Blaise writes...

KINGDOM

Like METAMORPHOSIS and THE CAGE, I missed this during the first airing (an episode spotlighting Brooklyn, my favorite character, and the Mutates, my favorite arc). Consequently, this was the last "new" episode I watched. So, I already knew that Brooklyn would be trying to start something with Angela and that Fang would be imprisoned for something, but I was left wondering about how Fang got in there and what closure there was to Brooklyn's crush on Maggie. This ep was almost like a long needed salve for me.
First, let's get the animation out of the way. I must say, with all love and respect, that this really is some of the least in the series. It could have been good--the movements are very smooth, almost liquid and supple. However, some of the characters seem to go slightly "off-model" every now and then, and image continuity suffers quite a bit. Aside from the infamous scene, which I affectionately call the "Two Hudsons and a Bronx" scene, the gargoyles seem to not only change positions, but places during their day of stone sleep. What, did they all have to get up at noon to go to the bathroom/get a drink of water/have a mid-day snack--what?
Regardless, there were some things I liked in the animation. One of the big things, by either accident or design, was Brooklyn's change. He seemed a lot smaller in the beginning, both shorter and skinnier. When he accepts his responsibility though, he seems to stand taller, and become well-muscled. I also like it when the gargoyles bust through the ceiling at the end. Lex looks especially cool with the way his arms are folded.
I was also glad that Cagney was well taken care of--but I already knew he was from THE GATHERING. I did like how the clan did not instantly know that Elisa was missing along with Goliath and Bronx--Broadway had to check out her apartment first.
Brooklyn's reluctance to accept leadership in this situation was nice, and exactly what I had wanted to see through most of the World Tour (too bad I had to wait until summer reruns). I must admit, I had not figured out that Brooklyn saw accepting leadership as giving up on finding Goliath, but it makes sense. I had guessed that he was held back by fear. The fear of doing something wrong, bringing everything crashing down. So, I was half-right, I suppose.
Brooklyn still has his crush on Maggie, but he's not blindly chasing after her anymore. Showing a bit more maturity (sp?) there. He can obviously figure out the best course of action to take (like not outright attacking Xanatos, nor letting on to him that Goliath is missing--I feel like slapping Broadway when he blurts that part out). Of course, he lets his insecurities get the better of him (until Maggie asks him for help...you're right Greg, a damsel in distress is a great motivator for the Brookster). I like how his wings fold into a cape for a moment after he accepts leadership (caping wings is something Goliath tends to do more than the rest, so perhaps as a result of that, it kind of gives Brooklyn that extra majesty).
Hudson, the old soldier, gently nudging Brooklyn in the proper direction. I like him here--not only does he get on well with the cat, and admits he misses the "dog," but he allows Brooklyn to grow. Hudson's always been a very patient fellow, and a sly teacher when he needs to be. He fits the "advisor" role quite well.
Fang--I already knew he'd be a bad guy, but I wondered when the schism came up. Fang loves to have power, and so he becomes, for all intents and purposes, a super-powered bully. I thought he was pretty funny, and a good threat. I especially like James Belushi's reading of "I'll show him who rules down here." Nice and dangerous.
Talon--I always found it ironic that Talon basically goes around saying, "No one is in charge, and that's an order!" Talon's behavior actually kind of adds to Fang's character--it gives the latter a valid point ("For someone who's not in charge you sure like dishing out orders.") I find it interesting how Talon seems mocking/angry when he tells Brooklyn, "You want to be in charge? Speak now or hold your piece!" I wonder what got him in such a tizy about leadership. I would have loved to see the look on Talon's face when Fang says "THIS army--and you're our first prisoner of war" (love that line). Maggie had warned him about Fang....
Now Claw was the surprise for me. I knew he was one of the good guys, but I never thought that he originally went with Fang. Claw's an odd one--he's the biggest and most heavily muscled of the Mutates, and yet he was one of the most submissive. I liked how he took no part in the fight between Brooklyn, Fang, Chaz, and ?, and even looked worried about it. I liked how he helped Maggie escape, and I laughed at his pantomime (along with ?'s reaction of "Boy, are YOU asking the wrong guy!") and his hiding inside his wings. I liked how he never used his gun, instead falling back on his electro-blasts. At the end, he finally grows in resolve, and develops the strength to rebel against Fang. I like the look on his face there. Very nice.
It never bothered me that Maggie was the only female portrayed here, because I had never given any thought to it before. Maggie is more of a "support" sort of character, anyway--she makes suggestions and helps in more passive ways. But she can still give a good tongue-lashing (she tries to scold Fang after he riles up Talon--I like the shocked look on her face when she realizes that Fang really IS trying to get Talon out of the way).
Some comparisons. Although Talon was ultimately captured, it was only because of Chaz and ? using their guns that he fell. Talon bested Fang--in terms of power and stamina it seems to me Talon was the better. The Mutates may have limited flight capability, but judging from Broadway and Lexington's dodging of particle beams, the gargoyles still manage to outdo them in aerial manuevers (sp?). Maggie does a good acting job, and so does Brooklyn. For Maggie, this scene is so much more fun now that I know she was trying to be an actress--but she still has trouble concealing her smile as she deftly unlocks the cage (of course her's is nothing compared to Talon's pleasantly nasty little grin as he exits the tube). With Brooklyn, I wonder how he learned to act that well--did he have to talk himself out of trouble a lot when he was younger?
While I'm on this tack, I liked the closure this brought to the whole Brooklyn/Maggie arc, while also strengthening (sp?) Talon and Maggie as an item. I like how Brooklyn comforts Maggie in the Clocktower and she doesn't flinch from his touch like the first time--in fact, she ran to him. Perhaps appropriately, the plight of her and Talon seems to be what compels him to finally accept leadership (though it takes Hudson's "Is that an order, then?" for Brook to aknowledge it as such). And then when Brooklyn practices his deception on everyone at the end...I must admit I almost believed that Brooklyn would trade his integrity for a chance with Maggie (only to, of course, make the right choice at the end). But then he surprised even me. I like the expression on his face when Maggie looks at him after noticing the keycard, and the smile on her face immediately afterwards. Brooklyn's head does bow when he sees Maggie and Talon's joyful embrace, but it seems to me like a gesture of acceptance as well as sadness. I'd like to think that, even though Brooklyn only had a crush on Maggie, that those two did develop something of a friendship.
As for Maggie and Talon: they really do look happy together, and comfortable in each other's embrace. It's hard not to be glad for them.
Crikey! I almost forgot about Xanatos! Now I know I'm tired. Anyway, Xanatos and Owen were great fun. All the good lines have already been stated, so I won't repeat them. The whole "turret-cannons" thing was rather silly, and I don't think non-projectile cannons would be able to fire when the barrels are bent. Still, I like the looks on X's and Owen's faces as they dodge debris after the castle takes a pretty heavy hit. How much you want to bet that after the gargoyles and Talon started their search, X turned to Owen and said, "Get rid of that security system and fire the man who designed it...and sue him for the damages to my castle"? I, for one, kind of miss that we didn't get to see Xanatos take advantage of Goliath's disappearance--it would have been nice to see how all parties acted in such an occasion.
Pointless trivia: Owen says, "An intriguing development." Immediately after which, Brooklyn says, "Perfect." The ONLY time in the series, as far as I remember, in which Owen and Brooklyn (both voiced by Jeff Bennett) speak two consecutive lines. I would have loved them having a conversation.
Broadway and Lexington smashing the guns with the rocks. I figured the audience was supposed to, at first, think they were bashing Chaz and ? on the head, but I don't know if I ever thought that myself.
My ramble has been kind of piece-meal, but hey, I guess I'm just rather tired now and stressed from trying to find an apartment in LA. I'll just finish off by saying that I really like this episode.

Justin writes...

Greg,
This isn't a question, so much as a comment. I just rewatched Awakenings Part 2, and I must say it was absolutely stunning. The part that really sticks out for me is when the great acting the voice artist do in the opening scene. The parts that stick out in my mind are as follows:

"These bowstrings have been cut... there was betrayal here."
As you said Hudson was falling back on his training.

And Keith David and Bill Fagerbakke were excellent in their exchanges.

The animation during this scene is amazing in my book. Maybe not the models that I liked in episodes like Hunter's Moon, but it is still amazing. Each character display such emotion. I know Bronx is only a beast, but it even feels like he gets what happened. I loved the scene. Hudson knocking some Vikings into hay as he swoops in. Broadway using what he knows best... food! The action really picks up here and I feel so sorry for these characters. I must admit that in October 1994 when this first aired I thought many more died than about forty. Which is the number I think u said. But nonetheless it is so sad. I just lost a friend of mine back in November. So it taught me that if even one life is lost is just hard if hundreds are lost.

Anyway Kudos on an awesome episode.

Balrog writes...

I have been reading the archives and was wonderig about one thing about a Shakespeare character and wondering something about it.

Why is Calaban(presumuble Caliban)to be a antagonist, I been cheking about the Tempest and thougt that he would be more suited in a role of protagonist,given to childis presonality.

That's just my opinon on the issue.

Todd Jensen writes...

Ah, a new episode ramble at last! Thanks, Greg!

My own thoughts on "Kingdom".

I certainly do remember this episode airing out of order; the first time was in February 1996, just before "The Hound of Ulster". (I also missed the beginning of the episode first time around, so it was a while before I got to see the whole thing).

I'm glad that Broadway and Hudson provided a home for Cagney at the tower; as a cat-lover myself, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see Elisa returning from the Avalon World Tour only to discover that her pet had starved to death in her absence. Hudson tending to Cagney (and admitting that he wasn't quite a substitute for Bronx) was a lovely moment.

I was, for my own part, a bit disappointed that Xanatos only got a sub-plot role here, although still a fun one. (Yes, the cannons could have been better designed, but he himself was in form as ever: "Don't you just hate it when people drop by unannounced?" as well as the one that you cited "Do I really need an excuse to have a good time in my own home?")

Fang made a very entertaining "bad guy" here; I got a real kick out of the scene where Claw hands him the key card. Although, for me, the funniest moment comes when Claw, after doing that pantomime sequence for an angry Fang, hides inside his own wings. I always LOL at that part.

I liked the handling of Brooklyn being unwilling to become a leader, for fear that it means admitting that Goliath won't be returning. One of my favorite parts in that plotline comes when Brooklyn finally tells Hudson to accompany them to the Labyrinth, admitting that it's an order, and Hudson has a little smile upon his face as he sees that Brooklyn's finally taken on his responsibility.

To return to Xanatos: when I think it over, I don't think that it's all that surprising that he didn't actually take advantage of the information about Goliath being missing. (Although, the first time that I saw "Kingdom", I was indeed expecting him to do some real searching for Goliath and Elisa, in line of his words to Brooklyn - particularly the "I wasn't aware that I needed permission" line - and was a bit disappointed that when he and his associates do encounter them during the Avalon World Tour, it's unintentionally). Because, when you stop to think over it, what would he really have done? He had no practical reason to go after Hudson and the trio (it was clear by now that they wouldn't serve him as henchmen), and certainly wasn't going to be hunting them simply for revenge, since that wasn't his style. Likewise, I can't see him attempting to take over the whole city in Goliath's absence, regardless of what "Future Tense" might claim; after all, why conquer it when he'd already been able to achieve the bulk of his goals under the current system (as I recall you pointed out in the Gargoyles Season One Bible)? In the end, Xanatos's doing nothing to take advantage of it made a lot more sense, because taking advantage of it didn't match his character and goals. (One thing that definitely makes him a unique "main adversary" in animation).

Forliya writes...

hey,Um, I'm wondering if you could tell me how many gargoyal
cronicals are thear? because I'm embarresed to say that I'm in love with goliath. I know its stupid but I cant help it.Oh by the way can you tell me who dose the voice of goliath ? because it goes by so fast on the credits I cant read it on the screan!

The Cat writes...

Hello!

Okay, I goofed up big timeon one of my questions. My June 11th one where I'm asking about the car was a total mistake. My brain apparently flipped the image and I thought I saw it differently. This hasn't been the first time my mind has done that. Try looking at it from my point of view, everyone uses their right hand. However, I use my left hand so I sometimes get right and left confussed. Well, anyway, I'll write later or who knows I might be able to come to the next Gathering, if my mom ever stops treating me like a little baby.
Choa, The Cat(El Gato)

Lynati writes...

I would have just emailed this, but as there is no email address… whoever is in charge of the list, please leave this up for a little while at least.

"Disappointed" wrote, on July 07:
[It's about this whole "Ask Greg" thing. I love that we can come here and ask questions, but I don't love your answers.]
I do. Even when I don't get proper responses.

[suggest that if Ask Greg is a pain to you, that you simply quit.]
If he found it so much a pain, I am sure he would have by now. And I for one am glad he has not.

[You're not doing much good anyway since you don't answer our questions.]
*Points in the direction of the Questions Answered archive* Have you looked in there? At all?
The overwhelming majority of those are direct, clear answers. And quite a few of the questions currently on the waiting list are ones either already asked, or one fans could easily figure out on their own given the info already provided. We have the cast list for when most people were born, and their ages in certain years. It wouldn't hurt to take up a pencil and determine the age of a character in a certain year themselves if they wanted to know, rather than flooding the archive asking about it.
Or to spend an hour looking through the archive to see if the question they want to ask has already been answered…especially since it is going to take at least 6 months (a present) for Mr. Weisman to get to it anyway.

[So do yourself and everyone a favor...treat Ask Greg as you should be treating it or just simply drop it. But just remember whatever you do is by your choice alone. So grow up a bit, stop trying to be "funny" as you so often say when someone brings this up to you,]
He's not "trying" to be funny, he is *succeeding* at being funny.
You yourself said it- he is under no pressure to do anything for or related to "Gargoyles", and has not been for years. This entire site is for the fans, and I think we can all suffer being his entertainment now and again in return for the answers we do receive, and have a little respect for the secrets he wants to keep.

C. Sewell writes...

Dear Mr. Weisman,

After skimming through this site, then becoming completely absorbed, I felt a bit of gratitude was in order: I really enjoyed Gargoyles; thank you very much. It is rare to find an adventure cartoon that has a story that feels like some work and thought went into it. Cartoons don't seem to get (nor do they seem treated with) a great deal of respect, which always seemed strange to me considering how much power a story aimed at children can have (Especially just after school or on a saturday morning when the folks are still asleep; I remember Robotech and Dungeons and Dragons a lot more accurately than quite a few of my Jr.High School classes).

Cartoons and comics, along with their creators, seem to get an unfair amount of disregard, just because they are thought of as being a kid's stuff. I remember a blip in the L.A. Times (I think it was the Times? I can't think of any other paper I would have been reading with my toast) concerning Neil Gaiman. He was making an appearance at the Golden Apple comic book shop in Los Angeles. The person who wrote the blip said that a line formed around the block to meet this comic book author, and the writer added that he/she, "weeped for the future," since obviously so many people shouldn't be that enamoured with a mere comicbook.

This comment was hidden deep in the depths of the paper. Most people probably didn't even see it, and if they did probably didn't have any inkling who this Neil Gaiman person was. I understand that the fantasy genre isn't for everyone, but the remark seemed extremely unfair. Just because it is a comicbook (or cartoon) does that mean that the creator didn't put any consideration into creating it? It always seems that there are more unfavorable comments made then kind ones, especially concerning certain forms of creative expression. It isn't often that I have such an easy opportunity to thank someone for creating something worthwhile; especially in a genre that seems to get more abuse and disregard then praise. Gargoyles was a wonderful show. I'm sure there was a breakfast ceral connected with it and who knows how many toys, but Gargoyles was creative and inspired the imagination (along with giving a healthy dose of mythology and Shakespeare-the music was nice too), and it seems that type of cartoon doesn't come along often enough.

But what impressed me the most and convinced me that thanks were in order, is your willingness to treat your fans so kindly, and in such an engaging and open manner. I just stumbled upon this web-site and it completely sucked me in (so now it is way past my bedtime, but well worth it). I wasn't sucked in because of my need to know the mating habits of Gargoyles, but because the answers in the FAQ were interesting and eloquent, and extremely forgiving in regards to those companies that produced the show. I'm not sure if I could ever be so generous to those that obviously didn't value what they had. I'm sure you have heard all of this before, but I'm extremely impressed by both the creation and one of its creators, and just wanted to say, "Thank you."
Sincerely
C. Sewell

Disappointed writes...

Hi Greg, I just wanted to say I love the show. But I have a bit of a bone to pick with you...

It's about this whole "Ask Greg" thing. I love that we can come here and ask questions, but I don't love your answers. I don't think that you owe us anything, but you've got to realize that some of us come here with high hopes, and we love the show enough to ask you about it. You choose to do this, yet you shoot half of us down. I'm rather tired of looking through the archives and seeing a question I want answered, getting my hopes up, then having them dashed to pieces because you gave some smart ass answer. I much rather appreciate when you simply say "I don't know" or that "I'm not answering this now." Keep in mind that you choose to do this Ask Greg thing, no one is forcing you. And for the people that do pick at you and only ask things to make you look foolish or whatever, why waste your time on them? You could be answering other true fans' legitimate questions and not falling so damn far behind. Yes, I know I'm complaining, but if you honestly can't see my point of view I can't make you understand. I enjoy Ask Greg (or at least I am trying to) but it gets really hard when half the answers you give are callous and uncalled for. I suggest that if Ask Greg is a pain to you, that you simply quit. You're not doing much good anyway since you don't answer our questions. So do yourself and everyone a favor...treat Ask Greg as you should be treating it or just simply drop it. But just remember whatever you do is by your choice alone. So grow up a bit, stop trying to be "funny" as you so often say when someone brings this up to you, and take some responsibility. Now if you've read this all the way through, thank you. I appreciate your time, I know you are very busy. But just keep in mind what I said and take it in and consider it. Thank you.

icemann writes...

This isn`t a question. But I just thought I`d say that I for one am REALLY glad to hear that disney took notice of all the gatherings, and also of the future DVD releases. I`ll definately be grabbing all of those when they come out :)

Bridget writes...

I cant find garfoyles toys anywhere! do you know a place on line where one might purchase them. And thank you. I saw gargoyles when it first aired, it always stuck with me and I always try to watch it on toon disney. I'm 16 now and I just always wanted to thank someone who had a hand in makig incredible show!

Spacebabie writes...

Gathering Journal III
Woke up early again after barely any sleep. Took a shower and the bathroom floor flooded. My night gown got soaked.
My head was starting to hurt.
Went to breakfast with Mooncat. we were joined by Patrick and Kathy. Get this Patrick was not aware that Deidric Bader was the voice of Jason Canmore.
After Breakfast I bummed some tylenol off of someone. I'm sorry I forgot your name but thank you whoever you are.

We lounged on the sofas afterwords and I took a lil snooze.
Went on mad raid at the dealers buying a bunch of stuff: A picture for mom, cards, a Lex plushie and a dragon for me.
Chilled with Demona May and explained I wanted to buy one of her prints. We talked about the situation with my early flight with the con chair. She gave me a free clender.

Before number one I was able to purchase Demona May's print.
I was torn between the countdown and the Radio play, but when will I ever get a chance to see Gargoyles again? I don't have Toon Disney,((Yes I am aware of the irony that I live within a 20 minute drive from Disney World and I don't have Toon Disney)) and when the heck will I ever get to see Deadly Force? I had to absorb it all.

Changed a little before the banquet, had some tome to kill so I went to the snack room. Greg G was there talking about th Lilo and Stitch series that was working on.

Banquest started and I was seated with a group of Con Virgins.
The Food sucked, compared to the banquet in Orlando: Burgers, mac and cheese paste, and a hot dog. The only thing to drink there was water. Emily fetched a plate of lemon slice so we could make Lemonaid. Stood near Demona May to take pics of the Gregs.

As I changed into my costume I had trouble with the hosiery. The Pantys and belt was no problem. Mooncat laced up the corset in the back. I slipped into my shoes, did my hair,make up, shimmer and beads. Grabbed my puse and camera and shirt.
Luckily I did not come in contanct with any norms on my way to the elevator. When the doors opened everyone's jaws dropped and the guys drooled. I was a big hit. Everyone was taking pics, but really impressed me was everyone elses costume. Damn they were great. Aaron and Mara looked beautiful, and the crossdressers were a hoot. Lynati's was the best. Everyone was impressed with her feet. I had to touch the wings of those who had wings.

Well we were introduced and I shook my booty when I strut my stuff. After I went on I took some more pics. Then I had to get a pic of myself between the two Grgs, but the camera ATE it!!!! Well I gave beads away to the guys, only making a few flash.
Then I pulled on my shirt and sat amongst the others so we had our picture taken for Toon Disney and Disney Japan.

Followed Aaron and Greg B To Aaron and Maras room, we talked and I got registered for next year. Then I changed clothes. So I can breath and dance. Decided to finally draw something, but ended up dancing and Joining Greg W's discussion group until I was tired.

Bid fare well to Crzy before I went to pack and go to bed.

Next day Leo drove me to the Airport and I flew back home.

Great Weekened. Only had a few problems.
1. the headache.
2. I pulled a hamstring
3.The food
4.It didn't last long enough.

Next year I'll try to pace myself, and to bring a bottle of Tylenol.
Also try to convince my dad to come next year. He loved the show as well.

Mike R writes...

Hi Greg. I started watching Gargoyles on Toon Disney over my younger sisters shoulder a few weeks ago and haven't stopped since. Alas I've discovered that Toon Disney are only showing about half the total number of episodes, so there are probably gaping holes in my understanding of the overall theme (I get the impression there is one - correct me if I'm wrong;-).

First off, very well done. I'm very impressed. Not only are they extremely well written and animated, but there is subtlety of dialogue and expression! In a Disney Cartoon? Indeed.

Secondly: just finished City of Stone. Missed part of it the first time round. There's only one thing I can say... "Oi! The tragedy!" If Demona is not one of the most cathartic characters created in the last century I don't know who is! Despite her brutal treatment of Goliath it's hard not to empathise with her, or to enjoy her episodes perhaps more than the rest (is this unhealthy?;-). Macbeth is the perfect counterpoint, another very good character and equally engaging in his own way. However, I am frustrated. I glanced down an episode list and couldn't find anything further devoted to them. How does their story conclude? I must know!

Thirdly: somewhere I posted an e-mail to a Gargoyles site and the owner told me a film had been on the cards for the last five years, but with no apparent progress. Is anything known that you could tell? I did wonder if, when the reply mentioned it might be live action, whether this might change as a result of the successes of CGI films in recent years. I wonder which would best suit the genre - CGI or live action? With CGI the original voice cast could be used, of course.

Sorry for the long message, and thanks for indulging a new initiate.

The Cat writes...

Subject Make-A-Wish, Nov. 1999
Hey Greg.

Okay I this isn't exactically the best place to ask this but I'm not going to see you at The Gathering this year and by the time the next Gathering rolls around I'll probably have forgotten the question.

Anyway, my mother was telling me that _you_ asked her whether or not what was said about the road kill in Texas was true when we met ya'll back in November of 1999 through Make-A-Wish. However, I don't seem to remember you asking that. Then again my memory has gotten rather faulty lately.

What I want to know is were you the one that asked that or was it someone else?

Okay, another thing(more like a personal ramble on what was said that day) after we got finished taping the mock episode of Turf ya'll are all signing pictures and my script. Thom says something about his character Lexington and about Sheena Easton(I had no idea who she was then, but not long after that day I saw her on the Home Shopping Channel.)
Thom: Sheena Easton always said "The wee one is playing with his...weewee." I can't think of the word that she used though.(Something to that effect.)
Jeff(quickly supplies the word): Willyad!
All the while I'm thinking:'Tippickle men. Obsessed with that part of their anatomy! Well,I'm tired I'm not going to say anything. I just want to get to the hotel and fall into bed.' (That wasn't exactly what I was thinking, but there might be little kids out there that their parents do not wish them to know such things just yet.)

Anyhow, you get the idea. By the way in case you were wondering how I was capable of remembering that little chat between Jeff and Thom. It's because my mother accidently filmed it. If those two were a little more conservitive I might be tempted to use that darn tape as blackmail.

Well as they say down here, Adios Amigo. The Cat.
Hmm, curiousity is suppose to kill The Cat, I wonder how many of my nine lives I've wasted this time around.

Lord Sloth writes...

Just thought I'd join the bandwagon here since posting in these archives is pretty well the best way to give my writings immortality.

I got my mom to watch this with me earlier (it's getting easier to get her into a new episode each time) and she enjoyed immensely. I like just as much, it's a very "crisp" looking episode IMO, and the story in spaced out well to always keep me interested with new revelations.
- When it got to the part where Elisa disappears and we see Raven flying over head, mom mistakenly asked "she turned into a crow?", and I thought that somewhat interesting as that never occurred to me when I first saw it; did anyone else think that?
I think my favorite part of this episode is when Raven scares that hungry bear enough to charge toward Elisa, and then Bronx boldy tackles him. It's just a very tense and scary moment that looks beautiful.
-I like when Goliath runs up that fallen tree trunk in order to glide; don't ask me why, I just do.
- I just want to congratulate whoever it was who designed the Thunderbird; she looked incredible cool, both scary and majestic.
-I also really liked Raven in his Gargoyle guise, and I agree with Jim R., he really reminds me of someone else.
-His clan of Illusion looked sweet as well, but I was kind of relieved that they weren't real since their diversity would have been harder to accept then the London Clan. Leo looks a lot less like a lion then the wolf guy resembles wolf
- Sea Monster had a nice prehistoric look & I liked how she used the blowhole, but her forelegs seemed very scrawny for her to be a good swimmer, if they could keep her afloat. Perhaps she had very big paddle hind legs to supporter her, and perhaps I'm just nit picking and she doesn't have to look right cause she's being of magic.
-A bit more repetitiveness in how Rory Dugan will latter on be learning to accept his Heritage, but this doesn't bother me at all. Each episode was different enough that it's cool seeing their similarities. At least Nick wasn't some old relic of a Haida Shaman reborn.
- Incidentally, I didn't like Nick all that much. Didn't dislike him, but he did seem slightly typical in his rejection of tradition. A the same time, I'd really like to see more of him in the show, and think he'd make a great mach up for Beth, assuming he'd end up with Beth. Perhaps Diane will become a widow in the near future, but we all know, for the long term, he can't touch Elisa with a 30-foot pole.
- Just want to mention that I love the all Tricksters in "Gargoyles"; smart and subtle is the key. And I think Xanatos deserves to be declared an official trickster.
- I'm no volcano expert, but I didn't think a caldaria could be filled almost to the brim with magma, and not be in danger of causing disaster. I accepted this more in "Ill Met" since it was on a magic island, but does anyone know if a volcano can really do this. It's a good thing it can in the Gargoyles Universe, cause it would be pretty embarrassing to let the water flow, renewing the balance of nature at last, only to have the volcano overflow and destroy everything. And I'm assuming the caldaria would have changed a bit by 2198.
-I loved that last scene with Harry Water (not Potter), though it did kind shock me initially.

One more interesting thing is how Angela shouts "We've defeated the monster!" after their first battle with Grandmother. If this had aired after "Monsters" (as it does on my tape cause for some reason I wanted to put the two Scotland episodes together) she would probably have not made that face value judgment. Now I know someone will likely point out that the name of that creature was "Sea Monster", but I'm sure you know what I mean, so don't. Just anther fascinating evolution of a character in this incredible show; was that intentional Greg?

There's one book I have read about a year ago that has a lot to do with the mythological stuff in this episode. It's got raven, and the thunderbird (though they don't make any personal appearances, it does go into Raven's origins and how he became such a pest) but it mainly concerns this fear/soul-devouring demon named Sisiutl; and the one of the main characters in a native called Grandfather interestingly enough. It's called "Dreamspeaker", it's by Cam Hubert and I recommend it to you all most enthusiastically. It won't even take you long, it's just 121 pages (though I'm sure you will wish there was more by the time you finish. After we finished watching Heritage, mother took out the book "Daughters of Copper woman" by Anne Cameron, which seems to go quite in depth into the legends of the Natives of B.C., and I hope to look into it more. Once again that dratted show has got me interested in another of the world's culture, and now I'm wasting my time researching it rather then watching TV. Hey, I wonder if that's what Disney finds so threatening about "Gargoyles". <HMRPH>

I'll just add a footnote that will probably please you. Ever since I started spending a lot of time at ASK GREG, my interest in writing stuff has increased tenfold. I'm creating essays about gargoyles as well as my own short stories and I feel that I owe it to you for creating this topic in the first place. Now I only need to learn to make English assignments interesting, and thus do more of them, but I've passed High School now so I'm happy.

That was a bit lengthy.

Zarok writes...

HERITAGE
Here goes my very first episode ramble don't know why it took me so long (I had a "shadows of the past" ramble but my computer seems to have eaten it). So we come to the second episode in the world tour, I am a full world tour supporter Greg I think it served a vital role in broadening the scope of the gargoyles universe. This episode really sets out to explore the whole "all things are true" issue. I think the introduction of Oberon's children was instrumental in that goal. I really like the way you went about that, first you established the fay as a race via Puck, set down the ground rules, creatures of pure magic, shape shifters, vulnerable to iron, no messing with mortal lives. And here in the world tour you establish that many of the supernatural beings in world mythology were in fact children of Oberon. This lets you bring in Odin, Anansi, the Banshee and so on without fussing over backstory and the like but back to today's episode. This episode starts off nicely I think, Goliath's rowing along and Elias craving a hot dog all nice and serene the BOOM the sea monster bursts out of the water and starts mixing it up with the gargs. It's kind of odd actually in retrospect causes grandmother would probably not have attacked the travellers. Then again, they defeat her rather easily, too easily. The whole totem pole thing made for a nice bit of red herring. Raven does a good job of duping Goliath by using one of the most fiendish kinds of lies, ones that are as close to the truth as possible. Even closer than raven realises as a gargoyle clan will actually make its home in that very crater, they'll be abducted by aliens a few minuets after they hatch but its still their home. I never thought grandmother was a bad guy, she just oozes niceness all over the place, the thunderbird is impressive, very majestic. Raven cleverly gets around the non-interference edict by sending that bear after Elisa (as I'm writing this you still haven't answered my question regarding weather the edict applies to animals). Natsilane's personal journey here is well played as he comes to terms with the fact that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in his philosophy. Actually while we are on the subject I really am not too crazy about that Quote don't get me wrong it's a great quote its just that its so overused in soaps, sitcoms, advertising, hell even Lex Luther uses it, Kinda like the whole Yorick thing. The final battle in the volcano is very cool I especially liked the wooden totem beasts. Just curious are Natsilane's weapons made of iron or are they magical or what? Anyway thanks for another great episode. Till next time.

Blaise writes...

HERITAGE

I don't think I expected "our heroes" to get home after just one stop, so it didn't surprise me that they ended up someplace else first. Of course, even I didn't expect them to be traveling for as long as they were....
Anyway, I love the way Angela is sitting in the skiff when she notices the sea monster. It's a small thing, barely on screen for a second, and I probably only notice it because I think she looks quite alluring there, but it's something that strikes me everytime I watch this episode.
The sea monster has an excellent design, very unique, and the ensuing battle has some real nice moments, such as when Angela appears to be riding a wave into battle.
Of course, the sea monster appears to damage the skiff during the battle, and in the next scene a hole can be seen in the upper side of the skiff (not in a "sinkble" area, per se). So, how'd it get fixed? Well, Grandmother may have "healed" the skiff as she healed the island, or the skiff may have just fixed itself (hey, it can sink itself, as we'll see with Arthur later on).
I knew something was up with that raven when it seemed to appear out of nowhere, and then landed on top of the totem pole.
Actually, during my first viewing, I had been wondering when the subject of totem poles would be addressed. From what I had heard (and that was little) they could have fit into a "inspired by gargoyles" category, and I was quite happy they showed up. I don't remember my reaction to the revelation that they didn't actually have any gargoyle connection, but thinking about it now, I'm rather glad you guys went with them being what they are in the real world, Greg. Sometimes a spade is a spade.
Natsilane/Nick fills a fairly stereotypical role, to be sure, but he is acted well, and given some nice lines and facial expressions. I also liked Grandmother, and had always wondered if she was a figure from North American myth and legend as well. Good to know that she is.
I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but I had thought Queen Florence island might actually be a real place until I read your ramble, Greg. You can tell I haven't spent much time in Canada (aside from the area around Niagra Falls).
Ah, Raven as a gargoyle. It's an excellent design, I love his red eyes and the pattern of feathers over his chest. However, there are some...glitches in his gargoyle design. The fact that he has no tail, five fingers instead of four, and even his eye color differentiate him from the "normal" gargoyle design. More, in my eyes, than his having a bird's head. I'm not nitpicking the character designers, though--and for all I know, there are gargoyles out there with similar abberations (just look at Sora's two-toed feet in BUSHIDO)--I actually think those oddities are neat. They might even be considered hints that this fellow isn't exactly what he appears to be. He also has a nice entrance: assuming the form and place of the top totem pole creature he had landed on in the morning. Anyway, I kind of figured that this was the "Raven" that Grandmother had spoken about in the previous scene. When he referred to Grandmother as an "evil sorceress" I thought that maybe this was a POV problem. Two different sides with half-true gripes fighting each other. I couldn't buy for a minute that Grandmother was evil, but I wouldn't be surprised if she were a sorceress, and Raven spoke a story that seemed to resonate with how gargoyles were treated. I thought maybe bringing peace was the ultimate goal. Of course, things turned out differently.
RE: "Elisa as sexy when feverish and vulnerable." Are you sure that's not just because she's probably topless (at least) underneath that blanket? ;D
Raven leads our gargoyle heroes to the caldera of the volcano, and introduces them to his clan. I liked their designs as well--especially the wolf and eagle ones. But I found it extremely odd that they did not come out or say anything (WARNING lights began going off in my brain there, I think). Still, I did like Goliath's initial joy over the thought of finding gargoyles living in other parts of the world.
Grandmother uses Haida (is that spelled right?) medicinal techniques to cure Elisa's fever, but I wouldn't be surprised if she used just a little magic to put Elisa to sleep (I thought I heard a "magic-like" sound effect or something). And yes, I think the "...and roots" line and Natsilane's silent reaction to it are funny. Actually, my brother has caught this episode a few times, and always gets frustrated that Natsilane doesn't believe that "roots" and such can cure a fever. As far as he's concerned *all* medicine came from plants and the like. Well, I guess my brother's not too far off the mark--I know at least aspirin comes from a plant.
Our heroes start to search for each other. Raven's "disappearing clan" was a nice little confirmation for me that this guy was not what he claimed to be.
Goliath's little phrase "Humans fear what they do not understand. And what they fear, they often seek to destroy." It's a nice, truthful little phrase. Maybe that's why it has been used in so many other places (DARKSWORD book one, for example). The funny thing is, Goliath has been telling Angela truths all along that play right into Raven's lies. Sheesh, no wonder Goliath wants to rip the Trickster a new one when he learns the truth. I'd be pissed, too.
Finding the wallet was a nice touch. Another, earlier one, was Elisa wondering if totem poles were connected with gargoyles. Grandmother knows exactly what Elisa was talking about. Like I said, nice.
Bears by themselves are scary enough, but a Trickster influenced bear? I didn't envy Elisa. Of course, Bronx takes Yogi out with little problem (and manages to have a cute moment directly afterward).
Fun line from Elisa: "Are Goliath and Angela OK? Heh, right, like you're going to answer."
I think I may have jumped out of my seat and applauded when Goliath and Elisa hugged. It was so unexpected, yet perfectly natural between them (and long overdue I thought--besides which, by this time I had concluded that G & E would kiss SOMETIME during this season, and while this was not quite that, I found it pretty close).
The characters compare notes and go off to find Grandmother, who transforms into the Thunderbird at the (music-less) cliff-hanger. By this time, I was thouroughly confused as to what was going on and went to my old standby attitude--ride the storm out and see what happens.
One of my favorite bits during the ensuing battle: Angela lands on the Thunderbird, and the chest-face wraps its tounge around her leg and throws her off. The look on Angela's face is great. Then of course there's the bit where the Thunderbird's wings pass through Raven's illusions. By now, I already knew he was the bad guy, and applauded Angela's trying to dupe him. Of course, he shows up later so it's doubtful she was successful, but it's nice that she makes an attempt.
Finally, the truth is revealed. Grandmother and Raven are kinsmen of Puck (at least figuratively) and Raven shows his other preferred form. I like how the design on his shirt is evocative of his feather pattern in gargoyle form. Another thing I liked in this scene was Grandmother's quiet joy that gargoyles still live (if they don't thrive). She's a very benevolent Oberati.
Elisa shows the gargoyles to Natsilane, quoting Shakespeare for good measure, to induce him to take up the fight. I love Angela's jump to right in front of Natsilane with the shield and weapon. I also love Nick's line: "Wait! You're asking me to fight a creature of legend...with a stick. Get real." Funny, and indicative of his world view at the same time.
Natsilane's sudden appearance at the caldera always threw me. I try to rationalize it, as usual. When he takes up the cause and armements, his clothes are magically changed and he is transported to the volcano top. At any rate, Bronx, Elisa and Grandmother arrive a bit later than Nick.
I love how Raven gives his chant here: "Totem beasts entrapped in wood, the time has come to...do some good." I guess he's not much of one for rhyming.
It's a nice battle, though nothing particularly of note except for Goliath's playing possum, and Natsilane mastering the use of his weapons.
I like Raven's last two lines in this ep and the way his voice actor (and I am kicking myself for not remembering his name) delivered them. "Your people have fled!" Nicely defiant. And "This place no longer amuses me," along with his laugh (I LOVE that laugh). Now that you mention it, Greg, it would have been a bit better for him to fly off in raven form, but the gargoyle form works alright.
And then Grandmother heals the island. I liked her hair becoming the water.
A word on the repetition (sp?): Yeah, I noticed that, too. It's a bit of an annoyance, but there are little differences. In this episode the sea monster wasn't the focus, the companions were reunited well before the end of the adventure, and Natsilane is younger than Peter Maza, chose to live where he grew up, and doesn't have the "estranged father" element that Peter had. It's not much, but the little details help prevent this from becoming too tired.
HERITAGE is mostly an average episode for me (nothing that particularly grabs me, but a nice watch), and I think it says something that even an average episode compels me to write *this much* about it.

Todd Jensen writes...

My ramble on "Heritage".

Truth to tell, I no longer recall my initial responses from when I first saw this episode (I particularly don't remember how long I expected the Avalon World Tour to last, or what my initial responses to Raven and Grandmother were), so I'll have to simply give my overall thoughts on it.

First off, I'll admit that the "legendary background" in this one was something that I was less familiar with than the use of actual myths and legends in earlier episodes of "Gargoyles". This does appear (as best as I can tell, at present) to be the first time that "Gargoyles" uses legends from a non-Western culture; up till then, the mythical background was that of the Western world (mostly the British Isles), with Macbeth, King Arthur, Puck, Avalon, etc. Here the legends were those of the Haida people, which I hadn't read as much about. I had some general knowledge of Raven, the Thunderbird, and totem poles, but that was about it. However, I did still quite like this episode.

Grandmother and Raven's introduction as specifically Children of Oberon, of course, makes it clear that Oberon's Children are worldwide, not confined to just one mythology, which was a good touch. (I noticed the pointy ears on both Grandmother and Raven in his human form, of course - one of the best-known ways of identifying someone as a mythical being). I also thought that Grandmother and Raven worked well in their respective roles - Raven, especially, who (as a trickster) got some of the best lines. (As generally is the case with tricksters). Such as "Oh, well, better make sure it's an uneven fight" or, in his big "sour grapes" moment, "This place no longer amuses me."

I agree with you about Natsilane's facial expression after Grandmother's roots line being priceless; it's one of the big LOL moments in "Gargoyles" for me. (Another one is coming up in "Kingdom", in fact - but I'll mention that one when we get to that, which'll clearly be soon).

Of course, since you released your "Gargoyles 2198" overview, we now know what some of your future plans for the events in this episode were. I still find it interesting that Queen Florence Island would indeed wind up being the home of a new gargoyle clan, converting Raven's lie into the truth (in a way). I wonder if anybody in 2188 was conscious of that (all of the original participants in that episode - except for Grandmother and Raven, of course - would obviously be long since gone, but their descendants - and we do know that both the Manhattan clan and Natsilane have descendants around in 2198 - might have preserved the story of that event).

I also like the exchange between Goliath and Angela over Raven's story, including Goliath's comments about how humans fear and hate gargoyles in spite of the fact that gargoyles protect them (and why), and yet how gargoyles still have the duty to look after their protectorate (something that he certainly lives up to himself, in his refusal to abandon Manhattan even when it becomes difficult for gargoyles to live safely in). So even an episode where the "new gargoyles" turn out to be impostors tells us more about gargoyles, which is quite a nice touch.

By the way, I did some general research on the legendary figures in this episode, and found out that the Thunderbird appears in some legends as a "benevolent teacher-figure", which does fit in quite nicely with it being one of the creatures that Grandmother shape-shifts into.

I also agree that it's a lovely moment when Goliath and Elisa hug just after the bear gets driven off (I also get a kick out of the scene where Bronx sticks his head out of the bush after driving the bear away).

Karissa writes...

Im your biggest fan of garoyles i watched every show sicne it came out till now i know everything about the gargoyles please make another show of gargoyles and let me join the clan i would be horoned if you would thank you for taking your time to read this

Entity writes...

I'd just like to say that the Magus' death is, I think, the strongest moment in GARGOYLES. The Magus is loved by every fan, and it's because of all the humanity you were able to instill in him in about five minutes of screen time. His tragic love for Katherine coupled with his guilt which almost seems biblical by this point in the series, and the enchanting setting of Avalon, all make the Magus into... I don't even know! Just recalling his final moments brings tears to my eyes. That trembling finger. And his reaction to Goliath's thanks is heart-swelling. He simply doesn't comprehend how Goliath could be thankful to him and it's too much. Good job.

Blaise writes...

SHADOWS OF THE PAST

And so the World Tour truly begins.
Right off I'll say I agree that the numerous reruns did little to help the appeal of the "long absence from home." This might have been allieviated a litte if KINGDOM had been able to air when it was intended (it didn't, at least not on my stations, and prolonged the absence of the Trio and Hudson). I also think that AVALON PART THREE might have been a good "chapter break" (for lack of a better term) for reruns until the majority of the WT eps were finished. But then, I'm just a struggling actor, what do I know?
At any rate, I felt it fitting that Wyvern should be the first stop. Visiting the place where everything started, and bringing some closure (at least for Goliath) to an immense part of the clan's history. I love how he says, "It's home! My home." In terms of both dialogue and acting, it's very well done.
I also instantly liked Angela's mention of the weather in Avalon. A very nice bit of fleshing out (both for character and universe) that felt completely natural.
I'll say right now that I love the animation here, too. Granted, about half-way through the first act Angela's eyes seem to change size/shape and it drives me a little nuts, but overall it's just fantastic. I'm glad you and Frank stuck to you guys' guns, Greg, and made sure things like the cliffside and Elisa's wardrobe remained consistant. Shows the dedication.
I always noticed the awkward (sp?) moment between Elisa and Angela when Goliath instantly starts climbing the cliff. I don't think Elisa had been expecting this, but I believe she understands.
Goliath's description of all his old haunts--the Rookery (I just love the line "I was hatched here" for some reason), the caves--are just so wonderful. Detailed and told with the weight of one visiting a past lifetime almost.
Hakon's axe: I was always torn between seeing it as the same one as in VENDETTAS, because that's just what GARGOYLES would do, and a different one because it only had one blade. I suppose the "eldritch, spectral energy" of Hakon may have reformed it, though. But yeah, a mace (THE mace, in fact) would have been just ripping. Practical and symbolic at the same time, with so much emotional resonance.
But on with the show. I liked how Goliath admits he still wanted revenge. Very in character, and realistic. It sounds like he's admitting it as much to himself as to Angela and Elisa. I wonder if that (coupled with hearing her voice) made Goliath think a little about what Demona had become. Or I might be going overboard here. Don't hesitate to say so.
The "old wounds" line--yeah, that's another one I liked right off as well.
Then Goliath sees Hakon and the Captain (or thinks he does) and instantly attacks. I'm not sure if, during my initial viewing, I thought Goliath was going insane. I think I picked up that Bronx was sensing something and so was prepared for something more supernatural. Or maybe not--like I said, I can't remember. Still, I think Goliath may have gone a *little* insane when he instantly attacked Elisa/Hakon and Angela/Captain without wondering how those two got there. Just shows that even the strongest rock can crack given enough pressure in just the right areas.
The glowing...blobs, floating in the air. Yeah, by that time I think I pretty much knew what was going on, a suspicion that was confirmed when Desdemona, Demona and Othello turned into Hakon and the Captain when Goliath wasn't looking their way.
Keith did a lot of good line readings for Goliath when he begins to doubt his sanity, but one of my favorites is "I can't trust what I see!" The pain and frustration conveyed by Mr. David is wonderful there.
I love it when Hakon's ghost comes flying right at the camera (Goliath's POV) with glowing eyes and mouth while Clancy Brown gives that great, gurggling-sort of yell. That was pretty cool/creepy.
I always wince when Bronx bites G in the arm to keep him from falling. Very painful, but you have to admire the pooch's determination. As well as Elisa's when she decides to climb down after her falling (more than) friend. I always liked the contrast between Angela's shocked reaction and Elisa's strong decision.
Goliath's fall is well done, and I'm glad it took him two tries to really stop himself.
The Captain always does seem to be the dissenting opinion against Hakon. Even before the Captain demands an end to Goliath's torture, he gives Goliath the credit of suspecting their plan. Maybe, deep down in the bottom of his...ectoplasym, the Captain was hoping Goliath would escape.
The rock zombies. :) Yes, their final "death" was cool and creepy, with their disintegration, but their original integration, with the pieces seeming to literally fall upward into place was also pretty neat in my book. Their sounds were good, too, with some of those weird high pitched roars and the double voices (were those both Ed Gilbert and Clancy Brown?). I also liked the look of "Hakon's Gargoyle" with the large nose.
Then they bring "Demona" out and everything (literally) goes to pieces. I loved the hand turning into a mace, BTW. Very cool.
The energy transfer. Maybe the fact that the Captian seemed rather gloating when he described to Goliath what would happen made his chage of heart seem to come out of left field. At any rate, I'm glad that when it came to getting what he thought he wanted, the Captain realized it wasn't really. As for Hakon, he's a jerk but the utter joy in his voice at being able to feel again is rather disarming. If he weren't a bad guy he'd be almost sympathetic. With Goliath, I like how he chooses to win this fight, not by taking out Hakon but by reasoning with the Captain (even when the process begins, his first impluse is to remind the Captain who had wronged whom). And even if the Captain's decision to attack Hakon seemed a bit sudden, it frankly made more sense to me. Hell, it was the only right way! The Captain was woefully misguided yes, but he wasn't the evil that was Hakon.
"LINES of power!" That's what Hakon was saying! I finally get it now.
The megalith dance was pretty cool all around (concept and execution), but, frankly, it almost gets overshadowed by the character interaction going on around/inside it.
Then, after the destruction, Goliath again describes the Captian as a friend (and again, Mr. David puts great emotion into that line). And then we see the Captain appear one final time. And yes...my first thought was that he looks younger than before. Maybe just less care-worn. At any rate, he has a truly heavenly type of exit. Beautiful.
I like how Goliath answers the question of what happened to Hakon. "He has made his fate, Angela, whatever it might be." I just love that line, and have seen how it could be applied to all sorts of people and incidents. And it just seems right that Goliath would say something like that.
And then we see Hakon. I don't know if I would have preferred seeing Hakon stay there. I suppose I knew, deep down, that a bad guy like him can't stay locked away forever. However, I must say that, IMHO, there's something inherently scary about complete stagnation. Even though we don't know where he finally went to after VENDETTAS, he at least moved on. To be trapped (inside a rock of all places) in complete solitude...with no guarantee of "moving on" before the "end of creation" seems to me to be a singularly scary prospect. Still, it's nice contrasting the spectral Captain's final passing here with Hakon's later on.
For me, this was an excellent start to the World Tour.

Todd Jensen writes...

Here's my ramble on "Shadows of the Past".

First off, of course, this is where the Avalon World Tour begins (if you don't count the "Avalon" triptych), which makes it a biggie. I agree with you that the reruns in between the three instalments of it (which aired, as I recall, in November-December 1995, February 1996, and May 1996 - more or less) make the World Tour seem longer than it really was. (Incidentally, you're right that you were able to bring out more than 18 episodes of "Gargoyles" in the September-December period; I remembered that the "fall run" ended with "Grief", and so worked out that it was 30 new episodes during that period).

As I mentioned before, I enjoyed the Avalon World Tour, and agree with you that something like that was necessary for the series at some point (especially in bringing in enough other gargoyles to make it feasible for the species to survive and recover - as I've mentioned here before, something along the lines of the World Tour was probably the only realistic way for Goliath to discover that there were gargoyles left in other parts of the world, given that he couldn't simply hop on board the next flight from New York to London or Japan).

Angela's correct (from the original legends perspective) about it always being summer on Avalon; in fact, I remember that the old Welsh legends about Avalon (or, more accurately, its "literary predecessors") called it the Summer Country or the Region of the Summer Stars.

In hindsight from "Vendettas", I picked up on the significance of that axe that Goliath unearths - and agree with you now that Hakon's mace from the Wyvern Massacre would indeed have worked better. Too late for that now, though.

I also liked that line (which I considered very poetic) of Elisa's about "old wounds".

The Captain and Hakon's tormenting of Goliath was very effective - probably the creepiest part, in my opinion, was when Angela and Elisa appear in Goliath's eyes to be the Captain and Hakon - but then we hear Angela and Elisa's voices coming from the Captain and Hakon's mouths.

The Captain of the Guard's change of heart worked for me (again, I especially liked the bit that you mentioned where he's looking troubledly at his hands as he and Hakon solidify). In fact, it made sense in view of his role in "Awakening" - he'd never wanted the clan massacred, and was horrified as to how that had gone wrong. I might add that Hakon showed, again, just how creepy he is when he gets into the fight with Goliath and begins laughing as his fists pass through Goliath - the reason for that being now, not that Hakon's insubstantial and Goliath solid, but the other way around.

Incidentally, the Captain actually appears better-looking in the scene where he's giving Goliath his thanks, just before he ascends.

And I'll confess that I'm one of those who would have preferred Hakon to have remained trapped in the cave for all time - I felt, when "Vendettas" aired, that it destroyed some of the effectiveness, in retrospect, of Hakon's sentence: trapped alone for eternity, with nobody at hand for him to hate. (Also, "Vendettas" felt anticlimactic on the Hakon front; in "Shadows of the Past", he battles Goliath by skillfully undermining him with a lot of psychological subtlety; in "Vendettas", he's reduced to simply fighting him in a slugfest with a big dumb werewolf - though don't tell Wolf that I called him that. :) ). But I do think that you made a good point about how, ultimately, Hakon would have to be given more permanent resolution than just that.

Incidentally, your treatment of the megalith that the Captain and Hakon were using, and your comments on it, make me wonder now how you would have handled Stonehenge if you'd ever gotten to do an episode involving it (especially since you mentioned having had plans to send King Arthur and Griff there during their quest for Merlin) - a pity that we may never know the answer to that now.

Petronius the Younger writes...

Hi, I have really enjoyed your ramblings, even though I haven't posted any of mine until now. Your "That's my ramble, where's yours?" line finally brought me to write one. :)

Avalon

After City of Stone, I was really looking forward to another multi-parter. It's quite amazing to me that with all the expectations, they never fail to deliver, even now.

Seeing Tom as the Guardian was quite a surprise. You almost never see characters age in cartoons. Seeing Tom go from the chubby cheeked little kid to an old man is quite a shock.

The middle age parts were excellent, as always. The transition from Wyvern to Edinburgh was very natural. It must have been the 4th or 5th time that the scenes right after the massacre. It's interesting to see it from different character's perspective each time.

The ending though was kind of a downer. I didn't like the fight between the characters too much, too cliched I thought. It seems strange that so much focus was put on Arthur, and then when he is awaken, he is just another foot soldier who fights Macbeth. Obviously Macbeth is a formidable character, but I was expecting something a bit more out of King Arthur, like taking on the archmage. Then that leaves Goliath who has to pull the eye of odin out of the archmage, which was kind of a bummer from all the focus on Archmage's powers.

The magus's death scene was really touching, one of the top moments in the show. I too wondered if he was really dead, but I figured that it was a way to leave it up in the air so as to leave for some creative wiggle room. I was very happy to read what you wrote on that subject. It put that subject to rest and was how I thought should be. Thanks.

Todd Jensen writes...

"Avalon Part Three" ramble.

I really liked this episode as well, especially with King Arthur being brought in. (And in my case, I was familiar with the "Pendragon" part of his name long before "Gargoyles" came out, and was both pleased and impressed that it was incorporated into the episode).

I may be biased (being a King Arthur fan), but I do look upon Elisa's awakening of King Arthur as one of the grand moments of her career; she actually restores to the world one of the most famous legendary heroes of all time. (One other note that occurs to me; Elisa isn't of British ancestry, which does fit in with your intention that Arthur's new destiny, after leaving Avalon, would ultimately lie outside Britain, and upon a larger stage).

The Magus might be old, but he was clearly still tough; Elisa had trouble keeping up with him all the way to the Hollow Hill.

I very much enjoyed the Magus's character development here, including his guilt over his hasty curse a thousand years before, his shouldering the responsibility for it without complaint or excuses, and his unrequited love for Princess Katharine. He really did become a sympathetic figure here.

(Incidentally, in light of your original idea of having him accompany Arthur - the Magus really does look much like the way that Merlin is often conventionally depicted in Arthurian art - except that his beard's shorter than Merlin's beard in the conventional representations of him. And, for that matter, although he doesn't leave with Arthur in the actual story, he's laid to rest on Arthur's sleeping place at the end).

I'm probably one of the extremely few "Gargoyles" fans who *didn't* think that that flashback scene with the hatchlings was taking place in the daytime. I always viewed it as being at night (it looked dark enough to me, in fact). I'd always assumed that the fans who thought that it was daytime were mentally merging it with the daytime flashback scenes where the hatchlings aren't present.

I liked the battle scene, including the choice of pairings, which struck me as appropriate ones (particularly Arthur versus Macbeth), and also the bit where the Archmage and Goliath are teleporting all about with the Phoenix Gate. (One possible nit here, though, is Princess Katharine being able to pick up so quickly on how to operate a laser cannon, given that back when she lived in the outside world, they were using bows and arrows and hadn't dreamed up even conventional fire-arms. But I think that the scene where she defeats Demona with it makes up for that nit).

The Magus's death: I agree that it's a tragic and moving moment. On the other hand, I've long felt that the fact that Goliath is able to forgive the Magus before he dies, and show him that what he'll be remembering him for is raising the hatchlings rather than cursing the clan, makes a good consolation for the old man.

I was excited to see Arthur also leaving Avalon, and hoped that we'd see more of his adventures in the series (and was right, even though it was just one episode and that spin-off never got made).

And I don't quite know what I was expecting when Tom called out at the end that "Avalon sends you where you need to me", but I enjoyed the Avalon World Tour when it came.

And thanks for the latest ramble, Greg.