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First of all, I apologize for posting the question about Crisis On Infinite Earths. I missed that one while browsing the archives, anyway I have a few comments:
1. I'll be getting the JLA Showcase. The issue with the Captain Atom/JLE/Gargoyles. For anyone else reading who has a question about the issue, its: JLA Showcase #1 (February 2000) 80 Page.
2. I'm sure this would be on topic since like question 1 it is about comic book heroes. You considered the Original Pack to be a cross between Power Rangers/Professional Wrestling, and Macbeth to be an Anti-Batman. Now could Xanatos be considered an Anti-Iron Man?
Both Xanatos and Tony Stark are both wealthy, as well as having facial hair and wear a suit of tech armor.
What do you think?
It's possible. But it wasn't what was in the forefront of my brain at the time... among other things, I didn't have the armor idea when we created the character.
But I've been a big Tony Stark/Iron Man fan since childhood, so maybe he was an influence.
Although one could easily and objectively demonstrate that Captain Hook was an influence too, so keep in mind that many things contribute to the whole.
Thanks for the "Vendettas" ramble, Greg! We're really coming along here beautifully.
The big problem that I had with "Vendettas" when I first saw it was Hakon's return. I thought that it felt anticlimactic after "Shadows of the Past" - particularly since Hakon's second ghostly attack with Goliath consisted of simply teaming up with a big dumb werewolf! But while I had some difficulties with the Hakon part, I really enjoyed the Vinnie part.
I was startled to learn that Wolf was Hakon's descendant, but did find their quarrels and Hakon's disgust at Wolf's stupidity amusing. (It now reminds me a little of the idea in the original comedy development of the evil sorcerer from the Middle Ages and his unworthy descendant Xavier being at odds with each other.)
I agree with you that Hakon and Wolf's weapon would have worked better as a mace - but I also liked (as you did) Wolf's line "Tonight is battle-axe night!", which makes up for that. I don't think that "Tonight is mace night!" would have been as amusing a line. (It certainly doesn't have as good a rhythm to it.)
When I first saw this episode, I thought it more than a little far-fetched that the motorcycle rider from "Awakening Part Three", the guard on board Fortress-1 in "Awakening Part Four", and the security guard at Gen-U-Tech in "The Cage" were all the same guy, but now I can accept it. I got a big kick out of Vinnie's narration and the way that it clashed with what really happened (especially the part where he was talking about doing everything that he could to stop Goliath from kidnapping Sevarius, while we see him with his nose buried in his newspaper). I got a real kick out of him in a hurry, in fact.
And it would be like him to give his pie-throwing gun a name (though, if you can accept swords like Excalibur having names, why not pie-guns as well? I can just see what Hudson would have to say about this, with his "Must you humans name everything?" comment).
Vinnie does remind me a bit of Wile E. Coyote beyond the Acme supplier; like Wile E., his humiliating moments wind up being mostly self-inflicted!
Another scene that I found entertaining (this one about Hakon and Wolf): when Goliath and Hudson go charging at Wolf, Wolf boastfully says that he'll swat them both like gnats, and the next moment, is sent flying through the wall before he even has the opportunity to do anything!
And the bit about the construction worker who, after seeing Goliath and Hudson, is convinced that it must be hallucinations imposed from his cough medicine (although if his cough medicine is that strong, he definitely shouldn't be operating heavy machinery!).
And then there's the bit at the beginning about Hudson wondering why New York's called the Big Apple.
I was definitely surprised when Mr. Carter's ammunition turned out to be a banana cream pie. But it was just the sort of thing that Vinnie would do. One thing about Vinnie: he's the only guy in the series who ever got revenge on Goliath, something that the Archmage, Demona, the Pack, the Hunters, etc. all failed to do - though the fact that his means of revenge were baked goods doubtless had a lot to do with that.
I still wonder where Vinnie heard the "Gargoyles" theme music sometimes. :)
The fact that Goliath, both times that he meets Vinnie (in this episode and "The Journey"), can't even figure out who he is, is all the more appropriate in light of your remark that Vinnie owes much to yourself. I'm reminded of a "Peanuts" strip that came out shortly after Charles Schulz was Grand Marshal of the Tournament of Roses Parade. Lucy was shown watching the parade on television; Linus asked her if the Grand Marshal had shown up yet, Lucy replied, "You just missed him, but he wasn't anybody you ever heard of."
" (It now reminds me a little of the idea in the original comedy development of the evil sorcerer from the Middle Ages and his unworthy descendant Xavier being at odds with each other.)"
Nothing is ever wasted on a Greg Weisman show. (I'm like Xanatos that way. I'm also like Vinnie. Heck, they're ALL me!) ;)
Why is New York called the Big Apple?
In the episode Vows, why does Demona bother trying to change what her younger self did to prevent the massacre? You cannot change history, so I don't understand her motivation. You could say she didn't know that rule but I would expect that a soceress that has lived for over a thousand years would know that.
Also she would have remembered everything that happened to her when she was younger (though maybe her memory would be rusty after a 1000 years but she does tell Goliath that she remembers her speech) so what would be the logic and motivation for her to go into the past if she knows she failed and act exactly how she remembered and FAIL like she remembered. Did she only go because she had to go because she remembered it happening? The whole time being fixed says she had to go to remember failing, but that still doesn't explain her motivation for doing something she knew wouldn't work out. Or perhaps her motivation was to see herself as innocent again? To remember why she did what she did at the last wedding she attended with Goliath? Agh...this turns into a big wouldn't one cancel out the other and get all confusing thing...
Also considering that Demona is a thousand years old, what did she do for all that time? The some of it is shown in the episodes, but nothing really after the whole hunter thing and macbeth, and that was a long time ago. Wouldn't a thousand years be enough time for her to travel around the world and find other clans so she would not have ended up so alone?
Also really old characters always bother me. I know you cannot assume that wisdom comes with great age, but I wonder how someone could live that long and not really mature at all? I guess that adds to the insanity, that everything else changes and you don't so that would add to her whole "alone" complex and anger.
Heh sorry for the long question/ramble...
Demona was hoping that you COULD change history. Since the Gate was broken, there wasn't any time travel in her long past to know for sure how the system worked. She was hoping she could avoid Goliath's appearance. She knew he showed up, but she didn't know how that happened, so she was hoping... hoping...
It's interesting that Demona is so full of hope. Hmmmmm.... Maybe it's just denial.
I won't pretend I've mapped out ALL of Demona's 1000 years, but I have a few key events in mind. As to her stunted growth... well, I know a lot of wise old people myself. And I know a lot of wise old idiots too. So I based her on REAL LIFE. ;)
My Puck/Owen Ramble:
I didn't see it coming, okay? Maybe I'm thick or something but I did not have the -slightest- clue that Owen was really the Puck. Did. Not. See it. I was blown away, to put it mildly. I fell out of my chair and frothed for a bit. Having managed to see these episodes in order, I'd seen all of Owen's episodes and Puck's and still didn't see it coming. Later, when I re-watched City of Stone, I fell over again: YOU KNEW ALL ALONG!! HINTS!!! EVERYWHERE!!! AGhthth!
As to the stone fist, I'd read it like this: Owen didn't know -what- the cauldron would do, but figured if it was something really bad, he could always get a new hand, given some time. His faith in Xanatos' technology was quite high, and there was ample evidence that Xanatos was developing loyalty-like emotions of his own. (I say loyalty-like because frankly Xanatos is one scary bugger, even post-Gathering.) As for Xanatos, I (wrongly, it turned out) read him as really feeling something there, some shock, some dismay and even sympathy, BUT knowing that the worst thing he could express was sympathy. It's not the Xanatos way to cry over spilled milk, or even a few gallons of spilled blood. You arch an eyebrow, make a mental note, and go on. To me at least, he did Owen a great service by reacting in the most Xanatos way possible, and in fact anything else would have been an insult to what I thought at the time was a huge (but on some level, justified as it IS freaking immortality) sacrifice.
(That last bit works really well even if you know about Puck, but it's far less dramatically heavy and more of a sublimely funny moment the two friends share. To translate the lines into Dude-where's-my-car-ese: "Hey, check it. Human form, human effects." "Huh huh. Awesome." The pair are actually -both- parodying themselves here, Owen being subserviant to the point of near-insanity, and Xanatos blowing it off. I like to think that here Xanatos is kind of thinking to himself "boy, I'm kind of a jerk, aren't I" but having more fun playing the part than any sort of remorse-like emotions.
If I somehow haven't said it enough, holy crap Gargoyles is the awesomeness, I've bought two copies each of the two DVD sets out, and I am obsessed with Xanatos' scary hotness. I have a LiveJournal icon of him from "The Edge" with the words "OMG XANATOS!" blinking underneath it. A toast to the prettiest, scariest, yummiest villain of all time.
I appreciate your compliments, but I also really LOVE your analysis of the characters. The fact that Owen turned out to be Puck doesn't change most of what you wrote.
As for that revelation, our goal was to shock the audience (or most of it) but still leave them saying, "Of course! Why didn't I see it before?!"
It's me! (Giggles, chuckles and many guffaws.)
How are you? I have some questions about Thailog and....yah...
1.(WHY WONT THE STUPID TAB BUTTON WORK!!!) Uh....anyway, How dose Thailog view Alexander? Dose he consider him a 'brother'?
2. How dose Thailog view his own creation? I'm asking this because of the Justice Leauge clone Galatea. She thought hse had to prove her 'own existance' to everyone by destroying super girl. Dose Thailog feel the same way about Goliath and Xanatose?
1. It will be interesting to see.
2. I think Thailog may be over the notion (assuming he ever really subscribed to it and wasn't just play-acting) that he needs to destroy Goliath, Xanatos and Sevarius. We've already seen him working with Anton. And I think, like David, he'd view killing Goliath and David as too wasteful.
I just caught City of Stone on the fantastic Season 2 DVD set, and a good (or so I hope) question occurred to me. Given Macbeth's on again/off again suicidal tendencies, was he masquerading as the Hunter in the hopes that Demona would take one look at him and nail him with a bazooka? Or was he just trying to go for a more satisfying psychological advantage in a hand-to-hand fight?
Definitely the latter, subconsciously the former. Though I think he probably had a clear preference to be the one doing the killing (and dying as a result) as opposed to letting Demona kill her. He'd have settled for either (at that time). But I do think he had a preference.
My name is Christina and I love Gargoyles to death, What I wanted to ask is that are going to do a season 4 because I love this show so much and I want to see more and more episodes. So Im so kindly beging to do another season and continue on. Please let me know I would kindly like to. Here's my e-mail address: firstname.lastname@example.org I thank you so much!!!!!
I don't respond directly to e-mails, I'm afraid. But if you're still hanging around a year after you posted this, I hope by now you know all about the DVDs, the Gathering and the comic series. You want more Gargoyles, those are the places to look!
This isn't a question, but more to a comment to the now season 2, Vol 1 Dvd that has been realised to the public this December. Once again I would like to thank you Mr. Weisman for your continuing efforts to promote Gargoyles along with the comic, which I will be hunting for soon. I dearly hope that Vol 2 of season 2 will come onto dvd, and myself along with my family will be the first to purchase it.
Once more thank you Mr. Weisman for allowing old Gargoyles fans to reconnect with something that we loved.
You're VERY welcome. And thank you for supporting the property.
Have you ever considered a Gargoyle Role-Playing Game? I feel like there are many possibilities involved in this concept... or perhaps is there already one in the works? Because if there is, I was wondering who the publisher/ production company might be. With Fondest Memories 9and monetary support through the purchase of your t.v. show's DVD), Maivillain
I have a vague memory that after the Dallas Gathering, which was attended by Steve Jackson, that Christine Morgan and I had some discussion about this. But I guess nothing ever came of it. I'd be happy to participate in the creation of a Gargoyles RPG, but I don't know enough about that arena to initiate things. And of course, one has to keep in mind that I don't OWN Gargoyles. So whomever wanted to do it, would have to purchase a license from Disney. Not impossible to do, as SLG has proven, but not easy to do as CreatureComics.com learned when we tried to get the comic book license before being teamed with SLG.
Hey Greg, I'm back to make my review of the Season II - Volume I DVD!
I've been waiting to do this since I bought it on the day of release - I'm actually a tad surprise it took so long, as opposed from last year . . .
But getting to the point: Season II, Volume I ROCKED! Several of my favorite episodes are in this DVD, including the City of Stone 4-Parter, the Avalon 3-Parter, and probably my favorite in the entire DVD: The Mirror!
My favorite bonus feature was the episode introductions, and I really wish now that Season I had them as well. They offered more behind the scenes info than I think I expected. I really did love the Gathering of the Cast and Crew: I have only seen Keith David, Johnathan Frakes, Mirina Sirtis and Sally Richardson (and you, of course) in my history of Gargoyles, so it was nice to finally attach some faces to the rest of the cast and crew as well. I loved Jeff Bennet's 3-Voice demo. Absolutely amazing and hilarious at the same time!
I loved the commentary on City of Stone. Out of the two multi-parters we got, I'm happy this one at least got the commentary. The back-story of Demona and Macbeth is perhaps the best memory I have of watching Gargoyles when I was six. Never before (and I think you mentioned this on the commentaries) had I seen the bad guys in a point of view that got me feeling sorry for both of them! The music by Carl Johnson in the Part IV (Where we see Demona in the forest fire) is definitely what I reminisce most in the four-parter. Simply legendary.
By the way, after I had watched the City of Stone four-parter commentaries, I was driven to look up the entire "Macbeth" Family Tree. I finally found the historical version, and with the knowledge of what I knew of Princess Katherine and her dad Prince Malcolm, I think I worked it all out all the way to Luach (I know, I know . . . Lulach. But I'm used to it!) and Canmore!
I don't know if it was you or someone in the Gargoyles team that did it, but I love the fact that the cover says "We Live Again." Simple, but powerful for anyone who remembers the series.
I wish Avalon had a commentary as well, but that is why I appreciate the Introductions so much.
I can't wait for the next DVD. I can't wait to have The World Tour (which I had always called the 'Avalon Odyssey' before I started going online) to my collection. So many stories in so many places . . . I love them all!
Thanks for the series, Greg. From the season premire I was lucky to witness up to today, this show STILL remains my favorite show of all time!
On to Volume II!
You're very welcome.
In House at Disney, we started calling it "The Gargoyle World Tour" as a joke. Like we'd make concert t-shirts with all the stops. (HEY, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA!!)