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Ed writes...

'THE EDGE' comments.

Not a big favourite. The animation is gorgeous, and the ending is sublime. But the Steel Clan echoed the Foot Clan a bit much for my tastes. I can't remember my first viewing that well, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't expect the red robot to be Xanatos. (Although I should have, because I'd seen 'FUTURE TENSE' a few months previously).

In hindsight, there are several nice touches and the writing is delightful. But it wasn't one of those episodes where the difference between normal action cartoons and 'Gargoyles' leap out and grab you.

I guess I just never liked the Steel Clan.

Greg responds...

Oh, well...

They speak well of you though.

Response recorded on July 03, 2000

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Blaise writes...

HER BROTHER'S KEEPER

Boy, I'm dense. I hadn't realized just how far the "siblings" idea went (Jackal and Hyena were right out of my mind--I just thought they were good villains).
Speaking of the terrible twins, they got some pretty good dialogue throughout, but especially at the beginning. I like how Mr. Reaves managed to put in some exposition on the other Pack members and make it sound organic. BTW, Hyena thinks Dingo knows how to have a "good time," eh? If what she said was true, and considering her own personality, Dingo changed A LOT by the end of the series. And I always have to say "OW" when Hyena digs her heel into Jackal's shin.
I kind of figured the gargoyles were throwing the twins out of the 'copter with the intent to kill. I pretty much KNEW you guys would slap parachutes on them, but I didn't expect the gargoyles themselves to be that "PC". Like I said, I always liked that edge.
Going to the trio--some of the best lines in the series there, IMHO. And most of them Brooklyn's! "Famous last words," "Yeah, use the Force, Lex," and "You and what Starfleet" always make me smile. I also like the look on their faces when Goliath yells at the Maza siblings at the end. A particularly memorable moment that. Excellent dialogue (Mr. Reaves always seems to have a gift for that).
Now I get to the main part of the ep. Just as the Trio and Hudson (who doesn't have a single line in this ep, hmmm) had their own ep to shine, this one belonged to Elisa. I liked the struggle she had with her brother over Xanatos. I began to notice the irony of each sibling's discussion with their parents in later viewings, but the fact that both siblings were wrong did strike me. As for that ending...I was sure he was going to play the tape and listen to it, but I did like it that the ending was ambiguous as to that event. The snow was a nice touch, too (and it actually made a crunching sound when they walked on it--this was the first animated show I saw where that happened!).
And one must admire Xanatos and his chutzpa. Love his ego in this one. Then there's Fox. When I saw her final remark, with the camera position and lighting, I knew that she loved him, or was at the very least infatuated. I didn't know if the feeling was mutual, however.
BTW, the beverage that Peter Maza was drinking...was it alcoholic?

I do enjoy watching this ep.

Greg responds...

Don't remember what Peter was drinking? Guess I have to watch it again.

Response recorded on July 03, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

One additional response to your "Her Brother's Keeper" ramble. You mentioned that the original idea for Catscan/Talon was to make him a scientist in Xanatos's employ who got mutated, but then realized that it should be Derek instead. I felt that the role going to Derek was a very good idea. If it had been a more or less unconnected scientist, it could still have made a good story, but making the victim Derek strengthened it. Here, it isn't just anybody getting mutated, but Elisa's own brother. Not only does that tie the victim in all the better with the main characters, but it also brought in those great scenes at the end of "Metamorphosis" where Elisa, after discovering who Talon really is, proceeds to let Xanatos have it, and then weeps back at the clock tower. I'd say that the Gargoyles Universe intuition was batting a thousand on that one.

Greg responds...

Yeah, sometimes it all just made sense.

Response recorded on July 03, 2000

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Ed writes...

'LONG WAY TO MORNING' comments.

Just like 'TEMPTATION', I loved this first time around. It had Demona, it had the Dark Ages, it had a thrilling chase scene, loads of laser blasting, a lot of atmospheric running water (I love it when running water is used alongside high drama - I don't know why, but it always appeals to me). It's fraught, has a great graveyard scene and lots of cool flashbacks. It shows us Goliath out of action.

But as I go back to it the thing that annoys me most, is Demona. She grates so much! Her dialogue seems to be frustratingly similar throughout.

Also, I felt that the Archmage was weak here. He lacked the conviction and menace that made him such an effective villain in later episodes. Which is probably why I forgot all about him, and by 'VOWS' (which I saw months later first time around, because of the order GMTV showed it) my memory had fogged sufficiently so that I got him confused with the Magus.

Greg responds...

Well, Demona doesn't bother me in this. I like the contrast (and lack there of between the flashback Demona and the modern day). To each his own.

Response recorded on July 03, 2000

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Ed writes...

'TEMPTATION' comments.

Hi, Greg.

When I saw this the first time on GMTV, I was blown away. At least, for months after this was the episode I remembered. It had Brooklyn (whose name I took about 20 episodes to memorise for some reason), and more importantly - it had Demona. I loved Demona here, and I was delighted at the theme of betrayal that flows through here. There's a great sense of hurt. It's really gorgeous.

But watching it the second time and times after, I have to say that I was less impressed. Demona seems to have a stock of classic villainess threats that she doesn't really grow out of in this season. They were great first time, but I'd seen 'LONG WAY TO MORNING' just the episode previously (see my 'THRILL OF THE HUNT' comment) and heard very similar dialogue.

Also, I can't help feeling that the ending was a bit of a con. It was very clever, but the idea that all through CITY OF STONE, HUNTER'S MOON and whatever comes after Goliath is still under a spell from episode 7 (even one that is inactive) doesn't appeal to me much.

Greg responds...

Well, it always was a cheat. Getting off on a technictlity. I thought we could get away with it, and in a way, I think it's sorta cool, from a trivia standpoint, but I was aware that some people wouldn't be pleased. Ah, well...

Response recorded on July 03, 2000

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Aaron writes...

Long Way to Morning.

I love this episode. It's definately one of my top ten. Quite well done overall, but I love it for one reason above the others:

This is the last time we will see Demona like this. No, it's hardly the last time we'll see her being evil, but after City of Stone, (And Vows, to a lesser extent) our perception of Demona changes. Post-COS, Demona's a tortured sociopath who's spent the last 900 years living a painful, screwed-up life. Even if most of that was her own doing, there's still some sympathy factor there. (Of course, this is all just my opinion, others may think differently)

In Long Way to Morning Demona's just *evil*. From her casual "Ciao" to the (she thinks) dying Elisa to... almost everything she says to Hudson, she's just pure and unadulterated badness.

The fight in the graveyard is quite cool, especially the sequence where Demona's wings unfold from behind the angel statue, (complete with sinister flash of lightning) Hudson swings his sword, and it looks like nothing happened... until the statue falls apart, bisected diagonally.

And of course, there's the irony of Hudson's last words to Demona, about patience coming with age, which only shows up the second time through. Demona, of course, being probably nine or ten times older then Hudson, but has still never learned to think things through calmly, rather then charging off in anger.

Greg responds...

That's a refreshing analysis. I like it. Does the flashbacks in "Long Way" to an heroic if pushy Young Demona mitigate or exaserbate her "unaduterated badness".

And there's nothing like a well-placed "Ciao" to indicate villainy, is there?

Response recorded on July 02, 2000

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Lexy writes...

Hey Greg,

Episode 12. Ahh, Episode 12. I guess I could ramble on about the excellent animation and such. But I'll answer your Q's;)

Derek working for Xanatos: You know..it really didn't throw me for a loop. Don't get me wrong, this isn't because you guys were being predictable. Certainly not. It was because after 11 episodes of Gargoyles already I realized that this wasn't your joe-blow plot line. The kind I can show up halfway and watch five min's and guess with dead near perfect accuracy what is going to happen. No, this was GARGOYLES we were talking about. I just got into the habit of NOT guessing at anything. That is probably the wussy no-brainer way out..infact it _is_ the no-brainer way out. But for the most part it is true. I wasn't shocked, though I was throughly (sp?) entertained. It was awsome to, again, see you guys doing unconventional things with lead characters. It's just such a breath of fresh air to see a main or basic character get pulled into the muk. I know that is probably a little crule on my part. But just because you are nice most of the time, and important, dosn't give you a free pass out of all the crud that can go wrong in life.

The Irony: Like you said..it was _everywhere_ in this episode. Just like Episode 6, it made it sparkle for me. It wasn't black and white. There wasn't one side that was dead wrong and one side that had it correct. It's cool to see characters fighting for things that arn't per say wrong..they just don't work in that perticular situation. Like you said, stuff happens.

Chucking the twins off the Chopper: Well, I guess it never really bothered me since, as you already pointed out, they had parachutes. So all is well right? But I suppose I never _really_ thought about it enough. As you had pointed out in your post, _did_ the trio _know_ they had those parachutes? Your answer is very statisfying (sp:P) to me. Just like Goliath and his whole "We defeated him, the castle is ours now" complex, it shows that they still have a lot of throw backs to their Wyvern years. Not that they just _adapt_ to this century and become modern day crime busters. Again, its just a nice touch.

Xanatos' bravado: I think you just about rounded it up for him as usual. Him telling Fox to spill the beans freely for Elisa didn't _shock_ me per-say, but it did make me shake my head and grin at that guys audacity. I mean.._really_.

David and Fox sitting in a Tree: In this episode it's pretty clear that something is really up with these two. I don't think I _really_ caught it with the force that I did untill this episode. But when I did, I didn't have any after thoughts like "Hmm wonder how long this will last." They are just _perfect_ for eachother.

Eating Jokes: Ya..it did get strung out. But it wasnt like "Oh geez, this again?" I mean, they are siblings..and sibs will be sibs. I didnt expect any of them to get really original in their come backs. Besides..it was nice to just sorta ween viewers off of the whole eating machine lable that got stuck on Broadway in earlier episodes. If he had just _stopped_ being somewhat ..well a big eater will say, or the subject was just dropped like a stone I would have been kinda thrown.

Well, I suppose thats pretty much all I got. Another contest ha? Coolies. Though I dont _think_ I'll enter.

Oh and by the way Greg. I'm sure you probably already know this. But if you gave one of us a box of used paperclips off your desk, most fans would be like "OH MY GOSH!! I have _GREGS'_ PAPERCLIPS!!! And he actually USED THEM!!!"

*shrugs* I know..but its probably true:) Were kinda insane that way.

Greg responds...

Well, I have about two hundred paperclips here. I can probably use each of them in a couple hours if I work at it. Then I can put them -- individually, mind you -- up for auction on E-Bay. I wonder what I'd get?

See. You're not as insane as you think.

Response recorded on June 30, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

An addendum to my last post. I'm really enjoying these "episode ramblings" of yours, and thought that I'd thank you for posting them. Until/unless you get to write a book about "The Making of 'Gargoyles'" (for which, alas, there doesn't seem to be a market at present - I fear that Gargoyles fandom isn't big enough yet to offer enough sales to make a publisher happy), this counts as the next best thing.

Greg responds...

You're very welcome. And thanks. I like reading your responses as well. Wish I could get you to attend a Gathering.

Response recorded on June 30, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

A sort of "return-ramble" about "Her Brother's Keeper". One thing that I will admit is that the first time around that I saw it, I actually believed that Elisa's tape recording of her conversation with Fox would change Derek's mind about remaining in Xanatos's employment. Of course, we know from "Metamorphosis" that it didn't happen. (The one thing that we probably never will know was whether Derek never listened to the recorder or whether he did but remained unconvinced even after listening to Fox's words on it. Admittedly, after the way that Elisa had been pushing him to leave Xanatos's service, I suppose that it's not too surprising that even the recording wouldn't have changed Derek's mind).

I agree with your analysis of the behavior of the Mazas over Derek's situation. (And I've got to add that I consider Elisa's meeting with Derek in the locker room a BIG mistake on her part; it obviously didn't do her cause any good. Not to mention that it wasn't too much fun for a lot of her male co-workers, either :)

I also enjoyed your analysis (which I thought was also very accurate) of the trio in this episode, and of Goliath. And I agree that the snow at the end of the story is a great touch in conveying mood.

I'd also noticed about why Jackal and Hyena would still be at liberty in this episode (and Dingo, too); nobody had seen them chasing after the gargoyles and their actions hadn't endangered any humans, so only Fox and Wolf would be facing charges and locked away in prison. (Of course, by the end of the ep, it's a whole different story for Jackal and Hyena).

Greg responds...

Yep.

Response recorded on June 30, 2000

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Blaise writes...

LONG WAY TO MORNING

A little late, I know, but we all get bogged down in RL every now and then.
I liked the Archmage. Now this is mostly because I just like magic-using characters no matter how cliched (just an odd affinity) and my like for this character increased when (on the second viewing) I finally recognized his voice.
I also like the exposure Hudson gets in this episode, and was thrilled to see that the ep showed how his eye was damaged. As far as I know, usually when an animated character is introduced with a damaged/missing eye it is not shown how that happened. I was glad that "Gargoyles" actually took the time to do that.
I must admit, although I noticed Malcolm's casual use of the gargoyles as a boogeyman to scare Katharine during my first viewing of the episode, it was in the later viewings that their long-term effects really started hitting me. Apparently, Malcolm can be quite thoughtless at times. I wonder if he lived long enough to see Katharine's growing dislike for gargoyles.
The fight with Demona, while for the most part well staged, was not quite as interest grabbing for me (always liked the characters more). In fact it's mostly in how Hudson handles that fight and views it that really grabs interest. There are a few moments in the fight that stretch credibility (Hudson cuts through a statue but Demona's gun remains [apparently] in one piece, etc.) however, Demona using the gun as a blunt instrument was not one of them. To me, she just seemed the type that would do that sort of thing.
I never really thought about the "hidden meaning" of the last exchange--I guess because I already took it for granted that the gargs were not fight-mongers. But all the same, I love the wry humor in it.

Greg responds...

Me too.

Response recorded on June 30, 2000


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