Entity (repost by Aris) writes...

This is (also) in response to Exolexy's commentary on the post-Avalon episodes. First and foremost, while I do not agree with Exolexy, I do not think it in good taste to make him an anti-fan; an object at which to toss glares as we hang on your arms.

With that said, I would like to say that the post-Avalon episodes had a very jarring effect on me, I believe similar to the one it had on Exolexy. I simply found things to be a bit overwhelming. "The Mirror" had been an early taste, but after "Avalon" things just skyrocketed.

Gargoyles had never struck me as that thick of a fantasy series before that point. My interpretation had been that the gargoyles were the sole fantasy elements, and that that was the premise: Fantasy creatures in a real world. But then the viel was brought back... and at first I didn't like it.

I was a sci-fi fan. Fantasy wasn't my thing. I couldn't grasp beings like Oberon, as it appears Exolexy wasn't able to. My science-fiction conditioned mind kept trying to compare him to Star Trek's "Q", like two puzzle pieces that wouldn't go together. 'If he's onmipotent, why isn't he noncorporeal?' I said. 'Omnipotence demands you be noncorporeal!'

After a while, though, I began to thaw. Then I began to re-watch. And with each re-viewing I came to appreciate the rich mythological and fantasy elements more. Now I couldn't imagine a Gargoyles without all of that.

In short, I owe my appreciation for the fantasy genre to Gargoyles. It was responsible for 'bridging' me over.

Aris Katsaris writes...

After a long delay I am now beginning again to repost much of what had been lost in the crash. Sorry for the delay.

Comment: there were a couple high-tensioned posts of Exolex, Lexy and me which I won't repost - my reason for that is that Exolexy made a comment which seemed to imply to me he wouldn't mind their deletion: if however any of you wants their specific lost comments reposted, just say the word and I'll do so: I'm not exercising censorship, just caution.

Aaron writes...

The caption. Must've been my imagination then. But thank you for the confirmation.

Of course, I goofed up anyway, since the prison is actually *Ryker's* Island, not Riker's Island. Must've been thinking of something else. ;)

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Not questions- comments:

I read your Leader of the Pack posting... as usual, I loved it. Thank you again for posting such things.

I think I remember being surprized by "Xanatos" under the helmut. At the time I was still blown away by one of my all time favorite tv lines; "Because Nietzchi is too butch and Kafka reminds me of your friends down there." {AND the close up on enough letters to recognize Sarte!} I know I was shocked to find out the truth. I thought little of Xanatos for going on a revenge binge, but modern tv has lowered my expectations. However I was stunned when Bronx went for "Xanatos' head", just shocked.

Oddly enough I thought the gargoyles flying away was a nice choice. Many other times there has been widespread ignoring of the "glide, not fly" principle. Here they circled around this unusual unexpected heat source. Under normal circumstances there might have been no way to get back in the air. Coming out to a place without sirious updrafts was a choice the gargoyles made because they had to, a ramiphication of Lex's hastiness. Showing them circling, using the fire to get back in the air, was a touoch of realism with interesting implications. Swimming would have taken away the open question whether they all could swim the distance, especially the part of Bronx howling as if he will drown. It would have been a more explicit version of the 'can't just fly' problem, but not an example of the gargoyles clearly using aor currents to glide.

MAybe I'm just rambling- it is late.

One other thought.
Now that the answers are coming in every day, and the recently answered page is actually moving, I find myself afraid I've missed something that came and scrolled off already, but reluctant to search the entire archive. Perhaps another page would be a good idea. A Relatively New Page in which newer messages, irespective of catagory, would sit for a set amount of time. Each message would automatically fall off the list in 30 days or the like. Just a thought.

Demonskrye writes...

Hi Greg,
I'm working on responding to your rambles on the individual episodes while spacing myself enough that you don't have to read a whole slew of them at once. Hopefully, I'll eventually be caught up enough that you'll remember the rambles I'm refering to.
Without further ado...

"The Thrill of the Hunt"

First off, I think the Trio tryptic was a good followup to "Awakening", since it developed the Trio much more fully beyond their comic relief teenager personalities. Though each of them stand alone well enough, they also fit together nicely with an "Innocence Betrayed" theme. Lex believes the TV version of the Pack is the real thing and gets a rude awakening upon actually meeting them. Brooklyn makes an attempt to fit in with modern humanity and is nearly killed. Broadway accepts the media vision of guns and ends up injuring Elisa. The Trio is discovering the modern world and it's not always a pretty picture.

I also appreciated the fact that Lex was right and in spite of the fact that the episode's events seemed to prove him wrong, Goliath acknowledged that Lex was right. Unfortunately, Goliath didn't seem to do much in the way of "seeking out kindred spirits" for the rest of the season. Though unless I remember wrong (which is entirely likely), Brooklyn uses the same term to describe the bikers he approaches in "Temptation". So maybe the task fell to him.

I love continuity. It's one of the reasons I was so addicted to "Gargoyles" when it was still on Disney Afternoon. And I loved seeing ramifications to the characters actions. I can't remember if I had expected Xanatos to be out of jail by this episode, but I know I appreciate that he wasn't.
And on the other end of the spectrum, we have the clashes between Elisa and Goliath over the status of the castle as the gargoyles' home. Kind of a sign of what was to come, slowly setting up the idea that the victory in "Awakening Pt 5" wasn't as final as Goliath would like it to be.
I agree, this was probably Wolf's shining moment. Much like the gargoyles, we weren't sure what he was capable of at this point. He seemed focused, a skilled hunter, and maybe even strong enough to take on Goliath. Later on, he kind of degenerated into more of a bully type; strong and not exactly stupid, but no strategist either. By the time "Vendettas" aired, he just seemed so inept that I could hardly take him seriously.
The Pack hype was fun. I didn't equate it with Power Rangers at the time, but I can see it now. It also adds to the idea of the gargoyles being from a completely different era that Lex would be completely taken in by something any human teenager could easily identify as so much special effects.
If I was going to compare this episode to "Temptations", I'd probably say that Fox is Lex's Demona. As a rule, Lex hates the Pack in general well into season two, but Fox is the one who seems to really get to him. Thinking on her feet, she dupes him into bringing Goliath to meet the Pack. And judging by his face after she stroked his chin, Lex was pretty well under her spell at that point. Having him so enthralled with the pack really sets him up for the fall later on.
Was that A "Beauty and the Beast" nod when the Pack are seeking out Goliath and Lex on a rooful of stone gargoyles? Or just coincidence? That particular film is one of my other great loves and I enjoyed the ocassional reference to it in "Gargoyles", Elisa's Halloween costume being the most obvious.

That should be all for me. Thanks for listening and thanks as always for helping to make such a fine show.

Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Comments on "Leader of the Pack"

When I first saw Coyote scaling the prison wall I immediatly said, "that is SO obviously Xanatos." And when he took off the helmet I honnestly thought you were running out of surprises, I was pleasantly surprised at the end. When Bronx leapt on Coyote and chewed his face off, I literally screamed "WHAT THE F---! THEY KILLED XANATOS!" Then as soon as he got off the ground, for a moment I thought he was still Xanatos and that he would acquire a Dr. Doom esque look to hide his disfigurement. Than he turned out to be a robot, and it all made sense. Than I bust my gut laughing at Hyena's reaction.

Did I think that Xanatos truly loved Fox, well to be honest, no. I thought they were like Boris and Natasha as lovers. But I did like the development in "Eye" and "Vows". Now, I did think that Fox was in love with him after "Brother", just something I knew.

You created two great characters there.

Abigail Thorne writes...

Quick comment on "Leader of the Pack." I had already figured out that Fox loved Xanatos from that scene in "Her Brother's Keeper." But I had no idea that Xanatos returned those feelings or that the two of them were an item--that last scene in the limo was an awesome surprise. I was also totally duped by the Coyote robot--I thought that was Xanatos. I had felt a little uneasy about Coyote's tunnel-vision focus on vengence, but dismissed it because the story was so cool and I was glad the show was back. But when you showed that Coyote was a robot, and that Xanatos clearly didn't care about vengence, it all clicked. Great surprise, great clue, great episode!!

Scott Iskow writes...

Re: "Leader of the Pack"

I have to admit, "Leader" wasn't one of my favorite episodes. In fact, it's near the bottom of the list, right above "Monsters." It did have some great moments, though. I loved the ending with Xanatos and Fox. I liked the scene between Hyena and Fox before they were sprung loose. I also liked the interaction between Brooklyn and Lexington.

But what I liked most of all was something I hadn't noticed until your ramble: The trickery. A lot of clever bits in this show had me fooled. For one thing, I never expected a robot to have to wear a suit of armor, which contributed to my believing it was actually Xanatos. Coyote is the first robot on the show to hide his face under helmet. In a way, it was wearing *two* masks: The helmet, and Xanatos' likeness. The whole show is laced with this kind of trickery.

Too often, I find myself able to predict what is going to happen on a show. It seems that too many of them follow the tired old conventions. Even "Batman," which started out new and fresh, sank into predictable patterns toward the end of its run on the WB Network.

I respect any story that can take me by surprise. Even if it's not my favorite one. In my opinion, that's what separates the talented writers from the ones who merely regurgitate ideas from a preset formula. I think the word for it is... "creativity."

Puck<40> writes...

O.o; just saw all those clan posts you had to look through. Some people have lots of time on there hands. <like I'm one to talk>. Anycase. 9.9; as so my useless comment won't get kicked. A sincere note of..
Thank you for giving us a show <with a little help from the evil hordes of Disney under the name of Buena Vista cause they didn't have full faith in the show>. And thanks to all the people who helped with it. And you for somehow having the weird mindzap to tap into a universe that is not of our own. :) Thats it. <runs of>

Bråndeewine writes...

Greg, your ramblings on "Leader of the Pack" were great. You are too cool. I may only be 23, but I remember Westworld too. :oP As for Fembots, well, I didn't see any machine guns sticking out of Coyote's "jumblies". :oP
*chuckles then sighs* I would really love to get my hands on all of those episodes. I suppose I'll have to go get a satelite....cable sucks anyway. Hearing you talk about the episodes, sounding like such a kid with the enthusium and vigor of one seeing it for the first time...well, it is truly captivating. I love your rambles. Man! What great eye-openers they are!