A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Saterday, June 24, 2006: 2ND DAY OF GATHERING OF THE GARGOYLES
Again, it's me. Not much happened today (there seems to be a pattern in this in my life). I've been wishing I was where you all are. But, instead, I'm here, typing to you. I was thinking about the gathering today and what you guys might be doing. So, I decided to ask you something (since that is kind of the purpose of this website). If you had to convince a person who's never been to a gathering before and you could only name three things to them that happens at the gathering, what would those three things be? What is it that you enjoy the most at gatherings is basically the question here. Since I'm asking about the gathering, I might as well keep asking. About how many people were at the last gathering you attended? (You might not read this for a few years, so answer this to the last gathering you attended, not the one that's going on right now in 2006, unless that was the last one you went to). I keep hearing about radio plays. What exactly is this? I've seen some stuff about it, but I want to know from you what it is and your opinion on it. Did you come up with the concept or did someone else?
I think it is great that so many gargoyles fans are being able to get together and celebrate a great show. I've loved gargoyles for so many years, and it would be great to meet other fanatics like me. Maybe someday... But until then, I've got my sister to nag about this stuff. She's not a hard core fan like me, but she has watched the show since it first came out just like me. We know all the dialogue to each show. In fact, sometimes we put the TV on mute and put the lines in ourselves. Other times we just mess around and make up funny stuff for the soundless characters to say. We get a kick out of that. Another memory that comes to mind is having to explain each confusing show to my sister. She's four years younger than me, so she started watching the show when she was 3 years old. She's in high school now and still I have to explain some of the more confusing shows to her.
Possession is one of my favorites and is one my sister complains of being the most confusing. I always liked the 3 episodes that came before Hunter's Moon. They were: Turf, The Reckoning, and Possession. Their story lines were great. I liked Turf because Elisa has to help Tony Dracon when they really can't stand each other, and she has a different look going on for her (plus you find out what happened to Mase Malone's step son. He went from working out in a gum with the witness protection program to being a hired thug). I liked The Reckoning because Angela and Demona finally meet face to face and know who each other are for the 1st time (that time in Paris doesn't really count). When I was younger, I had been anticipating the meeting between them since I knew that they were mother and daughter. It was a great story to tell about the two of them. Then there is Possession. What can I say, I love to solve puzzles. Who is in who's body? Good question. I love how it was all just a lesson for little Alexander. The kid has potential.
Anyways, I've rambled off a lot of stuff, and I should let you go answer other people's comments and questions. Thank you for your time and I hope your having a great weekend at the 10th annual Gathering of the Gargoyles.
What do I enjoy most? There's a lot I could say, but certain friends would cough loudly and force me to admit that it's the 72-hour non-stop EGO-BOOST!!!! (I mean, really, who am I kidding?)
But there are a lot of specific things I love about the Gathering. You asked for three, so...
1. The Radio Play is always a real blast for me. I like the whole process: auditions, casting, rehearsal and performance. As for what they are, it's not too complicated. I bring a script. Sometimes Gargoyles, sometimes something else (often the something else is some unproduced script). We hold VOICE auditions for the various parts. Casting is usually done by myself, Thom "Lexington" Adcox and Jennifer Anderson. Then we gather for a rehearsal. And then we perform for the con. There are no props, costumes or make-up. We just stand-up and read the lines ... like a radio play. (I didn't come up with the concept of a radio play. I'm guessing radio did that. But I am the guy who came up with the idea of doing it at the Gathering, starting in 1998.)
2. The late night chats. The Blue Mug (though not always Blue) is always a lot of fun, but even informally, it's hard to top the good times of hanging with folk, just talking. Each Gathering is really a family reunion, complete with new additions to the family showing up every year.
3. The talent and intelligence of our fans. Whether it's the radio play, the wonderful Art Room, the Masquerade or just listening to them talk in panels, I'm always blown away by what our fans can do.
4. Also eating. I love eating.
Friday, June 23, 2006: 1ST DAY OF GATHERING OF THE GARGOYLES:
Again, if you don't remember my last post from yesterday (which is likely, there are a lot of people who like to talk to you) I was not able to go to the Gathering of the Gargoyles this year. I'm posting what is happening to a person who can't get to the gathering. Besides spontanious cries of wanting to be at the gathering and break downs every now and then, things are pretty much normal. My sister gets a kick every time she hears my little outbreaks.
Today there was no school, so I stayed home and pondered with my sister about the gathering and past experiences we've had due to gargoyles. I reminded her about the gargoyles games we used to play and we both laughed for a long time as we reminisced. We were bored so we looked through some old board games that we might enjoy playing. As we did, I started thinking about how fun it would be to have a gargoyles board game. You know how Monopoly has different versions? There could be a gargoyles monopoly, or the game Life could throw its hat into the ring. I know it is unlikely, but wouldn't it be cool?
While conventions are on my mind, I just wanted to put out there that Pirates of the Carribean 2 is having its premier tomorrow at Disneyland. I thought it was really funny that the premier for that is at the same time as the gathering. What a conincidence, huh? They should've done a joint thing, with pirates and gargoyles at the same time. That would be the best. I know that the gathering doesn't have to do with Disney promoting the Pirates of the Carribean movie, but just imagine with me...
I can only imagine the great time everyone is having right now, getting to the gathering. Okay, I lied, I can't imagine because I've never been to one. The closest thougts that I have to a gathering are the few scenes that were shown on the DVD for the 1st season of gargoyles. I really liked that. It was kind of a bummer to see that there was nothing on the gatherings on the second DVD. Oh well.
Well, we're almost half way through with these journals (at least I am almost through). I only have Saterday and Sunday to record, and maybe Monday if you're lucky (hahaha). It's funny how I don't end up writing about my day, but more about jibberish.
One more thing, I saw the new episode of WITCH tonight and it rocked! You're doing a great job with that, along with all the other talents working on the show. If only those talents could go towards another gargoyles show....
Thank you for your time and patience. I also hope you have a great time at the convention.
There is a gargoyles board game. I've got a copy. Plus there was the Gargoyles Video board game that came with the video release of "The Heroes Awaken".
I've been a longtime Gargoyles fan since it first aired when I was in High School. Being both a comic book geek and a literature geek, I've fondly remembered the show for as long as I can remember. I remember when the episode revealing Owen in Puck (I believe it occured after the World Tour), I was in shock for days and geeking out with my friends about it.
Sadly, as I live in far Eastern Canada (New Brunswick), I won't have a Gathering 2006 report. If I had the money for such a trip, I would absolutely love to attend one of the Gatherings. Maybe someday!
So, a couple of questions:
1) The first is regarding Volume 2 of Season 2. I picked up Vol.1 as soon as it was released and devoured the episodes within days. From your comment about Vol.2, I'm worried if we'll ever see its release. Would it be safe to assume that Volume 2 would be the final set for the series? I remember you listed how, ideally, you'd like to release the sets but I can't remember their set up.
2) An additional question regarding Vol.2. I loved the Gathering feature in the first season collection. Do you think that, should Vol.2 be released, that another Gathering feature (perhaps of 2004 or '06?) could be added?
3) Since "The Journey", the first and only episode you were directly involved with TGC, would it be safe to assume that it may be included in a future DVD collection? The rest of TGC, I understand, would not, but just the one leaves me curious.
Lastly, I'd like to say that I picked up the first issue of the Gargoyles comic and enjoyed it greatly. In many ways, it felt as if I was watching the show all over again. My only complaint, which I'm sure will disappear once the first 2-issue arc is completed, is that it feels a lot like a re-hashing of "The Journey". Did you want to alieviate concerns about whether that episode was canon or not by telling your own version of the story? I'd be curious to hear some comments on that if they haven't already been answered.
Thanks for all the fond memories, Greg. To me, Gargoyles was far too short but clearly has a power all on its own to last longer than any spell an executive could cast upon it.
(Also, if someone could maybe e-mail me either to answer some questions that Greg doesn't necissarily need to answer...or maybe inform me when these questions are answered, that'd be fantastic. My e-mail, done in long hand to avoid spam, is nick underscore piers at hotmail dot com.)
1. I'm not sure I understand your question. I'm still hoping that BVHE will release Volume 2, but frankly I'm not holding my breath. Beyond that, THEY may want to release the Goliath Chronicles, but that's not something that I'm going to fight for.
2. No way to know. But there is a "been there, done that" feeling that even I get, extras-wise.
3. I have no idea. It wouldn't be included in Season Two, Volume Two, as it was part of Season Three. My feeling is that now that the Journey has been adapted into "Nightwatch" and "The Journey", i.e. the first two issues of the new GARGOYLES comic, I don't feel the need to have it out on DVD. But that may just be me.
4. It's not a rehashing, it's quite consciously an adaptation -- though an adaptation that restores scenes that were cut from the televised version, cuts narration that was added to the episode (and not by me), reorders scenes back to the way I originally wrote it and adds some flashback material to help bring new readers up to speed. The main reason to do this was because I felt STRONGLY that I needed to find a good entry point into the universe for new fans and/or old fans who haven't been obsessively watching and rewatching the episodes for ten years. Also, I felt that this was a good story that deserved better treatment, and ALSO I felt that since I would finally be doing MY third season of the series in comic book form, I wanted to start it with the story that began that season. And, finally, yes, I see "The Journey" as canon. Now, it's clear. Canon consists, in my mind at least, of the 65 episodes that make up the first two seasons of the series and the two published issues of the SLG comic book. Other stufff, like Goliath Chronicles (including now "The Journey" as televised), the Marvel comics, the Disney Adventure comics and whatever else might be out there is NOT canon. And any hints or flat out spoilers I've given or revealed in ASK GREG or at Gatherings or wherever is AT BEST, canon-in-training. It reveals my thought process more than final product. So it's not real til it's real.
I have a W.I.T.C.H. question. You've often said the the one-word episode titles on Gargoyles were the ones you came up with. I was wondering if the current "A-B-C" episode naming scheme on W.I.T.C.H. was your idea as well.
It was. Helps keep me amused.
In midst of all the Gathering and comic book excitement, I have a question about WITCH. The second season is just getting started, and I'm enjoying it so far. I appreciate that there aren't any huge jolting differences between seasons one and two, and that leads into my question.
I don't know anything about your predecessor on the first season, or why you were brought in to replace him or her for the second season. I'm curious about how you went about taking over an existing property like this and making it "your own" without alienating those who were involved with or were fans of the first season. And how did your experience with Gargoyles vs. The Goliath Chronicles affect the way you approached this task?
You've experienced this situation from both sides now, and I'm looking forward to (someday) reading your reflections on it.
The first thing is RESPECT. I try to respect the work of those who come before me. The WITCH comics and the previous episodes.
The second thing is MARCHING ORDERS... what do my bosses want me to do. In this case, I was told (in so many words) that the first 26 episodes are canon for the second season. The comics are NOT canon, but there was a definite desire to bring the series closer to (at the very least) the spirit of the comic books and to the stories and characters told there.
The third thing is DETAILED RESEARCH w/lots of NOTE-TAKING... Read all the comics that were available to me at the time (in English). Watch all the episodes. Take loads of notes. Look for hooks in those stories. EMERSION.
The fourth thing is ESSENCE. I try to find the essence of what the series is about, who the characters are, etc. That's what I need to respect the most.
The final thing is WEAVING the tapestry, taking all of the above into account. This is actually the fun part of the job for me. All these characters, all with agendas of their own. All these stories to tell. WITCH season two is over now -- and it doesn't look like there will be a season three -- but when I finished, I easily had enough stories to keep it going for years.
How will the others in the clan react to Lex being gay? Angela and the other boys may be more accepting, but Hudson and Goliath struck me as "old school" in terms of acceptance. (well, not Goliath as much. He is dating a human for christs sake!) Just curous.
You're assuming that for Gargoyles, "Old School" means homophobic. I don't accept that.
In fact "Old School" for humans wasn't homophobic either. Homophobia is a relatively RECENT phenomena, as far as my (very limited) research has revealed.
In a word, the comic is phenomenal.
I should point out that I was in the show's target demographic during its first run (not so much anymore, just graduated college). I was skeptical about how it would work as a comic book, but that all melted away when I bought Gargoyles #1. It was pure joy.
First off, I think that translating "The Journey" as the first several issues works extremely well. For the first time, I feel like we're finally seeing what's going on in your head, without the watchful eye of S&P censoring what we see. We all knew that something like the "monster-loving whore" commen was missing in "The Journey;" you can't really show racism unless you can show the bigotry that goes with it. And Elisa's response is very Elisa-esque.
Finally seeing the Matt/Chavez scene was a treat for fans who could only read it here up until now. And for that matter, I think we all knew that Elisa wore something sexier to bed than that old-woman nightgown.
What looks good in comic form: The Gargoyles escaping from the clock tower. Castaway blowing up his statue (which thankfully doesn't look like Goliath anymore). Sunsets. The recap spread on page 12-13 is gorgeous, and makes me wonder if we'll see something analagous to Keith David's narrative intro in each issue.
I might (and I stress MIGHT) go so far as to suggest after just one issue that the comic format serves Gargoyles better than animation. Of course, there are drawbacks. We lose the magnificent voice work of some of these actors. We lose the Keith David-narrated show opening. We lose the ability to show some of the character's aerial moves in action. But the advantages are huge. Storylines aren't constricted to 22 minute, and S&P isn't compromising the story you're trying to tell. In fact, because it's completely common for a comic franchise to have more than one title in print at once, I feel like series like Timedancer and 2198 were made for this kind of thing.
Anyway, that's just my two cents as a fan. The comic format seems very natural for Gargoyles, which is a relief. Clearly, I'm looking forward to new stories in #3 more than anything else. All in all, thumbs up on the comic.
I'm personally LOVING doing Gargoyles as a comic. I miss the voice work too, but I do feel that our series' voice work was so strong and distinctive, that if I do my job right (writing the dialogue) that you can almost HEAR the voices (and the music) in your head. That's my goal anyway. That and doing radio plays at the Gathering, (hopefully with some of the cast present).
A few years ago, I posted a short ramble on the Illuminati and the "Eye in the Pyramid". Of course, you only got to it a few months ago. However, right after my post, Valaine Fea added that the "E.i.t.P" is called "Annunaki", which means "All-Seeing Eye". Valaine Fea did not post anything else however, and you asked where that information comes from.
I had never heard anyone refer to the symbol as "Annunaki", but I know what the term is (it does not mean "All-Seeing Eye") and in what language. I suspect that someone in the tiny circle of people who know this stuff accidently connected the term to the symbol, since it is indeed what the symbol points to.
Annunaki is a Sumerian term (yes, it's that old). It means "the people of Anu". Again, the actual information on the topic is extensive, with many layers of meaning as well, given it's religious purpose, so I cannot give it all. A simplified (but arguable) interpretation would be "the children of God". Not humans: angels (or something) who walked around on the planet. The Bible mentions them several times, along with many other ancient sources (all of which are presumed by modern historians to be the products of overly-superstitious primitive minds).
The symbol is Egyptian in iconography, not Sumerian (it would have been the "Eye in the Ziggurat"), but there is evidence that it is a European creation (middle ages or later) intended to point back to these origins.
Thanks. This stuff fascinates me.
Hello again. It's been about 2 years since I've asked a question or written a comment on this web site. That doesn't mean I've never been back here though. On the contrary, I come here about every day (around 1:00 in the morning, after all my college work is done). So don't think I've given up looking for my question to be answered.
Anyway, the main reason for me to write this time is that the gathering of the gargoyles is taking place this weekend, and I wanted to put in my input.
Gathering of the Gargoyles is all I've heard about for months. As it draws closer, I get more and more excited. Unfortunatly for me, I can not make it. I have never been to a gathering before and it is driving me crazy! I'd love to go, but there's the whole problem of me not knowing how to get anywhere outside of my home (I am directionally challenged) as my family can vouge for. I also can't get anyone to go with me. I think if I did have someone to go with, it would make the whole traveling thing a lot easier. But enough of my blabbering on not getting to go. This is supposed to be a journal of what is going on while the gathering is in progress.
In case you're wondering why the heck I'm writing a journal when I am not going to be at the gathering, well wonder no more. I read another journal some months ago, and it was about what that person did while the gathering was happening 'cause they couldn't go either. You said in response that you liked that idea and that you wanted more journals on people who are not attending the gathering, so here it goes.
Thursday, June 22, 2006: THE DAY BEFORE THE GATHERING OF THE GARGOYLES
Didn't do much. Just had a summer class at a local college. Isn't that fun? Class instead of going to the gathering. It's okay. Only english. It's the best subject there is. I did a lot of day dreaming driving to and from class. It's not good to look up and realize you've spaced out on 20 minutes of driving. I've been thinking of ways I could get to the gathering. There's always the possibility of driving, but that's when I remember I have no idea how to get there. It's about 8 hours away and I could get really lost in only a few minutes, let alone 8 hours. My stomach is in knots over this though. I hear next year the gathering is going to be in Tenessee and there's no way I can get there by driving. I'd have to fly. Coming online tonight, I've just read your comments on the gathering starting tomorrow and I'm all psyched again. All these new people that will show up, and not even people from gargoyles. Didn't you say WITCH people will be there also? That show's great too. When I heard you were going to be working on the show, it was automatically put on my TIVO list. Ahh... to be at the gathering... I've been a fan of gargoyles since I was seven when it came out. My sister and I played gargoyles ALL the time. It was the number one game in our house. We made up clans and figured out how we'd all stand and pose for when the sun would come up. My sister's favorite line would be to argue with me and before I could argue back she would 'turn to stone'. Then my quick come back would be "what are you doing? It's not sunrise yet!" I'm laughing at this as I remember. Anyways, after I'm done writing this, I'll probably crawl into bed, cause it is about 1:30 am and sleep is important to me (sometimes). I'll have another post for tomorrow and how things are looking here from a non-gathering perspective of the weekend.
Oh, and before I sign off, I just wanted to say that I've already bought my copy of the comic book gargoyles on Amazon.com. I can't wait for it to come in the mail. I really hope that the comic continues on, and hopefully, more of your spin offs will be introduced in some way (whether it be the comics, or comics of their own). Ultimatly, the greatest hope is for gargoyles to come back to the television. Disney lost something great, and they just don't know it yet.
Thanx for your time, consideration, and your talent for a great show.
Thanks for your attention...
I hope you do make the effort to attend a Gathering one of these days. I'm sure we can find someone to send you very explicit directions...
I was looking at the 6-page preview for the comic on SLG's web site (I would be looking at the comic itself but no place in my entire state sells SLG products), and I was wondering what happened to Hudson's coloring? Why is his skin green on what I'm seeing? It's not even a brownish-greenish color. He's almost the same color as Lex! Was this some mistake on the colorist's part or something? I hope it gets fixed.
I'm color blind.
I picked up the comic today at my local shop. I couldn't find it for the life of me, but luckily my boyfriend was able to spot it. First comic book I've bought in the last 14 years! (I'm usually a manga woman)
The story was largely a word-for-word repeat of "The Journey". While it would have been nice to have some new material, I understand perfectly why it started there and didn't really mind the re-cap.
The cover art was really nice; it was odd but cute how Angela's outfit looked like Demona's. Nice thick cover too.
The inside art I had a lot of problems with. There were some decent panels, but it was really inconsistent and a lot of it looked just plain bad. In some spots it seemed as if the artist really hadn't taken the time to finish the art properly. I don't have a problem with the characters being restyled, this is a different meaning, but there's good restyling and bad restyling. I can't really say any character was restyled well.
Major issues with the art:
1. Many of the characters were stripped of what made them look dynamic. I would point out Castaway and Vinnie in particular. Xanatos looked like he had one too many in every frame he was in.
2. Goliath looked odd in many frames and the black outline of the shadows on his face and body looked terrible.
3. Elisa was very inconsistent and a few bad panels in particular are the one when Goliath first turns to stone. (It looks like the artist didn't even try in that one, I probably could have drawn it better and I'm not particularly high on the drawing talent scale) and the first panel of her in her dress (In which she disturbingly sports Pamela Anderson breasts and Lara Flynn Boyle arms *shudder*)
4. Matt, especially when he's with Capt. Chavez. What the heck happened to his face?! Matt is a favourite character for me too...
5. Lots of scruffy unneeded lines and hand and leg problems.
6. Brooklyn with wings in his armpits?! C'mon!
So, will I buy the next issue? Sure I will! (cross fingers art will improve) The problem is I'm not going to be able to convince anyone I know, previous knowledge of Gargoyles or not, to purchase something with such bad art. In fact, I was at the comic shop with friends, later at one friend's house we reviewed what we had purchased. Those who flipped through my Gargoyles comic (Most were at least moderate fans of the show) were interested in the story, but were pretty turned off by the artwork. No one in the group declared they wanted a copy of their own.
I really hope the comics continue, but unless the artwork improves, I think it will be hard to entice anyone beyond the diehards to buy.
Good luck to you, and thanks for the comic. I may gripe a lot about the art but I really would like to see you able to write more Gargoyles stories.
I'll just comment on 6, pointing out that we did that in the series too on occasion . Future Tense comes to mind.
Hello Greg, This is my first question here. I have been combing the archives and have been unable to find an answer.
My question refers to David Xanatos's Parents.
WE know Petros Xanatos is a "poor fisherman" from Maine. WE know that he has not approved of David in the past, and even at the end of "The Gathering Part 2" he does not appear to approve of him, but he does see promise in him for the way he defends Alexander.
I was wondering:
1) Was there a particular event which caused a rift between David Xanatos and his father Petros?
2) if there was, would you please give a brief overview of the event?
3) Is David Xanatos's Mother Officially Dead?
4) If she is, what was her name and how old was David Xanatos when she passed?
5) If she isnt dead, what is her name? And why havent we seen or heard of her?
6) In your opinion, what would Mrs. Petros Xanatos think of David Xanatos? His Corporation? His "empire"? His wife?
7) What are David Xanatos's feelings towards his Father, Petros?
Thank you Greg, SOme of these will probably be answered when you get to this (in 2008?). I appologize for writing in a shopping list format, but I thought it might be easier for you. Maybe I am the only one interested in this, but I would love to know More about Xanatos's backstory, hence the above questions. Thanks for Gargoyles, thanks for reading, and thanks for keeping in fun!
PS - The DVDs are great, Im getting the first issue of the comic (Nightwatch) tommorrow!
Let me begin by saying that I don't completely agree with your initial assessment of their relationship in the Gathering.
1. I think that David was always just outside of Petros' understanding.
2. I don't see it that way.
4. I'm not revealing those details now.
5. She's dead.
6. I'm not revealing that now.
7. David loves and respects his father for who he is. He hopes his father can love and respect him for who HE is.
Wow, last time I posted I think it was the Season II: Volume I DVD!! Anyways, I'm afraid I couldn't make it to the Gathering in 2006 . . . but hopefully, by the time you read this, I will have made to to Gatherings 2007 & 2008!!
Anyways, I got Issue 1 of Gargoyles the Comic yesterday (which was also my brother's B-Day, actually!), and boy does it feel good to personally own some new Gargoyles merchandise!! I ran into my local comic book store and immediately saw it on the NEW RELEASES shelf. Boy, that made me feel good!! Spent my 3.50 within five minutes, and I was reading the thing on my way home . . .
Even though "Nightwatch" was merely Part I of "The Journey," I still enjoyed reading every part of it. It was definitely written for newcomers as well as old fans, particularly those two pages of Goliath's monologue to Elisa. Well written indeed!
I loved reading Vinnie's last name (Grigori) and I'm surprised I couldn't remember Castaway calling him that in "The Journey." Anywho, I can't wait till August and October (next release dates, right?) where I hope to see more of Castaway's transformation from Jon Canmore -- that always intrigued me (In the sense how the "Hunter" line continues to exist no matter what).
I've heard some people were disgruntled by the artwork, but I particularly enjoyed it. It wasn't just like Gargoyles of 94-97, but hey it wasn't animated either! It was great, I enjoyed it, and I hope to see more in the future!!
PS - If I had known you visited the AniZona 3 this year, I SO would have visited!!
G2007 & G2008 haven't happened yet. Look how nearly caught up I am!!!!!
Well, we got issue #2 out in December. Look for #3 in February, and #4 in April.
You've said a few times that gargoyles probably don't have hollow bones, on the basis of their strength.. I just wanted to point out that all bones are hollow. Ours are full of marrow, birds' have marrow and also a big chamber for air. Depending where the bone is, it might have blood vessels in it too. I don't think you'd have to sacrifice strength to say gargoyles had hollow bones if you wanted to (or even bones full of lighter-than-air gas. Hey that's a good idea!) I think they're even starting to say some of the strongest dinosaurs had hollow bones too, but don't quote me on that.
Can't wait til the comic's out! I'm buying each one as they come out on Amazon :)
Well, I was I believe specifically responding to someone comparing Garg bones with bird bones (which, as I understand it, are fairly fragile). I know about marrow, etc.
Reading the archives it's apparent you believe Sevarius' theory that gargoyles absorb sunlight during the day while in stone form, reducing their need to eat like the huge beasts they are. I've wanted to point something out for years, but now you have to be really quick about asking questions before Ask Greg closes again.
The thing is.. unless I'm mistaken, Sevarius came into that theory because:
A. he had mutates to make, and gave them bat wings they needed to flap
B. he realized he couldn't keep 6-foot furries in the air on bat wings without them eating him out of house and home, and
C. he figured the answer was in how the real gargoyles did it.
When I heard him explain how he thought gargoyles got the energy to fly, I didn't believe it for a second. obviously he didn't do his homework, because gargoyles DON'T FLY, they don't -flap- at all, they glide effortlessly (more or less) on air currents, and that doesn't require flapping of wing muscles. So.. the sun-absorbing-stone thing isn't necessary (at least for the reason Sevarius presented. Of course now I've read that the reason you had gargoyles glide was so they'd require flying vehicles for kenner to build).
I realize that episode was kind of frought with bad science (electric eels produce electricity, so their genes mean you don't need as much food energy? ... and then whatever extra energy that presents they discharge as lightning bolts anyway?), and that it doesn't matter because it's just an animated drama and you wanted to give the mutates a cool weapon, but.. I dunno, I've been hearing you base your (mostly wonderful) theories on the assumption that sevarius was right, when he got such a major detail wrong in developing it.. it kind of bothers me.. I mean, if gargoyle babies need to absorb sunlight too, their parents should probably stop putting them in caves and buildings... maybe I'm just naturally distrustful of scientists. I mean, when sevarius said "unfortunately nothing like this exists in the animal kingdom so I can't go to the gene store and get some" my first thought was "that's because you pulled that answer out of your ass, gargoyles are more well-thought-out than that". I generally wonder when scientists put out an unprovable theory like that, how plausible they think it is that a person could come up with the correct answer to a mystery like that with limited evidence. No matter what they come up with, it's surely not very likely to be correct!
Wow, when did this comment turn into a ramble? Sorry, heh. Anyway, I trust what you say more than what Anton Sevarius says, and in my opinion you don't have to agree with him just because he's a scientist and you're not. the theories you come up with to explain gargoyle science don't seem to mesh very well with Sevarius, so... perhaps we ought to keep in mind that the gargoyles aren't aware of any of them anyway. Keep up the good work!
Look, Sevarius was intentionally leaving out one major source of information because Derek was his audience. He'd been studying Gargoyle DNA to create Thailog. I'm not endorsing Sevarius' theory because he said it out loud in a room with a "civilian". I'm endorsing aspects of it because the absorbtion of THERMAL energy (not solar energy specifically) through their organic stone makes sense to me. Elegant sense -- at least in my mind.
Another thought about Bonkers...
At one point here, you said
By the way, the Miranda/ Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?)
Yes, that seems extremely strange, given some of the more salient aspects of the Elisa/Goliath relationship. Could you elaborate on what you meant? Are you just talking about pairing up a human female lead with a non-human male lead in crime-fighting stories?
Perhaps one day I'll have a bona-fide Gargoyles question to ask here.
Until then, JJ signing off.
P.S. Here's hoping the Gargoyles comics are thriving by the time you read this.
I'm hoping they're thriving too. It's hard for me to tell.
Anyway, yes, that's all I meant. A human female cop fighting crime with an inhuman (but very human) male "partner".
Nothing romantic going on between Bonkers and Miranda. Bonkers only has eyes for Fawn.
When you rambled about "The Gathering, Part I", you mentioned a scene that reminded you of the famous "Tears" scene from Blade Runner.
This reminded me of Bonkers, of all things. In particular, I thought of an episode entitled "Do Toons Dream of Animated Sheep?" or something to that effect, obviously a play on Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, the novel Blade Runner was loosely based upon,
My question is: Was someone thinking of Blade Runner during the creation and/or production of Bonkers? I realize that any link between Bonkers and Blade Runner would be tenuous at best.
However, if I recall correctly, many humans in Bonkers felt uncomfortable actually being around 'toons. Maybe the tenuous link I mentioned is the notion that humans would be afraid of powerful non-humans; in Bonkers' case, toons that can survive terrible explosions and the like. Also, from some of the Piquel episodes, it seems that humans created toons (remembr Piquel's daughter and the magic pencil?). Then, could there also be a "Frankenstein" angle in here, which could add meat to the aforementioned tenuous link?
Still, no-one was "retiring" toons, unless you count Who Framed Roger Rabbit? as part of the Bonkers universe, and think about Judge Doom....
I'm quite sure that no one would have named a Bonker's episode "Do Toons Dream of Animated Sheep?" and NOT be aware of both the movie Blade Runner and the Dick story it was based on.
I thought the DVD was coming out next year! What a pleasure to have found it in the DVD aisle. I loved the extras, get more in the next volume if you can.
Now the question came from something I noticed on the DVD. During the episode Vows, around when Goliath and the two Demonas are using, Demona kicks Goliath and blood comes out of his mouth as he reels back from the hit. I was quite shocked when I saw this, having read about the three moments in the series where you used blood.
Was this blood in there on purpose? Was it put in by the animation staff and S&P just missed it?
I honestly cannot remember. Sorry. It's just been so long...
I've never asked a question here before, probably because I didn't have the patience to wait, but I just wrote this analysis of Demona and Macbeth's link for the GFW website, and I wanted to see what you thought of it. Am I on the right track?
Curses and Prophecies, Fate and Freewill
(Warning: This essay contains minor spoilers for Harry Potter books five and six. It's mostly about Gargoyles, so if you don't read HP you'll still understand this, but if you plan to read them soon, you may wish to stop reading now.)
Like most people reading this, Gargoyles had a major impact on my life. For me, the best it ever got was City of Stone. In fact, I would say that CoS was one of the highlights of my childhood. I still distinctly remember, when I was twelve years old, reaching the end of Part Three, seeing Demona advancing on stone Elisa with a mace, and then the words "To be Concluded." "You're telling me I have to wait a whole day to see what happens? I'm supposed to go to school? Screw that, I want to know how Elisa survives!" I've thought long and hard about CoS, and the key to it is the relationship between Demona and Macbeth. In fact, I think the Weird Sisters' spellcasting is, from a classical sense, the climax of the entire story. On the surface, the spell seems simple enough: Demona and Macbeth are linked so they feel each others' pain, and they will live forever. If someone were to kill one of them, (s)he would die and then quickly come back to life. If one of them were to kill the other, though, then they would both die. As I say, it seems simple. After reading Greg Weisman's numerous responses on the subject, I began to think about whether there was more to it than meets the eye, and it slowly dawned on me that it was much more subtle, deep, and brilliant than I'd ever considered.
For years, Greg has received questions like "What would happen if Macbeth got his head cut off? Would it reattach itself? Would it grow back immediately?" He has always answered something like, "Well, that hasn't happened, has it?" At first glance, that seems like just a weak cop out, with Greg trying to avoid a question he has no good answer to. In fact, he seemed to get pretty flustered at the way people kept projecting Highlander concepts onto Macbeth, which was probably inevitable given that they're both immortal Scottish nobles. Unlike Highlander, though, there are no explicitly stated rules as to how immortality works; all we have to go on are the Weird Sisters' words, and they clearly are not the most trustworthy or forthcoming of people. Remember that Luna is supposedly a representative of fate, and then think about the fact that the spell doesn't really talk about "what if this or that happened," but rather "what will happen." The final words of Luna to Macbeth in the past were that "you both shall live, eternally linked, sharing each other's pain and anguish, with no release until one destroys the other. Only then shall both finally perish together." From that, it's clear that the Sisters are not interested in playing hypotheticals about all the different ways things could happen: they simply pronounced what will happen. Rather than the spell being simply a safeguard against their dying, it could instead be thought of as a prophecy declaring quite simply what will happen to them in the future.
It turns out that at no point in the entire series do we see anything happen to either Demona or Macbeth that would be sure to kill them. In fact, there are only two times it really seems likely that one of them could die. The first is when Macbeth was stabbed in the back by Canmore- painful, to be sure, but not necessarily lethal. Certainly there are those who have survived a poorly aimed stab. The second is when Elisa shot Demona with Macbeth's electric gun. That one seems even less likely, as about three gargoyles get shot with one of those things in any given Macbeth episode. One might make a case that the roller coaster collapse in The Reckoning was potentially lethal, but that falls under the old comicbook rule of "if you don't see the body, the guy's not dead," and the fact that we know Thailog survived as well makes it clear that magic was not necessary to live through that incident. So, we have established that we have never seen anything unquestionably fatal befall Demona or Macbeth. Furthermore, Greg has told us that no such thing has ever happened. Knowing that, it follows that it is meaningless to ask what if such a thing were to happen- it hasn't! Such speculation is what is known logically as a vacuous proof: If A occurs, then B occurs, given that A is an impossible event. Consider the statement "All pink elephants can fly," or, more precisely, "If A is a pink elephant, then A can fly." This statement is absolutely true, since every pink elephant in the world can fly- there are none, so anything you can say about them is true. A simpler way of thinking about it, though less rigorous, is that the statement "all pink elephants can fly" could never be disproved, since to do so one would have to find a pink elephant that could not fly, which can never be done. It is equally true that every pink elephant cannot fly. What this means, then, is there's no point asking "what if Demona or Macbeth were beheaded" if it cannot happen- it's true that if Macbeth were beheaded, he'd die, and it's true that if he were beheaded, he would be revived, and it's true that if he were beheaded, they'd both die, etc. All of those statements are true, because they are all based on an impossible hypothetical.
So let us then accept that neither of them has ever been beheaded. That still doesn't prove that neither of them could ever be beheaded, in which case it would still be relevant to ask what would happen. To answer that, it's worth thinking of the Weird Sisters' pronouncement as a prophecy rather than a spell. Suppose we think of the Macbeth/Demona connection in these terms: The spell allows them long life and they share each others' pain. Since they share pain, if one of them were killed, then the other would die too. Then we see that what Luna meant by saying that they would live on until one destroys the other is not that they are somehow magically protected from injury, but simply that she was predicting what would happen, as an avatar of fate. Such a prophecy brings Harry Potter to mind. When Harry was an infant, a prophecy was made which roughly stated that either he would kill Voldemort or Voldemort would kill him. That prophecy was overheard and found its way back to Voldemort, who immediately acted on it by attempting to kill Harry and fulfill it in a way favorable to him. In so doing, he nearly destroyed himself and gave Harry powers that would enable him to finish Voldemort once and for all. Moreover, he gave Harry a desire to end Voldemort. Harry lost his parents and knew first hand the sort of pain Voldemort inflicted on others, and so he would not rest until Voldemort was finished. On the other hand, Voldemort believed in the prophecy, and thus saw Harry as the greatest danger to him, so he would not rest until Harry was dead. So the result was that the two enemies were both determined to kill each other. As such, it was inevitable that one of them would eventually succeed, and the prophecy would be proven true. However, it was not true because of some incomprehensible hand of fate hovering over them, but rather it was based on simple extrapolations from the subjects' characters, and the fact that they knew about the prophecy (fittingly enough, Rowling has acknowledged Shakespeare's Macbeth as an inspiration for the prophecy).
The same can apply to Demona and Macbeth. At the time of the spell's casting, they were already great warriors, and with unlimited time to practice, they would become even greater. So it is highly unlikely that anyone else would kill them. Yet based on the events of their falling out, an intense hatred blossomed between them, one that would keep them hunting each other and make it inevitable that one would eventually kill the other. And since Macbeth heard the Weird Sisters' pronouncement, he believed that he could not die without killing Demona. It never would have even occurred to him to jump off a tall building and see what happened, because he believed that it would fail. Thus, the prophecy has the added bonus of controlling any possible suicidal tendencies Demona or Macbeth might develop by telling them it's impossible to kill themselves, since while Luna's side of their personality may simply be prophesying, Selene's needs them to survive for their future plans. Plus, even if Macbeth thought it would work, he probably would still feel the need to settle the score with Demona first. With all of that in mind, it is not hard for the avatar of fate to predict that one of them will end up killing the other, and the fact that she makes the prediction helps it to occur.
The question then is this: Is there a difference between saying something cannot happen and saying it will not happen? Suppose a man plans to stay home one day. Can we then say that it is impossible that he will get in his car and drive to another state that day? Let's say it's early in the morning, so he's got plenty of time. He's got a full tank of gas. He's not in Alaska or Hawaii, so there are connecting states he could go to. However, he has no desire at all to do so. Without that desire, it simply will not happen. We can then say that it is impossible. Now the obvious objection is that one never knows for sure what might happen, and if an emergency came up, he might have to leave the state that very day. For that reason, we distinguish between what can happen and what will happen- something can happen if it would happen provided the will to do it existed. If we knew for sure that the man would choose not to leave that day, it would then be fair to say that it was impossible for him to leave. Likewise, if we know with certainty that Demona and Macbeth will not die until one destroys the other, then we can say that it is impossible for anything else to happen.
This theory may seems very complicated at first, but if you take the time to think about it, it makes more sense than most other explanations out there. Rather than rely on vague magic powers and convoluted rules of "what if Demona were smashed in the day?" this theory eliminates all of the guesswork and gives an answer without the ambiguity; one that ultimately is simple and inevitable, yet firmly in the hands of the players. By thinking of Weird Sisters' spell as a prophecy, we can help resolve the fate vs. free will argument. Luna is an embodiment of fate, and so she is able to make predictions in the future, yet they are based simply on reading the characters of the subjects. While the prophecy that Demona and Macbeth will eventually die when one kills the other is a pronouncement of fate, it is only made true because of Demona's lack of trust and irresponsibility and Macbeth's lust for vengeance. The same could be said of the prophecy that Macbeth, Lulach, and Canmore would all become king- it wasn't hard to see that Duncan's paranoia would lead to him moving against Macbeth, a confrontation which would ultimately lead to Macbeth's ascension.
But what if you paint an elephant pink? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Otherwise I DO think you're on the right track.
We all know that Golaith isn't stupid. But he is a bit naive (Sp?). So, after he awoke in 1994, we know he frequented the library to read. Now, I know he read stories, but did he study? We saw him reading up on wearwolves (Eye of the beholder), but did he read up on the middle ages? Did he study American (and even world) history?
When Goliath an Co. navigated the globe, Goliath seemed to not know much about each place they visitied, and Elisa knew more (or so it seemed to me, at least).
My question is really this: How much did Goliath study up on the world? Did he read history books, and the like?
Was he like Brooklyn and the trio who wanted to learn as much as they could, or did he take the new world in slowly?
P.S. Love your episode mini rambles on the DVD.
I'd say he read a lot -- when he had time. But there wasn't always a lot of time and there is SO MUCH TO KNOW!
ok have u written any fanfics?(cause im a bit confused in the matter) and if so what are the titles of them and were can i find them?(i have never really found a fanfic i hear people talk about) r u planing to use any fanfics u wrote 4 episodes in future gargoyles seasons(if that ever happens. hopefuly it will) or will u consiter ever useing fanfics from other fans (if u think it will work well in the series that is)?
I guess I have written a couple of fanfics...
You can find one here: http://www.angelfire.com/rings/katsaris/brothers.htm
And the other here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=497
These are both Dark Ages pieces, and I'd incorporate them if and when the time came. Maybe in the comic book. Or rather definitely in the comic book eventually, given enough issues.
(Cough, Cough HACK!!!)
(Sniff) Oh, my head.....I know that I said I was going to do a HUGE ramble on my favorite episodes, but (cough) gosh darn it, I got pneumonia and have been in and out of the ER lately. :( I sad.
So, since this is the last day in Jan. and your closing down the asking part of the site, I decided to post one...last.....post for now. (Cough)
Greg: "OH, THANK GOD!!!"
Have you ever been to the Utah Shakespearean Festival Greg? Its very good, heck it's a Tony Award-Winning program! They do tones of great shows, some of them even out doors on their....well out door stage. This year, they are doing:
The Merry Wives of Windsor
Antony and Cleopatra
From June 22 to September 22 this year! (Plus more but Im not typing it...im tired.)
For more info on the Festival: please go to www.bard.com for tons of info and stuff!!! Its COOL!!! I go almost every year. (its a little easier for me because I live in Utah, and I LOVE da mountains!! Born and raised here baby!!)
I have a website that you might like, its www.lost-civilizations.net. Its got info on the Easter Island heads, Atlantis and much more! Since you like that sort of stuff, Im sure you'll like it.
Well, good by America and all the ships at sea. (Mwah-ha-ha.....COUGH, COUGH, COUGH!!!)
I've had pneumonia myself. I'm hoping you're fine by now. But I do sympathise. It sucks.
I have twice been to the Utah Festival. Once with my wife. Once with my brother. Had a great time both times. Would love to go again, but haven't been able to manage it.
TOP 40 CHARACTER LIST:
Once AGAIN, I'm wasting my semi-valuable time (and hopefully yours) to bring you the FINAL update in my attempt to catalogue the most significant characters in the BUFFYVERSE. Previous CUMULATIVE updates covered the first, second and third years of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. After that, the task became more complicated as Buffy's fourth season aired simultaneously (day and date, literally) with the first season of Angel. So the Year Four update included Buffy S4 & Angel S1. Year Five added in Buffy S5 & Angel S2. Year Six, Buffy S6 & Angel S3. Year Seven brought in Buffy's final season S7 & Angel S4. And now, at last, the final season of Angel, S5, which is also (unfortunately) the final season of the televised Buffyverse.
As you may recall, I've tried to inform this subjective task with an objective formula. Still, I won't deny that subjectives have played a role. It's hard not to take extra notice of a character, whom you know is going to be important later. And numerical ties were broken based entirely on subjective criteria.
The idea behind a cumulative tally is to mimic the original experience of following the Buffyverse. It's a horse race. Some of the winners and losers are decidedly predictable. Others are a bit surprising - surprising enough that it's become absolutely clear that my system is flawed. I've since dreamed up a new system, but it's too late to implement it. Someday, LONG after I've finished this first survey (but ONLY if I prove truly insane), I might just start over and see what the results are with OBJECTIVE SYSTEM 2.0. But for now - assuming you haven't nodded off - you're stuck with System One.
I have a list of ALL the characters that have appeared in both series up to this point. It's so long (including everything from leads to ridiculously minor characters) that I haven't even bothered to count how many there are. But my list of MOST significant tops out at 273 characters.
But I think listing the top 40 is both pleasantly traditional… and plenty. Or largely. I just want to note a few characters introduced (or revisited) in this set of episodes, who will never make the top 40, but whom I believe are memorable enough to merit honorable mention.
#272, 273 - Zach & Trish. The wife and son that Lindsey (and later Gunn) lived with while under a spell in a Wolfram & Hart prison Hell Dimension.
#261 - Blue Fairy. She only appeared in Angel's hallucination, but, hey, Blue Fairy makes Spike a real boy. Gotta love it.
#258 - The Immortal. Buffy's new (never truly seen) boyfriend in Rome. Gotta say, I HATE THE GUY easily as much as Angel and Spike do. That's impressive for a guy I never met.
#222 - Initiative Founder - In the WWII episode, the Initiative is ret-conned in… nicely.
#221 - Hamburger Loa. The fast food mascot CGI statue that Wesley consulted in a previous season that totally steered him the wrong way about Angel and the baby Connor makes a last flashback appearance here, which raises his significance enough to make the list. BUT… he represents a flaw, I think. The Loa seems to have lied to Wes in hindsight. WHY? Was he working for Jasmine?
#220 - Ilona Costa-Bianchi. Head of the Roman branch of W&H.
#214 - Matthias Bavane, the Reaper. The ghost haunting W&H, keeping it evil.
#210 - Rutherford Sirk. Wesley's last season introductory guide to W&H. This year he took Wesley's place for an episode (while Wesley was recovering from NOT killing his father) - but Sirk was secretly working for Lindsey.
#207 - Lawson - The only vampire that Angel ever sired AFTER he got his soul back. The guy had a bit of soul, and it tormented him. A neat idea.
#188 - Lawyer #1. Recurring comic relief Wolfram&Hart lawyer.
#178 - Leader of the Fell Brethren. Funny, evil demon cult leader and member of the Circle of the Black Thorn (was that the name?), who really was gaga over this baby he had purchased.
#173 - The Wrath. The demon/executioner that ripped Lindsey and later Gunn's heart out daily.
#161 - Numero Cinco. Retired luchador, bitter ex-hero and mailboy.
#160 - The Roger Wyndom-Price Robot. Wesley's dad, only not. Not sure why they didn't just make it Wes' dad.
#159 - Izzirial, or Izzy for short. Clichéd looking devil and member of the Circle. Also played racket ball with Angel.
#154 - Peepee Demon. Demon servant that Angel poisoned to kill Archduke Sebasis (because Sebasis fed off the servant's blood).
#138 - Senator Helen Brucker. Demon posing as a Senator with Vampire campaign workers. Member of the Circle. Just wish it had been someone (ANYONE) we had met before on Buffy or Angel.
#130 - Drogen the Keeper. The Batttlebrand. Angel's mystically honest buddy and sacrifical lamb. The friend he kills to get into the Circle.
#97 - Archduke Sebasis. Another nasty member of the Circle. The shame of Angel's ending with little warning for the creative staff - and the only real disappointment for me (beyond the fact that I'd be Whedon TV free without the series) - was that the Circle was made up of villains who were either largely unestablished or shoe-horned in at the last minute. Sebasis at least spanned the season, but I do wish they had culled the eleven (combined) years of Buffy and Angel to find more significant and memorable baddies to be part of the Circle. Of course, all the BIG BADS were dead, and most of the little bads too. But what about, say, D'Hoffryn? Hell, I'd have settled for Dracula even.
#95 - Nina Ashe. Angel's werewolf girlfriend. I liked her. I liked the idea that Angel could love someone without being in love. Take comfort. Sex without that perfect happy Angelus-inducing perfect moment.
#94 - Dr. Sparrow. The guy who made Gunn a lawyer… and kept him a lawyer (and Gilbert & Sullivan expert) at the expense of Fred's life.
#89- Cyvus Vale. Played by the always amazing Dennis Christopher, he was a wizard, who gave Connor his rebooted new life. Also a member of the Circle, who kills Wes before being killed by Illyria.
#57- Marcus Hamilton. After Eve betrays everyone (including W&H) to help Lindsey, Hamilton takes over as the new liason to the Senior Partners. Get's busted by Angel in the end.
#45- Eve. I was almost rooting for Eve to make the Top 40. She was a really fun character. The liason to the Senior Partners for Angel. Lindsey's main squeeze. She even slept with Angel and shrugged it off.
And before we start, a fond Top 40 farewell to Graham Miller (now at 42). Well, not really. I'm glad he fell out of the 40. It's shocking to me he lasted as long as he did.
AND NOW THE TOP 40
Abbreviations for previous rankings…
Y1 - Buffy Season 1.
Y2 - Buffy Season 2.
Y3 - Buffy Season 3.
Y4 - Buffy Season 4/Angel Season 1.
Y5 - Buffy Season 5/Angel Season 2.
Y6 - Buffy Season 6/Angel Season 3.
Y7 - Buffy Season 7/Angel Season 4
NR - Not Ranked that year.
#40 - Glory. Y7: 39. Y6: 34. Y5: 30. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Year Five's big bad drops one more ranking but holds on to the Top 40, something that neither Adam nor the Master managed. (And Jasmine never cracked the Top 40.) It feels like Big Bads deserve to be here. But again, a system skewed toward screen time is gonna favor supporting characters over villains. But I'm still glad Glory hangs on.
#39 - Kennedy. Y7: 38. Y6: NR. Y5: NR. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Kennedy, potential Slayer, eventual Co-Slayer and Willow's new main squeeze - or I should say squeezer - only drops one ranking. Of course, Kennedy is no Tara, but I think that was the point.
#38 - Maggie Walsh. Y7: 37. Y6: 31. Y5: 27. Y4: 18. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Maggie Walsh? Adam doesn't make it, but his creator Maggie hangs on, though she's dropped 1 last slot.
#37 - Illyria. Y7: NR. Y6: NR. Y5: NR. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Illyria (named after a PLACE in TWELFTH NIGHT) enters the countdown at #37 with a bullet in less than half a season. Fred's transformation into what I thought for a second was going to be yet another Big Bad created from the Regular Cast, wound up being one of the most brilliant and affecting moment in eight years of watching the Buffyverse. WOW!!
#36 - Mayor Richard Wilkins III. Y7: 36. Y6: 33. Y5: 29. Y4: 19. Y3: 14. Y2: 40. Y1: NR. The Mayor maintains at 36. Gotta love the Mayor.
#35 - Ben. Y7: 35. Y6: 30. Y5: 26. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Glory's alter ego holds his position. Again, like Maggie being ahead of Adam, there's really something wrong with Ben being ahead of Glory. My system was too much about screen time, not actual character significance or OOMPH.
#34 - Jenny Calendar. Y7: 34. Y6: 29. Y5: 25. Y4: 17. Y3: 13. Y2: 11. Y1: 15. Jenny also holds position. (Not a lot of movement possible in the Top 40 in a final season. Not enough episodes for a new character to pass some of the old faithful.) Says something about Jenny's original significance that a non-regular like her is holding on for so long. And of course she was pretty much the first character we ever saw as the First, way back in Y3.
#33 - The First. Y7: 32. Y6: 143. Y5: 120. Y4: 85. Y3: 52. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. The original evil drops one ranking. I was never satisfied with the First, especially in the Season Finale, but I can't deny that he/she/it belongs in the Top 40.
#32 - Warren Meers. Y7: 31. Y6: 36. Y5: 82. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Warren, the most evil of the nerves, also falls one ranking.
#31 - Kate Lockley. Y7: 30. Y6: 27. Y5: 22. Y4: 23. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Angel's cop friend is gone and largely forgotten now… She falls one more ranking.
#30 - Daniel Holtz. Y7: 28. Y6: 25. Y5: NR. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Captain Holtz, Angel's Century spanning arch-nemesis falls 2 rankings. His influence still very much felt.
#29 - Francis Doyle. Y7: 27. Y6: 23. Y5: 20. Y4: 15. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Doyle falls two ranks. He has an important video-taped cameo in Cordelia's final episode. Something pulled right from Season One. It was lovely.
#28 - Principal Robin Wood. Y7: 26. Y6: NR. Y5: NR. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Robin Wood, son of Slayer and Spike-victim, Nikki Wood, falls two rankings. This is a character that I would have LOVED to have seen a spin-off built around. D.B. Woodside is great; Wood has no super-powers, just training. And I would like to know who Robin's dad was and what happened to him. And the fact that a Slayer could survive long enough to have a kid… Loved this idea.
#27 - Lindsey McDonald. Y7: 29. Y6: 26. Y5: 21. Y4: 29. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Lindsey makes an impressive comeback, jumping up two rankings. (Never completely understood why he STILL hates Angel so much.) Has a non-good death, which was very cool.
#26 - Jonathan Levinson. Y7: 25. Y6: 24. Y5: 33. Y4: 24. Y3: 17. Y2: 19. Y1: NR. Jonathan, another dead geek - but a beloved one - drops one ranking.
#25 - Principal Snyder. Y7: 23. Y6: 21. Y5: 18. Y4: 12. Y3: 9. Y2: 10. Y1: 12. Snyder falls two more rank, but holds on. Clichés, even fun ones, rule.
#24 - Andrew Wells. Y7: 24. Y6: 37. Y5: NR. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Andrew, back with a couple of memorable Scooby Gang-Representing appearances, holds on to the #24 slot.
#23 - Darla. Y7: 21. Y6: 18. Y5: 19. Y4: 28. Y3: 23. Y2: 23. Y1: 11. Darla loses two rankings w/only a brief flashback appearance in this season. Love Darla.
#22 - Drusilla. Y7: 22. Y6: 19. Y5: 16. Y4: 16. Y3: 11. Y2: 8. Dru has a couple nice flashbacks and once again leapfrogs over Darla simply by maintaining her #22 ranking,.
#21 - Lilah Morgan. Y7: 20. Y6: 22. Y5: 31. Y4: 31. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Geez, you're dead for a year, and you drop out of the Top 20. Lilah falls one position.
#20 - Harmony Kendall. Y7: 33. Y6: 28. Y5: 23. Y4: 25. Y3: 20. Y2: 26. Y1: 18. Harmony, who becomes a regular (finally) halfway through the season, jumps up ELEVEN ranks to crack the Top 20 for the first time since Season Three of Buffy. Always nice to see a character who stayed in the hunt for ALL eight years of the Buffyverse.
#19 - Faith. Y7: 19. Y6: 20. Y5: 17. Y4: 13. Y3: 10. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Faith maintains her position.
#18 - Connor. Y7: 18. Y6: 41. Y5: NR. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. So does Connor, who is SO much more fun to hang with this season in two great appearances.
#17 - Riley Finn. Y7: 17. Y6: 15. Y5: 12. Y4: 11. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Riley maintains.
#16 - Tara Maclay. Y7: 16. Y6: 13. Y5: 15. Y4: 20. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Tara maintains.
#15 - Joyce Summers. Y7: 14. Y6: 14. Y5: 11. Y4: 9. Y3: 8. Y2: 7. Y1: 7. Joyce falls one ranking to her lowest slot ever.
#14 - Daniel "Oz" Osbourne. Y7: 13. Y6: 12. Y5: 9. Y4: 7. Y3: 7. Y2: 12. Y1: NR. Oz falls one more ranking to his lowest point yet.
#13 - Lorne. Y7: 15. Y6: 17. Y5: 24. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Lorne jumps another couple rankings in a brutal season for his character… probably the guy (next to Fred, who dies and becomes someone else) who goes through the biggest emotional change from the start of the season to the end.
#12 - Winifred "Fred" Burkle. Y7: 12. Y6: 16. Y5: 50. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Fred holds her position, despite dying. In fact, if she hadn't died and ceded most (but not all) of her screen time to Illyria, she might have past Dawn.
#11 - Dawn Summers. Y7: 11. Y6: 11. Y5: 14. Y4: NR. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Dawn plateaus at 11. Just had too much padding to fall, despite zero screen time. Again, Fred's death protected her too.
#10 - Anya Kristina Emanuella Jenkins. Y7: 9. Y6: 9. Y5: 10. Y4: 14. Y3: 22. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Anya drops a slot but stays in the Top 10.
#9 - Charles Gunn. Y7: 10. Y6: 10. Y5: 13. Y4: 37. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. A powerful season arc pulls Gunn up a rung to 9, a personal best.
#8 - Wesley Wyndam-Price. Y7: 8. Y6: 8. Y5: 8. Y4: 10. Y3: 15. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Wesley plateaus at #8. I know it must seem like everyone would plateau this high up, and from this point on they are…
#7 - Spike. Y7: 7. Y6: 7. Y5: 7. Y4: 8. Y3: 12. Y2: 9. Y1: NR. Spike doesn't quite have the juice to pass Giles.
#6 - Rupert Giles. Y7: 6. Y6: 5. Y5: 3. Y4: 3. Y3: 2. Y2: 2. Y1: 2. Giles maintains.
#5 - Willow Rosenberg. Y7: 5. Y6: 5. Y5: 6. Y4: 6. Y3: 4. Y2: 4. Y1: 4. Willow holds her Top 5 slot, but finishes behind both Cordelia and Xander, which surprises me. As she was a Big Bad. And as she really should be equal with Xander, it demonstrates another significant flaw in the system. But at least she's in the Top Five.
#4 - Cordelia Chase. Y7: 4. Y6: 4. Y5: 5. Y4: 4. Y3: 5. Y2: 5. Y1: 5. Cordy maintains. She has one of the best exit episodes EVER though. Frankly, Angel's last season is FULL of great exits.
#3 - Xander Harris. Y7: 3. Y6: 2. Y5: 2. Y4: 2. Y3: 3. Y2: 3. Y1: 3. Xander stays in the Top 3, which is right where he started eight years earlier. Making him - with the exception of the two series' leads, the MOST important character in the Buffyverse.
#2 - Angel. Y7: 2. Y6: 3. Y5: 4. Y4: 5. Y3: 6. Y2: 6. Y1: 6. Angel maintains. Buffy just was too far ahead for him to catch up, which is probably how it should be. Still, a fantastic last season for Angel.
#1 - Buffy Anne Summers. Y7: 1. Y6: 1. Y5: 1. Y4: 1. Y3: 1. Y2: 1. Y1: 1. Duh. It ain't called the Buffyverse for nothin'.
Oh my god! Thank you very much for answering my questions for Max steel I was 12 years old when I wrote that I went on your site again after a long while and now I'm 15 years old I'm still a fan no matter what. I do honestly miss the show.
Thanks you made my day.
One last question: Is there any dvd or something that cuntains every Max steel episode?
Kassey still our biggest fan Chapleau, Ontario Canada.
Hi Kassey. I'm afraid I'm not aware of any Max DVDs. If there were one of the first season, I'd love to have it too.
what's the name of the gargbeast from the avalon clan? think i confused her name with a another character and i'm wanting to be sure. can you tell me, please?-thanks!
Boudicca. I should point out that you waited nearly a year for this answer, and if you had gone to the Station 8 comment room you could have learned the answer in a matter of minutes.