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I've recently rewatched Awakening, and the scene where Goliath tells Demona that she can't kill an enemy unless it is "in the heat of battle" sparked a question in me: as of Phoenix, which members of the Manhattan Clan have actually killed someone?
Most have, in battle, in the tenth century. Angela hasn't. Egwardo hasn't. Nashville hasn't. Maybe Lex & Broadway haven't. But that seems unlikely/unrealistic.
Oh, and if you're counting her, Elisa hasn't.
I have a question about the Avalon Clan and their biological relationships to the Manhattan Clan. I am going to use the "placeholder names" for those Gargs that don't have given names in cannon.
Can we assume that Hudson does not have any biological children there because Hyppolyta, Broadway, and True are his only three offspring?
You've mentioned before that Angela is the only biological child of Goliath's, and she is no longer there, so none for him either.
Brooklyn had at least one brother, Brooksbro...was he and older or younger brother? If older, then there is a potential for him to have a biological sibling on Avelon...is that the case?
Does Lexington have a younger biological sibling on Avelon?
3. Brooksbro is older. (But Brooklyn had MANY brothers and sisters. Stop thinking like a human.)
4. No comment on whether or not Brooklyn has a younger biological sibling among the Avalon clan.
5. No comment.
6. No comment.
my question must have gotten deleted last time i asked this, because i cant find it anywhere. it was part of a post with a bunch of questions, but this one is the only one i really want to know about, so i hope this one wasnt the one that made it not go through
after his journey through time, does Brooklyn still consider himself a rookery brother to Lexington and Broadway?
also, since he is a generation older than Goliath, does he still consider himself his rookery son?
would he now technically be a rookery uncle to any or all three of them, and Angela?
if so, how does he view his relationship to Hudson, since they cant technically be rookery brothers? (like cousins mabey?)
2. He never did, so no.
4. He still sees Hudson as a mentor/father/grandfatherly figure.
Hello yet again, Mr. Weisman. Today, I'd like to talk about Gargoyles, particularly David Xanatos.
In relation to Xanatos' desire for immortality, I've noticed that, on two seperate occasions, an older, wiser man managed to pierce David's figurative armour through fairly simple methods (the methods themselves being simple, rather than the effect, meaning, or characters being so).
First, Petros, David's father, succeeded in giving his son pause through a few well-chosen words and "a simple American penny". Then, in "The Price", Hudson is able to discern and point out Xanatos' fear of growing old and dying (here, he cracks Xanatos' cool demeanor, but doesn't quite break it), and by the end of the episode, he had managed to escape Xanatos alive, simultaneously posing a question that, like Petros with the penny, gave David pause, and, I think, something to ponder.
Now, my point is that both of the aforementioned characters were, as I said, older and wiser than Xanatos, which makes me think (perhaps incorrectly; you'd know better than I would) that one of Xanatos' flaws is his inability to truly appreciate the values of age and experience, which ties in to his desire to be immortal.
However much he denied it to Hudson, Xanatos IS terrified of growing old and dying. It's something unknowable, uncontrollable, to a point, unpredictable (who knows when and how they're going to die?), and, barring a means of becoming immortal, it's unavoidable. The value of age and experience, as well as the wisdom that comes from it, is something that he, quite simply, does NOT want to learn firsthand. In fact, he even brushes off Hudson's descriptions of the downside to immortality, remarking that death and old age have a price, one too steep for him to pay. It is this unwillingness to accept his own mortality that makes Xanatos vulnerable to the metaphorical defeats he received from Petros and Hudson. The fear of mortality he possesses makes him blind to the wisdom that only comes from the passage, and indeed, the ravages (of which Hudson is all too aware) of time.
1) Do you agree with my assessment of this aspect of Xanatos' personality?
2) Is it possible that as he grows older, Xanatos will learn to appreciate the wisdom that accompanies age?
Whether you agree with my perspective or not, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post, and have a good day, sir.
1. I do. Very much so.
2. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
Despite everything that Demona's done, would Hudson still sacrifice himself for her if it came to it? Does he still consider her his daughter?
1. I think it would depend on circumstances. (As always, I'm not too interested in hypotheticals.)
2. Yes. A very naughty daughter.
Recently watched "Long Way Til Morning"
And this is hopefully the first question that leads to what I hope to complete soon as a long essay on how fascinating Demona is as a character as well as her impact on her estranged clan "family".
In this we see three characters. All with relatively strong familial bonds. First we have the Father, Hudson. Then of course the rookery children Goliath and Demona.
My actual question is this:
What had to be going through Hudson's mind during all of this? I know he acknowledged the two as a mated pair, but in essence he had to save his son from his daughter. That could not have made him all too plussed.
Secondly, the dialogue in this last scene really shows how even now, they still have latent feelings of being family...
Hudson: "Give it up girl, you can't win.." Which even as a boy, first watching this I always received as a Father being parental in some way to his daughter.
Then there is Demona, who is as bananas as it gets. She, even in her tirade tips her hand. She, through raw, volatile emotion expresses she still has love for Hudson.
"I would have ended this quickly! Your pride will cost you your life!" Even though I know at this point in her life she is past redemption, I still feel that the way she exclaims these sentiments is a tell she doesn't want to HAVE to say them. She loves her rookery father. And in a way, still NEEDS him. As all grown children do once we reach adulthood. But nothing can stand in the way of her vengeance. The vengeance for her murdered family. Not even surviving FAMILY.
All too fascinating Greg, and thank you!
Did Hudson influence Goliathâs decision at all as to who shouldâve been Goliathâs second in command?
If something had happened to Goliath before he had chosen a second in command, I would assume that Hudson wouldâve become leader at first, but then would choose someone else to lead since heâs older and believes that a younger leader would be best (which is indicated in the episode Upgrade). If this was the case, who would Hudson have considered becoming the new leader of the clan? Would he have based his decision along the same lines as Goliath, or would he have looked for other qualifications?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
Hudson and Goliath are two different guys... but I still think Hudson would have ended up choosing Brooklyn.
This discussion has been had in Station Eight a few times, and I thought I would bring it up here. It seems to me like one could make a case that Demona is the lead character in the greater story of the GARGOYLES UNIVERSE.
If one looks at "Dark Ages," "Gargoyles," and "Gargoyles 2198" as a three act story, Demona's story is the one story arc that really plays out through the entire timeline. She is there for all three acts.
Yes, Goliath is the lead in "Gargoyles" and Samson is the lead in "Gargoyles 2198." I think Hudson is the lead in "Dark Ages," but I might be wrong. And they all play huge roles, crucial roles. But Goliath and Hudson are not in Act Three, and Samson is not in the first two acts.
Demona, without being the lead in any of the acts, is the constant presence. Sure, she may not appear in "Pendragon," "New Olympians," Heroes of Ulster," and may only have a small role in "TimeDancer" and "Bad Guys." But if "Gargoyles" is the center of the universe here, and "Dark Ages" and "2198" are both acts in that story, it almost makes me wonder if this is really her story. You've got her youth, her fall from grace, her time as the main antagonist (or one of them), and then her eventual redemption.
Not to take anything away from Goliath, because I definitely agree that "Gargoyles" is his story and that he is the most pivotal character in that series. But is his story a large piece of her story?
I'm not saying it's all about her, because it's not. I don't think that or feel that, because this is all one huge ensemble piece made up of many stories, but like I said, she seems to be the most constant character out of all of them in the Big Picture. And all without ever being THE LEAD in any of the "three acts."
It's definitely an interesting theory.
Of course, I don't actually view the Gargoyles' Universe as any one character's story, including Goliath. To me it's a tapestry with many threads...
But I'm not disagreeing per se.
Hello Greg. Congratulations on clearing out that gigantic queue, and thank you for opening for more questions.
I have a question or two in response to answers you gave relatively recently here.
Rebel asked you if Lexington and Hudson got to watch the sun rise in London due to jetlag, and you said yes.
That must have been an awesome and memorable experience for them. I remember Hudson remarked at the end of The Mirror that he wished he could have seen the sun, just once, before changing back into a gargoyle. Goliath actually spent a whole day awake thanks to the Eye of Odin, but I don't imagine he's eager to describe that particular experience to the others...
I wonder about Brooklyn, Katana, and Nashville, too -- whether they ever saw the sun. Unless the Phoenix took care to deposit them during the same time of day that it plucked them from every time it moved them, they probably experienced at least some jetlag. For that matter Goliath, Angela, and Bronx must have had jetlag during the World Tour. Or did Avalon compensate for that somehow?
Avalon and/or the Phoenix compensates magically in a way that a commercial jet cannot.
Gargoyles and Politics
I know that you generally like to keep politics out of this site, which is why I hope that this question isn't too out-of-line. All the same, I'm very interested in the role that politics plays in the "Gargoyles" universe.
What, generally, are Elisa's political views? Does she belong to a particular political party? And does she discuss politics with the Manhattan Clan at all?
For that matter, how politically literate are the various members of the Manhattan Clan, particularly Goliath and Lexington? Do they read any political texts? For that matter, does Hudson ever catch "60 Minutes" or any similar shows on television? How much do Elisa's political views (assuming that she shares them with the Clan at all) color their political viewpoints?
I'd also be greatly interested in any information you would be willing to share regarding the politics of other human characters in the series, most particularly Xanatos, Fox, Matt, Renard, and especially Macbeth. For that matter, what does Demona think of human politics (I expect that I can guess the answer to this one, but still)? :)
If you can't tell, this is coming from a prospective Politics major who to some degree or another views all things through a political lens. If you wish to leave these things up to the viewer then I would completely understand, but any information at all would be tremendously appreciated.
Thank you very much for your time, and I eagerly await the widespread release of the two remaining Trade Paperbacks. I've been trying to spread word of them (and of the DVDs) in the Comments section of Gargoyles-related YouTube videos; every little bit helps, I hope.
Based purely on stereotypes of ethnicity and labor and location, I'd guess Elisa's a democrat.
I don't think politics is something that would attract Lex's attention much. I would think that Hudson, who prefers Celebrity Hockey to 60 Minutes, would feel lost rather quickly in political discussions. Goliath is all about the classics. I don't think Elisa's proselytizing much.
Xanatos seems like a likely Republican. At least fiscally. (Don't really see him or Fox as social conservatives.) Matt must be a Dem. Renard is probably a Republican. Macbeth... I don't think he's an American citizen. Demona... come on.