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Lastly the hard one: I took a quick look through the waiting to be answered section, (mea culpa, I don't usually check that part, only the actually answered sections), and I saw a few questions about the recent terrorist attack and the Gargoyles universe. I too am wondering what your thoughts on it are. Forgive me for being presumptuous, but my gut reaction is that you would want to deal with it. Gargoyles never stayed away from difficult issue, and this one came to it. If and (hopefully) when the show continues in some form, and assuming Disney allows you to, how would you handle it? Until now you have said you are leaning to continuing the show post Journey and going through the intervening years at a quick pace. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious what year it is in the story, but the people who are interested would be able to fit it into place and know the time frame from the internet. Now the time frame will be obvious with the most cursory glance.
Aside from the logistics of fitting it in and when, is the issue of how. Gargoyles has it easier than your run of the mill superhero. First off, it happened in the morning, so there us no question of them having been there. (And the fact that so many characters in the show are cops puts us literally and figuratively at ground zero.) Second off, they are strong and they can glide, but they have no way of magically lifting building high stacks of rubble, or zeroing in on survivors under those stacks. They cannot teleport, or put trapped survivors in stasis until they can be reached. In short, they are little more than a few extra sets of extremely strong hands. Still, for a fictional story to save one more life than we have so desperately managed to save strikes me as somewhat offensive. With the heartache and heroism we have seen in the past few days, it is so hard to find the balance between doing disservice to a difficult issue by ignoring it, and doing disservice to that same issue by trivializing it. Not that it shouldn't be tried, In between the extremes is a major service art plays to humanity.
Personally the whole incident has been as bizarre as it is horrendous. Sometime in the middle of Rosh HaShanna I found myself praying I would turn the television after the holiday to hear they found even just one more survivor. I am sure many were doing the same thing, but I was praying that for the rescue workers, so that they would have something to help them go on. At the same time I still hadn't, haven't completely registered the event. The numbers are too big to compute. And yet, I saw the second tower fall from Christopher street, the closest the subway got to work, and knew I had to continue walking south to work to get to my non-telephone based e-mail to be sure I could contact the outside world and get word out I was fine and find out about all my friends who worked even further downtown than I, (not to mention getting word to cousins in Israel who are used to the calls going the other way). I was able to hear that all my friends got out unharmed by noon and began the long walk home. All along the way people had set up radios and televisions for everyone to huddle around and sort out what exactly had happened. I have always maintained New Yorkers are far more friendly and caring than we will admit, but now, it is obvious. By the time we reached the 12th street the people lined up to give blood filled avenues by Saint Vincent hospital. They had so many people asking to volunteer that we were told
to try again in several hours. My friend had chosen a bad day not to wear sensible shoes, and we were stopping into shoe stores all the way north to find her a pair of Keds without luck.
Of course, once I got back to my apartment, and later at friends, we watched amazing amounts of news. With exception of sabbeth and the holiday, I don't think I've gone more than 5 hours without checking it in one way or another. In the days before we were allowed to go back to work we switched off between the news and silly things. I saw The Princess Diaries, my boss admitted to a slightly more
serious movie, but not much more. Thursday the wind shifted and we could smell the smoke. The wind still mainly blows away from us, but every once in a while it turns north again and it smells as if the city decided to put all its ovens on self clean mode. But for the most part the weather had been bizarrely clear and lovely.
Since then we have heard stories of heroism and humanity. Instead of panic and everyman for himself, people were orderly as they made their long way down. Strangers helped, even carried, each other down the stairs. Hundreds of firemen, police and other rescue workers ran back in and up and most probably died in the collapse. Thousands are dead, but thousands were saved by human kindness at the most basic and heroic level. I have never been more proud to be a New Yorker. [And that isn't even dealing with all the people that flocked to NY to help, nor the war I feel we must fight and pray we are mature enough to handle as we have not been in the past.] Everyone here knows at least someone who lost someone. And you can't help but look out windows that used to see the towers, or just down the street, and see a surreal open skyline still full of smoke.
I can't see how any story set in this city at this time can ignore the events, yet I am still too close to know if it is possible to do it justice. I am a (supposed) adult who has had more exposure to terrorism
than most New Yorkers and have an ability 'get used' to new status quos quicker than many. You have repeatedly said that Gargoyles would remain child friendly, even if the topics became more mature. I cannot help but think that children are in even more need than adults to make sense of these events and how it changes us.
thanks for the answers, (and the chance to vent).
Laura
Laura,
I'm tempted not to respond at all. I'm not sure what I could say that would be even half as eloquent as what you just wrote. I know months have passed since you wrote those words, but today they have effected me deeply.
To answer your question... I just don't know. The plan to continue the series where we left off and speed through the years (keeping hard-core fans posted via the internet) made a ton of sense to me before September 11th. Now, of course, everything's changed. It's easy enough to simply NOT show the twin towers. If we're careful it just means we're not pointing the camera that way. And it could be before or after 9/11. But leaving it at that is something of a cop-out.
You've really hit the nail square on the head. How would I, would anyone really, deal with this topic respectfully in a fictional universe? On one level, I'd love to include it -- if for no other reason than to work out some of my own demons about that days events. As you said, the Gargoyles wouldn't even learn about it until sunset.
Then what? I don't think I'd have any of our regulars die in those events. It would seem to cheapen the sacrifices made by real flesh and blood people. Obviously, after the fact, I don't see how I could avoid having Elisa and the Gargs lend a hand. They wouldn't save anyone. How could I allow it? But just try to help.
But even that seems less than respectful. From my vantage in California, it's hard to see a way clear. Ultimately, this probably would never be a decision that would be left in my hands. But if it was, I'd have to take on a consultant (or two or ten). Representatives of all aspects of the event. People who were involved.
That's the best I can come up with now? It's all too hypothetical and painful to figure out in more detail.
But in the simplest terms if what you're asking me is whether or not the towers came down on 9-11-01 in the Gargoyle Universe, then the answer is yes.
When was Bodhe's son, MacBodhe, killed?
Hold on, I'll check.
1033.
Behold the following exchange (then skip to the bottom):
Received from pc-17.di.uoa.gr on Monday, September 17, 2001 04:52:03 AM
Aris Katsaris writes...
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
Greg responds...
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
recorded on 03-04-02
With all this in mind...
I know I've established -- both here and in my own head (particularly with regards to G2198) that eggs hatch on the Spring Equinox.
But does anyone remember whether (and where) I've established what month the eggs are laid in?
I can't recall if this has come up yet.
Anyone know? And would this solve my problems at all?
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
-------------
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
when was the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act signed? if you won't tell the exact year can you tell if it was within 10 years or so of 2198 or was it in Elisa's lifetime or somewhere in between?
I'm not saying right now.
1. Is Hunter's Moon a specific day or week of the year?
2. If so could you give us the date(s)?
In 1996, Hunter's Moon was on Saturday, October 26th. I doubt it's on the same night every year, since we operate on a solar, rather than a lunar calender. Anyone else know how this works?
Is Renard still alive in 2001?
I'm not 100% sure. Certain events between 1997 and the present are in a bit of flux, given that I haven't had a venue for stories.
in "Sentinel" when Elisa has lost her memory and Goliath is trying to explain things to her, he says that they have been friends for over a year. i would've thought that at that time it was around two years, am i wrong? have you gotten this far in your chronology? how far are you in the chronology?
oh, and what is the earliest date in your chronology of the Garg Universe?
They met in the fall of '94. Sentinel took place in the spring of '96. Over a year, right?
And I don't have the timeline with me here at home...
It's forever a work in progress, but it's 'done' for now.
I forget the earliest date. But the last date at the moment is 2198. I know a few things that happen after 2198, but I haven't set a date for them yet.
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
I've been through this carefully. But I'm at my Disney office at the moment and the timeline is in Beverly Hills. I'm fairly confident that I'm right about this. But I can't check your math or your premises here.
So I'm afraid, you'll have to ask this again if you want an answer.
I've enjoyed reading the G2198 proposal, but now I'm going back into the Ask Greg archive for a question. On 9/5/2000 you posted that the G2158 revamp forced you to go back and make adjustments to both DARK AGES and "Three Brothers." It also necessitated minor changes to TIME DANCER and clarified your thinking on PENDRAGON and BAD GUYS. (end of paraphrase) I can see where it would change TIME DANCER, but what kinds of things did you have to change in the other spin-offs? I'm not asking for specifics, just a general idea.
I had to think about the nature of Arthur's immortality.
I had to posit forward what happens to a lot of characters in a lot of shows.
I realized in doing more detailed math that Tachi did not hatch until after Brooklyn, Katana, Nash and Fu Dog returned to 1997. When they came back, she was still an egg.
Basically, I went through the entire TimeLine (all I know of it at least) from WAY, WAY back when to 2198. I literally went through every episode and assigned days and dates to every canon event in the 66 episodes I was involved in.
It took me a year. From G2000 to G2001. But the good new is that now I'm fairly confident that I got it right. When I have the timeline with me, which I don't at the moment, I can speak from real confidence about all this stuff.
at any time in history, lets say 0AD to 2200AD, were there ever wild garg beasts or packs of wild garg beasts running around somewhere? i mean like garg beast that were not attached to a clan of gargoyles, just on their own, or have beast always been domesticated pets of gargoyles?
By Zero AD they were domesticated.
Are the events in "Turf" and "Vendettas" ment to be happing at the same time? If they are, why wasn't Bronx with Goliath and Hudson in Vendettas and why were they gone for two night? If they wern't, why was it that Goliath, Hudson and Bronx were away two nights in Turf?
Also, In "Turf", why does Jack Danforth(is that his name) know so much about the Prison system and where Dracon was held? And what made Danforth want to join in the mob buisness? Don't the Feds keep a watch on their relocated witnesses? For that matter, why was Jack a relocated witness? What was he a whitness of?
Merci
The events depicted in "Vendettas" (not counting the 7/18/96 prologue in Scotland) took place between August 1st and 2nd, 1996. Though neither Goliath or Hudson made it back to the clock tower before sunrise on the morning of the 2nd. The events of "Turf" took place between August 2nd and 3rd. Bronx was having his own little adventure at that time.
Jack Danforth (aka Jack Dane) has been in the prison system. And he still has friends inside. He made it his business to know. Dane wasn't joining the mob business. He was REJOINING the mob business. He was a mobster who was at odds with the Dracon family and had (at some point) testified against them. The Feds were aware that Dane had un-relocated. But they needed evidence to bring him in. Elisa eventually provided that evidence.
What is the year, and month, that Brooklen starts, and finishes, his time dancing? What happens in the 5 minutes he is gone?
My current thinking is that Brooklyn vanishes in 1997. (I haven't pinned down the month.) And he's probably gone less than five minutes actually. Broadway and Angela (and maybe Lex) just have time to say something like, "Oh no, will we ever see our dear friend again?" (only better dialogue) before he reappears.
Okay, you'll need your timeline out, so please have it handy or don't answer these questions until you have it. Thank you.
In the Gargoyles Universe, what years were the following people born:
(all the original one's from the Arthur legends)
1) Merlin?
2) Morgana le Fay?
3) Nimue?
4) Gwenyvere?
5) Lancelot?
6) Blanchefleur?
7) Gawain?
8) Percival?
9) Galahad?
Haven't pinned a single one of these down at this time. Given that I have pinned down Arthur's dates, it wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate the rest -- if by too hard you meant weeks (if not months) of research and development.
If gargoyles evolved before humans and the fay, what did they to protect?
Each other, as usual, and whatever else was around. Also that long ago, I'm not guaranteeing that GARGOYLES PROTECT was the big slogan.
1) what year was demona hatched?
2) was demona biologicaly younger in 994 ad or 1040 ad after the deal with macbeth and the weird sisters?
1. 938.
2. 994. In 994, she was biologically 28. In 1040, after the bargain, she was 35 (Macbeth's chronological age). She still looks great though, doesn't she?
The Gargoyles were asleep for exactly 1000 years, was this 1000 years to the month? week? day?
The Magus cast his spell putting the gargoyles to sleep on October 1st, 994.
The clan awakens again on Tuesday, October 4th, 1994.
So it was just over a thousand years.
Here's a math question based on the list of characters' ages you posted a while back:
The Wyvern eggs were scheduled to hatch in 998, but they were taken to Avalon in 996. The two years remaining would stretch into 48 years, so the eggs should hatch around 1044.
Angela and the Avalon clan are listed as being 917 years old in 1995, meaning they hatched in 1078. That's a 34 year difference.
Even if their hatching was naturally delayed to coincide with the outside world, it seems that 1058 would be the closest year.
Could you explain where my logic or my math is off? I don't doubt what you've said; I just don't understand it. Thanks.
Good question.
Here's where you got off. The eggs were taken to Avalon on September 28th, 995. Not 996.
I was going to take another stab at the 2198 contest, but there are a lot of guesses in the queue and mine are already taken. There's a good chance that by the time you read this the contest will be over. At least I hope it is.
Someone had asked whether you would post your timeline here and you said you weren't sure what you'd do with it yet. It seems to me that it would make a good prize for the winners of the 2198 contest. It's just a suggestion; what do you think? If there are secrets in it that you still want to keep, you could award an abridged version of it.
Spoken like a man who's won the contest. No, the timeline isn't the prize. It's currently over 200 pages long. Just xeroxing and shipping it would be a bit costly, and yeah, it's got a few things in it that I'm not yet ready to reveal.
And who's got time to abridge it? Not me.
But I think you and Matt'll like the prize.
Todd, sent me your addresses. I'll e-mail you both after the Gathering is over.
Did gargoyles originate from Asia? Afterall half of the eight clans originated there and in east Asia there is about three clans presently living there meaning that there might have been a large abundance of gargoyles clans living there and also the people in Ishimura don't fear the gargoyles meaning that gargoyles must have lived there quite along time for the humans to get use to them.
I'm not saying at this time. But in any case, you're logic above doesn't wash.
The survival of three clans in Asia hardly proves anything, as each clan survived for very specific reasons. And every one of the seven old clans have been in place for centuries. And at one point or another, all got along with humans. The Ishimurans managed to maintain the relationship, but it hardly suggests or guarantees a geographic origin in Japan.
After all, two clans also survived in Great Britain -- a much smaller area than all of Asia -- so by your logic, we might assume that Gargoyles originated there.
But I'm not confirming any of it. Asia, Britain or somewhere else? I'm not saying now.
Greg, in a reply to matt's question you said Boudicca is older than Bronx. But how could that be since Bronx was with the rest of the clan in 994 A.D. and I'm guessing Boudicca is a beast which hatched with the rest of the garg eggs that were taken to Avalon? How could Boudicca be older than Bronx if this is true? I would not think that is should have to do with anything about how time passes more slowly on Avalon either, because logically Bronx would still be older or about the same age even though he was stone for a 1000 years.
Boudicca is biologically older than Bronx. Bronx is chronologically older than Boudicca.
Boudicca is the same biological age as Angela, who is approximately the same biological age as the Trio. (Though CHRONOLOGICALLY, the Trio is MUCH older.)
Bronx is chronologically twenty years younger than the Trio. Biologically ten years younger. Which makes him approximately ten biological years younger than Boudicca.
Whew!
oh, and also in the age of characters list you said that Yama is 29 and Sora is 19. their mates, and i thought there were never mates from different generations, Broadway and Angela being the exception. i figured that gargs mated among their rookery siblings because that way they wouldn't find a mate in a close (i.e. brother and sister) biological relative. so is it common for gargs to mate between generations? or are Broadway/Angela and Yama/Sora very different from the norm?
Broadway and Angela are a very unusual case for OBVIOUS reasons. (He was asleep for 1000 years. She grew up on Avalon. As a result they are nearly the exact same age biologically.)
Yama and Sora are atypical. But their love is not unheard of.
I don't ever recall saying that gargs from separate generations couldn't or wouldn't mate. It's just not particularly common.
The Children of Oberon who are the gods of legends thus they must be the first race and they are made of pure magic. The gargoyles who are the second race have some magic in them since they can turn themselves and their equipment into stone. While humans who are the third race can't perform any feats of magic unless they have a spell book. So my question is the magic energy on the Earth diminishing?
Faulty premise.
Gargoyles are the first of these three. That is, the oldest. They don't do any magic themselves. Turning to stone is a biological process. Turning they're gear to stone was a human magical spell, inflicted upon them.
Humans evolved second.
The Children incubated in magic and "evolved" third.
In response to Jim R.
Sorry to sound pompous
But our sun is a main sequence star and thus will never supernova. Our sun will as you say in about 6 billion years grow to a red giant and it may ingulf the Earth or it just may push the planets away from itself repsecting the relations ship of mass to gravity. The last stage in our sun's life will be the white dwarf and black dwarf stages and by then all life on earth will likely be dead. Except for Demona and Macbeth if they haven't killed eachother by now. Oberon's children will most likely not die either being that eternal beings don't die.
The timeline does not as yet extend out that far.
i was wondering how far you were on the revised timeline of the series and if you planned on posting it here when you finish. no pressure to get it done or anything, but alot of your answers to questions say things to the effect of: "Don't know, haven't gotten that far in the chronology yet." so i'm a bit anxious to see it...
I'm currently working on October of 1996 (though the entire thing is in flux until I've finished this pass -- which has to go through 2198 at least.)
As to posting it, I'm not sure. Haven't decided what I'm going to do with it yet.
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