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Clan-Building #5: Bash

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Todd Jensen writes...

This isn't a question, but a comment. One thing that I liked in the two most recent issues of the "Gargoyles" comic book, and in "Eye of the Beholder", was that, when Goliath attends the Halloween parties in those stories, while the other gargoyles present, and Elisa, are wearing costumes at the events, he wasn't (or, rather, he was letting his "gargoyleness" be his costume). I thought that that was particularly appropriate, since while the younger gargoyles wearing costumes worked for me and fitted their characterizations, I think that it would have jarred to have Goliath "dress up" at those events. He has a certain natural dignity and majesty about himself that would have (in my opinion) been compromised had he worn a costume as well. Thanks (to both you and the artists) for leaving him as he was at those events.

Greg responds...

I agree completely.

Response recorded on September 07, 2007

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newbey writes...

Switching to Karine Charlebois's pencil art was quite a change from Nir Paniry's, which I started to get use to. First off about the comic, was that Finnella & Mary in the future (they're suppose to have a part in Timedancer, so ... curious). Seeing Dr. Sato from Deadly Force was refreshing. The art for the first four pages was a little too disney (Thailog was just too cuddly). Out of 666 Illuminators, is there one ranked zero, or a one ONE? Life just gets worse for Brendan, maybe Margot is still mad about the terrorist thing in City of Stone (sorry, didn't mean any suggestions by that). The Gar-costumes were amazing; the boots, the open backs, elbow slots! Angela is certainly relatable to the teen girls, AND SHE IS REALLY EXCITED, IN THIS ISSUE! I've re-read the issue to see if Thailog actually used all 8-blades accordingly. It was nice to see the revelation of Robbins, kinda similar to Season3 episode Dwindling light. Who was L.B.J.? Is Xanatos going to be a gopher for the Illuminati(rumour)? Overall, the clone battle would've been funny as an episode, with all the voice actors talking (Keith & Salli shuving then luving, same with Bill & Brigitte). Delilah is acting like both Demona and Elisa in-sync. Did Elisa and Lex just sit there while Thailog cut a chunck out of them? Hearing Goliath's last grunt had me scared, but the 'I love you...' scene was perfect. Seeing Malibu with Delilah was just another blow to Brooklyn, cause that was a sense of what Brooklyn is suppose to become. Thailog being with the Illuminati was no surprise to me, BUT SHARI!? Why did I just learn her name now!? Hope the comic pulls through issue #11.
P.S. in Gargoyles #3, Angela's hair was brown, just to let you know.

Greg responds...

There are zero members ranked at zero of course. One one. Negative seven Negative sevens, etc.

L.B.J. was Lyndon Baines Johnson... President of the United States. (Man, you really just made me feel old.)

Response recorded on September 07, 2007

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The Imperfect writes...

I've just finished reading my copy of Issue #5, and I simply had to come send a comment. I wanted to say first off that I thought Karine and Stephanie did a fantastic job with the artwork! The artwork felt very true to the show, and more than any other issue so far, I felt like I wasn't just reading a story, I was actually watching it move between the still frames of the comic. Large and small details alike all just seemed to fall perfectly into place. The expressions were great, and the action shots picked the perfect moments and angles to capture. Nothing seemed off. This has been my favorite art issue so far. Excellent work, ladies! I hope to see more of it in the future. (Even if this doesn't get onto the site or into Etched in Stone, would someone please pass on my praise to these two? I'd love to let them know how well they did!)

Also, Greg, thanks so much for new Gargoyle stories! It's great to see all our favorite characters (by which I mean to say, it's great to see every single character that shows up at all). I can't wait to see what new twist Thailog and Sevarius are going to be brewing up to this time, or what the Illuminati are planning for their thirty-sixes. It was also really great to see Goliath and Elisa have their moment this issue, and Brooklyn's sardonic comic relief right after was priceless. It's just one of many reasons why we love him.

Looking forward to issues 6 and beyond. A round of additional thanks to everyone else involved.

Greg responds...

Thank you for supporting us!

Response recorded on September 04, 2007

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Brigadoon Traveller writes...

Gargoyles #5: Bash

First off I have to say how spectacular the artwork is looking in this issue; usually I have no problem with the art and actually quite like Hedgcock's work - but Karine Chalebois' experience of the characters certainly shines in what has to be the best looking issue to date! It's not perfect, some of the characters look quite stiff at times (a minor, trivial annoyance in comparison), but there are some scenes which literally shine off the page. I love the view Brendan has of the gargoyles fighting, Thailog and Brentwood gliding off from the Eyrie look spectacular, and Delilah really looks gorgeous as she shines out as her own gargoyle. This issue has made me all the more excited for Bad Guys; with artwork like this hopefully the series will blossom.

But let's get back to the Bash - this issue brings an end to the first all new canon 'episode' and nicely wraps up the story in 3, 4 and 5 whilst setting up even more intriguing questions for future issues.

Side points that really shone out:

There's a couple of familiar faces waiting for us outside the lift; seeing Mary and Finella makes me all the more impatient for Timedancer.

Super-goyle: Brooklyn coming out of the elevator like that really made me chuckle - loved it!

The action scenes - this issue was jam packed with action, so much so that I forgot that Thailog's was waiting for Delilah.

Brentwood - Now that was a surprise! I really thought that he would be the one to rebel against his master, but more on that later.

Now onto the story:

One con about getting the comic a week after everyone else is that the internet is a minefield of spoilers. Despite my best efforts to avoid spoiling the story I somehow found out that Delilah didn't choose Thailog and that Thailog's real goal in attacking was to obtain DNA from the gargoyles.

This latter revelation disappointed me before I'd even got the comic- why? When I heard DNA I thought more clones all over again - which didn't make sense. Thailog already had minions which listen to his beck and call why make more? I didn't understand it. I still don't really.

But as I thought about it (after I actually read the story) I became intrigued. What does Thailog actually want with DNA of the clan? What more could Sevarius do with gargoyle DNA that he hasn't done already (aside from Voodoo magic)? And I'm sure Thailog being a member of the Illuminati (which was a shock of sheer genius) complicates the matter even further. I suppose I'll just have to wait for the rest of Clan Building (and hopefully the rest of season 3) for all of this to be answered. But I have to say I'm intrigued, even excited. And as for Shari, well, she's certainly full of surprises - a number 9! Greg you certainly know how to leave us begging for more! So Shari, the mysterious unnamed woman who's been hanging around in the Labyrinth, is now Thailog's new executive assistant and outranks him as a fellow Illuminatus. And what exactly do the Illuminati want with the gargoyles?

Speaking of the Illuminati, we're certainly learning a lot more about them; Duval is actually no. 2 alongside Quincy Hemings. Who is number 1 then? Hmmm…

So the greeting that started off as 36 : 32 and ended as 36 : 9 is actually a ranking system; with thirty-six 36s, thirty-five 35s, all the way up to two 2s and one 1 that leads up to 666 members!

The Illuminati are certainly turning into the big players of this season, with their fingers in almost all the pots; financing the Quarrymen, overviewing the taskforce, a high ranking member is now working for Thailog, and now they're sending Xanatos on secret missions. These guys are really coming out to the forefront dominating the entire scene from behind the curtains.

Enough of secret societies; lets talk clones again.

One interesting thing about Bash is that the clones, especially Delilah, really come out of their shells.

Delilah: One interesting point was Owen finding her standing around in Xanatos' lab. Wonder what she was doing in there.

I was actually surprised by her language skills; they seem to be a lot better than that of the other clones.

"Is that an order, Angela? Or am I truly free to make my own choices?"

I said that I unfortunately knew already from spoilers that Delilah didn't go with Thailog. So when I first read Delilah say "I believe this fighting may cease now" I thought that she was going to spurt something cheesy to Thailog about him attacking her "friends" so she isn't going to go with him. But to my surprise and delight she makes the above retort to Angela. And after that she starts digging into a wounded Goliath.

"You used me!"

Wow! Not only had she been secretly listening to Goliath and Elisa's heart to heart from the previous issue, but she now reproaches Goliath for bringing her to Xanatos' Masque Ball. Her general attitude towards the Manhattan clan seems to be one of a cold unconcerned frigidity; her short responses to Goliath's proposal in "Invitation Only" at first seems as if she is only acting under her 'Obey Thailog' instincts. And throughout "Masque" she seems quiet and unresponsive; she doesn't stand out. It's only in response to seeing her "brothers" in trouble that she comes out of herself. At first I thought her command to stop the fighting was addressed to Thailog, but I'm now starting to think as to whether she was also addressing the Manhattan gargoyles who she feels are attacking her brothers.

Now onto her brothers;

Malibu: Well he's certainly Brooklyn's clone; this green gargoyle's smitten with Delilah and I think the main reason he stopped fighting is because Delilah arrived and suggested leaving for the labyrinth.

Hollywood: Gar-girl (lol!) that's all I'm going to say!

Brentwood: This guy is turning into a real character! Interestingly he takes a passive role in the fighting and just sits on the sidelines watching. From his constant utterances of "free-will" on Maggie's prompting I was thinking that if anyone would leave Thailog to join the side of the Angels, it would be this guy. I'm going to be following his character development with great interest (hopefully it'll involve gaining better diction and vocabulary). "Thailog smart."

"Dude, you're really making me look bad!"

Lex's reaction though is priceless, but still quite shocking. I feel sorry for the clones at times; these poor souls compelled by their master to attack their "parents" who then later shun them making them live in the underground sewers. Lex doesn't seem concerned that his clone is aligning with the "bad guy" but rather that Brentwood's choice plays badly upon himself.

The Manhattan clan wanted nothing to do with their clones originally; but I feel this only helped to bring this band of misfits even closer. And maybe this abandonment helps explain Delilah's coldness to Goliath's clan. Last time they met she was beaten and chained by Angela; her brothers also beaten and then the five of them are taken in by Talon.

Delilah shines out as the more astute and most intellectually developed and as thus stands out as their natural leader. The other clones seem like children in comparison - "Labyrinth good", "Hollywood not fight" - and in turn Delilah seems to have picked up the 'big sister' role. I think this clan's development is going to be interesting.

Thailog and Sevarius interestingly rendezvous at Nightstone. One thing that struck me when Thailog attacked the Labyrinth to collect his "property" - this is the gargoyle that swindled Xanatos of $20 million and tried to kill Demona and Macbeth only to obtain their fortunes, why would his first course of action upon resurfacing be to collect his minions? He had invested millions into Nightstone and I thought his primary goal would have been to recover his company from Demona. Surprisingly (this issue is full of surprises) it seems Thailog doesn't think he needs to take back Nightstone hostilely; it's obviously more profitable to bankroll Sevarius behind Demona's back.

Minor points

Dr Sato's reappearance was a welcome return. And it seems he's now been thrust into friendship with the gargoyles. Look forward to how this turns out.

Brendan seems to be close to the end with Margot; he's also got another up close view of the gargoyles.

This review's seems to have turned more into a ramble; all I can say is that this issue was spectacular. I thoroughly enjoyed it. 5/5 well done!

Greg responds...

Glad you like it. I wouldn't count Margot out as far as Brendan's concerned though...

Response recorded on August 31, 2007

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Chameleongirl writes...

Oh dear freaking god!!

In all the joyful bouncing I was doing, I totally forgot something.

The KISS! (Once again, this is where the giant pink sparkly heart would go).

Greg, the next time I make it to The Gathering (ha!) I totally owe you a major hug (how about a bum pinch, that ok too?) :D

Greg responds...

Let's start with the hug and see where things go... ;)

Response recorded on August 31, 2007

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Chameleongirl writes...

I can't remember if I sumbitted a review for the last 4 issues, so I made sure to write one up today :D

I wish we could use HTML on this page, as I would write the word LOVE in giant pink letter, maybe with a sparkle effect. Because I truly do love it.

It's so exciting to get new stories, and this one, oh it just keeps getting better and better. Some questions are answered, a heap more asked and the tension kinda went through the roof :)

Brooklyn's costume reveal gave me the giggles, and I can't help but have a little soft spot for Brendan. I'd like to think he was the one who told Dr Sato that there was someone injured out in the courtyard.

Karine and Steph make an excellent art team, I can't wait to see how Karine goes with Bad Guys.

Greg, thank you once again for giving us Gargoyles.

Greg responds...

Thank you, Julie, for being there to receive it!

Response recorded on August 31, 2007

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Dan Wayman writes...

Wow! What an awesome new gargoyles comic! Number 4 & 5 were brilantly written. I also would like to say that Guler is the man, and Lostimolo is coloriffic. When I saw the cover of #5 I was thrilled as well as horriffied (poor goliath). I had to read it twice to get all the refferences stright.
The Illuminati's numbering system seems to indicate that for every number, there is that amount of people involved, is this the same all the way from 1 to 36?
I also feel bad for Lex since he was dressed just like his "future tense" self as a costume, and his clone brentwood chose to stay with Thalog. Could this be an Omen?
O.o Actullay Brooklyn wasn't having a good night either, witnessing all the couples holding each other at the end. I'm beggining to think that "Time Dancer" may play a role in his future (since everyone seems to be taken)Care to elaborate?
*>.<* still can't believe that Brooklyn's clone is going to make it with someone before he does, any chance that Delilah's affinity for Malabu is really because of her feelings for Brook?
I can't wait for the next Issue!
As alway's you ROCK Greg!

Greg responds...

Delilah probably isn't quite as shallow as Brooklyn, I'm guessing.

And yes, just as it's described in the issue, you've got the Illuminati number system right.

Response recorded on August 30, 2007

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Ed Reynolds writes...

GARGOYLES #5
"Bash"

I really, really hope the other colourists on the comic take note of Stephanie's colours here. One of the big issues in "Awakening" was the colour and beauty of the city and this is the first time that I've felt the comic has really conveyed that to full effect. The colours on the comic have been good so far, and obviously the darker shades are more intuitive for a comic of this nature, but this issue really captures the feel of the series.

Obviously a big part of that is the tag-team with Kanthara's line-art. And I think you really see the benefit of having people on the art who have a long experience with the series, from little things -- check out the moon, just like the series! -- to the real meat of the story: the characters. Odd things like Brooklyn's superhero pose, the Lex/Brentwood panel really nail the essence of the characters, their movements, the way they carry themselves. All the star characters look amazing, the battle sequences, the cityscapes... a real joy. Smashing work by Kanthara and Stephanie.

Greg B mentioned that the 'Gargoyles' and spin-off art teams would be better off switched around and I do tend to agree. Kanthara rocks the core characters but is on the spin-off book charting new territory in the universe. David Hedgecock is the fresh eye but he's in the shadow of the original series which entrenched a very specific vision of these main guys in our mind. It seems counterintuitive. But I rate both artists and I'm really excited by the prospect of seeing their work on alternate months.

Script-wise, I enjoy the focus on a major narrative strand at last. I found #4 highly entertaining but with so many different things happening, no single plot seemed to have something big happening. This issue has much more momentum and while I love the expansive universe, I hope most stories won't have quite so many separate subplots.

Observations: -

- The clones seem to have characteristics of their 'parents' and it's fun to see how a few lines kind of sets them apart from each other. Brentwood has Lexington's appreciation for intelligence and perhaps some of his capacity for hero worship. Hollywood seemed to enjoy 'playing monster' ("ROOOARR") rather than being genuinely villainous; he's also the only clone who specifically says he wants to not fight. Malibu has Brooklyn's weakness for women, and seems to follow Delilah as keenly as Brooklyn briefly followed Demona. Actually the Clone-Trio's stories here remind me a lot of moments from 'Deadly Force'. Lex falls in with the Pack; Brentwood falls in with Thailog. Brooklyn is starstruck by Demona; Malibu by Delilah. Broadway plays with a gun; Hollywood plays monster. Hard to tell much about Burbank except that he seems to have Hudson's love of the home -- he latches onto the idea of the Labyrinth specifically.

- "I wouldn't want to inhibit you, dear boy" -- great line.

- Thailog in the Illuminati will be very interesting. I wonder how fast our four 36es will climb the pyramid... especially Thailog and Xanatos.

- Thailog doesn't want Goliath dead. Which isn't a big surprise thinking about it (even in "Double Jeopardy", the planned murder wasn't the main aim, and he's already seen the benefit in Sevarius), but shows his Xanatosian strategist side is alive and well.

- Picking up some earlier Ask Greg comments by Alex Garg and Greg B, the slight hypocrisy in the clan's treatment of the clones fascinates me. They boss them around, call them "stupid clone!" and "forgery" and "bastard" (admittedly two of these to Thailog where their disgust is quite justified). But the gargoyles are seen to have 'attacked' the city and the people of NY are lashing out at them, calling them monsters, inhuman, without emotions. But outside Goliath croaking Delilah's name, none of the clones are addressed by name, or even shown any warmth or respect. Lex can't even look Brentwood in the eye at the end, he's more worried about his own standing with the clan. They seek tolerance, but don't offer it to the clones in a meaningful way.

- I like the Xanatosian plan-within-a-plan ending but it does mean that, at the end, this story turns out to be a bit of a cue-chalker for Thailog and Xanatos. Where's this going? Suspense!

- In #3, Hacker said that Duval went to a lot of trouble to arrange the meeting at the White House -- but now we find that it's Duval's equal he's talking to. I can see inviting a couple of ex-cons to a White House party might be politically risky, but I wonder if it was more of a comment on the relationship between the two Twos.

A couple of questions:

1. If #3-5 was an episode, which title would it have gone by? It would be nice to have a single name to refer to it (like #1-2's overall title is still "The Journey" to me) as rather than just issue numbers or a bunch of titles. I think "Masque" seems to be the most all-encompassing title, and we start #3 with a mask on the table and end with an unmasking.

2. I'm not really clear what the function of the Clan-Building title is. Can we expect the last story in the arc to provide some form of (what I imagine would be very open-ended) closure for the story elements currently prominent in the comic, or is it just like a banner title for ease of reference (and for selling trades?), e.g. The World Tour.

Anyway, I'm having a blast. Everyone involved with the comic is doing great work.

Greg responds...

1. I've answered this, but I also disagree with the premise. #1&2's "overall title" is only "The Journey" because you know what it was adapted from. But that's old news. The title of issue 1 is "Nightwatch". The title of issue #2 is "The Journey". The title of issue #3 is "Invitation Only". And etc. We're in a different medium. It's pointless to attempt to import tv traditions into it.

2. One would hope that it's more than just a banner. You can decide for yourself in a year.

Response recorded on August 30, 2007

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Phoenician writes...

Hey Greg! Thought it was high time to enter my review for #5 Bash!!

First off, it's a shame I coudn't make it to this year's Gathering. However, now knowing that there's bound to be some surprises like Issuess 3,4,&5 for the Radio Play have finally given me the motivation to try Chicago (It's closer, so there's hope!)

Second, on my way to get this comic, I just BARELY got the last one. I followed your advice thi time, Greg and I told the clerk that if they keep running short (it was barely noon!) that they should start ordering more. He assured me that they would do so this September!

Anways, here's my thoughts for Bash:

Beautiful shot of the Eyrie Building. Nice to see the Third Quarter Moon too . . . reminder that it's only been about two weeks since Hunter's Moon.

Mary & Finella . . . Greg, you smug mastermind! You just love throwing little surprises like that, huh? :P

Nice to see Dr. Sato again, though I honestly forgot what he looked like since I haven't seen Deadly Force in about six months.

Brooklyn's costume was wonderful, and it was my brother who noticed that his red wings acted like his cape!

I always did love that line of Robbins' in Dying of the Light about Conrete & Leather, so I was glad to see that survive into Canon.

Quincy & Xanatos were quite fun to watch, especially Quincey's line of "Now don't get smart, boy!" Knowing his estamated age, Hemings has every right to call him that!

I noticed how Thailog kept retracting his blades and using new clean ones, and I first wondered, Does he have a Danny Tanner/Jerry Seinfeld complex of having to always be neat and clean? Then it all made sense: He was taking DNA samples. While I enjoyed this revelation, I was kinda surprised that Thailog would use an old tactic again, clearly when the last time resulted in losing the Clones.

However, I then remembered Xanatos telling Goliath that old habits die hard as well as the thought that maybe Thailog is merely using an old tactic for a new means . . . and as some have said below, he and Sevarius are probably planning an army.

The shot of Thailog & Brentwood leaving the Eyrie was spectacular, IMO.

Brooklyn has one of the best lines in this issue, "You gotta be kidding me!", while looking at Delilah & Malibu. Good lord, his luck is terrible . . . for now at least.

Finally, the new girl . . . well, we don't have to call her new girl anymore, now do we? Shari . . . and she's a rank of nine. And Thailog's a Thirty-six!! Wow . . . wonder what they did to earn those spots??

Speaking on the Illuminati Ranks:

It appears that only WE are surprised by Duval's Number with the fact that even Xanatos knows he's Number #2.

666 Members (or possible members) of the most influential people on earth . . . wow.

Who IS One? I guess we'll find out soon enough . . .

Anyways, #6 can't come soon enough! Thanks again for such a great return into the Gargoyles Universe!

Greg responds...

You're welcome. Thanks for being there to read it!

Response recorded on August 29, 2007

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brooklyn the red one writes...

hi greg iam wondering why dose't slg have gargoyles#5 yet what is going on

Greg responds...

They do. Check again, please.

Response recorded on August 29, 2007


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