Elana writes...

Dear Greg,

When people ask me why I proclaim that Gargoyles stands apart from other shows, I find it difficult to explain. The characters are great, the relationships are great, and overall it's just... great. But that hardly expresses its true charm.

In watching Gargoyles, I find that its appeal must come from its captivating and immersive mythos, the sense one gets of being transported to another, mystical world. Aside from that sense of awe and wonder, there's also that feeling one gets of really being a part of that world, and having an intimate understanding of it. It's like, even if a topic matter hasn't been thoroughly explored within the episodes, or blatantly described, one can derive how every little thing might be prone to work within the world of the Gargoyles.

Anyway (now that I'm done gushing), in light of all this, did you expect Gargoyles to affect and alter the lives of so many people in the way that it did? Objectively, it was only meant as a show for children, but somehow it's managed to capture and touch the lives of all kinds of people. Could you possibly have expected this? For many people, Gargoyles is more than just an interest or a "hobby." How does it make you feel to know that Gargoyles has nearly been a life-changing experience for so many people?

~Elana

gargolye gril writes...

you people better not put brooklyn with demona or i'll kick your @$$.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Vendettas" ramble, Greg! We're really coming along here beautifully.

The big problem that I had with "Vendettas" when I first saw it was Hakon's return. I thought that it felt anticlimactic after "Shadows of the Past" - particularly since Hakon's second ghostly attack with Goliath consisted of simply teaming up with a big dumb werewolf! But while I had some difficulties with the Hakon part, I really enjoyed the Vinnie part.

I was startled to learn that Wolf was Hakon's descendant, but did find their quarrels and Hakon's disgust at Wolf's stupidity amusing. (It now reminds me a little of the idea in the original comedy development of the evil sorcerer from the Middle Ages and his unworthy descendant Xavier being at odds with each other.)

I agree with you that Hakon and Wolf's weapon would have worked better as a mace - but I also liked (as you did) Wolf's line "Tonight is battle-axe night!", which makes up for that. I don't think that "Tonight is mace night!" would have been as amusing a line. (It certainly doesn't have as good a rhythm to it.)

When I first saw this episode, I thought it more than a little far-fetched that the motorcycle rider from "Awakening Part Three", the guard on board Fortress-1 in "Awakening Part Four", and the security guard at Gen-U-Tech in "The Cage" were all the same guy, but now I can accept it. I got a big kick out of Vinnie's narration and the way that it clashed with what really happened (especially the part where he was talking about doing everything that he could to stop Goliath from kidnapping Sevarius, while we see him with his nose buried in his newspaper). I got a real kick out of him in a hurry, in fact.

And it would be like him to give his pie-throwing gun a name (though, if you can accept swords like Excalibur having names, why not pie-guns as well? I can just see what Hudson would have to say about this, with his "Must you humans name everything?" comment).

Vinnie does remind me a bit of Wile E. Coyote beyond the Acme supplier; like Wile E., his humiliating moments wind up being mostly self-inflicted!

Another scene that I found entertaining (this one about Hakon and Wolf): when Goliath and Hudson go charging at Wolf, Wolf boastfully says that he'll swat them both like gnats, and the next moment, is sent flying through the wall before he even has the opportunity to do anything!

And the bit about the construction worker who, after seeing Goliath and Hudson, is convinced that it must be hallucinations imposed from his cough medicine (although if his cough medicine is that strong, he definitely shouldn't be operating heavy machinery!).

And then there's the bit at the beginning about Hudson wondering why New York's called the Big Apple.

I was definitely surprised when Mr. Carter's ammunition turned out to be a banana cream pie. But it was just the sort of thing that Vinnie would do. One thing about Vinnie: he's the only guy in the series who ever got revenge on Goliath, something that the Archmage, Demona, the Pack, the Hunters, etc. all failed to do - though the fact that his means of revenge were baked goods doubtless had a lot to do with that.

I still wonder where Vinnie heard the "Gargoyles" theme music sometimes. :)

The fact that Goliath, both times that he meets Vinnie (in this episode and "The Journey"), can't even figure out who he is, is all the more appropriate in light of your remark that Vinnie owes much to yourself. I'm reminded of a "Peanuts" strip that came out shortly after Charles Schulz was Grand Marshal of the Tournament of Roses Parade. Lucy was shown watching the parade on television; Linus asked her if the Grand Marshal had shown up yet, Lucy replied, "You just missed him, but he wasn't anybody you ever heard of."

The Masked Retriever writes...

My Puck/Owen Ramble:

I didn't see it coming, okay? Maybe I'm thick or something but I did not have the -slightest- clue that Owen was really the Puck. Did. Not. See it. I was blown away, to put it mildly. I fell out of my chair and frothed for a bit. Having managed to see these episodes in order, I'd seen all of Owen's episodes and Puck's and still didn't see it coming. Later, when I re-watched City of Stone, I fell over again: YOU KNEW ALL ALONG!! HINTS!!! EVERYWHERE!!! AGhthth!

As to the stone fist, I'd read it like this: Owen didn't know -what- the cauldron would do, but figured if it was something really bad, he could always get a new hand, given some time. His faith in Xanatos' technology was quite high, and there was ample evidence that Xanatos was developing loyalty-like emotions of his own. (I say loyalty-like because frankly Xanatos is one scary bugger, even post-Gathering.) As for Xanatos, I (wrongly, it turned out) read him as really feeling something there, some shock, some dismay and even sympathy, BUT knowing that the worst thing he could express was sympathy. It's not the Xanatos way to cry over spilled milk, or even a few gallons of spilled blood. You arch an eyebrow, make a mental note, and go on. To me at least, he did Owen a great service by reacting in the most Xanatos way possible, and in fact anything else would have been an insult to what I thought at the time was a huge (but on some level, justified as it IS freaking immortality) sacrifice.

(That last bit works really well even if you know about Puck, but it's far less dramatically heavy and more of a sublimely funny moment the two friends share. To translate the lines into Dude-where's-my-car-ese: "Hey, check it. Human form, human effects." "Huh huh. Awesome." The pair are actually -both- parodying themselves here, Owen being subserviant to the point of near-insanity, and Xanatos blowing it off. I like to think that here Xanatos is kind of thinking to himself "boy, I'm kind of a jerk, aren't I" but having more fun playing the part than any sort of remorse-like emotions.

If I somehow haven't said it enough, holy crap Gargoyles is the awesomeness, I've bought two copies each of the two DVD sets out, and I am obsessed with Xanatos' scary hotness. I have a LiveJournal icon of him from "The Edge" with the words "OMG XANATOS!" blinking underneath it. A toast to the prettiest, scariest, yummiest villain of all time.

A.Bifolchi writes...

This isn't a question, but more to a comment to the now season 2, Vol 1 Dvd that has been realised to the public this December. Once again I would like to thank you Mr. Weisman for your continuing efforts to promote Gargoyles along with the comic, which I will be hunting for soon. I dearly hope that Vol 2 of season 2 will come onto dvd, and myself along with my family will be the first to purchase it.

Once more thank you Mr. Weisman for allowing old Gargoyles fans to reconnect with something that we loved.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Gathering Part Two" ramble, Greg! Some of my thoughts on the episode.

One of my favorite touches in the early stages of the battle was Renard's involvement in the fighting (alongside Vogel and the cybots). I think that one way of giving a battle an epic tone is to bring in familiar supporting characters as well as the major characters; Renard's presence in Fortress-2 gave a real feeling of making the confrontation a really big one.

Oberon put up a truly fierce battle with a lot of great touches, I thought - particularly the animated gargoyles, the growing hair, and the limbo space within his cloak. It made him seem formidable indeed, even with the self-imposed limitation that his arts could no longer directly affect the clan.

I share that little delight in Xanatos's line about saving Broadway. How typical of him to cover up his true thoughts like that!

And the suspicion that I'd begun to develop about Owen and Puck being one and the same was confirmed. It still shocked me a little, but I quickly got used to it. My favorite part of it is still the bit where Puck says "He chose Owen", sounding truly impressed as he did so; you could just feel Puck being so intrigued and delighted that Xanatos would value Owen's non-magical efficiency over Puck's magic. (Mind you, after seeing how Puck granted Demona's wishes in "The Mirror", I'd say that Xanatos showed good judgment in choosing a lifetime of service from Owen!)

I remember a particularly fun remark about the scene where Fox at least unleashed her powers on Oberon; the reviewer commented that that scene was something that alert viewers saw coming - but what made it so fun was that she didn't just unleash her powers, but that she did so with such force as to send Oberon - who had seemed almost unstoppable at this point - through the wall!

In "Future Tense", Puck taught Goliath the hard way about being careful what you wish for. Now Puck gets a taste of that lesson himself; he gets what he was hoping for in "Future Tense" - getting to stay in the mortal world a while longer - but not in a way that he finds appealing! (I've recently found myself wondering, incidentally, whether Goliath, when he suggested Puck for the role of training Alex - though Puck was the obvious choice anyway - might not have been trying to get a little of his own back over that recent nightmare.)

That idea of yours about the gargoyles flying inside Oberon's head was funny - but it's probably just as well that we didn't see it.

And it definitely would be like Puck to say "I'm on a roll" to the audience - it would be perfectly in character for him to break the fourth wall.

Naturally, no ramble about "The Gathering Part Two" would be complete without a mention of the infamous Whisper. I don't want to know what Titania whispered, myself - but I've sometimes wondered if you've ever regretted putting that scene in, in light of how often you've been asked about it!

And we have a great ending with the beginnings of peace between Goliath and Xanatos - though even with the war over, there's still plenty of trouble to come in other directions.

Once again, thanks for the ramble, Greg.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for your ramble on "The Gathering Part One", Greg! It's great to have another episode review from you here, and I hope to see at least a few more here soon, even if you don't make it all the way to "The Journey" this time.

I remember that, the first time I saw this episode, it jarred me a little (as I've mentioned before) to see Odin taking orders from Oberon, but since then, I've come to accept it. It certainly did give a sense of resolution from the World Tour to see so many of the mythical beings that Goliath, Elisa, Angela, and Bronx had met showing up in the palace - and in particular, to have the Banshee being subjected to punishment by Oberon for defying his command to return.

(Incidentally, I assume that you chose Odin as the "Child of Oberon" whom the Banshee got into an altercation with because his voice actor was already present in this episode, playing Petros?)

I also had a bit of fun seeing if I could spot any new Oberati in the crowd; I could glimpse a centaur, a winged horse, a Medusa-like figure, and a couple of Norse mythology-type giants in the great hall, as well as the people entering in through the gates carrying torches (one of whom was on horseback, I remember).

I had missed both "Walkabout" and "Ill Met By Moonlight" when they first premiered, so this was the first time that I was meeting Titania under either of her identities. Consequently, the revelation that Anastasia and Titania were the same person didn't have the same impact on me that it would have had on other viewers who had seen those two episodes first.

After such a long absence from New York, it was nice seeing all those familiar background characters (the Jogger, Travis Marshall, Officer Morgan, Brendan and Margot, Cagney) again.

The reunion of the gargoyles at the clock tower was a very moving moment, including the discovery by Hudson and the trio that they weren't the last of their kind after all. I get a particular smile out of Broadway giving Angela the half-eaten box of chocolates. Another bit that I enjoyed was Hudson's delight at being reunited with Bronx (I like the rapport that the two of them have).

Your remark that Avalon hadn't really released Goliath and Co. from their quest, but sent them back to Manhattan to thwart Oberon's attempt to kidnap Alex (apparently Avalon isn't always in harmony with its lord's intentions) reminds me of one thought that I had the first time that I saw this episode; I was wondering briefly if the fact that Avalon had sent Goliath back to Manhattan for a purpose rather than just to release him meant that they'd have to get back on that skiff for more adventures afterwards. Fortunately, they didn't have to (I didn't mind the World Tour as much as many viewers did, but I understood that it would have to come to an end sometime.)

It was when Owen nervously cleared out of the Eyrie Building after giving his security system specs to Xanatos, explaining that he couldn't risk being involved in the fight with Oberon, that I began suspecting for the first time that he might be Puck in disguise (given that Oberon's initial purpose in coming to New York had been to haul Puck back to Avalon). Oddly enough, I'd missed all the other clues earlier in the series (Demona's "You serve the human" line in "The Mirror" and her "You're the tricky one" line in "City of Stone", the striking physical resemblance of Owen and Vogel, and Owen's immediately recognizing the significance of Anastasia having remarried her first husband). Now, however, I began to wonder if Owen and Puck were really the same person, though I had to wait until Part Two to have it confirmed.

The activating of the security system struck me as an especially great scene, one of my favorite moments in "The Gathering". Another, of course, was Goliath and Elisa's parting at her apartment.

As I said, great to have another episode ramble - I'm looking forward to Part Two.

Secret Agent Gerbil writes...

'Ello Mr. Weismen. Not a question, but a comment rather. I just wanted to say that despite my tender schooling age (I'm a freshman you see...but who knows what I'll be by the time you get around to this...) I just wanted to say that ever since I realized I wanted to be a comic book writer, your brilliant story, Gargoyles (and it's massively couldn't happen but you never know nowadays universe) has greatly inspired me! As I jot down my little ideas I wonder how I can expand upon them to create something truly unique!

And thus, I just wanted to tell you that Gargoyles has been a direct influence on my future attempts at possible creative properties of my own and I consider you (and your creative team) an inspiration!

And...also...

Nah, that's it. I got nothing else. Adios.

Jason writes...

For my questions to whomever,
1. If in the event that season two is released, would it be 1 whole set or multiple sets? My reasoning for this question is because of the fact that there are so many episodes in season 2.

2. If you read a little below you would see that I have the ability to watch the episodes when ever I want. With that aside, I have noticed that once and a while the animation style changes from episode to episode. It would mainly be in the solid and dark type setting but in some episodes, the animation changes to a more "goo'y" style that you would find in a show like Gooftroop. Can this be explained?

Now for my review of the first DVD set. I give it a 9.9. My only reason for not making it a 10 is because I was hoping there would be the featurette from the original VHS tape with the few voice actors and actresses talking and the background story narrated by Jonathan Frakes. That was my only real gripe.

I was surprised to see the video about the 2005 event on the DVD. I wanted to attend so bad, but there was no way I could afford the airfare. (Kind of bummed about that.)

Other then this, the DVD rocks. I will be very honest though, (Please don't hunt me down) I never thought that it would ever come to DVD so I looked around the vast internet and was able to acquire the episodes some time ago. Even though I have done this, I still bought the DVD because I feel that if it is worth buying, then the money should be spent to support the people that created it. This will go the same with season 2 and 3 when they come out (note I say "WHEN" wink, wink.)

I am happy to say that I am a Gargoyle fan (not as much as some but I'd like to think so) and will some day find my way into the amazing world. Thanks for the awesome work and the sheer genius of the Gargoyles Series.

Billy Kerfoot writes...

I'm back everyone, just got back from the 4Kids.com Forum. I've been chatting on the forum with kids all over the world about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I lately just saw an episode called "Same As It Never Was" and it was a lot like the episode "Future Tense." It was just as creepy, the Turtles and Splinter except Donatello died (because he was transported there in the year 2035 with Shredder--he's not the one from your childhood because he's VERY evil), and it was a VERY possible future--not an illusion.
Anyway Greg, I just dropped in to keep up on your responses and things. Thanks for reviewing one of my favorite episodes,
"Future Tense." I just want to add, especially after reading a review on the imdb website about your show on DVD, that you and your show are going to be history. (Laughs) No, not dead history, but the famous kind of history! There really hasn't been nor will ever be any show like yours ever again. Ever since I started to watch it for the past four years or so, it's still in my top five list of specific things to watch! I'm planning to, after I retire from my job (which is hopefully a Baseball Tonight anchor on ESPN--I already stand an excellent chance and I've only got a quarter of a semester until I go to college) that I'll start my own action cartoon channel that I've wanted to put on the air since I was eleven. Of course Greg, your show will be there whether we get it back on and running or not. We may also be getting a new fan or two or more when I compared and told about your show when I went into that ramble comparing the "Future Tense" episode to the TMNT's
"Same As It Never Was" on that 4KidsTV.com forum.

Paolo writes...

yes I'm italian I like this show too but i wonder one thing

we said that the 3rd series was not good as the first and the second it's ok and i can undstand, but

I see that there are more and more fans in this world that love this show and they write write a lot.

from Germany France and much more of european state, I think that maybe fans can help in a strong way writer and so on than why don't try to say to disney that fans are much more and they got more and more idea for the show?

i see that Baffy fans make possible the choice for the 6th and 7th series ( infact they must finished at the 5th series with the death of baffy)

i know i'm hoping for the the 4th season like a lot of guys and girls are waiting like me and we know that it is very hard it can be true, but I belive that is better gargoyles and goliath chronicles that power rangers series ( we can see that gargoyles is intenser that power ranger and more other toon in air)

so hoping in the 4th series come true, hoping in new character (that can help with their personality more auditel) and that disney could consider that gargoyles is not bad as this ungly story do

best wishes and good luck for your work Greg

Paolo 19/03/2005

Blaise writes...

FUTURE TENSE

Here's my ramble (finally)!

When I finished watching this ep the first time I was seriously amazed. So many twists and cool images and risks taken ("killing off main characters, sort of"), this ep just floored me that you guys managed to do this.
But let's backtrack a bit.

Goliath gets struck by lightning, and the clouds turn red. Now, I never for a moment bought that Goliath and the rest had been in Avalon long enough for 40 years to pass in New York (they would have needed to spend the greater part of 2 years in Avalon for that to happen). However, I did not rule out the lightning bolt being some weird "time warp thing" that propelled our heroes 40 years into the future, one made possible only by their absence. And that as a result of this being an "artificially created" future, if you will, the normal rules of time travel did not apply to this particular future. Then you guys killed Bronx....
That was the clincher for me. I didn't really care about the skiff's destruction (heck, I still missed seeing the head sink on this viewing), but as long as the "untouched" characters were around they could all go back and stop this dystopia from occurring. But then you guys killed Bronx, and I KNEW this was an illusion of some kind. I didn't know who was behind it, but I knew not a lick of it was real.

Anyway, back to when I actually did buy it. The new Steel Clan was amazing. Not only did they have Xanatos' face, which was a startling and kind of cool change, but they were also bulkier and seemed much more dangerous. It's interesting how the laser shot that destroys one of them hit its red lens in its chest. Made it seem like that was the only vulnerable spot.

When I saw the "boat" or whatever, I didn't immediately recognize either Matt or Claw. When Matt of course said his name, things started to fall into place (and I found myself thinking how remarkably well reserved he was for a guy in his 70's). But I still didn't recognize Claw. Why? Because I still hadn't seen THE CAGE or KINGDOM at this time. I *thought* he might be that tiger-mutate I saw in METAMORPHOSIS, but where were his wings, and when was he named Claw? Knowing who Claw is now makes the absence of his wings rather chilling, and makes me wonder what happened to them (or if Puck had bothered to think anything up).

The Talon-troops. Again, having missed the mutate-centered eps I had only the vaguest connection with these guys, but they were cool. It's interesting how this "Xanatos" seems to base his troops off the "Goliath" template (after all, the real Xanatos did intend for Talon to be an "anti-Goliath" of sorts, right?). I did notice that they (and later the Thailog Shock Troops) had "brain boxes" (to borrow a term from another animated series). I did not, however, take that to mean that a whole hemisphere of their brain had been taken out. Interesting that it's the right hemisphere--the one that's supposed to deal with creative thought.

Chavez's daughter was an excellent image and a chilling way of engaging the long-time fans.

The Xanatos broadcast. First of all, I was still surprised by the structures built onto the Eryie building (and I also did not know is was called that at this time because, again, of my missing those eps). It really made the whole city look a lot more techno. And then I find out that they act as Holographic projectors. But Xanatos' broadcast always seems so weird to me. Maybe it's just the lack of music, but also the way he says "Rejoice, my people," to folks who have no electricity, rat's on sticks, rags for clothes, and vast amounts of misery. The "Cinderella" bit doesn't fly much with me either. Of course, the sheer hypocrisy of that song-and-dance is probably the point.

I didn't recognize the Labyrinth for what it was until some time later (again, the missed episodes--last time I'll mention it, I promise).
I must admit I was not at all surprised to find that Hudson had died. After all, 40 years against this kind of set-up, when he was already in his 50's back in the present? It was a surprise that he had died so long ago (32 years, was it?) fighting with Xanatos. I believe, Greg, that you mentioned THE PRICE being the inspiration for that particular plot twist. I'll get back to the fight later, but Hudson's taking on Xanatos one-on-one really does elevate his status.
And for the record, I never thought that bronze statue was the real Hudson's remains.

Finally we see what Brooklyn looks like. Him being my favorite character, I was obviously most interested in him. And the armor does look cool. Physically he's...inconsistent. Seriously, when we first see him, he's obviously put on a few inches of height and bulked up some (he stood just a little shorter than Goliath here). However, once we get to Castle Wyvern, he seems to lose all that and looks like his modern day self with the armor on (this is especially noticable in the Great Hall--even though he's crouching down, he still seems smaller and skinnier than he was in Act 2).
But hey, his character is nicely done, and it was kind of fun seeing him punch out Goliath like that.

Broadway's "aging" was probably the most effectively done, at least for me. He of course has his battle scars, not the least of which being his empty eye sockets (which are quite chilling, especially when tears well up in them). His skin also seemed to have changed color, becoming more of a pale green than what I'm used to seeing. But the biggest change was his voice! Seriously, props to Bill Faggerbakke--Broadway sounds so much more somber and, well, mature here. He's lost the...well, I hate to say "duuhh" quality, 'cause that implies stupidity and Broadway's not stupid, but that's the only thing I can think of. It winds up making Broadway sound...exactly how he's supposed to sound, I guess.

When Brooklyn started dropping the names "Talon, Maggie and Coldstone" as well as "Sevarius and the UltraPack" (and hinting at the deaths of the first three) I didn't quite know what to think--I was still getting over Broadway's appearance. I do recall being somewhat affected by the mention of the other mutates (especially Maggie) since their's was the story arc I kept missing. I wondered what their relationship(s) with the gargoyles ended up being.

The Phoenix Gate is brought up in a logical fashion, and then quickly forgotten.

And now Demona shows up. I kind of figured she'd be on the "good guy's" team in this future 'cause that seemed to be the way the story was going, but her and Brooklyn being an item?! That caught me completely out of left field. I guess it's the only way to go since, you know, our Brooklyn hates Demona's guts, but it still struck me. My first reaction was to laugh my @$$ off, it was such a twist.
"Thailog was killed in the Clone Wars." DINGDINGDING! This was when I started thinking something wasn't quite on the level here. but that's when Lex showed up, so I forgot about it.

Lex as a cyborg was a chilling visual, and also rather appropriate for these events. But something differentiates Lex from the other cyborgs we've had on this show: his voice. There's a strange electronic reverb that makes him sound creepy. His reaction to Goliath is rather unique because there's nothing big about it. In fact, Goliath seems secondary in Lex's considerations, and all he does is give a sarcastic "Better late than never" before ignoring him for most of the ep.

Fox? Oh, Xanatos' son! Nice way to play with our expectations there, too. His design was great, love the melding of his parents' qualities. And yes, the rather "anime" styled fight between him and Xanatos is always fun to watch. Jonathan Frakes actually did a pretty good job at giving Alexander's voice a slightly different sound than Xanatos'.
When Xanatos' killed his son...that was a pretty jarring moment. There's even a moment where it looks like something's exploding out of Alexander's eyes just before the screen goes white. It was so intense, and the very act itself so appalling, that when I showed this to my mother years back, she couldn't restrain a shocked "Jesus...." Not a bad job you guys did there.

I always figured Brooklyn was sincere about Xanatos "{nuking] the place." Don't know why.

The sonar collar's a nice touch, as was Lexington's "circuit-board eye."

Then you guys kill Bronx. As soon as that happened, I knew this was all about as real as a $3 bill and decided to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

The Thailog Shock Troops were a nice touch, and subtly different from the real Thailog, not just in style, but also in the face (probably because of the aforementioned "brain box").

When Lexington got grabbed, I kind of assumed that meant he was dead, too. But then Broadway dies onscreen. He gets a really great moment here, where not only does he see again, but he sees the sun. It's well done, and the looks of anguish on Goliath and Brooklyn's faces are great, as is the music, and I really wish I could say it affected me more than it did. Remember, by this time I determined none of it was really happening to Broadway or anyone else, so all I could appreciate were the technical and artistic aspects of his "death."

Into the digital world. I like the "reenactment" of Hudson and Xanatos' final battle (Xanatos' techno-sword looks pretty cool). I love the idea that although Hudson fell in battle, he still managed to take Xanatos with him.
And the revelation of Xanatos' "immortality" is pretty neat, and led to a great line by Goliath:
"You're not immortal. You're not even Xanatos. The REAL Xanatos, at his worst, would not have done what you have done. You're just an unfeeling machine."
That did leave me wondering, if someone ever did manage to "download their brainwaves and personality profiles" or whatever into a computer, would that program really still be the same person?

Xanatos, has circuit-board eyes. A hint that I didn't quite pick-up on, but something told me it was supposed to be significant.

Then the Xanatos Program kills off Brooklyn (I recall getting a bit annoyed that my favorite character was disposed of so unceremoniously), Angela and Demona (the fact that he wasn't Macbeth didn't really matter to me, 'cause I knew they were fakes). Then Goliath tries to go after him only to be reduced to a talking head. The "Hamlet" reference was a given, but the "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" bit was just golden.
My favorite part though, was when Goliath starts to turn the tables. "Xanatos" gets a very worried look on his face even as he says "Whatever you're up to, it won't work." The *instant* he stops speaking the cloud of granite SLAMS into him and this computer program actually gives a cry of pain. And then the winged form that bursts forth is Goliath, in the flesh again. Very cool.

The new betrayal. Lexington as the ultimate villain. This caught me completely by surprise. Not only did I think he was dead, but I never thought one of the long-running "good guys" of the series would turn bad. But this Lexington actually fills the villain role incredibly well--just as good as Thailog or anyone else. I think he's especially chilling when he says (with that weird, electronic voice) "You've LOST, Goliath. Even if you destroy this terminal there are a THOUSAND others all over the city!" Then he does something rather foolish, he tries to do his "Alien" facehugger impression on Goliath, who just throws him into the nearest bank of computers. I got that Goliath killed Lexington here, but it never really affected me that much because A) part of it was self-defense, and B) that wasn't really Lex.

Nice fireball and explosion with the Eyrie building. The hole torn in Goliath's wing looked really painful and made me wince the first time I saw it--Goliath was always real.

Elisa gives a doom and gloom bit, and brings up the Phoenix Gate...for the third time. The first two times seemed perfectly logical, but here it started to seem suspicious. I always thought that the "warning bells" in Goliath's head started to go off when Elisa said "But I'm not [too weak to use it]. Give it to me." The close-up of his eyes there led me to believe that something was starting to pierce through the fog his mind had been surrounded by. But naturally, he's not going to just say no now, so he let's it drop to the ground. I love when "Elisa" reaches for the Gate but has to pull back and ask for it again (geez, how frustrated was Puck right there?). "Elisa" presses her request, but now Goliath KNOWS something's rotten in Denmark, and the whole thing comes crashing down around Puck's feet.

This was it. The final, ultimate twist in an episode chock full of them. And it was also a pleasant surprise to actually see Puck again, since the last time was THE MIRROR *waaaaay* back in the second week of the new season.
We get the idea that, like the Banshee, he wants to stay in the world of mortals (though I did not suspect the reason). We also understand that despite having enough power to create a huge false reality (where an hour or so takes place in just a few seconds in real life), he still must follow certain limitations, and thus can't take the gate unless someone physically puts it in his hands (again, talk about frustration).
Then he gives that whole "Dream or Prophecy" thing which has had just about EVERYONE pulling their hair out at one time or other.

Finally, back to reality. And Goliath decides being the eternal guardian of the Phoenix Gate just is not for him, so he calls up the flaming gate (great animation here, love the lightning ball just before it bursts into flame) and hurls the Gate into it.
Angela and Elisa are completely nonplussed by this turn of events, but Goliath only gives a cryptic response before propelling the skiff into the mists once again (and, as it turns out, for the last time).

I really enjoyed this episode, both because it kept the twists coming, and just because it seemed like a hugely daring thing to do.
I did figure that they would get home in the next episode, and I was glad. I was ready for the World Tour to be over. Glad it went out with a bang, though.

One last thing: I remember people trying to puzzle out "what really happened in those 40 years" even after it was revealed to be an illusion tailor made to just shock and break expectations. Just shows how compelling you guys' little "alternate future" was.

Wheeljack writes...

Greg responds...

"simply"

You think ANY of that is simple? Any of it?!!!!

Sorry... didn't mean to offend you. I thought the quotes stated clearly that this little word was meant ironically.
Of course I do understand that trying to convince some people who only see numbers to bring back a series is a very hard task.
You can do this.

The Bifolchi family writes...

I'm writing this on behalf of my entire family of five in response to the release of Gargoyles first season on dvd. Back in 1994 I was only 8 years old but even now I still remember the characters of Gargoyles and how much rewarding it was to sit down and watch Goalith and his clan figure out the ways of New York. My whole family watched the show since it always caught our attention and interest, but when it was cancelled my family felt sadden since it was the one cartoon that my whole family had enjoyed.

It's been 11 years since the series was created and I or my family have never seen a cartoon come close to beating Gargoyles was back then, but when we found out that season one was being released for dvd I got it straight away and we enjoyed it and hope that disney will deeply consider putting out season 2 & 3 for dvd. If not my family would still like to thank you for bringing this wonderful series back into our home once more and allow us to see something that had affected our lives so much.

Thank you,

from the Bifolchi family of Canada

Todd Jensen writes...

This is more a comment than a question, but I found myself remembering something. You mentioned having worked on the development of the original version of "Bonkers", the one where he was teamed up with Miranda Wright. One of the episodes from that version of "Bonkers", I recall (my memories are a little over ten years old, and a bit rusty), had Bonkers and Miranda after a band of gangsters who were after a long-gone gangster's treasure, the clue to which was on "page 23" (I think that it was 23, though I could be wrong) of a book, but they didn't know which book. So they were stealing Page 23 from every book that they could find - and when they found the correct page, it led to what was at first sight a poetry book - and in the same episode, Bonkers had taken up poetry (even composing a poem that was a take-off on Lord Byron's "She walks in beauty like the night") and viewed the poetry book as real treasure.

It struck me that, although it might have been only a coincidence, the episode feels almost like a foreshadowing of both "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" (both episodes had a strong pro-literacy message and the beauties of the written word proving to be the "real treasure") and "The Silver Falcon" (the antagonists searching for the treasure of a long-gone gangster). I just thought that I'd bring it up here.

Hannah writes...

Hi. I read that you are going to send these to Disney Executives and that they may or may not release a Season 2 of the Gargoyles. So, I just have to say that you absolutely must release a second season of Gargoyles on DVD. Not just for the little kids who like to stay up and watch it just because they saw it on TV and decided they liked it; but for those of us who grew up on it, that were introduced to it by older siblings or cousins or whatever, those who may or may not still be with us today. We grew up on it. I was about six I think when it first came came out, and watched it with my older sister who read the comics. My friend and I have lived withit most of our lives, before we can remember. We were once the little kids that stayed up passed their bedtime, just to watch it. As Highschoolers, we don't get the time to stay up and watch it. So when we heard it was coming up on DVD, we were ecstatic. It was a part of our childhood and with the dvd's we get a glimpse back to it. It would do you more harm than good to not put the others out. Do you remeber in the first season when the dude who kept on getting robbed and never closed down? And when Goliath asked why, Alisa told him it was because that store was the only food store in the community, that the people needed him to survive and Goliath decided then that he would protect the people of Manhattan. That's kind of how it is here. Not only would you make a profit off of the DVD's (instead of being robbed), but the people would be happy and grateful, whether the gratitude would be silent or not you would still be appreciated. So I am asking you people who work at Disney- Please don't discontinue any of the production. It would only break our hearts.

Megan writes...

Just wanted to express my love of gargoyles and my new favouite christmas gift, The first Season of Gargoyles on DVD. I have already watched the season numerous times and shown many of my close friends this wonderful show. I really cant wait for the second season to come out, with many of my favourite episodes in it, so i can show all my friends that as well

matt writes...

"Future Tense" Ramble

first things first, i gotta comment on the animation in this one. this is definitly one of those episodes where everything from the characters to the backdrops were just gorgeously drawn. truely a work of art.

now the "Previously..." segment really added to what i felt was Goliath and Co getting home. when the Gathering was first mentioned by Banshee and then later by Oberon himself, i had a strong feeling they would be getting home when this Gathering happened. with "Ill Met by Moonlight" finished i was convinced that they would get home in the next episode. so when the "Previously..." segment was airing i remember thinking, this is it... and even during the first scene Goliath's comments made assured me that this was it, they are coming home... it wasn't til i saw Puck's Statue of Liberty that i knew something was up. and by the time i saw the Eyrie Pyramid covering New York and Matt and Claw show up i was pretty sure this wasn't real. i could not believe that the writers would make this kind of massive change in the series and make it permenant. so naturally i thought this must be an alternate future or that sorta thing. looking back i should have known that the "time is like a river" speech forebid this kind of history. but i do remember thinking, "that bolt of lightening wasn't normal, something is going on. this isn't real, but i'm not sure what it is..." so i let the story play out, was quite a mystery in my mind.

BAM! the first big shock for me... Hudson is dead. its one thing to make the world in shambles, but to lose a main character. part of me was saying "NOOO!" and part of me was saying "theres no way this is true, no way they'd kill off a main character..." but the mystery lingered, what the hell is going on?
and, for the record, i remember thinking, is that Hudson's actual body? did they encase him in bronze? it wasn't til i found "Ask Greg" that i knew it was supposed to be a memorial only. call me silly, but i simply didn't know that much about gargoyle death at that point. *shrugs*

when Brooklyn appeared, now clad in armor, i thought he finally was acting very much in his leadership role, but something about his speech to Goliath (post-punch) was very familiar. it didn't hit me til recently that its very reminiscient of Una's speech to Goliath in "MIA". where have you been all these years? why did you vanish? both so angry that they had been left on their own with no answers. thats a tough feeling.
and Puck nailed Brook's sarcasm wonderfully "oh, that makes everything much better"...

i love Goliath's line to Demona, "hiding is never a solution". its interesting because you gotta think of how much he lives in hiding, and how much his life will be shaken when he is exposed to the world in "Hunters Moon".

boy does Broadway pull the heartstrings in this one... his death still gives me chills. and its not just Goliath's grief that is so hard to watch. Puck certaintly puts some anguish in Brook's face.

and Lex, that bastard. i mean, his treachery goes way past Demona's. i think that outside the grief of losing nearly all his loved ones, Lex's backstabbing has to be the worst thing for Goliath to take. another Clan member destroying us all, and once again blaming it on me, is it me? do i bring nothing but death and suffering to my Clan? doubt is a powerful weapon that Puck uses.

doubt, grief, pain, helplessness... i think Puck was going a little too far trying to get the Gate. wasn't there any other way to get Goliath to hand it over?
well, regardless, Goliath once again withholds a talisman for one of Oberon's Children, but this time he probably does the right thing. and we see the final one of the "big three" talismans thrown (literally in this case) outside of the reach of our characters (or so we think).

and one of the most interesting things to discuss with other garg fans is Puck's "dream or a prophecy" line. nothing like a good prophecy to shake things up. obviously, we know know its not a dead on prophecy, but only a few episodes later we start scratching our heads. the Clocktower is destroyed. what else in Puck's illusion will come true we wonder... will there one day be an Ultra-Pack? sounds like it. will Demona rejoin our heroes? looks that way. will Lexington turn out to be evil? well, maybe in the minds of the religious fundamentalists and ultra-conservatives... ; )

one thing i remember clearly saying to a friend of mine at school the day after i first saw this episode was, "i'll bet you anything that they get home in the next episode!"
turns out, i won that bet.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Future Tense" ramble, Greg!

The first time that I saw this episode, I thought that the lightning striking Goliath was some sort of time warp that had sent the skiff forty years into the future (I certainly didn't believe that "Avalon time" was responsible for what had happened to them; all of the previous World Tour adventures had been in the present day, after all). Of course, now it's clear that it was Puck who was responsible for it (and I'd picked up on Goliath's wish giving the little trickster his loophole).

I don't remember too much else of my initial response, but I know that, the moment the skiff got blown up, I was wondering how they were going to undo that. Of course, Bronx's death (followed by Angela's) raised that question even more, though I don't know if I was specifically wondering that any more by that point. (I find myself reminded of a similar response that I had when I first watched the episode of "Buffy" where Cordelia wished for a Sunnydale that Buffy never came to and Anyanka granted her her wish, when the vampires killed Cordelia; the moment that that happened, I began wondering in earnest how they'd undo the situation with Cordy dead. But that's another story.)

The Steel Clan robots being redesigned to bear Xanatos's goatee was a great touch. Another was when Xanatos's image appeared on the Eyrie Pyramid to deliver his Xanatopia broadcast; the way that it was set up made it look as if he had three heads.

I don't know if I picked up on it when I first watched the episode, but it's clear now that it wasn't the real Xanatos. I certainly can't imagine him now taking over New York in an open dictatorial style (as you pointed out yourself in the Gargoyles Season One Bible, he doesn't need to take over the world because he's able to get almost all of what he wants under the current system), forcing the remainder of the populace to huddle in the streets eating rats, etc. Much too cliched villain-style for him.

I liked the contrast between the trio: Brooklyn bitter, Lexington worse than bitter (gone evil), and the blinded Broadway (in contrast) being a gentle soul who never gave up hoping for Goliath to return and believes that what's important was that he did come back. (Not to mention getting such a touching death scene, and I'm glad that you convinced Adrienne to let you include it.)

The part about Brooklyn and Demona being a couple that really amused me was that not only was Goliath shocked by it, but so was Bronx!

Lexington strikes me as an example here of "You can become like what you hate". As you pointed out, his cybernetic nature echoes Jackal and Hyena - and I noticed that he also had lines around one eye that bore an eerie similarity to Fox's eye-tattoo in shape. A great touch.

Lexington observing the deaths of Matt, Claw, and Bronx struck me as a bit of a cheat in how it was handled, in that it was the one scene in Puck's nightmare that wasn't done from Goliath's point of view (since everybody in the "Future Tense" sequence other than Goliath is just an illusion of Puck's). Though I'm not certain as to how else it could have been handled. (I also noticed that the Xanatos Program's eyes had the same design to them as Lex's eyes in that scene - another hint as to Lexington being behind it?)

I'd picked up on the cybernetic implants of the Thailog Shock Troops, but hadn't realized that the helmets that the Mutates were wearing were also implants.

Lex's capture by the Thailog Shock Troops didn't set off any warning bells; I'd just assumed that it was another "loss of a good guy" moment and was therefore genuinely surprised to see Lexington resurface as the villain.

Goliath and Xanatos definitely got a great fight to the death in cyberspace, which stands out all the more in contrast to how their feud would *really* end (as the next few episodes would show). And it struck me as just like Xanatos to quote from both "Hamlet" and "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".

I really thought that the Phoenix Gate was gone for good at the end and so your mention of the plans for "Timedancer", when I first read the MasterPlan document, definitely took me by surprise. (I'm glad that there was still a little time travel left - I like time travel stories, especially ones into the historical past, and when Goliath threw the Gate away, I had felt a little sad that it looked as if we wouldn't be getting any more of those in "Gargoyles".)

Thanks for a great ramble, Greg!

Angelo Bifolchi writes...

Hi I am from the west coast of Canada, and I have to say I am so happy to see the Gargoyles series has gone to dvd. Currently I am 19 and when I saw the first season on dvd I was overwhelmed with excitment. I always cherished the series and was deeply sad when it was taken off the air. But now with the first season on dvd I can rewatch all my favorite eposides. I know this isn't a question, but I wanted to show my support for Gargoyles, and the hopes that disney will allow season 2 to be put onto dvd. I can tell you right now if I see season 2 on dvd I would buy it in a second without thinking twice.

Lastly I would like to say thank you to Disney and Greg Weisman for bringing back the series that I most cherished when I was growing up. Thank you so very much.

sincerely your,
Angelo Bifolchi

from British Columbia, Canada

Blaise writes...

ILL MET BY MOONLIGHT

I never misunderstood the title, although it wasn't until I actually read "A Midsummer Night's Dream" years down the road that I got the reference.

Our travelers are finally back in Avalon again. Sure, they may have stopped off between trips, but this is the first time since AVALON part 3 that we actually meet the characters again. I sometimes think Angela's line ("I'm beginning to think this Manhattan is a myth.") and Elisa's homesickness are nods to the audience as well as character moments. By this point, I was quite ready for them to get home. And I had a suspicion that it was going to be soon--both because of the above referenced lines, and also because I knew we'd be getting the big card and seeing Oberon and Titania. The "Previously on..." segment hinted that this would be the episode in which they made their appearance.
In answer to your question, Greg, I can't remember if I thought we'd be seeing Titania as early as the appearance of Titania's Mirror. I think not, simply because I didn't expect the plethora of Children that the World Tour brought out. And, after THE MIRROR, it wasn't until AVALON part 1 that Oberon was at all mentioned again.

The Lord and Lady's entrance was indeed grand (make a platform for yourself and materialize in a bolt of lightning), and their designs were nice. I'd always wondered about the skin-color choice, and I can appreciate and support the decision to not specify any human skin color on their preferred forms. I do wonder about the choice of color though--blue for Oberon, green for Titania. Was the choice based on their distinctions of "King of the Night" and "Queen of the Day" (I'm not sure, but I thought I heard them referred to as such)?

The female gargoyle with the triceratops plate finally speaks! And later on we learn her name, Ophelia! I was very glad for this--by virtue of both design and exposure in the AVALON three-parter, Ophelia really stood out. I'd hoped she'd be given a bit more in the way of character and was pleased to see that happen.

The "conversation" with Oberon always struck me as an exercise in "leaping before looking." Here you have two beings making a flashy entrance, and one of them the Weird Sisters refer to as "my Lord." So what do you do? You *demand* them to declare themselves while partially drawing your sword. You threaten to throw them out. You leap at them. You basically do all you can to piss them off.
Goliath was the one to have the right idea. I like his line "These strangers may fail in courtesy, but we need not." He actually manages to respectfully phrase a request for identification that Oberon finally answers. Of course, by this time Elisa had already pulled her partially-iron gun on Oberon and definitely pissed him off, so Oberon starts to "quicksand" everyone.
"Once and Future Queen"...I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but flash back to King Arthur with that line.
It always struck me that Oberon spoke in the third-person plural ("the Royal 'We'"). Really makes him sound like royalty of old.
Titania intervenes on behalf of our heroes (and just before Goliath's face was about to be covered with soil). "You are over-pert, my Queen." That's such a strange phrase, "over-pert." I'm not sure of its meaning (nor its proper spelling for that matter).
"Why bother with such foolish fairness." That has to be one of the most cliched-villain lines I've ever heard Oberon say. And his reaction when Titania offers herself as prize is just so great--he loses his dignity for a moment at his joy at the mere thought of remarrying Titania. Well, she is kinda hot.

Goliath, Angela and Gabriel are the chosen champions. Somehow, I just knew that was how things would turn out. I mean, they're the main gargoyles on this Island. It's kind of like Kirk, Spock and McCoy. You don't send out Kirk, Spock and Ensign Ricky unless Ensign Ricky's going to die horribly. Similarly, you don't send out Goliath, Angela and Job unless you want Oberon to make Job die horribly. It's all in good fun!

Now we have the "iron" discussion. This was a new aspect of the Oberati for me--they have a weakness! And I loved the "silver be for vampires and weres" line.
Sadly, this is one of the more foolish cuts I've seen Toon Disney make. They seem to want to cut out any close-ups of the gun or scenes where the ammo casing is shown being removed (they can't show how a gun can be loaded, Heaven forbid!). As a result, the whole conversation skips over this IMPORTANT bit of information. It goes from Elisa saying, "Oberon didn't seem too pleased when I pulled my piece on him," to the Guardian saying "Oberon's children have always been vulnerable to it..." It's like they're talking about the gun now! They can at least TRY to edit it in a way that doesn't screw up the information.
Sorry, my digression.

Gabriel complains about "running away from a fight" and Goliath says, "Consider it a strategic withdrawal." I kind of laugh at that simply because I just start thinking of other "pleasant euphemisms" for the same thing--kind of like, "I'm not going to the bathroom, I'm freshening up."
Angela says "Oberon's no stronger than a child now." Goliath corrects her, "As strong as any of Oberon's Children," but it's too late for me, my brother and some of my friends. I just get this vision of a mini-Oberon running up and kicking them in the shin or something.

Back at the ranch--er, palace--the forging has begun. I like Guardian's almost pleading line, "I still think a sword makes more sense." Here, Princess Katharine points out that Titania gave them a clue. Now I was quite interested to see what the weapon was going to be.

Oberon's "pillar of flame" bit is very nice. Even as a Child he has great power. But he still falls into the pit-trap. It's rather funny just how sure Angela and Gabriel are that it worked.
"Dare you try to make me look foolish, mortals?!" Every time Oberon says that, I just want to yell out, "Who needs to try?!" I don't know if I'd do that if I was actually in that situation, but it might almost be worth it to see Oberon's reaction. Is it possible for Oberati to have conniption fits?
Despite having his powers reduced, Oberon is able to pull rank over the terrain quite admirably.

I will confess, when Angela and Gabriel grasped hands in the air, and smiled at each other, I was one of those who misread that. Looking at it now, it seems more like a "coming up with an idea" expression. Immediately after this, they dive towards the volcano.

The flight over the lava is...problematic somewhat for me. Visually, it's gorgeous. This is the best lava in the series, period. And the hands are great (ironic that Oberon conjures up gargoyle hands to catch the gargoyles). And I love the way they turn Oberon's trick against him. However, once again, reality just wants to cut the suspension wires of disbelief. The fact that they fly so close to the lave without their skin searing off, the way they're able to maintain a steady altitude with all the hot air beneath them. Thankfully, the scene is still well done in the visual and staging department, so in the end, I'm all right with it.

I have to agree with you on the forging, Greg. I think I was okay with it until my brother pointed out that you're supposed to cool it AFTER it's been hammered into a proper shape. I never thought about the lack of a mold before, but pouring it on the ground never made much sense to me. Still, I love your little "forgotten scene," Greg.
Ophelia really did raise a good point here. And even though Elisa's argument seems to close the discussion, it really was kind of lame (at least my mother thought so we she saw this). I mean, how would Elisa feel if she came back from the World Tour and found a bunch of strangers squatting in her apartment? Oberon and his Children may have been gone for 1001 years, but as Luna said, "What is time to an immortal."
A better argument would have been that while Oberon can afford to be magnanimous and allow them to stay with no real problem, the Avalon clan couldn't so easily pull up stakes and leave to a world they are not really prepared for. Thus it becomes a question of necessity and survival. They HAVE to use the weapon, whether they like it or not.

Goliath typically tries to send Angela and Gabriel away, and typically they remain. "Gargoyles stand together. That is our way." So things have come to where Angela is reminding Goliath of the Gargoyle Way.
I love the way Oberon's hand looks when he calls up the ground to attack the gargoyles. I also enjoy Goliath's little dig, "But did Titania want the Island to defeat us, or you?"
Goliath has a real "Hulk" moment here. His eyes glow brighter then I've ever seen them, his roar manages to sound fiercer, and he breaks the rocks in front of him with a two fisted smash as he lunges at Oberon.
Then Oberon turns into a diamond. Jerk. I did love the "Now you're just quibbling" bit. And it's a wonder Angela and Gabriel didn't cut their knuckles on Oberon's cheeks and chin (those edges could probably cut glass). Even though his power is reduced, Oberon uses it more effectively than most of the Children we've found in this series.
But even after taking out Angela and Gabriel, Oberon gets caught off guard by one last attack from Goliath. His "Good, very good," actually sounds impressed.

A tangent here, I wonder if maybe Goliath really did impress Oberon--more then anyone else even. I mean, Goliath was the first one to speak to him with some amount of respect and decorum, and has displayed great strength and at the end a bit of wit and cunning. Of course, Oberon still knows that Goliath could never beat him, but maybe he gained a little respect for the gargoyle.

Oberon returns home to what was supposed to be victory and winds up facing defeat. I had not expected a bell--having not been as familiar with the old legends as Todd--but when Elisa gave a little re-statement of Titania's lines, it started to make perfect sense.
I don't know for certain if the Guardian was going to kill Oberon and only let up at the last minute. I kind of hope not, I hope it was more of a show for Oberon, but I admit it would be more interesting if that was the case. At any rate, Ophelia seems pleased that they weren't going to kill the proper Lord of the place. And heck, Goliath helps Oberon to stand.

Oberon says he will reward the "strange behavior" of mercy by allowing the clan to stay with his blessing and bestowing upon Goliath's clan the Honor Guard position as well as immunity to the arts of the Oberati. Still, the cynic in me wonders if maybe Oberon's just trying to save face with that "reward" bit. ;-D

When Titania calls Oberon "husband"...he smiles. He has a very quiet, but at the same time a very strong joy. I guess he really did miss her.

While Titania is speaking with Goliath, Oberon is in the background talking rather animatedly with...I think it was Angela and Gabriel. Complimenting them on their performance in the chase? I guess he can be a rather nice guy to speak with when he's not pulling rank.

And then Titania says she helped "To repay a favor rendered." I had not picked up that both she and Anastasia were voiced by Kate Mulgrew, and didn't until Anastasia spoke in THE GATHERING. As a result, this left me racking my brain trying to figure out when they came across Titania and whether or not it was in one of the two episodes I missed.

I figured, with all the talk from our travelers about going home, and with finally seeing the Lord and Lady of the Third Race, we'd finally get home in the next episode.
I wasn't quite right. :-))

A nice payoff to nearly a season's worth of pipe-laying.

Todd Jensen writes...

After reading your old outline of "Future Tense", I had a couple of comments on it.

1. I honestly hadn't realized the irony involved there in having Demona reform - only now Goliath still can't be reunited with her since now she's Brooklyn's mate! That certainly gives a whole new dimension to her role in "Future Tense". (Maybe I hadn't picked up on it since by now Goliath was moving towards Elisa anyway, in such a way that would make Demona's reform too late in another manner.)

2. I also noticed that, at this stage in the development, Talon had the role which would later be occupied by Alex in fighting Xanatos in cyberspace in Act II. I can't help but think that the later decision to make it Alex instead actually made the scene better, because it added a new and chilling element to it: Xanatos is killing his own son. That made the scene even darker than just killing Talon (who wouldn't have as much significance to him) - not to mention making possible the line "Since I'm immortal, I have no need for an heir."

Blaise writes...

CLOUD FATHERS

When this episode first aired, I had missed both THE CAGE and KINGDOM--leaving me very out of the loop as far as what happened with Derek was concerned, and making this episode the first time I ever saw Beth Maza. As a result, my initial feeling was one of frustration at having lost part of the continuity. Thankfully, however, it was easy enough to figure out that the Maza family had found out about Derek's condition and Xanatos' part in it. I guess that made it *slightly* easier for them to accept living gargoyles.
In addition, since I had missed KINGDOM, this was the first time I had seen Xanatos since the World Tour started.

And Xanatos is just GREAT here. He has his moment of "cliched villainy" with the death trap (and even looks upon it as such), but he also seems much more intense this time around. He has that large "staple gun" thingy that he uses to restrain Angela and Goliath, but he also uses it on two seperate occasions as a weapon--and this thing could really kill someone! Even as a villain, Xanatos is likeable enough that you kind of forget he has the potential to be a killer. Even the death trap doesn't drive that home to me as much as his battle tactics here do.
However, before that, Xanatos' admission that he really has no interest in killing Goliath and Angela is quite refreshing--and further proof that he's not the typical animated nemesis. I even love the almost friendly look on his face as he admits neither gargoyle has done anything he'd hold a grudge against (does Xanatos even HAVE any grudges?).
Naturally, once I found out he was after Coyote the Trickster, I figured he was after immortality. His whole conversation with the Trickster is just perfectly written.
I also loved Xanatos "annoyance" at the end--FINALLY he got handed a real defeat that he could not look on the bright side of. Finally, Goliath (with a little help from his friends) was able to get under his skin, if just a smidge. I wondered, and I'm sure I wasn't alone, if this indicated a "final confrontation" was brewing. Of course, that's not what happened, but this works as a nice little misdirection.

The Robot, Coyote 4.0 was also nice, and a real treat for me to have him and Xanatos interacting. Nice design, although the "face" looked weird. More angular than usual, and sometimes the "skull" side looked like it had an eyebrow. Regardless, I love the two playing off each other, and am goofishly pleased when Xanatos, with his helmet on, is talking with Coyote 4.0, whose "face" is showing. I've always wondered what someone flipping channels would have made of this scene where there appear to be two robots talking--one with a half-human face.
Actually, that particular conversation does not speak very highly for Coyote 4.0's intelligence. He releases the Trickster ("I will check...") and then allows himself to be goaded into bringing a building down on top of him ("I should warn you, I'm programmed for vengence"). Yeah, you can definitely see the Wile E. Coyote resemblence. Now if you could have just had him hold up a little pink umbrella a split-second before the building came down on him.... ;-)

The Trickster himself was unique--the only wholly sympathetic Trickster we have met. Raven and Anansi were the antagonists of their respective episodes, and Puck...while he was enchained by Demona he didn't seem to mind giving our heroes a hard time. Coyote (the Trickster, not the Robot) not only willingly helped our heroes, but actually showed some real affection for one of them--that, of course, being Peter Maza.
Also, this Trickster was a lot more subtle--he rarely used any overt magic (a little hypnosis here, vanishing there, changing his clothes inside the Robot...). He mostly goaded others into acting (influencing luck from the sidelines, of course), and managed to take out the Robot by just dodging behind the support beams.

As for Peter Maza himself, it's nice to see more development in Elisa's dad, and showcasing where he came from. His story kind of parallels with Natsilane's, but Peter is older, more set in his beliefs--it takes more than gargoyles to convince him to believe in Coyote the Trickster. Peter also had a much more bitter break with his traditions, a good deal of which comes through with what was probably his last conversation with his father. When I first saw this ep, I had no idea that Carlos Maza had died. Having Elisa and Beth refer to "Grandpa" made me think he was still around for some reason. Of course, that made the final scene all the more poignant.

It was also nice to see and learn more about Beth. I like how each of the Maza "kids" are distinctive in personality and looks as well.
It's also nice that when Elisa realizes where they are, her first thought has to do with her family ("Beth might be in danger"). And I love the surprise in her voice when she sees her father is there as well. She is really happy to see them.

Random thoughts:

It took me a couple viewings before I started to pick up on the skiff having arrived in a pool. I rather like that twist.

When Peter and Beth start to explain to Elisa about being arrested and she asks them to start from the beginning. I don't know why but I really find that scene interesting.

Beth and Peter's reactions to the gargs are nice. Peter shows that he's probably not 100% on the whole "gargoyle" thing when he refers to them as "strange company." Beth is obviously a bit more open to them, although even she admits they seem "alien" (and no, I did not take that to mean "extraterrestrial"). Elisa, however, is used to looking at them through her own eyes, and as she says, all she sees is the beauty.

Coyote the Trickster's reverse psycology was a rather nice touch. Even better was Elisa's later comment that it was "pretty blatant."

Xanatos tries to fire from his arm-cannon only to have it kind of blow up in his face since Bronx already chewed it up. Xanatos' line here ("Big mistake, people!") always struck me as odd for some strange reason. I guess I'm not used to hearing Xanatos say something like that.

"No way my luck's this bad." I just love that line.

Beth's little pause before clarifying "uh, The Trickster, not the Robot." A nice beat that also kind of winks at the audience.

"The last thing I remember was ordering a pizza." Another bit I just love for some reason.

Peter's change of heart and appearing in the kachina garment was something I had been expecting. However, Coyote the Trickster's little speech was a surprise. It added an extra level to what Coyote was doing and Peter's part in everything. I love that little "I had to get you back" moment.

I noticed that Beth Maza had a different voice actress here than she did in THE CAGE. I'm not offering this as a complaint or nitpick, I'm just curious if there's any particular reason why.

Xanatos and Coyote alone make this a worthwhile ep, but the other elements really help turn it into one of the best eps on the World Tour.

Lady Brooklyn writes...

I just wanted to post a review for the Gargoyles DVD... something I waited for, and with great relish purchased, after 10 years of waiting! This DVD is awesome! I just finished watching (and listening to) the commentary track.... and was blown away by the factoids and the care that the creators still have for the show. Like many others... Gargoyles had a big influence on my life and artistic career! I certainly hope that Disney will satisfy my desire and put the rest of the Gargoyles episodes (yes the ENTIRE second season!) on another DVD set!

Thanks so much! Take care!

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Ill Met By Moonlight" ramble, Greg! (And it's a pity that people keep on misreading it, as well. Maybe they need to read a little more Shakespeare and come across the original line. :))

I'm at a slight disadvantage at reviewing this episode, since I missed "Ill Met By Moonlight" the first time that it aired (or, more accurately, wasn't able to see it properly, since I'd just gotten a new television set that didn't have an antenna yet and so wasn't able to make out the picture very well). By the time that I did get to see it properly, I'd also already seen "The Gathering" and so got to meet Oberon and Titania through it instead. (It also meant that I already knew that Titania and Anastasia Renard were the same person, and since I'd already seen "Walkabout" by this time, knew therefore what Titania was talking about when she made that remark to Goliath at the end.)

You didn't say much about the Weird Sisters in this episode, but there were two small bits about them that stick with me. The first is that, when Oberon's burying the Avalon clan alive, the Sisters exchange little smiles with each other in a way that makes them look almost like a school tattletale who's just gotten someone sent to the principal's office and is gloating about it.

The second (which I think is especially intriguing) comes at the end, when Selene (the Sister representing vengeance) is clearly angry over the way that events have turned out, but Luna (the Sister representing fate) holds up one hand silently. Fate restraining Vengeance - that definitely makes me wonder what was going on there, especially since you said that the Sisters still had other plots brewing. Pity that we'll probably never find out now what they were.

I don't know for certain whether I was expecting Oberon and Titania to show up in the series, but I'm glad that they got in; it would be odd if they were only to be mentioned but never actually appear.

This was definitely one of the more "Shakespeare-heavy" episodes. Oberon, Titania, and the Weird Sisters are on-stage characters, Puck is mentioned, the title is taken from Shakespeare, there's a gargoyle named Ophelia, plus the lines "The game is afoot" (I wonder how many people know that Shakespeare wrote that long before Sir Arthur Conan Doyle created Sherlock Holmes) and "All's well that ends well".

Ophelia raised a good point about the issue of Oberon having a prior claim over Avalon. (Indeed, one question that I've seen raised once in the comment room is why the Avalon clan stayed so long on Avalon; the initial reason was to escape Constantine, but since he was overthrown only two years after they fled, that reason was now moot. On the other hand, anti-gargoyle sentiment didn't die with Constantine - not by a long shot - so I can see why it would want a hiding place that humans could never reach.)

The notion of casting the iron into the shape of a bell worked for me, and fitted in nicely with faerie lore, where the faerie-folk couldn't stand bells. (This seems to have been for religious reasons in the original stories - the bells in question were church bells and the faeries were imagined as being old gods dwindled with the waning of paganism - but here the concept used instead is that the bell is made out of iron.) I'll confess that I don't know enough metallurgy to recognize that the forging of the bell wasn't all that accurate. I also liked Titania's clever little word-play with "ring" in giving the clue.

Good explanation for why Oberon was acting in the same way towards mortals that he'd condemned Titania for acting a thousand years earlier. (Though I did wonder when I first saw the episode why Oberon hadn't had any problems with another mortal - King Arthur - sleeping on Avalon. Of course, the fact that Arthur was spending all that time in an enchanted slumber in an out-of-the-way location like the Hollow Hill would have made that different - as well as what you mentioned about Oberon owing Merlin a favor.)

Thanks again for the ramble. I'm looking forward to the "Future Tense" one next.

Blaise writes...

BUSHIDO

LOVE the opening shot on the mask!

This was an episode I had been waiting for ever since I had read about the second season introducing Japanese gargoyles. Actually, this clan managed to make itself distinctive in more ways than mere physicality (although, even that was unique--Japanese gargoyles seem to have a profusion of horns, spurs and juts, and I love the "dragon-dog"). Their facing inward was an excellent touch, as was connecting them to samurai. Actually, this ep was the first place I'd ever heard about Bushido.

I never really picked up on the parrallels between this and AWAKENING until you mentioned them some time ago, Greg. Now, I can hardly understand how I missed them. Maybe because I never took Taro as seriously as Xanatos--I mean, c'mon...a theme park?! Xanatos wants immortality and his own super team. No contest, man. And whereas Demona was focused on "getting rid of the humans," Yama wants just the opposite: greater contact. Unfotunately, he seems to want it not just in his own lifetime, but immediately. Haste makes waste, I guess.
However, this time out, I really noticed the similarity between Kai and Goliath. Even in physicality--they've got the same damn chin!
Actually, I was quite surprised to see a couple gargoyles that looked even bigger and more muscular than Goliath.
And I do wish we had seen more of Sora. She had a very unique look (and not just because she's the only two-toed gargoyle I've seen). Exotic and beautiful. The chance of a guest appearance by her alone is enough to make me want "BAD GUYS" on the air. And she's Yama's mate! That guy didn't know how good he had it!

Of course, the biggest thing was the fact that the humans and gargoyles were buddies. It was nice to actually see gargs being able to stand in the street rubbing shoulders with the human inhabitants. One does wonder how it remains "the best kept secret in Japan" if they occasionally capture crooks from out of town (like the ones we meet at the beginning). I guess if a town has "monsters" on its side you'd just as soon leave and forget about it.

Yama and Taro's little asides indicate early on that they're up to something. It's very easy here--and later on with his rather stand-offish attitude--to assume Yama is as complete a villain as Taro. But Yama really does want a better life for his clan (and his kind in general), and that's probably why he remains blind to Taro's true nature until he hears about the press.

I, too, love Goliath's line, "And you will solve this problem by charging admission." I also love Taro's reaction--he ignores it.

"Gargoyle must not fight gargoyle!" I had never seen "Planet of the Apes" before this, so I didn't get that little tribute initially. Instead, it seemed like a further indication of the Ishimura clan's cultural distinctiveness--that they have some sort of "law" specifically stating this.

Hiroshi's sacrifice (of his car). Having been through three accidents myself (and with my brother's poor car being totalled this past weekend), I feel so sorry for Hiroshi here. I love the way he asks, "Is this the only way?"

Actually, Hiroshi seems to have a pretty good sense of humor about him. "Excuse me. I was looking for the snack bar."

It took me a while before I got the "TV stars" joke.

One bit I really started noticing recently is when Kai says to Yama something along the lines of, "You helped build this, so YOU may stay." Nowadays, that bit seems to indicate the "start" of Yama's exile.

What did that little gargoyle-head that Taro pulled do? Set off a silent alarm of some kind?

Taro dresses as a Samurai--even while deriding Bushido.
The electric fans are an excellent touch (and I love the shot of Taro passing them in front of his face).
Yama partially redeems himself here by taking on Taro. He sure is tough--look at the way he takes both fans on the shoulders! However, there is a moment in here I can't help but laugh at--Yama says, "He's mine" and squares off against Taro, only to be knocked down by an electric blast within five seconds.

For a character as arrogant as Taro (and that arraogance is part of the reason he failed), his humiliating "press conference" is an excellent punishment. And, of course, Elisa and Hiroshi don't help him (it's great the way they just throw themselves into their little act). And the Frank Welker-goylebot is just great.
Like Todd, I have to question Taro's holding the press conference at dawn. I suppose Taro just wanted to be sure the gargoyles didn't have any real time to escape, but if so it was a wasted effort.

Some other random thoughts:
Taro was voiced by an actor named James Saito. I'm wondering if this is the same James Saito who starred in the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" movie as the Shredder (the body, his voice was dubbed by another actor).

RE: Taro and Bruno having the same type of dart gun. Check the bottom--it's probably got "Made in Japan" stamped on it. ;-)

You don't consider being a "living walkaround character in a theme park" hell? I know I would!

It would have been nice to have some Japanese language in this ep (people forget that "Batman: The Animated Series" managed to pull it off), but at least samurai and Bushido were brought up.

I love how Yama JUST dodges the knife.

And Elisa in a kimono. 'Nuff said.

I really do enjoy this episode, and am only sad that we couldn't see more of Yama, Sora and the rest of the clan (here or in "Bad Guys").

Blaise writes...

SENTINEL

Here's my ramble (better late than never).

Up front I'll say this ep is always a bit difficult for me to watch because of the "unfairly accused" angle with Nokkar and the gargoyles. Injustice in any form has always raised my hackles, and the way Nokkar is so convinced of the gargoyles' guilt (without any REAL evidence) just ticks me off.
I admit, Nokkar gets less slack from me than either Talon or the Banshee in this regard. Talon was being deliberately deceived (by Xanatos--'nuff said), and the Banshee was a bit of an unscrupulous character anyway, but Nokkar is acting on his own judgement AND he's supposed to be the GOOD GUY! The sheer certainty with which he pronounces the gargoyles as invaders just strikes me as...well, deplorable.
I understand that he's a "sentinel" and all that, but still...if nothing else the fact that he couldn't identify "[their] planet of origin" should have sent off some warning lights in his head. Elisa bringing up "gargoyle statues" may not have immediately turned Nokkar's mind to the moai raised in his honor, but he might have at least thought to pursue that line of inquiry. And how long would it take for Elisa's memory to come back? A sentinel may not be "permitted to take prisoners" but he had no problem holding the gargoyles until he had them all, and had given Elisa the tour of his ship. Would it have been so bad to wait until Elisa's memories had returned?
Like I said, Nokkar's a good guy--and with Elisa he's down right pleasent (real nice and gentle--so just seeing how certain he is when he's in the wrong is very frustrating to me.

It can also be frustrating when Goliath is trying his best to (re-)connect with an amnesiac Elisa, but fun at the same time. One thing I've noticed is that Goliath's familiarity with Elisa kind of worked against him in the hotel room. I mean, his entrance (and line, "I'm afraid I cannot allow that") and behavior are almost the sort of things you'd expect from a villain, but he's just trying to protect his...uh, friend (his GOOD friend).
Actually, I love that line: "Elisa, please. We've been friends for over a year--GOOD friends! We've been...--"[I've always wondered if he was about to stumble into a verbal declaration of love here, but instead he follows it up with]--"traveling together with my daughter, Angela, and Bronx."
I, too, enjoy Elisa's calling him Tiny. And the "Holy Grail" bit was just sweet.
Goliath loves histrionics. Just look at the way he gestures when saying "The Castle...Xanatos...Gargoyles!"

I really like the presentation of Nokkar in terms of his physicality, and his technology. He truly is quite alien (I wonder if any fans have tried to puzzle out his science). Watching the episode today, I noticed just how tube like his body is--thin and ramrod straight. His weapons and ship are also fairly unique--the laser-tongue and mini-bot especially.
Still, it always throws me off how, when blasted, his seemingly metal ship appears to have the consistency of stone. Oh, well.

The archeologists from "LIGHTHOUSE..." return--much to my surprise. I had honestly expected never to see them again. I suppose it would have been a bit much for Dr. Sato from "DEADLY FORCE" to show up here as well. ;)
I'm glad to hear John Rhyes-Davies as Morwood-Smyth again (I apologize for my spelling here).

Actually, it's good voice acting all around as usual. Salli does a great job with Elisa's confusion and fear. Even Clyde Kusastsu (sp?) makes his "Dr. Arnada" sound different from the character he will be playing in our next episode.
Special note must be given to Avery Brooks and Nokkar's particular sound. Avery Brooks has a very distinctive way of speaking, and it works quite well for an alien who has had to learn English as a second (or even third or fourth) language. Also, the sound guys did a great job with the modulation for Nokkar--it has led me to speculate how his voice box must function.

The destruction of the Moai head...yeah, that always disturbed me, too.

I'm not sure what my initial reaction was to extraterrestrials being introduced into gargoyles like this, but I never had any problems with it. Some folks, I think, found it a bit TOO out there, but I just viewed it as another story possibility (and I have to admit I am VERY interested in G2198--though I do hope we see some of how Arnada and the Archeologists adjust to this new wrinkle in their lives).
As for putting the "Gargoyles are aliens" theory to rest...I think you'd have to insert a clip of yourself saying something like, "They're not aliens, they never were, they're completely home grown--get used to it." And even THAT might not stop it.

Random thought: Did Elisa remember the incantation to get to Avalon? Did Goliath teach it to her before sleeping? If not, that's going to be one LONG day at sea--especially with that storm on the horizon.

Battle Beast writes...

Re: "Cloud Fathers"

Wile E. 4.0??? LOL

Xanatos: "It's so hard to program good help these days." LOL

Seriously, There is a great deal of great writing in this episode. The quotes you pointed out are just some great examples of how great the writers on this series were.

1) Did you write lines like those, "The deep end," "Hard to program good help..." or was that purly the writers?

Peter V. Carlos: "Cloud Fathers" deals with a serious topic. I know someone like Peter who hasn't spoken to a relative for a while. I know what it does to people, so I know what Peter might have been going through.

The Pool: I know it was a swimming pool right off the bat. My friends and I watched "Gargs" at 4:30 (we did it almost every weekday together) and I remember saying to my friends, "Man, that Skiff goes everywhere! Will it show up in my bathtub?"

I actually hated this episode the first few tiems I saw it. My friend (who i watched the show with) is Native, from New Mexico (He moved to Canada) and he thought the episode mocked native culture. Well we were wrong, and we actually like the episode a whole lot more now.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Cloud Fathers" ramble, Greg!

I will confess that I can't remember from my first-time viewing whether I was surprised or not by the revelation at the end that Carlos Maza had passed on. However, I do find myself wondering, whenever I watch it on tape now, whenever either Elisa or Beth asks Peter if he wants to "go visit grandfather" while he's in town, how many first-time viewers did suspect that Carlos was dead, and how many were surprised.

Arizona, incidentally, now has a little more personal significance to me than it did when the episode first aired; my mother and stepfather moved there a few years ago (they live in the Phoenix area). They've sometimes mentioned Flagstaff in conversations with me, but haven't as yet mentioned anything about sand-carvings of Coyote or Kachina dancers. :)

Xanatos's "cliched villainy" line is a particular favorite of mine; only Xanatos would make such a remark! Though the bit where he admits that he has no desire to kill Goliath or any of the other gargoyles - this is just a necessary part of his coyote-trap - definitely stands out to me as well. You don't see the main antagonist saying that to the hero too often in an animated adventure series!

I liked the touch of the Cauldron of Life being incorporated into Coyote 4.0. (As I mentioned once in chat, it reminds me a bit of the scene in "Camelot 3000" where Mordred incorporates the Holy Grail into his armor.) The mention of the iron obviously was a foreshadowing of what was coming in the very next episode. (Was Xanatos's follow-up remark of "Ironic" intended as a pun, by the way?)

I also got a kick out of the mild confusion over "Which Coyote are we talking about here?" - the best part of all being when Coyote the Trickster threatens to sue Xanatos for trademark infringement. (And Xanatos's response that he's a "trickster at heart" rings true to me - the man's living proof that you don't have to be a Child of Oberon to be a trickster. He fulfills the archetype just as surely as Puck, Raven, and the rest do.)

I hadn't noticed the similarity of the Coyote robot to Wile E. Coyote until you mentioned it here at "Ask Greg" (not in this ramble, but in earlier answers to questions), but I certainly see it now. (Though, judging from the name of a certain merchant in "Vendettas", Coyote the robot isn't the only "Gargoyles" character to be influenced by Wile E. Coyote!)

So the multiple trickster story was what you'd originally planned for the Puck-and-Alex story before you decided to merge it with the Cold Trio for "Possession"?

Thanks for another enjoyable ramble, Greg.

Heather writes...

I not asking a question. I'am just writing to rave about the Gargoyles season one dvd. I loved it. Ever since I was able to say the word Gargoyles I have watched the show religiously. I was so excited to see the first season I screamed in joy when I saw it on the shelf at the store. I have really high hopes that the second and third season will come out on dvd soon. I really hope so. Cause that would be so cool!

Mercy writes...

I have no questions, just writing my review and support for the Gargoyles DVD.

I love it so much. I watched it all the minute I ripped it out of the Christmas wrapping!It brought back so many memories! I was fourteen when the show aired and watching it all over again has made me more aware of storylines I didn't pay attention to before. Really, no other animated series has ever topped Gargoyles.
I especially love the commentaries and wished there had been more, but I'm sure that's simply asking too much. I love all the inside information and spoilers. I especially enjoyed the warmth and humor through out the commentaries.
I would like to put in my part in saying that I desperately, desperately want to see Gargoyles Season II come out and soon. I may be a poor college student but I would happily spend my financial aid money to buy season two instead of textbooks!

On another note, I want to thank you Greg Weisman for adding Shakespeare into the series. It inspired me to read Shakespeare, love Shakespeare and now I'm on my last year of college hoping to one day soon, teach Shakespeare.

N. Shaffer writes...

This is just a brief post to let everyone (especially the folks at Disney) know how wonderful the first season of Gargoyles DVD set is. I got it for Christmas and have watched it at least three times since then, hooking a new generation of kids too young to have seen the show during its original airing. I'm particularly glad the decision was made to keep "Deadly Force" in the set, instead of removing it entirely for its 'excessive violence'. That episode truly highlights the danger of guns, and I was very proud that my young nieces and nephews were able to grasp that concept immediately. I am waiting with impatience for the release of seasons two and three; they definitely have one sale already in the bag. Thank you.

Brian writes...

It's funny how you would bring up "Ask Greg" in the commentary on the fifth episode of the five-part pilot. You've asked us to review the DVD so I'm going to give mine. I'll try to touch base with the same elements I have reviewed at Amazon.com, and if I don't get to them all, oh well. I'm only human.

Anyway...

First all, I have to say I like how much better it looks compared to when it was aired on television. I know, duh everything looks better on DVD than it does on television. But being able to see it in it's original, unedited form. I haven't seen it like that for a very long time. That is definately a plus.

I put the disc in, skip the introductory crud, and the first thing I see is the animated menu. I don't know how many times I just let it run through, I mean it is that good. I have never seen anything like it. Now getting back to the introductory crud, Power Rangers? How the hell did Disney ever have anything to do with Power Rangers? Ok, back on topic...

I start the whole thing through beginning with the five-part pilot. I like having all the key elements to the story unlike what The Heroes Awaken VHS that I got for Christmas nine years ago lacks. Back then I found that to be a disappointment. Another great disappointment that has been taken care of very well is Deadly Force. Not only is it there, but Elisa is lying in the pool of blood on the kitchen floor too. Not a single element has been booted out, and we can thank Disney for finally righting this wrong. If you ask me, justice has finally been served.

The audio commentary on the five-part pilot, though identified as spoilerish by a few others that have viewed it, tells of how this great idea came to pass and how the five-part pilot sets the stage for the upcoming events through the second season. I thought it was well done. Hearing the comment about the show pitch and seeing the tape that pulled through definately puts this rule of thumb into perspective - Don't you dare quit. Quitters only gain nothing.

Now for the part that says, "Where's the beef?" Viewing the part on the Gathering is the closest I've been to one. And according to a comment I have found here somewhere about costing $800 just for the trip, it's the closest I'm probably ever going to get. I'm like, dude, it costs that much $$ just to get there? As if I wasn't furious enough that I've never been to one. No plan D here. I'll have become a gargoyle long before I have the dough to cover all those expenses. Since all I have for this is beef I think I'll move on.

I would like to see the second season come out, but I feel there are a few things about it that need to be addressed. Compared to the first season, which has 13 episodes, the second season has a long string of 51. In order to put this on DVD, there are two possible outcomes. We would either find it on a set of four discs, or on a set of two double-sided discs. I think the double-sided ones would be better because it would fit in a regular case instead of a big monstrosity. Either way, it'll be a bit pricey but worth it. So a word to the wise - now is the time to start saving up for it.

Tom Lahr writes...

Hello. I wasn't sure where to put this so I decided to submit it this way. I heard that in Febuary talks will be held to decide if Gargoyles season 2 and onwards should be put on DVD, and that people should write brief reviews of the show that could be shown to execs and such to show why we need season 2 on DVD. I should probally start with the fact that I didn't watch the original broadcasts. For some reason I just "missed" the show. However I had seen a few episodes prior to my DVD purchase due to the fact that Disney still shows Gargoyles every so often. I had high expectations when I bought the DVD, due to the fact that Gargoyles has a HUGE fanbase, just like Family Guy, one of my other favorite animated shows. Let me tell you, the DVDs didn't dissapoint. I loved everything about the show, from the beautiful choice of colors used to animate night in Manhattan to the brilliant script and acting. The only thing I would want different in the 2nd season boxset is MORE COMMENTARY! I found the commentary on the first 5 episodes facinating, and if the 2nd season had commentary on (hopefully most of) the episodes I would be estatic! I don't want to ramble any further, but all I can say is that I want more! I never got the chance to see how the series progresses, and a Season 2 DVD release would finally let me see how the series plays out.

Kelsi Parker writes...

I was lucky enough to recieve the Gargoyles Season one DVD for Christmas, and reaffirmed my love of the show. I think I appreciate it now more than ever, since I've read some Shakespeare and no longer rely on Disney Adventures for fandom news. Through various internet linkages, I discovered your site, and think it's amazingly wonderful that you're still feeding our obsession.

Watching the show as a kid, I saw a cool story, interesting imagery, and something worth running to the television for when it came on. Watching as an adult, I still see the cool story and amazing visuals, but also the tiny details, little tidbits that are easily overlooked in a casual viewing. I would like to add my voice to those asking to see the further seasons released on DVD, as the first has only whet my appetite for more.

Jay R Kreige writes...

Gargoyles is the best show ever made. Thank you Mr. Weisman, the cast and crew, and especially Disney for taking a chance and scoring big with myself, and all those who still love the show, and those who have just been distracted, thank you.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Bushido" ramble, Greg!

I hadn't realized the "Awakening" parallel (at least, not the parallel with the 994 portion of "Awakening") until you brought it up (not in this ramble, actually, but in an earlier reply here at "Ask Greg"), but it certainly works for me. And I agree that Yama, fortunately for the gargs, had held on to more of his courage and understanding of the "gargoyle way" than Demona had (I especially liked the scene where he discovers to his disgust that Taro had been lying about the first visitors to the theme park being a group of schoolchildren who wished to learn bushido - the fact that he had believed that those would be the first visitors illustrates his good intentions there).

The Ishimura gargoyles remind me a little of the tengu, a race of winged beings in Japanese legend who sometimes taught humans bushido (continuing the concept that you'd used in the Avalon World Tour of tying gargoyles in with other legends, as I mentioned before).

I agree with you that Taro isn't up to Xanatos's level. For one thing, though Xanatos might get defeated, he always did so in a way that essentially preserved his dignity; I simply cannot imagine him winding up dangling from a gigantic animatronic gargoyle in front of a crowd of reporters. (For that matter, I also can't help wondering why Taro would have wanted to have the reporters show up at dawn rather than dusk to get their first glimpse of the gargoyles; if I wanted to introduce people to gargoyles in an impressive way, I'd want it to be when they were bursting out of their stone shells in the evening. That'd be much more powerful and dramatic.)

Yama's concerns about gargoyle secrecy certainly worked for me, and although he went about solving the problem in the wrong way, I can certainly agree with him about the secrecy having its drawbacks. It does strike me that part of the reason why humans fear gargoyles is because about all that they usually see of them is their charging about growling, with eyes glowing, in battle-fury - a condition that certainly makes it easier to jump to the wrong conclusion about them. Would humans be so ready to make that mistake if they got to see more of the gargoyles when they weren't simply fighting? Also, there's the danger that if you just keep secret, somebody else might reveal you to the world under less favorable circumstances than the ones that you'd have chosen (such as claiming on a news broadcast that you blew up a police station in New York). It does make one wonder whether the gargoyles have been a little too passive in working for peace with humans, just sitting around and hoping that the humans will learn to accept them on their own, rather than actively working towards it.

And I got a big kick out of the metareferencing in Elisa's "TV stars" line, and Goliath's horrified cry of "No!" (Goliath's line was made all the funnier, for me, by Keith David's reading of it - making it sound as if Goliath truly considered such a prospect a fate worse than death!)

Perhaps one of the most important aspects of "Bushido" is that it shows a community where humans and gargoyles live together harmoniously, showing that Goliath's belief that such a thing is possible is indeed accurate. (We saw a bit of that on Avalon, but that was an unusual case - humans raising young gargoyles as if they were adopted children. This is a more "conventional" community.) Hope is indeed possible.

Again, thank you for the ramble.

Storyseeker writes...

Just to let people know that I received the Garg DVD, and it was absolutely brilliant! The special features were ace, I loved watching the interviews from folks at the Gathering. It was the closest I've ever come to actually going to the convention, so it was cool to see what the place was like. It was quite funny when I saw some of the original pictures for the clan and I saw the one of Hudson, as he looked more like a dog than Bronx ever did. And all the sound and picture quality on all the episodes was excellent, I enjoyed watching the 1st season again and again and again...

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Sentinel" ramble, Greg!

I can no longer remember a lot of my initial responses to the episodes in "Gargoyles", but I can for "Sentinel". And what I remember most about it was this: when I saw the two archaeologists from "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" in the "Previously On" section, I eagerly thought that the episode would have something to do with King Arthur and Griff's quest for Merlin (which I wanted to see more of), since Morwood-Smith and Duane were the ones who'd discovered the Scrolls of Merlin. And I was at first a bit disappointed when it turned out that the background mythology was Easter Island and ancient astronauts, instead - though at least it had that "Holy Grail" line. I've come to accept that since then, however (I suspect that the Quest for Merlin would have worked far better in the projected "Pendragon" spin-off, anyway, since it would be too artificial to have Arthur and Griff constantly bumping into the Manhattan clan on their search).

You can feel reassured that I never thought that the gargoyles were aliens, either before or after the episode. Mostly this was due to the fact that I'd always seen them as fantasy creatures rather than science-fiction creatures; living gargoyles are found far more often in fantasy than science fiction, Goliath and his clan originally hailed from medieval Scotland (and medieval settings fit the fantasy genre better than the sci-fi genre, though they aren't necessarily incompatible with it), their means of being brought into the 20th century involved a wizard's spell, etc.

The business with the amnesiac Elisa struck me as well-handled, although I'm afraid that I don't have anything more to say about it than you already have.

And, yep, I'm afraid that Elisa does wear her short-sleeved black shirt on the Avalon World Tour - and what makes it all the more embarrassing is that we see it on the preceding episode, "The Green"!

I will confess that, although he showed seriously faulty judgment at first, I rather like Nokkar. Despite his stubbornness in believing the gargoyles to be agents for the Space-Spawn, he also displayed a strong sense of concern over the world that he was supposed to protect. After subduing Goliath, he immediately turns to Elisa and asks her if she's all right. He trusts her enough to give her the guided tour of his spaceship. And he chooses to ask her first why she helped the gargoyles escape instead of taking a "shoot first, ask questions" later attitude - and accepts her answer, recognizing that he'd been in the wrong. It makes the resolution at the end (including his finding some new friends) all the more convincing - and makes it clear that he truly is a "protector-figure" like Goliath and Elisa.

Gingitsune writes...

I don't have a question, actually I was just directed here from another part of Station 8 were it was said you wanted commentary on the DVD. Best DVD Ever, for the best show ever created, I cannot thank you enough for creating this great series. I was fascinated by the commentary on the "Awakening" and even more thrilled when it directed me to this site. Thank you again, I cannot wait for season 2 to be released on DVD, which hopefully is in the works!

WingedBeast writes...

I recently got the DVD and there's little enough I can say about the episodes without launching into long rambles.

I looked at the extras, the commentary had a lot of nice information that put little bits in a light. Kieth David's growl not needing reverb... there are odd lengths I would go through if I could count on getting a voice like that.

But, above all, let me thank you for making the changes to the series that you did from the original pitch.

I do think that the more rounded image of the Gargoyles would have been a nice look to them. It reminded me more of the savagery of a rabbid gorrila than the Gargoyles I know which are animalistic in the proud vissage of an eagle. (sort of, I mean, Lexington is a little too cute to be eagle-esque, but there you go).

But, mostly, I like the fact that the Trio aren't just a mischevious group of kids. They're warriors from a time when you had to grow up fast. Yeah, they get in trouble and act pretty much like you'd expect brothers to act, but the seriousness in them makes the funny bits all the funnier.

Finally, best for last, thank you for making Bronx not into an ear-flapping comedy piece. Bronx is so much better as this dog-like beast than he is as something that chews on fire-hydrants.

And, to look to Awakenings, Bronx's reaction to the Trio giving him a name is far better comedy than eating various things. It's just such a perfect dog-like animal reaction, the kind that makes you think he knows exactly what's being said. If I could put words to his reaction, it would be "If you're going to name me, leave me out of it."

All in all, thank you for making the changes you did.

El Kevo writes...

I loved this show when I was but a young lad but, as many people do, I grew up and forgot about it. Then one day two years ago, quite by accident, I found this website. It rekindled my love for the show and brought me back to a place I hadn't been in years. I started to watch the reruns on Toon Disney almost religiously and become obsessed all over again. I started checking this site daily, hoping to hear some news that Gargoyles was coming back in some way, either in a new form or a release of the classic in DVD format. Finally the news came and I was ecstatic.

Got the Season One DVD for Christmas and I must say FANFREAKIN'TASTIC!

Comments:
Starting with the menus, I loved them. Slow? Yes, but I didn't mind, they looked good. Then I selected to watch Awakening with the commentary. Loved it. Most of it we have read here on Ask Greg, but there were some other things that I hadn't and was interested to find out.

And I have to agree with Mr. David, one of my favorite lines from anything ever is "Know her? I named her!"

All the other episodes looked great! Haven't looked better. Even Enter Macbeth, which in my opinion was lacking the most visually, looked great.

The sound quality was great too! Hearing that music clear and crisp and all the great voices, I was in heaven.

Complaints/Botherings
There's only one thing I would have liked to see and that's more commentary. I'm sure all of you are busy and probably don't have a whole lot of time to just sit around and talk about episodes, and yes we have your Rambles here on Ask Greg, but it would have been nice. Other than that, loved it!

And though the other extras were few, they were great. I loved seeing the original pitch, seeing how the ideas started out and then comparing them to how they turned out.

In conclusion to this rambling collection of praise and my personal story with your amazing show I would like to say thank you and I hope the DVD does good enough for a Season Two release and hopefully the rebirth of Gargoyles.

StarCreator writes...

I just finished watching the first season DVD. Since Ask Greg seems to be open for questions again (probably proving how infrequently I stop in), I figured it would be as good a place as any to leave my comments.

The first thing I checked out was the commentary. It's always interesting to hear the staff talk about their work, and you get some gems of information you would never hear otherwise. However, I'm a bit disappointed that Keith didn't talk a little bit more frequently in the three episodes of commentary that he participated in. Not that disappointed though, since he did have a few good bits here and there.

That bit about the gun change surprised me; even though my old VHS tape from TV had all the next ep previews/credits/openings cut to run the whole thing in sequence, I had never noticed. Nearly fell out of my couch for that one.

One bit about "The Thrill of the Hunt": one scene that I definitely didn't remember from previous viewings was a gargoyle statue's head being smashed as the Pack scaled the building to chase Goliath and Lexington. Nice to see some cut bits of episodes put back in their rightful places - this little bit makes that scene make that much more sense.

By the time I got to "Deadly Force" (and wow, I just typo'd that as "Deafly Force" there for a minute), I was impressed at how far the envelope was pushed in this series, considering the target audience and timeslot it had. In this episode alone, we not only have the dead body chalk outline on the street, but Elisa actually flatlining for a bit. Wow.

We also have Goliath referring to the first meal of the night as "dinner" here, while two episodes later in "The Edge", Broadway refers to it as "breakfast". I wonder if that means their food choices for said first meal are similarly different...

I think that's all I really wanted to say about the content of the show - since if I went into complete praise and gushing, I'd probably have a novel on my hands. I'd probably also end up derailing myself even further with all my random comments I keep inserting. But rewatching these episodes reminded me of how impressive and epic the series is, and even with a decade of age, that feeling hasn't changed.

Whoa, hey, the blurb about the DVD to my left that I've been staring as while writing this mispells Keith David's first name.

Woo, derailed again.

On the technical side of things now...

DVD menus were fairly OK. Transition times are a bit too long for my taste, but for the most part didn't bother me that much. The imagery is interesting - I was a little bit put off with the main menu animation at first, but I warmed up to it after letting it loop a couple of times. I like the use of the theme song in its original incarnation to depict a duality between the calm of the gargoyles' stone sleep and their nighttime awakening.

I also like how both the Sun and the Moon rise and set in the same direction.

One big thing that surprised me was the lack of chapter stops within each episode. A long history of collecting anime DVDs has taught me that episodes should always be chaptered for quick and easy seeking - in this case, I expected chaptering for Opening, Previously+Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, End Credits. With every episode stored onto its own chapter, I ended up having to memorize the times of points I wanted to return to should I want to jump around, which I think is a tremendous inconvenience for something so easily implemented.

Video quality was impressive, as far as I could tell from the old TV I was watching on. The show pretty much looked just the way it did when I first watched it on TV, without nasty artifacts from our poor terrestrial reception. I was particularly impressed that all the scenes I spot-checked didn't show any combed frames as I stepped through. I bet this would look marvelous on the HDTV.

Keith's growl bit at the Gathering amuses me. I wonder how many times he can do that consecutively. I'd probably have no voice left after one attempt.

I'm left wondering why, after there was a decently-sized Gathering featurette, that there was no link to the Gathering website or any information on the Gathering at Las Vegas in 2005. I thought it would have been the perfect place to put it, unless there are some legal reasons that prevent such a thing. (I was also kind of expecting a disclaimer stating that the Gathering was not affiliated in any way with Walt Disney Co., etc., etc...)

And I think I'll end my disjointed mad ramblings here before inflicting mental harm on any who would happen to read it. Again, I'm glad I finally have the DVD in my hands, and aside from a couple of minor technical gripes, it's fantastic and I have all hopes for getting some more in my hands too.

Anonymous writes...

I do not have a question, but a swell comment. Thank you Disney for my favorite cartoon on DVD! Out of all the Disney cartoons that I have seen, Gargoyles tops the cake. Please hurry out with Gargoyles Season 2 on DVD. You will make all of us fans of this show quite happy!

Marc writes...

I picked up the Gargoyles box set 2 weeks ago, and must say I really enjoyed it. The time the DVD makers put in on the menus really impressed me. I haven't watched the show in a long time, and about forgot how great it was. I am really looking forward to the second season comming out on DVD.

Great work, on a great show.
Marc

Todd Jensen writes...

I finally bought a DVD player yesterday, and watched much of the Gargoyles DVD on it; to be precise, all five parts of "Awakening" with the commentary on, "Deadly Force", the original pitch, and the Gathering documentary. I very much enjoyed the experience as well (once I got used to how to work the DVD player, of course).

I very much liked the commentary, though I'd only recommend it to people who've already become familiar with the series since it contains a number of spoilers (such as Owen really being Puck, the prediction of Xanatos creating the Mutates and Thailog, the prediction of Xanatos making peace with the gargoyles at the end of Season Two, etc.). I did have a little trouble sometimes working out whether it was you or Frank Paur speaking (though I didn't have that trouble with Keith David; his voice is definitely unmistakable).

While much of it was information that I'd already learned from "Ask Greg" and my visit to the 2001 Gathering, there were some new things there that stood out to me, as well as a few old things that I thought I'd briefly comment on:

1. You mentioned about how much of the set-up of Part One of "Awakening" (with the opening scene of the stones falling from the top of the Eyrie Building and the preview of Part Two with Xanatos, the Eyrie Building, the commandos, etc.) was to reassure the audience that "Gargoyles" would be mostly set in the present-day rather than in the 10th century, for fear that they would be turned off the series if they thought that it would be set in the Middle Ages. Interestingly enough, for me when I started watching "Gargoyles", it was the reverse; my favorite part of "Awakening" was the 10th century introduction, and one of my biggest thoughts during it was "Pity that this is just the origin story and that the bulk of the series is going to be in the modern world". (How I'd have enjoyed the "Dark Ages" spin-off!)

2. You mentioned about Goliath being in the wrong to send the trio and Bronx down to the rookery (though with the irony that he thereby saved their lives). When I saw the episode, I always thought that Goliath had done the right thing in punishing Lexington, Brooklyn, and Bronx, however, since regardless of the fact that the humans had started the fight, the three of them were still helping to escalate the hostilities (and all that growling with eyes glowing obviously would only reinforce the humans' fear of gargoyles). Where I did think that Goliath was in the wrong was in sending Broadway with them, since he hadn't been in the fight at all, but was merely peacefully eating at the time.

3. One little bit that still amuses me (part of "Awakening" itself, I might add, though not part of the commentary) is that, directly after Xanatos's line "Pay a man enough, and he'll walk barefoot into Hell", we see one of the workmen dismantling the castle for transportation, with the close-up on his feet (although they're in shoes).

4. I honestly hadn't realized (until you pointed it out here) that Goliath's request of the Magus was suicidal, maybe because I was then aware of the fact that the series was just starting and that the gargoyles were going to be somehow awakened in modern times. But when I looked at it from his perspective rather than that of a viewer who was aware that it was a television series, I realized that it was indeed the case, that Goliath couldn't have known that someday, the castle could rise above the clouds. Which meant that he wasn't asking to be placed under the spell so that he could be there when Hudson, the trio, and Bronx were awakened (as I'd subconsciously assumed) because he didn't think that that would ever happen, but just to gain release from the misery of loneliness.

5. Your remarks about Xanatos being designed to appear deceptively heroic definitely brought back memories for me. When I first saw "Awakening", I didn't know for certain whether Xanatos would be a friend or an opponent to the gargoyles until Part Five, but I wanted to believe that he was on their side, that he was on the level, even though a part of me had suspicions that he would turn out to be the antagonist. And it wasn't until Elisa revealed to Goliath in Part Five about what had really gone on in the Cyberbiotics raids that I had to accept that Xanatos was up to no good.

6. The significance of the Alice in Wonderland sculptures during the scene where Elisa was being chased by the commandos was definitely new to me; I had only thought of them as part of the background, and hadn't realized that they were also symbolic of the new world that she'd just discovered.

7. And thanks for confirming my suspicion that Demona's "a thousand years of solitude" remark was a hommage to Gabriel Garcia Marquez.

8. About Demona revealing her name: that scene always worked for me as dramatic and threatening. What stands out to me about it now, though, was how the expectations or assumptions that I'd had from that line turned out to not match what actually happened in the series. I had believed then that her name arose out of terrified humans whom she was preying upon viewing her as a nightmare straight out of Hell, and then, in "City of Stone", it turns out that she was given that name by a then-ally, and as a means of praising her fighting skills. Talk about skewering the audience's expectations!

I enjoyed seeing the original presentation again. One thing that stands out to me about it now is that, even though the series had by this time clearly switched to a more dramatic genre, there was still a much more strongly comical tone about it than the final version, as in:

1. The depiction of Goliath reading in the 10th century, while seated on a few annoyed-looking smaller gargoyles to keep them out of mischief.

2. The picture of Goliath and Elisa on a subway train, with Goliath wearing a lot of heavy garments to hide the fact that he's a gargoyle, but still getting a lot of attention from the other passengers (which I honestly can't imagine happening in the series itself, though we did get to see Broadway in the trenchcoat and fedora a couple of times).

3. Bronx (looking astonishingly anthropomorphic there) chewing on a fire hydrant.

All in all, I really enjoyed the DVD, and am looking forward to the Season Two ones.

Blaise writes...

THE GREEN

I mentioned back in MARK OF THE PANTHER that I feard that episode would be focused on the illegal poaching angle, and become less of a story, more of a "public service announcement" of sorts. I said back then that, in my experience, when a show is focused on (or does an episode focused on) certain issues (especially environmental ones for some reason) it seems to sacrifice plot, character, and even believability to force its moral across.
Thankfully, that does not happen in this episode, or in any episode of GARGOYLES that I can think of.
Granted there are *some* lines that come close to being preachy. I find myself laughing at the "Forget me, save the trees!" line. And Zaphiro's "There is no such thing as a few trees," while admittidly cool and well-delivered, initially struck me as so absolutist and dogmatic.
Now, in that last case, I would have felt better if the conversation between Zaphiro and Elisa continued after that (maybe with Zaphiro pointing out that rainforest soil is absolutely worthless for farming). This is another one of those times I really wish GARGOYLES had hour-long episodes.
Actually, I really do like that scene between Elisa and Zaphiro because Elisa plays devil's advocate--she actually tries to see things from the side of the "forest defilers." Going back to what I said about other "environmentally-minded" shows and episodes, things have a tendency to be drawn completely in black and white--anyone who chops down a tree is evil to the core, basically. Broad strokes and caricatures.
Let's look at "Captain Planet and the Planeteers," for example. From what I remember, they had a cadre of "Eco-villains" who largely seemed to be destroying the environment because they enjoyed doing so. And it was specifically the environment that they enjoyed destroying. In some cases, they had a motivation (oftimes greed, though one character needed radiation to survive), but mostly they seemed to do it because they enjoyed polluting. If a normal person was doing "bad things" it was because they were under the influence of one of the big bad-guys, and by the end said normal people saw the error of their ways and turned around. Thus, it doesn't seem terribly realistic to me.
Contrast this with MONONOKE HIME ("Princess Mononoke"), one of my favorite animated movies. The "forest defiler," Lady Eboshi, while she can be quite ruthless and capitalistic, has a heart. She frees women from prostitution and takes care of lepers. She has depth, and this makes her more realistic and identifiable. Thus I was able to take this movie seriously, and more fully appreciate humanity's impact on the natural world.

And thankfully, THE GREEN is much closer to MONONOKE HIME than "Captain Planet." Much of this comes from Elisa. In addition to the scene I already mentioned, I LOVE the scene between her and Goliath at the pyramid when he leaves to protect The Green. She argues from the human point of view, in essence still playing devil's advocate, but she can fully sympathize with the gargoyles. And while Goliath can understand Elisa's point of view, he can see little other choice for the gargoyles trying to save The Green than the guerilla attacks. Even the Mayan clan seems to understand (Turquesa is a bit snappish about the "misguided laws," but Jade seems downright cheerful towards Elisa).
And as for the "villains" themselves, Jackal and Hyena are the only real ones, and their primary interest is the money. They don't show any specific enjoyment out of destroying the rainforest (even Jackal's destruction of trees stems from his trying to keep the gargoyles from doing anymore damage and--heck--he just likes destroying stuff, period). Vogel, and through him Cyberbiotics, are the "big bad" employing Jackal and Hyena, but again it's about the money and not a gleeful hatred for the environment (Environmental Ethics for Businesses: "Care about the environment unless it costs you money."). Even the workers are just doing their jobs (and they're probably as unnerved by Jackal and Hyena as they are the gargoyles). The destruction of the rainforest is, as is often the case in real life, the direct side effect of pursuing other goals (as opposed to the ultimate goal of some malefactor).

Okay, NOW we can get down to smaller details.
I LOVED seeing the new gargoyles. Zaphiro's design was excellent! And Hector Elizondo's voice-work was wonderful. The whole cast did a great job, in fact (and was the Jesse Corti playing Jade the same fellow who played Le Fou in BEAUTY AND THE BEAST?).
The "flesh by day and night" thing was nice--we don't often get to see the gargs in sun-lit environments.
And it was great seeing Jackal and Hyena again, and they actually managaed to be more unnerving than ever. There are the scenes you and Erin mentioned (a headless Hyena is pretty intimidating), but the whole "retract eye/ear" thing creeps me out, too. Those long cords are rewinding into their SKULLS!! And the sound Hyena's earpiece makes when it goes back in her ear...[shudder].
Admittidly, Jackal did have a nice plan, and if it weren't for the amulet being in New York it might have worked. I find it strange that Hyena seems to think being in NY again is a good "omen." Then again, she likes fighting the gargs, so....

I was pleased to no end to see Broadway and Lexington show up again. And their fight with Hyena was well staged (though the destruction of the various exhibits sets my teeth on edge, as well). You brought up Broadway's clan mentality towards maternity (the plural "mothers"), but what I find interesting is Hyena's use of the singular ("mamma"), which almost seems to indicate that she already in her mind sees these guys as brothers.
RE: the head injury. Yeah, that's another one of those things Toon Disney cuts out. Hyena's holding her head in pain was actually a nice touch, though.

I like the look on Jackal's face when Vogel points out the little "contractual oddity." I almost wonder if Vogel enjoyed needling Jackal on some level.
Actually, I must say I was surprised to see Vogel here. I mean, if any corporation was supposed to be "behind it all" shouldn't it be Xanatos Enterprises--the "bad guy's" company? Instead, it's the company headed by a good man, but run (while said good man is ill) by a rather unemotional businessman. It actually helped with the message and increased the depth of both Vogel and Renard. You get the sense that while Vogel may not like Jackal and Hyena (or their actions) he puts it aside in favor of results.
Still, his deciding to pull Cyberbiotics out of the rainforest entirely seemed a bit too pat. Despite that, though, it's pretty well handled.

I would have loved getting a chance to listen to Broadway and Lex's rationale for ultimately not destroying the amulet. I kind of figured they wouldn't, and having seen Obsidiana lose her pendant and Bronx find it I kind of figured out what the ruse would be.

Dang, but Morgan's casual with Hyena the killer cyborg. Unconcious or not, I'd wait until I was packing a nuclear weapon before I got near her.

Jackal doesn't kill Elisa. He tasers her unconcious, but doesn't kill her right off. Why? I just find myself wondering if he didn't have even WORSE things planned for her.

Elisa comes up with a sort of back-up solution that I had been wondering about for quite some time before this episode aired. It always struck me as being advisable to collect "genetic samples" of endangered plant and animal life "just in case." So I rather liked Elisa's contribution here.

A couple final thoughts: I liked that the gargs never referred to the rainforest as such. It was always "the forest" or, even better, "The Green." I love their using a title for this land they hold in reverence.
Also, the "Oxygen" line you mentioned. It is a valid point (one that I keep forgetting, I'll admit), but, yeah, it may have been a bit difficult to pull off without feeling preachy or forced (I could only see Elisa saying this line since the Mayan clan strike me as mostly knowing their own turf--they know the forest is important, but they may not know how globally necessary it is).

It's a good episode, and a well done "special message" ep. And hey, more gargoyles (and cool looking ones at that)!

Kettir writes...

This is regarding the Gargoyles first season DVD set--

Hurrah! I love this series and hope very much that the remaining seasons will be put on DVD as well. This is my favorite Christmas present for 2004!

Enigma writes...

I got Gargoyles for Christmas!!! I was/am so happy, especially since I've been reading everyone else rave about the DVD during the past 2-3 weeks. I started screaming with joy when I opened the box and found Gargoyles inside. I think I was even more excited than my little sisters were about any of their presents. (They're usually the ones shrieking for joy). All of I got to say is that it looks awesome. I watched all five parts of Awakening yesterday morning and Trill of the Hunt this morning and it looked and sounded awesome. The funniest part is that my eight year old sister kept going "that wasn't in the movie" when we were watching Awakening, since we have the Gargoyles: The Heroes Awaken movie and she's seen it a million times.
Anyway, I just had to share my joy! Now, we just need season 2! <My sisters keep asking me if we have "the episode where that guy picks Elisa up on the motorbike" <for example, she's referring to the end of Hunter's Moon Part 2> and keep having to tell them that no that episode is from season 2.> Now they're convinced that all the good episodes are from the second season. <sigh> It's funny though too...

SDOHT writes...

Rambling on Demona

Hello,
I just finish watching awakening part one to five, from the DVD, witch I love by the way, and it reminded me of the first time I saw Demona. She is my all-time favourite TV Character. I actually feel sorry for her. The talk between her and Goliath at the end when she revels for the first time that she made a plan with the Captain of the guards moved me. I love the way she is written. She sounds alone and I feel and hear her pain.

See I'm a 22 year old gay guy, so when I first saw this I was 12. I didn't really know that I was gay but I knew their was something different about me. Seeing that scene helped me in a weird way. Hearing Demona's pain and loneliness about what the humans "did" to her kind sort of mad me feel like I wasn't alone. Demona's way of blaming others for her mistakes is something that most people do in one way or an other. I can truly say that I felt like she did allot of the time( I didn't want to kill all straight guys) but I felt like they didn't except me and that I couldn't trust anyone. Demona's actions were also mostly responsible for her pain, as the sisters pointed out in COS part 4, just like my fear of being different mad me feel alone.

Later in life I realized that people fear what they don't understand. The whole show is about creatures being different and misunderstood by "normal" people. It help me better understand the other's way of looking at things, that to them I was like a monster( not really a monster but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.) As the show when on, it helped me realize that different wasn't always a bad thing. The Goliath and Elisa relationship gave me hope that maybe someone could love me for who I was and except my differences.

I understand Demona's pain, Marina Sirtis is so amazing in this role. Demona is written so fantastic and realistically that its like she was a voice for me( in a good way, again not the killing part) like she mirrored what I felt. Now I'm fully comfortable with my self and in a way I have Gargoyles to thanks for that. I herd in the commentaries that ( I'm typing from memory, so please forgive me if I'm misquoting you) you indented the show, among other thing, to have or be a voice for the little people. I just wanted to say that at least for me it help me a lot when I was younger. I felt like the were other people in the world that were different. Thank you for that.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I been wanting to thank you for a long time. I truly hope that Disney bring this show back, because people like me need more shows like this, with real characters that are normal.

Greg Bishansky writes...

Some thoughts on our favorite characters and love.

So far in the "Gargoyles" Universe, the characters that all in real true love all have a deep understanding for one another. David and Fox understand each other better than anyone else on the planet does, and David acknowledges her as his equal. Maybe both of them didn't understand themselves well enough to think they were not that capable of such emotions, but they knew each other.

Goliath and Elisa are similar, it was clear even early on that they had something there, they grew to trust each other with their lives. There was always respect, and they understand one another, even when they disagree.

Likewise with Broadway and Angela, he saw her for who she was, unlike Brooklyn. All these characters seem to in a way share the same soul.

Now in regards to Demona, she's failed in love twice because that deep, emotional, soul sharing understanding faded as in the case with Goliath, but even before then she went behind his back, tried to push him to seize leadership of the clan, which he would not do, and could never understand why he put up with the humans. Not that she didn't understand him, in some cases she knew him only too well, since she saw the sparks between Goliath and Elisa long before they realized they were there. As far as Thailog goes, she thought that he was the Goliath she always wanted, and turned out to be flat out wrong, since he just planned to use her (in more ways than one) and finally discard her when he was done.

You've said in the past that Demona will have two more great loves, what will be interesting to see is by standards set by other characters where there is a similar "sharing of the soul" as it were. This deep, emotional understanding and knowing of one another. Problem is, it would be very hard for anyone to truly know her without having experienced similar tragedies. Everyone has their tragedies, but how many people have been alive for centuries, being hunted, bearing strong grudges and longer hatreds. Demona is her own worst enemy, and is likely to sabotage such things, and that's on the big assumption that she even opens herself up to anyone again.

One or both of those next great loves had better truly be someone special, if she's going to come out of her shell and really learn to care for someone intimately again.

Vicious writes...

Finally aquiring the Gargs dvd has gotten my mind spinning on the possibility of the story's return in any format, but specifically television, and what kind of audience and content it would aim for.

I am watching temptation right now, and the first part of it is fairly heavy material. Demona showing Brook domestic trouble, violence and her general talk of humanity's evil (which i have taken to heart, she's right you know) wouldn't get past S&P or any such triff nowadays. Censorhip seemed to get in the way back in 94 as well, there are examples i could site but that would take a long time. I'll just say mobsters aren't really known for using tear gas in high jacking, at least if the supranos is any indication. The only recent show i can think to compare to Gargs is X-men Evolution, and Justice League, one is cancled and the other I've never seen on Saturday morning but rather prime time weekends.
The point and question it raises are thus: Gargoyles was always more mature than any north american animation of it's time, and television content limitations for the age bracket Gargs was originally intended for have gotten more restrictive.
If it was your choice, what kind of maturity level in terms of target audience and content would you aim for?

My opinions:With disney no doubt s&p would be cutting out everything not soft and fuzzy if it was intended for the 6 to 12 set again (or whatever demographic it was, don't remember). The fan base, such as myself is 10 years older and hopefully has matured accordingly. I would think the show itself would work best as an action drama on the same level as say, Angel, 24 or even some anime like Inuyasha.

It's all speculative, but the dvd release gives one hope we'll see the Gargoyles animated again.

SDOHT writes...

Hi, my best friend got me the DVD for Christmas. I was so happy, when I got home I played it writhe away and was not disappointed. I love the commentaries and the behind the scenes stuff. Thank to Disney for relising the best animanted series to us. I can't wait for the second season! Thanks Greg for creating the series and I hope u will do more commentaries and the second season. Demona is my favourite character. Goliath's voice is cool, I was surprise to see that he (I forgot the actor's named) has the same voice. It was so perfect for Goliath.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the early Christmas present in the form of the ramble on "The Green", Greg!

One thing that stands out to me now about this episode is that we get another look at the difference between Jackal and Hyena. Hyena just wants to charge in on the Mayan gargoyles and wipe them out. Jackal, rather than going for a simple all-out attack, comes up with an actual strategy, namely, having Hyena destroying the Mayan Sun Amulet so that he can then dispose of the clan while it's in stone sleep. Again showing that he's the more cunning one.

(I liked your method of having Jackal winding up attacking the gargoyles at night after that - when Vogel uses a bit of his own cunning and points out to Jackal that he won't get paid as much if the Mayan gargoyles do more damage to the Cyberbiotics operation - meaning that now Jackal doesn't have the option of just waiting for dawn after all, not if he wants a full paycheck!)

And I get a kick out of their response to Goliath showing up - "Must Goliath follow us everywhere?" "Hey, he's a fan!"

In some ways, Jackal's fantasy about altering Goliath's features is even more disturbing than his death-god phase in "Grief". Truly chilling.

The episode may be a bit on the preachy side (I know that many of the fans see it that way), but I think that it still has a good message. I particularly liked Elisa's uneasiness with the Mayan gargoyles' tactics and wanting to find a way of saving the rain forest that was within the law - and at the end, coming up with the solution of planting some of the rain forest plants on Avalon.

I find the "Quetzalcoatl" design for Zafiro interesting, in that it fits in with one additional aspect of gargoyles that revealed itself during the World Tour. Before the World Tour, we'd simply seen gargoyles in a "conventional gargoyle" form. However, when we were introduced to other gargoyles during Goliath's odyssey (and even the legacies of other gargoyles), we saw that they'd inspired other myths and legends besides just the familiar gargoyles of medieval Europe - unicorns and griffons in "M.I.A.", the "black dogs" of the British Isles in "The Hound of Ulster", and now Quetzalcoatl. (Not to mention that the Ishimura gargoyles of "Bushido" also have a certain evocation of tengu about them.) It gives an additional dimension to them that I think is neat.

I'd caught the significance of Broadway using "mothers" and how that fits into gargoyle parentage.

That was a nice touch about Broadway and Lexington considering the possibility of destroying the Sun Amulet - but, fortunately, not doing so after all.

Again, thanks for the ramble.

Sabina writes...

My DVD-Set arrived finally oversea.

I think it is just great and I'm very happy that I finally can retire my worn videotapes.

I hope that we get audio commentaries for the whole second season. There's just one fly in the soup: I'd really like to have a German version, because the German synchro is just as great as the English one and it would be a real pity if it never sees a DVD release.

Greetings,
Sabina

Bleu Unicorn writes...

My DVD review - originally posted at my blog (http://bleuunicorn.livejournal.com/56300.html)

I was fifteen when Gargoyles debuted on the Disney Afternoon and while ten years have gone by, I can honestly say my enjoyment and affection for the show have not waned. If anything, watching these remastered episodes exactly as they aired was an incredible treat for me. The first season was released years back on VHS and I own that entire set, but those old tapes pale in comparison to this set. A fact that not only was expected, but greatly satisfying.

Secretly, I was a bit skeptical when sitting down to watch the show again. Ten years is a long time - almost half my life! Deep down I was fearful that the decade of basic separation from the series had made my memories of it far grander than it was. My fears, however, were completely misguided. Here's a show that truly does withstand the test of time. And I really shouldn't be surprised, considering even when it first aired it was appealing to me and I wasn't part of that "target audience" - a fact which only drew me into the show more!

The series (in 75 words): The aptly named Goliath and his gargoyle clan are cast into a thousand year slumber, only to awake in New York City to learn they are now the last of their kind. While acclimating themselves to their new surroundings, they discover both allies and enemies alike. And soon renew their vow of protection that defines their species to include all of Manhattan and its inhabitants, both gargoyle and human.

Video: Here's where DVD transfer really can shine, but also where a cartoon can fall most miserably. Gargoyles, though looks absolutely stunning, the colors just look so beautiful. Not surprising with, considering the wonderful palette of colors used. I did notice some minor interlacing (mostly in "Long Way to Morning") and some dirt and dust in some scenes. But nothing overly bad. Definitely one of the best transfers of an animated television series I've seen.

Audio: The episodes on the set are all remastered and while for the most part the audio is superb and better than I remember listening to on my TV - Certainly an improvement over my ancient VHS copies - I did notice some odd fluctuation at times. At first, I thought it was my copy (or my hearing was going), but I've talked with other people and it's definitely not just me. It's pretty infrequent - I noticed it the most in the five-part "Awakening" pilot, but it was apparent in disc two as well.

Special features: I love special features, especially done well. I can't say I was jumping for joy over these, though. The commentary on "Awakening" was very interesting and entertaing, though I'm ashamed to say that anyone who isn't a big fan may find themselves kind of bored. (Of course, I'm usually bored by commentaries and as such rarely listen to them.) I always hate it when commentaries consist of long pauses of no talking, but you won't find that on this set! These guys - mostly Greg - have lots to say and they don't let little things like recaps and credits stop the flow of words.

The featurette on "The Gathering of the Gargoyles" convention was...okay. I didn't really find it all that interesting, but it was pretty neat to see. It's nice to know there's still a loyal fandom out there.

The original show pitch was pretty interesting to watch. It's the one thing on the set that shows how old this show really is. I'd already listened the commentary before watching this, though so it wasn't very informative or earth-shattering. Still, the original character designs were very intriguing - lots of changes were made from that pitch to what finally became. Stuff like that is just nifty.

Packaging & setup: Thankfully, Disney has never gone the route that Warner Bros. did with the horrid snapper cases. Instead, we get the standard double-disc case. Though, I can't find much love for the rather blah disc and cover art. And for a show with so much history...the only insert is just a chapter/episode listing - with equally blah art. The menus, though were really just...ugh. There's so much great artwork from this show that Disney could have used and didn't. And the animation? It was cool the first time, but afterwards I just found it annoying and distracting.

Frankly, considering how long fans have waited for this release, it's plainly obvious that there wasn't that much work put into the frills of the release.

Over-all: Scrutinizing this set is really hard for me. I'm finding myself quibbling over minor things that don't necessarily bother me because in all truth it really comes down to the content for me, which is just beyond amazing. Having the first season in remastered quality, uncut is like a dream come true. And I'm fervently hoping for a release of the second season to complete this collection!

Rebekah writes...

Hi, I just wanted to say that I love the Gargoyles DVD, the scenes are so vivid in color and detail!!! In the scene where the Trio are exploring David's kitchen, I noticed there was a part that was never shown on the Disney version. That of Brooklyn checking out the stove, was this left out because of commercial time, or cause they thought kids would go playing with stoves if they saw it?

Also, will they be releasing DVD's of the other seasons soon? I really want to see the Mirror episode on DVD - it's animation should be really awesome! - Thanks!

Charisma writes...

Hey there! Just wanted to tell you that I loved the DVD of Gargoyles. So, when are they going to have the next one out? It better be soon. I think the best part of the DVD was the commentary given by yourself, co-producer, and goliath's voice. The only downfall to that was that it was only for the first five episodes. It would've been better if there had been more commentary on other episodes. When you guys do another DVD, there needs to be more commentary than just five episodes. It would also be cool to have other voice actors for the series to come in and help with that. I also liked the main screen when the gargoyles would be stone, then come to life, and then turn back to stone, over and over again. It was done very well. I'd like to thank all of you guys who helped make this DVD possible. I started watching Gargoyles when I was seven (when it first came out) and now I'm seventeen. I've been waiting 10 years for this. Good going. *tear drop*

Well, I'm sure you have a lot of these to read, so I'll leave you to your unfinished work for the time being and I'll stop rambling on and on.

BIG FAN writes...

I love the dvd! The quality is great, and the comentary alone makes it worth while. Greg, Frank, and Keith did an excellent job giving entertaining tid bits and information behind the scenes. I especially love how they gave some general comments about the series (warning to first timers, there are spoilers! At LEAST watch the Awakening eps before watching the commentary, or it will spoil a very nice, complex plot). I wish there had been more on the Gathering of the Gargoyles. But seeing just enough of it really makes me want to drop everything and go to one! Also, the showing of Greg's pitch of the show was cool---loved the drawings! I can't wait for season 2 to come out...any idea when that could happen? Thanks all!

King Cobra3 writes...

My DVD review, copied and pasted from the Gargoyles X message board.

I FINALLY got to see it last night, both the episodes and the features, and I thought I'd drop in my two cents.

THE PICTURE - It was very crisp, and well animated. I actually found it to be darker and more developed then the reruns on TV, which also made it a little scarier. The darkness factor in the episodes made the animation very well polished, considering that these episodes are over 10 years old and that alone was enough to make me drooling like a rabid Cujo on PCP. LOL.

THE SOUND - It was very wicked, listening to Bronx's growling or the stone cracking and etc. on Dolby Digital. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and look forward to my next viewing (or hearing, in this category.) with great relish.

THE VOICE ACTING - Anyone who's heard the actors on TV (and who hasn't?) can expect the same stuff here, only better, given that it's on, like I said, Dolby.

THE FEATURES - The Commentary was fun, cool, and informative, all rolled up into one. Keith David and Greg Weisman, in particular, talking through "Awakening" alone was enough to please the fanboy part of my otherwise dark and brooding soul. The Gathering featurette was also a pleasent little ditty, with interviews, episode footage, and more. I personally would've liked more input from the other VAs, however, though Keith David did have some camera time, which semi-made up for it. Seeing the activities at the G2003 was bitching and I am looking forward to this summer's Vegas offing even more.

All in all, I was proud to have purchased this DVD, it was worth the cash it took out of my debit card, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Season 2. Come on Disney! Bring it on! Show me the season 2 goods!

Yeah, that's all I've got to say.

Looking forward to possibly meeting you in Vegas, Greg!

Chameleongirl writes...

As you ask, so shall you receive. Although, not so much a review, as a reaction.

Amazon.com did a great job with delivery this close to Christmas - they predicted the 17th at the very earliest. I *had* planned on sleeping in this morning, but having the DVD in my hands meant getting dressed as quickly as possible and sitting in front of the TV.
The Gathering documentary was awesome! I loved that I could sit there and go "I know her/him!" Not to mention "Look - there's me!" ^_^

The episodes themselves .. well, I was a whole mass of 'squee!' I have missed watching Gargoyles *so much*, the DVD is a dream come true. The opening theme gave me goosebumps and Goliath's heart-broken "My Angel of the Night" ... brr.

I did notice how clean the animation and sound were, they've certainly done a wonderful job.

So, now many of us begging on our knees would it take for Disney to release Season 2? :D

Avalon1178 writes...

This is more of a comment than a question, and considering Greg is still a couple of years behind, chances are that my post won't get reviewed until some time much much later (ah, this is where a Phoenix Gate comes in handy). Anyway, so it feels like writing something for a time capsule, but anyway...

I just want to rave about the DVD! I purchased mine at Amazon and it arrived 2 days later when the DVD came out. Anyway, what an awesome purchase.....all the episodes in the first season in the palm of my hands and hoping by the time this is read that Season Two DVD would've come out...wait, better yet, one of those Gargoyles sequels to already be airing on Cartoon Network or out on yet another DVD! Anyway, thanks for this and keep up the good work! Thanks for keeping our imaginations alive!

Blaise writes...

My DVD review:

Well, I liked it, of course!

I mean, it's great having this level of clarity in both visual and audio. And of course, the commentary track is great. But, as someone else pointed out, there is just SO MUCH you guys are trying to say, and so little time for you guys to say it in. One of you is expounding on one particular subject, while another has to chime in about what's happening on screen (as with your little "Nice mask" moment, Greg). I really wish the folks at Disney Home Video had given you guys a commentary for all thirteen episodes.

The Gathering featurette: Great, now I have another reason to feel bummed about not being able to go (oh, the trials of being a non-union actor trying to catch a break in LA). Since things have been picking up a little for me, though, I might be able to come to the Gathering in Vegas.

The Original video pitch: Words cannot express how glad I am to see this on here. The original concepts for Hudson and Bronx, Elisa's former last name, the pic of Goliath on the subway car, and the last picture of the kid in Goliath's shadow...I remembered those from the Gathering 2001, and I always wanted to have my own copy. Now I do!

And, of course, the presentation itself. They did a great job with the box art and the menus. The transfer from day to night and back again is well done and timed to make a perfect loop with Carl Johnson's score.

Pass on my kudos to the folks at Disney Home Video for their work here. I'd track them down and thank them myself if they'd given us the other eight episodes worth of commentary.

Jeffery writes...

I have, and love, the Gargoyles Season 1. I got it the day it came out! (Actually, 3 days before it came out, I snuck it out of the store where I work and paid for it on release day.) It's just glorious. The care was put into this that made the show so great in the first place. I love the commentary, I only wish there were 5 times more. This site provides the best commentary of all, but to have Greg's rants right over the scenes grounds the observations very well. I've been watching these with my wife and it's like torture. Even the smallest things have a deeper meaning and greater significance (see that boy Tom, he's not just a throwaway character, he'll be back later; that's not the last we'll see of Hakon; you'll never believe what becomes of Jackal; and Owen...my Lord!) and I want to connect all the dots, but it would be cruel to blow the surprise. What would be even crueler is if we never got a chance to share the surprises, so I'll get down on my knees now and beg Disney to put together Season 2. And don't worry, my money will be where my mouth is. Such beautiful storytelling shouldn't be buried in a vault. Such wonderful wisdom should be allowed to touch people. I had a woman today in the book store where I work ask for a copy of the Jeffrey Robbins quotation on books I have posted: "The written word is all that stands between memory and oblivion. Without books as our anchors, we are cast adrift, neither teaching nor learning. They are windows on the past, mirrors on the present, and prisms reflecting all possible futures. Books are lighthouses erected in the dark sea of time."
Beautiful.

Thanks

Siren writes...

My DVD Review

First let me tell you of my "fun" search for the DVD. I had pre-ordered it through my local Blockbuster 2 weeks ahead of release date. All seemed well enough. I went there December 7th and they couldn't find my order, my form, nothing. And they weren't even selling it on the shelf. I'd have to wait for another 2 weeks to get it. So I rushed over to my Wal-Mart. They didn't have it either. It was 2 days later before I got a chance to go to Daytona. Circuit City didn't have it. But Best Buy did. One last copy. Then 2 days later, Wal-Mart in my town got about 20 copies. Frustration!

Anyways, onto the review...

I had seen the coverart online and loved it from the moment I saw it. I was suprised Disney didn't print their name on the front cover though. I liked how the gold banners pointed out it's anniversary and it was 2-discs. Which is often an eye catcher. And the cover itself is beautifu;. The purple-gray Goliath was great. Unlike the VHS Heroes Awaken cover, this DVD cover did not soften the look of the show. The VHS cover could have been decieving to some who figured it for a light-hearted children's show. This cover respected the show. The back cover too was nice. I was expecting screenshots of the show, but it was respectful in a way. And it listed the bonus features, critic acclaim, and a little summary. Very nice.
I liked the insert, using the old pictures from The Hunted and Force of Goliath VHS. And it fit well with the cover art. The DVD discs themselves were all nice. And nice to have the episodes listed straight on the discs.
Pop in the DVDs, skip the previews, and go right to some great menus. Again, respectful of the series. They looked great. And the sound was perfect too. I was shocked frankly at the menus. Most menus don't jump out at me, I really don't care to look at them. But these were perfect and eye catching. I also like the moments when you choose and you get a little bit of different characters. The video itself for each episode was crisp and beautiful. Better then I ever saw on TV even. The sound was great as well. It was wonderful to have each episode uncut. Disney had originally cut the egg scenes out of the Heroes Awaken VHS, because they never planned to release season 2. Seeing the egg scenes again, gives me hope that they will. Even for those who never saw the series before have to wonder about the eggs. Even though Xanatos said they were gone. He lied a lot afterall, so it's only natural to think he lied about the eggs. It just gives me a lot of hope since they included stuff that would come out later in the series, perhaps they may just bring season 2 out.
I LOVED the Gathering feature. That was so well done. The interviews intercut with the show were excellent. And again, respectful of the series. They taped a lot of stuff. They included so much. It was great! I wasn't expecting them to go that far with it.
Greg's pitch was also fun. Nice to see the history some more. And be refreshed on stuff I had forgotten. I also never saw some of that concept art. Very interesting and neat!
Commentary was great! Most of the stuff I knew, but it was nice to hear them talk about it again.
All in all, one of the best, if not THE best DVDs I ever have owned. I plan to buy more copies for Christmas gifts and to donate to local organizations. :)

Phoenician writes...

Glad to see that we can post again . . . I got the DVD on Tuesday Premire!!!!

I was so happy!

Went over to Best Buy to buy it. Turns out, my little brother, 10 years old, today, was the won to find it. They were in a box somewhere in the 'TV Shows on DVD' aisle.

We politely asked a worker there to properly display the boxed set in all it's glory. Unfortunatley, I don't know if they ever did. :I

I read the back cover for the first time. It said it all, surprisingly. "The victems of Human betrayal" Humans? Betraying Gargoyles? To the unwise ear, that sounds ridiculous, and that those who read it must surely see how could perfect humans do evil to 'monsters.'

Hey, that's just who I am.

I saw the commentary in the Pilot episodes. (Isn't cool that "Gargoyles" has more than one pilot episode?) I loved how you (as in Greg, Frank, and Keith) mentioned every little thin we loved about the show, and the quirks that cam ealong with it. "Bronx kicks A**, or tail, as the case is!"

Loved it.

I also never truly realized the TRUE signifigance of Goliath asking to join the others in stone sleep. I never knew that he meant to commit suicide, but now that makes it all the more meaningful. It also reminds me of the Demona's anguish when she sees Goliath that way in City of Stone Part I, where she cries and kisses Goliath, not even trying to find a way to wake him.

Sad indeed.

I also loved the dog joke. Once an actor, now on the streets . . . cliche', huh?

I am glad that Carl Johnson also got the recongition he deserves. I mean, hard not to, right? Everytime the comentary began, you gave praise to the man who came up with that "BUMMMMM!! BUMMMMM!! BA BU BU BUM BUMMM BA BA BUMMM!! Epic indeed.

But it was truly a rewarding thing to see the show on DVD at last.

"I always survive" -- Demona, "Temptation" That is how this fandom is. No matter how hard we hit the ground, we always come back alive!

AND WE LIVE AGAIN!!!!!

Onward to Season II !!!!!!

Arazia writes...

DVD Review

My first reaction to the little box from amazon.com arriving was a childish giddiness of having some great prize finally in my grabby little hands. My first disappointment was opening the container up and seeing that the first disk had come loose either in shipping or sometime prior and had been rattling around inside. On closer inspection of the case itself, I'm a bit disappointed in the construction of it, as it is very easy for the discs to slide loose and get damaged. Luckily for me, there wasn't any trouble with it, even if the first disc did get a few scratches.

The gathering footage was a great addition, and really interesting for someone like myself who has never gone. Of course, I went through the special features first, and then went back and re-watched the entire show. It probably would have been better to have some chapter breaks within the episodes, as I had to fast forward through the intro each time. I did encounter a technical glitch of some sort while playing the DVD on my laptop. There was quite a bit of jumpiness to the opening of the DVD, but a good cleaning of it seemed to fix it fine. Perhaps a balance issue?

Away from the more technical aspects, Gargoyles was very close to what I remembered of it. Seeing it again was very much like seeing it for the first time. With the DVD quality and my laptop, I was able to see a lot more details, especially differences between various animation companies that did different episodes. The sound was amazing, and I was able to pick up on a lot of little sounds that I missed as a child.

Overall, I'm very happy with the DVD, although not so happy with the quality of the discs or their packaging.

Audra writes...

Gargoyles DVD Review

Hi there Greg,
I read that you wanted DVD reviews for the new Gargoyles DVD… So here goes…

I have been waiting a very long time for Gargoyles to be released on DVD. I am very excited and hope that this DVD will sell well. I wish Disney would of advertised this DVD more though… Maybe some TV commercials? I have met people who love Gargoyles, but don't keep up with the Gargoyles news on the internet, and they would of have had no idea it is on DVD now without me telling them.

This DVD is awesome though, thank you Disney for releasing it. The quality is great, and I love the digital surround sound. I never heard Gargoyles sound so well. And it's great to have some bonus features. I really like the audio commentary Greg. And the DVD is nicely made… I really like the animated menu, and when you go to certain things on the DVD how it shows the Gargoyles doing something cool, like growling, hissing, etc. All the episodes are unedited… What more could a fan ask for? I even got my friend to buy a copy, and he has never seen even one episode before! I told him about this show, why I loved it so much and what made it so great to me. I knew he would like it. And after watching the DVD, he loves the show. He asked me if I wanted to go to the Gathering with him, and I am so excited! I have been wanting to go to a Gargoyle Gathering for years, but no one ever wanted to go with me. There are so many fans out there that haven't been able to go to a Gathering. I have been spreading the word for the DVD… I at least got one friend to buy a copy who never saw the show before then, and I turned him into a fan. I hope Disney releases the second season on DVD, I really think the second season only gets better. Greg, I know you have heard this a thousand times, but there has never been another show like this to me… And I really do miss it. I miss seeing new episodes, new stories, to continue this wonderful series.

I am a 19 year old girl, I have been a fan since 1995 or 1996 I believe. (No unfortunately I didn't become a fan right at the beginning) This has been my favorite show since then, and I really don't think any show will replace it, ever. My friend that bought a DVD really wants to see the second season now… I hope that the second season will be released on DVD! Greg… You don't know me, I only posted a few times at "Ask Greg" over the years, but this upcoming summer you will probably get at least two more people coming to the Gathering. (My friend and I) What more can I say, this DVD is awesome and I am so happy it is finally here. I look forward to season two on DVD, and hopefully more! You have a great show here Disney, don't stop now!

Jordan Cooper writes...

Greg asked to post DVD reviews here, so that's what this is --

I've never posted to Ask Greg before (any questions I might have had about the series were very much answered, and I couldn't think of any more), but I've been reading it consistently for maybe 2 years now!

I watched all the extra features. I spread out the 5 commentaries over 5 nights so that I could make it last. Sigh, now it's over.

I wish there were more commentaries. They get so addictive, and I didn't want them to end. They were VERY very good commentaries. Non stop talking, obviously you (Greg) has a LOT to say about the show (obviously), and there were no long dead spots like in so many other commentaries I own. It was inspiring for you to sound so excited talking about the show, none of the spark has gone down at all. It was also just very funny to hear Keith David on the commentaries. It wasn't interesting or informative, just kind of funny.

The pitch to Disney is an incredible thing to have on the DVD, and way more than I was expecting. It was adorable to hear you describing the show and the characters. I don't mean adorable in a bad way, it was just really sweet, like someone telling a children's story at bedtime or something. Except with more explosions and stuff.

The feature about The Gathering was fun and interesting, though I felt weird watching it. Maybe cause I'm not ULTRA-Obsessed with the show (just normal obsessed) enough to wear costumes and stuff (I wanted to go to the Gathering in NYC but did not have the money). It was nice to see. I would have preferred to see more stuff with you/Greg at the Gathering and I was also hoping to catch some of those inside things that are Gathering-only, oh well. BUT all in all it was a good way to let people (and Disney!) know how much the show means to a lot of people.

I'm so glad to have all these episodes on DVD. And I WANT MORE!!! MOOOORE!!! Season 2 will be like a million discs but I WANT IT! And more commentaries!

Jordan Cooper

Ryan writes...

My DVD Review.

I've already posted several thoughts I had on the DVD so I'll be brief here. Decent transfer. Picture not perfect but it looks good enough even blown up on my 103" screen so that's good news. Sounds much, much better than my copy-of-a-copy-from-cable VHS versions, another plus. Commentary was cool but it sounded like you still had stuff left to say even after five episodes.. so why not extend it out to cover the whole series, maybe even bring in some other people on the creative team or some other voice talent on different episodes and have them guest comment like Keith did. A lot of commentary tracks on movies or TV series run out of steam after the first 45 minutes or so and then listening to the rest becomes repetitive and boring but it sounded like you could have kept going so why stop? Extras were alright, I already mentioned the bad flashbacks the Gathering footage gave me, the original show pitch was interesting to see, wish that there was more stuff like that but I realize there may not be more stuff like that. If Disney gets you more involved on the next DVD maybe you can put in some more extras like the Bad Guys thing that you did at the Gathering or whatever else you can come up with to help expand and flesh out either the genesis of the show or the unrealized portion of your Master Plan. Chapter breaks would have been really nice. More extras would have been nice. Better packaging would be nice. "SEASON 2 COMING SOON!" in big bold letters on the back of the box would have been nice. But ultimately I'm just happy that it is out and I own a copy... Season 3 was terrible, season 2 had some great shows but was at times hit-and-miss and the world tour was boring.... but season 1 is solid gold and I loved every minute of this DVD.

Luke Perry writes...

what is with people that like Buffy so much? Is the show really that great if you watch it all the way through? Every individual episode that I've seen has been, on its own, just plain terrible. Cheesiness abounds, bad jokes, very poorly coregraphed action sequences with a very unconvincing lead- both in action sequences and regular acting but especially in action sequences, vampires that aren't scary or cool or intimidating or in any way interesting who die in seconds to some waifish looking little high school brat (c'mon guys... Paul "Pee Wee Herman" Reubens in the original more-appropriately-titled-because-it-was-a-comedy movie was more threatening than some of these throw-aways), corny special effects, oh, and John Ritter as an evil robot. What is there to like here, seriously? You're obviously a huge fan, Greg, as your geekily obsessive Buffy character lists prove. Maybe you can shed some light.

To Buffy's credit, I haven't seen any episodes that were as bad as some from The Goliath Chronicles (A Bronx Tale, the one with the cloned clan and little Anton- stupid idea to begin with made worse in the hands of and inept creative team, the EGON PAX!!! episode, et cetera)... and a few of the Buffy episodes I've seen, though not many, have been better than some of the bad episodes of Gargoyles season 2 (most of the later Dracon episodes (Turf, Protection/Jalapena!), anything with Anton Sevarius in it (Monsters, Metamorphosis), and the weaker eps on the world tour (Easter Island, New Olympians, some of the ones already mentioned) If you're still not familiar at all with the Goliath Chronicles as I know you've previously claimed in Ask Greg you out to at least check out A Bronx Tale and the Egon Pax one... I forget what that episode was called... it had the Illuminati in it. They are just really, really, really hilariously bad. Mind-bogglingly bad. Funny, funny stuff... but sad at the same time. If it makes you laugh and cry that's supposed to be a good thing though, right?

Greg Bishansky writes...

My DVD review.

The powers that be did a terrific job with this DVD. All thirteen episodes of the first season of "Gargoyles" uncut, unedited. Great picture and audio, nice transfer, the menus are great. They didn't let me down.

The episodes all look gorgeous, and after almost ten years of VHS tapes recorded off the TV, it makes a real difference. I'm even hearing sound effects and bits of music I never heard before, it's just wonderful.

The audio commentary on all five parts of Awakening by Greg Weisman, Frank Paur and Keith David was fun to listen to, they're all great guys... and I know as I've met and spoken to all three of them, and Greg I speak to a lot.

But first a little response directed at Greg... Was going through the fifth part of the "Awakening" commentary and when we get to the reveal of Demona's name, you go on about how you're not sure if it played well or not, if it was impressive enough for such a reveal.

Just thought you'd like a little feedback on that. I was thirteen when that episode first premered, and that scene made quite an impact on me, it was about then that she became my favorite character (up till just before Demona starts shooting at Goliath and playing out their 'little drama' Xanatos was the front runner, but as you know I love him too) but damn the reveal was dramatic, red smoke, her silhouette and she steps through it with her eyes flashing red holding the bazooka, and the character animation on her and the way Marina acted, and I knew her name was basically (demon) and that it was both well... demonic and beautiful, deadly and elegant all at the same time. I thought it was perfect.

So yeah, as far as this fan goes, the scene worked wonderfully.

The Gathering extra turned out very well also. It's 15 minutes, but it's well covered. I'm surprised at how much of me they use. And it's official, all these years of being a Demona fan boy, and now it's officially documented and I even appear on screen with her (split screen of me and her), just a little thing but it means something to me. Aaron and Mara are the other two Demona groupies in that part of the documentary. But lots of great stuff, lot of Greg W and Keith David. Sapphire appears just about every other shot (and I'm suddenly picturing the director of this documentary with a big blown up poster of her on his bedroom wall ;)). Everyone looked great, the bit where Aaron and Xanatos say the "Pay a man enough and he'll walk barefoot into Hell" line in sinc was just awesome.

My only complaint was that they didn't show Aaron's Demona tattoo, and that the Gathering website's URL was not flashed on the screen. Aw well.

Overall, I give it a 9.9 out of 10. Would have gotten a gull 10 but no tattoo and no Gathering URL... still, the set is terrific, and overall exceeded my expectations.

Lord GargFan writes...

Here's my DVD review:

First, the Power Rangers commercial made me laugh. Someone brought up how it was like the murderer speaking at the victim's funeral.

The animated menus were GORGEOUS!!! Absoulutely beautiful.

The clarity of the pictures were awesome. Ditto for the audio.

The commentaries, doc, and pitch were enlightening to me. It's a pity that they didn't make the Gathering featurete longer.

Anyway, that's my review. Short and sweet.

Thank you, Mr. Weisman, for creating such a good series.

Thom writes...

I am so sorry the last post was meant to read "Thank you for helping to stop them from driving the clan apart in the final episode" not for "not helping".
Once again thank you for an amazing series, forgive me for the mistake in the previous post.

Thom writes...

More a comment than a question. I am new to this forum but have been a fan of the show for a long time now. I just read the posts about the third season and am relieved to see that it was not under the same direction as the first two seasons which explains the extremely different feel to those eps as apposed to the first two seasons. I am sorry that the series was taken from you ( I cannot believe that they felt the need to do so seeing the job you had done with the previous eps.) but I am happy knowing that these were not your works. You are an extremely talented person to have done so much with this series and the overall feel of the series was increadible. You are amazing!
P.S.- Thank you for not helping stop them from driving the clan apart by the end of the third season. I can't believe that was even considered!
Thank you again for your time. I still look forward to seeing the rest of the series on dvd and have purchased season 1 already ofcourse, but I now have a whole new outlook on the Goliath Chronicles. Once again I am sorry you were unable to complete the series the way you had invisioned.

Blaise writes...

THE NEW OLYMPIANS
(I had written a rather lengthy ramble on this last night, but due to some glitch or other, lost it. So, here I try to recreate that which was lost.)

This episode is always a little difficult for me to watch, mostly because of the unreasoning hatred and bigotry displayed by many of the New Olympians. It "angers the blood" in me, if you will. Things like Helios' "What a foul stench, it must be coming from the human!" just rankle me. I mean, I know that they have legitimate grievances (or, at least, their ancestors had them), and if they had only avoided Elisa, I might be a bit more tolerant. Despite the wrongness of his decision, I can like Boreas because he at least seems to try. Even Taurus, who has the seed of hatred inside him, does not always make decisions based on it, and even breaks up the riot. But the behavior of the rioters and their ringleaders--Ekidna, Kiron, and especially Helios (I don't know why I single him out, but if feels right)...it's just completely inexcusable (and loathsome).
Oddly enough, I don't feel the same way about Proteus, who is arguably more evil than any of the rioters. I mean, this is the guy who performs evil acts BECAUSE they're evil, right? And yet, I enjoy watching him. Why is that? Is it because Proteus does not make any excuses for his evil (at least, not here)? It's like...okay, you watch ANGEL, right Greg? You've seen that episode with that one guy, Billy (I think that was his name), the Hell-freed misogynist who could incite instant and violent hatred for women in any man he touched? (If you haven't, please skip to the next paragraph) It turned out that Angel was immune because he had worked past hate a long time ago, but he admitted that even as Angelus (his evil side) he was never motivated by hatred so much as a perverse sense of glee from inflicting suffering. And while I can actually kind of enjoy watching Angelus work (no matter what he does), I could feel only raw disgust and hatred at Billy, who tries to justify his bigotry. It's the same way with Proteus and the rioters, here.

Anyway, on with the episode.
I loved the music that played when the skiff passed through the "shimmering" area and New Olympus was first revealed.
Also, the designs for this episode were great--I love the many and varied character designs of the New Olympians themselves, especially Boreas and Helios.
And I echo Erin's assessment of the city: "Wow."

As soon as Elisa shoved the gargs off to the side and said, "No telling how they'll react to gargoyles," I immidiately put two and two together and figured out where this episode was going. I mean, whenever anyone says something so obvious like that it's almost like asking for the reverse to happen.

Interesting restraint system the N.O.s have. There's not much more I can say about it, but I did find it rather peculiar.

I agree with you about the Senate House walla, Greg. I must have heard that one guy say, "Humans can't live with us! They're dangerous! They're animals," or something like it, about two, maybe three times.
Also, theres a moment here that I always find a bit odd. When Taurus removes his helmet/mask, the way it's staged--the camera angles, and Goliath's spreading his wings--seems to indicate that this is some sizeable revelation. And yet, it was rather anticlimactic. Taurus, if anything, looked exactly as I expected him to look.
I like it that the "Leader" of the New Olympians holds a "lightning staff"--sort of harkens back to Zeus. Or is that thing particular to the Boreas of New Olympus?
And there's a moment towards the end of the Senate House scene that I missed until the third or fourth viewing: Goliath and Elisa embrace.

I do have to wonder about Boreas' decision here. What did he expect to happen? Did he have too high an opinion about the behavior of his people or did he suspect what would happen (which would make his decision somewhat malevolent)? I'd like to believe the former, but if that's the case, then he may be just a bit too optimistic.

And then we have the riot, which I've already touched on. Helios gets things rolling with his "stench" comment (kind of a racial slur), but Kiron throws the first punch. Like Todd, I find these two particularly reprehensible because they're supposed to be peace-keepers. Ekidna I actually find myself being more tolerant towards (maybe she reminds me of Demona). It's odd, but the way she talks about how the human's treated the N.O.s in the past sounds almost as if she experienced it personally. Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into that.

While Taurus' arresting Elisa is unjust, it did probably save her life in the immediate moment.

Actually, I find Taurus very interesting here as he's walking Elisa towards her cell. Whatever hatred he may have for humans, it doesn't stop him from telling Elisa about his father's murder by Proteus. He even manages to sound a little nice when he says "Make yourself comfortable, you could be here awhile." He also breaks up the riot, threatening to arrest everyone, and fire Helios (I love Helios' meek, "Y-yes, sir!"). Of course, I think a little of Taurus' own bias still shows through when he says "If you've got a problem, take it up with Boreas." It almost sounds as if he has a few things he'd like to say to the winged-one. Of course, I may again be reading too much into this.
Like I said, Taurus strikes me as someone who, while subject to prejudice, TRIES to act in spite of it. He's not always successful (he arrests Elisa instead of just moving her out of harm's way), but I'd like to think his effort counts for something.

And now we come to Proteus. I have to admit, my interest in him increased when you mentioned in a previous response that he was probably the closest thing to "pure evil," "evil incarnate," what-have-you that we have yet encountered in the GARGOYLES universe. There are many reasons I would have wanted to see the New Olympians spin-off, and a further exploration of Proteus' character was one of them. I would have loved seeing him in action beyond the scope of this one episode. And the late Roddy McDowell...what a great voice and performance.
I love how Proteus immediately begins quizzing Elisa about her mode of transportation. You can tell he's already thinking of escape.
Admittidly, Proteus may not be the best actor--"Who's that guy?" is probably the worst Goliath impression I've ever heard--but then again, he didn't have a heck-of-a-lot of time to study his subjects. I mean, if any of us had shape-shifting powers we could probably pull off a decent impression of the characters because we've watched and studied them so much. For what little time he had, Proteus' acting got the job done (up to a point--I'm not sure how convincingly he can turn to stone).
I find it interesting that Proteus' voice doesn't change when he becomes the Cyclops (is that a sort of secondary, "preferred form" for him?). I also find it interesting just how easily he seems to be hurt in that form. His fist connects with a collumn and he's in pain, and immediately after this he is felled by one punch from Taurus (granted it's to his EYE, but...).

One of my favorite sequences is in this episode. Proteus-as-Taurus, heads up to the Collinadium (however that's spelled) and begins to overload it. As he's doing this, Talos is explaining why this is a bad idea, and asking him to stop (while displaying missles) in such a frustratingly calm voice! I find it hilarious! Maybe that's why I feel sad when I see Talos' inert body hanging from Proteus' fist--I like the robot.

Angela does real well at dodging the restraints. If the sun hadn't rose, she probably could have kept it up for a while.
I always wince when Kiron tips over Bronx. It looks like something might have broken off.

Back to Proteus really quick--I love his transformations in this episode. The way he just sort of liquifies. The change from Goliath to Cyclops (with the two eyes becoming one) was especially well-done.

Taurus has his "I don't understand" moment, which is kind of required for episodes tackling subject matter like this. When the character actually says those words, I usually find it a bit too on the head, but Michael Dorn's acting helps make it work. And I love the wink Taurus gives Elisa.

One thing that I think many viewers may miss the first time is that Elisa DID NOT change the whole island--which is what would happen in another, more standard series (kind of like what TGC did with ANGELS IN THE NIGHT). Only Taurus and Boreas have really come to trust Elisa (Taurus even waves to her).

"The time may soon come when the world will have to face the New Olympians." When I first watched this, way back when it first aired, my mother watched it with me. As soon as Boreas said this, she turned to me with a smile and said, "I smell a spin-off." If we only knew how right we almost were.
(Then there's my brother, who thought that line sounded more like a threat...).

A little note on voices here. Having been an admirer of Rob Paulsen's work, I was glad to see him finally show up on GARGOYLES. I only wished I'd gotten to see more of him as Helios.
Overall, the voices were all well done (especially when the actors played Proteus-as-their character).
Yes, Taurus and Coldstone do sound a little too much alike, but Taurus has a slightly different speaking style than Coldstone, so that helps somewhat.
Of course, now that you've mentioned that Taurus, Talos and Proteus each had different voices originally, I'm going to be going crazy trying to figure out who they were!

This is a nice episode, with some rather difficult subject matter for me, but I like it. And I know I would have loved to see the NEW OLYMPIANS series.

Entity writes...

Mr. Weisman, I watched "The Edge" today and found myself amazed by how well you and the writers (in this case, Michael Reeves) pulled off your surprise endings. They were always shocking without feeling 'cheap.' This is because they always make perfect sense in the context of the episode, once you know what's really up. I think the way you accomplished this, without resorting to manipulative or dishonest tactics, was to make the viewer feel like he was in control. For instance, in "The Edge," the viewer is happy to believe Xanatos has created a new, more advanced Steel Clan robot. That would have been a cool plot development in and of itself, and something the viewer felt he grasped better than the gargoyles did. In "The Price," the viewer knows that Macbeth is immortal, while the gargoyles do not, so he feels more in control than the gargoyles. Perhaps this even results in a sort of gracious laze-of-mind in the viewer, by which you and the writers used the gargoyles' naivete, both of the modern world and of the show's arching plot, as a way of lulling us into a false sense of security. Was this a conscious tactic? Is it something you and the show's writers saw yourselves pulling off or was it business-as-usual? Is such stuff taught in television writing classrooms? I've never seen another show pull off its surprise endings quite as remarkably as Gargoyles. The very first time you pull one off is "The Thrill of the Hunt," an episode that could well have ended, just as "The Edge," after the gargoyles turned to stone. But like "The Sixth Sense," you kept going, and in the process, turned what would have been merely "good" stories into great ones. These episodes and the others like them were not created for the sole purpose of their surprise endings. They were flesh-and-blood stories that you and the writers ended with surprises nonetheless. Most of the praise for Gargoyles goes to its multiethnicity, its voice cast, its music, its gothic atmosphere, the dialogue (which you claim was sixth-grade level, but I've never read a newspaper article as verbose as Goliath), and all deservedly so, but one of the most enduring aspects of all were the shock endings.

Patricia Lovelady writes...

While utilizing the nifty SEARCH function, I decided to look up responses for "the whisper". I came up with this:

Question received on Mon, August 07, 2000 03:01:14 AM
Vasy writes...
1.What did titania whisper into fox's ear at he end of the gathering part2

Greg responds...
1. Do you think they'll be wondering about this in Ask Greg four years from now?
Response recorded on August 23, 2000

And given the most recent Q&A on that subject was recently posted.... 4+ years after that Q&A was done.... I think your answer holds true.. heh :) We were still wondering that in Ask Greg.. in 2004 :)

The fandom that you didn't anticipate has bugged you about something that you didn't think you would have been bugged about.

Keep it up, it's fun being confused, etc. :D

Blaise writes...

EYE OF THE STORM

(And a Happy Thanksgiving 2004, BTW.)

This was the second time the Eye surprised me--the first being when it was revealed to be more than a mere bauble. Now we find out it really is Odin's eye, and he's looking for it.

I love Odin's "old wanderer" guise. The "star-cloak" is nicely done. His final, "Warrior-King" ensemble is a little less impressive to me, actually, but still nice (and hey--having little exposure to the great Kirby's work, it looked pretty fresh to me).

This is one of those episodes where, after watching it, you realise just how EASY things would have been if everyone had been honest and open from the start. As you pointed out Greg, Odin could have just said, "Hi! Welcome to Norway! I'm Odin, I'll be your resident supernatural being today. Oh, by the way, could I have my eye back please? I really miss having depth perception." He might have actually got his Eye in less time than it takes to watch the first Act. And poor Gunther and Erik wouldn't have lost a wall of their house!

Erik is an interesting fellow, to me. He know's Elisa's hiking story is suspect, but he doesn't want to press her about it, and in fact seems to have a rather cheerful attitude in spite of the deception. He also, to me, never seems to quite trust Goliath. Even after Elisa's first brought him up to speed he says, "From what you've told us, it sounds like we're in good hands with your Goliath." He doesn't sound completely sure about that.

Gunther's reaction to the gargoyles and the world they open up is great--wonder and enthusiasm. Pretty much what you'd expect for a boy his age. I love his eagerness to see Angela and Bronx wake up, along with his happy, "Hi, you must be An-GEL-a" (I love his strange pronunciation there).
I also love Angela's response to that greeting--"Uh...yes, I am." You go to sleep and then wake up on top of a car with a young lad happily saying your (mispronounced) name--yeah, that can be disorienting.

"The Fall of Goliath"--This was very well done. I liked how you guys developed the way in which the Eye "corrupts" Goliath. It takes his caring, protective nature and twists it into a rigid, tyrannical, "It's all for your own good" sort of thing. I have to admit I was at first surprised when it was revealed that he had been creating the storms, but afterwards it made perfect sense.
Actually, it's interesting that, after riding away and yelling "This isn't over," Odin really does cease to take any action against our heroes. He doesn't surface again until Goliath calls him out.

That battle is very well-done, BTW. It's pretty obvious that in terms of raw power, Goliath's got the edge, however Odin is the one who uses more subtlety--such as freeing Goliath's friends.

Goliath has some real "villain" moments in this piece, the most obvious of course being his line to Odin, "How frustrating for you, Old Man. To be so close to Death, and Rejuvination at the same time." Did anyone else hear a "Darth Vader Breath-Track" there?
Others would include the one you pointed out, Greg, where Goliath just says they'll "pack" Angela and Bronx--that always threw me off for some reason--and just the way he says, "A cave...yes, a cave would be ideal."

Before I forget, "Odinized Goliath" had a great design--and I like how it was tied in with Odin's "Warrior-King" design. The starry (sp?) wings were a nice touch, too.

SOME RANDOM THOUGHTS:
Goliath: "Believe it or not, we've hit ice."
Elisa: "I believe it." (A fun little exchange.)

I love how Goliath holds Elisa at the beginning. Obviously, it's to try and keep her warm...but there's, to me, a pretty strong undercurrent of attraction there. And I love his line (and the way he says it), "It is my duty to protect you."

Dang! In trying to get the Sturllisen's (sp?) car to stop, our heroes nearly send them over a cliff! Good thing Goliath can pretty much bench their car.

Elisa tries to outrun a man on a horse...well, I guess it beats just standing around, but they both have the same outcome.

I really wish more had been done with Goliath's first sight of the sun. This time, though, I began to wonder if Goliath was more enamoured with the feeling of the sun, or the feeling of the POWER coursing through him.

"Maybe you should take the Eye off now." I love how Goliath pauses ever so slightly before answering that.

I recall someone once saying that they were glad neither Gunther nor Erik became a new hero for Norway. :-)

Angela and Bronx are crusted with ice before they awaken. I rather liked that.

"The Eye! The Eye has gone to your head!" I love the look on Goliath's face after that--the raised brow ridge. It's almost like he's reacting to the (unintentional on Elisa's part) pun.

Goliath's turn around was a bit too quick and pat, but it nevertheless touched on Goliath's love for his daughter. I rather like Elisa's admission "Wish I'd thought of that." Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but it seems to me like it touches on Elisa's feelings for Goliath. Elisa may not be much for being the "Damsel in Distress"(tm), but all the same, I think she sort of likes being "rescued" by Goliath.

BTW, when'd the Eye get its "neck-chain" back?

To me, Odin's putting his Eye in its socket wasn't anti-climactic. It was just right. I mean, that's all he really wanted it for. And his and Goliath's final exchange was very well-done. I like how they admitted that each of them had kind of screwed up.

At any rate, I really enjoyed this episode and was glad to get a chance to see what happened when Goliath wore the Eye of Odin.

BTW, way back when you rambled on TEMPTATION (3 years ago, I think?) you said there were 3 toy tie-ins throughout the series. The first was the motorcycle in TEMPTATION. The second was supposed to be the helicoptor in HER BROTHER'S KEEPER (which wound up becoming a "sky sled"). And the third was supposed to be in this episode. So, what was the toy supposed to be?

Blaise writes...

PENDRAGON

I have to admit, when this first aired, I was more than a little surprised to see Arthur showing up again (or at least, so soon after AVALON). Likewise with Griff. And it was even more surprising that you guys teamed them up like this. Surprising and delightful.

I was also pleased to see the return of Macbeth (for the last time in the regular series). I have to admit, at first I was a little disappointed that Macbeth was the antagonist, simply because after CITY OF STONE and SANCTUARY he had become such a tragic and sympathetic figure, you wanted to root FOR him, not against him. Also, I'm not sure, but I think a lot more of Macbeth's reverance for Arthur could have been shown. In fact, when he and Arthur are crossing swords (well, sword and mace) he says, "You will kneel to me" in an almost spiteful way. Of course, in the end, Mac shows himself to actually be a bigger man than Arthur when it comes to admiting defeat--he does so instantly, unlike Arthur who had to be coached (and I had never thought about the similarity to those who had challenged Arthur's legitimacy back in the legends).

Anyway, back to London. I agree with your reasonings for not giving Arthur a sword (though, personally, I would have preferred a double-bladed axe to a mace, but that's just me). I just love Arthur's surprise at a locked church--says a lot about how times have changed.
BTW, you said that one of Arthur's trips was to the Guggenheim in NYC--New York City, yes? I must say, I find that a bit surprising. Since he didn't run into the clan, I can only guess that it must've taken place during the day. And if I were him, I would have been more than a little cheesed-off that my path looped on me like that ("Aww, I just LEFT here!").

The Stone was a surprise, but cool (and I love Frank Welker's voice). If the Stone's speaking didn't surprise Arthur, though, I wonder what Arthur was reacting to when he gasped and lept back into Griff. He might have felt someone else in the room, I guess.
As for Griff's design, for the most part it's okay in this ep, except for where he recites the poem (nice poem, BTW). At this point, he loses his neck. It just looks like there's this huge LUMP in the middle of his shoulders that has a beak, eyes and a mohawk.

At any rate, I really like Arthur's portrayl (sp?) here. A lot of times in popular culture, it seems, he's turned into this infallible, wonderfully wise, Paladin-like character. While that is definitely a side of his personality, I like that it's only a side--Arthur is a human, and as such, imperfect. He's not terribly humble, he perfers acting to thinking (like you said), and continually refuses to accept the possibility that he may NOT be destined for Excalibur again. Actually, this makes him easier to identify with.

One bit I like: As Macbeth is performing the summon spell, Banquo yells over the wind and rain, "HE AIN'T PAYIN' US ENOUGH FOR THIS!" In hindsight, it's like a bit of foreshadowing for him and Fleance leaving Macbeth's service (and joining up with Castaway).

Arthur immediately recognizes Macbeth (no fond memories there), and Macbeth, of course, has no memory. I like how that doesn't really phase him, though.

The gargoyles expertly handle Macbeth and his goons (it's great how they disarmed them all in less than 5 seconds). Brooklyn displays his leadership of the clan when he opts to stay and collect "some answers" rather than pursue Macbeth.

And then the clan gets a big ol' 1-2-3 punch. 1) There's a gargoyle standing right in front of them--when they thought they were the last all this time. 2) King Arthur is there as well--THE King Arthur. 3) Both the gargoyle and King Arthur have seen their missing leader and friend, Goliath. It's a heck of a lot of information to take in, and that (coupled with their trying to find Excalibur and deal with Macbeth) kind of numbs them to the ramifications of Griff's very existence for the moment. Or, at least, that's my guess. I would have loved to hear them wonder whether or not Griff was the only other one.

One nit, here: The poem says "Ebon glass in emerald frame." And they (correctly) figure it's the lake, but the lake is just a dark blue. Ebon should be black. Oh, well.

Finally, we meet the Lady of the Lake. A fun little note, here: a few months ago, I turned some of my friends onto GARGOYLES, and sometimes they had interesting observations. One of them was along the lines of, "The Lady of the Lake would HAVE to be a Child of Oberon to have a body like THAT in the Dark Ages."

I like how Macbeth plugs in his crystal ball, and uses a monitor screen as his "scrying pool." Ah, the conveniences of modern technology.

Can't add much to what you've already said about the Water Djinn sequence, mostly because I find myself agreeing with you. Still, you guys only had 22 minutes or so to work with.

I got a kick out of the whole "Brooklyn" exchange. There are some inconveniences to being named after a location.

Like Todd, I was a bit surprised that Banquo (and Fleance as well, it seems) know about Macbeth's true identity. Mac must have a LOT of confidence in them.

At about this point, the Trio and Hudson largely take a backseat to the main action--Arthur and Griff vying with Macbeth for the sword. That's not to say that they don't have some good fight moments with Banquo and Fleance.

While it was never readily apparent that Banquo and Fleance were wearing power-suits, that knowledge does help explain a couple things I'd always wondered about: 1) How Banquo didn't lose his legs when Hudson hit them with what looked like the sword's cutting-edge, and 2) How Banquo wasn't crushed under the weight of both the tree AND Broadway.
Actually, Fleance seemed to be the more competent of the two in this battle--almost single-handedly taking out all four gargs. And she's got a tough hover-bike, one that crashes, but can still be used as stairs later on.

Griff encourages Arthur to continue fighting for Excalibur--yup, our king's found his first uber-loyal supporter.

The dragon...I am a BIG dragon buff, and I was indescribably pleased to see one in GARGOYLES, even if it was technically made of stone. The "vents" on the neck were an interesting and unique touch. And of course the whole "fight-and-flight" sequence was fun. The Trio and Hudson seemed to have the roughest time of it, being knocked back at the first, and then dodging fireballs while flying around the dragon's head, (Hudson whacking it with his sword...which right now reminds me of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" where Lancelot whacks the French castle with his sword before retreating).

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is Griff's way of freeing Arthur--making the dragon drop him and then grabbing him by the *corner of his cape* as he starts to fall! Arthur never even blanched. Then again, this is the same guy who a few seconds later plunges his had into the magical fire to retrieve Excalibur. I loved that part, BTW.

Poor Macbeth looks so sad when he drops the remnants of the false sword. I like that Arthur asks Macbeth to join him. As I recall, that was something he often did in the old legends: make a friend and knight out of a former foe. Of course I also recall reading somewhere that Excalibur could burst into blue flame or some such thing, so what do I know?

Arthur pretty much states what his next quest is (find that old fart, Merlin), and then does something I didn't quite expect...he knights Griff. I have to admit, maybe it's a bit prejudiced on my part, but I never contemplated the idea of a gargoyle-knight. I like it though.

I didn't get the idea that this was a sort of "backdoor pilot" to a spin-off, but once I found out, it made perfect sense. If this ep was any indication, it was already shaping up to be a fine show.

There's my ramble, and tomorrow I start replying to EYE OF THE STORM.

mari-ann writes...

j like gargoyles palun saadeke mulle golitah ,brookyln , lexi ,broadway.ühe groupis

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "The New Olympians".

I've always had a soft spot for this episode, largely because I really like the notion of a whole society of "Greek mythology creatures/beings" out somewhere. I still hope that you can get to explore it some more later on; that spin-off sounded like a lot of fun.

Despite your mention of avoiding the actual gods for character models for the New Olympians (since the Greek gods were famous for looking too human to provide dramatic designs in the same way that a minotaur or centaur would), I did notice in the crowd scene (at the point when Helios is exaggeratedly coughing and retching in Elisa's presence) a woman carrying a bow who did bear a strong resemblance to Artemis (at least, as she's customarily depicted in myth-based art).

Ekidne at times struck me as almost channelling Demona in her cries of "Treacherous human!" and her eyes glowing red when angry. (Of course, Demona strikes me as another good case of "bigotry bringing about more bigotry", so it fits.)

Helios and Kiron's participation in the riot struck me as even worse than that of the other New Olympians; these guys are police, and should be discouraging such displays rather than encouraging them. (Whatever else you can say about Taurus, he had the decency to break up the demonstration outside Elisa's cell.)

Proteus struck me as a fun villain, with such lines as "They really don't like you, do they?" or his habit of tormenting Taurus by shape-shifting into his father. (I agree with you that Proteus doesn't seem to bother to do his homework; I'd caught all three of the flaws in his performance as Goliath that you'd mentioned - saying "Who's that guy?", providing a weak excuse for why he doesn't turn to stone in the daytime, and wanting to blow up New Olympus, which last - again - sounds more the sort of thing that Demona would do.) I also caught a moment when he's waving at Taurus with what appears to be an extra-large hand (which I assume is part of his shape-shifting again and not an odd-looking piece of animation).

One of my favorite bits is Elisa empathizing more with Taurus after discovering what they have in common - both police, and both have fathers who are police. Especially the bit where she wonders aloud how she'd respond if Peter Maza were to be killed in the line of duty.

Knowing your interest in Theseus, I certainly can't say that I'm surprised that one of the main New Olympian characters in the story would have a link to him, in the form of being descended from his most famous adversary. (Or that you'd do another take on Theseus and the Minotaur when you wrote an episode for Disney's animated Hercules series.)

The "humans of legend" bit reminds me slightly of a short story by J.R.R. Tolkien, "Farmer Giles of Ham"; in one scene, a giant is telling many other giants and dragons about his excursion into human territory, giving an exaggerated account of the food to be found there and of how little resistance one can expect from the local humans. The dragons promptly say eagerly "So knights are mythical, after all!"

Re your remarks about Talos - I wonder whether Talos could be described as truly prejudiced, being a robot rather than a flesh-and-blood being. (He certainly seemed the most pragmatic of the lot, as you put it.) Though, then again, maybe I'm displaying a bit of prejudice against robots and machines in not believing that they can develop feelings as humans and other flesh-and-blood beings can.

I'd caught the similarity of Goliath's "I cannot wage war upon an entire island" line to the earlier line "I cannot wage war upon an entire world" in "Awakening" - what made it most stand out to me is that the original line was spoken to Demona, and here he's saying something similar to Demona's daughter.

A neat little detail: the flying cars on New Olympus have little eyes painted in the front, just like those on an ancient Greek trireme.

Another of my favorite bits is Elisa's run-in with Helios, where she tells him about how Proteus is planning to blow up the island, leading to:

HELIOS: And you had to attack me to tell me that?

ELISA: Would you have listened to me if I'd just called you over?

HELIOS: Frankly, no!

Somehow I never spotted the hint of a spin-off at the end of this episode as I did for "Pendragon" - at least, not until I found out about the Master Plan. Now I find it an appealing idea, as I said above.

50 episodes down and only 16 to do. You're really making good progress on this one, Greg. Thanks.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "Eye of the Storm", Greg! This is another episode that I'm very fond of, especially because of the Norse mythology elements (which I've long been interested in, ever since reading the d'Aulaires' "Norse Gods and Giants" as a boy). While I had from the start taken a strong interest in the Eye of Odin on account of its name, I had not even suspected, before this episode aired, that this really was the very eye that Odin had given up for a drink from Mimir's well. And the revelation that it was definitely excited me.

I'd suspected that the Sturlissons were named after Snorri for some time; thanks for confirming it for me.

This episode answered one question that I'd had about the Eye for some time. I'd noticed the dark effect that it had had upon Fox and the Archmage, but I also knew that both of them had been "bad guys" before they ever donned it. So I was wondering what impact the Eye would have upon a "good person" who donned it, and whether it would corrupt them or not. This episode definitely answered my question, and made it clear that nobody was safe with the Eye except for Odin himself.

(As I mentioned in an earlier remark here, the Eye in this episode reminds me a bit of the One Ring in "The Lord of the Rings". Odin is attempting to recover his Eye for (more or less) the same reason that Sauron was attempting to recover the Ring; much of his power had passed out of it when he parted with it, and he needed to regain it to recover his old strength. And the impact that the Eye had on Goliath paralleled the element of how anybody who would try to use the Ring to defeat Sauron would become corrupted enough by it to become almost another Sauron. There's even the "eye imagery" in both cases. Of course, a major difference between the two stories is that giving the Eye back to Odin turned out to be the right thing to do - not to mention that Sauron definitely wouldn't have apologized to Frodo afterwards for all the trouble that he'd caused in trying to get the Ring back.)

I still find it a bit ironic that Odin would be ruefully admitting, at the end, that he was out of practice in dealing with mortals; in the original Norse myths, he was the only one of the Aesir who regularly interacted with humans much. All the other gods seemed to have dealings mainly with the other mythical races (dwarves, frost giants, etc.); Odin alone took part in human actions, often turning up in the human-centered sagas in his "old wanderer" disguise (such as thrusting the sword meant for Sigmund and Sigurd in the pillar of the Volsungs' hall, advising Sigurd on the correct means of slaying Fafnir, or engaging in a riddle-game with King Heidrek and winning when he asked a riddle - "What did Odin whisper in the ear of his dead son Balder?" - that only he knew the answer to). I can't help but think that if Odin's getting rusty in dealing with mortals, it's a good thing that Goliath and Co. didn't run into any of the other Norse gods while they were in Norway.

As I've also mentioned before, I was initially a bit disturbed by both Odin and the "Odinized Goliath" wearing horned helmets, since the series had shown earlier, in its character designs for Hakon and his Viking followers, that Vikings didn't actually wear those helmets, so my response was one of "The animators know better than that." I've come to accept this more, however, since both Odin and Goliath are "fantasy beings" rather than human Norsemen, and could be expected to dress more in accordance with popular notions about how Vikings dressed.

I hadn't picked up on the callousness of how Goliath spoke of transporting Bronx and Angela, but I did notice a couple of other acts of Goliath's while wearing the Eye which did, for me, serve as "danger signals". One was the way that he spoke when he was eagerly talking about seeing the sun for the first time; he delivered it in a very "over-the-top" fashion, almost straight out of Sevarius's style. (Though "over-the-top" in a good acting way, of course.) The other came when he, while reassuring Elisa that he was under control, patted her on the head in a very patronizing fashion.

(One thing that I'd really like to know was how conscious Goliath was of his motivations. Was he aware that his goal was to dispose of Odin so as to remove his chief rival claimant to the Eye, or did he believe that he was doing it to protect Elisa and the others, with his true motives buried deep below the surface without his being conscious of them?)

Perhaps the one thing about Odin getting his eye back that I find a bit of a pity is that his having one eye (and, as per the cartoon, in the original Norse myths, this was a feature that he had no matter what form he took on) was a major distinguishing feature of his; Odin having two eyes again feels to me, well, just a bit like Owen's stone hand returning to normal. But it certainly provided a great way to write the Eye of Odin out of the series.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Pendragon" ramble, Greg.

This is, of course, an episode that I'm very fond of because of my being an Arthurian buff. I've been therefore eagerly awaiting your ramble on it for a long time, and I'm glad that the wait is finally over.

I hadn't expected Arthur and Griff to team up before this episode, but I very much liked the concept. I still think that it's a pity that the "Pendragon" spin-off never got made to show us their adventures. (It's still my personal favorite of the projected spin-offs in the Master Plan.)

Although you don't mention it, there's an echo here of the first Arthur-related episode in "Gargoyles", "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", with Macbeth again as the antagonist and Banquo and Fleance as his assistants. And again Macbeth is going after an Arthurian artifact.

A couple of bits about Macbeth in this episode still stand out to me. One is the fact that Banquo and Fleance know that he's *the* Macbeth; that got my attention at once. The other is that Macbeth, after drawing the fake-Excalibur from the statue, describes himself as "Macbeth, son of Findlaech". I very much enjoyed the little reference to his father, who thus gains a certain posthumous presence in the series long after "City of Stone Part One" (I find myself also recalling his cameo in "Avalon Part Two", when the Archmages are spying on Macbeth in 1020). Even when characters are dead, they're not forgotten.

I was initially a bit taken aback by the Stone of Destiny being the stone from the Sword in the Stone legend, since the Stone of Destiny was in either Ireland or Scotland at the time rather than in London (where the Sword in the Stone was set up), but I've since grown to accept it. It certainly makes sense; I've read a couple of commentaries on the Sword in the Stone legend which connected it to the Stone of Destiny, so equating them is certainly feasible. (I hadn't even considered the possibility of the Stone actually speaking those words to the assembled British nobles and knights until you mentioned it, I might add.)

I very much like the concept of Arthur's role being somewhere beyond Britain, even if it does take a different course from the traditional legends about his future return. (Arthur becoming ruler of Britain again would have made the Gargoyles Universe too different from the real world, of course, which gives an additional good reason to go in the direction that you chose.)

I hadn't even noted the parallel between Macbeth and King Pellinor, but I really like it. Thanks for sharing it with us. (I always was fond of Pellinor, from the time that I first met him in T. H. White's "The Sword in the Stone".) I certainly get a kick out of Arthur and Macbeth as allies - two of the most famous legendary kings of all time, if with dramatically different reputations. A real crossover concept, in fact.

Maybe the one weak point about the Gargoyles take on Arthur is that he seems a little too influenced by T. H. White - in the sense that he doesn't seem "uniquely Gargoyles Universe" enough. Other characters from traditional legend who cropped up in "Gargoyles" in major roles did so in a way that felt true to their originals, and yet in such a way that you could still, when meeting them, say "This is the Gargoyles Universe version of the character" at once. Macbeth was definitely this way, as is Puck, and so are the Weird Sisters, Oberon, and Titania. But Arthur feels maybe a bit too "conventional Arthur" in his appearances. Although I assume that, if you'd gotten to make the "Pendragon" spin-off, you'd have found ways of making him stand out a bit more from other writers' take on Arthur.

The bit about the fake Excalibur (which Arthur recognizes at once to be a fake) reminds me of a story in Malory where Morgan le Fay stole Excalibur from Arthur and replaced it with a worthless duplicate, while then giving the real Excalibur to one of her knights whom she then manipulated into attacking Arthur - obviously Arthur isn't going to be taken in by the lookalike ploy this time around.

And I certainly liked the concept of a different take on "the sword in the stone".

I can't help wondering a little what Leo and Una must have thought about Griff going off with Arthur so soon after he'd rejoined them, though I doubt that it was quite as bad this time around. For one thing, I get the impression that a major point behind it was that they didn't know for certain what had happened to Griff in "M.I.A.", and whether he was dead or not, which wouldn't happen this time around (since I recall that you mentioned that Griff called them up from New York long-distance). Also, there was the "buried guilt" issue over the fact that they knew, deep down inside, that they should have gone with him - and since now, after "M.I.A.", they've returned to being protectors, that isn't an issue any longer either.

At the end, I was eager to see Arthur and Griff go on their quest for Merlin, and thought it a pity that that story wasn't continued. (This will touch slightly on "Sentinel", but I'm saving my comments on that for when you ramble on it.) At least we get to see Arthur knighting Griff, which I thought was a great scene. And a fine way to begin a new set of adventures.... (Here's hoping that someday you'll get to tell them.)

Entity994 writes...

WALKABOUT

I'm not big on relating my entire reaction to an episode, but highlighting certain key reactions of mine that stand out. I'll start with the negative. The idea that this Matrix could be so rapidly developed by Xanatos along with all his other projects struck me as reaching a little far. That he never chooses to use the technology for commercial gain in industry (nanite construction) or medicine (nanite healers) also threw me.

Of course, this was Fox's and Anastasia's experiment, not so much Xanatos'. I liked the notion that perhaps Anastasia infused the Matrix with magic in order to accelerate it. I also choose to believe that the Matrix represented, for Xanatos, a sort of dark temptation. I like to think that after the failure in Australia, Xanatos decides it was for the best and that transfiguring the whole world for his purposes is not him, it is the deep inner demon in him that must be silenced. I think Xanatos is a guy who values reason and considers it the barrier and interpreter between his dark, inner demon and his outer surface of grace, charm and tact.

Anyway, I loved Dingo, the Shaman, and the Dreamtime. Neither the Shaman nor the Dreamtime were very thoroughly developed, but that is what I liked about them. The spare dialogue made the Shaman and the Dreamtime feel more mysterious and therefore attractive. The way the Dreamtime was used as a bridge of communication with the Matrix was a stroke of brilliance, I thought.

Finally, in the Dreamtime, I loved the way the Matrix is represented -- as that mechanical set of arms and gyroscopic "eye" that zooms in on Goliath like an insect as he gives his gloriously-written and very eloquent speech, which I also loved. Tha whole scene is perfect and made the episode for me. I love the stuff Goliath will say in a tight spot that manages to convey desparation and maintains eloquence at the same time.

Blaise writes...

MARK OF THE PANTHER

And with this I should finally be caught up.

In the first few minutes, I found myself fearing that this episode would be focused primarily on our heroes stopping poachers. To me, it just seems that whenever a series does an episode like that, it turns into something where story and character are put on hold for the sake of a message or moral. Even if the message or moral is good, if that's all the episode is about it just winds up feeling hokey and forced.
Thankfully, that was not the case with this episode.

I loved the whole "I've saved you--OOF!" thing at the waterfall. A nice way of continuing, and yet making fun of, Goliath's "always being there to catch Elisa" habit.

I actually didn't recognize Diane Maza--it had been a while since I'd seen her (or even heard her VOICE), and her character design looked a bit different (not just in wardrobe, something in the face, too). Regardless, I'm still glad she appeared, and I was VERY pleased that Elisa finally got word to (at least one of) her parents.

The Panther Queen story was, of course, fantastic. It never ceases to amaze me that it all took place in the first Act. It just seems to be "bigger" than the space allotted it. I was actually kind of surprised to learn that you guys made it up yourselves. Actually, I was even more surprised to find out in the original outline, "The Jaguar Queen" that you guys didn't even have Anansi!

Angela tries to view the world through the prism of her experience, wondering if Diane is a Queen or Magus. I always loved that.

Elisa's sheepish excuses around her mother always threw me--considering the circumstances (which any reasonably intelligent person would know could not be explained with "being on a case") the truth was obviously the only way to go. But like you said, Greg, Elisa's a little selfish with her secrets.
I sincerely wished that you guys had had enough time to put in some reference to Elisa's leaving Matt an (unreceived) message.
I love the looks on Angela and Goliath's faces during the, "You're right, parents and children should be able to discuss anything" sequence. Just as I like how when the gargoyles do join the action, Elisa just smiles while Diane's face takes on a more terrified/surprised expression.

One thing that always bothered me, though--Angela BENDS a spear, as though it were metal. Maybe it was, but it sort of looked like wood to me.

I loved the were-panther transformations. Especially in Karadigi. Just the way the humans stayed on four limbs for a bit after having transformed back.

I, too, enjoyed Goliath's rather surprised/pliant "Of course not" to Diane's proud statement, "I don't need looking after."
Actually, another interesting character bit here--Goliath was going to send everybody else off in one group and travel his path alone. He seems to have this kind of "I'm the big and strong one, so I can handle anything without any help," mentality. Shades of where the Eye of Odin would eventually take him?

Diane wonders why Goliath can't just fly out of the hole--again playing to human's initial assumptions on gargoyles. I just love how Goliath is so nonchalant about the tiny spiders crawling over him, or their webs hanging off him.
Elisa, Angela and Bronx's trap is pretty darn creepy--being entirely covered in a "web blanket."

The talks on parenting are well handled--they get the point across without being overbearing. Actually, it took me a while before I realized that Goliath's treatment of Angela was more out of personal fear rather than just following clan customs. And now that I think of it, Elisa's complaints about her mother reminds me of how she disagreed with Goliath's keeping Angela in the dark in SANCTUARY. Maybe that's why Angela's words meant so much to Elisa--she thought of how unhappy Angela is at NOT being able to talk about things with Goliath.

I was surprised with Tea's story about how Fara Maku marked her--it kind of switched who was the victim between the two. I loved Diane's line, "That's not love Fara. That's selfishness." That leads me to wonder how many people have let their own selfishness outweigh their love in relationships.

When Anansi finally makes his grand entrance, all I could think was, "DAMN, that's a BIG SPIDER!" Don't ask me how, but I just knew LeVar Burton had to be in this episode somewhere, and he did a great job as Anansi, though I could barely recognize his voice. If Anansi had ever taken human form, I would have loved hearing LeVar's un-altered voice.
When Anansi starts losing the battle, I love how his eyes take on a very worried look (almost makes me feel sorry for him), and he starts trying to placate our heroes with wishes.

I was surprised that you guys actually "killed" Anansi--I hadn't thought the little spider at the end was actually him (possibly because that spider was brown instead of purple), but I am glad for the thought.

As for Tea and Fara Maku's reconciliation...yes, I'm afraid I can't help but find it a little too easy. Again, this is one of those times that I wish GARGOYLES could have run longer. Heck, if Tea had been awake (and reacted) when Fara swore to serve Anansi forever if Tea was freed, it might have worked better for me.

The resolution between the parents and children was well done. Yeah, Goliath and Angela's was pretty sappy (mostly because of Angela's reaction, and the swell of the music, IMO--Goliath's always cool), but it was still okay. Diane's and Elisa's was just great, and I love Diane's line that sometimes love can be about "letting go".

Funny thing about Elisa's "No" at the end--I didn't even hear it until the second or third time I watched this ep. And I think you're right that the ending plays better without it.

GOLIATH THE PANTHER-GOYLE: Sometimes you can only see these things through the eyes of a child. ;-)
Seriously, though, it wasn't necessary, and from what I saw in the "Panther Queen" sequence, it looks like it has to be done in a very specific fashion. So I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

My ramble's a bit all over the map, but trying to do two rambles in one sitting is enough to tax anyone's brain. Suffice to say, this really is a great episode all around, and I enjoyed sharing my thoughts on it.

Looking forward to your next ramble!

Blaise writes...

WALKABOUT

This is one of those episodes that has a lot I like, and a lot that I felt could have been better.

One of the latter was, of course, the "off" portrayal of the Dream Time. As Todd already said, the Dream Time is basically Antiquity. In that view, the Shaman's statement that the gargoyles come from the Dream Time makes sense. That being said, I DID like the battle that took place in the Dream Time (more on that later).

One thing that really struck me this time around was just how CALM everyone was when the Matrix started to go overboard. I mean, Fox and Anastasia are just calmly talking about the "Grey Goo Scenario" and how the world will end in just this straight (and sometimes rather flippant) manner while everyone else largely just stands looking serious. I mean, it's like everyone's going "Hmmm, we'll all most likely be dead in less than half an hour and the world will end...Hmmmm." In the case of Anastasia it kind of makes more sense (or will after will learn about her "double life") but with everyone else? Elisa seems to be the only one even close to panicking.

And, of course, the whole "Law and Order" thing.

But there was a lot about this I still liked.

Dingo was the big one. I'd been wondering what happened to him since GRIEF, and now here he is, trying to start over. I liked this--we've already seen good people "fall" throughout the series (Demona, of course, but also Macbeth, the Captain and even Renard for an episode), and some of those people redeemed themselves, of course. However, this was the first time that someone who we first saw as a villain actively tried to reform of his own volition. Not only did Dingo prove himself perhaps one of the smarter and more able-bodied members of the Pack when they were human, but also the most sane and...well, like you said, Greg, HUMAN. Actually, Dingo showed even more than the "quest for redemption"--his discussion about the nanites and comparing them to enzymes and the like indicated that he was probably far smarter than anyone ever gave him credit for.
On the subject of that conversation, two things that always stood out: Dingo's mention of Coyote (more continutity, and a bit of added depth to Coyote), and the "voice reverb" on the helmet. The way it subtly changes Dingo's voice right in mid-sentence when he puts it on (kudos to the sound team).
Also, Dingo's utilization of his suit was great. I loved how he used it as a sort of missile against Goliath by remote control. The removal of the helmet was a bit different here than in UPGRADE (Dingo had some sort of yellow hood, the front of the helmet rises like a mask, etc.).

Moving away from Dingo for a bit, I was also happy to finally meet Anastasia Renard, and extremely pleased to see a visibly pregnant Fox. That last part was important, simply because in most visual mediums there's a little "If you don't see it, it didn't happen" mentality, so this made Fox's pregnancy that much more REAL.

The Matrix itself was fairly interesting. I must admit, I was a bit surprised that the ultimate solution was not to destroy it, but to "convince it of its error."
Also, the "Grey Goo" did seem a bit more random than it perhaps should have been, but at least it was well animated.

I rather enjoyed the interactions between Dingo and our heroes. The first instinct on either side is to attack first, of course. And after escaping from the the Grey Goo together, our heroes' first thought is that Dingo had something to do with it (and they're actually right, but he's not THAT involved). And Dingo gets a bit defensive and even territorial about them being in Australia (loved the slang that Mr. Cummings put in there, BTW). When Dingo suggests that only he and Elisa see the Shaman, Elisa gets this great, almost disgusted look on her face, like someone asked her to swim through garbage. And, when Dingo's participation in Fox's research is revealed, and he tries to explain this isn't what he expected, he takes a step towards Elisa, who in turn takes a step back. I somehow get the feeling that Goliath's more apt to trust Dingo than Elisa would ever be.

Loved the music during the "Matrix chase" scene. Not so sure about the "white glow" that occurs whenever the goo passes through a surface.

Fox did have a rather "cliched villain" idea--a machine to transmogrify the world to suit the controlling individual. Yet, it seems to me that Fox is more enamoured with the *idea* and having the capability of doing that, than actually doing that. Again, she displays that she's more interested in fun than results (unlike her husband).
Actually, that's the funny thing--Xanatos is connected with this episode, but he really has nothing to do with what's going on (kind of like in MONSTERS).

The revelation to Goliath that Fox is Halcyon Renard's daughter was nice, I'm glad it made it in there, but it always just feels too quick. If only there had been more time--I would have loved Goliath's musings on that new bit of information.

Now, the Dream Time battle. I did notice that the combatants used what was familiar to them (in fact, a few of Goliath's gestures looked like he could have been invoking magical spells, and his psuedo-clan shot lightning from their hands). Of course, the Matrix still manages to best them, and only relents when Goliath says what I consider to be the best line in this episode, "Your peace is that of the grave!"

When Dingo talks about being a hero again, he's smiling. Think about it--how many times has Dingo given a genuine, happy smile.
And then the Matrix bonds with his suit, and Dingo becomes a new kind of hero; one whose adventures I would have been most interested in watching.

RANDOM NOTES:
When my brother watched this with me (after having seen THE HOUND OF ULSTER the previous day) he remarked about the gang creating heroes wherever they go.

Batwave...y'know, it's funny. You probably started these rambles, before "The Batman" was even in development. :-)

And there's my ramble!

Demona writes...

hey,Greg. What´s up??I am from argentina and yes :We love Gargoyles here too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I always see Brooklyn and Demona figthing when they are together but Who is more stronger?? I really think that Demona would kill him very easly if some one would give her the chance but...you know....
I really love when Demona and Macbeth start figthing is very cool. In the reckoning, Macbeth "lost" the figth,but Demona would shot him if Eliza would not stop her. She wanted die because wath had happened with Tailog or she was just angry at Macbeth and she really wanted to see HIM death.Besides it mas not posible.Allrigth, it is done. Chau

Blaise writes...

THE HOUND OF ULSTER

At last!! I say that both because it's a new ramble, and I'm finally able to add my own. I'll play catch up with your other additions over the weekend.

When I first saw this episode, both the "Previously on" segment and the title indicated that Bronx would get some exposure. I wasn't sure HOW since there's only so much you can do with a dog (or even a dog-like beast) without giving them some anthropomorphic qualities. Consequently, I think it makes since that Rory Dugan became the protagonist.
And yet, that in itself is unique. Here we have a non-regular being the main character of the episode--hightlighted with that wonderful "hero-shot" where the camera circles around Rory's face (well done bit of animation, that). I mean, I don't know of too many other series that do that (well, maybe there were some old "Batman: TAS" episodes that seemed to focus more on the villains, but they're the VILLAINS!)
I love Molly's character design--the hair-style, the eyes, the three belts (in technicolor!) around her waist.
Rory's vision of Crom Cruoch really threw me the first time I saw it. Then I completely forgot about it until the Banshee transformed at the end.

BTW, time out here to say kudos to the voice work all around. Colm Meaney's (sp?) guest turn was great. Scott Cleverdon did excellent work (and HE added the battle cry?! I love that thing!). And as for Sheena Easton, hey do I really need to say anything?
Loved the Banshee's keening! I have to wonder though...it seems to me that gargoyles have a stronger sense of hearing than humans, yet the Banshee's cry is apparantly more fatal to humans.

Anyway, I was a little surprised at our heroes sinking into the bog right off. Very tense the first time you see it, and a nice little character bit for Goliath--he turns from Elisa to try and save his daughter, but can't and turns back to find Elisa has already sunk beneath the surface. For a guy so big on protecting his loved ones that must have been a truly hellish moment.

But Bronx escapes and we get our first glimpse of the Banshee.

Rory's discussion with his Dad is interesting to me, mostly in how pessimistic and cynical Rory acts. One line of his that I always like (even if I don't agree with it): "There are no heroes anymore! Only villains! And they've got us all beat." Sometimes it's very easy to think that.

Our main heroes wake up trapped in the Cairn, and Goliath says that "a whole clan of gargoyles could not batter down these walls." That line always struck me for some reason.
A bit disconcerting that Elisa's muddy in this scene and clean in the next, but "meh".
And although Cuchullan's remains would have been nice, I don't really miss it (unlike the whole Anubis thing). Besides, how much of an unmummified corpse would be left after 2,000 years?

Rory meets Bronx and between the pooch's outlandish appearance and the legends of his father, Rory reacts in a perfectly reasonable way...he runs like hell. And falls off a cliff (looking at it from the wide shot, I can't help but think it's a miracle he survived).

BTW, the little memo you posted finally clears up why Bronx singled out Rory--the Banshee's scent. Yet Bronx can still sense that Rory's not an enemy.

The Banshee talks with our "main heroes." I can never stop noticing her rather exaggerated gestures. She must be a bit of a drama queen. I like her "ghost" form, though.
The Banshee does have that one character trait (which Todd has already mentioned) that annoys me to no end: she does not even consider the possibility that her prisoners might be telling the truth. And as you pointed out she could have just mesmerized it out of them (no fuss, no muss), which makes her behavior even more inexcusable.

After the Banshee hears Bronx and splits, and Angela says that Bronx will save them (she's got more faith in her pooch than I've ever had in any of mine, I'll admit), the camera starts to briefly zoom in before cutting to the next scene. I'm always wondering what got cut, if anything.

When Molly transformed into the Banshee...I figured they were both one and the same. At least, until Molly appeared in Rory's house the next day and said she'd go with him to the Cairn because she loved him. THAT cast some doubt in my mind.

"Be still little mortal and come quietly with me, into the dark." That line still sends my dirty little mind reeling with possibilities. ;-)

I like Mr. Dugan's attitude towards his son's visions: he may not entirely believe in them, but he's not about to go tempting fate in regards to them, either.

A little animation bit I only really started noticing after you mentioned exploring more of the relationship between Rory and Molly--when Rory strides down the hill towards the Cairn, Molly gets a sad/worried look on her face. Rory isn't looking at her so she doesn't have to act, but it's still there. It's more than just avoiding an old enemy that makes her want to keep Rory in the dark.

I love the voice acting in the Cairn--as the two characters talk, a bit more of each's "other" starts to creep into their speech.
I love the whole "Gae Bolga" scene.

"Skills may rust indeed, but true friendship stays bright." Y'know, because of the accent, I didn't understand what he was actually saying there for YEARS!

I always noticed how you guys had Goliath and Angela, the usual heavy hitters, get knocked away by Crom Cruach the instant they try to join the battle. Makes sense--this was Rory and Bronx's show!

"And there's no kind of training schemes for this job, I'll wager." Nope, and no pay either! Just ask Spider-man!
On the "Thor" subject, I never knew that much about Thor (either comic or mythology) until a bit after GARGOYLES, so for me this was fairly fresh.

Dog's (or gargoyle beasts) can look smug! I've seen it myself!

RANDOM THOUGHTS:
I always thought the "Previously on" segment for this episode felt awkward towards its end--your ramble helps clear that up.

One thing that struck me this time out was the Banshee's character design, especially in the face. It can move from beautiful to rather corpse-like.

Yes Cuchullan was the "Hound of Ulster," but only because he killed the original hound and vowed to act in its place until a new one was raised. Who's to say these hounds weren't gargoyle beasts?

Great ramble!

Todd Jensen writes...

One other thing about "Mark of the Panther" that I forgot to mention: I find it somehow amusing and appropriate that Elisa and Diane Maza would have a run-in with humans magically transformed into panthers in light of how a member of their family had already been turned into a panther-of-a-sort (though through science rather than through magic).

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "Mark of the Panther". (Boy, we're really coming along well with the rambles now! Isn't it great?) Here are my thoughts on it.

One of the moments that still most stands out to me is the legend of the Panther Queen that was incorporated into the story; the change of animation to set the old tale apart from the present-day action was a particular delight for me. (Although I hadn't even thought until you mentioned it that somebody tuning into "Gargoyles" during this story could have mistakenly believed that they were watching a different television program.)

I've read a little about Anansi before the series came out, though I'm no expert upon him. One thing that I had learned about him, which I think that the episode captures accurately, is that his tricks and schemes had a tendency to backfire upon him - and this is what happens in both the Panther Queen story and the main action. In the Panther Queen story, Anansi, indignant about having to turn the Panther Queen's son into a panther, banishes all the humans from Karadigi - and then realizes too late that he's just sacked his entire hunting force, so who's going to bring him food now? And in the present day, Anansi's getting Fara Maku to hunt for him worked too well - he gorged himself to such an extent that, once out of his web, he was too fat and unwieldy to fight the gargoyles effectively.

Diane's helping to resolve satisfactorally the problem of Goliath's difficulty in acknowledging Angela as his daughter reminds me of something that you once said about why they generally leave mothers out of Disney movies: the mother, if she was there, could have found a solution to the problem so quickly that there'd be barely any story. And once Elisa's mother shows up, she does indeed help solve the Goliath-Angela problem (though without preventing there from being a story).

And I picked up (by the last time that I saw this episode, a few months ago - I regularly watch my "Gargoyles" tapes every summer) on the link between Diane telling Fara Maku about his desire to keep Tea by his side "That's not love; that's selfishness" and her telling Elisa at the end that love is about letting go.

The moment that you mentioned about Diane telling Goliath with a certain indignant dignity "I don't need protection" and Goliath saying "Of course" always amused me - and I found myself also thinking of "mother-in-law" towards Diane at that moment.

The first time that I saw this episode, I thought that Anansi had indeed been slain at the end, though "The Gathering Part One" proved me wrong on that. And, truth to tell, I'm kind of glad that the Children of Oberon are so difficult to kill and that we haven't had any genuine deaths among them as yet in the series. After all, they are (or the bulk of them are) traditional figures in humanity's own myths and legends, part of our cultural heritage. Obviously, a genuine death for Anansi wouldn't result in everyone forgetting the tales about him, but still, his passing, or the passing of any other member of the Third Race, would somehow (to me, at least) diminish the "tapestry of story" that we have gained from them. (When we get to "The Gathering Part Two", I'll mention how Oberon's sentence upon Puck has a similar, if not as strong, impact upon me.)

Thanks also for telling us about how Bronx somehow reminded you and your family of Norman again. (I wonder now how the Cagney scenes in "Gargoyles" would have affected me if I'd seen any of them between the time that my old cat Merlin passed on, two months ago, and the time that I adopted my new kitten Obie.) Norman sounds like he must truly have been quite a dog.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the Election Day present, Greg - namely, the "Walkabout" ramble! Here's some thoughts of mine on it in response.

For a start, I missed this episode the first time around (due to my moving to my first Central West End apartment the day that it first aired), so I only got to see it during later showings (by which time, of course, I'd seen "The Gathering" and knew the real story about Anastasia Renard). Fortunately, it didn't ruin the episode for me.

Generally, I have difficulties with the notion of an artificial intelligence as the antagonist (whether a computer, a robot, or what-have-you) - when it's a deliberate antagonist, that is, as opposed to just following orders like the Steel Clan robots or Renard's cybots - because I find it a little too difficult to imagine a machine becoming evil. I believe (like Goliath in "Outfoxed") that it takes a living being to engage in motives of good or evil. So, for example, I usually have a hard time accepting a computer or robot out to conquer the world since that would require it to have emotions (power-hunger, greed, paranoia of the "I've got to conquer them before they conquer me" variety), which I can't imagine an artificial intelligence developing. That said, I found that Matrix's actions in "Walkabout" worked for me since it wasn't out to reformat the world out of "villainous motives" but merely because it was obeying its programming, to create order, and thought that it was carrying out its duty. It might not even have understood, at that stage in its development, that its bringing order to the world would mean disaster to all living things on the planet. So the Matrix worked for me.

(I might add that one of my favorite bits in the episode comes when Goliath is protesting repeatedly to the Matrix in the Dreamtime that its form of order would bring about death to everyone on Earth, and the Matrix replies, in this almost desperate fashion "But we must have order." It said that in a way that felt, to me, as if it was beginning to understand at last what Goliath was saying, but still had the problem that its programming demanded that it produce order, and it couldn't go against its programming.)

I'd gotten fond of Dingo after "Upgrade", and so I enjoyed seeing him again, wanting to make a change for the better. The touch that I especially liked was his mentioning about how he'd used to be a hero to a lot of people when he was on the Pack's television series, and wants to go back to that, only this time being a real hero rather than just playing one on television.

You're correct about the "Dreamtime" being not quite accurate; a friend of mine who knows more about Australian Aborigine legend than I do pointed out that the Dreamtime was actually a "mythical time period" when the world was being created rather than some sort of other dimension.

I liked your mention of how the Avalon World Tour was supposed to take the cast to every inhabited continent (the "inhabited" part would explain the absence of Antarctica - which you were planning on sending King Arthur and Griff to, anyway). Technically, they don't set foot in South America unless you enlarge its boundaries to include Central America (in this case, Guatemala), and don't set foot on mainland Asia (as opposed to Japan) in the television series (though there's your Himalayas story that you'd planned for the Gargoyles comic to make up for that).

I got a chuckle out of Erin's response to the name "Matrix" in connection to the movies.

Of course, another big element is the introduction of Anastasia Renard on stage at last, plus seeing Fox pregnant. (I've sometimes wondered whether there were any S&P issues with that part.) I especially liked Goliath realizing that Fox is Renard's daughter after being introduced to Anastasia.

Again, thanks for the ramble. I'm really looking forward to more to come.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the first new Ramble in a year, Greg. I really enjoyed reading the "Hound of Ulster" one, and hope that this is the first of many more to come in the last couple of months of 2004; I've been eagerly awaiting the rambles for the last 22 episodes of "Gargoyles" that you worked on, after getting the rambles for the first 44.

I only saw the first half of the episode the first time that it aired (I was in the middle of a move from the suburbs to the Central West End of St. Louis in early 1996, and so missed the end due to working on the move with my family). And by the time that I got to see the whole thing through, I'd already seen "The Gathering", complete with the Banshee's fate at the hands of Oberon. Not that it hurt things that much. Since then, I watch my taped version of it regularly each St. Patrick's Day, as a holiday tradition. The big pity is that I can no longer remember my initial response to it (such as whether I thought that Molly was a person independent of the Banshee whom the Banshee merely masqueraded as once or twice, or whether they were one and the same). Sorry about that.

I was amused to discover that you'd originally thought of calling this one "A Bronx Tail" in light of how the Goliath Chronicles used that title later on. (I recall that they also used that title in the "Gargoyles" comic book series, at one point.)

I honestly hadn't thought of the Lassie connection with Bronx until you mentioned it (but then, I know Lassie more by reputation). (I did catch the Wizard of Oz quotes right away, though.)

I'm a bit puzzled by your mention of a certain "Liscoo". Is that the name of Rory's hometown (if so, it obviously didn't make it into the dialogue of the completed episode)?

You were correct in not using the term "Barghest" for that episode, since it's indeed linked to northern England (those viewers who were already aware of the discrepancy from the original Cuchulain legend would have let you have it even more if the term "Barghest" had gotten into an Irish story!). But I like the notion of associating gargoyle beasts with the "black dogs" of Britain and Ireland. The "black dogs" of British and Irish folklore do match gargoyle beasts; they're generally nocturnal, are awe-inspiring creatures that can strike fear into people's hearts, and yet often appear in the role of protectors, despite their fearsome quality. So Bronx playing the role of one of them works.

I find the "dwarves made my shoes" line appropriate, since one of the most famous mythical denizens of Ireland is the leprechaun, and leprechauns are dwarflike shoemakers. (Was that line intended as a direct reference to leprechauns, or is it just another neat coincidence?)

(Another piece of trivia: the Cromm-Cruach - the Banshee's "death-worm" form - or, more precisely, its namesake in Irish mythology, was the source for the name of Crom, the god worshipped by - or, more accurately, sworn by - Conan the Barbarian. Robert E. Howard, the man who originally created Conan, had the habit of borrowing almost all of his names from actual legend and ancient history.)

I'd thought myself (after a couple of showings of the episode, though not right away) that there is a certain similarity between Rory/Cuchulain and the Mighty Thor of Marvel Comics (both modern-day people who become "real" mythical figures after discovering a stick that transforms into the mythical figure's traditional weapon). Hopefully you'll be able to solve it if you ever bring the series back long enough for Rory to show up again.

And, yep, the Banshee did pass up the opportunity to mesmerize her prisoners. (She also showed that annoying tendency that so many interrogators have of "I've already made up my mind about whether you're innocent or guilty, so all the evidence that you're innocent won't mean a thing to me." A bit like Nokkar later on in "Sentinel", in fact.)

I share your delight in Rory's dad's lack of enthusiasm at seeing Molly. I also enjoy the parts where Rory warms to Bronx (particularly where he actually rides him).

And, yep, it wound up being mainly Rory's episode - but Bronx still got a big role in it.

SomePerson writes...

Hello Mr. Weisman,
(Not really a question, just putting in my two cents.)

I have recently learned of the Gatherings but do to my
crazy college schedule & budget I have not been able to
attend. After reading some of the Gathering journals it is
incredible to see how one show can bring so many people
from across the country together. Gargoyles has inspired
many people to read more, put their own thoughts in writing
and appreciate some of the greatest works of literature. I
hope one day that the dream/goal of bringing Gargoyles back
will come true/be accomplished. It is wonderful to find
out that such a dedicated person, such as yourself, takes
time out of his life to answer questions from the fans. I
have heard about the DVD and will be purchasing it as soon
as it comes out. The show has truly opened the doors to an
amazing world where everything, even the smallest things,
contain some kind of meaning that holds true in everyday
life. Please excuse any grammatical errors on my part but
I have my first nursing exam tomorrow and need to get back
to studying so I was rushing a bit. I know that there are
many other entries for you to answer before mine so I don't
expect a reply right away. I just wanted to thank you for
creating a fantastic show and letting the fans know that there
are more fans out there.

French Kitty writes...

Hello Greg! How are ya? This is just part of my ramble for the Awakenings. I will have to post the rest later. :(

My ramble for Awakenings...(sorta)

AWAKENING part I

The Awakenings are some of my favorite episodes of the series. You kind of have to see these first episodes to understand the entire series. I have decided to watch all my tapes beginning to end to observe more carefully for things I have been meaning to ask but forgot over the years.

Scotland, 994 A.D.

I like how the episode starts,right in the middle of a battle between Castle Wyvern and the Vikings) I have always been interested in history, and wars are a big part of history. It looks like a real battle,(arrows flying everywhere)and I see a huge rock thrown at Wyvern and breaks off a large part of the castle.

And this is how far I got before the VCR ate my tape. I got stuck and i am afraid to try it again. I wouldn't care much because it is mostly The Goliath Chronicles episodes, but I also taped the "Awakenings" and "Hunter's Moon" part II and III. I have four tvs in my house, two have VHS, I have an individual VCR and NOTHING seems to work! I'm going to have to tape the episodes again(because they're my favorites!!) but I don't have a GOOD tv to do that with AND I do not have cable, satellite, DirectTV, etc... So it will be a LONG time.

Sorry for wasting your time but I'm frustrated and I needed to share this. :D
[I can't wait for the DVD.]

Thankx for your time.

Allan Ecker writes...

This isn't a journal, I guess. It's just a shout-out. It isn't a journal because I didn't get to the Con, but if it had been anywhere within, oh, a 500-mile radius of me, I would have been there, so I feel justified in at least writing that I would have been there. (Heck, if I weren't moving around so much due to internships and such, I'd have gone anyway.)

I just need to give applause to Gargoyles. It was beautiful, cool, and fun, truly a jem of animation. The Shakespearian references layered over deep characterization and even deeper character -development- truly light my heart afire. I'm aching for this DVD. I can garantee that, unless all the copies are snapped up in, say, the first week of them hitting the market (which I honestly hope for, since that will likely mean more would be on the way), I will get it. I have two other friends who will do the same, -almost- as much to show support for the incredible talent (and any applicable forces of managerial mojo) involved in producing Gargoyles as to have DVD-quality sound and picture as opposed to our moldering, commercial-break-laiden, misordered VHS's.

Gargoyles, is, in my humble opinion, the single best animated series American animation has to offer. Gargoyles is better than the sublime Batman animated series and the inspiring X-Men Evolution, both of which have been released on DVD already. It has also done what I previously considered the impossible in unseating Tale Spin from the pinnacle of my Disney Pantheon of Good Shows.

Gargoyles didn't find me until long after it had stopped airing. In fact, you might say I walked in just in time to see this pivotal moment in its growth. I just wanted you to know, Greg, that I will be voting with my wallet (possilby twice) to get Gargoyles the recognition it deserves.

To Greg, and to all who gave Xantos, Goliath, Brooklyn (and of course, PUCK!) life, thank you.

PS, an actual question:

Just how "voluntary" is stone sleep? You mentioned in a recent (well, two years ago by now) response that sunlight was "a powerful psychological cue". Could a gargoyle fight off stone sleep for as long as (or longer than) thirty seconds? Would this have any short- or long-term side effects?

Also, sometimes gargoyles roar after waking, others not. I take this to mean that it is semi-voluntary, like yawning and/or stretching. Is it more or less voluntary than yawning? Will some circumstances make a gargoyle less or more likely to roar upon waking?

Justin writes...

Greg,
To add a little more to what I was sort of rambling about the other day I would like to say a few more things.
First I think it is really cool that you continue to push the boundaries of the show. I am well aware that the target audience was boys ages 6-11, but I think the mark you hit was seriously more for adults.

I know there certainly were elements that made it a kids show, but there was always that sub element of adult themes, thank you.

I think, once again the choice to make Lexington gay was a bold and good move. I think he represents the homosexual community in a good way, not the stereotypical, blatantly affeminant sort of way. Not that that isn't a norm in the segment of the population but not all homosexuals are like that.

Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Justin

KJC writes...

GREG WROTE:
Saw RETURN OF THE KING. And I really, really liked it, although I didn't really, really like the first hour. Overall, I enjoyed the first two movies more, but don't get me wrong. I'm not comparing this to the awful Return of the Jedi, at all. I still loved it, and I can't wait to see the extended version.

The movie that actually caught me by surprise was PETER PAN. I really liked it a lot. It's so melancholy and bittersweet. Peter looked terrific (and was about 50/50 on the acting). Some things may have been a bit on the head, but it's Neverland, not Subtletyland. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's a better movie than LOTR, but I thought the reviews of Pan were way harsh.

KELLY RESPONDS:
I had the opportunity to see both RETURN OF THE KING and PETER PAN on Christmas day. Excellent films that fulfilled my expectations and left me feeling quite content - despite the fact that I cried my eyes out during a few touching scenes (I'm such a sap). I look forward to purchasing the boxed set when it's released but I'm trying to stop myself from buying all of those irresistible marketing tie-ins like script-books, action figures, One Ring and sword replicas etc.

And PETER PAN holds a special place in my heart, as it was the very first story my mother ever read to me in bed as a child (I still have the tattered and faded book my mother read from, tucked away in my closet), and I grew up watching the televised stage production with Mary Martin as Peter (yes, I'm THAT old). I thought Jeremy Sumpter did an excellent job in the role of Peter, and Rachel Hurd-Wood was quite charming. I agree the critics were too harsh, but I also felt slightly uncomfortable with the not-so-subtle sexuality between Peter and Wendy, and the odd pedophilic vibe I got between Captain Hook and his delicious little prey, Wendy. But I still loved the film and will probably buy the DVD when it's released.

Greg, if you had Peter Jackson's 300 million plus budget and could make any movie you wanted, what would it be? A medieval epic (a la Gargoyles or Robin Hood), a modern-day drama (i.e. House of Sand and Fog) or a gritty, futuristic tale (Blade Runner, The Matrix)?

Msil writes...

It´s about the Random stuff... on Thursday, December 18, 2003. I know it will be a while until the time you read this...but anyway..I love The lord of the rings: Return of the King and I understand you! I was Dying to see it. And its a fantastic adaptation.
By the way, I love the idea of "*I'd like to see a music video from Goliath's POV -- but featuring Elisa -- of "Amazing". (I think that's the title. I'm not sure who the artist or band is.) " And the band is Aerosmith (My fauvorite)

Stella writes...

not a question, just a compliment!
great job......... the storyline of Gargoyles.

I wish eternal damnation upon the bastards who have canceld the show.