A Station Eight Fan Web Site
By the way, it was very kind of you to pass on SLG's apology even though none of the problems were your fault at all. It must be very frustrating to you, too. But as long as the property is still producing, we've come out ahead.
Hello again Greg,
I've been thinking about Greek mythology and the little glimpses we've seen of how it fits into the Gargoyles Universe (and hungering for more, of course! ;) ) I've gotten to wondering what books you've read about it, and which ones you liked the most? You've mentioned several times your particular fondness for Theseus (the bastard), and you and Todd have had conversations about favorite Arthurian books. Is Theseus your only favorite character in Greek Mythology, or are there any others?
I myself was first introduced to Greek myths as a child with the D'Aulaires book. I next read Edith Hamilton's book. Since then I've read bits and pieces of many books on the subject, but I've only read a few tragedies and the Odyssey from start to finish (I found the Odyssey pretty boring, at least in translation). So I guess I can't really say I have any favorite book on the subject.
Oddly, my favorite source for Greek Mythology I've used so far is not a book, but a website, www.theoi.com. (This will sound like an advert but I ~love~ this website) It's a very thorough collection of research and information about the Greek gods. It must have every god, spirit, monster, or giant ever, no matter how obscure. Perhaps this sounds strange (I hope it isn't presumptuous), but if you're ever looking for a great source about Greek Mythology for research, I think you'd find this website very useful.
What I like most about theoi is that it gives information in the form of quotes (translated of course) from lots of ancient texts, and provides all the different versions of each story and genealogy. Different ancient writers told different versions of the myths, and had different ideas about who was the son/daughter of who, but most print sources I've read only provide the most common version of each myth, or the one or two versions preferred by the author. So this is a source in which the information is minimally interpreted, so to speak, by intervening minds.
The big downside of this website is that it has almost no information about the heros and mortals, and even less information from archaeology. The webmaster is only just starting to add hero information. (I myself find gods much more interesting than heros, so I don't particularly mind). However, for the gods the information is excellent.
Theseus is my favorite character in Greek Mythology. I'll admit to having a fondness for bastards (in the literal sense) in literature/mythology. I'm fascinated with the archetype and its variations. Also the parallelism between Arthur and Theseus are quite startling to me.
The D'Aulaires' book is indeed one of my ALL TIME favorite books. Same with their book on Norse Gods & Giants. I still use both as a reference. Although I'm not generally a fan of Cliff Notes, I'll admit that their "Mythology" booklet is a VERY handy reference. I also have Robert Graves two volume book(s) on Greek Mythology, which has(have) been very useful. I've got a couple of geneology chart type books. But they're at home, and I'm at the office, and I don't remember the names of the authors or their exact titles at this moment. I've also read both the Iliad and the Odyssey. Probably liked 'em better than you did. A lot probably depends on which translation you read, I suppose. I might also recommend Isaac Asimov's Fantastic Voyage, a cool sci-fi take o the Odyssey.
I'm semi-familiar with theoi.com. I've used it on occasion. Though I guess I still prefer my books.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
After picking up her Halloween costume, Elisa encounters the Werefox in Mr. Jaffe's store.
You said in your FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) archives that Broadway and Angela would probably raise their children the gargoyle way, "children of the clan, not individuals," by not favoring biological children over the rest of the clan's children, but does that mean they won't identify their own biological children. I believe that if they didn't recognize their biological children, they wouldn't have been so particular about the naming of their own children (Artus, Gwenyvere, and Lancelot) after Arthurian characters in reference to Broadway and Angela's connections to Arthur, Broadway being inspired to read from hearing about the Scrolls of Merlin and Angela living on Avalon where Arthur slept. So, do Angela and Broadway recognize their biological children but attempt to parent all clan children instead of favoring their biological children, or is the naming of all their children after Arthurian characters coincidence?
You're assuming that Broadway and Angela named them. Facts not in evidence.
I know you don't want to go into the specifics of Samson's parentage because it doesn't matter in Gargoyle culture but from what I've read on GargWiki <http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/> about Canon-in-training characters, you've hinted that "Artus will most closely resemble Broadway and Hudson," "Gwenyvere may most closely resemble Angela and Demona," and Lancelot "may resemble Goliath to some degree." (Did they misquote you?) You've said that Samson would also resemble Goliath. Sense Lancelot, among Broadway and Angela's children, resembles Goliath the most, wouldn't it be logical for fans to assume that Samson is the son of Lancelot, who he probably resembles as they both resemble Goliath? You don't have to say if I'm right or not, just tell me whether or not my logic is flawed in some way.
Well, it's not that your logic isn't... logical, but of course it is flawed. I'm sure people in most families can point to someone who doesn't particularly look like his or her parents, but could be a dead ringer for old photos of a grandparent.
You said in the archives, in regards to the Guatemalan gargoyels, that "while the pendants are keeping them flesh by day, they age at the same rate as humans." If Zafiro II has the saphire amulet, how can he be the same age as Samson and Delilah if the pendant makes him age at the rate of a human, which is twice as fast as that of a gargoyle?
As more recent archives will indicate, I've since gone with the notion that the pendants magically compensate, and the pendant-wearing gargoyles age at a normal gargoyle rate.
Hi Greg, I'm glad the forum's back up because I have a question that's been nagging me. On the GARGOYLES 2198 CONTEST RESULTS Ramble, you said that, because Delilah II is part human, she feels "like she's not truly a part of either (species). Upon learning of her "heritage", humans seem to react with fear and even disgust. And Delilah has never been confident that the gargoyles she was raised with don't feel the same way." If Gargoyles raise their children without knowledge of biological parents, Delilah shouldn't know she's part human, as it would require her to know she's a biological descendent of the first Delilah. If gargoyles raise their children collectively, how does Delilah know she's part human. Does the Labyrinth Clan have different customs, having been originally led by Talon, a mutate that was once human and thus having founded the Clan on human customs? Or does Delilah notice qualities about herself that are human qualities and subsequently realize she's part human?
I'm mostly inclined to leave this to your imagination for now, but suffice to say the Labyrinth gargoyles are aware of their history and origins, making some things obvious -- independent of immediate bio-parentage.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos anticipates being released by October 31st, the date of his next pre-trial appearance.
Like Matt before her, Elisa questions G.F. Benton, unaware that he is really Dominic Dracon. She too heads for the old location of the Silver Falcon. Broadway is caught in a cave-in at dawn and turns to stone. Elisa is taken hostage with Matt by Tony Dracon and his henchman Glasses. When Tony fails to find the jewels Mace hid, Elisa bargains with him, offering to trade the true location of the jewels for her and Matt's life. That night, Elisa, Matt and Broadway manage to take down Dracon, his men and his grandfather Dominic.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
I'm glad to hear that safety measures have been put into place. Just to be more clear, my anger lies with SLG, not you, and I probably should have never posted the question the way that I did. Emotion overtook logic. I posted before knowing the facts and before your apology and felt awful about it, but what's done is done.
I would like to apologize about the hyperbole from my earlier post. Just to clear the air, factually, my friend has approximately 2,000 comics and has been collecting them for 15 years of his life. Also, I misquoted him earlier. He has also seen WAY worse errors, but he's never seen that specific error.
You are correct to say that the virtues of the issue and the series as a whole still outweigh the errors. It's going to take more than a one page error to make me walk away from this comic or Gargoyles as a whole. My friends laugh and shake their heads when I hang The Gathering fliers, but I still do it because I love Gargoyles, I love the comic and nothing is going to change those facts. Just keep writing 'em, I'll keep reading 'em.
And now... let's all just move on.
Okay, I did the math and considering how many levels there are in the Illuminati and the number of members in each level, there are 666 members in the Illuminati. Was that unintentional or is there some sort of Satanic thing going on in the Illuminati? If it isn't Satanic, what's the relevance of 666 in the Illuminati? If you won't reveal the relevance of 666 yet, can you at least say if the Illuminati is Satanic or not?
It was intentional, but that's all I'm going to say.
What happened to the helicopter Lexington modified from the episode "Her Brother's Keeper"? It wasn't destroyed at the end of the episode so why don't the gargoyles continue to use it? Did they dismantle it off camera. If not, what did they do with it?
They hid it. They generally don't have much use for it.
And personally, it's a source of frustration for me. We were ... shall we say... "encouraged" to put the helicopter in for Kenner. We jumped through hoops in that story to make it believable (to the extent that it is) and then Kenner never made that toy. I'm not saying it never existed, but I can't forsee bringing it back. Though that's not etched in stone.
While the notion of mists surrounding the skiff on its journeys from and to Avalon during the World Tour was something that the story needed anyway, to give the proper sense of mystery about travelling to Oberon's isle and back again, I've sometimes wondered whether that concept was also intended as a visual reference to the title of Marion Zimmer Bradley's "The Mists of Avalon". Do you know if the name of her book was an influence there (obviously not the book itself, since Bradley's Avalon is very different from the Avalon of "Gargoyles")?
I"ve never read Bradley's book. It was given to me as a gift, but I've been reluctant to read yet another modern treatment of the legend, so as not to color my own. Of course, I do know the title, so it's theoretically possible it influenced me, but I think it's much more likely that the choice was a pragmatic necessity combined with a cool moody choice.
I want to apologize about returning to the production errors in the final paragraph of my review of #6. I should have looked over the whole thing before submitting it, remembered what I had said in the first paragraph, and omitted the comment on the errors in the end paragraph accordingly. I'm sorry if I upset you, Greg.
No biggie. I was just cranky.
Clarifications on Elisa and relationships...
When I talked about Elisa flirting with Jason, that was acknowledging her actions in Hunter's Moon more than the comic but those actions impact what we see in Issue 3, where you are correct that they have stayed friends despite what transpired in Hunter's Moon though that's not in the comic. I should have been clearer about that.
And I never said Elisa flirted with Morgan, just the fact that she went on the date with him so quickly instead of taking a step back to focus first before doing anything after the speech with Goliath at the castle. Her actions just seem jumpy and rushed.
You'll probably still disagree with me and that's OK. I just want to make sure that you read me correctly.
No, I think Elisa's actions were "jumpy and rushed". She felt she had to demonstrate a change. I'm not defending it, but I understand it (or, uh, obviously I wouldn't have written it).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
Follow up to your question about Shari and Claw in my Issue 3-5 review:
Why I thought Shari and Claw should have left together is that the last time we see them in Issue 4, Claw is slumped over Shari's shoulder. Her reference is "And since Claw here isn't much of a storyteller, I'll go." The fact she is visually carrying Claw implies an intenet to take him as visual proof of what has happened, but she'll be the one to provide the words, especially given her emphasis on Claw in the panel's dialogue besides just supporting him physically. It certaintly wasn't required, I suppose, but somehow I had expected this to be what Shari would do.
Well... Claw isn't exactly a subtle visual aid...
I really enjoyed issue #6 even with the missing page.
Angela telling Colstone her assumption about his biological children seemed a bit forward, but that's part of who Angela is. Did she have any knowledge about who Coldstone was before she met him?
Coldstone's immediate reaction to the news of his son, as well as his later reasonings for attacking Goliath and company, seem to show some genuine care and concern specifically towards his biological child. That surprised me. When Goliath first meets Angela he expresses that gargoyle children of the clan and not of individuals. Angela feels the biological relationship carries more weight; probably influenced by the humans who raised her. Coldstone wasn't raised by humans, but by Gargoyles. (I'm assuming that, but it seems a safe assumption. Is it?) Why doesn't Coldstone have a similar view to that of Goliath? Did many others in the Wyvern clan share Coldstone and Angela's feelings or is it a small minority? Would/Could such feelings be openly expressed (in the Wyvern clan)?
Thanks for all the time you put into us fans. It's a really unique and special thing. Good luck with Bad Guys! I can't wait!
Presumably, Angela had by this time in the World Tour heard many tales of Manhattan, so may have known about Coldstone.
I'm not sure I agree with your characterization of Coldstone and his reaction to Angela's statements about Gabriel.
Hey Greg, long time reader, first time asker. I just had a few "behind the scenes questions about the new Gargoyles comic.
1) Have you ever considered inviting back writers from the TV series, such as Cary Bates or Michael Reeves to do guest writer shots on the comic?
2) Beyond drawing the covers, how much involvement does Greg Gruler have with the comic? For example, does he have any input on the design of new characters?
1. There really isn't enough money to afford to pay me to edit and anyone else to write. So as cool as it would be to have Cary or Michael, you guys are stuck with me.
2. It's inconsistent. Greg is a busy, busy guy. Mostly, David's been designing his own new characters, including Shari. Nir designed Quincy.
if a green and blue gargoyle mated would the hachling skin color be yellow
Why does that follow?
I got Gargoyles Issue #6 yesterday and just pre-ordered the collection of the first six issues.
It was a nice breather issue, well somewhat, they still got into a fight.
Thailog as a Roman having grapes fed to him, someone is getting a bit megalomanic :D
The world travelling trio ending up in a big cooking pot just to find out they are in an icy climate.
The Monks where interesting, I hope we see them again.
And did these monks belong to Shambhala or is the monastery in another place?
This particular monastery is not in Shambahla.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Officer Morgan is transferred to the 23rd Precinct.
Matt Bluestone questions G.F. Benton, unaware that the man is really Dominic Dracon. Matt follows a lead from "Benton" to the location of the old Silver Falcon speakeasy, where he's captured by Tony Dracon.
The Hunters trace Goliath back to the Clock Tower and blow it up. One of the Hunters pulls Elisa from the police precinct. She removes his mask and recognizes her new partner, Jason. He drugs her and leaves her in her apartment. Meanwhile, the explosion causes Maria Chavez to break her leg. The gargoyles barely survive, and Hudson and Lex are badly injured. Jon Canmore has the opportunity to destroy them, but he allows them to flee the Clock Tower. Unfortunately, Robyn forces Jon to blame the gargoyles for the Clock Tower's destruction on the television news. Now the entire city knows they exist and is hunting for them. The gargoyles hide out at Elisa's loft. That day, Elisa and Matt meet with Maria Chavez in her hospital room. They've discovered the Canmore siblings' true identities. Robyn breaks into Demona's vault, but Demona has already emptied it of everything but a computer disk. That night Goliath goes in search of the Hunters.
I was just curious as to how you went about choosing the villains for Bad Guys. Please note that I am completely pleased with the current Redemption Squad line-up, so I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. What was it about these guys that helped them make the cut, whereas other villains in the Gargoyle universe didn't make it? Where there some other villains who nearly got included but didn't quite make the cut? If so, who are they and why'd you decide against them? Feel free to volunteer any other interesting tidbits of information about how you went about picking the Bad Guys villains.
I've answered this -- and recently. Check the archives. Or maybe I covered it in a recent interview. Ask around the comment room. I'm sure someone'll know where to direct you.
Do you have any stories planned centering arounds Hudson? If so any chance you'd give us a rough idea of when we'd see it, issue wise?
Yes and no. Though Hudson gets a bit more play in upcoming issues.