Jim R. writes...

Doh! Wrong word in my last question: "conscience" is supposed to be "conscious" as in aware of one's surroundings. Sorry about that.

Blaise writes...

HIGH NOON

Came back to the rambles a bit later than I expected. Anyway....

First off, I felt the animation in this episode was some of the best in the series--fluid, characters had "solidness," and just overall very well done. My only real complaint is that sometimes the positions and movements of the characters seemed a bit too...BIG. Over-dramatic perhaps. The most obvious example is the very one you mentioned, Demona's "sex-pot poses." Those always throw me, because they just didn't really seem to fit the scene for me there. I suppose the idea put forward by several other fans--she was showing off against Elisa--is probable, but still.... On the other hand, I must admit that, yes, it is certainly...appealing to watch...the poses.
ANYWAY, still some pretty good animation. But while we're on the subject, Desdemona's skin-color seemed a bit lighter to me in this episode.

Yes, Michael Dorn does a great job contrasting the two personalities in his voice, doesn't he? Just the difference in between hearing him as Othello talking to Desdemona in cyberspace, and then as Coldstone/Iago calling Demona "Sister" is chilling. His voice work is one of the highlights of the episode IMHO.

I did not balk at the progress Hudson and Broadway made in their reading. For an animated television show, I thought this was a very nice show of development among the characters. Pity that even after reading it correctly when it really counted in THE SILVER FALCON, Broadway still has trouble reading the word "right." And perhaps, after a year of watching television, Hudson should have picked up the "hit the sack" phrase--he seemed to pick up "sitting ducks" a lot quicker than Broadway--but still, it was a fun touch.
I do kind of like the modesty Elisa displays in describing herself as no hero. I don't know why, but I do.

I didn't recognize Demona and Macbeth IMMEDIATELY. As soon as they were in the station and I managed to notice the beard on the "felon" I figured it was Macbeth. I didn't recognize Demona until she started talking (who couldn't recognize Marina Sirtis' voice as Demona?). What remained foremost on my mind was why these two were working together. I actually didn't wonder too much about the rest of the stuff--maybe it just didn't occur to me, or perhaps I figured all would be revealed in good time and just suspended my disbelief. I didn't think the two were capable of escaping the Weird Sisters, though. That is, unless the Sisters wanted them to.

As for Elisa...she REALLY should have gone to the doctor if she was out for that long. I admit, in light of this "enforced nap" I always had a problem swallowing Elisa's statement that she had only slept "a few hours in the last 40" (despite the fact that she certainly LOOKED like that statement was true).

I buy that Elisa found Demona familiar (you're right, there's that sort of connection between them).

The transformation sequence of Demona from human to gargoyle (and later from gargoyle to human) were EXCELLENT. I had been waiting to see her change since THE MIRROR and was a bit frustrated that it didn't occur anytime durning the five eps with her between then and now (y'see, I didn't know about the "tiers and tentpoles" back then). Thus, I was quite happy to see her working in human form here. Also, somehow I just KNEW the transformation was going to involve pain. I don't know why...maybe it's what I would have done with the spell if I had cast it on Demona. I can be cruel sometimes.

I'm afraid that the fact that we had three villains teaming up against the heroes didn't hit me as strongly as you would have liked. It's not just that the villains had such complexity, but also the fact that Macbeth and Demona usually are fighting each other. That kind of undercut some of the "WOW, THREE VILLAINS" factor. Also, the good guys still outnumbered the villains (even though the villains managed to outthink and incapacitate them)

I do love the interaction between Goliath and Elisa when the gargoyles head off to Macbeth's. I didn't find Goliath too smug, and I thought Elisa's "full report" remark was kind of fun and endearing.

The sequence at Macbeth's house was pretty cool as well. I also love it when Goliath taps the camera with his wing--I always was interested in seeing what other uses there were for that extra pair of appendages in addition to gliding.

"Just remember, one of them hates your guts." Lex has such a wonderfully blunt method of stating the situation. ;)
Of course Goliath responds with the equally fun "Then I'll just have to be very careful" after he's punched out the console.

Broadway: "Look at all these books!"
ZAP!
Macbeth: "And I know how to read them."
Nice exchange that succeeds in taking us back to LIGHTHOUSE. Also, it managed to impress my brother as being an excellent insult.

Bronx sniffs Demona behind the false wall, Brooklyn takes no notice. A repeat of the events that took place at the castle in CITY OF STONE. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I get the feeling Brooklyn's going to pay a bit more attention to Bronx's hunches after this.
BTW, I just love it when Bronx scratches at the door...and gouges the wood.

I figured Macbeth in the library was probably directly over Demona in the...whatever room it was, for the pain link to work.

Yeah, the villains pulled a smart one with Coldstone/Iago volunteering the added information. I didn't doubt that they would.

Elisa and Demona have their encounter, and then Elisa runs into Morgan. I was surprised to find that Keith David was Morgan's voice--it sounded so different from Goliath. But Morgan is a fun character with some nice insight.
I don't know why, but I like Elisa's mention that if she went to sleep and woke up there would be "no more monsters, good or bad."

Elisa goes to the castle, unarmed, and Macbeth goads Demona into facing Elisa the same way. This is one instance where it makes sense that the villain gives up the advantage of a weapon--just the honorable Macbeth playing on Demona's contempt for Elisa to ensure an honorable fight. And I like that Elisa holds her own well. I'm glad that she didn't just turn out as another "damsel in distress" but worked as a heroine in her own right.

Meanwhile, through all of this, Othello has been hiding away, against Desdemona's pleas. Personally, Desdemona strikes me as the more mature of the two of them, the wiser and more patient (she continues to stick by this guy no matter what--this is one heck of a woman...gargoyle, whatever).
Even though the hair-color was always off, I recognized the three Desdemonas as the Weird Sisters (c'mon, triplets talking nearly as one, in a situation concerning Demona and Macbeth; who else could it be?).

Othello makes the decision and the fight for control begins. You have to admire the sacrifice Othello and Des make for the sake of keeping Iago in cyberspace. I couldn't help feeling sorry that it had to be this way.

After the fight's over, and the chains are blasted, Coldstone takes his leave for the safety of others. A couple things I really like here--Coldstone refers to Elisa as "my lady" and bows, and when Coldstone shakes his head to defer staying until Goliath wakes, he only is able to close the biological eye. His robotic eye can't close. Pity that only shows up here.
And then the jogger comes in for some nice comic relief.

The final tag struck me--kind of like the first Xanatos tag I saw. Coldstone was a feint just to get the talismans--the three the Archmage said would grant "ultimate magical power!" There they were! Macbeth and Demona start to question the situation, and in come the Sisters. I knew they had been involved, but I didn't quite know what they wanted the talismans for. "The coming battle" eh? Well, that was one I couldn't wait to see.

Of course I had to wait a while for AVALON. :)

Anonymous writes...

This one's not really smart assed, but still amusing:
Question-
We definitely know that the Illuminati, and particularly Percival/Duval, would have been major antagonists for "Pendragon". Now that the "Arthurian survivors" contest is over, could you tell us now what other recurring antagonists you had planned for Arthur and Griff?

Greg responds...

Ask me later, but with more style.

Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Don't have time for a large ramble on "Outfoxed", so I'll just comment on a few key points.

Cyberbiotics> I was wondering what became of Cyberbiotics after "Awakening", so it was nice to see them again. And personalizing them in Renard, so we know who it was that got hurt by Goliath and everyone's actions.

I didn't think much of Vogel's resemblence to Owen. I thought they were cousins or something, or perhaps that one was a clone. He also made an interesting character, and I thought his change of heart was believable at the end.

Halcyon Renard. First of all, that is a great name. I like the sound of it. Yes, I did figure that he was Fox's father. I may have flunked out of French class that year, but I knew what Renard meant. He was a great character to, and Robert Culp did a great job doing his voice. Also he made a nice opposite to Xanatos.

Goliath was well-used in this episode. Also nice to show that he's far from perfect in his waiving off his responsibility in the destrcution of Fortress I.

Fox was great in this episode also. She became one of my favorites here. I was surprised by her pregnancy, but it seemed to be a natural step in where she and David were going. Seeing her beat David in their karate match was fun, but I'd like to see him win one some day, he lost to Owen to. Fox's attitude at the end with Renard was priceless, and nice to learn her birth-name. Janine was very appropriate.

Also, with Demona, Elisa, Angela, Fox etc, "Gargoyles" has a lot of great woman characters. That's one thing I really like about this show.

The theme/moral of integrity was a good one, and well handled. I understand how Renard feels when he says it's a daily struggle. I for one have been guilty of taking the easy way out and waiving off integrity. But I try to practice it as often as I can.

This was a very good episode. Not one of my favorites, but very good.

Also, don't ask me how, but I knew that David and Fox were going to have a son. I also knew that IF Goliath and Demona had an egg it was a daughter. Don't ask me how, I just knew.

Hopefully I'll have a longer Ramble/Review for "Revelations". I enjoy doing those.

Lady Dominique Macbeth writes...

Greg,
At the end of Metemorphosis, after Elisa learns her brother has been mutated, she sits in a corner of the clocktower crying. I completely understood this--a perfectly natural reaction-- but what I didnt understand is why no one tried to comfort her. I mean, she is close to the whole clan and ou said by this time Goliath already had definate feelings for her, so why didnt someone try to help her through something that could quite possibly be the hardest time of her life?

Thanks so much!!!!

matt writes...

oh, and if i remember correctly, you said that March 21 was not only the Spring Equinox, and the possible hatch date for gargoyles, but its also your son's birthday, so, Happy Birthday Ben even though its belated by now... talk to you later!

Sapphire writes...

Oh Greg the episode Metamorphisis was pretty cool the mutagen thing and all. Do you know in reality how they do gene transference between different organisms like the gene tranference between Derek and a panther, electric eel and bat. Viruses they insert genes into viruses and inject them into a creature where the viruses insert the foreign genes into the creatures DNA and it usually takes 5 months for the creature's DNA to accept the foreign genes as opposed to the 2 days in the episode Metamorphisis. Also there is also a high risk that the immune system would gobble up the mutagen plus the body also gets rid of cells that are mutated so in reality if a mad scientist ever injected you with a mutagen containing the DNA of animals your immune system would destroy the mutagen or the cells that has been mutated

Duncan Devlin writes...

Someone asked about sources on clothing from 1000 AD so I found these two books and figured that I would post them.

The Book of Costume
-Millia Davenport

What People Wore
-Douglas Gorsline

Blaise writes...

CITY OF STONE PART FOUR
Finally! I've been trying to respond to this for weeks! But due to a hectic schedule (and a testy computer) I've been hampered in my efforts.

Anyway, Bronx saves Elisa--as we all knew he would--and Demona still manages to work around him. I always did find this scene interesting for the same reasons you mentioned. Bronx won't attack Demona if she does not SEEM dangerous. It's a fun scene to watch (especially when Demona still loses her cool when referring to Elisa).

Yeah, I also like the choral music in the flashback battle sequence. Actually, I have an affinity for any music with choral parts ("O Fortuna" or "Ode de Joy" for example).
One of my favorite scenes in the battle--Demona is fighting a human. He's on the ground in front of her, screaming. She brings down her mace hard. The camera quickly closes in on her face, putting the guy and mace action off-screen. We hear the sound of impact and the scream abruptly cut-off. Maybe I'm sick, but it just pleases me that people actually are dying in this battle. More real.

Seeing Demona happy (truly smiling and laughing) in her interaction with Macbeth is another one of those "heartbreaking moments" for me, because I know it won't last. It always gets me how quickly Demona's smile turns to a frown after Macbeth leaves.

While I never believed Macbeth would betray Demona, it is nice to have confirmation of that.
Demona on the other hand, I can't help but feel a bit frustrated with. That she suspects Mac will betray her I can understand, but why not go with Luach, the one who openly and VEHEMENTLY supported her and her clan? Why go over to the guy who wears a mask with a legacy of GARGOYLE KILLING? Just goes to show that Demona believes in hurting her enemies more than the salvation of her kind--at least that's what it shows to me.

You mentioned in PART TWO how Emma Samms' voicework as Gruoch improved noticably over the four eps. You're so right, she's absolutely smoking in this episode, especially when she chews out Demona. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

The ineffectiveness of the boulders dropped from above is something that always sets my brother off. The first time he saw that scene, he couldn't even complete a whole sentence. :D

The confrontation with Canmore (whose wardrobe I really love, BTW). Macbeth still tries to reason with him, something I admire. Canmore on the other hand, stabs Mac in the back. Like Todd, I find this rather despicable and cowardly. I like Canmore even less when he gives his little anti-gargoyle statement. Gruoch has a similar line, but I can't help feeling a bit more sympathetic towards her.
It's another one of those, "I always found it interesting" bits when Demona doesn't kill Gruoch. Very nice character work.
Backtracking a bit, it is good to know that Bodhe may have finally learned that sometimes you must stand and fight.
The Sisters come in and do their thing. While I already figured the spell out, I did like the way it was phrased. Good dialogue.
And Macbeth and Gruoch part. I still find it one of the most touching moments of the series.

Back in the present:
I didn't find the scene between Goliath and Xanatos too feeble. Granted the tapestry bit comes from out of nowhere somewhat, but the mouth of the armor moving is no big problem. I say that because in later airings (like the one I taped) the animation was fixed and the mouth doesn't move anymore.
I love Macbeth's interaction with Demona here. Yes, she's more rational than usual, but I love the look on her face when she realizes that Macbeth WANTS to die. Didn't see that one coming, did she?

You are right that the DUCKTALES pilot had better "fall-away floor" animation, but this one served it's purpose well enough.
Two of my favorite moments occur after falling out of the castle but before falling into the atrium. Goliath tries to stop D and M--they BOTH punch him. Xanatos tries to use his laser, Macbeth just says, "You're not the only one with weapons, laddie" and throws down a small grenade.

The final confrontation with the Sisters. Their revelations to Mac didn't much surprise me, until they mentioned Luach's death. That got me.
After the Sisters put Mac to sleep, I found myself thinking, "This would be the sort of thing Xanatos might like seeing." Immediately after, Xanatos pops up with "Normally, I'd find this all very fascinating, but right now I need that code to save my city." Wonderful touch of character. Two touches counting Xanatos' reference to Manhatten as his city.

And now, the sequence that pretty much left me breathless. The Sisters show Demona how she had been responsible for the Massacre, the Hunter, and Canmore's victory. I had never thought on that until now. And then, "The access code is...'alone'." When she said that, with tears in her eyes...I cannot adequately describe what I felt.

Xanatos jets up and saves the day. And is painfully aware that he has been seen doing that, even if it is the "dog." "What are you looking at?" Such a funny line.
It's also funny to see Demona, now her ol', vindictive self trying to break the grip of the Sisters-as-children and failing. The Sisters' exit left me eagerly anticipating their next appearance.

Then the sky burns. Whatever you guys did, kudos. Xanatos said it best, "Magnificent."

While it might have been nice for the gargoyles to lift Elisa up into the air, the scene still played well, and Xanatos' "You'll forgive me if I just shake your hand" remains humorous.

While I knew that Xanatos wasn't the type of villain to try to "kill the good guys at all costs," it is a nice final interaction he and Goliath have, explaining this.

Let's hope this posts now. With luck, I'll catch up with the next two rambles over the next couple of days.

matt writes...

ramble on "Revelations"-

first of all, the name is perfect for this episode, perfect!

ok, i agree, Tom Wilson is excellant in this episode, you can hear what he's thinking with his tone throughout the episode, both while narrating and not. its Tom's performance here that makes Matt one of my favirote characters.

until your ramble i had no idea that a different person was voicing Chavez, which is wierd cuz i usually notice things like that. oh, well, she did a great job!

when Matt first discovers the stuff in the clocktower i was horrified, "Oh no! He's going to discover the gargs and hate them!!" then i realized i've been wanting for Matt to discover the gargs since "The Edge"

until your recent posts i didn't realize that Mace ended up dying at Hotel Cabal, i figured that eventually the Illuminati came in and saved him. Hacker seemed too casual talking about Mace for me to think he died. actually for the rest of the series i was waiting for Mace to get his revenge on Matt and Goliath... guess not, huh?

this episode definetly had the best turn-to-stone scene in the series, its like Matt said, "Wow..." sometimes i'll watch just this part of the episode, its amazing, especially Bronx, i love his stance, beautiful.

Chavez's line to Elisa and Matt about finding each other is one of my favirotes. they were finally acting like real partners by "The Silver Falcon", now they are friends too. Chavez looks especially pleased with herself at this too, probably remebering Elisa's objections to a partner in "The Edge".

i'm happy Matt got his own episode, not just tagging along with Elisa and dissapearing at the right times, what a good episode too...