Twiggess writes...

Hi Greg! It's a shame, I know, but due to the unrealistic time Toon Disney has Gargoyles on (not that I'm complaining- i'm just glad it's still on @ all!) I have never actually SEEN the Reckoning. But i've read enough reviews and rambles and pumped my friend who HAS seen it that I feel confident enough to write a TINY little ramble.
I love Fang's lines in this one, and I would just personally like to thank whatever wonderful censor let "Kinky" slip. Cuz let's face it- she is. And I know he's kidding, but I for one would really like to meet his other friends who r 1/2 human 1/2 gargoyle babes. (hey-is this a hint at Delilah???) I'm sure Brooklyn would too :)
I really like the way you "killed off" Demona and Thailog. I'm not sure if you meant it to include this, but I see a lot of symbolism in it. Ah, the rollercoaster that is love, the ups and downs and the telling-her-to-marry-another-guy-for-his-money-ok-now-i'm-fed-up-with-you-now-meet-your-replacents, all ending in a big, beautiful fireball that is a breakup.
Okay. So I'm crazy. But this IS called a RAMBLE right? So it must be okay to get a LITTLE nuts. Besides, like I said, I haven't actually SEEN the episode. Until i saw some pics the other day, I thought they were fighting on top of A MOVING CAR, which is a lot better than wrestling on a track.
But still. I like my theory, and stand by it. I believe Greg has said many times that Thailog is modeled after the "Bastard." And now, he is a bastard in EVERY use of the word. >:) If God forbid my boyfriend ever cheats on me, I know what morbid fantasy I'm going to have first (only of course, he's TIED to the burning rollercoaster, and I'm pointing and laughing from a safe distance away. Am i being 2 morbid? Sorry)
Anyway,I really wish we could see a rematch....with Demona winning and then as soon as he's gone she starts crying. B/c she really thought she loved him.
Or better yet, get some info on who her NEW lovers are (Greg? C'mon, Greg, I know u hear me. PLEASE? Like maybe on Valentine's Day or your anniversary or whichever comes first? Before MY wedding, at least-FYI, i'm a minor-)
Anyway, really wanna see this episode, and it sounds totally awesome
Or, as Fang put it, "Better than soaps!" And just as edictive. ;)

Battle Beast writes...

Ah, The Reckoning. With your ramble, you answred one of my most pondered questions!

Anyway, I LOVE this episode. I've never seen it all the way through; I think it is the only episode I've NEVER seen fully (always came in right at the "tin can" line. But you mentioned that it was the fifth last episode, before possesion and HM?

I've always seen it aired AFTER Posession, though all other episodes were in correct oprder.

The Reckoning sets up the relationship between mother and daughter, develops relationships further between Talon and the Gargoyles, and shows us how naieve (SP?) Demona really is.

Demona didn't learn the Thailog was using her, even back in Paris; she still thinks he loves her. But then again Demona has a one-track mind.

I think Demona finally gets it when - enter stage left - Delilah is introduced by Thailog himself.

From what I understand, the idea of the "clan" was sacred back in 990 AD when there were clans in Scotland. Demona has been so messed up over the centuries so much so that if she calls a bunch of botched clones a "clan" then she really has forgotten what a CLAN truely is.

And of course the great delivery: "Ah, but it's a very clever tin can!" What a great line, like you said.

Tim Curry back as sevarious. Another great performance. His voice is so unique. And he does such a good job in the role.

"How many Gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" That made for a great contest. And some of the responses were way past funny.

It was quite clever to use Californian names simialr to NY names.

Great episode all around.

P.S. Comic's been sold out everywhere I go. Read it 8 or 9 times. Bought 2 copies. Keep up the great work. Better than the Origianl Journey.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "The Reckoning", Greg - and it's a pity that you had to wait half a year to get it up here. A few thoughts of mine about it.

One amusing little piece; when Sevarius started making the clones for Thailog, the first time that I saw this episode, I somehow was briefly expecting (from the combination of the robot mosquito and Sevarius's quip about "a growth industry") that Sevarius was coming up with some sort of giant insects - or something with insect-like components. (And, yes, the Clones make much better sense, especially when I discovered that the mosquito *was* a robot.)

I like the touch of Sevarius saying "Three down and two to go" - a nice subtle way of preparing the audience for the extra clone of Delilah.

One thing about the Clones' names; they reminded me a little of an episode in the first "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" cartoon where the Shredder decided to come up with some mutant frogs to counter the Turtles, and, echoing Splinter's naming the Turtles after his favorite Renaissance artists, named the frogs after *his* favorite historical figures - Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, and Rasputin. I found myself reminded of that with the Clones being named after Los Angeles features as a parallel to the names of Goliath's clan. (Do the Clones' names say anything, I wonder, about what Demona thinks of L.A.?)

I thought that Fang made a great comic-relief figure here - he certainly gets a lot of the best lines. (Regarding the "Kinky" line of his - he should have been glad that Demona wasn't in the same cell with him when he said that!)

It's interesting that "The Reckoning" should have been originally intended as the season finale, since Goliath's line at the end about "a new beginning for us all" sounds very appropriate to an open-ended season finale. But I think that "Hunter's Moon" made a much better season finale. For one thing, it brought in more of the major threads of the series that weren't in "The Reckoning" besides Demona (Goliath and Elisa's feelings about each other, the feud with Xanatos, and human hostility towards gargoyles). I hope that you'll get to ramble on those three episodes soon - after doing "Possession", of course.

Thanks again for the new ramble.

Laura 'ad astra' Sack writes...

I love it when Ask Greg reopens for questions! I know it'll be a few years before this gets read, but it adds to the vibrancy of the fandom.

Unfortunately I didn't get to the Gathering yet again- one of these days. Doesn't gall me as much as missing the last one in NYC, but at least I have my memories of the first two.

I looked through the new posts to see what others were saying about the comic. (There is less of a chance of saying something that has been said to death, but I don't want to lose the habit of checking first.) By in large the reviews are very good and I would have to agree. I couldn't get to my comic shop till Friday, but I read it and went through it with a fellow fan in great detail on the phone before sundown. (The rest of my weekly reading had to wait.) I won't say it was perfect, I had some serious concerns, but I was really happy.

First off, I must note this- The back says that the colorist is new to the field- what a fantastic start! There is nothing there that even hinted to anything novice like.

I have to be a little harder on the artist. It almost seems like the style switched halfway through. The first half struck me as more stylized, a little reminisent of craypas or those sidewalk chalk artists that wow you with what they can do. The second half was looser, even letting you see the pencil marks. My druthers would ask for the second style. The artist seemed far more comfortable with it. While the first page and sevel other panels throughout the begining were beautiful, other were rather awkward and boxy, especially in the none action scenes. (The artist drew some just plain fantastic fantastic action sceens.)

I did have a small quibble with the text...(though I feel like slime mentioning it here). Some of the lines that were lifted directly from the show didn't flow as well without Keith David's sonority. Goliath's formal speaking style sometimes needs that resonance. I have no fear of that being a problem in later books- all the sceens that started life in print read just fine while still conjuring that voice. I loved Goliath's 'discussion' with the shotgun wielding man. Though I have to ask- who has a shotgun in NYC?

Looking forward to issue 2- I do hope that independant Publisher doesn't mean Independate time frame :}

Blaise writes...

TURF

I knew that at some point the Trio would fight over Angela, and I was kind of worried about how much dignity they would lose in so doing.
I suppose I was more disappointed with Brooklyn's behavior than with Broadway or Lexington's. After all, he is my favorite character, and I think anyone would find it aggravating to see his or her favorite character behaving like a goofball.
Not to mention the fact that he's Second-in-Command, and therefore should behave responsibly and competently in his office. The first time he splits them up so that he and Angela can be alone...well, if he really tried, I think he could have waffled a decent rationale for that decision. The second time however was just plain silly of him. ONE gargoyle at the Clocktower to wait for Goliath might have been wise, but not two of them.
However, more than all of that, when I first saw this episode, I had seen neither THE CAGE nor KINGDOM, and thus had no idea what had happened with Brooklyn's crush on Maggie. The resulting lack of closure actually made Brooklyn's behavior here seem even more annoying to me (crush or not, I couldn't believe Brooklyn would be as shallow as those "Well, hello...and good-bye!" guys from Saturday Night Live). Seeing the episodes in their proper airing order fixes this, of course--Brooklyn has effectively closed the book on the Maggie possibility, and now here is a REAL female gargoyle to court. HOT DAMN!
All things considered (1,000 years without a date) I suppose it's not unrealistic that each of the Trio would go overboard in trying to impress Angela and outdoing the other two. If only they realized how foolish they were looking instead (though I still love the brief bit of posturing they do in the Clocktower--Broadway actually sucks in his gut!).
The bit with them flying into the water tower (or whatever) was worth a chuckle as well. And "muttonheads?" You just don't hear enough people called that anymore. ;-)

In all of this I haven't said word one about the Brod-Dracon turf war. It is what it is, I suppose, the gangster side of GARGOYLES never particularly interested me.
I was surprised to see Brod reappear. Danforth, too, for that matter. I had figured both of them to be one-shot characters (yes, even at this late date in the series, I expected one-shot characters).

I have to wonder what the Witness Protection Program's reaction(s) will be when they learn what ol' Danforth has been up to. Seeing as how Jack is willing to give up a fairly safe and stable life as "a retired banker who likes to spend his afternoons in a health club" to help Brod beat Tony, he really must HATE the Dracons. I wonder why....
I would have liked to see a conversation or something between Jack and Matt--just a reference back to REVELATIONS or something. I just think it would have been nice.

As for Brod, yes, he is audacious. Not just for breaking into prison, but for trying to restart his criminal empire in New York City of all places. No starting small for this guy--go right for the big time!

I had no clue Salli was Elisa until she took off the wig. At the end of Act 1, I thought Salli was a separate character and saw this episode going off in a whole different direction (I'm not saying what direction exactly since it might break the submission rules).
It's interesting to see how she tries to balance her duty with her act--her attempt to reason Brod out of attacking Dracon is a nice example of this (and it's fun how her arguments are so quickly dismissed).

RANDOM THOUGHTS:
-Dracon and Glasses have a frank discussion about the turf war (with Dracon yelling at one point) and there's a trio of guards nearby. I always wonder just what they might have overheard (of course, the guards look like they're having their own conversation, so probably not much).
-Brod eats with his mouth full. Well, I guess manners aren't the most important part of being a gangster, anyway.
-The guy who goes crazy in the police station was the mugger Broadway attacked back in DEADLY FORCE. He also appeared in GOLEM as part of Brod's gang, and he even appeared earlier this episode on Brod's hovercraft. That guy gets around, doesn't he?
-For some reason, I love Elisa's reaction to Angela's, "boy trouble." She actually seems kind of amused by it.
-It wasn't until my viewing before this last one that I noticed Elisa looking at the payphone. I thought it was a nice touch and don't know why I missed it before (maybe my attention was focused on Brod).
-Were Dracon's men firing particle beam rifles? They looked and sounded like actual bullets to me. The guns did have stylized designs, I guess. No comment on the "selective penetration" of the guns (i.e. celing, but not seats).
-I love Pal Joey's taunt to Brod on the train top--just something that struck me.
-I'm similarly struck by the calm way Glasses is able to face what could be his own death. He has a lot more composure than Dracon does later on (of course, Glasses has an "out" while Brod stops to think).
-Poor Lexington--Brooklyn and Broadway are both busy helping Angela, so the little guy has to stand up all by himself.
-Interesting thing: Brooklyn says that he's the one who rescued Angela. I paused my tape at the actual rescue (yes, I am that lame) and I clearly see Broadway as the one who grabs Angela. Was this another case of communication breaking down between the writers and animators, or just Brooklyn himself attempting to ret con the last few minutes?
-"STOP CALLING ME ANGIE!" A funny moment, but I must admit I never realized, until you mentioned it, that Broadway did not call her "Angie" at all this episode. He was also the only one that attempted to reassure her when she was worried about Goliath. I guess some of the seeds were already there (just subtle as hell).
-Elisa/Salli: "We can't just break into a maximum security prison."
Brod: "Why not?" He asks this while gesturing to the sizable armory at the rear of his hovercraft. I find it funny. :-)
-"Sergeant, we've got a problem." I love the Tower Guard's reaction to the hover ship. I wonder if that guy got hurt jumping out of his tower like that.
-Brod seals the only entrance to the cellblock. Now, how did he plan on making his getaway? Have his hover ship blast a hole in the roof?
-I may not be a big fan of "Rocky and Bullwinkle," but that "Easy as shooting moose and squirrel" line would have been GREAT. I can grudgingly understand the S&P objections to the "Good thing we weren't facing Queens" line, and I prefer Puck not to break the fourth wall, but THIS line should have been in the show!
-Dracon revealing Elisa's identity strikes me as a "If I'm going down, I'm taking you with me," moment.
-I loved the two different distinctions Brod and Dracon give the gargoyles.
-The penitent Trio apologizes to Angela, and she gives them each a kiss (corny, perhaps, but I think there's some unspoken law that heroines in ensemble action shows have to give a peck on the cheek to all the males interested in them). Of course she also mentions all her sisters, and that makes the Trio even happier.
-Dracon and Brod as cellmates would never be allowed officially, but I could see a couple of mischievous guards engineering a temporary co-habitation. My brother (who saw this with me) was of the opinion that, given their differences in builds, Dracon needed to make the first punch.

All in all, it's not a bad episode, but it's always difficult for me to see Brooklyn embarrass himself like this. Oh, well.

And with that I should be caught up with the Rambles. For now, anyway.
I'm already looking forward to the next one!

Blaise writes...

VENDETTAS

When this ep first aired, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it.
We had Wolf going after Goliath and Hudson along with Hakon-in-an-axe, and some other guy along the fringes as just comedy relief (these are my initial impressions, mind you). Nothing much more than fighting goes on, along with the revelation that Wolf is Hakon's descendent (and I may be alone, but I rather like that connection).
Regardless, the end made me laugh out loud (and I loved the in-joke of Vinnie humming the theme song).
Over time, I've come to view this episode as being perhaps the most problematic of the series...but I enjoy watching it.

I agree with you on the inherent problems of the piece, Greg. The animation was disappointing--the fight scenes were serviceable but not really involving for the most part, and some comedy was nearly lost. It took a couple viewings before I noticed that Goliath elbowed Hudson in the face while preparing to hit Wolf--the hits occur too quickly for the joke to really pay off--and the second time Goliath nearly elbows Hudson doesn't read that way to me (it just seems awkward that second time).
Then there are the missed opportunities. The mace, of course, is the biggest. As nice as the "battle-axe night" line sounds, I'd rather have the mace. Actually, there could still be a fun line put in there, I think. Maybe not "mace night," Todd's right that doesn't have the same ring to it, but Wolf doesn't strike me as picky about specific terms for melee weapons. "Tonight is CLUB night" would have a nice double meaning to it, or "Tonight is WARHAMMER night" (probably please fans of that old pen-and-paper RPG of the same name). Sorry, I digress.
And yes, I would have liked more resonance to Hudson's battle with Hakon. You get a *little* of "Hudson taking revenge" when he gives a little chuckle as he leaves Hakon trapped in the crusher, but I would have liked more. Love the "clan-slaughterer" title, though.

These complaints aside, I rather enjoy the episode. Vinnie actually helps. It's nice to see what happened to a supposedly "random" person due to the gargoyles' actions. I raised an eyebrow at ret conning him into the role of "big nose" on Air Fortress 1, but I was willing to shrug my shoulders and go with it. I had not seen THE CAGE when I first saw VENDETTAS so the bit with Sevarius getting kidnapped left me mystified and frustrated (it did not stop me from thinking Talon was the kidnapper when I finally did see CAGE, he and Goliath have *very* similar silhouettes).
At any rate, I did like the idea of a "regular person" taking on the gargs. Losing his motorcycle and TWO jobs as well--heck, I'D demand satisfaction for that, too! And I believed Mr. Carter was a real gun (loved the Acme reference, BTW--didn't get the "Kotter" reference because that was before my time). Of course, neither Vinnie nor his gun is quite "regular." Vinnie explains himself (justifies himself, I guess) to Mr. Carter, earning stares from people passing him on the street. Vinnie doesn't seem to notice, though. Of course, not paying attention is what gives him such a difficult night to begin with. My favorite is where he tells "Mr. C" about the second job he lost and then turns around the corner and is surprised that the gargs are gone (as though the world stops when he reminisces). I guess this is part of your point on vengeance, Greg; Vinnie is so wrapped up in "creaming" Goliath--"the Big One"--that he doesn't notice imminent hurt/humiliation until it happens.
But he does not give up! When all other foes are defeated, Vinnie is still the last man standing! I'll come back to him before the end.

On to Hakon and Wolf. I didn't immediately cotton to Hakon being the axe. I noticed it laughed in the car and sounded similar to Wolf, but only when Hakon appeared as himself at the end of Act 1 did I realize who it was.
And Hakon has a LOT of powers. I guess it's a combination of being around for 1,000 years in a magical cave, being full of hate, and possessing a blood descendent that allows him to do what he does with Wolf's body. Flight telekinesis, disappearing, illusions (Hudson sees Goliath as Wolf), and the ability to become insubstantial…I wouldn't mind being able to do that! Hakon was right; Wolf was a fool to give up that power before the gargs were defeated. Of course, Wolf's always been a bit bull-headed about doing things his way and being in charge.
I had no problems with Wolf being descended from Hakon. Quite the contrary, I saw a wealth of opportunity in this development. Of course, Wolf and Hakon don't specifically tell anyone but the audience about this connection so I don't know how anything would develop. But the seed's there.

One interesting point that's made about vengeance in this episode: sometimes, the feelings of vengeance are not mutual. Hudson views Hakon as the ultimate evil, but Hudson barely matters to Hakon--the old gargoyle is just another obstacle to get to Goliath. To Wolf, Goliath, the "alpha male" gargoyle, is the ultimate target, but I somehow doubt if Goliath views Wolf that way. He views Wolf as a powerful and tenacious enemy, sure, but I don't think Goliath singles Wolf out from the rest of the Pack as a "prime" foe. As for Goliath and Hakon, yes there is resonance there, and in the past Hakon was definitely a focal point of Goliath's vengeance, but I think after SHADOWS OF THE PAST, Goliath's enmity for Hakon is no longer as strong. Hakon on the other hand, has lost no hatred for Goliath.
And none of them have any clue that Vinnie even exists until he walks right up to Goliath and shoots a pie in G's face.

That last part still puts a smile on my face. I had not expected the pie, but in a way it makes perfect sense. Why would Vinnie want to KILL Goliath? The gargoyles have humiliated Vinnie multiple times, cost him property and two jobs, but he's still alive, in good health, and not TOO badly off if he can afford Mr. Carter. Based on that, a pie in the face seems a reasonable retaliation.

One bit of dialogue I rather like in this episode is this one:
Wolf: "Come on, are you afraid to die like a man?"
Goliath: "What would a mutate werewolf know about being a man?"
That, coupled with the scene of Wolf scrounging for food in a dumpster, show just how far this former TV idol has fallen. And all just to get Goliath.

I find Hakon's "death" an interesting contrast to the Captain's back in SHADOWS OF THE PAST. With the Captain it was a feeling of peace and ascendancy. Hakon's seems more violent (I love the little electric bolt at the end). It makes sense to me.

I hadn't realized this epsiode had a different voice director until I saw the credits. Honestly, there was no decline in quality so far as I could tell. So take a bow, Greg. And if you see Clancy Brown, tell him to take one, too--he differentiated between Wolf and Hakon very well.

So VENDETTAS, while obviously problematic, is still fun for me.

Blaise writes...

THE GATHERING, PART TWO

I'm having a difficult time figuring out where I want to start with this episode.
The revelation of "Owen-is-Puck" is, of course, the high point, but I also find myself thinking about the battle with Oberon.

Oberon is, without a doubt, the most powerful adversary the gargoyles have ever had to face--and this time he's at full power! However, I find his more subtle uses of said power to be the most effective. I mean, he became a giant and while that's definitely threatening and awe-inspiring, it didn't help him much in any practical sense. But when he actually calms down ("Anger...clouds my judgment.") he really does become unstoppable. Even drained and withered, he proves more than a match for our heroes. The thing with the cape absolutely rocked, of course, but my favorite trick is when Goliath leaps at Oberon...and goes right through him (a trick that will be repeated in VENDETTAS). Oberon then hurls Goliath with a gesture (and a pretty cool line, "This altercation is OVER."). Even at the end, Fox's magic blast doesn't stop Oberon by overpowering him (in fact, when he comes flying back in he seems about ready to kick everyone's ass and take names--actually, I find his "I...have had...ENOUGH!" kind of funny as well as foreboding). In the end, Oberon isn't really defeated...he just changes his mind (thanks to said magic outburst and some choice words from Goliath).
One thing I really thought about here was that, despite banishing Puck and giving a rather curt/foreboding farewell, Oberon seems willing to let bygones be bygones. Partially due to your thoughts on Oberon, Greg, I've actually started to see the more magnanimous side of Ol' Blue Skin.
Over the years, I've come to think better of Oberon than I did during the initial airings. Now I think he's pretty cool.

This viewing, during the gargoyles's battle with Oberon, I noticed how quickly Lex and Hudson got taken out. Especially Lex, he didn't get off a single attack. At least Hudson got to whack at Oberon's hair with his sword (for all the good that did).

I can see one of those "cartoon" moments you mentioned, with Oberon swatting at the gargoyles like flies. I actually think it works as a "comic relief" moment before Oberon brings the statues to life.

That "stone figures" bit was actually pretty cool. Unfortunately, I liked the guy with the hammer and he destroys himself to take out Broadway (speaking of which, for Broadway that must have hurt!).

Count me as another who loves Xanatos's weak attempt to cover his saving Broadway.

"It's incredible how often that move works." I LOVE inside jokes like that.

The Iron Clan was a nice variation on the Steel Clan. I mean, we (my brother and I) knew they were bulkier than the SC, but only occasionally did I really notice just how much BIGGER they were (during the chase down the side of the Eyrie Building, you see a now human-sized Oberon go by, followed by the Cybots and a gigantic Iron Clan robot). I'm also absurdly pleased by the "launching points" for the Iron Clan...it makes me wonder how much of the buildings surrounding the Eyrie Xanatos owns or rents.

I loved seeing Renard come to the rescue. Renard sounds stronger here, to me, than he has since OUTFOXED. His words aren't as broken apart as they were even in PART ONE. I like this touch. I'm a little sad that the last we see of Renard in this is "I've failed him." It would have been nice if he were a part of the little "victory celebration" at the end. Heck, it would have been nice if Petros could have been a part of it--and his exit wasn't as dignified as Renard's. Petros just got knocked out and forgotten.

I always figured that while the iron harpoon hurt Oberon, the iron bell would basically rip the very fabric of his being apart. After all, at the right pitch, sound can shatter glass.

And finally we come to the big revelation. Any disappointment I felt at my brother being right was curtailed by my delight at this excellent little twist. And Puck's explanation for playing the straight man made perfect sense to me.
When I first saw Vogel, I thought he was just an in-joke, even after he became a character in his own right. Little did I know you guys had strong reasons for his similarity to Owen.
It still surprises me that Puck actually had his creations rough up Oberon. Dang, but the little guy's ballsy.

I just love "Oberon does not compromise...Oberon COMMANDS!" Mostly, I love it for Terrence Mann's reading of it. It's just...wow.

We all kind of figured that Fox would display some magic at the end. It was practically a given. However, Puck's reaction to it (which you've already quoted) is priceless.

I was a bit surprised when Oberon banished Puck. I have to admit, I hadn't expected that. And I actually kind of felt sorry for the little elf afterwards, but...he did kind of ask for it.

I was surprised and pleased when Xanatos thanked the clan like he did. Of course Goliath (ascribing to the "Fool me once..." school of thought) is suspicious. I like the actual sad look on Xanatos's face when Goliath snubs him. But then Goliath smiles as he talks about "the transforming power of a child's love." Xanatos may have been the "main villain" for the first season and most of the second, but already that title doesn't fit him as well as it once did.

Other little things:
-I love Oberon's exasperated "Now what?" when the Air Fortress shows up.
-I also liked seeing Oberon's giant footprints in the street (who's going to explain THAT?).
-You guys had Petros notice Oberon's "shrinkage." Only after we the audience had seen it happen twice. I like that, although the characters notice something quickly, they don't see it the instant it starts to happen.
-Hudson's "You've had quite an influence." I find Ed Asner's reading of that intriguing. I like it. I can't say why...it just struck me.
-After having been a major part of the World Tour, Bronx just sits this one out. He probably missed his soup bone.

I'll admit, I believed Titania when she indicated things had gone according to her plan. I don't know what she whispered to Fox (and have never asked), but I do start to see Fox smiling before the camera cuts away.

And yes, Greg, this is the first, last, and only time that Broadway calls Angela "Angie."

Okay, I think that covers THE GATHERING. Next...

Blaise writes...

THE GATHERING, PART ONE

Hey Greg! Good to see you rambling again. I'm going to have to do a little mini-marathon to catch up, so without further ado....

When this episode first aired I had figured that this would be the ep when the Travelers (finally) got back to home base and the rest of the regular cast. I, for one, was looking forward to this, if for no other reason than to see more of my favorite character (Brooklyn).

Seeing the Gathering on Avalon was a nice little "curtain call" for the many supernatural beings the Travelers had encountered on the World Tour. Other than those we had met, Nought definitely had the most striking design (it also helped that he was pretty well featured for a walk-on).

I agree with you about Anubis--he should not be laughing. That part never seemed quite right to me.

It amuses me how, when the Banshee and Odin are fighting, Oberon at first enjoys the action immensely, but as soon as his mirror is nearly damaged he calls an end.

I may be alone in this, but I don't feel too sorry for the Banshee--she was a bit of a pain.

Selene (sp?) is in full fury mode here (I love her eagerness in offering to hunt down Puck).
I also enjoy Princess Katharine's reaction to Oberon contacting her magically.

I've always wondered what Renard thinks of Petros Xanatos. I'd imagine that they might have got along well enough, despite Renard's enmity towards David.

I hadn't figured out Titania and Anastasia were one and the same until Anastasia started talking. Only here did I recognize them as both having the same voice actress and draw the connection.
Of course I didn't get the Owen/Puck connection (or refused to--I'll explain later).
I, too, loved Vogel's reaction to Petros' question about him being related to Owen (an honest question if you ask me).

The child is born. And (for those of us who read the credits of FUTURE TENSE) we already knew his name (and what he'd probably look like all grown up).

Watching the bit with the jogger pouring out his drink after his "hallucination" this last time, I felt myself thinking that, while it's a nice old gag, I'd kind of like to see it with a new twist. For example, instead of pouring out the offending substance, after seeing the supposed hallucination, the subject instead smiles and starts chugging it.

The hypnotized guard is funny. The late Charles Hallahan did a great job with both that and Travis Marshall's snide "...both of them ex-convicts..." line. Great copy and great performance.

The confrontation in the Xanatos' bedroom was very well done. Oberon's reaction to Fox being Titania's daughter is, of course, a high point, but there are smaller things that stand out to me as well. Seeing a young and healthy Renard is a plus, and I love that Fox visibly reacts to seeing Xanatos' gun behind his back (it's small and if your attention is on Xanatos you wouldn't notice it).
As I was watching this time, I thought about Oberon's lines about how Xanatos should take comfort in having "fought admirably for [his] child against impossible odds," and that they have an hour to say good-bye before he takes Alexander away forever because Oberon is "not without a heart." These lines, looking at the words alone, are essentially making things more painful and frustrating for the Xanatos' (insult to injury, as it were), but Oberon does not intend them that way. He's actually being honest, maybe even paying compliment to them, and (in his own mind) is being nice about the whole thing.
In a way it reminds me of Xanatos' line to Derek in THE CAGE--"He's the scientist, you're just the experiment." Xanatos wasn't trying to hurt or insult Derek with that statement, he was just stating the fact of the matter. Similar to Oberon here, the words used by the speaker seem more hurtful than the speaker's intent.
I suppose all this is just a roundabout way of saying Oberon really is Xanatos' comeuppance. :-)

THE TRAVELERS FINALLY COME HOME!!!
Man, I was so happy to have them back on home territory and ready to get back to stories with the rest of the regular cast in their given setting. The World Tour was a nice way to expand and show more gargoyles, but there really is "no place like home."
When Goliath is telling about all the gargoyles around the world he sounds positively giddy. He's even SMILING! Of course he's been smiling since they got back, but here...it's just that seeing Goliath this happy is a bit uncommon.
The Trio of course has their first introduction to Angela...and I kind of suspected this would be the cause of a few waves with them. Three guys and ONE girl…oh, yeah, trouble. The bit with the chocolates is funny, too. And after tasting just ONE chocolate, Angela says, "I think I'm going to like it here." BEHOLD! The power of CHOCOLATE!!

Seeing Goliath and Elisa on her terrace...the first time I watched this, I had already decided that they were going to kiss or something by the end of the season. When G brought E back home, I thought, "This is going to be it!" Then Elisa had to be a party pooper and stop it (and my, wasn't that rain a convenient way of breaking it off).
This latest viewing, I found myself thinking, "...She left her lights on, the electric bill's going to be bad. Wait...how long have they been gone, exactly? It's a miracle she still even HAS her apartment--all the months she wasn't there to pay rent! What, does she pay several months in advance?!" Being a budding actor I have found myself struggling to cover such bills for the past two years, consequently thoughts like that have a tendency to occur to me.

Anastasia/Titania's revelation of herself to the gargoyles was a bit too quick for me, but there's only so much time in the average episode.

I love that the evacuating workers are actually questioning why they're being evacuated (I heard someone mumbling "fire drill"). It's a little detail I like.

The force field surprised me a bit, both because it's something we hadn't really seen before in the series, and because it was actually effective.

I love how Oberon goes from being amused to being pissed off when his magical bolt doesn't break the force field.
Nice effect where his eyes glow green when the lightning flashes.

Seeing Oberon wreak the one car makes me feel sorry for the car's owner (hope the owner's got good insurance). Then he puts everyone in the city to sleep and I start to wonder how many people might die (killed in a car accident, fell asleep while on a ladder or stairs, etc.) because of this. A lot of people are going to be inconvenienced by something they have absolutely no idea about (kind of like Vinnie!).

Oberon's put the city to sleep and both Petros and David Xanatos are in the "war room" with the former asking, "Has the attack begun?" I find that hilarious.

And then Oberon grows up ("Enuk-cha!"). That last shot of his laughing face through the glass of the atrium is great, especially as a cliffhanger.

Here, at the end of my ramble, it's time to talk about Owen. Now, of course he's acting weird but....
Okay, when this ep first aired I watched it with my brother. Now, I was the GARGOYLE nut in my family. My brother and mother thought it was all right and would watch it from time to time, but I was the one who lived, breathed and slept it. So, my bro and I watch this and my bro turns to me and says, "Owen's got to be Puck." And because it was my brother who said this, I disagreed with him. It wasn't that I didn't think it was possible Owen and Puck were the same (in fact, it seemed to me like a distinct and intriguing possibility), but it galled me that my brother (who would NEVER admit to being wrong) would be right about this. The fact that GARGOYLES was MY thing and not his made me more adamant.

Of course, in the end he was actually right...but I can't recall being disappointed about it in this case. It was just too cool of a twist.

On to part two, now....

Justin writes...

I know this will not reach you for awhile. But I was perusing internet movie database and found an outstanding review of the series I thought and hoped you might enjoy.

This person captures the spirit of the fans in every way, on every level. We have bought the DVS's we WILL buy the comics, and Yes, I believe we will bring this timeless show back.

We cannot do otherwise guys.

I have just one question: How can Disney Television Animation produce such a wonderful show as "Gargoyles" for a couple of seasons and then go back to being Disney Television Animation? I simply cannot understand it, and if anyone has any thoughts, PLEASE share them with me! This show was a breath of fresh air on every level. If this wasn't a groundbreaking show, it certainly raised the bar sky high.

Voices--Many's the time I have thought that they could have chosen a better actor for a part in animation. Not here. The voice cast was so good that to this day I cannot imagine anyone else filling the bill. In the role of Goliath, Keith David demonstrated that he possesses one of the greatest speaking voices of any actor in the business. Jeff Bennett was also great as Brooklyn, my favorite character. (Loved the white hair!)

Music--Carl Johnson's scores were great. They beautifully set the tone and underlined the action and the drama.

Animation--Excellent. Dark, moody and stylish. The shots of the clan as stone statues are downright eerie at times. To this day, I still can't believe Disney did this one.

Plot--Action, drama, technology, mythology, humor and a little Shakespeare on the side. Folks, WHAT MORE COULD YOU POSSIBLY ASK FOR? This series had the most tightly structured story lines ever--there was not a single moment of dead air anytime.

The best thing about the series, however, was the characters. For being a clan of gargoyles (with a couple of humans), these characters were as real as you and I. Things HAPPENED to them! They actually got HURT as a result of violence. They matured, sometimes in ways unexpected. They found out the hard way who their friends and enemies were. And they had to live with the consequences of their actions, which sometimes came back to haunt them in later episodes.

Here's hoping Disney will realize the error of their ways and bring this show back. If you are already a fan, may you continue to enjoy the show. If you haven't seen it, give it a chance. But be advised: Once you have seen television and the world through the glowing eyes of a gargoyle, you will never want to settle for "standard kiddie fare" ever again.

I hope you enjoyed this Mr. Weisman

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Turf" ramble, Greg! Only 6 to go now (though I doubt that you'll be able to do them all before the end of January - pity).

The trio definitely come across in this episode as the gargoyle equivalent of the Three Stooges, especially when they collide with the chimney, and when Brooklyn's shouting "Knock it off, you muttonheads!" Then again, as Elisa points out, what do you expect when they've been without female gargoyle company for a thousand years?

On a side note, I've noticed that practically every discussion among the fandom over which of the trio Angela ought to wind up with made it "Brooklyn vs. Broadway", with Lexington never seriously included in it. Of course, it makes sense now, in light of what we know about him.

I liked a lot of Brod's lines, such as "Chop shop? What is 'chop shop'?" and "This is why I never go in first" (not to mention what you brought up about "That was my favorite restaurant!") There were a lot of fun lines in here from the other crooks, such as Glasses' "Come on down to Dracon's House of Auto Parts. The prices are hot, and so is the merchandise", and Dracon's "What's going on here? I didn't order a break-out!" And finally, the hilarious ending with Brod and Dracon stuck as cellmates (though I doubt that such a thing would happen in real life).

I didn't recognize Elisa with that blonde wig, so it was a big surprise for me when she took it off and revealed who she was. (And naturally, the trio then go about saying that they knew it was her all along.)

Thanks for your comment about the payphone, by the way; I've been wondering for a long time about the significance of that scene where we look at it against the backdrop of the burning restaurant.

And interesting that Brooklyn should be the one asking about a world tour, in view of what we now know is in store for him (cf. "Timedancer"). One more example of "Be careful what you wish for."

Elana writes...

Dear Greg,

When people ask me why I proclaim that Gargoyles stands apart from other shows, I find it difficult to explain. The characters are great, the relationships are great, and overall it's just... great. But that hardly expresses its true charm.

In watching Gargoyles, I find that its appeal must come from its captivating and immersive mythos, the sense one gets of being transported to another, mystical world. Aside from that sense of awe and wonder, there's also that feeling one gets of really being a part of that world, and having an intimate understanding of it. It's like, even if a topic matter hasn't been thoroughly explored within the episodes, or blatantly described, one can derive how every little thing might be prone to work within the world of the Gargoyles.

Anyway (now that I'm done gushing), in light of all this, did you expect Gargoyles to affect and alter the lives of so many people in the way that it did? Objectively, it was only meant as a show for children, but somehow it's managed to capture and touch the lives of all kinds of people. Could you possibly have expected this? For many people, Gargoyles is more than just an interest or a "hobby." How does it make you feel to know that Gargoyles has nearly been a life-changing experience for so many people?

~Elana

gargolye gril writes...

you people better not put brooklyn with demona or i'll kick your @$$.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Vendettas" ramble, Greg! We're really coming along here beautifully.

The big problem that I had with "Vendettas" when I first saw it was Hakon's return. I thought that it felt anticlimactic after "Shadows of the Past" - particularly since Hakon's second ghostly attack with Goliath consisted of simply teaming up with a big dumb werewolf! But while I had some difficulties with the Hakon part, I really enjoyed the Vinnie part.

I was startled to learn that Wolf was Hakon's descendant, but did find their quarrels and Hakon's disgust at Wolf's stupidity amusing. (It now reminds me a little of the idea in the original comedy development of the evil sorcerer from the Middle Ages and his unworthy descendant Xavier being at odds with each other.)

I agree with you that Hakon and Wolf's weapon would have worked better as a mace - but I also liked (as you did) Wolf's line "Tonight is battle-axe night!", which makes up for that. I don't think that "Tonight is mace night!" would have been as amusing a line. (It certainly doesn't have as good a rhythm to it.)

When I first saw this episode, I thought it more than a little far-fetched that the motorcycle rider from "Awakening Part Three", the guard on board Fortress-1 in "Awakening Part Four", and the security guard at Gen-U-Tech in "The Cage" were all the same guy, but now I can accept it. I got a big kick out of Vinnie's narration and the way that it clashed with what really happened (especially the part where he was talking about doing everything that he could to stop Goliath from kidnapping Sevarius, while we see him with his nose buried in his newspaper). I got a real kick out of him in a hurry, in fact.

And it would be like him to give his pie-throwing gun a name (though, if you can accept swords like Excalibur having names, why not pie-guns as well? I can just see what Hudson would have to say about this, with his "Must you humans name everything?" comment).

Vinnie does remind me a bit of Wile E. Coyote beyond the Acme supplier; like Wile E., his humiliating moments wind up being mostly self-inflicted!

Another scene that I found entertaining (this one about Hakon and Wolf): when Goliath and Hudson go charging at Wolf, Wolf boastfully says that he'll swat them both like gnats, and the next moment, is sent flying through the wall before he even has the opportunity to do anything!

And the bit about the construction worker who, after seeing Goliath and Hudson, is convinced that it must be hallucinations imposed from his cough medicine (although if his cough medicine is that strong, he definitely shouldn't be operating heavy machinery!).

And then there's the bit at the beginning about Hudson wondering why New York's called the Big Apple.

I was definitely surprised when Mr. Carter's ammunition turned out to be a banana cream pie. But it was just the sort of thing that Vinnie would do. One thing about Vinnie: he's the only guy in the series who ever got revenge on Goliath, something that the Archmage, Demona, the Pack, the Hunters, etc. all failed to do - though the fact that his means of revenge were baked goods doubtless had a lot to do with that.

I still wonder where Vinnie heard the "Gargoyles" theme music sometimes. :)

The fact that Goliath, both times that he meets Vinnie (in this episode and "The Journey"), can't even figure out who he is, is all the more appropriate in light of your remark that Vinnie owes much to yourself. I'm reminded of a "Peanuts" strip that came out shortly after Charles Schulz was Grand Marshal of the Tournament of Roses Parade. Lucy was shown watching the parade on television; Linus asked her if the Grand Marshal had shown up yet, Lucy replied, "You just missed him, but he wasn't anybody you ever heard of."

The Masked Retriever writes...

My Puck/Owen Ramble:

I didn't see it coming, okay? Maybe I'm thick or something but I did not have the -slightest- clue that Owen was really the Puck. Did. Not. See it. I was blown away, to put it mildly. I fell out of my chair and frothed for a bit. Having managed to see these episodes in order, I'd seen all of Owen's episodes and Puck's and still didn't see it coming. Later, when I re-watched City of Stone, I fell over again: YOU KNEW ALL ALONG!! HINTS!!! EVERYWHERE!!! AGhthth!

As to the stone fist, I'd read it like this: Owen didn't know -what- the cauldron would do, but figured if it was something really bad, he could always get a new hand, given some time. His faith in Xanatos' technology was quite high, and there was ample evidence that Xanatos was developing loyalty-like emotions of his own. (I say loyalty-like because frankly Xanatos is one scary bugger, even post-Gathering.) As for Xanatos, I (wrongly, it turned out) read him as really feeling something there, some shock, some dismay and even sympathy, BUT knowing that the worst thing he could express was sympathy. It's not the Xanatos way to cry over spilled milk, or even a few gallons of spilled blood. You arch an eyebrow, make a mental note, and go on. To me at least, he did Owen a great service by reacting in the most Xanatos way possible, and in fact anything else would have been an insult to what I thought at the time was a huge (but on some level, justified as it IS freaking immortality) sacrifice.

(That last bit works really well even if you know about Puck, but it's far less dramatically heavy and more of a sublimely funny moment the two friends share. To translate the lines into Dude-where's-my-car-ese: "Hey, check it. Human form, human effects." "Huh huh. Awesome." The pair are actually -both- parodying themselves here, Owen being subserviant to the point of near-insanity, and Xanatos blowing it off. I like to think that here Xanatos is kind of thinking to himself "boy, I'm kind of a jerk, aren't I" but having more fun playing the part than any sort of remorse-like emotions.

If I somehow haven't said it enough, holy crap Gargoyles is the awesomeness, I've bought two copies each of the two DVD sets out, and I am obsessed with Xanatos' scary hotness. I have a LiveJournal icon of him from "The Edge" with the words "OMG XANATOS!" blinking underneath it. A toast to the prettiest, scariest, yummiest villain of all time.

A.Bifolchi writes...

This isn't a question, but more to a comment to the now season 2, Vol 1 Dvd that has been realised to the public this December. Once again I would like to thank you Mr. Weisman for your continuing efforts to promote Gargoyles along with the comic, which I will be hunting for soon. I dearly hope that Vol 2 of season 2 will come onto dvd, and myself along with my family will be the first to purchase it.

Once more thank you Mr. Weisman for allowing old Gargoyles fans to reconnect with something that we loved.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Gathering Part Two" ramble, Greg! Some of my thoughts on the episode.

One of my favorite touches in the early stages of the battle was Renard's involvement in the fighting (alongside Vogel and the cybots). I think that one way of giving a battle an epic tone is to bring in familiar supporting characters as well as the major characters; Renard's presence in Fortress-2 gave a real feeling of making the confrontation a really big one.

Oberon put up a truly fierce battle with a lot of great touches, I thought - particularly the animated gargoyles, the growing hair, and the limbo space within his cloak. It made him seem formidable indeed, even with the self-imposed limitation that his arts could no longer directly affect the clan.

I share that little delight in Xanatos's line about saving Broadway. How typical of him to cover up his true thoughts like that!

And the suspicion that I'd begun to develop about Owen and Puck being one and the same was confirmed. It still shocked me a little, but I quickly got used to it. My favorite part of it is still the bit where Puck says "He chose Owen", sounding truly impressed as he did so; you could just feel Puck being so intrigued and delighted that Xanatos would value Owen's non-magical efficiency over Puck's magic. (Mind you, after seeing how Puck granted Demona's wishes in "The Mirror", I'd say that Xanatos showed good judgment in choosing a lifetime of service from Owen!)

I remember a particularly fun remark about the scene where Fox at least unleashed her powers on Oberon; the reviewer commented that that scene was something that alert viewers saw coming - but what made it so fun was that she didn't just unleash her powers, but that she did so with such force as to send Oberon - who had seemed almost unstoppable at this point - through the wall!

In "Future Tense", Puck taught Goliath the hard way about being careful what you wish for. Now Puck gets a taste of that lesson himself; he gets what he was hoping for in "Future Tense" - getting to stay in the mortal world a while longer - but not in a way that he finds appealing! (I've recently found myself wondering, incidentally, whether Goliath, when he suggested Puck for the role of training Alex - though Puck was the obvious choice anyway - might not have been trying to get a little of his own back over that recent nightmare.)

That idea of yours about the gargoyles flying inside Oberon's head was funny - but it's probably just as well that we didn't see it.

And it definitely would be like Puck to say "I'm on a roll" to the audience - it would be perfectly in character for him to break the fourth wall.

Naturally, no ramble about "The Gathering Part Two" would be complete without a mention of the infamous Whisper. I don't want to know what Titania whispered, myself - but I've sometimes wondered if you've ever regretted putting that scene in, in light of how often you've been asked about it!

And we have a great ending with the beginnings of peace between Goliath and Xanatos - though even with the war over, there's still plenty of trouble to come in other directions.

Once again, thanks for the ramble, Greg.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for your ramble on "The Gathering Part One", Greg! It's great to have another episode review from you here, and I hope to see at least a few more here soon, even if you don't make it all the way to "The Journey" this time.

I remember that, the first time I saw this episode, it jarred me a little (as I've mentioned before) to see Odin taking orders from Oberon, but since then, I've come to accept it. It certainly did give a sense of resolution from the World Tour to see so many of the mythical beings that Goliath, Elisa, Angela, and Bronx had met showing up in the palace - and in particular, to have the Banshee being subjected to punishment by Oberon for defying his command to return.

(Incidentally, I assume that you chose Odin as the "Child of Oberon" whom the Banshee got into an altercation with because his voice actor was already present in this episode, playing Petros?)

I also had a bit of fun seeing if I could spot any new Oberati in the crowd; I could glimpse a centaur, a winged horse, a Medusa-like figure, and a couple of Norse mythology-type giants in the great hall, as well as the people entering in through the gates carrying torches (one of whom was on horseback, I remember).

I had missed both "Walkabout" and "Ill Met By Moonlight" when they first premiered, so this was the first time that I was meeting Titania under either of her identities. Consequently, the revelation that Anastasia and Titania were the same person didn't have the same impact on me that it would have had on other viewers who had seen those two episodes first.

After such a long absence from New York, it was nice seeing all those familiar background characters (the Jogger, Travis Marshall, Officer Morgan, Brendan and Margot, Cagney) again.

The reunion of the gargoyles at the clock tower was a very moving moment, including the discovery by Hudson and the trio that they weren't the last of their kind after all. I get a particular smile out of Broadway giving Angela the half-eaten box of chocolates. Another bit that I enjoyed was Hudson's delight at being reunited with Bronx (I like the rapport that the two of them have).

Your remark that Avalon hadn't really released Goliath and Co. from their quest, but sent them back to Manhattan to thwart Oberon's attempt to kidnap Alex (apparently Avalon isn't always in harmony with its lord's intentions) reminds me of one thought that I had the first time that I saw this episode; I was wondering briefly if the fact that Avalon had sent Goliath back to Manhattan for a purpose rather than just to release him meant that they'd have to get back on that skiff for more adventures afterwards. Fortunately, they didn't have to (I didn't mind the World Tour as much as many viewers did, but I understood that it would have to come to an end sometime.)

It was when Owen nervously cleared out of the Eyrie Building after giving his security system specs to Xanatos, explaining that he couldn't risk being involved in the fight with Oberon, that I began suspecting for the first time that he might be Puck in disguise (given that Oberon's initial purpose in coming to New York had been to haul Puck back to Avalon). Oddly enough, I'd missed all the other clues earlier in the series (Demona's "You serve the human" line in "The Mirror" and her "You're the tricky one" line in "City of Stone", the striking physical resemblance of Owen and Vogel, and Owen's immediately recognizing the significance of Anastasia having remarried her first husband). Now, however, I began to wonder if Owen and Puck were really the same person, though I had to wait until Part Two to have it confirmed.

The activating of the security system struck me as an especially great scene, one of my favorite moments in "The Gathering". Another, of course, was Goliath and Elisa's parting at her apartment.

As I said, great to have another episode ramble - I'm looking forward to Part Two.

Secret Agent Gerbil writes...

'Ello Mr. Weismen. Not a question, but a comment rather. I just wanted to say that despite my tender schooling age (I'm a freshman you see...but who knows what I'll be by the time you get around to this...) I just wanted to say that ever since I realized I wanted to be a comic book writer, your brilliant story, Gargoyles (and it's massively couldn't happen but you never know nowadays universe) has greatly inspired me! As I jot down my little ideas I wonder how I can expand upon them to create something truly unique!

And thus, I just wanted to tell you that Gargoyles has been a direct influence on my future attempts at possible creative properties of my own and I consider you (and your creative team) an inspiration!

And...also...

Nah, that's it. I got nothing else. Adios.

Jason writes...

For my questions to whomever,
1. If in the event that season two is released, would it be 1 whole set or multiple sets? My reasoning for this question is because of the fact that there are so many episodes in season 2.

2. If you read a little below you would see that I have the ability to watch the episodes when ever I want. With that aside, I have noticed that once and a while the animation style changes from episode to episode. It would mainly be in the solid and dark type setting but in some episodes, the animation changes to a more "goo'y" style that you would find in a show like Gooftroop. Can this be explained?

Now for my review of the first DVD set. I give it a 9.9. My only reason for not making it a 10 is because I was hoping there would be the featurette from the original VHS tape with the few voice actors and actresses talking and the background story narrated by Jonathan Frakes. That was my only real gripe.

I was surprised to see the video about the 2005 event on the DVD. I wanted to attend so bad, but there was no way I could afford the airfare. (Kind of bummed about that.)

Other then this, the DVD rocks. I will be very honest though, (Please don't hunt me down) I never thought that it would ever come to DVD so I looked around the vast internet and was able to acquire the episodes some time ago. Even though I have done this, I still bought the DVD because I feel that if it is worth buying, then the money should be spent to support the people that created it. This will go the same with season 2 and 3 when they come out (note I say "WHEN" wink, wink.)

I am happy to say that I am a Gargoyle fan (not as much as some but I'd like to think so) and will some day find my way into the amazing world. Thanks for the awesome work and the sheer genius of the Gargoyles Series.

Billy Kerfoot writes...

I'm back everyone, just got back from the 4Kids.com Forum. I've been chatting on the forum with kids all over the world about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I lately just saw an episode called "Same As It Never Was" and it was a lot like the episode "Future Tense." It was just as creepy, the Turtles and Splinter except Donatello died (because he was transported there in the year 2035 with Shredder--he's not the one from your childhood because he's VERY evil), and it was a VERY possible future--not an illusion.
Anyway Greg, I just dropped in to keep up on your responses and things. Thanks for reviewing one of my favorite episodes,
"Future Tense." I just want to add, especially after reading a review on the imdb website about your show on DVD, that you and your show are going to be history. (Laughs) No, not dead history, but the famous kind of history! There really hasn't been nor will ever be any show like yours ever again. Ever since I started to watch it for the past four years or so, it's still in my top five list of specific things to watch! I'm planning to, after I retire from my job (which is hopefully a Baseball Tonight anchor on ESPN--I already stand an excellent chance and I've only got a quarter of a semester until I go to college) that I'll start my own action cartoon channel that I've wanted to put on the air since I was eleven. Of course Greg, your show will be there whether we get it back on and running or not. We may also be getting a new fan or two or more when I compared and told about your show when I went into that ramble comparing the "Future Tense" episode to the TMNT's
"Same As It Never Was" on that 4KidsTV.com forum.

Paolo writes...

yes I'm italian I like this show too but i wonder one thing

we said that the 3rd series was not good as the first and the second it's ok and i can undstand, but

I see that there are more and more fans in this world that love this show and they write write a lot.

from Germany France and much more of european state, I think that maybe fans can help in a strong way writer and so on than why don't try to say to disney that fans are much more and they got more and more idea for the show?

i see that Baffy fans make possible the choice for the 6th and 7th series ( infact they must finished at the 5th series with the death of baffy)

i know i'm hoping for the the 4th season like a lot of guys and girls are waiting like me and we know that it is very hard it can be true, but I belive that is better gargoyles and goliath chronicles that power rangers series ( we can see that gargoyles is intenser that power ranger and more other toon in air)

so hoping in the 4th series come true, hoping in new character (that can help with their personality more auditel) and that disney could consider that gargoyles is not bad as this ungly story do

best wishes and good luck for your work Greg

Paolo 19/03/2005

Blaise writes...

FUTURE TENSE

Here's my ramble (finally)!

When I finished watching this ep the first time I was seriously amazed. So many twists and cool images and risks taken ("killing off main characters, sort of"), this ep just floored me that you guys managed to do this.
But let's backtrack a bit.

Goliath gets struck by lightning, and the clouds turn red. Now, I never for a moment bought that Goliath and the rest had been in Avalon long enough for 40 years to pass in New York (they would have needed to spend the greater part of 2 years in Avalon for that to happen). However, I did not rule out the lightning bolt being some weird "time warp thing" that propelled our heroes 40 years into the future, one made possible only by their absence. And that as a result of this being an "artificially created" future, if you will, the normal rules of time travel did not apply to this particular future. Then you guys killed Bronx....
That was the clincher for me. I didn't really care about the skiff's destruction (heck, I still missed seeing the head sink on this viewing), but as long as the "untouched" characters were around they could all go back and stop this dystopia from occurring. But then you guys killed Bronx, and I KNEW this was an illusion of some kind. I didn't know who was behind it, but I knew not a lick of it was real.

Anyway, back to when I actually did buy it. The new Steel Clan was amazing. Not only did they have Xanatos' face, which was a startling and kind of cool change, but they were also bulkier and seemed much more dangerous. It's interesting how the laser shot that destroys one of them hit its red lens in its chest. Made it seem like that was the only vulnerable spot.

When I saw the "boat" or whatever, I didn't immediately recognize either Matt or Claw. When Matt of course said his name, things started to fall into place (and I found myself thinking how remarkably well reserved he was for a guy in his 70's). But I still didn't recognize Claw. Why? Because I still hadn't seen THE CAGE or KINGDOM at this time. I *thought* he might be that tiger-mutate I saw in METAMORPHOSIS, but where were his wings, and when was he named Claw? Knowing who Claw is now makes the absence of his wings rather chilling, and makes me wonder what happened to them (or if Puck had bothered to think anything up).

The Talon-troops. Again, having missed the mutate-centered eps I had only the vaguest connection with these guys, but they were cool. It's interesting how this "Xanatos" seems to base his troops off the "Goliath" template (after all, the real Xanatos did intend for Talon to be an "anti-Goliath" of sorts, right?). I did notice that they (and later the Thailog Shock Troops) had "brain boxes" (to borrow a term from another animated series). I did not, however, take that to mean that a whole hemisphere of their brain had been taken out. Interesting that it's the right hemisphere--the one that's supposed to deal with creative thought.

Chavez's daughter was an excellent image and a chilling way of engaging the long-time fans.

The Xanatos broadcast. First of all, I was still surprised by the structures built onto the Eryie building (and I also did not know is was called that at this time because, again, of my missing those eps). It really made the whole city look a lot more techno. And then I find out that they act as Holographic projectors. But Xanatos' broadcast always seems so weird to me. Maybe it's just the lack of music, but also the way he says "Rejoice, my people," to folks who have no electricity, rat's on sticks, rags for clothes, and vast amounts of misery. The "Cinderella" bit doesn't fly much with me either. Of course, the sheer hypocrisy of that song-and-dance is probably the point.

I didn't recognize the Labyrinth for what it was until some time later (again, the missed episodes--last time I'll mention it, I promise).
I must admit I was not at all surprised to find that Hudson had died. After all, 40 years against this kind of set-up, when he was already in his 50's back in the present? It was a surprise that he had died so long ago (32 years, was it?) fighting with Xanatos. I believe, Greg, that you mentioned THE PRICE being the inspiration for that particular plot twist. I'll get back to the fight later, but Hudson's taking on Xanatos one-on-one really does elevate his status.
And for the record, I never thought that bronze statue was the real Hudson's remains.

Finally we see what Brooklyn looks like. Him being my favorite character, I was obviously most interested in him. And the armor does look cool. Physically he's...inconsistent. Seriously, when we first see him, he's obviously put on a few inches of height and bulked up some (he stood just a little shorter than Goliath here). However, once we get to Castle Wyvern, he seems to lose all that and looks like his modern day self with the armor on (this is especially noticable in the Great Hall--even though he's crouching down, he still seems smaller and skinnier than he was in Act 2).
But hey, his character is nicely done, and it was kind of fun seeing him punch out Goliath like that.

Broadway's "aging" was probably the most effectively done, at least for me. He of course has his battle scars, not the least of which being his empty eye sockets (which are quite chilling, especially when tears well up in them). His skin also seemed to have changed color, becoming more of a pale green than what I'm used to seeing. But the biggest change was his voice! Seriously, props to Bill Faggerbakke--Broadway sounds so much more somber and, well, mature here. He's lost the...well, I hate to say "duuhh" quality, 'cause that implies stupidity and Broadway's not stupid, but that's the only thing I can think of. It winds up making Broadway sound...exactly how he's supposed to sound, I guess.

When Brooklyn started dropping the names "Talon, Maggie and Coldstone" as well as "Sevarius and the UltraPack" (and hinting at the deaths of the first three) I didn't quite know what to think--I was still getting over Broadway's appearance. I do recall being somewhat affected by the mention of the other mutates (especially Maggie) since their's was the story arc I kept missing. I wondered what their relationship(s) with the gargoyles ended up being.

The Phoenix Gate is brought up in a logical fashion, and then quickly forgotten.

And now Demona shows up. I kind of figured she'd be on the "good guy's" team in this future 'cause that seemed to be the way the story was going, but her and Brooklyn being an item?! That caught me completely out of left field. I guess it's the only way to go since, you know, our Brooklyn hates Demona's guts, but it still struck me. My first reaction was to laugh my @$$ off, it was such a twist.
"Thailog was killed in the Clone Wars." DINGDINGDING! This was when I started thinking something wasn't quite on the level here. but that's when Lex showed up, so I forgot about it.

Lex as a cyborg was a chilling visual, and also rather appropriate for these events. But something differentiates Lex from the other cyborgs we've had on this show: his voice. There's a strange electronic reverb that makes him sound creepy. His reaction to Goliath is rather unique because there's nothing big about it. In fact, Goliath seems secondary in Lex's considerations, and all he does is give a sarcastic "Better late than never" before ignoring him for most of the ep.

Fox? Oh, Xanatos' son! Nice way to play with our expectations there, too. His design was great, love the melding of his parents' qualities. And yes, the rather "anime" styled fight between him and Xanatos is always fun to watch. Jonathan Frakes actually did a pretty good job at giving Alexander's voice a slightly different sound than Xanatos'.
When Xanatos' killed his son...that was a pretty jarring moment. There's even a moment where it looks like something's exploding out of Alexander's eyes just before the screen goes white. It was so intense, and the very act itself so appalling, that when I showed this to my mother years back, she couldn't restrain a shocked "Jesus...." Not a bad job you guys did there.

I always figured Brooklyn was sincere about Xanatos "{nuking] the place." Don't know why.

The sonar collar's a nice touch, as was Lexington's "circuit-board eye."

Then you guys kill Bronx. As soon as that happened, I knew this was all about as real as a $3 bill and decided to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

The Thailog Shock Troops were a nice touch, and subtly different from the real Thailog, not just in style, but also in the face (probably because of the aforementioned "brain box").

When Lexington got grabbed, I kind of assumed that meant he was dead, too. But then Broadway dies onscreen. He gets a really great moment here, where not only does he see again, but he sees the sun. It's well done, and the looks of anguish on Goliath and Brooklyn's faces are great, as is the music, and I really wish I could say it affected me more than it did. Remember, by this time I determined none of it was really happening to Broadway or anyone else, so all I could appreciate were the technical and artistic aspects of his "death."

Into the digital world. I like the "reenactment" of Hudson and Xanatos' final battle (Xanatos' techno-sword looks pretty cool). I love the idea that although Hudson fell in battle, he still managed to take Xanatos with him.
And the revelation of Xanatos' "immortality" is pretty neat, and led to a great line by Goliath:
"You're not immortal. You're not even Xanatos. The REAL Xanatos, at his worst, would not have done what you have done. You're just an unfeeling machine."
That did leave me wondering, if someone ever did manage to "download their brainwaves and personality profiles" or whatever into a computer, would that program really still be the same person?

Xanatos, has circuit-board eyes. A hint that I didn't quite pick-up on, but something told me it was supposed to be significant.

Then the Xanatos Program kills off Brooklyn (I recall getting a bit annoyed that my favorite character was disposed of so unceremoniously), Angela and Demona (the fact that he wasn't Macbeth didn't really matter to me, 'cause I knew they were fakes). Then Goliath tries to go after him only to be reduced to a talking head. The "Hamlet" reference was a given, but the "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" bit was just golden.
My favorite part though, was when Goliath starts to turn the tables. "Xanatos" gets a very worried look on his face even as he says "Whatever you're up to, it won't work." The *instant* he stops speaking the cloud of granite SLAMS into him and this computer program actually gives a cry of pain. And then the winged form that bursts forth is Goliath, in the flesh again. Very cool.

The new betrayal. Lexington as the ultimate villain. This caught me completely by surprise. Not only did I think he was dead, but I never thought one of the long-running "good guys" of the series would turn bad. But this Lexington actually fills the villain role incredibly well--just as good as Thailog or anyone else. I think he's especially chilling when he says (with that weird, electronic voice) "You've LOST, Goliath. Even if you destroy this terminal there are a THOUSAND others all over the city!" Then he does something rather foolish, he tries to do his "Alien" facehugger impression on Goliath, who just throws him into the nearest bank of computers. I got that Goliath killed Lexington here, but it never really affected me that much because A) part of it was self-defense, and B) that wasn't really Lex.

Nice fireball and explosion with the Eyrie building. The hole torn in Goliath's wing looked really painful and made me wince the first time I saw it--Goliath was always real.

Elisa gives a doom and gloom bit, and brings up the Phoenix Gate...for the third time. The first two times seemed perfectly logical, but here it started to seem suspicious. I always thought that the "warning bells" in Goliath's head started to go off when Elisa said "But I'm not [too weak to use it]. Give it to me." The close-up of his eyes there led me to believe that something was starting to pierce through the fog his mind had been surrounded by. But naturally, he's not going to just say no now, so he let's it drop to the ground. I love when "Elisa" reaches for the Gate but has to pull back and ask for it again (geez, how frustrated was Puck right there?). "Elisa" presses her request, but now Goliath KNOWS something's rotten in Denmark, and the whole thing comes crashing down around Puck's feet.

This was it. The final, ultimate twist in an episode chock full of them. And it was also a pleasant surprise to actually see Puck again, since the last time was THE MIRROR *waaaaay* back in the second week of the new season.
We get the idea that, like the Banshee, he wants to stay in the world of mortals (though I did not suspect the reason). We also understand that despite having enough power to create a huge false reality (where an hour or so takes place in just a few seconds in real life), he still must follow certain limitations, and thus can't take the gate unless someone physically puts it in his hands (again, talk about frustration).
Then he gives that whole "Dream or Prophecy" thing which has had just about EVERYONE pulling their hair out at one time or other.

Finally, back to reality. And Goliath decides being the eternal guardian of the Phoenix Gate just is not for him, so he calls up the flaming gate (great animation here, love the lightning ball just before it bursts into flame) and hurls the Gate into it.
Angela and Elisa are completely nonplussed by this turn of events, but Goliath only gives a cryptic response before propelling the skiff into the mists once again (and, as it turns out, for the last time).

I really enjoyed this episode, both because it kept the twists coming, and just because it seemed like a hugely daring thing to do.
I did figure that they would get home in the next episode, and I was glad. I was ready for the World Tour to be over. Glad it went out with a bang, though.

One last thing: I remember people trying to puzzle out "what really happened in those 40 years" even after it was revealed to be an illusion tailor made to just shock and break expectations. Just shows how compelling you guys' little "alternate future" was.

Wheeljack writes...

Greg responds...

"simply"

You think ANY of that is simple? Any of it?!!!!

Sorry... didn't mean to offend you. I thought the quotes stated clearly that this little word was meant ironically.
Of course I do understand that trying to convince some people who only see numbers to bring back a series is a very hard task.
You can do this.

The Bifolchi family writes...

I'm writing this on behalf of my entire family of five in response to the release of Gargoyles first season on dvd. Back in 1994 I was only 8 years old but even now I still remember the characters of Gargoyles and how much rewarding it was to sit down and watch Goalith and his clan figure out the ways of New York. My whole family watched the show since it always caught our attention and interest, but when it was cancelled my family felt sadden since it was the one cartoon that my whole family had enjoyed.

It's been 11 years since the series was created and I or my family have never seen a cartoon come close to beating Gargoyles was back then, but when we found out that season one was being released for dvd I got it straight away and we enjoyed it and hope that disney will deeply consider putting out season 2 & 3 for dvd. If not my family would still like to thank you for bringing this wonderful series back into our home once more and allow us to see something that had affected our lives so much.

Thank you,

from the Bifolchi family of Canada

Todd Jensen writes...

This is more a comment than a question, but I found myself remembering something. You mentioned having worked on the development of the original version of "Bonkers", the one where he was teamed up with Miranda Wright. One of the episodes from that version of "Bonkers", I recall (my memories are a little over ten years old, and a bit rusty), had Bonkers and Miranda after a band of gangsters who were after a long-gone gangster's treasure, the clue to which was on "page 23" (I think that it was 23, though I could be wrong) of a book, but they didn't know which book. So they were stealing Page 23 from every book that they could find - and when they found the correct page, it led to what was at first sight a poetry book - and in the same episode, Bonkers had taken up poetry (even composing a poem that was a take-off on Lord Byron's "She walks in beauty like the night") and viewed the poetry book as real treasure.

It struck me that, although it might have been only a coincidence, the episode feels almost like a foreshadowing of both "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" (both episodes had a strong pro-literacy message and the beauties of the written word proving to be the "real treasure") and "The Silver Falcon" (the antagonists searching for the treasure of a long-gone gangster). I just thought that I'd bring it up here.