussed at any length? Just very curious to know how Elisa and Goliath adjusted to this (to them, at least) major breach of home safety.
It's a fair question, but I don't have a really cool answer. I just haven't thought about it. I think they know Macbeth well enough at this point to believe he wouldn't attack them while they slept. But they can't have been as sanguine about Demona, though I suppose I can semi-buy the notion that Goliath would feel that Demona might be willing to kill them in a hundred ways BUT NOT by smashing them while they slept. That doesn't mean it's true, just that Goliath could talk himself into believing it's true. And, as we know, he can be stubborn when he gets an idÃ©e fixe.
Even though Demona and MacBeth are tied together, and neither can die unless one kills the other, would it have been possible to smash Demona when she was stone during the day (BEFORE "The Mirror"), such as when she turned to stone in "Long Way To Morning"? If so, would MacBeth have died? I know this is a moot point, and even as silly as asking "What if one of them were BEHEADED?!" but I'm just curious! Thank you.
This is a moot point, and even as silly as asking "What if one of them were BEHEADED?!"
Has Macbeth had any contact with or even know if the Third Race exist?
Yes and yes.
Hey Greg! I know you've been mostly dealing with Spidey queries lately, but hopefully you won't mind "kickin' it old school" so-to-speak and answering a Gargoyles question.
I'd been taking a Shakespeare course this semester at school, and I chose to write a paper on Shakespeare's Macbeth's influence on yours. (I got an A by the way). Anywhoozle, obviously this meant re-watching some Of the Mac-centric episodes, including of course the wonderful "City of Stone", which as it alway does, reminded me of how much I love Macbeth's complex backstory and that of the legacy of The Hunter.
Now I did search the archives before asking this, so I know the Canmores in "Hunters Moon" were not aware of Macbeth, but I couldn't find if you had said whether or not HE was aware of THEM.
Was he as of "Hunter's Moon?" And if not, is he aware of them as of "The Rock" in the comics?
I'd guess Macbeth has encountered a Canmore or two over the years. But it's not canon 'til it's canon.
I was rewatching 'Enter Macbeth' yesterday and was wondering how sentamental Macbeth is about material objects collected over time. Watching his New York mansion burn and crumble must have left a bitter taste in Macbeth's mouth, but was it just the defeat? That stained glass window was pretty nice. Probably was an extensive project to commision. There was that whole hall of weapons. Were any of them relics from the past? Macbeth sure has a tendancy to hold a grudge, which would lend itself to the habit of collecting keepsakes. But then again maybe not. In 'A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time' he was interested in Merlin's scrolls for their potential power and scoffed at Broadway's suggestion that they were important in and of themselves. I'm Goliath didn't destroy everything of value to Macbeth as I'm sure his storhouses are many and plentiful, but was there / would there ahve been anything of sentimental value to Macbeth destroyed in that fire? Does he collect such things? Original edition books; paintings; photographs; etc.
I'm sure he has/had a substantial collection. And I'm sure there were certain things he lost that he'd miss. But I don't see him as being all that materialistic. And I definitely don't see him as a guy who generically carries grudges against any perceived slight. I also don't think he scoffed at Broadway's suggestion that the scrolls were important in and of themselves. Quite the reverse, he hadn't thought of that UNTIL Broadway pointed it out. At which point, he let them go back to the museum without a fight.
Deep down does Demona know that Macbeth wasn't going to betray her?
In "City of Stone", you had Findlaech, Gillecomgain, and Duncan all die by either falling off something or getting burned up by the Weird Sisters' magic, to make the methods of their deaths acceptable for Standards & Practices.
But in Part Four, you had Canmore temporarily slay Macbeth by running him through with a sword. Did you have any difficulty with Standards & Practices over that?
Nope. Because (a) the audience saw no details of the event and (b) a few seconds later he stood up.
Hey. I just wanted to say great job with the Spectacular Spider-Man. I saw most of the first season. I haven't seen the second season though. I'm not sure if there is one or not though. Now that I think 'bout it...
I haven't really checked in the site in awhile. I was obssesed with Gargoyles from, like, last June - October, but then it kinda died down. I did get the first vol. of season 2 though for Christmas. It's very good. I 'specially like the Audio Commentary for city of stone. I'm just wondering since I remember hearing that you said Macbeth went to america...
Does Macbeth travel most of the world? Like, does he go to other countries such as China and Australia? Or is that something you dont' know/aren't willing to say at the moment?
There is a second season in the works, but you couldn't have seen it yet.
I'm sure Macbeth -- over the course of his very long life -- is quite the world-traveler.
So I unexpectedly came off work early today and found myself with a bit of free time-- not much, mind you, but enough. I don't know what it says for my intelligence or creativity that my thoughts immediately wandered to television, but eh . . . free time is supposed to make you feel good, not benefit humanity as a whole. And it felt like it'd been awhile since I'd gotten to actually sit down and watch anything (as opposed to, say, piping up the volume and listening from another room while I do this, that or the other thing). I wasn't sure what, if anything, I was in the mood for, and cast a casual eye onto my DVD shelf.
Well, why not Gargoyles? The quality ratio and fun factor with that show is so high that the only difficult part there is choosing which episode to run. So I pulled down Season One.
Initially I thought to watch Awakenings, but that's a lot of time to commit for one sitting when I had other things to be doing later on. I decided I'd watch "Enter Macbeth" instead.
It is, of course, one of my all-time favorites. mainly because of its titular character.
I actually watched it two times through for the hell of it. When I was finished, I ended up thinking and rethinking through a lot of it . . . and then somewhere in the back of my mind I remembered ASK GREG.
So, I thought I'd ramble. That *is* allowed, isn't it?
Yeah, we'll tell the truth on this one: The episode does kinda look like . . . well, crap. I have a much more affectionate eye for the episode than I did upon first viewing and look past a lot of it now, but there are still moments of "Enter Macbeth" that I can't get out of my head as something to say, "God, that's some [your negative adjective goes here] animation." I can't quite put my finger on what it is-- the whole episode just feels so off from a visual standpoint.
This would, in fact, become the start of one of the things I disliked most about this particular studio. When gargoyle wings fold over cloak-like, you should not see the three "limbs" as you do when seeing their interior. Or at least, you don't in the better animation studios. Drive me nuts; don't know why.
And of course, there was that one shot of Macbeth with the most yellow friggin' teeth. WTF?!
Greg, it's been many years since I've checked the archives in any great detail, but I think I remember you saying something like, "I was sure that the bad animation would make it so that almost no one would be interested in seeing Macbeth again." Well, this is one of those instances where the characters and plot shine through to make up for an episode's lackluster animation. (I call them "Korean Incidents".) It never detracted from the story. Not for me, anyways.
Let's start with Macbeth himself. This is an interesting character. At first glance, he appears to come out of nowhere. His motivations are unclear, so for now he's just "the bad guy". So how do you sell him without the cool backstory that will be developed later?
You have him kick copious amounts of ass, both literally and figuratively.
The scene with him posing as a prison guard is a highlight. So much of the credit for this episode should go to John Rhys-Davies, who from what I can tell just leapt into the role. Although, is it my failing memory or is this practically the only time that Xanatos and Macbeth have any real interaction with one another? If this is true, then that's a shame because they play well off of one another. But why would Macbeth introduce himself as . .. well, *himself*, rather than Lennox MacDuff (presuming that this is the identity he's gone by for many hundreds of years as a cover)?
Look at this guy, though. Not only does he wait for the gargoyles to awaken, he takes them all on single-handedly and wins. Not only that, but he takes prisoners. All on their home turf, and without so much as breaking a SWEAT. His knowledge in these "creatures" is so expert that he knows precisely what to do and how to do it with cold and calculated precision.
Check that attack. He throws (an admittedly off-guard) Broadway into Hudson and over the castle edge with ease. Then before anyone else can react, he tosses the smoke pellets and gains the upper hand over everyone else. Confusion ensues. The gargoyles who can't see and don't move end up blindsighted by gargoyles who can't see and DO move in very wrong directions. Or by Macbeth himself, who most assuredly can see and makes short work of Brooklyn before he can do a damned thing.
From there, it's just zap zap zap and it's finished. "Captured me three gargs in under 20 seconds, EL-OH-EL."
I always found this battle to be interesting in and of itself. Macbeth, for as much as we know this far in the game, is ordinarily human. He doesn't have biological enhancements or special powers or even henchmen; he's as human as you or me. And he takes them ALL down. Hell, Goliath himself probably gets the worst of it-- the outcome is so nakedly humiliating that I'm blushing. Oh, and that body slam into the fusebox didn't help either.
And is it me, or was Elisa WAY too close when Goliath came swooshing down after being electrified by the hull of Macbeth's ship? I say that she was damned lucky: If he had actually COLLIDED with her at that speed, I say that she might've been crushed to death.
So now Goliath leaves to track them down. Hudson and Broadway are left to defend the castle, but of course that's another subplot all its own.
Elisa warns Goliath that it's not safe to stay at the castle. Hell, she says it three times in a row. And his best reaction is to shrug her off-- something he won't be so apt to do in later episodes. He took off awful fast to rescue the other gargoyles at that point, almost as though he couldn't avoid the conversation fast enough.
Something else we don't see a lot of in later episodes tends to show in abundance with regards to Season One and particularly "Enter Macbeth", and that's Goliath Pissed Off. It was only juuuuuuust last episode that he was in a rage over what he thought was Elisa getting shot by Dracon. Goliath holding Dracon over the railing was a powerful dramatic moment. (Although in hindsight, he does that a LOT. Twice in "Awakening" with Hakon and Xanatos, Dracon in "Deadly Force" and I think at least once more somewhere down the line, although I can't remember when.) But in "Enter Macbeth", it's kinda flipped around. Goliath caught Dracon with relative ease, and it was clear what he would have done had Broadway not fessed up in time. Goliath never catches Macbeth, though. And he spends so much time chasing mirrors and shadows that I think Goliath might have been pissed enough to do worse than simply drop him. So we get to see a lot of vicious anger on his part in this ep. Roaring. Tearing through walls. Getting into a slugfest. Goliath isn't just another species, he's a dangerous one when it comes to the defense of his clan.
But that just makes Macbeth even cooler. Now it's Goliath who's handled with ease. Think about that for a moment. GOLIATH. A gargoyle warrior who is more than a match for just about any human out there. But against Macbeth, and especially on his turf, that same gargoyle finds himself at a disadvantage. And what makes that so interesting is that Macbeth isn't this ZOMG "genetically-engineered gargoyle sorceress hybrid mutant clone" superior foe. He's a human being. A human being with technology up the wazoo, but still human.
Look at the way he handles himself in their duel, after the chase is over. It's completely even. It was smart of Goliath to grab for a weapon when he got the chance, because even if weaponry isn't his habit I think he knew that against a sword-swinging Macbeth it was his only real chance. Even so, Macbeth doesn't relent. Goes on and on. Fights until the mansion is about to go up in flames . . . and he never gets too angry or panicked even when forced to escape. Is he pissed because the plan went to rot and his house burned down? Sure, why not? But he still takes it all with a certain amount of stride. No loud threats for vengeance, no personal grudge against Goliath, no real "villainous" actions taken at all (except, maybe, leaving the other gargoyles to burn alive). He just leaves when the gettin's good, and knows a little more for next time.
Love that little slip-out-of-the-jacket thing, by the way.
No, Macbeth doesn't have extra emotions to waste on Goliath and company. He wants Demona, Demona, Demona. The other gargoyles are just pawns (albeit useless ones as it turns out). I think it was a wise decision for her to not show up in this episode at all; it would have been too convenient, not to mention that it would also have detracted from Macbeth's character study. This is his episode.
Back at the castle, the remaining Gargoyles decide to take the Grimorum off Xanatos' hands. Now Owen gets his moment, too.
Hudson: Who's going to stop us? You?
You can tell by Hudson's attitude that he didn't expect Owen to knock his ass onto the floor. I don't think any of us did! Then, before Broadway can intervene, he's got a loaded gun pointed at his head. (I don't think that S&P would let that slide nowadays.) Owen is capable and reasonably prepared, no matter the circumstances. I think it's great that it's Elisa throwing a crutch at him that effectively turns the tables-- for all their strength, the gargoyles ended up pretty helpless otherwise.
Ah, well. All part of the job for Owen Burnett. However, I wonder if he faced some sort of penalty or reprimand for failing to prevent the theft of the Grimorum.
I despise when recurring characters are introduced via Korean outsourcing. I would say, introduce them some other way, and then give them crap animation somewhere down the line. Macbeth has a great character design; it should have been introduced through one of the better studios, perhaps the best one. (Not that I'm implying fault. You can give only so many episodes to Japan's Tokyo outlet; you make your choices and you live with 'em.) This is one of those episodes that I say to myself, "Damn, I'd love to see what this would'a looked like with kickass animation."
The "City of Stone" four-parter becomes interesting for this reason, given that we see how many changes Macbeth has gone through throughout the centuries . . . again, both figuratively and literally. It's not done by the Tokyo studio, but we're given so many designs for Macbeth. It's wonderful.
I've gotta start dinner now, so I guess that about does it for me. Later!
We couldn't know while writing scripts which episodes were headed for Korea vs. Japan. Of course, nowadays, things in Korea have improved quite a bit. ALL of The Spectacular Spider-Man is animated there, and we're generally thrilled with the results.
Illustrated in the scene following Macbeth saving Duncan, what was the latter's reason for fearing and/or hating gargoyles? We know very well why Gillecomgain hated Demona and her kind. It's easy to guess why Duncan's son, Malcolm Canmore, hated them because of the part they played in Macbeth becoming king of Scotland. So, why did Duncan want to destroy Demona and her clan before he came to suspect that Macbeth was conspiring against him?
Because Macbeth seemed to have a relationship with them. And because he couldn't control them. And because they were powerful.
I think it's pretty interesting that Macbeth is actually the grandson of Princess Katherine's cousin. Do Macbeth and Princess Katherine ever realise that they are relatives?
I don't think Katharine does... and Macbeth isn't exactly "himself" when he meets her.
First off, I would just like to say that I am a huge fan of Gargoyles, and I look forward to any news on further DVD releases when it becomes available. With that out of the way, I'm curious as to whether or not Macbeth has any family ties to the Princess of Castle Wivern (I admit, I'm drawing a blank on her name). Are they both of the same royal bloodline, or are they from separate kingdoms within Scotland?
Princess Katharine's cousin Maol Chalvim was Macbeth's grandfather.
It's me! Again. Another Macbeth thought.
I just finished reading your ramble on the episode "Enter Macbeth." I find it very ironic that at that time, you were only aware of the Shakespearian Macbeth. I guess the same goes for me the first time I watched it, but it's interesting how even though his (the show's Macbeth) back story hadn't been completely known to you at the time, he doesn't come across as the paranoid-perhaps-a-little-crazy-kill-a-guy-in-his-sleep character I remember reading about in the play. Maybe it's his sense of honor, however skewed? I think that this is especially interesting, considering you were most familiar with Shakespeare's Macbeth, who DID kill Duncan in his sleep, that the show's Macbeth wouldn't stoop so low to attack the gargoyles while they were sleeping....Was this intentional? At the time, even though you were only familiar with Shakespeare's Macbeth, did you have any plans to make Macbeth more like his Shakespearian counterpart, or did you already know from the beginning that he would be different?
I hope you don't get sick of people thanking you for Gargoyles, because I'm thanking you right now. I love it, and I admire your talents as a storyteller and your dedication. You're so wonderful to the fans. Spider-Man is also great right now. I can't wait to see what happens in the future, in both series. Thanks!
I knew we wanted to explore Macbeth's character more -- beyond that, I have to say it's been so long, I can't quite remember every aspect of my thought process (let alone anyone else's like Michael Reaves).
I haven't had a chance to get to my comic store yet, but they're holding a copy of Clan Building Volume One for me.
I was watching City of Stone last night and I was wondering something. How close were Demona and Macbeth before she betrayed him? Was she his best friend? Was he hers? Did Demona consider him as close to her as her clan? Or am I seeing something that;s not there, and were they just allies?
Thank you for answering my questions.
They were allies, but I think they truly valued each other.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
"Dominique Destine" marries "Lennox Macbeth". But as the sun sets, Macbeth learns the truth when Dominique transforms back into Demona. She quickly renders him unconscious. But when Thailog arrives, he secretly helps Macbeth escape. His plan is for Macbeth and Demona to kill each other so that he will inherit both their fortunes. Elisa Maza intervenes by temporarily "killing" both of them. Demona flees with Thailog, but Macbeth and the gargoyles declare a truce. Later, Elisa and the gargoyles take the skiff back to Avalon.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Hudson and Demona turn to stone mid-battle. When the sun sets, Goliath awakens healed. Demona is forced to flee.
Elisa Maza and the gargoyles arrive in Paris during the day. Elisa starts to call her parents, but when she spots Macbeth and Demona together, she follows them to Macbeth's Chateau. Then she follows Demona to Notre Dame Cathedral, where she loses her trail. After sundown, she rejoins the gargoyles and fills them in. Goliath attempts to confront Demona at the Cathedral and is surprised to find her allied (and apparently in love) with Thailog. Angela overhears their confrontation and realizes that Demona is her biological mother. Goliath and his friends depart. Demona informs Thailog that she has successfully set up their new international corporation: Nightstone Unlimited, owned and operated by Dominique Destine and "Alexander" Thailog.
This is a screenshot from "The Mirror":
Was this supposed to be Macbeth or is the similiar appearence simply a coincidence?
Can you give us some clarification on what is going on with Macbeth's coronation in "The Rock" versus "City of Stone". Is this a retcon or did both scenes happen?
I'm going to say BOTH happened. Yeah...
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Dominique Destine has an "accidental" encounter with Lennox Macbeth.
So macbeth was responsible for the theft of the stone of destiny in 50s, what made him return it? On the other hand that seems to be a common practice for immortal scotsmen, being responsible for the theft of the stone that is, since the Highlander show had an entire episode devoted to that little endeavor.
Perhaps the answer is forthcoming...
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth begins reconstruction of his mansion.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth attacks the gargoyles at the Eyrie Building, capturing Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx. Elisa Maza, who is largely recovered but still on crutches from being shot, again tries to convince Goliath to leave the castle. He won't listen, but after Goliath departs to find the others, she manages to convince Hudson and Broadway that the castle is no longer their home. They take the Grimorum Arcanorum from Owen Burnett and leave the castle. Meanwhile, Bronx escapes and leads Goliath back to Macbeth's mansion. Macbeth and Goliath battle, Macbeth revealing that his true target is Demona. Macbeth's mansion is damaged by fire, and the gargoyles escape.
The travelers depart Avalon again, arriving on Queen Florence Island off the west coast of Canada, where they immediately encounter Grandmother in the form of a Sea Monster. Elisa is separated from the others and washes ashore, where she is found by Grandmother and Natsilane, the chief of the local Haida band. Elisa is alive, but gravely ill. Grandmother helps heal her. That night, Goliath, Angela and Bronx encounter Raven posing as a gargoyle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Westminster Abbey, built by Edward the Confessor, is consecrated.
David Xanatos, who is scheduled to be released from jail in one week, is contacted by Macbeth, who offers to rid the castle of gargoyles.
Goliath and Tom the Guardian meet at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. Together with Elisa Maza and Bronx, they depart for Avalon, where they are introduced to the grown hatchlings of the Wyvern Clan, including Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca, and reunited with the Magus and Princess Katharine. Meanwhile, a recently transformed Archmage travels back in time...
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
William the Conqueror is crowned King of England.
The Stone of Destiny is stolen from Westminster Abbey by Macbeth and four Scottish patriots.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Broadway and Brooklyn manage to lead "Macbeth" away from "Hudson", but Broadway is caught mid-air when sunrise causes him to turn to stone. Elisa Maza barely manages to save him. After the sun sets again, "Macbeth" destroys "Hudson", and a grief-stricken Goliath destroys what is revealed to be a Macbeth robot. Back at the castle, the real Hudson escapes David Xanatos on his own and is reunited with his clan. Owen Burnett tests the Cauldron of Life, which turns one of his hands permanently to stone.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just before dawn, the gargoyles are attacked by "Macbeth". After sunrise, David Xanatos kidnaps Hudson's sleeping body and replaces it with a stone statue. At sundown, the other gargoyles awaken and believe that Macbeth has used sorcery to keep Hudson asleep. Goliath & Lexington search for a cure, while Brooklyn & Broadway protect the statue from "Macbeth". Meanwhile, Xanatos reveals that in his bid for immortality, he plans to use Hudson to test the Cauldron of Life. And on Avalon, the Archmages and their allies launch their attack on the Avalon Clan.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The two Archmages reunite outside Avalon with the Weird Sisters, who have brought Demona, Macbeth, the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and The Grimorum Arcanorum. The three talismans are given to the "younger" of the two Archmages, and he is transformed into a double of his future self. They enter Avalon and prepare to attack its inhabitants.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
After another shift, Elisa returns to the Clock Tower just before sunrise, where she's confronted by Demona and witnesses her change into a human being. Demona challenges Elisa to save the gargoyles. Meeting the challenge, Elisa shows up at Belvedere Castle at high noon to confront the trio of villains. Elisa fights the human Demona, while Othello and Desdemona internally challenge Iago. Othello wins control of Coldstone's body and turns against Macbeth, who is forced to flee with Demona. Coldstone, fearing for the safety of his clanmates as long as Iago exists within him, departs Manhattan. Back at Macbeth's mansion, the Weird Sisters reassert their control over Macbeth and Demona, revealing that they were behind the theft of the three magical objects.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa Maza uses the spell from the Grimorum Arcanorum to -- for all intents and purposes -- free Goliath's mind.
At dawn, after a long night on duty, Elisa follows Macbeth and a human Demona up to the Clock Tower. They knock her out and steal Coldstone, in order to distract the clan from realizing that they've also stolen the Eye of Odin, the Grimorum and the Phoenix Gate. At sundown, Demona transforms back into a gargoyle and reawakens Coldstone with the evil Iago personality in control. Meanwhile, Elisa fills in the gargoyles, who sneak into Macbeth's mansion to recover Coldstone - only to be betrayed and captured. Meanwhile, Tony Dracon is released on bail and begins tightening his grip on the protection racket in Manhattan.
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King Canute of England dies, widowing Emma for the second time. He is succeeded by Harold Harefoot, his son by his first wife Elfgiva .
Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out of jail soon. (In order to make a point, she exaggerates and says he'll be out in a month, when in fact it's closer to two.) Brooklyn steals the Grimorum Arcanorum for Demona. Then he lures Goliath to the Cloisters, where Demona casts a spell on Goliath that enslaves him to her will. Brooklyn realizes his error and takes control of Goliath away from her. Demona manages to get away with a few pages from the Grimorum.
Xanatos, his Steel Clan Robots and the gargoyles depart the castle wearing packs that will distribute a harmless gas that can be ignited to make it look like the sky is on fire. After they leave, Demona reveals her presence. Demona attempts to sabotage Xanatos' plan, but Macbeth confronts Demona, determined to end both their lives. Xanatos and Goliath return to see the Weird Sisters disable both Demona and Macbeth and depart with them. The sky is set ablaze, and the humans are freed from the spell just before the sun rises on a new day.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Lex finishes fixing the motorcycle, and Brooklyn takes it for a ride. He is attacked by a motorcycle gang that destroys the bike. Demona comes to his aid and convinces him that humans are a danger to the clan. He agrees to help her make Goliath see the truth through magic. Xanatos' jail sentence is officially recorded. It immediately becomes clear to Elisa that he will only have to serve half of his sentence, after time off for good behavior. Elisa finds a good home for the gargoyles in the Clock Tower above her precinct house.
Everyone converges at PackMedia Studios. Xanatos puts an end to the broadcast, but the spell is still in force. Macbeth attacks Demona, but she escapes. Goliath and Xanatos agree to team up to defeat Demona and end the spell. At dawn, the gargoyles all turn to stone. At the same time, the transformed humans become flesh again, without any memory of what had happened to them. Owen informs Xanatos that they need to set the sky on fire to break the spell. They begin preparations to do just that. When Elisa learns that the broadcast originated at the Xanatos-owned PackMedia Studios, she confronts Owen at the Eyrie Building. Both turn to stone at sundown. Shortly thereafter, the gargoyles arrive.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth sees enough of the broadcast to realize what Demona is up to. Elisa goes to the Clock Tower to wait for the gargoyles to awaken. At sundown, Owen, Fox and Elisa (as well as most of the humans in Manhattan) turn to stone. The gargoyles awaken at sundown and discover Elisa and the other stone humans. (Thailog also awakens at sundown. With no one at the castle to warn him, he watches Demona's spell on television and immediately turns to stone. He will remain stone in the television room, 24 hours a day until the spell is broken. But he has had his first exposure to Demona.) The gargoyles stop at Robbins' house. Being blind, he was unaffected by Demona's spell. They begin to search the city for Demona, who's on a killing spree, destroying stone humans in the streets. Separately, Macbeth and Xanatos also seek Demona.
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With issue six, we finally got to read one of your Untold Tales for Gargoyles. Some others that I've heard about on Ask Greg:
1. You never gave a title, but this was set in New York during The Avalon World Tour. You mentioned that this story had Xanatos taking advantage of Goliath's absence.
2. Hobgoblins Of Little Minds.
3. The Weird Macbeth.
4. Arthur's adventure between Avalon Part Three and Pendragon.
5. The Multitrickster story.
Aside from those five, are there any other stories that you planned for the first two season, but never got to? Not asking for spoilers, just a yes or a no. I'll understand if you don't want to answer though.
Well, saying I "planned them for the first two seasons" isn't really accurate for ANY of the above, including 3 and 5, which we considered doing in season two. But I have other stories from that era like 1 and 4 that I can/will tell some day. But 2, 3 and 5 haven't happenned yet in the continuity.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos acquires the Cauldron of Life and prepares to test it by ordering the construction of a pair of Macbeth robots and a statue of Hudson. He also begins looking for a sword that will match Hudson's to be used with the statue.
Relieving Talon, Goliath takes his shift guarding the Labyrinth prisoners. Thailog busts Demona and Fang out. Talon and Goliath pursue them to Coney Island. Goliath departs and quickly returns with Angela, the Trio and Hudson. All are captured by Fang, Demona, Thailog and his clones: Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank (made from the DNA of Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn and Hudson, respectively).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hudson washes ashore and is helped by author Jeffrey Robbins. Robbins realizes Hudson is illiterate and convinces him that he isn't too old to learn to read. After sunrise, Macbeth finds Hudson frozen in stone outside Robbins' place. Macbeth takes the scroll. The gargoyles attack Macbeth's Mansion to rescue Broadway and recover the Scrolls. But Macbeth loses interest in the Scrolls when he discovers they aren't Merlin's spellbooks. He allows the gargoyles to depart with them. Goliath returns the Scrolls to Elisa, who delivers them to the Museum. Hudson and Broadway immediately begin learning to read. Robbins starts work on a new book, The Sword and the Staff: A Book of Merlin.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Scrolls of Merlin are being transported aboard the H.M.S. Churchill en route to the Metropolitan Museum in New York when they are stolen by Macbeth's minions. The gargoyles intercede. Hudson recovers one of the Scrolls but falls into the ocean. Broadway tries to get the other scroll, but Macbeth captures him.
Autumnal Equinox: Artus conceived.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Coldstone eventually winds up standing comatose in a storage room in the Clock Tower. Xanatos gets possession of R.E.C.A.P.'s remains, including the computer virus. Macbeth has a new Hunter's mask made for himself, but is distracted from his hunt for Demona by the anticipated arrival of The Scrolls of Merlin.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Demona is injured slightly while practicing sorcery. Macbeth, in the general vicinity, feels her pain and immediately realizes that she is somewhere in Manhattan.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth's forces are defeated. Thorfinn is killed at Dunsinane, widowing his young wife Ingibjorg. Canmore destroys all of Demona's gargoyles, except her. Canmore pursues Macbeth to Lunfanan, and history will record that Macbeth was killed there. But Macbeth and Demona discover a side effect of the Weird Sisters' spell. They are immortal and forever linked, feeling each other's pain when near. For either to die, one must kill the other. Prince Luach is able to rally his father's forces temporarily. Canmore is driven back. Luach is made High King of Scotland. Macbeth and Demona vanish severally into myth.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
With help from Demona and his cousin Thorfinn, Macbeth defeats Duncan's forces at the battle of Bothgoanan, near the town of Elgin in Moray, Scotland. Duncan is killed near Elgin. An unpopular king, he is not mourned by many. Duncan's son Canmore is banished and spirited away to England by Duncan's few remaining supporters. Canmore will become a protégé of Edward the Confessor, a Saxon. But he also becomes the new Hunter. For his own safety, Donald Ban is spirited away to Ireland.
Vinnie visits family.
You've said before that Macbeth has had other loves between Gruoch and Domique Destine, but let me ask, is Gruoch still his true love? What I mean is has he ever loved another woman as much as her? Has he ever loved someone more? Does he still miss her and think of her on a regular basis? It seemed to me given his actions in City of Stone that he may have been so in love with her that he would, after a thousand years, stil carry a torch for her.
Also, I know you will probably not answer if Macbeth has had any other children, but if he capable of doing so? What about Demona?
Thank you for taking the time ti answer my questions, and for never giving up on Gargoyles. The new comic is fantastic, and I hope it goes on for many years to come.
I think Macbeth does still carry a torch for Gruoch.
I see no reason why he or Demona would not be physically capable of having kids.
1) Does Demona blame the Captain for the Wyvern Massacre, or just Goliath for not taking the other gargoyles out like their plan was?
2) What would have happened if Demona had never overheard Macbeth and Bodhe's conversation about betraying the gargoyles to the English, or if she did overhear but Macbeth had defended the gargoyles to Bodhe?
1. She has plenty of blame to spread around.
2. Lots of stuff.
By the time of Gargoyles 2198, what will Demona and Macbeth's relationship be? By that I mean: Will they still hate eachothers guts, or will their relationship be more aimiable in nature?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Arthur encounters Griff and the Stone of Destiny at Westminster Abbey. The Stone transports Arthur and Griff to Manhattan, where Macbeth is waiting. Macbeth is temporarily forced to flee when Hudson and the Trio intervene. The four Manhattan gargoyles join forces with Arthur and Griff to help Arthur find Excalibur. In Central Park, they encounter the Lady of the Lake, who gives them another clue to the sword's whereabouts. But Macbeth uses a Will-o-the-Wisp to listen in. He becomes determined to find Excalibur first. The quest takes them all to the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, where Macbeth accidentally brings a giant stone dragon to life by removing a copy of Excalibur from its grip. Arthur destroys the dragon and finds the true Excalibur inside the stone beast. Macbeth swears allegiance to Arthur. Just before sunrise, Arthur knights Griff. And after the sun sets, Arthur and Griff depart on a new quest - to find Merlin. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx also depart Avalon and are drawn to Norway by the power of Odin, who appears to them in the form of an old man and tries to get Goliath to trade the Eye of Odin for a coat to keep Elisa warm. Elisa and Goliath agree to pass on his offer. But Elisa is on the verge of hypothermia. She takes shelter with local farmer Erik Sturluson and his son Gunther.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In Manhattan, Macbeth and his flunkies, Banquo and Fleance, prepare for the Harmonic Convergence. And on Avalon, King Arthur decides to leave in order to find Excalibur. He arrives in London.
2 - In the gargoyle version of macbeth retold via City of Stone flashbacks, why is it that the character of hecate seen in the original play was never featured?
What role would she have played?
I was hesitant about making this comment for a while, since I was afraid that it might be read as an idea. But I finally decided (especially since it only uses information directly from "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time") that it was probably safe.
You mentioned in your ramble on "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" that the significance of the inscription on the chest containing Merlin's Scrolls, "The seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear; the destroyer everything" was that the chest was magically warded so that anybody intending to destroy the Scrolls in the manner of Hakon burning pages from the Grimorium Arcanorum would apparently have met an unpleasant fate (and that it was a good thing for Morwood-Smythe and Duane that they were seekers of knowledge). But I found myself seeing another significance to those words beside that.
Macbeth's purpose in stealing the Scrolls was to use the magic that he believed was in them for his own purposes, apparently as part of his hunt for Demona. Goliath clearly feared that others would be after Merlin's magic for the same reason (such as Xanatos - and indeed, we've seen at least two other magic-workers in the series who would have no doubt been eager to exploit the spells that Merlin's Scrolls were thought to contain for their own dark ends). I believe that you could term anyone seeking to put the Scrolls to such use a "destroyer".
But it turns out that the Scrolls are of no value to a "destroyer" in that sense, but only to the "seeker of knowledge" - for what they contain is not Merlin's spells but his memoirs about his life and his tutoring the young King Arthur. Such information seemed useless to Macbeth, but a "seeker of knowledge" would indeed have found them invaluable - an eye-witness account of King Arthur's times, written by Merlin himself! So indeed, in a different sense than you mentioned in the ramble, the search for the Scrolls of Merlin would only be rewarding to the "seeker of knowledge" and not to the "destroyer".
I like that analysis... and it fits in with plans I have. Stay tuned...
Here is a question I've been meaning to ask you for a long time.
Demona and Macbeth's link implies that they will basically live eternally until one kills the other. However, I wonder - does that not mean that they can still be maimed, crippled, or permanently physically disabled? Mentally damaged? They seem to have survived things that should have been fatal, and because of the enchantment it is acceptable that they survive. But why not even sustain serious injury? On top of surviving, will their bodies always be restored to a state of full health?
Additionally, gotta say that I'm loving the comic book! I'm not going to say a lot about it here, because I'm sending a letter through the snail mail, but just gotta let you know that it's good to be back in the Gargoyles' universe!
Thanks. It's good to be back for me too.
I've answered your question MANY times before. Which is to say, I can't answer it. They've never been maimed, etc. So how would I know?
Why did Macbeth allow Banquo and Fleance to fight (and possibly kill, since he surely knew their attitudes towards gargoyles) Goliath's clan members right after Goliath and co. saved his life? You've always seemed baffled that some people considered Pendragon to be an out-of-character episode for Macbeth. I've never understood that. He's just plain spiteful towards Arthur, seems on pretty bitter terms with Goliath's clan (he even refers to them as "my enemies," etc...
Well, let's just agree to disagree.
Is Macbeth still wealthy by 2198?
Is Demona still wealthy by 2198?
I'm not revealing this information at this time.
Does being aged physically from 35 to 52 have much of an effect on Macbeth? He seems to be in incredible shape for his physical age, much better than that of someone younger.
He's in great shape. 52 is the new 42, I'm told.
Who does Demona hate most: Goliath, Macbeth, or Elisa?
I feel like I've answered this already. But even if I haven't... Why quantify something unquantifiable.
But if I had to guess, I'd say Elisa.
In COS part four, Luna tells Macbeth "And thus you both shall live, eternally linked, sharing each others pain and anguish. With no release until one destroys the other. Only then shall both finally perish, together. What she making a prophesy of what would occur, or was she just stating the rules of their link?
You said on the COS dvd commentary, when Demona swings Macbeth around, "I think she's just a little bit in love with him there." While I don't think it was an strong romantic love, I do think she was much more affectionate towards him than she would have been to someone else. We never see her that friendly towards anyone else she's not romantically involved with, not even her own clan members. My question is, was she aware of it? Was he? Was Gruoch? >=)
No. Not really. No comment.
Why hadn't Macbeth and Gruoch gotten married by 1032? They were 27 years old by the time she was betrothed to Gillecomgain. Why didn't they marry before that?
He had NO prospects. And Duncan probably wouldn't give permission (as both were of the royal blood). The fact that both were still unmarried to anyone else at the advanced age of 27, I think is an indication of how much they were in love.
Was Macbeth genuinely in love (not just smitten) with Dominique? I only ask this because he had known her for such a short time, and even then knew very little about her.
I believe I'll let the story stand on its own without my commentary. You can evaluate for yourself.
Someone asked if Macbeth had ever been married to anyone other than Gruoch and Dominique, and you said "Maybe, but not often." Why not? Why didn't he get married more often?
It's painful to survive one's loved ones. It takes powerful incentives to overcome the natural resistance to get that close to someone.
You've said that Macbeth sometimes works as a stage actor. In what sort of productions? How well does he get along with taking orders from the directors? =)
He's done some Shakespeare, certainly. Probably other stuff as well. Maybe some Stoppard or Shaw. I could definitely see him doing some Shaw.
And I'm sure he got along just fine with the directors. He's not a prima dona or anything.
What was Macbeth's relationship with Gillecomgain like after Gillecomgain became the High Steward of Moray?
What was Macbeth's relationship with Bodhe like after he became King in 1040? By 1057, neither he nor Luach seemed particularly fond of him.
I think they were FOND of him, actually. Doesn't mean they agreed with him much.
How was Demona able to get Macbeth to marry her in such a short time? He only knew 'Dominique' for less than a month, according to the dates you've given.
How do YOU think?
You said that, besides pain, pleasure also passes between Macbeth and Demona. Why would the Weird Sisters toss that in? Doesn't it creep Mac and D out a bit?
For that matter, when did they first find out about that? It must've been a pretty shocking experience.
Your premise is faulty. You make it sound like the Weird Sisters made a choice. No one has definitively stated that. They made a link.
As to Mac & D's reaction, etc., I'm not revealing that now.
Did any of the historical events of Macbeth's reign also occur in the Gargoyles universe? For instance, his war with Duncan's father, Crinan, his pilgrimage to Rome, etc...
Yes. All or nearly all.
Why did Macbeth have Banquo and Fleance as best man and maid of honor at his wedding? He doesn't seem to like them, and the feeling seems to be mutual. So why did he bring them all the way to Paris for his wedding?
They were his employees. They didn't come for the wedding. They came to serve his needs, whatever his needs might be.
Why did Macbeth want the Scrolls of Merlin? That was never answered in the episode Lighthouse in a Sea of Time.
Yes, it was, actually. He thought they'd contain powerful magical spells... useful (potentially) in his conflict with/hunt for Demona.
What was the relationship between Macbeth and Duncan like during the eight years that Duncan was king? By 1040, he seemed to trust Macbeth enough to go walking with him and his son.
Macbeth tried to demonstrate his loyalty. Duncan always regarded these attempts with suspicion.
You answered, when asked if Macbeth and Demona share emotional pain, "Metaphorically." I didn't quite understand that. Could you explain in greater detail?
Where did Macbeth go when he fled Scotland in 1057? Did he ever return?
I'm not answering the former at this time. But, yes, he has been back to Scotland since 1057.
Did Macbeth really die when Canmore stabbed him? The Weird Sisters said to Demona that "though the pain is great, child, you are unharmed." Were she and Macbeth alive, but in pain, when Canmore declared himself victorious?
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Can Demona or Macbeth sustain permanent damage? Like scars, lost limbs, etc... They're in impeccable shape for people who've been, as you said in one answer, "stabbed, shot, etc."
The question isn't can they, but HAVE they.
Does Demona still think that Macbeth was planning to betray her in 1057?
What was Macbeth and Demona's relationship like when he was king? How well did they get along?
What do Macbeth and Demona think of that golden age during his reign as king?
Macbeth probably sees it as a glorious time, capped by betrayal.
Demona probably sees it as part of an elaborate scheme to lull her into a false sense of security.
Does Demona know that Macbeth is no longer actively hunting her?
Are you so sure he's not?
How did Canmore find out about Macbeth and Demona's link? How did those rumors get started?
Think about it. Macbeth ages nearly twenty years in one night and suddenly has a gargoyle ally... Plus a few people knew about the "bargain" including Bodhe. Word was bound to get around. Not necessarily accurate word. But word.
Did Demona's low opinion of humans change at all during Macbeth's golden age of rule? She and her clan's treatment was very different from what it had been before, and his reign is the only time we ever see Demona truly happy and content.
I think it did -- at least briefly but certainly superficially.
What did Macbeth's subjects think of him aging suddenly from 35 to 52 overnight? Did he ever give an explanation for the change?
I'm sure he made a point NOT to give an explanation, and I'm sure everyone assumed the truth, i.e. sorcery.
Did Macbeth have any advisors other than Demona? If so, how well did they get along with Demona?
Clearly, he had Bodhe, who was probably afraid of Demona. But I'm sure he had others, and some would have gotten along with her better than others did. But I tend to think that Demona reported directly (and to some extent privately) with Macbeth, limiting her "camaradery" with the rest of his "staff".
What's Macbeth opinion about Gargoyles as a species?
See issue #2 of the comic for a fairly good idea.
The Scottish people seemed pretty hateful/fearful towards gargoyles before Macbeth's reign. How was he able to change opinions and get people to accept Demona and her clan?
Winners tend to get to make the rules. And the gargoyles helped the winning side win. So that went a LONG way toward reducing more OVERT prejudice.
Does Macbeth have any close friends? If so, do any of them know who he really is?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
Who came up with the idea for the Paris scheme against Macbeth? Thailog or Demona?
Is Macbeth conciously aware of how much his morals have changed since his youth? He does things in the present that he would never have done when he was young (attacking innocents to trap an enemy, theft, etc...) If he does realize how much he's changed, how does he feel about it?
I'll leave that to audience interpretation, I think.
Why didn't Goliath and co. (when they were in Paris) tell Macbeth about the Weird Sisters controlling him and Demona? Even if only to prevent him from being susceptible to their manipulations again.
How do you know they didn't?
What was Macbeth's position in WWII? We know he fought in it, but from what angle? Was he in the British or American militaries? Did he fight independently? Other?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
You've said that Macbeth doesn't get involved after the Space Spawn invade Earth in 2198, until some time later. Why? Surely he wouldn't just ignore his planet being taken over. He fought in WWII. Why would he stay out of this far more important war?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
Macbeth said to King Arthur that he was too long a king to serve another. Does this mean that he's never served or worked for anyone post-1057?
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that.
You've hinted that Luach was conceived during the time that Gruoch was married to Gillecomgain, with Macbeth being the father. Why would he and Gruoch take such a risk? He gave her up for her own safety... committing adultery would probably have resulted in her execution.
Yep. So why would they take the risk?
The only answer I have is... why do you think?
Just to be clear, I'd like to make the point that I haven't "hinted" that Luach was conceived during Gruoch's marriage to Gillecomgain. Luach was definitely conceived during that time. I have suggested that PERHAPS Macbeth was the biological father, but that neither Gruoch or Macbeth know for sure.
im asking about the famous line of lady mcbeth one of shakespeare's charater which starts with "blood, blood, blood"
What about it?
I've never asked a question here before, probably because I didn't have the patience to wait, but I just wrote this analysis of Demona and Macbeth's link for the GFW website, and I wanted to see what you thought of it. Am I on the right track?
Curses and Prophecies, Fate and Freewill
(Warning: This essay contains minor spoilers for Harry Potter books five and six. It's mostly about Gargoyles, so if you don't read HP you'll still understand this, but if you plan to read them soon, you may wish to stop reading now.)
Like most people reading this, Gargoyles had a major impact on my life. For me, the best it ever got was City of Stone. In fact, I would say that CoS was one of the highlights of my childhood. I still distinctly remember, when I was twelve years old, reaching the end of Part Three, seeing Demona advancing on stone Elisa with a mace, and then the words "To be Concluded." "You're telling me I have to wait a whole day to see what happens? I'm supposed to go to school? Screw that, I want to know how Elisa survives!" I've thought long and hard about CoS, and the key to it is the relationship between Demona and Macbeth. In fact, I think the Weird Sisters' spellcasting is, from a classical sense, the climax of the entire story. On the surface, the spell seems simple enough: Demona and Macbeth are linked so they feel each others' pain, and they will live forever. If someone were to kill one of them, (s)he would die and then quickly come back to life. If one of them were to kill the other, though, then they would both die. As I say, it seems simple. After reading Greg Weisman's numerous responses on the subject, I began to think about whether there was more to it than meets the eye, and it slowly dawned on me that it was much more subtle, deep, and brilliant than I'd ever considered.
For years, Greg has received questions like "What would happen if Macbeth got his head cut off? Would it reattach itself? Would it grow back immediately?" He has always answered something like, "Well, that hasn't happened, has it?" At first glance, that seems like just a weak cop out, with Greg trying to avoid a question he has no good answer to. In fact, he seemed to get pretty flustered at the way people kept projecting Highlander concepts onto Macbeth, which was probably inevitable given that they're both immortal Scottish nobles. Unlike Highlander, though, there are no explicitly stated rules as to how immortality works; all we have to go on are the Weird Sisters' words, and they clearly are not the most trustworthy or forthcoming of people. Remember that Luna is supposedly a representative of fate, and then think about the fact that the spell doesn't really talk about "what if this or that happened," but rather "what will happen." The final words of Luna to Macbeth in the past were that "you both shall live, eternally linked, sharing each other's pain and anguish, with no release until one destroys the other. Only then shall both finally perish together." From that, it's clear that the Sisters are not interested in playing hypotheticals about all the different ways things could happen: they simply pronounced what will happen. Rather than the spell being simply a safeguard against their dying, it could instead be thought of as a prophecy declaring quite simply what will happen to them in the future.
It turns out that at no point in the entire series do we see anything happen to either Demona or Macbeth that would be sure to kill them. In fact, there are only two times it really seems likely that one of them could die. The first is when Macbeth was stabbed in the back by Canmore- painful, to be sure, but not necessarily lethal. Certainly there are those who have survived a poorly aimed stab. The second is when Elisa shot Demona with Macbeth's electric gun. That one seems even less likely, as about three gargoyles get shot with one of those things in any given Macbeth episode. One might make a case that the roller coaster collapse in The Reckoning was potentially lethal, but that falls under the old comicbook rule of "if you don't see the body, the guy's not dead," and the fact that we know Thailog survived as well makes it clear that magic was not necessary to live through that incident. So, we have established that we have never seen anything unquestionably fatal befall Demona or Macbeth. Furthermore, Greg has told us that no such thing has ever happened. Knowing that, it follows that it is meaningless to ask what if such a thing were to happen- it hasn't! Such speculation is what is known logically as a vacuous proof: If A occurs, then B occurs, given that A is an impossible event. Consider the statement "All pink elephants can fly," or, more precisely, "If A is a pink elephant, then A can fly." This statement is absolutely true, since every pink elephant in the world can fly- there are none, so anything you can say about them is true. A simpler way of thinking about it, though less rigorous, is that the statement "all pink elephants can fly" could never be disproved, since to do so one would have to find a pink elephant that could not fly, which can never be done. It is equally true that every pink elephant cannot fly. What this means, then, is there's no point asking "what if Demona or Macbeth were beheaded" if it cannot happen- it's true that if Macbeth were beheaded, he'd die, and it's true that if he were beheaded, he would be revived, and it's true that if he were beheaded, they'd both die, etc. All of those statements are true, because they are all based on an impossible hypothetical.
So let us then accept that neither of them has ever been beheaded. That still doesn't prove that neither of them could ever be beheaded, in which case it would still be relevant to ask what would happen. To answer that, it's worth thinking of the Weird Sisters' pronouncement as a prophecy rather than a spell. Suppose we think of the Macbeth/Demona connection in these terms: The spell allows them long life and they share each others' pain. Since they share pain, if one of them were killed, then the other would die too. Then we see that what Luna meant by saying that they would live on until one destroys the other is not that they are somehow magically protected from injury, but simply that she was predicting what would happen, as an avatar of fate. Such a prophecy brings Harry Potter to mind. When Harry was an infant, a prophecy was made which roughly stated that either he would kill Voldemort or Voldemort would kill him. That prophecy was overheard and found its way back to Voldemort, who immediately acted on it by attempting to kill Harry and fulfill it in a way favorable to him. In so doing, he nearly destroyed himself and gave Harry powers that would enable him to finish Voldemort once and for all. Moreover, he gave Harry a desire to end Voldemort. Harry lost his parents and knew first hand the sort of pain Voldemort inflicted on others, and so he would not rest until Voldemort was finished. On the other hand, Voldemort believed in the prophecy, and thus saw Harry as the greatest danger to him, so he would not rest until Harry was dead. So the result was that the two enemies were both determined to kill each other. As such, it was inevitable that one of them would eventually succeed, and the prophecy would be proven true. However, it was not true because of some incomprehensible hand of fate hovering over them, but rather it was based on simple extrapolations from the subjects' characters, and the fact that they knew about the prophecy (fittingly enough, Rowling has acknowledged Shakespeare's Macbeth as an inspiration for the prophecy).
The same can apply to Demona and Macbeth. At the time of the spell's casting, they were already great warriors, and with unlimited time to practice, they would become even greater. So it is highly unlikely that anyone else would kill them. Yet based on the events of their falling out, an intense hatred blossomed between them, one that would keep them hunting each other and make it inevitable that one would eventually kill the other. And since Macbeth heard the Weird Sisters' pronouncement, he believed that he could not die without killing Demona. It never would have even occurred to him to jump off a tall building and see what happened, because he believed that it would fail. Thus, the prophecy has the added bonus of controlling any possible suicidal tendencies Demona or Macbeth might develop by telling them it's impossible to kill themselves, since while Luna's side of their personality may simply be prophesying, Selene's needs them to survive for their future plans. Plus, even if Macbeth thought it would work, he probably would still feel the need to settle the score with Demona first. With all of that in mind, it is not hard for the avatar of fate to predict that one of them will end up killing the other, and the fact that she makes the prediction helps it to occur.
The question then is this: Is there a difference between saying something cannot happen and saying it will not happen? Suppose a man plans to stay home one day. Can we then say that it is impossible that he will get in his car and drive to another state that day? Let's say it's early in the morning, so he's got plenty of time. He's got a full tank of gas. He's not in Alaska or Hawaii, so there are connecting states he could go to. However, he has no desire at all to do so. Without that desire, it simply will not happen. We can then say that it is impossible. Now the obvious objection is that one never knows for sure what might happen, and if an emergency came up, he might have to leave the state that very day. For that reason, we distinguish between what can happen and what will happen- something can happen if it would happen provided the will to do it existed. If we knew for sure that the man would choose not to leave that day, it would then be fair to say that it was impossible for him to leave. Likewise, if we know with certainty that Demona and Macbeth will not die until one destroys the other, then we can say that it is impossible for anything else to happen.
This theory may seems very complicated at first, but if you take the time to think about it, it makes more sense than most other explanations out there. Rather than rely on vague magic powers and convoluted rules of "what if Demona were smashed in the day?" this theory eliminates all of the guesswork and gives an answer without the ambiguity; one that ultimately is simple and inevitable, yet firmly in the hands of the players. By thinking of Weird Sisters' spell as a prophecy, we can help resolve the fate vs. free will argument. Luna is an embodiment of fate, and so she is able to make predictions in the future, yet they are based simply on reading the characters of the subjects. While the prophecy that Demona and Macbeth will eventually die when one kills the other is a pronouncement of fate, it is only made true because of Demona's lack of trust and irresponsibility and Macbeth's lust for vengeance. The same could be said of the prophecy that Macbeth, Lulach, and Canmore would all become king- it wasn't hard to see that Duncan's paranoia would lead to him moving against Macbeth, a confrontation which would ultimately lead to Macbeth's ascension.
But what if you paint an elephant pink? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Otherwise I DO think you're on the right track.
I just caught City of Stone on the fantastic Season 2 DVD set, and a good (or so I hope) question occurred to me. Given Macbeth's on again/off again suicidal tendencies, was he masquerading as the Hunter in the hopes that Demona would take one look at him and nail him with a bazooka? Or was he just trying to go for a more satisfying psychological advantage in a hand-to-hand fight?
Definitely the latter, subconsciously the former. Though I think he probably had a clear preference to be the one doing the killing (and dying as a result) as opposed to letting Demona kill her. He'd have settled for either (at that time). But I do think he had a preference.
Hi, my question concerns Demona and Gruoch, two of my favourite characters (One of my favourite moments in "Gargoyles" is when Demona goes completely against her prejudices and saves Macbeth and Gruoch when they're slipping from the parapet, and Gruoch's nervous little "thank you" to her afterwards). But anyway:
1. During the "Golden Age" of Macbeth's rule, how well did Gruoch and Demona get on? Or to make the question a bit more generalised, what was their relationship?
Obviously they wouldn't have been best friends, but I also can assume that as such close companions to Macbeth they would have spent a reasonable amount of time in each other's company.
2a. Would they have considered each other as a "friend"?
2b. Or was there a little bit of resentment/jealously/competition going on in terms of their separate relationships with Macbeth?
2c. Or did they just stay out of each other's way?
Thank you very much in advance for any reply you give me, I think the time and effort you put into communicating with fans is amazing! My fingers are crossed that the second half of season two will make it to DVD.
1. I'd like to explore this someday. But generally, I think they got along on the surface, but that each had a healthy suspicion of the other.
2a. Try "ally".
2b. I'm not sure I'd characterize it that way. Demona distrusts humans. Gruoch distrusted Demona.
I was just wondering: you've mentioned that you had two more loves planned for Demona. As far as MacBeth is concerned, did you have any loves planned for him? I've read through the archives, and maybe I missed it, but you mentioned that MacBeth did have other marraiges, but not often. Were there any that we would find out about between 1996 and 2198 (aside from "Dominique")?
Dear Mr. Weisman-
I was wondering if you could clarify how William Shakespeare fits into the Gargoyle universe. Was he aware of the Third Race in some regard, or was he just a very talented writer whose stories were closer to truth than fiction?
Thank you for your time, and for your creation.
Will's place in our world is a story I've yet to tell, but want to tell -- eventually in the comic book. So I'm not going to spell it out here, other than to reiterate what I've already revealed: i.e. that Macbeth was a friend to Will, though Will never knew that Macbeth was MACBETH.
And, oh, yes, Will wrote his plays.
"31. What is the extent of the sensations that can be felt between Demona and Macbeth via their link? Can they feel other things besides pain?
Simple touching doesn't pass from one to the other. Intense feelings of pain and pleasure would."
So if the happened to have sex, it would be some sort of transfering chain re-action of pleasure?
I searched the archives, but I may have missed the answer...
Given his suicidal tendencies, why does Macbeth bother to put up such a fight against Demona at the end? As he opens his secret stash of weapons before the final battle, he says something like "Demona, it ends tonight." He's had 900 years to think about his situation, so it struck me as odd that he temporarily seems to forget that he can effectively kill Demona by letting her kill *him*. Why does he bother to jump out of the way of her shots? And why does he have such a quick change of heart after Elisa "kills" Demona?
P.S. Thanks so much for continuing to answer questions. Gargoyles was an amazing creation. I hope you feel some pride in the accomplishment. (I'm 31, and every time I watch an episode, I'm amazed at how well the whole story ties together. Truly great work. Thanks!)
I think Macbeth has seen in the past that Demona is not as consciously suicidal as he sometimes (and I emphasize "sometimes") is. He couldn't count on her being willing to kill him, since she knows that would result in her own death. In fact the best way to get Demona to gun for him is for him to gun for her and raise her anger to overcome her reason.
Plus, let's be honest, the guy is pissed off and humiliated and he'd like a bit of payback on his way out the door. His preference: he kills her, kiling them both. Just more satisfying then standing there like a target.
As for jumping out of the way... see above and also instinct. The fight or flight instinct is hard to overcome no matter how suicidal you may be. And Macbeth has always been a bit ambivalent on the subject at best.
Finally, why does he calm down? Well, a lot of the white hot anger has passed. Also, once again, he has briefly experienced death, and perhaps THAT'S not all it's cracked up to be. And Goliath's words eventually help too, I would think.
But frankly, I'll leave that for each of you to interpret.
Oh, and thanks for the kind words.
How did Demona feel about having to kiss Macbeth in "Sanctuary"?
I'm sure she told herself it was a necessary evil.
Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
IN santurary why does Macbeth have a picture of Eliza over his fire place?
It perplexed me too.
This is about Demona and MacBeth. Let's say Demona's wing's or tail were injured. Would Macbeth still feel the pain even though he dosen't have them or would he not feel it at all. If he di where??
Good question. If the pain extended (for example) from wing down into the shoulder, he'd certainly feel it. Otherwise, I guess it would be very distant -- like phantom pain, maybe.
It's been a while since I asked a question here. Just couldn't think of an original question, but here some questions about Macbeth:
1. He did the best to defend the Gargoyles on Nightwatch on the Journey, so would he be more of an ally, enemy or neutral?
2. Would he play more of a role on Gargoyles or Pendragon?
3. Any plans for him to meet John Castaway (Canmore)?
1. I think at this point, he's more of an ally.
2. Hard to say in a hypothetical vacuum. He could be significant in both. He's not going to become a regular in either in the short term.
Hi Greg. I started watching Gargoyles on Toon Disney over my younger sisters shoulder a few weeks ago and haven't stopped since. Alas I've discovered that Toon Disney are only showing about half the total number of episodes, so there are probably gaping holes in my understanding of the overall theme (I get the impression there is one - correct me if I'm wrong;-).
First off, very well done. I'm very impressed. Not only are they extremely well written and animated, but there is subtlety of dialogue and expression! In a Disney Cartoon? Indeed.
Secondly: just finished City of Stone. Missed part of it the first time round. There's only one thing I can say... "Oi! The tragedy!" If Demona is not one of the most cathartic characters created in the last century I don't know who is! Despite her brutal treatment of Goliath it's hard not to empathise with her, or to enjoy her episodes perhaps more than the rest (is this unhealthy?;-). Macbeth is the perfect counterpoint, another very good character and equally engaging in his own way. However, I am frustrated. I glanced down an episode list and couldn't find anything further devoted to them. How does their story conclude? I must know!
Thirdly: somewhere I posted an e-mail to a Gargoyles site and the owner told me a film had been on the cards for the last five years, but with no apparent progress. Is anything known that you could tell? I did wonder if, when the reply mentioned it might be live action, whether this might change as a result of the successes of CGI films in recent years. I wonder which would best suit the genre - CGI or live action? With CGI the original voice cast could be used, of course.
Sorry for the long message, and thanks for indulging a new initiate.
First off, as far as I know Toon Disney regularly showed EVERY episode (in order) except "Deadly Force". (And I understand they've started showing that one too.)
I'm not sure how glancing at an "episode list" (a list of titles?) would reveal anything about the contents of our episodes.
Of course, you posted this in 2002 and it's 2004 now, so I'm assuming that if you had a real interest you've seen all the eps by now. But, yes of course we did more episodes with Demona and Macbeth after City of Stone. Many more.
My latest information is that the Live-Action movie has been put on hold. After five plus years of Touchstone actively pursuing a script, they finally gave up.
while watching "The Price" tonight, something struck me for the first time: when Xanatos builds the robot to distract the Clan while he does his thing with Hudson, why does he model the robot after MacBeth? he could've modeled any number of 'villains' or even a new character, so why MacBeth?
I think he felt that Macbeth would be the perfect character for misdirection. Had he chosen Demona, there would have been a greater risk of Goliath et al figuring out that it was a robot, because they know Demona so well. And obviously, he didn't want to chose any villains (Pack members, Thailog) that Goliath would associate with him.
Plus he needed someone that Goliath would believe knew some sorcery -- in order for his con to work.
Obviously, there were other options. But his pick made sense.
Long time watcher, first time question asker, I happen to be doing a research paper for colege concerning the literary references within Gargoyles (shakespeare and mythology). I was wondering what comments you might have concerning the way which you used these works. For example, your re-telling of McBeth in city of stone parts 1-4 is very different from the play. This makes sense because the play is an altered versain of the actual historical story to make it more entertaining as well as aceptable to the king of england. As i intend on focusing a majority of my paper to Mcbeth I was wondering how you went about combining history, shakespeare, and your own storyline. If you could make any general comments or speak about mythology in any way would be greatly apriciated. I ask not only because it would help my paper, but also it would be a personal thrill to even get a responce. I've known about this site for a while, but this is the first time i've had a decent question. Lastly, I know its quite possible this has been answered before, but i have not yet read all of the entries in the archives, you are creator and producer of one of my favorite cartoons of all time, how does one find themself in that possition of creater and producer? thanx for your time
Well, unless your paper wasn't due until 2004, I guess I'm too late to help you there.
Macbeth (with an "a" and a lower case "b") the play was indeed a major influence on our version of Macbeth, but we chose to follow the less-told tale that was the true (or truer) history. But we kept the Weird Sisters in it, and even a few lines of Shakespeare where possible. Plus of course we added the gargoyle race, weaving Demona in and out of Macbeth's story. Or rather, we weaved Macbeth's story into the tapestry that is the Gargoyles' Universe.
As to my background, I'd suggest checking the FAQ and coming back here if you have more specific questions that the FAQ didn't answer.
all this Demona/Macbeth talk (we've been reviewing City of Stone and High Noon lately, we are probably somewhere around The Gathering by the time you read this, both the episode and the event) and i thought of a question:
we know that the pain shared by Demona and Macbeth has a distance factor to it, if they are far away from each other when one gets hurt, the other probably won't feel it, but i was wondering if death is like this as well? if Demona was to get shot or whatever and died, would Macbeth miles and miles away also momentarily die?
Distance mitigates the effect, but doesn't shut it off. Pain, death, whatever.
In the Gargoyles universe, you mention that Luach was the son of Macbeth and Gruoch, and born in 1033. In actual history, Luach was the son of Gillcomgain and Gruoch, and born in 1030. After Gillcomgain's death in 1032, Macbeth married Gruoch and adopted Luach as his own son and heir, and Luach even succeeded Macbeth as King briefly in 1054. I was curious as to the reasons you modified these aspects of history?
I didn't. Not to my knowledge. My research indicates that Lulach (Luach) was born in early 1033, after Gillecomgain's death, but too soon to be Macbeth's son (at least legally). We glanced over it in the episode, but, yes, Macbeth adopts Gillecomgain after marrying Gruoch in 1032.
Further, my research indicated that rumors were rampant in court that Mac was actually Lulach's biological father, as well.
It's possible the research I received was faulty. (For example, a typo caused us to spell and pronounce Lulach's name incorrectly.) But we made every effort to weave our fiction among the facts -- without changing those facts.
The date of Lulach's birth is approximate anyway. So any time between 1030 and 1033 is probably "legitimate".
When, in "City of Stone Part Two", Duncan manipulated Macbeth into seeking out Gillecomgain to avenge his father, what was he hoping the result would be:
a. That Macbeth would slay Gillecomgain, thus ridding Duncan of an increasingly unreliable and likely rebellious former ally? (The result, of course, that actually happened).
b. That Gillecomgain would slay Macbeth, Duncan's leading rival to the throne?
c. That the two of them would kill each other, thus ridding Duncan of both of them?
Well, I'm sure his ultimate preference would have been c, of course. But either a or b were good news, so he'd settle happily for the a he got.
Silly question if Macbeth was to get his head chopped off or get blown to bit how would the weird sister's spell keep him alive?
Who knows? Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it would.
I was just watching "City of Stone". It is a beutiful piece of work. I am very fond of it.
I espicially like the one scene where that woman runs up to Travis Marshall to relate what had happened and he just totally blows her off as "crazy". That got me thinking we ALL do that (as humans) completely discount the minority view as absurd and stupid. Classic example "The Flat Earth Society", oh, we just love to make fun of them. I have decided to be more open minded to even the most seemingly crazy ideas or beliefs. I have watched "CoS" many times but that scene never really hit me like it did just today. Was that intentional on your part? To show the err in human ways. You've said all things are true and what she said was true, just because no one believed her doesn't make it no less right. It reminded me of a Greek Philosopher I think his name was Isocrates I am not sure and his quote went
"If all mankind, minus one; were of a common opinion except the one of a differing opinion. All of mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one, than he, if he had the power; would be justified in silencing all of mankind..."
More things I loved about this episode.
King Duncan's death, in my mind one of the top 10 animated deaths ever.
Demona, saves Gruoch and Macbeth when she could have had her vengence, she chose the nobler of the two courses, made me feel all happy inside. I must admit though killing Gilcoumgain then would have saved her a lot of trouble and heart break later on.
Her plan was very sinister, and her killing of the statued humans was a very dark contrast to her more kind-hearted younger self we had just seen earlier in eps like "Vows". I also liked this too, she's not soft and weak as she is commited to her cause and for that I commend her. I agree with her goals, her means are brutal and me being human will make me possibly feel the urge to resist being smited, but I hope she sees her dream out and accomplishes it, power to her.
One thing very much dissapointed me, relating to Demona when she gave the access code to Goliath and Xanatos the code was "ALONE", not one you'd imagine she'd pick, totally took me by suprise when I first saw it; but Goliath was apparently unaffected by her choice of a password and the huge water works under her eyes. Does he have a heart of stone? She's not even real (I think), and I feel a lump in my throat, every time I see that; yet he knows she's real and didn't even care, creep.
MacBeth, what can I say I think he is great. I think his story is one of the more tragic on the show. Considering all that happens, he always loved and still loves Gruoch. The one time that we see him actually take interest in life and love again he is set up by Dominique and Thailog. His plight is very dramatic. Living but having to as Gruoch said "Remain dead", dead to his country, his home, and his family.
Gruoch: Even though she gets very little air time on the series I think she is great. My second favorite female character. She is strong, smart, wise, intuitive, loving, radiant, and very honest in commiting to her duty. I espicially like how she stood up to Demona at the end, what courage. She even scorned the Hunter as "Oh mighty" with her sarcasm, 'your not mighty your a coward'. I cannot see how you could not love her.
"COS" has its share of humorous wit to it as well. I absoulutely love this:
Elisa: "..the signal came from Pak-Media studios you own it so as usual this is your fault!"
Owen: "Mr. Xanatos is trying to fix things. What are you doing to help?"
I love Elisa's expression, that's good stuff.
-Since I do not want to go into great lenghty deatail about every detail of the show..-
King Duncan- Very paranoid.
Hudson+Trio- not much to say
Boudie(SP)- Probably has his heart in the right place but man what a --well cowardly guy--
Demona's Betrayl of MacBeth- this shocked me, leave him to die at the castle but she actually contacted Kenmore?
Wierd Sisters- I HATE them. I think they are corrupt, vile, and wicked, they should burn in a fiery lake in the seventh circle of Hell somewhere. For a very, very long time. (I make this judgement with my Knowledge of the "Avalon" eps)
Vengence begats nothing more than a vicious cycle of further vengence- true perhaps, but highly over exaggerated.
The betrayl of the Cast Wyvern- I want to know who slept at Demona's roost. When the Vikings sacked it.
Bronx and Demona's encounter- I loved it. Good job.
Demona and Macbeth- It's amazing how it goes, I like when Demona came back from the fight all happy and swirled Macbeth high off the ground. Her joyous attitude was refreshing, yet all to short in length.
That's all for this post. Thanks for listening.
A few responses to your comments...
1. Yes, the scene with Travis and the woman was a comedic way to make exactly that point.
2. Can't say I'm rooting for Demona to succeed. I'm rooting for Demona, but not in that way.
3. We had an entire contest to explain "Alone" and got some very interesting responses. You might check them out in the contest archive here at ASK GREG.
4. I think it's presumptuous of you to assume you know exactly what Goliath was feeling. But one thing to keep in mind is that he had just witnessed the results of her mass murder spree.
5. I've said this before, but we all got to watch Emma Samms blossom as a voice actress over the course of just these four episodes. She had never done cartoons before. She was a bit stiff in Gruoch's first appearance, but, MAN, by COS4, she was just ROCKING!!! I give her and voice director Jamie Thomason a ton of credit for really bringing Gruoch to life when we needed it most.
6. I'm not sure that Bodhe did have his heart in the right place -- until, I like to think, the very end.
7. The notion that vengeance begets nothing more than a vicious cycle of further vengeance, is not only true but is if anything UNDERSTATED. Hardly exagerated. One only has to look at a newspaper to see that the Montagues and Capulets of this world simply refuse to recognize this obvious, obvious FACT. It drives me insane. Your casual dismissal of the notion doesn't thrill me either. (Sorry.)
8. You're welcome. I like your posts.
In the episode "Sanctuary", how was it that Demona could knock MacBeth out cold and remain conscious herself? (right after the wedding, when she reveals her true identity to him?)
(Marina Sirtis did a pretty hokey French accent, if you ask me... ;-)
She was ready for the blow. Plus she's a garg. She feels the exact same force. But it's tougher to knock out a garg than a human.
Im a big fan of the gargoyles and all and I was wondering if the gargoyles were still on the air would you bring back the Hunter? and few other questions.. how many Hunters were in the gargoyle history? I know they were 1 in the ancient times and 3 in the present and McBeth was kind of one... and the other question if you did brought back the Hunter what kind of look would he have? a High Tech-ish look more beyond what the 3 Hunters had?
I don't know exactly how many hunters there have been. We've shown a sampling, including Gillecomegain, Duncan, Canmore, the Renaissance Hunter, Charles Canmore, Jason Canmore, Robyn Canmore, Jon Canmore. And, as you said, briefly, Macbeth. Fiona Canmore would have appeared in Team Atlantis, had that show gone forward, and Robyn would have continued as the Hunter in Bad Guys (though she'd largely be hunting other bad guys, not gargs) had that show gone forward.
There are more Hunters in the past, including some specific ones that I have in mind. But I won't pretend I've run the entire Canmore line from Canmore to Jon out in my head and listed every single one.
As for moving forward, I see the Hunters waning in favor of the waxing Quarrymen. But I'm not talking in absolutes.
what is king Duncan's reaction to the news that cawdor is a traitor ?what will happen to his title'
2-do Macbeth and Banquo have the same reaction to ROSS'NEWS?
3-WHAT ANNOUNCEMENT IS MADE ABOUT MALCOLM? WHAT IS MACBETH'S REACTION?
4-HOW DID LADY MACBETH FIND OUT ABOUT THE WITCHES' PROPHECIES?
5-HOW WILLING IS MACBETH TO GO ALONG WITH LADY MACBETH'S PLANS FOR HIM TO ATTAIN THE THRONE?
Are you writing a term paper, Hanna?
Or are you just quizzing me on my Reading Comprehension of the play?
This seems rather pointless.
What proof Can we find that Macbeth was a man filed with greed, ambitons and desire
Uh... beyond the fact that he's a human being and we are all filled with these things, at least to some extent...
And having said that, I wouldn't say that those are Macbeth's foremost qualities. (At least not in the Gargoyle Universe.) So how hard should I work to offer you proof?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
What proof do you require?
I have an off the wall question for you, in "Enter Macbeth," what was Macbeth drinking? Was it coffee, tea, or cocoa? It had to have been something hot because there was steam coming off of it. If it was cocoa, did he have marshmellows in it?
I don't know.
Time to ramble...
This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.
But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.
And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?
During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:
Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.
Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."
This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.
Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?
After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.
THE GARGOYLE WAY
Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.
He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.
Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?
And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?
There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.
But there's some nice stuff going on...
Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?
Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?
Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?
I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."
Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."
Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.
At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.
Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)
I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"
THE WEDDING NIGHT
We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.
Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"
And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.
The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?
I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.
Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.
Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.
Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?
And he has some great lines too:
"You and what clan?"
"Teamwork is so overrated."
"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)
To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.
Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.
There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.
I love Goliath's two-handed punch.
I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."
But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.
When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:
<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>
Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!
This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.
But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.
Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.
KEITH meet MR. DAVID
I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.
Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."
That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.
And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.
One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.
This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.
And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."
(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
In prep for my ramble on Sanctuary, here's my notes to Story Editor/Writer Cary Bates on his first outline for "Sanctuary"...
Notes on "Sanctuary" Outline...
Cary, I'm going to resist the temptation of beating this all out for you. That's how I got so far behind before. And at this stage I doubt I could do it any faster or better than you. So I want you to do a second draft on this outline, addressing ALL of the notes below. I sympathize, in advance. This is a complicated story. But I know we (meaning mostly you) can make it work. Don't take too long. And feel free to call after you've read this. We may be able to work out some of the problems over the phone. Good luck and here goes:
How does the title fit? What is the theme of the story? Is it about feeling safe? Safe in the arms of someone you love? I like that notion, but we'd have to emphasize it a lot more.
And simultaneously, more of the action should be centered around Notre Dame Cathedral. Economically, we can't afford to design backgrounds for an entire city. So we should keep the action focused on a few locations, that climax at the gargoyle covered cathedral-"sanctuary".
Plus, we don't want newspapers to be generically talking about a "mysterious winged creature". We want them focused on the Creature haunting the Cathedral at night. Maybe they think it's someone posing as Quasimodo, or his spirit or maybe they even think it's a gargoyle come to life or something. Of course, it's really Thailog. (Not Demona, by the way.) He's been there since "Double Jeopardy". Arriving long before Demona and Macbeth arrived.
We need to involve Thailog more at the end. Make him part of the conflict. I think he would have upgraded a bit. Used some of that $20 million to armor himself for battle. Not necessarily robotic armor, but at least a chestplate. Maybe wrist and shin guards. Keep in mind, we want him to be more powerful than Goliath and more threatening than any other villain. We should probably arm him with some big high-tech bazooka/laser/cannon type-thing too.
And we don't have to break up Demona and Thailog at the end. We just need to know that Thailog doesn't really care for her.
Remember, Thailog's plan isn't to kill Demona and Macbeth for the sake of killing them. He wants what they have managed to acquire over the last nine hundred years. If he could add that to the fortune he's parlayed from the money he stole from Xanatos, he might be able to compete with Xanatos financially. He needs to have already merged Demona's holdings with his own. So that his corporation (and we should get a cool, evocative name for it) we'll inherit in the case of her demise. And he wants to inherit Macbeth's stuff too. So if Mac and Dierdre marry, and both die together, (which is the only way they can die) he'll get everything.
Now, I'm not pretending this is easy to accomplish. As I read the outline, I was wondering if we needed a maguffin or two to symbolize this wealth. Maybe Macbeth's Paris Mansion itself. But we managed to figure something out for "Outfoxed" that clearly and dynamically spelled out Halcyon and Fox's "financial conflict". We can do the same thing here. With the same clarity.
Does Macbeth plan on telling "Dierdre" the truth about himself?
Is this the first time since Gruoch that Macbeth has been in love? Since he's an immortal has he avoided close relationships, not wanting to outlive his lover? Or watch her grow old? Or has he been through this before? Maybe not often, but once or twice over the last nine hundred years. How did he handle it in the past? Is he doing something different now? Highlander questions, basically.
Is Macbeth afraid for Dierdre's life? Does he think Demona might try to harm Dierdre to get back at him?
Do Goliath, Elisa and Angela assume at first that Macbeth and human Demona are in cahoots and only realize/remember later that since M&D have no memory of anything between City of Stone and Avalon, that Macbeth might not know that this human woman is in fact Demona?
Do we have an opportunity, maybe when Goliath and Elisa are searching Paris for the villains, for them to be romanitcally affected by the City of Lights?
When it's over, instead of Macbeth simply remaining bitter and once again suicidal, could Goliath point out to him that life offers possibilities... that if Macbeth could fall in love with Demona, he could certainly fall in love with someone else? Someone nice who would make his long life worth living again, at least for a time.
A bunch of things, (some of which Cary the Story Editor should have been able to catch from his reading of past scripts, tsk tsk). Some of these notes may be moot after a rewrite of the outline.
Beat 2) Goliath, Elisa and Angela know that Demona and Macbeth left Avalon unconcious and together. Wherever they landed it would also have to be together. (Of course, Goliath and Co. have been travelling for awhile. So there's no guarantee that Macbeth and Demona stayed together after landing wherever they landed. It's just a good bet.)
There's also no reason for Goliath to assume that Macbeth and Demona are involved with each other still. (After all, they hate each other.) Also no reason to assume that Macbeth would be hurt by the association. And though there's no love left between Demona and Goliath, Goliath has no reason to feel sympathy for Macbeth. The audience might. Some of them would know Mac's backstory from City of Stone and sympathyze, but Goliath doesn't know the whole story. And he's got no reason to think more of Macbeth than Demona. Ironically, it is Thailog, more evil than any of the others, who Goliath would have the most sympathy for. He sees Thailog as a victim of poor upbringing. He'd like to reform and rescue his "son".
On the other hand, by this time Goliath believes that they land everywhere for a purpose. If he sees Macbeth and/or Demona, it's not too big a leap for him to figure that whatever the purpose, it involves these villains.
Beat 4) Again, here we'd like the headlines to be more specific to the Cathedral.
Beat 5) Elisa would recognize the human Demona from "High Noon".
Beat 7) We are forcing the creation of a lot of different sets and backgrounds here. Also don't forget that Demona's transformations to gargoyle (and back) are painful. Also don't forget that Macbeth feels any pain that Demona feels and vice versa. Distance reduces the pain, but we've never been really specific about how much distance or what the reduction is. Does Macbeth, across town, feel a little of Demona's pain at transformation? If so, he could blame Demona, knowing as he does, that he feels her pain. All that would tell him is that Demona is in the vicinity. It wouldn't reveal that Demona is Dierdre, unless he saw her transform. On the other hand, Demona might be far enough away that Macbeth feels nothing. Or just a slight twinge of soreness, that he doesn't immediately connect with Demona. We can play it any of these ways, we just need to deal with this "Corsican Brother"-style pain-sharing. We can't ignore it.
Beat 10) We've got a lot of set-up with little action up to this point. Maybe we can streamline a bit. Also, it feels like Mac's hovercraft might be a little unwieldy for this sequence. Maybe he's on the flying equivalent of a jet-ski or something a bit more svelt.
But there's another big question. What is Macbeth's objective towards Demona at this point? He knows that the only way to rid himself of her is to die himself. He may have forgotten the lessons of City of Stone and Avalon, but I would think that his love for Dierdre would prevent him from wanting to die. Later we imply that he's chasing Demona in order to chase her out of town. But that's pretty goofy logic. "I haven't seen you in weeks. So I'm going to hunt you down, to make sure you stay out of my life."
Beat 11) We definitely want to do something with the Eiffel Tower. Maybe even stage a battle there in the first or second act. But the Tower is open to tourists at night. Does anyone see them hanging there? Or are we way into wee hours by this time?
Beat 13) Goliath can't steal this guys camcorder. He's not a thief. Even destroying it is pretty malicious for Goliath, who's never gone too far out of his way to hide from humans.
Beat 16) Gargoyles don't kiss. They stroke hair. And it's "Notre Dame" ("Our Lady"), not "Notre Damn" ("Our Damnation"?)
Beat 17) The Cathedral is a very temporary safe house for Thailog while some safer, new place is being built for him. (Or maybe that's part of what Thailog is after: Macbeth's Paris Mansion.) It is not abandoned. Thailog is safe their during the day, because he's like a needle in a gargoyle haystack. After dark, he can stay out of sight in the upper reaches, until the Cathedral closes for the night. But he can't have much of a set-up there. Computers? Paintings? I don't think so. Particularly when we've got reports of a creature climbing around the church at night. People might investigate. They wouldn't find Thailog. But what would they make of that computer?
Beat 18) Demona may have no desire to "see" Goliath, since she found Thailog. But she'd still want him dead. Plus she MUST be curious about this female gargoyle. She thinks she knows all the gargoyles that exist, and none of them are female. She'd have to know. (And for that matter, so would Thailog.)
Beat 19) Think about how silly it would look in live action, if a villain who looked like Thailog, whipped out a brush and in a few seconds added a necklace to a painting. It's equally silly looking in animation. Maybe moreso because it's so easy to do.
I don't understand the pre-nuptual agreement at all. Why does Macbeth feel he needs it? (And don't tell me his lawyers push him around.) Besides, the whole idea of it goes against what we want to have happen in the story. Thailog wants Mac and Demona to get married. And have Demona inherit so that he can inherit from her, when both Demona and Mac die. Or am I missing something? I don't think we want this to be about stealing money from a safe. That's small potatos for Thailog and Demona. Either we need to have some irreplaceable (possibly magical) maguffin in that safe, or we should be dealing with the whole ball of wax. The former would probably be easier, but I'd like to go for the latter ball of wax if we can.
Beat 20) Again, I don't buy Macbeth's logic for hunting down Demona.
Beat 21) Angela can't operate a camcorder. She's not Lex. (And as noted above, I don't see anyway for our guys to have this anyhow.) Plus she wouldn't recognize Thailog. Also it feels like a pretty big jump for Goliath to figure that Demona and Thailog are working together. Not an impossible jump, but a big one.
Also, I was unclear. Did Goliath have a chance to give instructions to Elisa or did he turn to stone before he had time?
Beat 23) Again, I don't believe Macbeth lets lawyers push him around. And I don't think we need this pre-nup agreement in the story.
Beat 24) I really don't like this camcorder. And I don't know why Elisa needs it here. Like if she followed Mac and Dem, returned to Goliath without visual proof he wouldn't believe her story?
Beat 25) "How can I prove my love to you?" "Give me the combination to your safe." Yeah, that wouldn't make me suspicious.
I'd almost rather play any scene like this where Macbeth is insisting on giving something to Dierdre, who protests that she doesn't want it. The more she protests that all she needs is his love, the more he wants to lavish on her. In this way, he is predictable, but he's not being fooled by "crocodile tears" into doing something that seems incredibly fishy.
Beat 26) Again, Elisa would recognize human Demona from "High Noon" the first time she saw her. But here I was entirely unclear. How does footage of Dierdre prove that she's Demona, when Elisa didn't recognize her in person?
And this bit about Dierdre being Demona's name...? Gargoyles didn't have names in the tenth century. Naming is a human convention. Goliath referred to Demona back then as his angel love, or his angel of the night. Do we want to change "Dierdre" to "Angel" or "Angelica" or "Angelique". I don't know if you still need this, since Elisa would recognize human Demona, but I suppose you could, as long as we wouldn't be confusing the audience with Angela.
Why wouldn't Goliath want Elisa along? And why would Elisa agree to stay behind?
And what is it that Angela's staring at? Footage of human Dierdre? This isn't going to help her make the connection between herself and Demona. Visual clues aren't really the answer at all, since she would have seen Demona in the Avalon 3-parter. She learned from Sevarius that Goliath was her biological father. Here she learns that Demona was Goliath's love all those years ago. She puts two and two together over the course of the episode. Figuring out the truth only after she's already come to regard Demona as evil. You won't have room here to deal with the ramifications of that discovery. You're just setting things up for another story.
Beat 27) Why does Macbeth want to capture Goliath and Angela if he wants to get Gargoyles out of his life for good?
Beat 28) Goliath is "spreading" lies? To who? I mean we know he's not. But who does Macbeth think he's spreading lies to, that makes him want to imprison Goliath to stop it?
Also Macbeth could NOT have heard about Thailog. He was under the Weird Sister's spell when Thailog made his only other appearance. Besides who would he have heard about him from?
Beat 32) Again, not at all happy about Thailog's magic paintbrush. Particularly since it proves nothing here. It's not a photograph. If Macbeth thinks Goliath might lie about Dierdre, why wouldn't he think that this is a further lie somehow accomplished by Goliath.
Beat 33) I'm glad Macbeth keeps his cook. That guy can make a mean omelette.
Beat 36) Again, don't forget that Macbeth and Demona feel each other's pain while fighting.
Beat 39) These are huge leaps for Angela to make. How does she know this about Thailog. Also does Thailog show up there, state what he states and then not get involved in the fight? Or is that a typo for Goliath? Maybe we should let the battle climax at the Cathedral. Thailog is there. Goliath tries to "save" his son from Demona's evil. (Goliath assumes this plan is Demona's, not Thailog's.) Thailog just laughs. Reveals he wants Mac and Demona to kill each other. And he'll kill Goliath to prevent him interferring. Or something like that.
Beat 41) Killing Demona would at least knock Macbeth out.
Beat 42) Again, doesn't Thailog want anything besides their deaths?
Beat 44) Goliath still needs to be in some discomfort vis-a-vis the biological mother and father thing. It's not the gargoyle way. Brynne is going to deal with this (she'll have the space to deal with it) in her Africa story. Let Elisa be the one who confirms Angela's suspicions.
Beat 45) Again, I think we're working against our own ends. Why does Thailog need Macbeth and Demona dead, if not for what he can gain by their deaths?
Beat 46) Again, I think we can let Demona and Thailog go off together. Also, we've spent the whole episode with Demona turning back and forth from human to gargoyle. Demona does not turn to stone -- ever.
Beat 47) Angela should not get any comfort from Goliath in this episode. You don't have the time to deal with it here. If she receives comfort, it would come from Elisa.
O.k. try another pass. I'd streamline, by opening with the skiff arriving in daylight. Elisa leaves the stone gargoyles on the skiff tied under a bridge and goes to explore Paris. A place she's never been. She probably calls home again. Maybe she tries her parents this time, and again gets an answering machine. To save money on a voice actor, the answering message can be one that Elisa recorded for her parents months ago. (My sister is on my parents' machine with a message she recorded two years ago.) Elisa's voice says something like: "My parents don't know how to work their answering machine, but if you leave a message for Peter or Diane Maza, there's a fifty-fifty chance they'll call you back"). You don't have to jump through hoops to get the message erased this time. Then she briefly wanders around Paris like a tourist until she spots Mac and "Dierdre" who she immediately recognizes as Demona. She doesn't know that Mac doesn't know it's Demona. She'd probably assume they're up to something bad together. And also guess that they're why she and Goliath, etc. have landed in Paris. She follows them at a safe distance, etc. She doesn't want to get spotted. Near nightfall, she might head back so that she can inform Goliath when he awakens. Or she might not want to lose Macbeth and Demona until after she's found their H.Q. Or maybe when Mac and Dierdre split up, Elisa follows Dierdre to see where she lands, then loses her among the tourists at the cathedral.
Anyway, that's somewhere to start.
1.Did the Porter from MacBeth the play exist in the gargoyles universe?
2.What about the Lennox from MacBeth the play? Banquo(not the mercenary)? Fleance(not the mercenary)?
3.Did Hecate from MacBeth the play exist in the gargoyles universe?
2. Probably in one form or another.
3. In some form.
Time to Ramble...
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
The posting of the FAQ (thanks, Bishansky and JEB!) and your comments on them (including the "Weird Macbeth" part) prompted a question about this unmade two-parter from me.
We know that you had planned the following casting choices for this episode:
Macbeth as himself (or, more accurately, as his Shakespearean counterpart).
Demona as Lady Macbeth (the role that she was hatched to play :)
Goliath as Macduff
Elisa as Lady Macduff
Do you remember any of the other casting decisions for this story (i.e., who was to play Duncan, Malcolm, Banquo, Fleance, the Porter, etc.)?
Hudson was Duncan, I believe.
The rest I don't remember off-hand, largely because I don't think I had done much casting. It never got past the premise stage, unfortunately. It was the one story that I wanted to do that upper-management wouldn't approve. Even then, they were willing to approve it for a single episode. But I felt I couldn't do it justice in 22 minutes. So in essence, I'm the one who kiboshed it.
That really says something about the creative freedom we were given on the show. 66 episodes. And only one semi-rejected premise.
Did Macbeth fight in any of the world wars? If so which side?
Yes, Macbeth has fought in many wars.
And certainly in WWII he was with the allies.
How many identities does MacBeth have in 1996? Is he really a professor?
By 2198 does everyone know that he the Scottish king that Shakespeare wrote about?
At least two that he keeps active.
He's a medievalist. Doesn't mean he teaches.
Where is MacBeth in 2198?
Ok, I checked the archives and couldn't find anything about my 3 questions:
1.) Where does Macbeth get his money? He has advanced weapons, a really snazzy hovercraft, a castle in or near Manhattan that burned down only to be built again, and add to the mix the fact that he goes around hiring mercenaries, installing massive guns for security systems... So where is he getting this cash. A millenia would drain any fortune he may have. Establishing a trust would be tough because he may be in trouble with social security. So where does his money come from? Antique sales? You already said he isn't willing to part with many of his valuable things. Mabye he's a really good writer and has a book deal, or mabye he's just been getting a LOT of social security. Which is it?
2.) How does Macbeth hide his identity for so long? The amount of money he has is bound to attract attention.
You checked the Macbeth archive and didn't get an answer to this question? Check again.
The short answer is if you buy land when it's cheap, later it will be worth a fortune. If you have equity, most things of any worth go up in value. And even things of little worth become valuable if they are old enough. And he has a lot of old things. He doesn't necessarily even have to sell much. He has equity.
He's also smart and tough. He can live on very little if he needs to. Etc.
2. He's smart enough to 'die' periodically and leave his wealth to a new identity.
1) Do the Canmore siblings (The Hunters) know about Macbeth (What, with his still being alive and all)?
2) Have they ever tried to hunt him?
3) Does Macbeth have any descendants living by 1996?
4) Do the Canmores (at least the ones descended from Jon) still hunt Demona in 2198?
1. Not saying.
2. Not saying.
3. Not saying.
4. There are no more Canmores, at least not of that line. But the Castaways still hunt her. Her and all gargoyles through the Quarrymen.
1) Why does McBeth's stone dungen floor burn so easily? I've never seen Stone burn so well.
2) Did McBeth loose much of importance in the fire, I'd imagin there would be a lot of old magic relics, and the like. b) Did the fire burn Everything he owned? c) Did he build his new house on the ruins of his old one? d)Do you now the history of his old house, is it relivant and will you tell us?
3) Why didn't Owen call Bruno's group, or summon the steel clan, or do something more, when Hudson and Broadway took the Grimorum?
5) Did Mcbeth put Bronx in a seprate cage on purpose cause he thought they would figue out how to get him out? Was he testing them?
6) What did Macbeth tell Xanatos he planed to do with the Gargoyles? b) What did he plan to do with them once he had found their "queen"? c)Did Demona tell Macbeth about Goliath and the spell on him? And then he figured out where she was in NY when the castle was brought there, and know she must be behind it?
6) I just want to be sure this is correct. Lex and Brooklyn didn't think Bronx was strong enough to break open their cage, and Bronx only did it the second time because he had an order from Goliath. Is that all right?
1. And you may never see it again. Consider yourself lucky.
b. No. For starters the fire did not spread to Paris, where he also owns a chateau.
d. Haven't given it one. And it's gone now. The newer one is just a replica.
3. Summon them where?
4. There doesn't seem to be a question four.
5. All went according to plan.
6. He didn't.
b. That would depend on events.
c. Not necessarily.
The second question 6. Bronx had momentum the second time. He could have gathered it the first time, I suppose. But it cost him to break through, so maybe your right. They didn't want to take any chances. Get help while he's free.
This is my first post here, and it's quite lengthy. I've been looking through the archives, and I'm pretty sure this question has never been asked before. But if it has, I honestly don't know what category it would be filed under. It's mainly about who knows what throughout the course of the Gargoyles story.
Nobody in the audience knew anything about Demona and Macbeth's relationship and former lives prior to "City of Stone," but who in the Gargoyles universe, if anyone, knew anything? I've been watching my taped episodes recently and this really stood out at me this time. It's always been the one thing about the show that bothers me.
It really sticks out in "The Price," when Hudson says, "Believe it lads, Macbeth's dead." Later in the episode, Lexington seems genuinely convinced that Macbeth actually is dead, which leads me to believe that he doesn't know about Macbeth's background by that point. However, later in the same episode, Hudson explains to Xanatos, "Demona and Macbeth are immortal. Has it brought them happiness?" Was Hudson simply feeding a line to Lexington? Was Lex not supposed to know about the whole Demona/Macbeth thing? It's wierd, because Elisa also knows about it by the time of "Sanctuary."
That leads me to another question: how does Hudson know? And Goliath for that matter? Who was it that told them about Demona's history? It couldn't have been Xanatos, because he didn't know either until "City of Stone," or he wouldn't have been fooled by Demona's excuse for living so long. I'm actually not too sure Xanatos ever finds out.
I could only think of one way that it could work. Here goes:
In "Temptation," Demona says to Brooklyn, "It's a long story, centuries long." I was thinking that Demona may have told her story to Brooklyn at that point, and that he later told Goliath, who told Hudson and Elisa. In that case, was this privelidged information that Goliath only trusted Elisa, Hudson, and Brooklyn with? This would explain Hudson's behavior in "The Edge," and give Brooklyn a shoe-in for Second in command, but it would not explain Brooklyn's puzzlement about Macbeth's identity in "Enter Macbeth," unless Goliath had told him not to tell Lex and Broadway. However, Goliath clearly has no clue who Macbeth is at that point. Could Brooklyn have told him later? Lex clearly knows about Demona's immortality by the time "Hunter's Moon" rolls around, so I was thinking that Brooklyn may have decided that it was necessary to tell Broadway and Lex everything when he was leader.
I don't think Macbeth would have told Broadway his story in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time," when Broadway was tied up in his jet or at his mansion; the timing seemed all wrong.
So I guess what my question boils down to is this:
When did the clan first learn about Demona's past, and her relationship with Macbeth, and am I on the right track with the whole Brooklyn idea?
By the way, Gargoyles is my favorite show. It still amazes me how you were able to weave such an intricate story about such real characters, and teach real life lessons about vengeance, tolerance, family, reconciliation, and so much more, all within the confines of a childrens' cartoon. This was truly a story that made full use of its own medium, and made strong points about life. I believe that Gargoyles is probably the most beneficial and educational childrens' programming I have ever seen, in terms of teaching life lessons, and I too am completely disgusted that Toon Disney won't air "Deadly Force." Thank you for reading this long ramble of mine, and also for providing the best television program to date.
I definitely have gone through this before. So it's somewhere in the archives. Like in the Macbeth archive or Demona most likely. I'm afraid you're on the wrong track, mostly because you are taking the word "Immortality" too literally. It's used in different ways in different places.
1. In "The Price", Hudson does know that Macbeth and Demona have been alive a LONG time. That makes them Immortal on at least one level. When he says immortal in this one, he's only referring to their obviously long life spans. But at this time, he doesn't know about their link, their inability to die unless one kills the other. The fact that they've lived that long might only mean that they've never been killed and have some kind of eternal youth spell or something. So Hudson can believe that Macbeth has FINALLY died when the first robot bites the dust.
2. After the Weird Sisters are captured in "Avalon, Part Three", they are (off-screen) forced to reveal the link between Demona and Macbeth, i.e the terms of their immortality. So at that point, a bunch of people know the truth, particularly Goliath, Elisa and Angela.
3. So by "Sanctuary", Elisa knows. And clearly, Demona has also told Thailog.
4. When Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela return to NYC in "The Gathering, Part One" and after they have time to sit down and relate their adventures (between "The Gathering, Part Two" and "Vendettas"), they relate the Demona/Macbeth story to Hudson and the Trio. So now most of the cast is up to speed.
We know by City of Stone part 4, that MacBeth's son Luach is dead, probably even killed by Canmore himself. My question is even though there were circumstances that made them enemies, they were still very good friends when they were young, didn't that make Canmore at least think about not killing his cousin?
They were very good friends when they were young? That's news to me. Did you see how they looked at each other after the Weird Sisters issued their prophesy?
And while they were still young, Luach's dad killed Canmore's. That probably didn't endear the cousins either.
I think you are reading too much into the fact that on one hike, they were having a good time until things got serious.
1) Do the Canmore siblings (The Hunters) know about Macbeth (What, with his still being alive and all)?
2) Have they, or any other Canmores, ever tried to hunt him?
3) Does Macbeth have any descendants living by 1996?
4) Do the Canmores (at least the ones descended from Jon) still hunt Demona in 2198?
1. Not saying.
2. Not saying.
When Dominique was pretending to love Macbeth, was there any instant that she got hurt in his presence (stubed her toe or something)? Also, is it JUST pain that Demona and Macbeth both feel? Or can one feel the other touching his\her skin? How bout plessure? If Ms. Destine was to go as far as to bed with Macbeth (though I doubt that would happen), would that be VERY INTERESTING for Macbeth? I tend to think like this a lot.
Simple touching doesn't pass from one to the other. Intense feelings of pain and pleasure would.
And no, obviously Dominique was careful not to be in range when she was transforming. And she didn't slip up either.
In the old ask Greg, you told someone to repost a queston (what did Demona think of the play, Macbeth?) latter, after you thought about it. Well, I'm asking now.
Also, you said that Macbeth was highly amused by the play about him. Were you being sarcastic? I'd imagein that he would OUTRAGED at how William treated him, and his wife and made Duncan and Malcolm the mistreated ones. So was that just a smart ass answer on your part?
) Will there be any romantic feelings between Brooklyn and Demona in GARGOYLES 2198, like the Puck's "Future Tense".
3) Will Macbeth play apart in GARGOYLES 2198? If so, in what way? Now that the revamping is over.
4) How do Demona and Macbeth feel about each other by 2198? Now that the revamping is over.
5) Does Samson know that he is a descend of Demona? If so, does he consider Demona as his great-great (or how ever many greats they are) grand mother?
6) Does Demona know that Samson is a descend of her?
). There'll be feelings. Not saying what kind.
3). You keep repeating "now that the revamping is over". What does that mean to you? Does it have significance? Do you mean now that the contest is over? Anyway, I've answered this. Macbeth will show up eventually but not right away.
4). Now that the revamping is over, I'm not telling.
5) He knows. And to some degree, yes.
A little query that recently occurred to me about the "feeling each other's pain" part of Demona and Macbeth's link. Where does Macbeth feel the pain when Demona receives an injury to her wings or her tail?
Back or butt.
Another one for "Pendragon".... Why does MacBeth show so much contempt for Arther after speaking so grandly of him and Merlin in "lighthouse"? By the end of the episode he sounds more like himself, but durning the race for the sword, I thought he should of treated him as more of a worthey opponent.
I don't hear contempt there. Just competition for a prize that he felt he had as much a right to as Arthur did. I guess it's a matter of interpretation.
Oh my god, I'm not asking a Oberon and Titania question! Its a miracle! :)
I know this has been answered before and I have read your response to the question, but I am a little bit confused still.
You said that any fatal injury Macbeth & Demona sustain, the magical spell that keeps them alive would immediately heal them, and rapidly depending on how serious the fatal injury is.
So, if either were beheaded, would their head fall off and reattach itself or would the spell immediately begin to heal the severed area before it had a chance to fall off?
The same with a severed limb?
Look at what you wrote: "...if either were beheaded, would their head fall off and reattach itself or would the spell immediately begin to heal the severed area before it had a chance to fall off?"
It's a hypothetical. What's the point? Neither one has had their head chopped off. Despite nearly 1000 years of adventuring times the two of them, I will personally guarantee that neither has been beheaded. This isn't Highlander. There's no rule about this. What there is is the statement of the Weird Sisters, who said that neither would die until one kills the other -- when both would die. Whether you choose to believe them or not is up to you.
I haven't said much in a while, but now I have a question:
Since the 2198 contest is over, will you reveal anything pretaining to what happens to MacBeth? I noticed you mentioned Demona to still be around in 2198 so I suppose that MacBeth must be also. Will he be a part of the 2198 spin-off or play a major role? The Pendragon spin-off? Any others?
Macbeth is still alive in 2198. And he will eventually make his presence known. But not right away. I do have big plans for him. But probably not until 2199 at the earliest.
Today no talk, just the question:
In "Sanctuary", Macbeth got a picture of Elisa hanging in his livingroom. Was that a joke by the writers, or have you too not noticed it untill yet?
By the way: do you know, that John Rhys-Davies will play Gimli in the Lord of the Rings movie?
OK, that's all
I knew John was in the movie, not what he was playing.
I have noticed that there is a picture that looks like Elisa. At present I have no explanation for it. It certainly wasn't in the script.
Hee, hee. I just noticed something that I found amusing. Macbeth must have some sort of 'Red-Headed Curse' upon him or something! All the women that affect his life somehow have had red hair. His dear wife Gruoch was the first. And then Demona, whose red hair has virtually become a trademark! His hired mercenary Fleance is a carrot top. And by extension of Demona, his French ex-wife was a redhed too! None of the females in the series with any connection to him don't have red hair. I like it. It's neat. Was it intention, or is it just an amusing fluke? If a fluke, did you ever notice?
I'm color blind.
Does the spell of immortality completely heal Demona and MacBeths injuries. Do bullet or stab wounds heal without a trace or do the leave battle scars. It had occured to me that the spell might not have to heal them to be good as new, just enough to keep them alive. If being "alive" is the minmal requirement. Then the two of the could theoretically go into comas for the rest of eternity and still be considered "alive" for the purposes of the spell. I know, now way you were actually going to do this. Just exorcising a "creativity demon."
Hey, exorcise away.
How would Macbeth react to the Canmore siblings? They are, after all, descendants of his arch-nemeses, and overall the family hasn't proven to be very honorable.
He'd not be fond of them.
why did you and the writers decide not to have Macbeth join Arthur as one of his knights?
Mostly because Macbeth didn't seem to want to join.
But also because I didn't need him there as a regular in Pendragon. Frankly, he and Arthur have too much in common.
Arthur and Griff and later Blanchefleur and Merlin seemed like a good core group to start with.
Macbeth makes for a good guest star.
In your opinion, if Gargoyles ever became a motion picture, out of the well known actors, who do you think might best play Macbeth?
I say Sean Connery. He's got the looks (well use too, stick some hair on his head and he's fine), the accent, and he's played a King and warrior before. :)
We just had this discussion here. Check out the Ask Greg Archives under Macbeth, or Live-Action Movie or Voice Talent.
1) Why did the Weird Sisters spend so much time and effort making Demona and MacBeth their pawns, and keeping them alive for nine-hundred and something years?
2) Why did the Archmage want those two in particular?
They seam pretty powerfull but there have got to be people of equal power in the 20th century (even people who would be willing o go the Avalon)
3) If they had over 900 years, why didn't the Weird Sisters get afew more pawns (would have been a good idea, considering ththier attack on Avalon failed)
1. Partially, because the Archmage asked them to. And for other reasons, I'm not yet revealing.
2. I don't think the Archmage fully knew the answer (or thought to care). Demona, he thought he was punishing for an earlier ("Vows") betrayal. But even that argument is specious. And he didn't know Macbeth from Adam.
3. The Archmage didn't ask for any others. That restricted them, vis-a-vis Oberon's Law.
You know that gargoyles don't age as fast as humans and Demona and MacBeth feel the same things is that whay MacBeth lived for a long time or is it because MacBeth is a king?
They've been cursed, remember?
You refer to Demona and Macbeth as "foot-soldiers" in the context that the Weird Sisters used them for (or sought to use them for). Isn't that a bit of an under-title for them? Why go through all the trouble of obtaining Demona and Macbeth if only to use them as "grunts"? First off, isn't the entire purpose of foot-soldiers/grunts to have a lot of them? Merely two suggest specialization, and indeed, they seem to have been chosen because they were special. What was the Archmage's motivation behind obtaining these two in particular, and any two in general? Did he just not want to have to get his hands dirty with "menial" tasks? Did he want the ego boost of having underlings? Were Demona and Macbeth candidates because they were "the best" and therefore more of an go boost?
Terms like "foot soldier" and "cannon fodder" were clearly used by the Archmage to make him feel more important. In fact, he was cherry-picking very talented warriors.
Or one might argue, he had nothing to do with the selections. How did he even know about Macbeth? Sure his older self told him, but how did he know? Sure HIS older self told him, but how did he know? And so on, and so on, and so on...
i just watched "Enter Macbeth". i think this was the first of lots of sad ending-episodes... after this in "Reawakening" Coldstone is awakened and apparently dies, in "Metamorphosis" Derek is mutated and decieved by Xanatos, really sad ending, in "Legion" Coldstone is brought back but is destroyed by a virus, and on and on until "Hunters Moon" when the Clocktower is destroyed and the gargoyles are exposed. a very bittersweet series, really, i love it! anyway, back to my point, in "Enter Macbeth" you opened with Xanatos in prison in a dark cell eating bad prison food, while the gargs are living it up at the Eyrie, Broadway cooking in a well-equiped kitchen, Hudson watching the tube in his own tv room, Brooklyn and Lex playing cards in the big foyer, Goliath reading in the nice library, and the Grimorum safe in a high-tech glass display case. but by the end of the episode the clan is the ones living in the dark uncomfortable cell, the Clocktower, no more tv room, you have to break into the public library to read, the best you have for a kitchen is a hotplate, and the Grimorum is now stored in a closet behind a regular wooden door, and as for Xanatos, he's back home now, living the good life atop the worlds tallest building. now, my literature teacher in high school taught me to always see symbolism in everything and though i didn't see it before, this whole episode teems with it. i just wanted to congratulate you and the writers, this is great television, i think!
Images of HOME were consciously threaded throughout this episode. You've left out Macbeth's glorious home, which goes up in flames for his efforts.
Some justice in the world.
In the Wierd Sisters incantation on Macbrth and demona they say "forever and eternal bound" so my quetion is
1) Can the Wierd Sister undo their spell
2) Can anyone else (with the exception of D and M killing each other)
2. Doubt it.
Is there a reason that MacBeth owns the real Mona Lisa while the Renaissance hunters used Leonardo's weapons? Is it a coincedence?
I never said Macbeth owned the real Mona Lisa.
I just never said he didn't.
You've stated that you'd like to see the people who voiced the characters portray them in a live action movie. However John Rhys-Davies would make a fairly poor MacBeth because of his size. So excluding him who would you like to see portray MacBeth?
I don't know. Connery? He's probably too old now. Guess we'd have to hold auditions. :)
Actually, I'm not sure I agree with you about John.
In Hunter's Moon, Demona is going to blanket the world with her virus, killing all the humans, i was thinking that, if Macbeth is human and Demona is responsible for the virus, would'nt die, and wouldn't she?
I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but i haven't seen that epiodes.
Anyway, just wondering.
It's SO been covered. Did you even look in either the Demona or Macbeth archive?
Short answer: It would depend on Demona's true intent.
Are the were-panthers and Natsilane also suppose to be weapons of war like Demona and MacBeth?
Demona and Macbeth (lowercase b, by the way) were not weapons of war. They were foot-soldiers.
There is purpose afoot, but I hesitate to make such a one-to-one comparison.
Why did the Weird Sisters have Demona and MacBeth steal Coldstone? I mean MacBeth and Demona stole it to make sure that the Gargoyles didn't find out about the theft of the three talismans, but what did the sisters have to gain from it? They could have teleported the duo beyond the grasp of the gargoyles.
Demona and Macbeth were not in control.
The point was to steal the three items without alerting Goliath's suspicions. Stealing Coldstone accomplished that. Goliath never even realized the three items were missing. Teleporting has nothing to do with anything.
in "Sanctuary" when Macbeth and Demona are fighting, Demona gets a hold of a gun and so does Elisa, Macbeth pulls back his jacket to let Demona shoot him and in the last second starts saying "NO!". is this because he realizes he doesn't want Demona to kill him and or is it because he sees that Elisa is about to shoot Demona and thus he won't die?
He sees Elisa and realizes that her intervention will spoil his suicide attempt.
1) Have you given any thought to how MacBeth and Demona will die--if they ever do?
2a) Can you think of any specific way in which the magical bond between them can be dispelled (other than through death)? b) Can the bond be altered in any way, or are the conditions fixed?
3) Demona and MacBeth asked for the Sisters' help, and thus they were justified in magically linking the two together and "interfering in mortal lives". But once that act is ended, how can they put the two under a geis and force them to steal the magical artifacts and fight for the Archmage (I doubt they were given permission)? Does Oberon's law permit them to continue interfering with any mortal whose life they've already once affected?
2a. Not telling.
2b. Not telling.
3. Emotionally exhausted, Demona and Macbeth relinquished their personal sovereignty. Watch the scene again.
About Angela: Right after the World Tour, what are her opinions about...
1. He seems all right.
2. She doesn't seem to trustworthy. But at least she's not trying to kill me.
3. He seems all right.
Re: High Noon
I have to say that I was very confused about the three Desdemonas. Until someone mentioned it in Ask Greg I just figured it was the writer wanting to do strange and surreal stuff inside Coldstone's head. The animation was so good I never would've noticed the colour mistake. If it wasn't for this venue, I'd never have known.
"This is diverting." "You don't know the half of it."
Sure, I laughed when I first heard the line accompanied by the expression on Coldstone's face. But when I watched the episode again a few years later, I thought that Macbeth's response may have been a hint (subconsciously, maybe) that the entire situation was a diversion (staged to get the talismans). Am I wrong to think that Mac may not have been as interested in the girl-fight as it sounded?
Nah. It works both ways.
I am absolutely fascinated with your comment that Gargoyle's MacBeth was more historically accurate than Shakespeare's (obviously ommitting Demona and immortality).
What parts were more accurate?
I know this is a pain, but would you happen to know where I could find some historically accurate accounts of Macbeth? His home, his full name, whether Duncan was the perfect king potrayed in the play, etc....
What research materials did you use when writing Mac for Gargoyles?
Is Glamis castle in Scotland really Mac's castle, as I have been told?
Thanks so much!!!
Most of the research on Macbeth was done by Monique Beatty and Tuppence Macintyre. I did little or none myself. (I didn't have time.) Monique was my assistant (and is now a producer in her own right). Tup is a close friend and a Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney.
I know Holinshed was of some use. But I don't know what other books they used specifically.
Almost everything we did -- minus the gargs and Weird Sisters and the Mask of the Hunter -- was more accurate historically than Shaekespeare. (Not better, just more accurate.) Duncan and his father hired Gillecomgain to assassinate Mac's father. They rewarded him with Mac's title and with Gruouch. Mac eventually killed Gille and married Gruoch, adopting her boy Lulach as his own. There were some rumours that Lulach WAS his child.
Mac killed Duncan in battle, not while Duncan was a guest in his house. Mac ruled wisely for seventeen years and was overthrown by Malcolm Canmore, who was backed by the English. Etc.
I'm not 100% sure about Glamis, but I believe Macbeth's historical home was Castle Moray (also called Murray).
I have been reading Macbeth and Demona responses and the above mentioned for "High Noon" where questions were asked why Macbeth didn't feel the pain when Elisa and Demona where in combat. And I think people are putting too much emphasis on the fact that Macbeth could prepare for the blows. Couldn't it be that, and if you watch the fight scene; Elisa didn't really "hurt" Demona enough to evoke the spell? Granted Demona ran head-first into a statue but that might not of hurt too much.
A combination of all of the above -- including that we screwed up a bit.
how long had Demona and Thailog been a couple when Goliath arrived in Paris? how long had Demona and Macbeth been in Paris?
The following dates are tentative, based on my current reworking of the timeline -- still a rework in progress.
Demona and Macbeth arrived in Paris on 1-1-96.
Demona first encountered Thailog on 1-2-96.
Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrived in Paris on 1-21-96.
I am still a bit confused on how is it that Demona and MacBeth have to die, if they do? I know that no one else but either one of them can kill them both, but what I'm confused about is...
1. Do they both (AND) have to kill each other at the exact same time?
2. Or does at least MacBeth OR Demona have to kill the other in order for them both to die? (Keeping in mind, OR in math means one, the other, or both.)
I wanted you to be impressed with my cool Mr. Spock logic I was pondering today because I was bored and needed to use my discrete mathematics knowledge formally. So, I'd thought I'd apply math to Gargoyles somehow. Hope you understand.
Let "m" stand for MacBeth, and "d" for Demona. TRUE being if one is killed. FALSE if not. Here's my truth table for possibility #1.
m | d | m and d
T | T | T
T | F | F
F | T | F
F | F | F
Therefore, if they both kill each other, that would be the only TRUE outcome, whereas all others are False because if one lives, then they both do, correct?
And here's my logic for possibility #2.
m | d | m or d
T | T | T
T | F | T
F | T | T
F | F | F
Therefore, only one is FALSE because according to #2's theory, either Macbeth or Demona kills the other, then they both die, or if they both kill each other.
I hope my logic is not flawed somewhere...Mr. Spock would not be impressed.
See Gargoyles does help out with math!
Math is good.
But really you don't need it here. If you listen to the Weird Sisters it's pretty clear.
One has to kill the other (OR both kill each other at the same time). They don't both have to do it. Just the terms of the bond.
Following fast on the heels of City of Stone, here's my ramble on High Noon...
The recap is interesting here. It's all Coldstone oriented. Demona, Macbeth and the Weird Sisters aren't mentioned. Nothing from City of Stone, despite this being a direct sequel to those events. The reason is that the recaps got early criticism on a Disney Afternoon mailing list for giving too much away. We'd show a villain who didn't appear until the end of Act One, thus cueing our audience to expect that villain all along. A valid criticism. So we tried to adjust here. Coldstone's participation wasn't a secret. The episode opens in his "internal cyber-world" and he's shown dormant in the Clock Tower in the very next scene. But when Demona and Macbeth first walk past Elisa and Morgan, we're not supposed to know who they are. So I intentionally kept them out of the recap to preserve that reveal.
The heather Othello gathers has no scent. Why not? Everything in that world, except for the souls of the three gargs was simply a mental construct. Sight, sound, touch. So why not smell? No chemical senses, you might argue. But why no chemical senses? Why touch and not taste? I think that the lack of smell was an unconscious or subconscious boundary that Desdemona did not want to cross. Something to remind her that this world is not real. For all we know, Othello and Iago could smell whatever they imagined they could smell.
I like seeing Hudson and Broadway learning to read. We cheated a bit. I'm not sure they could have progressed as fast as they did in the short time since "Lighthouse". But we took that liberty to show that they had been working assiduously at it.
I have mixed feelings about Hudson's "Why would she want to 'hit a sack'?" line. On the one hand, I'm not sure we ever did enough of this. Playing with the contrasts in language and expression between their world and ours. On the other hand, it just seemed a bit late in the game for Hudson not to have heard this one already. (And for that matter, I have no idea when that particular phrase originated. For all I know they've been hitting the sack since the Middle Ages.)
Elisa makes a point of saying that she's "no hero". Just a gal doing a job. But of course, we know that's not true. It's simply how she'd prefer to view herself -- particularly when she's so tired. I tried to use this episode to emphasize that Elisa works the night shift. That she gets off work just before sunrise. Starts work just after sunset. (I actually imagine that she works a four day ten hour shift, plus mucho overtime.) Sometimes it seemed like the fans had forgotten that. I got a lot of questions back then like: "She works during the day and hangs with the gargoyles at night. When does she sleep?"
Morgan has a real nice role in this one. Keith is great as Morgan. So distinctive from Goliath in a part that was a mere throwaway in Awakening, Part One. Morgan and Elisa's easy rapor in this episode and Avalon One is what gave me the idea that he might someday ask her out (on that 2nd Halloween episode I've mentioned a few times). And the notion of a Keith-Salli-Keith triangle tickled me a bit.
Enter Macbeth as a perp with a human Demona dressed as a cop. (Always nice to show our characters in different costumes on occasion.) I'm curious how many people IMMEDIATELY recognized Demona as herself? After all, you'd only gotten a BRIEF glimpse of her human form in "The Mirror". And we hadn't shown it at all in "Vows" or "City of Stone". In fact, City of Stone began what we then called our Third Tier of stories. (Tier One was the first season. Tier Two was the first eight episodes of the second season: Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Silver Falcon, Mirror, Eye of the Beholder, Vows.) And of course, City of Stone was transitional, so one could argue that Tier Three was beginning here with High Noon. Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?
And once you did know, what were you thinking? The gargoyles have the same questions, I'd imagine. Last they (and you) saw, Mac and Demona hated each other, and had been taken away by the seemingly benevolent Weird Sisters. What was going through your heads about all this? Did you wonder at the seeming inconsistencies, like their knowledge of the Clock Tower? Their ability to get Coldstone out of the tower in daylight, unseen?
When my son Ben saw Demona, he thought it was one of the "triplets", which is what he calls the Weird Sisters. (They've fast become his favorite characters.) When I pointed out that she had red hair and not white, yellow or black, he was resistent to giving up on the idea that they weren't going to appear. (I was glad they eventually did. And now I wonder what he's going to think about the next seven episodes in which they do NOT appear.)
Throughout this, we cheat a bit on Elisa's exhaustion. We knock her out, but keep her tired. The subtle differences between various means of being unconscious and their effects on how tired one is confuse me.
I love Mac and D's exchange...
Mac: "You're still thinking like a gargoyle."
D: "I am a gargoyle." And don't you forget it.
Again, back in those days I just thought the audience would get revved up merely because we were teaming up THREE of our major villains. Macbeth, Demona and the villainous side of Coldstone. In Batman or Superman that would be a BIG EVENT. A huge threat to the hero. Did it have that effect on you guys? I feel vaguely that in a strange way, it did not. That our villains were so complex, that for once they backfired on us. That it wasn't viewed as, "Wow, our heroes have barely survived an encounter with one of those guys, how will they handle three?" Rather, the conflict was less interesting than the machinations and personalities. Am I being clear? Your thoughts?
This episode had some truly gorgeous animation in it. And the transformation scenes are both very cool. The Pain Link plays well here, though occasionally seems more geared to comedy than drama for some reason. The theme of gifts coming with a price... particularly the gifts of tricksters is emphasized in this scene.
Meanwhile Othello is desperately trying to remain an ostrich with his head in the sand. A position that on at least one level, Elisa 'believes' she'd like to take as well. With Othello, I think it's a real possibility that he will never act. With Elisa, I don't think we believe it for a moment. That's part of the reason they're both in there. To make sure that the theme of "Standing Up" is emphasized. Which brings us to the title, "HIGH NOON". That was one of mine, I believe. And I stole it right from the Gary Cooper movie. Sure we'd have a battle at High Noon. Because this was Elisa's story, not the gargoyles. Because the gargoyles would be asleep and vulnerable. But also because it was that kind of archetypal the-hero-stands-alone western battle.
You may notice that Xander Berkeley (the voice of Iago) does not appear in this episode. Because Iago has no lines when he's not in control of the Coldstone body. Again, I'm always so impressed with what a great job Michael Dorn does contrasting the Othello and Iago personalities without actually changing his voice.
I like Elisa's line when Brooklyn asks her if she recognized the woman with Macbeth. "She seemed familiar." Think about this for a second. If this was real life and not a cartoon, do you think you'd recognize Demona in Dominique? And yet I completely buy that Elisa recognized something in there. There's a strange nega-intimacy between Elisa and Demona. (Which is one of the sick reasons why I created Delilah, later.)
Goliath and Elisa engage in a little dueling patronizing here. Elisa has to go back on shift, so can't accompany the 'goyles to Mac's place. Goliath is pretty smug when he says the six of them can handle it. (The smugness, I hope, is undercut when he follows it up by saying, "You have a whole city to protect." Which is how he views it.) Then Elisa talks to them like they're little kids. She wants a full report when they get back. (Who says these two weren't made for each other?)
Lex, who has been and will continue to be very adept at breaking alarm systems, etc., for once admits that it's all too easy.
I like the moment when Goliath taps the camera with his wing. A nice little touch. And very well animated.
Lex is always the voice of warning in regards to Coldstone. This is important. Goliath listens to Lex this time. And Lex is fooled when Coldstone reveals Demona's involvement, seemingly before they know Demona is involved. I thought that was very clever on the villains' part.
Bronx smells Demona behind the closet, just as he did behind the tapestry.
I like how the marble bust flies and crashes. Another nice touch in the boarding and animation. Nice weight to the whole Brooklyn-Demona-Bronx fight scene.
I liked staging the Macbeth, Husdon, Broadway fight in a library. Felt like a thematic rematch from "Lighthouse".
The pain link here is a BIT of a cheat. Usually with them in different rooms on different floors, it wouldn't be quite this intense. Maybe the library is directly above whatever room Demona was in.
Lex is sure Coldstone's wrong about Demona. Brooklyn's "Uh, guess again." line is fun.
The entire battle at Macbeth's place is part of a technique I enjoy using on occasion called "Suspended Structure". This is really an Elisa and Othello Story. But we let the gargs carry the action for a period of time, while the true protagonists can't or won't take action. This keeps the story moving, without compromising the inaction of our "leads".
Demona confronts Elisa at the clock tower. The animators get a little carried away here with some of Demona's body language. God knows, it's fun to watch. But would she really do all those sexpot poses? Is that in character?
It is fun to see her hail a taxi though.
Morgan's back. Elisa now looks VERY tired. Again, great work from the animators. It's all in the eyes. Morgan helps Elisa though he thinks she's just talking about normal copwork. It only proves there's really no such thing as a "Normal Life". Morgan certainly doesn't think he has one.
Meanwhile Desdemona's gettin antsy. It's the "in" that the Weird Sisters need. They take over. Unfortunately, here, the animators screwed up. The three Desdemona's were supposed to have silver, gold and raven hair. Instead, in most shots, they just look like three Dessies. Then when they finally do get the hair right, it's just before they merge back into one Desdemona. At which point, the hair color should have been Des'. Instead, I think it's Luna's -- briefly. Oh, well. Anyway, I could have just done this with Desdemona herself. But I wanted to give the audience a hint that the Weird Sisters were still involved. Ben was thrown by the hair. He almost didn't believe these were the triplets.
I like the line: "Even shadows must be true to their shade."
High Noon at Belvedere Castle. Coldstone wonders that he can see the sun. Again, that's me making sure people are clear that Coldstone is RE-ANIMATED STONE, not flesh. I don't think it's visually clear. (Part of the problem being that Othello's coloring is too similar.)
Then Elisa arrives -- counting on Macbeth's honor to keep Demona from shooting her. For that reason, she intentionally doesn't bring her service revolver to the party. Quite the gambit. Elisa also counts on Demona's temper -- and on the fact that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting with reduced human strength. She goads Demona: "I'm here to save him." and "You fight like a rookie." I love, positively LOVE, the former of those two lines. Elisa is a hero in her own right. Though Goliath has rescued her on occasion, I felt we did a pretty good job of always evening the score. She's no damsel in distress.
Mac & Coldstone: "This is diverting." "You have no idea." (Quotations approximate.) I like that. A tip of the hat to my being a guy, if you will.
We cheat a bit here on the pain link too. One could argue that Mac IS feeling the pain. But he's ready for it and covering. He does seem to be grimacing a bit when he says, "You have no idea." But still, I think we cheated.
I love the animation on the Othello, Desdemona, Iago fight.
Battle over, Coldstone leaves. Sends himself into exile. This is the gargoyle way.
And hey, our jogger is back. Again wondering where all these statues are coming from. That's just fun continuity for me. And Elisa: "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."
And then the whole final scene between Mac and D and the sisters is so much fun. I love the sense of the fog lifting from their eyes. "What Primary Objective?" "Why are we working together?"
And I'm also proud of the trick. A very Xanatosian tag here. Steal Coldstone to distract the gargs from noticing the thefts of the gate, book and eye.
And how about that reference to "The coming battle..." that the Sisters end the episode on? What did you all think of that at the time?
I'll try to post the High Noon writer's memo tomorrow. (Meant to do it yesterday, but I forgot.) Anyway, Done rambling. You're turn. (Again, I'm interested in both your original and current responses to the episode.)
Hey, um. Sorry about Question 2 in my Angela post.
I guess you DID say that you weren't gonna answer in questions about 2198 until the contest was over. (Although SOME people are already asking questions.
Here are some questions of my own.
1. Do Arthur and his comrades go on a quest to retrieve the Holy Grail. (I think I've seen yes in the archive). If so, does this pit the against Percival/Duval, the leader of the Illuminati.
2. Does Macbeth get involved.
1. Eventually and yes.
2. A bit.
Time to ramble...
Picking up right where Part Three leaves off, Demona is forced to back off on killing Elisa right away because of Bronx. I really like that scene, mostly for how it illustrates Bronx's level of sophistication. It's not like he understands English, beyond a few simple names and commands. But he understands tone of voice. Something that Demona uses. She talks him down by saying nasty things in a nice tone of voice. He's still suspicious. But as long as her actions and tone don't get hostile, he's content to back off. At one point though, she can't restrain her venom, and he starts to growl again. And she has to regain her composure.
Great Choral music during the battle. Carl Johnson and music editor Marc Perlman (both of whom will be attending the Gathering this June in Los Angeles) did a magnificent job with this.
And there's some great fog as well.
It's also nice to see a legitimately joyful Demona, hoisting Macbeth into the air. He laughs, but his mind's on other things, wondering why Bodhe wanted to talk to him without Demona present. Perhaps he's feeling guilty. Perhaps she picks up on that, which is why she eavesdrops.
A tragedy of bad timing: My sense is that Macbeth is about to read Bodhe the riot act, when Luach interrupts. Mac essentially agrees with Luach, but not with his manner. He takes JUST the wrong moment to teach him a lesson about being a good king. Luach reacts badly and storms out. And it is Luach's behavior that Macbeth is considering when Demona leaves. Two seconds later, I'm quite sure the conversation went like this:
Bodhe: "Well, sire?"
Macbeth: "Well, what?"
Bodhe: "The Gargoyles, sire. You must disavow them!"
Macbeth: "Don't be a fool." etc.
The siege is pretty cool too. (Though you'd think boulders dropped from the battlements would be a touch more effective.)
Mac rescues Gruoch. Even at this age, I still think they're a sexy couple.
I like the scene where Canmore removes his Hunter's Mask. Like Gille before him with Demona, he's truly annoyed when Mac doesn't immediately recognize him.
"Never would I have done so! We have been allies for thirty-seven years!!" Demona ain't a great judge of character.
Luach and Bodhe show up. I like this scene too. (O.K., I'm partial. What can I tell you?) Bodhe has an interesting moment. One of two things happens here. Either he's pleased to finally have one of his own blood (i.e. his grandson) installed as King or the death of Macbeth has finally awakened the hero inside him. Or both. For once, I tend to give Bodhe the benefit of the doubt. I think, at this late date, he's finally come into his own. I like to think he died a good warrior's death at Luach's side.
Demona wakes up. She claims not to believe Gruoch's admonishment, but NOTE, she does not kill Gruoch. Underneath it all, she knows that Gruoch is right and feels chastened.
Macbeth wakes up. Here we have our final scene on Lunfanan Hill. It parallels the previous break-up of Mac and Gru. That time Mac sent her away, but he loved her still. This time she sends him away. She loves him too. But this parting is permanent. Very moving to me. "I will always love you." And because of that, he must leave her. But we know he hasn't forgotten her even into the present. Her loss informs what follows.
Back to the present. Over episodes two and three, things in the present have been progressing very slowly. Now the present takes center stage.
Demona echoes what I'm sure by this time we were all thinking: "Take off that mask. You aren't fooling anyone... Macbeth." And he explains that he wears it as a symbol of her betrayal. (And for a psychological edge, no doubt.)
Meanwhile, we have that semi-feeble exchange between Goliath and Xanatos in the air. Feeble (a) because in one little scenelet, the mouth on Xanatos' armor is moving like it had lips; and (b) because the whole tapestry thing was a fairly forced way to get X and Goliath back to the castle.
I like Demona's line: "Let's not start that again. You blame me. I blame you..." etc. It's a very rational Xanatosian moment for her. But that rationality is born from the knowledge that she can't kill Macbeth without killing herself. Her usual vengeful attitude is useless. What she doesn't know is how suicidal he is. "Revenge is a dish best served cold. And I have waited 900 years for mine." Hey, leave a dish out for 900 years and it will get pretty cold.
There's always a bit of comedy in the pain-sharing battles of D&M.
When the floor starts to give way, it reminds me of a scene that was WAY better animated in the DuckTales pilot. Where the bricks of gold fall away in a simlilar vein. It's nice here, but it was awesome there.
I also like when Demona has Mac's E-M gun, tosses it and catches it to fire at X and G. Nice little touch.
And Xanatos' truly frightened yet underplayed: "This is bad." when he sees the computer screen.
I like the multiple falls that get us down to the Atrium -- a wonderful setting for the final confrontations.
And Goliath's speech: "...Death never does."
Again we get multiple images of the Sisters throughout this scene. And again, I had to fight for that.
Each Sister gets to take a mental punch to weaken first Macbeth and then Demona. Are they being hypocrites here? One aspect of their persona is, certainly. But there's more going on, some of which I still haven't revealed.
But the key thing in terms of this scene (and the events of AVALON) is that both Mac and Demona need to be mentally weakened for the spells of control that the Sisters are going to use on them in HIGH NOON and AVALON. And M&D need to borderline volunteer to relinquish control over themselves. Macbeth, who has been suicidal, is tired and willing. Demona's tougher. But even she doesn't put up much of a fight. "You tricked me." she says. And certainly they have, but she can't break the grip of three children, and though of course they are not ordinary children, one must wonder if she really wanted to.
Goliath: You have learned nothing.
The sisters (as children) say their cool (and ironic) line: "We have written their stories. They are our responsibility. They are our children." My three year old son Ben says: "I love the triplets."
But theirs is a story for another day.
Xanatos really has to sweat in this one. Unusual for him. I love his line to Bronx: "What are you looking at?"
But once the skies burn, he's back to his old self: "Magnificent." Believe it or not, it took some effort to really get the skies burning. The animation came back with only a few contrails of gas burning. We used video tricks to get that whole sky-burning effect that was SO important to the story.
When the gargs rush back inside they were supposed to lift Elisa up into the air in their joy at seeing her unstoned again. Thus you have contrast to explain Xanatos' line to Owen, "You'll forgive me, if I just shake your hand." (But you also have to wonder how he'd respond to Fox when next he saw her.)
And Xanatos gives a line I'd been waiting to use for a year. "I always wondered why I allowed you gargoyles to live. You come in handy now and then." I had always worried that an audience raised on certain villain cliches would just assume that the reason Xanatos never killed the gargs on one of the myriad occasions when he had the chance, was because we were bad writers. This X/G exchange was here to demonstrate that X wasn't that kind of villain. That he was never wasteful. Maybe at this point in the series, it wasn't necessary to spell it out. But it was still nice to get the sentiment across.
Of course, this ends the Xanatos/Demona partnership. Uneasy though it had been. It's why VOWS had to come first.
And that's my ramble...
Time to ramble...
So the sun rises on the next day. Elisa IMMEDIATELY starts talking, even though she's facing the wrong way, putting to the lie all those nice fans who tried to make excuses for why she was animated facing that direction.
It's also kind of cool to watch Goliath and Brooklyn turn to stone and then see Owen turn from stone to flesh. He's got that URGENT-Owen tone going there for a sec, then quickly regains his usual Owen composure. It's fun.
There's a line in here about mixing magics, which was supposed to be a vague, vague cover for later revelations that Owen is Puck. Owen suggests getting the Grimorum from Goliath. X responds it wouldn't do any of them any good since none of them are sorcerors and MIXING MAGICS is supposed to be dangerous. That last phrase is REALLY a reference to a notion in X's head, that Puck might be able to help. X than rejects the notion himself. He's right about mixing magics, but that isn't the main reason that Puck won't help. Puck won't help because that's not the deal that Owen made with Xanatos.
I like Xanatos' casual confidence though: "We'll just have to set the sky ablaze."
Travis scene is fun for me too. Gives me one of those oblique opportunities to semi-break the fourth wall. A woman comes up, tells Travis the truth. He discounts her story, nominally because she doesn't watch television. Anyone who doesn't watch television must be a kook. Now a report on Mass Hypnosis... (That last bit is in there to explain in passing what the world response to the City of Stone events is likely to be.)
FLASHBACK TIME: Duncan has a beard. "Some cousins are not that close." I love how Neil Dickson read that line. And I love Duncan's genuine surprise when Mac saves his life.
Mac saves Demona again. Proving what a good, loyal guy he is.
And then we bring in the Weird Sisters, in the most SHAKESPEAREAN scene in City of Stone.
But first let's talk about the title. I LOVE that title. "CITY OF STONE". I think it was one of mine. But I have to admit it's flawed. Though it's spooky and evocative it really only covers the present day story. The present day story is certainly important, but I think we'd all agree that the real juice in this four-parter is in the tenth and eleventh centuries. And the title doesn't really cover that stuff at all. I didn't notice it at the time, because the importance of the flashbacks snuck up on me. At first I thought they would simply inform the action in the present. But it wound up being more of the reverse. Still I like the title. It sounds like a Movie title to me. What do you guys think?
Anyway, we bubble, bubble, toil and trouble it a bit. I love the nasty expressions that Canmore and Luach shoot each other. [I also love J.D. Daniels work as Canmore. He's such a little nasty. Great contrast to his work as the goody-good kid Tom.]
I'm fairly certain that we screwed up on Luach's name. The name should have been Lulach. But a typo got us stuck on Luach. At first I thought maybe either name would be accurate, like Malcolm and Maol Chalvim. But now I think we just blew it.
I love Luna's line: "You would lecture US on fate."
Erin, my six year old daughter, began to get very annoyed with Duncan here. "Why doesn't he give Macbeth one chance? He just saved his life! Duncan is a fraidy-cat. And stupid." I love a good judge of character. When Bodhe ("Be reasonable, Macbeth") tells Mac that Duncan's after him, and Mac can't believe it, Erin felt quite vindicated, "See, [Mac] just asked the same question that I did."
I like Mac's sad line to Gruoch: "The Journey will be brief."
And I like D and Mac's exchange:
Mac: "You are the answer."
D: "I'm uninterested in the question."
Ben, my three year old son, was having a little trouble with how fast everyone was aging. He didn't always get that the flashbacks weren't taking place right after each other. He got the difference between past and present. But not that we kept leaping forward from say 1032 to 1044 etc. "That's a different Demona," he would say, before I explained that she was just getting older. It then occured to me that I'm not even sure if he knows that white hair specifically signifies old age in a cartoon. After all, Brooklyn's hair is white. So's Luna's, in all her forms. (It's supposed to be silver, but it looks white most of the time.)
Mac is surprised, and not a little freaked out, to hear that there's still a Hunter out there. With Gill dead, he has no clue who it could be.
He offers an alliance, and Demona -- clearly thinking of the Captain of the Guard -- says, "You sing an old song." That, for me, helped tie in our Wyvern flashbacks to the whole Mac/Demona story. I was always afraid they weren't really related enough.
The whole thing with the Sisters looking different depending on the point of view, was another idea of mine that most people thought I was nuts about. (Like having characters unaware of the change in themselves in "The Mirror".) It worked just fine, and in many ways is clearer than any alternative I can think of. But man, I had to WORK to convince people.
The sisters are pretty tricky here, they use the barest excuse of an offered trade to more or less enforce their will on Mac and D. Bending Oberon's law without breaking it. That's not too important here, but will obviously be important in later episodes.
The clues of course are planted in the spell. "Forever and eternal bound and each the other's pain resound." How many people got the implication here as opposed to figuring it all out when the sisters explained it near the end of part four?
Seline handing Mac that magic ball was another instance of us cheating a bit. We were sick of using the fall to the death shtick. But we couldn't just have Duncan skewered. So this was an S&P compromise. The good news was it looked pretty cool. Brief but scary. It even seems to scare Mac.
When Gruouch says that she's afraid Mac's made "a bad bargain," she was supposed to touch his hair to give a visual reminder that he had given up his youth to protect his clan -- and that it scared and saddened her more than a little. I gave that note over and over, but somehow it never got in there. It still works, but I really wish she had run her fingers through his hair there.
D likes Mac and Gruoch here. Look at her face. Maybe she sees a bit of herself and Goliath in them. (With Gruoch as Goliath, of course.)
I like the battle too. It's very economical staged, yet it feels kinda epic to me. Very smartly story-boarded. I really like Demona's clean sweep of Duncan's cavalry off their horses.
Mac says: "You fight like a demon." Laying the groundwork for Demona to get named. This was a bit of an argument with S&P. "Demon" was supposed to be an off-limit word for us. I convinced Adrienne Bello it was important to justify Demona's name. And my bosses backed me up. (That never happens anymore, by the way.)
There's a character in here that we never name except in the credits. He's Duncan's right hand man and Demona appears to brain him by flying him head first into a big rock. He's called MacDuff in the credits. Obviously, another name from Shakespeare. I think maybe he didn't die, but became an ally of Canmore's in part four. But I'm not sure. I know that in part Three, Charlie "Travis Marshall" Hallahan did his voice. In part Four, the character I'm thinking of (both of whom have red hair at least) is voiced by Jeff Bennett.
M&D find the mask with Duncan, and Mac says, "so the battle is truly over for us both." Which is majorly ironic, since we know the battle will continue for at least 900 years.
Bodhe comes out from the background only after "THE NIGHT IS WON!"
Bodhe, though contemptuous, is a very fun character to write. I love his little aside about Canmore: "He'll be trouble; slay him now." We like Mac better that he won't kill a child. But you'll notice that Demona won't kill the kid either.
The coronation is fun. That whole naming sequence is fun.
M: "They will learn to respect you."
D: "I'd rather they feared me."
M: "They'll do that too... 'Demona'"
A nice bow tied on that "Know her?!! I named her!!" line from way back in "Enter Macbeth".
Now as we prepare to segue back to the present, Erin recognizes the three sisters as serving wenches "Because of their hair". To which Ben says, "Me too". But when we get to the present, neither realize that the sisters are also posing as cops. Mostly, because they're police hats largely cover their hair.
Now finally, back to Elisa. Confused as hell, but beginning to catch on at the mention of PackMedia Studios. She heads for the Eyrie. X's response: "Ah, the charming Detective Maza." Love that guy.
Owen and Elisa do their little dance and we get to play a gargoyle recurring bit with them as they freeze into stone mid-argument. At this point my kids catch on to the basic rules. (All of which might have been clearer if we hadn't had such a big gap between watching part two and part three). Erin: "So the humans are the opposite of the Gargoyles. When they turn to stone, the others wake up."
Xanatos starts explaining the plan, and my son turns to me and says, "Daddy, I have to tell you something." [Which is how he starts most conversations these days.] "I had a lot of dreams about fire in the sky." I'm not sure if I believe him, but it was a nice conversation piece.
I like the way Goliath looks at Elisa when he says, "This has to work." Feelings showing.
Then everyone leaves to go pass gas. :) [I know. I'm really mature.]
Bronx goes after the tapestry. We wanted to keep that subtle so that we weren't tipping our hand. Did anyone wonder about that or did it just slide by? Did anyone remember at the cliffhanger that Bronx had been left behind to save Elisa?
Anyway, there's my ramble. Where's yours?
We've all been awaiting this ramble for a long time, and no doubt, the coming weeks will be VERY enjoyable. :)
CITY OF STONE, PT 1.
I'll admit to you that the opening terrorist sequence wasn't all that effective to me. It came off rushed. But it provided an excellent transition to Demona. And then... THE FLASHBACK. The first of many. My God, this was glorious. I always imagine that if I were to ever show off Gargoyles to someone new in under 5 minutes I'd show them this flashback. Even though deductive reasoning filled the holes that this flashback does in, it was still such an experience actually seeing it take place, like witnessing history. The Wyvern Massacre was the defining moment of the series. And now, to see the behind-the-scenes was breathtaking beyond description. Demona's tearful turn to stone, then horrific discovery at sundown were amazing. That 'blood-curdle' music is just great, too.
Let's see, I can't go on like this with every scene, so I'll try to sum up from here.
You mentioned it was originally going to be a three-parter. Allow me to accidentally spit my drink all over my keyboard at reading that. Even now, I think about how much better it could've told its story with five or even six parts. Just three? Impossible. There is so much jammed in there. Too much, really. I'm glad you're here for insight, because I'll be honest: I got scarcely any of what you had in mind for various characters' motivations and inter-relating. Everything was crunched to 'sound bites' and didn't get enough flesh for me to interpret what you were aiming for. Of course, I got all the necessary things needed to understand the flow of the story, but I regret not getting the rest...
This is completely random, but I just thought I'd say that when Macbeth removes his Hunter's Mask later, in Part 4 I think, I like how his hair was ruffled. A nice touch. Very appreciated.
Anyway, to do with Part 1, I have really one more comment. I think the "mistake" you made with the Weird Sisters in their portrayel in this multi-parter has to do with just one key scene... aww, crap, here I go referring all the way to Part 4 again. Oh well, the scene in question is the very end, the "they are our responsibility... our children... that is a story for another day" scene. Up until then, I believe our impression of the Sisters was of benevolent helpers, like you wanted us to believe, according to your memos. However, in this scene, they suddenly "reveal" that they actually had a reason for helping them. That there is a greater design. That Demona and Macbeth have destinies to fulfill. I, and I'm sure most other people, suddenly got insanely excited thinking that D&M were going to be instrumental in saving the world from some great prophecy or something. But as it turns out, it's just a petty strike on an island...
Just my take. (I'd be interested - if this doesn't sound like me usurping your forum, Greg - in what others' takes were.)
Lastly, I just thought I'd mention that, ironically, I was talking with a friend this morning about the play Macbeth. I mentioned Gargoyles and off-handedly about its superior historical accuracy, to which Friend reponded that Macbeth, the play, was fiction. I insisted there really was a Macbeth and Duncan, but he was convinced otherwise. Interesting, huh?
Of course, I myself thought it was all made-up by you and the makers of the show till I looked it up in my Encyclopedia, to see what kind of historical "damage" you were doing in drawing these elaborate tales set in real countries' pasts... heh.
Again, the sisters have many aspects. Like the moon. Vengeance was certainly one. Petty vengeance at that. But they have other motivations as well. That is a story for another day.
(And I'm always interested in other takes. I welcome them here.)
As to Macbeth and the legends/history, we always tried to be as accurate as we could. Not necessarily out of benevolence, but because the truth, when mixed with our gargs, made for such GREAT stories!
You're friend needs to be dragged into a library. It never bothers me when people don't know things. But it sure is disturbing when they're positive they know something and they're wrong.
I don't think you've ever clarified this, and it doesn't seem to be in the archives, so:
How does the Macbeth-Demona immortality spell work? Does it miraculously repair their bodies after they suffer death-worthy damage, like beheading or being smashed in stone sleep? Does it arrange events/luck so that anything that would physically kill any normal person simply never hits them? Or has there simply been no incident where Demona or Macbeth suffered what would be fatal injury?
You couldn't have checked the archives too carefully, because I've dealt with this MANY times. There have been no incidents where Mac or Demona have suffered a fatal injury that was objectively fatal, like a beheading or being smashed in stone sleep. They've been stabbed, shot, etc. But nothing CATASTROPHIC. When they are shot or stabbed, they heal -- ironically, the more severe the injury, the faster they heal. That is, if the spell has to be invoked to save them, they heal quickly, because they are healing magically. But if the injury wasn't fatal in the first place, than the spell is not invoked and each heals at his or her normal rate. For Demona, she'll TEND to be fully healed by the next sunset. Mac might take a little longer. He's human, and he's also biologically older.
Time to ramble...
Xanatos again does equally well as hero and villain, as he opens the episode saving his and Fox's lives.
He's got some nice lines here too:
Another reprise of Launchpad McQuack's old: "Any landing you can walk away from..."
"At least she's not chipped."
"Demona and I need to have a little talk."
"No sense hailing a cab." Or stealing one. I'm not sure if it's clear, but we wanted to give the impression that traffic was hopelessly stalled by all the stone people behind the wheels of their cars. And that Xanatos would have to hoof it.
And then it's back to the clock tower where my favorite line is Brooklyn's as he's looking at what he thinks is a statue of Elisa:
"The nose is all wrong." Gotta love a critic.
Goliath doesn't objectively know that the statue is really Elisa, but his instincts are clearly firing up early warning signs.
Meanwhile, my daughter Erin is busy advising all of us: "They should make sure... cuz that's really her!" and "I bet they're going to Elisa's house." Which they weren't.
Originally, we had planned to (as usual) leave Hudson behind with Bronx. But we switched it to Broadway, so that Hudson could come with and reestablish his fine relationship with Robbins. I should point out that we BEGAN work on City of Stone before Lighthouse. We knew we needed a blind man for City. That blind man was then developed for Lighthouse, making for a great scene in City. Sometimes, things just seemed to work.
Brooklyn still hates Demona intensely. Forcing Goliath to compensate.
My son Ben was all nervous that "They're gonna turn to stone again." He was vague on who the "THEY" were.
Demona's reign of terror on the statues presented us with interesting S&P problems -- and some bizarre but VERY FUN solutions. Adrienne understood the necessity of having Demona blow up and/or smash a few of the stone humans. Even though the implication was death for those people. She was okay with it on the condition that we didn't spell it out, because, at worst, the death's were so fanciful, they certainly weren't imitatible. But she did want us to limit the number of deaths. So at one point she nixed the idea of blowing up yet another statue, but allowed us to blow up the shopping bags (and hand and arm) of one. This seemed less harsh to her. Of course, bloodthirsty lot that we were, we loved it. Because if you think about it, it was certainly more horrific come sunrise.
I finally saw the two statues that people thought were Brendan & Margot. Certainly, they looks like them a bit. But trust me. Two different people got destroyed. That woman was a brunette. And the guy was wearing a toupee.
At this point, Benny became as concerned as Goliath that Demona would shoot Elisa.
Then we segued into our flashback and Benny was still trying to figure out why Demona scratched Gillecomgain in the previous episode. Erin, meanwhile, wanted to know why Gille was wearing a mask.
Me, I'm still fascinated with Bodhe for some reason. I love how he talks big at first, until Mac makes it clear that he's not going to obey. Then he goes into pleading mode.
I also love the scene with Gruoch on Lunfanan Hill. Very heartbreaking and romantic. Did kinda make me wonder what would have happened if Macbeth had just said "Screw it!" and spirited Gruoch away with him. What would there lives have been like then?
The Weird Sisters are fun at the wedding. I like the line: "Certainly not our hero." It's one of those self-aware-tv-moments-that-ride-the-edge of which I'm so fond.
I also really like Duncan's scene with Macbeth after the wedding. He's such a manipulative bastard.
And now we begin to parallel similar scenes in City One. The Weird Sisters again go to Demona to get her to ally with Mac.
Demona: "Ally with a human. Never Again." Well, obviously Demona should never say never again, but in this context she's thinking about her alliance with the Captain and the tragedy that led to.
There's a nice little beat with Gruoch's rose. Gruoch seems cold to her new husband Gillecomgain. We wonder if we should feel some sympathy for a man who has married a woman who loves another. We wonder if he has feelings for her as he gently takes up the rose she was sniffing. But then he crushes it underfoot, so basically we feel okay about hating him again.
Erin asked: "Why'd he step on it?"
And I didn't want to answer, because the writers are trying to manipulate you.
Ben answererd for me: "Because he's a bad hunter." A much cleaner explanation, don't you agree?
Notice here that Mac is not yet the fighter that he someday will be.
Notice also if you watch all four parts of City of Stone together that Emma Samms who voiced Gruoch -- but had never done voice work before -- gets progressively better with every episode. She's somewhat stiff in City One. As with many live-action actors, she's unused to using her voice alone to project subtleties. She's a bit better here. But by City Four, she's rockin' the joint with some really powerful work. I can't remember when I've ever seen any performer push the learning curve that quickly. Most either get it or don't. A few of those who don't, slowly improve with practice. Emma just revved UP.
Did anyone else feel that we went to the well with that long drop from the Terrace at Castle Moray once or twice too often? Again, we were trying for parallelism, but I hope it didn't get boring.
Erin: "I like Macbeth when he was a little boy. I don't like him when he's a grown up." (I think she meant she liked the younger red-headed heroic Macbeth in general in these City flashbacks. Didn't like him as a present day villain in Enter Macbeth, etc. This actually pleases me a great deal. It's the ability to create sympathy in villains that separates Gargoyles from many of its rivals.)
I love that moment when Demona rips the mask off. Gille indicates his scars, "'Tis you're handiwork, remember?" And Demona honestly and simply answers "No." And he goes BERSERK! Bad enough she scratched him and altered the entire course of his life. But that the event was so insignificant to her that she doesn't even remember it...! Now THAT pisses him off.
Gillecomgain should have known: "Live by the drop, die by the drop." As he follows Findlaech's course to doom.
I also like the little moment o' connection between Mac, Gruoch and Demona. Demona actually says Thank You to a human.
And another wedding. Two in one episode. Bodhe introduces: "Lord and Lady Macbeth!" I wanted to get the designation 'Lady Macbeth' in here somewhere. Just to provide more obvious contrast between our version of Gruoch and Shakespeare's.
I also get a kick out of the chilling little scene back in the present with Brooklyn & Goliath. Brooklyn bringing up the "Massacre at Castle Wyvern". Fearing that Elisa could wind up a victim too. This sets Goliath off to the point where he is CLEARLY thinking that he needs to KILL Demona now. "Once and for all." And then those creepy little stone Weird Sisters. Yikes.
Then Xanatos has finally made it across town and is back in hero mode. He saves Owen. And shuts off the broadcast, clearly thinking that that will break the spell. At least, I hope that was clear. Honestly, I'm not sure if it was. I wanted the audience to think that would work. Then be surprised when it doesn't. Did that work for anyone?
The "Hunter" shows up. Demona at first recognizes only the mask. How many times must I destroy you?! she says. A hint to events in the past of both City and Hunter's Moon. But than when she sees him feeling her pain, she knows exactly who's behind that mask. I'm curious how many people picked up on that. This was the first time we showed them feeling each other's pain. The first time we had them in real proximity to each other.
Their fight is kinda cool. There's a neat moment when Macbeth is flying Demona like a kite. And he's very gutsy throughout, leaping after her. Of course, he's semi-suicidal, so it's no surprise he's fearless. But we don't know that yet.
And finally, our cliffhanger. X is so sanguine. "You want vengeance or a solution?" And we end on a surprising image: Goliath and Xanatos shaking hands. Now, it's like no big deal. They ended up teaming upfrequently. But I thought that then, it would be startling.
WHAT DID YOU ALL THINK?
Since I just did my ramble on City of Stone, Part One, I thought I'd reprint the "memo" on that episode. Actually, it's a memo on all four episodes. My "NOTES ON OUTLINE" to Michael Reaves. Michael's story was a three-parter and we were still hoping to turn City of Stone into a home video, so I expanded it to a four parter.
Greg Weisman 7-12-94
NOTES ON OUTLINE for "City of Stone"
O.K. O.K. I changed a lot. (Less than you probably think, but a lot.) You gave me great raw material, but I wanted to focus it more. Also since you wrote the three-part outline, this movie thing came up. Gary's informed me that they can sell it better if it's more in the 75 - 80 minute range. That freed me up to add a little more material for clarity. If we don't use it as a video, we'll make it a 4-parter instead of three. If it turns out short, we can add the bit about "Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane", which I've left out for now. We discussed some of the other changes at our lunch with Frank. But I'll reiterate them, and the reasons why, below.
Weird Sisters - The more I thought about this story, the more I came to believe that the Sisters were the key to cracking it open. Currently their role is limited, and yet they are the only characters who could see the whole picture. I definitely wanted to expand their role, particularly in the 20th century segments. But as I worked on achieving that goal, I realized that I wasn't clear on their motivation. I'd be happy to take you through all my thinking (there are probably two or three good story ideas in the stuff I rejected for the Sisters), so if you're ever curious, let me know. But cutting to the chase, here is what I wound up with...
Presentation: The three sisters (Phoebe, Seline and Luna) will always be depicted as triplets and female. The only physical distinction will be their hair color. Phoebe has golden hair, Seline has black hair, Luna has silver hair. (The same voice actress will play all three parts.) The three will rarely be seen apart. These will be the consistent visual (and aural) elements that will allow us to recognize them, because otherwise their appearance will vary from scene to scene, and sometimes within scenes. In the eleventh century, Macbeth sees them as old human crones, but Demona would see them as three old female gargoyles, even if they're both looking at them simultaneously. In the twentieth century, they might appear as three fashion model types in modern clothes. In our opening sequence Goliath will see them as three strange little nine year old girls. When speaking to others they present a united front. But personality-wise, particularly for conversations between themselves, I'd like to give them subtle differences. Phoebe is optimistic and cheerful. Seline is a cold realist. Luna is spiritual and distant.
Motivation: The sisters work hard to put Demona and Macbeth together in the eleventh century: to save them both, to hook them up and then to secretly add in the immortality thing. WHY? Obviously, they need these two for something. Something that isn't going to happen for centuries, or else why make them immortal. The obvious answer seemed to me to be the attack on Avalon. The sisters need powerful foot soldiers to attack Avalon for their master (probably a reworked Archmage [David Warner]). For a reason to be figured out later, the master won't be ready to attack until 1996. So the Sisters have time to plan ahead. They've decided that Macbeth and Demona would make the perfect foot soldiers. So they create immortal warriors who they then let walk around for a millennium. D & M become embittered and borderline nuts. Vulnerable to the Sisters machinations. Demona's "City of Stone" thing falls right into their hands. We have to assume that the Master is almost ready to attack Avalon. Time for the Sisters to take direct control of D & M. But over the millennium, D & M have become pretty savvy magically. It makes them more useful to the sisters but harder to control. The sisters help Goliath and Xanatos defeat Demona and Macbeth in this story so that they will be weak, defeated and vulnerable to the Sister's control.
Revelation: The cool thing is we don't have to reveal hardly any of the above in this story. In fact, we can almost present the exact opposite face. In the eleventh century sequences the Sisters will seem to really help the sympathetic Macbeth and largely sympathetic Demona defeat the nasty Gillecomgain and Duncan. In the 20th century sequences, they will help Goliath defeat Demona and Macbeth, and will again seem like three really useful ladies. There's no need to mention the master, the plan or Avalon. Our audience will think these three are great. Then if/when we get to do the Avalon story, we'll reveal the truth. The audience will hate them more cuz they'll feel as used and manipulated as Demona and Macbeth and Goliath, etc. were. The most we'll do is leave D & M under the Sisters' power at the end. We won't even hint at their malevolence.
Macbeth - Mac was great in the eleventh century stuff, but he and Xanatos seemed redundant in the present. I think we need to get clearer on his present motivation as well. Xanatos wants to save his city. I don't think Mac cares. Think of him as a nihilist. Past caring about anything. He wants Demona for the reasons we've already discussed. He's not interested in helping Manhattan. He's not part of the solution. He's a wild card who should in effect be part of the problem. We should see that immortality has done about the same to his disposition as it did to Demona's. He's honorable, but only up to a point. Reference his first appearance... he wouldn't attack the gargoyles as stone statues, but he had no compunction against kidnapping them to lure Demona to him. That's a fairly skewed definition of honor. Frankly, this yarn is more Macbeth's story than anyone's. We take him from youth to immortality. Through and beyond his entire natural lifespan. He's the one who learns something: Life is precious; vengeance and death accomplish nothing. Demona never learns this lesson. And Goliath really already new it. So we should emphasize the theme with Macbeth as much as possible. In many ways, he's carrying the emotional and thematic weight of our story.
Macbeth & Demona's Link - From 1040 on, neither can die unless both do simultaneously. If one kills the other, then both die. But if a third party tries to kill one without the other, then they both live. But there must be a penalty. I think they both feel each other's pain. (At least each other's physical pain.) We don't have to worry about cuts and scrapes, but any major blow that one feels, the other feels as well.
Reversing Demona's Spell - Since Mac won't be helping with a magical cure, I think we need another solution. (Kat Fair also pointed out that almost everyone would have their t.v.'s off and thus miss the counterspell.) I keep returning to the notion of a time limit to the spell that equates to "until Judgment Day". For our first spell, we had "until the castle rises above the clouds". From the Grimorum's point of view, that meant "until hell freezes over" or some equivalent. We can do the same thing here. Remember, Demona is getting this spell from a book that was written with no knowledge of modern science (let alone cartoon extrapalatory science). Heck it's in Latin. For example, "You will turn to stone at night until the seas boil and the skies burn." The solution to this is for Xanatos and Goliath to team up and find a way to make the seas boil and the skies burn, while simultaneously stopping Demona, saving the "statues" and dealing with Mac. That will focus their quest. It will also help give Xanatos something real to do. Only he has the technology to make the sky burn and the sea boil. I know you're concerned that this will be perceived by our audience as a cheat. We did the clever cheat once when we brought Goliath out of Demona's trance. But I see this as different. This equates with our original spell. The one that put our gargoyles to sleep for a thousand years. The solution was not a cheat. It took Xanatos' Herculean resources to match the spell's condition for reversal. The same can be true here. At first let's give the false impression that just by turning off Demona's broadcast, the spell will be reversed. Then when that fails, I'm gonna use the burning skies in what follows, but if you've got another idea for the spell's limit or reversal, that's cool. It's just a 'for instance'.
All them Scotsmen - A lot to keep track of. Let's simplify by focusing our villainy on Duncan & Gillecomgain. We won't ever see King Malcolm II. The nasty machiavellian thug Gillecomgain will work for the nasty machiavellian Prince Duncan, who later becomes the nasty machiavellian King Duncan. We will also introduce his young son Malcolm III, but we'll let him go by his alternate name Canmore so as not to confuse the audience. Canmore won't be evil, just misguided and righteous; he believes that Macbeth and Demona are evil. There are still a lot of characters, but subtracting Malcolm II will clean things up, I promise.
The Hunter - I've also added an element. The Mask of the Hunter. It belongs to Gillecomgain. After his death, Duncan takes it. After him, Canmore. In modern times, Macbeth will wear a modernized version of it. The identity of the Modern wearer will be a mystery to some of our audience until the end. Of course, anyone who saw "Enter Macbeth" will guess soon enough, but the Mask itself will carry frightening meaning -- the equivalent of a KKK hood -- and for those who guess it's Macbeth, the mystery will be why this Macbeth, who is so sympathetic in the past, would wear this horrible mask in the present. As we go through the eleventh century flashbacks chronologically, the conceit of the Hunter's mask will, I believe, help to focus our audience to differentiate between all the Scots, and even keep a few of them guessing as to the identity of the Modern Hunter.
Matt Bluestone - I definitely don't want Matt to have found out about the gargoyles in between the first and second seasons. He should be right where we left him. He knows they exist. He's seen them twice. But he doesn't know anything about them. And he certainly doesn't know that Elisa knows them. That's a great episode in and of itself. We don't want to toss it away in an off-hand line.
Flashbacks - I definitely want to intercut between the 10th/11th century sequences and the 20th century sequences. Without that intercutting, I'm afraid the two stories will seem largely unrelated. As often as possible, flashbacks should have a point of view: Demona's, Macbeth's or maybe the Weird Sisters', but they don't have to be presented to our other characters as stories unless that works in a given instance. Basically, we're using the same format that we used in "Long Way To Morning". Often the appearance of Demona, the Weird Sisters or the Mask of the Hunter will work as a convenient visual bridge between past and present.
Timeline - You may notice a few slight discrepancies here from the "Gargoyles Timeline" that you have. Here are the changes I made:
1. I placed Gillecomgain's birth at year @ 978 so that he would be @ 16 years old in 994 when he first meets Demona; @ 42 in 1020 when he kills Findlaech; and @ 54 in 1032 when he buys the farm.
2. I moved the wedding of Gillecomgain and Gruoch from 1030 (which was an approximate date anyway) to @ 1032, in order to compress events of that period into a more cohesive flashback.
3. Since I moved the wedding two years forward, I moved Luach's birth two years forward as well, from 1031 (another approximate date) to @ 1033. This makes Luach @ 7 years old in 1040 when his father becomes king; @ 24 in 1057 when he becomes king; @ 25 in 1058 when he is murdered.
You may want to note these changes on your timeline for future reference.
Demona - This yarn tells Demona's story. But she doesn't learn from it. We have to make sure that the audience is getting more than just a simple chronological depiction of her history. Since she doesn't learn the lessons of the past, we have to make doubly sure the audience does: Life is precious; vengeance and death accomplish nothing.
Goliath - Although this story belongs to our villains more than anyone, I think we need to thematically make it one of our leads as well. Goliath, obviously, gets the nod. Again, the theme is: Life is precious; vengeance and death accomplish nothing. If he forgets that, he will become like the villains he battles. "Every life is precious" applies to how he feels about all those human statues (particularly Elisa), but also -- and this is the key -- to how he feels about Demona, as well. Goliath has to work very hard to stop Demona, and then very, very hard to save her life. (Deep down, it may have something to do with her being the last female gargoyle that he knows about and/or their past relationship, but we can generalize to the notion of life's "preciousness".) The Weird Sisters can help reinforce this. (Of course, they're lying. They want Demona alive for their own personal use. But the message will sound right here.)
I. Hostage situation - Manhattan - Night.
A. ELISA & MATT outside.
B. LEAD TERRORIST inside says the cause means everything to her.
C. Our six Gargoyles take out terrorists.
1. GOLIATH approaches terrified Lead Terrorist.
a. Leader is willing to sacrifice her men to save herself.
b. Goliath is disgusted.
c. Leader flees and nearly gets herself killed.
d. Goliath saves her, almost despite himself.
D. Hostages are clearly more frightened of Gargoyles than terrorists.
1. Trio's frustration with ungrateful humans.
E. But three hostages approach Goliath.
1. We don't yet reveal that they are WEIRD SISTERS.
a. 3 nine-year old girls named PHOEBE, SELINE & LUNA.
b. Identical triplets except for hair color.
2. They are strangely unafraid of Goliath.
a. They comment on Lead Terrorist. Something like:
i. Seline: "The cause is everything until her own life
is threatened. But it's good you saved her."
ii. Phoebe: "If you forget what she has forgotten:
that every life is precious, you'll be no different
than she. "
iii. Goliath: "I'll never be like that terrorist."
iv. Luna: "We weren't talking about this terrorist."
3. Goliath looks at lead terrorist.
a. When he looks back, the Sisters have vanished.
b. This is strange. Who could they have been talking about?
II. DEMONA... wings through Manhattan skies - Night.
A. She clutches a torn piece of parchment.
B. Push in on her for flashback.
III. Wyvern Castle before the Massacre - Scotland - Night.
A. Repeat pp. 23-24 of 4319-001.
1. CAPTAIN & Demona try to convince Goliath to take all the
gargoyles to harry the Vikings away.
2. Instead Goliath assigns Demona to guard the castle with most of
3. Goliath leaves.
B. Demona & Captain discuss situation.
1. Original plan is blown.
a. HAKON would've attacked while gargoyles were away.
b. Gargoyles would have returned to human-free castle.
2. Captain reassures her that plan can still work.
a. He'll have Hakon attack during day.
b. Humans will still be dragged away.
3. Demona worries Gargoyles will be vulnerable.
a. Captain promises to protect them.
4. Demona agrees.
IV. Just before Sunrise - Wyvern. Demona is clearly antsy.
A. For a second she may consider revealing truth to PRE-COLDSTONE.
1. But she wimps out.
B. She takes off and hides in nearby woods or somewhere.
1. She turns to stone as the sun rises.
V. Smash Cut to sunset, she explodes out of her shell .
A. She rushes toward Castle which has clearly been sacked.
B. She sees dead gargoyle rubble.
C. She sees Goliath and HUDSON approach.
1. She can't face them and flees.
2. She's losing it. talking to herself.
a. She'll return later with some excuse.
b. He'll be so glad she's alive.
VI. She returns to castle and watches from a distance - Night.
A. Just in time to see Goliath in stone at night being placed on the castle.
1. Near the stone forms of Hudson, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON,
BROADWAY & BRONX.
B. She watches KATHARINE, MAGUS, TOM and others leave.
1. They take wagon loads of Gargoyle eggs with them.
C. She takes off in opposite direction.
VII. Weeks later at a Scottish farmhouse, a starving Demona scavenges for food.
A. A sixteen year old boy [Gillecomgain] investigates the noise.
1. He holds a pitchfork, defensively.
B. Like a trapped animal, Demona slashes at him with her claws.
1. His face is hurt, but he falls back into the shadows, so we can't
2. In the shadows, the boy's eyes glower at Demona accusatorily.
C. Demona flees, saying that'll teach those humans to betray us.
VIII. Return to Present as Demona lands at Packmedia studio- Night.
A. XANATOS & OWEN are there.
1. All is ready. X had necessary equipment brought in & set up.
a. It can over-ride every broadcast channel in Manhattan.
i. Cable too.
B. She has the last stolen page from the Grimorum.
1. With it, she claims, she can steal time from other people.
a. This, she claims, is how she has remained immortal.
i. Stealing a little time at a time on a small scale.
C. By combining spell with broadcast technology...
1. They can steal one minute from the lives of everyone who watches broadcast.
2. She & X will share stolen time.
3. Given the number of people they'll reach, this'll keep them
young for a long while.
4. Spell will broadcast through the day
a. Culminate after sunset tomorrow.
i. Xanatos should return then.
D. Xan likes idea, but he's not without his suspicions.
1. Tells Owen to keep an eye on her.
2. Warns him not to simultaneously look AND listen to spellcast.
a. Xanatos leaves.
E. Demona videotapes spell.
1. Incantations; gestures; magical light show.
2. Owen listens but does not look.
a. He knows Latin and knows spell isn't what she claimed.
i. Don't tell audience what it is yet.
3. Owen puts up a good fight, but she takes him out.
a. She ties him up. Tapes his eyes open in front of monitor.
4. Puts tape in machine. Sets broadcast override. And leaves.
IX. Elisa's Apartment - Afternoon.
A. Elisa gets out of the shower and turns on t.v.
1. Remember, Elisa works the Nightwatch
a. She has slept thru the day's broadcast.
b. CAGNEY's present but ignores t.v.
2. Demona's tape plays spell over and over on t.v.
a. Elisa watches it, switching channels. But it's everywhere.
3. She plans on telling Gargoyles as soon as they wake up.
B. She heads for precinct.
X. Manhattan sidewalk - Afternoon.
A. Weird sisters watch Demona's broadcast in store window.
1. They appear to be three attractive NY fashion models.
2. A crowd of confused New Yorkers are also watching sets.
B. They discuss situation calmly.
1. Phoebe: "This is exciting. It's begins again."
2. Seline: "Concentrate, sister. Or it will all end here."
3. Luna: "There are no beginnings or endings."
a. "Remember -- it was only 975 years ago."
4. Or some such rot as they calmly walk away.
a. Tight on Demona's face on t.v. screen.
XI. Dissolve to Demona's face, older, lined by time & hardship - Dunsinane,
Scotland - Night.
A. (She's biologically in her early 40's.)
B. Demona leads a small band of gargoyles in smash and grab.
1. She uses medieval human weapons.
C. Human soldiers curse gargoyles.
1. It won't be long before the "HUNTER" wipes them out.
XII. Demona & Co. return to their Cave on Lunfanan Hill - Night.
A. She makes sure that even the gargoyles who were too weak to
participate in the raid get food.
B. Establish that she's gathered last surviving gargoyles etc.
1. The Gargoyle-Hunter has hunted them to near extinction.
2. Demona keeps them alive by sheer force of will.
C. When another gargoyle suggests making peace with humans...
1. She takes him down brutally. (As she did with Owen above.)
2. She brooks no challenge to her authority.
D. Three old, female gargoyles (Weird Sisters) arrive.
1. Demona doesn't know them, but she has no reason to fear them.
2. Sisters have spotted the Hunter near Castle Moray.
3. Now's Demona's chance to get him.
XIII. FINDLAECH, High Steward of Moray, entertains at his castle - Night.
A. Also present is his fifteen year old son MACBETH.
1. There is a strong resemblance between father and son.
B. The guests are the beautiful young GRUOCH and BODHE, her Father .
1. Clear attraction between Gruoch & Macbeth.
C. Adults discuss Macbeth's cousin, PRINCE DUNCAN.
1. A flawed young man.
2. They have their doubts about his ability to someday rule.
3. But he is to be king someday. They are loyal.
D. Gruoch and her Father go up to bed.
1. Findlaech calls for servants to clean up dinner.
a. None answer his call.
E. The Hunter steps out of the shadows.
1. He wears a distinctive mask that completely covers his face.
a. Black with red claw marks painted across it.
b. Obviously, there are eye-holes, so he can see.
2. He attacks Findlaech. No explanation or reason.
a. There is a fight, but Findlaech is killed.
[Note: Adrienne is o.k. with this death. But not with the method depicted in the outline. It would be best if we could come up with some unique (and semi-fanciful) method of killing that we can use consistently throughout movie. Talk to me and/or her about this.]
F Upstairs, Gruoch hears the fighting and rushes to help.
1. Against her cowardly father's wishes.
G. Hunter goes to kill Macbeth when Demona arrives.
1. Fierce battle between Hunter and Demona.
2. At a crucial moment, Demona must choose between saving Mac and preventing the Hunter's escape.
3. Without thinking, she saves Mac, allowing Hunter to escape.
a. Perhaps Gruoch's concern for Mac touched some long buried feelings?
H. Mac & Gruoch are grateful, but Demona leaves, disgusted with herself.
XIV. 19 year old Prince Duncan paces the floors of Edinburgh Castle near dawn.
A. The Hunter enters by a secret door and is welcomed by Duncan.
1. Hunter removes mask.
2. His face has scars matching the painted claw marks of his mask.
a. We realize that this is the boy that Demona attacked in the
3. He is identified as GILLECOMGAIN (age 42).
B. Gillecomgain reports that Findlaech is dead as ordered.
1. Though Mac lives.
C. Duncan is largely pleased.
1. Findlaech was popular.
2. With his support, Mac might have become King.
3. Without his father, Mac is just another poor relation.
D. As a reward, Duncan makes Gillecomgain the High Steward of Moray.
E. Duncan calls for a celebration.
1. Three serving wenches (the weird sisters) approach with a feast.
2. Tight in on Gillecomgain's discarded hunter's mask.
XV. An unseen man watches Demona's broadcast, muted - late afternoon.
A. He puts on a modern version of the Hunter's mask.
1. (It has no visible eye-holes. It must use special one-way lenses).
B. This new HUNTER clicks off the t.v.
1. Note: This is MACBETH in his mansion, rebuilt since 4319-008.
a. He can be dressed in his modern battle armor and duster.
b. It's o.k. if many of our viewers realize it's him, we still
won't reveal it yet.
XVI. Elisa arrives at precinct house - just before sunset.
A. Precinct phones are ringing off the hook cuz of Demona.
1. Matt & MARIA CHAVEZ dealing with calls and complaints.
B. Elisa slips upstairs to be there when Gargoyles awaken.
XVII. Xanatos' castle near sunset.
A. He gets in his helicopter heading for Studio, with Derek at pilot.
1. Derek asks if Xanatos saw Gargoyle broadcast. (Derek saw it.) a. Xanatos made a point of skipping it.
B. Phone rings. It's Owen calling from Packmedia Studios at sunset. 1. Owen has just freed himself from his bonds.
2. Owen turns to stone before he can say anything too revealing.
C. Suddenly, the copter starts to drop.
1. Derek has turned to stone next to Xanatos.
2. Chopper's going down.
XVIII. At clock tower, the Gargoyles explode out of their shells and come to life.
A. They move inside, ignorant of the day's events.
B. Elisa's "statue" stands just inside of the clock face.
[If and/or when we divide into multiple parts, I think this is where part one ends.]
1. They don't realize the statue is Elisa.
2. They assume it's a statue of her.
a. Keep in mind that gargoyles (except Goliath) haven't seen
each other as stone, because they are always stone at the same time.
3. But how did statue get here?
4. Who else but Elisa would leave it?
5. Why would Elisa give them a statue of herself?
6. And why wouldn't she wait to see their reaction?
7. And if it wasn't her, who left this here and how and why? Etc.
C. Only Goliath has seen his friends as stone.
1. He doesn't necessarily state his fear. But he's uneasy.
2. He assigns Hudson and Bronx to guard the statue.
3. He and the trio will patrol the city, as usual.
XIX. Xanatos fights to save his life.
A. Pulls chopper out of dive and brings it in for rough landing.
1. Any landing you can walk away from, hmm, Derek?
2. Derek doesn't answer. At least he's unchipped.
B. Xanatos looks around him. Everywhere people are "stoned".
1. Obviously, Demona and he need to have a little talk.
2. Pulls a mega-weapon out of the first aid kit or whatever.
3. Heads off to PackMedia Studio on foot.
XX. Goliath & Trio patrol the night skies.
A. From a height, everything seems peaceful at first.
B. But eventually they discover the "stone" populace.
1. Maybe a single blind man & his seeing-eye dog are unaffected.
a. Brooklyn talks to blind man over the barking of dog.
i. Dog is freaked out by gargoyles, not "statuary".
ii. Man doesn't realize he's talking to gargoyles.
b. Gargoyles learn about broadcast from blind guy.
i. He heard it and was told about it, but didn't see it.
ii. Gargoyles figure out the truth (including Elisa).
iii. Brooklyn is furious at Demona as usual.
c. They tell the blind man he'd better stick close to home.
C. Goliath says they'll have to split up to find Demona.
1. Brooklyn will stay with him.
a. Goliath's afraid Brooklyn's a loose cannon.
2. As for Broadway and Lex...
a. He tells them to stop by clock tower.
i. Fill Hudson in.
ii. Send him and Bronx off as a third team.
b. Broadway worries about leaving Elisa unattended.
i. G: "She's as safe in the tower as anywhere."
c. The priority now is finding Demona.
i. Lex: "But How?"
ii. Goliath is afraid that, unfortunately, finding her
will be all too easy.
XXI. On Manhattan streets we follow a highly visible trail of rubble and destruction...
A. To Demona, who is having a grand old time with the "stoners".
1. Here she blasts one with a laser-cannon.
2. There she smashes one with a medieval mace.
3. She's practically giddy, talking to herself and the "stoners".
B. She remembers her appointment with Xanatos at the studio.
1. Can't let him turn off the broadcast.
2. She heads off with impunity in that direction, continuing the
destruction as she goes.
XXII. The New Hunter [Macbeth] is flying his hover-jet through NY's night
A. Demona's broadcast silently plays over and over on a small monitor.
B. A computer voice tells us that it is tracking the t.v. override signal.
C. Soon. He says. Soon. Fade into flashback.
XXIII. Dunsinane, Near Moray -- The Original Hunter [Gillecomgain -- age 54,
but still as fit as any warrior] battles Demona (age 47).
A. It could go either way, but the sun is rising and she must flee.
B . Both swear to finish it later.
XXIV. At Castle Moray, Macbeth (age 27) and Gruoch's Father converse.
A. Mac can't believe that Bodhe is marrying his daughter off to
1. He threatens to run away with Gruoch.
B. Bodhe protests.
1. Prince Duncan has ordered the marriage.
2. If they defy the Prince, it's equivalent to capital treason.
a. There'll be no safe place for them to run.
i. Which is fine for Macbeth, but think of my
XXV. Mac & Gruoch rendezvous on Lunfanan hill as planned to run away.
A. But Mac is distant, unfeeling, unloving.
1. Tells Gruoch to marry Gillecomgain but won't give real reason.
a. Because he knows she would risk anything for him.
B. She's clearly devastated by his cold dismissiveness. (So's he.)
XXVI. The Wedding of Gillecomgain & Gruoch at Castle Moray.
A. Macbeth lurks in the back.
B. Prince Duncan (age 31) is there.
1. He's showing off his one year old son PRINCE CANMORE.
C. Maybe Gruoch's bridesmaids are the Weird Sisters.
D. After the ceremony, Duncan & Gillecomgain confab.
1. Duncan wants Gillecomgain to tie up the last loose end.
a. Kill my cousin Macbeth.
2. But Macbeth is Gille's insurance.
a. Mac's an heir to the crown and popular.
b. If Duncan gets out of line, Gill will reveal that Duncan
ordered Findlaech's death.
i. Which cousin will wind up King then?
3. Duncan is major league steamed.
XXVII. Macbeth is summoned to Prince Duncan at Edinburgh.
A. Baby Canmore plays nearby.
B. Duncan plays Mac like a lute.
1. He's just discovered something truly shocking and horrible.
2. He knows who the mysterious Hunter is...
a. The man who killed your father...
b. It's Gillecomgain.
3. Duncan laments that Gil fooled him completely.
4. Oh, if only Gillecom were gone, Duncan would:
a. Give Macbeth his rightful title: High Steward of Moray.
b. Give him Gruoch's hand in marriage.
5. But Duncan doesn't dare attack Gille openly.
a. It could start a civil war between Moray and rest of
Scotland. All would suffer.
6. Duncan shakes his head. What can be done?
XXVIII. At Moray, in a scene parallel to the death of Findlaech:
A. Macbeth steps out of the shadows to battle Gille.
B. Gruoch hears fight and comes downstairs.
C. Gill is ready to kill Gruoch to save himself.
1. He taunts paralyzed Mac.
2. He slips on the Hunter mask as final insult.
D. But Demona is here watching.
1. She had been tipped off by Weird Sisters again.
2. She didn't know which of them was the Hunter.
E. Tables turn. Mac rescues Gruoch while Dem fights Hunter.
1. Maybe in here, Gil reveals to her that he was the boy she scarred
F. Mac rescues Demona in some way.
G. Gille/Hunter buys the farm in some way.
1. Preferably by whatever method Gill used on Findlaech.
H. There is a brief moment of respect between Mac & Demona.
1. Then off she goes.
XXIX. Outside Castle Moray just after the wedding of Macbeth and Gruoch.
A. Prince Duncan puts on the Hunter's mask himself.
1. There will always be a Hunter, he says to his baby son.
a. The boy is attended by the Weird Sisters.
2. And there will always be the Hunted.
XXX. Manhattan/Night. Goliath and Brooklyn come across Demona's trail of
A. Goliath and Brooklyn are devastated.
1. This reminds them of the massacre at Wyvern.
2. Goliath: "Every life is precious."
3. Brooklyn hates Demona. "This could be Elisa."
4. Goliath erupts. NEVER!!
5. Goliath swears to put an end to Demona's evil once and for all.
B. Suddenly, three stone figures begin to speak to Goliath without
transforming back from stone -- very spooky.
1. The Weird Sisters as speaking stone versions of the nine-year old
girls that Goliath met earlier.
2. They agree that Demona must be stopped.
3. But they remind him of his own words -- every life is precious.
a. Stop her, but don't become like her.
b. Vengeance begets nothing but a vicious cycle of further
4. They advise him to follow the trail of rubble.
5. Then they crumble into rubble themselves.
C. Goliath and Brooklyn follow trail of rubble.
XXXI. Xanatos & Demona arrive at PackMedia almost simultaneously.
A. Xanatos is determined to turn off broadcast.
B. Demona is determined to stop him.
C. Big fight. (Stone Owen at risk.)
D. The New Hunter [Macbeth arrives].
1. Just seeing that mask drives Demona to fury.
2. But she's not nuts, she flees.
3. Hunter fires off a cable attachment that wraps around her ankle.
4. As she flies off, he holds on by cable -- determined.
E. All this allows Xan to shut down broadcast.
1. He expects Owen to turn back to flesh.
2. Owen does not.
XXXII. In the skies above Manhattan, the Hunter tries to hold on and nail
A. Big aerial sequence.
B. Ultimately, Demona shakes him (roughly) and flees.
1. Let's subtly indicate somewhere in here that when one is hurt
both feel pain.
C. He summons his hover-thing. He hasn't given up.
XXXIII. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive at PackMedia Studio.
A. They find Xanatos (and stone Owen) and evidence of battle.
B. Goliath is accusatory, but Xan disarms him by copping to his mistake.
1. "Do you want vengeance...or a solution?"
C. They declare a temporary truce and form an uneasy alliance.
1. They shake on it.
[And this is where Part II would end if and/or when it becomes a Multi-Parter.]
XXXIV. Morning at clock Tower. Elisa transforms back to flesh and blood.
A. Note: she does not explode out of stone shell. She transforms back.
1. Difference between Gargoyles organic process and her magical
B. She has no idea what happened to her.
1. But "two seconds ago" it was sunset.
2. Now it's sunrise and the gargoyles have vanished.
3. Did she lose the entire night?
4. She exits clock tower.
XXXV. Back at the Studio, Owen has transformed to Flesh in front of Xanatos.
A. Xan starts to explain what happened to Owen.
1. But Owen's figured it out.
2. So Xan tells Owen about Gargoyle alliance.
a. Good. Owen suggests searching Grimorum for
b. No good. Even if there's one in there none of us "good
guys" knows how to use magic.
3. Xanatos asks Owen for the exact terms of spell.
a. Owen translates from Latin:
i. "You will turn to stone each night until the sky
4. Xanatos: "Then we'll just have to set the sky ablaze."
a. "Hurry. We've only got 12 hours."
XXXVI. TRAVIS MARSHALL reports.
A. People are panicked.
B. The mysterious broadcast has ceased.
C. But most everyone in the city, including this reporter, has no memory
of the past night.
D. He interviews hysterical woman who claims everyone turned to stone.
2. Incidentally, she missed the broadcast. Doesn't watch t.v.
a. Therefore, she must be crazy.
E. Experts theorize mass hypnosis?
XXXVII. New Hunter [Macbeth] watches report.
A. He can't believe Demona slipped through his grasp again.
B. Fade into flashback.
XXXVIII. The royals hike leisurely up Lunfanan Hill on a gloomy, foggy
A. Duncan (age 39) is there. He is now High KING of Scotland.
1. With him is his son Prince Canmore (age 9).
B. Macbeth (age 35) is also there with his son LUACH (age 7).
C. All are trying to make nice.
D. Duncan nearly falls to his death. Macbeth saves him.
E. Duncan is more stunned at Mac's loyalty than grateful.
1. He tells Mac he had his doubts, but now he's convinced Mac's a
F. Suddenly, they come upon cave of stone gargoyles including Demona.
G. Duncan goes to destroy them starting with Demona.
H. Macbeth intervenes; pleads for them.
1. Duncan reluctantly acquiesces.
a. Doesn't like it, but the guy did just save his life.
I. They start down the mountain.
J. They meet the Weird Sisters in their Old Crone Shakespearean guise.
1. "Double, double toil and trouble: Fire burn; and cauldron
2. The Weird Sisters hail all four of them as Kings of Scotland.
3. Macbeth protests. Duncan is king.
a. Sisters: King now. But each of you shall be king in turn.
b. Mac: Certainly Prince Canmore, but not him & Luach...
c. Sisters: We have spoken.
K. The sisters vanish.
1. The two boys look at each other suspiciously.
2. Macbeth tries to write it off as nonsense.
3. Duncan (who's been quiet) agrees.
a. But we can see he's already plotting. Dissolve...
XXXIX Lunfanan again, later that day, with Duncan and some men.
A. Suspicious of Macbeth's relationship to the gargoyles.
B. He plans on attacking Macbeth with his army.
1. Doesn't want gargoyles to help Macbeth.
C. Hates to attack so near to sunset, but tomorrow he might not be able to
D. He puts on the Hunter's mask.
E. He gets up mountain in time to destroy maybe one or two gargoyles.
F. But the sun sets and Demona (age 51) and the others explode to life.
1. Still, all Demona can do is flee with her band.
2. She's getting old, weak.
a. Who will lead after she's gone?
b. If only there were some way to regain her strength and
i. She must seek the Weird Sisters.
XL. Castle Moray. Old Bodhe warns Macbeth that Duncan's bringing an
A. Macbeth has his loyal retainers, but they can't defeat Duncan.
B. He can't protect his family.
C. Old Bodhe (cowardly as ever) suggests Mac surrender.
1. If he does, Duncan might spare Luach and the rest.
D. Macbeth agrees.
1. He says a cryptic "I love you" to wife and child and rides away.
XLI. Night in the misty wilderness. Lost, Macbeth and Demona stumble upon
A. Mac begs Demona to help him defend his family.
1. He promises to help her keep the gargoyles safe.
2. She's heard that before. What guarantee does she have?
B. Suddenly, the Weird Sisters appear from the mist.
1. We see that Mac sees them as Old Human Crones.
2. While Demona simultaneously sees them as Gargoyle crones.
C. Sisters suggest an act of good faith. Is there anything Demona wants?
1. Demona wants youth.
2. Would Mac be willing to trade?
3. Anything to save his family.
D. Sisters arrange trade. Magic light show, incantations and morphing.
1. Demona becomes the young Demona we are familiar with.
a. A permanent change from this point on.
2. Mac becomes the older Macbeth we are familiar with.
a. From this point on, he's permanently in his early fifties.
3. Any of our audience that speaks Latin will learn about the
E. Sisters send the new allies off with one last tidbit:
1. "Duncan gave Gillecomgain all his orders."
XLII. Bothgoanan, Scotland. Night. Mac's forces and Duncan's are ready to
A. Calm before storm. Gruoch and Luach are there.
1. She touches Mac's grey hair gently.
2. She's afraid he made a bad deal.
B. Demona enters tent. It is time.
C. Old Bodhe takes Gruoch and the boy behind the lines to safety.
D. Mac and Demona go to join there forces and face the enemy.
XLIII. The Battle of Bothgoanan. Night.
A. With the gargoyles help, Mac's forces are winning.
1. Mac calls admiringly to Demona: "You fight like a demon!"
B. Duncan is killed in some way. (Preferably the same way Find & Gil
1. Hunter's mask is found as evidence he was responsible for
2. Macbeth is hailed as new High King of Scotland.
C. Prince Canmore is brought forward.
1. Old Bodhe urges the young boy's death.
2. Macbeth refuses. He will banish the boy.
a. Send him to stay with relatives in England.
b. No one notices that Canmore steals the Hunter's mask.
XLIV. The coronation of Macbeth at Scone. Night.
A. Demona, Luach, Gruoch and Old Bodhe are all there and happy.
B. Macbeth makes Demona his primary advisor.
1. He promises a golden age in human/gargoyle relations.
2. He promises that the humans will learn to respect her.
a. She'd rather be feared.
b. Mac: "They'll do that too... 'Demona'"
i. She likes her new name.
3. The happy golden age begins.
a. Everyone cheers. Humans and gargoyles alike.
b. The Weird Sisters, disguised as serving women, smile.
XLV. Precinct, late afternoon. The Weird Sisters, disguised as cops, help out cheerfully amid the panic.
A. Elisa confers with Matt and Maria.
1. FCC has tracked down source of Broadcast.
a. Packmedia Studios show signs of conflict, but no hard
b. But Elisa knows who owns Packmedia.
i. But she's not saying anything 'til she knows the
extent of gargoyles involvement.
XLVI. In the Great Hall of Xanatos' Castle before sunrise, Owen and Xanatos (in
his armor sans helmet for the time being) are hard at work.
A. They are outfitting all of the Steel Clan robots with special packs.
1. Including Xanatos' own armor.
2. They have extra packs for the gargoyles who should arrive just
3. The audience doesn't yet know what the packs are for.
4. There's a lot of other temporary equipment set up, as well.
B. Elisa arrives ready to blame Xanatos for everything.
1. Owen: "Mr. Xanatos is trying to fix things. What are you
doing to help?!"
C. Before she can answer, the sun goes down.
1. Owen and Elisa turn to stone.
2. X: "That's one way to settle an argument."
D. All six of our gargoyles arrive.
1. Hudson & Broadway carry Bronx between them.
E. Xanatos explains plan.
1. Steel Clan Robots, Gargoyles and Xan will fly in pre-arranged pattern over the island of Manhattan.
2. They will carry packs that will distribute a harmless gas.
3. At a pre-set time, the packs will explode, igniting gas.
a. A time-counter on the computer screen indicates the time
b. Obviously, by that time, Xanatos & gargoyles must be out
of the upper atmosphere and clear of their packs.
c. Xanatos' robots will be sacrificed to ignite gas.
4. For ten seconds the entire sky will appear to be on fire.
5. Hopefully that will break the spell.
F. Sometime during all this, Bronx starts clawing at a tapestry.
1. Xanatos tells Brooklyn it's worth a hundred grand.
2. Brooklyn shoos Bronx away.
3. A distracted Goliath sees none of this.
4. Make sure this isn't too obvious a foreshadowing.
5. Let's loose track of Bronx after this for awhile.
G. Everything's ready. Xanatos puts on his helmet.
1. Goliath approaches Elisa. This has to work.
H. Steel Clan, Xanatos, Hudson, Trio and Goliath take off with packs.
1. Keep Bronx out of sight and out of mind for now.
XLVII. Steel Clan, Xanatos and gargoyles criss-cross the night sky distributing
XLVIII. Back in Great Hall, a panel slides open behind Tapestry.
A. Demona steps out.
1. There are secrets about castle that even Xanatos doesn't know.
2. She can use computer set up to spoil Xanatos' plans.
3. But first she's gonna have some fun.
a. She approaches Elisa's stone form with her mace.
b. Didn't know this meddling human was still alive.
i. That can be rectified.
[And this ends part 3, if and/or when we go to four parts.]
B. Bronx intervenes between Demona and stone Elisa.
C. Demona temporarily backs off. She talks in a soothing voice, but:
1. She approaches computer terminal.
2. She reprograms gas-packs to explode early.
a. The computer screen time counter skips ahead quickly.
b. Xanatos & Gargoyles will die in explosion.
i. Intercut to Xan, gargs and robots in sky.
c. Not enough gas will be released to ignite the sky.
d. Then she'll use her laser-cannon to blow away Bronx,
Owen and especially Elisa.
e. Then there'll be no one left to stop her.
D. "What about me?", The Modern Hunter [Macbeth] steps out of the
1. In a frozen city, it wasn't hard to spot all those robots and
gargoyles taking off from the world's tallest building.
2. He decided to investigate and found exactly who he was looking
E. But Demona has already reprogrammed the computer access code.
1. It's too late to save the gargoyles and the city.
a. She presses a last button, locking out access to the
b. The time counter returns to a normal pace.
c. But a lot of time has been shaved off the countdown
before the pre-mature explosion of the gas-packs.
2. The Hunter doesn't care about any of that.
3. He just wants it over between them.
XLIX. At Dunsinane, the Hunter [Canmore -- age 26] leads English soldiers.
A. He is met by Demona leading a combined platoon of gargoyles and
human Scottish soldiers.
B. It's maybe a minor victory for the Hunter; more of a stalemate, really.
C. Demona leaves to inform Macbeth.
1. Demona's still confident that together, she and Mac can put
these English down & destroy the accursed Hunter for good.
a. We get sense that Mac's golden age has been working.
b. We've never seen Demona so happy and at peace with
L. Castle Moray. Macbeth confers with Old Bodhe and Luach (now age 24).
A. Macbeth wants to know why Bodhe wanted to meet without Demona.
B. Bodhe explains that the Hunter has convinced the English that Mac is
evil because Mac associates with gargoyles.
1. English got rid of their gargoyles long ago.
C. If Mac gets rid of the gargoyles, the Hunter will lose his English
D. Luach can't believe his father is listening to this crap.
1. Luach's about to leave to fetch reinforcements.
2. They haven't lost. There's no need to betray their gargoyle
E. But Macbeth says a wise king must consider all his options and then
make the correct choice.
1. He doesn't let us in on his choice.
F. And he doesn't realize that Demona has heard the whole thing.
1. She's sure Mac is going to betray the gargoyles.
LI. Demona approaches the Hunter in his camp.
A. She promises to keep her gargoyles out of his battle against Mac if the
Hunter will promise them protection.
B. He agrees.
LII. At Castle Moray, the Hunter launches his attack.
A. Macbeth is suddenly informed that the gargoyles are missing.
1. He's based his defense strategy on their aid.
a. The gargoyles were supposed to help hold off the English.
b. Long enough for Luach to launch a surprise counter-
attack with reinforcements from behind.
B. The battle is lost before Luach can arrive.
C. Gruoch begs Mac to flee with her, and he reluctantly does.
1. They take a pre-arranged escape route.
LIII. But on Lunfanan Hill, The Hunter is waiting for Mac & Gru with Demona.
A. Hunter takes off his mask, revealing himself as Canmore.
1. He is here to avenge his father Duncan and take back what he
considers to be his rightful crown.
B. Macbeth is stunned at Demona's betrayal.
1. But she knows Mac was planning to betray her first.
2. He furiously denies it, and while they fight...
C. Canmore kills Macbeth.
1. Demona doubles over with pain and seems to die as well.
2. As Gruoch cries over her husband...
3. Canmore confirms his belief that Demona & Mac were linked by
a. If one dies, both die.
b. Well, Canmore says, she betrayed Macbeth.
c. She ultimately would have betrayed me as well.
d. So it's a good thing I had all her gargoyles secretly
e. Hers was an unholy race and didn't deserve to live.
D. An Englishman alerts Canmore that Luach has arrived with Scottish
1. He performs the better part of valor and retreats for now.
E. Luach and Old Bodhe arrive and find Gruoch crying over Macbeth.
1. The horrible sight makes Luach more determined than ever to
stop the English.
2. Even Bodhe's courage finally seems to awaken inside him.
a. He takes Macbeth's crown and gives it to Luach.
b. Luach is the new High King of Scotland.
c. Together, they will fight the English to the last man.
3. Gruoch asks for some time alone. Her father and son depart.
F. Weird Sisters appear in their Old Crone guise.
1. They approach Demona.
a. "The pain is great, child."
b. "But you are unharmed."
c. "Waken to the fate you've made for yourself."
2. Demona stirs.
a. Gruoch, still furious at Demona's betrayal.
i. She tells Demona that Canmore betrayed her.
ii. "Your people are gone, monster."
iii. "You are the last of your duplicitous race."
iv. Or something like that.
3. Demona flies off alone.
G. Weird Sisters now approach Macbeth.
1. For Canmore got it wrong.
a. He said when one dies, both die.
b. "But when one lives, both live."
c. And they vanish into the mist.
2. And then Macbeth stirs.
3. Far from being pleased, Gruoch is frightened.
a. Is it him or his ghost?
4. Macbeth assures her that he is alive.
a. Macbeth wants to join Luach in battle.
b. But Gruoch says no.
i. If he returns now, he undermines Luach.
ii. The English already accuse Mac of sorcery.
iii. This will be the final proof.
iv. It would divide even the most loyal of Scotsmen.
v. Luach & Scotland's only hope is for Mac to remain
c. Macbeth: But I'm not dead.
d. Gruoch: Then you must disappear.
i. Leave Scotland forever. It is the only way.
5. They share one last kiss, and she departs out of his life forever.
LIV. Back in Great Hall, Demona & Hunter [Macbeth] in stand-off.
A. A confused Bronx looks on. All he knows to do is guard Elisa.
B. Hunter has sought Demona across the centuries for his vengeance.
C. She is unimpressed.
1. Take off that stupid mask. She knows he's Macbeth.
a. He takes it off.
D. Nearby, the counter continues to count off the time until the pre-
mature explosions of the gas-packs.
LV. In the skies above Manhattan, Xanatos & Goliath fly abreast for a moment
as they "pass gas".
A. Xanatos says it's working. Now if that dog of yours leaves my tapestry
B. Goliath quickly figures out the truth.
C. He and Xanatos head back for the castle.
LVI. Back at the Great Hall, Macbeth holds up the Hunter's Mask.
A. He only wore it as a reminder of her betrayal.
1. She says, "Let's not start that old argument. It's pointless."
2. Besides, what's he gonna do. To kill her, he must die as well.
B. Macbeth has lived so long he no longer fears death.
1. And, indicating "stoners", he has no desire to live in the kind of
world her evil is creating.
2. He'll do what he has to do to get his revenge.
C. They fight.
D. Xanatos & Goliath arrive just as a stray laser cannon blast takes out a
huge piece of the floor.
1. Goliath is just in time to catch Elisa and keep her from falling
down the hole to smash on the lower floors.
E. Macbeth & Demona largely ignore the new-comers.
1. They tumble down to the floor below.
F. Xanatos checks the computer.
1. She's locked him out by changing access code.
2. And pack's are set to go off pre-maturely.
3. We need to save her to save the others and the city.
G. Goliath orders Bronx to guard Elisa.
1. He and Xanatos follow the fight down.
LVII. On a lower dungeon-esque floor of the castle, Xanatos & Goliath catch up
with Demona & Macbeth.
A. Demona & Macbeth are in a berserker rage.
B. Xanatos & Goliath try to just separate them -- no luck.
C. So they wade in to incapacitate them.
D. The battle takes them down again onto a lower floor.
LVIII. The quartet of combatants fall down from the lowest floor of the castle
into the Arboretum beneath it.
A. Goliath & Xanatos use teamwork to come through the drop all right. 1. Demona and Mac hit harder, down through trees, etc.
2. G&X take advantage of this to take them out.
3. Demona is knocked out.
4. Macbeth nearly so, by her injury.
B. But the injured Mac grabs Demona and prepares to do away with her...
1. (And thus himself.)
C. Goliath: "Killing her won't solve anything."
D. "He's right, Macbeth." This from the Weird Sisters.
1. They step out from among trees as NY fashion model types.
a. Though we see that Macbeth sees them as the Crones.
2. They question Macbeth:
a. Duncan was afraid that your father would make you king.
Did your father's death stop you from becoming
i. Mac: "No!"
b. You wanted revenge for your father. Did Gillecomgain's death settle that score?
i. Mac: "No."
c. Did your own "death" save Luach from Canmore?
i. Mac: "...no..."
ii. And the last 'no' breaks his heart.
3. Goliath pipes in. "Death is never the answer."
a. "Life is. Precious, precious life."
4. Macbeth: "I'm just so tired."
5. Sisters: "Then sleep."
6. Macbeth drifts off.
E. Xanatos doesn't know what the hell is going on.
1. He just knows he needs the access code.
2. Intercut timer and trio flying around at risk.
F. Seline wakens Demona, who is groggy, as if in a trance.
1. Phoebe asks Demona for the code.
2. Demona answers like she's talking in her sleep.
a. But she still refuses.
i. She will have vengeance for the betrayal of her
people. Vengeance for her pain.
3. Sisters: "But who betrayed her people? Who caused this pain?"
a. The Vikings destroyed her clan.
i. Who betrayed castle Wyvern to the Vikings?
b. The Hunter exterminated every gargoyle he found.
i. Who created the Hunter?
c. Canmore killed the last of her race.
i. Who betrayed Macbeth to Canmore?
4. Goliath: Your thirst for vengeance created nothing but more
a. End the cycle. Give us the code.
5. She does.
6. Armed with it, Xanatos shoots up through the hole in the roof.
LIX. Xanatos enters through the hole in the floor of the Great Hall.
A. He enters the access code into computer and stops clock with seconds
to spare. Whew.
B. Bronx looks on without a clue.
LX. Back in Arboretum, Demona begins to shake off her trance.
A. Her denial's kicked in. It was the humans' fault, not hers.
1. She wants her revenge.
2. She's learned nothing.
B. Sadly, the Weird Sisters (nine year old girl version) tell her she's tired.
1. She falls back into a trance beside Macbeth.
C. Goliath wonders what to do with Demona & Macbeth.
1. Sisters feel responsible for them.
2. They will take Demona and Macbeth and try to help them.
3. Goliath asks who or what the sisters are?
a. But that's a story for another day.
D. The three sisters vanish along with Macbeth and Demona.
LXI. Hudson & Trio fly over the river and drop their empty gas packs.
A. They head back for the castle.
LXII. Goliath joins Xanatos in Great Hall. It's time.
LXIII. In the skies over Manhattan, the Steel Clan Robots and their packs
A. The sky is ignited and for ten seconds is aflame for as far as the eye can
LXIV. In the outer courtyard, Xanatos and Goliath watch the flaming sky.
A. Hudson and the trio land beside them.
B. A moment of true awe for everyone.
C. Bronx howls from back inside the Great Hall.
1. They rush inside.
LXV. Xanatos and the gargoyles arrive back in the Great Hall, in time to see the
stone melt away from Elisa and Owen.
A. Goliath is so happy he lifts Elisa up into the air.
1. She laughs. She doesn't have a clue what's going on.
B. Owen and Xanatos shake hands calmly.
1. Owen knows exactly what's going on and is pleased it worked.
C. Xanatos approaches Goliath just before the good guys are about to
1. They made a pretty good team.
2. All this time Xanatos has been wondering why he allowed the
gargoyles to live.
3. Now, he knows.
4. Occasionally, they come in handy.
D. Goliath starts to get angry, but then admits that occasionally...
1. Xanatos comes in handy, as well.
LXVI. The Gargoyles fly away from the castle.
A. Goliath carries Elisa. Broadway carries Bronx.
B. Everywhere below them are the signs and sounds that Manhattan is
waking up from it's stone sleep.
1. Safe once more, thanks to the gargoyles.
That's it. Finally. As ususal, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Sorry it took so long to get this to you. A few last reminders: just write the script as one piece; ignore the part designations for now. Also, do not be afraid to over-explain things. Be as clear as possible. We do not yet know for sure where this is being story-boarded. With all the time shifts and differing ages in different scenes it could confuse anyone. Also don't assume familiarity with previous episodes. Don't hesitate to cite specific references to page or episode numbers of past scripts. Good luck.
Time to Ramble on "City of Stone, Part One", which I watched the other night with my family....
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Story: Michael Reaves
Teleplay: Brynne Chandler Reaves & Lydia Marano
Well, over a year had passed since we had revealed in "Enter Macbeth" that Macbeth had named Demona. Now we were gearing up to explain that little tidbit of info. I'm curious to know how many people were still focused on that before the "PREVIOUSLY ON GARGOYLES..." reprised it.
City of Stone was a story I had conceived originally (but briefly) as a Direct to Video movie. My boss Gary Krisel rejected it. He felt that a movie featuring the Gargoyles needed to feature our heroes a LOT MORE than this story did. Nevertheless, he liked the concept of the HUNTER a lot. So I got him to agree to let us do City of Stone as a multi-parter for the series. And I promised that Michael and I would come up with a new Hunter story that focused more on our heroes. Thus Hunter's Moon was born -- as a Home Video, originally, and we had an ending to shoot at for the entire second season.
Meanwhile, I couldn't actually disagree with Gary too much. This was Demona and Macbeth's story. The origin of two of our major villains. We had some great animation on this from Koko in Korea. Not as strong as our WDTVJapan stuff, but still very good.
What was the terrorists' cause, you might ask? I'm not telling. At the time, I had no answer. We were vague on purpose. Since then, I've come up with an answer. Now I'm being evasive on purpose.
I love Matt as a hostage negotiator.
But not as much as I love Brendan & Margot as hostages. They're a hoot.
How fast was everyone on the uptake with the Weird Sisters? Those three little girls. Even before the gargs showed, one was saying something like: "Don't worry, it'll be over soon." Did you think they were odd then? Did you notice them?
I like Brooklyn's "Don't gush" line.
When the Weird Sisters tell Goliath they weren't talking about THAT terrorist, my six year old daughter Erin said: "I think they were talking about Demona." For Chanukah, I gave Erin a Kenner Brooklyn, Broadway and Hard-Wire Goliath (which I told her was a Goliath robot). My three year old son Benny got Goliath, Lex and Xanatos. So for the first time, while they watched they could play with the toys.
It's interesting to watch the first flashback SET. All sorts of old footage from Awakening Part One, mixed with new footage. It's all very seemless thanks to great editing by Bob Birchard. And it wasn't easy. Because there was considerable confusion overseas throughout City of Stone, in terms of which model of Demona to animate. We had her standard model. Plus one that was slightly older, for the second set of flashbacks in this episode. They were constantly mixing the models up. We'd call retakes whenever we could, but sometimes we decided just to make due. So you have the flashback from Awakenings, where Goliath tells Demona to stay behind. That's followed by us finally seeing what Demona and the Captain said to each other after Goliath left. No great revelation in that scene, but we figured it would be nice to finally reveal it. Plus we wanted to clarify things from Demona's point of view. But in some of those shots, Demona appears to have aged a bit.
We see Othello & Desdemona. We are allowed to do something in this episode that we couldn't really do for S&P reasons in Awakening. To personalize the victims of the massacre a bit. In Awakening, we only got to meet the survivors. Finally we meet the victims. Of course, we're still cheating a bit, since my excuse to S&P was that our audience already knew (1) that these two died and that (2) they survived in a sense in Coldstone. But it did, independent of previous episodes, allow the startling moment when Demona picks up a fragment of Othello's face. Of course, I tried to get tha fragment -- and all those fragments in the immediate vicinity -- to be the pieces that survived into Coldstone. I think that was semi-successful.
Demona's cowardice overwhelms the courage of her strongly held convictions. She flees. Benny: "The sun's gonna come up." Yep. She turns to stone, shedding a tear. That "TEARS OF STONE" image was so effective that I allowed it to repeat in the episode. Later, her tear drops onto the stone Goliath and seems to be coming from his eye. A nice visual variation on a theme.
Demona: "It worked! At last my clan is free of human rule!"
Erin: "No. It didn't work."
Later Erin sees Demona watching Goliath holding some smashed gargoyles' remains and crying "my angel of the night". Erin says: "He thinks that was her [Demona]." Now you may be wondering why I'm reprinting such obvious responses here. But they interest me. It really struck me this viewing that in this episode, despite the "Previously" segment and all the flashbacks, that you really would be lost if you were a new viewer. Is there anyone out there for whom City of Stone was your first Gargoyle experience? If so, I'd love to hear from you. Did you have a clue as to what was going on?
Demona's classic neurotic short-circuit: "What have I -- What have THEY done to you?" The motivation that writer's live for.
And a little hint of Avalon things to come, as we see Tom, Princess K and Magus depart with the eggs. How many people had given the eggs any thought since Xanatos told the gargs back in Awakening Two that they were the last of their kind? And did this little tidbit whet the appetite, or did you forget about it immediately? I was already planning the Avalon/Archmage/World Tour/Angela stuff.
Benny (out of nowhere) asks: "What happens if someone is frozen in the sky?" We discussed various possibilities. But we're still weeks away from getting around to seeing "The Price". So I didn't want to spoil that one for him.
The intro of Gillecomgain. Erin (who has seen these before once, long ago) suddenly remembers: "His face is gonna get scratched."
Now, back in the 20th century, Owen points out that Xanatos' tv override works for "Cable, as well." I always liked that.
I also like Demona's VERY convincing lie. At this point, we don't know how she's survived through the centuries. Maybe she did do it by stealing minutes of life from thousands of people. And maybe now, she and Xanatos will do the same on a citywide scale. I always thought it was a very elegant lie. What did you guys think? Did you buy it?
The "Watch or Listen but not both" stuff regarding the magic, wasn't just a convenient excuse to give us a Robbins expository scene later. I always felt that the magic our various sorcerors did couldn't be as simple as it seemed. Anyone who reads the spell out loud can do it? No. There are complex inflections, movements, etc. involved. Study and willpower, etc. This was an attempt on my part to demonstrate that it was about more than just being in range with someone who has a copy of a Grimorum page.
On the other hand, I do think we cheated a bit to trap Owen. That spell she reads is the City of Stone spell. Yet it seems to put Owen, of all people, into a trance. We talked about her nailing him some other way first. But it was too clumsy and time consuming, so we just cheated.
Gathering Clue: Demona to Owen: "You are the tricky one." And she wraps him up in iron cable.
Elisa's watching Casablanca. Great movie.
Phoebe is looking at Seline when she speaks to Luna. Like Demona aging, we had a hell of a time getting the overseas studio to keep the three sisters straight. I began to insist that each of their appearances on the storyboard was accompanied by a hair color chart. And once more, it's black for Seline, blonde for Phoebe and silver for Luna.
We also made a real effort to put subtle character distinctions between the three sisters. Seline is the hard case. Phoebe is the gentle one. Luna is the mystic. It was part of hinting that the Sisters would serve multiple purposes in the series. Some of which I still have not revealed.
Back to the past. The guard says "Maybe they won't come." Erin asks: "Maybe who won't come?" And then the gargoyles come. The guards are taken down, and Demona raises her mace into the air. Erin asks: "Are they dead?" And dad... equivocates.
I like that gargoyle (Demona's second) with the breast plate. John Rhys-Davies did his voice.
At this stage, Demona believes that these scattered gargoyles are all that are left in the world. A second later, three gargoyles she's never met show up. (Now, true, they're the Sisters. But I was trying to make a general point, hinting that sometimes characters make absolute statements when they flat out don't know what they're talking about. Audience members beware.)
Benny immediately figured out that the three old gargoyle females were the weird sisters, or as he put it: "They're the humans. The one's that disappeared." I.e. the kids that disappeared in the first sequence of the episode. That made me feel a little better. People are always telling me that I write stuff that is too adult for kids to get. I tell them that I try to write on multiple levels. So that the kids get what they need to get and that adults, etc. get more. But it's nice to get confirmation that the kids do get it on occasion. Particularly in an ep as complicated as this one.
Intro Findlaech, Gruoch, Bodhe and young Macbeth. I like how quickly they are all characterized in that scene. F is loyal. B is equivocal at best. Bodhe is already thinking about how to marry G off to advantage. "What about Macbeth? Is he a match for the lass?" Yeah, sure he's talking about chess. I came to have a great deal of contempt for the character of Bodhe. (Too be fair, I have no idea what the historical Bodhe's character was like.) And yet, almost simultaneously, I became fond of him too. He was SO human. SO flawed. SO afraid of the world. And yet SO desperate to tread water in it.
We also establish the "SIGIL OF MORAY" which will become an important prop throughout.
I like that little blushing moment of G & Mac's. But mostly, I like it because of B & F's reactions. Bodhe is suddenly nervous that Gruoch might, shall we say, lose something with Macbeth prematurely. Though he pushed them together, he now rushes to separate them. But it's too late. The connection has already been made. F just laughs.
Now... Enter the HUNTER. The Hunter got a sort of Steve Canyon intro. That is, he's been talked about by various people for the last few minutes, though we haven't gotten a look at him. (This was the technique used when Steve Canyon was first introduced in the comic strips.) Now he shows up, and I trust he isn't disappointing. Benny immediately says: "THat's the one that got scratched." Sharp boy. (Keep in mind, that we haven't yet seen the adult Gille, so we haven't seen his scarred face yet.)
I love this sequence. It's a great fight, full of great little touches, flourishes, etc. Great storyboarding work here.
Again, characters are revealed in a nutshell. Gruoch's already loyal. Bodhe's revealed to be a coward. Even when his daughter rushes downstairs, he stays above.
Findlaech dies. It's a classic Disney fall-to-one's-death death. But there is a difference. F is the good guy. Usually, that's done with the villain. Was anyone shocked?
I love how at this point, Macbeth is nothing but an annoyance to both Demona and the Hunter. I also love how complex Demona is. Under it all, she's really something of a romantic. She rescues the young lovers. Then can't believe she did it. She's trying to will herself to be cold. So that she won't feel anything. But it isn't natural. She's not a cold woman, though her plans often are. It's that divide that's generally gonna screw her up everytime.
When the Hunter first enters on Prince Duncan, we were supposed to (BRIEFLY) think he was there to attack the Prince as well. But I don't think that comes off even slightly.
And o.k., yes, Gillecomgain has a face to match the Hunter's mask. It's worse than Clark Kent and those glasses. Does Scotland really not know it's him? Believe it or not, that never even occured to me initially. (Yes, I'm a dope.) Now, I'll chalk it up to the notion that everyone figures he's TOO obvious a suspect. You can almost here the water cooler talk:
MacMorris: "Hey, MacTavish, have you ever noticed that that Gillecomgain guy has scars across his face just like the red marks on the Hunter's mask?"
MacTavish: "What are you saying, MacMorris? That Gillecomgain is so stupid, he'd wear a mask and then put his scars ON the mask? Not much of a disguise. Know what I think. I think the Hunter is trying to throw suspicion onto old Gilley."
MacMorris: "Oh, give me a break."
MacTavish: "Hey, pal, it worked with you."
I made a real effort to just have the Weird Sisters EVERYWHERE.
Back to the present. Someone dons a Hunter's Mask. How many knew it was Macbeth right away? I figured at the time that regular viewers would figure that out pretty darn quick. That didn't bother me. For them, I figured the mystery would be "WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD MACBETH DON A HUNTER'S MASK, WHEN THE HUNTER KILLED HIS FATHER?" I thought that mystery was at least as intriguing. Do you guys agree or disagree?
I also liked the variation on the mask. No eyes. Nothing. Modern technology.
Fox. Fox presented an interesting dilemma. What was Xanatos' attitude toward her in this? We already know he loves her. But he doesn't include her in the immortality thing with Demona. Why? Demona won't allow it? Or he thinks Demona won't? Or he doesn't fully trust D and won't risk Fox until he knows the set-up works?
And then he finds out that she did watch the broadcast. He had told her not to, but she did. He doesn't fill her in. (Not that there's much time.) Is he prepared to let her lose a minute from her life (as he believes has happened)? How would he have felt if Demona wasn't lying about that? At the end of her life, would an immortal Xanatos be desperate to give her that one minute back? Of course, given Fox's heritage, which I didn't know yet, it's possible, she'll outlive him by quite a bit. Course, anything's possible.
How's the cliff-hanger? We haven't seen the city yet, but we do get to see Owen, Fox and Elisa all turned to stone. We're so used to the Gargoyles in stone, but not humans. I thought it was sort of chilling. The more chilling, because we know from earlier in this very episode, what can happen when living beings are turned to stone. (The Wyvern Massacre.) Now we've seen this four-parter a bunch of times and we're used to it. But I'm curious as to how you all felt the first time you saw Part One.
Another interesting aspect, is that 3/4 of the threat is to characters that we consider to be villains. Or more than 3/4. In the past, young Macbeth has lost his father and is clearly at risk. And Demona is being hunted. In the present, Fox and Owen are stone. And Xanatos and Fox appear to be falling to their deaths. Sure, the clincher is Elisa. But I think it's a tribute to how well-rounded are villains are that we care what's going to happen to them. Can you imagine most cartoons making the death of the villains a cliff-hanger? People would simply cheer.
One little flaw: Elisa's facing the wrong way. It was easier to board that way, I'm sure. But I can't figure out why she would have been standing and facing that direction at sundown.
Comments welcome, as usual...
Have you ever planned out the way Demona and Macbeth meet
their demise, or do they just continue living for years and years? Have you even planned that far...?
Yes, I know.
I've planned many things VERY far out. Some of these things are random. Other things, I don't yet have a clue about.
would Macbeth ever reconsider Arthur's invitation to be one of his knights?
Not on an ongoing basis, but when needed, certainly.
Salutations! (hmm, I ALWAYS think of "Charlotte's Web" whenever I see that...)
Anyway, just wanted to share a little testimony with you and all the kiddies out there about NOT doing your research:
See, I am a major Gargoyles fan (well, that's a given). And right now, in my senior lit class, we are reading Shakespeare's "Macbeth". Well, of course I thought I was going to be all smart and show everyone up with my (so I thought) vast knowledge on everyone's favorite immortal Scotsman. Now mind you, I didn't think the REAL Macbeth was still alive running around chasing after gargoyles and ancient swords (I'm not THAT dense!), but I basically thought he was a not-so-bad guy who was king somewhere in Scotland's history. Needless to say I was shocked to find that the play's Macbeth is (in a way) truly villainous! The play's Lady Macbeth is fiendish, as well! And the play's Duncan is a hapless, good-intentioned king who was unjustly murdered! And to think, if I had raised my hand to explain Macbeth to the class just a few minutes sooner, I'd have been made a fool of in front of my peers! (Well, Greg, at least now I understand better than most what you meant when you said the Gargs Universe Macbeth would be amused by the Shakespearean version of himself...)
The moral of our story--you've got library cards, kids: USE THEM. And if you don't, then at least keep quiet until AFTER the introduction to the story is over when YOUR lit class starts reading Shakespeare.
(who DID finish her abandoned "A Midsummer Night's Dream" due to Gargoyles ;)
Do keep in mind that aside from the gargoyles, immortality and magic, that our Macbeth was in fact more historically accurate than Shakespeare's. (I'm not saying better, by any means, just truer to history as we know it.)
In "The Journey", Banquo and Fleance are portrayed as working for Castaway, who is really Jon Canmore in disguise. Was this intended as a bit of irony, in light of the fact that they'd earlier worked for Macbeth, who was an enemy of the Canmores' ancestors Duncan and Canmore?
if demona had succeded in destroying humanity in hunters moon 3 wouldn't she die as soon as she became human and was no longer under the protection of the praying gargoyle? also wouldn't that spell have killed macbeth and thus she would died or does the power of the praying gargoyle supersede the wierd sisters spell? im a huge fan thanks for a great show!!!!
Hey, Matt. Check the Demona and/or Macbeth archives. I'm tired of answering that one.
Has Macbeth had many (any?) other aliases besides Lennox Macduff? Has he 'been' any person that we'd recognise?
1. Yes. (Lennox Macbeth, for example, is the name on his French passport.)
what happened to macbeth's mother
1. Has or will Macbeth fallen in love with anyone other than Gruoch or "Dominique"?
1a. Has he married anyone other than Gruoch or "Dominique"?
2a. Did he have any other children besides Luach?
2. The prefix 'Mac' means son, right? *Grins & Chuckles* Think his mom's name is Elizabeth?
1. Maybe. But not often.
1a. Maybe. But not often.
2a. Maybe. But not many.
2. His mom's name, I believe, is Doada or Donada. And although Mac means son. His name is not MacBeth, which would mean the son of Beth. Rather, his name is Macbeth MacFindlaech. Meaning Macbeth son of Findlaech. The word "Macbeth" is probably, historically an Anglicazation of Maelbeatha.
When do you think Demona and Macbeth became fully aware that neither could die without killing the other? Right after Canmore stabbed Macbeth? Later?
Also, Macbeth is quite clearly (at least at one point) a suicidal character. Did he ever try to just kill himself? If so, did he not know he had to kill Demona to do it, or just hoped it would work?
Right after each got up after "dying".
Mac knows the rules.
OH and greg, hate to tell ya, but you know how you keep telling people to "check the archives" for the demona/macbeth dieing from virus/statue etc..? its not there. i dont know if its in the HUGE archives, but i read the demona archive and the macbeth archive. its not there. unless gore deleted it just as i went to go look for it. not that im asking that question, but i thought id let you know :)
So check the BIG ARCHIVES. I know I've answered it many, many, many times.
The short answer is it depends on what was going on in Demona's head. (And frankly, the short answer should be enough in this case.)
Before Gillecomgain's murder of Findlaech in 1020, had he carried out other assassinations with human (as opposed to gargoyle) victims? I ask this because of Findlaech's line, "You are the Hunter... but who sent you to hunt me?", which suggests that the Hunter had gained a reputation for that sort of thing.
Bodhe's son (Gruoch's brother) MacBodhe died somewhere in there. But I don't have my references here at home, so I can't remember when in the chronology MacBodhe's murder occured.
But perhaps it explains a little bit about Bodhe's behaviour.
There was a discussion in the comment room last week on the original plans that you and Michael Reaves drew up for the Gargoyles live-action movie (which were rejected), and one element of it got a particularly interesting bit of attention that I thought that I'd ask you about. You mentioned that in the movie plans, Macbeth would be the lord of Castle Wyvern back in the medieval period, before Goliath and the other gargs were placed in their stone sleep.
The question that got raised was whether it would have been that advisable to introduce Macbeth into the movie in such a role. Unlike the bulk of the other major characters in the series (certainly the ones whom you mentioned in your plans for the story), Macbeth exists outside of "Gargoyles" as a very well-known Shakespearean figure. This raised, therefore, the question as to whether his appearance in the movie in the role that you and Reaves had planned for him might have been a bit distracting, on account of his literary connotations. Of course, we don't know as yet if you and Reaves ever managed to get to that part before your idea for the movie was rejected, but I thought that I'd ask you about it anyway.
I think his NAME value would have been worth something. And it would have -- in success -- set us up to use him further down the line.
just reading your lighthouse ramble
I was myself surprsied, and continue to be, at the same moment your daughter was, being the scene where Macbeth says he will test Merlin's magic on Broadway. It felt out of character. Even disregarding what we were to later know of him, up to this point he doesn't seem to be the same type of ruthless villain as Demona or Xanatos. He has already gained that grey shading of character and it is hard to get a handle on his exact motives, but it felt to me he was already established to be very interested in concepts of honor and wouldn't stoop to such actions as using a sentient being as a lab rat, especially after he'd given his word. It's not honorable.
After later episodes and more background is given on him, his behavior in this episode just feels even more out of character. It becomes established that he is a man of deep honor, and while he doesn't act altruistically, like the gargoyles, he doesn't act nefariously either. He acts in his own best interests, but within limits. His saying he'd test Merlin's magic on Broadway is teh equivalent of Xanatos about to test the Cauldron of Life on Hudson, but this just doesn't feel right in my understanding of Macbeth. Such an action is a depth I don't see him willing to take, no matter what his ends are.
I'm also reading your memo and getting uncomfortable about the term "villain" being used in regards to Macbeth as a description and as an explanation for his motives and actions in this episode. I guess it was always my own personal taste and regard for the character that I never once saw him in that light; I always saw him as distinguishly neutral.
I can understand when you say this type of confusion is exactly what you wanted, but sometimes I don't see it as much a story type of confusion, where we just don't know him yet and are trying to figure this guy out, but more as a consistency confusion, where his character in other places is inconsistent with his character here.
Just a few of my ideas. And I love being able to get this much discussion and difference of opinion out of a t.v. show.
Here's hoping to seeing you in Orlando.
The fact that Macbeth said it doesn't mean he'd have actually gone through with it. But he might have. I think you underestimate how far the guy had fallen. He didn't start to climb out of his hole of depression until Sanctuary at least...
I don't think he's inconsistent here. This is only his second appearance, and he's been fairly nasty up to this point. The fact that we see touches of something better doesn't forgive or make impossible the nastiness. He is a bit of a hypocrite, after all. And I think you're basing your assumption on what you'd like him to be, based on the total picture of him, rather than on how he behaved in his first two appearances.
But that's just my opinion.
I just found out that the real Grouch was related to Kenneth III. So wouldn't her relationship with MacBeth be classified as incestous?
Related how? As distant cousins? Look, if it didn't concern them, I'm not going to let it concern me.
First let me say that you are ressponible for an extremely well produced series of which I am a die hard fan.
I have some questions about Macbeth.
1: Besides the three episodes of "Avalon" did Macbeth ever meet Boudicca?
2: How (primarily) did Macbeth make his fortune?
3: How long was Macbeth employed as a security guard at the prison where Xanatos was held?
4: I know Demona is a socceress, but shouldn't Macbeth have been more wary about entering into a spell with the Weird Sisters?
5: How long was it before Macbeth decided to track down Demona and end his life?
1. Not that I can recall.
2. Holdings that matured. Primarily.
3. He wasn't.
4. He was desperate.
Hi, Greg! I have a quick question for you -- why did Avalon send Demona and MacBeth to Paris? Goliath, Angela, Elisa, and Bronx were sent to Paris because of Demona and MacBeth. So, why were Demona and MacBeth there? Thanks!! :)
Thailog. And a need for them to confront each other one more time.
It's always seemed to me that Macbeth earlier apearences were much more villanious than his later ones. Clearly the Macbeth who cares not whether the Scrolls of Merlin were burned is very differet from the one who willingly knelt before Arthur. He's certinlly extreamly different from the Macbeth who defended the Gargoyles on national television.
I'm curious, did you always plan for Macbeth's character to become more grey as the series went on, or was this a choice you made after learning some of the real Macbeth's history?
I always intend for nearly every character to become more grey as the series progresses.
But keep in mind, that Macbeth DID end up caring whether or not the scrolls were burnt, as soon as Broadway pointed out why they were worth saving. He was always pretty grey. Except perhaps in his very first appearance, where he was more mysterious than evil. He had an agenda. We just didn't know what it was back then.
Still, as time passed, after revealing about him what we did, it was hard not to view him in a more sympathetic light. So much so, that people were suprised he was even playing a vaguely villainous role in Pendragon.
me again. I was just reading the archives again and a question about demona and macbeth's immortalkity, and what they could survive through. You said that neither character was too eager to test the limits of their immoratlity by saying cutting off their own head or such. I would think this is something Macbeth actually would've done. Now, maybe I misread it or read into it too much, and please correct me, but I thought one of Macbeth's main motivations in "Enter Macbeth" and "City of Stone" was to kill Demona so that he could finally die as well. Almost suicidal. part of my reason for saying this, which is maybe where i read into the episode too much, was in City of Stone at the ending when he just confesses, so tragically in my opinion and I really loved that part, that he was just so tired. I read it as he was just so tired of being alive and living with his heartache of seeing all his loved ones die and tired of this vendetta against Demona. He was tired of being alive and wanted to rejoin his lost loved ones. Am I reading too much into it, and if I am, would you explain how you interpret his actions and motivations?
I think he was suicidal. But I don't think he was prepared to fully admit that to himself. Macbeth was raised to believe suicide is sinful. etc, etc.
My question today is if Demona and Macbeth can only die by hands of each others hand or so, What would happen if say Macbeth committed suicide not that he really would.
Thanks thats all for now,
It wouldn't work.
I've recently read a book on Shakespeare's famous "history play" cycle (the eight history plays from "Richard II" to "Richard III" about the Wars of the Roses) called "Shakespeare's Kings" by John Julius Norwich, which focused on the relations of Shakespeare's cycle to actual English history. And that inspired a fresh question on my part.
In your vision of the Gargoyles Universe, did any of the immortal characters (Demona, Macbeth, Puck, etc.) get involved in any way in this period of English history that Shakespeare was drawing on for his cycle, from Richard II's deposition in 1399 to Richard III's death at Bosworth in 1485? (We know, of course, where Demona was in 1495, ten years after Bosworth, and that it wasn't in England).
I doubt Demona was around. Maybe in France during the Joan of Arc years. Macbeth might have been around. Or in and out of the country at least.
Puck -- well, I'd have to think about that.
Anyway, as you can see, I haven't really given it any thought.
Is it disappointing when I admit that I don't literally know everything yet?
If so, just imagine that it's a message from the Gargoyle Universe that hasn't come to me (ala Coleridge) in a dream yet.
1) Do Banquo and Fleance know Macbeth is THE Macbeth?
2) If so, did Macbeth tell them or did they find out some other way?
3) If Macbeth told them, why did he?
4) How do they feel about him being the real Macbeth?
3. They knew too much. It was either that or kill them.
4. He pays them well. Nothing else much matters to them.
why do civilians like macbeth and xanatos have laser weapons while the police force is using automatics and slugs?
Macbeth largely uses Electro-Magnetic technology, but I get your point. Both these guys are extremely rich and have the time and money to invest in the development of hi-tech experimental weapons.
And generally speaking, aren't cops always a step behind technologically? (That's not meant as a criticism, just as a reality check.)
Written by Brynne Chandler Reaves & Lydia C. Marano
Story Edited by Michael Reaves
Well, I watched "Lighthouse" again last night with my family. First thing I noticed was the bad "Previously" recap. This is all my fault. The recap features Macbeth, because I wanted to make sure the audience knew who he was. But that blows out the first act surprise reveal that he's behind it all. Up to that point in the story, you'd be thinking Xanatos. But because of the dopey recap, you know it MUST be Mac. Later in the season, after I got hammered over these recaps by the folks on the Disney Afternoon e-Mailing list, I learned never to put anything into the recap that wasn't revealed in the first five minutes of the show to follow. But here's a perfect example of me screwing up my own mystery.
We introduce archeologists Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smythe. Dr. Duane was named after writers Lydia Marano and Diane Duane. Professor Morwood-Smythe was named after writers Arthur Byron Cover and Peter Morwood. Arthur is Lydia's husband. Peter is Diane's husband. I don't know anyone named Smythe.
Macbeth episodes, at least up to this point, seem to be cursed with mediocre animation. (Of course, everything's relative. Mediocre on Gargs was still better than most series got. But relative to our expectations, this ep is pretty weak.) I bet Elisa would have really looked cute in that red baseball hat if the animation had been even slightly better.
I don't know how clear it is in the prologue. The idea there, was that the wind was blowing through the lyre. The haunting sound drew the archeologists further into the cave. They read the warning which indicates that the seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear, the destroyer everything. They are supposed to hesitate, look at each other, decide that they are seekers not destroyers and then open the chest. Merlin's clearly put a safety spell of some kind on the chest. An image of the old man appears and basically checks to confirm whether the archeologists are in fact seekers or destroyers. Satisfied, the spell disipates. But you can imagine what would have happened if a Hakon type had stumbled in.
Anyway, it never felt like all that came across. Did it?
Brooklyn (re: Broadway): "Ignorance is bliss." In High School, I had a classmate named Howard Bliss. We had chemistry together with Mr. Miller. Mr. Miller once asked the class a question that we all should have known. No one knew the answer, and our own idiocy generated laughter among Miller's students. He just shook his head and said: "Ignorance is bliss." He forgot that he had a student named Bliss. It generated more laughter. I don't know why I told you that. But it's what I thought about when Brooklyn read that line.
There's a semi-heavy-handed "Read More About It" feel to the clock tower conversation regarding Merlin. Goliath practically quotes those public service announcements, saying there are many books about him in the library. I don't mind. I had wanted to cite a few actual books -- like Mary Stewart's THE CRYSTAL CAVE -- but our legal department wouldn't give us clearance for that. Very short-sighted.
A connection is made between Merlin and the Magus. This was not an accident, as at that time, I had planned to have the Magus journey with Arthur on his Pendragon quests to find Excalibur and Merlin. I later changed my mind. But the Magus does at least play a Merlin-esque roll in the Avalon three parter.
I always wonder who was playing in "Celebrity Hockey" that night.
Macbeth's standard Electro-Magnetic weapon was my idea. I didn't design it exactly, but I did make crude little drawings of something that looked vaguely like a staple gun, with two electrodes that generated the charge. I was always proud of that weapon. It was uniquely Macbeth's (and Banquo and Fleances'). Set him apart from all the concussion, laser and particle beam weapons we used elsewhere. (I did the same kind of thing on the Quarymen's hammers.)
It's fun to listen to B.J. Ward voice both sides of the confrontation between Fleance and Duane.
Banquo's model sheet showed him squinting out of one eye. Some episodes, not so much this one, but some took that to mean he only had one eye. So he walks around looking like Popeye for the entire episode. (His big lantern jaw helps accentuate that.) There are a couple of Popeye moments in this ep. But more in his next appearance I think.
It was my idea to just have Mac's mansion rebuilt without explanation. I don't exactly regret it, but it's kinda cheap. We burned it way down. He has it rebuilt. It makes sense. But we usually dealt with consequences more than that.
When he rebuilds it, he installs those cannons. They were supposed to be giant-sized versions of the hand-held E-M guns. But they don't come off that way. Instead they fire at the gargoyles. And mostly seem to destroy the various turrets of Macbeth's own place. Ugghh.
As in "Leader" we get another scene of Goliath and friends confronting Owen at the castle. Looking for Xanatos, when in fact Xanatos isn't the threat. It made sense in both episodes. And it's always nice to showcase Owen a bit. But after two of those in four episodes, I wasn't gonna do that again. (At least not until KINGDOM.)
I love the "Macbeth Theme" that Carl Johnson created for the villain, which is featured at the end of ACT ONE.
Macbeth opens the "second scroll" and starts to read Merlin's seal. This caused tons of fan confusion, as he read "Sealed by my own [i.e. Merlin's] hand". No one seemed to get that he was reading that. They thought Mac was saying that he [i.e. Macbeth] had sealed the scroll. Of course that notion renders the whole thing confusing as hell. But it never occured to us that anyone would take it that way.
We also introduce Jeffrey Robbins and Gilly in this episode. Gilly is of course short for Gilgamesh, one of the legendary characters that Robbins once wrote about. It's just a bit odd, because Gilly is a female.
Robbins is a very cool character. Wish we had had the opportunity to use him more.
I like how when Robbins and Hudson are introducing themselves, Robbins gives his first and last name. Hudson says, I'm Hudson, "like the river". An echo of how he got the name. And a reminder that names aren't natural to him. Even if they are addictive.
John Rhys-Davies is just fantastic as Macbeth. I love his speech to Broadway. It accomplishes everything we needed it too. That line about the "human heart" by the way is a reference to the Arthur/Lance/Gwen triangle.
I also love his line: "I'm Old, but not THAT Old." This was a little hint to what we'd reveal in CITY OF STONE. Sure Macbeth's from the eleventh century, but not the fifth or sixth. It's like someone saying to someone my age, "So what did you do during World War II?"
Lennox Macduff. That was a cool touch. Also a hint as to how Macbeth feels about Shakespeare.
I like the Phone Book scene too. Hudson says "Hmm. Magic Book." Robbins replies: "Aren't they all." Great stuff.
By the way, as Robbins goes through the phone book, scanning names, he passes "Macduff, Cameron". One of my college roommates was Cameron Douglas, who was really interested in his Scotish heritage. That was a mini-tribute to him.
My daughter Erin reacts to the fact that Macbeth threatens to use Merlin's spells on Broadway. She points out that Macbeth had promised to let Broadway go after he had the scrolls. She's surprised he hasn't kept his word. My wife at that point reminds Erin that Macbeth is the villain. Erin gets that. But you can tell it isn't quite sitting right with her.
Later when Macbeth DOES let everyone go without a struggle, Erin is clearly not sure what to make of him.
And on one level, that's exactly as we wanted it. Macbeth is a troubled guy -- a hero who's devolved into a villain. A suicidal villain on top of that, though we hadn't revealed that yet. But he is a villain. Later, it's debatable, but here he's taken to being an ends-justify-the-means kinda guy. And even his ends are hazy at best.
I love Broadway's "precious magic" speech. It's so wierd hearing poetry from the big galoot. But that's so Broadway. The soul of a poet. Bill Faggerbakke was a huge help.
And I love Robbins "They are lighthouses in the dark sea of time..." speech. I love that it's not exactly the title. Brynne and Lydia did fine work on this one.
I wonder what happened to that lyre?
How did Goliath and the others learn that Demona and Macbeth can only be killed if one kills the other? Demona told Brooklyn in "Temptation" how she had been dealing with humans for hundreds of years, and Macbeth told Goliath in "Enter Macbeth" how he had named Demona, which she herself said in "Awakening Part 5" happened long ago. So I get how they could figure out both were immortal, but how exactly did they figure out the terms of the spell?
And another thing--if they knew that only Macbeth could kill Demona and vice versa, how come they thought Macbeth died in the crash in "The Price" and Demona died in the fire in "The Reckoning'?
From the Weird Sisters, after they were captured -- but before they were released -- in "Avalon, Part Three".
"The Price" took place before "Avalon". And they never said she was dead in "The Reckoning". Goliath simply acknowledged that he wasn't sure. I mean how many questions have I had to answer here about the rules of the whole Macbeth/Demona thing. If you all have some doubts about how that spell works, don't you think Goliath and Angela might also.
Hello again. These questions are about King Arthur. 1) Would he still be alive by 2158? 2) Would Arthur ever be recognized by world leaders as being the actual "King Arthur"? 3) Would Arthur ever rule Britain again? (he's supposed to be the once and future king, right?) 4) Would he ever rule anything? 4) Will he have an heir? 5) You previously mentioned that McBeth wouldn't "inherit" Excalibur from Arthur. Would McBeth ever even own Excalibur? 6) What's the largest number (rough estimate) of knights that you picture Arthur having, from the time he was awakened until he dies? 7) About how many of those knights do you think might be gargoyles? 8) Do you picture Griff staying at Arthur's side until death claims one of them?
(please forgive the obvious "monstly" typo in my previous post. I would really appreciate an answer to those questions)
2. By some. Not all.
3. Once and Future King of something, all right.
4. That would be telling.
5. He might hold it once or twice.
6. I'm not good with numbers. (It's amazing I can count to fourteen over and over again.)
7. See 6.
1) Who has more money, Macbeth or Xanatos?
2) How much money do the Canmores have?
3) Just how much did the Pack profit financially from their tv show?
1. From a liquid standpoint, Xanatos. Macbeth may have some extremely valuable items, that would be worth a fortune if he was willing to part with them, but he's largely not...
2. An extremely large trust.
3. Quite a bit. But not as much as Xanatos did.
Did Macbeth ever encounter any Gargoyles besides Demona in the centuries between his first 'death' and his first encounter with Goliath's clan in the 20th century?
maybe... maybe not....
A sort of "ramble-reply" to "Long Way Till Morning".
I'll have to confess that the only part of my "first time I saw it" response to this episode that I now remember (other than my delight at another medieval sequence - the 984 scenes in this case) was that I initially believed that Prince Malcolm would actually succumb to the Archmage's poisoned dart, and that this was how he'd died. (It was obvious that he must have died at some point before the 994 events in "Awakening", naturally, since Katharine's ruling Wyvern by then). So the fact that, in the succeeding flashbacks in this episode after the initial one, he does live in the end, surprised me.
I certainly agree with you on the Katharine-and-Malcolm scenes; I'd also felt on my own before reading that ramble that Malcolm was unwittingly planting the seeds of bigotry in his daughter when he used the gargoyles as a means of frightening her to be good. (Kind of reminds me of something I'd read once in either "Dear Abby" or "Ann Landers" about a policeman protesting the way that a few parents use police as "bogeymen" to scare their children into being good similarly). Indeed, Prince Malcolm's judgement really does come across in this episode as a bit on the poor side beyond Katharine; he's overly confident about the Archmage no longer being a threat, while Hudson correctly recognizes that the sorcerer could return for revenge - and indeed, the Archmage does.
Demona's ambitious streak in the 984 scene reminds me a bit of Lady Macbeth similarly urging Macbeth to dispose of Duncan in Shakespeare's play - which, when you stop to think over her future, is rather appropriate. (Indeed, in "Sanctuary", Demona actually becomes "Lady Macbeth" in a literal sense - and if you ask me, she fits the Shakespearean character far better than Gruoch ever did).
I must admit that I've always had a certain fondness for Hudson, and he certainly comes across as a sympathetic figure here. One can't help but admire his dogged persistence in keeping Goliath safe from Demona in the present day. He may think of himself as all washed up, but he still does his duty in protecting Goliath against a very determined adversary.
Two scenes I particularly like in this episode, both near the end: the sight of Demona slowly approaching through the graveyard in the distance, and the bit where she emerges from behind the stone angel - both positively creepy.
This was a great story, I thought.
And I agree with your Demona/Lady Macbeth assessment. A lot of that was intentional.
In the episode 'Future Tense,' Demona is killed by Cyber-Xanatos, didn't Goliath know something was up then? Because clearly Xanatos is not MacBeth, and therefore cannot kill Demona...Puck knew Demona was immortal because of 'The Mirror,' did Puck just kinda forget, or was he not worried about the details of his little scheme. Just a little somethin' somethin' to ponder and answer for us, or just me
I think that Goliath's head was fairly well turned upside down by all that had happened up to that point.
As for Puck, what in "The Mirror" gives you the impression that Puck/Owen knows about the Demona/Macbeth connection?
1.What happened to Grouchs mother?
1.What happened to Macbeths mother?
1.What is Demonas opinion of Bodhe?
I'm sure she hates the sniveling coward.
1.What is Demonas opinion of Gruoch?
1. I think they kept their distance from each other, generally. No animosity. But I don't see them as friendly. Of course, after it went bad, they hated each other.
1.What is Demonas opinion of Luoch?, after all, he was a major supporter of her clan and was outraged when Bodhe suggested that Macbeth betray Demonas clan.
I think she liked him during those 17 golden years. Or at any rate, liked him well enough. Probably wouldn't admit it, but liked him.
After it all went bad, I think he became just another human to her. But by then she was fleeing Scotland. And he didn't have long for the world.
In Huter's moon part three, Demona was going to cast a spell which would wipe out all life except gargoyles. But wouldn't she kill herself because, she would have killed Macbeth and she would have perished as well or would Macbeth be the only human alive? Would Demona's disease or plague have reached the shores of Avalon and killed tom and the Princess?
Both these points are debatable. I've answered the first one before. (Check the archives for a fuller answer.) It would depend on her mindset. It's possible her survival would have kept Macbeth alive.
I think it's unlikely that it would have hit Avalon.
A series like "Gargoyles" is build (in my opinion) on the strength of its villians, and Gargoyles had some of the BEST villians going, especially Macbeth. Even Xanatos, in armor, didn't try to take on all the gargs at once (The Edge) much less succeed the way Macbeth does. Throw in the character's phenomanal personality and history, and you have one very engaging and dangerous guy.
As to the episode itself... I'm forced to agree it was the worst animation in season one. Did you notice in the final shot of Macbeth (in the tape Owen shows Xanatos) that he's got a mustache! Personally that bugged me more than the other probelems. At least keep the character's LOOK right! :)
My favorite part of the episode, amongst many cool moments: While Goliath battles Macbeth, Bronx frees Brooklyn and Lex by CRASHING BODILY STRAIGHT THROUGH THE ELECTRIFIED BARS! This time without the benefit of diveted current. This feat is so impressive it even shocks Brooklyn and Lex. Just look at their faces! I think their actually scared of him at this moment. In my mind, this established Bronx as being, pound for pound stronger than all the gargs, including Goliath.
My two cents... thanks for listening, er.. reading.
Bronx is tough. And probably a bit underused in the series. One of the reasons I was determined to take him on the World Tour.
Macbeth is also tough. Resourceful, etc. Definitely wanted to establish that in his first appearance. He's a major kick-ass guy.
Both fun characters to write.
I thought I'd just add my two cents on something I saw a couple of ppl ask.
The question was concerning the scene in Highnoon (i think that's the right ep.) when Demona and Elisa are fighting, and Macbeth is just sitting there not feeling anything. Your reply was that you lost track of the whole pain thing, (i think there was another explanation that you gave, but I cant' remember it right now) Well, I had always been under the impression, that in that scene, when Coldstone says "Well, this is diverting" (or something like that) And Macbeth replies, "You don't know the half of it" I always figured that that was what he was refering to. That he could feel the pain, and so it was even more 'diverting' that it seemed. But maybe he didn't react to it because he had seen teh pain coming, and so braced himself for the impact. And, maybe he was getting a tad bit of pleasure at watching Demona get her but whipped by Elisa. ;)
Anyway, that's my two cents worth..
I do think I more or less said that as my "in-Universe" explanation, but at any rate , I like your interpretation.
Greg, as always, you are so delightful. I enjoyed reading your rambling about Awakening part 3 and all the little behind-the-scenes stuff you told us about. Ambrosia chuckles. Poor Brooklyn. I did wonder why he was always the one falling in and out of love. Curse you, Maggie.
No, I liked that we saw Demona ahead of time. I remember freaking out when I saw her alive, and yet it took nothing away from the scene where she is reunited with Goliath. And I think everyone knew that Xanatos was a "bad guy" although Demona was something of a shocker for me. I think it was a great dramatic moment.
I loved Goliath's line, "and please, don't fall off the building this time!" Unfortunately- and understand that it's hard for me to give criticism even though I know you invite it- but I liked Goliath much better in these 5 eps than anywhere else. He was thoughtful, calm and level-headed and I liked that in him. Later, though, he seemed to roar much more often and break things down before he thought about it carefully. I hafta say, Greg, this upset me a little. Consider Enter MacBeth. Goliath rampages throughout the whole ep tearing down MacBeth's home. Yeah, MacBeth kept hiding from him and he was frustrated, but the Goliath from Awakening might have found a better way to handle it. Which brings me to something else. Why was MacBeth running and not facing him in an honorable fight? MacBeth is reversed from my opinion of Goliath. I didn't like him at first (he seemed to be too much the stereotype of a villain) but as his depth grew, I liked him more.
Something that always bugged me about the scene when Hudson is named: He asks if the sky needs a name... the sky's name is sky! I'm going to have to be a human too and agree with Elisa: things do need names. I did love the scene with Brooklyn, Lexington and Tom. It warmed my heart to hear Lexington casually answer "We look different" to Tom's question, "How do you tell each other apart?" So cute! And even better to the question, "But what do you call each other?" was Brooklyn's, "friend."
I never gave a thought to part three not having any action. I loved it and, you're right: the characters themselves held my attention. Correction: my rapt attention.
Erin (age 5 & 1/2) responds:
My favorite character is Tom. I liked the part when he said how do you tell each other apart. And I liked how he looked when he was little. And when he was a little boy.
Greg (age 36 & 1/2) responds:
Good point about Goliath. I always felt we had plenty of justification when Goliath was behaving badly. It came out of his lack of understanding of the twentieth century, his warrior up-bringing and occasional flares of temper and extreme frustration. The same thing happened in Act One of Awakening, Part Two. In "Enter Macbeth", Macbeth was intentionally goading him, which helped explain his increasing frustration and the resulting destruction. I don't think there was a better answer for Goliath on Macbeth's home turf. And once, Macbeth revealed his flawed plan to catch Demona, Goliath laughs, and the tables turn. And again, we have a Goliath who is responding with more thought -- and more success.
Macbeth's change takes place over time intentionally. He starts out bitter and borderline suicidal. And over the course of his multiple appearances, finds new reasons to carry on. Plus, of course, it never hurts to learn a characters background (as in "City of Stone") in order to generate more sympathy for him.
As for the name thing, I think YOU are the one splitting hairs. The sky is called the sky, the way Hudson is called a gargoyle. But to Hudson, you don't need to give the sky an additional name like, say, Fred. Hudson is used to being referred by his relationship to whomever he's talking to. Brother, Father, mentor, Leader, Friend, Old Friend, etc. The need to pinpoint him with an identity that isn't relative is human, not gargoyle. But even with all that, I'm human too, and I also feel the need to name -- it's addictive. I just like to point out the conceptual difference between traditional gargoyle customs and human changes.
A Macbeth question that I've been wondering for some time. In the Shakespeare play, he can only be killed by one who is not "of woman born". It occurred to me some time ago that this also holds true for the Gargoyles Macbeth, for the only one who can kill him is Demona, and she was hatched from a gargoyle egg, which counts just as well as a loophole as being from one's "mother's womb untimely ripped". Have you ever noticed this before?
Yep. We talked about making a point about it in City of Stone, just as we discussed doing a Birnham Wood scene. But unfortunately all that "Shakespeare" stuff got cut for time (before we even went to script).
1.How did you plan for Macbeth and Demona to finally die?.
Who says they do?
Okay! Second question! Macbeth!!! He's got to be one of my favorite antagonists, because he's not truly evil at heart and such.
1) Would King Arthur and Macbeth ever crossed paths again? I'm like positive this answers yes so onto the next question.
2) I'm pretty much guessing that King Arthur isn't immortal. He's always captured my fancy because he was a regular man, who accomplished so much. With help from others and such but hey.... now to my question so its not off topic. Would Macbeth of ever inherited Excalibur?
(10 to 1 you don't give the answer to that. heheh)
2. Inherited? No. Not the word I'd use.
Some Questions About MacBeth:
1) In "A light house in the sea of time," MacBeth says "The Scrolls of Merlin, Seeld by my own hand." Did he mean the He (MacBeth) seeled the scrolls?
2) If that is the case, then did MacBeth know Arthur and
Merlin, or were they before his time? In pendragon, he did seem kinda shocked that that was King Arthur, so it make for a conflict.
the Next two also relate to MacBeth...
3. Did Macbeth Know that a play was being written about him by Shakespear and did he ever "see" the play?
4. Did Demona ever see MacBeth, because she knew it was about Macbeth?
5. Did MacBeth MEET Shakespear?
1. No. (Admit it, no one ever reads the archives.) Macbeth was reading that. Meaning, he read that Merlin sealed it with HIS own hand.
2. So, no, they were before his time.
3. Yes. And yes.
4. I'm sure she's seen it.
5. Yes. (Yeah, no one ever reads the archives.)
How much does Macbeth know about the Weird Sisters involvement in his life, and how does he feel about it? (for example he thinks that their overall involvement was beneficial or destructive to him, how would he react if he were to meet them, etc?)
How does Demona feel?
Both Macbeth and Demona are remarkably ignorant of the Weird Sisters OVERALL involvement. Of course they know the Sisters were involved with them way back then. And I'd lay odds that they've seen the sisters once or twice since then. But my guess is that Mac's view is more neutral. Think of your own responses to the sisters after CITY, before their later appearances. I'm not sure he'd necessarily be happy to see them. But I don't think he'd regard them as enemies, or as huge manipulators of his life.
Demona hates their guts. But not for rational reasons. They're just someone else to blame for her problems.
Just read your reply to my comments on your "Hercules" episode and your rambling in general about Theseus and the Bastard role. I very much enjoyed reading it.
I found your comments on Mary Stewart and Mary Renault interesting, since I recently read "The King Must Die" after you spoke highly of it in the Station 8 Comment Room a while back, very much enjoyed it, and found that it reminded me in its general tone of Stewart's Merlin trilogy, in that it similarly successfully produced a version of the legend that was rationalized and yet retained a strong sense of wonder and awe. I could actually believe with Renault's Theseus, as with Stewart's Arthur and Merlin, that these events really could have inspired a legend that would last for thousands of years.
BTW, I found your comments on Luach's parentage interesting, since I was aware of how, in actual history, he was supposed to be Gillecomgain's son. I personally couldn't help but think that, if Gillecomgain actually was Luach's father, then it was ironic that Luach was the one supporting Demona in Macbeth's council in 1057.
Me too. I loved that irony. It was impossible to play all of it in City of Stone. The thing was so crowded as it was. And the whole implication of adultery between Macbeth and Gruoch had to be so sub-surface as to be non-existence. So for the general audience, I allowed the simple interpretation that Macbeth was Luach's father and that he was conceived and born AFTER Mac and Gru were wed.
But I very consciously didn't contradict the actual history or the GOSSIP. So anyone who did more research would get a little added bonus.
Working stories on multiple levels gives me pleasure. And, I believe, makes for better television.
In real history, Luach was the son not of Macbeth, but of Gillecomgain. Is this also true in the gargoyles universe? And if so, was Macbeth aware of it? (And if yes, very cool of him, don't you think? :-)
As I'm sure I've said before, in the stories I've read, Luach (or Lulach) was during Gilcomgain's lifetime rumored to be the son of Macbeth. Once Macbeth adopted the boy, the gossip wind shifted, and everyone became convinced that Lulach was really Gilcomgain's.
Sometimes you just can't win.
In the Gargoyles Universe I left it intentionally ambiguous for that reason.
In "City of Stone", Bodhe advised Macbeth to abandon his alliance with Demona so as to short-circuit Canmore's propaganda campaign, i.e., the English had, according to Bodhe, only invaded Scotland to wipe out Demona's clan and were only fighting Macbeth because of his alliance with them, so that if Macbeth cut off his alliance with the gargs, Canmore would be left without an army. In your opinion, how accurate was his assessment of the situation? I noticed that even after Demona and the other gargoyles left, the English still went ahead and attacked Castle Moray - and they evidently continued to fight for Canmore against Luach even after Demona's clan was wiped out. So, was Bodhe mistaken about the English motives?
I think almost without exception, Bodhe was a cowardly idiot.
I just like to think he died a good death defending his grandson.
Another episode by episode ramble. Feedback encouraged.
So here's where all that great continuity got us in major trouble.
The episodes were all designed to play in a certain order. But I didn't tell my bosses that in advance. I know it sounds sneaky, but it wasn't really. We wrote the darn things and sent them off in order. It never occured to me they wouldn't be able to come back and air in order. I mean, how could a newer episode get the jump on an older one? How could an older episode not be ready before a newer one? Then the footage came back on "Enter Macbeth".
This was the first episode not animated in Japan. And immediately we knew we were in trouble. I'm not talking about the version you all have seen. The one that aired. I'm talking about stuff you never saw. Much of the original footage we got was unusable. This wasn't about just calling retakes. This wasn't about us bitching how "Thrill" wasn't as well animated as "Awakening". This was a major disaster. So my bosses said: "Air the next one." And I responded, "We can't."
And not just because they were all designed to air in order. It was a horrible coincidence, but this episode, this episode that was unairable, was a tentpole. Yeah, if Thrill or Temptation had been reordered it would have been sad. Same with "The Edge" and "Long Way To Morning". But big deal, right? Better to get a new episode out and not make the audience deal with repeats this early in the season. (Remember, we had aired our first five episodes in one week. This was only week five. In those days, week five was considered way too early in the year for reruns.)
But this was the follow-up to Elisa's injury. It was important to us that we continue our policy of "repercussions". We put her on crutches to show that a gunshot wasn't something that was solved in twenty-two minutes. This was an ongoing recovery. If you pulled the crutches out by airing Edge next, you blew out the sense of repercussions.
But that wasn't the clincher. Of course, the clincher was the Clock Tower. This was the episode where the Gargs were "banished" from the castle and moved to the Clock Tower. That was a major shift. If we cut straight to Edge, the audience would be lost. Fortunately, Gary was convinced. In a way, I was lucky that our first crisis of order came on such a pivotal "tentpole" episode. We couldn't reorder these. So we went with reruns. But it was a lesson learned. And it would effect the way we approached the second season.
But meanwhile, we had the problem at hand. We couldn't reanimate the entire show. So we picked shots to redo judiciously. There are still some awful looking scenes. When Goliath says, "How Dare You?!" to Elisa, he looks like an Animaniacs parody of Goliath. And that sarcophogus/iron maiden thing that Goliath follows Macbeth through looks like a prop out of CHIP N DALE'S RESCUE RANGERS. (Another perfectly good series, but with a slightly different art style, if you know what I mean.) Or how about the GIANT remote that Macbeth pulls from his duster in order to summon his ship? "Enter Macbeth" is still, as aired, the worst looking episode of the first season. And that really killed Frank and I, because we both really loved this story. We were sure that the bad animation would kill any interest in Macbeth. The fact that generally, the character did catch hold of fandom's collective imagination is a true testament to the work of Steve Perry, Michael Reaves, John Rhys-Davies and Jamie Thomason. And, oh, yes... William Shakespeare.
The weak picture forced us to use a lot of little tricks to get a final cut. One thing we did, which I regret, is reuse dialogue. Elisa says "You aren't safe here" like three times. And it isn't three different takes. It's just the exact same take reprinted and reused. Lex & Brooklyn also reuse lines to get Bronx to find Goliath. That sort of thing drives me nuts.
There is one really nice moment in the animation. When Macbeth chooses his sword off the wall, the reflection effect is quite sweet. And I also like the down shot of Bronx running right down the middle of Broadway (the street not the gargoyle). I also love how Goliath makes no attempt to hide. That really spoke to the Gargoyles attitude about living among humans. They wouldn't hold press conferences, but they would not cower.
Anyway, we ran reruns. Awakenings. And obviously all five episodes on five consecutive weeks. That might have been a good thing for people who had heard about the show by word of mouth in week two or later and needed to catch up. But for anyone who had been following the show from its premiere, it was a long time to wait for new episodes. By the time we came back, so much time had passed since "Deadly Force" that we felt the need to put a "Previously on Gargoyles" at the head of the episode. Another trick I cribbed from HILL STREET BLUES. Cartoons rarely did that sort of thing. Sure multi-parters had to. But single episodes... For some reason, it made me feel very grown up. (Which only proves how immature I really am.) The "Previously" also allowed us to cut 30 more seconds of bad looking footage out of the episode. That little bonus was something I'd remember for season two as well.
As we pushed guns in the previous episode, this one is laced with the imagery and language of home. What is it? What makes it? What price is one willing to pay to keep or secure it? There are four homes depicted. Well, really five. The Gargoyles' castle. Xanatos' prison. Macbeth's mansion. The Clock Tower. And the Castle again, once it is reclaimed by Xanatos and thus becomes a very, very different place.
I tried to make sure, as much as possible, that every episode had that kind of underlying theme. (I recently tried with very limited success to do the same thing in MAX STEEL. Someone asked me once, why the one-word S-Titles for all the Max Steel episodes. They were my attempt to make me and the writers focus on the theme of each story.)
And how do all these homes turn out? Macbeth is so obsessed that he loses his home to a fire. Xanatos finally gets out of prison. (Not on Halloween by the way, or that would make the dates depicted in Double Jeopardy innacurate. Obviously, Halloween was circled on his calendar because the guy just loves Halloween. And after all, Owen specifically says in a LATER scene that Xanatos has one week left before he gets out. The wall calendar had shown only a few days.) The Gargoyles lose the castle, gain the clock tower, but realize that home is literally where the heart is. And Xanatos... well all other concerns of Grimorum and gargoyle of destruction and competition pale next to the simple pleasure of being back home.
And how many of you were suprised that the Gargoyles lost the castle? That was supposed to be another pretty shocking development. I mean, sure, Batman might lose the Batcave for an episode, but for 56 episodes? When Goliath said "We'll be back to claim that which is ours" at the end, did most of you think he'd be back next week? Next month? By the time, the gang finally did return in chapter 65, did anyone still remember Goliath's vow?
I've discussed this before, but Macbeth's origins (at least in terms of our series) were (ironically) an early attempt to play the notion of THE HUNTER. I was looking for someone human who could physically take on the Gargoyles as prey. Someone smart, with an agenda. We actually started with the notion of trying to create our own KRAVEN THE HUNTER type character. But it quickly moved in its own direction. Frankly, away from Kraven and more toward BATMAN. In those days, we were constantly being told that we would be accused of ripping off Batman. So Frank, Michael and I decided to create a villain who, at least in M.O. would be our Batman.
I had a semi-separate idea to add a human to the cast who was from Goliath's time. Thus creating a good thematic nemesis or opposite for him. (The key to creating a good villain, in my opinion.) But this villain would have lived through the centuries. So that he was familiar with the very latest in technology. This dove-tailed with our anti-Batman, and was also exactly how we viewed Demona. So it soon became clear to Michael and I that the two characters must be connected in some way. That suggested that he shouldn't merely be 1000 years old. He should be Scottish as well. All that was left was a name. And given my love of Shakespeare, I'm surprised it took me so long to figure it out. Our nemesis was Macbeth himself. An immortal Scottish King. What Scottish King was more immortal than Macbeth? More mortal too for that matter.
This was the beginning of countless Shakespearian references that I would either slide (or force) into the show, or that the writers would stick in knowing I was a sucker for them. And I love the little exchange between Lex & Brooklyn...
LEX: "Wasn't "Macbeth" the name of that play by that new writer Shakespeare that Goliath was talking about?"
BROOKLYN: "Have you read it?"
LEX: "No. Have you?"
BROOKLYN: "No. But maybe we should."
This was my little way of trying to encourage our viewers to read or at least learn about the play. If they wanted to know who Macbeth was, it wouldn't hurt to go to the primary source.
And at the time, Shakespeare was my primary source for Macbeth. This was long before Tuppence Macintyre and Monique Beatty did all their research for me for "City of Stone". Back then, the only Macbeth I knew about was Shakespeare's.
We gave him a sense of honor, but a twisted one. And we gave him a very interesting motivation. I didn't yet know the particulars, but this guy was after Demona in a major way. He had stained glass windows in his home depicting the two of them. He was the man who named her. It was all pretty intriguing stuff to me. I love the exchange between him and Goliath. Goliath is a pawn. Mac wants the queen and believes that endangering Goliath is the surest way to ensnare Demona. And how does Goliath respond? By gum, if he doesn't laugh -- MANIACALLY!! And watch how the tables turn. Macbeth is not infallible and suddenly Goliath has him on the defensive. Goliath even uses a MACE!! Great stuff.
Incidentally, we had in the script described Macbeth as wearing a thin layer of exo-armor. And Goliath was supposed to dig his claws into it. Macbeth would escape by detaching from the armor. Instead, the artists did the bit with the duster coat. But I remembered the claws in armor thing and eventually found a place for it... in HUNTER'S MOON, PART THREE.
Finally, watching the episode tonight, my five year old daughter said she spotted the Mona Lisa on Macbeth's wall. I didn't see it. But I believe her. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the original. Too bad about that fire.
Thanks for answering my "religion" question. Actually, there are two human characters in the series that you left out whom I'm curious about:
b) King Arthur
What (in your opinion) are their current religions? In particular, do you see the King Arthur of the Gargoyles Universe as a Christian (as per the traditional legends) or something else?
I think Macbeth has been many things over the years. Obviously, he started as a Catholic. Now, I figure he's fairly omnireligious.
As for Arthur, I think he's a Christian. Officially, something of a Catholic... He probably hasn't had cause or opportunity to change.
What was Macbeth's exact relationship to Shakespeare?
They were drinking buddies.
I don't normally approve of letting people take "cuts". Or of breaking rules I've set myself, like the one about separate topics requiring separate posts.
But Lexy is writing a paper on GARGOYLES for her HONOR'S ENGLISH CLASS, and she needed some questions answered. I'm a big fan or Honor's English classes, so I couldn't resist. But I figured you all might be interested in the answers as well. So with Lexy's permission, I'm answering them here.
Thanks SO much for helping me with my paper. I hope
to do you,and the rest of the fandom,proud:) Here are
some questions I whipped up for an interview. But If
you have anything you think would be helpful to add or
to subtract from them, please feel free to do so.
1) What do you think are some reasons ppl find
mythological creatures, such as gargoyles, intriguing
GREG'S RESPONSE: I think people like to let their imaginations run. And why limit those imaginations to what we know exists. If a concept has its own internal logic, something real in its emotions and relationships for an audience to grab a solid hold too, then there's little limit to how far-fetched the fantasy can get.
2) What started your personal fascination with
GREG'S RESPONSE: A high school trip to Europe and hearing the tidbit that Gargoyles were placed on castles and cathedrals to scare away evil spirits. The notion that monsters were used against evil was very intriguing. And this was years before we developed the series.
3) Name some of your favorite books or stories you
enjoyed when growing up.
GREG'S RESPONSE: Wow. Um. How far back to you want to go? GO, DOG, GO was an early favorite. Later, I liked the Hobbit. I liked reading about myths of all kinds. I had the D'Aulaire's GREEK MYTHS and NORSE GODS & GIANTS books and I reread those over and over. I also was always a big fan of detective fiction. I liked Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. Later, Conan Doyle, some Christie, but my favorites were Hammett, Chandler and ROSS MacDonald. I loved the LEW ARCHER novels. I liked Heinlein in Science Fiction. "Requiem" is a heartbreakingly beautiful little story. I liked Mary Stewart and especially Mary Renault. I read a lot. I liked a lot of diverse stuff. I could go on for hours.
4) Did anything in particular inspire you to create
GREG'S RESPONSE: I've spoken to this before. Gummi Bears was an inspiration, as was Hill Street Blues (my all-time favorite tv show). My on-going fascination with stone gargoyles. And the pragmatic need to be constantly feeding the Dragon that was the Disney Afternoon.
5) Do you believe that gargoyles and other statuary
such as grotesques are rooted in evil traditions? Or
are they there for the common good through harsh
GREG'S RESPONSE: Neither. I think they are symbolic (or rather emblematic) of something primitive and primal. They scare away evil. Not all monsters are against us. We need our dreams and nightmares.
6) (circa) When did you start work on the television
GREG'S RESPONSE: 1991.
7) When and why (circa) were you (and others) forced
to cancel 'Gargoyles'?
GREG'S RESPONSE: The question is phrased in such a way that it's difficult to answer directly. We never planned to do more than 65 episodes. That was a standard run for any show. Now in huge success, a show (like DuckTales for example) made additional episodes, and I won't deny I had hopes that we would to. But the answer came back no. Our ratings were strong. But we were a consistent second place to Power Rangers. So we weren't cancelled. But new episodes would not be made. Then ABC and Disney merged, and ABC wanted some Gargoyles. All my bosses at Disney had left and the new management wanted their own people on the show. So they made me an offer to continue that was designed to make me say no. In hindsight, I should have said yes anyway, but that's spilt milk. I left and they made additional episodes for ABC under the Goliath Chronicles banner. The ratings were not good. Neither, in my opinion, were the episodes. So it wasn't renewed.
8) What did the television show 'Gargoyles'mean to you
as it's creator?
GREG'S RESPONSE: It was and continues to be the highlight of my professional career. Nothing I've done, before or since, let me bring my vision so intact to the screen. It was very collaborative, not every idea was mine, but I still feel like that was the one show that achieved what I hoped it would achieved. I'm ridiculously proud of it, beyond all reason, really.
9) What was the central theme or message of the show ?
GREG'S RESPONSE: There wasn't just one. Among the messages was the obvious DON'T JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER moral. Plus plenty about the preciousness of life and hope. Themes of redemption are very important to me. Guilt, fear, love, trust, loyalty. You name it, at some point we through it in. Often episode titles were designed to remind both audience and writer of what the major theme in that story was.
10) How many Gatherings have you attended?
GREG'S RESPONSE: All three. Two in NYC. One in Dallas. And I hope to continue to go as long as you folks want me.
11) What is your opinion of the Gatherings?
GREG'S RESPONSE: It is always one of the true highlights of my year. How could it not be? I'm basically treated like royalty for 72 straight hours. Since that doesn't happen to a guy like me much in real life, it's pretty damn cool.
12) What do you hope ppl who watch 'Gargoyles'will
come away with?
GREG'S RESPONSE: First and foremost, I hope they were entertained. Not a little, but a lot, and on multiple levels. I hope we got the adrenaline going. I hope we touched their hearts. I hope we gave them something to think about. I hope we educated them a bit, or more likely gave them reason to want to be educated about, say SHAKESPEARE or Scottish History or King Arthur or Native American customs or whatever. I'm greedy. I want all of this.
13) What did you like most about the show 'Gargoyles'?
GREG'S RESPONSE: I'm not objective enough to answer this one.
14) What did you like most about working on the show
GREG'S RESPONSE: Honestly, the autonomy. The freedom. I also had some incredibly talented collaborators and when we were in gear, we really hummed. But for sheer fun, it's hard to beat those voice recording sessions. That was the part of the job that generally was the least like work. It's where all the potentials of the show come to life and few of the problems are revealed. Just fun.
15) Why incorporate so many classic dramas and other
time honored themes within 'Gargoyles'?
GREG'S RESPONSE: Purely for my own amusement. And with the hope that some people will either also be amused or will come to be amused as they discover these things. Plus it made my job easier. The story of Macbeth is so good, that adapting it practically wrote itself.
Thanks so much for all your help:)!
GREG'S RESPONSE: You are welcome. Let me know if I can be of any more help.
its me again. i just went to the archives and i did`t see this question ask so i will ask it. wen Demona become a human because of puck and she is closes to MaCbeth he feel the pain of her turning into a human and wen she turns back into a gargoyle. well why is it that wen Demona and Elisa are battling in the part that MaCbeth does`t feel he pain wen she is being hurt by Elisa? and wen Coldstond hits Macbeth why is it that demona does`t feel his pain? does the spell from the sister not work wen Demona is human? if not does that mean that Demona can be killed as a human?
ty for your time
Part of the true answer is that we sort of lost track of the pain thing in that one scene. We screwed up.
But I'd argue that they did feel the pain. They were just prepared and covering.
Have you decided when or how it was that Macbeth learned magic? Would the name of his teacher be one we would recognize?
Teachers. Plural. Though mostly self-taught.
did macbeth fight in any wars after 1057? and if so which ones?
what happened to gruoch after macbeths "death"?
She died shortly after her son and father were killed in battle against Canmore.
1.does the illuminatti know about macbeth?
2.does macbeth know about the illuminatti?
1. I don't know.
you said that demona by 2158 would be a firm ally with the clan what about macbeth would he be a ally as well?
Macbeth will be much less involved in 2158. Something of a hermit. (Although don't take that too literally.) Maybe in 2159 or 2160 he'd become more of a player again.
In how much detail have you plotted the lifes of Macbeth and Demona in the years between 1057 and 1994? Do you know only some tidbits of their lifes (as for example the one you mentioned that Macbeth knew Shakespeare) or have you plotted them and their movements to some greater extent?
Did Macbeth and Demona meet any time between 1057 and 1995? Or was 'City of Stone' their first meeting after so many centuries? Did they meet the Weird Sisters again?
The Weird Sisters were watching them, but I think largely with maybe a couple of exceptions, they stayed out of sight.
Macbeth and Demona definitely had a handful of encounters over the centuries.
As for what I've plotted, well, as you said, I have a few tidbits and a sense of the sweep. But, no, I don't have a detailed account in my head of what happened to each character.
when demona told brooklyn about what she did during the centurys what did she tell him,did she tell him about macbeth?
In "Temptation"? No. I think people have the notion that Demona and Brooklyn had a lot going on off-screen and/or between scenes of that episode. (Again, Christine, I've heard the rumors.) But it ain't true in the cannon. What you saw was largely what took place.
do the wierd sisters have any future plans for macbeth and demona?
is macbeth still hunting demona?
every time some one asks what demona or macbeth did in world war 2 you say a lot or your not going to write a novel length answer in this format could you at least tell us some of what they did during the war?
No. Not today. Mostly because the ideas I have would require research into WWII that I have not yet had time to do. That kind of relative accuracy was one of the hallmarks of the series, and I'm not about to get sloppy now.
will macbeth and demona ever reconcile?
Depends what you mean...
1.how could macbeth have gotten his and demonas marriage anulled since he would have needed her there to get it anulled?
I don't know what he had to do legally. I've never done the research. But if a spouse abandons you before the marriage is even consumated, I think that probably helps grease the wheels. It's also possible that Macbeth's lawyers were even able to contact Dominique Destine's representatives. I don't think Demona would have contested the proceeding.
Hi Greg, just one question; whatever did Demona think of the play Macbeth?
Probably that it represented poetic justice.
some questions on my fave immortal Scotsman:
1) to which extent is MacBeth able to use magic? i guess he could handle the Grimorum Arcanorum.
2)what would happen if MacBeth killed Duncan McCloud?
3)what does MacBeth do in 'Future Tense'? for that matter, why is Xanatos able to kill Demona in cyberspace?
4)would MacBeth be one of the Good Guys in Gargoyles 2158? i sincerely hope so.
5)did you actually know that MacBeth's name means "son of life" in Gaelic, or was he chosen because of his particular history? if it's a coincidence, that's a nice one.
'K, this is it for now, keep up the good work, cy around
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2. Who exactly is your favorite immortal Scotsman? Look, I'm not too interested in theorizing about cross-overs. That seems like something you should have your own fun doing.
3. Macbeth isn't part of Puck's illusion.
4. Macbeth is still alive in 2158, but I don't see him having a major roll, at least not early on. Maybe in 2159 or 2160.
5. Didn't know. Thanks for filling me in.
I noticed there was considerable space between "Enter Macbeth" and the "City Of Stone" miniseries that explained his and Demona's history. Was it your intention to keep us guessing or did the storyline just work out that way?
Are those options mutually exclusive?
Greg, I was the one who asked about the Demona/macbeth link carrying over to delilah, namely because if Delilah was created from half of Demona's DNA, would the link be part of her DNA or would it be connected to her in another way, like through her soul?
I don't see any connection existing there.
A little side-note. I happened to see the episode that you wrote for "Disney's Hercules" - I thought I'd mention it after noticing that somebody else on the list mentioned it. I quite enjoyed it - particularly the portrayal of Theseus as a sort of ancient Greek version of "Batman". I also noticed, as a side-note, that there was a certain thematic echo of "Hunter's Moon" in it (although I don't know if you'd intended it or not) where Hercules got so caught up in his efforts to wreak vengeance upon the Minotaur that he lost sight of what was really important, much the same way as Goliath in his pursuit of the Hunters.
First off, Todd, thanks for the kind words.
There are certain themes that interest me, and so you'll see them revisited in my work (probably ad nauseum) over and over. The theme of, well, let's call it "What Profit Vengeance?" is one of my favorites. So I wasn't deliberately trying to echo "Hunter's Moon" so much as I was servicing a set of ideas that seemed apropos to both series.
As for the Theseus-as-Batman stuff. Well, that's a no-brainer. The Superman/Batman dynamic -- that is the teaming of a hero possessing superhuman abilities with a hero who merely makes the best possible use of his human abilities -- originated with Herakles and Theseus. (Or at any rate, it goes back that far.) So the notion of flipping that, and playing Herc/Theseus as Superman/Batman seemed wonderfully ironic and a fertile place to find comedy.
In high school, I acted in a play called THE WARRIOR'S HUSBAND. I played Theseus, and I've had a real affinity for the character ever since. In that play, Hercules was kind of a mope. (Very strong, but a mope.) The Greeks were waging war against the Amazons. Hercules was in charge, but Theseus was the real brains of the operation. Yet he's also the guy who really falls hard in love for Antiope, sister to Queen Hyppolyta. So instead of conquering -- as he had originally intended -- Theseus winds up manipulating everyone into a compromise. I like that in a hero.
Theseus is part of a sub-genre of archetypes, (an off-shoot of Trickster figures like Puck, Coyote or Odysseus/Ulysses). He's the primary example of the Archetype of "THE BASTARD", which includes such diverse characters as Shakespeare's Edmund from KING LEAR, Joan of Arc's ally Dunois and multiple characters from Arthurian legend (including Merlin, Arthur, Percival, Galahad and Mordred). There are so many parallels between Arthur and Theseus that reading Mary Stewart and Mary Renault seemed almost redundant. (Not really.)
In fact, Luach (or Lulach) is also a prime candidate for that archetype. When he was born, Gruoch was still married to Gillecomgain. But gossip around the castle hinted that the babe's true father was Macbeth. After Macbeth and Gruoch married, Macbeth adopted the boy as his own. At which point the gossip shifted to insist that Gillecomgain was the boy's father. (You can't win.) Pre-DNA testing, there would be no way for Luach to ever be certain of the truth. Maybe Macbeth didn't even know. Hell, Gruoch might not know.
Life's a bitch when you're a bastard.
When "City of Stone" was first written and produced were you planning that the Hunter legacy would continue through the Canmore family or had you thought that Macbeth had taken up the mask and was now the last of the Hunters?
Well, it's more complicated then that.
"City of Stone" was originally pitched as a Direct to Video movie. My boss, Gary Krisel, immediately rejected it as a video. (Though, obviously, he had no problem with it being done as episodes.) He felt that a Gargoyle video needed to focus on our heroes -- and I had to admit that "City" was really the story of two of our villains: Macbeth and Demona. Goliath and company have supporting roles at best.
But Gary liked the HUNTER angle. So immediately, Michael Reaves and I came up with the basic story idea for "Hunter's Moon". We made a sincere effort to make both multi-parters stand independent of each other. "City" came first, but the two ideas were born so close together, I can't really give you a definitive answer to your either/or question except to say (in my smart-ass fashion) "Both."
In HIGH NOON when Broadway and Hudson attack Macbeth, Demona feels his pain from across the house. Yet later when Demona is in a fight with Elisa 2 feet way from Macbeth, he feels absolutely nothing. Why is that? Does the spell that allows them to feel each other's pain only apply when she is in her Gargoyle form?
I'd say that Macbeth must have been feeling something, but that he was steeling himself against the pain. (Something he couldn't do when he didn't know the blows were coming.) I realize this is a bit of a cheat, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
1.what were your future plans for demona?
2.what were your future plans for macbeth?
This is not a forum for novel-length responses. You're question is too broad.
I will say that both characters would have been involved in both the main GARGOYLES series and in GARGOYLES 2158.
1.in city of stone part 3 demona said to macbeth that it was always the same he blamed her and she blamed him does that mean that they had met after 1057 and gone into a blaming fit?
I think they've had multiple encounters over the centuries.
1.did macbeth or demona ever meet the wierd sisters after 1057?
The Sisters were watching them. I doubt that Macbeth or Demona would get to see them unless seeing them served the Sisters' purposes.
1.did macbeth actually consider betraying demnoa?
1. No. Absolutely not.
1.what is macbeths opinion on demonas spying on him when bohde made the suggestion to betray her?
My guess is he's pissed. But there's gotta be some self-loathing mixed in as well. If he had included her in the meeting. If he had just not chosen that moment to teach Luach a lesson. If, if, if, if, if, if....
1.did goliath and co ever tell macbeth or demona of what happened on avalon and if so how did they react?
My guess is that no one filled Macbeth in. If they had, then Macbeth would have reacted differently to Arthur in "Pendragon". It's possible that Angela told Demona about it during her "Reckoning" incarceration. But then again, maybe she didn't. I'm not sure that Angela would feel any value would come out of bringing that up.
Would you accept with the assessment that the portrayal of Bodhe throughout 'City of Stone' was that of a spineless coward? (doesn't come to his friend's or even young daughter's aid - gives Gruoch to Gillecomgain - suggests that Macbeth surrenders - suggest that he murders child Canmore) and so on...
I had a lot of contempt for Bodhe. Which may be unfair. Who knows what the historical Bodhe was like? I may have slandered him worse than Shakespeare slandered Macbeth.
But when you just now (back in July) called him a spineless coward, it made me balk. And the reason is that I just saw City, Part IV again recently. (The first episode my grandmother ever saw. All she kept talking about was how attractive Macbeth was.) And Bodhe has a moment when he gives Macbeth's crown to Luach... It suggests to me that maybe late (too late) in life, Bodhe had a change of heart. I like to think that he died a good death, by his grandson's side, fighting for kith, kin and country. (I know. I'm a sap. But I just hate two dimensional characters.)
In the "Avalon" trilogy, the Archmage's arsenal consisted of himself, the Weird Sisters, Demona and Macbeth. Why did he feel the need to have Demona and Macbeth? I know he said they were canon fodder, but why did he even need canon fodder? Couldn't the Weird Sisters have just waved their hands and eradicated every single gargoyle and human on Avalon? Why did he build his assault around those two? For all the trouble that the Weird Sisters went through in obtaining them, it just doesn't seem that they were worth it. How the Archmage told the Sisters to "guide their paths", you would've thought that they were instramental in some way to his plans; that he specifically needed those two. But what's so special about them?
The answer requires looking at the situation on (at least) two levels.
Level One. Taken at face value, he did need cannon fodder. The Sisters had to be very careful how they operated, in order not to break Oberon's Law. And the Archmage had a few personal vendettas he wanted to deal with. So he needed Demona and Macbeth to handle some of the more mundane work of eradicating the enemy.
Level Two. Who said any of this was the Archmage's plan? Well, he did. But he was an arrogant bastard. So do you trust him? Where did he get the plan? By observing his future self carry it out. Where did his future self get the plan? By observing HIS future self carry it out. Maybe there's something larger going on here...
Hi again Greg,
Ok, this question is in reguard to Demona and MacBeth's magical link. We know that they feel each other's pain; but does it only work with pain or do they share all physical sensations with each other?
~The B of R
Pain is more visceral. But they might share other things as well.
When exactly did Macbeth arrive in America for the very first time? (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstructionist, etc.)
Back before it was called America.
How come the spell linking Demona and macbeth didn't carry over to Delilah to a lesser extent?
Why would it?
1. What would be Katana and Nashville's reaction to Malibu?
2. Do you have designs in mind for Katana, Nashville, Tachi, Fudog, and Hudson's mate? If so, could you describe them?
3. You said that Brooklyn ended up with Mary and Finella in the 1970's. So doesn't that mean that they would still be alive today?
4. Why did you say that Shakespeare's MACBETH would amuse Macbeth? It portrays Gruoch as a Princess of Darkness. How can he take pleasure in that?
5. In what era did Demona arrive in America (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstruction, etc)?
6. In what era did Macbeth arrive in America (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstruction, etc)?
7. Now that Renard knows the truth about Anastasia, has it changed anything for him in terms of his feelings for her?
8. Considering that after all is said and done, Goliath was raised and lived most of his life in the 10th century, what is his stand on capital punishment?
9. What are the feelings of the Trio about the Magus and Katharine, considering that they only knew them before they changed, and have never seen their redemption, only heard of it?
10. What are the Mutates feelings about the Gargoyles now living in the castle?
11. Any news on the movie?
12. If you had done BAD GUYS, would Macbeth and/or Demona have appeared?
13. Why didn't anyone ever figure out that Gilcomgain was the Hunter? He has slash marks on his face that match the one's on the mask.
14. Broadway's blindness in FUTURE TENSE, was it just Puck playing with Goliath's sanity AND a prophecy or was it only just Puck playing with Goliath's mind?
15. If the show ever did come back, would you ever bring up or try to make clearer that the people Demona smashed in CITY OF STONE were truly dead?
16. You said that Demona would find love again. But what about Macbeth? Would he have found love again?
17. How rich would you classify Xanatos, Demona, Macbeth, and Post-RECKONING Thailog (Mildly rich, extremely rich, stinking rich, beyond the reach of ordinary people rich)?
18. What did the Mutates do with Sevarious' potion from THE CAGE?
19. Would you have shown us some of Fang's past and also some of his family if BAD GUYS had been done?
20. Can you give us a clue, where in the world, which hemisphere, which continent, where ever, is Coldstone and Coldfire's new clan going to be?
21. What was the name of Xanatos' mother and when did she die?
22. You said you haven't come up with real names for Jackal and Hyena. But do you have anything in mind?
23. Does Macbeth know about the Illuminati?
24. Does the Illuminati know about Macbeth?
25. Would we have seen some of Lexington's descendants in GARGOYLES 2158?
1. That would depend on the circumstances of their introduction, don't you think?
2. I've dealt with this recently. I do have a fairly clear idea about Fu Dog. But I'm not going to pin myself down at this point.
3. Doesn't preclude the possibility.
4. It has a lot to do with Mac's relationship to Will.
5. In the immortal words of my Magic Eightball: "Try Again Later".
6. Which time?
7. What exactly does he know?
8. He probably has little trouble with it but feels that in an ideal world (which he knows this is not) it's a less than stellar solution. Of course, that's all very theoretical. In practice, we've seen how he responds.
10. The Mutates aren't a monolith.
11. Nothing new, since I last answered.
12. Maybe, eventually, but not in my immediate plans.
13. Dramatic license? Or.... There were a lot of people with similar scars running around Scotland back then. Yeah. That's the ticket.
14. You didn't really think I'd answer that, did you?
15. You mean go out of my way to cover that?
16. Sure. Why not? (I'm such an old softy.)
17. Xanatos is Beyond the Reach rich. Macbeth is just stinking rich. Demona's extremely rich. Thailog's just rich.
18. Maggie saved it.
21. Not saying now.
22. Jack and Hanna. (Just kidding.) (Unless, I decide that those names really amuse me.)
23. Not saying.
24. Not saying.
25. Not saying.
Would we have seen William Shakespeare appear in the series (Not just his plays but himself personally)?
Eventually, yes. But I would have tackled his inclusion with great trepidation and reluctance. To be honest, he's hard for me to get my head around as a person. Maybe I'm just too big a fanboy.
Actually, SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE might have given me a model that I could have used. Yeah....
<SOUND OF WHEELS TURNING...>
Glad to see AskGreg is back up.
1. Does Demona know about the Illuminati Society?
2. Does the Illuminati Society know about Demona?
3. Why exactly did you decide that Jackal and Hyena would become Cyborgs and that Wolf would become a Mutate? Why specifically that combination instead visa versa?
4. How long has Nokkar's intergalactic war been going on?
5. What happened to the helicopter Lexington fixed in HER BROTHERS KEEPER?
6. You said that New Olympians generally live for 13-250 years. So would any of the New Olympians we know be alive and around in 2158?
7. How does the Avalon Clan feel about Demona and Macbeth? (They must know those two weren't acting under their own will during the fight with the Archmage but to someone who they injured that little bit of information might not exactly displace anger at being injured.)
8. After all these years, does Macbeth know that Demona was listioning outside his window when Bodhe suggested betraying her clan to the English?
9. What are the Mutates feelings towards Alex Xanatos?
10. Why didn't Xanatos try to make Coldfire and Clodsteel look more "alive"; meaning why not slap some fake flesh on them like he did for Cyoti 1.0?
11. In POSSESSION, why wasn't Angela shocked at seeing Coldstone? After all when Goliath first saw him, he called him an abomination.
12. What was Goliath thinking in SANCTUARY and MARK OF THE PANTHER when he kept tellin Angela that she has many mothers and fathers? Who was he thinking of? There's only him, Hudson, Coldstone, Demona, and the Trio at that point. Did he seriously expect the Trio to think of Anglea as their daughter?
13. In 2158, how do you picture the world political status? Are there still seperate countries for example?
14. What is the legal status of Gargoyles in 2158?
15. What is Renard's opinion of Petros Xanatos?
2. Quite a bit.
3. A lot had to do with what felt right for the characters I guess. Wolf was very animalistic and hostile. Seemed perfect to make him a genetic werewolf. Jackal & Hyena were just nuts. A sociopath and a psychopath. It felt right that they would take things to the ultimate extreme.
4. Quite some time, young feller.
5. Kenner decided not to make a toy out of it.
6. That wasn't my plan.
7. Indiviuals all react differently. I'm not going to give you thirty-six individual responses.
8. I think he figured it out that night on Lunfanan Hill.
9. Which Mutate?
10. Fake gargoyle flesh? What would be the point?
11. Well, the truth here is that Angela had seen him already in the Himalayas. At least that had been my plan if the comic book hadn't been cancelled.
12. He was trying to instill in her the idea that her preoccupation with her biological parentage was an unhealthy human notion. (And since he knew Demona was her biological mother, you can see where his fear was coming from.) Of course, he lost the forest for the trees as Diane Maza pointed out in "Mark". He tried to make up for it later.
13. Yes and no.
14. Protected minority.
15. They barely know each other. And on some level, I think they'd get along, except for one thing... Renard hates David. And though Petros doesn't approve of much of his son's actions, I can't see him standing calmly by while someone else berates his son. Blood. Whatchagonnado?