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"THE MIRROR" Outline memo...

Next up for my Ramblings is "The Mirror". What follows is the UNEDITED memo I sent to story editor Brynne Chandler Reaves regarding the first draft outline for that episode.

This is one I had very specific ideas on, so I may have been even tougher than usual. Oh, well...

WEISMAN 10-30-94

Notes on "The Mirror" Outline...
Brynne, I hope you consider this flattering: I'm gonna be very tough on you here, because I think you can handle it. It's not just because of this outline, but because in general, I want you to be handing me cleaner, more finished pieces. Although the story is full of great ideas, there are logical and structural problems here that need fixing. As I've discussed, I want to be less "hands-on" so that the schedule keeps flowing and we all stay sane, but that means I need you to catch much more of this sort of thing before I ever see it.

One particular concern of mine (and not so incidentally of Gary Krisel's) is padded first acts, where nothing of substance happens until the cliffhanger. Each story dictates its own structure, so I don't want to make any hard and fast rules, but this is one thing you should be thinking about on every episode you edit or write. We can have a prologue scene or two. But we don't want to turn the whole first act into a prologue to events that only begin seconds before the commercial break.

Scene One is a nice prologue. So is Two, if it's brief. Three, Four and Five are padding. Six is good prologue, but by this time it feels like padding. Seven is problematic from a character/logic standpoint. Finally, we get going at Eight.

And opening acts aside, we need to beware of scenes that serve no function in the structure of the story. A real good character moment is worth a detour on occasion. But our stories have to be coming out of character anyway, so nine times out of ten, the detour shouldn't be necessary.

Ever since "Reawakening" we've tried to make the Gargoyles much more pro-active. But even by first season "survival-mode" standards they seem downright slow to act here. In scene Three, they suspect magical bad news is on the way. In scene Six, they confirm Demona's involvement. Yet in scene Ten, they go to the play in the park like nothing was wrong. Worse, in scene Sixteen, when the humans are transformed, the younger gargoyles actually think that the transformation is part of the play? They're more sophisticated than that. And instead of reacting like it's a problem, they just want "contact with their kind". I wouldn't mind a wistful line that summoned up their feelings about how this reminds them of their old lives when there were many gargoyles and/or that it's nice to be able to walk out in the open without everyone running away screaming, but they have to realize that this transformation is bad news. Then in scene TWENTY-TWO (that's the beginning of ACT THREE and a full fourteen scenes after Goliath battled Demona in the museum) they "are certain now that Demona is behind this". Who did they think was behind it for the last act and a half? This is a good sign that we're either short on structure, heavy on padding or both.

THEME
We must have a clear theme that involves at least one of the "good" gargoyles in every episode. We shouldn't have to dig deep for it. It's what focuses the events that dictate our structure. Today's theme is "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." It applies to Demona, obviously. But it applies to subconscious desires on the part of Goliath. And wistful, but conscious desires on the part of Elisa. And even (to a small extent) the desire of our young trio to assimilate. Emphasize the theme as much as possible.

GARGOYLES AND MAGIC
Please remember that the gargoyles are largely ignorant of the workings of magic. They have an advantage over humans in that they know magic exists. That's about it. Demona and Macbeth have had centuries to study it. Guys like the Magus and the Archmage dedicated their lives to studying it. Brooklyn, on the other hand, is no expert. I doubt he can even read Latin. And the GRIMORUM is not a textbook that would provide easy answers even if he could read it. It is, in essence, a cookbook. If a recipe is torn out, there's no way to infer very much about it from the remaining pages. Remember, the Magus had the sleep spell he used on the gargoyles, and even with that and all his training, he couldn't wake them up without the specific page that held the counterspell. HOW could Brooklyn find a list (scene 5) that matches Demona's list? WHY would the Grimorum list the items for one specific spell twice? HOW could he know the name (Scene Eight) of the entity being summoned?

Could the Grimorum tell them that Puck's spells must be reversed before dawn? Or how Puck frees himself? Unlikely. (Would Julia Child's cookbook feature recipes by the Frugal Gourmet?) But (if we assume Goliath reads Latin, and could make heads or tails of the Grimorum, without having to sit down and spend an entire week reading the thing cover-to-cover to find a helpful passage in a book which, as you noted, has no index) -- it is possible. We always skate by a few things in every script. But the more we have to skate, the thinner the ice in general. Something that normally would fit neatly beneath our audiences suspension of disbelief, becomes one more contrivance in a story that's got a few too many.

DEMONA'S MOTIVATIONS
First off, she's not looking for an equal partner or ally. She's made that clear enough. That's exactly her problem with Xanatos. He always wants to know what's in it for him. He can't be easily controlled. He's fine if they have a mutual interest (resurrecting Goliath or Coldstone), fine if she can con him into helping her (as she does in "City of Stone"), but the latter isn't easy. Otherwise, they can't work together. They're goals are too diverse.

As for Macbeth, don't even bring him up. This story airs before CITY OF STONE. She hasn't seen Macbeth for decades probably. And it's been centuries since they worked together on anything.

None of this changes the story, but it's important to get her mind-set clear. She isn't summoning Puck as an ally. But as a slave.

And what does she want her slave to do? Basically, this episode is going to underline Demona's truly short-term thinking. She knows she wants humanity eradicated. But not what she'd do if she ever accomplished that goal. She's closed her heart to anything that doesn't serve her immediate short-term plans. (She's really, really screwed up.) At one point, Puck should offer her Goliath. He can make Goliath love her again. But she's so distracted by her hatred for Elisa in particular and humans in general, that she can't keep a positive thought in her head. Her monolithic and myopic fanaticism allow Puck to make a primate out of her, literally and figuratively.

PUCK
First big note from Adrienne and ME: we cannot play this character like he's a demon. His summoning in particular came off as very satanic. Let's try to make it more fanciful and magical. One thing that would help avoid this problem, is to be clear about what Puck is. If we aren't clear, people might think demon or devil. If we are clear, they'll believe us. We've got to establish, not only Puck, but his entire magical race. They are the third sentient group that once populated our planet in addition to humans and gargoyles. We need a name for this race that we can be comfortable with. (We can say at some point that the Scots called them the Fair Folk; the Vikings called them Dark Elves. But neither name is great. There must be something that could work for us. "The Oberati" perhaps, after their king?)

Then we need to set some rules and limits. Particularly given what we know about the Weird Sisters (and about Puck's secret identity). Obviously, not all of these rules need to be spelled out in this script. But let's make sure we know them. Let's begin by saying that the Oberati can all shape-shift. But when they morph into a form, they're stuck with that form's limitations. No magic happening if they pose as human.

In their true forms, they have a lot of magic power, but a rule against the direct use of it in the world of man (witness the Weird Sisters more indirect manipulations). Maybe this is a command from Oberon which they are afraid, but not unable, to break.

An obvious exception to the rule occurs when they are enslaved by someone else who commands them to use their magic. They are off the hook responsibility-wise, so they can go to town. Thus, most cultures have wish-granting legends about Leprechauns or Djinn or whatever.

Conveniently, the Oberati are creatures of pure magical energy. When they cast a spell, the spell doesn't have the limitations imposed on the studied magic of human or gargoyle sorcerers. The subjects of their spells don't have to see and hear them to be affected. It's a more fluid, less structured form of magic. Magic to the Archmage is an art, craft or science to master. Magic to Puck is as natural (or super-natural) as breathing.

But even Puck must have his limits. Even magical energy should be finite. We MUST establish this fact, at least. If Demona asks to get rid of all the humans on the planet, Puck will have to admit that it's too much for him. Would she settle for all the humans on the island?

Did the Gargoyles meet or hear of Puck specifically, back in the tenth century? I doubt it. They lived fairly isolated lives out at Wyvern. And Puck didn't get famous until Shakespeare made him famous quite a few centuries later. Maybe they've heard stories about the Fair Folk, but again, let's resist the temptation to make Goliath or Brooklyn or Hudson experts on the subject. They seem pretty perplexed by the Weird Sisters in "City of Stone". That should define their reaction to Puck, whom they're meeting here prior to that story.

Why does Puck help Goliath turn stuff back to normal at the end? Well, for this episode's purposes, it'll probably work that Goliath holds the chain and issues a command. But Demona held the chain, and Puck always found a way to circumvent her commands. So why doesn't he do the same to Goliath? Two reasons, probably. First, it further annoys Demona, who he's peeved at for enslaving him in the first place. Second, once Puck is free, he can return to his secret identity, where he's been having such a good time. He wants things back to normal himself. Still in future appearances, we need to be sure that Puck doesn't turn into a personification of Deus ex machina.

Use it sparingly, but it's o.k. with me if Puck breaks the third wall and addresses the audience on occasion.

Finally, Puck's name. The Disney execs are of two minds on this. Bruce prefers Goodfellow. His main concern is the constant policing we'd have to do to make sure Puck doesn't ever come out Fuck. Ellen feels that Goodfellow has more association with Satan than Puck does and that Puck is safer on that level. I'm really torn. I tend to agree that Puck is a slightly more recognizable Shakespearean reference than Goodfellow, and thus stonger and safer. I also think the name suits the character. On the other hand, I think Goodfellow is an effectively ironic name for a character who is, for all intents and purposes, a villain. Part of me really wants to use both. Could the spell that enslaves Puck to Demona have something to do with her knowing his true name, Robin Goodfellow? Adrienne, I think, is on the fence with me. But I'm not sure. We should probably discuss this one last time before you go to script.

THE MIRROR
Think of the Wicked Queen's Magic Mirror times ten. It is a window, a doorway, a Peeping Tom.

HUMANS AS "GARGOYLES"
As we discussed, I don't think the humans notice they've been transformed. Some of the ridiculous fun of this episode should be to see them, walking around, going about their normal business, briefcases and subway tokens in hand, with no indication that anything is different. If they looked in a mirror, they'd preen as usual. They wouldn't freak out or recognize the change.

Although they have wings, I don't think it occurs to any of them to start gliding around the city. And if they see (the soon-to-be more self-aware) Elisa flying, it would be shocking: "Look, Mommy, that lady is flying!!" It's not that they'd see her suddenly as a gargoyle. (It'd be like seeing Superman. A normal enough looking person. He just happens to be leaping tall buildings with a single bound, which is, of course, unusual enough.)

When Goliath and clan walk among them as gargoyles, I don't think they see them as unusual. For once, looking like a gargoyle is normal. Like Halloween, in "Eye of the Beholder", it's another rare moment for our guys when they can be out in the open. (This may have been what you had in mind in scene 18. I wasn't clear.)

However, when Goliath and company enter their midst as "Humans", it should scare them. Once again, ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, and the "human" Goliath is still the monster. We should not skip this beat (as you planned to in scene 24). We should play it. It can be bitter, poignant and, yes, funny. (Appealing to Puck's dark sense of humor (and mine too, for that matter).)

ELISA AS A "GARGOYLE"
Like the other transformed humans, Elisa doesn't immediately realize she's been transformed. And looking in the mirror won't clue her in either. (And in any case, Elisa isn't the type to faint dead away.) In fact, she might turn to Goliath and suddenly ask, "Could you remind me why you guys are hiding up here in the clock tower?" Suddenly, they don't look so strange to her. Goliath is going to have to sit her down and talk her through the differences between humans and gargoyles. Her realization should play like a fog lifting.

And we probably should play out Goliath and Elisa both as gargoyles for an act. Maybe he teaches her how to fly. Maybe they're just about to get close enough to do the gargoyle equivalent of an embrace, when he's transformed to human. Get it so that we can all almost taste it. Then yank it away. (I know, I'm a cruel bastard.)

I also want to contrast Goliath's reaction to "gargoyle" Elisa with Elisa's reaction to "human" Goliath. He may say, "Elisa, I never realized how beautiful you are," because he always liked her for her inner beauty but, frankly, never found her physically attractive (no wings, no tail--shudder). And he's always made that mental distinction between the surface and what lies beneath.

Elisa never did. She recognized his inner beauty in episode three or four and ALWAYS thought he was handsome. Even before this episode, I think she's thought about the two of them and come to the inescapable conclusion that romance is impractical. Better keep it platonic. I think he's had those feelings, but has never connected to them mentally. (Look, no matter what the species, or how evolved the individual, he's still a guy. And guys are fundamentally stupid about this stuff.) Until this episode, it never crossed his mind that Elisa could replace Demona in his heart. The fact is she already has. But he never thought about it before now.

OUR GARGOYLES AS "HUMANS"
To be consistent, they shouldn't recognize the change until Elisa points it out to them. Maybe they were about to leap from the clock tower, and Elisa has to stop them and say: "Look, guys, you don't have wings anymore!"

But let's keep in mind that these guys are still heroes. NO WAY are they going to agree to step back because a gargoyle Demona is too tough for them now. Did Elisa ever step back when she was human? For that matter, there have been plenty of humans willing to go toe-to-toe with the gargoyles. Certainly Goliath is as brave as Macbeth or Wolf or Commando #3.

Also, I got confused in scene 29. Goliath has been transformed to human. That means human proportions. Sure, he'd be a big guy, but not as big as he was as a gargoyle. I don't know why armor would fit, say Broadway, and not him.

TONE
In contrast to our typical episodes, I think this one can have a more absurdist tone. Puck should both further the tone with his actions and undercut it with wry asides. Plus there'll be romantic stuff, also undercut, this time by Goliath's reaction to Elisa and the genuine frustration that comes from the situation's mutability.

GOLIATH BLAMES XANATOS...
For everything, it seems. In "Lighthouse" and to a lesser extent in "Leader", we've played the beat of Goliath mistakenly going to the castle to confront Xanatos for something that the latter had nothing to do with. I think by now, Goliath has learned his lesson. Particularly since the going's on here smack much more of Demona or Macbeth than Xanatos.

DEMONA'S HOME BASE
Let's get a clear sense of what this place is like. Particularly, how it is distinct from Macbeth's mansion: we've played his place like Wayne Manor. Dracon has the penthouse at the Park Manor Hotel. And Xanatos has this incredibly cool castle-on-a-skyscraper H.Q. Demona's home needs to be different from all of these and special in its own right. Also give us an at least approximate idea of where this thing is located. Gramercy Park, maybe?

SHAKESPEARE IN THE PARK
This was a great way to ground our Puck in Shakespeare, as opposed to Satan. No doubt about it. And no fault of yours, but I want to save this setting for a story that Michael and I have discussed involving Macbeth and an adaptation of Shakespeare's Macbeth. Plus, in this story, I want to play with Manhattan life going on, business as usual, despite the fact that everyone's been turned into a gargoyle. We can't do that if we limit ourselves to the Park and the closed Museum. I want to get this story out in the open. Have the "gargoyle" humans reacting in panic to the "human" Goliath and clan, the way they'd normally react to them as gargoyles. That's an opportunity we won't get in another story. We must take advantage of it. But having taken the story out of the park, we should work other Midsummer references into the script. Name the mirror after Oberon or Titania, perhaps.

BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. A warm Midsummer's Night. Demona arrives at the museum with grand theft in mind. She's come to steal the Mirror of Oberon (or whatever we ultimately call it) which has just arrived from Ireland (or Italy or wherever). The first museum security guard is no problem. But the second security guard turns out to be Elisa -- undercover, prepared and not without back-up, i.e. Goliath. They suspected that the mirror would be a prize too tempting for Demona to resist. Demona seems particularly furious over Goliath's continued "partnership" with Elisa. SHE HATES HUMANS AND SHE REALLY HATES ELISA!! (Demona knows how Goliath feels about Elisa, even if the big lug hasn't admitted it to himself yet.)

2. Anyway, we get a big action sequence in the museum which leads to a chase outside. Demona gets away from them, but without the mirror. And because our heroes are so thoroughly engaged in these activities...

3. ...They are absent when two high-tech but very human cat burglars show up at the museum, seconds later, to crate up and steal the mirror. (The real security guard is still unconscious and thus unable to do anything about them.)

4. The two thieves arrive at Demona's townhouse (or whatever) with the crated mirror. Otherwise, the scene plays pretty much as you had it with the delivery men.

5. Inside her home, Demona wraps thick iron chains across the glass of the stolen Mirror. She summons Puck. He comes flying out through the glass and thus winds up wrapped in the iron chains. He spends almost the entire episode with the chains pinning his arms across his chest.

6. Back at the clock tower, Goliath and Elisa are feeling like grade-A dorks. Elisa's just back from investigating the museum crime scene. It's now clear that Demona's job was to take out security and, if necessary, act as a diversion for the real thieves. Now the big questions are, what can she do with this mirror and how bad is this going to get? Perhaps this is a place to discuss the Oberati. Hudson tells what little he knows about them.

7. Our Demona and Puck scene. If he ever wants his freedom he must serve her. He tries to discourage her: he'd make a lousy servant. She doesn't buy that. Puck works for "him". He can work for her, etc. (That whole exchange.) O.K., okay, what does she want? Freedom from her one great vulnerability -- turning to stone during the day. What good is that, he wonders. You think you're gonna be able to walk down 5th Avenue in broad daylight? I can if you obliterate all humans, everywhere. What am I, the Genie of the lamp? There are limits, kiddo. C'mon, what do you really want? She pauses, and an image appears in the mirror. It is Goliath (in the clock tower, but we're tight on him, so we aren't tipping the location). Puck: "How quaint, after all these centuries, you're still carrying a torch. Well, if that's what you want, I can make him love you again. Although it will be really hard, because you're not exactly Miss Lovable." And then, in the mirror, Elisa steps into the shot, and puts a hand on Goliath's shoulder. Demona goes ballistic. She knows her heart's true desire. Get rid of the human -- Elisa Maza. Puck: "That I can do." He fires a magical bolt into the mirror at the image of Elisa.

8. Back at the tower, Elisa has a hand on Goliath's shoulder, reassuring him that they'll stop Demona's scheme, whatever it is. Suddenly, she is surrounded by a magical energy that rips her away from Goliath. The gargoyles try to help her, but they can't get close. We should think for a moment that this is the end of Rico... uh, Elisa. And then there is a blinding flash of light that whites out the whole screen. Followed by pitch black darkness. Elisa is still there. We see her silhouette as our eyes adjust and the light returns slowly to normal. She says she's o.k. And then she steps into the light. Transformed into a gargoyle version of herself.

END OF ACT ONE

Now I have to apologize. I know I promised you this for Monday. It's two a.m. Sunday and this is as far as I got. There's a reason (an excuse). Monday is Corporate Seminar. And my last act as an executive (before becoming a full-time producer on Tuesday) is to pitch all our new development to Michael Eisner and Rich Frank. This is a twice yearly event that requires a lot of preparation, and I just ran out of time to get these notes done. Normally, I'd pull an all-nighter, but I need some sleep to face these guys tomorrow.

You gotta admit, that was a pretty good excuse.

So I have to leave this to you. You're mission, if you chose to accept it, (AND YOU REALLY HAVE NO CHOICE IF YOU EVER WANT TO GET TO SCRIPT) is to write up a quick beat outline of acts two and three for me based on the sketchy notes below. It doesn't have to be long. Two to four pages is fine. The amount of detail that I gave you for Act One is all I'm looking for.

Act Two should have Goliath filling Elisa in about the change she's undergone. Maybe take her flying. Maybe this is where we get the line about him never realizing how beautiful she was.

Demona should be temporarily fooled into thinking Elisa's dead, and flushed with success, she asks Puck to rid all of Manhattan of its humans. Bing, bang, boom. Everyone's a gargoyle. People on the subway in from Queens, change into gargoyles as soon as the E-train hits the first Manhattan stop. "Gargoyles" on the way home to Jersey change back to human as they cross the bridge in their cars. NO ONE NOTICES AT ALL.

But Demona doesn't know any of this yet. She wants a tour of what she expects to be an empty city. Puck is secretly eager to see his handiwork, so they step into the mirror, which transports them to the heart of the city. Times Square, maybe? 5th Avenue?

Meanwhile, Hudson, Goliath, Elisa and the trio are all hunting for Demona. They quickly notice the change in the populace. (Maybe the shock of this wide-spread change interrupts what might have been the only chance Elisa and Goliath had for a same-species clinch.) They all know it's bad news, but the trio can't help enjoying the ability to walk among gargoyles again. Even if they are gargoyles in business suits: New Yorkers who still won't give them the time of day. Still, would it be so bad if this didn't get fixed? Yeah. Probably.

When Demona figures out she's been duped, she demands that the gargoyles be changed back to humans. Bing Bang Boom. Goliath, Hudson and the Trio are human. (I'm torn about Bronx. I guess the big dog is o.k. It just seems outside the terms of Demona's request, even by Puck's loose standards.)

Was Goliath flying at the time or is this another interrupted clinch between him and Elisa?

Act Three opens with Elisa saving Goliath from plummeting to his death perhaps. Then she has to make him understand that he has been transformed as well.

We wind up with a very public battle featuring Elisa and our Newly Human heroes against Demona and Puck. It's complicated by the fact that the general populace (who are all now Gargoyles) perceive the human Goliath, Hudson and Trio (and Bronx?) as monsters attacking what to them seems to be a very normal-looking Demona.

Still in the end, good triumphs. Puck makes everything right at Goliath's command, (but let's make it clear that at least in part, he's doing this to spite Demona and/or to suit his own agenda). Elisa is changed to human, before Goliath is changed back, and we have another near-clinch, that Puck interrupts with good-humored spite by changing Goliath back into a gargoyle.

Goliath frees Puck and he vanishes with Demona, rescuing her from Goliath.

Turns out Puck had more fun than he thought he would so he feels like he owes Demona a favor. He'll give her her original wish. No turning to stone during the day. (BUT WE NEED TO MAKE IT PAINFULLY CLEAR THAT SHE WILL STILL BE HER NORMAL GARGOYLE SELF AT NIGHT.) He takes his leave via the mirror.

Cut back to Elisa and Goliath for emotional wrap up. Just before the sunrise which, as usual, separates them.

And back to Demona. Silhouetted against the rising sun. It's up, and she's not stone. Puck kept his word, she can't believe it. Then she sees her human self in the mirror, which she smashes, yelling NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! And fade to black.


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Punchinello writes...

Hello greg and Gorebash.

Punchinello, here, with another question. I was thinking recently of the phoenix gate. It had always seemed to me that the design of the gate was odd, in that it's form reflected a specific history. One that you never had the chance to elaborate upon. Or never chose to. Let me explain.

The gate was identifiable as one of three magical objects that played a role in the series. The Grimorim. The Eye of Odin, and the gate. Of these three, the origin of the book seemed to be the least perplexing. Even if you had intended to develop a more involved history for the book, had the series continued, one could still reasonably conclude that it was the product of many magicians, who passed it down over generations, each making their own contribution to the knowledge within the text. The revelation that the eye was the actual eye of Odin was well recieved by myself. I think there is actually some kind of precedent for the body part of a god or magical figure being represented within a culture by an artifact (but as the literal body part). I am uncertain what it is I recall, of this sort, but the Osiris myth and various christian mythos come to mind.

The gate was given no historical origin. The rather robust histories of the other two artifacts, and what you intended with the "Timedancer" series, (which I had no idea about prior to finding this web site) incline me to believe that something more was intended with the objects origin. Further, the gates physical appearance struck me as being more that the arbitrary design of one of the show's artists. It's appearance was strangely deliberate. The heraldric profile of the bird. It's form reminiscent of a shield? The gate seemed to have had some function. (Perhaps before it became the phoenix gate.) So...

Was the gate something with an origin you intended to elaborate on?

Was it possibly part of some larger artifact? (I had the notion in my head, that it was a component from some other fictional artifact. Something from the same mythos as the Arthurian legend, perhaps. That it had been broken off or otherwise removed.) If that were the case then...

Was the artifact from which it came something that we might recognize? That is, something not too obscure? Something with it's own surrounding mythology like Excalibur or the holy grail?

I am thankful for any insight you can offer. Otherwise I just wont be able to get to sleep tonight.

Punchinello.

Greg responds...

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. It depends on how you look at it. (But you're skipping over the obvious.)

Response recorded on July 10, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

My iron question, posted again because of the crash.

The obvious reason for why Oberon's Children are vulnerable to iron is: a) they need some sort of kryptonite to keep them from getting out of control, and b) it's an element that comes from legend. But did you ever work out an "internal rationale" for why cold iron has the effect on them that it does?

Greg responds...

I can't remember my answer.

Hmmmm...

a and b are certainly true. But I think that iron ore may be something solid and ancient that pre-dates their evolution.

But honestly, I think it's more a and b.

Response recorded on July 10, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

In the Gargoyles Universe is fate a person (a fay) or an element like time?

In M.I.A Goliath says to Griff "Fate is conspiring against us." and "Maybe fate can somehow be... aaah..."*pushes Griff away* "cheated."
"Time is a river correcting it's course." Is fate also an invisible element like time correcting peoples lives and stories? Or is it one of Oberon's children, a trickster maybe?

Greg responds...

Fate isn't a person. (I'm not sure what you mean by "element".) But that doesn't mean that there aren't fae connected to fate the way Anubis for example is connected to Death.

Response recorded on July 10, 2000

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Abigail Thorne writes...

How did Goliath and the others learn that Demona and Macbeth can only be killed if one kills the other? Demona told Brooklyn in "Temptation" how she had been dealing with humans for hundreds of years, and Macbeth told Goliath in "Enter Macbeth" how he had named Demona, which she herself said in "Awakening Part 5" happened long ago. So I get how they could figure out both were immortal, but how exactly did they figure out the terms of the spell?

And another thing--if they knew that only Macbeth could kill Demona and vice versa, how come they thought Macbeth died in the crash in "The Price" and Demona died in the fire in "The Reckoning'?

Greg responds...

From the Weird Sisters, after they were captured -- but before they were released -- in "Avalon, Part Three".

"The Price" took place before "Avalon". And they never said she was dead in "The Reckoning". Goliath simply acknowledged that he wasn't sure. I mean how many questions have I had to answer here about the rules of the whole Macbeth/Demona thing. If you all have some doubts about how that spell works, don't you think Goliath and Angela might also.

Response recorded on July 10, 2000

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Demona Taina writes...

Me again!

I was watching the episode "The Price" a while ago. Great work on it! It really had me fooled the first time I watched it. I believed that Hudson put a spell on Hudson until I saw him on that cage. Great animation, too. I think Goliath look incredibly handsome! I'm a big fan of him. :)

Xanatos took a piece of Hudson's stone skin and threw it in the Cauldron. Owen submerged his hand in the Cauldron of Life, it turned to stone. So, I was wondering... what if Xanatos had taken a bit of Hudson's brown skin and threw it in the Cauldron instead?

What if instead of turning the body to stone it would make it immortal?

After all, wasn't it obvious to Xanatos that using a piece of stone would turn the body to stone? (Sure, it would make him immortal, but obviously not alive; unless he would've been alive under that stone skin, was he?)

Thank you for your time!
A devoted fan

Greg responds...

"...Hudson put a spell on Hudson"?

You mean sliced off some of Hudson's flesh? Ewwww. Not exactly X's style, eh what?

Anyway, no the recipee was specific. Gargoyle's STONE skin. And the result was intentional and ironic.

Response recorded on July 05, 2000

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Ed writes...

'TEMPTATION' comments.

Hi, Greg.

When I saw this the first time on GMTV, I was blown away. At least, for months after this was the episode I remembered. It had Brooklyn (whose name I took about 20 episodes to memorise for some reason), and more importantly - it had Demona. I loved Demona here, and I was delighted at the theme of betrayal that flows through here. There's a great sense of hurt. It's really gorgeous.

But watching it the second time and times after, I have to say that I was less impressed. Demona seems to have a stock of classic villainess threats that she doesn't really grow out of in this season. They were great first time, but I'd seen 'LONG WAY TO MORNING' just the episode previously (see my 'THRILL OF THE HUNT' comment) and heard very similar dialogue.

Also, I can't help feeling that the ending was a bit of a con. It was very clever, but the idea that all through CITY OF STONE, HUNTER'S MOON and whatever comes after Goliath is still under a spell from episode 7 (even one that is inactive) doesn't appeal to me much.

Greg responds...

Well, it always was a cheat. Getting off on a technictlity. I thought we could get away with it, and in a way, I think it's sorta cool, from a trivia standpoint, but I was aware that some people wouldn't be pleased. Ah, well...

Response recorded on July 03, 2000

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Faie writes...

In City Of Stone, Xanatos said to Owen, 'I'm told mixing magics is dangerous', did he mean Demona's spell and Puck magic or something else

Greg responds...

Yeah, Demona and Puck. Mixing mortal sorcery with Fae magic.

Response recorded on June 30, 2000

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Aris Katsaris writes...

Okay, this is what I meant with my question about prophecy and the existence thereof...

Usually in mythology/etc when an oracle/prophet speaks of the future this is due to some special power he/she/it has. In the episodes we've seen so far though, people like the Archmage (and perhaps the Weird Sisters as well) could only prophesy through the mechanism of time-travel. The knew of the future because they had been there or talked with the people who had been there, etc...

So... is there in your universe prophecy which is not simply knowledge gained through time-travel?

Greg responds...

Yep. (And I don't recall the Weird Sisters having done any time traveling -- except forward like the rest of us.)

Response recorded on June 29, 2000

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A Fan writes...

I'm curious exactly how magic casting works. It seems to be established that humans and gargoyles need a magic object and/or a magic spell to do magic.

But Oberon's Children seem to not have to use spells. Although Puck seems to. How do you explain that?

Greg responds...

How do you want me to explain it?

How about in writing?

Look, Fae magic and Mortal Sorcery are two different things. With Mortals, most of the magic comes from without. With Fae, most of it comes from within. Fae are made of magic.

After that clear distinction, the specifics depend on control, style, training, power, i.e. lots of factors. Anansi spins his spells. Puck rhymes his. Oberon is so powerful he just has to speak his will. But rhyming helps, so he does that too sometimes. Most Fae rhyme, but there are plenty of exceptions.

Mortals need something to gather and focus energy. A place, a talisman, a spell.

I'm not exactly sure if that answers your question. If you need more specifics, post again.

Response recorded on June 29, 2000

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Kayless writes...

Hey Greg, I have some religious questions for you.

1. Since you are seemingly very well versed in religious doctrine, I'm curious as to how you feel about the Judeo/Christian scriptures that prohibit wizardry. Deuteronomy 18:9-18:12 (Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord) makes it quite clear that God brooks no wizards in his fold. Is there a conflict for you since so much of the myth Gargoyles is based on revolves around magic?

2. What about the uncanny resemblance between gargoyles and demons? Why do the two look so much alike? Did dybbuks manifest themselves in the form of gargoyles in order to sow discord with humanity, hence the current demonic stereotype and poor human/garg relations?

3. How do the Fae feel about the whole God business? They seem a rather worldly lot, though some might be old enough to remember biblical events.

4. Why is Percy still using the grail? The Holy Grail is a sacred artifact, not your run-of-the-mill magical maguffin. Why would it continue to grant its power to Duval, who has since proved unworthy? I know you said it was costing him a high physical price but I find it odd that it should be giving him any kind of benefits at all (Anybody see what happened to the bad guy in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?).

5. Last one. Is the Judeo/Christian God the supreme ruler of the Gargoyle universe? Given the plethora of Gods and Goddess on the show, I'm just wondering what your views on this are (I prefer to think that He's the one in charge, but I had to ask).

Thanks for your time, as always. Now I must return to the Vole Wars…

Greg responds...

1. I'm clearly less "versed" than you seem to think. I won't comment on your citation in a vacuum. And I don't have a bible here in the office to check the context.

When you ask if I'm conflicted, I'm not clear on your question. Are you looking for my opinion on the bible? Personally, I think the bible is an astounding piece of literature with much to teach us. But I see the hands of man all over that book. And although it might lose me some fans, I cannot believe that God authored it. Inspired it maybe, but authored it, no. At any rate, I think many things in the bible are subject to interpretation. Often multiple interpretations.

2. Where do you get the idea that there is ANY resemblance between gargoyles and demons? From Medieval painters? Look, we haven't seen any demons in the series. We haven't seen any demons in the gargoyles universe. No angels either. I'm not saying whether they exist or not. But you're question assumes facts not in evidence.

3. The whole God with a capital G business? Like humans, every Child of Oberon is different. I try not to make monolithic generalizations.

4. Assumes facts not in evidence. A. Who says he's still using the grail? I said he still had it. B. And in any case, your question asked "Why". Why wouldn't he if he could? C. Who said the grail can "grant" power? D. If it can, who said it is? E. Who said Duval has proven unworthy?

And I certainly refuse to use "Last Crusade" as an authority.

I will say that the Grail is part of the reason that Percival and Blanchefleur are still alive. And that a price for that has been paid. But don't oversimplify.

5. As you may know, I'm Jewish. Most of my fellow Jews would not consider me to be religious, though that's something I might argue with. Personally, I believe in God with a captial G. Whether that means he's the Judeo/Christian God seems like a parochial question to me. Almost an elitist question. I also believe that God is REAL BIG on free will. His miracles are many but subtle, and all come with a free scientific explanation -- because if he simply manifested like George Burns on trial, then where's the free will? So why should things be any easier in the Gargoyles Universe. The Gargs believe in a God that is the sum total of all things. They are monotheists and animists all at once. I don't think that's inconsistent with Judeo/Christian beliefs, but I also don't think you're going to see any purely objective evidence on the show, ever. Take to the Gargoyles Universe what you will. And it should, if I'm doing this right, give you something back -- whatever you do, or don't, believe in.

Look, I know it seems like I'm blowing off your questions. I'm not. But try reading them with a fresh eye. They're almost impossible TO answer in a straightforward manner, because they are extremely complex, and yet they take for granted so many things as fact that have not been established either in the cannon or here at ASK GREG. These are all interesting topics and I encourage you to pursue them. But break your questions down. It'll help you avoid making assumptions.

By the way, what's a Vole?

Response recorded on June 29, 2000

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WereFox writes...

Greg

Even though her lycanthropy was induced by the eye of Oden, would Fox have been subject to the normal limitations associated with werewolves/foxes? Would she have had a vulnerabilty to silver? Also could she, and did she pass on her lycanthropy by bightring someone. I realize that we already have Wolf, our favorite mutate
Werewolf. What possible reason would we need another.

Greg responds...

I don't think so. Neither Wolf or Fox fit the traditional lycanthropic mode. Fara Maku and Tea are better examples.

Response recorded on June 21, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

In Huter's moon part three, Demona was going to cast a spell which would wipe out all life except gargoyles. But wouldn't she kill herself because, she would have killed Macbeth and she would have perished as well or would Macbeth be the only human alive? Would Demona's disease or plague have reached the shores of Avalon and killed tom and the Princess?

Greg responds...

Both these points are debatable. I've answered the first one before. (Check the archives for a fuller answer.) It would depend on her mindset. It's possible her survival would have kept Macbeth alive.

I think it's unlikely that it would have hit Avalon.

Response recorded on June 21, 2000

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LSZ writes...

Ok, I'll ask this again: Can a fae change a human or a gargoyle into an actual in-reality fae with all fae powers and weaknesses and so on, as big a species change as gargoyle-to-human?

Greg responds...

Erin says: I think you got a point there. I think you are right.

Benny says: I love this candy. [He's eating PEZ.]

Greg says: No. Where would the energy come from unless the fae were permanently relinquishing all his powers.

Response recorded on June 17, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

A couple of questions about the point during "The Mirror" when Puck had temporarily turned all the humans in the city into gargoyles.

1. What happened to those humans entering and leaving Manhattan during the time that the spell was in effect?

2. What effect did the spell have on live broadcasts from New York going out to other parts of the U.S. or the world during that time? As in, did people watching such broadcasts away from New York suddenly see the humans in those broadcasts change into gargoyles, or did the spell somehow prevent this?

Greg responds...

1. They automatically changed when entering and leaving the island. Because of the way the change was perceived, no one noticed.

2. Outsiders could have seen changes. But, hell, it's tv.

Response recorded on June 14, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

In the Gargoyles Universe, the fay are vulnerable to cold iron. Now, the obvious reasons for this are: a) they needed some sort of "kryptonite" to keep them from unbalancing things, and b) it's a traditional part of faerie mythology (and I'd read about that problem of theirs with cold iron long before "Gargoyles" came out, and even used it in an Arthurian fantasy novel that I'm still writing). But, did you ever develop a "within-the-story" rationale for why iron has such a drastic effect upon Oberon's Children?

Greg responds...

Fairie magic doesn't "conduct" through iron.

But mostly it was the traditional legend thing.

Response recorded on April 23, 2000

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WereFox writes...

Greg, you mentioned that earth is the well spring or source of power for the third race. They would need to find an alternative power source were they to leave it. What about existing spells?. If Macbeth or Demona ever left Earth in the coming centuries, would the various spells on them still be in effect. Is leaving earth essentailly pulling the plug on the power source that maintains their link of immortality or Demona's transformation.

Greg responds...

Well-spring and power source are two different things, of course. The fact that they can use the magic in the earth as a power source, doesn't mean it is their SOLE power source.

And human/gargoyle (i.e. mortal) sorcery is a whole different animal.

Response recorded on March 22, 2000

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Aris Katsaris writes...

Is there 'prophecy' in the Gargoyles universe? So far all the pieces of prophecy we've seen are either related to time-travel (Archmage, etc), or are ambiguous in nature (Weird Sisters in 'City of Stone', Puck in 'Future Tense').

Were the Weird Sisters (for example) making a true prophecy concerning Macbeth and Duncan, or simply saying something and then manipulating events so that it took place?

And was Puck aware that parts of his 'dream' would indeed take place (other than Alex's name ofcourse which he could have been informed of as Owen)?

Greg responds...

Uh...

Paragraph one, I don't understand.

Paragraph two, both.

Paragraph three, both.

Response recorded on March 21, 2000

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Scott Iskow writes...

On the subject of magical artifacts:

1) Demona was taking quite a risk in depending solely on the Praying Gargoyle to protect her kind from the fulfillment spell. My question: Did she have a backup plan in case it didn't work?

2) Is there a way (in the Gargoyles Univserse, of course) to determine the authenticity of a magical artifact before it needs to be used?

Greg responds...

1. Obviously not.

2. Sometimes.

Response recorded on March 21, 2000

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E.J. Kalafarski writes...

Hi Greg. Did you walk into the World Tour with the intention that Goliath would loose all the items the Gargoyles had been safeguarding? I mean, by the time the travelers got home, Goliath had lost the Grimorum (destroyed), the Eye of Odin (recovered by Odin), and the Phoenix Gate (lost in time). I realize the Gargoyles picked up the Guatemalan Medallion along the way, but was the concept of Goliath returning home with none of these items a conscious decision on your part, or just the way things worked out? Thanks.

Greg responds...

Yes. Conscious. That's why I had him guarantee that no one would ever use those items again. Arrogance, even heroic arrogance, deserves comeuppance. And I liked the irony that it was Goliath himself who first used the Gate and the Eye. No one takes either item from him. He chooses to use them.

Response recorded on March 21, 2000

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Michael Norton writes...

Is there any logical reason that Owen did not include a giant iron bell in the castle defenses? I know this would have ruined the drama of the battle. But it is hard to accept the fact that it never occured to any of the defenders during the battle with Oberon.

Greg responds...

I'm not sure that the bell solution is that obvious to Owen. I think it was very clever of Titania to come up with something that generally a fae would have little interest in exploring.

And where would Goliath and Angela found a big iron bell?

Response recorded on March 19, 2000

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Aris Katsaris writes...

I started to wonder about the 'Future Tense' episode...

1. What would have happened if Goliath had indeed given Puck the gate? After all he was dreaming the whole thing - would the real-life gate have just disappeared and been taken by Puck or something? Goliath waking up and finding it missing?

2. That thing about Puck not being able to take the gate, he having to be given it - is that again a law of Oberon's or something inherent in the nature of the Gate and/or fae?

3. And if the former, why when in other cases the fae could use just any flimsy excuse to bend Oberon's law, this one was so strictly interpreted that even 'Here you have it, take the gate' wasn't sufficient for Puck to take it?

Greg responds...

1. Goliath would have physically taken the Gate from his pouch, held it out and let go. Puck would appear to take it. All very real. But it didn't happen.

2. It's a law, but I don't know if it's Oberon's law.

3. I'm not sure that their excuses were that flimsy. We always made an effort to bend the laws with a real rationale.

Response recorded on March 19, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

You asked in a recent rambling about our responses to a number of the "permanent changes" in the course of the series. In the case of the ones that you cited, I can't really recall now how I responded to them at the time (for example, in the case of "Enter Macbeth", my attention was more grabbed by Macbeth's entrance into the series - particularly on account of his name, since that's always been one of my favorite Shakespeare plays - than by the gargoyles' forced relocation - and I was even more delighted in later episodes when we found out more about him and that he was *the* Macbeth).

However, I do recall two "changes" (if relatively small ones) that did startle me. The first was Owen's hand getting turned permanently to stone at the end of "The Price". The second was the destruction of the Grimorum Arcanorum in "Avalon", which particularly raised my eyebrows since that book had been around since the beginning of the series, so that I was astonished to see it go. (I might add that, from my subjective view-point, the end of the Grimorum came, in a sense, not so much when it self-destructed in "Avalon Part Three" as when the Archmage devoured it in "Avalon Part Two").

But when I did look back on them in retrospect, I found that I very much appreciated the changes. It was one of those things that gave "Gargoyles" a special feeling about it that I've so rarely seen in television animation. More like a televised novel, almost.

Greg responds...

Thanks. That was the goal. I figure, hey, S**T HAPPENS. And some things you can't take back. Yeah, sure, I wasn't gonna leave all the gargoyles as humans for all the eps after "The Mirror"; after all, the show wasn't called "HUMANS". And of course, even the loss of the castle wasn't permanent, as Goliath predicted.

But some things can't be changed. Demona can't take back the massacre. History is immutable. And the Magus... well, he's gone. That's life. And death. And everything in between.

As for the two specifics you mentioned...

I wanted to get a rise out of all of you with Owen's hand. It was designed to shock. It was also a bit of a clue. And it flat-out amused the hell outta me.

As for the Grimorum, it honestly felt played out to me. (How many stolen spells could we pull out of our collective hat?) But I wanted to give it a memorable exit. I thought having it swallowed whole by the Archmage was pretty cool.

Hmmm, "HUMANS"... Maybe there's a spin-off idea there...

Response recorded on March 17, 2000

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Llewwellyn Gaelfire writes...

Hi Greg

1. Would Oberon's Mirror work for doing the same sorts of magicks as Titania's (specifically the spell Demona used in "The Mirror" to summon Puck)?

2. If yes, then why did not Oberon simply yank Puck back through his mirror in "The Gathering pt1" instead of going after him?

thanks

Greg responds...

1. Yep.

2. Oberon does what he wants.

Response recorded on March 11, 2000

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Kar -kwannon@yahoo.com writes...

When Xanatos loses his "guinea pig" aka Hudson in "The Price" why would he allow Owen to test the Cauldron of life for him? Since Owen is Puck, and Puck being a Fey is naturally immortal what does this accomplish? If it worked Owen would be no different or did Owen set out to prove that it did NOT work?

Greg responds...

Owen is human. He can turn back into Puck. But that's his only magical ability. It was a legitimate test. Besides, what did X have to lose?

Response recorded on March 11, 2000


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