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matt writes...

while reading Greg Bishansky's great rambles on "CoS" i thought of a question, or rather, a comment: was it me or were there an awful lot of people outside, on the street, driving around, etc. at dawn when they all turned to stone? i can't imagine people would be shopping and whatever so early, oh, well... maybe i'm wrong.

Greg responds...

New York. The city that never sleeps.

But you have it backwards. Those people were out at Dusk, not Dawn. They turned to stone at NIGHT. Sundown. Not sunrise.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

In the episode, "The Mirror", why did Elisa act as if Goliath had turned back into a gargoyle when he already was one of course, whenever she was transformed into one? Vise versa when the clan was transformed into humans, why did they act as if they always had been humans? What I mean to say and what I always got confused about is, that Puck's spell shouldn't have made them forget what they were. When Elisa was transformed I would have expected her to be a little shocked at first, and then calm whenever she realized that she and Goliath were now of the same species, but she would still long to become human again deep inside.

Greg responds...

Why?

I mean why are you setting limits on Puck?

The whole point was that NOBODY noticed the transformation. When all of Manhattan was transformed, the former humans didn't run around panicked and screaming over their new bodies. The transformation was so complete they thought they had always been that way. Same with Elisa and the gargs until logic forced them to take a closer look at it.

Anyway, it worked fine for me. If it makes you feel any better a lot of my staff originally agreed with you. They thought I was nuts. But most vindicated me later.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

when the Magus died on the bed of the Sleeping King, did they just leave him there? i can't imagine they would unless there was some sort of magic there that would keep the Magus from decomposing, which would be kinda gross. so if they left him there, will he decompose or not?

Greg responds...

It seemed a fitting resting place. And crypts aren't that unusual. But I'm guessing they sealed off the Hill.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Entity writes...

High Noon responses:

I always noticed the "sense of smell" error in the cyberspace scene. I'm gratified, as I've been with a lot of the revelations found in your episode-by-episode commentaries, that this not pure neglect or that at least it is recognized after the fact and has an explanation, in real life or in theory. Thanks.

On stealing Coldstone, I always wondered why Macbeth and Demona needed to sneak into the precinct house through the front door. Since they escaped in a hovercraft, couldn't they have landed from one directly atop the clocktower?

That's about all. I'm sure everyone else will cover the other bases.

Greg responds...

They didn't have the Grimorum UNTIL they snuck in, so they couldn't mask the hovercraft until after they stole the Grimorum.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Awakening Pt 1" we see, briefly, another gargoyle with Lexington's wing structure. cosidering how rare it is, would it be safe to assume that the gargoyle was a close relative biologically to Lex, like his father or older brother? was that gargoyle one of these?

Greg responds...

Maybe. Though I never said it was rare. Just rarer.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Aaron writes...

City of Stone, 1-4 mini-ramble.

There so much to address here, I should really dig out my tapes before attacking it, but...

A few things still stick out.

I remember the first time I watched it, and thinking something didn't quite add up with what Demona was saying. Before the advent of mass media, exactly how would Demona get enough people together to make a spell like the one she sold Xanatos on worthwhile?

I remember being really impressed with the scene where MacBeth goes skysurfing, or whatever you want to call it, with the line wrapped around Demona's leg. Really good showcase of exactly how determined, not to say completely mental, MacBeth is at this point. Can you imagine how much it would hurt if Demona did succeed in shaking him off? Even if you're immortal that's gotta suck.

And of course, I did love the double punch D&M give Goliath. (But then, I'm a Demona fan, so watching the big purple guy take one usually amuses me)

Greg responds...

I think the idea of the lie in the past was that Demona just stole massive quantities of youth from a few individuals. This was a way to do it so that NO ONE could possibly notice or miss the time. At least, that's what she told X.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Heritage", does Raven call Natsilane a bratty Chief, as in a brat, or a Bradi Chief, as in the name of Natsilane's tribe when he says, "If the B.... Chief won't fight me, the island is mine!" i can see why Raven would say both, but i'm leaning toward the latter.

Greg responds...

Bratty, I'm pretty sure, if those are my only two choices. Because the name of the tribe was Haida, not Bradi. I don't know where Bradi came from. (Sounds like another mistake by the gang that did the close captioning. Why they didn't refer to the written scripts is beyond me.)

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Vanity writes...

I have been reading Macbeth and Demona responses and the above mentioned for "High Noon" where questions were asked why Macbeth didn't feel the pain when Elisa and Demona where in combat. And I think people are putting too much emphasis on the fact that Macbeth could prepare for the blows. Couldn't it be that, and if you watch the fight scene; Elisa didn't really "hurt" Demona enough to evoke the spell? Granted Demona ran head-first into a statue but that might not of hurt too much.

Greg responds...

A combination of all of the above -- including that we screwed up a bit.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Sapphire writes...

In the episode high noon Elisa was waiting for her gargoyles to return because it is nearly dawn and she was worried for their safety but instead the only gargoyle that came around was Demona, Demona transformed into a human when the sun came up but when downstairs and hailed a cab. My question is was Demona carrying any money with her when she got into the cab or did she just got out when the ride was over and not pay at all?

Greg responds...

She was probably carrying money. Or she made Macbeth pay.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Cassandra writes...

Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

recorded on 02-15-01

Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.

I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.

I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.

Greg responds...

And an interesting one. But yes, that Deadly Force moment was to Goliath, a kiss equivalent. Not necessarily a romantic kiss. But a caring one.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

in "The Gathering" when Goliath and co. arrived in New York what happened to the Avalon Skiff? did it sink as Arthur's skiff had done in London? if the just left the skiff in the lake or river could anyone have gotten in it and accidently gone to Avalon?

Greg responds...

It sank. But even if it hadn't, you need to know the incantation to get to Avalon.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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Durax writes...

City of Stone scenelet>> When Gil crushed the rose, I thought this was to tel the audience that, the scars on his face did more than damage his looks. I thought he had lost his sense of smell too. In my mind this provided even greater cause for him to grow more and more embittered against Demona. I don't think this is what you were intending though, not anymore.

Greg responds...

Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe I wasn't intending it. But maybe it's still true. Hmmm.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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matt writes...

Faieq, Goliath said, "I grow tired of this, take whats left of your men and begone!" i think he meant he was tired of that particular battle and i doubt there had been previous encounters with Hakon.

Greg responds...

Yeah. That sounds more like it.

Thanks, matt.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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Faieq writes...

In Awakening Part one, the Vikings or at least Hakon, are convinced that the gargoyles are just stone statues. This suggests that this is the first time Hakon has attacked Castle Wyvern. But when Goliath awakens he says something like, "I grow tired of these attacks." That means that the attack was only a middle of a series of attacks by the Vikings. Was the battle at the beggining of Awakening part one, the vikings first battle with Castle Wyvern. Or had another party of Vikings been attacking Wyvern and had moved on, leaving Hakon's army in charge of that area.

Greg responds...

Well, Hakon had never been there before. But you're quoting something that Goliath said in the MIDDLE of the battle. So he may have been talking about the fact that Hakon's crowd was still fighting. Or he may have been refering to the fact that Wyvern's isolated location often made them targets of attack. From other Vikings, etc.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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matt writes...

when Rory/Cuchalin said, "I had a dog like him once." (talking about Bronx) did he mean that the ancient Cuchalin had a garg beast or just an ordinary dog that was a loyal friend and warrior like Bronx is? sorry if you've been asked this before, but i couldn't find it in the archives...

Greg responds...

Garg beast.

And I don't think this one has been asked before. Good question.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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matt writes...

how long had Demona and Thailog been a couple when Goliath arrived in Paris? how long had Demona and Macbeth been in Paris?

Greg responds...

The following dates are tentative, based on my current reworking of the timeline -- still a rework in progress.

Demona and Macbeth arrived in Paris on 1-1-96.

Demona first encountered Thailog on 1-2-96.

Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrived in Paris on 1-21-96.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Mel. Celestial writes...

HiIIII!!!!!
1. Okay, so G&E's relationship is the only bridge, and Clan Manhattan didn't mind it at all; how do the other clans around the world might approve of it ?
2. That priceless look on Hudson's face(The Awakening eps.3), what was he thinking about those two(G&E, of course!), and did he find it appaling at first?

Greg responds...

1. Is this a reference to a previous response? If so, I've forgotten what we were talking about.

2. I'd say he was initially non-plussed. But I think he thought it healthy that Goliath was at least making a connection to a human.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Siren writes...

I didn;t see this in the archieves and was just curious...
In Eye of the Beholder, whose idea was it to dress Elisa as Belle from Beauty and the Beast. It just seemed too perfect and at such a good time in the 1st season to do so.
Also a slightly related question...Where did Goliath learn how to ballroom dance? Demona just doesn't seem the type to have done so before 998AD ;)

Greg responds...

That was my idea, I believe.

And Goliath didn't really need to know how to "ballroom dance". He just needed to be strong enough to hold Elisa and move to the music. It wasn't a contest.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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matt writes...

when Goliath and Hudson return to Wyvern after the massacre is it me or did Hudson seem to take the whole thing pretty well all things considered? while Goliath goes into an uncontrollable but understandable rage, Hudson just makes some remarks about betrayal and bow strings having been cut. i don't want to say that Hudson had more reason to be upset than Goliath, but Hudson did have several generations of rookery children murdered and many friends that he has known most his life killed in the massacre, he doesn't scream in rage like Goliath or cry in sadness. did his long life in this "world of fear" and the death of his mate better prepare him for the death of his people than Goliath? Hudson just seemed really mellow about the massacre...

Greg responds...

For starters, I think he was in shock. But we all handle tragedy differently. He fell back on his training.

And it's certainly possible that past tragedies may have better prepared him.

But I hardly think his response was "mellow".

Response recorded on March 02, 2001

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matt writes...

Greg, about what Titania whispered to Fox: you know what she said, right? so if we just started asking you "Did Titania say:......." it wouldn't be considered submiting ideas, right?

Greg responds...

Yes. It would.

The fact that I know already, changes nothing. I can't prove that I know already.

And if one of you should guess right, than that person could get pissed if he or she thinks I stole the line.

Response recorded on March 02, 2001

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matt writes...

a stupid question, really:
i was reading your ramble on "Awakening 4" and you mentioned that the dog Elisa puts the transmitter on (Rover) is seen in the next scene as a puppy on a dog food commercial that Hudson is watching. this dog was on tv and now is scrounging for trash... was this your intent or were you just making a joke in your ramble? if the puppy in the commercial did grow up to be "Rover" would that dog show up again, seeing as how there is alot of foreshadowing in gargs? by the way, what did the commandos do with "Rover" when they found the transmitter on him?
you should put this post into a category called, "You know you are obsessed with Gargoyles when..." :)

Greg responds...

Mostly, I was kidding.

As for the Commandos, I'm sure they let the dog go. They're goons, not monsters.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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Adam writes...

Okay, I won't ask you what Titania whispered to Fox at the end of The Gathering. But the last time I watched the episode, I thought I heard a kiss at the end of whatever it was she said. So did Titania kiss Fox after she said whatever it was she said? Of am I just hearing things?

Greg responds...

It's been awhile since I've seen it. I honestly don't remember.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Awakening" right before Goliath asks to have the sleep spell put on him, he asks the Princess to take care of the eggs. why was she thinking that Goliath was asking her this? why wasn't she confused thinking that Goliath could do a better job of raising the Hatchlings than her? did she figure that Goliath was going to ask for the sleep spell? she seemed surprised when he asked. i know she put her heart into raising these children and has been a great mother for them but i was really surprised that she wasn't scared to death when Goliath asked her this life-long favor, i would have been, what a responsibility!

Greg responds...

I'm not saying she wasn't intimidated, but she felt she could not deny him anything, under the circumstances.

Response recorded on February 26, 2001

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Chapter XXVII: "Outfoxed"

Time to Ramble...

My three year old son Ben watched the opening titles for about the five hundredth time. On the one hand, he made the point that it was getting dull seeing this same opening. He wanted me to fast-forward to the actual story.

On the other hand, he spent the time reviewing "the rules". How the gargs turn to stone during the day. How Goliath is the leader. Etc.

One thing we always cheated on was how Fortress-2 landed. There it is on the ground awaiting it's maiden voyage, and I just don't see any landing gear.

Vogel is introduced. This is another thing where I had to carefully explain my long-term intent behind the screen in order to get a model for the character that really looked like Owen but wasn't his twin. I remember a lot of people on the Disney Afternoon mailing list reacting negatively to Preston in this episode. Like he was a feeble imitation of Owen. Like we didn't know how to do any other kind of executive assistant. I was simultaneously amused and annoyed by those kind of comments. So now I'm curious. What was your initial reaction to Vogel? And what do you think of him now?

As usual, Travis has old-school attitude when interviewing his subjects. I like that. Makes him more of a character and not just a reporter place-holder.

Fox in casual clothes. With a very casual, yet strangely intense attitude. "I know what happens next," Fox says to David.

My six year old daughter Erin asked, "Why is she watching [Travis' report] like that?" She could tell something was up there.

And in fact, like UPGRADE, this was another episode where we were intentionally trying to show that Fox was David's equal. We show it physically in their martial arts work out. And we show it by giving her a ruthless and complex plot to take Cyberbiotics. In fact, in this episode, when you add in the fact that David is clearly in the dark about her pregnancy test, she seems to be a little equaler than he is.

Fortress-2 takes off. And Goliath sends us into flashback. This is flat-out padding. For some reason, though the script is the same basic length as any of our scripts, this one timed out short after story-boarding was done. (Most of my stories time out too long.) So we added this flashback. I think it was a mistake. It kills the stories momentum, and we already had the sequence later where Renard shows all the important scenelets to Goliath. Those become incredibly redundant. When you add in the "Previously on Gargoyles" opening, it was just too much.

Elisa reveals the show's Hill Street Blues influence by telling Goliath to "be careful out there."

Goliath gets attacked by cybots. As noted, any individual cybot is no match for him. But they have strength in numbers. I wanted to show that Goliath can still kick some ass when motivated. So the cybots shoot at him. And his only response is "That. Stings." Very intense. Unfortunately, I think sound-wise the line gets buried.

And that's a general problem with the episode. On a technical level this just wasn't one of our best. The animation isn't awful, but it's mediocre. Goliath's size relationship gets screwed up here and there. (Particularly in the brig sequences.) The story's padded by flashbacks. Our normally great sound team, didn't do the most inspiring job on this one either. It just generally feels like one that got away from us.

I still think there's some great stuff in it. And the revelation of Fox's pregnancy actually makes it something of a landmark (both for our series and for animated series in general), but the execution never quite lived up to its potential. Oh, well.

CONTINUITY & INTRIGUE

Did anyone remember Cyberbiotics before this ep? Had you ever wondered who Xanatos was stealing from in the pilot? We knew that Cyberbiotics abandoned their underground base, which became the home of the Mutates. Now we were rebuilding the air fortress and revealing that the CYberbiotics Tower is still in business.

Also, Renard mentions Gen-U-Tech. And the revelation that Sevarius and Burnett used to work for Cyberbiotics. Of course, Renard thinks that Xanatos stole Sevarius and Owen away. We know better. We knew even then that Sevarius is much better suited to work for a man like Xanatos than Renard. And of course, now we know why Owen was Xanatos-bound as well. But what did you guys think of that minor revelation at the time?

Renard's opinion of Xanatos is probably colored by his relationship to his daughter: "And that's the least that viper has stolen from me." Did you stop at that moment to consider what that meant and what he meant by the "My Anastasia. My Janine." line? Did anyone (from Renard's name, if nothing else) guess that Fox was his daughter, before the tag? Who did you think Anastasia and Janine were at that time? Or did Goliath's follow up line, "My angel of the night." distract you from considering these questions?

At this point, just before the Janine line, Erin (who has seen these before, but not recently) remembered: "That's Fox's daddy!"

Goliath has some cool lines here too. "I belong to no one." "I serve no master."

And Renard (voiced by Robert Culp to perfection) has some great lines too: "Not my fault, not my fault. You sound like every human employee I've ever FIRED." and "Take some responsibility."

What was fun for me, although maybe for no one else, was (a) to get some hard thoughts about both the need and the difficulty of maintaining personal integrity up onto the screen and (b) doing that by lecturing to Goliath, arguably one of the most "integrous" characters I've ever written. (b) served (a), by showing that even Goliath can be prone to slipping.

The thing is that integrity really matters to me. And yet, I don't know how much of it I exercise in my own life. I really do try. But it's so hard. And not because I'm a dishonest person, but more because I'm lazy. It's easier to shift blame, to tell white lies, etc. The alternative takes effort and vigilance. I think the rewards are immense, even if the costs are too. But I ain't kidding myself about the difficulty.

The martial arts scene. Reminiscent of the scene from the Edge where Owen toppled David. Here we hinted even more strongly that Fox is Renard's daughter. David is basically giving her permission to back out of the plan, to save face and exit, BEFORE she destroys her father. It's not that David really cares about Halcyon. I think he's thinking about his relationship to his own father. David likes to believe (at this stage in the series) that he's evolved beyond the need for a parental relationship. But "Vows" sort of demonstrates that his relationship with Petros is much more complex than that. David still needs parental approval and is somewhat amazed (at least subconsciously) that Fox does not. Again, in this episode, Fox is more than his equal.

And now the doctor calls with test results. David shows legitimate fear here for a moment. He's not thinking pregnancy. He's worried maybe she's sick or something. She enjoys toying with him. Maybe she's just in a mood. But her armor is on in force in this ep. We won't really get INSIDE Fox until "The Gathering" two-parter.

Finally, Goliath acknowledges his crime: "I was wrong." Cary had this great line for Renard: "I'm glad you're gargoyle enough to admit it."

Robert Culp and Peter Scolari were an interesting pair as Renard and Vogel. Culp was tough in the booth. Very precise. Very clear ideas about how he wanted to play the character. Tougher on his performance than Jamie and I were. And the results show.

Peter was a dream to work with. We spent an hour talking after the recording (about Busom Buddies, mostly). He's an incredibly nice guy. And he picked up the character right away. Despite the fact that we didn't have Jeff Bennett there to do a little Owen for him. He just got it.

Until the end, Vogel really plays Renard in this. He knows how much Renard hates whining blame-shifters, so he's constantly saying things like "You can place the blame on me if you like." in order to defuse any of Renard's suspicions.

But in a more subtle way, Renard is unwittingly playing upon Vogel as well. He doesn't intrude on Vogel's phone calls. He treats him with respect and gives him credit ("You and I built this ship together"). Insists that Vogel save the people in the tower, even if it means Renard's own life. We can see that Vogel was willing to take Fox's money for a bit of corporate espionage. But Vogel is not a killer. (It's important to see that he views Goliath as a creature.) This partially explains his turnaround at the end. (Which some people complained about.) All along he's been trying to get Renard to GET OFF THE SHIP. But Renard forces his hand. And when push comes to shove, Vogel likes Renard too much to see him die. "Mr. Vogel, I knew you wouldn't let me down." "You have that effect on people." And then Goliath basically bluffs him at the end there into confessing, screwing up their relationship.

But Goliath fixes it again. His last discussion with Renard sets up the reconciliation between them that must have taken place before "Golem".

At any rate, it's also nice to see Goliath make a NEW friend. This was important, because that has always been Goliath's goals. To make friends with humans on his own terms. Every once in a while, we had to show it working. Couldn't just be ONLY Elisa forever.

Ben weighed in at this point and said, "Daddy, I love Xanatos. And I love Fox." Of course, Ben and Erin dressed up as David and Fox at the last Gathering. In fact they dressed up in the martial arts outfits from this episode. Thus the affinity. I once played Theseus in the play THE WARRIOR'S HUSBAND. And Edmund in KING LEAR. It gave me an on-going affinity for both characters and awakened my interest in "The Bastard" archetype.

Now the tag. I'm usually pretty proud of our tags. They often advance the overall story as much as the entire episode. But this is one of my favorites. "Hello, Janine." "Hello, daddy." Was anyone ready for that? And her attitude: "Almost got you that time, didn't I?" The whole sense that Fox is in all this just for kicks. She's not as acquisitive as her husband. He'd always take the path of LEAST resistance to a goal. If Renard would give Janine the company, X would suggest she ask for it. But she doesn't care about the company. ONLY the game. X likes the game. But he's about RESULTS. All established in one little scene.

And of course that slick little pregnancy revelation. I think that was one of the most revolutionary and flat-out subversive things we did on the whole show. Was anyone ready for that? We had hinted at it with the "genetically compatible" line in "Eye of the Beholder" and obvioulsy with "It's your doctor... with test results." But I think it was quite the shocker.

And Fox is so tough. Pregnant and back on the hang-glider. I love it.

Okay, I'm done. You're turn. Ramble away...


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One writes...

Is there any particular reason Desdemona divided herself into three versions of herself (one with black hair, blond, and white) in "High Noon"... I just thought there might be relation between this and the fact the weird sisters were in the episode manipulatining MacBeth and Demona.

Greg responds...

Des didn't do it. She opened herself up to possession and the Weird Sisters did it.

Response recorded on February 22, 2001


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